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I resemble that remark!!
Jeff Snook
www.snooksdreamcars.com
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Kas Kastner=20
To: Gt6steve@aol.com ; budscars@comcast.net ; Billb@bnj.com ; =
standardtriumph@btinternet.com=20
Cc: fot@autox.team.net ; bdischer@blakedischer.com=20
Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 1:49 PM
Subject: Re: [Fot] CAR RACING & DEATH
If you start thinking about death and racing at the same time you had =
best take up another sport like snooker.
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Gt6steve@aol.com=20
To: budscars@comcast.net ; Billb@bnj.com ; =
standardtriumph@btinternet.com=20
Cc: fot@autox.team.net ; bdischer@blakedischer.com=20
Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 6:36 PM
Subject: Re: [Fot] CAR RACING & DEATH
Hi Bud,
I assume your diatribe is colored with liquor as is my response.
We all know in the backs of our minds that death is a reasonable =
possibility in our game. Worse than that, debilitating injury, IMHO. =20
Nonetheless, we endure, do all we can to improve our chances and try =
not to face it with ourselves or our families. But it is there. It =
could happen. We don't want it to happen but it could. Our wives have =
already thought this through and seen the possibilities. They still =
support our crazy assed efforts to win. So are we lesser than they? =
Maybe we're better at rationalizing...
Still, we'll all be pulling on the nomex and denying that it could =
happen to us while our wives know full well what is at stake.
So do we quit racing and take up backgammon? Some will, most won't. =
We are a kind of warrior and we can't leave that. We'll just leave =
homage to our brethren, clash shields and move on...Steve
In a message dated 9/24/2008 6:11:18 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, =
budscars@comcast.net writes:
Hi Gang....Here It Is.......Straight Out....CAR RACING AND =
DEATH....I've kept kinda' Quiet about the subject ..Regarding Deaths =
in Vintage Racing...and have Layed Back and contemplated things as I've =
read the numerous emails......
The Essence of Race Driving is to go as fast as we can to win!
Some of us will die doing that.....That's just the way it =
is....That's REALLY the way it is.!.....
Vintage...Who the heck knows who's driving over their heads or =
not?...No Way To Tell.....
Racer Bud's Conclusion..I.f the word DANGER creeps into your mind =
very often..DO NOT RACE.......=20
Racer Bud..Spitfire #21
In a message dated 9/24/2008 6:11:18 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, =
budscars@comcast.net writes:
Hi Gang....Here It Is.......Straight Out....CAR RACING AND =
DEATH....I've kept kinda' Quiet about the subject ..Regarding Deaths =
in Vintage Racing...and have Layed Back and contemplated things as I've =
read the numerous emails......
The Essence of Race Driving is to go as fast as we can to win!
Some of us will die doing that.....That's just the way it =
is....That's REALLY the way it is.!.....
Vintage...Who the heck knows who's driving over their heads or =
not?...No Way To Tell.....
Racer Bud's Conclusion..I.f the word DANGER creeps into your mind =
very often..DO NOT RACE.......=20
Racer Bud..Spitfire #21
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Bill Babcock=20
To: John Macartney=20
Cc: fot@autox.team.net ; bdischer@blakedischer.com=20
Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 5:10 PM
Subject: Re: [Fot] VTR & FoT
You wrote the email I thought of writing but decided not to. =
Personally, the only clubs I really want to belong to are the ones that =
have a bar, a restaurant (good one), a pool table and a library (in my =
case that's the Arlington Club, a truly great establishment here in =
Portland), and the ones like the FOT, where no twinkie with a claptrap =
P.O.S. excuse for a LBC gets up at every meeting and rants about =
parliamentary procedure and whether or not they have a quorum to decide =
on tuna fish sandwiches for the picnic. =20
I always thought the VTR existed to document the provenance =
(however modest) of cars. The rest seems kind of ancillary. It's not the =
cars that are diminishing, it's the members--if nothing else they are =
kicking the bucket. No disrespect meant for those that love their clubs, =
but unless these clubs get a lot more interesting, and figure out ways =
to get the self-important twinkies to shut up, there won't be critical =
mass of people younger than 60 taking part.=20
FOT part of VTR (or any other "real" organization)--perish the =
thought.=20
On Sep 24, 2008, at 12:40 PM, John Macartney wrote:
Andy Mace wrote:
This does raise an interesting possibility, were FoT members =
so inclined: perhaps we could become some sort of "Special Chapter" or =
"Affiliate" of VTR?
I take a very 'broad church view' on issues like this, =
essentially summarised as follows:
1. It doesn't really matter how you use your Triumph (or =
Standard) and because of that, there should be room in your local or =
national club to accommodate your usage preference.
2. The vehicle parc is getting smaller each year and current =
owners are getting older. This largely explains the diminution of club =
memberships
3. A surprisingly large number of cars will outlive their =
enthusiast custodians and will need to have 'a home'
4. Clubs (national or local) need to recognise this - and its =
my perception in the UK that clubs don't adequately do this
5. There will come a time when the vehicle parc and custodian =
base is so small that clubs as they currently stand will probably not be =
viable as heretofore. This begs the question
6. What plans are national clubs making to address that =
inevitable eventuality?
7. No-one can confidently expect to substantially 'grow club =
membership.' The vast majority of cars that will survive are already =
known. Barn-Finds will become ever more infrequent
With regard to point 6, my perception of the evidence as it =
relates to the UK (and probably elsewhere too?) is "nothing at all." =
Additionally, for as long as clubs and others continue to provide 'free' =
technical information on "How to .....?" projects via the internet, =
clubs will continue to diminish in size.
Rant off
Jonmac
_______________________________________________
Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html
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http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
Bill Babcock
Babcock & Jenkins
Billb@bnj.com
503.936.7660
www.bnj.com
Editor
Ke Nalu e-Magazine
Paddlesurfing's Web Journal
Bill@kenalu.com
www.kenalu.com
blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog
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<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
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<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY id=3Drole_body style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #000000; =
FONT-FAMILY: Arial"=20
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<DIV><FONT face=3DTahoma color=3D#000080 size=3D4>I resemble that=20
remark!!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DTahoma color=3D#000080 size=3D4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D4>Jeff Snook<BR></FONT><A=20
href=3D"http://www.snooksdreamcars.com";><FONT=20
size=3D4>www.snooksdreamcars.com</FONT></A></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000080 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A title=3Dkaskas@cox.net href=3D"mailto:kaskas@cox.net";>Kas =
Kastner</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=3DGt6steve@aol.com =
href=3D"mailto:Gt6steve@aol.com";>Gt6steve@aol.com</A> ; <A=20
title=3Dbudscars@comcast.net=20
href=3D"mailto:budscars@comcast.net";>budscars@comcast.net</A> ; <A=20
title=3DBillb@bnj.com href=3D"mailto:Billb@bnj.com";>Billb@bnj.com</A> =
; <A=20
title=3Dstandardtriumph@btinternet.com=20
=
href=3D"mailto:standardtriumph@btinternet.com";>standardtriumph@btinternet=
.com</A>=20
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Cc:</B> <A =
title=3Dfot@autox.team.net=20
href=3D"mailto:fot@autox.team.net";>fot@autox.team.net</A> ; <A=20
title=3Dbdischer@blakedischer.com=20
=
href=3D"mailto:bdischer@blakedischer.com";>bdischer@blakedischer.com</A> =
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, September 25, =
2008 1:49=20
PM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Fot] CAR RACING =
&=20
DEATH</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D3>If you start thinking about death and racing at =
the same=20
time you had best take up another sport like snooker.</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A title=3DGt6steve@aol.com=20
href=3D"mailto:Gt6steve@aol.com";>Gt6steve@aol.com</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=3Dbudscars@comcast.net=20
href=3D"mailto:budscars@comcast.net";>budscars@comcast.net</A> ; <A=20
title=3DBillb@bnj.com =
href=3D"mailto:Billb@bnj.com";>Billb@bnj.com</A> ; <A=20
title=3Dstandardtriumph@btinternet.com=20
=
href=3D"mailto:standardtriumph@btinternet.com";>standardtriumph@btinternet=
.com</A>=20
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Cc:</B> <A =
title=3Dfot@autox.team.net=20
href=3D"mailto:fot@autox.team.net";>fot@autox.team.net</A> ; <A=20
title=3Dbdischer@blakedischer.com=20
=
href=3D"mailto:bdischer@blakedischer.com";>bdischer@blakedischer.com</A> =
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, September =
24, 2008=20
6:36 PM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Fot] CAR RACING =
&=20
DEATH</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV><FONT id=3Drole_document face=3DArial color=3D#000000 =
size=3D2>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>Hi Bud,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I assume your diatribe is colored with liquor as is my =
response.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>We all know in the backs of our minds that death is a =
reasonable=20
possibility in our game. Worse than that, debilitating injury, =
IMHO. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Nonetheless, we endure, do all we can to improve our chances =
and try=20
not to face it with ourselves or our families. But it is =
there. =20
It could happen. We don't want it to happen but it =
could. Our=20
wives have already thought this through and seen the =
possibilities. =20
They still support our crazy assed efforts to win. So are we =
lesser=20
than they? Maybe we're better at rationalizing...</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Still, we'll all be pulling on the nomex and denying that it =
could=20
happen to us while our wives know full well what is at stake.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>So do we quit racing and take up backgammon? Some will, =
most=20
won't. We are a kind of warrior and we can't leave that. =
We'll=20
just leave homage to our brethren, clash shields and move =
on...Steve</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 9/24/2008 6:11:18 P.M. Pacific Daylight =
Time,=20
budscars@comcast.net writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue 2px =
solid"><FONT=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" color=3D#000000 size=3D2>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Hi Gang....Here It Is.......Straight =
Out....CAR RACING=20
AND DEATH....I've kept kinda' Quiet about the subject=20
..Regarding Deaths in Vintage Racing...and have Layed Back =
and=20
contemplated things as I've read the numerous=20
emails......</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>The Essence of Race Driving is to go as fast =
as we can=20
to win!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Some of us will die doing that.....That's just =
the way=20
it is....That's REALLY the way it is.!.....</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Vintage...Who the heck knows who's driving =
over their=20
heads or not?...No Way To Tell.....</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Racer Bud's Conclusion..I.f the word =
DANGER creeps=20
into your mind very often..DO NOT RACE....... </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Racer Bud..Spitfire #21</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT =
size=3D2></FONT> </DIV></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 9/24/2008 6:11:18 P.M. Pacific Daylight =
Time,=20
budscars@comcast.net writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue 2px =
solid"><FONT=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" face=3DArial =
color=3D#000000 size=3D2>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Hi Gang....Here It Is.......Straight =
Out....CAR RACING=20
AND DEATH....I've kept kinda' Quiet about the subject=20
..Regarding Deaths in Vintage Racing...and have Layed Back =
and=20
contemplated things as I've read the numerous=20
emails......</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>The Essence of Race Driving is to go as fast =
as we can=20
to win!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Some of us will die doing that.....That's just =
the way=20
it is....That's REALLY the way it is.!.....</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Vintage...Who the heck knows who's driving =
over their=20
heads or not?...No Way To Tell.....</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Racer Bud's Conclusion..I.f the word =
DANGER creeps=20
into your mind very often..DO NOT RACE....... </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Racer Bud..Spitfire #21</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- =
</DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A title=3Dmailto:Billb@bnj.com =
href=3D"mailto:Billb@bnj.com";>Bill=20
Babcock</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
title=3Dmailto:standardtriumph@btinternet.com=20
href=3D"mailto:standardtriumph@btinternet.com";>John =
Macartney</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Cc:</B> <A=20
title=3Dmailto:fot@autox.team.net=20
href=3D"mailto:fot@autox.team.net";>fot@autox.team.net</A> ; <A=20
title=3Dmailto:bdischer@blakedischer.com=20
=
href=3D"mailto:bdischer@blakedischer.com";>bdischer@blakedischer.com</A>=20
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, =
September 24, 2008=20
5:10 PM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Fot] VTR =
&=20
FoT</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>You wrote the email I thought of writing but =
decided not=20
to. Personally, the only clubs I really want to belong to are =
the ones=20
that have a bar, a restaurant (good one), a pool table and a =
library (in=20
my case that's the Arlington Club, a truly great =
establishment=20
here in Portland), and the ones like the FOT, where no twinkie =
with a=20
claptrap P.O.S. excuse for a LBC gets up at every meeting and =
rants=20
about parliamentary procedure and whether or not they =
have a=20
quorum to decide on tuna fish sandwiches for the picnic. =20
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>I always thought the VTR existed to document the provenance =
(however modest) of cars. The rest seems kind of ancillary. It's =
not the=20
cars that are diminishing, it's the members--if nothing else =
they are=20
kicking the bucket. No disrespect meant for those that love =
their clubs,=20
but unless these clubs get a lot more interesting, and =
figure out=20
ways to get the self-important twinkies to shut up, there won't =
be=20
critical mass of people younger than 60 taking part. </DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>FOT part of VTR (or any other "real" =
organization)--<B>perish the=20
thought</B>. </DIV>
<DIV><BR>
<DIV>
<DIV>On Sep 24, 2008, at 12:40 PM, John Macartney =
wrote:</DIV><BR=20
class=3DApple-interchange-newline>
<BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"><SPAN class=3DApple-style-span=20
style=3D"WORD-SPACING: 0px; FONT: 14px Helvetica; =
TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); TEXT-INDENT: 0px; WHITE-SPACE: =
normal; LETTER-SPACING: normal; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; orphans: 2; =
widows: 2; webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; =
webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: =
none; webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; webkit-text-stroke-width: 0">
<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"=20
rightmargin=3D"7" topmargin=3D"7" leftmargin=3D"7" =
bgcolor=3D"#ffffff"=20
bottommargin=3D"7">
<DIV><FONT size=3D3>Andy Mace wrote:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#000000 size=3D3>This does =
raise an=20
interesting possibility, were FoT members so inclined: perhaps =
we=20
could become some sort of "Special Chapter" or "Affiliate" of=20
VTR?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D3></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D3>I take a very 'broad church view' on =
issues like=20
this, essentially summarised as follows:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D3></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D3>1. It doesn't really matter how you use =
your Triumph=20
(or Standard) and because of that, there should be room in =
your local=20
or national club to accommodate your usage =
preference.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D3>2. The vehicle parc is getting smaller =
each year and=20
current owners are getting older. This largely explains the =
diminution=20
of club memberships</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D3>3. A surprisingly large number of cars =
will outlive=20
their enthusiast custodians and will need to have 'a=20
home'</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D3>4. Clubs (national or local) need to =
recognise this=20
- and its my perception in the UK that clubs don't adequately =
do=20
this</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D3>5. There will come a time when the vehicle =
parc and=20
custodian base is so small that clubs as they currently stand =
will=20
probably not be viable as heretofore. This begs the=20
question</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D3>6. What plans are national clubs making to =
address=20
that inevitable eventuality?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D3>7. No-one can confidently expect to =
substantially=20
'grow club membership.' The vast majority of cars that will =
survive=20
are already known. Barn-Finds will become ever more=20
infrequent</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D3></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D3>With regard to point 6, my perception of =
the=20
evidence as it relates to the UK (and probably elsewhere too?) =
is=20
"nothing at all." Additionally, for as long as clubs and =
others=20
continue to provide 'free' technical information on "How to =
.....?"=20
projects via the internet, clubs will continue to diminish in=20
size.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D3></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D3>Rant off</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D3></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D3>Jonmac</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D3></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D3></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT=20
=
size=3D3></FONT> </DIV>_____________________________________________=
__<BR>Support=20
Team.Net<SPAN class=3DApple-converted-space> </SPAN><A=20
title=3Dhttp://www.team.net/donate.html=20
=
href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html";>http://www.team.net/donate.html<=
/A><BR><BR><A=20
title=3Dhttp://www.fot-racing.com/=20
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href=3D"http://www.fot-racing.com/";>http://www.fot-racing.com</A><BR><BR>=
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<DIV><SPAN class=3DApple-style-span=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 16px; COLOR: rgb(118,15,79)">Bill =
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<DIV=20
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<DIV>Babcock & Jenkins</DIV>
<DIV><A title=3Dmailto:Billb@bnj.com=20
href=3D"mailto:Billb@bnj.com";>Billb@bnj.com</A></DIV>
<DIV>503.936.7660</DIV>
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href=3D"http://www.bnj.com/";>www.bnj.com</A></DIV>
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<DIV><FONT class=3DApple-style-span color=3D#010000>Ke Nalu=20
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class=3DApple-style-span size=3D3><SPAN class=3DApple-style-span =
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href=3D"mailto:Bill@kenalu.com";>Bill@kenalu.com</A></DIV>
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href=3D"http://www.kenalu.com/";>www.kenalu.com</A></DIV>
<DIV>blog: <A title=3Dhttp://www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog=20
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Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? =
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