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Michael,
Sounds like you're implying the O-ringed accumulator is superior to the
metal ring (OEM) type? Wish I'd known about it when I rebuilt my O/D (I
bought the DWM 'uprated' accumulator).
I'll throw out another, very unlikely, potential cause: the cone clutch
could be stuck together. I've heard of this happening, but have never
experienced it my self--nor has anyone I know--but it's theoretically
possible (esp. if the clutch is excessively worn). Could this be the
reason the manual is adamant about replacing the 8 strong springs, of
two lengths, that oppose the operating pistons on overhaul, regardless
if they still seem robust?
On 4/17/2022 9:31 AM, Michael Salter via Healeys wrote:
> Simon,
> Based upon your synopsis I conclude that the operating valve is NOT
> opening when either the solenoid lever or the setting lever is being
> moved to the position where the operating valve ball would normally be
> lifted off its seat.
> This conclusion is based upon your discovery that the pressure in the
> accumulator, as indicated on the gauge, does not leak away overnight.
> There is a small clearance between the operating valve push rod and
> the overdrive housing. If the operating valve ball was indeed lifted
> off its seat all the oil in the accumulator would, over time, leak
> past the operating rod thus discharge the accumulator.
> This process would indeed take some time but would certainly
> completely relieve most, if not all the residual accumulator pressure
> overnight.
> If however the operating valve ball is still in contact with its seat
> (i.e. not being lifted) the oil pressure would not reach the small
> clearance between the valve push rod and the housing and, other than
> past the accumulator rings there is nowhere for that pressure to be
> relieved.
> I would presume that Overdrive Spares installed an accumulator with an
> "O" ring rather than the original cast iron rings. If the original
> type accumulator piston was still fitted, oil would seep past the cast
> iron rings to relieve the pressure, albeit very slowly, and again the
> accumulator pressure would be discharged overnight..
> The cam on the operating shaft, the one which lifts the operating
> valve push rod and thus the operating valve ball, is locked to the
> shaft with a small taper pin. I would guess that the taper pin has
> either fallen out or sheared.
> Bad news is that this pin cannot be accessed without removing and
> disassembling the overdrive.
>
> M
>
> On Sat, Apr 16, 2022 at 1:19 PM Simon Lachlan via Healeys
> <healeys@autox.team.net> wrote:
>
> My OD is driving me mad and I definitely need some inspired
> advice. A bit of background first. Iâ??ll try to lay out all the
> facts in a logical sequence. (Iâ??m increasingly reluctant to link
> ODs with logic!)
>
> 1. Iâ??d say that the OD has done +/- 15k miles since a total
> rebuild by Overdrive Spares here in UK.
> 2. The OD had issues before Christmas (21) and was sorted out by
> OD Spares. The accumulator was uprated and pressure issues sorted.
> 3. OD functioned 100% on the few times Iâ??d been able to take it
> out since then until..
> 4. One day, the OD stopped functioning.
> 5. I checked the electrics. All fine there so I delved a bit deeper.
> 6. It had fried its solenoid which I replaced. Butâ?¦
> 7. That did not fix the problem soâ?¦
> 8. I decided that the operating valveâ??s adjustment might be off so..
> 9. I bought a dial gauge and hoped to sort it out precisely
> rather than by â??feelâ??, which I lack in this area.
> 10. Prior to using the gauge I decided to see if the OD was
> functioning at all so I raised the car on stands and fitted my
> pressure gauge.
> 11. I get a reading of 500psi rising a bit when I rev the engine
> but Iâ??d suppose that would drop when the oil warms up.
> 12. BUT, and this is where things go pear-shapedâ?¦moving the little
> lever on the RHS up and down does not engage/disengage OD.
> There is no change on the gauge to show OD engaging or
> disengaging.
> 13. AND, the gauge stays at 500psi even when the engine is off.
> Moving the lever 20 times has zero effect. Stayed at 500
> overnight!
> 14. Of course, I checked for dirt in the operating valve area. None.
> 15. Likewise, the tiny hole in the â??valve â?? operatingâ?? (the
> spindle thing which the ball sits on)â?¦.thatâ??s clear. And
> surely, the pressure would diminish overnight if something in
> that area was partially obstructed?
> 16. When I remove the pressure valve, thereâ??s a small spillage â??
> no more than youâ??d expect â?? but repeating the pressure gauge
> process only returns the same results.
> 17. I see in the bible according to Norman Nock that â??Holding this
> lever with your thumb and index finger, you should be able to
> push the lever down lightly about â??â?? until you feel a slight
> spring pressure resistance. The lever should go down another
> ¼â?? after encountering the resistanceâ?¦â?¦â?? ie thereâ??s about
> â??â??
> movement up & down in that lever. Well, my lever does move and
> does lift the ball, but thereâ??s not â??â?? movement there. Could
> that be the problem area???
> 18. Almost finishedâ?¦keep reading!
>
> So, Iâ??m stumped. Every time I learn something new about the OD, it
> has a new trick to baffle me.
>
> Iâ??ve no 100% sure way of telling whether itâ??s gone into OD Â and
> stuck there or whether itâ??s simply not going into OD at all.
>
> Iâ??ve done a lot of reading through my books and collection of
> advice from the various gurus and found reference to ODs being
> stuck but those seemed to be to do with â??weak springsâ?? which,
> particularly after a long lay-off, wouldnâ??t disengage. The cure
> for this being a good smack on the steel plate sandwiched in the
> OD from below. Well, that seems to be a stuck mechanism issue
> whereas Iâ??m facing a hydraulic conundrum. Or am I?
>
> There is what is usually referred to as the â??pressure relief
> valveâ?? adjacent to the accumulator. The name suggested that
> pressure might be stuck in that areaâ?¦.but surely not overnight?
>
> Any ideas? I am particularly reluctant to take the gearbox and OD
> out. Youâ??ll recall the ridiculous business of the defective clutch
> kit? Well, I forget whether we had the box in and out 3 times or
> 4. Iâ??d hoped not to do it again so soon or ever for that matter.
>
> Iâ??m hoping for a miracle of course but some sound advice would be
> a godsend����
>
> Thanks,
>
> Simon
>
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Michael, <br>
<br>
Sounds like you're implying the O-ringed accumulator is superior to
the metal ring (OEM) type? Wish I'd known about it when I rebuilt my
O/D (I bought the DWM 'uprated' accumulator).<br>
<br>
I'll throw out another, very unlikely, potential cause: the cone
clutch could be stuck together. I've heard of this happening, but
have never experienced it my self--nor has anyone I know--but it's
theoretically possible (esp. if the clutch is excessively worn).
Could this be the reason the manual is adamant about replacing the 8
strong springs, of two lengths, that oppose the operating pistons on
overhaul, regardless if they still seem robust?<br>
<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 4/17/2022 9:31 AM, Michael Salter
via Healeys wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAB3i7LK3kuvn6iBp696_bShjF--APkBQX+07eBNBmsRQDptW8A@mail.gmail.com">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:small">Simon,</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:small">Based
upon your synopsis I conclude that the operating valve is NOT
opening when either the solenoid lever or the setting lever is
being moved to the position where the operating valve ball
would normally be lifted off its seat.</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:small">This
conclusion is based upon your discovery that the pressure in
the accumulator, as indicated on the gauge, does not leak away
overnight.</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:small">There is
a small clearance between the operating valve push rod and the
overdrive housing. If the operating valve ball was indeed
lifted off its seat all the oil in the accumulator would, over
time, leak past the operating rod thus discharge the
accumulator. <br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:small">This
process would indeed take some time but would certainly
completely relieve most, if not all the residual accumulator
pressure overnight.</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:small">If
however the operating valve ball is still in contact with its
seat (i.e. not being lifted) the oil pressure would not reach
the small clearance between the valve push rod and the housing
and, other than past the accumulator rings there is nowhere
for that pressure to be relieved. <br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:small">I would
presume that Overdrive Spares installed an accumulator with an
"O" ring rather than the original cast iron rings. If the
original type accumulator piston was still fitted, oil would
seep past the cast iron rings to relieve the pressure, albeit
very slowly, and again the accumulator pressure would be
discharged overnight..<br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:small">The cam
on the operating shaft, the one which lifts the operating
valve push rod and thus the operating valve ball, is locked to
the shaft with a small taper pin. I would guess that the taper
pin has either fallen out or sheared. <br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:small">Bad news
is that this pin cannot be accessed without removing and
disassembling the overdrive.</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:small">M<br>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sat, Apr 16, 2022 at 1:19
PM Simon Lachlan via Healeys <<a
href="mailto:healeys@autox.team.net"; moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">healeys@autox.team.net</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div lang="EN-GB">
<div class="gmail-m_3258398681717990986WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal">My OD is driving me mad and I
definitely need some inspired advice. A bit of
background first. Iâ??ll try to lay out all the facts in a
logical sequence. (Iâ??m increasingly reluctant to link
ODs with logic!)</p>
<ol style="margin-top:0cm" type="1" start="1">
<li class="gmail-m_3258398681717990986MsoListParagraph"
style="margin-left:0cm">Iâ??d say that the OD has done
+/- 15k miles since a total rebuild by Overdrive
Spares here in UK.</li>
<li class="gmail-m_3258398681717990986MsoListParagraph"
style="margin-left:0cm">The OD had issues before
Christmas (21) and was sorted out by OD Spares. The
accumulator was uprated and pressure issues sorted.</li>
<li class="gmail-m_3258398681717990986MsoListParagraph"
style="margin-left:0cm">OD functioned 100% on the few
times Iâ??d been able to take it out since then until..</li>
<li class="gmail-m_3258398681717990986MsoListParagraph"
style="margin-left:0cm">One day, the OD stopped
functioning.</li>
<li class="gmail-m_3258398681717990986MsoListParagraph"
style="margin-left:0cm">I checked the electrics. All
fine there so I delved a bit deeper.</li>
<li class="gmail-m_3258398681717990986MsoListParagraph"
style="margin-left:0cm">It had fried its solenoid
which I replaced. Butâ?¦</li>
<li class="gmail-m_3258398681717990986MsoListParagraph"
style="margin-left:0cm">That did not fix the problem
soâ?¦</li>
<li class="gmail-m_3258398681717990986MsoListParagraph"
style="margin-left:0cm">I decided that the operating
valveâ??s adjustment might be off so..</li>
<li class="gmail-m_3258398681717990986MsoListParagraph"
style="margin-left:0cm">I bought a dial gauge and
hoped to sort it out precisely rather than by â??feelâ??,
which I lack in this area.</li>
<li class="gmail-m_3258398681717990986MsoListParagraph"
style="margin-left:0cm">Prior to using the gauge I
decided to see if the OD was functioning at all so I
raised the car on stands and fitted my pressure gauge.</li>
<li class="gmail-m_3258398681717990986MsoListParagraph"
style="margin-left:0cm">I get a reading of 500psi
rising a bit when I rev the engine but Iâ??d suppose
that would drop when the oil warms up.</li>
<li class="gmail-m_3258398681717990986MsoListParagraph"
style="margin-left:0cm">BUT, and this is where things
go pear-shapedâ?¦moving the little lever on the RHS up
and down does not engage/disengage OD. There is no
change on the gauge to show OD engaging or
disengaging.</li>
<li class="gmail-m_3258398681717990986MsoListParagraph"
style="margin-left:0cm">AND, the gauge stays at 500psi
even when the engine is off. Moving the lever 20 times
has zero effect. Stayed at 500 overnight!</li>
<li class="gmail-m_3258398681717990986MsoListParagraph"
style="margin-left:0cm">Of course, I checked for dirt
in the operating valve area. None.</li>
<li class="gmail-m_3258398681717990986MsoListParagraph"
style="margin-left:0cm">Likewise, the tiny hole in the
â??valve â?? operatingâ?? (the spindle thing which the ball
sits on)â?¦.thatâ??s clear. And surely, the pressure would
diminish overnight if something in that area was
partially obstructed?</li>
<li class="gmail-m_3258398681717990986MsoListParagraph"
style="margin-left:0cm">When I remove the pressure
valve, thereâ??s a small spillage â?? no more than youâ??d
expect â?? but repeating the pressure gauge process only
returns the same results.</li>
<li class="gmail-m_3258398681717990986MsoListParagraph"
style="margin-left:0cm">I see in the bible according
to Norman Nock that â??Holding this lever with your
thumb and index finger, you should be able to push the
lever down lightly about â??â?? until you feel a slight
spring pressure resistance. The lever should go down
another ¼â?? after encountering the resistanceâ?¦â?¦â?? ie
thereâ??s about â??â?? movement up & down in that lever.
Well, my lever does move and does lift the ball, but
thereâ??s not â??â?? movement there. Could that be the
problem area???</li>
<li class="gmail-m_3258398681717990986MsoListParagraph"
style="margin-left:0cm">Almost finishedâ?¦keep reading!</li>
</ol>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:18pt">So, Iâ??m
stumped. Every time I learn something new about the OD,
it has a new trick to baffle me.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:18pt">Iâ??ve no 100%
sure way of telling whether itâ??s gone into OD Â and stuck
there or whether itâ??s simply not going into OD at all.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:18pt">Iâ??ve done a
lot of reading through my books and collection of advice
from the various gurus and found reference to ODs being
stuck but those seemed to be to do with â??weak springsâ??
which, particularly after a long lay-off, wouldnâ??t
disengage. The cure for this being a good smack on the
steel plate sandwiched in the OD from below. Well, that
seems to be a stuck mechanism issue whereas Iâ??m facing a
hydraulic conundrum. Or am I?</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:18pt">There is
what is usually referred to as the â??pressure relief
valveâ?? adjacent to the accumulator. The name suggested
that pressure might be stuck in that areaâ?¦.but surely
not overnight?</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:18pt">Â </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:18pt">Any ideas? I
am particularly reluctant to take the gearbox and OD
out. Youâ??ll recall the ridiculous business of the
defective clutch kit? Well, I forget whether we had the
box in and out 3 times or 4. Iâ??d hoped not to do it
again so soon or ever for that matter.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:18pt">Â </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:18pt">Iâ??m hoping
for a miracle of course but some sound advice would be a
godsend����</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:18pt">Â </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:18pt">Thanks,</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:18pt">Simon</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:18pt">Â </p>
</div>
</div>
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