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Thought just came to mind. If this is for =E2=80=9Clight duty=E2=80=9D use, i=
s there anything wrong with (assuming you have decent cellular coverage and t=
he right phone) simply using your phone as a Wi-Fi hot spot? Data usage woul=
d be a challenge, depending on what you are paying for=E2=80=A6
Tom Coradeschi
Tjcora@icloud.com
> On Apr 12, 2022, at 10:48 PM, john niolon <jniolon@att.net> wrote:
>=20
> =EF=BB=BF
> peter... I want enough to search the net, watch a video on YouTube...jus=
t general access... no streaming or heavy downloads/uploads... I got dial up=
speeds now=20
> and some of these suggestions are way above my budget for garage access...=
I just thought powerline might be a reasonably cheap alternative to cat-5=
> =20
> =20
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Peter Murray <peterwmurray@gmail.com>
> To: john niolon <jniolon@att.net>, Shop-Talk List <shop-talk@autox.team.ne=
t>
> Sent: 4/11/2022 9:40:56 PM
> Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] shop internet
> John-
>=20
> How much bandwidth do you want in your shop?
>=20
> I have used network-over-powerline adapters for quite a while now, and hav=
e had good success with them. I have an outbuilding/home office about 200' f=
rom my house, and those adapters provided a very serviceable connection betw=
een the outbuilding and the house (about 25Mbit). As others have pointed out=
, you'll have best luck with them with them both operating on the same hot l=
eg of your 240V split-phase power. It can be hit or miss, but a pair of "200=
0Mbit" units isn't terribly expensive. I wouldn't be surprised in the least i=
f you find they work just fine for you. I would connect one of them to an av=
ailable LAN ethernet ports (likely on your router) and the other (in the sho=
p) in a convenient outlet. You can get versions that have built in PoE (for a=
n access point, perhaps), or you can adapt another router/AP to simply provi=
de wifi in the shop. There are also network-over-power/AP combo units as wel=
l. Don't forget that the network-over-powerline units don't operate in pairs=
- you can place several wherever you need them, and they'll act like additi=
onal ethernet ports. I like the TP-Link gear, and units with a pass-through p=
ower port and a couple of ports are wicked handy.
>=20
> In my situation, I do have clear line of sight and have "upgraded" from th=
e network-over-power units to a Ubiquiti mesh link, which yields about 150-2=
00Mbit of actual throughput. If you are truly only 300' from one building to=
the other, I think you'll not have any trouble linking the two locations us=
ing 5GHz wireless. The trees will attenuate, but you can focus the power ava=
ilable to increase your link budget and "burn through" the vegetation. I'd l=
ook at a pair of Ubiquiti LiteBeam Gen2 units (pretty cheap on Amazon) - the=
y'll get you somewhere around 250-300Mbit of throughput with 80MHz channel u=
sage. Narrower channel usage will yield better reliability if that balance n=
eeds to be struck. They have about a 12 degree beamwidth, so they're pretty f=
orgiving with your aim, but the available power is focused where you want it=
.
>=20
> When I installed 60A/240V service in my tiny outbuilding, I had the servic=
e run in plastic conduit - but - for reasons that escape me right now - didn=
't run any fiber. I regret that, and intend to order a pre-made 6-strand OS3=
fiber cable and pull it through this summer. I'll light it up at 1Gbit (for=
the moment). With LC connectors on each end of the fiber, the ethernet swit=
ches and mini-GBIC units needed to turn it into conventional copper ethernet=
are cheap, and I don't worry about my ham radio RF or lightning strikes act=
ing on a big copper ethernet line like an antenna. LANShack is who I'm looki=
ng at for the fiber, by the way.
>=20
> If you're not averse to running a copper cable, 330' is your ethernet maxi=
mum (100m). If you go that route, I'd go with Cat6, and I'd put it in flexib=
le conduit, guessing that you don't already have conduit in place. You don't=
really even need to worry about putting it below the frost line - goodness k=
nows that Cox (our local coax cable company) and Verizon FiOS don't. That sa=
id, I would suggest calling your local utility marking outfit before you dig=
.
>=20
> Happy to talk further!
>=20
> -Peter (independent IT guy, radio amateur)
>=20
>> On Mon, Apr 11, 2022 at 6:02 PM john niolon <jniolon@att.net> wrote:
>> I'm trying to get some 'reliable' internet service to my unattached shop b=
uilding... just a shade too far for cable access (just under 300 feet of ca=
ble) and too many obstacles for wireless
>> \even with an extender... looking at powerline units... two boxes...mode=
m plugs into one and it plugs into 120 v plug...other box plugs into any oth=
er plug on same
>> breaker box and the laptop plugs into it with cat-5-cable.. =20
>> =20
>> anyone have any experienced with this type service ??
>> =20
>> example:
>> =20
>> https://www.ebay.com/itm/275159414599?_trkparms=3Damclksrc%3DITM%26aid%3D=
1110018%26algo%3DHOMESPLICE.COMPLISTINGS%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D238115%26meid%3D9d=
4234b8cade433b81c8265e84d81de8%26pid%3D101196%26rk%3D10%26rkt%3D12%26sd%3D26=
5638365047%26itm%3D275159414599%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3D0%26pg%3D2047675%26algv%3D=
ItemStripV101HighAdFeeWithCompV3Ranker%26brand%3DNETGEAR&_trksid=3Dp2047675.=
c101196.m2219&amdata=3Dcksum%3A2751594145999d4234b8cade433b81c8265e84d81de8%=
7Cenc%3AAQAGAAABAMwaiCkD4Jz%252FAA1ytZhxVAzuCsqdmLW9ojO6k7lKEs76vKeVo8baO64d=
uoLIjpcgMP90FFiVgMKbdjh7IgvEI%252BQJgW4gEnxkDA5yYEh7wlEj%252FSuKUyH0RJbKQh7d=
zMgt%252BJRsfe1bI7Jq%252BzI1fyQLcD4HuL%252FMQUHFh10KutrC3t3VJZoR0sVMt6IDKUo7=
JSyE07Tq52Ka8iPzC9czJ30Nj43ezZTHfxDa3MVT0chETDN2ahqtYKn1MU6wPLlb5sYl6h8pA6VP=
72FCgmJMYEVr0A8gmzhmomEh75XqFQfAefFiX4hPo%252BiZmySE8%252Bh4nUWX3cDN7k4ixdEc=
XiYyvMaWhsA%253D%7Campid%3APL_CLK%7Cclp%3A2047675&epid=3D1186426581
>> =20
>> thanks
>> john
>> _______________________________________________
>>=20
>> Shop-talk@autox.team.net
>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>> Suggested annual donation $12.96
>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/ar=
chive
>>=20
>> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/peter=
wmurray@gmail.com
>>=20
> _______________________________________________
>=20
> Shop-talk@autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/arc=
hive
>=20
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/tjcora=
@icloud.com
>=20
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charset=utf-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3D=
utf-8"></head><body dir=3D"auto">Thought just came to mind. If this is for =E2=
=80=9Clight duty=E2=80=9D use, is there anything wrong with (assuming you ha=
ve decent cellular coverage and the right phone) simply using your phone as a=
Wi-Fi hot spot? Data usage would be a challenge, depending on what you are p=
aying for=E2=80=A6<br><br><div dir=3D"ltr">Tom Coradeschi<div>Tjcora@icloud.=
com</div></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br><blockquote type=3D"cite">On Apr 12, 202=
2, at 10:48 PM, john niolon <jniolon@att.net> wrote:<br><br></blockquo=
te></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr">=EF=BB=BF
<meta name=3D"GENERATOR" content=3D"MSHTML 11.00.10570.1001">
<div><font face=3D"Segoe UI">peter...<em> </em> I want enough to s=
earch the net, watch a video on YouTube...just general access... no streamin=
g or heavy downloads/uploads... I got dial up speeds now </font></div>=
<div><font face=3D"Segoe UI">and some of these suggestions are way above my b=
udget for garage access... I just thought powerline might be a r=
easonably cheap alternative to cat-5</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div> </div>
<blockquote style=3D"PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; PADDING-TOP: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0.=
5em; BORDER-LEFT: #c7e5ff 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.5em; PADDING-RIGH=
T: 0px">
<div style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Segoe UI'; COLOR: #000000"><b>-=
---- Original Message -----</b></div>
<div style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Segoe UI'; COLOR:
#000000"><b>From:=
</b> Peter Murray <<a href=3D"mailto:peterwmurray@gmail.com";>peterwmurray=
@gmail.com</a>></div>
<div style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Segoe UI'; COLOR: #000000"><b>T=
o:</b> john niolon <<a href=3D"mailto:jniolon@att.net";>jniolon@att.net</a=
>>, Shop-Talk List <<a href=3D"mailto:shop-talk@autox.team.net";>shop-t=
alk@autox.team.net</a>></div>
<div style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Segoe UI'; COLOR: #000000"><b>S=
ent:</b> 4/11/2022 9:40:56 PM</div>
<div style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Segoe UI'; COLOR: #000000"><b>S=
ubject:</b> Re: [Shop-talk] shop internet</div>
<hr style=3D"BORDER-TOP: medium none; HEIGHT: 1px; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none=
; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; COLOR: #ccc; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; BACKGRO=
UND-COLOR: #ccc">
<div dir=3D"ltr">John-
<div><br></div>
<div>How much bandwidth do you want in your shop?</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>I have used network-over-powerline adapters for quite a while now, and h=
ave had good success with them. I have an outbuilding/home office about 200'=
from my house, and those adapters provided a very serviceable connection be=
tween the outbuilding and the house (about 25Mbit). As others have pointed o=
ut, you'll have best luck with them with them both operating on the same hot=
leg of your 240V split-phase power. It can be hit or miss, but a pair of "2=
000Mbit" units isn't terribly expensive. I wouldn't be surprised in the leas=
t if you find they work just fine for you. I would connect one of them to an=
available LAN ethernet ports (likely on your router) and the other (in the s=
hop) in a convenient outlet. You can get versions that have built in PoE (fo=
r an access point, perhaps), or you can adapt another router/AP to simply pr=
ovide wifi in the shop. There are also network-over-power/AP combo units as w=
ell. Don't forget that the network-over-powerline units don't operate in pai=
rs - you can place several wherever you need them, and they'll act like=
additional ethernet ports. I like the TP-Link gear, and units with a pass-t=
hrough power port and a couple of ports are wicked handy.</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>
<div>In my situation, I do have clear line of sight and have "upgraded" from=
the network-over-power units to a Ubiquiti mesh link, which yields about 15=
0-200Mbit of actual throughput. If you are truly only 300' from one building=
to the other, I think you'll not have any trouble linking the two locations=
using 5GHz wireless. The trees will attenuate, but you can focus the power a=
vailable to increase your link budget and "burn through" the vegetation. I'd=
look at a pair of Ubiquiti LiteBeam Gen2 units (pretty cheap on <a href=3D"=
https://www.amazon.com/Ubiquiti-LBE-5AC-GEN2-US-LiteBeam-Wireless-Bridge/dp/=
B06Y2JH7PV?th=3D1">Amazon</a>) - they'll get you somewhere around 250-300Mbi=
t of throughput with 80MHz channel usage. Narrower channel usage will yield b=
etter reliability if that balance needs to be struck. They have about a 12 d=
egree beamwidth, so they're pretty forgiving with your aim, but the availabl=
e power is focused where you want it.</div></div>
<div><br></div>
<div>When I installed 60A/240V service in my tiny outbuilding, I had the&nbs=
p;service run in plastic conduit - but - for reasons that escape me right no=
w - didn't run any fiber. I regret that, and intend to order a pre-made 6-st=
rand OS3 fiber cable and pull it through this summer. I'll light it up at 1G=
bit (for the moment). With LC connectors on each end of the fiber, the ether=
net switches and mini-GBIC units needed to turn it into conventional copper e=
thernet are cheap, and I don't worry about my ham radio RF or lightning stri=
kes acting on a big copper ethernet line like an antenna. LANShack is who I'=
m looking at for the fiber, by the way.</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>If you're not averse to running a copper cable, 330' is your ethernet m=
aximum (100m). If you go that route, I'd go with Cat6, and I'd put it in fle=
xible conduit, guessing that you don't already have conduit in place. Y=
ou don't really even need to worry about putting it below the frost line - g=
oodness knows that Cox (our local coax cable company) and Verizon FiOS don't=
. That said, I would suggest calling your local utility marking outfit befor=
e you dig.</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>Happy to talk further!<br></div>
<div><br></div>
<div>-Peter (independent IT guy, radio amateur)</div></div><br>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">
<div class=3D"gmail_attr" dir=3D"ltr">On Mon, Apr 11, 2022 at 6:02 PM john n=
iolon <<a href=3D"mailto:jniolon@att.net";>jniolon@att.net</a>> wrote:<=
br></div>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; BORDER-LEFT: r=
gb(204,204,204) 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex">
<div>
<div><font face=3D"Segoe UI">I'm trying to get some 'reliable' internet serv=
ice to my unattached shop building... just a shade too far for cable access&=
nbsp; (just under 300 feet of cable) and too many obstacles for wireles=
s</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Segoe UI">\even with an extender... looking at powerline u=
nits... two boxes...modem plugs into one and it plugs into 120 v plug.=
..other box plugs into any other plug on same</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Segoe UI">breaker box and the laptop plugs into it with c=
at-5-cable.. </font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Segoe UI"></font> </div>
<div><font face=3D"Segoe UI">anyone have any experienced with this type serv=
ice ??</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Segoe UI"></font> </div>
<div><font face=3D"Segoe UI">example:</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Segoe UI"></font> </div>
<div><font face=3D"Segoe UI"><a href=3D"https://www.ebay.com/itm/27515941459=
9?_trkparms=3Damclksrc%3DITM%26aid%3D1110018%26algo%3DHOMESPLICE.COMPLISTING=
S%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D238115%26meid%3D9d4234b8cade433b81c8265e84d81de8%26pid%3D=
101196%26rk%3D10%26rkt%3D12%26sd%3D265638365047%26itm%3D275159414599%26pmt%3=
D1%26noa%3D0%26pg%3D2047675%26algv%3DItemStripV101HighAdFeeWithCompV3Ranker%=
26brand%3DNETGEAR&_trksid=3Dp2047675.c101196.m2219&amdata=3Dcksum%3A=
2751594145999d4234b8cade433b81c8265e84d81de8%7Cenc%3AAQAGAAABAMwaiCkD4Jz%252=
FAA1ytZhxVAzuCsqdmLW9ojO6k7lKEs76vKeVo8baO64duoLIjpcgMP90FFiVgMKbdjh7IgvEI%2=
52BQJgW4gEnxkDA5yYEh7wlEj%252FSuKUyH0RJbKQh7dzMgt%252BJRsfe1bI7Jq%252BzI1fyQ=
LcD4HuL%252FMQUHFh10KutrC3t3VJZoR0sVMt6IDKUo7JSyE07Tq52Ka8iPzC9czJ30Nj43ezZT=
HfxDa3MVT0chETDN2ahqtYKn1MU6wPLlb5sYl6h8pA6VP72FCgmJMYEVr0A8gmzhmomEh75XqFQf=
AefFiX4hPo%252BiZmySE8%252Bh4nUWX3cDN7k4ixdEcXiYyvMaWhsA%253D%7Campid%3APL_C=
LK%7Cclp%3A2047675&epid=3D1186426581" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ebay=
.com/itm/275159414599?_trkparms=3Damclksrc%3DITM%26aid%3D1110018%26algo%3DHO=
MESPLICE.COMPLISTINGS%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D238115%26meid%3D9d4234b8cade433b81c82=
65e84d81de8%26pid%3D101196%26rk%3D10%26rkt%3D12%26sd%3D265638365047%26itm%3D=
275159414599%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3D0%26pg%3D2047675%26algv%3DItemStripV101HighAd=
FeeWithCompV3Ranker%26brand%3DNETGEAR&_trksid=3Dp2047675.c101196.m2219&a=
mp;amdata=3Dcksum%3A2751594145999d4234b8cade433b81c8265e84d81de8%7Cenc%3AAQA=
GAAABAMwaiCkD4Jz%252FAA1ytZhxVAzuCsqdmLW9ojO6k7lKEs76vKeVo8baO64duoLIjpcgMP9=
0FFiVgMKbdjh7IgvEI%252BQJgW4gEnxkDA5yYEh7wlEj%252FSuKUyH0RJbKQh7dzMgt%252BJR=
sfe1bI7Jq%252BzI1fyQLcD4HuL%252FMQUHFh10KutrC3t3VJZoR0sVMt6IDKUo7JSyE07Tq52K=
a8iPzC9czJ30Nj43ezZTHfxDa3MVT0chETDN2ahqtYKn1MU6wPLlb5sYl6h8pA6VP72FCgmJMYEV=
r0A8gmzhmomEh75XqFQfAefFiX4hPo%252BiZmySE8%252Bh4nUWX3cDN7k4ixdEcXiYyvMaWhsA=
%253D%7Campid%3APL_CLK%7Cclp%3A2047675&epid=3D1186426581</a></font></div=
>
<div><font face=3D"Segoe UI"></font> </div>
<div><font face=3D"Segoe UI">thanks</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Segoe UI">john</font></div></div>________________________=
_______________________<br><br><a href=3D"mailto:Shop-talk@autox.team.net"; t=
arget=3D"_blank">Shop-talk@autox.team.net</a><br>Donate: <a href=3D"http://w=
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il.com</a><br><br></blockquote></div></blockquote>
<span>_______________________________________________</span><br><span></span=
><br><span>Shop-talk@autox.team.net</span><br><span>Donate: http://www.team.=
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Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive
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