Now ya talking. Neon, relatively cheap, highly dramatic. Very HFPD. Seems
to work too, based on the increase in unwed mothers around here.
K.
Now to get back to LBC discussion.
We are trying to determine the correct diameter for MGB caliper pistons. It
turns out in the samples I came up with there is a 2 thou difference between
calipers on the same car. Nice to know we are driving with critically
manufactured parts. I had a pair of calipers from a 1965. One original
caliper from a 79 and a replacement NOS caliper installed in 1995. Biggest
difference was in the pistons from the 65. Evidently not a problem, as the
calipers still had the original seals in them.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tab Julius [mailto:tab@penworks.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2000 11:59 AM
> To: Dodd, Kelvin
> Cc: 'mgs@autox.team.net'
> Subject: RE: In search of Better Brakes...
>
>
>
> How about the neon lights that I could attach to the
> undercarriage and
> around the license plate?
>
> At 11:40 AM 4/25/00 -0700, Dodd, Kelvin wrote:
> >Sorry Tab. OD transmissions do not class as HFPD items.
> They are expensive
> >and do not add measurably to the esteem of the vehicle to
> the uneducated and
> >morally lax. They can be used to impress however, when the
> uninitiated
> >passenger is blithely informed that the push in the back as
> the OD engages
> >is due to the supercharger that you just switched on.
> Comparisons of James
> >Bond may then be made, and the initiation of formal mating
> rites may begin.
> >
> >Keep in mind. Expensive options such as superchargers and
> overdrives are
> >not HFPD items.
> >
> >Supercharger or V8 badges on normally aspirated stock,
> vehicles are HFPD
> >items.
> >
> >
> >Kelvin.
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Tab Julius [mailto:tab@penworks.com]
> > > Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2000 11:25 AM
> > > To: Dodd, Kelvin
> > > Cc: 'mgs@autox.team.net'
> > > Subject: RE: In search of Better Brakes...
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Kelvin,
> > >
> > > A thoughtful and well-reasoned answer.
> > >
> > > It does seem that I should just make sure the regular ones
> > > are in tune and
> > > buy a top set of tires. Then I can save my money for other
> > > higher HFPD
> > > items (like an OD transmission? :)
> > >
> > > Thank you (and all others who responded).
> > >
> > > - Tab
> > >
> > > At 10:56 AM 4/25/00 -0700, Dodd, Kelvin wrote:
> > > >Tab:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > The majority of brake modifications offered are to
> > > prevent brake
> > > >fade after multiple hard uses. This normally does not
> > > happen in regular
> > > >street driving unless one lives in canyon country and makes
> > > suicide runs up
> > > >and down the roads.
> > > >
> > > > There has been a wonderful discussion of vented
> > > brakes on the E-Type
> > > >list with the supplier of vented rotor kits stating that
> > > most owners have
> > > >absolutely no need for his product.
> > > >
> > > > It's all a question of mass and momentum. Heavier
> > > mass, or higher
> > > >velocity requires the generation of more heat to slow the
> > > vehicle. Most MGs
> > > >are light and do not make many hard stops from high speed.
> > > Panic braking
> > > >tends to be a one time event (unless you are in LA) and the
> > > brakes then have
> > > >time to cool. As stated, the MGB has more than enough brake
> > > to lock up all
> > > >wheels if you put enough foot pressure on the brake pedal.
> > > Under hard
> > > >braking the center of gravity moves forward lightening the
> > > rear end. This
> > > >allows the rear wheels to lock up, which is the limiting
> > > braking factor. To
> > > >prevent this different diameter wheel cylinders are used to
> > > reduce rear
> > > >wheel braking.
> > > > The four puck vented brakes from the UK are real
> > > expensive, and not
> > > >legal for most racing in the US. That is why Moss has never
> > > carried them.
> > > >I'm hoping that we can come up with a US supplied set up
> at a more
> > > >reasonable cost sometime, for the Ricky race set.
> > > > Drilled rotors look really cool and do improve
> > > cooling. So they do
> > > >qualify as useful HFPD accessories. (This is a standard of
> > > coolness that I
> > > >created in college, measured in quantity of sexual
> > > gratification per dollar,
> > > >HFPD items include LED meters on stereos, plastic wheel
> > > covers etc.) As
> > > >for wet weather improvements, the concept that water
> will magically
> > > >dissipate through the holes IMHO is hooey. The lack of
> > > braking in wet
> > > >weather is due to the rear drum brakes getting all icky,
> > > nothing to do with
> > > >sweeping water from the front discs. Test this by slamming
> > > on your brakes
> > > >in the wet. The front wheels will lock almost instantly.
> > > >
> > > > The feel of your brakes is what makes the driving
> > > difference, not
> > > >the real braking ability. Increasing the braking ability
> > > for a certain
> > > >amount of pedal force gives the feeling of better brakes.
> > > The braking
> > > >ability is limited to the grip of the tire under braking
> > > conditions. Bigger
> > > >brakes give the impression that there is more braking
> > > ability, because for a
> > > >given pedal pressure the car stops quicker. If however you
> > > are able to lock
> > > >up all four wheels with stock brakes, then you are
> gaining nothing in
> > > >braking ability, except the lack of leg exercise.
> > > Improvements come from
> > > >the ability to modulate pressure so that maximum braking
> > > force before lockup
> > > >can be exerted. It is easier to modulate the brakes at
> > > lower pressures,
> > > >than with your leg mashed to the floor. That is where brake
> > > servos and
> > > >bigger brakes come in handy. You can apply full braking
> > > with more control.
> > > >Increased cooling ability becomes useful only under
> > > aggressive use, not
> > > >normally found in street driving.
> > > >
> > > > Tab. My suggestion is that you make sure that your
> > > stock brakes are
> > > >in good condition, and adjusted correctly. Then take a good
> > > hard look at
> > > >your tires. I would put any investment into your tires
> > > first, as they are
> > > >the weakest link on the car. A high quality 185/70 tire
> > > mounted on the
> > > >stock Rostyle or 5 1/2 inch alloy will make a huge
> > > difference to all around
> > > >safety.
> > > >
> > > >BTW don't worry too much about misquotes. Most advertising
> > > text is written
> > > >at the last minute by well meaning folks, who don't always
> > > get it quite
> > > >right.
> > > >
> > > >Kelvin.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Before I misquote our friends at Moss...
> > > > >
> > > > > I have seen something in their catalog, pretty sure, and I
> > > > > believe it was
> > > > > the cross-drilled rotors, basically with the holes to let the
> > > > > water out and
> > > > > stop faster in wet weather. I agree in theory it makes
> > > > > sense, but I'm
> > > > > looking for someone who actually has tried them.
> > > > >
> > > > > However my Moss catalog is in the MG at the moment, and the
> > > > > MG is at the
> > > > > shop getting some work done to it.
> > > > >
> > > > > The VB catalog is here, though. They offer 2 things. It may
> > > > > be my fault
> > > > > for not differentiating. First (pg 28 of Spring 2000
> edition) has
> > > > > "Ventilated Brake Disc Rotor... For Safer & Shorter Stopping
> > > > > Power" (With
> > > > > the Ventilated Disc Brake Rotor Set you can improve your
> > > brakes heat
> > > > > dissipation to insure safer, straighter, and shorter stopping
> > > > > power. Ventilated with holes to help keep your brakes
> > > > > cooler, any water
> > > > > that forms is shifted into the holes, therefore the need for
> > > > > the brake pad
> > > > > to shift the water before it begins braking is
> > > eliminated. The more
> > > > > efficiently your MGB's brakes dissipate heat, the more
> > > > > efficient they will
> > > > > perform."
> > > > >
> > > > > Second, page 26, what I looked quickly and thought was
> > > the same, is
> > > > > not. "The Ultimate in Stopping Power for Your MGB" (and it
> > > > > lists years
> > > > > 62-80, so I'm not sure this is the same as what Kelvin
> > > was referring
> > > > > to). "(marketing stuff snipped) Complete Bolt-on brake
> > > kit Includes:
> > > > > Vented rotors with adapters, 4 piston calipers, Carbon fiber
> > > > > disc pads,
> > > > > Stainless front brake hoses, and Hardware. The four
> > > piston calipers
> > > > > increase clamping power of carbon fiber pads on vented
> > > > > rotors. This gives
> > > > > you many benefits: decreased stopping distance, better
> > > > > cooling, and reduced
> > > > > brake fade. These brakes perform better and last longer
> > > under harsh
> > > > > conditions. Track proven on MGB race cars. This is the kit
> > > > > MGB racers are
> > > > > using."
> > > > >
> > > > > The picture, now that I look at it, clearly shows the kit
> > > on pg 26 is
> > > > > vented (on edges) and not cross-drilled (like the
> > > > > "Ventilated" ones on page
> > > > > 28).
> > > > >
> > > > > I'm interested in opinions on either kit. Given what Kelvin
> > > > > said about my
> > > > > having power brakes, is the Vented Rotor kit still
> > > > > applicable? Which I
> > > > > presume it is, given it lists the years 62 to 80
> (mine is a '78).
> > > > >
> > > > > Hope this clears it up a bit...
> > > > >
> > >
> > >
>
>
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