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Re: Hydraulics teamfat2.dsl.aros.net id f5LL0HF21557

To: Triumphs Mailing List <triumphs@autox.team.net>
Subject: Re: Hydraulics teamfat2.dsl.aros.net id f5LL0HF21557
From: Pete & Aprille Chadwell <pandachadwell@mac.com>
Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 14:00:10 -0700
References: <41AC0D167082D111BC5B0001026C8B591A8A56@PIXEL_WEBSERVER> <3B323DDF.A429D075@gte.net>
Joe Curry wrote:

>I don't think so.  These are scientific principles at work here.
>
>Compression causes heat (That is why intercoolers are so popular to 
>cool the air that is compressed by superchargers and turbochargers)
>
>Heat typically causes expansion. 
>
>The two principles are irrefutable.  Now, I won't say that in 
>hydraulic systems the principles apply to any great extent because 
>as I said, the fluids
>are selected due to their properties that resist compression.  And 
>since the action at the input is reciprocated by an action at the 
>other end of the
>system, not much compression takes place anyway.  It is more an 
>action of displacement rather than compression.

I'm totally with Joe on this one
 however, I can understand why 
people on a purely knee-jerk level perceive this as a contradiction. 
The expansion in the fluid that takes place as a result of heat 
(which results from pressure) is on a molecular level.  There really 
is no 'real-world' effect of that expansion
 it is so small that it 
can basically be written off as purely theoretical.  Therefore, the 
expansion does not negate or even diminish (significantly) the net 
effect of the action of the hydraulic system.

Joe also correctly points out that hydraulic fluids are not supposed 
to be compressible (relatively speaking, that is).  If hydraulic 
fluids were compressible, hydraulic systems wouldn't function.

There is really very little compression going on in a clutch 
hydraulic system (for instance) because there is something on the 
other end allowing fluid to move.  This is what Joe refers to when he 
says 'displacement.'  Braking systems, however, are different as the 
pistons in the caliper stop allowing fluid to 'move' as soon as the 
pads contact the rotor, and yet still we push harder and harder on 
the pedal.  Since the piston on the other end has met the rotor, and 
since the fluid is NOT compressible, all we accomplish by continuing 
to push is to increase pressure.  This creates heat in addition to 
the heat that is created at the pads, and although the heat from the 
pads is far greater in proportion, all of the heat involved will 
contribute to fluid fade.  Pad fade is only the result of heat at the 
pads, but fluid fade is the result of all the heat created.

Joe's propensity to type 'fluif' instead of 'fluid' has not hurt the 
man's credibility on hydraulics in my book!

Give 'em Hell, Joe!

-- 
Pete Chadwell
1973 TR6

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