From triumphstag at gmail.com  Fri Feb  3 10:31:17 2023
From: triumphstag at gmail.com (Sujit Roy)
Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2023 09:31:17 -0800
Subject: [TR] difference between these two washers
Message-ID: <CANLCLaH_iWQRPTpFjMSBngqjDKyDSd8Nu7SC98H+T6RvcVH4kw@mail.gmail.com>

Besides, looks, what are the differences between these washers? Why use one
compared to the other? I typically see the left one used for lighter loads,
but never under a load which needs torquing up.
Sujit

[image: washers.jpg]





-- 
Sujit Roy
Cupertino, California

https://triumphstagblog.wordpress.com/
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From auprichard at uprichard.net  Fri Feb  3 12:53:09 2023
From: auprichard at uprichard.net (auprichard uprichard.net)
Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2023 19:53:09 +0000
Subject: [TR] difference between these two washers
In-Reply-To: <CANLCLaH_iWQRPTpFjMSBngqjDKyDSd8Nu7SC98H+T6RvcVH4kw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANLCLaH_iWQRPTpFjMSBngqjDKyDSd8Nu7SC98H+T6RvcVH4kw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <DS7PR07MB7655A1A877DA92926FE842BFCAD79@DS7PR07MB7655.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>

Looking forward to seeing answers.  In the meantime, I use the ones on the left under ground connections as they tend to bite into the metal.

Andrew Uprichard
Jackson, Michigan

From: Triumphs <triumphs-bounces at autox.team.net> On Behalf Of Sujit Roy
Sent: Friday, February 3, 2023 12:31 PM
To: Triumphs <triumphs at autox.team.net>
Subject: [TR] difference between these two washers

Besides, looks, what are the differences between these washers? Why use one compared to the other? I typically see the left one used for lighter loads, but never under a load which needs torquing up.
Sujit

[cid:image001.jpg at 01D937DF.3ABF71C0]





--
Sujit Roy
Cupertino, California

https://triumphstagblog.wordpress.com/
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From dave at mdmackay.ca  Fri Feb  3 13:13:22 2023
From: dave at mdmackay.ca (Dave MacKay)
Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2023 15:13:22 -0500
Subject: [TR] difference between these two washers
Message-ID: <e517895cd0102627b9657f64d8356f01@mail.gmail.com>

>Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2023 09:31:17 -0800

>From: Sujit Roy <triumphstag at gmail.com>

>To: Triumphs <triumphs at autox.team.net>

>Subject: [TR] difference between these two washers

>

>Besides, looks, what are the differences between these washers? Why use
one compared to the other? I typically see the left one used for lighter
loads, but never under a load which needs torquing up.

>Sujit

>

>Sujit Roy

>Cupertino, California

>URL: <
http://autox.team.net/pipermail/triumphs/attachments/20230203/1f2337ba/attachment-0001.jpg
>



On pp 116-117 of Carroll Shelby?s *Nuts, Bolts, Fasteners and Plumbing
Handbook*, Shelby discusses the lock washers including star washers (like
the one on the left of the image) and spring lock washers (like the one on
the right of the image).



?Lock washers



There are a great many locking devices on the market today. The most
popular is also the least effective --- the lock washer. There are three
basic types of lock washers: the spring washer, the wave washer and the
serrated, or star, washer.



Nether the spring washer nor the wave washer do anything worth talking
about --- other than to provide the user with a false sense of security.
Think about it for a moment. From experience, you know that it takes very
little load to compress a spring washer. For example, the spring washer
will be completely closed long before we reach recommended torque when
tightening a bolt. Once compressed, the spring washer is nothing but a flat
washer. If, for whatever reason, a bolt should loosen to the point where
the spring washer opens enough to become a spring, there was too little
residual stress in the assembled bolt for any sort of safety. In other
words, the thing wasn?t tightened sufficiently. Exactly the same is true of
the wave washer which is, for some reason or other, popular in Germany. If
you decide to use a spring lock washer, a flat washer should be placed
between the lock washer and the work surface to prevent damage to the
surface. This in not necessary with the wave washer.



I am willing to admit that there are installations where the serrated or
star washer can be effective . These installations are limited to the
smaller sizes and almost always have to do with machine screws bearing on a
rather soft surface --- aluminum or plastic, for example. The teeth of the
washer can and do bite into the surfaces of soft materials and offer
reasonably positive protection against rotation. They are available with
either internal or external teeth, and also as coned washers for
countersunk bolts.



I try not to use lock washers. I use prevailing torque-type self-locking
nuts on all through holes and check or jam nuts to lock rod end bearings
and threaded adjusters. With blind holes, if I do not trust the thread
portion of a properly tightened bolt, I use the appropriate grade of
Loctite and/or safety wire. I do, however, carry a selection of aircraft
spec (AN-935) spring lock washers [similar to the one on the right of the
image] around with me --- just in case. I will not use industrial [rather
than aircraft-grade] spring lock washers because they are liable to be too
brittle for my taste.?



Dave MacKay

1960 TR3A (s/n 68639L)

Near Toronto, Canada
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From yellowtr3 at yahoo.com  Fri Feb  3 13:42:39 2023
From: yellowtr3 at yahoo.com (Frank Fisher)
Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2023 20:42:39 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [TR] difference between these two washers
In-Reply-To: <DS7PR07MB7655A1A877DA92926FE842BFCAD79@DS7PR07MB7655.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>
References: <CANLCLaH_iWQRPTpFjMSBngqjDKyDSd8Nu7SC98H+T6RvcVH4kw@mail.gmail.com>
 <DS7PR07MB7655A1A877DA92926FE842BFCAD79@DS7PR07MB7655.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <2031493179.2155572.1675456959508@mail.yahoo.com>

 what Roy said.


    On Friday, February 3, 2023 at 12:26:17 PM PST, auprichard uprichard.net <auprichard at uprichard.net> wrote:  
 
 
Looking forward to seeing answers.? In the meantime, I use the ones on the left under ground connections as they tend to bite into the metal.
 
 ?
 
Andrew Uprichard
 
Jackson, Michigan
 
 ?
 
From: Triumphs <triumphs-bounces at autox.team.net> On Behalf OfSujit Roy
Sent: Friday, February 3, 2023 12:31 PM
To: Triumphs <triumphs at autox.team.net>
Subject: [TR] difference between these two washers
 
 ?
 
Besides, looks, what are the differences?between?these washers? Why use one compared to the other? I typically?see the left one used for lighter loads, but never under a load which?needs torquing up.
 
Sujit
 
 ?
 

 
 ?
 
 ?
 
 ?
 


 
 ?
 
-- 
 
Sujit Roy
Cupertino, California
 

https://triumphstagblog.wordpress.com/
 ** triumphs at autox.team.net **

Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs  http://www.team.net/archive

Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/yellowtr3 at yahoo.com
  
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From don.hiscock at gmail.com  Fri Feb  3 18:46:26 2023
From: don.hiscock at gmail.com (Don Hiscock)
Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2023 19:46:26 -0600
Subject: [TR] difference between these two washers
In-Reply-To: <e517895cd0102627b9657f64d8356f01@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e517895cd0102627b9657f64d8356f01@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPK7CFCiX_La=+se_HkiSNsfz0BntAoBuWZwMkWMq0tN0-Fsng@mail.gmail.com>

Carroll Smith, perhaps?  :)

(He did indeed work with Caroll Shelby, though.)

On Fri, Feb 3, 2023 at 3:04 PM Dave MacKay <dave at mdmackay.ca> wrote:

> >Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2023 09:31:17 -0800
>
> >From: Sujit Roy <triumphstag at gmail.com>
>
> >To: Triumphs <triumphs at autox.team.net>
>
> >Subject: [TR] difference between these two washers
>
> >
>
> >Besides, looks, what are the differences between these washers? Why use
> one compared to the other? I typically see the left one used for lighter
> loads, but never under a load which needs torquing up.
>
> >Sujit
>
> >
>
> >Sujit Roy
>
> >Cupertino, California
>
> >URL: <
> http://autox.team.net/pipermail/triumphs/attachments/20230203/1f2337ba/attachment-0001.jpg
> >
>
>
>
> On pp 116-117 of Carroll Shelby?s *Nuts, Bolts, Fasteners and Plumbing
> Handbook*, Shelby discusses the lock washers including star washers (like
> the one on the left of the image) and spring lock washers (like the one on
> the right of the image).
>
>
>
> ?Lock washers
>
>
>
> There are a great many locking devices on the market today. The most
> popular is also the least effective --- the lock washer. There are three
> basic types of lock washers: the spring washer, the wave washer and the
> serrated, or star, washer.
>
>
>
> Nether the spring washer nor the wave washer do anything worth talking
> about --- other than to provide the user with a false sense of security.
> Think about it for a moment. From experience, you know that it takes very
> little load to compress a spring washer. For example, the spring washer
> will be completely closed long before we reach recommended torque when
> tightening a bolt. Once compressed, the spring washer is nothing but a flat
> washer. If, for whatever reason, a bolt should loosen to the point where
> the spring washer opens enough to become a spring, there was too little
> residual stress in the assembled bolt for any sort of safety. In other
> words, the thing wasn?t tightened sufficiently. Exactly the same is true of
> the wave washer which is, for some reason or other, popular in Germany. If
> you decide to use a spring lock washer, a flat washer should be placed
> between the lock washer and the work surface to prevent damage to the
> surface. This in not necessary with the wave washer.
>
>
>
> I am willing to admit that there are installations where the serrated or
> star washer can be effective . These installations are limited to the
> smaller sizes and almost always have to do with machine screws bearing on a
> rather soft surface --- aluminum or plastic, for example. The teeth of the
> washer can and do bite into the surfaces of soft materials and offer
> reasonably positive protection against rotation. They are available with
> either internal or external teeth, and also as coned washers for
> countersunk bolts.
>
>
>
> I try not to use lock washers. I use prevailing torque-type self-locking
> nuts on all through holes and check or jam nuts to lock rod end bearings
> and threaded adjusters. With blind holes, if I do not trust the thread
> portion of a properly tightened bolt, I use the appropriate grade of
> Loctite and/or safety wire. I do, however, carry a selection of aircraft
> spec (AN-935) spring lock washers [similar to the one on the right of the
> image] around with me --- just in case. I will not use industrial [rather
> than aircraft-grade] spring lock washers because they are liable to be too
> brittle for my taste.?
>
>
>
> Dave MacKay
>
> 1960 TR3A (s/n 68639L)
>
> Near Toronto, Canada
>
>
> ** triumphs at autox.team.net **
>
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs
> http://www.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/don.hiscock at gmail.com
>
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From dave at mdmackay.ca  Fri Feb  3 19:02:15 2023
From: dave at mdmackay.ca (Dave MacKay)
Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2023 21:02:15 -0500
Subject: [TR] difference between these two washers
In-Reply-To: <CAPK7CFCiX_La=+se_HkiSNsfz0BntAoBuWZwMkWMq0tN0-Fsng@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e517895cd0102627b9657f64d8356f01@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPK7CFCiX_La=+se_HkiSNsfz0BntAoBuWZwMkWMq0tN0-Fsng@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <bc7b397f50045242c105a8c468968a35@mail.gmail.com>

*>From:* Don Hiscock <don.hiscock at gmail.com>
*>Subject:* Re: [TR] difference between these two washers

>

>Carroll Smith, perhaps?  :)

>

>(He did indeed work with Caroll Shelby, though.)



You?re absolutely right! And I even had the book in my mind. See ?Smith?,
read ?Smith?, write ?Shelby?. Ha Ha.



It?s a wonder I didn?t mis-attribute it to Carroll O?Connor ?
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From fishplate at gmail.com  Sat Feb  4 09:04:11 2023
From: fishplate at gmail.com (Jeff Scarbrough)
Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2023 11:04:11 -0500
Subject: [TR] difference between these two washers
In-Reply-To: <CANLCLaH_iWQRPTpFjMSBngqjDKyDSd8Nu7SC98H+T6RvcVH4kw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANLCLaH_iWQRPTpFjMSBngqjDKyDSd8Nu7SC98H+T6RvcVH4kw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAO8Q7CMK6TUzzLWGcaHdSDF3otZnXxGx2-Bmrpc=q=FM2ihkFA@mail.gmail.com>

Interesting question.  I found this answer which might be useful.

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/different-types-spring-locking-washers-ryan-zhang

-- Jeff

On Fri, Feb 3, 2023 at 1:21 PM Sujit Roy <triumphstag at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Besides, looks, what are the differences between these washers? Why use one compared to the other? I typically see the left one used for lighter loads, but never under a load which needs torquing up.
> Sujit
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Sujit Roy
> Cupertino, California
>
> https://triumphstagblog.wordpress.com/
>
> ** triumphs at autox.team.net **
>
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs  http://www.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/fishplate at gmail.com

From fishplate at gmail.com  Sat Feb  4 09:06:04 2023
From: fishplate at gmail.com (Jeff Scarbrough)
Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2023 11:06:04 -0500
Subject: [TR] difference between these two washers
In-Reply-To: <CAO8Q7CMK6TUzzLWGcaHdSDF3otZnXxGx2-Bmrpc=q=FM2ihkFA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANLCLaH_iWQRPTpFjMSBngqjDKyDSd8Nu7SC98H+T6RvcVH4kw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAO8Q7CMK6TUzzLWGcaHdSDF3otZnXxGx2-Bmrpc=q=FM2ihkFA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAO8Q7CN3389SDj0xrbLgqui6vN99jdXGzSVXCNMnPgHdhyCs6Q@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Feb 4, 2023 at 11:04 AM Jeff Scarbrough <fishplate at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Interesting question.  I found this answer which might be useful.
>
> https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/different-types-spring-locking-washers-ryan-zhang
>
> -- Jeff

I also found these interesting alternatives:

https://shop4fasteners.co.uk/fasteners/washers/locking-washers/schnorr-washers/schnorr-safety-lock-washers-type-s-self-colour.html

https://shop4fasteners.co.uk/fasteners/washers/locking-washers/nord-lock-washers/nord-lock-wedge-locking-washers-steel.html

I don't think I've ever seen these before.

From dave at ranteer.com  Sat Feb  4 11:12:09 2023
From: dave at ranteer.com (dave northrup)
Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2023 18:12:09 +0000
Subject: [TR] TR6 vs 240 Z
Message-ID: <caa787cd2a944b2895a99f29d30bb298@ranteer.com>

Or, as they would say in England, TR6 vs 240 Zed

Fun article

https://www.classicandsportscar.com/features/datsun-240z-vs-triumph-tr6-battle-america?utm_source=sfmc&utm_term=StoryImageTwo&utm_content=17115&utm_id=e9c3ec75-bab4-4bdf-b31f-3626fa20d1e3&sfmc_id=36122111&sfmc_activityid=100153f9-7a43-49c8-bb22-d4036a4de400&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=newsletter_04_02_2023


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From johnbmacartney at gmx.com  Sun Feb  5 03:37:35 2023
From: johnbmacartney at gmx.com (John Macartney)
Date: Sun, 5 Feb 2023 10:37:35 +0000
Subject: [TR] (no subject)
Message-ID: <657A650F-5E1C-49F0-BB90-7CC5E7F06321@gmx.com>

Indeed, we do call it the 240 Zed in conformist circles.

However, within the UK and the classic car environment as a whole, you?ll usually find the big Datsun is referred to as the 24 oz meaning 24 ounce. Same goes for its successor, the 26 ounce. Neither car sold that well in Europe as a whole in its day.

Jonmac

Sent from a piece of electronic papyrus I found in King Tut?s tomb

> On 4 Feb 2023, at 19:00, triumphs-request at autox.team.net wrote:
> 
> Send Triumphs mailing list submissions to
>    triumphs at autox.team.net
> 
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
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> 
> You can reach the person managing the list at
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> 
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Triumphs digest..."
> Today's Topics:
> 
>   1. Re: difference between these two washers
>      (auprichard uprichard.net)
>   2. Re: difference between these two washers (Dave MacKay)
>   3. Re: difference between these two washers (Frank Fisher)
>   4. Re: difference between these two washers (Don Hiscock)
>   5. Re: difference between these two washers (Dave MacKay)
>   6. Re: difference between these two washers (Jeff Scarbrough)
>   7. Re: difference between these two washers (Jeff Scarbrough)
>   8. TR6 vs 240 Z (dave northrup)
> <mime-attachment>
> <mime-attachment>
> <mime-attachment>
> <mime-attachment>
> <mime-attachment>
> <mime-attachment>
> <mime-attachment>
> <mime-attachment>
> _______________________________________________
> 
> Triumphs mailing list
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> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs


From yellowtr at adelphia.net  Sun Feb  5 07:44:39 2023
From: yellowtr at adelphia.net (Bob)
Date: Sun, 5 Feb 2023 09:44:39 -0500
Subject: [TR] TR6 vs 240 Z
In-Reply-To: <caa787cd2a944b2895a99f29d30bb298@ranteer.com>
References: <caa787cd2a944b2895a99f29d30bb298@ranteer.com>
Message-ID: <ad6e11c7-20f1-d027-7c14-ead917110aa5@adelphia.net>

Both the TR6 and the 240Z suffered from rust in the NE with roads 
covered with sand and salt. My 72 6 was a perfect example. I spent a ton 
of time cutting and welding/brazing both the body and the frame. But in 
the end it was more solid than its original. And thanks to Ted with his 
frame strengthening kit.? The Z however was uni-body. A good friend had 
one and it basically fell apart in the early 80's. He took it to a frame 
shop and they couldnt do a thing with it. And there is no way to restore 
it. At least on the 6, if the frame was shot, you could to to a junk 
yard and pick up one in decent shape, same with the fenders/ doors etc.

I do see one Z at car shows but I am sure it is not a NE car. I do see 
quite a few 6's though. One thing that the Z had better on the engine 
were the carbs. A SU clone made by Hitachi. I fitted? a pair on my 72 as 
I was not a fan of the ZS. They have been trouble free for over 15 years.

Bob

On 2/4/23 1:12 PM, dave northrup wrote:
>
> Or, as they would say in England, TR6 vs 240 Zed
>
> Fun article
>
> https://www.classicandsportscar.com/features/datsun-240z-vs-triumph-tr6-battle-america?utm_source=sfmc&utm_term=StoryImageTwo&utm_content=17115&utm_id=e9c3ec75-bab4-4bdf-b31f-3626fa20d1e3&sfmc_id=36122111&sfmc_activityid=100153f9-7a43-49c8-bb22-d4036a4de400&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=newsletter_04_02_2023
>
>
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From dave1massey at cs.com  Sun Feb  5 08:23:30 2023
From: dave1massey at cs.com (DAVID MASSEY)
Date: Sun, 5 Feb 2023 15:23:30 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [TR] difference between these two washers
In-Reply-To: <CAO8Q7CN3389SDj0xrbLgqui6vN99jdXGzSVXCNMnPgHdhyCs6Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANLCLaH_iWQRPTpFjMSBngqjDKyDSd8Nu7SC98H+T6RvcVH4kw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAO8Q7CMK6TUzzLWGcaHdSDF3otZnXxGx2-Bmrpc=q=FM2ihkFA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAO8Q7CN3389SDj0xrbLgqui6vN99jdXGzSVXCNMnPgHdhyCs6Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1023322911.470449.1675610610661@mail.yahoo.com>

 I never considered a Belleville washer or a wavy washer as a locking device.? I consider them an anti-rattle device that, when used with a locking nut (either nylon or other) will allow for expansion/contraction or other compliance axially and will act against float.? EG alternator pivot bolts.
Split washers are good for general purpose applications where no torque spec is provided.? If a torque spec is given do not use a lock washer!? And don't use a hardware store variety flat washer either!
 
Dave 


 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff Scarbrough <fishplate at gmail.com>
Cc: Triumphs <triumphs at autox.team.net>
Sent: Sat, Feb 4, 2023 10:06 am
Subject: Re: [TR] difference between these two washers

On Sat, Feb 4, 2023 at 11:04 AM Jeff Scarbrough <fishplate at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Interesting question.? I found this answer which might be useful.
>
> https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/different-types-spring-locking-washers-ryan-zhang
>
> -- Jeff

I also found these interesting alternatives:

https://shop4fasteners.co.uk/fasteners/washers/locking-washers/schnorr-washers/schnorr-safety-lock-washers-type-s-self-colour.html

https://shop4fasteners.co.uk/fasteners/washers/locking-washers/nord-lock-washers/nord-lock-wedge-locking-washers-steel.html

I don't think I've ever seen these before.
** triumphs at autox.team.net **

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From dave1massey at cs.com  Sun Feb  5 08:53:12 2023
From: dave1massey at cs.com (DAVID MASSEY)
Date: Sun, 5 Feb 2023 15:53:12 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [TR] TR6 vs 240 Z
In-Reply-To: <caa787cd2a944b2895a99f29d30bb298@ranteer.com>
References: <caa787cd2a944b2895a99f29d30bb298@ranteer.com>
Message-ID: <452520165.472323.1675612392663@mail.yahoo.com>

 Fun indeed.? For the writer.? He drove one example of each and made sweeping generalizations.? I take exception about how difficult the TR6 is to start.? Mine leaps to life and the slightest hint of starter engagement.? This is the case when the carbs are set properly.? Apparently his car had some hack fiddle with the carbs.? Or it was that old mechanical PI.? (Did PI cars have a choke?)

He didn't mention that the Datsun I-6 was a near exact copy of the Mercedes-Benz six cylinder engine.
But the real unmentioned advantage Japan had was the exchange rate.? North sea oil made the British Pound quite strong making exporting to the US difficult indeed.
 
Dave 


 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: dave northrup <dave at ranteer.com>
To: triumphs at autox.team.net <triumphs at autox.team.net>
Sent: Sat, Feb 4, 2023 12:12 pm
Subject: [TR] TR6 vs 240 Z

 <!--#yiv9699482108 filtered {}#yiv9699482108 filtered {}#yiv9699482108 p.yiv9699482108MsoNormal, #yiv9699482108 li.yiv9699482108MsoNormal, #yiv9699482108 div.yiv9699482108MsoNormal {margin:0in;font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri", sans-serif;}#yiv9699482108 a:link, #yiv9699482108 span.yiv9699482108MsoHyperlink {color:#0563C1;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv9699482108 span.yiv9699482108EmailStyle17 {font-family:"Calibri", sans-serif;color:windowtext;}#yiv9699482108 .yiv9699482108MsoChpDefault {font-family:"Calibri", sans-serif;}#yiv9699482108 filtered {}#yiv9699482108 div.yiv9699482108WordSection1 {}-->Or, as they would say in England, TR6 vs 240 Zed  ? Fun article  ? https://www.classicandsportscar.com/features/datsun-240z-vs-triumph-tr6-battle-america?utm_source=sfmc&utm_term=StoryImageTwo&utm_content=17115&utm_id=e9c3ec75-bab4-4bdf-b31f-3626fa20d1e3&sfmc_id=36122111&sfmc_activityid=100153f9-7a43-49c8-bb22-d4036a4de400&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=newsletter_04_02_2023  ?  ? ** triumphs at autox.team.net **

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From grglmn at gmail.com  Sun Feb  5 09:39:09 2023
From: grglmn at gmail.com (Greg Lemon)
Date: Sun, 5 Feb 2023 10:39:09 -0600
Subject: [TR] TR6 vs 240 Z
In-Reply-To: <caa787cd2a944b2895a99f29d30bb298@ranteer.com>
References: <caa787cd2a944b2895a99f29d30bb298@ranteer.com>
Message-ID: <CAFtw3aaUs1D2wn8HCO+LRsRuC-XKZFy7LEcjM9xb1_bx=4Vs0Q@mail.gmail.com>

A fun read, but given that the TR6 was modified with fuel injection I am
wondering if it had suspension mods as well.  They describe the TR6 as
being this frenetic rip-roaring sports car, which is not how I would
describe a stock TR6 at all, maybe coming from a 70s Buick or whatever, but
compared to other small 60s and early 70s two seaters I think the TR6 was a
pretty soft and smooth.

Also they gave some production figures for early Datsun sales, but not any
sales figures for the cars they were comparing.

>From 1970 to 1973 they sold about 150,000 Z's in the US, with a peak year
of over 50,000 in 72.  They sold about 77,000 TR6s from '69 to 76.  So the
Z outsold the TR6 pretty handily, you are looking at about 10,000 TR6s a
year sold in the United States in average, I know more detailed numbers are
available, but didn't dig that far.  Despite being described as long in
tooth and antiquated by contemporary magazines, the TR6 outsold the earlier
TRs, both overall and in the US.

Prices:

1968 (TR250) $3175.
1969 (TR6) $3275
1970 $3375.                           (240z) $3526
1971 $3595
1972 $3723
1973 $4095
1974 $4695.                          (240z)  $4695
1975 $5295
1976 $6095

So they were direct competitors on price.

Greg Lemon TR250

On Sat, Feb 4, 2023, 12:43 PM dave northrup <dave at ranteer.com> wrote:

> Or, as they would say in England, TR6 vs 240 Zed
>
>
>
> Fun article
>
>
>
>
> https://www.classicandsportscar.com/features/datsun-240z-vs-triumph-tr6-battle-america?utm_source=sfmc&utm_term=StoryImageTwo&utm_content=17115&utm_id=e9c3ec75-bab4-4bdf-b31f-3626fa20d1e3&sfmc_id=36122111&sfmc_activityid=100153f9-7a43-49c8-bb22-d4036a4de400&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=newsletter_04_02_2023
>
>
>
>
> ** triumphs at autox.team.net **
>
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs
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From don.hiscock at gmail.com  Sun Feb  5 18:46:42 2023
From: don.hiscock at gmail.com (Don Hiscock)
Date: Sun, 5 Feb 2023 19:46:42 -0600
Subject: [TR] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <657A650F-5E1C-49F0-BB90-7CC5E7F06321@gmx.com>
References: <657A650F-5E1C-49F0-BB90-7CC5E7F06321@gmx.com>
Message-ID: <CAPK7CFC3DfZ8FmanAuyiksiG4pAysu5UhUpsO77JdcvEgootKQ@mail.gmail.com>

I'd never heard the 24 oz nickname, John.  That's pretty funny, and I'll
never look at a 240Z the same.

There was a time when Toyota had the MR2 in production that some folks
referred to it as the "Mister Two", and I've not been able to forget that
one either.

On Sun, Feb 5, 2023 at 4:49 AM John Macartney <johnbmacartney at gmx.com>
wrote:

> Indeed, we do call it the 240 Zed in conformist circles.
>
> However, within the UK and the classic car environment as a whole, you?ll
> usually find the big Datsun is referred to as the 24 oz meaning 24 ounce.
> Same goes for its successor, the 26 ounce. Neither car sold that well in
> Europe as a whole in its day.
>
> Jonmac
>
> Sent from a piece of electronic papyrus I found in King Tut?s tomb
>
> > On 4 Feb 2023, at 19:00, triumphs-request at autox.team.net wrote:
> >
> > Send Triumphs mailing list submissions to
> >    triumphs at autox.team.net
> >
> > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> >    http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs
> > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> >    triumphs-request at autox.team.net
> >
> > You can reach the person managing the list at
> >    triumphs-owner at autox.team.net
> >
> > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> > than "Re: Contents of Triumphs digest..."
> > Today's Topics:
> >
> >   1. Re: difference between these two washers
> >      (auprichard uprichard.net)
> >   2. Re: difference between these two washers (Dave MacKay)
> >   3. Re: difference between these two washers (Frank Fisher)
> >   4. Re: difference between these two washers (Don Hiscock)
> >   5. Re: difference between these two washers (Dave MacKay)
> >   6. Re: difference between these two washers (Jeff Scarbrough)
> >   7. Re: difference between these two washers (Jeff Scarbrough)
> >   8. TR6 vs 240 Z (dave northrup)
> > <mime-attachment>
> > <mime-attachment>
> > <mime-attachment>
> > <mime-attachment>
> > <mime-attachment>
> > <mime-attachment>
> > <mime-attachment>
> > <mime-attachment>
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> > Triumphs mailing list
> > Triumphs at autox.team.net
> > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs
>
> ** triumphs at autox.team.net **
>
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs
> http://www.team.net/archive
>
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From aljlthomson at charter.net  Sun Feb  5 18:53:43 2023
From: aljlthomson at charter.net (Alex & Janet Thomson)
Date: Sun, 5 Feb 2023 20:53:43 -0500
Subject: [TR] [6pack]  TR6 vs 240 Z
In-Reply-To: <ad6e11c7-20f1-d027-7c14-ead917110aa5@adelphia.net>
References: <caa787cd2a944b2895a99f29d30bb298@ranteer.com>
 <ad6e11c7-20f1-d027-7c14-ead917110aa5@adelphia.net>
Message-ID: <000601d939cd$d8bbb740$8a3325c0$@charter.net>

And, if you can't find a good used frame, there is always the option of a
new, Ratco frame. All it takes is a MasterCard! That is definitely an
advantage of an "old technology" frame/body car.

 

Alex Thomson

 

From: 6pack [mailto:6pack-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Bob
Sent: Sunday, February 05, 2023 9:45 AM
To: triumphs at autox.team.net; six pack
Subject: Re: [6pack] [TR] TR6 vs 240 Z

 

Both the TR6 and the 240Z suffered from rust in the NE with roads covered
with sand and salt. My 72 6 was a perfect example. I spent a ton of time
cutting and welding/brazing both the body and the frame. But in the end it
was more solid than its original. And thanks to Ted with his frame
strengthening kit.  The Z however was uni-body. A good friend had one and it
basically fell apart in the early 80's. He took it to a frame shop and they
couldnt do a thing with it. And there is no way to restore it. At least on
the 6, if the frame was shot, you could to to a junk yard and pick up one in
decent shape, same with the fenders/ doors etc. 

I do see one Z at car shows but I am sure it is not a NE car. I do see quite
a few 6's though. One thing that the Z had better on the engine were the
carbs. A SU clone made by Hitachi. I fitted  a pair on my 72 as I was not a
fan of the ZS. They have been trouble free for over 15 years. 

Bob

On 2/4/23 1:12 PM, dave northrup wrote:

Or, as they would say in England, TR6 vs 240 Zed

 

Fun article

 

https://www.classicandsportscar.com/features/datsun-240z-vs-triumph-tr6-batt
le-america?utm_source=sfmc
<https://www.classicandsportscar.com/features/datsun-240z-vs-triumph-tr6-bat
tle-america?utm_source=sfmc&utm_term=StoryImageTwo&utm_content=17115&utm_id=
e9c3ec75-bab4-4bdf-b31f-3626fa20d1e3&sfmc_id=36122111&sfmc_activityid=100153
f9-7a43-49c8-bb22-d4036a4de400&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=newsletter_04_0
2_2023>
&utm_term=StoryImageTwo&utm_content=17115&utm_id=e9c3ec75-bab4-4bdf-b31f-362
6fa20d1e3&sfmc_id=36122111&sfmc_activityid=100153f9-7a43-49c8-bb22-d4036a4de
400&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=newsletter_04_02_2023

 

 

 

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From rrochlin at comcast.net  Mon Feb  6 04:23:37 2023
From: rrochlin at comcast.net (Robert Rochlin)
Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2023 07:23:37 -0400
Subject: [TR] [6pack]  TR6 vs 240 Z
In-Reply-To: <000601d939cd$d8bbb740$8a3325c0$@charter.net>
References: <caa787cd2a944b2895a99f29d30bb298@ranteer.com>
 <ad6e11c7-20f1-d027-7c14-ead917110aa5@adelphia.net>
 <000601d939cd$d8bbb740$8a3325c0$@charter.net>
Message-ID: <A44B6742-20AE-4F67-8543-F5759C3B50DD@comcast.net>

   Back in the early 70?s I had two successive 240 Z cars.  The first one was a 1972 before emissions equipment, it went like hell and was dependable and durable.  I drove that one until the body was so compromised from New England winters that I had to give it up. I made the mistake of then buying a 1974 TR6 with emission controls. It was a dog comprehend to the 1972.  As it happens, I have a brochure reprint of a head to head comparison of the TR6 and the 240 Z originally done by Road and Track.  The advantage went to the 240 Z when speed picked up and aerodynamics came into play. I?m away now, but when I get home I?ll make a PDF of the brochure and post it to the list.
	Best,
	Bob

> On Feb 5, 2023, at 9:53 PM, Alex & Janet Thomson <aljlthomson at charter.net> wrote:
> 
> And, if you can?t find a good used frame, there is always the option of a new, Ratco frame. All it takes is a MasterCard! That is definitely an advantage of an ?old technology? frame/body car.
>  
> Alex Thomson
>  
> From: 6pack [mailto:6pack-bounces at autox.team.net <mailto:6pack-bounces at autox.team.net>] On Behalf Of Bob
> Sent: Sunday, February 05, 2023 9:45 AM
> To: triumphs at autox.team.net <mailto:triumphs at autox.team.net>; six pack
> Subject: Re: [6pack] [TR] TR6 vs 240 Z
>  
> Both the TR6 and the 240Z suffered from rust in the NE with roads covered with sand and salt. My 72 6 was a perfect example. I spent a ton of time cutting and welding/brazing both the body and the frame. But in the end it was more solid than its original. And thanks to Ted with his frame strengthening kit.  The Z however was uni-body. A good friend had one and it basically fell apart in the early 80's. He took it to a frame shop and they couldnt do a thing with it. And there is no way to restore it. At least on the 6, if the frame was shot, you could to to a junk yard and pick up one in decent shape, same with the fenders/ doors etc. 
> 
> I do see one Z at car shows but I am sure it is not a NE car. I do see quite a few 6's though. One thing that the Z had better on the engine were the carbs. A SU clone made by Hitachi. I fitted  a pair on my 72 as I was not a fan of the ZS. They have been trouble free for over 15 years. 
> 
> Bob
> 
> On 2/4/23 1:12 PM, dave northrup wrote:
>> Or, as they would say in England, TR6 vs 240 Zed
>>  
>> Fun article
>>  
>> https://www.classicandsportscar.com/features/datsun-240z-vs-triumph-tr6-battle-america?utm_source=sfmc&utm_term=StoryImageTwo&utm_content=17115&utm_id=e9c3ec75-bab4-4bdf-b31f-3626fa20d1e3&sfmc_id=36122111&sfmc_activityid=100153f9-7a43-49c8-bb22-d4036a4de400&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=newsletter_04_02_2023 <https://www.classicandsportscar.com/features/datsun-240z-vs-triumph-tr6-battle-america?utm_source=sfmc&utm_term=StoryImageTwo&utm_content=17115&utm_id=e9c3ec75-bab4-4bdf-b31f-3626fa20d1e3&sfmc_id=36122111&sfmc_activityid=100153f9-7a43-49c8-bb22-d4036a4de400&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=newsletter_04_02_2023>
>>  
>>  
>>  
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net <http://team.net/> http://www.team.net/donate.html <http://www.team.net/donate.html>
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
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From dave1massey at cs.com  Mon Feb  6 06:02:55 2023
From: dave1massey at cs.com (DAVID MASSEY)
Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2023 13:02:55 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [TR] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <CAPK7CFC3DfZ8FmanAuyiksiG4pAysu5UhUpsO77JdcvEgootKQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <657A650F-5E1C-49F0-BB90-7CC5E7F06321@gmx.com>
 <CAPK7CFC3DfZ8FmanAuyiksiG4pAysu5UhUpsO77JdcvEgootKQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3592853.774645.1675688575737@mail.yahoo.com>

 And Mr. Two in Japanese is Ni San.
 
Dave 


 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Don Hiscock <don.hiscock at gmail.com>
To: John Macartney <johnbmacartney at gmx.com>
Cc: triumphs at autox.team.net
Sent: Sun, Feb 5, 2023 7:46 pm
Subject: Re: [TR] (no subject)

I'd never heard the 24 oz nickname,?John.? That's pretty funny, and I'll never look at a 240Z the same.??
There was a time when Toyota had the MR2 in production that some folks referred to it as the "Mister Two", and I've not been able to forget that one either.
On Sun, Feb 5, 2023 at 4:49 AM John Macartney <johnbmacartney at gmx.com> wrote:

Indeed, we do call it the 240 Zed in conformist circles.

However, within the UK and the classic car environment as a whole, you?ll usually find the big Datsun is referred to as the 24 oz meaning 24 ounce. Same goes for its successor, the 26 ounce. Neither car sold that well in Europe as a whole in its day.

Jonmac

Sent from a piece of electronic papyrus I found in King Tut?s tomb

> On 4 Feb 2023, at 19:00, triumphs-request at autox.team.net wrote:
> 
> Send Triumphs mailing list submissions to
>? ? triumphs at autox.team.net
> 
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>? ? http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>? ? triumphs-request at autox.team.net
> 
> You can reach the person managing the list at
>? ? triumphs-owner at autox.team.net
> 
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Triumphs digest..."
> Today's Topics:
> 
>? ?1. Re: difference between these two washers
>? ? ? (auprichard uprichard.net)
>? ?2. Re: difference between these two washers (Dave MacKay)
>? ?3. Re: difference between these two washers (Frank Fisher)
>? ?4. Re: difference between these two washers (Don Hiscock)
>? ?5. Re: difference between these two washers (Dave MacKay)
>? ?6. Re: difference between these two washers (Jeff Scarbrough)
>? ?7. Re: difference between these two washers (Jeff Scarbrough)
>? ?8. TR6 vs 240 Z (dave northrup)
> <mime-attachment>
> <mime-attachment>
> <mime-attachment>
> <mime-attachment>
> <mime-attachment>
> <mime-attachment>
> <mime-attachment>
> <mime-attachment>
> _______________________________________________
> 
> Triumphs mailing list
> Triumphs at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs

** triumphs at autox.team.net **

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From pebarnes71 at gmail.com  Wed Feb  8 08:55:02 2023
From: pebarnes71 at gmail.com (Philip Barnes)
Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2023 10:55:02 -0500
Subject: [TR] Apple Hydraulics
Message-ID: <CANxnku0GExBNwE4AwEn+zwsqTSu8zjHHiS_v1VU+6WOW11o39A@mail.gmail.com>

Any comments or experience with Apple Hydraulics for rebuilding Stromberg
carbs? I've been satisfied with their other services.

--Phil Barnes
--'71 TR6 since 1977
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From keithstewart at bell.net  Wed Feb  8 16:06:48 2023
From: keithstewart at bell.net (keithstewart at bell.net)
Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2023 18:06:48 -0500
Subject: [TR] Apple Hydraulics
In-Reply-To: <CANxnku0GExBNwE4AwEn+zwsqTSu8zjHHiS_v1VU+6WOW11o39A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANxnku0GExBNwE4AwEn+zwsqTSu8zjHHiS_v1VU+6WOW11o39A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <0ea501d93c12$05b27680$11176380$@bell.net>

Why not try Ken Dolhonde (kencorsaw at aol.com <mailto:kencorsaw at aol.com> ). He knows more about these carbs they anyone around. Most of the folks on 6-Pack looking for someone to rebuild their carbs, send them to Ken.

 

 

Keith Stewart

keithstewart at bell.net

 

 

 

From: Philip Barnes <pebarnes71 at gmail.com> 
Sent: February 8, 2023 10:55 AM
To: triumphs at autox.team.net
Subject: [TR] Apple Hydraulics

 

Any comments or experience with Apple Hydraulics for rebuilding Stromberg carbs? I've been satisfied with their other services.

 

--Phil Barnes

--'71 TR6 since 1977

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From pdqtr6 at comcast.net  Wed Feb  8 17:39:52 2023
From: pdqtr6 at comcast.net (pdqtr6)
Date: Wed, 08 Feb 2023 19:39:52 -0500
Subject: [TR] Apple Hydraulics
In-Reply-To: <0ea501d93c12$05b27680$11176380$@bell.net>
Message-ID: Puyfpookbk6QJPuygpEOYK.1675903197.bcc4067ca40a77567ba33476f728ec8e.MISSINGID@comcast.net

I had Joe Curto rebuild mine. He rebushed the throttle shafts and did all the stuff that are part of a complete rebuild within a reasonable time (although I had him do it during the winter when the car was off the road anyway). He even included a coffee mug with the returned carbs!I had Apple rebuild and resleeve my brake master cylinder. They did a good job, but no caffeine holder.Sent from my Galaxy
-------- Original message --------From: keithstewart at bell.net Date: 2/8/23  6:27 PM  (GMT-05:00) To: 'Philip Barnes' <pebarnes71 at gmail.com>, triumphs at autox.team.net Cc: kencorsaw at aol.com Subject: Re: [TR] Apple Hydraulics Why not try Ken Dolhonde (kencorsaw at aol.com). He knows more about these carbs they anyone around. Most of the folks on 6-Pack looking for someone to rebuild their carbs, send them to Ken.??Keith Stewartkeithstewart at bell.net???From: Philip Barnes <pebarnes71 at gmail.com> Sent: February 8, 2023 10:55 AMTo: triumphs at autox.team.netSubject: [TR] Apple Hydraulics?Any comments or experience with Apple Hydraulics for rebuilding Stromberg carbs? I've been satisfied with their other services.?--Phil Barnes--'71 TR6 since 1977
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From joemato at sbcglobal.net  Thu Feb  9 14:40:18 2023
From: joemato at sbcglobal.net (JOSEPH MATO)
Date: Thu, 9 Feb 2023 21:40:18 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [TR] Isn''t today JB's birthday
References: <711172127.2783957.1675978818935.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <711172127.2783957.1675978818935@mail.yahoo.com>

Too bad it don't start, TR-6
Joe Mato62 Wood RoadRedding, CT 06896917 232 1555
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From ryel at mac.com  Thu Feb  9 18:14:33 2023
From: ryel at mac.com (Rye Livingston)
Date: Thu, 9 Feb 2023 17:14:33 -0800
Subject: [TR] Isn''t today JB's birthday
In-Reply-To: <711172127.2783957.1675978818935@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <711172127.2783957.1675978818935.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
 <711172127.2783957.1675978818935@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <7E73F55F-BBD6-4C31-811A-A4B475993876@mac.com>

Sir John Black?s Birthday is Friday, February 10th.  If your car isn?t running, take a photo of it in the garage and then send it to DriveYourTriumphDay at gmail.com <mailto:DriveYourTriumphDay at gmail.com>

Rye



> On Feb 9, 2023, at 1:40 PM, JOSEPH MATO <joemato at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> 
> Too bad it don't start, TR-6
> 
> Joe Mato
> 62 Wood Road
> Redding, CT 06896
> 917 232 1555
> ** triumphs at autox.team.net **
> 
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs  http://www.team.net/archive
> 
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/ryel at mac.com

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From johnbmacartney at gmx.com  Sat Feb 11 03:20:00 2023
From: johnbmacartney at gmx.com (John Macartney)
Date: Sat, 11 Feb 2023 10:20:00 +0000
Subject: [TR] =?utf-8?q?Isn=E2=80=99t_today_JBs_birthday?=
Message-ID: <DA8F47D9-996B-4AE2-A23E-7D464ACF47C6@gmx.com>

February 10th is the day. I no longer have a Standard or Triumph car to drive, but I still celebrated the event. I drove my large convertible of Swedish origin to his former home near where I live which for many years has been a *very* expensive hotel and restaurant. Mindful of our stringent UK laws relating to DUI, I resisted the temptation for a pint of my favourite brew but enjoyed an excellent cup of freshly brewed coffee. Then I paid the check. Frightening! Nonetheless it was worth the trip. You can find out more about the venue at www.mallory.co.uk

Jonmac

Sent from a piece of electronic papyrus I found in King Tut?s tomb

> On 10 Feb 2023, at 19:00, triumphs-request at autox.team.net wrote:
> 
> Send Triumphs mailing list submissions to
>    triumphs at autox.team.net
> 
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>    http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>    triumphs-request at autox.team.net
> 
> You can reach the person managing the list at
>    triumphs-owner at autox.team.net
> 
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Triumphs digest..."
> Today's Topics:
> 
>   1. Isn''t today JB's birthday (JOSEPH MATO)
>   2. Re: Isn''t today JB's birthday (Rye Livingston)
> <mime-attachment>
> <mime-attachment>
> _______________________________________________
> 
> Triumphs mailing list
> Triumphs at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs


From don.hiscock at gmail.com  Sat Feb 11 05:23:43 2023
From: don.hiscock at gmail.com (Don Hiscock)
Date: Sat, 11 Feb 2023 06:23:43 -0600
Subject: [TR] =?utf-8?q?Isn=E2=80=99t_today_JBs_birthday?=
In-Reply-To: <DA8F47D9-996B-4AE2-A23E-7D464ACF47C6@gmx.com>
References: <DA8F47D9-996B-4AE2-A23E-7D464ACF47C6@gmx.com>
Message-ID: <CAPK7CFCK7-m4nz7wknXnR20p87FRKG=BgxeZu1zfrFjuMLL9jw@mail.gmail.com>

Jonmac, did you ever have a chance to be in a room or at some event with
Sir John?  Seems like with your and especially your father's long
association with S-T that might have happened at some time.  There can't be
many in this group who could say that...

On Sat, Feb 11, 2023 at 4:31 AM John Macartney <johnbmacartney at gmx.com>
wrote:

> February 10th is the day. I no longer have a Standard or Triumph car to
> drive, but I still celebrated the event. I drove my large convertible of
> Swedish origin to his former home near where I live which for many years
> has been a *very* expensive hotel and restaurant. Mindful of our stringent
> UK laws relating to DUI, I resisted the temptation for a pint of my
> favourite brew but enjoyed an excellent cup of freshly brewed coffee. Then
> I paid the check. Frightening! Nonetheless it was worth the trip. You can
> find out more about the venue at www.mallory.co.uk
>
> Jonmac
>
> Sent from a piece of electronic papyrus I found in King Tut?s tomb
>
> > On 10 Feb 2023, at 19:00, triumphs-request at autox.team.net wrote:
> >
> > Send Triumphs mailing list submissions to
> >    triumphs at autox.team.net
> >
> > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> >    http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs
> > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> >    triumphs-request at autox.team.net
> >
> > You can reach the person managing the list at
> >    triumphs-owner at autox.team.net
> >
> > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> > than "Re: Contents of Triumphs digest..."
> > Today's Topics:
> >
> >   1. Isn''t today JB's birthday (JOSEPH MATO)
> >   2. Re: Isn''t today JB's birthday (Rye Livingston)
> > <mime-attachment>
> > <mime-attachment>
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> > Triumphs mailing list
> > Triumphs at autox.team.net
> > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs
>
> ** triumphs at autox.team.net **
>
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs
> http://www.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/don.hiscock at gmail.com
>
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From johnbmacartney at gmx.com  Sat Feb 11 09:54:31 2023
From: johnbmacartney at gmx.com (John Macartney)
Date: Sat, 11 Feb 2023 16:54:31 +0000
Subject: [TR] =?utf-8?q?Isn=E2=80=99t_today_JBs_birthday?=
In-Reply-To: <CAPK7CFCK7-m4nz7wknXnR20p87FRKG=BgxeZu1zfrFjuMLL9jw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <DA8F47D9-996B-4AE2-A23E-7D464ACF47C6@gmx.com>
 <CAPK7CFCK7-m4nz7wknXnR20p87FRKG=BgxeZu1zfrFjuMLL9jw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5D70E5D6-63EB-4101-8F8D-E4AC6A5DB2AC@gmx.com>

Hi, Don,

I met Sir John on many occasions, though only as a child. When Dad left Standard (temporarily in 1945 on health grounds - he had seven duodenal ulcers) Black was a regular visitor at our home, usually on his way home. He arrived in late 1944 just after my birth and said ?I?ve come to see the son and heir. I hope I?m not too late?? to which my mother replied, ?I?m sorry Sir John, but you?re too late. He was put to bed an hour ago and cannot be disturbed?.
As Ma said on several occasions in later years, ?that was the only time I ever refused him and he was as meek and apologetic as a lamb.?
But he came on many other occasions as I grew older and I remember him as kind, generous and very interested in my progress at school - about which the less said the better.
John Black has not enjoyed a favourable press, mainly from Graham Robson, who never knew him AFAIK, and who has most unjustly portrayed Black as an ogre and ?a man with a Stalinist management style?. When I worked at Standard Triumph in the 60s, many of my colleagues at all levels were longstanding supporters and advocates of their former boss and wouldn?t hear anything to his discredit. Yes, he had mood swings, yes he could be an absolute s**t if the mood took him and he certainly didn?t suffer fools. But he was fair, kind and took a detailed interest in every employee, most of whom he knew by name and he also knew a great deal about them. This is largely because he made a point of going anywhere in the plant on a daily basis quite alone and talked to everyone he met. Additionally, on Mondays he made a point of welcoming new intake at their workstation. On Fridays, he visited every employee who was leaving, wished them good luck and if they had performed their jobs well, he assured them another job at Standard would be found if their new job didn?t work out.
It was those little things - and so many more about the man - that endeared him to so many on aspects of an amazing man who Graham Robson has grossly and unjustly misrepresented on many times in print.
I well remember Blacks memorial service in Coventry Cathedral in Jan 1965. More than sixty years later, that service is still a landmark event in the building history because the number of attendees vastly exceeded those who were there when members of our Royal Family were present. They crammed more than 5000 Standard Triumph employees and retirees in the building and there were another 2000 odd outside sheltering from a blizzard. People don?t turn out in those numbers in bad weather and the cold because they?ve nothing better to do. They were there because a certain man had helped them enjoy a better life or had done something for them as individuals that they never forgot. That?s some epitaph!
As an aside, I do a range of talks in the UK on a number of different automotive subjects and automotive people for clubs and societies and on the people side, it?s about 50/50 in the popularity stakes between William Morris (Lord Nuffield, another amazing man and philanthropist) and Sir John Black. I look forward to the day when the scales tip 60/40 in favour of Sir John.

Cheers, Jonmac



Sent from a piece of electronic papyrus I found in King Tut?s tomb

> On 11 Feb 2023, at 12:23, Don Hiscock <don.hiscock at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Jonmac, did you ever have a chance to be in a room or at some event with Sir John?  Seems like with your and especially your father's long association with S-T that might have happened at some time.  There can't be many in this group who could say that...
> 
>> On Sat, Feb 11, 2023 at 4:31 AM John Macartney <johnbmacartney at gmx.com> wrote:
>> February 10th is the day. I no longer have a Standard or Triumph car to drive, but I still celebrated the event. I drove my large convertible of Swedish origin to his former home near where I live which for many years has been a *very* expensive hotel and restaurant. Mindful of our stringent UK laws relating to DUI, I resisted the temptation for a pint of my favourite brew but enjoyed an excellent cup of freshly brewed coffee. Then I paid the check. Frightening! Nonetheless it was worth the trip. You can find out more about the venue at www.mallory.co.uk
>> 
>> Jonmac
>> 
>> Sent from a piece of electronic papyrus I found in King Tut?s tomb
>> 
>> > On 10 Feb 2023, at 19:00, triumphs-request at autox.team.net wrote:
>> > 
>> > Send Triumphs mailing list submissions to
>> >    triumphs at autox.team.net
>> > 
>> > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>> >    http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs
>> > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>> >    triumphs-request at autox.team.net
>> > 
>> > You can reach the person managing the list at
>> >    triumphs-owner at autox.team.net
>> > 
>> > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>> > than "Re: Contents of Triumphs digest..."
>> > Today's Topics:
>> > 
>> >   1. Isn''t today JB's birthday (JOSEPH MATO)
>> >   2. Re: Isn''t today JB's birthday (Rye Livingston)
>> > <mime-attachment>
>> > <mime-attachment>
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > 
>> > Triumphs mailing list
>> > Triumphs at autox.team.net
>> > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs
>> 
>> ** triumphs at autox.team.net **
>> 
>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs  http://www.team.net/archive
>> 
>> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/don.hiscock at gmail.com
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From trguy75 at gmail.com  Sat Feb 11 11:35:48 2023
From: trguy75 at gmail.com (Jim Henningsen)
Date: Sat, 11 Feb 2023 13:35:48 -0500
Subject: [TR] =?utf-8?q?Isn=E2=80=99t_today_JBs_birthday?=
In-Reply-To: <5D70E5D6-63EB-4101-8F8D-E4AC6A5DB2AC@gmx.com>
References: <5D70E5D6-63EB-4101-8F8D-E4AC6A5DB2AC@gmx.com>
Message-ID: <C71F4E1D-6A99-48D5-BD73-F309D1DB6F0B@gmail.com>

Great story!  Thank you for sharing. Jim Henningsen 

> On Feb 11, 2023, at 12:18 PM, John Macartney <johnbmacartney at gmx.com> wrote:
> 
> ?Hi, Don,
> 
> I met Sir John on many occasions, though only as a child. When Dad left Standard (temporarily in 1945 on health grounds - he had seven duodenal ulcers) Black was a regular visitor at our home, usually on his way home. He arrived in late 1944 just after my birth and said ?I?ve come to see the son and heir. I hope I?m not too late?? to which my mother replied, ?I?m sorry Sir John, but you?re too late. He was put to bed an hour ago and cannot be disturbed?.
> As Ma said on several occasions in later years, ?that was the only time I ever refused him and he was as meek and apologetic as a lamb.?
> But he came on many other occasions as I grew older and I remember him as kind, generous and very interested in my progress at school - about which the less said the better.
> John Black has not enjoyed a favourable press, mainly from Graham Robson, who never knew him AFAIK, and who has most unjustly portrayed Black as an ogre and ?a man with a Stalinist management style?. When I worked at Standard Triumph in the 60s, many of my colleagues at all levels were longstanding supporters and advocates of their former boss and wouldn?t hear anything to his discredit. Yes, he had mood swings, yes he could be an absolute s**t if the mood took him and he certainly didn?t suffer fools. But he was fair, kind and took a detailed interest in every employee, most of whom he knew by name and he also knew a great deal about them. This is largely because he made a point of going anywhere in the plant on a daily basis quite alone and talked to everyone he met. Additionally, on Mondays he made a point of welcoming new intake at their workstation. On Fridays, he visited every employee who was leaving, wished them good luck and if they had performed their jobs well, he assured them another job at Standard would be found if their new job didn?t work out.
> It was those little things - and so many more about the man - that endeared him to so many on aspects of an amazing man who Graham Robson has grossly and unjustly misrepresented on many times in print.
> I well remember Blacks memorial service in Coventry Cathedral in Jan 1965. More than sixty years later, that service is still a landmark event in the building history because the number of attendees vastly exceeded those who were there when members of our Royal Family were present. They crammed more than 5000 Standard Triumph employees and retirees in the building and there were another 2000 odd outside sheltering from a blizzard. People don?t turn out in those numbers in bad weather and the cold because they?ve nothing better to do. They were there because a certain man had helped them enjoy a better life or had done something for them as individuals that they never forgot. That?s some epitaph!
> As an aside, I do a range of talks in the UK on a number of different automotive subjects and automotive people for clubs and societies and on the people side, it?s about 50/50 in the popularity stakes between William Morris (Lord Nuffield, another amazing man and philanthropist) and Sir John Black. I look forward to the day when the scales tip 60/40 in favour of Sir John.
> 
> Cheers, Jonmac
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from a piece of electronic papyrus I found in King Tut?s tomb
> 
>> On 11 Feb 2023, at 12:23, Don Hiscock <don.hiscock at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Jonmac, did you ever have a chance to be in a room or at some event with Sir John?  Seems like with your and especially your father's long association with S-T that might have happened at some time.  There can't be many in this group who could say that...
>> 
>>> On Sat, Feb 11, 2023 at 4:31 AM John Macartney <johnbmacartney at gmx.com> wrote:
>>> February 10th is the day. I no longer have a Standard or Triumph car to drive, but I still celebrated the event. I drove my large convertible of Swedish origin to his former home near where I live which for many years has been a *very* expensive hotel and restaurant. Mindful of our stringent UK laws relating to DUI, I resisted the temptation for a pint of my favourite brew but enjoyed an excellent cup of freshly brewed coffee. Then I paid the check. Frightening! Nonetheless it was worth the trip. You can find out more about the venue at www.mallory.co.uk
>>> 
>>> Jonmac
>>> 
>>> Sent from a piece of electronic papyrus I found in King Tut?s tomb
>>> 
>>> > On 10 Feb 2023, at 19:00, triumphs-request at autox.team.net wrote:
>>> > 
>>> > Send Triumphs mailing list submissions to
>>> >    triumphs at autox.team.net
>>> > 
>>> > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>>> >    http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs
>>> > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>>> >    triumphs-request at autox.team.net
>>> > 
>>> > You can reach the person managing the list at
>>> >    triumphs-owner at autox.team.net
>>> > 
>>> > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>>> > than "Re: Contents of Triumphs digest..."
>>> > Today's Topics:
>>> > 
>>> >   1. Isn''t today JB's birthday (JOSEPH MATO)
>>> >   2. Re: Isn''t today JB's birthday (Rye Livingston)
>>> > <mime-attachment>
>>> > <mime-attachment>
>>> > _______________________________________________
>>> > 
>>> > Triumphs mailing list
>>> > Triumphs at autox.team.net
>>> > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs
>>> 
>>> ** triumphs at autox.team.net **
>>> 
>>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs  http://www.team.net/archive
>>> 
>>> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/don.hiscock at gmail.com
> ** triumphs at autox.team.net **
> 
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs  http://www.team.net/archive
> 
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/trguy75 at gmail.com
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From mmarr at albiontechnical.com  Sat Feb 11 11:39:40 2023
From: mmarr at albiontechnical.com (Michael Marr)
Date: Sat, 11 Feb 2023 18:39:40 +0000
Subject: [TR] =?utf-8?q?Isn=E2=80=99t_today_JBs_birthday?=
In-Reply-To: <5D70E5D6-63EB-4101-8F8D-E4AC6A5DB2AC@gmx.com>
References: <DA8F47D9-996B-4AE2-A23E-7D464ACF47C6@gmx.com>
 <CAPK7CFCK7-m4nz7wknXnR20p87FRKG=BgxeZu1zfrFjuMLL9jw@mail.gmail.com>
 <5D70E5D6-63EB-4101-8F8D-E4AC6A5DB2AC@gmx.com>
Message-ID: <7CE7EC6A-C807-4DAC-9287-E61AA0908BF8@albiontechnical.com>

Great story, as always, John.  Your reminiscences make me homesick for my mother country, which I left at the age of 23, 50 years ago this coming April.  How the time has flown?

Mike

Michael Marr

Mobile:  630-202-0065

Sent from my iPad

On Feb 11, 2023, at 11:12, John Macartney <johnbmacartney at gmx.com> wrote:

? Hi, Don,

I met Sir John on many occasions, though only as a child. When Dad left Standard (temporarily in 1945 on health grounds - he had seven duodenal ulcers) Black was a regular visitor at our home, usually on his way home. He arrived in late 1944 just after my birth and said ?I?ve come to see the son and heir. I hope I?m not too late?? to which my mother replied, ?I?m sorry Sir John, but you?re too late. He was put to bed an hour ago and cannot be disturbed?.
As Ma said on several occasions in later years, ?that was the only time I ever refused him and he was as meek and apologetic as a lamb.?
But he came on many other occasions as I grew older and I remember him as kind, generous and very interested in my progress at school - about which the less said the better.
John Black has not enjoyed a favourable press, mainly from Graham Robson, who never knew him AFAIK, and who has most unjustly portrayed Black as an ogre and ?a man with a Stalinist management style?. When I worked at Standard Triumph in the 60s, many of my colleagues at all levels were longstanding supporters and advocates of their former boss and wouldn?t hear anything to his discredit. Yes, he had mood swings, yes he could be an absolute s**t if the mood took him and he certainly didn?t suffer fools. But he was fair, kind and took a detailed interest in every employee, most of whom he knew by name and he also knew a great deal about them. This is largely because he made a point of going anywhere in the plant on a daily basis quite alone and talked to everyone he met. Additionally, on Mondays he made a point of welcoming new intake at their workstation. On Fridays, he visited every employee who was leaving, wished them good luck and if they had performed their jobs well, he assured them another job at Standard would be found if their new job didn?t work out.
It was those little things - and so many more about the man - that endeared him to so many on aspects of an amazing man who Graham Robson has grossly and unjustly misrepresented on many times in print.
I well remember Blacks memorial service in Coventry Cathedral in Jan 1965. More than sixty years later, that service is still a landmark event in the building history because the number of attendees vastly exceeded those who were there when members of our Royal Family were present. They crammed more than 5000 Standard Triumph employees and retirees in the building and there were another 2000 odd outside sheltering from a blizzard. People don?t turn out in those numbers in bad weather and the cold because they?ve nothing better to do. They were there because a certain man had helped them enjoy a better life or had done something for them as individuals that they never forgot. That?s some epitaph!
As an aside, I do a range of talks in the UK on a number of different automotive subjects and automotive people for clubs and societies and on the people side, it?s about 50/50 in the popularity stakes between William Morris (Lord Nuffield, another amazing man and philanthropist) and Sir John Black. I look forward to the day when the scales tip 60/40 in favour of Sir John.

Cheers, Jonmac



Sent from a piece of electronic papyrus I found in King Tut?s tomb

On 11 Feb 2023, at 12:23, Don Hiscock <don.hiscock at gmail.com<mailto:don.hiscock at gmail.com>> wrote:

Jonmac, did you ever have a chance to be in a room or at some event with Sir John?  Seems like with your and especially your father's long association with S-T that might have happened at some time.  There can't be many in this group who could say that...

On Sat, Feb 11, 2023 at 4:31 AM John Macartney <johnbmacartney at gmx.com<mailto:johnbmacartney at gmx.com>> wrote:
February 10th is the day. I no longer have a Standard or Triumph car to drive, but I still celebrated the event. I drove my large convertible of Swedish origin to his former home near where I live which for many years has been a *very* expensive hotel and restaurant. Mindful of our stringent UK laws relating to DUI, I resisted the temptation for a pint of my favourite brew but enjoyed an excellent cup of freshly brewed coffee. Then I paid the check. Frightening! Nonetheless it was worth the trip. You can find out more about the venue at www.mallory.co.uk<http://www.mallory.co.uk>

Jonmac

Sent from a piece of electronic papyrus I found in King Tut?s tomb

> On 10 Feb 2023, at 19:00, triumphs-request at autox.team.net<mailto:triumphs-request at autox.team.net> wrote:
>
> Send Triumphs mailing list submissions to
>    triumphs at autox.team.net<mailto:triumphs at autox.team.net>
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>    http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>    triumphs-request at autox.team.net<mailto:triumphs-request at autox.team.net>
>
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> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Triumphs digest..."
> Today's Topics:
>
>   1. Isn''t today JB's birthday (JOSEPH MATO)
>   2. Re: Isn''t today JB's birthday (Rye Livingston)
> <mime-attachment>
> <mime-attachment>
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From notakitcar at yahoo.com  Sat Feb 11 12:21:17 2023
From: notakitcar at yahoo.com (bill beecher)
Date: Sat, 11 Feb 2023 13:21:17 -0600
Subject: [TR] =?utf-8?q?Isn=E2=80=99t_today_JBs_birthday?=
In-Reply-To: <DA8F47D9-996B-4AE2-A23E-7D464ACF47C6@gmx.com>
References: <DA8F47D9-996B-4AE2-A23E-7D464ACF47C6@gmx.com>
Message-ID: <B7ED23ED-2753-42DC-88CA-CEF21DE5E173@yahoo.com>

John,
You are not alone by driving the family tin-top, too cold and rainy for the faithful TR3. 
Are you sure you didn?t spend the afternoon in their lively spa?

Cheers ,
Bill
TS30800L

?Shoot low sheriff, she?s riding a shetland? ?B.Wills

On Feb 11, 2023, at 4:24 AM, John Macartney <johnbmacartney at gmx.com> wrote:

?February 10th is the day. I no longer have a Standard or Triumph car to drive, but I still celebrated the event. I drove my large convertible of Swedish origin to his former home near where I live which for many years has been a *very* expensive hotel and restaurant. Mindful of our stringent UK laws relating to DUI, I resisted the temptation for a pint of my favourite brew but enjoyed an excellent cup of freshly brewed coffee. Then I paid the check. Frightening! Nonetheless it was worth the trip. You can find out more about the venue at www.mallory.co.uk

Jonmac

Sent from a piece of electronic papyrus I found in King Tut?s tomb

> On 10 Feb 2023, at 19:00, triumphs-request at autox.team.net wrote:
> 
> Send Triumphs mailing list submissions to
>   triumphs at autox.team.net
> 
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>   http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>   triumphs-request at autox.team.net
> 
> You can reach the person managing the list at
>   triumphs-owner at autox.team.net
> 
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Triumphs digest..."
> Today's Topics:
> 
>  1. Isn''t today JB's birthday (JOSEPH MATO)
>  2. Re: Isn''t today JB's birthday (Rye Livingston)
> <mime-attachment>
> <mime-attachment>
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> Triumphs at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs

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From ryel at mac.com  Sat Feb 11 13:02:56 2023
From: ryel at mac.com (Rye Livingston)
Date: Sat, 11 Feb 2023 12:02:56 -0800
Subject: [TR] =?utf-8?q?Isn=E2=80=99t_today_JBs_birthday?=
In-Reply-To: <DA8F47D9-996B-4AE2-A23E-7D464ACF47C6@gmx.com>
References: <DA8F47D9-996B-4AE2-A23E-7D464ACF47C6@gmx.com>
Message-ID: <0C9109AF-D838-4CC1-B9CE-B7BE804F0AFD@mac.com>

I?ve already received over 500 emails with photos.  Not only a bunch of photos from the British Motor Museum in Gaydon Warwickshire England as they hosted a DYTD event, they rolled out the oldest surviving Triumph.  A 1923 10/20.


I?ve received several photos from South Africa, Australia, New Zealand, Finland, Germany, Netherlands, and the UK.  Today photos are coming in from Canada and the USA. This is my favorite photo so far from South Africa with Zebras!


I?ve also received several photos of cars snug in the garage hibernating, which is perfect.  If there is salty roads or what ever, many participated anyway which is great

With that said, this YouTube tops everything.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63L88arPGms <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63L88arPGms>

If you took a photo yesterday on February 10th, send it to DriveYourTriumphDay at gmail.com <mailto:DriveYourTriumphDay at gmail.com> to be included with the photo collection from around the world.

Regards,

Rye Livingston
Triumph Travelers Sports Car Club

> On Feb 11, 2023, at 2:20 AM, John Macartney <johnbmacartney at gmx.com> wrote:
> 
> February 10th is the day. I no longer have a Standard or Triumph car to drive, but I still celebrated the event. I drove my large convertible of Swedish origin to his former home near where I live which for many years has been a *very* expensive hotel and restaurant. Mindful of our stringent UK laws relating to DUI, I resisted the temptation for a pint of my favourite brew but enjoyed an excellent cup of freshly brewed coffee. Then I paid the check. Frightening! Nonetheless it was worth the trip. You can find out more about the venue at www.mallory.co.uk
> 
> Jonmac
> 
> Sent from a piece of electronic papyrus I found in King Tut?s tomb
> 
>> On 10 Feb 2023, at 19:00, triumphs-request at autox.team.net wrote:
>> 
>> Send Triumphs mailing list submissions to
>>   triumphs at autox.team.net
>> 
>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>>   http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs
>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>>   triumphs-request at autox.team.net
>> 
>> You can reach the person managing the list at
>>   triumphs-owner at autox.team.net
>> 
>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>> than "Re: Contents of Triumphs digest..."
>> Today's Topics:
>> 
>>  1. Isn''t today JB's birthday (JOSEPH MATO)
>>  2. Re: Isn''t today JB's birthday (Rye Livingston)
>> <mime-attachment>
>> <mime-attachment>
>> _______________________________________________
>> 
>> Triumphs mailing list
>> Triumphs at autox.team.net
>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs
> 
> ** triumphs at autox.team.net **
> 
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs  http://www.team.net/archive
> 
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/ryel at mac.com

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From dave at ranteer.com  Sun Feb 12 09:57:55 2023
From: dave at ranteer.com (dave northrup)
Date: Sun, 12 Feb 2023 16:57:55 +0000
Subject: [TR] OD solenoid
Message-ID: <2e8c438e0ed64811aa2eddb55aa879ab@ranteer.com>

Ours never had that rubber boot.   Can someone tell me exactly where it goes?
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From ptegler at verizon.net  Sun Feb 12 10:35:22 2023
From: ptegler at verizon.net (Paul Tegler)
Date: Sun, 12 Feb 2023 12:35:22 -0500
Subject: [TR] OD solenoid
In-Reply-To: <2e8c438e0ed64811aa2eddb55aa879ab@ranteer.com>
References: <2e8c438e0ed64811aa2eddb55aa879ab@ranteer.com>
Message-ID: <7f92232e-cf81-c6c0-e654-36c00af2998a@verizon.net>

the boot on the body or the boot on the pushrod?

ptegler

On 2/12/2023 11:57 AM, dave northrup wrote:
> Ours never had that rubber boot.? ?Can someone tell me exactly where 
> it goes?
>
> ** triumphs at autox.team.net **
>
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs  http://www.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/ptegler at verizon.net

-- 
Paul Tegler
ptegler at verizon.net  www.teglerizer.com


From rrochlin at comcast.net  Sun Feb 12 10:54:51 2023
From: rrochlin at comcast.net (Robert Rochlin)
Date: Sun, 12 Feb 2023 13:54:51 -0400
Subject: [TR] OD solenoid
In-Reply-To: <2e8c438e0ed64811aa2eddb55aa879ab@ranteer.com>
References: <2e8c438e0ed64811aa2eddb55aa879ab@ranteer.com>
Message-ID: <198E90F2-775B-4E3D-9F74-41C484854777@comcast.net>

When I replaced my OD solenoid about 2 years ago the new solenoid had the boot installed.  As l recall, buying the boot alone was almost as expensive as buying the solenoid with. the boot installed.
Best
Bob
?72 TR6



From dave at ranteer.com  Sun Feb 12 12:38:06 2023
From: dave at ranteer.com (dave northrup)
Date: Sun, 12 Feb 2023 19:38:06 +0000
Subject: [TR] OD solenoid
In-Reply-To: <2e8c438e0ed64811aa2eddb55aa879ab@ranteer.com>
References: <2e8c438e0ed64811aa2eddb55aa879ab@ranteer.com>
Message-ID: <1c3277d63466451592c359829b91cd88@ranteer.com>

Clarification ? not the solenoid itself, but the pushrod.  There?s that boot that came with it and I?m not sure how exactly it is supposed to be installed.  The car has never had that little rubber boot on it; this is a new solenoid and pushrod that I?m installing.

From: Triumphs <triumphs-bounces at autox.team.net> On Behalf Of dave northrup
Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2023 10:58 AM
To: Triumphs <triumphs at autox.team.net>
Subject: [TR] OD solenoid

Ours never had that rubber boot.   Can someone tell me exactly where it goes?
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From keithstewart at bell.net  Sun Feb 12 13:35:51 2023
From: keithstewart at bell.net (keithstewart at bell.net)
Date: Sun, 12 Feb 2023 15:35:51 -0500
Subject: [TR] =?utf-8?q?Isn=E2=80=99t_today_JBs_birthday?=
In-Reply-To: <0C9109AF-D838-4CC1-B9CE-B7BE804F0AFD@mac.com>
References: <DA8F47D9-996B-4AE2-A23E-7D464ACF47C6@gmx.com>
 <0C9109AF-D838-4CC1-B9CE-B7BE804F0AFD@mac.com>
Message-ID: <060501d93f21$990da820$cb28f860$@bell.net>

And thanks to Rye and his club for pulling these photos together and for encouraging us to get out there. I always enjoy looking through the collection to see who took the time to participate and where those cars are located. And thanks to all of you who participated. We loved looking over your Triumphs. Also, that video was awesome!

 

Keith Stewart

 

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From kinderlehrer at comcast.net  Sun Feb 12 15:12:11 2023
From: kinderlehrer at comcast.net (Kinderlehrer)
Date: Sun, 12 Feb 2023 14:12:11 -0800
Subject: [TR] OD solenoid
In-Reply-To: <1c3277d63466451592c359829b91cd88@ranteer.com>
References: <2e8c438e0ed64811aa2eddb55aa879ab@ranteer.com>
 <1c3277d63466451592c359829b91cd88@ranteer.com>
Message-ID: <008a01d93f2f$1124af90$336e0eb0$@net>

As I recall, the boot goes over the push rod with the small end facing down and the large end fitting through the large hole in the bracket that the holds the solenoid.

 

Bob

 

From: Triumphs [mailto:triumphs-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of dave northrup
Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2023 11:38 AM
To: dave northrup; Triumphs
Subject: Re: [TR] OD solenoid

 

Clarification ? not the solenoid itself, but the pushrod.  There?s that boot that came with it and I?m not sure how exactly it is supposed to be installed.  The car has never had that little rubber boot on it; this is a new solenoid and pushrod that I?m installing.

 

From: Triumphs <triumphs-bounces at autox.team.net> On Behalf Of dave northrup
Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2023 10:58 AM
To: Triumphs <triumphs at autox.team.net>
Subject: [TR] OD solenoid

 

Ours never had that rubber boot.   Can someone tell me exactly where it goes? 

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From tr3a58dean at gmail.com  Sun Feb 12 18:58:09 2023
From: tr3a58dean at gmail.com (Dean Tetterton)
Date: Sun, 12 Feb 2023 20:58:09 -0500
Subject: [TR] OD solenoid
In-Reply-To: <008a01d93f2f$1124af90$336e0eb0$@net>
References: <2e8c438e0ed64811aa2eddb55aa879ab@ranteer.com>
 <1c3277d63466451592c359829b91cd88@ranteer.com>
 <008a01d93f2f$1124af90$336e0eb0$@net>
Message-ID: <CADK3t94+u3GRgD=m3opedHesCezgpvWZucc6pCK1B7FLM=grsA@mail.gmail.com>

My experience with the OD solenoid boot (A type) has been that it
caused more problems than it prevented. They
get stiff and impede the plunger pulling in or dropping out. Only once did
a small pebble get in there and jam it. My first car was
a TR3A bought in 1964. Since then I have always had at least one and most
of the time several Triumph's. I have always had OD
on my cars.
Now down to 2 TR's
Dean Tetterton



On Sun, Feb 12, 2023 at 6:31 PM Kinderlehrer <kinderlehrer at comcast.net>
wrote:

> As I recall, the boot goes over the push rod with the small end facing
> down and the large end fitting through the large hole in the bracket that
> the holds the solenoid.
>
>
>
> Bob
>
>
>
> *From:* Triumphs [mailto:triumphs-bounces at autox.team.net] *On Behalf Of *dave
> northrup
> *Sent:* Sunday, February 12, 2023 11:38 AM
> *To:* dave northrup; Triumphs
> *Subject:* Re: [TR] OD solenoid
>
>
>
> Clarification ? not the solenoid itself, but the pushrod.  There?s that
> boot that came with it and I?m not sure how exactly it is supposed to be
> installed.  The car has never had that little rubber boot on it; this is a
> new solenoid and pushrod that I?m installing.
>
>
>
> *From:* Triumphs <triumphs-bounces at autox.team.net> *On Behalf Of *dave
> northrup
> *Sent:* Sunday, February 12, 2023 10:58 AM
> *To:* Triumphs <triumphs at autox.team.net>
> *Subject:* [TR] OD solenoid
>
>
>
> Ours never had that rubber boot.   Can someone tell me exactly where it
> goes?
> ** triumphs at autox.team.net **
>
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs
> http://www.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/tr3a58dean at gmail.com
>
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From aljlthomson at charter.net  Mon Feb 13 05:46:31 2023
From: aljlthomson at charter.net (Alex & Janet Thomson)
Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2023 07:46:31 -0500
Subject: [TR] =?utf-8?q?Isn=E2=80=99t_today_JBs_birthday?=
In-Reply-To: <0C9109AF-D838-4CC1-B9CE-B7BE804F0AFD@mac.com>
References: <DA8F47D9-996B-4AE2-A23E-7D464ACF47C6@gmx.com>
 <0C9109AF-D838-4CC1-B9CE-B7BE804F0AFD@mac.com>
Message-ID: <000f01d93fa9$329e0520$97da0f60$@charter.net>

Wow ? I hope that red TR4 in Ottawa got a good, warm bath after that snowy, rainy drive. Now, that?s determination!

 

Alex Thomson

Woodbury, CT.

 

From: Triumphs [mailto:triumphs-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Rye Livingston
Sent: Saturday, February 11, 2023 3:03 PM
To: John Macartney
Cc: triumphs at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [TR] Isn?t today JBs birthday

 

I?ve already received over 500 emails with photos.  Not only a bunch of photos from the British Motor Museum in Gaydon Warwickshire England as they hosted a DYTD event, they rolled out the oldest surviving Triumph.  A 1923 10/20.



 

I?ve received several photos from South Africa, Australia, New Zealand, Finland, Germany, Netherlands, and the UK.  Today photos are coming in from Canada and the USA. This is my favorite photo so far from South Africa with Zebras!



 

I?ve also received several photos of cars snug in the garage hibernating, which is perfect.  If there is salty roads or what ever, many participated anyway which is great

 

With that said, this YouTube tops everything.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63L88arPGms

 

If you took a photo yesterday on February 10th, send it to DriveYourTriumphDay at gmail.com to be included with the photo collection from around the world.

 

Regards,

 

Rye Livingston

Triumph Travelers Sports Car Club





On Feb 11, 2023, at 2:20 AM, John Macartney <johnbmacartney at gmx.com> wrote:

 

February 10th is the day. I no longer have a Standard or Triumph car to drive, but I still celebrated the event. I drove my large convertible of Swedish origin to his former home near where I live which for many years has been a *very* expensive hotel and restaurant. Mindful of our stringent UK laws relating to DUI, I resisted the temptation for a pint of my favourite brew but enjoyed an excellent cup of freshly brewed coffee. Then I paid the check. Frightening! Nonetheless it was worth the trip. You can find out more about the venue at www.mallory.co.uk

Jonmac

Sent from a piece of electronic papyrus I found in King Tut?s tomb




On 10 Feb 2023, at 19:00, triumphs-request at autox.team.net wrote:

Send Triumphs mailing list submissions to
  triumphs at autox.team.net

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
  http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
  triumphs-request at autox.team.net

You can reach the person managing the list at
  triumphs-owner at autox.team.net

When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of Triumphs digest..."
Today's Topics:

 1. Isn''t today JB's birthday (JOSEPH MATO)
 2. Re: Isn''t today JB's birthday (Rye Livingston)
<mime-attachment>
<mime-attachment>
_______________________________________________

Triumphs mailing list
Triumphs at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs


** triumphs at autox.team.net **

Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs  http://www.team.net/archive

Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/ryel at mac.com

 

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From yellowtr at adelphia.net  Mon Feb 13 06:57:24 2023
From: yellowtr at adelphia.net (yellowtr at adelphia.net)
Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2023 08:57:24 -0500
Subject: [TR] =?utf-8?q?Isn=E2=80=99t_today_JBs_birthday?=
In-Reply-To: <000f01d93fa9$329e0520$97da0f60$@charter.net>
References: <DA8F47D9-996B-4AE2-A23E-7D464ACF47C6@gmx.com>
 <0C9109AF-D838-4CC1-B9CE-B7BE804F0AFD@mac.com>
 <000f01d93fa9$329e0520$97da0f60$@charter.net>
Message-ID: <03228580-cb5f-bd57-7ece-ceb773adbe5d@roadrunner.com>

My 3 TRs are in the garage asleep until at least early April. Sort of 
like bears in winter.

But back when I started with Triumphs in 1968, I used to drive my 3 all 
winter. It was real good in the snow believe it or not. Heater was ok to 
defrost the windshield.

Bob


From ryel at mac.com  Mon Feb 13 09:56:26 2023
From: ryel at mac.com (Rye Livingston)
Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2023 08:56:26 -0800
Subject: [TR] =?utf-8?q?Isn=E2=80=99t_today_JBs_birthday?=
In-Reply-To: <03228580-cb5f-bd57-7ece-ceb773adbe5d@roadrunner.com>
References: <DA8F47D9-996B-4AE2-A23E-7D464ACF47C6@gmx.com>
 <0C9109AF-D838-4CC1-B9CE-B7BE804F0AFD@mac.com>
 <000f01d93fa9$329e0520$97da0f60$@charter.net>
 <03228580-cb5f-bd57-7ece-ceb773adbe5d@roadrunner.com>
Message-ID: <F1C57142-468C-4E22-8D3F-722A2D44EB6A@mac.com>

Did you take a photo of your TR3s hibernating?  I?ve received several photos like that from Germany, Finland and the UK, Canada and the US.  Some with the garage door open and snow outside.

Rye

> On Feb 13, 2023, at 5:57 AM, yellowtr at adelphia.net wrote:
> 
> My 3 TRs are in the garage asleep until at least early April. Sort of like bears in winter.
> 
> But back when I started with Triumphs in 1968, I used to drive my 3 all winter. It was real good in the snow believe it or not. Heater was ok to defrost the windshield.
> 
> Bob
> 
> ** triumphs at autox.team.net **
> 
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs  http://www.team.net/archive
> 
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/ryel at mac.com


From dave at ranteer.com  Fri Feb 17 11:40:39 2023
From: dave at ranteer.com (dave northrup)
Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2023 18:40:39 +0000
Subject: [TR] oops
Message-ID: <eb35e4b560a9416183e1d92ee20dac4d@ranteer.com>

72 TR6 A type overdrive

Been a few years since I have done this so of course I forgot to check to make sure the car was in neutral before I removed the top of the transmission.

Got it all back together and the car is stuck in reverse.

I know I have to take the top off again.  my question is do I move the shift lever down to reverse before I reassemble or do I try to get the tranny back in neutral?

Thanks!
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From tr3a58dean at gmail.com  Fri Feb 17 12:21:18 2023
From: tr3a58dean at gmail.com (Dean Tetterton)
Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2023 14:21:18 -0500
Subject: [TR] oops
In-Reply-To: <eb35e4b560a9416183e1d92ee20dac4d@ranteer.com>
References: <eb35e4b560a9416183e1d92ee20dac4d@ranteer.com>
Message-ID: <CADK3t96q2tWoD5e5JNHDO2UxfNSsg1jm4yvWNHfadmMq2TZGqA@mail.gmail.com>

Using the blue parts book for reference, Plate CL page 161. The two brass
shift forks, #38 &39 must engage in the
groove of the shift synchro hubs. Also part #40 must engage with the pin on
the reverse operating lever. It is on
plate CN page 171 part #54. The gear set in the case should be in
neutral and the shift lever in the top should be in neutral.
  The reverse lever #54 can move independent of the shift lever and miss
the part #40. The part #54 is fastened to the inside
of the case and moves the reverse idler gear #50.
It is simpler then it sounds.

Dean

On Fri, Feb 17, 2023 at 1:48 PM dave northrup <dave at ranteer.com> wrote:

> 72 TR6 A type overdrive
>
>
>
> Been a few years since I have done this so of course I forgot to check to
> make sure the car was in neutral before I removed the top of the
> transmission.
>
>
>
> Got it all back together and the car is stuck in reverse.
>
>
>
> I know I have to take the top off again.  my question is do I move the
> shift lever down to reverse before I reassemble or do I try to get the
> tranny back in neutral?
>
>
>
> Thanks!
> ** triumphs at autox.team.net **
>
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs
> http://www.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/tr3a58dean at gmail.com
>
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From davgil at aol.com  Fri Feb 17 13:35:20 2023
From: davgil at aol.com (davgil at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2023 20:35:20 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [TR] No longer a TR6 owner
References: <1052938148.1824819.1676666120186.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1052938148.1824819.1676666120186@mail.yahoo.com>

After 30 years of ownership, I have left the Triumph fraternity.? A bittersweet moment as I have traded my 1976 TR6 for a Piper Cherokee, which will feed my other hobby. This list has been of extraordinary help to me and I want to thank those whose advice has been instrumental in helping me solve problems and keep my 6 on the road.? Over the years, I recall many that have passed such as Randall who would always respond in great detail.? I watched as Fred Thomas learning to powder coat and became a master at it.? I was there when fluif was invented and Dave Massey has been a great help with electrical issues. There have been too many to mention everyone.? Most of all, I want to thank Mark for all of the work that has gone into keeping these lists up.I have some parts that I will never use now and wanted to offer them to the list before I otherwise disposed of them.? All of these are new in the box.Moss Brake line set part number 588-198. Complete set of brake lines.? Extras I have tossed in the box are half of a caliper re-build kit, half of a wheel cylinder fitting kit (I used one out of each), 2 pipe to frame clips a new metric and a new sae bleed screw.? There is a NAPA 5/16 by 12 inch brake line NAPA part number 813-5466 and a couple of caliper lube pouches.6 new Champion RN11YC spark plugsImport Direct ignition coil O?Reilly part number 23-0255Bravex electric fuel pump X001WLE2F Clutch master cylinder .70 bore Moss part number 581-54125 foot roll of ? inch brake lineRoadster Factory TR-6 spare parts catalogs volume 1 and 2.? Roadster Factory TR 250 spare parts catalogCost of all of this was over $400.00.? I will take $300.00 plus actual shipping cost.? The $300.00 will be $200.00 to me and $100.00 donated to Fat Chance Garage.? If you are interested let me know by email at davgill1954 at gmail.com. The items can be picked up in Lavonia, GA, Marietta, GA or Stockbridge, GA with prior arrangements.? Otherwise, I will ship them.David Gill

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From aribertn at gmail.com  Fri Feb 17 21:05:36 2023
From: aribertn at gmail.com (aribert neumann)
Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2023 23:05:36 -0500
Subject: [TR] GT6 trans bearing noise on launch
Message-ID: <CAGkVM2_JdsQK+6A0Mq1kDfTWeURKJaRQ9XvQdi74jW+1YbhusA@mail.gmail.com>

Greetings all:

My Spit bodied GT6 has made a bearing noise / screech (may be a bit severe
of a word) on launch.  This noise lasts about half way thru 1st gear but
beyond full clutch release.  I've pulled the trans and begun to
disassemble.   The throw out bearing feels good.  The input shaft bearing
feels good - I was expecting this bearing to be the problem child - bearing
only has 33k miles on it.  I've had similar bearing noise on launch on my
winter car (Isuzu Amigo) and the problem was the input shaft bearing.  What
else should I be looking for, focused on, as I continue to dismantle the
trans?

Of note:  the oil level in the trans dropped low enough (twice, hanging my
head in shame) that the OD was dropping out and reengaging.
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From ptegler at verizon.net  Fri Feb 17 23:50:39 2023
From: ptegler at verizon.net (Paul Tegler)
Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2023 01:50:39 -0500
Subject: [TR] GT6 trans bearing noise on launch
In-Reply-To: <CAGkVM2_JdsQK+6A0Mq1kDfTWeURKJaRQ9XvQdi74jW+1YbhusA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGkVM2_JdsQK+6A0Mq1kDfTWeURKJaRQ9XvQdi74jW+1YbhusA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <28ef22e6-da37-217e-0533-a839b93ebe78@verizon.net>

having rebuilt at least 15+ Spit/GT6 boxes, I can say I've never heard a 
'screech' as an issue with these boxes.
You only need to be about 1/2-2/3 a qt low for the O/D to drop out 
(assuming a D -type here?)
when you say 'launch' ...my minds eye reads 'hard dump from a stand still'.
I'm hoping you're simply 'short-handing' starting off from a standstill.

If it's only in first gear, a very high load is being placed on the bush 
in the ass end of the crank which is only oiled bronze.
If it's the tranny.... cold on the bench... you can chuck on a big 1/2" 
electric drill to spin up the tranny.? If anything... dry bearings 
created the 'screech' befor they became saturated in oil once the tranny 
started spinning. Even 'looow' oil... as long as the level was not below 
the layshaft bearings, (barely 1 qt left) all the bearings got oiled 
once spun up.? I'f you're tearing into it, replace all the bearings and 
synchros. Biggest effort will be finding goot synchros to mesh wit hthe 
various gears. You'll need more than the number need so you can mix and 
match and test enough that fit right.
good luck.

ptegler

On 2/17/2023 11:05 PM, aribert neumann wrote:
> Greetings all:
>
> My Spit bodied GT6 has made a bearing noise / screech (may be a bit 
> severe of a word) on launch.? This noise lasts about half way thru 1st 
> gear but beyond?full clutch release.? I've pulled the trans and begun 
> to disassemble.? ?The throw out bearing feels good.? The input shaft 
> bearing feels good - I was expecting this bearing to be the problem 
> child - bearing only has 33k miles on it.? I've had similar bearing 
> noise on launch on my winter car (Isuzu Amigo) and the problem was the 
> input shaft bearing.? What else should I be looking for, focused on, 
> as I continue to dismantle the trans?
>
> Of note:? the oil level in the trans dropped low enough (twice, 
> hanging?my head in shame) that the OD was dropping out and reengaging.
>
> ** triumphs at autox.team.net **
>
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs  http://www.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/ptegler at verizon.net

-- 
Paul Tegler
ptegler at verizon.net  www.teglerizer.com


From dconnitt at fuse.net  Sat Feb 18 06:22:49 2023
From: dconnitt at fuse.net (Dave Connitt)
Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2023 08:22:49 -0500
Subject: [TR] GT6 trans bearing noise on launch
In-Reply-To: <28ef22e6-da37-217e-0533-a839b93ebe78@verizon.net>
References: <28ef22e6-da37-217e-0533-a839b93ebe78@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <0A7013C0-8A6C-4359-9DD0-36E03CD626D8@fuse.net>

Hello Aribert,
How does the pilot bearing in the flywheel look?
Dave Connitt

Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 18, 2023, at 2:12 AM, Paul Tegler <ptegler at verizon.net> wrote:
> 
> ?having rebuilt at least 15+ Spit/GT6 boxes, I can say I've never heard a 'screech' as an issue with these boxes.
> You only need to be about 1/2-2/3 a qt low for the O/D to drop out (assuming a D -type here?)
> when you say 'launch' ...my minds eye reads 'hard dump from a stand still'.
> I'm hoping you're simply 'short-handing' starting off from a standstill.
> 
> If it's only in first gear, a very high load is being placed on the bush in the ass end of the crank which is only oiled bronze.
> If it's the tranny.... cold on the bench... you can chuck on a big 1/2" electric drill to spin up the tranny.  If anything... dry bearings created the 'screech' befor they became saturated in oil once the tranny started spinning. Even 'looow' oil... as long as the level was not below the layshaft bearings, (barely 1 qt left) all the bearings got oiled once spun up.  I'f you're tearing into it, replace all the bearings and synchros. Biggest effort will be finding goot synchros to mesh wit hthe various gears. You'll need more than the number need so you can mix and match and test enough that fit right.
> good luck.
> 
> ptegler
> 
>> On 2/17/2023 11:05 PM, aribert neumann wrote:
>> Greetings all:
>> 
>> My Spit bodied GT6 has made a bearing noise / screech (may be a bit severe of a word) on launch.  This noise lasts about half way thru 1st gear but beyond full clutch release.  I've pulled the trans and begun to disassemble.   The throw out bearing feels good.  The input shaft bearing feels good - I was expecting this bearing to be the problem child - bearing only has 33k miles on it.  I've had similar bearing noise on launch on my winter car (Isuzu Amigo) and the problem was the input shaft bearing.  What else should I be looking for, focused on, as I continue to dismantle the trans?
>> 
>> Of note:  the oil level in the trans dropped low enough (twice, hanging my head in shame) that the OD was dropping out and reengaging.
>> 
>> ** triumphs at autox.team.net **
>> 
>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs  http://www.team.net/archive
>> 
>> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/ptegler at verizon.net
> 
> -- 
> Paul Tegler
> ptegler at verizon.net  www.teglerizer.com
> 
> ** triumphs


From dconnitt at fuse.net  Sat Feb 18 06:22:49 2023
From: dconnitt at fuse.net (Dave Connitt)
Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2023 08:22:49 -0500
Subject: [TR] GT6 trans bearing noise on launch
In-Reply-To: <28ef22e6-da37-217e-0533-a839b93ebe78@verizon.net>
References: <28ef22e6-da37-217e-0533-a839b93ebe78@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <0A7013C0-8A6C-4359-9DD0-36E03CD626D8@fuse.net>

Hello Aribert,
How does the pilot bearing in the flywheel look?
Dave Connitt

Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 18, 2023, at 2:12 AM, Paul Tegler <ptegler at verizon.net> wrote:
> 
> ?having rebuilt at least 15+ Spit/GT6 boxes, I can say I've never heard a 'screech' as an issue with these boxes.
> You only need to be about 1/2-2/3 a qt low for the O/D to drop out (assuming a D -type here?)
> when you say 'launch' ...my minds eye reads 'hard dump from a stand still'.
> I'm hoping you're simply 'short-handing' starting off from a standstill.
> 
> If it's only in first gear, a very high load is being placed on the bush in the ass end of the crank which is only oiled bronze.
> If it's the tranny.... cold on the bench... you can chuck on a big 1/2" electric drill to spin up the tranny.  If anything... dry bearings created the 'screech' befor they became saturated in oil once the tranny started spinning. Even 'looow' oil... as long as the level was not below the layshaft bearings, (barely 1 qt left) all the bearings got oiled once spun up.  I'f you're tearing into it, replace all the bearings and synchros. Biggest effort will be finding goot synchros to mesh wit hthe various gears. You'll need more than the number need so you can mix and match and test enough that fit right.
> good luck.
> 
> ptegler
> 
>> On 2/17/2023 11:05 PM, aribert neumann wrote:
>> Greetings all:
>> 
>> My Spit bodied GT6 has made a bearing noise / screech (may be a bit severe of a word) on launch.  This noise lasts about half way thru 1st gear but beyond full clutch release.  I've pulled the trans and begun to disassemble.   The throw out bearing feels good.  The input shaft bearing feels good - I was expecting this bearing to be the problem child - bearing only has 33k miles on it.  I've had similar bearing noise on launch on my winter car (Isuzu Amigo) and the problem was the input shaft bearing.  What else should I be looking for, focused on, as I continue to dismantle the trans?
>> 
>> Of note:  the oil level in the trans dropped low enough (twice, hanging my head in shame) that the OD was dropping out and reengaging.
>> 
>> ** triumphs at autox.team.net **
>> 
>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs  http://www.team.net/archive
>> 
>> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/ptegler at verizon.net
> 
> -- 
> Paul Tegler
> ptegler at verizon.net  www.teglerizer.com
> 
> ** triumphs


From aribertn at gmail.com  Sun Feb 19 09:19:25 2023
From: aribertn at gmail.com (aribert neumann)
Date: Sun, 19 Feb 2023 11:19:25 -0500
Subject: [TR] GT6 trans bearing noise on launch
Message-ID: <CAGkVM28GBDFkihDoWVEXXyQ3+mf-6hvXcPxNnBtgDv-ig==0yg@mail.gmail.com>

Thank you all for responding.

Dave:
I have yet to look at the pilot bushing.  Because I have a 2.5L engine
mated to the GT6 gearbox, I have a custom sized pilot bushing.

ptegler:
TRans is already partially disassembled - too late to try to drive it with
a large drill.  No drag starts, by launch I am just referring to taking off
in first gear, frequently in traffic.  Noise only in first gear and
typically not the entire time in first gear.  Are you referring to the
bronze thrust washer on the laygear end or the crankshaft thrust washer in
your message?  I have a nonOD trans that I opened up a couple of days ago.
I got the trans out of a self serve salvage yard - it did not appear the
engine/trans had ever been separated.  Came with the original Laycock
pressure plate.   Synchro gaps in the non OD trans ranged from 0.033 up to
0.044 whereas my OD box ranged from 0.021 to 0.035

All:
And now for a bit of a sad story.  I dropped the laygear and removed the
input shaft on my squealing OD trans on Friday.  Saturday, I went to do the
same with an imalulate (wear wise) non OD trans I had.  I did not follow
the dismantle procedure and forgot to drop the laygear before pulling the
input shaft out.  An input shaft with a 4th gear that showed absolutely no
wear - I was planning on using that fourth gear in my OD box.  I yanked on
the slide hammer hard enough that I broke two of the little teeth off of
4th gear and chipped the laygear.
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From ptegler at verizon.net  Sun Feb 19 09:33:39 2023
From: ptegler at verizon.net (Paul Tegler)
Date: Sun, 19 Feb 2023 11:33:39 -0500
Subject: [TR] GT6 trans bearing noise on launch
In-Reply-To: <CAGkVM28GBDFkihDoWVEXXyQ3+mf-6hvXcPxNnBtgDv-ig==0yg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGkVM28GBDFkihDoWVEXXyQ3+mf-6hvXcPxNnBtgDv-ig==0yg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <82a0385e-e745-987d-3cea-85fd90930902@verizon.net>

the 'larger gaps' are a good thing. Less wear on the inner surface of 
the synchro.
Regardless it's how firm a grip the syncrho has on the gear with less 
pressure than it takes to splip the spring loaded balls during gear changes.
I was also talking the pilot bush in the crank.

ptegler

On 2/19/2023 11:19 AM, aribert neumann wrote:
> Thank you?all?for responding.
>
> Dave:
> I have yet to look at the pilot bushing.? Because I have a 2.5L engine 
> mated to the GT6 gearbox, I have a custom sized pilot bushing.
> ptegler:
> TRans is already partially disassembled - too late to try to drive it 
> with a large drill.? No drag starts, by launch I am just referring to 
> taking off in first gear, frequently in traffic.? Noise only in first 
> gear and typically not the entire time in first gear.? Are you 
> referring to the bronze thrust washer on the laygear end or the 
> crankshaft?thrust washer in your message?? I have a nonOD trans that I 
> opened up a couple of days ago.? I got the trans out of a self serve 
> salvage yard - it did not appear the engine/trans had ever been 
> separated.? Came with the original Laycock pressure plate.? ?Synchro 
> gaps in the non OD trans ranged from 0.033 up to 0.044 whereas my OD 
> box ranged from 0.021 to 0.035
>
> All:
> And now for a bit of a sad story.? I dropped the laygear and removed 
> the input shaft on my squealing OD trans on Friday.? Saturday, I went 
> to do the same with an imalulate (wear wise) non OD trans I had.? I 
> did not follow the dismantle procedure and forgot to drop the laygear 
> before pulling the input shaft out.? An input shaft with a 4th gear 
> that showed absolutely no wear - I was planning on using that fourth 
> gear in my OD box.? I yanked on the slide hammer hard enough that I 
> broke two of the little teeth off of 4th gear and chipped the laygear.
>
> ** triumphs at autox.team.net **
>
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs  http://www.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/ptegler at verizon.net

-- 
Paul Tegler
ptegler at verizon.net  www.teglerizer.com


From dconnitt at fuse.net  Sun Feb 19 09:45:08 2023
From: dconnitt at fuse.net (Dave Connitt)
Date: Sun, 19 Feb 2023 11:45:08 -0500
Subject: [TR] GT6 trans bearing noise on launch
In-Reply-To: <CAGkVM28GBDFkihDoWVEXXyQ3+mf-6hvXcPxNnBtgDv-ig==0yg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGkVM28GBDFkihDoWVEXXyQ3+mf-6hvXcPxNnBtgDv-ig==0yg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <DA48B9A3-59FA-4711-A039-B0ADE1032A35@fuse.net>

I was just thinking about that pilot bearing might be the culprit if the noise happens more often when starting out in first gear if that is the case. 
Dave Connitt

Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 19, 2023, at 11:31 AM, aribert neumann <aribertn at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> ?
> Thank you all for responding.  
> 
> Dave:
> I have yet to look at the pilot bushing.  Because I have a 2.5L engine mated to the GT6 gearbox, I have a custom sized pilot bushing. 
>  
> ptegler:
> TRans is already partially disassembled - too late to try to drive it with a large drill.  No drag starts, by launch I am just referring to taking off in first gear, frequently in traffic.  Noise only in first gear and typically not the entire time in first gear.  Are you referring to the bronze thrust washer on the laygear end or the crankshaft thrust washer in your message?  I have a nonOD trans that I opened up a couple of days ago.  I got the trans out of a self serve salvage yard - it did not appear the engine/trans had ever been separated.  Came with the original Laycock pressure plate.   Synchro gaps in the non OD trans ranged from 0.033 up to 0.044 whereas my OD box ranged from 0.021 to 0.035
> 
> All:
> And now for a bit of a sad story.  I dropped the laygear and removed the input shaft on my squealing OD trans on Friday.  Saturday, I went to do the same with an imalulate (wear wise) non OD trans I had.  I did not follow the dismantle procedure and forgot to drop the laygear before pulling the input shaft out.  An input shaft with a 4th gear that showed absolutely no wear - I was planning on using that fourth gear in my OD box.  I yanked on the slide hammer hard enough that I broke two of the little teeth off of 4th gear and chipped the laygear.
> ** triumphs at autox.team.net **
> 
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs  http://www.team.net/archive
> 
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/dconnitt at fuse.net


From tjwakeman at gmail.com  Sun Feb 19 14:34:26 2023
From: tjwakeman at gmail.com (TeriAnn J. Wakeman)
Date: Sun, 19 Feb 2023 13:34:26 -0800
Subject: [TR] Can you donate something to help keep my web sites live?
Message-ID: <4c97e297-a274-cf92-4ef9-77d18594d576@gmail.com>

URLs and web site hosting are not free. I'm basically out of money to 
keep the sites online and if my 13 year old 17 inch Mac Book Pro goes I 
cannot afford to replace it. If you have found my web sites helpful or 
entertaining I would appreciate a donation to help support them.

Thank you for your consideration
 ?? TeriAnn

Can you help Web site support on PayPal Fundraisers? Every little bit 
helps! https://www.paypal.com/pools/c/8RKE05E5Qf
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From jhassall at gmail.com  Sun Feb 19 17:47:03 2023
From: jhassall at gmail.com (J.C. Hassall)
Date: Sun, 19 Feb 2023 19:47:03 -0500
Subject: [TR] [Fot] Can you donate something to help keep my web sites
 live?
In-Reply-To: <4c97e297-a274-cf92-4ef9-77d18594d576@gmail.com>
References: <4c97e297-a274-cf92-4ef9-77d18594d576@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAO=iLWbKZLZNp_3w-6dceG89Myq3O-iG1rHhtugCbD5tZnNHPA@mail.gmail.com>

TeriAnn,
I've lost count of how many times I've referred to your Web pages,
especially the Webber info; thank you for sharing your knowledge with us.
My  donation should be in your account.  I'd say don't spend it all in one
place, but that's the point of your solicitation, isn't it?

Good luck

jim

On Sun, Feb 19, 2023 at 5:25 PM TeriAnn J. Wakeman via Fot <
fot at autox.team.net> wrote:

> URLs and web site hosting are not free. I'm basically out of money to keep
> the sites online and if my 13 year old 17 inch Mac Book Pro goes I cannot
> afford to replace it. If you have found my web sites helpful or
> entertaining I would appreciate a donation to help support them.
>
> Thank you for your consideration
>    TeriAnn
> Can you help Web site support on PayPal Fundraisers? Every little bit
> helps! https://www.paypal.com/pools/c/8RKE05E5Qf
> _______________________________________________
> fot at autox.team.net
>
> http://www.fot-racing.com
>
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
> Unsubscribe/Manage <http://www.team.net/pipermail/fotUnsubscribe/Manage>:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/jhassall at gmail.com
>
>
>

-- 
jim  W4BEA
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From tjwakeman at gmail.com  Sun Feb 19 20:19:59 2023
From: tjwakeman at gmail.com (TeriAnn J. Wakeman)
Date: Sun, 19 Feb 2023 19:19:59 -0800
Subject: [TR] [Fot] Can you donate something to help keep my web sites
 live?
In-Reply-To: <CAO=iLWbKZLZNp_3w-6dceG89Myq3O-iG1rHhtugCbD5tZnNHPA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4c97e297-a274-cf92-4ef9-77d18594d576@gmail.com>
 <CAO=iLWbKZLZNp_3w-6dceG89Myq3O-iG1rHhtugCbD5tZnNHPA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <9a18b610-c418-3bf3-d8c5-8cf6918f73c0@gmail.com>

On 2/19/23 4:47 PM, J.C. Hassall wrote:
> TeriAnn,
> I've lost count of how many times I've referred to your Web pages, 
> especially the Webber info; thank you for sharing your knowledge with 
> us.? My? donation should be in your account. I'd say don't spend it 
> all in one place, but that's the point of your solicitation, isn't it?

I just got charged a few hundred dollars for URL renewal plus my monthly 
internet connection fee. I want to put back in my fund for paying other 
bills. I have hosting renewal coming up and I would like to bank money 
for a replacement computer and software when my 13 year old Mac Book Pro 
finally goes belly up. I need a large screen so I can look at both html 
code and the layout at the same time so it is looking like a desktop Mac 
in the future.

I enjoy helping others and my web sites are my way of doing so. It is 
just that when renewals are due it means credit card debt and a couple 
months to pay it off. The amount they charge for internet connections is 
bad enough.

Anyway, thank you for your donation. Any amount helps keep the sites 
online and me looking for more things to add. I really need to sit down 
and write about TR2-4A crank harmonics and strategies for taming them.

I always hope people find my sites of use and am always gratified by 
positive feedback.

Take care,
 ?? TeriAnn

> On Sun, Feb 19, 2023 at 5:25 PM TeriAnn J. Wakeman via Fot 
> <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:
>
>     URLs and web site hosting are not free. I'm basically out of money
>     to keep the sites online and if my 13 year old 17 inch Mac Book
>     Pro goes I cannot afford to replace it. If you have found my web
>     sites helpful or entertaining I would appreciate a donation to
>     help support them.
>
>     Thank you for your consideration
>     ?? TeriAnn
>
>     Can you help Web site support on PayPal Fundraisers? Every little
>     bit helps! https://www.paypal.com/pools/c/8RKE05E5Qf
>     _______________________________________________
>     fot at autox.team.net
>
>     http://www.fot-racing.com
>
>     Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>     Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive
>     http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
>     Unsubscribe/Manage
>     <http://www.team.net/pipermail/fotUnsubscribe/Manage>:
>     http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/jhassall at gmail.com
>
>
>
>
> -- 
> jim W4BEA


-- 

Book - The Essential Guide to Overland Travel in the United States and 
Canada <http://overlandtravel.us>
2 years to write and 38 years of travel and camping to learn what to write

*Because the world beckons and life waits for no one*
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From aribertn at gmail.com  Tue Feb 21 12:25:04 2023
From: aribertn at gmail.com (aribert neumann)
Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2023 14:25:04 -0500
Subject: [TR] GT6 trans bearing noise on launch - more info and questions
Message-ID: <CAGkVM2_bH++VW3ZnD56aNOB2D=u_WT6_0_ftoV5_5tx8zGDPVg@mail.gmail.com>

I finished removing the main shaft and laygear from the trans yesterday.
 The laygear shaft (at the first gear end) had wear from the rollers.  Wear
was about half the length of the roller length and maybe 60 to 90 deg of
the shaft's circumference.  The opposite end of the laygear had been
reworked with a bronze bushing - no shaft wear. Could have been the noise.

The pilot bushing in the end of the crankshaft had 0.002 dimetral wear from
my design sketch from 2004. There was a taper in the first 1/4 inch of the
bushing (an additional 0.003 on top of the 0.002 inch).  I am going to
machine a new bushing.

The laygear from my OD trans has significant wear on the thrust surfaces -
the rest of the laygear appears OK.  About 0.004 on the mate to 4th gear
and about 0.012 on the small end - mating with 1st gear.  And measuring the
laygear end float I see 0.016 - the thrust washers do not appear to have
worn much.  I could reuse this layshaft with new thrust washers (hopefully
there is enough thickness otherwise I wouldd need to shim the new thrust
washers.

Or I could use the formerly pristine laygear from the non-OD parts trans
that I f'ed up on Saturday by chipping a couple of teeth.  There is about
0.100 inch out of 0.600 inch of functional tooth length missing.   I would
dress the edge of the breakout if I were to reuse this damaged laygear.  It
is 4th gear, so the gear does not see the same level of torque as first or
second gear.   *A question for anyone who has reused a significantly
chipped gear - what were your long term results?  *If the chip were only
half as much I would not bother to even ask the question, I'd install it
without a second thought.

Hopefully the images come thru - I have never tried to attach an image to a
posting on this list.
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From HDRider570 at att.net  Tue Feb 21 15:33:32 2023
From: HDRider570 at att.net (Q)
Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2023 14:33:32 -0800
Subject: [TR] GT6 trans bearing noise on launch -
References: <8b91c3b8-cb8a-b931-f220-236d51b353b7.ref@att.net>
Message-ID: <8b91c3b8-cb8a-b931-f220-236d51b353b7@att.net>

Interesting wear on the gear cluster end. I expect that it has worn 
through the (presumably) harden wear surface to the softer material 
underneath.? At a minimum I would fit a hardened shim to bring the 
surface level again.

Looks like odd surface marking on the inner solid bushing as well.? Is 
it just brass or is it oilite material?? They make a kit for the big TR 
gearbox so two bearings can be installed on each end of the gear 
cluster.? The problem would be to find a caged roller with a race that 
would fit (McMaster-Carr?).? You would need to turn the gear cluster to 
fit the outer diameter of the new bearing.? That is not an easy job 
either as the surface of the cluster is hardened to be a bearing race 
for the loose needle bearings.? Please note that if you are using loose 
bearings they come in packs of 50 but you only use 49 of them.

I would not use the chipped cluster.? Too much surface area is missing 
and the harden surface remaining may be detaching form the body.

There was a time when there were some counter shafts that were of 
inferior quality as well.? I don't know if that is still the? case but I 
certainly would not purchase parts from "The lowest bidder" regardless.

Your best bet would be to find a good replacement cluster but GT6 trans 
parts are few and far between.

Please note I am not a professional transmission mechanic, just lending 
my opinion based on personal Triumph experience over the years.


Edward Hamer

Petaluma CA


From aribertn at gmail.com  Sat Feb 25 11:34:25 2023
From: aribertn at gmail.com (aribert neumann)
Date: Sat, 25 Feb 2023 13:34:25 -0500
Subject: [TR] Original Laycock & Borg & Beck Pressure plate - VTR article
Message-ID: <CAGkVM2-tRrEGFvOiFD80QmFuXaBaJDfb--QKWTqp0724DryOEw@mail.gmail.com>

A Brent Kiser wrote a VTR article in the early 2000s, primarily on the
Laycock pressure plate as originally found on TR6 with a side discussion of
the Borg & Beck PP as originally fitted to some TR6 (also GT6).

Is he still part of the Triumph community?   If so, does anyone have his
contact info?  The yahoo e-mail address in the article is no longer
active.

I have some questions for him *or anyone else* that has some knowledge of
the original PP fitted to the TR6 & GT6.

My message to him:  *I've read your VTR article on the Laycock pressure
plate (several times). I realize your article is going on about 20 yrs
now.  Hopefully you still monitor this email address.*

*I acquired an original Borg & Beck pressure plate that I removed from a
'67 GT6.  The B&B pressure plate was a bit rusty (I was unable to
separate the trans from the engine because the clutch disc was lightly
rusted on the trans splines and rusted to the PP so I had to destroy the
bellhousing to gain access to the pressure plate).  I sent this rusty PP
off to Fort Wayne Clutch for rebuilding) essentially to reface the clutch
contact surface.  *

*Fort Wayne Clutch got back to me that they had concerns about the clamp
force being low.  They have a machine that measures two points of pressure
plate displacement force.  The low force was about 180 lbf and the high was
about 275 lbf.   Do you have any idea as to what the clamp forces on either
an original Borg & Beck or on a Laycock PP intended for a TR6/GT6 might
be? *

*I have a Spit bodied GT6 with a TR6 engine.  I have been using a Borg &
Beck PP intended for a Volvo 240.  I had an '83 Volvo 240 wagon in the
later '90s and bought a replacement PP.  In the PP box there was a note
that said for Triumph applications one needed to open up the 3 pilot holes
from 6mm to 0.250 inch.  I needed to remove the Triumph transmission long
before I needed to replace the Volvo clutch so I used the Volvo intended PP
in my Triumph.   The pedal force to actuate the clutch on my car is 30 lbf.*
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From aribertn at gmail.com  Sat Feb 25 11:57:40 2023
From: aribertn at gmail.com (aribert neumann)
Date: Sat, 25 Feb 2023 13:57:40 -0500
Subject: [TR] GT6 trans bearing noise on launch -
In-Reply-To: <mailman.9.1677092405.9026.triumphs@autox.team.net>
References: <mailman.9.1677092405.9026.triumphs@autox.team.net>
Message-ID: <CAGkVM28frc=AeLv4csDu-LKCpkj_QxBMDJCVpo8njMD_o+xa=A@mail.gmail.com>

Edward:  Thank you for your response.   I've been a bit late in responding
- ice storm on Wednesday, we are scheduled to have power back on by
Monday.

You raised a number of valid points that I had not considered.   I was
really hoping that there might be a consensus response that the chipped
layshaft would probably work.

From: Q <HDRider570 at att.net>
> Subject: Re: [TR] GT6 trans bearing noise on launch -
> Interesting wear on the gear cluster end. I expect that it has worn
> through the (presumably) harden wear surface to the softer material
> underneath.  At a minimum I would fit a hardened shim to bring the
> surface level again.
>
> Looks like odd surface marking on the inner solid bushing as well.  Is
> it just brass or is it oilite material?  They make a kit for the big TR
> gearbox so two bearings can be installed on each end of the gear
> cluster.  The problem would be to find a caged roller with a race that
> would fit (McMaster-Carr?).  You would need to turn the gear cluster to
> fit the outer diameter of the new bearing.  That is not an easy job
> either as the surface of the cluster is hardened to be a bearing race
> for the loose needle bearings.  Please note that if you are using loose
> bearings they come in packs of 50 but you only use 49 of them.
>
> I would not use the chipped cluster.  Too much surface area is missing
> and the harden surface remaining may be detaching form the body.
>
> There was a time when there were some counter shafts that were of
> inferior quality as well.  I don't know if that is still the  case but I
> certainly would not purchase parts from "The lowest bidder" regardless.
>
> Your best bet would be to find a good replacement cluster but GT6 trans
> parts are few and far between.
>
> Please note I am not a professional transmission mechanic, just lending
> my opinion based on personal Triumph experience over the years.
>
>
> Edward Hamer
>
> Petaluma CA
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Triumphs mailing list
> Triumphs at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs
>
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From triumphstag at gmail.com  Mon Feb 27 16:06:20 2023
From: triumphstag at gmail.com (Sujit Roy)
Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2023 15:06:20 -0800
Subject: [TR] Is this symptom I'm getting indicative of a bad front wheel
 bearing?
Message-ID: <CANLCLaFppdQev-QqtT0WSND97e-Ykvr5iuBUEcSzD9e_W+oBiw@mail.gmail.com>

I have a Stag and have checked and changed various components like bottom
ball joint and top shock mount, but am still experiencing a vibration,
through the steering wheel,  from the left front wheel only when I'm
turning left. The car had been fitted with all new poly bushes.
There is no vibration going straight or when turning right.
I plan to swap the wheel with my spare,  but can a bad bearing cause these
symptoms?
The hub rotates smoothly and there is no noise.

The TR6 uses a similar vertical link setup as the Stag. The hub
bearings are tapered.


Sujit

-- 
Sujit Roy
Cupertino, California

https://triumphstagblog.wordpress.com/
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From pethier7 at gmail.com  Mon Feb 27 16:48:40 2023
From: pethier7 at gmail.com (Philip Ethier)
Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2023 17:48:40 -0600
Subject: [TR] Is this symptom I'm getting indicative of a bad front
 wheel bearing?
In-Reply-To: <CANLCLaFppdQev-QqtT0WSND97e-Ykvr5iuBUEcSzD9e_W+oBiw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANLCLaFppdQev-QqtT0WSND97e-Ykvr5iuBUEcSzD9e_W+oBiw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAE16_w2f++NmTRToRdgy7RBU=HcON4pd2neofyvQ0Djen40UrQ@mail.gmail.com>

Don't mess with wheel bearings.  Get it checked out.  I lost a wheel on my
TR4 on the way home from the VTR in 2005.

On Mon, Feb 27, 2023 at 5:35?PM Sujit Roy <triumphstag at gmail.com> wrote:

> I have a Stag and have checked and changed various components like bottom
> ball joint and top shock mount, but am still experiencing a vibration,
> through the steering wheel,  from the left front wheel only when I'm
> turning left. The car had been fitted with all new poly bushes.
> There is no vibration going straight or when turning right.
> I plan to swap the wheel with my spare,  but can a bad bearing cause these
> symptoms?
> The hub rotates smoothly and there is no noise.
>
> The TR6 uses a similar vertical link setup as the Stag. The hub
> bearings are tapered.
>
>
> Sujit
>
> --
> Sujit Roy
> Cupertino, California
>
> https://triumphstagblog.wordpress.com/
>
> ** triumphs at autox.team.net **
>
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs
> http://www.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/pethier7 at gmail.com
>


-- 
Phil Ethier West Side Saint Paul Minnesota USA
1973 Triumph Stag LE22439UBW "uncle jack", Sapphire Blue
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From don.hiscock at gmail.com  Mon Feb 27 17:21:03 2023
From: don.hiscock at gmail.com (Don Hiscock)
Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2023 18:21:03 -0600
Subject: [TR] Is this symptom I'm getting indicative of a bad front
 wheel bearing?
In-Reply-To: <CAE16_w2f++NmTRToRdgy7RBU=HcON4pd2neofyvQ0Djen40UrQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANLCLaFppdQev-QqtT0WSND97e-Ykvr5iuBUEcSzD9e_W+oBiw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAE16_w2f++NmTRToRdgy7RBU=HcON4pd2neofyvQ0Djen40UrQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPK7CFAcC4CYUsSc9Wj+7fV--UVG4J2cuORxq0Sh=M5wC_9V+g@mail.gmail.com>

And I lost a front wheel on my TR3B at 70 mph on I-70 in 2014.  I've not
quite gotten over that episode yet,  Yes, don't fool around with wheel
bearings!

The root cause of my wheel-fell-off episode was a restorer who was more
used to MG bearing preloads than a TR3's non-preloaded bearings.  He read
this part of the Red Book service instructions as 101 lb?ft, not 10 lb?ft.
Yikes.
https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-7mHq3MK/0/07d96589/O/i-7mHq3MK.png
https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-8zPPqt3/0/1e459484/XL/i-8zPPqt3-XL.jpg
https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-wBTPGjg/0/5123f2e5/X3/i-wBTPGjg-X3.jpg

This happened in western Ohio, not too far from Macy's Garage as it turned
out.  And although Mark and Co. didn't do the work that led to the wheel
coming off, they know my car and were able to take it into their shop that
afternoon while I flew home.

So listen to the voice of two of us with scary experiences.  Take care with
wheel bearings.

On Mon, Feb 27, 2023 at 6:01 PM Philip Ethier <pethier7 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Don't mess with wheel bearings.  Get it checked out.  I lost a wheel on my
> TR4 on the way home from the VTR in 2005.
>
> On Mon, Feb 27, 2023 at 5:35?PM Sujit Roy <triumphstag at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I have a Stag and have checked and changed various components like bottom
>> ball joint and top shock mount, but am still experiencing a vibration,
>> through the steering wheel,  from the left front wheel only when I'm
>> turning left. The car had been fitted with all new poly bushes.
>> There is no vibration going straight or when turning right.
>> I plan to swap the wheel with my spare,  but can a bad bearing cause
>> these symptoms?
>> The hub rotates smoothly and there is no noise.
>>
>> The TR6 uses a similar vertical link setup as the Stag. The hub
>> bearings are tapered.
>>
>>
>> Sujit
>>
>> --
>> Sujit Roy
>> Cupertino, California
>>
>> https://triumphstagblog.wordpress.com/
>>
>> ** triumphs at autox.team.net **
>>
>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs
>> http://www.team.net/archive
>>
>> Unsubscribe/Manage:
>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/pethier7 at gmail.com
>>
>
>
> --
> Phil Ethier West Side Saint Paul Minnesota USA
> 1973 Triumph Stag LE22439UBW "uncle jack", Sapphire Blue
> ** triumphs at autox.team.net **
>
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs
> http://www.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/don.hiscock at gmail.com
>
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From aljlthomson at charter.net  Mon Feb 27 18:18:09 2023
From: aljlthomson at charter.net (Alex & Janet Thomson)
Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2023 20:18:09 -0500
Subject: [TR] Is this symptom I'm getting indicative of a bad front
 wheel bearing?
In-Reply-To: <CAPK7CFAcC4CYUsSc9Wj+7fV--UVG4J2cuORxq0Sh=M5wC_9V+g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANLCLaFppdQev-QqtT0WSND97e-Ykvr5iuBUEcSzD9e_W+oBiw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAE16_w2f++NmTRToRdgy7RBU=HcON4pd2neofyvQ0Djen40UrQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPK7CFAcC4CYUsSc9Wj+7fV--UVG4J2cuORxq0Sh=M5wC_9V+g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <007501d94b12$85575d10$90061730$@charter.net>

Wow! That definitely is a car with a broken leg! I?ve never done any work on an MG but I?ve never heard of a pre-load of 101 ft.-lbs. for front wheel bearings. All of our farm tractors, about 10, from a Farmall H to a Deere 4250, use the common specification of ?hand tighten to a slight drag, and then back off to the nearest castellation?. That?s what I have done on all of our cars and trucks over the years and it seems to work.

 

Can someone explain the 101 ft.-lb. spec or is that just a misprint?

 

Alex Thomson

 

From: Triumphs [mailto:triumphs-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Don Hiscock
Sent: Monday, February 27, 2023 7:21 PM
To: Philip Ethier
Cc: Triumphs
Subject: Re: [TR] Is this symptom I'm getting indicative of a bad front wheel bearing?

 

And I lost a front wheel on my TR3B at 70 mph on I-70 in 2014.  I've not quite gotten over that episode yet,  Yes, don't fool around with wheel bearings!

 

The root cause of my wheel-fell-off episode was a restorer who was more used to MG bearing preloads than a TR3's non-preloaded bearings.  He read this part of the Red Book service instructions as 101 lb?ft, not 10 lb?ft.  Yikes.

https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-7mHq3MK/0/07d96589/O/i-7mHq3MK.png

https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-8zPPqt3/0/1e459484/XL/i-8zPPqt3-XL.jpg

https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-wBTPGjg/0/5123f2e5/X3/i-wBTPGjg-X3.jpg

 

This happened in western Ohio, not too far from Macy's Garage as it turned out.  And although Mark and Co. didn't do the work that led to the wheel coming off, they know my car and were able to take it into their shop that afternoon while I flew home.

 

So listen to the voice of two of us with scary experiences.  Take care with wheel bearings.

 

On Mon, Feb 27, 2023 at 6:01 PM Philip Ethier <pethier7 at gmail.com> wrote:

Don't mess with wheel bearings.  Get it checked out.  I lost a wheel on my TR4 on the way home from the VTR in 2005.

 

On Mon, Feb 27, 2023 at 5:35?PM Sujit Roy <triumphstag at gmail.com> wrote:

I have a Stag and have checked and changed various components like bottom ball joint and top shock mount, but am still experiencing a vibration, through the steering wheel,  from the left front wheel only when I'm turning left. The car had been fitted with all new poly bushes.

There is no vibration going straight or when turning right. 

I plan to swap the wheel with my spare,  but can a bad bearing cause these symptoms?

The hub rotates smoothly and there is no noise.

 

The TR6 uses a similar vertical link setup as the Stag. The hub bearings are tapered.

 

 

Sujit 


 

-- 

Sujit Roy
Cupertino, California


https://triumphstagblog.wordpress.com/

** triumphs at autox.team.net **

Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs  http://www.team.net/archive

Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/pethier7 at gmail.com




 

-- 

Phil Ethier West Side Saint Paul Minnesota USA

1973 Triumph Stag LE22439UBW "uncle jack", Sapphire Blue

** triumphs at autox.team.net **

Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs  http://www.team.net/archive

Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/don.hiscock at gmail.com

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From don.hiscock at gmail.com  Mon Feb 27 18:28:41 2023
From: don.hiscock at gmail.com (Don Hiscock)
Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2023 19:28:41 -0600
Subject: [TR] Is this symptom I'm getting indicative of a bad front
 wheel bearing?
In-Reply-To: <007501d94b12$85575d10$90061730$@charter.net>
References: <CANLCLaFppdQev-QqtT0WSND97e-Ykvr5iuBUEcSzD9e_W+oBiw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAE16_w2f++NmTRToRdgy7RBU=HcON4pd2neofyvQ0Djen40UrQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPK7CFAcC4CYUsSc9Wj+7fV--UVG4J2cuORxq0Sh=M5wC_9V+g@mail.gmail.com>
 <007501d94b12$85575d10$90061730$@charter.net>
Message-ID: <CAPK7CFA7DsNBJ3kx1Yifrzqwd2=KWc1NGG2XhQDsVoSo1gyF+w@mail.gmail.com>

It's not a misprint, unless the missing space between the zero and the ell
count.  It's mainly dyslexic or too-fast reading, or perhaps being more
familiar with ft-lb convention than lb-ft that led him to see 101.

On Mon, Feb 27, 2023 at 7:18 PM Alex & Janet Thomson <
aljlthomson at charter.net> wrote:

> Wow! That definitely is a car with a broken leg! I?ve never done any work
> on an MG but I?ve never heard of a pre-load of 101 ft.-lbs. for front wheel
> bearings. All of our farm tractors, about 10, from a Farmall H to a Deere
> 4250, use the common specification of ?hand tighten to a slight drag, and
> then back off to the nearest castellation?. That?s what I have done on all
> of our cars and trucks over the years and it seems to work.
>
>
>
> Can someone explain the 101 ft.-lb. spec or is that just a misprint?
>
>
>
> Alex Thomson
>
>
>
> *From:* Triumphs [mailto:triumphs-bounces at autox.team.net] *On Behalf Of *Don
> Hiscock
> *Sent:* Monday, February 27, 2023 7:21 PM
> *To:* Philip Ethier
> *Cc:* Triumphs
> *Subject:* Re: [TR] Is this symptom I'm getting indicative of a bad front
> wheel bearing?
>
>
>
> And I lost a front wheel on my TR3B at 70 mph on I-70 in 2014.  I've not
> quite gotten over that episode yet,  Yes, don't fool around with wheel
> bearings!
>
>
>
> The root cause of my wheel-fell-off episode was a restorer who was more
> used to MG bearing preloads than a TR3's non-preloaded bearings.  He read
> this part of the Red Book service instructions as 101 lb?ft, not 10 lb?ft.
> Yikes.
>
> https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-7mHq3MK/0/07d96589/O/i-7mHq3MK.png
>
> https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-8zPPqt3/0/1e459484/XL/i-8zPPqt3-XL.jpg
>
> https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-wBTPGjg/0/5123f2e5/X3/i-wBTPGjg-X3.jpg
>
>
>
> This happened in western Ohio, not too far from Macy's Garage as it turned
> out.  And although Mark and Co. didn't do the work that led to the wheel
> coming off, they know my car and were able to take it into their shop that
> afternoon while I flew home.
>
>
>
> So listen to the voice of two of us with scary experiences.  Take care
> with wheel bearings.
>
>
>
> On Mon, Feb 27, 2023 at 6:01 PM Philip Ethier <pethier7 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Don't mess with wheel bearings.  Get it checked out.  I lost a wheel on my
> TR4 on the way home from the VTR in 2005.
>
>
>
> On Mon, Feb 27, 2023 at 5:35?PM Sujit Roy <triumphstag at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I have a Stag and have checked and changed various components like bottom
> ball joint and top shock mount, but am still experiencing a vibration,
> through the steering wheel,  from the left front wheel only when I'm
> turning left. The car had been fitted with all new poly bushes.
>
> There is no vibration going straight or when turning right.
>
> I plan to swap the wheel with my spare,  but can a bad bearing cause these
> symptoms?
>
> The hub rotates smoothly and there is no noise.
>
>
>
> The TR6 uses a similar vertical link setup as the Stag. The hub
> bearings are tapered.
>
>
>
>
>
> Sujit
>
>
>
> --
>
> Sujit Roy
> Cupertino, California
>
>
> https://triumphstagblog.wordpress.com/
>
> ** triumphs at autox.team.net **
>
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs
> http://www.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/pethier7 at gmail.com
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Phil Ethier West Side Saint Paul Minnesota USA
>
> 1973 Triumph Stag LE22439UBW "uncle jack", Sapphire Blue
>
> ** triumphs at autox.team.net **
>
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs
> http://www.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/don.hiscock at gmail.com
>
>
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From ptegler at verizon.net  Mon Feb 27 20:51:36 2023
From: ptegler at verizon.net (Paul Tegler)
Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2023 22:51:36 -0500
Subject: [TR] Is this symptom I'm getting indicative of a bad front
 wheel bearing?
In-Reply-To: <CAPK7CFA7DsNBJ3kx1Yifrzqwd2=KWc1NGG2XhQDsVoSo1gyF+w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANLCLaFppdQev-QqtT0WSND97e-Ykvr5iuBUEcSzD9e_W+oBiw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAE16_w2f++NmTRToRdgy7RBU=HcON4pd2neofyvQ0Djen40UrQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPK7CFAcC4CYUsSc9Wj+7fV--UVG4J2cuORxq0Sh=M5wC_9V+g@mail.gmail.com>
 <007501d94b12$85575d10$90061730$@charter.net>
 <CAPK7CFA7DsNBJ3kx1Yifrzqwd2=KWc1NGG2XhQDsVoSo1gyF+w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <30e94e10-c296-7dea-58c2-79483ba438cc@verizon.net>

MGs (B's anyway) have a spacer between the bearings on the stub axle. So 
yes, you crank them down

ptegler

On 2/27/2023 8:28 PM, Don Hiscock wrote:
> It's not a misprint, unless the missing space between the zero and the 
> ell count.? It's mainly dyslexic or too-fast reading, or perhaps being 
> more familiar with ft-lb convention than lb-ft that led him to see 101.
>
> On Mon, Feb 27, 2023 at 7:18 PM Alex & Janet Thomson 
> <aljlthomson at charter.net> wrote:
>
>     Wow! That definitely is a car with a broken leg! I?ve never done
>     any work on an MG but I?ve never heard of a pre-load of 101
>     ft.-lbs. for front wheel bearings. All of our farm tractors, about
>     10, from a Farmall H to a Deere 4250, use the common specification
>     of ?hand tighten to a slight drag, and then back off to the
>     nearest castellation?. That?s what I have done on all of our cars
>     and trucks over the years and it seems to work.
>
>     Can someone explain the 101 ft.-lb. spec or is that just a misprint?
>
>     Alex Thomson
>
>     *From:*Triumphs [mailto:triumphs-bounces at autox.team.net] *On
>     Behalf Of *Don Hiscock
>     *Sent:* Monday, February 27, 2023 7:21 PM
>     *To:* Philip Ethier
>     *Cc:* Triumphs
>     *Subject:* Re: [TR] Is this symptom I'm getting indicative of a
>     bad front wheel bearing?
>
>     And I lost a front wheel on my TR3B at 70 mph on I-70 in 2014.?
>     I've not quite gotten over that episode yet,? Yes, don't fool
>     around with wheel bearings!
>
>     The root cause of my wheel-fell-off episode was a restorer who was
>     more used to MG bearing preloads than a TR3's non-preloaded
>     bearings.? He read this part of the Red Book service instructions
>     as 101 lb?ft, not 10 lb?ft.? Yikes.
>
>     https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-7mHq3MK/0/07d96589/O/i-7mHq3MK.png
>
>     https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-8zPPqt3/0/1e459484/XL/i-8zPPqt3-XL.jpg
>
>     https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-wBTPGjg/0/5123f2e5/X3/i-wBTPGjg-X3.jpg
>
>     This happened in western Ohio, not too far from Macy's Garage as
>     it turned out. And although Mark and Co. didn't do the work that
>     led to the wheel coming off, they know my car and were able to
>     take it into their shop that afternoon while I flew home.
>
>     So listen to the voice of two of us with scary experiences.? Take
>     care with wheel bearings.
>
>     On Mon, Feb 27, 2023 at 6:01 PM Philip Ethier <pethier7 at gmail.com>
>     wrote:
>
>         Don't mess with?wheel bearings.? Get it checked out.? I lost a
>         wheel on my TR4 on the way home from the VTR in 2005.
>
>         On Mon, Feb 27, 2023 at 5:35?PM Sujit Roy
>         <triumphstag at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>             I have a Stag and have checked and changed various
>             components like bottom ball joint and top shock mount, but
>             am still experiencing a vibration, through the
>             steering?wheel, from the left front wheel only when I'm
>             turning left. The car had been fitted with all new poly
>             bushes.
>
>             There is no vibration going straight or when turning right.
>
>             I plan to swap the wheel with my spare,? but can a bad
>             bearing cause these symptoms?
>
>             The hub rotates smoothly and there is no noise.
>
>             The TR6 uses a similar vertical link setup as the Stag.
>             The hub bearings?are tapered.
>
>             Sujit
>
>             -- 
>
>             Sujit Roy
>             Cupertino, California
>
>
>             https://triumphstagblog.wordpress.com/
>
>             ** triumphs at autox.team.net **
>
>             Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>             Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs
>             http://www.team.net/archive
>
>             Unsubscribe/Manage:
>             http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/pethier7 at gmail.com
>
>
>         -- 
>
>         Phil Ethier West Side Saint Paul Minnesota USA
>
>         1973 Triumph Stag LE22439UBW "uncle jack", Sapphire Blue
>
>         ** triumphs at autox.team.net **
>
>         Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>         Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs
>         <http://wwwteam.net/pipermail/triumphs>
>         http://www.team.net/archive
>
>         Unsubscribe/Manage:
>         http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/don.hiscock at gmail.com
>
>
> **triumphs at autox.team.net  **
>
> Donate:http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive:http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs   http://www.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage:http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/ptegler at verizon.net

-- 
Paul Tegler
ptegler at verizon.net   www.teglerizer.com
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From ptegler at verizon.net  Mon Feb 27 20:53:28 2023
From: ptegler at verizon.net (Paul Tegler)
Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2023 22:53:28 -0500
Subject: [TR] Is this symptom I'm getting indicative of a bad front
 wheel bearing?
In-Reply-To: <007501d94b12$85575d10$90061730$@charter.net>
References: <CANLCLaFppdQev-QqtT0WSND97e-Ykvr5iuBUEcSzD9e_W+oBiw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAE16_w2f++NmTRToRdgy7RBU=HcON4pd2neofyvQ0Djen40UrQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPK7CFAcC4CYUsSc9Wj+7fV--UVG4J2cuORxq0Sh=M5wC_9V+g@mail.gmail.com>
 <007501d94b12$85575d10$90061730$@charter.net>
Message-ID: <92d939e6-8f8b-cc41-19c8-f503440e9e91@verizon.net>

really lucky it didn't rip the whole fender off

ptegler


On 2/27/2023 8:18 PM, Alex & Janet Thomson wrote:
>
> Wow! That definitely is a car with a broken leg! I?ve never done any 
> work on an MG but I?ve never heard of a pre-load of 101 ft.-lbs. for 
> front wheel bearings. All of our farm tractors, about 10, from a 
> Farmall H to a Deere 4250, use the common specification of ?hand 
> tighten to a slight drag, and then back off to the nearest 
> castellation?. That?s what I have done on all of our cars and trucks 
> over the years and it seems to work.
>
> Can someone explain the 101 ft.-lb. spec or is that just a misprint?
>
> Alex Thomson
>
> *From:*Triumphs [mailto:triumphs-bounces at autox.team.net] *On Behalf Of 
> *Don Hiscock
> *Sent:* Monday, February 27, 2023 7:21 PM
> *To:* Philip Ethier
> *Cc:* Triumphs
> *Subject:* Re: [TR] Is this symptom I'm getting indicative of a bad 
> front wheel bearing?
>
> And I lost a front wheel on my TR3B at 70 mph on I-70 in 2014.? I've 
> not quite gotten over that episode yet,? Yes, don't fool around with 
> wheel bearings!
>
> The root cause of my wheel-fell-off episode was a restorer who was 
> more used to MG bearing preloads than a TR3's non-preloaded bearings.? 
> He read this part of the Red Book service instructions as 101 lb?ft, 
> not 10 lb?ft.? Yikes.
>
> https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-7mHq3MK/0/07d96589/O/i-7mHq3MKpng 
> <https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-7mHq3MK/0/07d96589/O/i-7mHq3MK.png>
>
> https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-8zPPqt3/0/1e459484/XL/i-8zPPqt3-XL.jpg
>
> https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-wBTPGjg/0/5123f2e5/X3/i-wBTPGjg-X3.jpg
>
> This happened in western Ohio, not too far from Macy's Garage as it 
> turned out.? And although Mark and Co. didn't do the work that led to 
> the wheel coming off, they know my car and were able to take it into 
> their shop that afternoon while I flew home.
>
> So listen to the voice of two of us with scary experiences.? Take care 
> with wheel bearings.
>
> On Mon, Feb 27, 2023 at 6:01 PM Philip Ethier <pethier7 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>     Don't mess with?wheel bearings. Get it checked out.? I lost a
>     wheel on my TR4 on the way home from the VTR in 2005.
>
>     On Mon, Feb 27, 2023 at 5:35?PM Sujit Roy <triumphstag at gmail.com>
>     wrote:
>
>         I have a Stag and have checked and changed various components
>         like bottom ball joint and top shock mount, but am still
>         experiencing a vibration, through the steering?wheel,? from
>         the left front wheel only when I'm turning left. The car had
>         been fitted with all new poly bushes.
>
>         There is no vibration going straight or when turning right.
>
>         I plan to swap the wheel with my spare,? but can a bad bearing
>         cause these symptoms?
>
>         The hub rotates smoothly and there is no noise.
>
>         The TR6 uses a similar vertical link setup as the Stag. The
>         hub bearings?are tapered.
>
>         Sujit
>
>         -- 
>
>         Sujit Roy
>         Cupertino, California
>
>
>         https://triumphstagblog.wordpress.com/
>
>         ** triumphs at autox.team.net **
>
>         Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>         Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs
>         http://www.team.net/archive
>
>         Unsubscribe/Manage:
>         http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/pethier7 at gmail.com
>
>
>     -- 
>
>     Phil Ethier West Side Saint Paul Minnesota USA
>
>     1973 Triumph Stag LE22439UBW "uncle jack", Sapphire Blue
>
>     ** triumphs at autox.team.net **
>
>     Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>     Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs
>     http://www.team.net/archive
>
>     Unsubscribe/Manage:
>     http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/don.hiscock at gmail.com
>
>
> **triumphs at autox.team.net  **
>
> Donate:http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive:http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs   http://www.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage:http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/ptegler at verizon.net

-- 
Paul Tegler
ptegler at verizon.net   www.teglerizer.com
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From ronald.olds at mchsi.com  Tue Feb 28 05:09:28 2023
From: ronald.olds at mchsi.com (ronald.olds at mchsi.com)
Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2023 07:09:28 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [TR] Is this symptom I'm getting indicative of a bad front
 wheel bearing?
In-Reply-To: <CAPK7CFAcC4CYUsSc9Wj+7fV--UVG4J2cuORxq0Sh=M5wC_9V+g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANLCLaFppdQev-QqtT0WSND97e-Ykvr5iuBUEcSzD9e_W+oBiw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAE16_w2f++NmTRToRdgy7RBU=HcON4pd2neofyvQ0Djen40UrQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPK7CFAcC4CYUsSc9Wj+7fV--UVG4J2cuORxq0Sh=M5wC_9V+g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1453034396.229171929.1677586168096.JavaMail.zimbra@mchsi.com>

I had a similar situation with my TR3 in 1972. The studs holding on the wire wheel adapter broke. I head a bump and then the tire rolled past me going down the road.

Ronald Olds

----- Original Message -----
From: Don Hiscock &lt;don.hiscock at gmail.com&gt;
To: Philip Ethier &lt;pethier7 at gmail.com&gt;
Cc: Triumphs &lt;triumphs at autox.team.net&gt;
Sent: Mon, 27 Feb 2023 19:21:03 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: [TR] Is this symptom I&#039;m getting indicative of a bad front wheel bearing?

And I lost a front wheel on my TR3B at 70 mph on I-70 in 2014.  I&#039;ve not
quite gotten over that episode yet,  Yes, don&#039;t fool around with wheel
bearings!

The root cause of my wheel-fell-off episode was a restorer who was more
used to MG bearing preloads than a TR3&#039;s non-preloaded bearings.  He read
this part of the Red Book service instructions as 101 lb?ft, not 10 lb?ft.
Yikes.
https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-7mHq3MK/0/07d96589/O/i-7mHq3MK.png
https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-8zPPqt3/0/1e459484/XL/i-8zPPqt3-XL.jpg
https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-wBTPGjg/0/5123f2e5/X3/i-wBTPGjg-X3.jpg

This happened in western Ohio, not too far from Macy&#039;s Garage as it turned
out.  And although Mark and Co. didn&#039;t do the work that led to the wheel
coming off, they know my car and were able to take it into their shop that
afternoon while I flew home.

So listen to the voice of two of us with scary experiences.  Take care with
wheel bearings.

On Mon, Feb 27, 2023 at 6:01 PM Philip Ethier &lt;pethier7 at gmail.com&gt; wrote:

&gt; Don&#039;t mess with wheel bearings.  Get it checked out.  I lost a wheel on my
&gt; TR4 on the way home from the VTR in 2005.
&gt;
&gt; On Mon, Feb 27, 2023 at 5:35?PM Sujit Roy &lt;triumphstag at gmail.com&gt; wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; I have a Stag and have checked and changed various components like bottom
&gt;&gt; ball joint and top shock mount, but am still experiencing a vibration,
&gt;&gt; through the steering wheel,  from the left front wheel only when I&#039;m
&gt;&gt; turning left. The car had been fitted with all new poly bushes.
&gt;&gt; There is no vibration going straight or when turning right.
&gt;&gt; I plan to swap the wheel with my spare,  but can a bad bearing cause
&gt;&gt; these symptoms?
&gt;&gt; The hub rotates smoothly and there is no noise.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; The TR6 uses a similar vertical link setup as the Stag. The hub
&gt;&gt; bearings are tapered.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Sujit
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; --
&gt;&gt; Sujit Roy
&gt;&gt; Cupertino, California
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; https://triumphstagblog.wordpress.com/
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; ** triumphs at autox.team.net **
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
&gt;&gt; Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs
&gt;&gt; http://www.team.net/archive
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Unsubscribe/Manage:
&gt;&gt; http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/pethier7 at gmail.com
&gt;&gt;
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; --
&gt; Phil Ethier West Side Saint Paul Minnesota USA
&gt; 1973 Triumph Stag LE22439UBW &#034;uncle jack&#034;, Sapphire Blue
&gt; ** triumphs at autox.team.net **
&gt;
&gt; Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
&gt; Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs
&gt; http://www.team.net/archive
&gt;
&gt; Unsubscribe/Manage:
&gt; http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/don.hiscock at gmail.com
&gt;


From dave1massey at cs.com  Tue Feb 28 06:35:54 2023
From: dave1massey at cs.com (DAVID MASSEY)
Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2023 13:35:54 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [TR] Is this symptom I'm getting indicative of a bad front
 wheel bearing?
In-Reply-To: <CAPK7CFA7DsNBJ3kx1Yifrzqwd2=KWc1NGG2XhQDsVoSo1gyF+w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANLCLaFppdQev-QqtT0WSND97e-Ykvr5iuBUEcSzD9e_W+oBiw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAE16_w2f++NmTRToRdgy7RBU=HcON4pd2neofyvQ0Djen40UrQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPK7CFAcC4CYUsSc9Wj+7fV--UVG4J2cuORxq0Sh=M5wC_9V+g@mail.gmail.com>
 <007501d94b12$85575d10$90061730$@charter.net>
 <CAPK7CFA7DsNBJ3kx1Yifrzqwd2=KWc1NGG2XhQDsVoSo1gyF+w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1907341679.2108090.1677591354069@mail.yahoo.com>

 Still, 101???? Not 100?? Nobody lists a torque setting to +/- 1%? Especially back in the day.? With the old torsion-beam torque wrenches with a linear scale you're lucky to get +/- 5 lb-ft.
 
Dave 


 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Don Hiscock <don.hiscock at gmail.com>
To: Alex & Janet Thomson <aljlthomson at charter.net>
Cc: Triumphs <triumphs at autox.team.net>
Sent: Mon, Feb 27, 2023 7:28 pm
Subject: Re: [TR] Is this symptom I'm getting indicative of a bad front wheel bearing?

It's not a misprint, unless the missing space between the zero and the ell count.? It's mainly dyslexic or too-fast reading, or perhaps being more familiar with ft-lb convention than lb-ft that led him to see 101.
On Mon, Feb 27, 2023 at 7:18 PM Alex & Janet Thomson <aljlthomson at charter.net> wrote:

Wow! That definitely is a car with a broken leg! I?ve never done any work on an MG but I?ve never heard of a pre-load of 101 ft.-lbs. for front wheel bearings. All of our farm tractors, about 10, from a Farmall H to a Deere 4250, use the common specification of ?hand tighten to a slight drag, and then back off to the nearest castellation?. That?s what I have done on all of our cars and trucks over the years and it seems to work.?Can someone explain the 101 ft.-lb. spec or is that just a misprint??Alex Thomson?From: Triumphs [mailto:triumphs-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Don Hiscock
Sent: Monday, February 27, 2023 7:21 PM
To: Philip Ethier
Cc: Triumphs
Subject: Re: [TR] Is this symptom I'm getting indicative of a bad front wheel bearing??And I lost a front wheel on my TR3B at 70 mph on I-70 in 2014.? I've not quite gotten over that episode yet,? Yes, don't fool around with wheel bearings!?The root cause of my wheel-fell-off episode was a restorer who was more used to MG bearing preloads than a TR3's non-preloaded bearings.? He read this part of the Red Book service instructions as 101 lb?ft, not 10 lb?ft.? Yikes.https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-7mHq3MK/0/07d96589/O/i-7mHq3MK.pnghttps://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-8zPPqt3/0/1e459484/XL/i-8zPPqt3-XL.jpghttps://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-wBTPGjg/0/5123f2e5/X3/i-wBTPGjg-X3.jpg?This happened in western Ohio, not too far from Macy's Garage as it turned out.? And although Mark and Co. didn't do the work that led to the wheel coming off, they know my car and were able to take it into their shop that afternoon while I flew home.?So listen to the voice of two of us with scary experiences.? Take care with wheel bearings.?On Mon, Feb 27, 2023 at 6:01 PM Philip Ethier <pethier7 at gmail.com> wrote:
Don't mess with?wheel bearings.? Get it checked out.? I lost a wheel on my TR4 on the way home from the VTR in 2005.?On Mon, Feb 27, 2023 at 5:35?PM Sujit Roy <triumphstag at gmail.com> wrote:
I have a Stag and have checked and changed various components like bottom ball joint and top shock mount, but am still experiencing a vibration, through the steering?wheel,? from the left front wheel only when I'm turning left. The car had been fitted with all new poly bushes.There is no vibration going straight or when turning right.?I plan to swap the wheel with my spare,? but can a bad bearing cause these symptoms?The hub rotates smoothly and there is no noise.?The TR6 uses a similar vertical link setup as the Stag. The hub bearings?are tapered.??Sujit?
?-- Sujit Roy
Cupertino, California
https://triumphstagblog.wordpress.com/** triumphs at autox.team.net **

Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs? http://www.team.net/archive

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?-- Phil Ethier West Side Saint Paul Minnesota USA1973 Triumph Stag LE22439UBW "uncle jack", Sapphire Blue** triumphs at autox.team.net **

Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs? http://www.team.net/archive

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From don.hiscock at gmail.com  Tue Feb 28 06:40:19 2023
From: don.hiscock at gmail.com (Don Hiscock)
Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2023 07:40:19 -0600
Subject: [TR] Is this symptom I'm getting indicative of a bad front
 wheel bearing?
In-Reply-To: <1907341679.2108090.1677591354069@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <CANLCLaFppdQev-QqtT0WSND97e-Ykvr5iuBUEcSzD9e_W+oBiw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAE16_w2f++NmTRToRdgy7RBU=HcON4pd2neofyvQ0Djen40UrQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPK7CFAcC4CYUsSc9Wj+7fV--UVG4J2cuORxq0Sh=M5wC_9V+g@mail.gmail.com>
 <007501d94b12$85575d10$90061730$@charter.net>
 <CAPK7CFA7DsNBJ3kx1Yifrzqwd2=KWc1NGG2XhQDsVoSo1gyF+w@mail.gmail.com>
 <1907341679.2108090.1677591354069@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CAPK7CFBg5QpA+RgMjd3qNP+yKqv3v7CMLj-j0jxuYr+Wk6bVnQ@mail.gmail.com>

Yeah, I know...

On Tue, Feb 28, 2023 at 7:35 AM DAVID MASSEY <dave1massey at cs.com> wrote:

> Still, 101???  Not 100?  Nobody lists a torque setting to +/- 1%
> Especially back in the day.  With the old torsion-beam torque wrenches with
> a linear scale you're lucky to get +/- 5 lb-ft.
>
> Dave
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Don Hiscock <don.hiscock at gmail.com>
> To: Alex & Janet Thomson <aljlthomson at charter.net>
> Cc: Triumphs <triumphs at autox.team.net>
> Sent: Mon, Feb 27, 2023 7:28 pm
> Subject: Re: [TR] Is this symptom I'm getting indicative of a bad front
> wheel bearing?
>
> It's not a misprint, unless the missing space between the zero and the ell
> count.  It's mainly dyslexic or too-fast reading, or perhaps being more
> familiar with ft-lb convention than lb-ft that led him to see 101.
>
> On Mon, Feb 27, 2023 at 7:18 PM Alex & Janet Thomson <
> aljlthomson at charter.net> wrote:
>
> Wow! That definitely is a car with a broken leg! I?ve never done any work
> on an MG but I?ve never heard of a pre-load of 101 ft.-lbs. for front wheel
> bearings. All of our farm tractors, about 10, from a Farmall H to a Deere
> 4250, use the common specification of ?hand tighten to a slight drag, and
> then back off to the nearest castellation?. That?s what I have done on all
> of our cars and trucks over the years and it seems to work.
>
> Can someone explain the 101 ft.-lb. spec or is that just a misprint?
>
> Alex Thomson
>
> *From:* Triumphs [mailto:triumphs-bounces at autox.team.net] *On Behalf Of *Don
> Hiscock
> *Sent:* Monday, February 27, 2023 7:21 PM
> *To:* Philip Ethier
> *Cc:* Triumphs
> *Subject:* Re: [TR] Is this symptom I'm getting indicative of a bad front
> wheel bearing?
>
> And I lost a front wheel on my TR3B at 70 mph on I-70 in 2014.  I've not
> quite gotten over that episode yet,  Yes, don't fool around with wheel
> bearings!
>
> The root cause of my wheel-fell-off episode was a restorer who was more
> used to MG bearing preloads than a TR3's non-preloaded bearings.  He read
> this part of the Red Book service instructions as 101 lb?ft, not 10 lb?ft.
> Yikes.
> https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-7mHq3MK/0/07d96589/O/i-7mHq3MK.png
> https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-8zPPqt3/0/1e459484/XL/i-8zPPqt3-XL.jpg
> https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-wBTPGjg/0/5123f2e5/X3/i-wBTPGjg-X3.jpg
>
> This happened in western Ohio, not too far from Macy's Garage as it turned
> out.  And although Mark and Co. didn't do the work that led to the wheel
> coming off, they know my car and were able to take it into their shop that
> afternoon while I flew home.
>
> So listen to the voice of two of us with scary experiences.  Take care
> with wheel bearings.
>
> On Mon, Feb 27, 2023 at 6:01 PM Philip Ethier <pethier7 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Don't mess with wheel bearings.  Get it checked out.  I lost a wheel on my
> TR4 on the way home from the VTR in 2005.
>
> On Mon, Feb 27, 2023 at 5:35?PM Sujit Roy <triumphstag at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I have a Stag and have checked and changed various components like bottom
> ball joint and top shock mount, but am still experiencing a vibration,
> through the steering wheel,  from the left front wheel only when I'm
> turning left. The car had been fitted with all new poly bushes.
> There is no vibration going straight or when turning right.
> I plan to swap the wheel with my spare,  but can a bad bearing cause these
> symptoms?
> The hub rotates smoothly and there is no noise.
>
> The TR6 uses a similar vertical link setup as the Stag. The hub
> bearings are tapered.
>
>
> Sujit
>
> --
> Sujit Roy
> Cupertino, California
>
> https://triumphstagblog.wordpress.com/
> ** triumphs at autox.team.net **
>
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs
> http://www.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/pethier7 at gmail.com
>
>
>
> --
> Phil Ethier West Side Saint Paul Minnesota USA
> 1973 Triumph Stag LE22439UBW "uncle jack", Sapphire Blue
> ** triumphs at autox.team.net **
>
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs
> http://www.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/don.hiscock at gmail.com
>
> ** triumphs at autox.team.net **
>
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs
> http://www.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/dave1massey at cs.com
>
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From dave1massey at cs.com  Tue Feb 28 07:06:58 2023
From: dave1massey at cs.com (DAVID MASSEY)
Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2023 14:06:58 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [TR] Is this symptom I'm getting indicative of a bad front
 wheel bearing?
In-Reply-To: <CANLCLaFppdQev-QqtT0WSND97e-Ykvr5iuBUEcSzD9e_W+oBiw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANLCLaFppdQev-QqtT0WSND97e-Ykvr5iuBUEcSzD9e_W+oBiw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <424009623.2113885.1677593218392@mail.yahoo.com>

 When I think vibration I think warped rotors.? It may be that the wheel bearings are loose enough that vibration only appears when the wheel is forced into one of the pads in a left turn.? Otherwise the vibration may be sufficiently minor that the power steering suppresses it to the point that you don't feel it.? 

A bent wheel may also be the culprit.? 

Lots of potential sources to check out. ? 
 
Dave 


 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Sujit Roy <triumphstag at gmail.com>
To: Triumphs <triumphs at autox.team.net>
Sent: Mon, Feb 27, 2023 5:06 pm
Subject: [TR] Is this symptom I'm getting indicative of a bad front wheel bearing?

I have a Stag and have checked and changed various components like bottom ball joint and top shock mount, but am still experiencing a vibration, through the steering?wheel,? from the left front wheel only when I'm turning left. The car had been fitted with all new poly bushes.There is no vibration going straight or when turning right.?I plan to swap the wheel with my spare,? but can a bad bearing cause these symptoms?The hub rotates smoothly and there is no noise.
The TR6 uses a similar vertical link setup as the Stag. The hub bearings?are tapered.

Sujit?

-- 
Sujit Roy
Cupertino, California
https://triumphstagblog.wordpress.com/

** triumphs at autox.team.net **

Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs  http://www.team.net/archive

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From aljlthomson at charter.net  Tue Feb 28 07:34:58 2023
From: aljlthomson at charter.net (Alex & Janet Thomson)
Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2023 09:34:58 -0500
Subject: [TR] Is this symptom I'm getting indicative of a bad front
 wheel bearing?
In-Reply-To: <CAPK7CFBg5QpA+RgMjd3qNP+yKqv3v7CMLj-j0jxuYr+Wk6bVnQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANLCLaFppdQev-QqtT0WSND97e-Ykvr5iuBUEcSzD9e_W+oBiw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAE16_w2f++NmTRToRdgy7RBU=HcON4pd2neofyvQ0Djen40UrQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPK7CFAcC4CYUsSc9Wj+7fV--UVG4J2cuORxq0Sh=M5wC_9V+g@mail.gmail.com>
 <007501d94b12$85575d10$90061730$@charter.net>
 <CAPK7CFA7DsNBJ3kx1Yifrzqwd2=KWc1NGG2XhQDsVoSo1gyF+w@mail.gmail.com>
 <1907341679.2108090.1677591354069@mail.yahoo.com>
 <CAPK7CFBg5QpA+RgMjd3qNP+yKqv3v7CMLj-j0jxuYr+Wk6bVnQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <003f01d94b81$d594e670$80beb350$@charter.net>

I didn?t know that MGs used a spacer sleeve and shims for adjustment. How fun would that be when doing wheel bearing service on all of my farm equipment. Let?s see ? 8 tractors, 7 four-wheel hay wagons, 3 balers, four hay rakes, and the list goes on?

 

Alex Thomson

?73 TR6

 

From: Don Hiscock [mailto:don.hiscock at gmail.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2023 8:40 AM
To: DAVID MASSEY
Cc: aljlthomson at charter.net; triumphs at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [TR] Is this symptom I'm getting indicative of a bad front wheel bearing?

 

Yeah, I know...

 

On Tue, Feb 28, 2023 at 7:35 AM DAVID MASSEY <dave1massey at cs.com> wrote:

Still, 101???  Not 100?  Nobody lists a torque setting to +/- 1%  Especially back in the day.  With the old torsion-beam torque wrenches with a linear scale you're lucky to get +/- 5 lb-ft.

 

Dave 

 

 

 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Don Hiscock <don.hiscock at gmail.com>
To: Alex & Janet Thomson <aljlthomson at charter.net>
Cc: Triumphs <triumphs at autox.team.net>
Sent: Mon, Feb 27, 2023 7:28 pm
Subject: Re: [TR] Is this symptom I'm getting indicative of a bad front wheel bearing?

It's not a misprint, unless the missing space between the zero and the ell count.  It's mainly dyslexic or too-fast reading, or perhaps being more familiar with ft-lb convention than lb-ft that led him to see 101.

 

On Mon, Feb 27, 2023 at 7:18 PM Alex & Janet Thomson <aljlthomson at charter.net> wrote:

Wow! That definitely is a car with a broken leg! I?ve never done any work on an MG but I?ve never heard of a pre-load of 101 ft.-lbs. for front wheel bearings. All of our farm tractors, about 10, from a Farmall H to a Deere 4250, use the common specification of ?hand tighten to a slight drag, and then back off to the nearest castellation?. That?s what I have done on all of our cars and trucks over the years and it seems to work.

 

Can someone explain the 101 ft.-lb. spec or is that just a misprint?

 

Alex Thomson

 

From: Triumphs [mailto:triumphs-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Don Hiscock
Sent: Monday, February 27, 2023 7:21 PM
To: Philip Ethier
Cc: Triumphs
Subject: Re: [TR] Is this symptom I'm getting indicative of a bad front wheel bearing?

 

And I lost a front wheel on my TR3B at 70 mph on I-70 in 2014.  I've not quite gotten over that episode yet,  Yes, don't fool around with wheel bearings!

 

The root cause of my wheel-fell-off episode was a restorer who was more used to MG bearing preloads than a TR3's non-preloaded bearings.  He read this part of the Red Book service instructions as 101 lb?ft, not 10 lb?ft.  Yikes.

https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-7mHq3MK/0/07d96589/O/i-7mHq3MK.png

https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-8zPPqt3/0/1e459484/XL/i-8zPPqt3-XL.jpg

https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-wBTPGjg/0/5123f2e5/X3/i-wBTPGjg-X3.jpg

 

This happened in western Ohio, not too far from Macy's Garage as it turned out.  And although Mark and Co. didn't do the work that led to the wheel coming off, they know my car and were able to take it into their shop that afternoon while I flew home.

 

So listen to the voice of two of us with scary experiences.  Take care with wheel bearings.

 

On Mon, Feb 27, 2023 at 6:01 PM Philip Ethier <pethier7 at gmail.com> wrote:

Don't mess with wheel bearings.  Get it checked out.  I lost a wheel on my TR4 on the way home from the VTR in 2005.

 

On Mon, Feb 27, 2023 at 5:35?PM Sujit Roy <triumphstag at gmail.com> wrote:

I have a Stag and have checked and changed various components like bottom ball joint and top shock mount, but am still experiencing a vibration, through the steering wheel,  from the left front wheel only when I'm turning left. The car had been fitted with all new poly bushes.

There is no vibration going straight or when turning right. 

I plan to swap the wheel with my spare,  but can a bad bearing cause these symptoms?

The hub rotates smoothly and there is no noise.

 

The TR6 uses a similar vertical link setup as the Stag. The hub bearings are tapered.

 

 

Sujit 


 

-- 

Sujit Roy
Cupertino, California


https://triumphstagblog.wordpress.com/

** triumphs at autox.team.net **

Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs  http://www.team.net/archive

Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/pethier7 at gmail.com




 

-- 

Phil Ethier West Side Saint Paul Minnesota USA

1973 Triumph Stag LE22439UBW "uncle jack", Sapphire Blue

** triumphs at autox.team.net **

Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs  http://www.team.net/archive

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Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs  <http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs> http://www.team.net/archive

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From triumphstag at gmail.com  Tue Feb 28 09:33:13 2023
From: triumphstag at gmail.com (Sujit Roy)
Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2023 08:33:13 -0800
Subject: [TR] Is this symptom I'm getting indicative of a bad front
 wheel bearing?
In-Reply-To: <003f01d94b81$d594e670$80beb350$@charter.net>
References: <CANLCLaFppdQev-QqtT0WSND97e-Ykvr5iuBUEcSzD9e_W+oBiw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAE16_w2f++NmTRToRdgy7RBU=HcON4pd2neofyvQ0Djen40UrQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPK7CFAcC4CYUsSc9Wj+7fV--UVG4J2cuORxq0Sh=M5wC_9V+g@mail.gmail.com>
 <007501d94b12$85575d10$90061730$@charter.net>
 <CAPK7CFA7DsNBJ3kx1Yifrzqwd2=KWc1NGG2XhQDsVoSo1gyF+w@mail.gmail.com>
 <1907341679.2108090.1677591354069@mail.yahoo.com>
 <CAPK7CFBg5QpA+RgMjd3qNP+yKqv3v7CMLj-j0jxuYr+Wk6bVnQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <003f01d94b81$d594e670$80beb350$@charter.net>
Message-ID: <CANLCLaEazh7DmeOhhvmbDmzAb6CzHy1OLrwLTth6YORk57bwjw@mail.gmail.com>

The rotor has been checked for run out. Only thing left is the bearing and
wheel. The bearing is easy to change, but so far the replies don't answer
the original question.
Sujit


On Tue, Feb 28, 2023 at 7:15?AM Alex & Janet Thomson <
aljlthomson at charter.net> wrote:

> I didn?t know that MGs used a spacer sleeve and shims for adjustment. How
> fun would that be when doing wheel bearing service on all of my farm
> equipment. Let?s see ? 8 tractors, 7 four-wheel hay wagons, 3 balers, four
> hay rakes, and the list goes on?
>
>
>
> Alex Thomson
>
> ?73 TR6
>
>
>
> *From:* Don Hiscock [mailto:don.hiscock at gmail.com]
> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 28, 2023 8:40 AM
> *To:* DAVID MASSEY
> *Cc:* aljlthomson at charter.net; triumphs at autox.team.net
> *Subject:* Re: [TR] Is this symptom I'm getting indicative of a bad front
> wheel bearing?
>
>
>
> Yeah, I know...
>
>
>
> On Tue, Feb 28, 2023 at 7:35 AM DAVID MASSEY <dave1massey at cs.com> wrote:
>
> Still, 101???  Not 100?  Nobody lists a torque setting to +/- 1%
> Especially back in the day.  With the old torsion-beam torque wrenches with
> a linear scale you're lucky to get +/- 5 lb-ft.
>
>
>
> Dave
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Don Hiscock <don.hiscock at gmail.com>
> To: Alex & Janet Thomson <aljlthomson at charter.net>
> Cc: Triumphs <triumphs at autox.team.net>
> Sent: Mon, Feb 27, 2023 7:28 pm
> Subject: Re: [TR] Is this symptom I'm getting indicative of a bad front
> wheel bearing?
>
> It's not a misprint, unless the missing space between the zero and the ell
> count.  It's mainly dyslexic or too-fast reading, or perhaps being more
> familiar with ft-lb convention than lb-ft that led him to see 101.
>
>
>
> On Mon, Feb 27, 2023 at 7:18 PM Alex & Janet Thomson <
> aljlthomson at charter.net> wrote:
>
> Wow! That definitely is a car with a broken leg! I?ve never done any work
> on an MG but I?ve never heard of a pre-load of 101 ft.-lbs. for front wheel
> bearings. All of our farm tractors, about 10, from a Farmall H to a Deere
> 4250, use the common specification of ?hand tighten to a slight drag, and
> then back off to the nearest castellation?. That?s what I have done on all
> of our cars and trucks over the years and it seems to work.
>
>
>
> Can someone explain the 101 ft.-lb. spec or is that just a misprint?
>
>
>
> Alex Thomson
>
>
>
> *From:* Triumphs [mailto:triumphs-bounces at autox.team.net] *On Behalf Of *Don
> Hiscock
> *Sent:* Monday, February 27, 2023 7:21 PM
> *To:* Philip Ethier
> *Cc:* Triumphs
> *Subject:* Re: [TR] Is this symptom I'm getting indicative of a bad front
> wheel bearing?
>
>
>
> And I lost a front wheel on my TR3B at 70 mph on I-70 in 2014.  I've not
> quite gotten over that episode yet,  Yes, don't fool around with wheel
> bearings!
>
>
>
> The root cause of my wheel-fell-off episode was a restorer who was more
> used to MG bearing preloads than a TR3's non-preloaded bearings.  He read
> this part of the Red Book service instructions as 101 lb?ft, not 10 lb?ft.
> Yikes.
>
> https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-7mHq3MK/0/07d96589/O/i-7mHq3MK.png
>
> https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-8zPPqt3/0/1e459484/XL/i-8zPPqt3-XL.jpg
>
> https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-wBTPGjg/0/5123f2e5/X3/i-wBTPGjg-X3.jpg
>
>
>
> This happened in western Ohio, not too far from Macy's Garage as it turned
> out.  And although Mark and Co. didn't do the work that led to the wheel
> coming off, they know my car and were able to take it into their shop that
> afternoon while I flew home.
>
>
>
> So listen to the voice of two of us with scary experiences.  Take care
> with wheel bearings.
>
>
>
> On Mon, Feb 27, 2023 at 6:01 PM Philip Ethier <pethier7 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Don't mess with wheel bearings.  Get it checked out.  I lost a wheel on my
> TR4 on the way home from the VTR in 2005.
>
>
>
> On Mon, Feb 27, 2023 at 5:35?PM Sujit Roy <triumphstag at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I have a Stag and have checked and changed various components like bottom
> ball joint and top shock mount, but am still experiencing a vibration,
> through the steering wheel,  from the left front wheel only when I'm
> turning left. The car had been fitted with all new poly bushes.
>
> There is no vibration going straight or when turning right.
>
> I plan to swap the wheel with my spare,  but can a bad bearing cause these
> symptoms?
>
> The hub rotates smoothly and there is no noise.
>
>
>
> The TR6 uses a similar vertical link setup as the Stag. The hub
> bearings are tapered.
>
>
>
>
>
> Sujit
>
>
>
> --
>
> Sujit Roy
> Cupertino, California
>
>
> https://triumphstagblog.wordpress.com/
>
> ** triumphs at autox.team.net **
>
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs
> http://www.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/pethier7 at gmail.com
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Phil Ethier West Side Saint Paul Minnesota USA
>
> 1973 Triumph Stag LE22439UBW "uncle jack", Sapphire Blue
>
> ** triumphs at autox.team.net **
>
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs
> http://www.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/don.hiscock at gmail.com
>
> ** triumphs at autox.team.net **
>
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs
> http://www.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/dave1massey at cs.com
>
> ** triumphs at autox.team.net **
>
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs
> http://www.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/triumphstag at gmail.com
>


-- 
Sujit Roy
Cupertino, California

https://triumphstagblog.wordpress.com/
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From aljlthomson at charter.net  Tue Feb 28 10:50:38 2023
From: aljlthomson at charter.net (Alex & Janet Thomson)
Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2023 12:50:38 -0500
Subject: [TR] Is this symptom I'm getting indicative of a bad front
 wheel bearing?
In-Reply-To: <CANLCLaEazh7DmeOhhvmbDmzAb6CzHy1OLrwLTth6YORk57bwjw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANLCLaFppdQev-QqtT0WSND97e-Ykvr5iuBUEcSzD9e_W+oBiw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAE16_w2f++NmTRToRdgy7RBU=HcON4pd2neofyvQ0Djen40UrQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPK7CFAcC4CYUsSc9Wj+7fV--UVG4J2cuORxq0Sh=M5wC_9V+g@mail.gmail.com>
 <007501d94b12$85575d10$90061730$@charter.net>
 <CAPK7CFA7DsNBJ3kx1Yifrzqwd2=KWc1NGG2XhQDsVoSo1gyF+w@mail.gmail.com>
 <1907341679.2108090.1677591354069@mail.yahoo.com>
 <CAPK7CFBg5QpA+RgMjd3qNP+yKqv3v7CMLj-j0jxuYr+Wk6bVnQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <003f01d94b81$d594e670$80beb350$@charter.net>
 <CANLCLaEazh7DmeOhhvmbDmzAb6CzHy1OLrwLTth6YORk57bwjw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <001a01d94b9d$2b777ce0$826676a0$@charter.net>

Sujit ? Sorry for getting off topic and rambling. Here?s a question or two. You mentioned that the vibration comes from the front left wheel during left turns. Since the vibration comes through the steering, I would suggest that both front wheels could be suspect. Look for any interference of tires with body or suspension parts. Does the vibration occur at slight steering angles or only when steering sharp left? Don?t discount things like a cracked wheel or more likely, a bad tire. I have heard first hand accounts that even new tires can be defective.

 

Alex Thomson 

 

From: Sujit Roy [mailto:triumphstag at gmail.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2023 11:33 AM
To: Alex & Janet Thomson
Cc: Don Hiscock; DAVID MASSEY; triumphs at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [TR] Is this symptom I'm getting indicative of a bad front wheel bearing?

 

The rotor has been checked for run out. Only thing left is the bearing and wheel. The bearing is easy to change, but so far the replies don't answer the original question.

Sujit

 

 

On Tue, Feb 28, 2023 at 7:15?AM Alex & Janet Thomson <aljlthomson at charter.net> wrote:

I didn?t know that MGs used a spacer sleeve and shims for adjustment. How fun would that be when doing wheel bearing service on all of my farm equipment. Let?s see ? 8 tractors, 7 four-wheel hay wagons, 3 balers, four hay rakes, and the list goes on?

 

Alex Thomson

?73 TR6

 

From: Don Hiscock [mailto:don.hiscock at gmail.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2023 8:40 AM
To: DAVID MASSEY
Cc: aljlthomson at charter.net; triumphs at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [TR] Is this symptom I'm getting indicative of a bad front wheel bearing?

 

Yeah, I know...

 

On Tue, Feb 28, 2023 at 7:35 AM DAVID MASSEY <dave1massey at cs.com> wrote:

Still, 101???  Not 100?  Nobody lists a torque setting to +/- 1%  Especially back in the day.  With the old torsion-beam torque wrenches with a linear scale you're lucky to get +/- 5 lb-ft.

 

Dave 

 

 

 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Don Hiscock <don.hiscock at gmail.com>
To: Alex & Janet Thomson <aljlthomson at charter.net>
Cc: Triumphs <triumphs at autox.team.net>
Sent: Mon, Feb 27, 2023 7:28 pm
Subject: Re: [TR] Is this symptom I'm getting indicative of a bad front wheel bearing?

It's not a misprint, unless the missing space between the zero and the ell count.  It's mainly dyslexic or too-fast reading, or perhaps being more familiar with ft-lb convention than lb-ft that led him to see 101.

 

On Mon, Feb 27, 2023 at 7:18 PM Alex & Janet Thomson <aljlthomson at charter.net> wrote:

Wow! That definitely is a car with a broken leg! I?ve never done any work on an MG but I?ve never heard of a pre-load of 101 ft.-lbs. for front wheel bearings. All of our farm tractors, about 10, from a Farmall H to a Deere 4250, use the common specification of ?hand tighten to a slight drag, and then back off to the nearest castellation?. That?s what I have done on all of our cars and trucks over the years and it seems to work.

 

Can someone explain the 101 ft.-lb. spec or is that just a misprint?

 

Alex Thomson

 

From: Triumphs [mailto:triumphs-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Don Hiscock
Sent: Monday, February 27, 2023 7:21 PM
To: Philip Ethier
Cc: Triumphs
Subject: Re: [TR] Is this symptom I'm getting indicative of a bad front wheel bearing?

 

And I lost a front wheel on my TR3B at 70 mph on I-70 in 2014.  I've not quite gotten over that episode yet,  Yes, don't fool around with wheel bearings!

 

The root cause of my wheel-fell-off episode was a restorer who was more used to MG bearing preloads than a TR3's non-preloaded bearings.  He read this part of the Red Book service instructions as 101 lb?ft, not 10 lb?ft.  Yikes.

https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-7mHq3MK/0/07d96589/O/i-7mHq3MK.png

https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-8zPPqt3/0/1e459484/XL/i-8zPPqt3-XL.jpg

https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-wBTPGjg/0/5123f2e5/X3/i-wBTPGjg-X3.jpg

 

This happened in western Ohio, not too far from Macy's Garage as it turned out.  And although Mark and Co. didn't do the work that led to the wheel coming off, they know my car and were able to take it into their shop that afternoon while I flew home.

 

So listen to the voice of two of us with scary experiences.  Take care with wheel bearings.

 

On Mon, Feb 27, 2023 at 6:01 PM Philip Ethier <pethier7 at gmail.com> wrote:

Don't mess with wheel bearings.  Get it checked out.  I lost a wheel on my TR4 on the way home from the VTR in 2005.

 

On Mon, Feb 27, 2023 at 5:35?PM Sujit Roy <triumphstag at gmail.com> wrote:

I have a Stag and have checked and changed various components like bottom ball joint and top shock mount, but am still experiencing a vibration, through the steering wheel,  from the left front wheel only when I'm turning left. The car had been fitted with all new poly bushes.

There is no vibration going straight or when turning right. 

I plan to swap the wheel with my spare,  but can a bad bearing cause these symptoms?

The hub rotates smoothly and there is no noise.

 

The TR6 uses a similar vertical link setup as the Stag. The hub bearings are tapered.

 

 

Sujit 


 

-- 

Sujit Roy
Cupertino, California


https://triumphstagblog.wordpress.com/

** triumphs at autox.team.net **

Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs  http://www.team.net/archive

Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/pethier7 at gmail.com




 

-- 

Phil Ethier West Side Saint Paul Minnesota USA

1973 Triumph Stag LE22439UBW "uncle jack", Sapphire Blue

** triumphs at autox.team.net **

Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs  http://www.team.net/archive

Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/don.hiscock at gmail.com

** triumphs at autox.team.net **

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Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs  <http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs> http://www.team.net/archive

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Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/triumphstag at gmail.com




 

-- 

Sujit Roy
Cupertino, California


https://triumphstagblog.wordpress.com/

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From dblambert at comcast.net  Tue Feb 28 11:10:42 2023
From: dblambert at comcast.net (Dennis and Bridget)
Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2023 11:10:42 -0700
Subject: [TR] Is this symptom I'm getting indicative of a bad front
 wheel bearing?
In-Reply-To: <001a01d94b9d$2b777ce0$826676a0$@charter.net>
References: <CANLCLaFppdQev-QqtT0WSND97e-Ykvr5iuBUEcSzD9e_W+oBiw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAE16_w2f++NmTRToRdgy7RBU=HcON4pd2neofyvQ0Djen40UrQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPK7CFAcC4CYUsSc9Wj+7fV--UVG4J2cuORxq0Sh=M5wC_9V+g@mail.gmail.com>
 <007501d94b12$85575d10$90061730$@charter.net>
 <CAPK7CFA7DsNBJ3kx1Yifrzqwd2=KWc1NGG2XhQDsVoSo1gyF+w@mail.gmail.com>
 <1907341679.2108090.1677591354069@mail.yahoo.com>
 <CAPK7CFBg5QpA+RgMjd3qNP+yKqv3v7CMLj-j0jxuYr+Wk6bVnQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <003f01d94b81$d594e670$80beb350$@charter.net>
 <CANLCLaEazh7DmeOhhvmbDmzAb6CzHy1OLrwLTth6YORk57bwjw@mail.gmail.com>
 <001a01d94b9d$2b777ce0$826676a0$@charter.net>
Message-ID: <CA1C915D-4C57-4291-B796-718730848AAF@comcast.net>

From a non-technical standpoint, I?ll share an experience I had many moons ago?I had the exact symptoms you describe on an Audi Fox we owned.  Took it to the local dealer who diagnosed a bad left front wheel bearing. I replaced the wheel bearing and the symptoms disappeared.  
And yes, I agree with what others have written: Wheel bearings and the related adjustments are critical!  If you do replace front wheel bearings, do both sides, and do adjust as per the manual.
Just MHO.
Cheers, Dennis

> On Feb 28, 2023, at 10:50 AM, Alex & Janet Thomson <aljlthomson at charter.net> wrote:
> 
> Sujit ? Sorry for getting off topic and rambling. Here?s a question or two. You mentioned that the vibration comes from the front left wheel during left turns. Since the vibration comes through the steering, I would suggest that both front wheels could be suspect. Look for any interference of tires with body or suspension parts. Does the vibration occur at slight steering angles or only when steering sharp left? Don?t discount things like a cracked wheel or more likely, a bad tire. I have heard first hand accounts that even new tires can be defective.
>  
> Alex Thomson 
>  
> From: Sujit Roy [mailto:triumphstag at gmail.com] 
> Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2023 11:33 AM
> To: Alex & Janet Thomson
> Cc: Don Hiscock; DAVID MASSEY; triumphs at autox.team.net
> Subject: Re: [TR] Is this symptom I'm getting indicative of a bad front wheel bearing?
>  
> The rotor has been checked for run out. Only thing left is the bearing and wheel. The bearing is easy to change, but so far the replies don't answer the original question.
> Sujit
>  
>  
> On Tue, Feb 28, 2023 at 7:15?AM Alex & Janet Thomson <aljlthomson at charter.net <mailto:aljlthomson at charter.net>> wrote:
>> I didn?t know that MGs used a spacer sleeve and shims for adjustment. How fun would that be when doing wheel bearing service on all of my farm equipment. Let?s see ? 8 tractors, 7 four-wheel hay wagons, 3 balers, four hay rakes, and the list goes on?
>>  
>> Alex Thomson
>> ?73 TR6
>>  
>> From: Don Hiscock [mailto:don.hiscock at gmail.com <mailto:don.hiscock at gmail.com>] 
>> Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2023 8:40 AM
>> To: DAVID MASSEY
>> Cc: aljlthomson at charter.net <mailto:aljlthomson at charter.net>; triumphs at autox.team.net <mailto:triumphs at autox.team.net>
>> Subject: Re: [TR] Is this symptom I'm getting indicative of a bad front wheel bearing?
>>  
>> Yeah, I know...
>>  
> ** triumphs at autox.team.net **
> 
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs  http://www.team.net/archive
> 
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/dblambert at comcast.net

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From triumphstag at gmail.com  Tue Feb 28 11:28:30 2023
From: triumphstag at gmail.com (Sujit Roy)
Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2023 10:28:30 -0800
Subject: [TR] Is this symptom I'm getting indicative of a bad front
 wheel bearing?
In-Reply-To: <001a01d94b9d$2b777ce0$826676a0$@charter.net>
References: <CANLCLaFppdQev-QqtT0WSND97e-Ykvr5iuBUEcSzD9e_W+oBiw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAE16_w2f++NmTRToRdgy7RBU=HcON4pd2neofyvQ0Djen40UrQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPK7CFAcC4CYUsSc9Wj+7fV--UVG4J2cuORxq0Sh=M5wC_9V+g@mail.gmail.com>
 <007501d94b12$85575d10$90061730$@charter.net>
 <CAPK7CFA7DsNBJ3kx1Yifrzqwd2=KWc1NGG2XhQDsVoSo1gyF+w@mail.gmail.com>
 <1907341679.2108090.1677591354069@mail.yahoo.com>
 <CAPK7CFBg5QpA+RgMjd3qNP+yKqv3v7CMLj-j0jxuYr+Wk6bVnQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <003f01d94b81$d594e670$80beb350$@charter.net>
 <CANLCLaEazh7DmeOhhvmbDmzAb6CzHy1OLrwLTth6YORk57bwjw@mail.gmail.com>
 <001a01d94b9d$2b777ce0$826676a0$@charter.net>
Message-ID: <CANLCLaExwNUdp9UkyjEHONZW9dB5_oHTjwCPKYsPWRnz7Xmx8A@mail.gmail.com>

As mentioned, two things, I'm yet to try. I have a few spare hubs which I
can try as well as some spare wheels I can put on, but this bloody rain
we've been having here in California is more than I can handle.  The car
has been recently commissioned with all new poly bushes. I do my own
repairs and maintenance on the car.
The vibration starts to occur on slight left turns and continues as I keep
turning. It can be felt through the steering wheel. The Stag btw has power
steering.



Sujit

On Tue, Feb 28, 2023 at 9:50?AM Alex & Janet Thomson <
aljlthomson at charter.net> wrote:

> Sujit ? Sorry for getting off topic and rambling. Here?s a question or
> two. You mentioned that the vibration comes from the front left wheel
> during left turns. Since the vibration comes through the steering, I would
> suggest that both front wheels could be suspect. Look for any interference
> of tires with body or suspension parts. Does the vibration occur at slight
> steering angles or only when steering sharp left? Don?t discount things
> like a cracked wheel or more likely, a bad tire. I have heard first hand
> accounts that even new tires can be defective.
>
>
>
> Alex Thomson
>
>
>
> *From:* Sujit Roy [mailto:triumphstag at gmail.com]
> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 28, 2023 11:33 AM
> *To:* Alex & Janet Thomson
> *Cc:* Don Hiscock; DAVID MASSEY; triumphs at autox.team.net
> *Subject:* Re: [TR] Is this symptom I'm getting indicative of a bad front
> wheel bearing?
>
>
>
> The rotor has been checked for run out. Only thing left is the bearing and
> wheel. The bearing is easy to change, but so far the replies don't answer
> the original question.
>
> Sujit
>
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Feb 28, 2023 at 7:15?AM Alex & Janet Thomson <
> aljlthomson at charter.net> wrote:
>
> I didn?t know that MGs used a spacer sleeve and shims for adjustment. How
> fun would that be when doing wheel bearing service on all of my farm
> equipment. Let?s see ? 8 tractors, 7 four-wheel hay wagons, 3 balers, four
> hay rakes, and the list goes on?
>
>
>
> Alex Thomson
>
> ?73 TR6
>
>
>
> *From:* Don Hiscock [mailto:don.hiscock at gmail.com]
> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 28, 2023 8:40 AM
> *To:* DAVID MASSEY
> *Cc:* aljlthomson at charter.net; triumphs at autox.team.net
> *Subject:* Re: [TR] Is this symptom I'm getting indicative of a bad front
> wheel bearing?
>
>
>
> Yeah, I know...
>
>
>
> On Tue, Feb 28, 2023 at 7:35 AM DAVID MASSEY <dave1massey at cs.com> wrote:
>
> Still, 101???  Not 100?  Nobody lists a torque setting to +/- 1%
> Especially back in the day.  With the old torsion-beam torque wrenches with
> a linear scale you're lucky to get +/- 5 lb-ft.
>
>
>
> Dave
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Don Hiscock <don.hiscock at gmail.com>
> To: Alex & Janet Thomson <aljlthomson at charter.net>
> Cc: Triumphs <triumphs at autox.team.net>
> Sent: Mon, Feb 27, 2023 7:28 pm
> Subject: Re: [TR] Is this symptom I'm getting indicative of a bad front
> wheel bearing?
>
> It's not a misprint, unless the missing space between the zero and the ell
> count.  It's mainly dyslexic or too-fast reading, or perhaps being more
> familiar with ft-lb convention than lb-ft that led him to see 101.
>
>
>
> On Mon, Feb 27, 2023 at 7:18 PM Alex & Janet Thomson <
> aljlthomson at charter.net> wrote:
>
> Wow! That definitely is a car with a broken leg! I?ve never done any work
> on an MG but I?ve never heard of a pre-load of 101 ft.-lbs. for front wheel
> bearings. All of our farm tractors, about 10, from a Farmall H to a Deere
> 4250, use the common specification of ?hand tighten to a slight drag, and
> then back off to the nearest castellation?. That?s what I have done on all
> of our cars and trucks over the years and it seems to work.
>
>
>
> Can someone explain the 101 ft.-lb. spec or is that just a misprint?
>
>
>
> Alex Thomson
>
>
>
> *From:* Triumphs [mailto:triumphs-bounces at autox.team.net] *On Behalf Of *Don
> Hiscock
> *Sent:* Monday, February 27, 2023 7:21 PM
> *To:* Philip Ethier
> *Cc:* Triumphs
> *Subject:* Re: [TR] Is this symptom I'm getting indicative of a bad front
> wheel bearing?
>
>
>
> And I lost a front wheel on my TR3B at 70 mph on I-70 in 2014.  I've not
> quite gotten over that episode yet,  Yes, don't fool around with wheel
> bearings!
>
>
>
> The root cause of my wheel-fell-off episode was a restorer who was more
> used to MG bearing preloads than a TR3's non-preloaded bearings.  He read
> this part of the Red Book service instructions as 101 lb?ft, not 10 lb?ft.
> Yikes.
>
> https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-7mHq3MK/0/07d96589/O/i-7mHq3MK.png
>
> https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-8zPPqt3/0/1e459484/XL/i-8zPPqt3-XL.jpg
>
> https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-wBTPGjg/0/5123f2e5/X3/i-wBTPGjg-X3.jpg
>
>
>
> This happened in western Ohio, not too far from Macy's Garage as it turned
> out.  And although Mark and Co. didn't do the work that led to the wheel
> coming off, they know my car and were able to take it into their shop that
> afternoon while I flew home.
>
>
>
> So listen to the voice of two of us with scary experiences.  Take care
> with wheel bearings.
>
>
>
> On Mon, Feb 27, 2023 at 6:01 PM Philip Ethier <pethier7 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Don't mess with wheel bearings.  Get it checked out.  I lost a wheel on my
> TR4 on the way home from the VTR in 2005.
>
>
>
> On Mon, Feb 27, 2023 at 5:35?PM Sujit Roy <triumphstag at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I have a Stag and have checked and changed various components like bottom
> ball joint and top shock mount, but am still experiencing a vibration,
> through the steering wheel,  from the left front wheel only when I'm
> turning left. The car had been fitted with all new poly bushes.
>
> There is no vibration going straight or when turning right.
>
> I plan to swap the wheel with my spare,  but can a bad bearing cause these
> symptoms?
>
> The hub rotates smoothly and there is no noise.
>
>
>
> The TR6 uses a similar vertical link setup as the Stag. The hub
> bearings are tapered.
>
>
>
>
>
> Sujit
>
>
>
> --
>
> Sujit Roy
> Cupertino, California
>
>
> https://triumphstagblog.wordpress.com/
>
> ** triumphs at autox.team.net **
>
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs
> http://www.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/pethier7 at gmail.com
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Phil Ethier West Side Saint Paul Minnesota USA
>
> 1973 Triumph Stag LE22439UBW "uncle jack", Sapphire Blue
>
> ** triumphs at autox.team.net **
>
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs
> http://www.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/don.hiscock at gmail.com
>
> ** triumphs at autox.team.net **
>
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
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>
>
>
> --
>
> Sujit Roy
> Cupertino, California
>
>
> https://triumphstagblog.wordpress.com/
>


-- 
Sujit Roy
Cupertino, California

https://triumphstagblog.wordpress.com/
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From dave1massey at cs.com  Tue Feb 28 12:08:47 2023
From: dave1massey at cs.com (DAVID MASSEY)
Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2023 19:08:47 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [TR] Is this symptom I'm getting indicative of a bad front
 wheel bearing?
In-Reply-To: <001a01d94b9d$2b777ce0$826676a0$@charter.net>
References: <CANLCLaFppdQev-QqtT0WSND97e-Ykvr5iuBUEcSzD9e_W+oBiw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAE16_w2f++NmTRToRdgy7RBU=HcON4pd2neofyvQ0Djen40UrQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPK7CFAcC4CYUsSc9Wj+7fV--UVG4J2cuORxq0Sh=M5wC_9V+g@mail.gmail.com>
 <007501d94b12$85575d10$90061730$@charter.net>
 <CAPK7CFA7DsNBJ3kx1Yifrzqwd2=KWc1NGG2XhQDsVoSo1gyF+w@mail.gmail.com>
 <1907341679.2108090.1677591354069@mail.yahoo.com>
 <CAPK7CFBg5QpA+RgMjd3qNP+yKqv3v7CMLj-j0jxuYr+Wk6bVnQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <003f01d94b81$d594e670$80beb350$@charter.net>
 <CANLCLaEazh7DmeOhhvmbDmzAb6CzHy1OLrwLTth6YORk57bwjw@mail.gmail.com>
 <001a01d94b9d$2b777ce0$826676a0$@charter.net>
Message-ID: <920109816.2327126.1677611327547@mail.yahoo.com>

 Swap the wheels right and left and see it the symptom changes sides or stays the same.
 
Dave 


 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Alex & Janet Thomson <aljlthomson at charter.net>
To: 'Sujit Roy' <triumphstag at gmail.com>
Cc: 'Don Hiscock' <don.hiscock at gmail.com>; 'DAVID MASSEY' <dave1massey at cs.com>; triumphs at autox.team.net
Sent: Tue, Feb 28, 2023 11:50 am
Subject: RE: [TR] Is this symptom I'm getting indicative of a bad front wheel bearing?

<!--#yiv9868713568 filtered {}#yiv9868713568 filtered {}#yiv9868713568 p.yiv9868713568MsoNormal, #yiv9868713568 li.yiv9868713568MsoNormal, #yiv9868713568 div.yiv9868713568MsoNormal {margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman", "serif";}#yiv9868713568 a:link, #yiv9868713568 span.yiv9868713568MsoHyperlink {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv9868713568 a:visited, #yiv9868713568 span.yiv9868713568MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:purple;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv9868713568 span.yiv9868713568EmailStyle17 {font-family:"Calibri", "sans-serif";color:#1F497D;}#yiv9868713568 .yiv9868713568MsoChpDefault {font-family:"Calibri", "sans-serif";}#yiv9868713568 filtered {}#yiv9868713568 div.yiv9868713568WordSection1 {}-->Sujit ? Sorry for getting off topic and rambling. Here?s a question or two. You mentioned that the vibration comes from the front left wheel during left turns. Since the vibration comes through the steering, I would suggest that both front wheels could be suspect. Look for any interference of tires with body or suspension parts. Does the vibration occur at slight steering angles or only when steering sharp left? Don?t discount things like a cracked wheel or more likely, a bad tire. I have heard first hand accounts that even new tires can be defective. ?Alex Thomson  ?From: Sujit Roy [mailto:triumphstag at gmail.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2023 11:33 AM
To: Alex & Janet Thomson
Cc: Don Hiscock; DAVID MASSEY; triumphs at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [TR] Is this symptom I'm getting indicative of a bad front wheel bearing? ?The?rotor has been checked for run out. Only thing left is the bearing and wheel. The bearing is easy to change, but so far the replies?don't?answer the original question.Sujit ? ?On Tue, Feb 28, 2023 at 7:15?AM Alex & Janet Thomson <aljlthomson at charter.net> wrote:
I didn?t know that MGs used a spacer sleeve and shims for adjustment. How fun would that be when doing wheel bearing service on all of my farm equipment. Let?s see ? 8 tractors, 7 four-wheel hay wagons, 3 balers, four hay rakes, and the list goes on??Alex Thomson?73 TR6?From: Don Hiscock [mailto:don.hiscock at gmail.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2023 8:40 AM
To: DAVID MASSEY
Cc: aljlthomson at charter.net; triumphs at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [TR] Is this symptom I'm getting indicative of a bad front wheel bearing??Yeah, I know...?On Tue, Feb 28, 2023 at 7:35 AM DAVID MASSEY <dave1massey at cs.com> wrote:
Still, 101???? Not 100?? Nobody lists a torque setting to +/- 1%? Especially back in the day.? With the old torsion-beam torque wrenches with a linear scale you're lucky to get +/- 5 lb-ft.?Dave ????-----Original Message-----
From: Don Hiscock <don.hiscock at gmail.com>
To: Alex & Janet Thomson <aljlthomson at charter.net>
Cc: Triumphs <triumphs at autox.team.net>
Sent: Mon, Feb 27, 2023 7:28 pm
Subject: Re: [TR] Is this symptom I'm getting indicative of a bad front wheel bearing?It's not a misprint, unless the missing space between the zero and the ell count.? It's mainly dyslexic or too-fast reading, or perhaps being more familiar with ft-lb convention than lb-ft that led him to see 101.?On Mon, Feb 27, 2023 at 7:18 PM Alex & Janet Thomson <aljlthomson at charter.net> wrote:
Wow! That definitely is a car with a broken leg! I?ve never done any work on an MG but I?ve never heard of a pre-load of 101 ft.-lbs. for front wheel bearings. All of our farm tractors, about 10, from a Farmall H to a Deere 4250, use the common specification of ?hand tighten to a slight drag, and then back off to the nearest castellation?. That?s what I have done on all of our cars and trucks over the years and it seems to work.?Can someone explain the 101 ft.-lb. spec or is that just a misprint??Alex Thomson?From: Triumphs [mailto:triumphs-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Don Hiscock
Sent: Monday, February 27, 2023 7:21 PM
To: Philip Ethier
Cc: Triumphs
Subject: Re: [TR] Is this symptom I'm getting indicative of a bad front wheel bearing??And I lost a front wheel on my TR3B at 70 mph on I-70 in 2014.? I've not quite gotten over that episode yet,? Yes, don't fool around with wheel bearings!?The root cause of my wheel-fell-off episode was a restorer who was more used to MG bearing preloads than a TR3's non-preloaded bearings.? He read this part of the Red Book service instructions as 101 lb?ft, not 10 lb?ft.? Yikes.https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-7mHq3MK/0/07d96589/O/i-7mHq3MK.pnghttps://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-8zPPqt3/0/1e459484/XL/i-8zPPqt3-XL.jpghttps://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-wBTPGjg/0/5123f2e5/X3/i-wBTPGjg-X3.jpg?This happened in western Ohio, not too far from Macy's Garage as it turned out.? And although Mark and Co. didn't do the work that led to the wheel coming off, they know my car and were able to take it into their shop that afternoon while I flew home.?So listen to the voice of two of us with scary experiences.? Take care with wheel bearings.?On Mon, Feb 27, 2023 at 6:01 PM Philip Ethier <pethier7 at gmail.com> wrote:
Don't mess with?wheel bearings.? Get it checked out.? I lost a wheel on my TR4 on the way home from the VTR in 2005.?On Mon, Feb 27, 2023 at 5:35?PM Sujit Roy <triumphstag at gmail.com> wrote:
I have a Stag and have checked and changed various components like bottom ball joint and top shock mount, but am still experiencing a vibration, through the steering?wheel,? from the left front wheel only when I'm turning left. The car had been fitted with all new poly bushes.There is no vibration going straight or when turning right.?I plan to swap the wheel with my spare,? but can a bad bearing cause these symptoms?The hub rotates smoothly and there is no noise.?The TR6 uses a similar vertical link setup as the Stag. The hub bearings?are tapered.??Sujit?
?-- Sujit Roy
Cupertino, California
https://triumphstagblog.wordpress.com/** triumphs at autox.team.net **

Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs? http://www.team.net/archive

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?-- Phil Ethier West Side Saint Paul Minnesota USA1973 Triumph Stag LE22439UBW "uncle jack", Sapphire Blue** triumphs at autox.team.net **

Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs? http://www.team.net/archive

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Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs http://www.team.net/archive

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 ?-- Sujit Roy
Cupertino, California
https://triumphstagblog.wordpress.com/
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From hdrider570 at att.net  Tue Feb 28 15:03:51 2023
From: hdrider570 at att.net (Edward Hamer)
Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2023 22:03:51 +0000
Subject: [TR] Stag front wheel bearing.
References: <MN2PR14MB40615F9A1B591DFA001A14A4ACAC9.ref@MN2PR14MB4061.namprd14.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <MN2PR14MB40615F9A1B591DFA001A14A4ACAC9@MN2PR14MB4061.namprd14.prod.outlook.com>

A similar thing happen on my Stag.  I had replaced the inner lower control arm rubber bushing with yellow poly ones.  10,000 miles later the yellow bushings had worn away all the way to the metal arm.  Replaced with blue poly bushings and am waiting to see if they last longer.

Exward Hamer
Petaluma CA

Sent from my T-Mobile 5G Device
Get Outlook for Android<https://aka.ms/AAb9ysg>
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From stagbytriumph at triumphstagclub.org  Tue Feb 28 16:39:55 2023
From: stagbytriumph at triumphstagclub.org (stagbytriumph at triumphstagclub.org)
Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2023 16:39:55 -0700
Subject: [TR] Is this symptom I'm getting indicative of a bad front
 wheel bearing?
In-Reply-To: <1907341679.2108090.1677591354069@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <CANLCLaFppdQev-QqtT0WSND97e-Ykvr5iuBUEcSzD9e_W+oBiw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAE16_w2f++NmTRToRdgy7RBU=HcON4pd2neofyvQ0Djen40UrQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPK7CFAcC4CYUsSc9Wj+7fV--UVG4J2cuORxq0Sh=M5wC_9V+g@mail.gmail.com>
 <007501d94b12$85575d10$90061730$@charter.net>
 <CAPK7CFA7DsNBJ3kx1Yifrzqwd2=KWc1NGG2XhQDsVoSo1gyF+w@mail.gmail.com>
 <1907341679.2108090.1677591354069@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <000401d94bcd$f96b7bd0$ec427370$@triumphstagclub.org>

Ah GUYS!!! , 

 

RE-read that CLOSELY!!!  That is NOT 101 ?foot pounds?, it is 10lbs. ft.  or TEN ?pounds foot?!!  That is an abbreviation lbs.  for pounds.

 

That 10 foot pounds ?seats? the bearing, then you back off the castle nut as specified and recheck runout.

 

If you torque those bearings to 100 ft pounds you will break the bearings and probably other stuff including overstressing the small threads under the castle nut.

 

Glenn Merrell, CAP

StagByTriumph Garage

210 Bass Circle

Lafayette, Colorado USA 80026-1811 

+1 (303) 817-8559 mobile

aka Stag-By-Triumph Garage (on FaceBook)

Remember, ?the BEST trophies are: Miles on the Odometer; Stone chips in the paint; and DEAD BUGS on the windscreen ? with the occasional smell of manure!?

 

 

 

From: Triumphs <triumphs-bounces at autox.team.net> On Behalf Of DAVID MASSEY
Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2023 6:36 AM
To: don.hiscock at gmail.com; aljlthomson at charter.net
Cc: triumphs at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [TR] Is this symptom I'm getting indicative of a bad front wheel bearing?

 

Still, 101???  Not 100?  Nobody lists a torque setting to +/- 1%  Especially back in the day.  With the old torsion-beam torque wrenches with a linear scale you're lucky to get +/- 5 lb-ft.

 

Dave 

 

 

 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Don Hiscock <don.hiscock at gmail.com <mailto:don.hiscock at gmail.com> >
To: Alex & Janet Thomson <aljlthomson at charter.net <mailto:aljlthomson at charter.net> >
Cc: Triumphs <triumphs at autox.team.net <mailto:triumphs at autox.team.net> >
Sent: Mon, Feb 27, 2023 7:28 pm
Subject: Re: [TR] Is this symptom I'm getting indicative of a bad front wheel bearing?

It's not a misprint, unless the missing space between the zero and the ell count.  It's mainly dyslexic or too-fast reading, or perhaps being more familiar with ft-lb convention than lb-ft that led him to see 101.

 

On Mon, Feb 27, 2023 at 7:18 PM Alex & Janet Thomson <aljlthomson at charter.net <mailto:aljlthomson at charter.net> > wrote:

Wow! That definitely is a car with a broken leg! I?ve never done any work on an MG but I?ve never heard of a pre-load of 101 ft.-lbs. for front wheel bearings. All of our farm tractors, about 10, from a Farmall H to a Deere 4250, use the common specification of ?hand tighten to a slight drag, and then back off to the nearest castellation?. That?s what I have done on all of our cars and trucks over the years and it seems to work.

 

Can someone explain the 101 ft.-lb. spec or is that just a misprint?

 

Alex Thomson

 

From: Triumphs [mailto:triumphs-bounces at autox.team.net <mailto:triumphs-bounces at autox.team.net> ] On Behalf Of Don Hiscock
Sent: Monday, February 27, 2023 7:21 PM
To: Philip Ethier
Cc: Triumphs
Subject: Re: [TR] Is this symptom I'm getting indicative of a bad front wheel bearing?

 

And I lost a front wheel on my TR3B at 70 mph on I-70 in 2014.  I've not quite gotten over that episode yet,  Yes, don't fool around with wheel bearings!

 

The root cause of my wheel-fell-off episode was a restorer who was more used to MG bearing preloads than a TR3's non-preloaded bearings.  He read this part of the Red Book service instructions as 101 lb?ft, not 10 lb?ft.  Yikes.

https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-7mHq3MK/0/07d96589/O/i-7mHq3MK.png

https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-8zPPqt3/0/1e459484/XL/i-8zPPqt3-XL.jpg

https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-wBTPGjg/0/5123f2e5/X3/i-wBTPGjg-X3.jpg

 

This happened in western Ohio, not too far from Macy's Garage as it turned out.  And although Mark and Co. didn't do the work that led to the wheel coming off, they know my car and were able to take it into their shop that afternoon while I flew home.

 

So listen to the voice of two of us with scary experiences.  Take care with wheel bearings.

 

On Mon, Feb 27, 2023 at 6:01 PM Philip Ethier <pethier7 at gmail.com <mailto:pethier7 at gmail.com> > wrote:

Don't mess with wheel bearings.  Get it checked out.  I lost a wheel on my TR4 on the way home from the VTR in 2005.

 

On Mon, Feb 27, 2023 at 5:35?PM Sujit Roy <triumphstag at gmail.com <mailto:triumphstag at gmail.com> > wrote:

I have a Stag and have checked and changed various components like bottom ball joint and top shock mount, but am still experiencing a vibration, through the steering wheel,  from the left front wheel only when I'm turning left. The car had been fitted with all new poly bushes.

There is no vibration going straight or when turning right. 

I plan to swap the wheel with my spare,  but can a bad bearing cause these symptoms?

The hub rotates smoothly and there is no noise.

 

The TR6 uses a similar vertical link setup as the Stag. The hub bearings are tapered.

 

 

Sujit 


 

-- 

Sujit Roy
Cupertino, California


https://triumphstagblog.wordpress.com/

** triumphs at autox.team.net <mailto:triumphs at autox.team.net>  **

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-- 

Phil Ethier West Side Saint Paul Minnesota USA

1973 Triumph Stag LE22439UBW "uncle jack", Sapphire Blue

** triumphs at autox.team.net <mailto:triumphs at autox.team.net>  **

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From dave1massey at cs.com  Tue Feb 28 16:46:43 2023
From: dave1massey at cs.com (DAVID MASSEY)
Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2023 23:46:43 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [TR] Stag front wheel bearing.
In-Reply-To: <MN2PR14MB40615F9A1B591DFA001A14A4ACAC9@MN2PR14MB4061.namprd14.prod.outlook.com>
References: <MN2PR14MB40615F9A1B591DFA001A14A4ACAC9.ref@MN2PR14MB4061.namprd14.prod.outlook.com>
 <MN2PR14MB40615F9A1B591DFA001A14A4ACAC9@MN2PR14MB4061.namprd14.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <158706193.2494489.1677628003129@mail.yahoo.com>

 Did you grease the metal sleeve?? The poly bushings operate differently than the rubber ones do.? The rubber bushings deflect when the suspension moves, the poly don't.? The sleeve rotates in the bushing.? Without lubrication the poly bushings will wear quickly.? I use a silicon-based grease, something that is not chemically active.? The poly bushings on my TR6 are still doing well after 15 years.
 
Dave 


 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Edward Hamer <hdrider570 at att.net>
To: triumphs at autox.team.net <triumphs at autox.team.net>
Sent: Tue, Feb 28, 2023 4:03 pm
Subject: [TR] Stag front wheel bearing.

 A similar thing happen on my Stag.? I had replaced the inner lower control arm rubber bushing with yellow poly ones.? 10,000 miles later the yellow bushings had worn away all the way to the metal arm.? Replaced with blue poly bushings and am waiting to see if they last longer.
Exward HamerPetaluma CA
Sent from my T-Mobile 5G Device
Get Outlook for Android** triumphs at autox.team.net **

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From yellowtr3 at yahoo.com  Tue Feb 28 18:19:12 2023
From: yellowtr3 at yahoo.com (Frank Fisher)
Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2023 01:19:12 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [TR] Is this symptom I'm getting indicative of a bad front
 wheel bearing?
In-Reply-To: <CA1C915D-4C57-4291-B796-718730848AAF@comcast.net>
References: <CANLCLaFppdQev-QqtT0WSND97e-Ykvr5iuBUEcSzD9e_W+oBiw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAE16_w2f++NmTRToRdgy7RBU=HcON4pd2neofyvQ0Djen40UrQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPK7CFAcC4CYUsSc9Wj+7fV--UVG4J2cuORxq0Sh=M5wC_9V+g@mail.gmail.com>
 <007501d94b12$85575d10$90061730$@charter.net>
 <CAPK7CFA7DsNBJ3kx1Yifrzqwd2=KWc1NGG2XhQDsVoSo1gyF+w@mail.gmail.com>
 <1907341679.2108090.1677591354069@mail.yahoo.com>
 <CAPK7CFBg5QpA+RgMjd3qNP+yKqv3v7CMLj-j0jxuYr+Wk6bVnQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <003f01d94b81$d594e670$80beb350$@charter.net>
 <CANLCLaEazh7DmeOhhvmbDmzAb6CzHy1OLrwLTth6YORk57bwjw@mail.gmail.com>
 <001a01d94b9d$2b777ce0$826676a0$@charter.net>
 <CA1C915D-4C57-4291-B796-718730848AAF@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <352761885.1387911.1677633552181@mail.yahoo.com>

 try switching the front wheels.does the problem them move to right hand turns?

Frank
    On Tuesday, February 28, 2023 at 10:30:23 AM PST, Dennis and Bridget <dblambert at comcast.net> wrote:  
 
 From a non-technical standpoint, I?ll share an experience I had many moons ago?I had the exact symptoms you describe on an Audi Fox we owned. ?Took it to the local dealer who diagnosed a bad left front wheel bearing. I replaced the wheel bearing and the symptoms disappeared. ?And yes, I agree with what others have written: Wheel bearings and the related adjustments are critical! ?If you do replace front wheel bearings, do both sides, and do adjust as per the manual.Just MHO.Cheers, Dennis


On Feb 28, 2023, at 10:50 AM, Alex & Janet Thomson <aljlthomson at charter.net> wrote:

Sujit ? Sorry for getting off topic and rambling. Here?s a question or two. You mentioned that the vibration comes from the front left wheel during left turns. Since the vibration comes through the steering, I would suggest that both front wheels could be suspect. Look for any interference of tires with body or suspension parts. Does the vibration occur at slight steering angles or only when steering sharp left? Don?t discount things like a cracked wheel or more likely, a bad tire. I have heard first hand accounts that even new tires can be defective. ?Alex Thomson? ?From:?Sujit Roy [mailto:triumphstag at gmail.com]?
Sent:?Tuesday, February 28, 2023 11:33 AM
To:?Alex & Janet Thomson
Cc:?Don Hiscock; DAVID MASSEY; triumphs at autox.team.net
Subject:?Re: [TR] Is this symptom I'm getting indicative of a bad front wheel bearing? ?The?rotor has been checked for run out. Only thing left is the bearing and wheel. The bearing is easy to change, but so far the replies?don't?answer the original question.Sujit ? ?On Tue, Feb 28, 2023 at 7:15?AM Alex & Janet Thomson <aljlthomson at charter.net> wrote:
I didn?t know that MGs used a spacer sleeve and shims for adjustment. How fun would that be when doing wheel bearing service on all of my farm equipment. Let?s see ? 8 tractors, 7 four-wheel hay wagons, 3 balers, four hay rakes, and the list goes on??Alex Thomson?73 TR6?From:?Don Hiscock [mailto:don.hiscock at gmail.com]?
Sent:?Tuesday, February 28, 2023 8:40 AM
To:?DAVID MASSEY
Cc:?aljlthomson at charter.net;?triumphs at autox.team.net
Subject:?Re: [TR] Is this symptom I'm getting indicative of a bad front wheel bearing??Yeah, I know...?
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