[Fot] Fwd: Rear Main Oil Seal Options --- UPDATE ---

[Dan Cronin]

TO ALL WHO RESPONDED AND those who may have had similar thoughts but had some one on the list beat them to a response and to those who may benefit from the discussion.

I received (on and off lists) around 15 responses to my original query concerning trying to re-create the archimedes rear crank scroll on my virgin Crower billet steel (4340 chrome moly  that had the scroll area ground to 2.500" which was the "standard" in the instructions of the day (back in 2007---later revised to 2.525 but too late for me!).  Nearly 95% of respondents cautioned against applying weld (to include spray welding) to accomplish this proposal which would have required a build up of a bit over 5/16" in order to machine back the scroll.  When I visited the local crankshaft technician he was concerned that the hardness of the 4340 CM steel would not allow for proper initial bedding / adhesion.  When I checked with Crower's tech dept. later in the day he agreed and indicated that they also applied a low temp. nitride treatment to a depth of 3/4 mil. which further hardened the wear surfaces of the crank.

 Most replies just suggested I abandon the proposed use of the Viton seal and use the original (Nitril) Rover based lip seal, just be very careful in it's fitting.  If it is a bit loose, perhaps snip slightly one of the seal mating surfaces and make sure the spring is 8" or a hair under in connected length and follow the tips in Uncle Jack's Engine Building Tips write up with Tonys addendum.
  
One interesting suggestion from Don E was to look into Hard Chroming that area to get to the desired 2.525" diameter.  The Cower tech. thought that a good suggestion but cautioned that who ever did it needed to be "good" at it, as getting it applied evenly was the key so as to avoid having to apply too much then grind it back down.  I and my mechanic continue to look into this option. 
 
Another suggestion came from Marcel VM to look into Moss Europe, whom he indicated offered the "old lip seal" in both Nitril material and the newer Viton material.  I have placed a query to Moss Europe regarding this option as the Viton material is somewhat superior long term.  Since starting (and stopping) this email I have received from Moss Europe a response to my query indicating that they do indeed have both types of lip seals available.  Part no. TT1032S is the original Nitril material and TT1032SX is the later Viton material.  I have asked for confirmation that these seals are for the "scroll-less" kits and for pricing information which is yet to arrive back.   Those of you who are in the same boat as I (and many others)  may find this a good replacement option when you next re-build your motors.

So, if the "X" Viton seal from Moss Europe (wonder if Moss USA could import a bunch to make purchase easier?) does work with the (shall I call it the intermediate kits) modified crank (without scroll)  and seal then that is what I will do.  I may consider having the former scroll area hard chromed to the 2.525" diameter as well if it can be done in the Detroit Metro Area.

Thanks to all who contributed to this exercise.
Dan C.





On Feb 20, 2015, at 10:40 PM, Dan via Fot <fot at autox.team.net <mailto:fot at autox.team.net>> wrote:

2/20
Good Evening All
I Am reaching out to all TR owners for your thoughts and advice concerning a decision I will soon need to confront.

Several years ago I went in on a "pool purchase" led by Mordy D and have a beautiful billet steel Cower crank---built without the rear scroll and to the 2.50" dia. that was used at the time for the then new and improved "Lip Seal"  I was planning on using. 

Fast forward to today and the really new Viton rear seal kit which I have purchased and would really like to use now that the engine is finally getting built.  

I am meeting with a couple of crankshaft specialists here in the Detroit Metro Area the first of the week to see if they think they can build up (with weld) the area that the scroll would have occupied and machine it back to match the stock crank configuration in order to use the Viton Seal.  This leads me to ask two questions:
1)	Has anyone had this done or heard of it being done and if so any cautions or suggestions or lessons learned?

2)	Has anyone tried to use the Viton Seal on a crank that has had the scroll machined off and what has been the end result of this experiment, or would it be better to just use the now old "lip seal" and tighten up the carrier and lip seal and shorten the spring a bit to try and grip the 2.50 diameter surface a bit closer.?

Any thoughts, cautions, theories, etc any of you have or could share (either via the list or privately) will be most appreciated.  I have a lot of cool things going into this motor build and really do not want to screw it up doing something I do not fully understand.

Thanks, 
Dan Cronin
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