--===============1049463605825256892==
--0000000000009664af0578977208
Lots of times at the higher revs the float bowls of the S.U.'s just run out
of gas and they need an enlargment of the needle and seat.Many times the
stock needle and seat j ust does not have enough capacity to flow the fuel
needed for the much richer needles used and the revvs. The SU's are so
simple minded and easy to work with I'd want to very certain that the was a
BIG benifit before changing to jetted carbs that need a ton of parts of you
are going to make use of the capacity of the units.
If you do not tune for the day and the weather at that time what is the
point in having all that adustment. With the SU a couple flats adjustment
up or down and you are done the hour. Bigger machinery does not mean bigger
power or even more useful power.
BUT, if you are going for the expensive route, get the msot you can get.
DCOE 45's are the ticket. Start with a small venturi and work up from
there. Yes, you neeed to buy alterate venturies otherwise you have just
wasted your money.These same carbs were used on the Sebring and Le Mans
Spitfire coupes 1147 cc engines and proved 3% more power by tuning. To get
the benifit you need to work at it.
*Never be beaten by equipment.*
On Fri, Oct 19, 2018 at 9:01 AM fubog1 via Fot <fot@autox.team.net> wrote:
> Yes HS4 carbs.
> Glen
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: van.mulders.marcel <van.mulders.marcel@telenet.be>
> To: fubog1 <fubog1@aol.com>
> Cc: fot <fot@autox.team.net>
> Sent: Thu, Oct 18, 2018 5:48 pm
> Subject: Re: [Fot] Weber vs Mikuni
>
> Glen,
> With 1 1/2s carburettors, I suppose you mean HS4? The SU logic is a little
> weird. 1" + 1/2" = 6/8" so you would think it are HS6s, but when talking
> about HS carburettors, 1 + 1/2 = 1 + 4/8 and they took the 4 to name these
> carbs HS4...
> Marcel
>
> ------------------------------
> *Van: *"fubog1" <fubog1@aol.com>
> *Aan: *"van mulders marcel" <van.mulders.marcel@telenet.be>, "Mike
> Harmuth" <ofracer@gmail.com>
> *Cc: *"fot" <fot@autox.team.net>
> *Verzonden: *Donderdag 18 oktober 2018 22:39:39
> *Onderwerp: *Re: [Fot] Weber vs Mikuni
>
> Well I won't speculate on the cause, but I doubt that it's the SUs.
> My small crank 1300 w/1 1/2s on a eurospec manifold w/Stahls header, "big"
> valve head, would buzz easily to 9k, still making power, if I let it.
> Normal shift point 7800-8000.
> FWIW...
> Glen
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: van.mulders.marcel--- via Fot <fot@autox.team.net>
> To: Mike Harmuth <ofracer@gmail.com>
> Cc: fot <fot@autox.team.net>
> Sent: Thu, Oct 18, 2018 2:12 pm
> Subject: Re: [Fot] Weber vs Mikuni
>
> -"...hitting a wall at that point..." : is it possible this is rather
> pointing to the camshaft than to the SU's? If it are the carburettors,
> maybe the power would decrease more gradually above 6500 rpm.
> -In general one choke per cylinder is better, and 2 Webers 40 DCOE isn't
> overkill I think
> - what about trying HS6 SU's on your actual manifold?
> At what maximum rpm is your engine still reliable?
> Marcel
>
> ------------------------------
> *Van: *"fot" <fot@autox.team.net>
> *Aan: *"fot" <fot@autox.team.net>
> *Verzonden: *Woensdag 17 oktober 2018 15:49:45
> *Onderwerp: *[Fot] Weber vs Mikuni
>
> I'm looking into switching out my twin HS4s on the 1296 race engine to
> either Weber or Mukinis. I know this has been done for years and I'd like
> to get close the best set up out of the gate.
>
> I don't think the SUs are up to the task of moving enough air with the new
> ported head and Stahl header. I've worked on the SUs and gotten them to
> finally deliver a good AFR , 12.6, at 6500 RPM under load but I seem to hit
> a wall (figuratively) at that point. I suspect that the openings just
> aren't big enough to deliver the mass of air required. (spreadsheet or
> other flow calculator link appreciated)
> Biggest gate I suspect is the intake valve, 1 3/8" head (~35mm) HS4 is
> ~38mm at best.
>
> Recommendations? I've seen all these setups at the track, each with
> pluses, minuses and overkill cause it looks cool.
>
> One weber DCOE 40 or 2? what jets, tubes etc for a starting point? Best
> manifold?
>
> 2 or 4 Mikuni 40? jet size?
>
> thanks
> mike
>
> _______________________________________________
> fot@autox.team.net
>
> http://www.fot-racing.com
>
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/van.mulders.marcel@telenet.be
> _______________________________________________
> fot@autox.team.net
>
> http://www.fot-racing.com
>
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
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>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> fot@autox.team.net
>
> http://www.fot-racing.com
>
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
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>
>
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--0000000000009664af0578977208
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<div dir=3D"ltr">Lots of times at the higher revs the float bowls of the S.=
U.'s just run out of gas and they need an enlargment of the needle and =
seat.Many times the stock needle and seat j ust does not have enough capaci=
ty to flow the fuel needed for the much richer needles used and the revvs. =
The SU's are so simple minded and easy to work with I'd want to ver=
y certain that the was a BIG benifit before changing to jetted carbs that n=
eed a ton of parts of you are going to make use of the capacity of the unit=
s.<div><br></div><div>=C2=A0If you do not tune for the day and the weather =
at that time what is the point in having all that adustment. With the SU a =
couple flats adjustment up or down and you are done the hour. Bigger machin=
ery does not mean bigger power or even more useful power.<div><br></div><di=
v>BUT, if you are going for the expensive route, get the msot you can get.=
=C2=A0 DCOE 45's are the ticket. Start with a small venturi and work up=
from there. Yes, you neeed to buy=C2=A0 alterate venturies otherwise you h=
ave just wasted your money.These same carbs were used on the Sebring and Le=
Mans Spitfire coupes 1147 cc engines=C2=A0 and proved 3% more power by tun=
ing. To get the benifit you need to work at it.<br clear=3D"all"><div><div =
dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_signature" data-smartmail=3D"gmail_signature"><p=
><strong><font color=3D"#000099">Never be beaten by equipment.</font></stro=
ng></p></div></div><br></div></div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><di=
v dir=3D"ltr">On Fri, Oct 19, 2018 at 9:01 AM fubog1 via Fot <<a href=3D=
"mailto:fot@autox.team.net";>fot@autox.team.net</a>> wrote:<br></div><blo=
ckquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #c=
cc solid;padding-left:1ex"><font color=3D"black" size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial, =
Helvetica, sans-serif">
<div> <font size=3D"2">Yes HS4 carbs.</font></div>
<div><font size=3D"2">Glen</font><br>
</div>
<div> <br>
</div>
<div> <br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica;font-size:10pt;color:black">-----=
Original Message-----<br>
From: van.mulders.marcel <<a href=3D"mailto:van.mulders.marcel@telenet.b=
e" target=3D"_blank">van.mulders.marcel@telenet.be</a>><br>
To: fubog1 <<a href=3D"mailto:fubog1@aol.com"; target=3D"_blank">fubog1@a=
ol.com</a>><br>
Cc: fot <<a href=3D"mailto:fot@autox.team.net"; target=3D"_blank">fot@aut=
ox.team.net</a>><br>
Sent: Thu, Oct 18, 2018 5:48 pm<br>
Subject: Re: [Fot] Weber vs Mikuni<br>
<br>
<div id=3D"m_-3204379643218842764yiv7557179423">
<div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:10pt=
;color:#000000">
<div>Glen,</div>
<div>With 1 1/2s carburettors, I suppose you mean HS4? The SU logic is a li=
ttle weird. 1" + 1/2" =3D 6/8" so you would think it are HS6=
s, but when talking about HS carburettors, 1 + 1/2 =3D 1 + 4/8 and they too=
k the 4 to name these carbs HS4...</div>
<div>Marcel</div>
<div><br clear=3D"none"></div>
<hr id=3D"m_-3204379643218842764yiv7557179423zwchr">
<div class=3D"m_-3204379643218842764yiv7557179423yqt0596148954" id=3D"m_-32=
04379643218842764yiv7557179423yqt61649">
<div><b>Van: </b>"fubog1" <<a href=3D"mailto:fubog1@aol.com"; t=
arget=3D"_blank">fubog1@aol.com</a>><br clear=3D"none"><b>Aan: </b>"=
;van mulders marcel" <<a href=3D"mailto:van.mulders.marcel@telenet.=
be" target=3D"_blank">van.mulders.marcel@telenet.be</a>>, "Mike Har=
muth" <<a href=3D"mailto:ofracer@gmail.com"; target=3D"_blank">ofrac=
er@gmail.com</a>><br clear=3D"none"><b>Cc: </b>"fot" <<a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:fot@autox.team.net"; target=3D"_blank">fot@autox.team.net</a>&g=
t;<br clear=3D"none"><b>Verzonden: </b>Donderdag 18 oktober 2018 22:39:39<b=
r clear=3D"none"><b>Onderwerp: </b>Re: [Fot] Weber vs Mikuni<br clear=3D"no=
ne"></div>
<br clear=3D"none">
<div><span style=3D"color:black;font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font=
-size:small">
</span>
<div> <span style=3D"font-size:small">Well I won't speculate on the cau=
se, but I doubt that it's the SUs.<br clear=3D"none">
</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size:small">My small crank 1300 w/1 1/2s on a euro=
spec manifold w/Stahls header, "big" valve head, would buzz easil=
y to 9k, still making power, if I let it.</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size:small">Normal shift point 7800-8000.</span></=
div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size:small">FWIW...<br clear=3D"none">
</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size:small">Glen</span><br clear=3D"none">
</div>
<div> <br clear=3D"none">
</div>
<div> <br clear=3D"none">
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica;font-size:10pt;color:black">-----=
Original Message-----<br clear=3D"none">
From: van.mulders.marcel--- via Fot <<a href=3D"mailto:fot@autox.team.ne=
t" target=3D"_blank">fot@autox.team.net</a>><br clear=3D"none">
To: Mike Harmuth <<a href=3D"mailto:ofracer@gmail.com"; target=3D"_blank"=
>ofracer@gmail.com</a>><br clear=3D"none">
Cc: fot <<a href=3D"mailto:fot@autox.team.net"; target=3D"_blank">fot@aut=
ox.team.net</a>><br clear=3D"none">
Sent: Thu, Oct 18, 2018 2:12 pm<br clear=3D"none">
Subject: Re: [Fot] Weber vs Mikuni<br clear=3D"none">
<br clear=3D"none">
<div id=3D"m_-3204379643218842764yiv7557179423">
<div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:10pt=
;color:#000000">
<div>-"...hitting a wall at that point..." : is it possible this =
is rather pointing to the camshaft than to the SU's? If it are the carb=
urettors, maybe the power would decrease more gradually above 6500 rpm.</di=
v>
<div>-In general one choke per cylinder is better, and 2 Webers 40 DCOE isn=
't overkill I think</div>
<div>- what about trying HS6 SU's on your actual manifold?</div>
<div>At what maximum rpm is your engine still reliable?</div>
<div>Marcel</div>
<div><br clear=3D"none"></div>
<hr id=3D"m_-3204379643218842764yiv7557179423zwchr">
<div class=3D"m_-3204379643218842764yiv7557179423yqt0105059393" id=3D"m_-32=
04379643218842764yiv7557179423yqt73080">
<div><b>Van: </b>"fot" <<a href=3D"mailto:fot@autox.team.net"; =
target=3D"_blank">fot@autox.team.net</a>><br clear=3D"none"><b>Aan: </b>=
"fot" <<a href=3D"mailto:fot@autox.team.net"; target=3D"_blank"=
>fot@autox.team.net</a>><br clear=3D"none"><b>Verzonden: </b>Woensdag 17=
oktober 2018 15:49:45<br clear=3D"none"><b>Onderwerp: </b>[Fot] Weber vs M=
ikuni<br clear=3D"none"></div>
<br clear=3D"none">
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div>I'm looking into switching out my twin HS4s on the 1296 race engin=
e to either Weber or Mukinis. I know this has been done for years and I'=
;d like to get close the best set up out of the gate. <br clear=3D"none"></=
div>
<br clear=3D"none">
<div>I don't think the SUs are up to the task of moving enough air with=
the new ported head and Stahl header. I've worked on the SUs and gotte=
n them to finally deliver a good AFR , 12.6, at 6500 RPM under load but I s=
eem to hit a wall (figuratively) at that point. I suspect that the openings=
just aren't big enough to deliver the mass of air required. (spreadshe=
et or other flow calculator link appreciated)<br clear=3D"none"></div>
<div>Biggest gate I suspect is the intake valve, 1 3/8" head (~35mm) H=
S4 is ~38mm at best.<br clear=3D"none"></div>
<br clear=3D"none">
<div>Recommendations? I've seen all these setups at the track, each wit=
h pluses, minuses and overkill cause it looks cool. <br clear=3D"none"></di=
v>
<br clear=3D"none">
<div>One weber DCOE 40 or 2? what jets, tubes etc for a starting point? Bes=
t manifold? <br clear=3D"none"></div>
<br clear=3D"none">
<div>2 or 4 Mikuni 40? jet size?</div>
<br clear=3D"none">
<div>thanks</div>
<div>mike<br clear=3D"none"></div>
</div>
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