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Hey. There are a few of us out here still in our 30's, at least for a
couple more years. The challenge for me seems to be completing my car
before I turn 40.
I know this was battered about some time ago, but I agree with Bob that
locking in a hard cut off date for "Vintage" is designed obsolescence.
-----Original Message-----
From: fot-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces@autox.team.net] On
Behalf Of Kramer, Robert
Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 5:43 PM
To: John Macartney; N197TR4@cs.com
Cc: fot@autox.team.net; bdischer@blakedischer.com
Subject: Re: [Fot] VTR & FoT
I was born in 1956. My interest in Triumphs starts with the TR6 model I
saw as a teen and led to my exposure to the earlier cars, eventually
racing a TR3, 4 and 4A. The local clubs are the not so secret solution
to our future. We need to support the TR7/TR8 late Spitfire contingents
in our local clubs and we can still grow the marque. This is one of the
problems we have with vintage racing. By cutting off in 1967 or even
1972 we cut off the younger generation, you know the 40 year olds.
_____
From: fot-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces@autox.team.net] On
Behalf Of John Macartney
Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 2:40 PM
To: N197TR4@cs.com
Cc: fot@autox.team.net; bdischer@blakedischer.com
Subject: Re: [Fot] VTR & FoT
Andy Mace wrote:
This does raise an interesting possibility, were FoT members so
inclined: perhaps we could become some sort of "Special Chapter" or
"Affiliate" of VTR?
I take a very 'broad church view' on issues like this, essentially
summarised as follows:
1. It doesn't really matter how you use your Triumph (or Standard) and
because of that, there should be room in your local or national club to
accommodate your usage preference.
2. The vehicle parc is getting smaller each year and current owners are
getting older. This largely explains the diminution of club memberships
3. A surprisingly large number of cars will outlive their enthusiast
custodians and will need to have 'a home'
4. Clubs (national or local) need to recognise this - and its my
perception in the UK that clubs don't adequately do this
5. There will come a time when the vehicle parc and custodian base is so
small that clubs as they currently stand will probably not be viable as
heretofore. This begs the question
6. What plans are national clubs making to address that inevitable
eventuality?
7. No-one can confidently expect to substantially 'grow club
membership.' The vast majority of cars that will survive are already
known. Barn-Finds will become ever more infrequent
With regard to point 6, my perception of the evidence as it relates to
the UK (and probably elsewhere too?) is "nothing at all." Additionally,
for as long as clubs and others continue to provide 'free' technical
information on "How to .....?" projects via the internet, clubs will
continue to diminish in size.
Rant off
Jonmac
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<div class=3DSection1>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Hey.<span =
style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'>
</span>There are a few of us out here still in our 30’s, at least =
for a
couple more years.<span style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'> </span>The =
challenge
for me seems to be completing my car before I turn =
40.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I know this was battered about some =
time
ago, but I agree with Bob that locking in a hard cut off date for =
“Vintage”
is designed obsolescence. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
face=3DTahoma><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>-----Original =
Message-----<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>From:</span></b> =
fot-bounces@autox.team.net
[mailto:fot-bounces@autox.team.net] <b><span =
style=3D'font-weight:bold'>On Behalf
Of </span></b>Kramer, Robert<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Wednesday, =
September 24, 2008
5:43 PM<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> John Macartney; =
N197TR4@cs.com<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Cc:</span></b> fot@autox.team.net;
bdischer@blakedischer.com<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [Fot] VTR =
& FoT</span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I was born in =
1956. My
interest in Triumphs starts with the TR6 model I saw as a teen and led =
to my
exposure to the earlier cars, eventually racing a TR3, 4 and 4A. The =
local
clubs are the not so secret solution to our future. We need to support =
the
TR7/TR8 late Spitfire contingents in our local clubs and we can still =
grow the
marque. This is one of the problems we have with vintage racing. By =
cutting off
in 1967 or even 1972 we cut off the younger generation, you know the 40 =
year
olds. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p>=
</span></font></p>
<div>
<div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in;text-align:center'><font
size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>
<hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter>
</span></font></div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><b><font size=3D2 =
face=3DTahoma><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</spa=
n></font></b><font
size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>
fot-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces@autox.team.net] <b><span
style=3D'font-weight:bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>John Macartney<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Wednesday, =
September 24,
2008 2:40 PM<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> N197TR4@cs.com<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Cc:</span></b> fot@autox.team.net;
bdischer@blakedischer.com<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [Fot] VTR =
& FoT</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
color=3Dblack
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>Andy
Mace wrote:</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'><o:p></o:p></spa=
n></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
color=3Dblack
face=3DArial id=3D"role_document"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black'>This does raise an interesting possibility, were FoT =
members so
inclined: perhaps we could become some sort of "Special =
Chapter" or
"Affiliate" of VTR? </span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'><o:p></o:p></spa=
n></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dblack
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> <o:p></o:p=
></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
color=3Dblack
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>I take
a very 'broad church view' on issues like this, essentially summarised =
as
follows:</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'><o:p></o:p></spa=
n></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dblack
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> <o:p></o:p=
></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
color=3Dblack
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>1. It
doesn't really matter how you use your Triumph (or Standard) and because =
of
that, there should be room in your local or national club to accommodate =
your
usage preference.</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack =
face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'><o:p></o:p></spa=
n></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
color=3Dblack
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>2. The
vehicle parc is getting smaller each year and current owners are getting =
older.
This largely explains the diminution of club =
memberships</span></font><font
size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
color=3Dblack
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>3. A
surprisingly large number of cars will outlive their enthusiast =
custodians and
will need to have 'a home'</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack =
face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'><o:p></o:p></spa=
n></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
color=3Dblack
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>4.
Clubs (national or local) need to recognise this - and its my perception =
in the
UK that clubs don't adequately do this</span></font><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dblack
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'><o:p></o:p></spa=
n></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
color=3Dblack
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>5.
There will come a time when the vehicle parc and custodian base is so =
small
that clubs as they currently stand will probably not be viable as =
heretofore.
This begs the question</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack =
face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'><o:p></o:p></spa=
n></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
color=3Dblack
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>6. What
plans are national clubs making to address that inevitable =
eventuality?</span></font><font
size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
color=3Dblack
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>7.
No-one can confidently expect to substantially 'grow club membership.' =
The vast
majority of cars that will survive are already known. Barn-Finds will =
become
ever more infrequent</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack =
face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'><o:p></o:p></spa=
n></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dblack
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> <o:p></o:p=
></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
color=3Dblack
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>With
regard to point 6, my perception of the evidence as it relates to the UK =
(and
probably elsewhere too?) is "nothing at =
all." Additionally, for
as long as clubs and others continue to provide 'free' technical =
information on
"How to .....?" projects via the internet, clubs will continue =
to
diminish in size.</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack =
face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'><o:p></o:p></spa=
n></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dblack
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> <o:p></o:p=
></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
color=3Dblack
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>Rant
off</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dblack
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> <o:p></o:p=
></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
color=3Dblack
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>Jonmac</span></f=
ont><font
size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dblack
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> <o:p></o:p=
></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dblack
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> <o:p></o:p=
></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dblack
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> <o:p></o:p=
></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
</body>
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