[Fot] Has anybody ran these new brake calipers?

Sun Mar 11 16:17:48 MDT 2018

What you can’t do well, at least I can’t, is go back and forth between tire types. As you know, Tony, Peyote is an odd car to drive. You drove it well, which meant you let it rip. It doesn’t respond to anything else. It’s a blast on hard Dunlops, but the tail out, front tires skittering style means driving anywhere close to the edge on Dunlops results in fairly frequent moments when the scenery is going the wrong way. Spend a few events on Speedsters that give a warning that things are going away, and let you catch it most times when it does, and when you switch back those backwards occasions come a lot more frequently. I spun four times in one lap at Laguna Seca and enjoyed a long talk at the black flag station explaining that I hadn’t forgotten how to drive, just needed a refresher on doing it with roller skate wheels. 

Certainly I could just stick with them, or buy some that aren’t ten years old with blued rubber at the edges, but it’s not that much fun to watch people you normally lap run away from you in a corner because the organizers permit rubber that works. 

I think the really unpleasant result of permitting better tires and the “safety” modifications they demand is that people who own the great race cars don’t race them. Who wants their Testarossa to get it’s pontoons blown off by a ratmobile like Peyote. There’s no way they’re going to make the modifications that would make them competitive. Every tech inspector worth their salt knows what those cars were built with. and futzing around with them threatens their megabuck value. So yup, that’s a shame, those cars were what drew me to vintage racing to begin with, but they’re gone and they ain’t coming back. 

Bill

> On Mar 11, 2018, at 9:57 AM, Tony Drews via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:
> 
> Some of the most fun I've had driving was on skinny Dunlops.  Major drift, big slip angles, what a hoot.  If we could get everyone to run that kind of thing it would be neat.  I don't think that's possible in the context of running within mixed marque groups though.
> 
> I do think that tire technology is why we need Southwick rear axles to begin with.
> Tony
> 
> On 3/11/2018 10:51 AM, fubog1 via Fot wrote:
>> Henry you not only get it, but also touch on one of the main issues.
>> Yes tire technology has allowed these cars to go a lot faster than was ever intended.
>> They get faster and more stuff breaks; fix one thing and then the next weak-link fails.
>> At what point does it end?
>> Rack & pinion steering, tubular adjustable front suspension, light brake calipers, non-triumph gearboxes, wide rims, big-bore engines, the latest greatest big-$$ rubber, etc, etc, etc; some folks are willing and can afford to take it to the limit, some aren't/cant afford it, especially with trying to stay within some set of rules.
>> That's why tires are really the biggest equalizer, as difficult as it may be to control nowadays; we really need to level the field.
>> The other point is that we have to remember that we're VINTAGE racing these cars, not doing ongoing development programs for GT cars...
>> FWIW
>> Safety FasTR!
>> Glen
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: yellow04 via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> <mailto:fot at autox.team.net>
>> To: fot <fot at autox.team.net> <mailto:fot at autox.team.net>
>> Sent: Sun, Mar 11, 2018 11:02 am
>> Subject: Re: [Fot] Has anybody ran these new brake calipers?
>> 
>> As the person who innocently started this thread on the subject of the 
>> readily available reproduction steel 16P calipers, a part I can't 
>> construe how anybody could call a cheater part, I'll add my two cents...
>> 
>> Tire technology moved Vintage Racing to a place that we can't go back 
>> from. Like it or not, in order to keep us safe at the speeds these new 
>> tires allow us to go, you need to get with the program or take your 
>> chances. Even the venerable Hoosier Vintage TD bias ply tire can be 
>> really fast in the right hands and we have proof many cars lost wheels 
>> running Vintage TD's. Safety enhancements were needed, and the gray area 
>> between whats a safety enhancement and a speed enhancement will always 
>> be the heart of the debate.
>> 
>> As I am now taking care of Old Blue, Bill Dentinger's TR3, a car that 
>> has been considered the most vintage correct TR3 running in the States, 
>> this is an issue I have personally been grappling with. It became 
>> crystal clear to me that to be comfortable running the car at any level, 
>> there were some things they did "back in the day" that just don't cut it 
>> any more. Updating some bits to make sure all the wheels stay on the car 
>> is just common sense. Taking it beyond that, there lies the conundrum... 
>> For what it's worth, under my watch Old Blue will run worm and peg 
>> steering, 87mm bore, a Triumph gearbox, and as many of Bill's original 
>> Triumph Competition Dept. bits as I can. Good fun.
>> 
>> Henry
>> 
>> On 2018-03-10 02:18, Tony Drews via Fot wrote:
>> 
>> > Not sure how a brake question turned into the annual "what is vintage"
>> > debate - seems late in the season for it this time...
>> > 
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