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Hi Simon, I spend a lot of my time extracting broken studs and bolts ... it
comes with the territory and can be both a rewarding and frustrating
experience.
Here are some things that I have learned (The hard way in most instances)
- There is a huge difference between steel bolts seized in steel as
compared with aluminium.
- When it comes to corroded bolts the problem is that the product(s) of
the oxidation which occupy considerably more space than the original met=
al.
- With steel in steel (of cast iron) the usual culprit is iron oxide
which has a wonderful property in that it changes to something else of
lesser volume when heated sufficiently so, when you can heat the bolt an=
d
its surrounding material to a sufficient temperature (not always practic=
al)
the seized bolt will miraculously be released at least to some degree.
- With aluminium, unfortunately, the same treatment does not work. Heat
it until the surrounding material melts and it still will not be release=
d.
- If the bolt or stud has been broken as a consequence of over
tightening, which is very common with BSF threaded fasteners, and you ca=
n
get a grip on the offending piece, it will usually come out easily. One =
of
the easiest ways to do this is to place a nut over the top of the broken
part then TIG or MIG weld the nut to the fastener. This achieves 2 thing=
s,
firstly it gives you something to grip and secondly the heating caused b=
y
the welding will often help release the fastener.
- If someone (never you of course) managed to break off a fastener while
trying to undo it then it is almost a certainty that the thread is seize=
d
in the component and just gripping and trying to turn the remaining part
will not work.
- It is really worth learning how to accurately "drill out" a broken
fastener. This is particularly useful for fasteners seized in aluminium.
The process takes practice and involves.
1. If possible filing the top of the fastener flat then VERY CAREFULLY
center punching exactly on center.
2. Drill a small diameter hole well into the fastener (be careful not to
break off a drill bit as they are hardened and impossible to drill out).
The center drilling is best done on a drill press although a hand held
drill can be useful for correcting that critical center position.
3. Once you are satisfied that you have the "pilot" hole drilled on
center start drilling the hole out with increasing diameter drills until
you reach the root diameter (tapping size) of the fastener and right to =
the
bottom of the fastener. It is critical that this part be done on a drill
press and that high speed and lots of cutting fluid are used and take ex=
tra
care as you "break through" the end of the fastener as you drill it out.
4. Use a pin pinch on the outside of the remaining fastener to collapse
it inward. If you are lucky you may be able to grip the end and pull the
old fastener like a spring.
5. Carefully run a tap of the correct size down the hole to clear out
any debris. Take your time and DON'T BREAK THE TAP OFF OR YOU ARE TOTALL=
Y
SCREWED !
So back to your question. If the fasteners have been broken off because
they have seized into the seat base it is very unlikely that you will be
able to achieve your aim using any sort of flame heating and soldering
definitely will not work. I would recommend trying the nut and MIG welder
process first. If that doesn't work it will be a good opportunity to
practice your "drilling out" skills. Looks as though you need a friend with
a pickup truck MIG welder.
Good luck.
M
On Tue, Dec 1, 2020 at 9:53 AM Simon Lachlan via Healeys <
healeys@autox.team.net> wrote:
> I should like to buy some form of blow torch, something hot. I=E2=80=99m =
looking
> for something hotter than my regular plumbing item and much cheaper and
> more portable than the big set-ups=E2=80=A6with which I=E2=80=99m barely =
acquainted=E2=80=A6.MIG,
> TIG(?) and oxy-acetylene rigs with vast bottles on a trolley.
>
> I=E2=80=99m after something with which to heat up stuck bolts, maybe do a=
bit of
> light brazing or heavy soldering. Something portable=E2=80=A6..pick it up=
, click,
> use it, switch off & move on.
>
> I=E2=80=99ve seen one set-up which has two small bottles, one of oxygen t=
he other
> of =E2=80=9CHigh power gas mixture AT 3000=E2=80=9D. This latter bottle a=
pparently being a
> 65% butane & 25% propylene mix.
>
> As you may have gathered, I know nothing of these matters=E2=80=A6
>
> As a sample of what I=E2=80=99m looking for, the first task will require =
a rapid
> heat to solder or braze nuts onto broken off bolts. Rapid because the bol=
ts
> are in the underside of the (previous) seat for my ride-on mower. These
> bolts are surrounded by the foam rubber of which the seat is largely buil=
t.
> Were I able to extract them without wrecking the seat, I could probably
> flog the seat on eBay for +/-=C2=A375.00 which would largely recoup the c=
ost of
> a torch?? (Parts and labour on ride-ons are ridiculous over here. (UK). F=
or
> example, I used to take my wife=E2=80=99s Porsche 944S2 to a specialist P=
orsche
> garage. Not a Main Dealer. His hourly rate was less than that of the loca=
l
> garden machinery thieves). As ever, I digress.
>
> So, what should I be looking at? I see MAPP torches, but they don=E2=80=
=99t appear
> to be much better than my plumbing torch=E2=80=A6.? Or are they?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Simon
> _______________________________________________
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>
>
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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"fon=
t-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:small">Hi Simon, I spend a lot =
of my time extracting broken studs and bolts ... it comes with the territor=
y and can be both a rewarding and frustrating experience.</div><div class=
=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:=
small">Here are some things that I have learned (The hard way in most insta=
nces)</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:comic sans ms,=
sans-serif;font-size:small"><ul><li>There is a huge difference between stee=
l bolts seized in steel as compared with aluminium.</li><li>When it comes t=
o corroded bolts the problem is that the product(s) of the oxidation which =
occupy considerably more space than the original metal. </li><li>With steel=
in steel (of cast iron) the usual culprit is iron oxide which has a wonder=
ful property in that it changes to something else of lesser volume when hea=
ted sufficiently so, when you can heat the bolt and its surrounding materia=
l to a sufficient temperature (not always practical) the seized bolt will m=
iraculously be released at least to some degree.=C2=A0 </li><li>With alumin=
ium, unfortunately, the same treatment does not work. Heat it until the sur=
rounding material melts and it still will not be released.</li><li>If the b=
olt or stud has been broken as a consequence of over tightening, which is v=
ery common with BSF threaded fasteners, and you can get a grip on the offen=
ding piece, it will usually come out easily. One of the easiest ways to do =
this is to place a nut over the top of the broken part then TIG or MIG weld=
the nut to the fastener. This achieves 2 things, firstly it gives you some=
thing to grip and secondly the heating caused by the welding will often hel=
p release the fastener.<br></li><li>If someone (never you of course) manage=
d to break off a fastener while trying to undo it then it is almost a certa=
inty that the thread is seized in the component and just gripping and tryin=
g to turn the remaining part will not work.</li><li>It is really worth lear=
ning how to accurately "drill out" a broken fastener. This is par=
ticularly useful for fasteners seized in aluminium. The process takes pract=
ice and involves.</li></ul></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font=
-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:small"><ol style=3D"margin-left:=
40px"><li>If possible filing the top of the fastener flat then VERY CAREFUL=
LY center punching exactly on center.</li><li>Drill a small diameter hole w=
ell into the fastener (be careful not to break off a drill bit as they are =
hardened and impossible to drill out). The center drilling is best done on =
a drill press although a hand held drill can be useful for correcting that =
critical center position. <br></li><li>Once you are satisfied that you have=
the "pilot" hole drilled on center start drilling the hole out w=
ith increasing diameter drills until you reach the root diameter (tapping s=
ize) of the fastener and right to the bottom of the fastener. It is critica=
l that this part be done on a drill press and that high speed and lots of c=
utting fluid are used and take extra care as you "break through" =
the end of the fastener as you drill it out.<br></li><li>Use a pin pinch on=
the outside of the remaining fastener to collapse it inward. If you are lu=
cky you may be able to grip the end and pull the old fastener like a spring=
.</li><li>Carefully run a tap of the correct size down the hole to clear ou=
t any debris. Take your time and DON'T BREAK THE TAP OFF OR YOU ARE TOT=
ALLY SCREWED !</li></ol><div>So back to your question. If the fasteners hav=
e been broken off because they have seized into the seat base it is very un=
likely that you will be able to achieve your aim using any sort of flame he=
ating and soldering definitely will not work. I would recommend trying the =
nut and MIG welder process first. If that doesn't work it will be a goo=
d opportunity to practice your "drilling out" skills. Looks as th=
ough you need a friend with a <strike>pickup truck</strike> MIG welder.<br>=
</div><div><br></div><div>Good luck.</div><div><br></div><div>M<br></div><d=
iv><br></div></div></div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"l=
tr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Tue, Dec 1, 2020 at 9:53 AM Simon Lachlan via H=
ealeys <<a href=3D"mailto:healeys@autox.team.net";>healeys@autox.team.net=
</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:=
0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">=
<div style=3D"overflow-wrap: break-word;" lang=3D"EN-GB"><div class=3D"gmai=
l-m_8291417746913794575WordSection1"><p class=3D"MsoNormal">I should like t=
o buy some form of blow torch, something hot. I=E2=80=99m looking for somet=
hing hotter than my regular plumbing item and much cheaper and more portabl=
e than the big set-ups=E2=80=A6with which I=E2=80=99m barely acquainted=E2=
=80=A6.MIG, TIG(?) and oxy-acetylene rigs with vast bottles on a trolley. <=
u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">I=E2=80=99m after something with wh=
ich to heat up stuck bolts, maybe do a bit of light brazing or heavy solder=
ing. Something portable=E2=80=A6..pick it up, click, use it, switch off &am=
p; move on. <u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">I=E2=80=99ve seen one =
set-up which has two small bottles, one of oxygen the other of =E2=80=9CHig=
h power gas mixture AT 3000=E2=80=9D. This latter bottle apparently being a=
65% butane & 25% propylene mix.<u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal=
">As you may have gathered, I know nothing of these matters=E2=80=A6<u></u>=
<u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">As a sample of what I=E2=80=99m looking f=
or, the first task will require a rapid heat to solder or braze nuts onto b=
roken off bolts. Rapid because the bolts are in the underside of the (previ=
ous) seat for my ride-on mower. These bolts are surrounded by the foam rubb=
er of which the seat is largely built. Were I able to extract them without =
wrecking the seat, I could probably flog the seat on eBay for +/-=C2=A375.0=
0 which would largely recoup the cost of a torch?? (Parts and labour on rid=
e-ons are ridiculous over here. (UK). For example, I used to take my wife=
=E2=80=99s Porsche 944S2 to a specialist Porsche garage. Not a Main Dealer.=
His hourly rate was less than that of the local garden machinery thieves).=
As ever, I digress.<u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">So, what shoul=
d I be looking at? I see MAPP torches, but they don=E2=80=99t appear to be =
much better than my plumbing torch=E2=80=A6.? Or are they?<u></u><u></u></p=
><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thanks,<u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Sim=
on<u></u><u></u></p></div></div>___________________________________________=
____<br>
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