[TR] TR250 handling question

Thu Jun 30 15:22:23 MDT 2016

I am going to side with Massey on this one, because, he is almost correct.

For confirmation, go check any site recommending alignments for road track / autocross  racing.  

Here is one - http://winhpde.com/track-alignment/

And  another http://www.ozebiz.com.au/racetech/theory/align.html

(Ted Schumacher, you and pipe in any time here …)

Most of us want our Triumphs tuned like we are driving on a road  course race track.

The handling description described  is similar to driving on a road of ball bearings or ice?  

That is oversteer from too much negative camber or too much toe, or both, and with full independent suspension, this becomes more critical for optimum handling because all four wheels must be properly adjusted for correct handling.

Tire size will directly affect the camber condition if the tire is wider or narrower than OE, the camber will be directly affected.  Alignment specifications are set for OE standard tires, which are not available o for most of our LBC’s these days.

Unless there are bad suspension components or misadjusted wheel bearings,  the handling condition is completely indicative  of incorrect alignment.

I had a local alignment guy who did alignments for Rocky Mountain Vintage Racers, and he could set up 4 wheel alignment to handle any way the driver wanted – understeer – oversteer – neutral.

Depending on the type of suspension, each setup by suspension type is different.

TR250’s have full IRS, so rear toe / camber is just as important as the front. 

Front toe in adds to the eagerness of the turn, rear toe in adds to the quickness to rotate into a turn.

Camber affects how the tire contacts the road surface.  Too much negative camber and you product oversteer.

Combine with incorrect toe in and negative camber and the car feels like it is on ice or ball bearings

My Stags were like that, so was my TR250.  The Stag uses Struts, the TR250 uses A Arms.  I had my guy set the camber and toe front and rear at the edge of the specs between neutral and oversteer handling, and they now ride like they are on rails, solid as a rock, yet responsive and predictive.  

Glenn Merrell  

+1 (303) 817-8559 mobile

aka StagByTriumph Garage (now on FaceBook)

Remember, “the BEST trophies are: Miles on the Odometer; Stone chips in the paint; and DEAD BUGS on the windscreen … with the occasional smell of manure!”

From: Triumphs [mailto:triumphs-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of ptegler at verizon.net
Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2016 8:49 AM
To: dave1massey at cs.com; triumphs at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [TR] TR250 handling question

pure rubish. Plain and simple they screwed up your alignment as it was before. 
Just replacing the rack has nothing to do with alignment (other than initial adjustment of course) Camber and caster, alignment and wheel balance = tracking
They simply have not gotten your alignment etc anywhere near where it was before.

why did they say you needed a new steering rack?  Recent accident? (major shock/jolt)  over 50-80K miles of rough roads since last serviced? 

Paul Tegler
ptegler at verizon.net
www.teglerizer.com

On 06/28/16, Dave<dave1massey at cs.com></dave1massey@ wrote:

That sounds like the caster adjustment is out.  TR3's have zero caster and I am forever correcting the steering to keep it in the lane.

Dave Massey

-----Original Message-----
From: Pat Fischer <pfischer at rmi.net>
To: triumph list list <triumphs at autox.team.net>
Sent: Mon, Jun 27, 2016 2:58 pm
Subject: [TR] TR250 handling question

Hello, Listers. Hoping for your expertise here.

Took the 250 to a local shop for some small body repair and new tires. 
Handling of the car has always been superb with wider-than-stock wheels 
and low profile tires, but the two of the tires were 15 years old, so a 
rubber update was needed. The shop also told me that the car also needed 
a new steering rack and tie rod ends. They did this, set alignment and 
lubed the front end.

First getting the car back, the car vibrated at 70 on the highway. Shop 
says they've fixed that with re-balancing the tires. (I haven't driven 
it yet.)

Next, the car feels skittish, jittery at 50-60 mph, and you have to keep 
correcting with steering to keep it straight in its lane. You'll be 
driving along just fine and then Whoops! there is goes twitching left a 
bit. It doesn't feel stuck to the road as before this work was done. 
Here's the question: the shop tells us that this is normal after 
replacing the steering rack, that "the car is more responsive," in their 
words, and has "a more immediate feel to it," but they also reference 
this as "twitchy-ness."

What should expectations be upon replacing steering rack and tie-rod ends?

Many thanks,

Pat Fischer

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