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--></style></div><div>The conversion to ball bearings sdeems very interesting. What size of ball bearings can be used? Doesn't it weaken the part on wich the countergears are mounted too much?</div><div>Marcel</div><div><br></div><hr id="zwchr" data-marker="__DIVIDER__"><div data-marker="__HEADERS__"><b>Van: </b>"fot" <fot@autox.team.net><br><b>Aan: </b>"Geoff Byrne" <gkbyrne@optusnet.com.au>, "fot" <fot@autox.team.net><br><b>Verzonden: </b>Woensdag 19 juni 2019 23:53:37<br><b>Onderwerp: </b>Re: [Fot] TR4 transmission<br></div><div><br></div><div data-marker="__QUOTED_TEXT__">
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">I started converting our race boxes to taper rollers on the layshaft almost 30 years ago. Totally agree with Geoff that the replacement syncro rings are generally very poor, but as yet, have not
found the need or $ to convert to a dog box, nice as that might be. I luckily still have a small stash of original Leyland ST close ratio gears but as they dry up, will be forced into “plan B”</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Terry </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Another down under racer</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US"> Fot <fot-bounces@autox.team.net>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Geoff Byrne via Fot<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 19 June 2019 21:14<br>
<b>To:</b> van.mulders.marcel@telenet.be<br>
<b>Cc:</b> fot <fot@autox.team.net><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Fot] TR4 transmission</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">I’ve been racing my tr6 for over 15 years and gave up,on the synchro box due to the inability to get good quality rings. Swapped to a quaiffe dog box and ended up buying another one from Vessey and a third from bustuck . Having experienced
several counter shaft needle bearing failures which can be very costly I have developed a box with ball bearings on a fixed lay shaft. Does involved a bit of machining but as I have my own machine shop and the time it not a problem for me. After four years
of solid racing the ball bearing are still perfect. Not for everyone but bullet proof.</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">If anyone is interested in details email me</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Regards </p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Geoff Byrne TR6 racer down under</p>
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On 19 Jun 2019, at 6:14 am, van.mulders.marcel--- via Fot <<a href="mailto:fot@autox.team.net" target="_blank">fot@autox.team.net</a>> wrote:</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black">Bastuck announced a new batch of dog box gear sets that should have been available from february 2019 onwards. It took longer, but these sets are available now.</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black">Marcel.</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black">Van:
</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black">"fot" <<a href="mailto:fot@autox.team.net" target="_blank">fot@autox.team.net</a>><br>
<b>Aan: </b>"Tony Drews" <<a href="mailto:tony@tonydrews.com" target="_blank">tony@tonydrews.com</a>><br>
<b>Cc: </b>"fot" <<a href="mailto:fot@autox.team.net" target="_blank">fot@autox.team.net</a>><br>
<b>Verzonden: </b>Dinsdag 18 juni 2019 18:54:23<br>
<b>Onderwerp: </b>Re: [Fot] TR4 transmission</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black"> </span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black">I would add that you can buy individual parts for the quaife should you wear out a hub or chip a tooth . Each component has laser engraved part numbers .
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black">T</span></p>
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On Jun 18, 2019, at 9:20 AM, Tony Drews via Fot <<a href="mailto:fot@autox.team.net" target="_blank">fot@autox.team.net</a>> wrote:</span></p>
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<p><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black">Nice summary! I don't have much to add other than the Quaife gearset uses substantial needle bearings inside each of the gears, much larger input to mainshaft needle bearing, steel
thrust washers within the stack. Work of art. Layshaft still uses semi-stock bearings.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black">When I blew up my tranny I ended up going with the Quaife and really like it. No synchros to break, shifts are lightning quick, gear ratios work well.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black">Cheers, Tony Drews</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black">On 6/18/2019 9:24 AM, Robert Lang via Fot wrote:</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black">Hi,</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black">Those are THE questions, aren't they?</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black">Okay - Quaife has a straight-cut gear set that uses dog-rings, no synchros. Big $$$, 1600 UK pounds. Quaife just ran off a set and the one source that I know
of in the UK can get them:</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black"><a href="http://www.vessey-classic-car-services.co.uk/triumph-gear-kit.htm#.XQjuu3t7n64" target="_blank">Dennis Vessey - Quaife gear kits for Triumph TRs</a></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Segoe UI",sans-serif;color:windowtext">Dennis Vessey - Quaife gear kits for Triumph TRs</span></h2>
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<span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Segoe UI",sans-serif;color:#979BA7">metatags generator</span></p>
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<span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Segoe UI",sans-serif;color:#979BA7">Vesseys Triumph TR Dog-Engagement Gear Kit - developed with Quaife</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black">Note, if you decide to go that route, please contact me, I've been in contact with the vendor and I'm trying to place an order for this gearset. Maybe we can
save some shipping if we get a couple of sets.</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black">Note too that Bastuck has dog box gear sets including one using the J-type overdrive. When I contacted them last fall, they had none in stock and there was no
production scheduled.</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black">Failing that option, there's the "Dolomite Close Ratio Gearset". This consists of a different input shaft and main 3rd gear along with the corresponding layshaft
gears. You need to work the case to get these to pit, but they work great. These are helical gears. I've used this setup for around 20 years, and it is really really good. Note: for the best total gear ratio option, get a later TR6 gearbox with the 16-tooth
1st laygear.</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black">Now, the drawback to the helical gears is apparently excessive thrust forces and they effect the layshaft thrust washers as well as the layshaft needle bearings.
If you make torque and you have any end float for the layshaft, you will spin the thrust washers and wreck the case. There are some workarounds to compensate for excessive end float.</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black">Note too that because of torque multiplication, the layshaft needle bearings on the 1st gear end of the layshaft get beat really, really hard. One fix is to install
a double bearing on the layshaft (or buy a new one from Moss or another source) that is set up for the double bearing. I've had Quantum Mechanics install the double bearings, they seem to work better than the stock setup. But even with that setup, the layshaft
still gets pounded and you need to keep an eye on it.</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black">As you may know, a lot of the racers are gravitating away from the stock and/or modified Triumph gearboxes mostly because the quality consistency of replacement
parts is all over the place and you need to know what you're getting to spot the differences. That said, frequent oil changes and paying attention to the detritus in the oil, you can stay ahead of problems.</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black">If you're going to build a good gearbox, it will cost you as much or more than some of the conversions out there, hence a lot of folks switch to Toyota/T5/Rocket,
etc.</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black">Hopefully you'll get other good advice on this list, but that's where I'm at right now (too). The Quaife gearset in the TR gearbox seems like the most "vintage"
solution, but ALL of the options have pluses and minuses. In the spirit of full transparency, I'm also looking at Super T10 transmissions which are the same as the old Muncie "Rock Crusher" and there is a gearset available with a 2.43 1st, 1.63 2nd, 1.23 3rd
and 1 4th which is pretty close to the Dolomite Sprint setup. And the gearbox is 70 pounds which is really close to the stock box. Also, if you want to dish out more $$$, Gear Vendors has an overdrive that bolts to the T-10, I haven't researched that enough
to see if there are any particulars, but it is an option, albeit around $3k. But you get a BRAND NEW overdrive. Just sayin. A drawback to the Super T10 is that you will need to make or source a bell housing, but that is do-able with a combo of a trashed TR
gearbox, a competent machinist and more $$$. ;-)</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black">Regards,</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black">Bob Lang</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black">339-927-4489</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A">On Tuesday, June 18, 2019, 9:02:31 AM EDT, Mike Deweerd via Fot
<a href="mailto:fot@autox.team.net" target="_blank"><fot@autox.team.net></a> wrote:
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A">Amici
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A">What is the preferred gearbox for the TR4 non overdrive and where is the best source for getting such</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A">I’m looking at the pros and cons of the straight cut gear set vs the close ratio gear set (I’m assuming the close ratio is still helical gears)
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A">Please chime in with preferences and opinions
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A">Cheers
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A">Mike Deweerd #77</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A">Sent from my iPhone</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A">_______________________________________________</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A"><a href="mailto:fot@autox.team.net" target="_blank">fot@autox.team.net</a></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A"><a href="http://www.fot-racing.com" target="_blank">http://www.fot-racing.com</a></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A">Donate:
<a href="http://www.team.net/donate.html" target="_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A">Archive:
<a href="http://autox.team.net/archive%20" target="_blank">http://autox.team.net/archive
</a><a href="http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot" target="_blank">http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot</a></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A">Unsubscribe/Manage:
<a href="http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/robertlangtr6@yahoo.com" target="_blank">
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/robertlangtr6@yahoo.com</a></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A"> </span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black"><br>
<br>
</span></p>
<pre><span style="color:black">_______________________________________________</span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black"><a href="mailto:fot@autox.team.net" target="_blank">fot@autox.team.net</a></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black"> </span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black"><a href="http://www.fot-racing.com" target="_blank">http://www.fot-racing.com</a></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black"> </span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black">Donate: <a href="http://www.team.net/donate.html" target="_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black">Archive: <a href="http://autox.team.net/archive" target="_blank">http://autox.team.net/archive</a> <a href="http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot" target="_blank">http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot</a></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black">Unsubscribe/Manage: <a href="http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/tony@tonydrews.com" target="_blank">http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/tony@tonydrews.com</a></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black"> </span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black"> </span></pre>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black">_______________________________________________<br>
<a href="mailto:fot@autox.team.net" target="_blank">fot@autox.team.net</a><br>
<br>
<a href="http://www.fot-racing.com" target="_blank">http://www.fot-racing.com</a><br>
<br>
Donate: <a href="http://www.team.net/donate.html" target="_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>
Archive: <a href="http://autox.team.net/archive" target="_blank">http://autox.team.net/archive</a>
<a href="http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot" target="_blank">http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot</a><br>
Unsubscribe/Manage: <a href="http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/horizonracing@msn.com" target="_blank">
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/horizonracing@msn.com</a><br>
<br>
</span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black"><br>
_______________________________________________<br>
<a href="mailto:fot@autox.team.net" target="_blank">fot@autox.team.net</a><br>
<br>
<a href="http://www.fot-racing.com" target="_blank">http://www.fot-racing.com</a><br>
<br>
Donate: <a href="http://www.team.net/donate.html" target="_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>
Archive: <a href="http://autox.team.net/archive" target="_blank">http://autox.team.net/archive</a>
<a href="http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot" target="_blank">http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot</a><br>
Unsubscribe/Manage: <a href="http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/van.mulders.marcel@telenet.be" target="_blank">
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/van.mulders.marcel@telenet.be</a></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">_______________________________________________<br>
<a href="mailto:fot@autox.team.net" target="_blank">fot@autox.team.net</a><br>
<br>
<a href="http://www.fot-racing.com" target="_blank">http://www.fot-racing.com</a><br>
<br>
Donate: <a href="http://www.team.net/donate.html" target="_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>
Archive: <a href="http://autox.team.net/archive" target="_blank">http://autox.team.net/archive</a>
<a href="http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot" target="_blank">http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot</a><br>
Unsubscribe/Manage: <a href="http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/gkbyrne@optushome.com.au" target="_blank">
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/gkbyrne@optushome.com.au</a><br>
<br>
</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
<br>_______________________________________________<br>fot@autox.team.net<br><br>http://www.fot-racing.com<br><br>Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html<br>Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot<br>Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/van.mulders.marcel@telenet.be<br></div></div></body></html>