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[Shop-talk] Garage design help / decisions

To: shop-talk@autox.team.net
Subject: [Shop-talk] Garage design help / decisions
From: Mark Andy <mark@sccaprepared.com>
Date: Thu, 7 May 2009 14:41:42 -0400 (EDT)
Howdy,

Ok, I'm looking into options for building a garage.  Due to money, I need 
to do as much of it myself as is reasonable, balanced with timeliness.

Step 1 is to have some plans.  That's the step I'm on.  :-)

Step 2 is to almost certainly pay someone to pour the floor and build the 
exterior shell.  I.e. get the building up, with no electric, plumbing, 
insulation, interior walls, or any non-structural work done, but weather 
tight.

Step 3 is for me to get the rest of the work done.  Step 3 could literally 
take years, though I'd work to get the electric & insulation done 
reasonably quickly.

Anyway, before I can get someone to quote step 2, I need to have plans. 
And me being me and my wife being herself, there isn't an example of "that 
one" I can find on the various ready made plans.  If it were just me, I'd 
probably do it as an (ugly) pole building / steel building which is 
'easy'.  If it were just Laura, she'd probably pick some plans that look 
nice and would look nice with the house (and there are plenty of those 
ready made) but have some functional stuff I don't like.

Currently the closest plan I've found ready made is this one: 
http://justgarageplans.com/63/plan-detail/2303.php

Of course, that has a couple drawbacks... First, the stairwell is in the 
middle of the workspace and I really want it over on the left wall and to 
have no walls between the two garage sections.  Presumably that wall is 
load bearing though, so "just move it" isn't going to fly.

2nd, they seem to be using trusses for the roof / 2nd story on the main 
section and I'd really rather have regular floor joist / rafter 
construction, so that I can make the 2nd story dormer 'functional' as well 
as having a similar dormer (or perhaps shed roof or two smaller dormers) 
on the back roof.  Again though, that's all structural so I don't know if 
that means I'd need a big beam down the center of that section supported 
by posts, etc.

I've talked to an architect about this, and him doing the plans for me 
from scratch along with having a structural engineer size stuff would be 
on the order of $3k to $4k.  And that's at his "friends and family" rate 
of $60/hour not the normal $90/hour (he's the son of our neighbor and 
lives in Seattle as well, so perhaps those rates are higher than is 
typical?)  After talking with him, I'm really wondering if I need the 
architect part of the deal vs. the structural engineer part.  I don't have 
issues designing the building in terms of knowing what I want and being 
able to trade stuff off, my issue is not knowing what the tradeoffs are 
(for instance, is it realistic to have an unsupported in the center beam 
26' long holding up 17' floor joists on either side, coupled with a 
standard rafter roof that's 34' wide at the base?)

If money wasn't an object, there wouldn't be an issue and I could just pay 
the $4k for plans or whatever and I'd be done with that part.  However 
money is very much an issue... In my ideal world I'd be able to get the 
shell built for $15k or less, would be happy to get it done for $20k or 
less, and would probably find a way to pay up to $30k if that's what it 
required.  With that kinda budget, $5k for an architect doesn't seem very 
likely.  Hell, for that matter, with that kinda budget I don't know if 
this is possible if the plans were completely free, but of course I can't 
know that until I get some estimates from builders which I can't do 
without plans.

Anyway... If anyone is or knows a structural engineer, that'd be super 
useful.  It'd totally be worth paying for a couple hours of time to have 
them say "yeah, that won't add much to the costs so quote the plan as is" 
or "you're smoking the crack" or whatever.

Thanks!

Mark

(Oh, I live in Youngstown, OH.  There's no zoning here to worry about, but 
I haven't yet called the permit office to find out what they require in 
terms of drawings for a new garage either).
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