<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=Windows-1252">
<style type="text/css" style="display:none;"> P {margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;} </style>
</head>
<body dir="ltr">
<div style="font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
Hello All,</div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
For what it's worth, I am a pilot and my recreational aircraft is a restored 1948 Taylorcraft with the Continental C85 engine. The wing tank fuel shut off is an original solid brass valve with a leather washer on the stem that helps stop fuel seepage out of
the stem, but it is not perfect. That valve used to seep a drop here and there. My av gas is either red or blue depending on the octane. One day during my biannual check ride it seeped several drops onto the brand-new cream colored chino pants my CFI was wearing.
He was not pleased. But at least avgas evaporates along with it's dye and it did not leave a permanent stain. But to prevent a recurrence the IA who does my annual inspection disassembled the valve, replaced the leather washer on the valve stem and lapped
the valve stem and the valve body together, by hand, with Clover 400 and 800 grit valve lapping compound available at most machine shop supply houses and perhaps AutoZone, reassembled the valve and it no longer seeps even a single drop of avgas. The whole
operation took about one hour. The valve has not leaked, or even seeped a single drop since and that was last summer. </div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
Maybe that will work for some of these leaking or seeping fuel valves. There is a difference between a leak and a seep. </div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
Best of luck to all of you that have this dilemma. I have found that the solid brass valves are superior to steel valves. </div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
Randall Reihing</div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
1959 TR3A</div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
1948 Taylorcraft BC12D85</div>
<div id="appendonsend"></div>
<hr style="display:inline-block;width:98%" tabindex="-1">
<div id="divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif" style="font-size:11pt" color="#000000"><b>From:</b> Triumphs <triumphs-bounces@autox.team.net> on behalf of Kinderlehrer <kinderlehrer@comcast.net><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Sunday, May 2, 2021 6:26 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> 'Steve Kirby' <sackirby@chinaautogroup.com>; 'Brian Thomas' <thomasb@queensu.ca>; triumphs@autox.team.net <triumphs@autox.team.net><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [EXTERNAL] Re: [TR] TR2-3-4 Engine and Rad Taps</font>
<div> </div>
</div>
<style>
<!--
@font-face
{font-family:"Cambria Math"}
@font-face
{font-family:Calibri}
@font-face
{font-family:Tahoma}
@font-face
{font-family:"Comic Sans MS"}
p.x_MsoNormal, li.x_MsoNormal, div.x_MsoNormal
{margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"}
a:link, span.x_MsoHyperlink
{color:#0563C1;
text-decoration:underline}
a:visited, span.x_MsoHyperlinkFollowed
{color:#954F72;
text-decoration:underline}
p
{margin-right:0in;
margin-left:0in;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"}
p.x_MsoAcetate, li.x_MsoAcetate, div.x_MsoAcetate
{margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:8.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"}
span.x_EmailStyle17
{font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:windowtext}
span.x_EmailStyle19
{font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D}
span.x_BalloonTextChar
{font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"}
.x_MsoChpDefault
{font-size:10.0pt}
@page WordSection1
{margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in}
div.x_WordSection1
{}
-->
</style>
<div lang="EN-US" link="#0563C1" vlink="#954F72">
<div class="x_WordSection1">
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Well Steve, it solves the mystery but not the problem. What I understand from your explanation is that you manufacture a product that is not going to perform its intended purpose. There is no indication on
the Moss online catalogue that these petcocks will not function as petcocks – or that leaking is guaranteed.
</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">I’ve installed 3 of these, 2 radiators and one block, and in each case I took them apart and polished the cone and seat, none of them have leaked. If I can do it, I don’t see why the manufacturer can’t. </span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Bob</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none; border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt; padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> Steve Kirby [mailto:sackirby@chinaautogroup.com]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Sunday, May 02, 2021 2:16 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Kinderlehrer; 'Brian Thomas'; triumphs@autox.team.net<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [TR] TR2-3-4 Engine and Rad Taps</span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal">I can provide the definitive answer to this question because my company makes these aftermarket valves for Moss Motors (who probably resells them to everyone else in the world).</p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal">The response “they all leak” is absolutely correct. In fact, the problem is so pervasive and resistant to all attempts to solve the problem in manufacturing, that Moss no longer sells a functional valve. What they sell has no internal
drillings, it is just a plug. It is made to look like the original for authenticity purposes, but does not function (and hence does not leak).</p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal">If you disassemble one of these, original or repro, you will see that there are no seals. The “sealing” is accomplished by a tapered metal stem fitted into a similarly tapered metal body. The two parts are “clamped” together by virtue
of the external spring and depend totally on a very tight and concentric fit between the two metal parts. This valve was designed well before cars had pressurized cooling systems. And yes, they always leaked. But back in the day, before people started using
distilled water and high quality antifreeze with effective anti-corrosion additives, the valves quickly plugged up with corrosion and, voila, stopped leaking. When they were opened and reclosed, they leaked again, until the corrosion re-plugged them.</p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal">If you are dead set on trying to make one leakproof, get some valve lapping compound, disassemble the valve, and “lap” the two parts together for an hour or so, until the two surfaces are as smooth and concentric as possible. I have
seen this work on occasion. Basically you are perfecting the seating of the stem in the body.</p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal">If you just want to stop the valve from leaking and don’t care about the function, you can remove the valve and plug or solder the inlet port.</p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal">Jaguar used this same valve as a block mounted oil drain tap, with a bit more success due to the higher viscosity of oil vs. water. Several British motorcycle companies and Indian used this valve as a fuel shut off (and you can imagine
how that worked!).</p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal">Hope that solves the mystery.</p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><b><i><span style="color:#0070C0">Steve Kirby</span></i></b></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><b>President</b></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><b>China Auto Group</b></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal">22831 Avenida Empresa</p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal">Rancho Santa Margarita, CA 92688 USA</p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal">Direct: (949) 261-8208</p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal">Fax: (949) 767-5949</p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal">Cell: (949) 903-0957</p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal">Skype: steve.kirby29</p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><a href="https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.chinaautogroup.com%2F&data=04%7C01%7Crandall.reihing%40utoledo.edu%7C8c22894cd16a47e29d0208d90db96887%7C1d6b1707baa94a3da8f8deabfb3d467b%7C0%7C0%7C637555912535042640%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=800i3%2B6uk9I7RQ1ptgEkQ27PrlCXVHs4ths3eOV0AwQ%3D&reserved=0" originalsrc="http://www.chinaautogroup.com/" shash="nODTadjLONOEPuhP5m6Sa835q/94MTahJHPH3rqCP7PIHyNoQzyGzaUCbfBOKSBk8yr0Ver+fQLnDlhQRjuTjW5Wb0S+kBJpul21nwXWYBe1GMG68RsDMQBYShQX3YGdgk8Y747Yfw+DJNTi+MV+KzJN2q+ITdofI5GAZUk/LKk=">www.chinaautogroup.com</a></p>
</div>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<div style="border:none; border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt; padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Triumphs <<a href="mailto:triumphs-bounces@autox.team.net">triumphs-bounces@autox.team.net</a>>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Kinderlehrer<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Sunday, May 2, 2021 10:40 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> 'Brian Thomas' <<a href="mailto:thomasb@queensu.ca">thomasb@queensu.ca</a>>;
<a href="mailto:triumphs@autox.team.net">triumphs@autox.team.net</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [TR] TR2-3-4 Engine and Rad Taps</p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Hi Brian,</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Moss’s response to the leaking issue was “they all do that”. It’s been many years since I had this same issue. I solved it by taking the valve apart and polishing the parts. I don’t remember how I polished
them, maybe it was compound or 1500 grit wet/dry sandpaper. Some PTFE on the threads that go into the block or radiator also helps. Anyway, no drips since. I had to do this on 2 radiators.
</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">The other alternative is to use a “modern” petcock.</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Hope this helps,</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Bob</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none; border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt; padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> Triumphs [<a href="mailto:triumphs-bounces@autox.team.net">mailto:triumphs-bounces@autox.team.net</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Brian Thomas<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Sunday, May 02, 2021 9:11 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:triumphs@autox.team.net">triumphs@autox.team.net</a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Brad Smith (<a href="mailto:britspcars@gmail.com">britspcars@gmail.com</a>)<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [TR] TR2-3-4 Engine and Rad Taps</span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size:14.0pt; font-family:"Comic Sans MS"">Hi,</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size:14.0pt; font-family:"Comic Sans MS""> </span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size:14.0pt; font-family:"Comic Sans MS"">I’m having great difficulty getting either of the drain taps in the TR2 to stop leaking. I’ve tried various used taps from my 45+ year “collection” without any
success. The taps leak mostly out the drain hole but some also where screwed into the block/rad.</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size:14.0pt; font-family:"Comic Sans MS""> </span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size:14.0pt; font-family:"Comic Sans MS"">I recently ordered a pair of new replacements from Rimmer with high hopes but after install, both leak from the side opposite the lever – see pic. This is with
antifreeze in, rad cap off and no pressurization. I’ve asked Rimmer for comment, but they are closed until Tuesday (bank holiday Monday).</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size:14.0pt; font-family:"Comic Sans MS""> </span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size:14.0pt; font-family:"Comic Sans MS""><img border="0" width="998" height="754" id="x_Picture_x0020_26" data-outlook-trace="F:1|T:1" src="cid:image001.png@01D73F67.8B085740"></span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size:14.0pt; font-family:"Comic Sans MS""> </span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size:14.0pt; font-family:"Comic Sans MS"">The pic is shows the engine install with the spring portion “up” – that’s what it tightened to.</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size:14.0pt; font-family:"Comic Sans MS""> </span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size:14.0pt; font-family:"Comic Sans MS"">Has anyone had success with current offerings from the various vendors? I see Moss also offers them – others? TRF doesn’t currently have them.
</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size:14.0pt; font-family:"Comic Sans MS""> </span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size:14.0pt; font-family:"Comic Sans MS"">I’m about to give up and try the Don Elliot solution sealing the taps where they thread into the block/rad.</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size:14.0pt; font-family:"Comic Sans MS""> </span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size:14.0pt; font-family:"Comic Sans MS"">Appreciate any suggestions.</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size:14.0pt; font-family:"Comic Sans MS""> </span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size:14.0pt; font-family:"Comic Sans MS"">Stay well and cheers,</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size:14.0pt; font-family:"Comic Sans MS""> </span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size:14.0pt; font-family:"Comic Sans MS"">Brian</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size:14.0pt; font-family:"Comic Sans MS"; color:#C00000">_____________________________________________________</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size:14.0pt; font-family:"Comic Sans MS"; color:#0070C0">Brian Thomas
</span><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size:14.0pt; font-family:"Comic Sans MS"; color:black">E-Mail:
</span><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size:14.0pt; font-family:"Comic Sans MS"; color:#0070C0"> <a href="mailto:Brian.Thomas@QueensU.Ca"><span style="text-decoration:none">Brian.Thomas@QueensU.Ca</span></a></span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size:14.0pt; font-family:"Comic Sans MS"; color:#0070C0">92 Wyona Lane
</span><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size:14.0pt; font-family:"Comic Sans MS"; color:black">Phone:</span><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size:14.0pt; font-family:"Comic Sans MS"; color:#0070C0"> 613-385-1947</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size:14.0pt; font-family:"Comic Sans MS"; color:#0070C0">Wolfe Island, Ontario
</span><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size:14.0pt; font-family:"Comic Sans MS"; color:black">Toys:</span><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size:14.0pt; font-family:"Comic Sans MS"; color:#0070C0"> 54 TR2, 56 TR3, 67 TR4A,
</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size:14.0pt; font-family:"Comic Sans MS"; color:#0070C0">Canada K0H 2Y0 01 XKR,
</span><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size:14.0pt; font-family:"Comic Sans MS"; color:#00B050">75 John Deere 920</span><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size:14.0pt; font-family:"Comic Sans MS"; color:#0070C0"></span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA"> </span></p>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
</div>
</div>
</body>
</html>