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<DIV>thanks Scott. I realized, subsequent to sending this, that I am
describing how use single stage paints, NOT clear coating over a base
coat. To each their own, I don't personally think a clear coat paint job
looks appropriate on a vintage car, but others will argue that forever.
Again, who has the best marinara sauce?</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Read this over again, and I noticed a few missed words and typos and
punctuation omissions. Sorry . . . ya get what ya pay for, I guess!
In case any poor soul is reading this for the first time, I tried to fix the
errors.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Steve</DIV>
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<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=scottewoolman@hotmail.com
href="mailto:scottewoolman@hotmail.com">Scott Woolman</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=zmagnette@autox.team.net
href="mailto:zmagnette@autox.team.net">List for the Z Magnette Group - North
America</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, December 25, 2013 9:46
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Zmagnette] Paint</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Steve </DIV>
<DIV>Thank you. great info.<BR>Scott<BR>Sent from my iPhone</DIV>
<DIV><BR>On Dec 25, 2013, at 12:03 PM, "Steve Kirby" <<A
href="mailto:skirby210@cox.net">skirby210@cox.net</A>> wrote:<BR><BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<DIV>
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<DIV>Scott--</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>You're right, you are going to get overwhelmed with opinions and ideas,
and likely, most of them will be fine. I think prepping a car for a
good paint job is a lot like being around a bunch of good cooks. They
are all going to have different ways to make the best marinara sauce, but I
betcha in the end, they will all be great.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>If you want, I once put down on paper, for a fellow Club member,
more-or-less how I've done it. But, I won't send it unless you want
it. Like you've already correctly observed, you are likely to get
overwhelmed.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>The other thing I would "warn" you against is that I've often been
around folks who insist you must use "brand X's ____________". That's
BS. There's a lot of good companies out there, and as long as you are
using compatible, QUALITY products, it (IMHO), doesn't matter a hoot which
brand you use, and to an even more controversial opinion, you can even
mix/match stages, as long as you are following the advice of someone who
knows what the heck they are doing.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Thus, my one "ABSOLUTE" bit of advice would be to get hooked up with a
quality auto body supplier in your area. Find the person who knows
their stuff, AND STICK WITH THAT PERSON. If you are like a
friend of mine who insists on shopping the best price for every little thing
he needs, including on-line, and drive to each of 358 stores in the area to
save 3 cents on a gallon of ________, then you will never build a good
relationship/rapport with a person who can tell you how to substitute
certain things for the more expensive things and save some real money, and
can answer that question of " . . . why is my surfacer coming off" and those
types of things. For an example, I do like PPG paint products, but
they are very expensive. If you believe the advice of some, then you
should use EVERYthing PPG . . . gosh, PPG abrasive paper, PPG measuring
cups, PPG funnels, PPG lacquer thinner, PPG epoxy sealer, blah, blah,
blah. You will know you are doing it right, when the CEO of PPG sends
you a bottle of 50 yr. old Scotch for your birthday.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>However, a good supplier will tell you that you can readily subsitute
other (even) less expensive PPG products for some of the prep stages.
Or gosh golly, even use a totally different brand of better surfacer, saving
about $200 per gallon. I won't bore you with the names of what I use,
'cuz I live in CA, and we have things you can't buy (and probably don't want
to buy . . . . $$$$), and you probably have access to a wider variety
of products, no doubt at a reduced price.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>In the briefest note possible, I'll throw this out there, and then
everyone else can whack it to pieces. Based on the fact you said
you're already down to mostly bare metal (Re-reading, this is far longer
than I anticipated, but I still consider it a BRIEF summary!!!! This
is a complex topic, IMHO!!!!)"</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Use a self-etching, epoxy - catalytic sealer. No need nowadays to
use a separate self-etching primer.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Do your initial repairs . . . . banging out, metal work, filling of
deepest/worse areas. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Re-apply the self-etching, epoxy - catalytic sealer in any areas where
you may have exposed bare metal. The idea is <U>never </U>to have
actual bare metal . . . at this stage. If you've only got a few, very
small bare areas, you might want to buy some self-etching sealer in a
spray can. Tis expensive, about $18 for a large spray can, but it
beats, sometimes, making up your spray gun, cleaning, etc.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Don't try and get the surface perfect yet. Use a good quality
filler, if needed, and long boards or foam boards to around 120. The
sealer you've applied thus far is really NOT "surfacer", it is not intended
for a surface finish, in fact, it is not even intended to be "sanded" at
all. Don't panic, you're no where's near done here . . . your filled
repairs are still rough, and you no doubt still have scratchs, maybe even
some very small dings.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Apply a good coat of a good quality surfacer. You get what you
pay for. Super cheap surfacer is exactly that. Do NOT buy
anything that claims to seal and surface (and cure cancer) in the same
can.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Additional filler repairs can continue. If your repair is
"almost" perfect, just needs a "wee bit" more, now you move up to what is
commonly called a "skim" product, intended to be put no more than a 1/16" or
so thick, and mostly sanded off. The beauty of these products is that
they go on much easier, and sand off so much easier. There are
different "grades" of skim products, I actually use a third, very fine one .
. . like if I see an air bubble, or a scratch. Don't fill these minor
imperfections with your "basic filler" stuff . . . .it is too thick, too
heavy, and too hard to get a fine surface when sanding. This is one of
the biggest lessons I've learned, in the fairly recent past. You might
be saying "OK, why not just use that "skim" stuff for the deep
repairs?" 'Cuz it does not have the strength of the good filler
products. Most filler products have some kind of reinforced fiberglass
in them. One brand I would recommend is MarGlass . . . for a deep
repair, where metalwork just has not totally worked. Normal depth
repairs are done with a "regular" fill product, which your supplier can
recommend. I have my favorites. You now commonly read in
magazines that the entire car was skimmed. I don't do that, but I
understand why . . . </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Continue to apply surfacer as needed. You will keep moving up the
"grit scale", to around 280 or so "dry".</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Now, buy a spray can of "Guide coat", which you apply very lightly . .
. creating a speckle/overspray kind of coat. Do not try to save $8
bucks here and use flat black spray paint. Did that once . . . not
good. Now, using around 280 or so, either a long board or long foam
piece, sand across contours, with 2 - 3 good strokes. Immediately, you
will observe the low spots. How low? A tad bit? May be
able to bring up with a heavy application of surfacer. Miss a ding or
much deeper? May need to go back to filler or skim. I'm
currently helping a Club member with his B. He had it professionally
painted. Terrible paint job. I didn't want to say anything, but
in short, no one guide coated that car. There are a dozen or so very
visible dings just on the back end of the car. Sad.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Repeat the above steps until, when you guide coat, with only 2 - 3
strokes, it is perfect. Don't get "cute" and say "Oh, I can sand that
black stuff out of there!!!!" Sure you can, but you're only cheating
yourself.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Should, at any point, you hit bare metal, hit it with self-etching,
epoxy - catalytic sealer</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Once the guide coat is perfect, now lay in a supply of perhaps 320 (I
usually skip the 320 stage), and 400 long pieces of wet-or-dry. Now,
you proceed to wet sand the car. An empty spray bottle of water is
helpful. Lots of water. When this stage is done, you go over the
car with a good, strong light . . . looking for scratches or other
imperfections. Never kid yourself that the color coat" will take care
of it, or hide it." Actually, color coat will make most imperfections
look far worse. Any problems, fix 'em now. You can buy a
"variety" pack of the various shapes of the "new" foam blocks . . . highly
recommeded.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Apply one final coat of self-etching, epoxy - catalytic sealer.
This stuff is the "new" magic. It absolutely allows your color coat to
bond. TRY to the color coat as quickly as possible to the application
of the self-etching, epoxy - catalytic sealer -- with some brands, like
within TEN minutes. Do NOT sand or abrade the self-etching, epoxy -
catalytic sealer--you do NOT want to scratch or penetrate the self-etching,
epoxy - catalytic sealer with anything like a scratch. Working alone,
I find I can't do this step "properly" (meaning that quickly), but it still
seems to work OK. The PPG rep would probably say otherwise.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>One "trick" I might throw in here, is this: With the high cost of
good paint, I will use a lesser quality paint, of the same type and color
(duh) for things like the interior (all covred over anyway), inside fender
wells, the boot, the engine bay, inside/under the boot/boonet lids,
etc. Thus, I may only need 1 gallon of the really expensive stuff, and
1 gallon of the other. A local company, which is becoming huge, and
has a huge online presence, is TCP Global. They make (I
believe made by ValSpar . . . now a much bigger player in the auto
refinishing business -- having bought out a few other companies recently)
their own brand of polyurethane paint, totally compatible with things like
PPG Concept, at about 1/4 the price. I find it easier to spray and
work with than the good stuff! I'm tempted to do an entire car with
it. We'll see . . . but I've already bought the PPG paint for the
Magnette . . . so whatever car comes up after the Magnette!!!! </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Spray the color coat . . . the easy part, actually, You've done
all the hard work above. Put on plenty of paint (at least 3 - 4
"double" coats), so you have plenty to color sand/buff.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Color Sand</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Buff</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>We'll cover those two stages later!</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Collect your First place trophy</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>You might say "Wow, that is too much work. I'll just let a shop
do it." Sure, most folks do, and you can get some great jobs out
there. What I've observed so often, is that naturally, you don't want
to spend more money than necessary, so the shop sounds good, and you go with
them. Sometimes, the results are fantastic, and sometimes they are
horrid. I've seen some great jobs at reasonable prices,
and I've also seen some dowright awful jobs, where folks paid
waaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyyyyy too much money. There are some real craftsman
out there, and there are some real hacks. If I was going to have a
shop do it, I'd insist on seeing past customer's cars. Don't just
listen to their speel. I'd make sure they list what they are going to
do, step-by-step. I'd be dropping by often to make sure they are doing
it. I want to say you are going to get what you pay for, but that
doesn't always seem to be the case. I will say this: I've been
asked to paint other people's cars. I simply can't/won't. I'm
way too slow, and make mistakes. The cost of materials, for me, far
exceeds what I see people getting their cars painted for. IF I was to
paint a Magnette, which I will be doing one of these fine milleniums, which
did not need extensive metal work, rust repair or welding, I would start at
$10,000. I know you just flipped, but I think that is realistic for a
really good paint job. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> . . . and Happy Holidays.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>#2SteveK</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=scottewoolman@hotmail.com
href="mailto:scottewoolman@hotmail.com">Scott Woolman</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=zmagnette@autox.team.net
href="mailto:zmagnette@autox.team.net">List for the Z Magnette Group -
North America</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, December 25, 2013
10:43 AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> [Zmagnette] Paint</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>At a risk of getting overwhelmed with opinions. Here is my
question. My MG is down to metal all rust and body is done. Should I
use an acrylic etching primer then a sandable primer.
<BR>Thanks<BR>Scott <BR><BR>Sent from my
iPhone<BR>_______________________________________________<BR>Zmagnette
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