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FWD: [wises@mail.execpc.com: TR2 engine]

To: triumphs@autox.team.net
Subject: FWD: [wises@mail.execpc.com: TR2 engine]
From: List Administration <lists@autox.team.net>
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 01:10:55 -0700 (MST)
For some reason, this was sent to me rather than triumphs@autox.team.net.
Reply to author, not me.

mjb.
----

------- Start of forwarded message -------
     Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 10:37:24 -0600
     From: Bob and Nancy <wises@mail.execpc.com>
     Subject: TR2 engine

Rob,

I just had a very good local shop do a rebuild of my TR3 engine for 
~~$3,500 and I can tell you what I learned.  First of all, my 
philosophy was that I was going to do it once and do it right, so I 
spent what I needed to achieve that goal.  I should also point out 
that I am in my 16th (yes, sixteenth!) year of restoring my TR3.  A 
lot of that delay is because I wait around until money comes up that 
allows me to do things right.

New parts (<$1,100) included:

87 mm piston, sleeves, rings, and wristpin set from British Parts Northwest
reground camshaft (slightly hotter than stock) from British Frame and Engine
new cam bearings
a "real" rear oil seal (BPN)
4 exhaust valve guides
timing chain (BFE)
tappets (BPN)
all gaskets (BPN)
all engine bearings
thrust washers
relined clutch

Labor (49.5 hours x $49 per hour = $2,425.50) included:

hot tanking and painting block
valve job (only slight grinding was necessary as head was recently rebuilt)
dynometer test of distributor (needed 2 new springs)
balancing all rotating parts
checking everything for cracks using magnaflux
all assembly

A quick comparison (see below) shows it cost about the same as a TRF 
rebuilt unit and I got more work than TRF provides (I think).

First of all, is your shop an LBC shop?  Not to insult your mechanic, 
but there's no substitute for experience with these engines.

At least my machinist says he will have no problem with rebuilding my
cylinder head.  The #3 exhaust valve is burned as I suspected from the
low compression test which remained low on a wet test.  The shop says
all of my exhaust valves are seating too deeply into the head and new
seats are needed for all four.

A head rebuild is practically a no brainer.  I had mine done 10 years 
ago for about $300.  Don't know what yours will cost, but there are 
so many things a bad head can do to an engine that a couple hundred 
bucks for a complete rebuild is the only way to go.  If it's a high 
mileage engine, the rocker arm shaft is probably shot, as are the 
valves, valves guides, and valve seats.

I was planning on new cylinder sleeves, pistons, rings, etc., but TRF
says they have none in stock and it may be some time before they are
available.  Before the tear down my compression was 175 - 200 psi  on #s
1, 2, and 4.  The 65 psi on #3 was the valve problem.  Would I be silly
to redo the valves, the crank bearings, the cam and leave the cylinder
sleeves alone??

IMHO, probably.  I bought my 87 mm set on sale from BPN  for $410 a 
couple of years ago.  I think they will also fit a TR2.  At various 
times, various people on the list have proposed having old sleeves 
bored out oversized (by a motorcycle shop) then buying oversized 
pistons, or bigger rings and then putting together an engine out of 
(what I consider to be) a bunch of mismatched parts.  I don't doubt 
it can be done by an expert, but I am too much of a novice to have 
the confidence to do it that way.  Besides, you are paying a mechanic 
to do professional level work.  I don't believe it is proper to then 
turn around and ask him to cut corners on parts and labor.  You get 
what you pay for.

On an engine that has had
several thousand miles on it are the cylinder sleeves going to come
loose that easily??

No, they are probably stuck in there like cement.

Perhaps with all the problems that my engine seems to have and the
expense to make it minimally reliable, I would be better off going for a
TRF short block at around $2,000.  Would that include a ground crank,
new bearings, new or reconditioned cam, new cylinder sleeves,  pistons
and rings?

I'm pretty sure TRF does all that and more.  I believe the TRF 
catalog details what they do on an engine rebuild.  If not, a quick 
phone call to them will give you that information.

My car is (was?) a marginal candidate for restoration.  I would like to
avoid putting excessive amounts of money into it.

You're in the wrong hobby!

For $3,500 I now have a bullet proof engine that will out live me. 
The TRF winter sale has rebuilt short blocks for $2,100, heads are 
$325, and then you need pushrods, tappets, and head gasket.  Or you 
can buy the complete engine for $2,750.  A clutch will run you $210 
during the TRF sale.  So that's almost $3,000, plus tax and two way 
shipping on block and head and you are looking at $3,200 or $3,300. 
That's getting pretty close to the $3,500 I spent and I think I had 
more work done than TRF puts into their rebuilt units--certainly the 
dizzy repair is not included in their engine rebuilid.  I don't know 
about balancing and magnafluxing.

I've also talked to plenty of guys who say, "Ah hell, just throw new 
rings in it and drive the sucker!"

Good luck

Bob Wise
Appleton Wisconsin

List of instructions to engine rebuild shop


1.      General
a.      balance all rotating parts (crankshaft, connecting rods, 
pistons, flywheel, fan hub extension, fan, and crankshaft pulley)
b.      disassemble entire unit, restore (per instructions below), 
reassemble, and paint gloss black with high temperature engine paint
c.      renew all lock washers and lock tabs

2.      Block
a.      hot tank
b.      install head bolts;  check for even height
c.      replace cam bearings with new
d.      replace camshaft end plug with new
e.      check for cracks emanating from headbolt holes (common to this block)
f.      check portion of block where cylinder sleeves seat for 
burrs--file if necessary, then install new cylinder sleeves using 
figure 8 gaskets;  secure sleeves with cylinder head

3.      Crankshaft
a.      magnaflux and check for straightness
b.      grind and polish journals to nearest undersize--purchase 
proper size bearings
c.      install rear main oil seal as provided (machine work required)
d.      check endfloat and renew thrust washers

4.      Connecting rods
a.      magnaflux and check for straightness
b.      check small end bush--renew if necessary
c.      renew bearings at crankshaft

5.      Camshaft
a.      replace with reground part provided

6.      Timing chain and gears
a.      check timing gears and chain and chain tensioner for wear, 
renew if needed
b.      replace timing cover oil seal

7.      Oil pan
a.      straighten face to ensure good seal

8.      Oil pump
a.      check for wear

9.      Pistons and rings
a.      install new units as provided, hone cylinders

10.     Cooling fan
a.      straighten blades
b.      figure out how in the hell it mounts to fan hub extension

11.     Front engine plate
a.      repair hole for generator mounting bolt

12.     Flywheel
a.      balance

13.     Clutch
a.      rebuild

14.     Clinder head
a.      clean (minor)
b.      pull valves and check valves and seats;  lap if necessary
c.      replace exhaust valve guides


Carpe cervasium
------- End of forwarded message -------

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