[Fot] Oil Cooler or Oil filter first? also re filters

Sun Dec 9 11:18:06 MST 2018

Ralph,

Are you talking about cleaning on assembly or with an engine in the car ?

I’ve heard of folks flushing the entire engine  with kerosene and even mineral spirits but I’ve just never been 100% confident I would get all of the 

solvent out of the small oil passages and risk the possibility of contaminating the fresh oil.

I’m always open to learning something new though.

jim

From: ralph hansen <quikrx at yahoo.com> 
Sent: Sunday, December 9, 2018 10:38 AM
To: van.mulders.marcel at telenet.be; Jim Gray <toodamnfunky at comcast.net>
Cc: 'fot' <fot at autox.team.net>
Subject: Re: [Fot] Oil Cooler or Oil filter first? also re filters

I always clean an engine with lots of lacquer thinner, all the passages, inside the block, head etc - everything gets a double or triple clean/soak - rattle things around if possible, small brushes etc - even oil coolers that are not badly loaded with debris, plenty of shaking when not quite full of debris - the thinner helps release the particles from walls and tubes when shaken, do them numerous times until drained thinner shows ZERO particles - have never had a repeat failure from any debris floating around - have only lost 1 engine from bearing failure (RX7), 1 from broken rod (22R), 1 from piston failure (1147), 1 from pin failure (22R), and 1 from broken rotor gear (RX7) in roughly 28 years

Ralph

On ‎Sunday‎, ‎December‎ ‎9‎, ‎2018‎ ‎10‎:‎19‎:‎17‎ ‎AM‎ ‎CST, Jim Gray via Fot <fot at autox.team.net <mailto:fot at autox.team.net> > wrote: 

I don’t flush the “ engine”. 

I just try to get as many small particulates out of the cooler and oil lines as I can within reason.

Ask yourself, how many quarts of  oil do your oil lines, cooler and sump line carry and do you actually get all that oil/debris out

with a normal oil change?

Say what you want but since I’ve started doing this my oil quality on the average has been better and I’ve

had better engine life.

Jim

From: van.mulders.marcel at telenet.be <mailto:van.mulders.marcel at telenet.be>  <van.mulders.marcel at telenet.be <mailto:van.mulders.marcel at telenet.be> > 
Sent: Sunday, December 9, 2018 6:25 AM
To: Jim Gray <toodamnfunky at comcast.net <mailto:toodamnfunky at comcast.net> >
Cc: fot <fot at autox.team.net <mailto:fot at autox.team.net> >
Subject: Re: [Fot] Oil Cooler or Oil filter first? also re filters

When the engine is running, during a race,  a hot fluid with detergents and other additives is flushing the  engine, oil cooler etc... namely the engine oil!  Frankly,  I really wonder if flushing the engine by yourself is any better. Admittedly, the engine oil is contaminated with combustion blow by, this is one of the reasons to exchange the engine oil every now and then, but is it really possible to do anything better than that? I may very well be wrong, but  so far I don't  understand why it is necessary to flush the engine.

Marcel.

  _____  

Van: "fot" <fot at autox.team.net <mailto:fot at autox.team.net> >
Aan: "Brian Schirano" <bschirano at yahoo.com <mailto:bschirano at yahoo.com> >, "fubog1" <fubog1 at aol.com <mailto:fubog1 at aol.com> >, "fot" <fot at autox.team.net <mailto:fot at autox.team.net> >, bownes at web9.com <mailto:bownes at web9.com> , "Rocky Entriken" <rocky at spitfire4.com <mailto:rocky at spitfire4.com> >
Verzonden: Zaterdag 8 december 2018 18:13:14
Onderwerp: Re: [Fot] Oil Cooler or Oil filter first? also re filters

Brian,

I mis-spoke when I said I flush the accusump with kerosene. I flush the accusump with cheapo oil but flush the sump lines with kerosene

When I dump the old oil I leave the electric valve open and run the pressure up with the Schrader valve in the other end to insure the piston is bottomed.

I put the cheap oil in the oil charger, remove the Schrader valve and connect it to the accusump completely fill the accusump with oil, re connect the sump line, put the Schrader valve back in and run the pressure up to 90 PSI and blow the oil back out into the pan while draining.

Then I’ll remove the Schrader valve again, connect my flusher to both ends of the sump line and circulate some kerosene. I still have cheapo oil in the charger,

I’ll run a quart of that through the sump line just to chase out any kerosene and move to the oil cooler and cooler lines. The last phase is with new VR-1,

Fully charge the accusump, fill the sump line & reconnect, re-fill the oil cooler and cooler lines and reconnect everything & done. I set up all my oil lines to make this easy. My oil cooler lines have an inline filter and both incoming and out going lines have a connection right on top of the L/F fender for easy access.

It sounds like a pain but a full oil change and flush takes me about an hour. I could make things even easier with dry break fittings but those things are really pricey so for now I’ll just spend the hour on a change. On a new engine everything will come apart and get hand cleaned.

Having that K & P filter really helps get tiny debris out as it’s generated.

jim

From: Brian Schirano <bschirano at yahoo.com <mailto:bschirano at yahoo.com> > 
Sent: Friday, December 7, 2018 8:57 PM
To: fubog1 <fubog1 at aol.com <mailto:fubog1 at aol.com> >; fubog1 via Fot <fot at autox.team.net <mailto:fot at autox.team.net> >; bownes at web9.com <mailto:bownes at web9.com> ; rocky at spitfire4.com <mailto:rocky at spitfire4.com> ; JAMES GRAY <toodamnfunky at comcast.net <mailto:toodamnfunky at comcast.net> >
Subject: Re: [Fot] Oil Cooler or Oil filter first? also re filters

would love to hear more on the flushing system. Particularly how do you flush the accusump? there is only one way in and out. I've taken it apart and cleaned it, but a flush?

26A GT6+, 28 TR6

Brian Schirano
585-305-0349 Cell 
BSchirano at yahoo.com <mailto:BSchirano at yahoo.com> 

On Friday, December 7, 2018, 11:44:52 AM EST, JAMES GRAY via Fot <fot at autox.team.net <mailto:fot at autox.team.net> > wrote: 

Some years ago now I had a conversation with Lake Speed Jr at Brad Penn oils about viscosity and drove home the importance of maintaining oil quality. After that conversation I went all out in the way I treat my oiling system.

I run the K & P oil filter with cleanble element. I keep a spare filter element which I change out after every day of racing. The filter elements are FAA certified so good enough for me. So, after each day of racing I can see how my motor is doing in just a couple minutes. Oil is changed after two weekends. On each oil change I completely flush

all my oil lines, oil cooler and my accusump with kerosene with the handy recirculating flusher I made from a 5 gallon bucket and 12 volt fluid pump. I'll run a few quarts of cheap oil through just to make sure there is no kerosene left. After that I recharge the entire system with a pressurized oil fill can with VR-1.

This way I have all the old oil out and can refill the oil lines, cooler and accusump with fresh oil. Then I can re-pressurize the accusump and it's ready to go on the next engine start.

Overkill? maybe, but overkill is underated anyway. My motors last longer as a result of the extra work.

On December 3, 2018 at 3:28 PM fubog1 via Fot <fot at autox.team.net <mailto:fot at autox.team.net> > wrote: 

I routinely cut the spin-on filters open for inspection, street and race cars.

There's a purpose-made cutter available nowadays, it's just a big tubing cutter.

My procedure is to cut off the end, remove the element, strip the hardware off of it and cut the ends off with a sharp blade. Then stretch out the element dirty (outside) up on a couple layers of paper towels and weight the ends so that it lays flat.

Leave it overnight so that the oil soaks out of it and you'll be able to see any trash very clearly in the folds.

You'll also be amazed at how little filter material is in some filters eg fram...

NAPA Gold/WIX seem to be the best.

Glen 

-----Original Message----- 
From: robert bownes <bownes at web9.com <mailto:bownes at web9.com> > 
To: Rocky Entriken <rocky at spitfire4.com <mailto:rocky at spitfire4.com> > 
Cc: britcars <britcars at bellsouth.net <mailto:britcars at bellsouth.net> >; fubog1 <fubog1 at aol.com <mailto:fubog1 at aol.com> >; vfracing <vfracing at aol.com <mailto:vfracing at aol.com> >; FOT <fot at autox.team.net <mailto:fot at autox.team.net> > 
Sent: Mon, Dec 3, 2018 4:45 pm 
Subject: Re: [Fot] Oil Cooler or Oil filter first? 

After cleaning out a filter that survived a bad bearing in my 1147 Spit (Back in the Day) and re-using it (It was after the filter), the next engine lasted a whole 22 minutes, about 3 sessions short of a race weekend, before the very same failure occurred. I've never re-used a cooler since. 

But I do have a stack of 3 or 4 for anyone who wants one. :)

I miss that car. But not the grenades that it kept under the hood.

On Mon, Dec 3, 2018 at 4:20 PM Rocky Entriken via Fot < fot at autox.team.net <mailto:fot at autox.team.net> > wrote: 

Any bad stuff in the oil lines is gonna originate in the engine, so make the filter the first stop (and usually the shortest line). Then the cooler. And what nobody else mentioned, a check valve after the cooler before it goes back to the engine (keeps oil from flowing backwards into cooler, say on start-up.) My Accusump is plumbed into a Tee that’s just before the engine inlet – what goes to the Accusump is filtered and cooled oil, and what comes from the Accusump goes only to the engine because the check valve prevents it going the other way.

And yeah, coolers are cheap. If I’m concerned I’ll flush out the lines (self-service car wash does the trick, use high-pressure rinse), but buy a new cooler.

--Rocky

From: barry rosenberg via Fot

Sent: Monday, December 3, 2018 7:27 AM

To: fubog1 ; Phil Gott

Cc: fot at autox.team.net <mailto:fot at autox.team.net> 

Subject: Re: [Fot] Oil Cooler or Oil filter first?

Yes, filter first. But what I have run into on some customers cars is the way the cooler lines run. Most coolers are mounted with the fittings on top. This does not permit the cooler to drain and when you change your oil, the cooler retains the old oil. You have to remove the cooler and at least one line to drain the old oil out. Try to set your cooler a little high with the fitting on the bottom so it can self drain. Of course, this means you must pre-lube the engine before startup. I also set my cooler behind the radiator and not in front. NASCAR experts say that the closer the oil and water temp are to each other, the better.

Barry

On Monday, December 3, 2018, 8:02:15 AM EST, Phil Gott via Fot < fot at autox.team.net <mailto:fot at autox.team.net> > wrote:

Filter first. Keeps the crud out of the cooker. Coolers are hard to clean. Good thought By Glen to replace the cooker on engine refreshing. 

With a cooler in the system, also a good idea to prelube the engine with an Accusump upon cold start. Oil cooler lines are long and may drain upon standing a while. 

Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 3, 2018, at 7:02 AM, fubog1 via Fot < fot at autox.team.net <mailto:fot at autox.team.net> > wrote: 

I typically run an inspectable (Oberg) out of the engine before the cooler, and a second filter after the cooler.

It may be overkill but it eliminates the possibility of oil cooler trash getting in the engine.

I also replace the cooler @ every engine freshen-up.

Glen

-----Original Message----- 
From: Bud Rolofson via Fot < fot at autox.team.net <mailto:fot at autox.team.net> >

-To: FOT < fot at autox.team.net <mailto:fot at autox.team.net> > 
Sent: Mon, Dec 3, 2018 2:51 am 
Subject: [Fot] Oil Cooler or Oil filter first? 

Listerati, 

For those of you running a remote oil cooler and remote oil filter do you run the hose coming OUT of the engine into the cooler first or the filter first? Just wanted to see how and why (if there’s a reason) most run their lines. 

Thanks 

Bud 

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