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I would not assume the problem is the radiator. I=E2=80=99d also look =
carefully at the Evans coolant before scrapping the radiator.
=20
As Michael pointed out, and I=E2=80=99m positive you already know, Evans =
(largely propylene glycol) has poor specific heat compared to water =
(0.66?). It just doesn=E2=80=99t pickup the heat from the engine and =
move it into the radiator nearly as well as pure water.
=20
A few years ago Claudia and I tested Evans in a Tiger. We found it =
lacking.=20
First we did some idle duration tests. We did one with pure water, one =
with partial coolant and finally one with only Evans. As we suspected, =
the time to heat to 230 decreased markedly with the Evans. Then we took =
our test on the road in a nearly a 4,800 mile trip around the country in =
August of 2019.
We frequently ran with air temps over 100F and hit 116F at one point. We =
drove from LA to Reno, Bonneville, Salt Lake, Mount Rushmore, the =
Badlands and across the plains to La Crosse. On the return we went =
through Denver then south to Albuquerque and followed the traditional =
Route 66 back to SoCal.=20
=20
At altitudes around 5,000 feet with air temperatures near or slightly =
over 100, the Evans coolant met it=E2=80=99s match. It could not remove =
the engine heat fast enough to keep the engine from stopping due to fuel =
percolation inside the carb=E2=80=99s bowls. In Pueblo, Colorado, we =
had about half the Evans removed and replaced it with water. Certainly =
the density altitude had an effect. (This mixture did later =
=E2=80=9Cpuke=E2=80=9D once but that was when I tried crossing the =
Mojave desert when the OAT was 116. After that happened I limped along =
using the water temperature gauge as my only speedometer.)
=20
Owain, you may want to drain out the Evans and repeat your run of =
mountain passes with water before tossing out that radiator. If you do, =
I=E2=80=99d greatly appreciate leaning your results. (For me, all the =
theory in the world tends to go out the window when faced with a good =
empirical test!)
=20
Good luck!
=20
Buck
=20
=20
From: Tigers <tigers-bounces@autox.team.net> On Behalf Of Owain Lloyd =
via Tigers
Sent: Friday, July 2, 2021 3:42 AM
To: michael king <michael.s.king@gmail.com>
Cc: tigers@autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Tigers] BMR radiator
=20
Fluidyne - right.
indeed. there is no pressure increase at that temperature with Evans. =
you can literally remove the cap with your bare hand. =20
the specific heat capacity isn't quite as good (it's hard to beat water =
after all), but the advantages in terms of lack of corrosion (and lack =
of expansion) are worth that for me.
the point is that i ran Evans before with the Dale rad and it never ran =
that hot. it was running fine at the high temp (I drove it home at that =
temp - no problems - fueling perfect) but it reaches a point where you =
just don't want the engine too hot. iron block, aluminium heads and =
pistons - the hotter it gets the more the expansion differences will =
become.
=20
On Fri, Jul 2, 2021 at 12:23 PM michael king <michael.s.king@gmail.com =
Hey Owain,
=20
Not sure about the BMR, but the Dales ones were actually Fluidyne =
radiators.=20
=20
The Griffin ones were a separate company and IIRC had the glued together =
cores.
=20
I hear different things about evans.. one of the things i have heard is =
that the coolant runs hotter, but that it doesn't boil, so i guess to =
ask:
Apart from it registering physically hotter, was it suffering any =
adverse effects?
Did it start vaporising the fuel?
Did it start running rough?
Did it puke the coolant?
=20
=20
=20
On Fri, 2 Jul 2021 at 17:54, Owain Lloyd via Tigers =
Last year my Dale A (Griffin?) radiator cracked and I replaced it with =
this one from BMR in the UK:
=20
https://www.motorsportradiators.co.uk/store/Sunbeam-Tiger-Aluminium-Radia=
tor-p146886570
Not really used the car since except a couple of short trips.
This week I was going to take the tiger out for a run over some mountain =
passes but after about 30 minutes, no traffic, it was running at well =
over 100C / ~230F. I returned home and checked everything over.
1. Full of fresh Evans waterless coolant. =20
2. gauge is mechanical
3. horn holes blocked, along with gap between rad and crossmember.
4. fan shroud in place with 13" flex fan on water pump hub.
5. doesn't overheat at idle even when left running for 30 minutes.
I've NEVER had a problem with overheating at speed before. the only =
issues I had were at idle or in traffic / slow speed but even those had =
been solved by all the above. engine is a 490hp 347, but wasn't a =
problem before.
everything is pointing at the BMR radiator just being a bit crap and not =
doing as good a job as the Dale rad. anyone running one of these?
=20
_______________________________________________
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers =
http://autox.team.net/archive
Unsubscribe: =
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/michael.s.king@gmail.com
=20
--=20
Regards
Michael King
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vlink=3Dpurple style=3D'word-wrap:break-word'><div =
class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal>I would not assume the problem =
is the radiator. I=E2=80=99d also look carefully at the Evans coolant =
before scrapping the radiator.<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>As Michael =
pointed out, and I=E2=80=99m positive you already know, Evans (largely =
propylene glycol) has poor specific heat compared to water (0.66?). It =
just doesn=E2=80=99t pickup the heat from the engine and move it into =
the radiator nearly as well as pure water.<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>A few years =
ago Claudia and I tested Evans in a Tiger. We found it lacking. =
<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><br>First we did some idle duration =
tests. We did one with pure water, one with partial coolant and finally =
one with only Evans. As we suspected, the time to heat to 230 decreased =
markedly with the Evans. Then we took our test on the road in a nearly a =
4,800 mile trip around the country in August of 2019.<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>We frequently ran with air temps over 100F and hit =
116F at one point. We drove from LA to Reno, Bonneville, Salt Lake, =
Mount Rushmore, the Badlands and across the plains to La Crosse. On the =
return we went through Denver then south to Albuquerque and followed the =
traditional Route 66 back to SoCal. <o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>At altitudes =
around 5,000 feet with air temperatures near or slightly over 100, the =
Evans coolant met it=E2=80=99s match. It could not remove the engine =
heat fast enough to keep the engine from stopping due to fuel =
percolation inside the carb=E2=80=99s bowls.=C2=A0 In Pueblo, Colorado, =
we had about half the Evans removed and replaced it with water. =
Certainly the density altitude had an effect. (This mixture did later =
=E2=80=9Cpuke=E2=80=9D once but that was when I tried crossing the =
Mojave desert when the OAT was 116. After that happened I limped along =
using the water temperature gauge as my only =
speedometer.)<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Owain, you may want to drain out the Evans and repeat =
your run of mountain passes with water before tossing out that radiator. =
If you do, I=E2=80=99d greatly appreciate leaning your results. (For me, =
all the theory in the world tends to go out the window when faced with a =
good empirical test!)<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>Good =
luck!<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Buck<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b>From:</b> Tigers =
<tigers-bounces@autox.team.net> <b>On Behalf Of </b>Owain Lloyd =
via Tigers<br><b>Sent:</b> Friday, July 2, 2021 3:42 AM<br><b>To:</b> =
michael king <michael.s.king@gmail.com><br><b>Cc:</b> =
tigers@autox.team.net<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Tigers] BMR =
radiator<o:p></o:p></p></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Fluidyne - right.<o:p></o:p></p><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>indeed. there is no pressure increase at that =
temperature with Evans. you can literally remove the cap with =
your bare hand. <o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>the =
specific heat capacity isn't quite as good (it's hard to beat water =
after all), but the advantages in terms of lack of corrosion (and lack =
of expansion) are worth that for me.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>the point is that i ran Evans before with the Dale rad =
and it never ran that hot. it was running fine at the high temp (I =
drove it home at that temp - no problems - fueling perfect) but it =
reaches a point where you just don't want the engine too hot. =
iron block, aluminium heads and pistons - the hotter it gets the =
more the expansion differences will =
become.<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>On =
Fri, Jul 2, 2021 at 12:23 PM michael king <<a =
href=3D"mailto:michael.s.king@gmail.com";>michael.s.king@gmail.com</a>>=
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in'><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>Hey =
Owain,<o:p></o:p></p><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>Not =
sure about the BMR, but the Dales ones were actually Fluidyne =
radiators. <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>The Griffin ones were a separate company and IIRC had =
the glued together cores.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>I =
hear different things about evans.. one of the things i have =
heard is that the coolant runs hotter, but that it =
doesn't boil, so i guess to ask:<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Apart from it registering physically hotter, was it =
suffering any adverse effects?<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Did it start vaporising the =
fuel?<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>Did it start running =
rough?<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>Did it puke the =
coolant?<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>On =
Fri, 2 Jul 2021 at 17:54, Owain Lloyd via Tigers <<a =
href=3D"mailto:tigers@autox.team.net"; =
target=3D"_blank">tigers@autox.team.net</a>> =
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in'><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>Last =
year my Dale A (Griffin?) radiator cracked and I replaced it with this =
one from BMR in the UK:<br> <br><a =
href=3D"https://www.motorsportradiators.co.uk/store/Sunbeam-Tiger-Alumini=
um-Radiator-p146886570" =
target=3D"_blank">https://www.motorsportradiators.co.uk/store/Sunbeam-Tig=
er-Aluminium-Radiator-p146886570</a><br><br>Not really used the car =
since except a couple of short trips.<o:p></o:p></p><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><br>This week I was going to take the tiger out for a =
run over some mountain passes but after about 30 minutes, no traffic, it =
was running at well over 100C / ~230F. I returned home and checked =
everything over.<br><br>1. Full of fresh Evans waterless coolant. =
<br>2. gauge is mechanical<br>3. horn holes blocked, along with =
gap between rad and crossmember.<br>4. fan shroud in place with 13" =
flex fan on water pump hub.<br>5. doesn't overheat at idle even when =
left running for 30 minutes.<br><br>I've NEVER had a problem with =
overheating at speed before. the only issues I had were at =
idle or in traffic / slow speed but even those had been solved by =
all the above. engine is a 490hp 347, but wasn't a problem =
before.<br><br>everything is pointing at the BMR radiator just being a =
bit crap and not doing as good a job as the Dale rad. anyone =
running one of these?<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'>__________________________________________=
_____<br><br><a href=3D"mailto:tigers@autox.team.net"; =
target=3D"_blank">tigers@autox.team.net</a><br><br>Donate: <a =
href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html"; =
target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>Archive: <a =
href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers"; =
target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers</a> <a =
href=3D"http://autox.team.net/archive"; =
target=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/archive</a><br><br>Unsubscribe: =
<a =
href=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/michael.s.king@gmail=
.com" =
target=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/michael.s.=
king@gmail.com</a><br><br><o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><br clear=3Dall><o:p></o:p></p><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal>-- =
<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>Regards<br><br>Michael =
King<o:p></o:p></p></div></blockquote></div></div></body></html>
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