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I'd be curious to know if the successor Alpine (the Baby Barracuda) had
any "Tiger-izing" considerations? While not a sports car it would have
been an interesting concept given that the USA was in the pony car phase
at that time. The later Alpine likely met regulations for importation at
the time as a number of them were sold here. Then again I doubt it would
have been Ford Small block powered. And what would have been the
Chrysler 273/318 at the time is a rather wide small block engine. Mike
Taylor's "The Making OF A Sports Car" states that the Humber Super Snipe
had?? number of prototype's built with the Chrysler V8. Hence my
curiosity regarding the possibility of a later Alpine with a Chrysler V8.
?? In a sense we probably need to be grateful that we got three full
years of Tigers. If I recall correctly the imports were given a 2 year
delay in meeting standards that I believe were mandated for '65 or '66
for USA cars.
On 3/8/2020 1:39 PM, Ken via Tigers wrote:
>
> Thank you Buck for settling this matter. Wish that I could spend time
> going through the archives!
>
> Ken Tisdale
>
> On 3/8/2020 12:30 PM, Buck Trippel via Tigers wrote:
>>
>> The best and most authoritative answers to the why the Tiger was
>> discontinued that I???ve found are in the collection of Papworth papers
>> housed in the Culture Coventry Archive at the Herbert Museum in Coventry.
>>
>> Mr Papworth was a very high level ???planner??? for Rootes. He reported
>> to a very select group, comprised mainly of family members who were
>> the heart of the Rootes board. After his retirement he donated
>> thousands(?) of pages of notes and memos. I???ve spent several days
>> reading them and want to go back.
>>
>> Mr. Papworth lays out a very comprehensive Tiger story. The Tiger
>> represented only 2% of Rootes??? sales and was consequentially just a
>> blip on management???s attention. Tigers were barely mentioned in board
>> meetings as the high production Imps and Hillmans dominated the
>> discussions. The Mk1s & 1As sold well. The Mk2 that was built was not
>> the Mk2 that the engineers had designed and tested (with upgraded
>> 5-bolt 14??? wheels to fit 4-wheel discs, the same 3-puck calipers used
>> on Aston Martins and street Cobras) and the resulting lack of initial
>> sales seemed to be the straw that broke the camel???s back. But
>> Papworth also outlines other contributing issues.
>>
>> Rootes engineers determined that Chrysler V8s would not fit in a
>> Tiger. They explored alternatives including one that would have been
>> built a new ???Tiger??? with fiberglass body in the USA. Obviously none
>> of those alternatives worked out.
>>
>> After Lord Rootes passed away his brother, Reggie, assumed control.
>> Reggie wanted to replace the Alpine/Tiger with a smaller sportscar
>> that was similar to a Spitfire. That car, ???Apex???, had been designed
>> and was very close to production when a sub-contractor tripled the
>> initial cost estimate for its fiberglass body. That ended Rootes???
>> attempt at a replacement sportscar.
>>
>> The US government had long imposed standards for the cars it
>> purchased for government use ??? the GSA standards. These existing GSA
>> standards were eventually adopted for all cars sold in the US. The
>> Alpine/Tiger platform would have needed upgrades to comply. Tooling
>> for these would have been costly on a per unit basis due to low
>> production volume.
>>
>> The space used at Pressed Steel to build the Alpines and Tigers was
>> needed by another Rootes vehicle which was high production and
>> therefore a higher priority. Assuming Rootes would accept the cost of
>> upgrades to comply with GSA standards, where could the Alpine/Tiger
>> be built? Rootes looked at alternatives including moving the entire
>> Alpine/Tiger production from Pressed Steel to Jensen. At one point
>> Rootes even offered to purchase Jensen. Jensen refused. The move
>> never happened. Rootes never found an alternate contractor to build
>> the cars.
>>
>> Papworth cites all of these factors in the decision to end Tiger
>> production.
>>
>> Buck Trippel
>>
>> *From:* Tigers <tigers-bounces@autox.team.net> *On Behalf Of *Ross
>> Hulse via Tigers
>> *Sent:* Sunday, March 8, 2020 1:57 AM
>> *To:* Curt Bowland <cbowland@msn.com>
>> *Cc:* tigers <tigers@autox.team.net>
>> *Subject:* Re: [Tigers] Urban legend
>>
>> The demise of the Sunbeam Tiger was that they did not sell very
>> well.?? The USA import regs for cars would require expensive
>> modifications to the car.?? So in February 1967 the decision was made
>> to finish the cars that were in the line and send them to Canada.??
>> Everything about not fitting a Chrysler engine is just a rumor.
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> tigers@autox.team.net
>>
>> Donate:http://www.team.net/donate.html
>> Archive:http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive
>>
>> Unsubscribe:http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/ktisdale@ix.netcom.com
>>
>>
> --
> Ken Tisdale
> 303-807-5488
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> tigers@autox.team.net
>
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe:
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>
>
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<p>I'd be curious to know if the successor Alpine (the Baby
Barracuda) had any "Tiger-izing" considerations? While not a
sports car it would have been an interesting concept given that
the USA was in the pony car phase at that time. The later Alpine
likely met regulations for importation at the time as a number of
them were sold here. Then again I doubt it would have been Ford
Small block powered. And what would have been the Chrysler 273/318
at the time is a rather wide small block engine. Mike Taylor's
"The Making OF A Sports Car" states that the Humber Super Snipe
had?? number of prototype's built with the Chrysler V8. Hence my
curiosity regarding the possibility of a later Alpine with a
Chrysler V8.<br>
</p>
<p>?? In a sense we probably need to be grateful that we got three
full years of Tigers. If I recall correctly the imports were given
a 2 year delay in meeting standards that I believe were mandated
for '65 or '66 for USA cars.<br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 3/8/2020 1:39 PM, Ken via Tigers
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:94673577-c165-1424-ffa4-98e2aff2c025@ix.netcom.com">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<p>Thank you Buck for settling this matter. Wish that I could
spend time going through the archives!</p>
<p>Ken Tisdale<br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 3/8/2020 12:30 PM, Buck Trippel
via Tigers wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:006201d5f577$9bac2080$d3046180$@verizon.net">
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<p class="MsoNormal">The best and most authoritative answers
to the why the Tiger was discontinued that I???ve found are in
the collection of Papworth papers housed in the Culture
Coventry Archive at the Herbert Museum in Coventry.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p>??</o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Mr Papworth was a very high level
???planner??? for Rootes. He reported to a very select group,
comprised mainly of family members who were the heart of the
Rootes board. After his retirement he donated thousands(?)
of pages of notes and memos. I???ve spent several days reading
them and want to go back. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p>??</o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Mr. Papworth lays out a very
comprehensive Tiger story. The Tiger represented only 2% of
Rootes??? sales and was consequentially just a blip on
management???s attention. Tigers were barely mentioned in
board meetings as the high production Imps and Hillmans
dominated the discussions. The Mk1s & 1As sold well. The
Mk2 that was built was not the Mk2 that the engineers had
designed and tested (with upgraded 5-bolt 14??? wheels to fit
4-wheel discs, the same 3-puck calipers used on Aston
Martins and street Cobras) and the resulting lack of initial
sales seemed to be the straw that broke the camel???s back.
But Papworth also outlines other contributing issues.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p>??</o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Rootes engineers determined that Chrysler
V8s would not fit in a Tiger. They explored alternatives
including one that would have been built a new ???Tiger??? with
fiberglass body in the USA. Obviously none of those
alternatives worked out.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p>??</o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">After Lord Rootes passed away his
brother, Reggie, assumed control. Reggie wanted to replace
the Alpine/Tiger with a smaller sportscar that was similar
to a Spitfire. That car, ???Apex???, had been designed and was
very close to production when a sub-contractor tripled the
initial cost estimate for its fiberglass body. That ended
Rootes??? attempt at a replacement sportscar.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p>??</o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">The US government had long imposed
standards for the cars it purchased for government use ??? the
GSA standards. These existing GSA standards were eventually
adopted for all cars sold in the US. The Alpine/Tiger
platform would have needed upgrades to comply. Tooling for
these would have been costly on a per unit basis due to low
production volume. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p>??</o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">The space used at Pressed Steel to build
the Alpines and Tigers was needed by another Rootes vehicle
which was high production and therefore a higher priority.
Assuming Rootes would accept the cost of upgrades to comply
with GSA standards, where could the Alpine/Tiger be built?
Rootes looked at alternatives including moving the entire
Alpine/Tiger production from Pressed Steel to Jensen. At one
point Rootes even offered to purchase Jensen. Jensen
refused. The move never happened. Rootes never found an
alternate contractor to build the cars.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p>??</o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Papworth cites all of these factors in
the decision to end Tiger production.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p>??</o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Buck Trippel<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p>??</o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Tigers <a
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:tigers-bounces@autox.team.net";
moz-do-not-send="true"><tigers-bounces@autox.team.net></a>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Ross Hulse via Tigers<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Sunday, March 8, 2020 1:57 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Curt Bowland <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:cbowland@msn.com";
moz-do-not-send="true"><cbowland@msn.com></a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> tigers <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:tigers@autox.team.net";
moz-do-not-send="true"><tigers@autox.team.net></a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Tigers] Urban legend<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p>??</o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:24.0pt;font-family:"Times New
Roman",serif">The demise of the Sunbeam Tiger was
that they did not sell very well.?? The USA import regs
for cars would require expensive modifications to the
car.?? So in February 1967 the decision was made to
finish the cars that were in the line and send them to
Canada.?? Everything about not fitting a Chrysler
engine is just a</span>??<span
style="font-size:24.0pt;font-family:"Times New
Roman",serif">rumor.??</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p>??</o:p></p>
</div>
<br>
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<pre class="moz-quote-pre"
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</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
Ken Tisdale
303-807-5488</pre>
<br>
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<pre class="moz-quote-pre"
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