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<DIV><FONT size=4>Just a short comment on Rivergate kits again..I have
experience with a 210 tranny in a Midget. Neat little installation, requires
only a couple stout smacks on the tunnel side so as to allow removal of the side
located tranny oil check plug. You could if you wanted also use a hole saw clear
through and check the level through the side from the inside of the cockpit but
don’t need to. Gear selector comes out pretty much exactly where the old one
did, and gears 1-3 are almost exactly the same as the Midget box, 4th is direct
drive 1 : 1 ratio, and 5th is ease it on down the road gear for freeway
use...especially if you have already gone to a 3.9 : 1 rear as I did. It gets
about 45 mpg in 5th overdrive at 70 MPH, at about 2300 rpm; and 1st syncro is
sure nice too. Very nice kit.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>Wombat</FONT></DIV>
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<DIV style="font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A title=bachldrs@comcast.net
href="mailto:bachldrs@comcast.net">Allen Bachelder</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, November 27, 2013 3:40 PM</DIV>
<DIV><B>To:</B> <A title=zmagnette@autox.team.net
href="mailto:zmagnette@autox.team.net">List for the Z Magnette Group - North
America</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Zmagnette] 4 synchro MGB trans in ZB</DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV></DIV>
<DIV
style='FONT-SIZE: small; TEXT-DECORATION: none; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri"; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; COLOR: #000000; FONT-STYLE: normal; DISPLAY: inline'>Mike
and Charles,
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Yeah, I can imagine that a 3.9 on a 1500 would present quite a
challenge on Lombard Hill! I guess my consideration of rear gears presumed
the 1800 was already in the picture. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I forgot to point this out but in the third picture I sent, you can see
I've moved the handbrake back about 1.5". This is not difficult at all - there's
plenty of room to take up that much slack in the cable. Also note that I
tilted the lever up a bit on it's front bracket. It clears the tower
nicely. Regarding the 200SX or 240SX transmissions, the 280Z was Rivergate's
choice and their kit will not fit the others. They liked the extreme durability
of the 280Z - as it was designed to handle the six-cylinder engine. They
do have kits designed to fit the 210 five-speed to "A block" engines. Designed
for Spridgets, I believe they also adapt well in Morris Minors. I keep my eye
out for these on occasion and have dreams of my own MM 4-door with a 1275, a
Rivergate/210 five-speed, a Spridget 3.9 diff, and Spridget discs up
front. The trick is to FiND a 210 5-speed. And for that matter, the 280Z
5-speeds are drying up also. BTW, there is some activity in the BW T5 bull
pen. We may have another option before long. Hopefully somebody who
knows more than I will speak to this.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I still hold with the opinion that the non-od MGB 4-synch would be more
trouble to install than a Hi-Gear or a Datsun and give you very little return
for your money and effort. It would be nice to capitalize on that free one
you have - except bear in mind that your freeby is the 2nd-most worthless part
on an MGB, the most worthless part on an MGB being a 3sync non-od
transmission. If you advertised to MGB guys that you were currently
accepting 4-sync non-od drop-offs, your front yard would be full by morning.
Keeping one or two and tearing them down for parts makes some sense as the
internals can be used in rebuilding od boxes. I gave away four of them
about two years ago. I have one "spare" 4-sync od box that I'll will to one of
my kids someday. The other kid will get the house and everything that's in the
bank. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Regarding shifter location, I think that problem can be solved pretty
easily - since the Rivergate/Datsun brings it's shifter up right in the MGB
4-sync opening. Ergo, if the Rivergate/Datsun shifter requires about a 2"
rearward expansion in the Magnette tunnel, the 4-sync MGB shifter would require
about the same. I'm pretty sure it would be doable. ' Wonder if anybody's tried
this with a Triumph TR6 box. After all, a Triumph has to be good for
something... ;-) ;-) ;-) </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Cheers,</DIV>
<DIV>Allen<BR>
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& Florrie Bachelder =iii=<<BR>Spring
Creek Home for Wayward MGs</I></B></DIV>
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ZB, '65 B, '69 C/GT, '73 B/GT</I></B></DIV>
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style="WORD-WRAP: break-word; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-STYLE: normal; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space"><B><I><SPAN
class=Apple-style-span
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<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>On Nov 27, 2013, at 2:22 PM, charles durning wrote:</DIV><BR
class=Apple-interchange-newline>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<DIV>Allen,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Thanks for the response. I'm not intending on using a MGB OD
transmission just the NON OD trans that came with the engine. My concern
was with the location of the shifter. I'm thinking that with a little
fabrication I can relocate the shift lever in the opening for the remote
control. I might even be able to adapt the Magnette lever there.
I'll compare the 2 when I get it out sometime in the future.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>A friend has a used Ford Sierra trans and the adaptor parts he removed
from a wrecked MGB. It's FREE. I looked it over and it looks like
the sfift lever would interfere with the parking brake lever also. It
looks like a major job to relocate the shift lever on that trans. I
would use it if I can work out relocating the shift lever. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Frankly I would be happy with a 4 speed, that's why I would consider
using the NON OD MGB 4 synchro trans that came with the engine. I could
keep the 3 synchro trans it would be easy enough to adapt to the 5 mb
engine. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>BTW I did some looking around and it looks like the trans from a Datsun
200SX or 240SX would put the shifter in the right place. <BR clear=all></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Charlie Durning</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>If you are using Google or Gmail, Big Brother is
watching.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV></DIV></DIV><BR><BR>
<DIV class=gmail_quote>On Wed, Nov 27, 2013 at 12:05 PM, Allen Bachelder <SPAN
dir=ltr><<A href="mailto:bachldrs@comcast.net"
target=_blank>bachldrs@comcast.net</A>></SPAN> wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=gmail_quote
style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid">
<DIV style="WORD-WRAP: break-word">As far as I know, the cheapest way to do
this is with the Datsun 280Z five-speed (it has a "Z" in it!) and a
Rivergate kit. I've done it on two different Magnettes. The kit
is designed for an MGB so there is a bit of fabrication necessary - but it
isn't rocket science. The bit in question is the transmission mount.
The Hi-Gear Ford Sierra kit is available from either Moss or Bruce Woodson
and I understand there is a purpose-built version for the Magnette.
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Having done the Datsun/Rivergate option, I can say that it is pretty
darn easy. The pictures show the only modifications done to the
car. Bear in mind that the PO had converted the car to the Datsun
transmission with a kit homemade by his mechanic. The second picture shows
how much material was removed from the back of the shifter opening. In
fact, this is more than necessary, but the third picture shows how I dealt
with it. I chose not to weld the new tunnel patch in case a future
owner wants to reverse the conversion. In this sense, in answer to
frequent criticism, by using a Japanese transmission, I actually preserved
more original MG than I would have with an MG transmission. Another
advantage to this approach is that the old Magnette drive shaft still fits -
requiring only that the front U-joint yoke be reamed slightly to fit the
Datsun U-joint which of course has it's own front yoke and transmission
spline. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>If I recall correctly, I used an early MGB shift-lever
boot. I did rework the flange of the shift-lever tower with a
body hammer to fit its new location. The PO didn't use a tower at all.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>One more thought. If you're undecided about the transmission
choice, first try replacing your original 4.55 differential gear set with a
4.3, a 4.1 (if you can find one), or a 3.9. This is an easy two-hour
job. You might find that even with the original gearbox, you're happy with
the higher-geared rear end. It's interesting that the two ZAs I rode in
while visiting the UK were both the earliest 4.87 rear-end types, and while
we never went on the "M roads" with them (equivalent to our interstates),
they seemed remarkably unstressed. For awhile there, I started
wondering why I had gone to all this effort. But then I get on the
I-69 here in Michigan with its 70 mph speed limit and I'm sure happy to have
my 5th gear, along with the 3.9, giving me 25 mph per 1,000 rpm.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>FWIW,</DIV>
<DIV>Allen</DIV>
<DIV>
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<DIV style="WORD-WRAP: break-word"><SPAN
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<DIV
style="WORD-WRAP: break-word; FONT-SIZE: 12px; FONT-FAMILY: helvetica; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; FONT-STYLE: normal"><B><I>Allen
& Florrie Bachelder
=iii=<<BR>Spring Creek Home for Wayward MGs</I></B></DIV>
<DIV
style="WORD-WRAP: break-word; FONT-SIZE: 12px; FONT-FAMILY: helvetica; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; FONT-STYLE: normal"><B><I>'57
ZB, '65 B, '69 C/GT, '73 B/GT</I></B></DIV>
<DIV
style="WORD-WRAP: break-word; FONT-SIZE: 12px; FONT-FAMILY: helvetica; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; FONT-STYLE: normal"><B><I>North
Street, MI 48049,
USA</I></B></DIV></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></DIV></SPAN><B><I><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12px"><A
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target=_blank>http://www.mgexperience.net/member/bachldrs</A></SPAN></I></B><SPAN
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<DIV>On Nov 27, 2013, at 12:42 AM, Steve C. wrote:</DIV><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><SPAN
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<DIV style="FONT-FAMILY: arial" bgcolor="#ffffff">As Steve K states I
installed a 4 syncro overdrive many years ago in my ZA. I would not even
consider doing so today. The 5 speed kits are so much easier to do. The
come with everything you need and require almost no modifications to the
car. To install the late over drive you need to build a rear transmission
mount, a transmission tunnel, drive shaft, speedo gear box and cable. Then
deal with the starter hitting the frame and making a clutch hydraulic
line. I also did some mods to the shift tower, but do not remember exactly
what. I think that covers it all.<BR>--<SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> </SPAN><BR>Sent from my Android phone
with<SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> </SPAN><A style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"
href="http://mail.com/" target=_blank>mail.com</A><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> </SPAN>Mail. Please excuse my
brevity.<BR><BR>
<DIV class=gmail_quote>Steve Kirby <<A style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"
href="mailto:skirby210@cox.net" target=_blank>skirby210@cox.net</A>>
wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE class=gmail_quote
style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid">
<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman">It is
not my place to answer this, and it is further not my place to offer up
this answer, but I will anyway! One of my first, of many, mentors,
in the Magnette World was Steve Carroll . . . he of thee superb header
set up many of us have purchased. Steve did put a full late B
synchro in his. I do remember Steve describing the various things
he had to do. Steve is a person of immense talents, so his pay
grade is much higher than mine. Perhaps Steve will answer, now
that I've prodded him a bit, or Charlie can contact him
directly.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><FONT size=3
face="Times New Roman"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><FONT size=3
face="Times New Roman">#2SteveK</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(0,0,0) 2px solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message -----</DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(228,228,228)"><B>From:</B><SPAN> </SPAN><A
title=LannM@aol.com href="mailto:LannM@aol.com"
target=_blank>LannM@aol.com</A></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B><SPAN> </SPAN><A
title=zmagnette@autox.team.net href="mailto:zmagnette@autox.team.net"
target=_blank>zmagnette@autox.team.net</A></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B><SPAN> </SPAN>Tuesday,
November 26, 2013 8:29 AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B><SPAN> </SPAN>Re:
[Zmagnette] 4 synchro MGB trans in ZB</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> </DIV><FONT color=#000000
face=Arial>
<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Shifter location aside, the 4 sync is
wider than the 3 sync. Compare a 3 sync MGB with a 4 sync.
The transmission tunnel is noticeably different. I've put a 4
sync in and early MGB and it takes a lot of work with a BIG hammer to
move sheet metal around. Even then, its still a tight fit.
I can't imagine a Magnette would be any easier.</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">I think Allen is right, a Hi-Gear 5 speed
would be quicker, easier, and probably cheaper.</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Lann </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> </DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">In a message dated 11/26/2013 10:19:44
A.M. Central Standard Time,<SPAN> </SPAN><A
href="mailto:durningcharles@gmail.com"
target=_blank>durningcharles@gmail.com</A><SPAN> </SPAN>writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue 2px solid"><FONT
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" color=#000000 face=Arial>
<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Robert,</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">I didn't think that even modifying the
remote would work. It would still be too far back, not to
mention the height. I was thinking about eleminating the
remote and mounting the shifter directly to the opening on the trans
where the remote attaches. I still have to get under the car
and do some measuring to see if that would be close.</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">It would be good if some BMC car used
the 4 synchro trans with a direct shifter. That would keep me
from having to make something.</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> </DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr>
<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Charlie Durning</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> </DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV class=gmail_quote style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">On Tue, Nov 26, 2013
at 1:58 AM,<SPAN> </SPAN><SPAN dir=ltr><<A
title=mailto:monster@caverock.net.nz
href="mailto:monster@caverock.net.nz"
target=_blank>monster@caverock.net.nz</A>></SPAN><SPAN> </SPAN>wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=gmail_quote
style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid"><BR><A
title="http://www.beardmorebros.co.uk/website pages/Dads_Oxford.html"
href="http://www.beardmorebros.co.uk/website%20pages/Dads_Oxford.html"
target=_blank>http://www.beardmorebros.co.<U></U>uk/website%20pages/Dads_<U></U>Oxford.html</A><BR><BR>On
the above page are some photos and a description of fitting an MGB
engine and 4-synchro+overdrive 'box to a 1960's Farina
Oxford.<BR>It includes a pic of shortening the remote gearlever
extension to fit, and a new tunnel.<BR><BR>I'd agree that the
benefits of non-OD box over all the mods needed for a 3-synchro
box might not be great.<BR>I also love the sound of the
non-synchro 1st gear. Bah, musicians, eh?
:-)<BR><BR>regards,<BR>--<SPAN> </SPAN><BR>Robert
<DIV><BR><BR>On 26.11.2013 15:50, Allen Bachelder wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=gmail_quote
style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid">Charlie,<BR>Even
without overdrive, the remote shifter on the MGB 4-sync
sits<BR>high and your going to have to substantially reshape the
transmission<BR>tunnel to make it fit. That's a ferocious price
to pay for a<BR>synchronized first gear. If you're going to that
much trouble, you<BR>might as well go
five-speed.<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR><BR></DIV></SPAN></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></DIV></DIV>
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