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Re: [Healeys] Fwd: Recent 100M on BAT

To: Jean Caron <vintage_roadster_restoration@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Healeys] Fwd: Recent 100M on BAT
From: HealeyRick <healeyrik@gmail.com>
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2023 12:40:58 -0500
Cc: AH Mail List <healeys@autox.team.net>
Delivered-to: mharc@autox.team.net
Delivered-to: healeys@autox.team.net
References: <PH7P221MB1007886F0723E0EFEFCB78C3D48CA@PH7P221MB1007.NAMP221.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM> <39821d9b-ea7b-4a53-b698-d3563d874793@comcast.net> <CAGfzsZdUxjxb4Z3aPT5RgKzxT7tRj435g_nHJQ2z3Vq19sFZ4g@mail.gmail.com> <4f3a085a-8c16-470e-9cc2-618fb1cfed07@comcast.net> <1702665116940.1168058.8a006dc4664b73b32cc87c61b96c39d275336eb9@spica.telekom.de> <CAB3i7LLe1eYzRUztKOcVcRT=WK_8QcHNBA5WR85gKvX7d=hT=g@mail.gmail.com> <CAGfzsZeWtZqBCny4vMn5jbddH0sat3+ZZixEv64JSc_XnXj3xg@mail.gmail.com> <CAGfzsZdMeDsRpXWxJ_E0a6RF6d1LUrVPiFz8LjjH9krh5ASiEQ@mail.gmail.com> <DS7PR11MB60785261A20922C7A9C8B92CD192A@DS7PR11MB6078.namprd11.prod.outlook.com>
--===============1180725651520332116==

--000000000000aeb4cc060ca40563
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Hi Jean,

I'm really glad to hear the Registry will continue. As you point out it
serves a valuable service and has helped ferret out some bogus cars.

Happy Healeydays,
Rick Neville

On Sat, Dec 16, 2023 at 12:25=E2=80=AFPM Jean Caron <
vintage_roadster_restoration@hotmail.com> wrote:

> Rick,
> No doubt that individuals were able to identify an "M" before and they
> will continue to do so in the future. What the Worldwide 100M Registry is
> doing is provide a potential buyer, the means to identify with a high
> degree of certainty that a given car is a genuine 100M or one that has be=
en
> dealer optioned or modified later one. The Registry has also been able to=
,
> in some cases, prevent a possible purchaser to be defrauded by an
> unscrupulous seller claiming that the car on offer was a genuine 100M.
> Given the level of interest to factory 100M offered for sale from time to
> time on Bring-a-Trailer, I would definitely say that the genuine factory
> still command a very high level of interest and so far, command an extra
> premium over a regular 100.
> As far as the Worldwide 100M Registry is concerned, it will be continued,
> an announcement will be forthcoming soon.
>
> Jean
> ------------------------------
> *From:* Healeys <healeys-bounces@autox.team.net> on behalf of HealeyRick =
<
> healeyrik@gmail.com>
> *Sent:* December 16, 2023 9:29 AM
> *To:* Healeys <healeys@autox.team.net>
> *Subject:* [Healeys] Fwd: Recent 100M on BAT
>
>
>
>
>
> Hi Michael,
>
> I know Bill Meade was trying to include the Registry along with the sale
> of his M., but the new owner wasn't interested. IMHO, more of an ass ache
> than an asset. Getting someone to take it on might be a problem, but peop=
le
> were able to identify factory Ms before the registry and will be able to =
do
> so in the future if the registry fades away
>
> Happy Healeydays,
> Rick Neville
>
>
> <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=3Demail&utm_source=3Dlink&utm=
_campaign=3Dsig-email&utm_content=3Dwebmail>
> Virus-free.www.avast.com
> <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=3Demail&utm_source=3Dlink&utm=
_campaign=3Dsig-email&utm_content=3Dwebmail>
> <#m_-4781314674023849355_x_m_-6362713109296590600_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8=
-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
>
> On Fri, Dec 15, 2023 at 5:16=E2=80=AFPM Michael Salter <michaelsalter@gma=
il.com>
> wrote:
>
> I'm not an "M" guy really because as someone mentioned there isn't that
> much to hanging the "modification " parts on any 100.
> If the "M" designation involved significant performance modifications,
> say like an "M" series BMW, which could not be easily copied, then I woul=
d
> consider them be very special.
> I understand that Mr Meade has now sold his "M" so would not be surprised
> to see the "Registry" fade away.
> Just my opinion.
>
> M
>
> On Fri., Dec. 15, 2023, 1:59 p.m. josef-eckert--- via Healeys, <
> healeys@autox.team.net> wrote:
>
> What makes a 100M?
> Very good question and not easy to answer.
>
> In my opinion, an Austin-Healey 100M, especially as the price category is=
 significantly higher than the normal 100,
> is a car that any modification reduces its value. A heavily modified 100M=
 is nothing special. It's a modified 100 and
> no longer an M. But this is my personal opinion. A new chassis would be s=
uch a major modification for me, as would a
> conversion to disc brakes at the front or a conversion to a Weber carbure=
ttors, etc. This would be simply no longer a
> Genuine 100M. I would then rather buy an original Austin-Healey 100 for t=
he same money. But I have to admit, for me
> the hype surrounding the 100M is far exaggerated for what the car is. It'=
s a special model with a little more
> horsepower, but not anything particularly special. Its like an Alpina BMW=
 or a AMG Mercedes.
>
> Josef Eckert
> Germany
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original-Nachricht-----
>
> Betreff: Re: [Healeys] Recent 100M on BAT
>
> Datum: 2023-12-15T18:07:16+0100
>
> Von: "Bob Spidell" <bspidell@comcast.net>
>
> An: "HealeyRick" <healeyrik@gmail.com>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Note the Registry will also certify 'Le Mans Conversions,' which may be
> what Kent's nasty is/was. Some have noted you can build a 'better M' with
> aftermarket parts (Isky cam, alloy head, SBC, etc.).
>
> I don't think either Kilmartin or Jules makes a 100 chassis, but I'd be
> somewhat more sympathetic to that, but not so much hanging an M body and
> parts on a BN1 (a BN2, *maybe*). The main problem I see is an earnest
> owner may sell a conversion (aka 'counterfeit') with full disclosure, but
> an owner or two down the road the 'Tribute' tag has been conveniently
> forgotten (I'm not all in on 'tribute' anything, be they cars or rock
> bands).
>
>
> On 12/15/2023 7:17 AM, HealeyRick wrote:
>
> This is all hypothesis based on speculation so take it with that caveat.
> Let's say one had a rusty factory 100M that was so bad it needed a new
> frame.  How hard would it be to transfer the 100M body parts over to a
> solid BN1 chassis along with the oh-so-valuable chassis plate? The 100M
> Registry seems to focus mostly on the original body parts and cockpit
> surrounds to certify a car. Even cars with non-original engines have been
> registered. I'm pretty certain Kent Lacy's Nasty M was on the registry. S=
o
> is the BaT car still an M?  Some pretty valuable race cars have been
> crashed and fitted with new chassis and still bring big money at auction.
>
> To me, what makes an M an M is the motor.  If an M no longer has its
> original motor, or equal replacement, it has lost its character as an M.
> Otherwise, it's a BN2 with a louvered hood. It's almost like if a Sunbeam
> Tiger blew its motor and it was replaced with an Alpine motor. Sure, it's
> got the right serial number on the unibody, but it's not much of a Tiger
> anymore. The BaT car with what appears to be non-original carbs and
> distributor caused me concern. Who would remove those from an original M
> motor? C'mon 100M sellers, pop the valve cover, remove the rockers and pu=
t
> a dial indicator on the pushrods so we can see if there is still a 100M c=
am
> in the lump!
>
> Happy Healeydays,
> Rick Neville
>
> On Thu, Dec 14, 2023 at 1:05=E2=80=AFPM Bob Spidell <bspidell@comcast.net=
> wrote:
>
> Excellent report, thank you.
>
> I was one of the commenters on BaT--I joined BaT to comment--but, since I
> have a BN2/100M I'm not familiar with BN1 differences and could only poin=
t
> out obvious differences with my car (which was completely original as far
> as I can tell, except for extensive body work). One thing that was somewh=
at
> disturbing to me is that the Registry certified this car, while noting so=
me
> major anomalies (the carbs, for instance, looked to be new and didn't hav=
e
> the hand scribing like my car).
>
> The other thing that interested me is, how do you value this car? Yes,
> it's a very nice car, probably a good driver but, IMO, its value *should*
> be less than a comparably restored, original BN1 or BN2. And, what did th=
e
> previous owner know, or should have known about this car? How do you
> present it for sale; as a BN1 with 'M bits?' It would need the proverbial
> asterisk alongside the page title.
>
> Bob
>
>
>
> On 12/14/2023 8:15 AM, S and T Miller wrote:
>
> If you were following it recently,  you might find my observations
> interesting.  So I went down to Michael's motor cars to help him determin=
e
> if the 100m indeed has a BN1 chassis. Here is what I found.
>
> It has the BN1 inner fenders with the rolled pressings. It has the BN1
> front brake hose frame mount the is less pronounced welded BN1 bracket, a=
s
> the later cars have a bolted on bracket. The front shock towers have no
> evidence of being replaced and show the factory welds. The gearbox mount
> shows non-original/factory welds as if it were replaced to accommodate th=
e
> BN2 mount.
>
> What I found most interesting is that where a BN1 has two OD relays
> mounted under the dash, it took shining a light it different directions t=
o
> just make out the slight evidence of filled holes (4 of then for the two
> relays). And I was able to reach inside the vent just below that area wit=
h
> my fingers and feel the welds and welding wire that was used to fill thos=
e
> 4 holes. I can tell you someone took great care to try and make those hol=
es
> seem as they never existed.  Along with that, where a BN2 would have the
> single OD relay attached to the firewall with machine screws screwed into
> welded captive nuts on the firewall,  you can see plain sheet screws were
> used to mount it in what would be a BN2 relay position.
>
> I also feel the engine tag is a repo because of the lighter stamping.
> Originals tend to have the numbers/ letters stamped with a deeper end
> result.  I took my repo engine tag along to compare, and they appeared
> identical in the stampings. The body/ bath tag and VIN plate appear
> original. Now that doesn't mean that the engine isn't the correct M engin=
e,
> because there could be many reasons why the engine tag was replaced. Anyo=
ne
> who drove a stock 100 compared to a 100M can attest to the difference in
> power, and Mike stated that it indeed has that M power.
>
> The boot lid shows no evidence of the stay bracket being swapped off
> another lid, and if you look closely you can see that the boot shows some
> previous age/life. I'd believe it to be original. I could not make out an=
y
> evidence of the bonnet number being sliced in from a M bonnet, but I will
> say that the underside of the bonnet seemed suspiciously clean and
> prestine. I couldn't detect any age like the boot, but that would be for
> someone else to decide.
>
> Mike had asked me if the cold air box was original,  and I simply don't
> have that experience to know. I have anyways heard if it looks old, it's
> original.  It does indeed look to have some age, so?
>
> I feel at some point in this car's life someone went to some effort to tr=
y
> and conceal that these 100M parts were reinstalled on a BN1 chassis.
> Another interesting note is that there was an attempt to fill the holes
> where a BN1 chassis plate is fitted on the frame rail. Perhaps the person
> didn't realize that the holes continued over to the BN2's, and thought th=
ey
> were erasing evidence of a BN1 chassis?
>
> With all that said, Mike is simply trying to represent the car correctly.
> The car is a very nice car! Paint is very nice, car is straight, and gaps
> look good. Interior is very nice, and looks to be a very good car all
> around. I didn't drive the car, but Mike has years of experience under hi=
s
> belt, so I'd trust his opinions on that. With the quality of the
> restoration,  it is surprising that the front frame to shroud brackets we=
re
> not welded to the frame. Chrome looks good, and I'd think winning some
> trophies at a popular vote car would not be an issue.
>
> The Millers
>
> "Always drive them, but remember each drive in an antique car is a test
> drive."
>
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--000000000000aeb4cc060ca40563
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">Hi Jean,<div><br></div><div>I&#39;m really glad to hear th=
e Registry will continue. As you point out it serves a valuable service and=
 has helped ferret out some bogus cars.=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>Happ=
y Healeydays,</div><div>Rick Neville</div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quo=
te"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sat, Dec 16, 2023 at 12:25=E2=
=80=AFPM Jean Caron &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:vintage_roadster_restoration@hotm=
ail.com">vintage_roadster_restoration@hotmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><=
blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-l=
eft:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div class=3D"msg-47813146=
74023849355">




<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color=
:rgb(0,0,0)">
Rick,</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color=
:rgb(0,0,0)">
No doubt that individuals were able to identify an &quot;M&quot; before and=
 they will continue to do so in the future. What the Worldwide 100M Registr=
y is doing is provide a potential buyer, the means to identify with a high =
degree of certainty that a given car is a
 genuine 100M or one that has been dealer optioned or modified later one. T=
he Registry has also been able to, in some cases, prevent a possible purcha=
ser to be defrauded by an unscrupulous seller claiming that the car on offe=
r was a genuine 100M.=C2=A0</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color=
:rgb(0,0,0)">
Given the level of interest to factory 100M offered for sale from time to t=
ime on Bring-a-Trailer, I would definitely say that the genuine factory sti=
ll command a very high level of interest and so far, command an extra premi=
um over a regular 100.=C2=A0</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color=
:rgb(0,0,0)">
As far as the Worldwide 100M Registry is concerned, it will be continued, a=
n announcement will be forthcoming soon.</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color=
:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color=
:rgb(0,0,0)">
Jean</div>
<div id=3D"m_-4781314674023849355appendonsend"></div>
<hr style=3D"display:inline-block;width:98%">
<div id=3D"m_-4781314674023849355divRplyFwdMsg" dir=3D"ltr"><font face=3D"C=
alibri, sans-serif" style=3D"font-size:11pt" color=3D"#000000"><b>From:</b>=
 Healeys &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:healeys-bounces@autox.team.net"; target=3D"_b=
lank">healeys-bounces@autox.team.net</a>&gt; on behalf of HealeyRick &lt;<a=
 href=3D"mailto:healeyrik@gmail.com"; target=3D"_blank">healeyrik@gmail.com<=
/a>&gt;<br>
<b>Sent:</b> December 16, 2023 9:29 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Healeys &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:healeys@autox.team.net"; target=3D"=
_blank">healeys@autox.team.net</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Healeys] Fwd: Recent 100M on BAT</font>
<div>=C2=A0</div>
</div>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr"><br>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr"><br>
</div>
<br>
<br>
<div dir=3D"ltr">Hi Michael,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I know Bill Meade was trying to include the Registry along with the sa=
le of his M., but the new owner wasn&#39;t interested. IMHO, more of an ass=
 ache than an asset. Getting someone to take it on might be a problem, but =
people were able to identify factory
 Ms before the registry and will be able to do so in the future if the regi=
stry fades away</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Happy Healeydays,</div>
<div>Rick Neville</div>
</div>
<div id=3D"m_-4781314674023849355x_m_-6362713109296590600DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB=
-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2"><br>
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<tr>
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" height=3D"29" style=3D"width: 46px; height: 29px;" src=3D"https://s-insta=
ll.avcdn.net/ipm/preview/icons/icon-envelope-tick-round-orange-animated-no-=
repeat-v1.gif"></a></td>
<td style=3D"width:470px;padding-top:12px;color:rgb(65,66,78);font-size:13p=
x;font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;line-height:18px">
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</table>
<a href=3D"#m_-4781314674023849355_x_m_-6362713109296590600_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-4=
0BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2" width=3D"1" height=3D"1"></a></div>
<br>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">On Fri, Dec 15, 2023 at 5:16=E2=80=AFPM Michael Salter &lt=
;<a href=3D"mailto:michaelsalter@gmail.com"; target=3D"_blank">michaelsalter=
@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204=
,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir=3D"auto">I&#39;m not an &quot;M&quot; guy really because as someon=
e mentioned there isn&#39;t that much to hanging the &quot;modification &qu=
ot; parts on any 100.=C2=A0
<div dir=3D"auto">If the &quot;M&quot; designation involved significant per=
formance modifications,=C2=A0 say like an &quot;M&quot; series BMW, which c=
ould not be easily copied, then I would consider them be very special.
<div dir=3D"auto">I understand that Mr Meade has now sold his &quot;M&quot;=
 so would not be surprised to see the &quot;Registry&quot; fade away.</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">Just my opinion.=C2=A0</div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">M</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">On Fri., Dec. 15, 2023, 1:59 p.m. josef-eckert--- via Heal=
eys, &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:healeys@autox.team.net"; target=3D"_blank">healey=
s@autox.team.net</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204=
,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<pre id=3D"m_-4781314674023849355x_m_-6362713109296590600m_6738733271916364=
601m_-8948067483587624533tw-target-text" dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"text-align:le=
ft"><span lang=3D"en" style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:arial,helvetica,s=
ans-serif">What makes a 100M? <br>Very good question and not easy to answer=
.<br><br>In my opinion, an Austin-Healey 100M, especially as the price cate=
gory is significantly higher than the normal 100, <br>is a car that any mod=
ification reduces its value. A heavily modified 100M is nothing special. It=
&#39;s a modified 100 and <br>no longer an M. But this is my personal opini=
on. A new chassis would be such a major modification for me, as would a <br=
>conversion to disc brakes at the front or a conversion to a Weber carburet=
tors, etc. This would be simply no longer a <br>Genuine 100M. I would then =
rather buy an original Austin-Healey 100 for the same money. But I have to =
admit, for me <br>the hype surrounding the 100M is far exaggerated for what=
 the car is. It&#39;s a special model with a little more <br>horsepower, bu=
t not anything particularly special. Its like an Alpina BMW or a AMG Merced=
es.<br><br>Josef Eckert<br>Germany<br></span></pre>
<p style=3D"margin:0px"><span style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-ser=
if;font-size:10pt;color:rgb(0,0,0);text-decoration:none">=C2=A0</span></p>
<p style=3D"margin:0px"><span style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-ser=
if;font-size:10pt;color:rgb(0,0,0);text-decoration:none">=C2=A0</span></p>
<p style=3D"margin:0px">=C2=A0</p>
<p style=3D"margin:0px">=C2=A0</p>
<p style=3D"margin:0px">-----Original-Nachricht-----</p>
<p style=3D"margin:0px">Betreff: Re: [Healeys] Recent 100M on BAT</p>
<p style=3D"margin:0px">Datum: 2023-12-15T18:07:16+0100</p>
<p style=3D"margin:0px">Von: &quot;Bob Spidell&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
bspidell@comcast.net" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">bspidell@comcast=
.net</a>&gt;</p>
<p style=3D"margin:0px">An: &quot;HealeyRick&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:he=
aleyrik@gmail.com" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">healeyrik@gmail.com=
</a>&gt;</p>
<p style=3D"margin:0px">=C2=A0</p>
<p style=3D"margin:0px">=C2=A0</p>
<p style=3D"margin:0px">=C2=A0</p>
<div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font:12px Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">Note t=
he Registry will also certify &#39;Le Mans Conversions,&#39; which may be w=
hat Kent&#39;s nasty is/was. Some have noted you can build a &#39;better M&=
#39; with aftermarket parts (Isky cam, alloy head, SBC,
 etc.). <br>
<br>
I don&#39;t think either Kilmartin or Jules makes a 100 chassis, but I&#39;=
d be somewhat more sympathetic to that, but not so much hanging an M body a=
nd parts on a BN1 (a BN2,
<em>maybe</em>). The main problem I see is an earnest owner may sell a conv=
ersion (aka &#39;counterfeit&#39;) with full disclosure, but an owner or tw=
o down the road the &#39;Tribute&#39; tag has been conveniently forgotten (=
I&#39;m not all in on &#39;tribute&#39; anything, be they cars
 or rock bands).<br>
<br>
<br>
<div>On 12/15/2023 7:17 AM, HealeyRick wrote:</div>
<blockquote>
<div dir=3D"ltr">This is all hypothesis based on speculation so take it wit=
h that caveat.=C2=A0 Let&#39;s say one had a rusty factory 100M that was so=
 bad it needed a new frame.=C2=A0 How hard would it be to transfer the 100M=
 body parts over to a solid BN1 chassis along with
 the oh-so-valuable chassis plate? The 100M Registry seems to focus mostly =
on the original body parts and cockpit surrounds to certify a car. Even car=
s with non-original engines have been registered. I&#39;m pretty certain Ke=
nt Lacy&#39;s Nasty M was on the registry.
 So is the BaT car still an M?=C2=A0 Some pretty valuable race cars have be=
en crashed and fitted with=C2=A0new chassis and still bring big money at au=
ction.=C2=A0
<div>=C2=A0</div>
<div>To me, what makes an M an M is the motor.=C2=A0 If an M no longer has =
its original motor, or equal replacement, it has lost its character as an M=
. Otherwise, it&#39;s a BN2 with a louvered hood. It&#39;s almost like if a=
 Sunbeam Tiger blew its motor and it was replaced
 with an Alpine motor. Sure, it&#39;s got the right serial number on the un=
ibody, but it&#39;s not much of a Tiger anymore. The BaT car with what appe=
ars to be non-original carbs and distributor caused me concern. Who would r=
emove those from an original M motor? C&#39;mon
 100M sellers, pop the valve cover, remove the rockers and put a dial indic=
ator on the pushrods so we can see if there is still a 100M cam in the lump=
!</div>
<div>
<div>=C2=A0</div>
<div>Happy Healeydays,</div>
<div>Rick Neville</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">On Thu, Dec 14, 2023 at 1:05=E2=80=AFPM Bob Spidell &lt;<a=
 href=3D"mailto:bspidell@comcast.net"; rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">=
bspidell@comcast.net</a>&gt; wrote:</div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204=
,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>Excellent report, thank you. <br>
<br>
I was one of the commenters on BaT--I joined BaT to comment--but, since I h=
ave a BN2/100M I&#39;m not familiar with BN1 differences and could only poi=
nt out obvious differences with my car (which was completely original as fa=
r as I can tell, except for extensive
 body work). One thing that was somewhat disturbing to me is that the Regis=
try certified this car, while noting some major anomalies (the carbs, for i=
nstance, looked to be new and didn&#39;t have the hand scribing like my car=
).
<br>
<br>
The other thing that interested me is, how do you value this car? Yes, it&#=
39;s a very nice car, probably a good driver but, IMO, its value
<em>should</em> be less than a comparably restored, original BN1 or BN2. An=
d, what did the previous owner know, or should have known about this car? H=
ow do you present it for sale; as a BN1 with &#39;M bits?&#39; It would nee=
d the proverbial asterisk alongside the
 page title.<br>
<br>
Bob<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<div>On 12/14/2023 8:15 AM, S and T Miller wrote:</div>
<blockquote>
<div style=3D"font-family:inherit;font-size:inherit;color:inherit;backgroun=
d-color:transparent">
<div>If you were following it recently,=C2=A0 you might find my observation=
s interesting.=C2=A0 So I went down to Michael&#39;s motor cars to help him=
 determine if the 100m indeed has a BN1 chassis. Here is what I found.</div=
>
<div>=C2=A0</div>
<div>It has the BN1 inner fenders with the rolled pressings. It has the BN1=
 front brake hose frame mount the is less pronounced welded BN1 bracket, as=
 the later cars have a bolted on bracket. The front shock towers have no ev=
idence of being replaced and show
 the factory welds. The gearbox mount shows non-original/factory welds as i=
f it were replaced to accommodate the BN2 mount.=C2=A0</div>
<div>=C2=A0</div>
<div>What I found most interesting is that where a BN1 has two OD relays mo=
unted under the dash, it took shining a light it different directions to ju=
st make out the slight evidence of filled holes (4 of then for the two rela=
ys). And I was able to reach inside
 the vent just below that area with my fingers and feel the welds and weldi=
ng wire that was used to fill those 4 holes. I can tell you someone took gr=
eat care to try and make those holes seem as they never existed.=C2=A0 Alon=
g with that, where a BN2 would have the
 single OD relay attached to the firewall with machine screws screwed into =
welded captive nuts on the firewall,=C2=A0 you can see plain sheet screws w=
ere used to mount it in what would be a BN2 relay position.=C2=A0</div>
<div>=C2=A0</div>
<div>I also feel the engine tag is a repo because of the lighter stamping. =
Originals tend to have the numbers/ letters stamped with a deeper end resul=
t.=C2=A0 I took my repo engine tag along to compare, and they appeared iden=
tical in the stampings. The body/ bath
 tag and VIN plate appear original. Now that doesn&#39;t mean that the engi=
ne isn&#39;t the correct M engine, because there could be many reasons why =
the engine tag was replaced. Anyone who drove a stock 100 compared to a 100=
M can attest to the difference in power,
 and Mike stated that it indeed has that M power.=C2=A0</div>
<div>=C2=A0</div>
<div>The boot lid shows no evidence of the stay bracket being swapped off a=
nother lid, and if you look closely you can see that the boot shows some pr=
evious age/life. I&#39;d believe it to be original. I could not make out an=
y evidence of the bonnet number being
 sliced in from a M bonnet, but I will say that the underside of the bonnet=
 seemed suspiciously clean and prestine. I couldn&#39;t detect any age like=
 the boot, but that would be for someone else to decide.=C2=A0</div>
<div>=C2=A0</div>
<div>Mike had asked me if the cold air box was original,=C2=A0 and I simply=
 don&#39;t have that experience to know. I have anyways heard if it looks o=
ld, it&#39;s original.=C2=A0 It does indeed look to have some age, so?</div=
>
<div>=C2=A0</div>
<div>I feel at some point in this car&#39;s life someone went to some effor=
t to try and conceal that these 100M parts were reinstalled on a BN1 chassi=
s. Another interesting note is that there was an attempt to fill the holes =
where a BN1 chassis plate is fitted
 on the frame rail. Perhaps the person didn&#39;t realize that the holes co=
ntinued over to the BN2&#39;s, and thought they were erasing evidence of a =
BN1 chassis?=C2=A0</div>
<div>=C2=A0</div>
<div>With all that said, Mike is simply trying to represent the car correct=
ly. The car is a very nice car! Paint is very nice, car is straight, and ga=
ps look good. Interior is very nice, and looks to be a very good car all ar=
ound. I didn&#39;t drive the car, but
 Mike has years of experience under his belt, so I&#39;d trust his opinions=
 on that. With the quality of the restoration,=C2=A0 it is surprising that =
the front frame to shroud brackets were not welded to the frame. Chrome loo=
ks good, and I&#39;d think winning some trophies
 at a popular vote car would not be an issue.=C2=A0</div>
</div>
<div>=C2=A0</div>
<div>The Millers<br>
=C2=A0<br>
&quot;Always drive them, but remember each drive in an antique car is a tes=
t drive.&quot;</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
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