[TR] Which FRE plate looks 'off' to you?

[Don Hiscock]

It's not so much that it's important, Jonmac -- it really isn't.  But it IS
interesting in the history of our cars.

There are numerous references to copper drive rivets being used to attach
FRE data plates to TR engines.  This thread on the TR Register forum, for
example, shows photos of several examples. There's also some discussion of
engine color, too.
https://www.tr-register.co.uk/forums/index.php?/topic/68936-engine-colour/

On Mon, Jun 19, 2023 at 2:48 PM John Macartney <johnbmacartney at gmx.com>
wrote:

> Hi, Don,
>
> That’s the plate which I think is suspect. That said, the FRE suffix
> implies factory reconditioned engine. The fact the plate is riveted also is
> cause for speculation as its location is uncomfortably close to coolant
> passages and that’s something in itself which would make Engineering very
> twitchy. The golden rule was you never drilled holes in castings unless you
> wanted to tap into a coolant or oil feed. Penetrating those internal
> drilling’s by accident was not an option.
>
> Sadly, I don’t know now what changes may have occurred that far back in
> terms of what was genuine and what was not. Those of us in the company who
> were customer facing (I was one of them and company showroom based in
> London) underwent a raft of continuous training and procedural instruction
> on so many aspects of the overall business, what was done, why, what was
> acceptable - and what wasn’t. There was a policy that those of us in the
> showroom were expected to be walking encyclopaedias on everything the
>  company did in case we ever got asked. Believe me, we got asked a lot of
> questions on a huge array of issues. I do so wish I still had all those
> training notes, production cutover changes, service recall info,
> Engineering Change Bulletins and Service Bulletins but I finally ditched
> them at the time of my divorce in 1987. I’ve lost count of the number of
> occasions since then when I deeply regret throwing them out!!!! I can’t and
> won’t argue with your photo evidence except to say I remember my mother’s
> 1954 Standard Eight saloon having a factory recon engine in 1957. The
> original unit blew out a core plug, lost all its coolant and then seized.
> That rebuilt unit was painted blue with a different number and no plate.
> That also applied to the hundreds of recon units I saw over the years - and
> that included the old side valve engines going back to the 1930s! I also
> well recall Dad was so disgusted with said engine that he took it out,
> stripped it right down and rebuilt it again to ‘as new’ production spec.
> The car was still on the road with friends who bought it, as late as 1968
> and it was still painted blue.
>
> We’re now so far down the track, I doubt there’s anyone I know who is
> still alive who can provide a definitive answer which is a pity for the
> originality fraternity, especially on your side of the pond for whom such
> detail appears to be so important:)
>
> Sorry - but cheers, John
>
> On 19 Jun 2023, at 19:16, Don Hiscock <don.hiscock at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Which photo looks wonky to you, John?
>
> The one I posted earlier, this one...
> https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-XvTTKzN/0/26f8c2fc/O/i-XvTTKzN.jpg
>
> ...belongs to OFU198, a TR3 in long ownership by Bob LeBrocq in
> Leatherhead, Surrey.
> https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-7qMKXqm/0/e16da7ed/X5/i-7qMKXqm-X5.jpg
>
> Bob tells me he repainted the engine in black when he had it out a few
> years before I took that photo in 2015.  And that he has no recollection at
> all of what color the block was before that!
>
> The engine with that plate have been in the car as long as he's had it --
> many, many decades, possibly since the early 1970s -- and he figures it was
> installed in the 1960s.  He's pretty sure it's a legit FRE unit.
>
> Whaddya think?
>
> Don
>
> On Mon, Jun 19, 2023 at 12:37 PM John Macartney <johnbmacartney at gmx.com>
> wrote:
>
>> There’s been a picture during the recent life of this thread of what
>> appears to be a factory recon unit. A few aspects make me feel it’s not a
>> genuine example though I must stress the evidence is a tad circumstantial.
>>
>> 1. The identity plate doesn’t look to be of the quality the company would
>> have approved. There’s something about it that looks a bit ‘amateur’.
>>
>> 2. As I’ve already commented in other posts, factory recon units (afaik)
>> never used the original engine number or a number that looks like it. It
>> was completely different, stamped where the original number would have
>> been, and not on a riveted plate.
>>
>> 3. There’s no evidence of the ubiquitous blue paint on the block or any
>> other part of the block within the reach of the camera lens.
>>
>> Sticking my neck out, I feel the engine we’ve seen was probably
>> reconditioned in the US or Canada, under a supply contract set up by
>> Standard’s national importer. Such a contract would allow an identity
>> implying it was a ‘genuine’ part and with a warranty that the importer and
>> the authorised dealer network would have honoured.
>>
>> Sorry and wish I could be more specific but there’s too much on the pic
>> provided that doesn’t ring true to make that engine genuinely appear to be
>> a factory original recon unit. Hopefully the foregoing May provide those
>> who are model experts for concours judging with some useful background?
>>
>> Jonmac
>> ** triumphs at autox.team.net **
>>
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>
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