--===============1880865951110963906==
--001a113f7a923a2e1c051f2b4d39
Johnnie, I have tried using the modern PCV valves which is what is
currently installed. I purchased the PCV kit from Richard Good due to
reviews I had read online. The only difference between my TR4 PCV setup
and the one in your picture is my TR4 has had the brakes converted to TR6
vacuum boost brakes so I have a Tee in the line between the PCV valve and
the intake manifold that goes to the brake booster.
Do you still have the road draft tube or is the tube opening plugged?
Also, is your valve cover cap vented (i.e. TR4A style) or non-vented?
Brad
On Mon, Sep 7, 2015 at 9:58 AM, John & Pat Donnelly <pdonnel1@san.rr.com>
wrote:
> I too had oil coming out from every nook and cranny. The rear main was
> leaking like a sieve. Blue smoke followed me everywhere. I had oil coming
> out of the dip stick! So I tried Marx's rear seal. Helped the rear main
> leaked. But was still there. I tore the engine apart twice. Chasing this
> oil leak problem was getting ridiculous. Grrrr.
>
>
>
> So, what causes the oil leaks? Too much internal pressure (and assuming
> you can assemble an engine properly). If you remove the gulp valve the
> leaks go away. But that's not the design, so what if you go to another gulp
> valve? So I went to my local store and found a cheap inline PVC valve for
> $5. Works like a champ. I no longer see blue smoke, in fact there's no more
> leaks - at all. I spent hundreds of bucks when all it took was a little $5
> part. I feel like a fool for not thinking of this earlier.
>
>
>
> Johnnie
>
> '67 TR4A
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Triumphs [mailto:triumphs-bounces@autox.team.net] *On Behalf Of *Brad
> Kahler
> *Sent:* Monday, September 07, 2015 4:51 AM
> *To:* Geo Hahn
> *Cc:* Triumphs
> *Subject:* Re: [TR] TR4 road draft tube plug
>
>
>
> My objective is to track down and eliminate oil leaks. I fix one oil leak
> and another one or two show up.
>
>
>
> I've had oil leaking from the timing chain cover center stud, the bolts
> that mount the coil to the block were leaking, I always seem to have oil on
> the heads of the oil pan bolts and there might be oil coming from the rear
> main seal. Also the timing cover seal was leaking as well. The engine is
> new with maybe 1500 miles on it and was built by a well known Triumph
> engine builder. The timing cover leak was fixed by adding a speedi-sleeve
> to the crank pulley.
>
>
>
> Unfortunately I've not been impressed at all with the engine builders
> work. When I first got the car (with new engine installed already) I
> couldn't get it to stop smoking. After multiple head gasket swaps thinking
> it was coolant into the cylinders causing the smoking I finally realized
> after the third head gasket that each time I pulled the head to replace the
> gasket there was always about 4 tablespoons of oil sitting on top of each
> piston. I was so focused on coolant being the problem that I totally
> missed what the oil on the pistons meant.
>
>
>
> Looking closer I realized the cylinder walls were bright and shiny with no
> cross hatching. These were new 87mm liners and pistons that unfortunately
> were never finished honed. I pulled the pistons, cross hatched the
> cylinder walls with a hone and that solved the smoking issue. But the
> engine has always leaked oil from seemingly everywhere. However no oil
> seems to flow out of the draft tube. That may be a clue but I can't think
> of what it might be.
>
>
>
> The car came with a TriumphTune cast valve cover but didn't have a
> manifold or carburetors. So I installed a set of HS6s that were on the
> shelf. I initially tried the original style of air filters with the port
> in the center and the flame trap. The TriumphTune valve cover doesn't have
> a baffle at the breather port and I ended up with an excessive amount of
> oil going into the carburetors.
>
> I then swapped air filters to the larger oval shaped filters and installed
> one of Richard Good's PCV kits. I still seemed to have some oil show up at
> the carburetors so I have now installed an original chromed valve cover.
> This seems to have slowed down the oil going to the carburetors but the
> leaks elsewhere seemed to increase.
>
>
>
> Since I have all the parts on hand to try the gulp valve and vented valve
> cover cap I thought I would give that a try. Yesterday I temporarily
> capped off the road draft tube but I'm still waiting on a replacement
> diaphragm for the gulp valve. One of these days I'll do a leak down test
> and a compression test but I don't think the rings are the problem. When I
> honed the cylinders I installed new Total Seal rings.
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sun, Sep 6, 2015 at 12:24 PM, Geo Hahn <ahwahneetr@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Brad -
>
>
>
> Just curious - what is your objective in trying this?
>
>
>
> It may spare the environment some oil fumes as you drive and may or may
> not decrease the oil drip on your garage floor (may even increase it
> depending on engine condition).
>
>
>
> Geo
>
>
>
> On Sun, Sep 6, 2015 at 4:56 AM, Brad Kahler <bkahler1@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Geo, I'm wondering if your definition of "easier" is the same as mine! :)
>
>
>
> It's my understanding that the early TR4s were identical to the TR3, i.e.
> push-on valve cover breather and road draft tube. The mid to late TR4s had
> the air filters with the tube in the center with a flame trap coming from
> the valve cover, no road draft tube and and the valve cover cap was a
> sealed type.
>
>
>
> The TR4As had a vented cap, gulp valve and no road draft tube.
>
>
>
> I'm going to do some testing by installing the vented valve cover cap,
> installing the gulp valve and I've temporary capped the end of the road
> draft tube. It will be a few days before I can test this setup as I'm
> still waiting for the replacement gulp valve diaphragm to arrive.
>
>
>
> Brad
>
>
>
> On Sun, Sep 6, 2015 at 12:30 AM, Geo Hahn <ahwahneetr@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I have done the opposite, removing the plug and installing a road draft
> tube on my late TR4.
>
>
>
> If anything what you have in mind should be even easier, but...
>
>
>
> I installed the tube because the small opening on the TR4 valve cover
> could simply not relieve enough crankcase pressure - oil was oozing from
> every pore. Perhaps the TR4A system is more effective though.
>
>
>
> Geo
>
>
>
> On Sat, Sep 5, 2015 at 4:32 PM, Brad Kahler <bkahler1@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I'm contemplating removing the road draft tube on my TR4 and am wondering
> if anyone has successfully removed the tube and installed the plug with the
> engine still in the car.
>
>
>
> It kinda looks like it would be a job for a contortionist!
>
>
>
> Thanks!
>
>
>
> Brad
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
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>
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
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>
> ** triumphs@autox.team.net **
>
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
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>
>
--001a113f7a923a2e1c051f2b4d39
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<div dir=3D"ltr">Johnnie, I have tried using the modern PCV valves which is=
what is currently installed.=C2=A0 I purchased the PCV kit from Richard Go=
od due to reviews I had read online.=C2=A0 The only difference between my T=
R4 PCV setup and the one in your picture is my TR4 has had the brakes conve=
rted to TR6 vacuum boost brakes so I have a Tee in the line between the PCV=
valve and the intake manifold that goes to the brake booster. =C2=A0<div><=
br></div><div>Do you still have the road draft tube or is the tube opening =
plugged?</div><div><br></div><div>Also, is your valve cover cap vented (i.e=
. TR4A style) or non-vented?</div><div><br></div><div>Brad</div><div><br><d=
iv class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Mon, Sep 7, 2015=
at 9:58 AM, John & Pat Donnelly <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailt=
o:pdonnel1@san.rr.com" target=3D"_blank">pdonnel1@san.rr.com</a>></span>=
wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;bor=
der-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue"=
vlink=3D"purple"><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0=
pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">I to=
o had oil coming out from every nook and cranny. The rear main was leaking =
like a sieve. Blue smoke followed me everywhere. I had oil coming out of th=
e dip stick! So I tried Marx's rear seal. Helped the rear main leaked. =
But was still there. I tore the engine apart twice. Chasing this oil leak p=
roblem was getting ridiculous. Grrrr.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"M=
soNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",&qu=
ot;sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p class=
=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial"=
;,"sans-serif";color:#1f497d">So, what causes the oil leaks? Too =
much internal pressure (and assuming you can assemble an engine properly). =
If you remove the gulp valve the leaks go away. But that's not the desi=
gn, so what if you go to another gulp valve? So I went to my local store an=
d found a cheap inline PVC valve for $5. Works like a champ. I no longer se=
e blue smoke, in fact there's no more leaks - at all. I spent hundreds =
of bucks when all it took was a little =C2=A0$5 part. I feel like a fool fo=
r not thinking of this earlier.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNorm=
al"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","san=
s-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p class=3D"Mso=
Normal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","=
;sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Johnnie<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=
=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial"=
;,"sans-serif";color:#1f497d">'67 TR4A<u></u><u></u></span></=
p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"=
Arial","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></spa=
n></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&q=
uot;Arial","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u><=
/span></p><div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0i=
n 0in 0in 4.0pt"><div><div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df 1.=
0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in"><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"fon=
t-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:<=
/span></b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",&q=
uot;sans-serif""> Triumphs [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:triumphs-bounces@=
autox.team.net" target=3D"_blank">triumphs-bounces@autox.team.net</a>] <b>O=
n Behalf Of </b>Brad Kahler<br><b>Sent:</b> Monday, September 07, 2015 4:51=
AM<br><b>To:</b> Geo Hahn<br><b>Cc:</b> Triumphs<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [T=
R] TR4 road draft tube plug<u></u><u></u></span></p></div></div><p class=3D=
"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">My objectiv=
e is to track down and eliminate oil leaks.=C2=A0 I fix one oil leak and an=
other one or two show up.<u></u><u></u></p><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u><=
/u>=C2=A0<u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">I've had oil leak=
ing from the timing chain cover center stud, the bolts that mount the coil =
to the block were leaking, I always seem to have oil on the heads of the oi=
l pan bolts and there might be oil coming from the rear main seal.=C2=A0 Al=
so the timing cover seal was leaking as well.=C2=A0 The engine is new with =
maybe 1500 miles on it and was built by a well known Triumph engine builder=
.=C2=A0 The timing cover leak was fixed by adding a speedi-sleeve to the cr=
ank pulley.<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=
=A0<u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Unfortunately I've not =
been impressed at all with the engine builders work.=C2=A0 When I first got=
the car (with new engine installed already) I couldn't get it to stop =
smoking.=C2=A0 After multiple head gasket swaps thinking it was coolant int=
o the cylinders causing the smoking I finally realized after the third head=
gasket that each time I pulled the head to replace the gasket there was al=
ways about 4 tablespoons of oil sitting on top of each piston.=C2=A0 I was =
so focused on coolant being the problem that I totally missed what the oil =
on the pistons meant. =C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNor=
mal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Looking clos=
er I realized the cylinder walls were bright and shiny with no cross hatchi=
ng.=C2=A0 These were new 87mm liners and pistons that unfortunately were ne=
ver finished honed.=C2=A0 I pulled the pistons, cross hatched the cylinder =
walls with a hone and that solved the smoking issue.=C2=A0 But the engine h=
as always leaked oil from seemingly everywhere.=C2=A0 However no oil seems =
to flow out of the draft tube.=C2=A0 That may be a clue but I can't thi=
nk of what it might be.<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">=
<u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">The car came with=
a TriumphTune cast valve cover but didn't have a manifold or carbureto=
rs.=C2=A0 So I installed a set of HS6s that were on the shelf.=C2=A0 I init=
ially tried the original style of air filters with the port in the center a=
nd the flame trap.=C2=A0 The TriumphTune valve cover doesn't have a baf=
fle at the breather port and I ended up with an excessive amount of oil goi=
ng into the carburetors. =C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"Mso=
Normal">I then swapped air filters to the larger oval shaped filters and in=
stalled one of Richard Good's PCV kits.=C2=A0 I still seemed to have so=
me oil show up at the carburetors so I have now installed an original chrom=
ed valve cover.=C2=A0 This seems to have slowed down the oil going to the c=
arburetors but the leaks elsewhere seemed to increase. =C2=A0<u></u><u></u>=
</p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p></div><div><p=
class=3D"MsoNormal">Since I have all the parts on hand to try the gulp val=
ve and vented valve cover cap I thought I would give that a try.=C2=A0 Yest=
erday I temporarily capped off the road draft tube but I'm still waitin=
g on a replacement diaphragm for the gulp valve.=C2=A0 One of these days I&=
#39;ll do a leak down test and a compression test but I don't think the=
rings are the problem.=C2=A0 When I honed the cylinders I installed new To=
tal Seal rings.<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=
=C2=A0<u></u></p></div></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></=
u></p><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Sun, Sep 6, 2015 at 12:24 PM, Geo Hahn=
<<a href=3D"mailto:ahwahneetr@gmail.com"; target=3D"_blank">ahwahneetr@g=
mail.com</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p><div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">B=
rad -<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></=
u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Just curious - what is your objecti=
ve in trying this?<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></=
u>=C2=A0<u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">It may spare the envir=
onment some oil fumes as you drive and may or may not decrease the oil drip=
on your garage floor (may even=C2=A0increase it depending on engine condit=
ion).<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></=
u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Geo<u></u><u></u></p></div></div><d=
iv><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p><div><p class=3D"MsoNorma=
l">On Sun, Sep 6, 2015 at 4:56 AM, Brad Kahler <<a href=3D"mailto:bkahle=
r1@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">bkahler1@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<u></u><u>=
</u></p><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Geo, I'm wondering if your definiti=
on of "easier" is the same as mine! :)<u></u><u></u></p><div><p c=
lass=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal=
">It's my understanding that the early TR4s were identical to the TR3, =
i.e. push-on valve cover breather and road draft tube.=C2=A0 The mid to lat=
e TR4s had the air filters with the tube in the center with a flame trap co=
ming from the valve cover, no road draft tube and and the valve cover cap w=
as a sealed type. =C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"=
><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">The TR4As had a =
vented cap, gulp valve and no road draft tube.<u></u><u></u></p></div><div>=
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNo=
rmal">I'm going to do some testing by installing the vented valve cover=
cap, installing the gulp valve and I've temporary capped the end of th=
e road draft tube.=C2=A0 It will be a few days before I can test this setup=
as I'm still waiting for the replacement gulp valve diaphragm to arriv=
e.<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:=
#888888"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><=
span style=3D"color:#888888">Brad<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><div><=
p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">O=
n Sun, Sep 6, 2015 at 12:30 AM, Geo Hahn <<a href=3D"mailto:ahwahneetr@g=
mail.com" target=3D"_blank">ahwahneetr@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></=
u></p><div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">I have done the opposite, removing t=
he plug and installing a road draft tube on my late TR4.<u></u><u></u></p><=
/div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p></div><div><p clas=
s=3D"MsoNormal">If anything what you have in mind should be even easier, bu=
t...<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u=
></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">I installed the tube because the sma=
ll opening on the TR4 valve cover could simply not relieve enough crankcase=
pressure - oil was oozing from every pore.=C2=A0=C2=A0 Perhaps the TR4A sy=
stem is more effective though.<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoN=
ormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Geo<u></u>=
<u></u></p></div></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>=
<div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Sat, Sep 5, 2015 at 4:32 PM, Brad Kahler <=
;<a href=3D"mailto:bkahler1@gmail.com"; target=3D"_blank">bkahler1@gmail.com=
</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">I'm contem=
plating removing the road draft tube on my TR4 and am wondering if anyone h=
as successfully removed the tube and installed the plug with the engine sti=
ll in the car. =C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=
=C2=A0<u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">It kinda looks like it w=
ould be a job for a contortionist!<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"=
MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thanks=
!<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#=
888888"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><s=
pan style=3D"color:#888888">Brad<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p clas=
s=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#888888"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></=
p></div></div></div></div></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u>=
</p></div></div></div></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>=
</div></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p></div></div></di=
v>
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