Mark Shaw wrote:
>
> Randy Chase wrote:
> > I disagree. You can be in competition for year ending points, in which
> > case it doesn't require that you be at any event to be in competition.
>
> But somewhere along the line you should see competitors in one of the
> series events, right?
Well, yes. 8-) Good thing I was not hanging my whole debate on that one
point.
>
> > You can be in competition with your own times and personal best. You can
> > be competing for what some recognize as the first goal in racing, that
> > is "showing up".
>
> Also works for life, but seldom do you get a trophy for that...:-)
Yes and No. There is something to be said for showing up at work, for
getting out of bed, etc. Half of the battle is won when you are where
you are supposed to be. But I would not argue that autocrossing reflects
life.
>
> In a PAX indexed environment you will see people get a trophy who clearly
> would not win if ANYBODY showed up. It is true that some people will
> always win their class no matter who shows up; but it is my experience
> that these folks will not be happy to "compete" with themselves.
Not so sure. I think I do okay in CS locally and I spent all of 1998
running out of class, competing for time only. I tried to focus on
having fun, driving better, and teaching others. And I doubt someone in
our region can run in any pax class and trophy and not do well in an
individual class.
>
> Don't forget that this is partially a cost issue. If you want to give
> out great trophies to those who are serious competitors, then you need
> to gather funds from those who are don't win. Otherwise the entry fees
> have to increase so everybody gets a trophy paid by their fees and also
> cover fixed costs. Giving out more trophies for a reasonable entry fee means
> that you have to skimp on the ones you give out. THAT does affect others
> besides the person "doing their own thing."
Maybe. I see your point, but to me, I spend $20 everytime the starter
says "go". This is not a cheap sport when you add it all up. The
trophies don't cost that much (they should not) and they mean a lot,
specially if it's the first one you won, or the first time you got 1st
place, or your first Fastest Time of the Day or your first ProSolo
challenge win. I remember everyone of those and like those cheap
trophies. I try to keep in mind if I am involved in trophies, that some
driver out there is earning his/her first 1st place trophy and we should
make sure it's something he/she wants to keep. We give out lots of
trophies in our region, but I don't think it's a major part of the
budget. I think we might spend $300-400 on trophies per event? The lot
rental is far more than that.
>
> If you cannot bump locally that is your region's choice, but it is recommended
> in the rulebook.
I don't think I can run in any "faster" class, but I can see that I can
run in SP or mod if I wished. Not sure that addresses the issues. Those
classes may not reflect good competition either.
>
> If it is the best car in the class that's the driver's problem. BUT I was
> talking about the person who shows up in the worst car in the class.
Then let them have fun and learn. If they like the sport, they will
figure out that they may not have the best car for the class. I have
been there. I didn't mind. It was fun being the underdog and trying
anyway.
> By selective, I mean that we have already decided by prior decision what
> is acceptable "competition" groupings. AS long as you do challenge that
> you can do whatever you want in the name of "fun." But tamper with
> the formula and it is no longer a fun thing. Our definition of what
> is reigid and what is flexible tends to move around depending on whose
> toes get trampled.
I think I see what you are saying. I don't agree. You and I see this
formula a lot differently.
>
> > Because sometimes we need that bureaucratic BS to make sure everyone is
> > having fun. You make the leap that the BBS is a bad thing. That is
> > simplistic thinking, IMHO.
>
> Just reflecting what Rocky said. Lambast him, not me...
Rocky, consider yourself lambasted and basted...
>
> Ah... thanks for verbalizing this.....
>
> We have to be careful not to offend those who have put a lot
> of time and energy into this sport. And after how much time
> and energy does the opinion of a newcomer count....?
Not as much as someone who understood the rules, wants to compete
nationally, bought a car to do so, spent a year or more setting it up,
with the intention on running national events including the finals in
Topeka. This has nothing to do with offending someone as you put it. It
does have to do with making rule changes that affect the folks now in
the sport.
For a newcomer's time and energy to count, he or she must first put in
some time and energy. *THEN* it counts, but then, they are no longer a
newcomer.
Write me as being all in favor of rules that favor those who autocross,
not those who may want to. Those people will not do as well regardless
of the car they are driving. Unfortunately, a small percentage of those
same drivers will blame everything else but their own driving.
Randy Chase (old timer now, happy to have been in the wrong car in the
wrong class at first...just trying not to be DFL)
|