[Fot] Gt6 differential failure
gt6steve at aol.com
gt6steve at aol.com
Tue Jul 14 18:57:30 MDT 2015
I started destroying the transmissions when I went to a solid clutch Not so much the diffs. But I cant tell you how many races I ran with third gear teeth on the floor.
-----Original Message-----
From: Jason Ostrowski <jason at multivintage.com>
To: John Hasty <jhasty at mhc-law.com>
Cc: 'Friends of Triumph' Triumph <fot at autox.team.net>
Sent: Tue, Jul 14, 2015 3:30 pm
Subject: Re: [Fot] Gt6 differential failure
I disagree. For the GT6 race car if you want to go fast that is simply not
true.
Jason Ostrowski
Friendly Ghost Racing
Sent from my iPhone
> On Jul 14,
2015, at 3:56 PM, John Hasty <jhasty at mhc-law.com> wrote:
>
> Shock loading in
road race conditions is why the guys at SPEC say you should use a clutch disc
with springs
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jul 14, 2015, at 4:19 PM, "Peter
Vucinic" <pvucinic at netspace.net.au<mailto:pvucinic at netspace.net.au>> wrote:
>
>
Scott,
> To answer some of your questions.
> Would lower oil temps stops ‘gear
teeth breaking off’ Short answer NO. However, you should look at the
differential as a complete system.
>
> If you had tooth failure It could be due
to a number of things: -
>
> 1. Long Term Use/Operation Fatigue Failure
>
> 2. High instantaneous/shock loading Failure
>
> 3. Improper
backlash/clearances – Causing Tooth Failure as a result of incorrect tooth
loading
>
> 4. Improper lubrication/type/grade/flow/level/operating
temperature
>
> The beauty of synthetic oils is that it allows the system to
run at MUCH lower temperatures (And operate at higher temps of course) as a
direct result of the synthetic oil being able to FLOW/POUR with less resistance.
Just like mixing a cake! The thicker the mix, the higher the work load required
to mix, the more friction, the hotter the mixing temps.
>
> The other side of
the coin, in general, Synthetic is that is has LESS mechanical dampening for
high shock loading than traditional mineral based oils for the same grade
product. Even on synthetic engine oils you will see description such as ‘made
for modern/tight clearances’ etc. etc. Reduced operating clearances and high oil
shearing applications etc. is synthetics domain.
>
> So, when you look at the
system as a whole. YES, it’s important to have the oil in its optimum
temperature range. BUT all the other factors are equally important. The oil is
not mutually exclusive in the equation.
>
> Hope that helps?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> From: Scott Janzen [mailto:sjanzen at me.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, 14 July 2015
4:44 AM
> To: Peter Vucinic
> Cc: 'Jason Ostrowski'; ''Friends of Triumph'
Triumph'
> Subject: Re: [Fot] Gt6 differential failure
>
> so, while I respect
the need proper operating temps, if the failure experienced is not bearing
failure, but simply gear teeth breaking off under load, would lower temps
help?
> I run Redline synthetic.
>
> On Jul 13, 2015, at 2:32 PM, Peter Vucinic
wrote:
>
>
> Get the oil temp down and use full synthetic.
> I did much
testing on my road going TR4 diff. Even a road car, at highway speed cruising,
the oil temp is 180-200F.
> With the diff ‘tucked up’ and limited air flow. You
are starting with a problem before you start!
>
>
> "You can Make a Small
Fortune From Motor Racing. As long as You Started With A Lage Fortune!"
> Kind
Regards
> Peter Vucinic
> TR4 - TR7 V8 - Spitfire MkII
>
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> From: Fot [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net]
On Behalf Of Scott Janzen
> Sent: Tuesday, 14 July 2015 12:20 AM
> To: Jason
Ostrowski
> Cc: 'Friends of Triumph' Triumph
> Subject: Re: [Fot] Gt6
differential failure
>
> thanks, Jason - yes, I was banging through the gears,
and there's now a steep 150' +/- DROP at this track, downhill turn, where I was
in second gear at 7,000 RPM, first accelerating, then letting it slow me down as
I approached the sharp right to the uphill climb. I'm sure that did not do the
diff any good.
>
> Somehow the idea of putting a Subaru diff in this car does
not feel very "vintage".
>
> Question - has anyone checked the oil temp, and
would cooling make a difference? I do run Redline 75-85 gear oil.
>
> I will
report back and send carnage photos when I get it out.
>
> On Jul 13, 2015, at
10:12 AM, Jason Ostrowski wrote:
>
> I agree that it is consumable.
> A change
to something different would seem to lead to a redesign of all the parts that
mate to it and that could turn into a whole new set of other related projects.
>
Likely a costly and complex endeavor to say the least.
> Knowing you, I assume
you are using a quality oil already as Steve recommends.
> I notice you are
racing faster lately and seem to be doing great with the car.
>
> Begin Public
Service announcement to all FoT...
>
> That being said, (especially the faster
you go) don't forget to remind yourself regularly about how you need to treat
the drivetrain.
> Perhaps most importantly on this issue is careful driving with
a constant focus to smooth transition between the gears.
> And really important
is super smooth take-offs.
> I'm lucky to have John Reed (best GT6 racer of all
time) at the track with me most of the time.
> He is never afraid to remind me
of this.
> And does so on a regular basis when I'm leaving the grid.
> Even
after all these years of coaching he will still often yell at me through my
helmet prior to taking off.
> something like....
> "Ride that F$#&%ng clutch
baby!!"
> or "Easy take off".
> Wisdom I'm not afraid to admit I need to be
reminded of in a tense moment taking off to hit the track.
> One slip of the
foot or abrupt start is all it takes to do damage to the differential.
> I can
trace most of my differential failures back to sketchy shift transitions or
abrupt starts...
> We all hate to admit that an equipment failure is our own
fault but, speaking for myself, I know it often is.
> This was an FoT Public
Service Announcement...
> Brought to you by Friendly Ghost Racing.
>
> Jason
Ostrowski
> Friendly Ghost Racing
> 1969 Triumph GT6+ Racecars
>
>
> On Sun,
Jul 12, 2015 at 7:01 AM, Scott Janzen <sjanzen at me.com<mailto:sjanzen at me.com>>
wrote:
> Mine disintegrated in a big way in the last race yesterday at Pitt
Race. Last one did the same thing about 3-4 years ago.
> Should I just consider
this a consumable item, or swap to something stronger? What are other vintage
racers doing?
>
> Sent from my mobile device
>
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