Re: [Mgs] Slow cranking, was Siphoning Gas

[Barrie Robinson <barrob@bell.net>]

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Hello folks,

I have had a few MGs including my first car ever - a brand new MG TD.   
I find that Lucas bits are used on may cars inducing on my current 'in 
progress' chariot.    I am not sure 'new' things these days are as  good 
as 'old' ones  When I took in our clothes washer in to be fixed I asked 
the shop if I should buy a new one from them or recondition the old 
one.  The bloke took me into the back repair area and said 'Look'.  It 
was filed with new machines and no old ones.  He said my 30 year old 
reconditioned washer would last another 30 years but a new one would 
expire pretty soon after its 2 year warranty.  Remembering that our  
'top of the line' German dish washer has had two service calls in its 
two years I went with reconditioning.   A local bod, who does nothing 
else but starters, alternators, generators, dissembled my sick starter 
and generator in front of me and pointed out the parts that needed 
replacement. On picking the units up a few days latter I was faced with 
a total bill of C$150.    So I will always go with bods that do 
'refurbishing' provided they are a well established shop.   Using 'on 
line' outfits is a lottery call but there some good guys out there.

Now back to the program !

Cheers
Barrie

On 11/15/2020 8:47 AM, h.duinhoven@planet.nl wrote:
>
> I measured the voltage on the posts while cranking = 10,5 volts. It is 
> on a digital meter, so I wonder if thatâ??s a good value.
>
> The same value is measured on the starter ingoing post.
>
> So no tension loss on the electrical circuits.
>
>
> Now there is a discussion:
>
> Repair the starter or buy a new one.
>
> High torque starter = â?¬ 325,00, which is pricy
>
> Original starter on exchange base = â?¬ 200,00
>
> New starter Powerlite = â?¬ 239,00
>
> New starter looking like a Lucas (white labelled) = â?¬ 135,00
>
> https://www.octagonparts.nl/product-categorie/mgb/electrical-mgb/starting-system-mgb-electrical-mgb/
>  
> <https://www.octagonparts.nl/product-categorie/mgb/electrical-mgb/starting-system-mgb-electrical-mgb/>
>  
>
>
> https://www.angloparts.com/en/catalogues/part/26883/082.024 
> <https://www.angloparts.com/en/catalogues/part/26883/082.024>
>
> There is a local electrical car parts repair shop, where the 
> alternator has been repaired +/- 10 years ago.
>
> They did a good job.
>
> I assume they can fix the starter as well, but what is better â?? a new 
> one (Angloparts = â?¬ 152 or â?¬ 135,00 at octagonparts) or have the 
> original repairedâ?¦
>
> Cheers,
>
> Hans
>
> *Van:* PaulHunt73 <paulhunt73@virginmedia.com>
> *Verzonden:* dinsdag 10 november 2020 11:41
> *Aan:* h.duinhoven@planet.nl
> *CC:* 'mglist' <mgs@autox.team.net>; 'MGB-Yahoo' <mg-mgb@yahoogroups.com>
> *Onderwerp:* Re: [Mgs] Slow cranking, was Siphoning Gas
>
> Yes, measure the voltage right on the battery posts (adding the two 
> voltages together if twin 6v batteries) when cranking, then compare 
> that with the voltage at the battery cable stud on the solenoid and 
> starter body when cranking. The difference between the two is what is 
> being lost in the connections, a volt or so is normal but it shouldn't 
> be much more than that.
>
> If you get much less than 10v at the battery posts then that is the 
> problem.
>
> PaulH.
>
>     ----- Original Message -----
>
>     Next job is the slow starter motor.
>
>     I already cleaned the battery posts clamps and the post of the
>     battery to chassis cable.
>
>     Also cleaned thoroughly the chassis to engine cable.
>
>     Nothing helped so far.
>
>     So next will be verifying the battery voltage when cranking. I
>     assume it will be o.k. as the battery is new.
>
>     Following step will be measuring the voltage over the starter
>     motor +12V to the engine.
>
>     When o.k., the starter is suspect. As it never was overhauled,
>     this is logical.
>
>     Nice winter job.
>
>     *Van:* Mgs <mgs-bounces@autox.team.net
>     *Verzonden:* donderdag 22 oktober 2020 22:26
>     *Aan:* Richard Lindsay <richardolindsay@gmail.com
>     *Onderwerp:* Re: [Mgs] Siphoning Gas
>
>     OMG, duh! Thanks to all that replied with this excellent (and
>     obvious, now!) advice..............................
>
>     Dan D
>
>     http://dandibiase.cbintouch.com/ <http://dandibiase.cbintouch.com/>
>
>     On Thu, Oct 22, 2020 at 4:13 PM Richard Lindsay
>
>         I had the same problem. I disconnected the fuel hose, added a
>         a long bit of hose and with the coil disconnected, used the
>         fuel pump to pump old fuel into jugs.
>
>         On Thu, Oct 22, 2020, 3:02 PM Dan DiBiase
>
>             Hi all.... My '76B, which was off the road for 5 years,
>             was recently returned to me from the shop. They added some
>             new gas but did not siphon out the 5 year old gas (which
>             was just under 1/2 tank when I had it towed in. The car is
>             running pretty rough so I want to siphon out most of the
>             gas before I fill it up. It is currently showing as just
>             under 1/2 tank, so around 6 gallons or a little less
>             (assuming gauge accuracy).
>
>             I was able to pump out about 2 gallons but am wondering if
>             the interior of the tank is baffled, as I can't seem to
>             move the hose beyond a certain area and it's not sucking
>             up any additional gas. Would really like to remove a
>             couple more gallons before I fill it up.
>
>             Thx,
>
>             Dan D
>
>             '76B-Â  Getting There
>
>             '65B - Waiting It's Turn
>
>             Central NJ USA
>
>             http://dandibiase.cbintouch.com/
>             <http://dandibiase.cbintouch.com/>
>
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> _______________________________________________
>
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    <font size="-1"><font face="Arial">Hello folks,<br>
        <br>
        I have had a few MGs including my first car ever - a brand new
        MG TD.   I find that Lucas bits are used on may cars inducing on
        my current 'in progress' chariot.    I am not sure 'new' things
        these days are as  good as 'old' ones  When I took in our
        clothes washer in to be fixed I asked the shop if I should buy a
        new one from them or recondition the old one.  The bloke took me
        into the back repair area and said 'Look'.  It was filed with
        new machines and no old ones.  He said my 30 year old
        reconditioned washer would last another 30 years but a new one
        would expire pretty soon after its 2 year warranty.  Remembering
        that our  'top of the line' German dish washer has had two
        service calls in its two years I went with reconditioning.   A
        local bod, who does nothing else but starters, alternators,
        generators, dissembled my sick starter and generator in front of
        me and pointed out the parts that needed replacement. On picking
        the units up a few days latter I was faced with a total bill of
        C$150.    So I will always go with bods that do 'refurbishing'
        provided they are a well established shop.   Using 'on line'
        outfits is a lottery call but there some good guys out there.<br>
        <br>
        Now back to the program !<br>
        <br>
        Cheers<br>
        Barrie<br>
      </font></font><br>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 11/15/2020 8:47 AM,
      <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" 
href="mailto:h.duinhoven@planet.nl";>h.duinhoven@planet.nl</a> wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
      cite="mid:002901d6bb55$d1a1e270$74e5a750$@planet.nl">
      <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
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      <div class="WordSection1">
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span 
style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p>Â </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
            lang="EN-GB">I measured the voltage on the posts while
            cranking = 10,5 volts. It is on a digital meter, so I wonder
            if thatâ??s a good value.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
            lang="EN-GB">The same value is measured on the starter
            ingoing post.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
            lang="EN-GB">So no tension loss on the electrical 
circuits.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
            lang="EN-GB"><br>
            Now there is a discussion:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
            lang="EN-GB">Repair the starter or buy a new 
one.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
            lang="EN-GB">High torque starter = â?¬ 325,00, which is 
pricy<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
            lang="EN-GB">Original starter on exchange base = â?¬ 
200,00<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
            lang="EN-GB">New starter Powerlite = â?¬ 
239,00<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
            lang="EN-GB">New starter looking like a Lucas (white
            labelled) = â?¬ 135,00<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
            lang="EN-GB"><o:p>Â </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
            lang="EN-GB"><a
href="https://www.octagonparts.nl/product-categorie/mgb/electrical-mgb/starting-system-mgb-electrical-mgb/";
              
moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.octagonparts.nl/product-categorie/mgb/electrical-mgb/starting-system-mgb-electrical-mgb/</a>
            <o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
            lang="EN-GB"><o:p>Â </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
            lang="EN-GB"><a
              href="https://www.angloparts.com/en/catalogues/part/26883/082.024";
              
moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.angloparts.com/en/catalogues/part/26883/082.024</a>
            <o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
            lang="EN-GB"><o:p>Â </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
            lang="EN-GB">There is a local electrical car parts repair
            shop, where the alternator has been repaired +/- 10 years
            ago.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
            lang="EN-GB">They did a good job.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
            lang="EN-GB">I assume they can fix the starter as well, but
            what is better â?? a new one (Angloparts = â?¬ 152 or â?¬ 135,00
            at octagonparts) or have the original 
repairedâ?¦<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
            lang="EN-GB"><o:p>Â </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
            lang="EN-GB">Cheers,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
            lang="EN-GB">Hans <o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
            lang="EN-GB"><o:p>Â </o:p></span></p>
        <div>
          <div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
            1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
            <p class="MsoNormal"><b>Van:</b> PaulHunt73
              <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" 
href="mailto:paulhunt73@virginmedia.com";>&lt;paulhunt73@virginmedia.com&gt;</a> 
<br>
              <b>Verzonden:</b> dinsdag 10 november 2020 11:41<br>
              <b>Aan:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" 
href="mailto:h.duinhoven@planet.nl";>h.duinhoven@planet.nl</a><br>
              <b>CC:</b> 'mglist' <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" 
href="mailto:mgs@autox.team.net";>&lt;mgs@autox.team.net&gt;</a>;
              'MGB-Yahoo' <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" 
href="mailto:mg-mgb@yahoogroups.com";>&lt;mg-mgb@yahoogroups.com&gt;</a><br>
              <b>Onderwerp:</b> Re: [Mgs] Slow cranking, was Siphoning
              Gas<o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
        </div>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p>Â </o:p></p>
        <div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">Yes, measure
                the voltage right on the battery posts (adding the two
                voltages together if twin 6v batteries) when cranking,
                then compare that with the voltage at the battery cable
                stud on the solenoid and starter body when cranking. 
                The difference between the two is what is being lost in
                the connections, a volt or so is normal but it shouldn't
                be much more than that.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal">Â <o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">If you
                get much less than 10v at the battery posts then that is
                the problem.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal">Â <o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span 
style="font-size:10.0pt">PaulH.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal">Â <o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
        </div>
        <blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid black
          1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm
4.0pt;margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif">-----
                Original Message ----- <o:p></o:p></span></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="background:#E4E4E4"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
                lang="EN-GB"><o:p>Â </o:p></span></p>
          </div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
              lang="EN-GB">Next job is the slow starter motor. 
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
              lang="EN-GB">I already cleaned the battery posts clamps
              and the post of the battery to chassis 
cable.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
              lang="EN-GB">Also cleaned thoroughly the chassis to engine
              cable. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
              lang="EN-GB">Nothing helped so far.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
              lang="EN-GB">So next will be verifying the battery voltage
              when cranking. I assume it will be o.k. as the battery is
              new.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
              lang="EN-GB">Following step will be measuring the voltage
              over the starter motor +12V to the engine.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
              lang="EN-GB">When o.k., the starter is suspect. As it
              never was overhauled, this is logical.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
              lang="EN-GB">Nice winter job.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
              lang="EN-GB"><o:p>Â </o:p></span></p>
          <div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
            1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
            <p class="MsoNormal"><b>Van:</b> Mgs &lt;<a
                href="mailto:mgs-bounces@autox.team.net";
                moz-do-not-send="true">mgs-bounces@autox.team.net</a>&gt;
              <b>Namens </b>Dan DiBiase<br>
              <b>Verzonden:</b> donderdag 22 oktober 2020 22:26<br>
              <b>Aan:</b> Richard Lindsay &lt;<a
                href="mailto:richardolindsay@gmail.com";
                moz-do-not-send="true">richardolindsay@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br>
              <b>CC:</b> mglist &lt;<a href="mailto:mgs@autox.team.net";
                moz-do-not-send="true">mgs@autox.team.net</a>&gt;;
              MGB-Yahoo &lt;<a href="mailto:mg-mgb@yahoogroups.com";
                moz-do-not-send="true">mg-mgb@yahoogroups.com</a>&gt;<br>
              <b>Onderwerp:</b> Re: [Mgs] Siphoning Gas<o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p>Â </o:p></p>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal">OMG, duh! Thanks to all that replied
              with this excellent (and obvious, now!)
              advice..............................<o:p></o:p></p>
            <div>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p>Â </o:p></p>
            </div>
            <div>
              <p class="MsoNormal">Dan D<br clear="all">
                <o:p></o:p></p>
              <div>
                <div>
                  <div>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><a
                        href="http://dandibiase.cbintouch.com/";
                        target="_blank" 
moz-do-not-send="true">http://dandibiase.cbintouch.com/</a><o:p></o:p></p>
                  </div>
                </div>
              </div>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p>Â </o:p></p>
            </div>
          </div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p>Â </o:p></p>
          <div>
            <div>
              <p class="MsoNormal">On Thu, Oct 22, 2020 at 4:13 PM
                Richard Lindsay &lt;<a
                  href="mailto:richardolindsay@gmail.com";
                  moz-do-not-send="true">richardolindsay@gmail.com</a>&gt;
                wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
            </div>
            <blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC
              1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
              <div>
                <p class="MsoNormal">I had the same problem. I
                  disconnected the fuel hose, added a a long bit of hose
                  and with the coil disconnected, used the fuel pump to
                  pump old fuel into jugs.<o:p></o:p></p>
              </div>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p>Â </o:p></p>
              <div>
                <div>
                  <p class="MsoNormal">On Thu, Oct 22, 2020, 3:02 PM Dan
                    DiBiase &lt;<a href="mailto:dan.dibiase@gmail.com";
                      target="_blank" 
moz-do-not-send="true">dan.dibiase@gmail.com</a>&gt;
                    wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
                </div>
                <blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC
                  1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
                  <div>
                    <p class="MsoNormal">Hi all.... My '76B, which was
                      off the road for 5 years, was recently returned to
                      me from the shop. They added some new gas but did
                      not siphon out the 5 year old gas (which was just
                      under 1/2 tank when I had it towed in. The car is
                      running pretty rough so I want to siphon out most
                      of the gas before I fill it up. It is currently
                      showing as just under 1/2 tank, so around 6
                      gallons or a little less (assuming gauge
                      accuracy). <o:p></o:p></p>
                    <div>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p>Â </o:p></p>
                    </div>
                    <div>
                      <p class="MsoNormal">I was able to pump out about
                        2 gallons but am wondering if the interior of
                        the tank is baffled, as I can't seem to move the
                        hose beyond a certain area and it's not sucking
                        up any additional gas. Would really like to
                        remove a couple more gallons before I fill it
                        up.<o:p></o:p></p>
                    </div>
                    <div>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p>Â </o:p></p>
                    </div>
                    <div>
                      <p class="MsoNormal">Thx, <o:p></o:p></p>
                    </div>
                    <div>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p>Â </o:p></p>
                    </div>
                    <div>
                      <p class="MsoNormal">Dan D<o:p></o:p></p>
                    </div>
                    <div>
                      <p class="MsoNormal">'76B-Â  Getting There<o:p></o:p></p>
                    </div>
                    <div>
                      <p class="MsoNormal">'65B - Waiting It's 
Turn<o:p></o:p></p>
                    </div>
                    <div>
                      <p class="MsoNormal">Central NJ USA<br clear="all">
                        <o:p></o:p></p>
                      <div>
                        <div>
                          <div>
                            <p class="MsoNormal"><a
                                href="http://dandibiase.cbintouch.com/";
                                target="_blank" 
moz-do-not-send="true">http://dandibiase.cbintouch.com/</a><o:p></o:p></p>
                          </div>
                        </div>
                      </div>
                    </div>
                  </div>
                  <p 
class="MsoNormal">_______________________________________________<br>
                    <br>
                    <a href="mailto:Mgs@autox.team.net"; target="_blank"
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                </blockquote>
              </div>
            </blockquote>
          </div>
          <div id="DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2">
            <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p>Â </o:p></p>
            <table class="MsoNormalTable"
              style="border:none;border-top:solid #D3D4DE 1.0pt"
              cellspacing="3" cellpadding="0" border="1">
              <tbody>
                <tr>
                  <td style="width:41.25pt;border:none;padding:13.5pt
                    .75pt .75pt .75pt" width="55">
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><a
href="https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&amp;utm_source=link&amp;utm_campaign=sig-email&amp;utm_content=emailclient";
                        target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><span
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                            style="width:.4833in;height:.3in"
                            id="_x0000_i1026"
src="https://ipmcdn.avast.com/images/icons/icon-envelope-tick-round-orange-animated-no-repeat-v1.gif";
                            moz-do-not-send="true" width="46"
                            height="29" border="0"></span></a><o:p></o:p></p>
                  </td>
                  <td style="width:352.5pt;border:none;padding:12.75pt
                    .75pt .75pt .75pt" width="470">
                    <p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:13.5pt"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif;color:#41424E">Virusvrij.
                        <a
href="https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&amp;utm_source=link&amp;utm_campaign=sig-email&amp;utm_content=emailclient";
                          target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><span
                            style="color:#4453EA">www.avast.com</span></a>
                        <o:p></o:p></span></p>
                  </td>
                </tr>
              </tbody>
            </table>
          </div>
          <div class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:center"
            align="center">
            <hr width="100%" size="2" align="center"></div>
          <p 
class="MsoNormal">_______________________________________________<br>
            <br>
            <a href="mailto:Mgs@autox.team.net"; 
moz-do-not-send="true">Mgs@autox.team.net</a><br>
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              moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>
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      <br>
      <fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
      <pre class="moz-quote-pre" 
wrap="">_______________________________________________

<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" 
href="mailto:Mgs@autox.team.net";>Mgs@autox.team.net</a>

Archive: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" 
href="http://www.team.net/pipermail/mgs";>http://www.team.net/pipermail/mgs</a> 
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</pre>
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