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"my 30 something friend Dan might be cheesed as being referred to as
elderly!" .... Sorry Ryan =F0=9F=A4=A3=F0=9F=A4=A3
On Wed., Oct. 27, 2021, 8:23 a.m. , <m.g.sharp@sympatico.ca> wrote:
> Fred, I can add to Mike=E2=80=99s comment as it is my BT7 we were working=
on. We
> had used the head gasket that came with the head set supplied by MOSS. A=
s
> the engine warmed up I had coolant leaking out almost the entire length o=
f
> the block/head seam, and coming up through several of the head studs. Th=
is
> was not a localized leak and I would describe it as complete failure of t=
he
> gasket as far as the coolant passages are concerned. There was no eviden=
ce
> of oil leakage, but I think I am correct in saying that all but one of th=
e
> oil passages between the head and block are for drainage back down to the
> sump and thus not under pressure. There was no water/steam in the exhaus=
t
> and the car fired evenly (it sounded great!) and no coolant in the
> cylinders after we removed the head, so it looks like just the coolant wa=
s
> leaking. However remember the motor had been running for only about 15 m=
in
> total over several gentle warm/cool cycles. FYI, I use a correct 7 lb ra=
d
> cap.
>
>
>
> On removing the head we could find no evidence of any problem. The gaske=
t
> looked fine, so we really do not know the cause of the failure. This was=
a
> complete rebuild so both the head and the block faces were machined.
>
>
>
> I ordered a =E2=80=9CPremium=E2=80=9D head gasket which was supplied by A=
-H Spares via
> Healey Autofarm here in Ontario (thanks Amanda for the quick service). M=
y
> understanding (i.e., I don=E2=80=99t know for a fact) is that A-H Spares =
has these
> Premium gaskets made and supplies them to others, including MOSS. It is
> pricey and the prices vary, so shop around. Neither Mike nor I could
> discern any visible difference between the =E2=80=9Cregular=E2=80=9D head=
gasket and the
> Premium one (except for the part number), although we did not measure the
> thickness and the material that is sandwiched between the copper/steel
> outer layers may well be a different material or thickness.
>
>
>
> There is much debate about using a gasket dressing or not and I have neve=
r
> seen any actual evidence that using it helps the sealing; it is all
> anecdotal evidence (e.g., =E2=80=9CI have/have not used a head dressing f=
or 40
> years and never had a problem=E2=80=9D). Neither Mike nor I have ever us=
ed a head
> gasket dressing in other rebuilds so although we discussed it we did not
> apply any. Curiously, the MOSS tech expert finally responded to my reque=
st
> to discuss the issue (about a 3 week response time!). He has apparently
> rebuild many Healey engines and always uses a gasket dressing. Take what
> you want from that. He had no explanation or helpful suggestions that Mi=
ke
> and I had not already discussed.
>
>
>
> The head is now torqued down and the rocker shaft is on and torqued. I
> plan to get everything else bolted up this week and will re-start the
> engine, perhaps tomorrow. I=E2=80=99d be grateful if all listers could k=
eep their
> fingers crossed tomorrow in the hopes that positive vibes will compensate
> for any lack of quality in current head gaskets for Healeys.
>
>
>
> BTW, it was two elderly folk and one pretty strong young buck that remove=
d
> the head w/manifolds =E2=80=93 my 30 something friend Dan might be cheese=
d as being
> referred to as elderly! I had lifted the head with manifolds once before
> so knew it could be done, but this was a BT7 and I am unfamiliar with the
> details of a BJ7 engine bay and whether there are any added complications=
.
> I suggest if you lift it with the manifolds, rest the head on top of the
> studs when you lift it and remove the two intake manifold drain pipes, an=
d
> do the same in reverse (as they are a real bugger to get on later) and yo=
u
> would have to lift the head very high when removing if you left them on.
> Frankly, use of an engine lift/chain fall would be safer (but less
> exciting) if you have access to one.
>
>
>
> Stay tuned! Mirek
>
>
>
> *From:* Healeys <healeys-bounces@autox.team.net> *On Behalf Of *Michael
> Salter
> *Sent:* October 26, 2021 10:24 PM
> *To:* healeys <Healeys@autox.team.net>
> *Subject:* Re: [Healeys] Head weight
>
>
>
> We are struggling with head gasket problems on a newly rebuilt engine BT7
> engine at present so will be following this discussion closely.
>
> Regarding lifting the head off with the engine in the car.
>
> With the manifolds on we managed reasonably easily with 1 person on each
> side lifting the rear of the head and 1 at the front. Bit of a grunt but
> possible with 3 somewhat elderly folks.
>
>
>
> M
>
>
>
> On Tue., Oct. 26, 2021, 10:15 p.m. Fred Wescoe via Healeys, <
> healeys@autox.team.net> wrote:
>
> Listers,
>
>
>
> It appears that I may have to pull the head (some oil in the radiator
> fluid) on my 66 BJ8 and I may (likely) have to replace the head gasket. =
I
> am going to leave the engine in the car. I have pulled the head of my BJ=
7
> but that was many years ago. I will need help physically (I'm older now)
> to pull the BJ8 head. Does anyone know what the *actual weight* of just
> the head is? I need to determine how many people I need to help me. Of
> course, I will remove everything from the head before pulling it and then
> place a straight edge on the head and block to determine if I have
> additional issues to deal with. Hopefully not but I will check.
>
>
>
> Do I use sealant on the new head gasket and if so what type? One side o=
r
> both sides?
>
>
>
> After the recent discussion on Moss and their prices and quality, what ar=
e
> the thoughts about sources for a good quality head gasket, without being
> gouged. Entering the cold months, I have plenty of time to do this right=
.
> Is there anything I should be on the lookout for, or check before buttoni=
ng
> up things?
>
>
>
> I want to do this just once but I do want to do it completely and
> correctly. So, any words of wisdom are certainly appreciated.
>
>
>
> Thanks as always,
>
>
>
> Fred
>
> 66BJ8
>
> _______________________________________________
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> Suggested annual donation $12.75
>
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys
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>
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>
>
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<div dir=3D"auto"><span style=3D"font-family:sans-serif;font-size:12.8px">&=
quot;my 30 something friend Dan might be cheesed as being referred to as el=
derly!" .... Sorry Ryan =F0=9F=A4=A3=F0=9F=A4=A3</span></div><br><div =
class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Wed., Oct. 2=
7, 2021, 8:23 a.m. , <<a href=3D"mailto:m.g.sharp@sympatico.ca";>m.g.shar=
p@sympatico.ca</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" st=
yle=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div =
lang=3D"EN-CA" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple" style=3D"word-wrap:break-word=
"><div class=3D"m_-6433162292459539926WordSection1"><p class=3D"MsoNormal">=
<span>Fred, I can add to Mike=E2=80=99s comment as it is my BT7 we were wor=
king on.=C2=A0 We had used the head gasket that came with the head set supp=
lied by MOSS.=C2=A0 As the engine warmed up I had coolant leaking out almos=
t the entire length of the block/head seam, and coming up through several o=
f the head studs.=C2=A0 This was not a localized leak and I would describe =
it as complete failure of the gasket as far as the coolant passages are con=
cerned.=C2=A0 There was no evidence of oil leakage, but I think I am correc=
t in saying that all but one of the oil passages between the head and block=
are for drainage back down to the sump and thus not under pressure.=C2=A0 =
There was no water/steam in the exhaust and the car fired evenly (it sounde=
d great!) and no coolant in the cylinders after we removed the head, so it =
looks like just the coolant was leaking.=C2=A0 However remember the motor h=
ad been running for only about 15 min total over several gentle warm/cool c=
ycles.=C2=A0 FYI, I use a correct 7 lb rad cap.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal"><span><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNor=
mal"><span>On removing the head we could find no evidence of any problem.=
=C2=A0 The gasket looked fine, so we really do not know the cause of the fa=
ilure.=C2=A0 This was a complete rebuild so both the head and the block fac=
es were machined.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span><u><=
/u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>I ordered a =E2=80=
=9CPremium=E2=80=9D head gasket which was supplied by A-H Spares via Healey=
Autofarm here in Ontario (thanks Amanda for the quick service).=C2=A0 My u=
nderstanding (i.e., I don=E2=80=99t know for a fact) is that A-H Spares has=
these Premium gaskets made and supplies them to others, including MOSS.=C2=
=A0 It is pricey and the prices vary, so shop around.=C2=A0 Neither Mike no=
r I could discern any visible difference between the =E2=80=9Cregular=E2=80=
=9D head gasket and the Premium one (except for the part number), although =
we did not measure the thickness and the material that is sandwiched betwee=
n the copper/steel outer layers may well be a different material or thickne=
ss.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span><u></u>=C2=A0<u></=
u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>There is much debate about using =
a gasket dressing or not and I have never seen any actual evidence that usi=
ng it helps the sealing; it is all anecdotal evidence (e.g., =E2=80=9CI hav=
e/have not used a head dressing for 40 years and never had a problem=E2=80=
=9D).=C2=A0 Neither Mike nor I have ever used a head gasket dressing in oth=
er rebuilds so although we discussed it we did not apply any.=C2=A0 Curious=
ly, the MOSS tech expert finally responded to my request to discuss the iss=
ue (about a 3 week response time!).=C2=A0 He has apparently rebuild many He=
aley engines and always uses a gasket dressing.=C2=A0 Take what you want fr=
om that.=C2=A0 He had no explanation or helpful suggestions that Mike and I=
had not already discussed.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">=
<span><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>The head =
is now torqued down and the rocker shaft is on and torqued.=C2=A0 I plan to=
get everything else bolted up this week and will re-start the engine, perh=
aps tomorrow.=C2=A0 I=E2=80=99d be grateful if all listers could keep their=
fingers crossed tomorrow in the hopes that positive vibes will compensate =
for any lack of quality in current head gaskets for Healeys.<u></u><u></u><=
/span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p cl=
ass=3D"MsoNormal"><span>BTW, it was two elderly folk and one pretty strong =
young buck that removed the head w/manifolds =E2=80=93 my 30 something frie=
nd Dan might be cheesed as being referred to as elderly!=C2=A0 I had lifted=
the head with manifolds once before so knew it could be done, but this was=
a BT7 and I am unfamiliar with the details of a BJ7 engine bay and whether=
there are any added complications.=C2=A0 I suggest if you lift it with the=
manifolds, rest the head on top of the studs when you lift it and remove t=
he two intake manifold drain pipes, and do the same in reverse (as they are=
a real bugger to get on later) and you would have to lift the head very hi=
gh when removing if you left them on.=C2=A0 Frankly, use of an engine lift/=
chain fall would be safer (but less exciting) if you have access to one.<u>=
</u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></sp=
an></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>Stay tuned!=C2=A0 Mirek<u></u><u></u></=
span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><div s=
tyle=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #e1e1e1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0c=
m"><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US">From:</span></b><span lan=
g=3D"EN-US"> Healeys <<a href=3D"mailto:healeys-bounces@autox.team.net"; =
target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">healeys-bounces@autox.team.net</a>>=
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Michael Salter<br><b>Sent:</b> October 26, 2021 10:24 =
PM<br><b>To:</b> healeys <<a href=3D"mailto:Healeys@autox.team.net"; targ=
et=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">Healeys@autox.team.net</a>><br><b>Subje=
ct:</b> Re: [Healeys] Head weight<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><p class=3D=
"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">We are stru=
ggling with head gasket problems on a newly rebuilt=C2=A0engine BT7 engine =
at present so will be following this discussion closely.<u></u><u></u></p><=
div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Regarding lifting the head off with the engine i=
n the car.<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">With the mani=
folds on we managed reasonably easily with 1 person on each side lifting th=
e rear of the head and 1 at the front. Bit of a grunt but possible with 3 s=
omewhat elderly folks.<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><=
u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">M<u></u><u></u></p=
></div></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p><div><div><p cl=
ass=3D"MsoNormal">On Tue., Oct. 26, 2021, 10:15 p.m. Fred Wescoe via Healey=
s, <<a href=3D"mailto:healeys@autox.team.net"; target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"n=
oreferrer">healeys@autox.team.net</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p></div><bl=
ockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0=
cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm"><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal=
">Listers,<u></u><u></u></p><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u=
></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">It appears that I may have to pull t=
he head (some oil in the radiator fluid) on my 66 BJ8 and I may (likely) ha=
ve to replace the head gasket.=C2=A0 I am going to leave the engine in the =
car.=C2=A0 I have pulled the head of my BJ7 but that was many years ago.=C2=
=A0 I will need help physically (I'm older now) to pull the BJ8 head.=
=C2=A0 Does anyone know what the <b>actual weight</b> of just the head is?=
=C2=A0 I need to determine how many people I need=C2=A0to help me.=C2=A0 Of=
course, I will remove everything from the head before pulling it and then =
place a straight edge on the head and block to determine if I have addition=
al issues to deal with.=C2=A0 Hopefully not but I will check.=C2=A0=C2=A0<u=
></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p><=
/div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Do I use sealant=C2=A0on the new head gask=
et and if so what type?=C2=A0 =C2=A0One side or both sides?<u></u><u></u></=
p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p></div><div><p c=
lass=3D"MsoNormal">After the recent discussion on Moss and their prices and=
quality, what are the thoughts about sources for a good quality head gaske=
t, without being gouged.=C2=A0 Entering the cold months, I have plenty of t=
ime to do this right.=C2=A0 Is there anything I should be on the=C2=A0looko=
ut for, or check before buttoning up things?=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p></div><=
div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"M=
soNormal">I want to do this just once but I do want to do it completely and=
correctly.=C2=A0 So, any words of wisdom are certainly appreciated.<u></u>=
<u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p></div>=
<div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thanks as always,<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><=
p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNor=
mal">Fred<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">66BJ8<u></u><u=
></u></p></div></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt">=
_______________________________________________<br>Support Team.Net <a href=
=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html"; target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">h=
ttp://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>Suggested annual donation=C2=A0 $12.7=
5<br><br>Archive: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys"; target=
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Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys http://autox.team.net/archive
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