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Hi, Don,
That=E2=80=99s the plate which I think is suspect. That said, the FRE suffix=
implies factory reconditioned engine. The fact the plate is riveted also is=
cause for speculation as its location is uncomfortably close to coolant pas=
sages and that=E2=80=99s something in itself which would make Engineering ve=
ry twitchy. The golden rule was you never drilled holes in castings unless y=
ou wanted to tap into a coolant or oil feed. Penetrating those internal dril=
ling=E2=80=99s by accident was not an option.
Sadly, I don=E2=80=99t know now what changes may have occurred that far back=
in terms of what was genuine and what was not. Those of us in the company w=
ho were customer facing (I was one of them and company showroom based in Lon=
don) underwent a raft of continuous training and procedural instruction on s=
o many aspects of the overall business, what was done, why, what was accepta=
ble - and what wasn=E2=80=99t. There was a policy that those of us in the sh=
owroom were expected to be walking encyclopaedias on everything the company=
did in case we ever got asked. Believe me, we got asked a lot of questions o=
n a huge array of issues. I do so wish I still had all those training notes,=
production cutover changes, service recall info, Engineering Change Bulleti=
ns and Service Bulletins but I finally ditched them at the time of my divorc=
e in 1987. I=E2=80=99ve lost count of the number of occasions since then whe=
n I deeply regret throwing them out!!!! I can=E2=80=99t and won=E2=80=99t ar=
gue with your photo evidence except to say I remember my mother=E2=80=99s 19=
54 Standard Eight saloon having a factory recon engine in 1957. The original=
unit blew out a core plug, lost all its coolant and then seized. That rebui=
lt unit was painted blue with a different number and no plate. That also app=
lied to the hundreds of recon units I saw over the years - and that included=
the old side valve engines going back to the 1930s! I also well recall Dad w=
as so disgusted with said engine that he took it out, stripped it right down=
and rebuilt it again to =E2=80=98as new=E2=80=99 production spec. The car w=
as still on the road with friends who bought it, as late as 1968 and it was s=
till painted blue.
We=E2=80=99re now so far down the track, I doubt there=E2=80=99s anyone I kn=
ow who is still alive who can provide a definitive answer which is a pity fo=
r the originality fraternity, especially on your side of the pond for whom s=
uch detail appears to be so important:)
Sorry - but cheers, John
> On 19 Jun 2023, at 19:16, Don Hiscock <don.hiscock@gmail.com> wrote:
>=20
> Which photo looks wonky to you, John?
>=20
> The one I posted earlier, this one...
> https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-XvTTKzN/0/26f8c2fc/O/i-XvTTKzN.jpg
>=20
> ...belongs to OFU198, a TR3 in long ownership by Bob LeBrocq in Leatherhea=
d, Surrey.
> https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-7qMKXqm/0/e16da7ed/X5/i-7qMKXqm-X5.jpg=
>=20
> Bob tells me he repainted the engine in black when he had it out a few yea=
rs before I took that photo in 2015. And that he has no recollection at all=
of what color the block was before that!
>=20
> The engine with that plate have been in the car as long as he's had it -- m=
any, many decades, possibly since the early 1970s -- and he figures it was i=
nstalled in the 1960s. He's pretty sure it's a legit FRE unit. =20
>=20
> Whaddya think?
>=20
> Don
>=20
>> On Mon, Jun 19, 2023 at 12:37=E2=80=AFPM John Macartney <johnbmacartney@g=
mx.com> wrote:
>> There=E2=80=99s been a picture during the recent life of this thread of w=
hat appears to be a factory recon unit. A few aspects make me feel it=E2=80=99=
s not a genuine example though I must stress the evidence is a tad circumsta=
ntial.
>>=20
>> 1. The identity plate doesn=E2=80=99t look to be of the quality the compa=
ny would have approved. There=E2=80=99s something about it that looks a bit =E2=
=80=98amateur=E2=80=99.
>>=20
>> 2. As I=E2=80=99ve already commented in other posts, factory recon units (=
afaik) never used the original engine number or a number that looks like it.=
It was completely different, stamped where the original number would have b=
een, and not on a riveted plate.
>>=20
>> 3. There=E2=80=99s no evidence of the ubiquitous blue paint on the block o=
r any other part of the block within the reach of the camera lens.
>>=20
>> Sticking my neck out, I feel the engine we=E2=80=99ve seen was probably r=
econditioned in the US or Canada, under a supply contract set up by Standard=
=E2=80=99s national importer. Such a contract would allow an identity implyi=
ng it was a =E2=80=98genuine=E2=80=99 part and with a warranty that the impo=
rter and the authorised dealer network would have honoured.
>>=20
>> Sorry and wish I could be more specific but there=E2=80=99s too much on t=
he pic provided that doesn=E2=80=99t ring true to make that engine genuinely=
appear to be a factory original recon unit. Hopefully the foregoing May pro=
vide those who are model experts for concours judging with some useful backg=
round?
>>=20
>> Jonmac
>> ** triumphs@autox.team.net **
>>=20
>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs http://www.team.net/arch=
ive
>>=20
>> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/don.hi=
scock@gmail.com
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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3D=
utf-8"></head><body dir=3D"auto"><div dir=3D"ltr"></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Hi,=
Don,</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">That=E2=80=99s the pl=
ate which I think is suspect. That said, the FRE suffix implies factory reco=
nditioned engine. The fact the plate is riveted also is cause for speculatio=
n as its location is uncomfortably close to coolant passages and that=E2=80=99=
s something in itself which would make Engineering very twitchy. The golden r=
ule was you never drilled holes in castings unless you wanted to tap into a c=
oolant or oil feed. Penetrating those internal drilling=E2=80=99s by acciden=
t was not an option.</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Sadly,=
I don=E2=80=99t know now what changes may have occurred that far back in te=
rms of what was genuine and what was not. Those of us in the company who wer=
e customer facing (I was one of them and company showroom based in London) u=
nderwent a raft of continuous training and procedural instruction on so many=
aspects of the overall business, what was done, why, what was acceptable - a=
nd what wasn=E2=80=99t. There was a policy that those of us in the showroom w=
ere expected to be walking encyclopaedias on everything the company di=
d in case we ever got asked. Believe me, we got asked a lot of questions on a=
huge array of issues. I do so wish I still had all those training notes, pr=
oduction cutover changes, service recall info, Engineering Change Bulletins a=
nd Service Bulletins but I finally ditched them at the time of my divorce in=
1987. I=E2=80=99ve lost count of the number of occasions since then when I d=
eeply regret throwing them out!!!! I can=E2=80=99t and won=E2=80=99t argue w=
ith your photo evidence except to say I remember my mother=E2=80=99s 1954 St=
andard Eight saloon having a factory recon engine in 1957. The original unit=
blew out a core plug, lost all its coolant and then seized. That rebuilt un=
it was painted blue with a different number and no plate. That also applied t=
o the hundreds of recon units I saw over the years - and that included the o=
ld side valve engines going back to the 1930s! I also well recall Dad was so=
disgusted with said engine that he took it out, stripped it right down and r=
ebuilt it again to =E2=80=98as new=E2=80=99 production spec. The car was sti=
ll on the road with friends who bought it, as late as 1968 and it was still p=
ainted blue.</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">We=E2=80=99re n=
ow so far down the track, I doubt there=E2=80=99s anyone I know who is still=
alive who can provide a definitive answer which is a pity for the originali=
ty fraternity, especially on your side of the pond for whom such detail appe=
ars to be so important:)</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">So=
rry - but cheers, John</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br>On 19 Jun 2023, at 19:16, D=
on Hiscock <<a href=3D"mailto:don.hiscock@gmail.com";>don.hiscock@gmail.co=
m</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr"><di=
v dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-si=
ze:small">Which photo looks wonky to you, John?</div><div class=3D"gmail_def=
ault" style=3D"font-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=
=3D"font-size:small">The one I posted earlier, this one...</div><div class=3D=
"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small"><a href=3D"https://photos.smugmug.=
com/photos/i-XvTTKzN/0/26f8c2fc/O/i-XvTTKzN.jpg">https://photos.smugmug.com/=
photos/i-XvTTKzN/0/26f8c2fc/O/i-XvTTKzN.jpg</a><br></div><div class=3D"gmail=
_default" style=3D"font-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" s=
tyle=3D"font-size:small">...belongs to OFU198, a TR3 in long ownership by Bo=
b LeBrocq in Leatherhead, Surrey.</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D=
"font-size:small"><a href=3D"https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-7qMKXqm/0/e=
16da7ed/X5/i-7qMKXqm-X5.jpg">https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-7qMKXqm/0/e=
16da7ed/X5/i-7qMKXqm-X5.jpg</a><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D=
"font-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:=
small">Bob tells me he repainted the engine in black when he had it out a fe=
w years before I took that photo in 2015. And that he has no recollect=
ion at all of what color the block was before that!</div><div class=3D"gmail=
_default" style=3D"font-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" s=
tyle=3D"font-size:small">The engine with that plate have been in the car as l=
ong as he's had it -- many, many decades, possibly since the early 1970s -- a=
nd he figures it was installed in the 1960s. He's pretty sure it's a l=
egit FRE unit. </div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"f=
ont-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:sm=
all">Whaddya think?</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:sma=
ll"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small">Don</di=
v></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr"=
>On Mon, Jun 19, 2023 at 12:37=E2=80=AFPM John Macartney <<a href=3D"mail=
to:johnbmacartney@gmx.com">johnbmacartney@gmx.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><b=
lockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-lef=
t:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">There=E2=80=99s been a pictur=
e during the recent life of this thread of what appears to be a factory reco=
n unit. A few aspects make me feel it=E2=80=99s not a genuine example though=
I must stress the evidence is a tad circumstantial.<br>
<br>
1. The identity plate doesn=E2=80=99t look to be of the quality the company w=
ould have approved. There=E2=80=99s something about it that looks a bit =E2=80=
=98amateur=E2=80=99.<br>
<br>
2. As I=E2=80=99ve already commented in other posts, factory recon units (af=
aik) never used the original engine number or a number that looks like it. I=
t was completely different, stamped where the original number would have bee=
n, and not on a riveted plate.<br>
<br>
3. There=E2=80=99s no evidence of the ubiquitous blue paint on the block or a=
ny other part of the block within the reach of the camera lens.<br>
<br>
Sticking my neck out, I feel the engine we=E2=80=99ve seen was probably reco=
nditioned in the US or Canada, under a supply contract set up by Standard=E2=
=80=99s national importer. Such a contract would allow an identity implying i=
t was a =E2=80=98genuine=E2=80=99 part and with a warranty that the importer=
and the authorised dealer network would have honoured.<br>
<br>
Sorry and wish I could be more specific but there=E2=80=99s too much on the p=
ic provided that doesn=E2=80=99t ring true to make that engine genuinely app=
ear to be a factory original recon unit. Hopefully the foregoing May provide=
those who are model experts for concours judging with some useful backgroun=
d?<br>
<br>
Jonmac<br>
** <a href=3D"mailto:triumphs@autox.team.net"; target=3D"_blank">triumphs@aut=
ox.team.net</a> **<br>
<br>
t=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>
Archive: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs"; rel=3D"noreferre=
r" target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs</a> <a hre=
f=3D"http://www.team.net/archive"; rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http:=
//www.team.net/archive</a><br>
<br>
s/don.hiscock@gmail.com" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.t=
eam.net/mailman/options/triumphs/don.hiscock@gmail.com</a><br>
</blockquote></div></div>
</div></blockquote></body></html>=
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Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs http://www.team.net/archive
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