--===============8600306656814039906==
--000000000000ad6a4c05cf5b3a85
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
When I bought the DW "Fast Street" AL head for my 100 about 17 years ago I
installed it using the recommended steel sandwich head gasket and except
for some very small weeping between 2 and 3 when starting from cold I have
not had an issue. In fact I can't remember when I last torqued the head,
if ever! I keep a spare on top of my gas tank under the Armacord--guess I
should dust it off.
I used the Payen composite gaskets on the MG engine of my Elva Courier,
spraying a light coat of copper on both sides before installing. I never
had a blown gasket, leaking, etc, etc. with them. Hope their quality does
not suffer.
On Wed, Oct 27, 2021 at 11:28 AM Bob Spidell <bspidell@comcast.net> wrote:
> The late, great Norman Nock used to recommend a lacquer-like paste called
> 'Wellseal,' esp. for the 4-cyl engines known for leaking between the #2 a=
nd
> #3 cylinders (supposedly, not enough head studs in that area). I've only
> put a few hundred miles on my BN2 since rebuild--with Wellseal--but, so
> far, no sign of a leak.
>
> I 'heard from the grapevine' that Payen off-shored manufacturing to (gues=
s
> where) and quality suffered. I had most of a Payen set I'd bought decades
> ago for my BJ8 and didn't use for whatever reason. I used the head gasket
> on my latest--and hopefully last--overhaul a few years ago; 6K miles and
> still good. If I needed to rebuild again I'd probably spring for the
> composite-metal gasket from DWM; supposedly reusable for up the 3 times.
>
> Bob
>
>
> On 10/27/2021 5:23 AM, m.g.sharp--- via Healeys wrote:
>
> Fred, I can add to Mike=E2=80=99s comment as it is my BT7 we were working=
on. We
> had used the head gasket that came with the head set supplied by MOSS. A=
s
> the engine warmed up I had coolant leaking out almost the entire length o=
f
> the block/head seam, and coming up through several of the head studs. Th=
is
> was not a localized leak and I would describe it as complete failure of t=
he
> gasket as far as the coolant passages are concerned. There was no eviden=
ce
> of oil leakage, but I think I am correct in saying that all but one of th=
e
> oil passages between the head and block are for drainage back down to the
> sump and thus not under pressure. There was no water/steam in the exhaus=
t
> and the car fired evenly (it sounded great!) and no coolant in the
> cylinders after we removed the head, so it looks like just the coolant wa=
s
> leaking. However remember the motor had been running for only about 15 m=
in
> total over several gentle warm/cool cycles. FYI, I use a correct 7 lb ra=
d
> cap.
>
>
>
> On removing the head we could find no evidence of any problem. The gaske=
t
> looked fine, so we really do not know the cause of the failure. This was=
a
> complete rebuild so both the head and the block faces were machined.
>
>
>
> I ordered a =E2=80=9CPremium=E2=80=9D head gasket which was supplied by A=
-H Spares via
> Healey Autofarm here in Ontario (thanks Amanda for the quick service). M=
y
> understanding (i.e., I don=E2=80=99t know for a fact) is that A-H Spares =
has these
> Premium gaskets made and supplies them to others, including MOSS. It is
> pricey and the prices vary, so shop around. Neither Mike nor I could
> discern any visible difference between the =E2=80=9Cregular=E2=80=9D head=
gasket and the
> Premium one (except for the part number), although we did not measure the
> thickness and the material that is sandwiched between the copper/steel
> outer layers may well be a different material or thickness.
>
>
>
> There is much debate about using a gasket dressing or not and I have neve=
r
> seen any actual evidence that using it helps the sealing; it is all
> anecdotal evidence (e.g., =E2=80=9CI have/have not used a head dressing f=
or 40
> years and never had a problem=E2=80=9D). Neither Mike nor I have ever us=
ed a head
> gasket dressing in other rebuilds so although we discussed it we did not
> apply any. Curiously, the MOSS tech expert finally responded to my reque=
st
> to discuss the issue (about a 3 week response time!). He has apparently
> rebuild many Healey engines and always uses a gasket dressing. Take what
> you want from that. He had no explanation or helpful suggestions that Mi=
ke
> and I had not already discussed.
>
>
>
> The head is now torqued down and the rocker shaft is on and torqued. I
> plan to get everything else bolted up this week and will re-start the
> engine, perhaps tomorrow. I=E2=80=99d be grateful if all listers could k=
eep their
> fingers crossed tomorrow in the hopes that positive vibes will compensate
> for any lack of quality in current head gaskets for Healeys.
>
>
>
> BTW, it was two elderly folk and one pretty strong young buck that remove=
d
> the head w/manifolds =E2=80=93 my 30 something friend Dan might be cheese=
d as being
> referred to as elderly! I had lifted the head with manifolds once before
> so knew it could be done, but this was a BT7 and I am unfamiliar with the
> details of a BJ7 engine bay and whether there are any added complications=
.
> I suggest if you lift it with the manifolds, rest the head on top of the
> studs when you lift it and remove the two intake manifold drain pipes, an=
d
> do the same in reverse (as they are a real bugger to get on later) and yo=
u
> would have to lift the head very high when removing if you left them on.
> Frankly, use of an engine lift/chain fall would be safer (but less
> exciting) if you have access to one.
>
>
>
> Stay tuned! Mirek
>
>
>
> *From:* Healeys <healeys-bounces@autox.team.net>
> <healeys-bounces@autox.team.net> *On Behalf Of *Michael Salter
> *Sent:* October 26, 2021 10:24 PM
> *To:* healeys <Healeys@autox.team.net> <Healeys@autox.team.net>
> *Subject:* Re: [Healeys] Head weight
>
>
>
> We are struggling with head gasket problems on a newly rebuilt engine BT7
> engine at present so will be following this discussion closely.
>
> Regarding lifting the head off with the engine in the car.
>
> With the manifolds on we managed reasonably easily with 1 person on each
> side lifting the rear of the head and 1 at the front. Bit of a grunt but
> possible with 3 somewhat elderly folks.
>
>
>
> M
>
>
>
> On Tue., Oct. 26, 2021, 10:15 p.m. Fred Wescoe via Healeys, <
> healeys@autox.team.net> wrote:
>
> Listers,
>
>
>
> It appears that I may have to pull the head (some oil in the radiator
> fluid) on my 66 BJ8 and I may (likely) have to replace the head gasket. =
I
> am going to leave the engine in the car. I have pulled the head of my BJ=
7
> but that was many years ago. I will need help physically (I'm older now)
> to pull the BJ8 head. Does anyone know what the *actual weight* of just
> the head is? I need to determine how many people I need to help me. Of
> course, I will remove everything from the head before pulling it and then
> place a straight edge on the head and block to determine if I have
> additional issues to deal with. Hopefully not but I will check.
>
>
>
> Do I use sealant on the new head gasket and if so what type? One side o=
r
> both sides?
>
>
>
> After the recent discussion on Moss and their prices and quality, what ar=
e
> the thoughts about sources for a good quality head gasket, without being
> gouged. Entering the cold months, I have plenty of time to do this right=
.
> Is there anything I should be on the lookout for, or check before buttoni=
ng
> up things?
>
>
>
> I want to do this just once but I do want to do it completely and
> correctly. So, any words of wisdom are certainly appreciated.
>
>
>
> Thanks as always,
>
>
>
> Fred
>
> 66BJ8
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation $12.75
>
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys
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>
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>
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>
>
--=20
Best--Michael
--000000000000ad6a4c05cf5b3a85
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"color:#3333ff">When =
I bought the DW "Fast=C2=A0 Street" AL head for my 100 about 17 y=
ears ago I installed it using the recommended steel=C2=A0sandwich head gask=
et and except for some very small weeping between 2 and 3 when starting fro=
m cold I have not had an issue.=C2=A0 In fact I can't remember when I l=
ast torqued the head, if ever!=C2=A0 I keep a spare on top of my gas tank u=
nder the Armacord--guess I should dust it off.</div><div class=3D"gmail_def=
ault" style=3D"color:#3333ff"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=
=3D"color:#3333ff">I used the Payen composite gaskets on the MG engine of m=
y Elva Courier, spraying a light coat of copper on both sides before instal=
ling.=C2=A0 I never had a blown gasket, leaking, etc, etc. with them.=C2=A0=
Hope their quality does not suffer.</div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quo=
te"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Wed, Oct 27, 2021 at 11:28 AM =
Bob Spidell <<a href=3D"mailto:bspidell@comcast.net";>bspidell@comcast.ne=
t</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin=
:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"=
>
=20
=20
=20
<div>
The late, great Norman Nock used to recommend a lacquer-like paste
called 'Wellseal,' esp. for the 4-cyl engines known for leaking
between the #2 and #3 cylinders (supposedly, not enough head studs
in that area). I've only put a few hundred miles on my BN2 since
rebuild--with Wellseal--but, so far, no sign of a leak.<br>
<br>
I 'heard from the grapevine' that Payen off-shored manufacturin=
g to
(guess where) and quality suffered. I had most of a Payen set I'd
bought decades ago for my BJ8 and didn't use for whatever reason. I
used the head gasket on my latest--and hopefully last--overhaul a
few years ago; 6K miles and still good. If I needed to rebuild again
I'd probably spring for the composite-metal gasket from DWM;
supposedly reusable for up the 3 times.<br>
<br>
Bob<br>
<br>
<br>
<div>On 10/27/2021 5:23 AM, m.g.sharp--- via
Healeys wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type=3D"cite">
=20
=20
=20
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>Fred,
I can add to Mike=E2=80=99s comment as it is my BT7 we were wor=
king
on.=C2=A0 We had used the head gasket that came with the head s=
et
supplied by MOSS.=C2=A0 As the engine warmed up I had coolant
leaking out almost the entire length of the block/head seam,
and coming up through several of the head studs.=C2=A0 This was
not a localized leak and I would describe it as complete
failure of the gasket as far as the coolant passages are
concerned.=C2=A0 There was no evidence of oil leakage, but I
think I am correct in saying that all but one of the oil
passages between the head and block are for drainage back
down to the sump and thus not under pressure.=C2=A0 There was n=
o
water/steam in the exhaust and the car fired evenly (it
sounded great!) and no coolant in the cylinders after we
removed the head, so it looks like just the coolant was
leaking.=C2=A0 However remember the motor had been running for
only about 15 min total over several gentle warm/cool
cycles.=C2=A0 FYI, I use a correct 7 lb rad cap.<u></u><u></u><=
/span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>On
removing the head we could find no evidence of any problem.=C2=
=A0
The gasket looked fine, so we really do not know the cause
of the failure.=C2=A0 This was a complete rebuild so both the
head and the block faces were machined.<u></u><u></u></span></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>I
ordered a =E2=80=9CPremium=E2=80=9D head gasket which was suppl=
ied by A-H
Spares via Healey Autofarm here in Ontario (thanks Amanda
for the quick service).=C2=A0 My understanding (i.e., I don=E2=
=80=99t
know for a fact) is that A-H Spares has these Premium
gaskets made and supplies them to others, including MOSS.=C2=A0
It is pricey and the prices vary, so shop around.=C2=A0 Neither
Mike nor I could discern any visible difference between the
=E2=80=9Cregular=E2=80=9D head gasket and the Premium one (exce=
pt for the
part number), although we did not measure the thickness and
the material that is sandwiched between the copper/steel
outer layers may well be a different material or thickness.<u><=
/u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>There
is much debate about using a gasket dressing or not and I
have never seen any actual evidence that using it helps the
sealing; it is all anecdotal evidence (e.g., =E2=80=9CI have/ha=
ve
not used a head dressing for 40 years and never had a
problem=E2=80=9D).=C2=A0 Neither Mike nor I have ever used a he=
ad gasket
dressing in other rebuilds so although we discussed it we
did not apply any.=C2=A0 Curiously, the MOSS tech expert finall=
y
responded to my request to discuss the issue (about a 3 week
response time!).=C2=A0 He has apparently rebuild many Healey
engines and always uses a gasket dressing.=C2=A0 Take what you
want from that.=C2=A0 He had no explanation or helpful
suggestions that Mike and I had not already discussed.<u></u><u=
></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>The
head is now torqued down and the rocker shaft is on and
torqued.=C2=A0 I plan to get everything else bolted up this wee=
k
and will re-start the engine, perhaps tomorrow.=C2=A0 I=E2=80=
=99d be
grateful if all listers could keep their fingers crossed
tomorrow in the hopes that positive vibes will compensate
for any lack of quality in current head gaskets for Healeys.<u>=
</u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>BTW,
it was two elderly folk and one pretty strong young buck
that removed the head w/manifolds =E2=80=93 my 30 something fri=
end
Dan might be cheesed as being referred to as elderly!=C2=A0 I h=
ad
lifted the head with manifolds once before so knew it could
be done, but this was a BT7 and I am unfamiliar with the
details of a BJ7 engine bay and whether there are any added
complications.=C2=A0 I suggest if you lift it with the manifold=
s,
rest the head on top of the studs when you lift it and
remove the two intake manifold drain pipes, and do the same
in reverse (as they are a real bugger to get on later) and
you would have to lift the head very high when removing if
you left them on.=C2=A0 Frankly, use of an engine lift/chain fa=
ll
would be safer (but less exciting) if you have access to
one.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>Stay
tuned!=C2=A0 Mirek<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<div style=3D"border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:none=
;border-top:1pt solid rgb(225,225,225);padding:3pt 0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US">From:</span></b><s=
pan lang=3D"EN-US"> Healeys
<a href=3D"mailto:healeys-bounces@autox.team.net"; target=3D"_=
blank"><healeys-bounces@autox.team.net></a> <b>On Behalf Of </b>Micha=
el
Salter<br>
<b>Sent:</b> October 26, 2021 10:24 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> healeys <a href=3D"mailto:Healeys@autox.team.net"; =
target=3D"_blank"><Healeys@autox.team.net></a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Healeys] Head weight<u></u><u></u></span=
></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">We are struggling with head gasket
problems on a newly rebuilt=C2=A0engine BT7 engine at present s=
o
will be following this discussion closely.<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Regarding lifting the head off with the
engine in the car.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">With the manifolds on we managed
reasonably easily with 1 person on each side lifting the
rear of the head and 1 at the front. Bit of a grunt but
possible with 3 somewhat elderly folks.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">M<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Tue., Oct. 26, 2021, 10:15 p.m. Fred
Wescoe via Healeys, <<a href=3D"mailto:healeys@autox.team.=
net" target=3D"_blank">healeys@autox.team.net</a>>
wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bot=
tom:none;border-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;mar=
gin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Listers,<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">It appears that I may have to pull
the head (some oil in the radiator fluid) on my 66 BJ8
and I may (likely) have to replace the head gasket.=C2=A0=
I
am going to leave the engine in the car.=C2=A0 I have
pulled the head of my BJ7 but that was many years
ago.=C2=A0 I will need help physically (I'm older now=
) to
pull the BJ8 head.=C2=A0 Does anyone know what the <b>act=
ual
weight</b> of just the head is?=C2=A0 I need to determi=
ne
how many people I need=C2=A0to help me.=C2=A0 Of course, =
I will
remove everything from the head before pulling it and
then place a straight edge on the head and block to
determine if I have additional issues to deal with.=C2=A0
Hopefully not but I will check.=C2=A0=C2=A0<u></u><u></u>=
</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Do I use sealant=C2=A0on the new hea=
d
gasket and if so what type?=C2=A0 =C2=A0One side or both =
sides?<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">After the recent discussion on Moss
and their prices and quality, what are the thoughts
about sources for a good quality head gasket, without
being gouged.=C2=A0 Entering the cold months, I have plen=
ty
of time to do this right.=C2=A0 Is there anything I shoul=
d
be on the=C2=A0lookout for, or check before buttoning up
things?=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I want to do this just once but I
do want to do it completely and correctly.=C2=A0 So, any
words of wisdom are certainly appreciated.<u></u><u></u><=
/p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thanks as always,<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Fred<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">66BJ8<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<br>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
</div>
_______________________________________________<br>
rer" target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>
<br>
Archive: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys"; rel=3D"noreferre=
r" target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys</a> <a href=3D"h=
ttp://autox.team.net/archive" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://a=
utox.team.net/archive</a><br>
<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:Healeys@autox.team.net"; target=3D"_blank">Healeys@autox.t=
eam.net</a><br>
<a href=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys"; rel=3D"noreferre=
r" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys</a><br>
<br>
s/michael.oritt@gmail.com" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://auto=
x.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/michael.oritt@gmail.com</a><br>
<br>
</blockquote></div><br clear=3D"all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div dir=3D"ltr"=
class=3D"gmail_signature"><font color=3D"#3333ff">Best--Michael</font></di=
v>
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Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys http://autox.team.net/archive
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