At 10:36 PM 11/1/2005 +0000, David Mayer wrote:
> Well, after searching around for a paint shop that will spray the Spit for
>the amount of money i want and being shot down time after time, I have
>decided to do more of the body prep work myself than i had originally wanted
>to do.
Dave,
For starters, body work is very labor intensive, that's why it costs sooo
much.
> That being said, i was wondering if i could get some lister knowledge on
>different body prep techniques.
>- Body filler: I only have a couple places that need bondo to smooth them
>out (rear end of the rocker panels where the guys welded them in).
There is nothing wrong with body filler! It has to be used in many places.
That being said, you don't want to have it too deep, like 2" to 4" because
someone was too lazy to do some metal beating or cuting and welding.
That being said, I usually use dynaglass, a very short haired fiberglass
filler for strength, and shaping. It sand very well. Then once everything
is looking very good, I use any body filler - something like Ultralyte.
When it comes to finishing there is a product called "Icing" that you can
use.
Each product has it's place. Again, dynaglass for rough work, or building
put an edge. Then Bondo to smooth the entire area. Finally Icing to give
you a nice top layer. The cost on the various materials varies also.
The last quart of dynaglass I purchased cost about $10. A gallon of bondo
was about $25 and a tube of Icing is about $25.
You might want to read some of the ariticles on my Morgan web page about
body work:
http://www.team.net/www/morgan/tech/
While some of this info is dated - it is still a good primer.
I'm switching the paint's I'm using. I've been a very loyal DuPont person.
DuPont now has a product line called Nasson, which is fairly inexpensive
compared to the Centari and Chroma lines. For example, I just purchased
a gal of Nasson polyeurathine color coat, a gal of reducer, and a quart
of hardner for $150 to paint my mini van, as compaired to the color coat for
my Bricklin in the Chroma at $250/gal for just the paint.
Primers are similarly priced - $100/gal for polyeurathine catalized (2K)
primer in the Nasson, vs $150 and up for it in any other line.
>I also found out that the DPO decided to fill in the whole front end of the
>hood where the letters T-R-I-U-M-P-H are because it had been smashed in,
>Should i attempt to undo that? or is undoing body filller a no no?
No it's not a no, no. In fact, somethings you should grind out the filler,
just to see how bad the damage really is underneath. When I restored my
Volvo P1800, I noticed what I thought was a crack in the metal in the front
fender. I started to grind the paint away, and found it was filler that
had cracked. After grinding 1/2" or more deep in the filler I finally got
down to the metal. The fender was a real mess. Luckily I had a friend/
mentor that was able to beat and shrink the metal back to a usable form.
You may find that the damage to the nose is too hard to fix. Trying to get
something into the leading edge of the nose on the Spit, can be a real
problem. Then if you want the nose right you only have a couple of choices:
a. Either cut out the damaged section, and try to form your own and weld
it in.
b. Look for a replacement hood.
c. Recover the damaged are with bondo.
>- Sanding: 180-grit ok for the whole car before priming? Or should i go
>finer than that? I am not planning on taking the whole car down to bare
>metal
Depending on how much paint is there, 180 should do, you could go up to
220 or down to 120, depending on how much paint you want to remove and
how fast you want to remove it.
In doing my Bricklin, which has an acrylic skin, I used 36 grit on an
in-line sander to really smooth the body and give the sealer something to
bite into. Then I shot 1 coat of polyester primer - high build. Then I
blocked the entire body with 180 and shot another coat. I blocked that
with 300. Then a coat of 2K primer, again blocked with 300, another coat
of primer blocked with 300. Now I'm about ready to shoot the color coat.
On the mini van I'm doing, I started with the roof, which was badly rusted.
The paint was peeling - like Chryslers do. I started with 80 grit on a
Dual Action (DA) air sander. When that wasn't cutting too well, I went to
paint stripper to take as much as quick as possible. Then I went to a
4" grinder with a knotted wire wheel. Finally back to the DA and 80 grit.
After it was stripped, I shot a couple of coats of polyeurathine primer.
>Priming: Spray it myself? Or leave that to the painter? Again...Brand
>names to use or not use? I figure i will at least try my hand at it in some
>un-noticable spots (trunk, underside of bonnet).
Why not try spraying the primer yourself? But, do you have a compressor?
If so how big. I have a Craftsman 5hp (220V) 30 gal tank oil lubed, and
it has to work to keep up with my air tools. Do you have a spray gun.
If not, I'd recommend the Harbor Freight gravity HVLP gun, regularily about
$100, but quite often on sale for about $50.
I really like that gun. Beats most of the syphon feed guns I've used.
You can either shoot it in your garage or in your yard. But if you shoot
outside, watch which way the wind is blowing, don't want to paint your
neighbors cars, and will get some bugs in it. But they aren't a problem.
When you sand before the next coat (either primer or color) they come right
off. Be sure to wear a cartridge type mask and be standing up wind.
If you shoot in your garage, you might want to cover the walls, tools, etc
with some plastic. Also if you are going to use the newer paints, you should
have an external air supply.
WARNING - WARNING - these new paints can kill you. I don't know how much
cynide (sp) is in them, but it is absorbed through your skin. Different
amounts effect different people differently. Also, if you get the fumes in
to your lungs, your lungs and solidify as the paint hardens. I know of a
couple that have been killed like this. And I know several painters that
ended up with problems from the various chemicals in the newer paints.
SO, JUST BE CAREFUL!!!!!
The more work you do yourself, the less you have to pay out to the painter.
Even try the top coat. The one nice thing about painting is you can sand
off your mistakes!
You might want to look around at your local community colleges. Many have
courses in auto body work, and painting. You supply the car and materials.
They show you how to do it. Worth the money, usually about $150ish. You
end up in a nice shop. Have someone to help you through the problem areas,
etc.
As to products, again I like DuPont, PPG is good also. In the past I've also
used Ditzler. I'm not a big fan of Sherman Williams, and I don't know why.
>Than sanding the primer? how fine should i go for before paint?
The newer paints don't cut into each other like the lacquers did. With
lacquer you could block everything with 600. But now 220 to 300 is fine
enough for the primer and gives the top coat something to bite to.
One thing you did not ask was base coat/clear coat vs single stage.
I personally don't like base coat/clear coats. I just see too many
clear coats breaking down. With the single stage you can buff the out.
The main advantage to the base/clear coat is the base dries very quickly
and you get your depth from the clear coat.
Hope this helps answer some of your questions.
John
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