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Good thought. We had one where the tube to the jet had a little nick in
the end which caused a flap that partially covered the end. Only showed
up under extended load, had a devil of a time finding the issue.
Tony
On 10/20/2018 6:58 AM, Phil Gott via Fot wrote:
> Speaking of holes in float bowls, the exit hole at the bottom that
> feeds the jet can also vary in size. Be sure itâ??s big enough and the
> hose to the jet is not crimped or restricted in any way. Mike did say
> he got a decent A/F ratio, so. It likely his issue, but it was with my
> TR.
> Phil
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Oct 19, 2018, at 8:21 PM, Mike Harmuth via Fot <fot@autox.team.net
>
>> Thanks for all the great input. I think I'll stay with the SU's for
>> now and spend the money on Dyno time to see where the issue may be.
>>
>> mike h
>>
>> On Fri, Oct 19, 2018 at 7:13 PM fubog1 via Fot <fot@autox.team.net
>>
>> These are some words of wisdom...
>> Glen
>> ps- I've found different size holes in the float valves, also
>> grose jets are particularly restrictive.
>>
>> The SU's are so simple minded and easy to work with I'd want
>> to very certain that the was a BIG benifit before changing to
>> jetted carbs that need a ton of parts of you are going to
>> make use of the capacity of the units.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Kas Kastner <kaskastner@gmail.com
>> Cc: Van Mulders Marcel <van.mulders.marcel@telenet.be
>> Sent: Fri, Oct 19, 2018 12:32 pm
>> Subject: Re: [Fot] Weber vs Mikuni
>>
>> Lots of times at the higher revs the float bowls of the S.U.'s
>> just run out of gas and they need an enlargment of the needle and
>> seat.Many times the stock needle and seat j ust does not have
>> enough capacity to flow the fuel needed for the much richer
>> needles used and the revvs. The SU's are so simple minded and
>> easy to work with I'd want to very certain that the was a BIG
>> benifit before changing to jetted carbs that need a ton of parts
>> of you are going to make use of the capacity of the units.
>>
>> Â If you do not tune for the day and the weather at that time what
>> is the point in having all that adustment. With the SU a couple
>> flats adjustment up or down and you are done the hour. Bigger
>> machinery does not mean bigger power or even more useful power.
>>
>> BUT, if you are going for the expensive route, get the msot you
>> can get. DCOE 45's are the ticket. Start with a small venturi
>> and work up from there. Yes, you neeed to buy alterate venturies
>> otherwise you have just wasted your money.These same carbs were
>> used on the Sebring and Le Mans Spitfire coupes 1147 cc enginesÂ
>> and proved 3% more power by tuning. To get the benifit you need
>> to work at it.
>> *Never be beaten by equipment.*
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Oct 19, 2018 at 9:01 AM fubog1 via Fot
>> <fot@autox.team.net> wrote:
>>
>> Yes HS4 carbs.
>> Glen
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: van.mulders.marcel <van.mulders.marcel@telenet.be>
>> To: fubog1 <fubog1@aol.com>
>> Cc: fot <fot@autox.team.net>
>> Sent: Thu, Oct 18, 2018 5:48 pm
>> Subject: Re: [Fot] Weber vs Mikuni
>>
>> Glen,
>> With 1 1/2s carburettors, I suppose you mean HS4? The SU
>> logic is a little weird. 1" + 1/2" = 6/8" so you would think
>> it are HS6s, but when talking about HS carburettors, 1 + 1/2
>> = 1 + 4/8 and they took the 4 to name these carbs HS4...
>> Marcel
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> *Van: *"fubog1" <fubog1@aol.com>
>> *Aan: *"van mulders marcel" <van.mulders.marcel@telenet.be>,
>> "Mike Harmuth" <ofracer@gmail.com>
>> *Cc: *"fot" <fot@autox.team.net>
>> *Verzonden: *Donderdag 18 oktober 2018 22:39:39
>> *Onderwerp: *Re: [Fot] Weber vs Mikuni
>>
>> Well I won't speculate on the cause, but I doubt that it's
>> the SUs.
>> My small crank 1300 w/1 1/2s on a eurospec manifold w/Stahls
>> header, "big" valve head, would buzz easily to 9k, still
>> making power, if I let it.
>> Normal shift point 7800-8000.
>> FWIW...
>> Glen
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: van.mulders.marcel--- via Fot <fot@autox.team.net>
>> To: Mike Harmuth <ofracer@gmail.com>
>> Cc: fot <fot@autox.team.net>
>> Sent: Thu, Oct 18, 2018 2:12 pm
>> Subject: Re: [Fot] Weber vs Mikuni
>>
>> -"...hitting a wall at that point..." : is it possible this
>> is rather pointing to the camshaft than to the SU's? If it
>> are the carburettors, maybe the power would decrease more
>> gradually above 6500 rpm.
>> -In general one choke per cylinder is better, and 2 Webers 40
>> DCOE isn't overkill I think
>> - what about trying HS6 SU's on your actual manifold?
>> At what maximum rpm is your engine still reliable?
>> Marcel
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> *Van: *"fot" <fot@autox.team.net>
>> *Aan: *"fot" <fot@autox.team.net>
>> *Verzonden: *Woensdag 17 oktober 2018 15:49:45
>> *Onderwerp: *[Fot] Weber vs Mikuni
>>
>> I'm looking into switching out my twin HS4s on the 1296 race
>> engine to either Weber or Mukinis. I know this has been done
>> for years and I'd like to get close the best set up out of
>> the gate.
>>
>> I don't think the SUs are up to the task of moving enough air
>> with the new ported head and Stahl header. I've worked on the
>> SUs and gotten them to finally deliver a good AFR , 12.6, at
>> 6500 RPM under load but I seem to hit a wall (figuratively)
>> at that point. I suspect that the openings just aren't big
>> enough to deliver the mass of air required. (spreadsheet or
>> other flow calculator link appreciated)
>> Biggest gate I suspect is the intake valve, 1 3/8" head
>> (~35mm) HS4 is ~38mm at best.
>>
>> Recommendations? I've seen all these setups at the track,
>> each with pluses, minuses and overkill cause it looks cool.
>>
>> One weber DCOE 40 or 2? what jets, tubes etc for a starting
>> point? Best manifold?
>>
>> 2 or 4 Mikuni 40? jet size?
>>
>> thanks
>> mike
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> fot@autox.team.net
>>
>> http://www.fot-racing.com
>>
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>>
>> http://www.fot-racing.com
>>
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>>
>> http://www.fot-racing.com
>>
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>>
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>
>
> _______________________________________________
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>
> http://www.fot-racing.com
>
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<p>Good thought. We had one where the tube to the jet had a little
nick in the end which caused a flap that partially covered the
end. Only showed up under extended load, had a devil of a time
finding the issue.</p>
<p>Tony<br>
</p>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 10/20/2018 6:58 AM, Phil Gott via
Fot wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:DEC8A9DC-891F-4B53-A5E1-8F9AA6D3EF54@aol.com">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
Speaking of holes in float bowls, the exit hole at the bottom that
feeds the jet can also vary in size. Be sure itâ??s big enough and
the hose to the jet is not crimped or restricted in any way. Mike
did say he got a decent A/F ratio, so. It likely his issue, but it
was with my TR.
<div>Phil<br>
<br>
<div id="AppleMailSignature" dir="ltr">Sent from my iPhone</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
On Oct 19, 2018, at 8:21 PM, Mike Harmuth via Fot <<a
href="mailto:fot@autox.team.net";
moz-do-not-send="true">fot@autox.team.net</a>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>Thanks for all the great input. I think I'll stay
with the SU's for now and spend the money on Dyno time
to see where the issue may be.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>mike h<br>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr">On Fri, Oct 19, 2018 at 7:13 PM fubog1 via
Fot <<a href="mailto:fot@autox.team.net";
moz-do-not-send="true">fot@autox.team.net</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><font
size="2" face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"
color="black">
<div> <font size="2">These are some words of
wisdom...</font></div>
<div><font size="2">Glen</font></div>
<div><font size="2">ps- I've found different size
holes in the float valves, also grose jets are
particularly restrictive.</font><br>
</div>
<div
style="font-family:arial,helvetica;font-size:10pt;color:black">
<blockquote style="border-left:2px solid
blue;padding-left:3px">The SU's are so simple
minded and easy to work with I'd want to very
certain that the was a BIG benifit before changing
to jetted carbs that need a ton of parts of you
are going to make use of the capacity of the
units.
</blockquote>
</div>
<div> <br>
</div>
<div> <br>
</div>
<div> <br>
</div>
<div
style="font-family:arial,helvetica;font-size:10pt;color:black">-----Original
Message-----<br>
From: Kas Kastner <<a
href="mailto:kaskastner@gmail.com"; target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">kaskastner@gmail.com</a>><br>
To: fubog1 <<a href="mailto:fubog1@aol.com";
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">fubog1@aol.com</a>><br>
Cc: Van Mulders Marcel <<a
href="mailto:van.mulders.marcel@telenet.be";
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">van.mulders.marcel@telenet.be</a>>;
FOT <<a href="mailto:fot@autox.team.net";
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">fot@autox.team.net</a>><br>
Sent: Fri, Oct 19, 2018 12:32 pm<br>
Subject: Re: [Fot] Weber vs Mikuni<br>
<br>
<div id="m_-245757380513494367yiv6253483699">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">Lots of times at the higher revs
the float bowls of the S.U.'s just run out of
gas and they need an enlargment of the needle
and seat.Many times the stock needle and seat
j ust does not have enough capacity to flow
the fuel needed for the much richer needles
used and the revvs. The SU's are so simple
minded and easy to work with I'd want to very
certain that the was a BIG benifit before
changing to jetted carbs that need a ton of
parts of you are going to make use of the
capacity of the units.
<div><br clear="none">
</div>
<div>Â If you do not tune for the day and the
weather at that time what is the point in
having all that adustment. With the SU a
couple flats adjustment up or down and you
are done the hour. Bigger machinery does not
mean bigger power or even more useful power.
<div><br clear="none">
</div>
<div>BUT, if you are going for the expensive
route, get the msot you can get. DCOE
45's are the ticket. Start with a small
venturi and work up from there. Yes, you
neeed to buy alterate venturies otherwise
you have just wasted your money.These same
carbs were used on the Sebring and Le Mans
Spitfire coupes 1147 cc engines and
proved 3% more power by tuning. To get the
benifit you need to work at it.<br
clear="all">
<div>
<div
class="m_-245757380513494367yiv6253483699gmail_signature"
dir="ltr">
<div><strong><font color="#000099">Never
be beaten by
equipment.</font></strong></div>
</div>
</div>
<br clear="none">
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br clear="none">
<div
class="m_-245757380513494367yiv6253483699gmail_quote">
<div
class="m_-245757380513494367yiv6253483699yqt4822778474"
id="m_-245757380513494367yiv6253483699yqtfd10159">
<div dir="ltr">On Fri, Oct 19, 2018 at 9:01
AM fubog1 via Fot <<a rel="noopener
noreferrer" shape="rect"
moz-do-not-send="true">fot@autox.team.net</a>>
wrote:<br clear="none">
</div>
</div>
<blockquote
class="m_-245757380513494367yiv6253483699gmail_quote"
style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px
#ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div
class="m_-245757380513494367yiv6253483699yqt4822778474"
id="m_-245757380513494367yiv6253483699yqtfd33561"><font size="2"
face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"
color="black">
</font>
<div> <font size="2">Yes HS4 carbs.</font></div>
<div><font size="2">Glen</font><br
clear="none">
</div>
<div> <br clear="none">
</div>
<div> <br clear="none">
</div>
<div
style="font-family:arial,helvetica;font-size:10pt;color:black">-----Original
Message-----<br clear="none">
From: van.mulders.marcel <<a
rel="noopener noreferrer" shape="rect"
moz-do-not-send="true">van.mulders.marcel@telenet.be</a>><br
clear="none">
To: fubog1 <<a rel="noopener
noreferrer" shape="rect"
moz-do-not-send="true">fubog1@aol.com</a>><br
clear="none">
Cc: fot <<a rel="noopener noreferrer"
shape="rect"
moz-do-not-send="true">fot@autox.team.net</a>><br
clear="none">
Sent: Thu, Oct 18, 2018 5:48 pm<br
clear="none">
Subject: Re: [Fot] Weber vs Mikuni<br
clear="none">
<br clear="none">
<div
id="m_-245757380513494367yiv6253483699m_-3204379643218842764yiv7557179423">
<div>
<div
style="font-family:Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:10pt;color:#000000">
<div>Glen,</div>
<div>With 1 1/2s carburettors, I
suppose you mean HS4? The SU
logic is a little weird. 1" +
1/2" = 6/8" so you would think
it are HS6s, but when talking
about HS carburettors, 1 + 1/2 =
1 + 4/8 and they took the 4 to
name these carbs HS4...</div>
<div>Marcel</div>
<div><br clear="none">
</div>
<hr
id="m_-245757380513494367yiv6253483699m_-3204379643218842764yiv7557179423zwchr">
<div
class="m_-245757380513494367yiv6253483699m_-3204379643218842764yiv7557179423yqt0596148954"
id="m_-245757380513494367yiv6253483699m_-3204379643218842764yiv7557179423yqt61649">
<div><b>Van: </b>"fubog1" <<a
rel="noopener noreferrer"
shape="rect"
moz-do-not-send="true">fubog1@aol.com</a>><br
clear="none">
<b>Aan: </b>"van mulders
marcel" <<a rel="noopener
noreferrer" shape="rect"
moz-do-not-send="true">van.mulders.marcel@telenet.be</a>>,
"Mike Harmuth" <<a
rel="noopener noreferrer"
shape="rect"
moz-do-not-send="true">ofracer@gmail.com</a>><br
clear="none">
<b>Cc: </b>"fot" <<a
rel="noopener noreferrer"
shape="rect"
moz-do-not-send="true">fot@autox.team.net</a>><br
clear="none">
<b>Verzonden: </b>Donderdag
18 oktober 2018 22:39:39<br
clear="none">
<b>Onderwerp: </b>Re: [Fot]
Weber vs Mikuni<br
clear="none">
</div>
<br clear="none">
<div><span
style="color:black;font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"></span>
<div> <span
style="font-size:small">Well
I won't speculate on the
cause, but I doubt that
it's the SUs.<br
clear="none">
</span></div>
<div><span
style="font-size:small">My
small crank 1300 w/1 1/2s
on a eurospec manifold
w/Stahls header, "big"
valve head, would buzz
easily to 9k, still making
power, if I let it.</span></div>
<div><span
style="font-size:small">Normal
shift point
7800-8000.</span></div>
<div><span
style="font-size:small">FWIW...<br
clear="none">
</span></div>
<div><span
style="font-size:small">Glen</span><br
clear="none">
</div>
<div> <br clear="none">
</div>
<div> <br clear="none">
</div>
<div
style="font-family:arial,helvetica;font-size:10pt;color:black">-----Original
Message-----<br clear="none">
From: van.mulders.marcel---
via Fot <<a rel="noopener
noreferrer" shape="rect"
moz-do-not-send="true">fot@autox.team.net</a>><br
clear="none">
To: Mike Harmuth <<a
rel="noopener noreferrer"
shape="rect"
moz-do-not-send="true">ofracer@gmail.com</a>><br
clear="none">
Cc: fot <<a rel="noopener
noreferrer" shape="rect"
moz-do-not-send="true">fot@autox.team.net</a>><br
clear="none">
Sent: Thu, Oct 18, 2018 2:12
pm<br clear="none">
Subject: Re: [Fot] Weber vs
Mikuni<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
<div
id="m_-245757380513494367yiv6253483699m_-3204379643218842764yiv7557179423">
<div>
<div
style="font-family:Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:10pt;color:#000000">
<div>-"...hitting a
wall at that
point..." : is it
possible this is
rather pointing to
the camshaft than to
the SU's? If it are
the carburettors,
maybe the power
would decrease more
gradually above 6500
rpm.</div>
<div>-In general one
choke per cylinder
is better, and 2
Webers 40 DCOE isn't
overkill I think</div>
<div>- what about
trying HS6 SU's on
your actual
manifold?</div>
<div>At what maximum
rpm is your engine
still reliable?</div>
<div>Marcel</div>
<div><br clear="none">
</div>
<hr
id="m_-245757380513494367yiv6253483699m_-3204379643218842764yiv7557179423zwchr">
<div
class="m_-245757380513494367yiv6253483699m_-3204379643218842764yiv7557179423yqt0105059393"
id="m_-245757380513494367yiv6253483699m_-3204379643218842764yiv7557179423yqt73080">
<div><b>Van: </b>"fot"
<<a
rel="noopener
noreferrer"
shape="rect"
moz-do-not-send="true">fot@autox.team.net</a>><br
clear="none">
<b>Aan: </b>"fot"
<<a
rel="noopener
noreferrer"
shape="rect"
moz-do-not-send="true">fot@autox.team.net</a>><br
clear="none">
<b>Verzonden: </b>Woensdag
17 oktober 2018
15:49:45<br
clear="none">
<b>Onderwerp: </b>[Fot]
Weber vs Mikuni<br
clear="none">
</div>
<br clear="none">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div>I'm looking
into switching
out my twin
HS4s on the
1296 race
engine to
either Weber
or Mukinis. I
know this has
been done for
years and I'd
like to get
close the best
set up out of
the gate. <br
clear="none">
</div>
<br clear="none">
<div>I don't
think the SUs
are up to the
task of moving
enough air
with the new
ported head
and Stahl
header. I've
worked on the
SUs and gotten
them to
finally
deliver a good
AFR , 12.6, at
6500 RPM under
load but I
seem to hit a
wall
(figuratively)
at that point.
I suspect that
the openings
just aren't
big enough to
deliver the
mass of air
required.
(spreadsheet
or other flow
calculator
link
appreciated)<br
clear="none">
</div>
<div>Biggest
gate I suspect
is the intake
valve, 1 3/8"
head (~35mm)
HS4 is ~38mm
at best.<br
clear="none">
</div>
<br clear="none">
<div>Recommendations?
I've seen all
these setups
at the track,
each with
pluses,
minuses and
overkill cause
it looks cool.
<br
clear="none">
</div>
<br clear="none">
<div>One weber
DCOE 40 or 2?
what jets,
tubes etc for
a starting
point? Best
manifold? <br
clear="none">
</div>
<br clear="none">
<div>2 or 4
Mikuni 40? jet
size?</div>
<br clear="none">
<div>thanks</div>
<div>mike<br
clear="none">
</div>
</div>
<br clear="none">
_______________________________________________<br clear="none">
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noreferrer"
shape="rect"
moz-do-not-send="true">fot@autox.team.net</a><br
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<br clear="none">
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noreferrer"
shape="rect"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.fot-racing.com</a><br
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Donate: <a
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</font>_______________________________________________<br>
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moz-do-not-send="true">fot@autox.team.net</a><br>
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<blockquote type="cite">
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dir="ltr"><span>_______________________________________________</span><br>
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moz-do-not-send="true">fot@autox.team.net</a></span><br>
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moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.fot-racing.com</a></span><br>
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<pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:fot@autox.team.net";>fot@autox.team.net</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="http://www.fot-racing.com";>http://www.fot-racing.com</a>
Archive: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot";>http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot</a>
</pre>
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