Re: Request for dialogue

[Wayne M Simpson <StagHunter@comcast.net>]

Blake J. Discher wrote:

> Thanks for your well thought out email.  I guess I am just more 
> optimistic that I can effect change.  And so is Ronnie Babbitt.  The VTR 
> board just asked us to participate, they want new ideas, new voices.  
> Give us a chance.  And yes, my offer was bona fide.
What offer was that? You're perhaps offering to come out to Jersey and 
show me how (in the "Tom Sawyer" sense) to detail my Stag? Well come on out!

Seriously, I've been seeing posts show up on the VTR list without seeing 
their precursors and this makes following the conversation hard. I 
assume "the latest brouhaha" has to do with restricting some of the VTR 
site content to members only. My comment on this is that any club which 
hands out all it's intellectual property to members and non members 
alike isn't thinking straight. If non members can have all or most of 
the benefits of membership, why be a member?

> > One assumes that the possibility of acquiring new NASS members was 
> > carefully weighed against the costs in time and resources to support 
> > such a chapter, and the costs were deemed too high for the potential 
> > number of members.
Coming in again after the fact I'd like to know exactly who approached 
whom and what decisions were made. I don't know know of any marque 
specific clubs that have chapter status within the VTR. In fact, there's 
a long standing history of such clubs not becoming chapters, beginning 
with the TR8 Car Club of America, which made the choice to go it alone 
when it was founded in 1983. More recently the Stag Club USA was 
approached regarding chapter status and respectfully declined VTR's 
offer. The reason came down, basically, to "more in it for them (VTR) 
than us (TSC)". I'm not sure I agree with the logic since there is 
essentially no work involved in being a VTR Chapter, but there it is.

> I'm not sure since I wasn't involved when this decision was made.  
> Apparently you mean that NASS asked to be a chapter of VTR and was 
> turned down?  
I would find this hard to believe, but will wait for an eyewitness 
account to tell us what actually happened. I'd be more willing to 
believe that if NASS applied for chapter status, their application was 
simply ignored or died trying to get noticed. I've been trying for over 
a year to get my local club recognized as a VTR zone, and my 
applications drew no official response either. That part of VTR's 
machinery simply hasn't been working for at least a year.

I was recently contacted by Ronnie Babbit however, and this gives me 
hope that something will happen soon.

> > If VTR is seriously concerned about declining membership numbers, 
> > they'll listen to complaints and concerns and then react. That time is 
> > obviously not nigh. When it is, they'll be soliciting opinions and 
> > actively seeking exposure and members. I'm a lister on 4 Spitfire 
> > related e-mail lists, and cannot recall a single approach by VTR, or 
> > even much mention of it at all.
Such an approach would be made by VTR officers to NASS officers. I don't 
know about you, but I'd prefer to see command decisions discussed first 
by the elected decision makers rather than on open e-mail lists. They 
can let me know, invite debate, and vote if necessary, when the times comes.

> > A move to restrict formerly accessible areas of their site from 
> > non-members would not make good business nor marketing sense, in my 
> > opinion.
Giving away all your intellectual property doesn't make any business 
sense in my opinion either. Most club sites will have a "members only" 
section. That VTR hasn't formerly had one is, in my opinion, an 
oversight. It's up to the board and the webmaster to decide what belongs 
in the open and what should have restricted access. Web sites come and 
go all the time. They're owned by the people who write, maintain and pay 
for them, and they have the right to decide what goes where.

> > Personally, I'm a member of my local Triumph club (BCTR), and of NASS, 
> > and I send a semi-frequent donation to Mark B for his kind and 
> > generous hosting of these autox.team lists. (Yes Mark, that reminds 
> > me). I'm not a member of VTR, so what they do is their own business.
I'm a  member of the VTR, TR8CCA (charter member!), the TSCUSA and the 
PEDC (local club, www.pedc.org, soon to be a VTR Zone). I don't own a 
Spitfire (I do like them, but they don't fit me that well anymore) and 
therefore I'm not in the NASS. I personally don't expect NASS to give me 
all the benefits of membership if and when I cruise in to their web site.

> The board of VTR is indeed listening... and reading!  If anyone wants to 
> send suggestions off list for whatever reason, as many have already, 
> please do so; I will reply to those emails privately and copy the board.
That there is any movement at all is heartening. After years of neglect, 
it's good to see something happening on the VTR web site. Good job, Blake.
_______________________________________________________________________

Wayne Simpson                                    StagHunter@comcast.net
  Editor, Triumph Stag Club USA
  Editor, Positive Earth Driver's Club
  Contributing Editor, TR8 Car Club of America
  Original owner, 1980 TR8 #TPVDV8AT213188
     Posieden Green, Golden Tan Check
  Second owner, 1973 Stag #LE 21416 U
     Carmine Red, Saddle Tan                              Classic cars:
Brick Township, NJ                        Don't crush 'em, Restore 'em!
_______________________________________________________________________

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