--===============2520465121997158409==
--000000000000d667a305c92182ee
I use Kendel 20/50 race oils with higher zinc, or other non street race
oils for many years in my car. So far so good
Ira Erbs
1959 AH 100-6
1967 MGB
Milwaukie, OR
On Mon, Aug 9, 2021, 4:21 AM Michael Oritt <michael.oritt@gmail.com> wrote:
> Bob--
>
> I should have added that this incident coincided with a recent lowering by
> DOT of lead and zinc contents and what might have been fine a year
> earlier was no longer sufficient to protect the new cam and lifters. I'll
> certainly plead guilty to the sometimes-specious thinking that "more is
> better", but on the other hand "less" is sometimes not enough, and therein
> lies the dilemma.
>
> Best--Michael Oritt
>
> On Sun, Aug 8, 2021 at 11:00 PM Bob Spidell via Healeys <
> healeys@autox.team.net> wrote:
>
>> Subject to debate. The literature I've seen from the oil companies stress
>> that their products are carefully formulated, and adding anything to them
>> is not a good idea. Also, ZDDP was first used as a detergent, with its wear
>> surface protection a surprising side-effect (like how tetra-ethyl lead was
>> added to gas to increase octane rating, and its cushioning and protecting
>> of valve seats was a side-effect). But, it's human nature to think "If a
>> little of this is good, a lot HAS to be better," but it's not necessarily
>> true. ZDDP is corrosive in high concentrations; the 'sweet spot' appears to
>> be about 1,500PPM.
>>
>> Ordinarily, I'd attribute Michael's failed lifters (cam?) to improper
>> break-in, but I'm sure M used proper procedures, which makes this doubly
>> mysterious and concerning. I don't know how bucket lifters would change the
>> outcome; their main benefit seems to be reduced wear of the block.
>>
>>
>> On 8/8/2021 6:19 PM, i erbs via Healeys wrote:
>>
>> Good practice
>>
>> Ira Erbs
>> 1959 AH 100-6
>> 1967 MGB
>> Milwaukie, OR
>>
>> On Sun, Aug 8, 2021, 6:09 PM Alan Seigrist <healey.nut@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> So adding zddp on top of whatever is in there is okay? I have Castrol
>>> 20W-50 in my motor... also use the Valvoline too.
>>>
>>> On Sat, Aug 7, 2021 at 11:11 PM Michael Oritt via Healeys <
>>> healeys@autox.team.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> In about 2007 just before ZDDP content in motor oils became a commonly
>>>> talked-about issue in vintage racing communities, I bought a new race
>>>> engine for my MGA-powered Elva Courier from a reputable builder who
>>>> recommended I use Mobil 1. Somewhere during the first race weekend
>>>> performance fell off and upon disassembly it was determined that the cam
>>>> lobes had been damaged due to wear from the lifters.
>>>>
>>>> After replacing the cam and lifters I began using RP racing oil and
>>>> throwing in ZDDP additive for good measure. Though the Royal Purple
>>>> probably contained sufficient zddp on its own and some folks
>>>> cautioned against too high levels of zinc I have continued this
>>>> combination and have not lost a cam, etc. since.
>>>>
>>>> YMMV....
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Aug 5, 2021 at 11:16 PM Michael Salter <michaelsalter@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> The first sign of problems was having to adjust the tappets which had
>>>>> initially been silent after 2000 miles and then again at 4500.
>>>>> After adjusting they were still audible and had previously been silent.
>>>>> Then at the 2000 and 4000 mile oil changes there was "fir" in the
>>>>> drain plug magnet.
>>>>> I'm very disappointed to have destroyed a very low mileage "M" cam and
>>>>> a set of NOS lifters that I had been saving for decades.
>>>>> I'm seriously considering having silicon nitride lifters manufactured
>>>>> but at over $1000 a set its a serious investment.
>>>>>
>>>>> M
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed., Aug. 4, 2021, 10:47 a.m. Steven Kingsbury, <
>>>>> airtightproductions@icloud.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I just rebuilt my 100 engine and purchased my lifters from AH Spares
>>>>>> in the UK. These were their new design for better oil flow. I now have
>>>>>> 1000
>>>>>> miles or so on the new engine and once I got my problems figured out with
>>>>>> my distributor, the car is running well and smooth.
>>>>>> Now I'm wondering when the other shoe is going to drop! What
>>>>>> problems did you have pointing you to the lifters as the source of those
>>>>>> problems? When I retorqued the head, I readjusted the rockers and found
>>>>>> no
>>>>>> problems. They were a little off, but I expected a little.
>>>>>> What should I be looking for? I used Driven Break In oil and then
>>>>>> I switched to VR1 like you after 500 miles. I have been driving the car
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> build up some trust in it and it's turning in to a joy to drive. I've
>>>>>> got M
>>>>>> mods on this engine, cam, H6 carbs, M pistons and these new lifters. So
>>>>>> far, so good.
>>>>>> Thanks for your help,
>>>>>> Steven Kingsbury
>>>>>> BN1
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On August 3, 2021 at 5:19 PM, Michael Salter via Healeys <
>>>>>> healeys@autox.team.net> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> After only 6000 miles the NOS BMC lifters that I installed in my
>>>>>> engine with a very low mileage "M" cam have started to deteriorate.
>>>>>> This engine has had a steady diet of VR1 non synthetic and it has had
>>>>>> 4 changes in 6K miles.
>>>>>> Very disappointing.
>>>>>> I'm considering trying bucket type Buick lifters with longer push
>>>>>> rods and a new cam.
>>>>>> Does anyone have experience with the durability of the old Buick
>>>>>> lifters ... getting a little desperate here.
>>>>>> Fortunately I caught this issue before it ruined the engine.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> M
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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>>
>
> --
> Best--Michael
> _______________________________________________
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--000000000000d667a305c92182ee
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<div dir=3D"auto"><div>I use Kendel 20/50 race oils with higher zinc, or ot=
her non street race oils for many years in my car. So far so good<br><br><d=
iv data-smartmail=3D"gmail_signature">Ira Erbs<br>1959 AH 100-6<br>1967 MGB=
<br>Milwaukie, OR</div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" clas=
s=3D"gmail_attr">On Mon, Aug 9, 2021, 4:21 AM Michael Oritt <<a href=3D"=
mailto:michael.oritt@gmail.com";>michael.oritt@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br><=
/div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-le=
ft:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_de=
fault" style=3D"color:#3333ff">Bob--</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" styl=
e=3D"color:#3333ff"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"color:#=
3333ff">I should have added that this incident coincided with a recent lowe=
ring by DOT of lead and zinc contents and what might have been fine a year =
earlier=C2=A0was no longer=C2=A0sufficient to protect the new cam and lifte=
rs.=C2=A0 I'll certainly=C2=A0plead guilty to the sometimes-specious th=
inking that=C2=A0"more is better", but on the other hand "le=
ss" is sometimes not enough, and therein lies the dilemma.</div><div c=
lass=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"color:#3333ff"><br></div><div class=3D"gmai=
l_default" style=3D"color:#3333ff">Best--Michael Oritt</div></div><br><div =
class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sun, Aug 8, =
2021 at 11:00 PM Bob Spidell via Healeys <<a href=3D"mailto:healeys@auto=
x.team.net" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">healeys@autox.team.net</a>=
> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px =
0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
=20
=20
=20
<div>
Subject to debate. The literature I've seen from the oil companies
stress that their products are carefully formulated, and adding
anything to them is not a good idea. Also, ZDDP was first used as a
detergent, with its wear surface protection a surprising side-effect
(like how tetra-ethyl lead was added to gas to increase octane
rating, and its cushioning and protecting of valve seats was a
side-effect). But, it's human nature to think "If a little of =
this
is good, a lot HAS to be better," but it's not necessarily tru=
e.
ZDDP is corrosive in high concentrations; the 'sweet spot' appe=
ars
to be about 1,500PPM. <br>
<br>
Ordinarily, I'd attribute Michael's failed lifters (cam?) to
improper break-in, but I'm sure M used proper procedures, which
makes this doubly mysterious and concerning. I don't know how bucke=
t
lifters would change the outcome; their main benefit seems to be
reduced wear of the block.<br>
<br>
<br>
<div>On 8/8/2021 6:19 PM, i erbs via Healeys
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type=3D"cite">
=20
<div dir=3D"auto">Good practice<br>
<br>
<div>Ira Erbs<br>
1959 AH 100-6<br>
1967 MGB<br>
Milwaukie, OR</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">
<div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sun, Aug 8, 2021, 6:09 PM
Alan Seigrist <<a href=3D"mailto:healey.nut@gmail.com"; target=
=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">healey.nut@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex=
;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir=3D"ltr">So adding zddp on top of whatever is in there
is okay?=C2=A0 I have Castrol 20W-50 in my motor... also use th=
e
Valvoline too.</div>
<br>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">
<div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sat, Aug 7, 2021 at
11:11 PM Michael Oritt via Healeys <<a href=3D"mailto:heal=
eys@autox.team.net" rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">healeys=
@autox.team.net</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0=
.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"color:rgb(51,51,255)"=
>In
about 2007 just before ZDDP content in motor oils
became a commonly talked-about issue in vintage racing
communities, I bought a new race engine for my
MGA-powered Elva Courier from a reputable builder who
recommended=C2=A0I use Mobil 1.=C2=A0 Somewhere during th=
e first
race weekend performance fell off and upon disassembly
it was determined that the cam lobes had been damaged
due to wear from the lifters.=C2=A0=C2=A0</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"color:rgb(51,51,255)"=
><br>
</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"color:rgb(51,51,255)"=
>After
replacing the cam and lifters I began=C2=A0using RP racin=
g
oil and throwing in ZDDP additive for good measure.=C2=A0
Though the Royal Purple probably contained sufficient
zddp on its own and some folks cautioned=C2=A0against too
high levels of zinc I have=C2=A0 continued this combinati=
on
and have not lost a cam, etc. since.</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"color:rgb(51,51,255)"=
><br>
</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"color:rgb(51,51,255)"=
>YMMV....=C2=A0=C2=A0</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">
<div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Thu, Aug 5, 2021 a=
t
11:16 PM Michael Salter <<a href=3D"mailto:michaelsalt=
er@gmail.com" rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">michaelsalter=
@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0=
px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir=3D"auto">The first sign of problems was having
to adjust the tappets which had initially been
silent after 2000 miles and then again at 4500.
<div dir=3D"auto">After adjusting they were still
audible and had previously been silent.</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">Then at the 2000 and 4000 mile oil
changes there was "fir" in the drain plug m=
agnet.</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">I'm very disappointed to have
destroyed a very low mileage "M" cam and a =
set of
NOS lifters that I had been saving for decades.</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">I'm seriously considering having
silicon nitride lifters manufactured but at over
$1000 a set its a serious investment.</div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">M</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">
<div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Wed., Aug. 4,
2021, 10:47 a.m. Steven Kingsbury, <<a href=3D"mai=
lto:airtightproductions@icloud.com" rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D=
"_blank">airtightproductions@icloud.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0=
px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<div>I just rebuilt my 100 engine and purchased
my lifters from AH Spares in the UK. These
were their new design for better oil flow. I
now have 1000 miles or so on the new engine
and once I got my problems figured out with my
distributor, the car is running well and
smooth.</div>
<div>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Now I'm wondering when t=
he other shoe is
going to drop! What problems did you have
pointing you to the lifters as the source of
those problems? When I retorqued the head, I
readjusted the rockers and found no problems.
They were a little off, but I expected a
little.</div>
<div>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0What should I be looking for=
? I used
Driven Break In oil and then I switched to VR1
like you after 500 miles. I have been driving
the car to build up some trust in it and it's
turning in to a joy to drive. I've got M mods
on this engine, cam, H6 carbs, M pistons and
these new lifters. So far, so good.=C2=A0</div>
<div>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Thanks for your help,</div>
<div>Steven Kingsbury</div>
<div>BN1</div>
<div><br>
On August 3, 2021 at 5:19 PM, Michael Salter
via Healeys <<a href=3D"mailto:healeys@autox.t=
eam.net" rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">healeys=
@autox.team.net</a>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
</div>
<div>
<blockquote type=3D"cite">
<div>
<div dir=3D"auto">After only 6000 miles the
NOS BMC lifters that I installed in my
engine with a very low mileage "M"=
; cam
have started to deteriorate.=C2=A0
<div dir=3D"auto">This engine has had a
steady diet of VR1 non synthetic and
it has had 4 changes in 6K miles.=C2=A0</=
div>
<div dir=3D"auto">Very disappointing.=C2=A0=
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">I'm=C2=A0 considering=
trying
bucket type Buick lifters with longer
push rods and a new cam.</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">Does anyone have
experience with the durability of the
old Buick lifters ... getting a little
desperate here.</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">Fortunately I caught
this issue before it ruined the
engine.</div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">M</div>
</div>
<br>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
</div>
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</blockquote></div><br clear=3D"all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div dir=3D"ltr"=
><font color=3D"#3333ff">Best--Michael</font></div>
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