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That=E2=80=99s pretty much my method, though I=E2=80=99m a little light =
on the pinion stuff. I guess I=E2=80=99ve got away with something. I set =
backlash, put blue on ALL the pinion gears, and then look for a decent =
engagement pattern on the loosest tooth and not too deep on the =
tightest. I=E2=80=99ve never had a ring gear that was so far off that I =
couldn=E2=80=99t make that happen, but then I=E2=80=99ve never used a =
new set. I don=E2=80=99t have a case spreader, I could probably make up =
one, but I just stick the thing in the press and give it a little =
squeeze. That=E2=80=99s probably more stress on the case than a spreader =
would apply to get the same displacement, but it=E2=80=99s worked well =
enough for the times I=E2=80=99ve rebuilt diffs to make it easy to be =
fussy about shimming. I keep at it until I get backlash and engagement =
exactly how I want it.=20
> On Sep 12, 2018, at 10:22 AM, fubog1 via Fot <fot@autox.team.net> =
wrote:
>=20
> The pattern is everything when setting gears up, if they don't mesh =
properly, they're gonna run hot, make noise, and fail.
> There are plenty of photos and illustrations of different patterns on =
the internet.
> I mix a little injuneers blue in with lubriplate white grease, paint a =
half dozen teeth or so, and wrench the ring back and forth a few times, =
while holding the pinion flange for extra preload; repeat 3 or 4 times =
around the ring.
> I use set-up bearings but it's not unusual to have to make fine =
adjustments once the good bearings are fitted.
> Preload is equally important, I don't use the pinion crush collar =
either, I fab a solid collar and fit shims; a case spreader is easier to =
set the carrier in but I've done many without.
> Once you have everything set, you can put a box-end wrench on one of =
the ring gear bolts and work it back and forth hard and you can feel =
when the mesh is nice and smooth in both directions.
> A couple things to watch for, sometimes the carrier will have runout =
from warpage when it was welded, you'll never get a correct backlash =
setting or a good pattern all the way around, and I often find the =
carrier bearing inner races turning on the journal, if not too worn a =
little loctite is your friend but if that race turns on the carrier it =
won't live long...
> Glen
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bob Kramer via Fot <fot@autox.team.net>
> To: Michael Porter <mdporter@dfn.com>
> Cc: Triumph 'Friends of Triumph <fot@autox.team.net>
> Sent: Wed, Sep 12, 2018 8:57 am
> Subject: Re: [Fot] Fwd: Crown and pinion gear break in
>=20
> I would add that if you buy the same brand bearing you can grind out =
the ID of the old races to make it easier to remove them for test =
assemblies.
>=20
> Bob Kramer
>=20
> On Tue, Sep 11, 2018 at 2:08 PM, Michael Porter <mdporter@dfn.com =
> On 9/10/2018 3:41 PM, Bob Kramer via Fot wrote:
> I can't answer that but one could measure the dimension of the pinion =
head and subtract it from the total shown to get the depth you would =
want.=20
>=20
> Bob Kramer
>=20
> I suspect that there are variations in parts due to manufacturing =
errors, tolerances stacking up, etc. Most of the parts made at the time =
were not subject to the sort of scrutiny and computer-controlled =
measurements that are common today (although even that isn't a guarantee =
of uniformity--I had to redo a bunch of Toyota Supra IRS diffs in the =
early `80s because the computer that assembled them was misprogrammed =
and it swapped the shim stacks for the carrier bearings left to right).
>=20
> That said, the safest way to get the diff repaired properly is =
attention to the shims when disassembling, and then putting the shims =
back in the same thicknesses and checking for the proper engagement =
pattern. It does require some educated guesswork, and, often, =
disassembling and assembling a couple of times, but, if the pattern is =
right, the diff will be reliable. I'd also recommend using hard shims =
in place of crush spacers on the pinion whenever possible if the pinion =
originally used those. It also is a bit easier if one uses the case =
spreader judiciously on those housings requiring same, and doesn't crank =
it up too much. Spread the case just enough to get the carrier and =
bearings out. Figuring out the shim packs will be easier.
>=20
>=20
> Cheers. =20
> --=20
>=20
>=20
> Michael Porter
> Roswell, NM
>=20
>=20
> Never let anyone drive you crazy when you know it's within walking =
distance....
>=20
> _______________________________________________
>=20
> http://www.fot-racing.com <http://www.fot-racing.com/>
>=20
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html =
<http://www.team.net/donate.html>
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot =
<http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot>
> Unsubscribe/Manage: =
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/fubog1@aol.com =
<http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/fubog1@aol.com>
>=20
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> fot@autox.team.net
>=20
> http://www.fot-racing.com
>=20
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
> Unsubscribe/Manage: =
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/bill@ponostyle.com
>=20
>=20
--Apple-Mail=_F9E109BA-52B1-4BC5-998C-2E98590266A1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
charset=utf-8
<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D"">That=E2=80=99s pretty much my method, though I=E2=80=99m a =
little light on the pinion stuff. I guess I=E2=80=99ve got away with =
something. I set backlash, put blue on ALL the pinion gears, and then =
look for a decent engagement pattern on the loosest tooth and not too =
deep on the tightest. I=E2=80=99ve never had a ring gear that was so far =
off that I couldn=E2=80=99t make that happen, but then I=E2=80=99ve =
never used a new set. I don=E2=80=99t have a case spreader, I could =
probably make up one, but I just stick the thing in the press and give =
it a little squeeze. That=E2=80=99s probably more stress on the case =
than a spreader would apply to get the same displacement, but it=E2=80=99s=
worked well enough for the times I=E2=80=99ve rebuilt diffs to make it =
easy to be fussy about shimming. I keep at it until I get backlash and =
engagement exactly how I want it. <br class=3D""><div><br =
class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D"">On Sep =
12, 2018, at 10:22 AM, fubog1 via Fot <<a =
href=3D"mailto:fot@autox.team.net"; class=3D"">fot@autox.team.net</a>> =
wrote:</div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D""><font =
size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" class=3D"">
<div style=3D"font-family: arial, helvetica; font-size: 10pt;" class=3D"">=
<div id=3D"AOLMsgPart_2_0ef1842b-a91c-4583-a1b1-489a8d2c7f0d" class=3D"">
<font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" class=3D"">
<div style=3D"font-family: arial, helvetica; font-size: 10pt;" class=3D"">=
<div id=3D"AOLMsgPart_2_3c5bcc87-bb0b-436d-ac40-3730f0a9151a" class=3D"">
<font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" class=3D"">
<div class=3D""> <font size=3D"2" class=3D"">The pattern is everything =
when setting gears up, if they don't mesh properly, they're gonna run =
hot, make noise, and fail.</font></div>
<div class=3D""><font size=3D"2" class=3D"">There are plenty of photos =
and illustrations of different patterns on the internet.</font></div>
<div class=3D""><font size=3D"2" class=3D"">I mix a little injuneers =
blue in with lubriplate white grease, paint a half dozen teeth or so, =
and wrench the ring back and forth a few times, while holding the pinion =
flange for extra preload; repeat 3 or 4 times around the ring.<br =
class=3D"">
</font></div>
<div class=3D""><font size=3D"2" class=3D"">I use set-up bearings but =
it's not unusual to have to make fine adjustments once the good bearings =
are fitted.</font></div>
<div class=3D""><font size=3D"2" class=3D"">Preload is equally =
important, I don't use the pinion crush collar either, I fab a solid =
collar and fit shims; a case spreader is easier to set the carrier in =
but I've done many without.</font></div>
<div class=3D""><font size=3D"2" class=3D"">Once you have everything =
set, you can put a box-end wrench on one of the ring gear bolts and work =
it back and forth hard and you can feel when the mesh is nice and smooth =
in both directions.</font></div>
<div class=3D""><font size=3D"2" class=3D"">A couple things to watch =
for, sometimes the carrier will have runout from warpage when it was =
welded, you'll never get a correct backlash setting or a good pattern =
all the way around, and I often find the carrier bearing inner races =
turning on the journal, if not too worn a little loctite is your friend =
but if that race turns on the carrier it won't live long...</font></div>
<div class=3D""><font size=3D"2" class=3D"">Glen<br class=3D"">
</font></div>
<div class=3D""> <br class=3D"">
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: arial, helvetica; font-size: 10pt;" =
class=3D"">-----Original Message-----<br class=3D"">
From: Bob Kramer via Fot <<a href=3D"mailto:fot@autox.team.net"; =
class=3D"">fot@autox.team.net</a>><br class=3D"">
To: Michael Porter <<a href=3D"mailto:mdporter@dfn.com"; =
class=3D"">mdporter@dfn.com</a>><br class=3D"">
Cc: Triumph 'Friends of Triumph <<a href=3D"mailto:fot@autox.team.net"; =
class=3D"">fot@autox.team.net</a>><br class=3D"">
Sent: Wed, Sep 12, 2018 8:57 am<br class=3D"">
Subject: Re: [Fot] Fwd: Crown and pinion gear break in<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
<div id=3D"AOLMsgPart_1.2_69f3ee0f-771d-4796-bddc-148817a98a67" =
class=3D"">
<div class=3D"aolReplacedBody">
<div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"">I would add that if you buy the same brand =
bearing you can grind out the ID of the old races to make it easier to =
remove them for test assemblies.</div>
<div class=3D"aolmail_gmail_extra"><br clear=3D"all" class=3D"">
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D"aolmail_gmail_signature">
<div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"">Bob Kramer</div>
</div>
</div>
<br class=3D"">
<div class=3D"aolmail_gmail_quote">On Tue, Sep 11, 2018 at 2:08 PM, =
Michael Porter <span dir=3D"ltr" class=3D""><<a target=3D"_blank" =
rel=3D"noopener noreferrer" href=3D"mailto:mdporter@dfn.com"; =
class=3D"">mdporter@dfn.com</a>></span> wrote:<br class=3D"">
<blockquote class=3D"aolmail_gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 =
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
=20
=20
=20
=20
<div class=3D"">
=20
<div class=3D"aolmail_m_4645890251388782201moz-cite-prefix">On 9/10/2018 =
3:41 PM, Bob Kramer via
Fot wrote:<br class=3D"">
</div>
<blockquote class=3D"">
=20
=20
<div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"">I can't answer that but one could measure =
the
dimension of the pinion head and subtract it from the total
shown to get the depth you would want. </div>
=20
<div class=3D"aolmail_gmail_extra"><br clear=3D"all" class=3D"">
=20
<div class=3D"">
=20
<div class=3D"aolmail_m_4645890251388782201gmail_signature">
=20
<div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"">Bob Kramer</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br class=3D"">
I suspect that there are variations in parts due to manufacturing
errors, tolerances stacking up, etc. Most of the parts made at =
the
time were not subject to the sort of scrutiny and
computer-controlled measurements that are common today (although
even that isn't a guarantee of uniformity--I had to redo a bunch of
Toyota Supra IRS diffs in the early `80s because the computer that
assembled them was misprogrammed and it swapped the shim stacks for
the carrier bearings left to right).<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
That said, the safest way to get the diff repaired properly is
attention to the shims when disassembling, and then putting the
shims back in the same thicknesses and checking for the proper
engagement pattern. It does require some educated guesswork, =
and,
often, disassembling and assembling a couple of times, but, if the
pattern is right, the diff will be reliable. I'd also =
recommend
using hard shims in place of crush spacers on the pinion whenever
possible if the pinion originally used those. It also is a bit
easier if one uses the case spreader judiciously on those housings
requiring same, and doesn't crank it up too much. Spread the =
case
just enough to get the carrier and bearings out. Figuring out =
the
shim packs will be easier.<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
Cheers. <br class=3D"">
<span class=3D"aolmail_HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888" class=3D"">
<pre class=3D"aolmail_m_4645890251388782201moz-signature">--=20
Michael Porter
Roswell, NM
Never let anyone drive you crazy when you know it's within walking =
distance....</pre>
</font></span></div>
</blockquote></div>
<br class=3D"">
</div>
</div>
</div>
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</font>_______________________________________________<br class=3D""><a =
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