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Re: [Healeys] Thermostats

To: Harold Manifold <manifold@telus.net>
Subject: Re: [Healeys] Thermostats
From: Linwood Rose <linwoodrose@mac.com>
Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2018 14:19:43 -0400
Cc: Forum Healeys <Healeys@autox.team.net>
Delivered-to: mharc@autox.team.net
Delivered-to: healeys@autox.team.net
References: <ACDC9150-A58D-4D06-8511-4E669C42B09E@shaw.ca> <BN6PR22MB08525E8BCA76743A78FEB958A1180@BN6PR22MB0852.namprd22.prod.outlook.com> <C29BEB22-5815-4BDD-80A2-3B688884B175@shaw.ca> <1ZNDgBWSGivID1ZNEgVMZ0@mac.com> <CE4193BBEF304FA380D0940C94D7BA27@AllInOne>
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Well, I just moved to southern Florida -so it looks like David Nock=E2=80=99=
s bellows, fail open thermostat should be the one for me =F0=9F=91=8D=F0=9F=98=
=80
Lin

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 16, 2018, at 1:52 PM, Harold Manifold <manifold@telus.net> wrote:
>=20
> I tried to help myself but I have once again been drawn into a discussion a=
bout engine thermostats. As I read the posts the underlying questions are wh=
at is the best thermostat and do I have the right one? I will correct one Po=
ster who suggested the role of the thermostat was to control pressure in the=
 cooling system. While thermostats may have an effect on pressure in the coo=
ling system that is the job of the radiator cap.
> =20
> I suggest the best thermostat has these features: fails in the open positi=
on i.e. coolant circulates through the radiator. You can get home with a coo=
l engine but not a hot one. Blocks circulation of coolant between the engine=
 and radiator until the engine has reached its predetermined temperature. i.=
e. The thermostat fits the housing and seals when closed. The thermostat ful=
ly opens about 15-20 degrees above its rated temperature. The thermostat sho=
uld have a =E2=80=9Cjiggle pin=E2=80=9D or =E2=80=9Ccheck valve=E2=80=9D tha=
t allows trapped air in the cooling system to pass through the thermostat an=
d be released from the system.
> =20
> Do I have the right one? Based on old manuals I have seen there were two t=
emperature ratings for 3000 Healeys, Summer 70 Deg C/160 Deg F and Winter 86=
 Deg C/185 Deg F. I believe the thinking behind the two thermostat approach w=
as to reduce boiling the radiator in summer and to make the heater work bett=
er in the winter. Depending on where you live and and the driving conditions=
 may influence which end of the range you want to be at. If you live in Flor=
ida and/or drive in slow moving traffic I would suggest the 160 degree. Your=
 cooling system will have more reserve when traffic slows. If you live in Ot=
tawa 185 is likely better as it is winter all the time. However, the most im=
portant factor is not opening temperature but does the thermostat properly c=
ontrol the coolant temperature. If you have a 160 degree thermostat and the c=
oolant temperature fluctuates between 160-180 then it is the right one. Like=
wise the 185 should stay between 185-205. It is most important for the cooli=
ng system to stay between the lower and upper temperatures. If the temperatu=
re is not between these two points then the cooling system is "not in contro=
l".
> =20
> Bottom line is if the cooling system is "in control" and you are happy wit=
h the way the car warms up you have the right thermostat.
> =20
> Harold
> =20
>=20
> From: Healeys [mailto:healeys-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Linwood=
 Rose
> Sent: Sunday, September 16, 2018 7:19 AM
> To: Rossm
> Cc: Forum Healeys
> Subject: Re: [Healeys] Thermostats
>=20
> I would like to go back to Steve Byers=E2=80=99 comment. I am not so much c=
oncerned about my car overheating. When the engine was rebuilt it was thorou=
ghly cleaned to get rid of all sludge. I run an aluminum radiator, have buil=
t and installed air ducting for improved flow. I do not have an electric fan=
.=20
>=20
> My problem was that my engine ran cool and would take quite a while to =E2=
=80=9Cwarm up.=E2=80=9D I think I was using a 165 degree (or thereabouts) no=
n-sleeved thermostat. Robert Shaw as I recall. So I wanted to get my engine u=
p to 185-190 degrees sooner. I went with one of the same AC sleeved thermost=
ats 82 degrees centigrade from Kees that Steve used. The engine seems to be m=
uch happier and gets to running temp more quickly.
>=20
> At least for my engine, a 160-165 degree thermostat keeps things cool too l=
ong. In a perfect world I would prefer David Nock=E2=80=99s bellows thermost=
at but with a 185-190 degree opening. Since that doesn=E2=80=99t seem to be a=
vailable I think I will stick with the AC unit and keep my eye on the temp. G=
auge.
>=20
> I am no authority on this. I am simply passing along my experience. Am I u=
nderstanding all of this correctly?=20
>=20
> Thanks,
> Lin
>=20
> Sent from my iPhone
>=20
>> On Sep 15, 2018, at 9:30 PM, Rossm <rvmaylor@shaw.ca> wrote:
>>=20
>> To be fair Michael, it is hot maybe three days a year in Canada?:) .  I l=
eft Calgary yesterday for the Rendezvous and it was snowing already. First t=
ime the hood contraption on the BN6 has been up since last September. =20
>>=20
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>=20
>>> On Sep 15, 2018, at 10:50, Michael Salter <michael.salter@gmail.com> wro=
te:
>>>=20
>>> Well I have watched this discussion on sleeved thermostats for the last w=
eek but now I just have to say. When the sleeved thermostats went NLA, about=
 45 years ago, we resorted to installing just plain old Stant 175 degree sta=
ts and guess what ... not one complaint or comment on running hotter or over=
heating and absolutely no sign of any symptoms of overheating on my own BJ8 e=
ven in the hottest of ambient temperatures. It just didn't happen!!! Just sa=
yin'. M      =20
>>> From: Healeys <healeys-bounces@autox.team.net> on behalf of Rossm <rvmay=
lor@shaw.ca>
>>> Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2018 10:35:32 AM
>>> To: Forum Healeys
>>> Subject: [Healeys] Thermostats
>>> =20
>>> Three sleeved thermostats, one on the right 160 degrees, middle no idea,=
  left is a Smiths x85002s/86 (180F) and has failed open.=20
>>>=20
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>> Suggested annual donation  $12.75
>>>=20
>>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys
>>>=20
>>> Healeys@autox.team.net
>>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys
>>>=20
>>> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/rvmayl=
or@shaw.ca
>>>=20
>> _______________________________________________
>> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html
>> Suggested annual donation  $12.75
>>=20
>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys
>>=20
>> Healeys@autox.team.net
>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys
>>=20
>> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/linwood=
rose@mac.com
>>=20

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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3D=
utf-8"></head><body dir=3D"auto">Well, I just moved to southern Florida -so i=
t looks like David Nock=E2=80=99s bellows, fail open thermostat should be th=
e one for me =F0=9F=91=8D=F0=9F=98=80<div>Lin<br><div><br><div id=3D"AppleMa=
ilSignature">Sent from my iPhone</div><div><br>On Sep 16, 2018, at 1:52 PM, H=
arold Manifold &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:manifold@telus.net";>manifold@telus.net<=
/a>&gt; wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div>

<meta content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dus-ascii" http-equiv=3D"Content-Type">=

<meta name=3D"GENERATOR" content=3D"MSHTML 11.00.10570.1001">

<div dir=3D"ltr" align=3D"left"><span class=3D"436134816-16092018"><font col=
or=3D"#0000ff" size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial">I tried to help myself but I have o=
nce again been drawn into a=20
discussion about engine thermostats. As I read the posts the underlying=20
questions are what is the best thermostat and do I have the right one? I wil=
l=20
correct one Poster who suggested the role of the thermostat was to control=20=

pressure in the cooling system. While thermostats may have an effect on pres=
sure=20
in the cooling system that is the job of the radiator cap. </font></span></d=
iv>
<div dir=3D"ltr" align=3D"left"><span class=3D"436134816-16092018"><font col=
or=3D"#0000ff" size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial"></font></span>&nbsp;</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr" align=3D"left"><font face=3D"Arial"><font size=3D"2"><font c=
olor=3D"#0000ff"><span class=3D"436134816-16092018">I suggest the best therm=
ostat has these features: fails=20
in the open position i.e. coolant circulates through the radiator. You can g=
et=20
home with a cool engine but not a hot one. Blocks circulation of coolant bet=
ween=20
the engine and radiator until the engine has reached its predetermined=20
temperature. i.e. The thermostat fits the housing and seals when closed.=20
</span><span class=3D"436134816-16092018">The thermostat fully opens about 1=
5-20=20
degrees above its rated temperature. The thermostat should have a =E2=80=9Cj=
iggle pin=E2=80=9D=20
or =E2=80=9Ccheck valve=E2=80=9D that allows trapped air in the cooling syst=
em to pass through=20
the thermostat and be released from the=20
system.</span></font></font></font></div>
<div dir=3D"ltr" align=3D"left"><font color=3D"#0000ff" size=3D"2" face=3D"A=
rial"><span class=3D"436134816-16092018"></span></font>&nbsp;</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr" align=3D"left"><font color=3D"#0000ff" size=3D"2" face=3D"A=
rial"><span class=3D"436134816-16092018">Do I have the right one? Based on o=
ld manuals I have=20
seen there were two temperature ratings for 3000 Healeys, Summer 70 Deg C/16=
0=20
Deg F and Winter 86 Deg C/185 Deg F. I believe the thinking behind the two=20=

thermostat approach was to reduce boiling the radiator in summer and to make=
 the=20
heater work better in the winter. Depending on where you live and and=20
the&nbsp;driving conditions may influence which end of the range you want to=
 be=20
at. If you live in Florida and/or drive in slow moving traffic I would sugge=
st=20
the 160 degree. Your cooling system will have more reserve when&nbsp;traffic=
=20
slows. If you live in Ottawa 185 is likely better as it is winter all the ti=
me.=20
However, the most important factor&nbsp;is not opening temperature but does t=
he=20
thermostat properly control the coolant temperature. If you have a 160 degre=
e=20
thermostat and the coolant temperature fluctuates between 160-180 then it is=
 the=20
right one. Likewise the 185 should stay between 185-205. It is most importan=
t=20
for the cooling system to stay between the lower and upper temperatures. If t=
he=20
temperature is not between these two points then the cooling system is "not i=
n=20
control".</span></font></div>
<div dir=3D"ltr" align=3D"left"><font color=3D"#0000ff" size=3D"2" face=3D"A=
rial"><span class=3D"436134816-16092018"></span></font>&nbsp;</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr" align=3D"left"><font color=3D"#0000ff" size=3D"2" face=3D"A=
rial"><span class=3D"436134816-16092018">Bottom line is if the cooling syste=
m is "in control"=20
and you are happy with the way the car warms up&nbsp;you have the right=20
thermostat.</span></font></div>
<div dir=3D"ltr" align=3D"left"><font color=3D"#0000ff" size=3D"2" face=3D"A=
rial"><span class=3D"436134816-16092018"></span></font>&nbsp;</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr" align=3D"left"><font face=3D"Arial"><font size=3D"2"><font c=
olor=3D"#0000ff"><span class=3D"436134816-16092018">Harold</span></font></fo=
nt></font></div>
<div dir=3D"ltr" align=3D"left"><span class=3D"436134816-16092018"><font col=
or=3D"#0000ff" size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial"></font></span>&nbsp;</div><font siz=
e=3D"2" face=3D"Arial"></font><br>
<div lang=3D"en-us" class=3D"OutlookMessageHeader" dir=3D"ltr" align=3D"left=
">
<hr tabindex=3D"-1">
<font size=3D"2" face=3D"Tahoma"><b>From:</b> Healeys=20
[<a href=3D"mailto:healeys-bounces@autox.team.net";>mailto:healeys-bounces@au=
tox.team.net</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Linwood=20
Rose<br><b>Sent:</b> Sunday, September 16, 2018 7:19 AM<br><b>To:</b>=20
Rossm<br><b>Cc:</b> Forum Healeys<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Healeys]=20
Thermostats<br></font><br></div>
<div></div>I would like to go back to Steve Byers=E2=80=99 comment. I am not=
 so much=20
concerned about my car overheating. When the engine was rebuilt it was=20
thoroughly cleaned to get rid of all sludge. I run an aluminum radiator, hav=
e=20
built and installed air ducting for improved flow. I do not have an electric=
=20
fan.&nbsp;
<div><br></div>
<div>My problem was that my engine ran cool and would take quite a while to=20=

=E2=80=9Cwarm up.=E2=80=9D I think I was using a 165 degree (or thereabouts)=
 non-sleeved=20
thermostat. Robert Shaw as I recall. So I wanted to get my engine up to 185-=
190=20
degrees sooner. I went with one of the same AC sleeved thermostats 82 degree=
s=20
centigrade from Kees that Steve used. The engine seems to be much happier an=
d=20
gets to running temp more quickly.</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>At least for my engine, a 160-165 degree thermostat keeps things cool t=
oo=20
long. In a perfect world I would prefer David Nock=E2=80=99s bellows thermos=
tat but with=20
a 185-190 degree opening. Since that doesn=E2=80=99t seem to be available I t=
hink I will=20
stick with the AC unit and keep my eye on the temp. Gauge.</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>I am no authority on this. I am simply passing along my experience. Am I=
=20
understanding all of this correctly?&nbsp;</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>Thanks,</div>
<div>Lin<br><br>
<div id=3D"AppleMailSignature">Sent from my iPhone</div>
<div><br>On Sep 15, 2018, at 9:30 PM, Rossm &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:rvmaylor@s=
haw.ca">rvmaylor@shaw.ca</a>&gt; wrote:<br><br></div>
<blockquote type=3D"cite">
  <div>To be fair Michael, it is hot maybe three days a year in Canada?:) .=20=

  &nbsp;I left Calgary yesterday for the Rendezvous and it was snowing alrea=
dy.=20
  First time the hood contraption on the BN6 has been up since last Septembe=
r.=20
  &nbsp;<br><br>
  <div id=3D"AppleMailSignature">Sent from my iPhone</div>
  <div><br>On Sep 15, 2018, at 10:50, Michael Salter &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:m=
ichael.salter@gmail.com">michael.salter@gmail.com</a>&gt;=20
  wrote:<br><br></div>
  <blockquote type=3D"cite">
    <div>
    <meta name=3D"Generator" content=3D"Microsoft Exchange Server"><!-- conv=
erted from text -->
    <style>.EmailQuote {
        PADDING-LEFT: 4pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 1pt; BORDER-LEFT: #800000 2px solid=

}
</style>

    <div>Well I have watched this discussion on sleeved thermostats for the l=
ast=20
    week but now I just have to say. When the sleeved thermostats went NLA,=20=

    about 45 years ago, we resorted to installing just plain old Stant 175=20=

    degree stats and guess what ... not one complaint or comment on running=20=

    hotter or overheating and absolutely no sign of any symptoms of overheat=
ing=20
    on my own BJ8 even in the hottest of ambient temperatures. It just didn'=
t=20
    happen!!! Just sayin'. M=20
    <hr tabindex=3D"-1" style=3D"WIDTH: 98%; DISPLAY: inline-block">

    <div id=3D"x_divRplyFwdMsg" dir=3D"ltr"><font style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt" c=
olor=3D"#000000" face=3D"Calibri, sans-serif"><b>From:</b> Healeys &lt;<a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:healeys-bounces@autox.team.net";>healeys-bounces@autox.team.net<=
/a>&gt;=20
    on behalf of Rossm &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:rvmaylor@shaw.ca";>rvmaylor@shaw=
.ca</a>&gt;<br><b>Sent:</b>=20
    Saturday, September 15, 2018 10:35:32 AM<br><b>To:</b> Forum=20
    Healeys<br><b>Subject:</b> [Healeys] Thermostats</font>=20
    <div>&nbsp;</div></div></div><font size=3D"2"><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 1=
1pt">
    <div class=3D"PlainText">Three sleeved thermostats, one on the right 160=
=20
    degrees, middle no idea,&nbsp; left is a Smiths x85002s/86 (180F) and ha=
s=20
    failed open. <br><br></div></span></font></div></blockquote>
  <blockquote type=3D"cite">
    <div><span>_______________________________________________</span><br><sp=
an>Support=20
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<br><span></span><br></div></blockquote></div></blockquote>
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