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Other makes do this as well. Modern cars have a 'battery management
system' or similar because so much is now run on electricity--steering,
for instance--that you have to have assured power at all times. I learnt
of all this when I asked a simple (I thought) question on a Mustang
forum about using a 12V source in parallel so I wouldn't lose all my
settings--drive mode, satellite, etc.--when I needed to swap a leaker.
F150s, for example, have a pretty elaborate process to even charge a
battery:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_KmO-KaR4A
After a lengthy, er, discussion I said 'F-it' and just swapped batteries
like I always have; I lost my custom drive mode but was none the worse
off for wear. But, I recommend you read your owners' manual before doing
anything on the electrical system of a car built in the last 10 years or so.
Bob
On 1/13/2024 1:54 AM, Moose wrote:
> One more note of stupidity on this topic. Â Modern Range Rover requires
> their computer to change a battery!
>
> That's right, you need to tell their computer there is a new battery.
>
> I'm not sure if other makes are going this way, but it is one item on
> the long list of reasons I'll never own another RR!
>
> Moose
>
>
>
> From: Dwade Reinsch <dreinsch@swbell.net>
> To: David Scheidt <dmscheidt@gmail.com>, old dirtbeard
> <dirtbeard@gmail.com>
> Cc: "shop-talk@autox.team.net" <shop-talk@autox.team.net>
> Date: 01/12/2024 23:12
> Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Stranded by a bad car battery.
> Sent by: "Shop-talk" <shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
> Thanks to all who added to my knowledge base for modern cars and
> batteries.
>
> I replaced the old battery the next morning, started right up, and
> continues to run perfectly. Â I guess I'll just have to have battery
> tested after about three years of use.
>
> Thanks again!!
>
> Dwade
>
>
>
> On Wednesday, January 10, 2024 at 04:10:50 PM CST, old dirtbeard
> <dirtbeard@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Hi David,
>
> Yes, I do understand about the lead acid chargers. I have accumulated
> many over the last 50 years. ð???
>
> Best,
>
> Doug
> mobile
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:* Shop-talk <shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net> on behalf of
> David Scheidt <dmscheidt@gmail.com>*
> Sent:* Wednesday, January 10, 2024 9:17:13 AM*
> To:* Dwade Reinsch <dreinsch@swbell.net>*
> Cc:* shop-talk@autox.team.net <shop-talk@autox.team.net>*
> Subject:* Re: [Shop-talk] Stranded by a bad car battery.
>
>
>
> On Jan 10, 2024, at 00:48, Dwade Reinsch <dreinsch@swbell.net> wrote:
>
> 
> This afternoon I was sitting in the 2016 Honda Odyssey van waiting for
> granddaughter to finish a theater activity and I went to sleep in the
> front seat. Â Had the radio and inside lights on. Â When she finished
> and came out, car would not start. Â Completely dead. Â Electric seat
> would not come back to driving position, etc.
>
> Here's the question: Â In the old days a weak battery would give notice
> by cranking slowly, etc., before failing. Â This is the car I drive
> regularly and it gave NO warning. Â Luckily, I could call son-in-law
> and he came to help. Â Would not start with good set of booster cables.
> Â Would not start with 15 minutes of charging on cables before
> attempting to start. Â So in the morning I'll take pickup and tools and
> pull battery, get a replacement, and move the van home.
>
> Does anyone have a suggestion for identifying a failing battery before
> being stranded? Â (Battery is about 4 years old.)
>
>
> If used properly, the conductance testers work well. Â Not cheap, but
> every auto parts store will test for you, assuming your battery is
> accessible. Â Many cars, starting just a bit later than your ofdesy,
> have state of charge and battery performance information tracked by
> the computer. Â (OnStar sent me email telling me the battery is low
> when I left my car on to listen to the ballgame at a campsite. I also
> get a monthly email, which told me to replace the battery for a couple
> months before I actually had it replaced.)
>
> Modern cars have much higher loads at start time, and lots of them
> require a reasonably good voltage to turn the computer on. Â Without
> that, the car wonâ??t do anything (the computer controls the starter
> solenoid on most cars). Â The various computers also control all the
> other parts, which is why the seat couldnâ??t move.
>
> This fall, I drove my wifeâ??s fusion to the garage to do the brakes. I
> turned off and on a couple times to get it spotted in the right spot.
> The third time I tried to start it, battery was dead. 20 seconds
> earlier, it fired on instantly, with no slow cranking. Â Since I was in
> the garage, I had a battery charger handy. 10.2 volts or something
> like that. Putting the charger on lowest setting let it start. Â Plenty
> of joules in the battery, just not enough voltage to turn the ecm on.
> (I replaced the battery before pulling it out of the garage, it was 4
> or 5 years old.)
> _______________________________________________
>
> Shop-talk@autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html <http://www.team.net/donate.html>
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk
> <http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk>http://autox.team.net/archive
> <http://autox.team.net/archive>
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/eric@megageek.com
> <http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/eric@megageek.com>
>
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Other makes do this as well. Modern cars have a 'battery management
system' or similar because so much is now run on
electricity--steering, for instance--that you have to have assured
power at all times. I learnt of all this when I asked a simple (I
thought) question on a Mustang forum about using a 12V source in
parallel so I wouldn't lose all my settings--drive mode, satellite,
etc.--when I needed to swap a leaker. F150s, for example, have a
pretty elaborate process to even charge a battery:<br>
<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_KmO-KaR4A";>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_KmO-KaR4A</a><br>
<br>
After a lengthy, er, discussion I said 'F-it' and just swapped
batteries like I always have; I lost my custom drive mode but was
none the worse off for wear. But, I recommend you read your owners'
manual before doing anything on the electrical system of a car built
in the last 10 years or so.<br>
<br>
Bob<br>
<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 1/13/2024 1:54 AM, Moose wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:OFF255C646.F50E9F9A-ON85258AA3.0036348B-85258AA3.003669D0@mail.megageek.com">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<font size="2" face="sans-serif">One more note of stupidity on
this topic.
 Modern Range Rover requires their computer to change a battery!</font>
<br>
<br>
<font size="2" face="sans-serif">That's right, you need to tell
their
computer there is a new battery.</font>
<br>
<br>
<font size="2" face="sans-serif">I'm not sure if other makes are
going
this way, but it is one item on the long list of reasons I'll
never own
another RR!</font>
<br>
<br>
<font size="2" face="sans-serif">Moose</font>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<font size="1" face="sans-serif" color="#5f5f5f">From: Â Â Â
 </font><font size="1" face="sans-serif">Dwade Reinsch
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:dreinsch@swbell.net";><dreinsch@swbell.net></a></font>
<br>
<font size="1" face="sans-serif" color="#5f5f5f">To: Â Â Â
 </font><font size="1" face="sans-serif">David Scheidt
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:dmscheidt@gmail.com";><dmscheidt@gmail.com></a>,
old dirtbeard <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:dirtbeard@gmail.com";><dirtbeard@gmail.com></a></font>
<br>
<font size="1" face="sans-serif" color="#5f5f5f">Cc: Â Â Â
 </font><font size="1" face="sans-serif"><a
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:shop-talk@autox.team.net";>"shop-talk@autox.team.net"</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:shop-talk@autox.team.net";><shop-talk@autox.team.net></a></font>
<br>
<font size="1" face="sans-serif" color="#5f5f5f">Date: Â Â Â
 </font><font size="1" face="sans-serif">01/12/2024 23:12</font>
<br>
<font size="1" face="sans-serif" color="#5f5f5f">Subject: Â Â
  </font><font size="1" face="sans-serif">Re: [Shop-talk]
Stranded by a bad car battery.</font>
<br>
<font size="1" face="sans-serif" color="#5f5f5f">Sent by: Â Â
  </font><font size="1" face="sans-serif">"Shop-talk"
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net";><shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net></a></font>
<br>
<hr noshade="noshade">
<br>
<br>
<br>
<font size="2" face="Arial">Thanks to all who added to my
knowledge base
for modern cars and batteries.</font>
<br>
<br>
<font size="2" face="Arial">I replaced the old battery the next
morning,
started right up, and continues to run perfectly. Â I guess I'll
just
have to have battery tested after about three years of use.</font>
<br>
<br>
<font size="2" face="Arial">Thanks again!!</font>
<br>
<br>
<font size="2" face="Arial">Dwade</font>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<font size="2" face="Arial" color="#2f2f2f">On Wednesday, January
10, 2024
at 04:10:50 PM CST, old dirtbeard <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:dirtbeard@gmail.com";><dirtbeard@gmail.com></a>
wrote: </font>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<font size="2" face="Arial" color="#2f2f2f">Hi David, </font>
<br>
<br>
<font size="2" face="Arial" color="#2f2f2f">Yes, I do understand
about
the lead acid chargers. I have accumulated many over the last 50
years.
ð???</font>
<br>
<br>
<font size="2" face="Arial" color="#2f2f2f">Best,</font>
<br>
<br>
<font size="2" face="Arial" color="#2f2f2f">Doug</font>
<br>
<font size="2" face="Arial" color="#2f2f2f">mobile</font>
<br>
<hr>
<br>
<font size="2" face="Calibri"><b>From:</b> Shop-talk
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net";><shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net></a>
on behalf of David Scheidt <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:dmscheidt@gmail.com";><dmscheidt@gmail.com></a><b><br>
Sent:</b> Wednesday, January 10, 2024 9:17:13 AM<b><br>
To:</b> Dwade Reinsch <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:dreinsch@swbell.net";><dreinsch@swbell.net></a><b><br>
Cc:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:shop-talk@autox.team.net";>shop-talk@autox.team.net</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:shop-talk@autox.team.net";><shop-talk@autox.team.net></a><b><br>
Subject:</b> Re: [Shop-talk] Stranded by a bad car
battery.</font><font
size="2" face="Arial" color="#2f2f2f">
</font>
<br>
<font size="2" face="Arial" color="#2f2f2f">Â </font>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<font size="2" face="Arial" color="#2f2f2f">On Jan 10, 2024, at
00:48,
Dwade Reinsch <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:dreinsch@swbell.net";><dreinsch@swbell.net></a> wrote:<br>
</font>
<br>
<font size="2" face="Arial" color="#2f2f2f"> </font>
<br>
<font size="2" face="Arial" color="#2f2f2f">This afternoon I was
sitting
in the 2016 Honda Odyssey van waiting for granddaughter to
finish a theater
activity and I went to sleep in the front seat. Â Had the radio
and
inside lights on. Â When she finished and came out, car would not
start.
 Completely dead.  Electric seat would not come back to driving
position, etc.</font>
<br>
<br>
<font size="2" face="Arial" color="#2f2f2f">Here's the question:
 In
the old days a weak battery would give notice by cranking
slowly, etc.,
before failing. Â This is the car I drive regularly and it gave
NO
warning. Â Luckily, I could call son-in-law and he came to help.
 Would
not start with good set of booster cables. Â Would not start with
15
minutes of charging on cables before attempting to start. Â So in
the
morning I'll take pickup and tools and pull battery, get a
replacement,
and move the van home.</font>
<br>
<br>
<font size="2" face="Arial" color="#2f2f2f">Does anyone have a
suggestion
for identifying a failing battery before being stranded?
 (Battery
is about 4 years old.)</font>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<font size="2" face="Arial" color="#2f2f2f">If used properly, the
conductance
testers work well. Â Not cheap, but every auto parts store will
test
for you, assuming your battery is accessible. Â Many cars,
starting
just a bit later than your ofdesy, have state of charge and
battery performance
information tracked by the computer. Â (OnStar sent me email
telling
me the battery is low when I left my car on to listen to the
ballgame at
a campsite. I also get a monthly email, which told me to replace
the battery
for a couple months before I actually had it replaced.)</font>
<br>
<br>
<font size="2" face="Arial" color="#2f2f2f">Modern cars have much
higher
loads at start time, and lots of them require a reasonably good
voltage
to turn the computer on. Â Without that, the car wonâ??t do
anything
(the computer controls the starter solenoid on most cars). Â The
various
computers also control all the other parts, which is why the
seat couldnâ??t
move. </font>
<br>
<br>
<font size="2" face="Arial" color="#2f2f2f">This fall, I drove my
wifeâ??s
fusion to the garage to do the brakes. I turned off and on a
couple times
to get it spotted in the right spot. The third time I tried to
start it,
battery was dead. 20 seconds earlier, it fired on instantly,
with no slow
cranking. Â Since I was in the garage, I had a battery charger
handy.
10.2 volts or something like that. Putting the charger on lowest
setting
let it start. Â Plenty of joules in the battery, just not enough
voltage
to turn the ecm on. (I replaced the battery before pulling it
out of the
garage, it was 4 or 5 years old.)</font>
<br>
<tt><font size="2">_______________________________________________<br>
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