This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
--===============1700337135==
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00B5_01C91F63.407D0BD0"
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
------=_NextPart_000_00B5_01C91F63.407D0BD0
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
I understand the intent....
When I went through my drivers school in a vintage race group, the
understanding was that you "drove the line". If someone wanted to pass
you, it was their RESPONSIBILITY to make a safe pass.
Or is responsibility not a word to mention in this forum?
One of the other racers shared an anecdote of "moving off line" to allow
easier passing.. and having a racer come in after that session and give him
a new oriface for violating the basic rule.
When I was active in Vintage I was in a close cockpit car (Mini Cooper S) so
giving hand signals was difficult. But my expectation was that if I was
signalling right.. the overtaking car should use that information in order
to make a safe pass.
I guess it's something that needs to be discussed with each vintage group
and a consensus formed before racers go on track. If the rule is "stay on
the line" then one set of rule apply. If it's "if you're not at speed pick
a different line" that also needs to be agreed before cars hit the track.
It all comes down to communication.
Cheers,
Jim
Dallas
too many toys, not enough $$$
_____
From: fot-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces@autox.team.net] On
Behalf Of Bill Babcock
Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 10:51 PM
To: britbits@netzero.com
Cc: 'FOT'
Subject: Re: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving
You may not like this answer, so here's your opportunity to delete before
reading.
I, and I'll bet many other people in the FOT, have been in the "douchebag's
position before, when some guy traveling at a speed that did NOT NEED to be
at the line, pointed me by while I was traveling at full chat--and pointed
me into a place I did not want to go. So my question is, if you were
traveling that slowly, why were you "pretty close to the line"? The line is
where you need to be when you need to be there, in other words, when you are
at speed and it's the only safe way through a corner. If you are driving to
the line, you don't need to be there. If the line is the only place that the
laws of physics permit your car to be, then you do.
There's a reason why they say in any good driver's meeting "if you are not
at racing speed, get off the line". Several years ago this guy who drove a
car at what I considered 3/10s asked me why I always passed him so closely.
I, and the entire race group, generally lapped him at least twice, sometimes
three times. He was driving the line, precisely. Just where his driving
instructor told him to drive. And he never deviated from the line. I
considered him the most dangerous thing I would encounter in any day on the
the track. I was thrilled when he quit "racing". In contrast, when you come
up on a gaggle of FV's battling it out, they might be 20 MPH slower than
you, but they need to be where they are. Nothing but respect for that, lift
and wait.
If you aren't at the limit, then you are blocking the only safe path through
the course at speed. the guys who are coming up behind you can't tuck in
behind and wait for you to finish a corner--they'd have to stand on their
brakes to do that, and that's dangerous in any racing condition. As Burt
Levy might say, the other driver was to blame, but you are responsible.
We really DO call this racing. Vintage events are car shows with picnics.
Vintage races are races. If you are not at racing speed you don't belong
anywhere near the racing line.
On Sep 25, 2008, at 6:04 PM, Jim wrote:
Steven,
Unfortunately they use the "r" word when describing vintage events... so
some of the "kids" who loved Pole Position or the different PC games feel
they need to drive like a jerk to be a "racer". Or maybe they saw "Days of
Thunder" once too often ;)
Aside from keeping an eye on the mirrors, it's probably not a bad idea to
install an in car camera. Next time.. grab an official and show them the
video. It's kind of hard to argue against a video.
Cheers,
Jim
Dallas
-----Original Message-----
From: fot-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces@autox.team.net] On
Behalf Of Steven Belfer
Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 6:24 PM
To: FOT
Subject: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving
Speaking of dangerous driving situations, two weekends ago I raced at
Buttonwillow in my TR3. I had new brakes that needed bedding. This meant I
needed to heat up my brakes in the first practice session, let them cool so
I could have good braking power for the rest of the weekend. I was in the
first group so at 8:30am, I told the proper official-type guys what I needed
to do and started in the back. I'm also running a fresh engine and feeling
that out as well. Anyway, after about 3 or 4 laps I'm just about done
bedding the brakes and I'm about to get lapped. This is the first "Warm-up"
session of the weekend. A red 2002 is approaching me and I waved him to the
left and moved to the right a little bit, while staying pretty close to the
line. Next thing I know the guy is passing me on the right ON THE DIRT at
full speed. He re-entered the track, got a little squirrelly, threw some
rocks onto my car and kept going. This guy was racing hard with a yellow
P1800 and not letting up one bit. He didn't want to sacrifice his lap time
when overtaking me. The level of aggression took me by surprise and made me
angry. It was, after all the morning warm-up and I truly did my best to get
my job done safely and get off
the race track. I tell my friends and family, when they ask if it's
dangerous, "You see, it's a gentlemen's sport and there's no prize money."
I would say that most of the drivers are safe and respectful of their
machines and their abilities but all it takes is one douchebag move and
you're in big trouble.
~SB
_______________________________________________
Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html
http://www.fot-racing.com
Fot mailing list
Fot@autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
____________________________________________________________
Click here to find answers for Love, Problems, and what your Future holds.
http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/Ioyw6i4sufAJOayzbWQtj71HjwvM2
L2ShWzEzSvnDvza8yJPMIlDpj/
_______________________________________________
Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html
http://www.fot-racing.com
Fot mailing list
Fot@autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
Bill Babcock
Babcock & Jenkins
Billb@bnj.com
503.936.7660
www.bnj.com
Editor
Ke Nalu e-Magazine
Paddlesurfing's Web Journal
Bill@kenalu.com
www.kenalu.com
blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog
------=_NextPart_000_00B5_01C91F63.407D0BD0
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dus-ascii=
">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.6000.16608" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY =
style=3D"WORD-WRAP: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-b=
reak: after-white-space">
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D484395603-26092008><FONT face=3D=
Arial =
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>I understand the intent....</FONT></SPAN></DIV>=
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D484395603-26092008><FONT face=3D=
Arial =
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D484395603-26092008><FONT face=3D=
Arial =
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>When I went through my drivers school in a vint=
age race =
group, the understanding was that you "drove the line". If someone=
wanted =
to pass you, it was their RESPONSIBILITY to make a safe =
pass.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D484395603-26092008><FONT face=3D=
Arial =
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D484395603-26092008><FONT face=3D=
Arial =
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>Or is responsibility not a word to mention in t=
his =
forum?</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D484395603-26092008><FONT face=3D=
Arial =
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D484395603-26092008><FONT face=3D=
Arial =
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>One of the other racers shared an anecdote of "=
moving off =
line" to allow easier passing.. and having a racer come in after that se=
ssion =
and give him a new oriface for violating the basic rule.</FONT></SPAN></=
DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D484395603-26092008><FONT face=3D=
Arial =
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D484395603-26092008><FONT face=3D=
Arial =
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>When I was active in Vintage I was in a close c=
ockpit car =
(Mini Cooper S) so giving hand signals was difficult. But my=
=
expectation was that if I was signalling right.. the overtaking car shou=
ld use =
that information in order to make a safe pass.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D484395603-26092008><FONT face=3D=
Arial =
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D484395603-26092008><FONT face=3D=
Arial =
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>I guess it's something that needs to be discuss=
ed with each =
vintage group and a consensus formed before racers go on track. If=
the =
rule is "stay on the line" then one set of rule apply. If it=
's "if =
you're not at speed pick a different line" that also needs to be agreed =
before =
cars hit the track.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D484395603-26092008><FONT face=3D=
Arial =
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D484395603-26092008><FONT face=3D=
Arial =
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>It all comes down to communication.</FONT></SPA=
N></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D484395603-26092008><FONT face=3D=
Arial =
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D484395603-26092008><FONT face=3D=
Arial =
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D484395603-26092008><FONT face=3D=
Arial =
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>Cheers,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D484395603-26092008><FONT face=3D=
Arial =
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D484395603-26092008><FONT face=3D=
Arial =
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>Jim</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D484395603-26092008><FONT face=3D=
Arial =
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>Dallas</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D484395603-26092008><FONT face=3D=
Arial =
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>too many toys, not enough $$$</FONT></SPAN></DI=
V><BR>
<DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader lang=3Den-us dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft>
<HR tabIndex=3D-1>
<FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><B>From:</B> fot-bounces@autox.team.net =
[mailto:fot-bounces@autox.team.net] <B>On Behalf Of </B>Bill =
Babcock<BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, September 25, 2008 10:51 PM<BR><B>To:<=
/B> =
britbits@netzero.com<BR><B>Cc:</B> 'FOT'<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Fot] Be=
dding =
Brakes, dangerous driving<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>You may not like this answer, so here's your opportunity to d=
elete =
before reading.
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>I, and I'll bet many other people in the FOT, have been in the "dou=
chebag's =
position before, when some guy traveling at a speed that did NOT NEED to=
be at =
the line, pointed me by while I was traveling at full chat--and pointed =
me into =
a place I did not want to go. So my question is, if you =
were traveling that slowly, why were you "pretty close to the =
line"? =
The line is where you need to be when you need to be there, in other wor=
ds, when =
you are at speed and it's the only safe way through a corner. If you are=
<SPAN =
class=3DApple-style-span style=3D"TEXT-DECORATION: underline">driving</S=
PAN> to the =
line, you don't need to be there. If the line is the only place that the=
laws of =
physics permit your car to be, then you do. </DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>There's a reason why they say in any good driver's meeting "if you =
are not =
at racing speed, get off the line". Several years ago this guy who drove=
a car =
at what I considered 3/10s asked me why I always passed him so closely. =
I, and =
the entire race group, generally lapped him at least twice, sometimes th=
ree =
times. He was driving the line, precisely. Just where his driving instru=
ctor =
told him to drive. And he never deviated from the line. I considered him=
the =
most dangerous thing I would encounter in any day on the the track. I wa=
s =
thrilled when he quit "racing". In contrast, when you come up on a gaggl=
e of =
FV's battling it out, they might be 20 MPH slower than you, but they nee=
d to be =
where they are. Nothing but respect for that, lift and =
wait. </DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>If you aren't at the limit, then you are blocking the only safe pat=
h =
through the course at speed. the guys who are coming up behind you can't=
tuck in =
behind and wait for you to finish a corner--they'd have to stand on thei=
r brakes =
to do that, and that's dangerous in any racing condition. As Burt Levy m=
ight =
say, the other driver was to blame, but you are responsible. </DIV>=
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>We really DO call this racing. Vintage events are car shows with pi=
cnics. =
Vintage races are races. If you are not at racing speed you don't belong=
=
anywhere near the racing line. </DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><BR>
<DIV>
<DIV>On Sep 25, 2008, at 6:04 PM, Jim wrote:</DIV><BR =
class=3DApple-interchange-newline>
<BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
<DIV>Steven,<BR><BR>Unfortunately they use the "r" word when describin=
g =
vintage events... so<BR>some of the "kids" who loved Pole Position or =
the =
different PC games feel<BR>they need to drive like a jerk to be a "rac=
er". =
Or maybe they saw "Days of<BR>Thunder" once too often ;)<BR><BR>=
Aside =
from keeping an eye on the mirrors, it's probably not a bad idea to<BR=
>install =
an in car camera. Next time.. grab an official and show them =
the<BR>video. It's kind of hard to argue against a =
video.<BR><BR><BR>Cheers,<BR><BR>Jim<BR>Dallas<BR><BR><BR>-----Origina=
l =
Message-----<BR>From: fot-bounces@autox.team.net [<A =
href=3D"mailto:fot-bounces@autox.team.net";>mailto:fot-bounces@autox.te=
am.net</A>] =
On<BR>Behalf Of Steven Belfer<BR>Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 6:=
24 =
PM<BR>To: FOT<BR>Subject: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous =
driving<BR><BR>Speaking of dangerous driving situations, two wee=
kends =
ago I raced at<BR>Buttonwillow in my TR3. I had new brakes that =
needed =
bedding. This meant I<BR>needed to heat up my brakes in the firs=
t =
practice session, let them cool so<BR>I could have good braking power =
for the =
rest of the weekend. I was in the<BR>first group so at 8:30am, I=
told =
the proper official-type guys what I needed<BR>to do and started in th=
e back. =
I'm also running a fresh engine and feeling<BR>that out as well.=
=
Anyway, after about 3 or 4 laps I'm just about done<BR>bedding t=
he =
brakes and I'm about to get lapped. This is the first =
"Warm-up"<BR>session of the weekend. A red 2002 is approaching m=
e and I =
waved him to the<BR>left and moved to the right a little bit, while st=
aying =
pretty close to the<BR>line. Next thing I know the guy is passin=
g me on =
the right ON THE DIRT at<BR>full speed. He re-entered the track, got a=
little =
squirrelly, threw some<BR>rocks onto my car and kept going. This=
guy was =
racing hard with a yellow<BR>P1800 and not letting up one bit. H=
e didn't =
want to sacrifice his lap time<BR>when overtaking me. The level =
of =
aggression took me by surprise and made me<BR>angry. It was, aft=
er all =
the morning warm-up and I truly did my best to get<BR>my job done safe=
ly and =
get off <BR>the race track. I tell my friends and fa=
mily, =
when they ask if it's <BR>dangerous, "You see, it's a gentlemen'=
s sport =
and there's no prize money."<BR>I would say that most of the drivers a=
re safe =
and respectful of their<BR>machines and their abilities but all it tak=
es is =
one douchebag move and<BR>you're in big =
trouble.<BR><BR>~SB<BR><BR><BR>_______________________________________=
________<BR>Support =
Team.Net <A =
href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html";>http://www.team.net/donate.ht=
ml</A><BR><BR><A =
href=3D"http://www.fot-racing.com";>http://www.fot-racing.com</A><BR><B=
R>Fot =
mailing =
list<BR>Fot@autox.team.net<BR>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/f=
ot<BR><BR><BR>__________________________________________________________=
__<BR>Click =
here to find answers for Love, Problems, and what your Future =
holds.<BR>http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/Ioyw6i4sufAJO=
ayzbWQtj71HjwvM2L2ShWzEzSvnDvza8yJPMIlDpj/<BR>__________________________=
_____________________<BR>Support =
Team.Net =
http://www.team.net/donate.html<BR><BR>http://www.fot-racing.com<BR><B=
R>Fot =
mailing =
list<BR>Fot@autox.team.net<BR>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/f=
ot<BR><BR></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR>
<DIV apple-content-edited=3D"true"><SPAN class=3DApple-style-span =
style=3D"WORD-SPACING: 0px; FONT: 14px Helvetica; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; =
COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); TEXT-INDENT: 0px; WHITE-SPACE: normal; LETTER-SPACING=
: normal; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; orphans: 2; widows: 2; -webkit-bord=
er-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webki=
t-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -web=
kit-text-stroke-width: 0">
<DIV =
style=3D"WORD-WRAP: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-b=
reak: after-white-space"><SPAN =
class=3DApple-style-span =
style=3D"WORD-SPACING: 0px; FONT: 14px Helvetica; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; =
COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); TEXT-INDENT: 0px; WHITE-SPACE: normal; LETTER-SPACING=
: normal; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; orphans: 2; widows: 2; -webkit-bord=
er-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webki=
t-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -web=
kit-text-stroke-width: 0px">
<DIV =
style=3D"WORD-WRAP: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-b=
reak: after-white-space"><SPAN =
class=3DApple-style-span =
style=3D"WORD-SPACING: 0px; FONT: 14px Helvetica; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; =
COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); TEXT-INDENT: 0px; WHITE-SPACE: normal; LETTER-SPACING=
: normal; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; orphans: 2; widows: 2; -webkit-bord=
er-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webki=
t-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -web=
kit-text-stroke-width: 0px">
<DIV =
style=3D"WORD-WRAP: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-b=
reak: after-white-space">
<DIV><SPAN class=3DApple-style-span =
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 16px; COLOR: rgb(118,15,79)">Bill Babcock</SPAN></DI=
V>
<DIV>
<DIV =
style=3D"WORD-WRAP: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-b=
reak: after-white-space">
<DIV =
style=3D"WORD-WRAP: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-b=
reak: after-white-space">
<DIV>Babcock & Jenkins</DIV>
<DIV><A href=3D"mailto:Billb@bnj.com";>Billb@bnj.com</A></DIV>
<DIV>503.936.7660</DIV>
<DIV><A href=3D"http://www.bnj.com";>www.bnj.com</A></DIV>
<DIV><BR class=3Dwebkit-block-placeholder></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV><FONT class=3DApple-style-span color=3D#010000>Editor</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT class=3DApple-style-span color=3D#010000>Ke Nalu e-Magazine</=
FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT class=3DApple-style-span color=3D#010000><FONT class=3DApple-=
style-span =
size=3D3><SPAN class=3DApple-style-span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12px"><I>Pad=
dlesurfing's =
Web Journal</I></SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT class=3DApple-style-span color=3D#010000 size=3D3><SPAN =
class=3DApple-style-span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12px"><I><BR =
class=3Dwebkit-block-placeholder></I></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><A href=3D"mailto:Bill@kenalu.com";>Bill@kenalu.com</A></DIV>
<DIV><A href=3D"http://www.kenalu.com";>www.kenalu.com</A></DIV>
<DIV>blog: <A =
href=3D"http://www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog";>www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog</A=
></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></=
DIV><BR></DIV></BODY></HTML>
<font face=3D"Times-New-Roman" size=3D"2"><br><br>______________________=
______________________________________
<br><a href=3Dhttp://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2242/fc/Ioyw6i4unVu=
RKqFpIYxXJ3WkQdqqfRbKCHuwurhb1SIKdsNjsyYwIW/ target=3D"_blank">Reach you=
r goals of being healthier and happier. Click here for diet tips and sol=
utions.</font></a><br>
------=_NextPart_000_00B5_01C91F63.407D0BD0--
--===============1700337135==
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline
_______________________________________________
Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html
http://www.fot-racing.com
Fot mailing list
Fot@autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
--===============1700337135==--
|