From opposumking at verizon.net Tue Sep 1 03:59:54 2009 From: opposumking at verizon.net (Nolan) Date: Tue, 01 Sep 2009 05:59:54 -0400 Subject: [TR] [Spits] Small tire changer - References: <294587.7428.qm@web608.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <003201ca2aea$f5200270$230bfea9@mde.state.md.us> >...considering using one of Harbor Freights small tire changers. Harbor Freight has a manual tire changer, and a small tire changer. They are two very different machines. I have never used their mini tire changer http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=34552 but I am confident it is the wrong tool for your car tire. It's maximum capacity is a 12" rim. Their manual automotive tire changer http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=34542 I have used extensively. It works quite well. I have changed probably well over a hundred tires with it over the years, from small Spitfire tires to large commercial truck tires. It should work just fine on a wire wheel, but I have never used it on one. Do be aware that it will scrape the paint off the rim at the rim bead, from the bar sliding around the rim. A motorcycle shop will be able to balance your wheel as well as mount it. From tdskip at yahoo.com Tue Sep 1 07:57:52 2009 From: tdskip at yahoo.com (Tom Deutsch) Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 06:57:52 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [TR] TR6 sheet metal request - looking for inner fenders Message-ID: <463717.62612.qm@web55607.mail.re4.yahoo.com> Hello folks, I am looking for a pair of inner fenders for a Triumph TR6 preferably off an original car rather than the reproduction panels. I'm doing rust repair, so ideally I am looking for a set of solid panels. Just one side or this other is OK if you don't have both. Why I decided to repair this car is sometimes beyond me, but I'm off and running and want to do it right. Thanks - and happy motoring! Tom From bdischer.lists at blakedischer.com Tue Sep 1 10:04:51 2009 From: bdischer.lists at blakedischer.com (Blake J. Discher) Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 12:04:51 -0400 Subject: [TR] Servo rebuilder Partco - follow up In-Reply-To: References: <4A997EC9.19860.F23FFEB@localhost> Message-ID: <1365CD24-313C-45ED-AD56-C5FD288FBB90@blakedischer.com> On Aug 29, 2009, at 10:24 PM, Blake J. Discher wrote: > Does anyone know if Partco is still around and rebuilding brake > boosters? ISTR they were a reasonably priced source and in > Cincinnati, Ohio. Getting the TR6 ready for the drive to Triumphest/ > NATC and the booster is sorely in need of attention. Thanks everyone for your help. It appears that Partco is kaput but Ted Schumacher contacted me to let me know he has rebuilt servos reasonably priced with exchange. I'm getting one from him. Cheers, Blake From agraham at execulink.com Tue Sep 1 12:08:31 2009 From: agraham at execulink.com (Angelo Graham) Date: Tue, 01 Sep 2009 14:08:31 -0400 Subject: [TR] Looking for TR3 rear brake parts Message-ID: <200909011808.n81I8VUw020247@smtp1.execulink.net> Hello List: Asking if any list members have in their old parts inventory: - a wedge for a rear brake adjuster (10" brakes) only need 1 -a handbrake/rear cylinder actuating lever - only need 1 Thanks for any help with any of these items. Trying to piece together a Girling axle replacement for my TR2. Please contact me off list. Angelo Graham Waterloo, ON (Canada) From dkspence at telus.net Tue Sep 1 12:37:19 2009 From: dkspence at telus.net (Don Spence) Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 12:37:19 -0600 Subject: [TR] TR250 Bonnet In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Yes it is supposed to be there. Glue it to the hood. Use a glue that allows you to move it around before it sets up. (Not contact cement) On 1-Sep-09, at 12:00 PM, triumphs-request at autox.team.net wrote: > From: Roger Elliott > Date: August 31, 2009 8:22:21 PM MDT (CA) > To: triumphs at autox.team.net > Subject: [TR] TR250 Bonnet > > > Hi Everyone, > > My wife's TR 250 has strips material - kind of like a waterproof > felt - under the hood. One piece goes the the length of the hood, > the other goes across. They are between the top of bonnet and > structural - strengthening pieces. I assume the material is there > to help quiet rattles and shales of the bonnet. > The material does not want to stay in place. So I am wondering, > has anyone found a suitable material for this and a way to keep it > there? Does everyone leave it out? Is it even supposed to be there > to begin with? (It has been there since Pat got the car). > > Thanks, > Roger Elliott From jimmuller at rcn.com Tue Sep 1 15:38:51 2009 From: jimmuller at rcn.com (Jim Muller) Date: Tue, 01 Sep 2009 17:38:51 -0400 Subject: [TR] a peculiar electrical puzzle Message-ID: <4A9D5C2B.13838.246C6AC@localhost> Ah, the joys of running a 40-year-old car. Several times this summer, including today, I had a strange experience in the GT6. I turn it on, it starts up, and a puff of smoke comes from the left side of the "control head" bulge just ahead of the steering wheel where the turn signal stalk goes in. It doesn't smell particularly like smoke and it looks white like steam. Today even the turn signal relay started clicking. I flipped the signal stalk to the left in case it was accdidentally on to the right, but it didn't stop and the indicator started blinking. So I flipped it over to the right, and the indicator stopped blinking briefly though the clicking continued, and after a second or so the indicator began to blink normally as the steaming stopped. When I flipped it back to off everything stopped and all worked properly after that. Now, it rained heavily for several days due to Tropical Storm Danny but yesterday and today were dry. Anyway, no water would get into the control head. The carpets weren't wet, and I drove the car yesterday and had no problem. Maybe the flasher unit itself could have gotten wet, maybe. The last time this happened I took the trim off and examined the wiring and turn signal mechanism. It looked normal, no heating or burn marks, no sign of anything untoward. But it is as if water had worked its way in or a spider had built a web, something had created a rogue connection. Then with resistance heating the electrical transmission path would go away. I can't fix anything that isn't obviously broke. Danged if I can find a cause. Have any of you ever experienced something like this? -- Jim Muller jimmuller at rcn.com '80 Spitfire, '70 GT6+ From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Tue Sep 1 16:15:02 2009 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 15:15:02 -0700 Subject: [TR] a peculiar electrical puzzle In-Reply-To: <4A9D5C2B.13838.246C6AC@localhost> References: <4A9D5C2B.13838.246C6AC@localhost> Message-ID: <85DD4372F3B843C79B2802F43F7B6A89@jdnet.deere.com> > Have any of you ever experienced something like this? Kind of. But it's always been some sort of metallic FOD for me. On the Stag it was the headlight 'dimmer' switch, the FOD turned out to be tiny bearing balls that had worked their way out of the column bearing and into the switch contacts. The first time I only heard the noise it made as it fell out while I was disassembling the control head; second time I managed to find the ball on the carpet underneath. Another time it was a strand of wire that had gone astray, so blackened by the heat that it appeared to be a thread of cloth. Anyway, my point is that IMO wet spider webs or whatnot would not cause smoke at 12v. Certainly they can conduct some, but not that much. http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=98722 -- Randall From jimmuller at rcn.com Tue Sep 1 17:51:28 2009 From: jimmuller at rcn.com (Jim Muller) Date: Tue, 01 Sep 2009 19:51:28 -0400 Subject: [TR] a peculiar electrical puzzle In-Reply-To: <85DD4372F3B843C79B2802F43F7B6A89@jdnet.deere.com> References: <4A9D5C2B.13838.246C6AC@localhost> Message-ID: <4A9D7B40.22826.2C033D1@localhost> On 1 Sep 2009 at 15:15, Randall wrote: > Another time it was a strand of wire that had gone astray, so blackened by > the heat that it appeared to be a thread of cloth. > > Anyway, my point is that IMO wet spider webs or whatnot would not cause > smoke at 12v. Certainly they can conduct some, but not that much. > > http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=98722 I thank you, and Irv Korey for his offlist answer. I would not have thought that 12v could cause any such thing either. But careful inspection of the wiring shows no frazzled ends, nothing suspicious. The switch, such as it is, is a clean set of contacts. There are no balls to fall out. Perhaps there exists a mass of metal dust which has been shaved off by wear from something. Or maybe Joseph Lucas is asserting his right make an electrical connection whenever and wherever he chooses. But why, Randall, did you send the link to Harbor Freight's loupe set? Are you suggesting I take a closer, microscopic look? I assire upi mu euesogjt os as gppd as ot jas a;waus beem. Cheers! -- Jim Muller jimmuller at rcn.com '80 Spitfire, '70 GT6+ From rengrave at verizon.net Tue Sep 1 20:12:16 2009 From: rengrave at verizon.net (Wayne) Date: Tue, 01 Sep 2009 22:12:16 -0400 Subject: [TR] Starter wire In-Reply-To: References: <6AD974AAF5B342C6B376188385E0514D@RossFamily> Message-ID: <919D9163A36C45CAA7365C6B8A615FAC@RossFamily> Thanks for the feedback Randall, After downloading the nice wiring diagram linked from this list and peeling back the wrapping on the wires to the starter: I can see that the broken wire is white with a yellow stripe, and it connects to the ignition coil. The slightly thicker wire with the 1/4" spade, is white with a red stripe and connects to the ignition switch. However the wiring diagram shows a pink with white stripe wire "ballast resister wire" that is missing on my coil. The wiring diagram shows this wire on the coil on the same terminal as the white and yellow stripe wire. Instead of this ballast resister wire, I have a black wire that I think I installed when I bought TRF "sport coil" years ago. It was so long ago, but I think the instructions that came with the sport coil directed me to remove the ballast resister wire and run a wire from the coil to the fuse box. Does this sound correct? Wayne 73 TR6 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Randall" To: "'Wayne'" ; Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 9:02 PM Subject: RE: [TR] Starter wire >> I noticed another wire that was wrapped in the harness along with the >> thin >> spade connection wire I just connected. >> This wire was broken off from something (bare wire). >> Does anyone know where this wire connects to? > > I would guess that it's the white/yellow wire that should run from the > starter solenoid to the ignition coil. It's function is to bypass the > ballast resistor while the engine is cranking, for (theoretically) easier > starting (primarily in cold weather). If you only drive the car in warm > weather (and I'm right about what it is), you can probably just leave it > disconnected. > >> My starter has one male spade connector and the heavy hex nut connection >> for the battery. > > Should be a second, smaller male spade, but it sometimes gets broken off > or > may be missing from replacement solenoids. > > -- Randall From pdonnel1 at san.rr.com Tue Sep 1 21:40:07 2009 From: pdonnel1 at san.rr.com (John & Pat Donnelly) Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 20:40:07 -0700 Subject: [TR] Low Oil Pressure and Engine Noises Message-ID: <000001ca2b7f$114e5e30$33eb1a90$@rr.com> Hi Folks, The oil pressure on my car is getting too low, and "bad" sounding noises have started to set in. The noise emanates from the engine area and sounds like both valve and lower end issues, but I'm not sure. Maybe even timing chain noise. The hotter the engine gets the worse it gets. The noises mostly happen under load, so stethoscoping these are difficult. I could go into all the different chatters, rattling, bonking, pinging, and thunking, but everyone has their own description of what each sounds like. Is there a website, maybe even Youtube, that can help me decipher these noises? Thanks! Johnnie '67 TR4A From spook01 at comcast.net Tue Sep 1 21:43:13 2009 From: spook01 at comcast.net (spook01) Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 22:43:13 -0500 Subject: [TR] [Fwd: Intersting article] References: <4A9AC465.9020806@snet.net> Message-ID: <5656A139A18D43D1920C1CBAF08DDB5D@yourpd3mh0abgs> How many cars has Tesla actually built, sold and delivered? Best, Ray ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "'John Mitchell'" ; "'6 Pack'" <6pack at Autox.Team.Net>; ; Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 7:20 PM Subject: Re: [TR] [Fwd: Intersting article] > John, > Thanks for sharing, I'm sure the Lucas Eclectic car will surpass anything > that Tesla can produce.... Except the garage! > > http://www.carlectro.com/node/33 > > > Bill Beecher > '58 TR-3A TS/30766 L (On the road in 2009!) > "A Triumph is man's best friend, it always comes when it is called...of > course, some times it is difficult to make it go" > This list supported in part by the Vintage Triumph Register > http://www.vtr.org > > > Triumphs at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs > > > http://www.team.net/archive > _______________________________________________ > > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > This list supported in part by the Vintage Triumph Register > http://www.vtr.org > > > Triumphs at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs > > > http://www.team.net/archive From yellowtr3 at yahoo.com Tue Sep 1 21:54:36 2009 From: yellowtr3 at yahoo.com (Frank Fisher) Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 20:54:36 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [TR] tr3 dash switch tool Message-ID: <321509.36760.qm@web111616.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> i seem to recall someone on the list makes the tubular special wrench for use on the dash switches for the tr3. any one care to own up? Frank From akgraves at cox.net Tue Sep 1 21:55:01 2009 From: akgraves at cox.net (Art Graves) Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 22:55:01 -0500 Subject: [TR] Piston Ring Replacement - Problem Solved Message-ID: <000001ca2b81$2b684630$8238d290$@net> A few days ago I posted a question regarding a hard to rotate crankshaft after replacing the piston rings and rod bearings. I received a lot of good advice, so I decided to check my work. And after thinking about it more I decided that I must have put the connecting rod end caps on wrong. Today I checked that and discovered that I had put them on exactly wrong. I knew that there is a right and wrong way to do the job, but I misread the instructions and did it wrong. Now the connecting rods move (a little) back & forth and the engine turns over easily. I put all the other bits on (what a bunch of work!) and was able to start the engine. It sounds pretty good. Anyway, all's well that ends well. Thanks for the input and reality check. Art Graves Tulsa, OK 1976 Triumph TR6 1985 Jaguar XJ6 From mark at bradakis.com Tue Sep 1 22:06:59 2009 From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J Bradakis) Date: Tue, 01 Sep 2009 22:06:59 -0600 Subject: [TR] Low Oil Pressure and Engine Noises In-Reply-To: <000001ca2b7f$114e5e30$33eb1a90$@rr.com> References: <000001ca2b7f$114e5e30$33eb1a90$@rr.com> Message-ID: <4A9DEF63.6090402@bradakis.com> > The oil pressure on my car is getting too low, and "bad" sounding noises > have started to set in. How low is too low? What sort of pressures are you seeing at idle, at startup and fully warmed? You may want to pull the pan and take a look at some of the rod bearings. A worn rocker shaft can also contribute to noise and low oil pressure. This is easier to check than the rod bearings. Just remove the valve cover and push the rocker arms around, see if you can see any scoring or wear on the shaft. mjb. From wbeech at flash.net Tue Sep 1 22:20:49 2009 From: wbeech at flash.net (wbeech at flash.net) Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 22:20:49 -0600 Subject: [TR] tr3 dash switch tool In-Reply-To: <321509.36760.qm@web111616.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <321509.36760.qm@web111616.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <6157BB9628194DD481C899A27C6F8761@bboffice> I bought one at Harbor Freight for about $4.00 item #36554 http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=36554. Had to grind the pins from their original round to a flat configuration but it works great. Bill Beecher '58 TR-3A TS/30766 L (On the road in 2009!) "A Triumph is man's best friend, it always comes when it is called...of course, some times it is difficult to make it go" -----Original Message----- From: triumphs-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:triumphs-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Frank Fisher Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 9:55 PM To: triumphs at autox.team.net Subject: [TR] tr3 dash switch tool i seem to recall someone on the list makes the tubular special wrench for use on the dash switches for the tr3. any one care to own up? Frank This list supported in part by the Vintage Triumph Register http://www.vtr.org Triumphs at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs http://www.team.net/archive From spitlist at cox.net Tue Sep 1 22:27:07 2009 From: spitlist at cox.net (Joe Curry) Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 21:27:07 -0700 Subject: [TR] [Fwd: Intersting article] In-Reply-To: <5656A139A18D43D1920C1CBAF08DDB5D@yourpd3mh0abgs> References: <4A9AC465.9020806@snet.net> <5656A139A18D43D1920C1CBAF08DDB5D@yourpd3mh0abgs> Message-ID: <3FBC203660B946558101B9E92D4B95A6@joepentiumnew> According to Tesla's internet site the production plan was to have 500 built between July 2008 and March 2009. Whether that plan has been accomplished, I have no idea. A July 2008 memo stated that a dozen finished units had been delivered and another 24 were in production with the production moving at about 4 units per week and ramping up to 100 per month by December 2008. A Dec. 2008 Memo stated that the previous week, Tesla delivered its 100th vehicle. A Jan 2009 memo stated that during 2008 nearly 150 customers took delivery of a Tesla. A Feb. 2009 memo stated that they had produced over 200 vehicles, production was sold out through early Nov and they expected that soon the entire 2009 production would be sold out. Over 1000 customers were awaiting delivery. No further production figures were mentioned in the blog. Joe -----Original Message----- From: triumphs-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:triumphs-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of spook01 Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 8:43 PM To: wbeech at flash.net; 'John Mitchell'; '6 Pack'; triumphs at autox.team.net; StagByTriumph at tscusa.org Subject: Re: [TR] [Fwd: Intersting article] How many cars has Tesla actually built, sold and delivered? Best, Ray ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "'John Mitchell'" ; "'6 Pack'" <6pack at Autox.Team.Net>; ; Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 7:20 PM Subject: Re: [TR] [Fwd: Intersting article] > John, > Thanks for sharing, I'm sure the Lucas Eclectic car will surpass anything > that Tesla can produce.... Except the garage! > > http://www.carlectro.com/node/33 > > > Bill Beecher > '58 TR-3A TS/30766 L (On the road in 2009!) > "A Triumph is man's best friend, it always comes when it is called...of > course, some times it is difficult to make it go" > This list supported in part by the Vintage Triumph Register > http://www.vtr.org > > > Triumphs at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs > > > http://www.team.net/archive > _______________________________________________ > > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > This list supported in part by the Vintage Triumph Register > http://www.vtr.org > > > Triumphs at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs > > > http://www.team.net/archive This list supported in part by the Vintage Triumph Register http://www.vtr.org Triumphs at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs http://www.team.net/archive From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Tue Sep 1 23:04:32 2009 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 22:04:32 -0700 Subject: [TR] Starter wire In-Reply-To: <919D9163A36C45CAA7365C6B8A615FAC@RossFamily> Message-ID: <20090902050432434.IGLY29089@cdptpa-omta03.mail.rr.com> > Instead of this ballast resister wire, I have a black wire > that I think I > installed when I bought TRF "sport coil" years ago. > It was so long ago, but I think the instructions that came > with the sport > coil directed me to remove the ballast resister wire > and run a wire from the coil to the fuse box. > > Does this sound correct? Yup, sounds right. Although there is a version of the "Sport" coil that should be used with a ballast, I believe TRF only sells the "no ballast" version. In which case the white/yellow would do no good anyway and might as well be left disconnected at the starter. Make sure it can't short out to anything though. Randall From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Tue Sep 1 23:27:37 2009 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 22:27:37 -0700 Subject: [TR] a peculiar electrical puzzle In-Reply-To: <4A9D7B40.22826.2C033D1@localhost> Message-ID: <20090902052737452.IOKG29089@cdptpa-omta03.mail.rr.com> > But why, Randall, did you send the link to Harbor Freight's loupe > set? Are you suggesting I take a closer, microscopic look? Well, yes, that was the idea. No slight intended to your eyesight, it's just that sometimes a closer look reveals something that was missed the first time around. I didn't think the wire was frayed either, and my eyes were a lot younger then than now. Randall From wbeech at flash.net Tue Sep 1 23:32:26 2009 From: wbeech at flash.net (wbeech at flash.net) Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 23:32:26 -0600 Subject: [TR] [Fwd: Intersting article] In-Reply-To: <3FBC203660B946558101B9E92D4B95A6@joepentiumnew> References: <4A9AC465.9020806@snet.net> <5656A139A18D43D1920C1CBAF08DDB5D@yourpd3mh0abgs> <3FBC203660B946558101B9E92D4B95A6@joepentiumnew> Message-ID: When I spoke to the rep he said their goal was 1500 per year and the waiting list was 3-4 months. With the coming of their sedan, selling between $50k-$65k at the end of 2010, they were looking to utilize a portion of the Toyota plant in Fremont. Bill -----Original Message----- From: Joe Curry [mailto:spitlist at cox.net] Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 10:27 PM To: 'spook01'; wbeech at flash.net; 'John Mitchell'; triumphs at autox.team.net Subject: RE: [TR] [Fwd: Intersting article] According to Tesla's internet site the production plan was to have 500 built between July 2008 and March 2009. Whether that plan has been accomplished, I have no idea. A July 2008 memo stated that a dozen finished units had been delivered and another 24 were in production with the production moving at about 4 units per week and ramping up to 100 per month by December 2008. A Dec. 2008 Memo stated that the previous week, Tesla delivered its 100th vehicle. A Jan 2009 memo stated that during 2008 nearly 150 customers took delivery of a Tesla. A Feb. 2009 memo stated that they had produced over 200 vehicles, production was sold out through early Nov and they expected that soon the entire 2009 production would be sold out. Over 1000 customers were awaiting delivery. No further production figures were mentioned in the blog. Joe -----Original Message----- From: triumphs-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:triumphs-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of spook01 Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 8:43 PM To: wbeech at flash.net; 'John Mitchell'; '6 Pack'; triumphs at autox.team.net; StagByTriumph at tscusa.org Subject: Re: [TR] [Fwd: Intersting article] How many cars has Tesla actually built, sold and delivered? Best, Ray ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "'John Mitchell'" ; "'6 Pack'" <6pack at Autox.Team.Net>; ; Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 7:20 PM Subject: Re: [TR] [Fwd: Intersting article] > John, > Thanks for sharing, I'm sure the Lucas Eclectic car will surpass > anything that Tesla can produce.... Except the garage! > > http://www.carlectro.com/node/33 > > > Bill Beecher > '58 TR-3A TS/30766 L (On the road in 2009!) "A Triumph is man's best > friend, it always comes when it is called...of course, some times it > is difficult to make it go" > This list supported in part by the Vintage Triumph Register > http://www.vtr.org > > > Triumphs at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs > > > http://www.team.net/archive > _______________________________________________ > > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > This list supported in part by the Vintage Triumph Register > http://www.vtr.org > > > Triumphs at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs > > > http://www.team.net/archive This list supported in part by the Vintage Triumph Register http://www.vtr.org Triumphs at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs http://www.team.net/archive From nwolf at u.washington.edu Tue Sep 1 23:49:39 2009 From: nwolf at u.washington.edu (nwolf at u.washington.edu) Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 22:49:39 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [TR] [Fwd: Intersting article] Message-ID: According to their press releases, the 500th car was delivered in June of 2009, 109 more in July, and the current total (as of Sept 1) is right around 700. That's more than all the TR8 coupes ever produced (which is not saying much, of course). Anybody on this list have one of those rare beasts? Cheers -Nick '62-ish TR4 Seattle >Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 22:43:13 -0500 >From: "spook01" >Subject: Re: [TR] [Fwd: Intersting article] > >How many cars has Tesla actually built, sold and delivered? >Best, >Ray From jmitch at snet.net Wed Sep 2 04:28:22 2009 From: jmitch at snet.net (John Mitchell) Date: Wed, 02 Sep 2009 06:28:22 -0400 Subject: [TR] tr3 dash switch tool In-Reply-To: <321509.36760.qm@web111616.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <321509.36760.qm@web111616.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4A9E48C6.4070200@snet.net> There's a guy on ebay that makes them in all shapes and sizes. If he doesn't have it listed, drop him a note. John Mitchell johnscudashop Frank Fisher wrote: > i seem to recall someone on the list makes the tubular special wrench for use on the dash switches for the tr3. > any one care to own up? > Frank > _______________________________________________ > > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > This list supported in part by the Vintage Triumph Register > http://www.vtr.org > > > Triumphs at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs > > > http://www.team.net/archive From lherault at bu.edu Wed Sep 2 06:58:13 2009 From: lherault at bu.edu (Ron L'Herault) Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 08:58:13 -0400 Subject: [TR] a peculiar electrical puzzle Message-ID: <002e01ca2bcd$081870f0$6dd6299b@ad.bu.edu> Order a new turn signal switch. I remember mine failing in a similar way. I don't remember if it was on my GT6+, my '71 TR6 or my "73 TR6 Ron L From pdonnel1 at san.rr.com Wed Sep 2 07:33:13 2009 From: pdonnel1 at san.rr.com (John & Pat Donnelly) Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 06:33:13 -0700 Subject: [TR] Low Oil Pressure and Engine Noises In-Reply-To: <4A9DEF63.6090402@bradakis.com> References: <000001ca2b7f$114e5e30$33eb1a90$@rr.com> <4A9DEF63.6090402@bradakis.com> Message-ID: <000901ca2bd1$ec3f96b0$c4bec410$@rr.com> Thanks Mark. I plan to work on the engine this weekend. I'll start with the rocker shaft first, then the bottom end. When cold, idle is at 20, and goes to 70 as revs increase. After water temp comes up to normal the pressure starts dropping. After running for 15 minutes idle pressure is almost 0, and at 3000 rpm it's 35. I used to run the oil pressure on the high side, up around 90, and had it that way for years. Now it's at 70. But, it's only been in the last year that I've noticed the pressure dropping after reaching running temp. One of the sounds could be valve train related. It makes a tin type noise, like a small metal piece rattling around or hitting something. It's not rhythmic or in sync with engine speed, but rather a constant rattle. Another sounds like a shaft wobbling around, sort of like a journal is too big. This one happens as I let off the throttle. It's not as fast as the engine speed, maybe the camshaft? The engine has plenty of pep, and is as fast as I've ever had it in 40 years. The engine went through a total rebuild 8 years ago and has about 40K miles on it. I have my reservations for TFest and want to make sure I make it, so I need to tackle this problem now. Johnnie -----Original Message----- From: triumphs-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:triumphs-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Mark J Bradakis Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 9:07 PM To: triumphs at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [TR] Low Oil Pressure and Engine Noises > The oil pressure on my car is getting too low, and "bad" sounding noises > have started to set in. How low is too low? What sort of pressures are you seeing at idle, at startup and fully warmed? You may want to pull the pan and take a look at some of the rod bearings. A worn rocker shaft can also contribute to noise and low oil pressure. This is easier to check than the rod bearings. Just remove the valve cover and push the rocker arms around, see if you can see any scoring or wear on the shaft. mjb. This list supported in part by the Vintage Triumph Register http://www.vtr.org Triumphs at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs http://www.team.net/archive From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Wed Sep 2 08:32:08 2009 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 07:32:08 -0700 Subject: [TR] Low Oil Pressure and Engine Noises In-Reply-To: <000901ca2bd1$ec3f96b0$c4bec410$@rr.com> Message-ID: <20090902143208349.SAFH29089@cdptpa-omta03.mail.rr.com> > Thanks Mark. I plan to work on the engine this weekend. I'll > start with the > rocker shaft first, then the bottom end. Just my opinion, John, but I wouldn't bother with the rocker shaft. Unless your engine has been modified, the oil to the shaft is metered to essentially no pressure anyway so I don't believe it could cause the kind of drop you are seeing. I'd drop the pan first. The good news is that on a TR4A, you can R&R the rod bearings, main bearings and oil pump without removing the engine from the car. That probably isn't all it needs, but should be enough to get you to TRfest & back. Randall From tswhitez123 at hotmail.com Wed Sep 2 11:08:08 2009 From: tswhitez123 at hotmail.com (tom white) Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 17:08:08 +0000 Subject: [TR] a peculiar electrical puzzle In-Reply-To: <4A9D5C2B.13838.246C6AC@localhost> References: <4A9D5C2B.13838.246C6AC@localhost> Message-ID: You certainly have a odd one there. You could try removing the turn signal assembly from the column and shrink wrapping it with the wires intact to insulate the connections. Large diameter shrink wrap is available at your local electronics store although I wouldn't bet on the Shack. Best regards, Tom _________________________________________________________________ With Windows Live, you can organize, edit, and share your photos. http://www.windowslive.com/Desktop/PhotoGallery From fishplate at charter.net Wed Sep 2 15:00:30 2009 From: fishplate at charter.net (Jeff Scarbrough) Date: Wed, 02 Sep 2009 17:00:30 -0400 Subject: [TR] Low Oil Pressure and Engine Noises In-Reply-To: <000901ca2bd1$ec3f96b0$c4bec410$@rr.com> References: <000001ca2b7f$114e5e30$33eb1a90$@rr.com> <4A9DEF63.6090402@bradakis.com> <000901ca2bd1$ec3f96b0$c4bec410$@rr.com> Message-ID: At 09:33 AM 9/2/2009, John & Pat Donnelly wrote: >The engine has plenty of pep, and is as fast as I've ever had it in 40 >years. A sign of a well-broken in engine. >The engine went through a total rebuild 8 years ago and has about 40K >miles on it. About time for the thrust washers to fall out...which would make some bad noises, and could affect oil pressure. One way orthe other, I bet you'll fin the answer after you drop the oil pan. Jeff Scarbrough 75 TR6 x 1, 76 1500 x 2, 78 1500 x 1, 80 1500 x 0.5 http://www.fishplate.org/vehicles/ Corrosion Acres, Georgia #354 From agraham at execulink.com Wed Sep 2 15:05:22 2009 From: agraham at execulink.com (Angelo Graham) Date: Wed, 02 Sep 2009 17:05:22 -0400 Subject: [TR] TR2/3 front suspension rebuild question Message-ID: <200909022105.n82L5Jsv009587@smtp1.execulink.net> Hello List: Once again, the wisdom of the list is required regarding a front suspension rebuild, specifically the lower outer (trunnion) pivot. The inner steel washers get a rubber sealing band around them, correct? What about the outer paired steel washers - the flat one and the collared one. These fit together. Do they get a rubber band around them as well? The red manual mentions a "grease seal". Is this the rubber band around these paired washers?? How important is the manual instruction on seating the splines on the washers by tapping the lower control arms "out"? Thanks for any help with this. Angelo Graham From dlylis at gmail.com Wed Sep 2 15:27:51 2009 From: dlylis at gmail.com (David Lylis) Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 17:27:51 -0400 Subject: [TR] TR2/3 front suspension rebuild question In-Reply-To: <200909022105.n82L5Jsv009587@smtp1.execulink.net> References: <200909022105.n82L5Jsv009587@smtp1.execulink.net> Message-ID: <2a7657b60909021427q58ec44c9k14f4ac46d45b85cf@mail.gmail.com> With respect to the rubber bands; yes. As to tapping the lower control arms "out", what you are doing is releasing them from the tightening that takes place when you seat the splines. It is to insure they move freely. I speculate that you are asking this because you did not do it before final assembly of the spring plate, etc. Personally I would not take it apart to do it if that is why you ask. On Wed, Sep 2, 2009 at 5:05 PM, Angelo Graham wrote: > Hello List: > Once again, the wisdom of the list is required regarding a front suspension > rebuild, specifically the lower outer (trunnion) pivot. > The inner steel washers get a rubber sealing band around them, correct? > What about the outer paired steel washers - the flat one and the collared > one. These fit together. Do they get a rubber band around them as well? The > red manual mentions a "grease seal". Is this the rubber band around these > paired washers?? > How important is the manual instruction on seating the splines on the > washers by tapping the lower control arms "out"? > Thanks for any help with this. > Angelo Graham > _______________________________________________ > > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > This list supported in part by the Vintage Triumph Register > http://www.vtr.org > > > Triumphs at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs > > > http://www.team.net/archive From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Wed Sep 2 15:29:26 2009 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 14:29:26 -0700 Subject: [TR] TR2/3 front suspension rebuild question In-Reply-To: <200909022105.n82L5Jsv009587@smtp1.execulink.net> References: <200909022105.n82L5Jsv009587@smtp1.execulink.net> Message-ID: <37BAF784B05C46658AB7BA62BE512371@jdnet.deere.com> > The inner steel washers get a rubber sealing band around them, > correct? What about the outer paired steel washers - the flat one and > the collared one. These fit together. Do they get a rubber band > around them as well? Yes, both of the metal thrust washers get rubber bands around them. FWIW, I find it easier to install the bands onto the washer first, then smear the washer faces with grease and install the washer and band as an assembly onto the pin. Same goes for the nylon washers used on the inner pivots. > The red manual mentions a "grease seal". Is this > the rubber band around these paired washers?? Depends on where you are reading. It could be either the rubber bands around the thrust washers (inner or outer, only the outers are 'paired') or the seal that goes between the vertical link and the trunnion body. > How important is the manual instruction on seating the splines on the > washers by tapping the lower control arms "out"? The splines are 'seated' by tightening the nut until the joint is 'solid'. BTW, if you are installing new splined washers, you might want to use a thicker hardware store nut for this step and maybe even give the nut a little help by tapping with a hammer, as some folks have reported stripping the castellated nut threads at this step. Then after both nuts have been tightened, you back them both off by 1.5 to 2.0 flats (so the slots line up with the cotter pin holes) and then tap on the arms to push the splined washers back out against the nuts. I won't say tapping the arms back out is critical, but it seems to me that leaving the splined washers hard against the thrust washers is going to make the joint stiff and possibly even cause excess wear; until they move back out on their own. It only takes a few light blows with a brass-faced hammer to move them, so I've always done so. -- Randall From cfmtr3a at verizon.net Wed Sep 2 16:34:07 2009 From: cfmtr3a at verizon.net (Carl TR) Date: Wed, 02 Sep 2009 18:34:07 -0400 Subject: [TR] rope like material behind B-Post on TR3 In-Reply-To: <200909011808.n81I8VUw020247@smtp1.execulink.net> References: <200909011808.n81I8VUw020247@smtp1.execulink.net> Message-ID: <1836072930974568B1E3A72CFF503C8B@CarlPC> Any one know the part number, a source, specifications of the rope like material behind b-post on the TR3? Thanks Carl -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Carl - Tampa 1961 TR3A TS81802LO Body Off Restoration Completion Date: NATC 2010 http://mysite.verizon.net/cfmtr3a/ From jerryvv at roadrunner.com Wed Sep 2 16:45:24 2009 From: jerryvv at roadrunner.com (Jerry Van Vlack) Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 18:45:24 -0400 Subject: [TR] Low Oil Pressure and Engine Noises References: <000001ca2b7f$114e5e30$33eb1a90$@rr.com><4A9DEF63.6090402@bradakis.com> <000901ca2bd1$ec3f96b0$c4bec410$@rr.com> Message-ID: <063EA1857A954832B1317B2EC505A6D5@userb38463fba5> I had a similar problem several years ago. New rod bearings and a rebuilt oil pump fixed my problem. Look at your oil pump bottom cover very closely. If it is gouged or has wear marks have it resurfaced flat. Remove those wear rings or gouges. Check the side clearances too and if necessary replace the rotor and pump ring. Oil pressure will return nicely. Jerry Van Vlack ----- Original Message ----- From: "John & Pat Donnelly" To: "'Mark J Bradakis'" ; Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 9:33 AM Subject: Re: [TR] Low Oil Pressure and Engine Noises > Thanks Mark. I plan to work on the engine this weekend. I'll start with > the > rocker shaft first, then the bottom end. > When cold, idle is at 20, and goes to 70 as revs increase. After water > temp > comes up to normal the pressure starts dropping. After running for 15 > minutes idle pressure is almost 0, and at 3000 rpm it's 35. > I used to run the oil pressure on the high side, up around 90, and had it > that way for years. Now it's at 70. But, it's only been in the last year > that I've noticed the pressure dropping after reaching running temp. > One of the sounds could be valve train related. It makes a tin type noise, > like a small metal piece rattling around or hitting something. It's not > rhythmic or in sync with engine speed, but rather a constant rattle. > Another sounds like a shaft wobbling around, sort of like a journal is too > big. This one happens as I let off the throttle. It's not as fast as the > engine speed, maybe the camshaft? > The engine has plenty of pep, and is as fast as I've ever had it in 40 > years. The engine went through a total rebuild 8 years ago and has about > 40K > miles on it. I have my reservations for TFest and want to make sure I make > it, so I need to tackle this problem now. > Johnnie From suhringtr36 at comcast.net Wed Sep 2 20:20:58 2009 From: suhringtr36 at comcast.net (Scott Suhring) Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 22:20:58 -0400 Subject: [TR] rope like material behind B-Post on TR3 In-Reply-To: <1836072930974568B1E3A72CFF503C8B@CarlPC> References: <200909011808.n81I8VUw020247@smtp1.execulink.net> <1836072930974568B1E3A72CFF503C8B@CarlPC> Message-ID: <624A0D2D863C40F1B1B8C41E5AD0FB76@Scott> If this is what the interior trim is tacked to, it is actually wood. There is no part number and is held in place by the metal tabs that you need to bend over to hold the wood in place. I just used some polar to replace mine. Scott Suhring Mechanicsburg, PA '70 TR6 '59 TR3 -----Original Message----- From: triumphs-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:triumphs-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Carl TR Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 6:34 PM To: triumphs at autox.team.net Subject: [TR] rope like material behind B-Post on TR3 Any one know the part number, a source, specifications of the rope like material behind b-post on the TR3? Thanks Carl ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- Carl - Tampa 1961 TR3A TS81802LO Body Off Restoration Completion Date: NATC 2010 http://mysite.verizon.net/cfmtr3a/ _______________________________________________ From mlang99 at comcast.net Wed Sep 2 21:28:55 2009 From: mlang99 at comcast.net (Michael Lang) Date: Wed, 02 Sep 2009 20:28:55 -0700 Subject: [TR] Re-use of old brake linings Message-ID: <4A9F37F7.1090104@comcast.net> I've put about 1K miles on my TR3 since getting it back on the road. I took the rear wheels and drums off while investigating a high speed vibration and found that the lining is coming off of one of the rear shoes. I have no idea how old they are, but they were not oil/brake fluif soaked when I took the car apart. I am currently having them relined by a local shop and hoping to have them back in time to go the All British Field Meet next weekend. Does the adhesive that they use to bond brake linings have a shelf life? I guess inquiring minds would like to know. Mike From pdqtr6 at suscom-maine.net Thu Sep 3 05:13:39 2009 From: pdqtr6 at suscom-maine.net (Tom Walling & Wendy Rose) Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2009 07:13:39 -0400 Subject: [TR] rope like material behind B-Post on TR3 In-Reply-To: <624A0D2D863C40F1B1B8C41E5AD0FB76@Scott> References: <200909011808.n81I8VUw020247@smtp1.execulink.net><1836072930974568B1E3A72CFF503C8B@CarlPC> <624A0D2D863C40F1B1B8C41E5AD0FB76@Scott> Message-ID: The thing I removed from the channel on my TR3 looked more like a piece of kraft paper (brown paper bag or brown wrapping paper) that had been dipped in glue and wadded or twisted into a rope-like shape and then stuffed into the groove. It was definitely not solid like a piece of wood. When I get to the point where I have to replace it, I'll probably go with wood - most likely pine. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott Suhring" To: "'Carl TR'" ; Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 10:20 PM Subject: Re: [TR] rope like material behind B-Post on TR3 > If this is what the interior trim is tacked to, it is actually wood. There > is no part number and is held in place by the metal tabs that you need to > bend over to hold the wood in place. I just used some polar to replace > mine. > > Scott Suhring > Mechanicsburg, PA > '70 TR6 > '59 TR3 > > -----Original Message----- > From: triumphs-bounces at autox.team.net > [mailto:triumphs-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Carl TR > Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 6:34 PM > To: triumphs at autox.team.net > Subject: [TR] rope like material behind B-Post on TR3 > > Any one know the part number, a source, specifications of the rope like > material behind b-post on the TR3? > > Thanks > Carl > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---- > Carl - Tampa > 1961 TR3A TS81802LO > Body Off Restoration > Completion Date: NATC 2010 > http://mysite.verizon.net/cfmtr3a/ > _______________________________________________ > _______________________________________________ > > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > This list supported in part by the Vintage Triumph Register > http://www.vtr.org > > > Triumphs at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs > > > http://www.team.net/archive From opposumking at verizon.net Thu Sep 3 06:38:17 2009 From: opposumking at verizon.net (Nolan) Date: Thu, 03 Sep 2009 08:38:17 -0400 Subject: [TR] Re-use of old brake linings References: <4A9F37F7.1090104@comcast.net> Message-ID: <000901ca2c93$6c2f1500$230bfea9@mde.state.md.us> Don't claim to have an answer to your question about the shelf life of the adhesives, but this PDF has lots of information on the chemical bonding of lining to shoes and pads. http://www.conklinequipment.com/pdf/LT-4421Friction_Manual.pdf I've had a few shoes fail on me over the years. Reading through the PDF I see that I might have been the cause. I tend to use cleaning agents liberally on braking parts, and some of them are solvents for the bonding adhesive. From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Thu Sep 3 11:03:00 2009 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2009 10:03:00 -0700 Subject: [TR] rope like material behind B-Post on TR3 In-Reply-To: References: <200909011808.n81I8VUw020247@smtp1.execulink.net><1836072930974568B1E3A72CFF503C8B@CarlPC><624A0D2D863C40F1B1B8C41E5AD0FB76@Scott> Message-ID: <585A1FCACDF04B1B91E16601D9BD7569@jdnet.deere.com> > The thing I removed from the channel on my TR3 looked more like a piece of > kraft paper (brown paper bag or brown wrapping paper) that had been dipped > in glue and wadded or twisted into a rope-like shape and then stuffed into > the groove. It was definitely not solid like a piece of wood. That was the way I remembered it too, although the material reminded me more of oakum. I could probably take a picture Saturday, if that would help. -- Randall From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Thu Sep 3 11:05:13 2009 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2009 10:05:13 -0700 Subject: [TR] Low Oil Pressure and Engine Noises In-Reply-To: <063EA1857A954832B1317B2EC505A6D5@userb38463fba5> References: <000001ca2b7f$114e5e30$33eb1a90$@rr.com><4A9DEF63.6090402@bradakis.com><000901ca2bd1$ec3f96b0$c4bec410$@rr.com> <063EA1857A954832B1317B2EC505A6D5@userb38463fba5> Message-ID: <20A997DA8C85463F8F590BEC38357A7C@jdnet.deere.com> > Check the side clearances too and if necessary replace > the rotor and pump ring. If you do replace the rotor though, check to be sure that the new one is pinned to the shaft. I've read several reports of replacement rotors that were pressed onto a splined shaft, and fail quickly in use. -- Randall From carlsereda at aol.com Thu Sep 3 15:52:17 2009 From: carlsereda at aol.com (carlsereda) Date: Thu, 03 Sep 2009 14:52:17 -0700 Subject: [TR] Triumphs Digest, Vol 3, Issue 414 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3BC825DF.6054.46C1.994B.B05C5993B2E4@aol.com> Would you advise to pin the shaft after the fact if you have one of the pressed on style (bought supposedly as NOS @ and for sure @ NOS pricing!)? Carl > Check the side clearances too and if necessary replace > the rotor and pump ring. If you do replace the rotor though, check to be sure that the new one is pinned to the shaft. I've read several reports of replacement rotors that were pressed onto a splined shaft, and fail quickly in use. -- Randall From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Thu Sep 3 16:36:46 2009 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2009 15:36:46 -0700 Subject: [TR] Oil pump woes (was Triumphs Digest, Vol 3, Issue 414) In-Reply-To: <3BC825DF.6054.46C1.994B.B05C5993B2E4@aol.com> References: <3BC825DF.6054.46C1.994B.B05C5993B2E4@aol.com> Message-ID: > Would you advise to pin the shaft after the fact if you have one of > the pressed on style (bought supposedly as NOS @ and for sure @ NOS > pricing!)? I've got an old note from Don Elliott saying it worked for him; perhaps he will chime in here with more direct (and updated) information. But with new rotors only $40 from TRF, I'd probably replace them. As I recall the discussion, it was felt that the knurled shaft was not hardened as the original shaft was, which might make it prone to break at the slot for the drive tang. -- Randall From jerryvv at roadrunner.com Thu Sep 3 17:32:51 2009 From: jerryvv at roadrunner.com (Jerry Van Vlack) Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2009 19:32:51 -0400 Subject: [TR] Oil pump woes (was Triumphs Digest, Vol 3, Issue 414) References: <3BC825DF.6054.46C1.994B.B05C5993B2E4@aol.com> Message-ID: I recall what Randall says as well, although I also recall that Don obtained some drill rod (a bit tougher steel) and either had a shaft made or made one himself. He has a nice write up somewhere..........it may be on the VTR website under the maintenance tips. Don't have time to look right now. I replaced mine before I knew about all of this and I've had several thousand trouble free miles, maybe close to 6000 at this point and I don't exactly baby my car. As an example 4 of us a few years back did a 2500 mile trip and needed to get home on our last day of the trip. I can say that almost no one passed us the entire length of the Indiana and Ohio Turnpikes on one of the hottest days of July. I recall that we maintained about 3500 rpm in overdrive. I enjoyed the looks on peoples faces when 4 TR's passed them and mine was the newest as a 1966. Fun times with great friends, but that's what this hobby is about. JVV ----- Original Message ----- From: "Randall" To: "'carlsereda'" ; Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2009 6:36 PM Subject: [TR] Oil pump woes (was Triumphs Digest, Vol 3, Issue 414) >> Would you advise to pin the shaft after the fact if you have one of >> the pressed on style (bought supposedly as NOS @ and for sure @ NOS >> pricing!)? > > I've got an old note from Don Elliott saying it worked for him; perhaps he > will chime in here with more direct (and updated) information. > > But with new rotors only $40 from TRF, I'd probably replace them. As I > recall the discussion, it was felt that the knurled shaft was not hardened > as the original shaft was, which might make it prone to break at the slot > for the drive tang. > > -- Randall From fogbro1 at comcast.net Thu Sep 3 18:18:30 2009 From: fogbro1 at comcast.net (Ed Woods) Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2009 20:18:30 -0400 Subject: [TR] Wiper motor mounting Message-ID: <8F820AF74032415999BAC08F50AA2C30@Edscomputer> List, I've purchased a new wiper motor mounting kit which, of course, includes the three rubber bushings that are supposed to occupy the three holes in the steel plate under the wiper motor. Same kit for TR3, 4, 250, 6 and probably others. Back in the days of Lucas and Lucas parts I can recall installing these bushings w/o a whole lot of cussing. Well, today, the air was blue, but to no avail. All I managed to do was to scratch some new paintwork. Has anyone on the list installed these bushings recently (recently as in non Lucas)? What's the secret to installing them with a minimum of damage to paint, tools and as little blood as possible? TIA, Ed Woods From suhringtr36 at comcast.net Thu Sep 3 19:53:55 2009 From: suhringtr36 at comcast.net (Scott Suhring) Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2009 21:53:55 -0400 Subject: [TR] Wiper motor mounting In-Reply-To: <8F820AF74032415999BAC08F50AA2C30@Edscomputer> References: <8F820AF74032415999BAC08F50AA2C30@Edscomputer> Message-ID: <95153CB762204164A30D71176332126D@Scott> I recall that I ended up cutting mine to get them to fit. Once installed, you can't see the cut. Scott Suhring Mechanicsburg, PA '70 TR6 '59 TR3 -----Original Message----- From: triumphs-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:triumphs-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Ed Woods Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2009 8:19 PM To: triumphs at autox.team.net Subject: [TR] Wiper motor mounting List, I've purchased a new wiper motor mounting kit which, of course, includes the three rubber bushings that are supposed to occupy the three holes in the steel plate under the wiper motor. Same kit for TR3, 4, 250, 6 and probably others. Back in the days of Lucas and Lucas parts I can recall installing these bushings w/o a whole lot of cussing. Well, today, the air was blue, but to no avail. All I managed to do was to scratch some new paintwork. Has anyone on the list installed these bushings recently (recently as in non Lucas)? What's the secret to installing them with a minimum of damage to paint, tools and as little blood as possible? TIA, Ed Woods This list supported in part by the Vintage Triumph Register http://www.vtr.org Triumphs at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs http://www.team.net/archive From tr4zest at gmail.com Fri Sep 4 02:40:10 2009 From: tr4zest at gmail.com (Brian Jones) Date: Fri, 4 Sep 2009 04:40:10 -0400 Subject: [TR] Wiper motor mounting In-Reply-To: <8F820AF74032415999BAC08F50AA2C30@Edscomputer> References: <8F820AF74032415999BAC08F50AA2C30@Edscomputer> Message-ID: Ed, I did this earlier this year, using a TRF kit. I don't remember it being all that frustrating. As I recall, I put silicone spray lubricant around the hole in the mounting plate and then rolled the rubber 'grommet' up like a Taco and pushed its nose into the hole. I used a combination of needle nose pliars to pull and an old (rounded) flat blade screwdriver to push the piece into place. The rubber can take quite a bit of abuse and stretching. Brian On Thu, Sep 3, 2009 at 8:18 PM, Ed Woods wrote: > List, > > I've purchased a new wiper motor mounting kit which, of course, includes > the > three rubber bushings that are supposed to occupy the three holes in the > steel > plate under the wiper motor. Same kit for TR3, 4, 250, 6 and probably > others. > Back in the days of Lucas and Lucas parts I can recall installing these > bushings w/o a whole lot of cussing. Well, today, the air was blue, but to > no > avail. All I managed to do was to scratch some new paintwork. > > Has anyone on the list installed these bushings recently (recently as in > non > Lucas)? What's the secret to installing them with a minimum of damage to > paint, tools and as little blood as possible? > > TIA, > > Ed Woods > _______________________________________________ > > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > This list supported in part by the Vintage Triumph Register > http://www.vtr.org > > > Triumphs at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs > > > http://www.team.net/archive From auprichard at comcast.net Fri Sep 4 05:13:02 2009 From: auprichard at comcast.net (Andrew Uprichard) Date: Fri, 4 Sep 2009 07:13:02 -0400 Subject: [TR] Wiper motor mounting In-Reply-To: <8F820AF74032415999BAC08F50AA2C30@Edscomputer> References: <8F820AF74032415999BAC08F50AA2C30@Edscomputer> Message-ID: <40B4036975DA47E3A4052710193D014F@DCH6RFC1> I had exactly the same problem with a newly-restored TR3. Since I don't intend to be out much in the rain and hence won't be pushing the limits of endurance of the wiper motor, I gave up and used rubber washers on either side of the plate. Andrew Uprichard -----Original Message----- From: triumphs-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:triumphs-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Ed Woods Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2009 8:19 PM To: triumphs at autox.team.net Subject: [TR] Wiper motor mounting List, I've purchased a new wiper motor mounting kit which, of course, includes the three rubber bushings that are supposed to occupy the three holes in the steel plate under the wiper motor. Same kit for TR3, 4, 250, 6 and probably others. Back in the days of Lucas and Lucas parts I can recall installing these bushings w/o a whole lot of cussing. Well, today, the air was blue, but to no avail. All I managed to do was to scratch some new paintwork. Has anyone on the list installed these bushings recently (recently as in non Lucas)? What's the secret to installing them with a minimum of damage to paint, tools and as little blood as possible? TIA, Ed Woods This list supported in part by the Vintage Triumph Register http://www.vtr.org Triumphs at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs http://www.team.net/archive From auprichard at comcast.net Fri Sep 4 05:19:07 2009 From: auprichard at comcast.net (Andrew Uprichard) Date: Fri, 4 Sep 2009 07:19:07 -0400 Subject: [TR] Wiper motor mounting References: <8F820AF74032415999BAC08F50AA2C30@Edscomputer> Message-ID: <576886789A09435FAC84808F49F315FD@DCH6RFC1> Correction: I remember now that I cut the bushings as Scott suggested. Andrew -----Original Message----- From: Andrew Uprichard [mailto:auprichard at comcast.net] Sent: Friday, September 04, 2009 7:13 AM To: 'Ed Woods'; 'triumphs at autox.team.net' Subject: RE: [TR] Wiper motor mounting I had exactly the same problem with a newly-restored TR3. Since I don't intend to be out much in the rain and hence won't be pushing the limits of endurance of the wiper motor, I gave up and used rubber washers on either side of the plate. Andrew Uprichard -----Original Message----- From: triumphs-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:triumphs-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Ed Woods Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2009 8:19 PM To: triumphs at autox.team.net Subject: [TR] Wiper motor mounting List, I've purchased a new wiper motor mounting kit which, of course, includes the three rubber bushings that are supposed to occupy the three holes in the steel plate under the wiper motor. Same kit for TR3, 4, 250, 6 and probably others. Back in the days of Lucas and Lucas parts I can recall installing these bushings w/o a whole lot of cussing. Well, today, the air was blue, but to no avail. All I managed to do was to scratch some new paintwork. Has anyone on the list installed these bushings recently (recently as in non Lucas)? What's the secret to installing them with a minimum of damage to paint, tools and as little blood as possible? TIA, Ed Woods This list supported in part by the Vintage Triumph Register http://www.vtr.org Triumphs at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs http://www.team.net/archive From blambert at socal.rr.com Fri Sep 4 07:56:41 2009 From: blambert at socal.rr.com (D&B Lambert) Date: Fri, 4 Sep 2009 06:56:41 -0700 Subject: [TR] Wiper motor mounting In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20090904135646957.PJHA8470@hrndva-omta01.mail.rr.com> If you don't have silicone lying around you can use a dab of regular coking (vegetable) oil. Also, I heated the grommets in boiling water for a few minutes. After fishing them out with a pair of needle nose they cool down to handling temp quickly, but are still quite pliable for several minutes. Mine went in relatively easily. Dennis > As I recall, I put silicone spray lubricant around the > hole in the mounting plate and then rolled the rubber 'grommet' up like a > Taco and pushed its nose into the hole. I used a combination of needle > nose > pliars to pull and an old (rounded) flat blade screwdriver to push the > piece > into place. The rubber can take quite a bit of abuse and stretching. > > Brian From tr4zest at gmail.com Fri Sep 4 09:51:45 2009 From: tr4zest at gmail.com (Brian Jones) Date: Fri, 4 Sep 2009 11:51:45 -0400 Subject: [TR] Wiper motor mounting In-Reply-To: <20090904135646957.PJHA8470@hrndva-omta01.mail.rr.com> References: <20090904135646957.PJHA8470@hrndva-omta01.mail.rr.com> Message-ID: ..now you mention it Dennis, I warmed my grommets with a heat gun to improve their flexibility... Brian On Fri, Sep 4, 2009 at 9:56 AM, D&B Lambert wrote: > If you don't have silicone lying around you can use a dab of regular coking > (vegetable) oil. Also, I heated the grommets in boiling water for a few > minutes. After fishing them out with a pair of needle nose they cool down > to handling temp quickly, but are still quite pliable for several minutes. > Mine went in relatively easily. > > Dennis > > > > As I recall, I put silicone spray lubricant around the > > hole in the mounting plate and then rolled the rubber 'grommet' up like a > > Taco and pushed its nose into the hole. I used a combination of needle > > nose > > pliars to pull and an old (rounded) flat blade screwdriver to push the > > piece > > into place. The rubber can take quite a bit of abuse and stretching. > > > > Brian > _______________________________________________ > > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > This list supported in part by the Vintage Triumph Register > http://www.vtr.org > > > Triumphs at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs > > > http://www.team.net/archive From frede.thomas2 at verizon.net Fri Sep 4 10:37:14 2009 From: frede.thomas2 at verizon.net (FRED E THOMAS) Date: Fri, 04 Sep 2009 12:37:14 -0400 Subject: [TR] Wiper motor mounting References: <8F820AF74032415999BAC08F50AA2C30@Edscomputer> <576886789A09435FAC84808F49F315FD@DCH6RFC1> Message-ID: <771A03456E1E4BAD8384746546BFE83F@fred8kwiskhcfu> Me Too !!!!!----- ====================================================== From: "Andrew Uprichard" To: "'Ed Woods'" ; Sent: Friday, September 04, 2009 7:19 AM Subject: Re: [TR] Wiper motor mounting > Correction: I remember now that I cut the bushings as Scott suggested. > Andrew > > -----Original Message----- > From: Andrew Uprichard [mailto:auprichard at comcast.net] > Sent: Friday, September 04, 2009 7:13 AM > To: 'Ed Woods'; 'triumphs at autox.team.net' > Subject: RE: [TR] Wiper motor mounting > > I had exactly the same problem with a newly-restored TR3. Since I don't > intend to be out much in the rain and hence won't be pushing the limits of > endurance of the wiper motor, I gave up and used rubber washers on either > side of the plate. > > Andrew Uprichard > > -----Original Message----- > From: triumphs-bounces at autox.team.net > [mailto:triumphs-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Ed Woods > Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2009 8:19 PM > To: triumphs at autox.team.net > Subject: [TR] Wiper motor mounting > > List, > > I've purchased a new wiper motor mounting kit which, of course, includes > the > three rubber bushings that are supposed to occupy the three holes in the > steel > plate under the wiper motor. Same kit for TR3, 4, 250, 6 and probably > others. > Back in the days of Lucas and Lucas parts I can recall installing these > bushings w/o a whole lot of cussing. Well, today, the air was blue, but to > no > avail. All I managed to do was to scratch some new paintwork. > > Has anyone on the list installed these bushings recently (recently as in > non > Lucas)? What's the secret to installing them with a minimum of damage to > paint, tools and as little blood as possible? > > TIA, > > Ed Woods > This list supported in part by the Vintage Triumph Register > http://www.vtr.org > > > Triumphs at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs > > > http://www.team.net/archive > _______________________________________________ > > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > This list supported in part by the Vintage Triumph Register > http://www.vtr.org > > > Triumphs at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs > > > http://www.team.net/archive From mmarr at notwires.com Fri Sep 4 10:59:31 2009 From: mmarr at notwires.com (Michael Marr) Date: Fri, 4 Sep 2009 11:59:31 -0500 Subject: [TR] Wiper motor mounting References: <20090904135646957.PJHA8470@hrndva-omta01.mail.rr.com> Message-ID: > ..now you mention it Dennis, I warmed my grommets with a heat gun to > improve > their flexibility... > > Brian > I had a friend that tried that once - he was bow-legged for a week. Mike From tr4zest at gmail.com Fri Sep 4 11:55:54 2009 From: tr4zest at gmail.com (Brian Jones) Date: Fri, 4 Sep 2009 13:55:54 -0400 Subject: [TR] Wiper motor mounting In-Reply-To: References: <20090904135646957.PJHA8470@hrndva-omta01.mail.rr.com> Message-ID: He must have had small grommets, then, Dennis, On Fri, Sep 4, 2009 at 12:59 PM, Michael Marr wrote: > > > > ..now you mention it Dennis, I warmed my grommets with a heat gun to >> improve >> their flexibility... >> >> Brian >> >> I had a friend that tried that once - he was bow-legged for a week. > > Mike From fogbro1 at comcast.net Fri Sep 4 14:13:08 2009 From: fogbro1 at comcast.net (Ed Woods) Date: Fri, 4 Sep 2009 16:13:08 -0400 Subject: [TR] Wiper motor mounting References: <20090904135646957.PJHA8470@hrndva-omta01.mail.rr.com> Message-ID: List, As a number of Listers suggested, I cut 'em and used detergent to ease them in. Two cuts at 90 degrees on one side and I was able to install them by hand. No scratches, no blood, little cussing. Maybe 30 years ago my fingers would have been strong enough to push them into place w/o cutting. However, I really believe that the original Lucas grommets were easier to install (for whatever reason). Thanks to all for your suggestions. Ed Woods From diggle at clear.net.nz Fri Sep 4 15:21:55 2009 From: diggle at clear.net.nz (Jim and Diggle) Date: Sat, 05 Sep 2009 09:21:55 +1200 Subject: [TR] Don Elliots oil pump article Message-ID: Heres the link to Don Elliots oil pump article: http://www.torontotriumph.com/suite/list/news.php?id=11 Jim and the 1962 TR4 From triumphstag at gmail.com Fri Sep 4 23:03:46 2009 From: triumphstag at gmail.com (sujit roy) Date: Fri, 4 Sep 2009 22:03:46 -0700 Subject: [TR] Temp compensator gaskets wanted for ZS 175 CD-2 Message-ID: Any one willing to sell me a few gaskets for the temp. compensators. I don't want buy the complete rebuild kit. I just need to overhaul the compensators. I need 4 in total: 2 large ones and 2 small one. They appear flat in nature. BTW This is for my '71 Stag Thanks, Sujit -- Sujit Roy, Realtor Keller Williams Realty, Cupertino, CA (408) 839-8359 roysrealty.com From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Sat Sep 5 00:05:01 2009 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Fri, 4 Sep 2009 23:05:01 -0700 Subject: [TR] Temp compensator gaskets wanted for ZS 175 CD-2 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20090905060501901.FCLJ8566@cdptpa-omta04.mail.rr.com> > Any one willing to sell me a few gaskets for the temp. > compensators. It appears that TRF has them. P/N ZEB17946 and ZEB17947, about $2 each. Randall From coefront at shaw.ca Sat Sep 5 12:54:49 2009 From: coefront at shaw.ca (Mike Coe) Date: Sat, 5 Sep 2009 12:54:49 -0600 Subject: [TR] Tonneau cover purchase Message-ID: I'd appreciate purchasing from anyone a tonneau cover for my TR8. One from a TR7 would also apply. Thanks very much. Mike. coefront at shaw.ca From TRDOCTOR at aol.com Sat Sep 5 12:55:56 2009 From: TRDOCTOR at aol.com (TRDOCTOR at aol.com) Date: Sat, 5 Sep 2009 14:55:56 EDT Subject: [TR] Door Check Straps Message-ID: Changed the door check strap on the driver's side of the GT6 today. It doesn't seem to want to seat correctly in the body. Anyone BTDT? TIA Sam From carlsereda at aol.com Sat Sep 5 13:20:01 2009 From: carlsereda at aol.com (carlsereda) Date: Sat, 05 Sep 2009 12:20:01 -0700 Subject: [TR] TR oil pump.. and crank timing gear Message-ID: <3D69A117.1810.43B5.9865.FCAB339371D7@aol.com> Thanks for forwarding tips Jim and Randall (and anyone I might have missed), Disappointed that this NOS oil pump rotor is of the "soft shafted, unpinned" variety. But tossing is cheaper compared to later failure. Rotor seemed soft as well. I also have a NOS crank timing gear.. it seems softer than original too. ('ping' sound and 'file' test compared to original). Where can one get a properly designed and hardened crank timing gear??? I know BPNW sells a good trio set (gears and chain) but I already have a NOS cam gear from Roth Brother's British that pings like 'tool steel' and is 'blackened' for rust protection and was in a Stanpart box with cosmoline, etc. And I have an AE boxed TR timing chain and it looks real good too - every link is marked AE! So a soft crank gear seems like a bad idea... Anyone test a TRF TR timing gear lately? Regards, Carl '63 TR4 since '74 From rengrave at verizon.net Sun Sep 6 08:14:30 2009 From: rengrave at verizon.net (Wayne) Date: Sun, 06 Sep 2009 10:14:30 -0400 Subject: [TR] Master Cylinder rebuild question Message-ID: I just finished rebuilding my master cylinder on my 73 TR6 last night. I honed the bore to get rid of a few inperfections and endded up with a pretty good bore, not mirror finish but smooth. I used TRF rebuild kit and after I installed the pistons with the new seals the pistons did not slide out on their own with the tension of the springs. I coated the bore with DOT 4 brake fluid but I had to tap the master cylinder housing on the bench to get the pistons to return to the front of the bore. Is this normal? Should the springs return the pistons back to the front (servo side) of the bore with the master cylinder on the bench? Will it work OK once the cylinder is full of fluid and the hydraulic pressure will cause the pistons to fine their location in the bore? Is it because the seals are new and tight and they will wear in? Wayne 73 TR6 From rengrave at verizon.net Sun Sep 6 09:55:52 2009 From: rengrave at verizon.net (Wayne) Date: Sun, 06 Sep 2009 11:55:52 -0400 Subject: [TR] Master Cylinder rebuild question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5F554E5F46D54F529D2E0A5F0DDC6F8D@RossFamily> Thanks Tom, I feel better now. I already have the master cylinder on the car with the internals just wet with fluid. I have all new brake lines/hoses, if I just fill the M/C resevoir with fluid and pump the pedal keeping an eye on the levels in the resevoir so as not to let air in, and bleed one wheel at a time. Won't this fill the master cylinder and all the lines? Wayne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Householder" To: "Wayne" Sent: Sunday, September 06, 2009 10:40 AM Subject: Re: [TR] Master Cylinder rebuild question > You should fill the master cylinder before you try to bleed the system > eliminating as much air as possible, the seals will wear in > and the hydraulics will overcome the resistance > > tom > > On Sep 6, 2009, at 10:14 AM, Wayne wrote: > >> I just finished rebuilding my master cylinder on my 73 TR6 last night. >> I honed the bore to get rid of a few inperfections and endded up with a >> pretty >> good >> bore, not mirror finish but smooth. >> I used TRF rebuild kit and after I installed the pistons with the new >> seals >> the pistons >> did not slide out on their own with the tension of the springs. >> I coated the bore with DOT 4 brake fluid but I had to tap the master >> cylinder >> housing >> on the bench to get the pistons to return to the front of the bore. >> >> Is this normal? >> Should the springs return the pistons back to the front (servo side) of >> the >> bore with the >> master cylinder on the bench? >> Will it work OK once the cylinder is full of fluid and the hydraulic >> pressure >> will cause the >> pistons to fine their location in the bore? >> Is it because the seals are new and tight and they will wear in? >> >> >> Wayne >> 73 TR6 >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> This list supported in part by the Vintage Triumph Register >> http://www.vtr.org >> >> >> Triumphs at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs >> >> >> http://www.team.net/archive From rengrave at verizon.net Sun Sep 6 11:13:08 2009 From: rengrave at verizon.net (Wayne) Date: Sun, 06 Sep 2009 13:13:08 -0400 Subject: [TR] Clutch slave rebuild Message-ID: <465D573B76F9492589A5C34F63A7BD20@RossFamily> I'm about to rebuild the clutch slave cylinder. I have TRF kit. and I have a new clutch master cylinder I purchased from TRF about 9 years ago, hardly used for 1 summer, has been sitting on the car in my garage for the last 9 years. Both the slave and the master are still connected by the flex hose. I plan on rebuilding the slave but I think the master will be ok. Any tips on the rebuild? Haven't looked at it yet, but if the slave bore is pitted, I plan to hone it like I just did for the brake master cylinder. I hope the surface finish of the bore will be smooth enough to seal. Do I need a mirror finish or the will the honed finish with small scratches be ok? Wayne 73 TR6 From amfoto1 at aol.com Sun Sep 6 12:56:34 2009 From: amfoto1 at aol.com (Alan Myers) Date: Sun, 06 Sep 2009 14:56:34 -0400 Subject: [TR] TR oil pump.. and crank timing gear In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8CBFD3AE39441B9-4274-14295@webmail-d006.sysops.aol.com> Hi Carl, I hope you are doing well. Have you considered taking some of those parts in to a shop to see if they might be hardened through one process or another? I've heard of?folks pinning the unpinned rotor to?the?shaft in the?oil pump.?I think I read a post or article by Greg Solow about it, in fact. Alan Myers San Jose, California amfoto1 at aol.com '62 TR4 CT17602L http://www.triumphowners.com/640 -----Original Message----- From: triumphs-request at autox.team.net Message: 3 Date: Sat, 05 Sep 2009 12:20:01 -0700 From: carlsereda Subject: [TR] TR oil pump.. and crank timing gear To: triumphs at autox.team.net Message-ID: <3D69A117.1810.43B5.9865.FCAB339371D7 at aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Thanks for forwarding tips Jim and Randall (and anyone I might have missed), Disappointed that this NOS oil pump rotor is of the "soft shafted, unpinned" variety. But tossing is cheaper compared to later failure. Rotor seemed soft as well. I also have a NOS crank timing gear.. it seems softer than original too. ('ping' sound and 'file' test compared to original). Where can one get a properly designed and hardened crank timing gear??? I know BPNW sells a good trio set (gears and chain) but I already have a NOS cam gear from Roth Brother's British that pings like 'tool steel' and is 'blackened' for rust protection and was in a Stanpart box with cosmoline, etc. And I have an AE boxed TR timing chain and it looks real good too - every link is marked AE! So a soft crank gear seems like a bad idea... Anyone test a TRF TR timing gear lately? Regards, Carl '63 TR4 since '74 ------------------------------ From pdonnel1 at san.rr.com Sun Sep 6 13:08:04 2009 From: pdonnel1 at san.rr.com (John & Pat Donnelly) Date: Sun, 6 Sep 2009 12:08:04 -0700 Subject: [TR] Low Oil Pressure and Engine Noises In-Reply-To: <20A997DA8C85463F8F590BEC38357A7C@jdnet.deere.com> References: <000001ca2b7f$114e5e30$33eb1a90$@rr.com><4A9DEF63.6090402@bradakis.com><000901ca2bd1$ec3f96b0$c4bec410$@rr.com> <063EA1857A954832B1317B2EC505A6D5@userb38463fba5> <20A997DA8C85463F8F590BEC38357A7C@jdnet.deere.com> Message-ID: <000301ca2f25$5cf53670$16dfa350$@rr.com> All, I dropped the oil pan today and pulled the pump. Check out the ugliness I found inside, http://www.flickr.com/photos/42214313 at N05/3893953988/ Pitted spindle, cracked (in two places) rotor and scored inside. How does this happen? If everyone agrees this is the cause of my low oil pressure I'll order a new pump right away. I really don't want to pull the rob bearings if possible. Oh and BTW, the spindle is NOT pinned. Johnnie -----Original Message----- From: triumphs-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:triumphs-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Randall Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2009 10:05 AM To: triumphs at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [TR] Low Oil Pressure and Engine Noises > Check the side clearances too and if necessary replace > the rotor and pump ring. If you do replace the rotor though, check to be sure that the new one is pinned to the shaft. I've read several reports of replacement rotors that were pressed onto a splined shaft, and fail quickly in use. -- Randall This list supported in part by the Vintage Triumph Register http://www.vtr.org Triumphs at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs http://www.team.net/archive From mark at bradakis.com Sun Sep 6 13:21:33 2009 From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J Bradakis) Date: Sun, 06 Sep 2009 13:21:33 -0600 Subject: [TR] Low Oil Pressure and Engine Noises In-Reply-To: <000301ca2f25$5cf53670$16dfa350$@rr.com> References: <000001ca2b7f$114e5e30$33eb1a90$@rr.com><4A9DEF63.6090402@bradakis.com><000901ca2bd1$ec3f96b0$c4bec410$@rr.com> <063EA1857A954832B1317B2EC505A6D5@userb38463fba5> <20A997DA8C85463F8F590BEC38357A7C@jdnet.deere.com> <000301ca2f25$5cf53670$16dfa350$@rr.com> Message-ID: <4AA40BBD.5020203@bradakis.com> Wow. Something hard got into the pump housing, either sucked through the intake or a bit of the pump itself that broke off. I hate to say this, but I'd take a good look at all the bearings, rod and main, see what shape they are in. Check the bottom of the sump for chunks. And definitely get a new pump on the way. Oddly enough, friday afternoon I finally got this TR6 motor in the car and went to get it ready to fire up. Couldn't get any oil pressure, though a number of things were tried. So when the shop opens up tuesday morning I'll be pulling the pan, hope I don't find anything like your fractured pump! mjb. From pdonnel1 at san.rr.com Sun Sep 6 13:42:17 2009 From: pdonnel1 at san.rr.com (John & Pat Donnelly) Date: Sun, 6 Sep 2009 12:42:17 -0700 Subject: [TR] Low Oil Pressure and Engine Noises In-Reply-To: <4AA40BBD.5020203@bradakis.com> References: <000001ca2b7f$114e5e30$33eb1a90$@rr.com><4A9DEF63.6090402@bradakis.com><000901ca2bd1$ec3f96b0$c4bec410$@rr.com> <063EA1857A954832B1317B2EC505A6D5@userb38463fba5> <20A997DA8C85463F8F590BEC38357A7C@jdnet.deere.com> <000301ca2f25$5cf53670$16dfa350$@rr.com> <4AA40BBD.5020203@bradakis.com> Message-ID: <000401ca2f2a$24863eb0$6d92bc10$@rr.com> All, Now that I have to buy a new oil pump, and need to find the "pinned" version, who sells them? TRF, Moss, BPNW, VB? Anybody know a known-good source, or am I the guinea pig? Johnnie '67 TR4A -----Original Message----- From: triumphs-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:triumphs-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Mark J Bradakis Sent: Sunday, September 06, 2009 12:22 PM To: triumphs at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [TR] Low Oil Pressure and Engine Noises Wow. Something hard got into the pump housing, either sucked through the intake or a bit of the pump itself that broke off. I hate to say this, but I'd take a good look at all the bearings, rod and main, see what shape they are in. Check the bottom of the sump for chunks. And definitely get a new pump on the way. Oddly enough, friday afternoon I finally got this TR6 motor in the car and went to get it ready to fire up. Couldn't get any oil pressure, though a number of things were tried. So when the shop opens up tuesday morning I'll be pulling the pan, hope I don't find anything like your fractured pump! mjb. This list supported in part by the Vintage Triumph Register http://www.vtr.org Triumphs at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs http://www.team.net/archive From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Sun Sep 6 14:08:31 2009 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Sun, 6 Sep 2009 13:08:31 -0700 Subject: [TR] Low Oil Pressure and Engine Noises In-Reply-To: <000301ca2f25$5cf53670$16dfa350$@rr.com> Message-ID: <20090906200831268.PGGQ16127@cdptpa-omta02.mail.rr.com> > Check out the ugliness I > found inside, > http://www.flickr.com/photos/42214313 at N05/3893953988/ Ugly indeed. I've never seen that kind of damage to an oil pump, but it almost looks as though it managed to suck some FOD up from the pan and then tore itself up trying to pass it. Was the screen in good condition? > If everyone agrees this is the cause of my low oil pressure > I'll order a new > pump right away. I really don't want to pull the rob bearings > if possible. Very clearly a contributing factor, including the broken rotor (which heats the oil in addition to allowing it to leak past the pump). But IMO it would be foolish not to change the rod bearings; and personally I would at least inspect the main bearings as well. There is a lot of metal missing from those rotors, and I doubt the oil filter caught it all. Bearing inserts are really cheap compared to repairing the damage if one fails/spins. And even if the crank surfaces have some damage/wear, new inserts will be better than ignoring the problem. I would also pull the oil pump driveshaft out, and inspect it for damage (bent tang where it drives the pump). Sorry, I know that's not what you want to hear, but that's my opinion and what I would do if it were my car. Randall From pryner at verizon.net Sun Sep 6 14:26:42 2009 From: pryner at verizon.net (Peter Ryner) Date: Sun, 06 Sep 2009 16:26:42 -0400 Subject: [TR] Low Oil Pressure and Engine Noises In-Reply-To: <20090906200831268.PGGQ16127@cdptpa-omta02.mail.rr.com> References: <20090906200831268.PGGQ16127@cdptpa-omta02.mail.rr.com> Message-ID: <3D305CCB43F341CBB7E65BFFB77F5A10@PetePC> Randall is right on. It is false economy (from my early repair manuals) not to open the bearings and at least check them out - I would just replace the rod bearings them as a matter of course. You may not have any damage from the debris in the oil pump, but if you've had low oil pressure you may have damaged the bearings anyway. The main bearings are a little more problem to change with the engine in the car, but I would change them if there is any wear. Not a bad idea about the pump shaft too. My $.02 input Pete ----- Original Message ----- From: "Randall" To: "'John & Pat Donnelly'" ; Sent: Sunday, September 06, 2009 4:08 PM Subject: Re: [TR] Low Oil Pressure and Engine Noises >> Check out the ugliness I >> found inside, >> http://www.flickr.com/photos/42214313 at N05/3893953988/ > > Ugly indeed. I've never seen that kind of damage to an oil pump, but it > almost looks as though it managed to suck some FOD up from the pan and > then > tore itself up trying to pass it. Was the screen in good condition? > >> If everyone agrees this is the cause of my low oil pressure >> I'll order a new >> pump right away. I really don't want to pull the rob bearings >> if possible. > > Very clearly a contributing factor, including the broken rotor (which > heats > the oil in addition to allowing it to leak past the pump). > > But IMO it would be foolish not to change the rod bearings; and personally > I > would at least inspect the main bearings as well. There is a lot of metal > missing from those rotors, and I doubt the oil filter caught it all. > Bearing inserts are really cheap compared to repairing the damage if one > fails/spins. And even if the crank surfaces have some damage/wear, new > inserts will be better than ignoring the problem. > > I would also pull the oil pump driveshaft out, and inspect it for damage > (bent tang where it drives the pump). > > Sorry, I know that's not what you want to hear, but that's my opinion and > what I would do if it were my car. > Randall From mmarr at notwires.com Sun Sep 6 15:10:18 2009 From: mmarr at notwires.com (Michael Marr) Date: Sun, 6 Sep 2009 16:10:18 -0500 Subject: [TR] Low Oil Pressure and Engine Noises References: <20090906200831268.PGGQ16127@cdptpa-omta02.mail.rr.com> <3D305CCB43F341CBB7E65BFFB77F5A10@PetePC> Message-ID: ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Ryner" To: "Randall" ; "'John & Pat Donnelly'" ; Sent: Sunday, September 06, 2009 3:26 PM Subject: Re: [TR] Low Oil Pressure and Engine Noises > Randall is right on. It is false economy (from my early repair manuals) > not to open the bearings and at least check them out - I would just > replace the rod bearings them as a matter of course. You may not have any > damage from the debris in the oil pump, but if you've had low oil pressure > you may have damaged the bearings anyway. The main bearings are a little > more problem to change with the engine in the car, but I would change them > if there is any wear. > Not a bad idea about the pump shaft too. > My $.02 input > Pete When I first got my TR3A I had low oil pressure. I dropped the sump and found similar damage to the oil pump (though not as extreme as yours). I checked all the main and rod bearings and found that the #1 crankpin bearing shells had a piece of tramp metal embedded in one of them. Apparently, this piece of metal had passed through the pump, along the oil gallery, through the front main bearing and through the drilling to the first crankpin, whereupon it stuck and scored the crankpin. I dressed the crank pin with a stone, to remove the high spots, and then with crocus cloth, and replaced all the big end bearings. The car ran fine for another 15 years, which is a testament to the bullet-proof nature of this engine, if nothing else. So, check the mains and big ends - those broken pieces could be anywhere! Mike Mike From tr4zest at gmail.com Sun Sep 6 15:53:38 2009 From: tr4zest at gmail.com (Brian Jones) Date: Sun, 6 Sep 2009 17:53:38 -0400 Subject: [TR] 1959 TR3, Craigs List Message-ID: Saw this, no financial interest. Seems a bargain with overdrive..asking 12,900. http://philadelphia.craigslist.org/cto/1358251549.html Brian Jones Valley Forge, PA From pryner at verizon.net Sun Sep 6 16:55:04 2009 From: pryner at verizon.net (Peter Ryner) Date: Sun, 06 Sep 2009 18:55:04 -0400 Subject: [TR] 1959 TR3, Craigs List In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <11D8CB6E7E5549F0A5C2D1D955DCC0FE@PetePC> I'd have to ask a few questions first. A 6 speed transmission? 40K miles? With some of the other upgrades it may be more drivable but less original. Need to take the current economy in mind when looking at the price. Except for the high end exotics, most car prices at the auctions have dropped considerably. I looked at changing my insurance company for my '56 TR3 and my AH 3000. American Classic Insurance had no problem with the value on the AH, but the TR3 I had been insuring at $12,000 was over their high book of $10,000. Personally I wouldn't sell it for 10K but the current market is certainly depressed. Pete ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Jones" To: "email list" Sent: Sunday, September 06, 2009 5:53 PM Subject: [TR] 1959 TR3, Craigs List > Saw this, no financial interest. Seems a bargain with overdrive..asking > 12,900. > > http://philadelphia.craigslist.org/cto/1358251549.html From spitlist at cox.net Sun Sep 6 17:13:58 2009 From: spitlist at cox.net (Joe Curry) Date: Sun, 6 Sep 2009 16:13:58 -0700 Subject: [TR] 1959 TR3, Craigs List In-Reply-To: <11D8CB6E7E5549F0A5C2D1D955DCC0FE@PetePC> References: <11D8CB6E7E5549F0A5C2D1D955DCC0FE@PetePC> Message-ID: It does say 6 speed tranny but also says Overdrive. That might be an interpretation of having a 4 speed with overdrive that is accessible in both 3rd and 4th, thus giving 6 different final gear ratios. Joe -----Original Message----- From: triumphs-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:triumphs-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Peter Ryner Sent: Sunday, September 06, 2009 3:55 PM To: email list Subject: Re: [TR] 1959 TR3, Craigs List I'd have to ask a few questions first. A 6 speed transmission? 40K miles? With some of the other upgrades it may be more drivable but less original. Need to take the current economy in mind when looking at the price. Except for the high end exotics, most car prices at the auctions have dropped considerably. I looked at changing my insurance company for my '56 TR3 and my AH 3000. American Classic Insurance had no problem with the value on the AH, but the TR3 I had been insuring at $12,000 was over their high book of $10,000. Personally I wouldn't sell it for 10K but the current market is certainly depressed. Pete ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Jones" To: "email list" Sent: Sunday, September 06, 2009 5:53 PM Subject: [TR] 1959 TR3, Craigs List > Saw this, no financial interest. Seems a bargain with overdrive..asking > 12,900. > > http://philadelphia.craigslist.org/cto/1358251549.html This list supported in part by the Vintage Triumph Register http://www.vtr.org Triumphs at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs http://www.team.net/archive From eoot at citlink.net Sun Sep 6 17:15:19 2009 From: eoot at citlink.net (Ed Oot) Date: Sun, 6 Sep 2009 19:15:19 -0400 Subject: [TR] 1959 TR3, Craigs List References: <11D8CB6E7E5549F0A5C2D1D955DCC0FE@PetePC> Message-ID: <9C5E2509F7D3475EA8804CA02FD2345E@WANDERER> "American Classic Insurance had no problem with the value on the AH, but the > TR3 I had been insuring at $12,000 was over their high book of $10,000. " Just insured my 59 TR3 A with Hagerty for $20K no questions asked. Maybe the problem is American Classic and not the car value. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Ryner" To: "email list" Sent: Sunday, September 06, 2009 6:55 PM Subject: Re: [TR] 1959 TR3, Craigs List > I'd have to ask a few questions first. A 6 speed transmission? 40K > miles? With some of the other upgrades it may be more drivable but less > original. > > Need to take the current economy in mind when looking at the price. > Except for the high end exotics, most car prices at the auctions have > dropped considerably. > > I looked at changing my insurance company for my '56 TR3 and my AH 3000. > American Classic Insurance had no problem with the value on the AH, but > the TR3 I had been insuring at $12,000 was over their high book of > $10,000. Personally I wouldn't sell it for 10K but the current market is > certainly depressed. > Pete > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Brian Jones" > To: "email list" > Sent: Sunday, September 06, 2009 5:53 PM > Subject: [TR] 1959 TR3, Craigs List > > >> Saw this, no financial interest. Seems a bargain with overdrive..asking >> 12,900. >> >> http://philadelphia.craigslist.org/cto/1358251549.html > _______________________________________________ > > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > This list supported in part by the Vintage Triumph Register > http://www.vtr.org > > > Triumphs at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs > > > http://www.team.net/archive From spook01 at comcast.net Sun Sep 6 17:23:45 2009 From: spook01 at comcast.net (spook01 at comcast.net) Date: Sun, 6 Sep 2009 23:23:45 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [TR] 1959 TR3, Craigs List In-Reply-To: <9C5E2509F7D3475EA8804CA02FD2345E@WANDERER> Message-ID: <143897574.8245591252279425699.JavaMail.root@sz0151a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> hagarty has treated my entire collection well.B just shoot them some photos and tell them how much you want to insure them for. ray ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ed Oot" To: "email list" Sent: Sunday, September 6, 2009 6:15:19 PM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central Subject: Re: [TR] 1959 TR3, Craigs List "American Classic Insurance had no problem with the value on the AH, but the > TR3 I had been insuring at $12,000 was over their high book of $10,000. " B Just insured my 59 TR3 A with Hagerty for $20K B no questions asked. B Maybe the problem is American Classic and not the car value. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Ryner" To: "email list" Sent: Sunday, September 06, 2009 6:55 PM Subject: Re: [TR] 1959 TR3, Craigs List > I'd have to ask a few questions first. B A 6 speed transmission? B 40K > miles? With some of the other upgrades it may be more drivable but less > original. > > Need to take the current economy in mind when looking at the price. > Except for the high end exotics, most car prices at the auctions have > dropped considerably. > > I looked at changing my insurance company for my '56 TR3 and my AH 3000. > American Classic Insurance had no problem with the value on the AH, but > the TR3 I had been insuring at $12,000 was over their high book of > $10,000. Personally I wouldn't sell it for 10K but the current market is > certainly depressed. > Pete > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Brian Jones" > To: "email list" > Sent: Sunday, September 06, 2009 5:53 PM > Subject: [TR] 1959 TR3, Craigs List > > >> Saw this, no financial interest. Seems a bargain with overdrive..asking >> 12,900. >> >> http://philadelphia.craigslist.org/cto/1358251549.html > _______________________________________________ > > Support Team.Net B http://www.team.net/donate.html > > This list supported in part by the Vintage Triumph Register > http://www.vtr.org > > > Triumphs at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs > > > http://www.team.net/archive This list supported in part by the Vintage Triumph Register http://www.vtr.org Triumphs at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs http://www.team.net/archive From spitlist at cox.net Sun Sep 6 17:25:32 2009 From: spitlist at cox.net (Joe Curry) Date: Sun, 6 Sep 2009 16:25:32 -0700 Subject: [TR] 1959 TR3, Craigs List In-Reply-To: <9C5E2509F7D3475EA8804CA02FD2345E@WANDERER> References: <11D8CB6E7E5549F0A5C2D1D955DCC0FE@PetePC> <9C5E2509F7D3475EA8804CA02FD2345E@WANDERER> Message-ID: I agree. I have both my Spitfires insured for an agreed value of $15K through Shelby insurance. Shop around. Joe -----Original Message----- From: triumphs-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:triumphs-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Ed Oot Sent: Sunday, September 06, 2009 4:15 PM To: email list Subject: Re: [TR] 1959 TR3, Craigs List "American Classic Insurance had no problem with the value on the AH, but the > TR3 I had been insuring at $12,000 was over their high book of $10,000. " Just insured my 59 TR3 A with Hagerty for $20K no questions asked. Maybe the problem is American Classic and not the car value. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Ryner" To: "email list" Sent: Sunday, September 06, 2009 6:55 PM Subject: Re: [TR] 1959 TR3, Craigs List > I'd have to ask a few questions first. A 6 speed transmission? 40K > miles? With some of the other upgrades it may be more drivable but less > original. > > Need to take the current economy in mind when looking at the price. > Except for the high end exotics, most car prices at the auctions have > dropped considerably. > > I looked at changing my insurance company for my '56 TR3 and my AH 3000. > American Classic Insurance had no problem with the value on the AH, but > the TR3 I had been insuring at $12,000 was over their high book of > $10,000. Personally I wouldn't sell it for 10K but the current market is > certainly depressed. > Pete > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Brian Jones" > To: "email list" > Sent: Sunday, September 06, 2009 5:53 PM > Subject: [TR] 1959 TR3, Craigs List > > >> Saw this, no financial interest. Seems a bargain with overdrive..asking >> 12,900. >> >> http://philadelphia.craigslist.org/cto/1358251549.html > _______________________________________________ > > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > This list supported in part by the Vintage Triumph Register > http://www.vtr.org > > > Triumphs at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs > > > http://www.team.net/archive This list supported in part by the Vintage Triumph Register http://www.vtr.org Triumphs at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs http://www.team.net/archive From pdonnel1 at san.rr.com Sun Sep 6 17:28:02 2009 From: pdonnel1 at san.rr.com (John & Pat Donnelly) Date: Sun, 6 Sep 2009 16:28:02 -0700 Subject: [TR] Low Oil Pressure and Engine Noises In-Reply-To: References: <20090906200831268.PGGQ16127@cdptpa-omta02.mail.rr.com> <3D305CCB43F341CBB7E65BFFB77F5A10@PetePC> Message-ID: <000001ca2f49$ae7212b0$0b563810$@rr.com> OK, I'm about to go back underneath the car and check the rod bearings, but have some questions about the mains. The engine is still in the car. Is there a trick to taking them out? Can I just remove the main caps and rotate the top one out? I seem to recall there was a notch on one side of the bearing that matched the cap/block so they wouldn't spin. Is re-install the opposite of taking them out? And, if the bearings are oversized isn't there usually some sort of stamping on them (eg .01)? It's been a few years since I rebuilt it and I forgot what went in there. Johnnie -----Original Message----- From: Michael Marr [mailto:mmarr at notwires.com] Sent: Sunday, September 06, 2009 2:10 PM To: Peter Ryner; Randall; 'John & Pat Donnelly'; triumphs at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [TR] Low Oil Pressure and Engine Noises ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Ryner" To: "Randall" ; "'John & Pat Donnelly'" ; Sent: Sunday, September 06, 2009 3:26 PM Subject: Re: [TR] Low Oil Pressure and Engine Noises > Randall is right on. It is false economy (from my early repair manuals) > not to open the bearings and at least check them out - I would just > replace the rod bearings them as a matter of course. You may not have any > damage from the debris in the oil pump, but if you've had low oil pressure > you may have damaged the bearings anyway. The main bearings are a little > more problem to change with the engine in the car, but I would change them > if there is any wear. > Not a bad idea about the pump shaft too. > My $.02 input > Pete When I first got my TR3A I had low oil pressure. I dropped the sump and found similar damage to the oil pump (though not as extreme as yours). I checked all the main and rod bearings and found that the #1 crankpin bearing shells had a piece of tramp metal embedded in one of them. Apparently, this piece of metal had passed through the pump, along the oil gallery, through the front main bearing and through the drilling to the first crankpin, whereupon it stuck and scored the crankpin. I dressed the crank pin with a stone, to remove the high spots, and then with crocus cloth, and replaced all the big end bearings. The car ran fine for another 15 years, which is a testament to the bullet-proof nature of this engine, if nothing else. So, check the mains and big ends - those broken pieces could be anywhere! Mike Mike From sumton at sbcglobal.net Sun Sep 6 17:31:17 2009 From: sumton at sbcglobal.net (oliver) Date: Sun, 6 Sep 2009 18:31:17 -0500 Subject: [TR] 1959 TR3, Craigs List References: <143897574.8245591252279425699.JavaMail.root@sz0151a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <4F64FE4777534680974D4B92BB962BC1@ranteer.local> another vote for hagerty. they were the only company that would let my teenagers drive the cars, with an adult in the car. no other company would consider it. i had a claim for a scratched windshield - the rubber had come off the wiper. no questions asked; they paid up. i think my tr3 is insured for $18k ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Ed Oot" Cc: "email list" Sent: Sunday, September 06, 2009 6:23 PM Subject: Re: [TR] 1959 TR3, Craigs List > hagarty has treated my entire collection well.B just shoot them some > photos > and tell them how much you want to insure them for. > > ray > > > > ----- Original Message ----- From ZoboHerald at aol.com Sun Sep 6 17:43:54 2009 From: ZoboHerald at aol.com (ZoboHerald at aol.com) Date: Sun, 6 Sep 2009 19:43:54 EDT Subject: [TR] 1959 TR3, Craigs List Message-ID: In a message dated 9/6/2009 7:07:32 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, pryner at verizon.net writes: I looked at changing my insurance company for my '56 TR3 and my AH 3000. American Classic Insurance had no problem with the value on the AH, but the TR3 I had been insuring at $12,000 was over their high book of $10,000. Personally I wouldn't sell it for 10K but the current market is certainly depressed. ==AM== Interesting! I ran a '56 TR3 through the NADA web site and came up with $10, 675 / $17.675 / $43,400 for their low / average / high retail value. Sounds like American Classic is confused? --Andy Mace *Mrs Irrelevant: Oh, is it a jet? *Man: Well, no ... It's not so much of a jet, it's more your, er, Triumph Herald engine with wings. -- Cut-price Airlines Sketch, Monty Python's Flying Circus (22) Triumph 10 / Herald / Sports 6 vehicle consultant, The Vintage Triumph Register: _http://www.vtr.org_ (http://www.vtr.org/) Check out the North American Triumph Sports 6 (Vitesse 6) and Triumph Herald Database: _http://triumph-herald.us_ (http://triumph-herald.us/) From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Sun Sep 6 17:58:18 2009 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Sun, 6 Sep 2009 16:58:18 -0700 Subject: [TR] Low Oil Pressure and Engine Noises In-Reply-To: <000001ca2f49$ae7212b0$0b563810$@rr.com> Message-ID: <20090906235819519.JEJS8566@cdptpa-omta04.mail.rr.com> > Can I just remove the main > caps and rotate the top one out? Yup, that's the idea. Do them one at a time, so the crank is still supported. I flattened one of the lower inserts and used it as a drift to start the upper ones out a little bit. Then I was able to pinch the end against the crank and turn the crank to roll it out the rest of the way. > I seem to recall there was a notch on one side of the > bearing that matched the cap/block so they wouldn't spin. Is > re-install the > opposite of taking them out? Right again. > And, if the bearings are oversized isn't there usually some > sort of stamping on them (eg .01)? Yup, generally the undersize in .001" (eg 010 or 020 etc.). However, I would still suggest a final check with Plastigage, if you replace the inserts. Call it cheap insurance. Randall From supertr6 at earthlink.net Sun Sep 6 18:01:55 2009 From: supertr6 at earthlink.net (Joe Burlein) Date: Sun, 06 Sep 2009 20:01:55 -0400 Subject: [TR] 1959 TR3, Craigs List In-Reply-To: <4F64FE4777534680974D4B92BB962BC1@ranteer.local> References: <143897574.8245591252279425699.JavaMail.root@sz0151a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> <4F64FE4777534680974D4B92BB962BC1@ranteer.local> Message-ID: <4AA44D73.8060907@earthlink.net> Put my vote in for Hagerty. I had someone damage the hood of my 308. Cut a check for the amount needed to fix it. No canceled policy or raised rates. Oh, and no quibbling over the price. Joe oliver wrote: > another vote for hagerty. they were the only company that would let > my teenagers drive the cars, with an adult in the car. no other > company would consider it. > > i had a claim for a scratched windshield - the rubber had come off the > wiper. no questions asked; they paid up. > > i think my tr3 is insured for $18k > > ----- Original Message ----- From: > To: "Ed Oot" > Cc: "email list" > Sent: Sunday, September 06, 2009 6:23 PM > Subject: Re: [TR] 1959 TR3, Craigs List > > >> hagarty has treated my entire collection well.B just shoot them some >> photos >> and tell them how much you want to insure them for. >> >> ray >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ---- From supertr6 at earthlink.net Sun Sep 6 18:02:32 2009 From: supertr6 at earthlink.net (Joe Burlein) Date: Sun, 06 Sep 2009 20:02:32 -0400 Subject: [TR] Tonneau cover purchase In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4AA44D98.7040701@earthlink.net> Did they make a cover for the TR7/8? Joe Mike Coe wrote: > I'd appreciate purchasing from anyone a tonneau cover for my TR8. One from a > TR7 would also apply. Thanks very much. Mike. coefront at shaw.ca > _______________________________________________ > > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > This list supported in part by the Vintage Triumph Register > http://www.vtr.org > > > Triumphs at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs > > > http://www.team.net/archive From spitlist at cox.net Sun Sep 6 18:21:44 2009 From: spitlist at cox.net (Joe Curry) Date: Sun, 6 Sep 2009 17:21:44 -0700 Subject: [TR] Tonneau cover purchase In-Reply-To: <4AA44D98.7040701@earthlink.net> References: <4AA44D98.7040701@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <3E9E7022C0894158A68BA372B3F162CB@joepentiumnew> Moss has them listed in two types of material (Sun-fast Cloth and Vinyl) and the cloth in 3 colors (black, tan and blue). But they are a bit pricey ($758.96 for cloth and $370.95 for vinyl. Joe C. -----Original Message----- From: triumphs-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:triumphs-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Joe Burlein Sent: Sunday, September 06, 2009 5:03 PM To: Mike Coe Cc: triumphs at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [TR] Tonneau cover purchase Did they make a cover for the TR7/8? Joe Mike Coe wrote: > I'd appreciate purchasing from anyone a tonneau cover for my TR8. One from a > TR7 would also apply. Thanks very much. Mike. coefront at shaw.ca > _______________________________________________ > > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > This list supported in part by the Vintage Triumph Register > http://www.vtr.org > > > Triumphs at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs > > > http://www.team.net/archive This list supported in part by the Vintage Triumph Register http://www.vtr.org Triumphs at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs http://www.team.net/archive From klassiccar at aol.com Sun Sep 6 18:58:49 2009 From: klassiccar at aol.com (klassiccar at aol.com) Date: Sun, 06 Sep 2009 20:58:49 -0400 Subject: [TR] craigslist Message-ID: <8CBFD6D7EAA9ED7-2418-8460@webmail-d063.sysops.aol.com> I've seen this 3 in my neighborhood for years. Never had a close look. My wife approached Marty several times in the past, to see if he was interested in joining the other local Triumph guys. Said something like, he didn't like the way we smelled or slurped our soup. If anyone is interested in it, I can have a closer look see. Steve Klein Saw this, no financial interest. Seems a bargain with overdrive..asking 12,900. http://philadelphia.craigslist.org/cto/1358251549.html Brian Jones Valley Forge, PA From pdonnel1 at san.rr.com Sun Sep 6 19:03:47 2009 From: pdonnel1 at san.rr.com (John & Pat Donnelly) Date: Sun, 6 Sep 2009 18:03:47 -0700 Subject: [TR] Low Oil Pressure and Engine Noises In-Reply-To: <20090906235819519.JEJS8566@cdptpa-omta04.mail.rr.com> References: <000001ca2f49$ae7212b0$0b563810$@rr.com> <20090906235819519.JEJS8566@cdptpa-omta04.mail.rr.com> Message-ID: <000001ca2f57$0e8221b0$2b866510$@rr.com> OK, I've taken a shower and done for the day. Boy, it's messy working underneath the car! Here's a pic of the #2, center main and #3 bearings. I thought my oil filter was better! http://www.flickr.com/photos/42214313 at N05/3895000572/ Looks like #2 is only working on one side, and both main and #3 have grooves. Not sure how this compares with other cars that have 40K on them. BTW, the journals on the crank look mirror smooth, and all bearings are 020. So, my shopping list is: Oil Pump and filter screen Sump gasket Oil pump gasket Connecting rod bearings Main bearings Plastigage (red?) Do I need new rod and main bolts? Aviation gasket goo. Loctite? Which one? I haven't pulled the front main bearing cap. Doesn't that have the front engine support plate gasket glued to it? Hmmm. What am I getting myself into? Anything else I need? Besides a beer of course! Johnnie -----Original Message----- From: Randall [mailto:tr3driver at ca.rr.com] Sent: Sunday, September 06, 2009 4:58 PM To: 'John & Pat Donnelly'; triumphs at autox.team.net Subject: RE: [TR] Low Oil Pressure and Engine Noises > Can I just remove the main > caps and rotate the top one out? Yup, that's the idea. Do them one at a time, so the crank is still supported. I flattened one of the lower inserts and used it as a drift to start the upper ones out a little bit. Then I was able to pinch the end against the crank and turn the crank to roll it out the rest of the way. > I seem to recall there was a notch on one side of the > bearing that matched the cap/block so they wouldn't spin. Is > re-install the > opposite of taking them out? Right again. > And, if the bearings are oversized isn't there usually some > sort of stamping on them (eg .01)? Yup, generally the undersize in .001" (eg 010 or 020 etc.). However, I would still suggest a final check with Plastigage, if you replace the inserts. Call it cheap insurance. Randall From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Sun Sep 6 19:43:50 2009 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Sun, 6 Sep 2009 18:43:50 -0700 Subject: [TR] Low Oil Pressure and Engine Noises In-Reply-To: <000001ca2f57$0e8221b0$2b866510$@rr.com> Message-ID: <20090907014350755.UZKM16127@cdptpa-omta02.mail.rr.com> > Here's a pic of the #2, center main and #3 bearings. I > thought my oil filter > was better! > http://www.flickr.com/photos/42214313 at N05/3895000572/ Not bad at all, especially with that oil pump. > Oil Pump and filter screen Ken Gillanders wrote a tech tip many years ago of reinforcing the screen by looping some copper or stainless steel wire through the screen and around the pickup tube. It seems to help keep the wire from breaking where it's soldered to the tube; I assume by keeping the screen from vibrating as much. > Do I need new rod and main bolts? IMO, no. > Aviation gasket goo. Only for the felt in the rear main cap. I'd suggest Hylomar everywhere else. > Loctite? Which one? Medium strength/blue. > I haven't pulled the front main bearing cap. Doesn't that > have the front > engine support plate gasket glued to it? Hmmm. What am I > getting myself into? Yes, the gasket will tear as you remove the filler block. Clean it up and put some form-a-gasket in there. > Anything else I need? Don't forget the felt for the rear cap. Obviously, I'd change the filter, too. How were the thrust washers? Randall From jimmuller at rcn.com Sun Sep 6 19:46:06 2009 From: jimmuller at rcn.com (Jim Muller) Date: Sun, 06 Sep 2009 21:46:06 -0400 Subject: [TR] Low Oil Pressure and Engine Noises In-Reply-To: <000001ca2f57$0e8221b0$2b866510$@rr.com> References: <20090906235819519.JEJS8566@cdptpa-omta04.mail.rr.com> Message-ID: <4AA42D9E.11986.1CE8DC8B@localhost> On 6 Sep 2009 at 18:03, John & Pat Donnelly wrote: > Anything else I need? Besides a beer of course! Perhaps a backup beer might be useful. Just looking at that pump. Don't see how else could it have cracked other than by sucking up something solid. -- Jim Muller jimmuller at rcn.com '80 Spitfire, '70 GT6+ From pdonnel1 at san.rr.com Sun Sep 6 20:18:10 2009 From: pdonnel1 at san.rr.com (John & Pat Donnelly) Date: Sun, 6 Sep 2009 19:18:10 -0700 Subject: [TR] Low Oil Pressure and Engine Noises In-Reply-To: <20090907014350755.UZKM16127@cdptpa-omta02.mail.rr.com> References: <000001ca2f57$0e8221b0$2b866510$@rr.com> <20090907014350755.UZKM16127@cdptpa-omta02.mail.rr.com> Message-ID: <000301ca2f61$72793640$576ba2c0$@rr.com> The screen has a big hole (thumb nail size) right underneath the pickup tube inlet. Looks like abrasive damage (vibration?). The hole was right underneath (sump side) of the tube. Did Ken describe how to weave the wire, since I was thinking about ways to keep the tube centered in the screen and avoid the abrasion issue again? The sump looks OK with no dents that may have pushed the screen up. Johnnie >Ken Gillanders wrote a tech tip many years ago of reinforcing the screen by looping some copper or stainless steel wire through the screen and around the pickup tube. It seems to help keep the wire from breaking where it's soldered to the tube; I assume by keeping the screen from vibrating as much. From wbeech at flash.net Sun Sep 6 21:06:12 2009 From: wbeech at flash.net (wbeech at flash.net) Date: Sun, 6 Sep 2009 21:06:12 -0600 Subject: [TR] 1959 TR3, Craigs List In-Reply-To: <9C5E2509F7D3475EA8804CA02FD2345E@WANDERER> References: <11D8CB6E7E5549F0A5C2D1D955DCC0FE@PetePC> <9C5E2509F7D3475EA8804CA02FD2345E@WANDERER> Message-ID: <314A3D10BC5C40E49998146801E1418E@bboffice> I have my '58 TR3 with Hartford, along with the rest of my family cars on the AARP plan. After the restoration this year I bumped it up from $10,000 to $25,000 (full coverage) with no questions asked. Their rate was higher than Haggerty but they will let me park it for the winter months and knock off 1/2 the annual cost of the liability portion, Hagerty said this was already factored into their rates. So at the bottom line it was a wash plus I save another 10% on my homeowner's policy by keeping it all with one company. Bill Beecher '58 TR-3A TS/30766 L (On the road in 2009!) "A Triumph is man's best friend, it always comes when it is called...of course, some times it is difficult to make it go" -----Original Message----- From: triumphs-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:triumphs-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Ed Oot "American Classic Insurance had no problem with the value on the AH, but the > TR3 I had been insuring at $12,000 was over their high book of $10,000. " Just insured my 59 TR3 A with Hagerty for $20K no questions asked. Maybe the problem is American Classic and not the car value. From pdonnel1 at san.rr.com Sun Sep 6 21:23:42 2009 From: pdonnel1 at san.rr.com (John & Pat Donnelly) Date: Sun, 6 Sep 2009 20:23:42 -0700 Subject: [TR] Low Oil Pressure and Engine Noises In-Reply-To: <20090907014350755.UZKM16127@cdptpa-omta02.mail.rr.com> References: <000001ca2f57$0e8221b0$2b866510$@rr.com> <20090907014350755.UZKM16127@cdptpa-omta02.mail.rr.com> Message-ID: <000701ca2f6a$99fc0630$cdf41290$@rr.com> Thanks for the advice and refresher. I have new oil and a filter ready. But now that I think of it the 20-50W I had will be put aside, will run 10-30W to start, and see where the oil pressure goes. Probably a better measurement of success. And thanks for the reminder of the felt. I had forgotten about that. In the picture you can see a glimpse of the bottom thrust washer peeking out on the right side, and it looks fine. I'll measure the forward/back crank movement, but will probably replace them both anyway - cheap insurance as somebody mentioned. Any idea on the #2 conn rod bearing only working on half the surface? Could it be a problem with dirt/grit between the half shells? I did the plastigage trick when I put it together many years ago and it seemed fine then. Thanks! Johnnie I WILL drive the TR to TFest this year! >Don't forget the felt for the rear cap. Obviously, I'd change the filter, too. How were the thrust washers? Randall From plaxo at mx.plaxo.com Sun Sep 6 22:25:05 2009 From: plaxo at mx.plaxo.com (Greg Solow) Date: Sun, 06 Sep 2009 21:25:05 -0700 Subject: [TR] Greg Solow added you as a connection on Plaxo Message-ID: Hi Triumphs, Greg Solow wants to add you as a connection on Plaxo. To accept this connection request, go to: http://www.plaxo.com/invite?i=81161855&k=387065444&l=en&src=email&et=1&est=no levels&etv=jun09a&el=en Thanks! The Plaxo team More than 20 million people use Plaxo to keep in touch with the people they care about. Don't want to receive emails from Plaxo any more? Go to: http://www.plaxo.com/stop?src=email&et=1&est=nolevels&etv=jun09a&el=en&email= triumphs%40autox.team.net From wbeech at flash.net Sun Sep 6 22:50:42 2009 From: wbeech at flash.net (wbeech at flash.net) Date: Sun, 6 Sep 2009 22:50:42 -0600 Subject: [TR] Greg Solow added you as a connection on Plaxo In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8DAFBF9B6DDF403784227DD6D8B8E0F3@bboffice> What???? -----Original Message----- From: triumphs-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:triumphs-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Greg Solow Sent: Sunday, September 06, 2009 10:25 PM To: triumphs at autox.team.net Subject: [TR] Greg Solow added you as a connection on Plaxo Hi Triumphs, Greg Solow wants to add you as a connection on Plaxo. To accept this connection request, go to: http://www.plaxo.com/invite?i=81161855&k=387065444&l=en&src=email&et=1&est=n o levels&etv=jun09a&el=en Thanks! The Plaxo team More than 20 million people use Plaxo to keep in touch with the people they care about. Don't want to receive emails from Plaxo any more? Go to: http://www.plaxo.com/stop?src=email&et=1&est=nolevels&etv=jun09a&el=en&email = triumphs%40autox.team.net This list supported in part by the Vintage Triumph Register http://www.vtr.org Triumphs at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs http://www.team.net/archive From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Sun Sep 6 22:53:19 2009 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Sun, 6 Sep 2009 21:53:19 -0700 Subject: [TR] Low Oil Pressure and Engine Noises In-Reply-To: <000301ca2f61$72793640$576ba2c0$@rr.com> Message-ID: <20090907045320038.WXKB29089@cdptpa-omta03.mail.rr.com> > The screen has a big hole (thumb nail size) right underneath > the pickup tube > inlet. Looks like abrasive damage (vibration?). The hole was right > underneath (sump side) of the tube. Yup, that's right where they fail. The screen was originally soldered to the tube at that point. Engine vibration causes the wires of the screen to flex right at the surface of the solder blob, and eventually break at that point. > Did Ken describe how to weave the wire, since I was thinking > about ways to > keep the tube centered in the screen and avoid the abrasion > issue again? Hah! Found it! TRSC Tech Talk Volume 2, page 29; tip originally published in The Triumph Tribune, November 1990. To paraphrase: Start with a piece of .025" "half-hard" copper wire, about 2' long. Bend a 4" section at one end into a semicircle and then about 1/2" closer to the pump than the solder blob, work it through the oil screen, over the top of the pipe and back out through the screen near the bottom. Then do it again through the next hole in the screen. Twist the ends together and cut off the excess. Then repeat the process on the other side of the blob. As Ken said, "This whole procedure is not particularly easy to do and it does require a degree of manual dexterity, but it is a good fix!" Ken specified copper and that's what I used, but I'm confident that .020" or .025" stainless safety wire would also work well. Randall From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Sun Sep 6 23:06:40 2009 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Sun, 6 Sep 2009 22:06:40 -0700 Subject: [TR] Greg Solow added you as a connection on Plaxo In-Reply-To: <8DAFBF9B6DDF403784227DD6D8B8E0F3@bboffice> Message-ID: <20090907050638294.XLVX16127@cdptpa-omta02.mail.rr.com> > What???? It's the latest thing in "social networking". When you sign up for one of these sites, it runs a script that harvests all the addresses in your email contacts folder and "invites" them to join as well. What we used to call an "Internet worm" is now part of somebody's business model. Such is progress. Ignore it and maybe it will go away. Randall From fishplate at charter.net Mon Sep 7 09:01:24 2009 From: fishplate at charter.net (Jeff Scarbrough) Date: Mon, 07 Sep 2009 11:01:24 -0400 Subject: [TR] Low Oil Pressure and Engine Noises In-Reply-To: <20090906235819519.JEJS8566@cdptpa-omta04.mail.rr.com> References: <000001ca2f49$ae7212b0$0b563810$@rr.com> <20090906235819519.JEJS8566@cdptpa-omta04.mail.rr.com> Message-ID: At 07:58 PM 9/6/2009, Randall wrote: > > Can I just remove the main > > caps and rotate the top one out? > >Yup, that's the idea. Do them one at a time, so the crank is still >supported. I flattened one of the lower inserts and used it as a drift to >start the upper ones out a little bit. Then I was able to pinch the end >against the crank and turn the crank to roll it out the rest of the way. Another method is to form a tool with a cotter pin. Use a largeish pin and flatten the head in a vise. Make sure the head is wider than the hole, and thinner than the bearing shell. You can place the pin in the oil galley hole and rotate the crank until the flat head is against the bearing shell. Turn the crank (the right way!) and roll the old shell out. Use the same tool to roll the new shell in. Jeff Scarbrough 75 TR6 x 1, 76 1500 x 2, 78 1500 x 1, 80 1500 x 0.5 http://www.fishplate.org/vehicles/ Corrosion Acres, Georgia #354 From Chip19474 at aol.com Mon Sep 7 10:53:52 2009 From: Chip19474 at aol.com (Chip19474 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 7 Sep 2009 12:53:52 EDT Subject: [TR] craigslist Message-ID: Interesting.....I'm just catching up with emails and went to Craigs List to checkout this TR3....it's roughly 1pm on Labor day - the Craig's List posting was deleted by the author.....maybe it was that 6 speed tranny:) Chip Krout Delaware Valley Triumphs, Ltd. Skippack, PA 1976 TR6 CF57822U In a message dated 9/6/2009 9:03:26 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, klassiccar at aol.com writes: I've seen this 3 in my neighborhood for years. Never had a close look. My wife approached Marty several times in the past, to see if he was interested in joining the other local Triumph guys. Said something like, he didn't like the way we smelled or slurped our soup. If anyone is interested in it, I can have a closer look see. Steve Klein Saw this, no financial interest. Seems a bargain with overdrive..asking 12,900. http://philadelphia.craigslist.org/cto/1358251549.html Brian Jones Valley Forge, PA This list supported in part by the Vintage Triumph Register http://www.vtr.org Triumphs at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs http://www.team.net/archive **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222846709x1201493018/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=115&bcd =JulystepsfooterNO115) From ahwahnee18 at gmail.com Mon Sep 7 17:23:11 2009 From: ahwahnee18 at gmail.com (Geo Hahn) Date: Mon, 7 Sep 2009 16:23:11 -0700 Subject: [TR] Tonneau cover purchase In-Reply-To: <3E9E7022C0894158A68BA372B3F162CB@joepentiumnew> References: <4AA44D98.7040701@earthlink.net> <3E9E7022C0894158A68BA372B3F162CB@joepentiumnew> Message-ID: <7bb181af0909071623h426a6d4dh14302d2127a46a7f@mail.gmail.com> On 9/6/09, Joe Curry wrote: > > But they are a bit pricey ($758.96 for cloth and $370.95 for vinyl. Wah, them's Jag-wire prices! From banjonut at verizon.net Mon Sep 7 18:34:44 2009 From: banjonut at verizon.net (Steve Ball) Date: Mon, 07 Sep 2009 17:34:44 -0700 Subject: [TR] Dzus fastener holes in bonnet Message-ID: <28B271875BEE462C82D4BBD1D0E4086F@HAMPC> Can anyone help me with this one? The guy who is doing bodywork on my '60 TR3A is now working on the bonnet. He asked me what the holes for the Dzus fasters were supposed to look like, and I have no clue. Mine look funny and are probably worn, so they might have to be repaired. He needs to know what they're supposed to be like. If anyone has a picture of these holes with no Dzus fasteners installed, it would be helpful, otherwise a description would be good. Are they supposed to be round holes, or oblong (sort of rectangular like mine are)? Is there supposed to be a small "ridge" around the hole (like mine) or is the metal just supposed to come right straight up to the hole....mine has a ridge around the hole, but that could be caused from wear, or improper installation of the Dzus fasteners by a prior owner, bending the metal around the hole. As usual, any info is appreciated, and many thanks in advance! Steve Ball Lompoc Ca '60 TR3A TS68164L email: banjonut at verizon.net From L1J1S at aol.com Mon Sep 7 18:50:13 2009 From: L1J1S at aol.com (L1J1S at aol.com) Date: Mon, 7 Sep 2009 20:50:13 EDT Subject: [TR] tr.non tr Message-ID: hello, today at the b.b.q. i had four hotdogs. after i felt like i was going to explode. i just cannot not figure how at this years Coney Island 's htdog eating contest Joey Chestnut was able to wallop down 66 hotdogs in ten minutes. larry schwartz From cfmtr3a at verizon.net Mon Sep 7 18:52:18 2009 From: cfmtr3a at verizon.net (Carl TR) Date: Mon, 07 Sep 2009 20:52:18 -0400 Subject: [TR] Dzus fastener holes in bonnet In-Reply-To: <28B271875BEE462C82D4BBD1D0E4086F@HAMPC> References: <28B271875BEE462C82D4BBD1D0E4086F@HAMPC> Message-ID: <32C741AE6FFC46D78DD2C642A7BF642D@CarlPC> Will take a picture in the morning. Carl ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Ball" To: Sent: Monday, September 07, 2009 8:34 PM Subject: [TR] Dzus fastener holes in bonnet > Can anyone help me with this one? The guy who is doing bodywork on my '60 > TR3A is now working on the bonnet. He asked me what the holes for the > Dzus fasters were supposed to look like, and I have no clue. Mine look > funny and are probably worn, so they might have to be repaired. He needs > to know what they're supposed to be like. > > If anyone has a picture of these holes with no Dzus fasteners installed, > it would be helpful, otherwise a description would be good. Are they > supposed to be round holes, or oblong (sort of rectangular like mine are)? > Is there supposed to be a small "ridge" around the hole (like mine) or is > the metal just supposed to come right straight up to the hole....mine has > a ridge around the hole, but that could be caused from wear, or improper > installation of the Dzus fasteners by a prior owner, bending the metal > around the hole. > > As usual, any info is appreciated, and many thanks in advance! > > Steve Ball > Lompoc Ca > '60 TR3A TS68164L > > email: banjonut at verizon.net > _______________________________________________ > > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > This list supported in part by the Vintage Triumph Register > http://www.vtr.org > > > Triumphs at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs > > > http://www.team.net/archive From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Mon Sep 7 19:45:00 2009 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Mon, 7 Sep 2009 18:45:00 -0700 Subject: [TR] Dzus fastener holes in bonnet In-Reply-To: <28B271875BEE462C82D4BBD1D0E4086F@HAMPC> Message-ID: <20090908014500547.SQCO16127@cdptpa-omta02.mail.rr.com> > Are they supposed to be round holes Yes. > Is there > supposed to be a small "ridge" around the hole (like mine) There is an aluminum grommet that goes in the hole, sounds like you may be looking at the exposed portion of that grommet. Hopefully, the oblong hole is also the result of wear in that aluminum, so replacing the grommet is all that is required. It will make up for a small amount of damage to the steel. Randall From don at napanet.net Mon Sep 7 21:23:42 2009 From: don at napanet.net (don) Date: Mon, 07 Sep 2009 20:23:42 -0700 Subject: [TR] 1965 Fury In-Reply-To: <20090908014500547.SQCO16127@cdptpa-omta02.mail.rr.com> References: <28B271875BEE462C82D4BBD1D0E4086F@HAMPC> <20090908014500547.SQCO16127@cdptpa-omta02.mail.rr.com> Message-ID: <6.0.3.0.1.20090907200704.043751b0@pop.napanet.net> This Fury convertible does not have a 318 V8 and Torqueflite. Pretty car . . . for pretty big money. BaT has it featured. >http://bringatrailer.com/2009/09/07/michelotti-prototype-1965-triumph-fury/ ____________________________________________________________________________________ Don Scott Calistoga CA 2001 Miata SE BRG 1973 MGB GT (for sale) 1962 TR4 (seeking) 1962 MGA Mk II From mlang99 at comcast.net Mon Sep 7 22:46:36 2009 From: mlang99 at comcast.net (Michael Lang) Date: Mon, 07 Sep 2009 21:46:36 -0700 Subject: [TR] Re-use of old brake linings In-Reply-To: <501688F343204B0F9322FEB6C46E59A7@bboffice> References: <4A9F37F7.1090104@comcast.net> <501688F343204B0F9322FEB6C46E59A7@bboffice> Message-ID: <4AA5E1AC.9020009@comcast.net> I got my shoes back on Friday. They were relined by a local shop the specializes in clutch and brake linings for classic cars. They are now riveted and look like brand new. It's sort of a shame to hide them away in the brake drums and let them collect brake dust! By the way, I went to the swap meet at the All British Field Meet on Sunday. I managed to score an unmodified TR3 glove box door for $4. I've already got two others, but they both have radio holes cut in them. There were only 4 TR3's that I spotted on Sunday. Two were race cars that were preparing for the Kas Kasner Cup later in the afternoon. It was a rainy day, but still a lot of fun. Mike wbeech at flash.net wrote: > My linings are riveted to the metal shoe, hopefully your local shop will do > the same. From triumph.driver at gmail.com Tue Sep 8 08:12:35 2009 From: triumph.driver at gmail.com (Chuck White) Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 10:12:35 -0400 Subject: [TR] Need a TR4A frame In-Reply-To: <462F6239A3FA469691759AD826727F2B@Study> References: <462F6239A3FA469691759AD826727F2B@Study> Message-ID: <6CF6A34E17914B868771F854D79567D9@chuck> A friend of mine had the unfortunate situation of a person turning in front of him and destroying the front right corner of his 1967 TR4A. While no one was hurt, major damage occurred to include the suspension and frame. Does anyone on the list have (or know of) a good, used TR4A frame available? Note that the TR4 and TR4A frames are different and that the TR4 frame will not do. Team Triumph in northern Ohio is a possibility. RATCO would be an excellent choice but my friend would like to keep the cost significantly lower, if possible. Reply to Triumph.Driver at GMail.Com. Thanks. Chuck White (Dayton, OH area) From tswhitez123 at hotmail.com Tue Sep 8 10:23:04 2009 From: tswhitez123 at hotmail.com (tom white) Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 16:23:04 +0000 Subject: [TR] Dzus fastener holes in bonnet In-Reply-To: <28B271875BEE462C82D4BBD1D0E4086F@HAMPC> References: <28B271875BEE462C82D4BBD1D0E4086F@HAMPC> Message-ID: When I replaced the dzuz fasteners on my bonnet the holes were round and rather close in tolerance to the fastener shafts. Best regards, Tom _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live: Make it easier for your friends to see what youre up to on Facebook. http://windowslive.com/Campaign/SocialNetworking?ocid=PID23285::T:WLMTAGL:ON: WL:en-US:SI_SB_facebook:082009 From emanteno at gmail.com Tue Sep 8 10:28:50 2009 From: emanteno at gmail.com (Irv Korey) Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 11:28:50 -0500 Subject: [TR] Need a TR4A frame In-Reply-To: <6CF6A34E17914B868771F854D79567D9@chuck> References: <462F6239A3FA469691759AD826727F2B@Study> <6CF6A34E17914B868771F854D79567D9@chuck> Message-ID: <354a1780909080928j9f2c951vcb959e5c6819d73b@mail.gmail.com> Chuck, I don't have one, but since the frames are different for irs and solid axle, you'll need to let everyone know which one your friend needs. Irv Korey 74 TR6 CF22767U Highland Park, IL On Tue, Sep 8, 2009 at 9:12 AM, Chuck White wrote: > A friend of mine had the unfortunate situation of a person turning in front > of him and destroying the front right corner of his 1967 TR4A. While no > one > was hurt, major damage occurred to include the suspension and frame. Does > anyone on the list have (or know of) a good, used TR4A frame available? > Note that the TR4 and TR4A frames are different and that the TR4 frame will > not do. Team Triumph in northern Ohio is a possibility. RATCO would be an > excellent choice but my friend would like to keep the cost significantly > lower, if possible. Reply to Triumph.Driver at GMail.Com. Thanks. > > Chuck White > (Dayton, OH area) > _______________________________________________ > > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > This list supported in part by the Vintage Triumph Register > http://www.vtr.org > > > Triumphs at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs > > > http://www.team.net/archive From triumph.driver at gmail.com Tue Sep 8 10:55:23 2009 From: triumph.driver at gmail.com (Chuck White) Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 12:55:23 -0400 Subject: [TR] Need a TR4A frame In-Reply-To: <354a1780909080928j9f2c951vcb959e5c6819d73b@mail.gmail.com> References: <462F6239A3FA469691759AD826727F2B@Study> <6CF6A34E17914B868771F854D79567D9@chuck> <354a1780909080928j9f2c951vcb959e5c6819d73b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1A104FCF759F4DD3A371CFB66C1CA5BB@chuck> Irv, Thanks. Paul's car is the solid axle TR4A. However, I've been told the frames for both the solid axle and IRS TR4A are the same. The difference is between the TR4 and TR4A frames. Chuck _____ From: Irv Korey [mailto:emanteno at gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2009 12:29 PM To: Chuck White Cc: triumphs at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [TR] Need a TR4A frame Chuck, I don't have one, but since the frames are different for irs and solid axle, you'll need to let everyone know which one your friend needs. Irv Korey 74 TR6 CF22767U Highland Park, IL On Tue, Sep 8, 2009 at 9:12 AM, Chuck White wrote: A friend of mine had the unfortunate situation of a person turning in front of him and destroying the front right corner of his 1967 TR4A. While no one was hurt, major damage occurred to include the suspension and frame. Does anyone on the list have (or know of) a good, used TR4A frame available? Note that the TR4 and TR4A frames are different and that the TR4 frame will not do. Team Triumph in northern Ohio is a possibility. RATCO would be an excellent choice but my friend would like to keep the cost significantly lower, if possible. Reply to Triumph.Driver at GMail.Com. Thanks. Chuck White (Dayton, OH area) From Chip19474 at aol.com Tue Sep 8 11:01:59 2009 From: Chip19474 at aol.com (Chip19474 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 13:01:59 EDT Subject: [TR] Need a TR4A frame Message-ID: Chuck, Try Matt Bakes from Triumph Rescue in Bally, PA on 610-845-8217....he may have a TR4A frame in his storage barn. Chip Krout Delaware Valley Triumphs, Ltd. Skippack, PA 1976 TR6 CF57822U In a message dated 9/8/2009 10:13:08 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, triumph.driver at gmail.com writes: Does anyone on the list have (or know of) a good, used TR4A frame available? From triumph.driver at gmail.com Tue Sep 8 11:06:11 2009 From: triumph.driver at gmail.com (Chuck White) Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 13:06:11 -0400 Subject: [TR] Need a TR4A frame In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks, Chip. Good suggestion. Chuck _____ From: Chip19474 at aol.com [mailto:Chip19474 at aol.com] Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2009 1:02 PM To: triumph.driver at gmail.com; triumphs at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [TR] Need a TR4A frame Chuck, Try Matt Bakes from Triumph Rescue in Bally, PA on 610-845-8217....he may have a TR4A frame in his storage barn. Chip Krout Delaware Valley Triumphs, Ltd. Skippack, PA 1976 TR6 CF57822U In a message dated 9/8/2009 10:13:08 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, triumph.driver at gmail.com writes: Does anyone on the list have (or know of) a good, used TR4A frame available? From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Tue Sep 8 11:46:18 2009 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 10:46:18 -0700 Subject: [TR] Low Oil Pressure and Engine Noises In-Reply-To: <000701ca2f6a$99fc0630$cdf41290$@rr.com> References: <000001ca2f57$0e8221b0$2b866510$@rr.com> <20090907014350755.UZKM16127@cdptpa-omta02.mail.rr.com> <000701ca2f6a$99fc0630$cdf41290$@rr.com> Message-ID: <275FFC72F51F40E891D6C470B75FBAFE@jdnet.deere.com> > Any idea on the #2 conn rod bearing only working on half the surface? > Could > it be a problem with dirt/grit between the half shells? Could be, but my guess is that the rod is bent slightly or perhaps the crank journal is tapered instead. My experience is that the shells are not that rigid and will deform under the applied forces around any dirt or grit; leaving a circular high spot visible on the face of the insert. Doesn't look serious enough to worry about now; but when you get ready for a full rebuild, have the rods checked (per the book). > I thought my oil filter was better! This topic has been discussed several times. The problem is not the filter itself, but the bypass valve built into the filter head. The intention here is that if the filter becomes clogged, the bypass will open and allow unfiltered oil into the galleries. Several people believe that most bypass valves open way too early, and allow unfiltered oil to bypass even when the filter is not clogged. http://tinyurl.com/ltu3jy Of course this does not apply to the TR2 and earlier TR3 engines with the 'bypass' filter system, where unfiltered oil was always supplied to the galleries and the filtered oil was returned to the crankcase! -- Randall From spook01 at comcast.net Tue Sep 8 19:10:20 2009 From: spook01 at comcast.net (spook01 at comcast.net) Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2009 01:10:20 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [TR] brake drums Message-ID: <785503851.9050951252458620737.JavaMail.root@sz0151a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> hi all, a couple of guys had good brake drums for my 62 tr4..B would you guys write to me off line? thanks, ray From sumton at sbcglobal.net Tue Sep 8 21:07:40 2009 From: sumton at sbcglobal.net (oliver) Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 22:07:40 -0500 Subject: [TR] anything happening the weekend of nov 13-14 Message-ID: <18E2F40B8ACE43B980CD9A27D61F59EC@ranteer.local> looks like i'll be in the philadelphia area. anything going on? From rengrave at verizon.net Tue Sep 8 21:27:58 2009 From: rengrave at verizon.net (Wayne) Date: Tue, 08 Sep 2009 23:27:58 -0400 Subject: [TR] Static Timing Message-ID: I'm ready "I think" to start my engine after my first engine rebuild. I'm a little confused about how to set the static timing for my 73 TR6. I followed the manuals and with 12 degrees btdc on the crank pulley, I have the distributor positioned so the test light goes on per the Bently manual. However, in this position, the rotor is pointing between the #1 and #5 terminals on the distributor cap. Does this sound correct? The manual states that the rotor should be pointing at #1. Should I remove the distributor and try to re-position the drive gear to the next tooth to see if the rotor ends up pointing directly at the # 1 terminal in the cap at the moment the light goes on @ 12 degrees btdc? I just want to get it right so when I turn the key, the car will start. Should I expect to turn the distributor once it starts to "tweek" the timing? Does anyone have a check list for intial start-up? I know I should look at the oil pressure and when it warms up, watch the temperature. I plan to start it and let it run for 20 minutes @ 2000 - 2500 rpm to properly break-in the engine. I plan to use straight 30 wt "non-detergent" oil with Lucas oil additive to add zinc. After 20 minutes, I may dump the oil to examine it for any large bits of metal, if ok, re-fill with fresh 30 wt oil again with Lucas oil additive and run it for 500-800 miles. Is this being overly cautious? After 500-800 miles, I will run Castrol GTX 20-50 with a K & N oil filter. Oops, I went a little off my original concern, I mainly want to get the static timing correct for the initial start-up. Wayne 73 TR6 From mark at bradakis.com Tue Sep 8 22:14:12 2009 From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J Bradakis) Date: Tue, 08 Sep 2009 22:14:12 -0600 Subject: [TR] Static Timing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4AA72B94.8040701@bradakis.com> > However, in this position, the rotor is pointing between the #1 and #5 > terminals on the distributor cap. Does this sound correct? > The manual states that the rotor should be pointing at #1. > Here's a thought - rotate the distributor to point where you think it should. You'll most likely be moving it a bit one way or another once you have the motor running to get the timing right. You may even need to keep it loose enough to turn back and forth to get it to fire up initially. mjb. From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Tue Sep 8 23:39:54 2009 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 22:39:54 -0700 Subject: [TR] Static Timing In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20090909053954376.KDIY29089@cdptpa-omta03.mail.rr.com> > I have the > distributor positioned so the test light goes on per the > Bently manual. That's odd. Mine says to turn the distributor until the light just goes out. Step 5, section 86.35.15, page 520. It does depend on how the light is connected, but the diagram in the Bentley shows it connected so it will go out just at the point where the spark occurs. When you find the right point, it's OK if the rotor is just slightly to the #5 side of the #1 post, but it should definitely be closer to #1. If not, you probably should reposition the cam gear. > Should I expect to turn the distributor once it starts to > "tweek" the timing? Static timing should get you plenty close enough to run in the cam. But it would be best to recheck with a timing light, later on. Note that the directions in the Bentley for dynamic timing are WRONG. To obtain the given "at idle" timing of 4 ATDC, the vacuum retard should be connected and operating. If you disconnect the retard per the book (or it doesn't work), then the timing should be set to the "static" figure (at the given idle rpm). There is supposed to be an emissions tag under the hood with the correct instructions and a note to the effect that they replace all other instructions (but the tag is usually missing). > Does anyone have a check list for intial start-up? I like to spin them on the starter, with the plugs still out & the hot wire off the coil, until the oil pressure comes up. Also gives you a chance to check for gross oil leaks (like the oil filter you forgot to install). Then put the plugs in, connect the ignition, double-check the oil and water levels; and fire it up. While you are running in the cam, check again for any leaks and of course keep an eye on the temp gauge. Since I don't have a lot of faith in factory gauges (especially electric ones), I also feel the hoses and radiator to determine when the thermostat opens, and compare that with the gauge. Randall From mdporter at dfn.com Wed Sep 9 02:54:46 2009 From: mdporter at dfn.com (Michael Porter) Date: Wed, 09 Sep 2009 02:54:46 -0600 Subject: [TR] Static Timing In-Reply-To: <20090909053954376.KDIY29089@cdptpa-omta03.mail.rr.com> References: <20090909053954376.KDIY29089@cdptpa-omta03.mail.rr.com> Message-ID: <4AA76D56.5040102@dfn.com> Randall wrote: >> I have the >> distributor positioned so the test light goes on per the >> Bently manual. >> > > That's odd. Mine says to turn the distributor until the light just goes > out. Step 5, section 86.35.15, page 520. It does depend on how the light > is connected, but the diagram in the Bentley shows it connected so it will > go out just at the point where the spark occurs. > > When you find the right point, it's OK if the rotor is just slightly to the > #5 side of the #1 post, but it should definitely be closer to #1. If not, > you probably should reposition the cam gear. Just to amplify on something Randall says above, it's easy to get the static timing wrong if you're not paying attention to the rotational direction of the rotor shaft, by setting the timing on the trailing edge of the cam lobe. If you were doing that, and you'd hooked up the light in series as the instructions read, then the light would go on because the points are just closing and current would then be flowing to ground. That might account, too, for the variance you're seeing in the rotor position--it's already well on the way toward #5, the next terminal in the firing order. Cheers. -- Michael Porter Roswell, NM Never let anyone drive you crazy when you know it's within walking distance.... From fishplate at charter.net Wed Sep 9 05:37:30 2009 From: fishplate at charter.net (fishplate at charter.net) Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2009 4:37:30 -0700 Subject: [TR] Static Timing In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20090909073730.SRMH0.203411.root@mp06> ---- Wayne wrote: > Should I remove the distributor and try to re-position the drive gear to the > next tooth to see if the rotor ends up pointing directly at the # 1 > terminal in the cap at the moment the light goes on @ 12 degrees btdc? Perhaps I'm missing something, but the relative position of the rotor and point cam lobe cannot be changed by moving the drive gear. Thus, you cannot get the light to illuminate with the rotor in a different place by moving the gear. I suspect, as another poster said, that the distributor is being checked in the wrong direction. Or else the point gap is incorrect. Or I don't understand the problem. Jeff Scarbrough Schmieraffe, Ga. From pdonnel1 at san.rr.com Wed Sep 9 07:13:36 2009 From: pdonnel1 at san.rr.com (John & Pat Donnelly) Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2009 06:13:36 -0700 Subject: [TR] Tri vs Bi-metal Bearings Message-ID: <000001ca314f$576366b0$062a3410$@rr.com> I'm about to order bearings for my 4A and find out I have choices to make. King Engine Bearings (and maybe others) puts out a tri-metal bearing that they claim is "better" because it's harder and lasts longer. Anybody have any experience with these? Johnnie From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Wed Sep 9 07:54:38 2009 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2009 06:54:38 -0700 Subject: [TR] Static Timing In-Reply-To: <20090909073730.SRMH0.203411.root@mp06> Message-ID: <20090909135437947.RCPG29089@cdptpa-omta03.mail.rr.com> > Perhaps I'm missing something, but the relative position of > the rotor and point cam lobe cannot be changed by moving the > drive gear. Thus, you cannot get the light to illuminate > with the rotor in a different place by moving the gear. Oops, yer exactly right. Had it confused with my Crane installation, where the pickup position does affect where the rotor points. Please ignore that portion of my previous post. With points, only a mechanical flaw in the distributor (like the advance mechanism bent, disconnected or broken) would change the phasing. Randall From Dave1massey at cs.com Wed Sep 9 09:08:21 2009 From: Dave1massey at cs.com (Dave1massey at cs.com) Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2009 11:08:21 EDT Subject: [TR] Static Timing Message-ID: In a message dated 9/9/2009 8:56:09 AM Central Daylight Time, tr3driver at ca.rr.com writes: > Please ignore that portion of my previous post. With points, only a > mechanical flaw in the distributor (like the advance mechanism bent, > disconnected or broken) would change the phasing. > Or the rotor index boss is damaged and the rotor can be installed improperly. (Ask me how I know) Dave Massey From jimmuller at rcn.com Wed Sep 9 10:10:22 2009 From: jimmuller at rcn.com (jimmuller at rcn.com) Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2009 12:10:22 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [TR] Static Timing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20090909121022.CQE87572@ms10.lnh.mail.rcn.net> In a message dated 9/9/2009 8:56:09 AM Central Daylight Time, tr3driver at ca.rr.com writes: > With points, only a mechanical flaw in the distributor >(like the advance mechanism bent, disconnected or broken) > would change the phasing. Dave Massey replied: > Or the rotor index boss is damaged and the rotor can be > installed improperly. (Ask me how I know) Or as was pointed out before, the detection of the open/closed transition was being done at the timing when the points were closing again instead of opening. This could be caused by the user either turning the engine the wrong way or by looking for a test lightbulb to do the wrong thing. If the bulb was wired across the points or between the ignition + and ground (which is the same as across the points), the bulb will turn on when the points open. If the bulb was wired between + from the battery (or any other "on" voltage source) and the ignition +, the bulb will go out when the points open. Jim Muller From fogbro1 at comcast.net Wed Sep 9 12:17:07 2009 From: fogbro1 at comcast.net (Ed Woods) Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2009 14:17:07 -0400 Subject: [TR] TR6 Pedal Shaft Bushings References: <13314161.1249909498257.JavaMail.root@mswamui-thinleaf.atl.sa.earthlink.net><9332D64E08BB46089943E3A51FEFC4FD@BOBSNEWPC><556D8C1E93BC427D84F41CAFB5DC14C7@DCH6RFC1><4DA7618CBACF458B86BE96DAB7C9CECF@DCH6RFC1><88896D9795A348D083BB813D11DB7E5F@chuck> Message-ID: List, Following my failed attempt to install the currently "correct" pedal shaft bushings on a TR250, I ordered the Delrin bushing kit from Art Lipp as suggested by a couple of Listers. Installed it yesterday and am very pleased with the ease of installation and the end result. I did go to Bob Danielson's great web page to see just how the kit was to be installed. Thanks Bob. Thanks Art. Thanks List. Just wanted to pass the word. Ed Woods From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Wed Sep 9 12:49:52 2009 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2009 11:49:52 -0700 Subject: [TR] Tri vs Bi-metal Bearings In-Reply-To: <000001ca314f$576366b0$062a3410$@rr.com> References: <000001ca314f$576366b0$062a3410$@rr.com> Message-ID: <4A8F02E145DE475F94BB5D20BE306F4E@jdnet.deere.com> Tri-metal bearings were the 'gold standard' for many years, and as original. Given the choice, I'd go with them. -- Randall From levilevi at comcast.net Wed Sep 9 12:56:50 2009 From: levilevi at comcast.net (Bud Rolofson) Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2009 12:56:50 -0600 Subject: [TR] Test - Please delete In-Reply-To: <275FFC72F51F40E891D6C470B75FBAFE@jdnet.deere.com> References: <000001ca2f57$0e8221b0$2b866510$@rr.com> <20090907014350755.UZKM16127@cdptpa-omta02.mail.rr.com> <000701ca2f6a$99fc0630$cdf41290$@rr.com> <275FFC72F51F40E891D6C470B75FBAFE@jdnet.deere.com> Message-ID: <08DDED56-EE8A-40B4-B0EC-D8E6D06A9D3A@comcast.net> Bud Rolofson 71TR6 CC57365 (Good 6) 66TR4A CTC57806 (The Wreck-Almost parts) 66TR4A CTC57529 (The Project) 71F-250 Camper Special (Triumph Support Vehicle) Z-50A Hardly Davidson 1977 Honda Mini-Trail Bike (Triumph Pit Bike) levilevi at comcast.net From wsb1960tr3a at att.net Wed Sep 9 14:42:17 2009 From: wsb1960tr3a at att.net (William Brewer) Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2009 13:42:17 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [TR] Woodley Park Car Show? Message-ID: <254863.53417.qm@web83302.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> In years past we had a big fall show at Woodley park in Van Nuys and another show at Stanford Park in Palo Alto here in California. I've heard that they have been canceled and will be no more. San Diego still has a British Car day. Has something else replaced the Woodley Park car show? Rick Fiebush, where are you?!?! Bill in Tehachapi From 75TR6 at tr6.danielsonfamily.org Wed Sep 9 15:45:24 2009 From: 75TR6 at tr6.danielsonfamily.org (Bob Danielson) Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2009 17:45:24 -0400 Subject: [TR] TR6 Pedal Shaft Bushings In-Reply-To: References: <13314161.1249909498257.JavaMail.root@mswamui-thinleaf.atl.sa.earthlink.net><9332D64E08BB46089943E3A51FEFC4FD@BOBSNEWPC><556D8C1E93BC427D84F41CAFB5DC14C7@DCH6RFC1><4DA7618CBACF458B86BE96DAB7C9CECF@DCH6RFC1><88896D9795A348D083BB813D11DB7E5F@chuck> Message-ID: <8F154F4CFEFA48DA873903966AFBDC0A@BOBSNEWPC> You're welcome Ed......they sure are a simple fix to a normally PITA repair. Bob Danielson 1975 TR6 CF38503U Running w/ Throttle Body Injection Toyota 5 Speed & Nissan LSD http://tr6.danielsonfamily.org -----Original Message----- From: triumphs-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:triumphs-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Ed Woods Sent: Wednesday, September 09, 2009 2:17 PM To: triumphs at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [TR] TR6 Pedal Shaft Bushings List, Following my failed attempt to install the currently "correct" pedal shaft bushings on a TR250, I ordered the Delrin bushing kit from Art Lipp as suggested by a couple of Listers. Installed it yesterday and am very pleased with the ease of installation and the end result. I did go to Bob Danielson's great web page to see just how the kit was to be installed. Thanks Bob. Thanks Art. Thanks List. Just wanted to pass the word. Ed Woods This list supported in part by the Vintage Triumph Register http://www.vtr.org Triumphs at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs http://www.team.net/archive From paulwillou at socal.rr.com Wed Sep 9 16:49:28 2009 From: paulwillou at socal.rr.com (Paul Willoughby) Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2009 15:49:28 -0700 Subject: [TR] Woodley Park Car Show? Van Nuys California References: <254863.53417.qm@web83302.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1E84F105D52946C2B518879FE6A863C5@paulal73q2sjay> The Woodley British Car Show has been resurrected as The Queen's English Car Show the last two years. It was on March 8, 2009 this year. A great show with 100 - 200 cars in attendance. Great to have a Los Angeles area show again. I believe it's organized by Autobooks/ Aerobooks, 3524 W Magnolia, Burbank. http://www.queens-english.org/ Contact at info at queens-english.org or by voice, (626) 797-4221 From Kinderlehrer at comcast.net Wed Sep 9 18:46:46 2009 From: Kinderlehrer at comcast.net (Kinderlehrer) Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2009 17:46:46 -0700 Subject: [TR] Woodley Park Car Show? References: <254863.53417.qm@web83302.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5C19C3CD75CE49DFA0894D5528FF2B27@Dell> The Palo Alto show has been moved to Brisbane and it's this weekend. http://www.allcarcentral.com/British_Car_Meet.html Bob ----- Original Message ----- From: "William Brewer" To: "Triumphs" Sent: Wednesday, September 09, 2009 1:42 PM Subject: [TR] Woodley Park Car Show? > In years past we had a big fall show at Woodley park in Van Nuys and > another show at Stanford Park in Palo Alto here in California. I've heard > that > they have been canceled and will be no more. San Diego still has a British > Car > day. Has something else replaced the Woodley Park car show? Rick Fiebush, > where are you?!?! > > Bill in Tehachapi From rengrave at verizon.net Wed Sep 9 20:44:09 2009 From: rengrave at verizon.net (Wayne) Date: Wed, 09 Sep 2009 22:44:09 -0400 Subject: [TR] Static Timing In-Reply-To: <20090909121022.CQE87572@ms10.lnh.mail.rcn.net> References: <20090909121022.CQE87572@ms10.lnh.mail.rcn.net> Message-ID: Ok, in the book does state that the light will go "out" and I was looking at the light going on. I have the test light conected between the positive size of the battery and the spade conector on the distributor. So my light goes on when my points are closed. My question is am I looking for the points to open or close with the static timing at 12 BTDC? I was thinking they had to be closed to fire in #1 cylinder which means my light would go on. Or should I be setting it so my points are just begining to open (my light will go out)? Why am I getting so confused about this? Ignoring my light, should the points be opening or closing? Wayne 73 TR6 ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, September 09, 2009 12:10 PM Subject: Re: [TR] Static Timing > In a message dated 9/9/2009 8:56:09 AM Central Daylight Time, > tr3driver at ca.rr.com writes: >> With points, only a mechanical flaw in the distributor >>(like the advance mechanism bent, disconnected or broken) >> would change the phasing. > > Dave Massey replied: >> Or the rotor index boss is damaged and the rotor can be >> installed improperly. (Ask me how I know) > > Or as was pointed out before, the detection of the open/closed transition > was being done at the timing when the points were closing again instead of > opening. This could be caused by the user either turning the engine the > wrong way or by looking for a test lightbulb to do the wrong thing. > > If the bulb was wired across the points or between the ignition + and > ground (which is the same as across the points), the bulb will turn on > when the points open. If the bulb was wired between + from the battery > (or any other "on" voltage source) and the ignition +, the bulb will go > out when the points open. > > Jim Muller > _______________________________________________ > > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > This list supported in part by the Vintage Triumph Register > http://www.vtr.org > > > Triumphs at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs > > > http://www.team.net/archive From sumton at sbcglobal.net Wed Sep 9 20:53:55 2009 From: sumton at sbcglobal.net (oliver) Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2009 21:53:55 -0500 Subject: [TR] Static Timing References: <20090909121022.CQE87572@ms10.lnh.mail.rcn.net> Message-ID: <4EBD6E5465414FF4B796E79763E4AD1D@ranteer.local> http://www.howstuffworks.com/ignition-system.htm ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wayne" To: ; Sent: Wednesday, September 09, 2009 9:44 PM Subject: Re: [TR] Static Timing > Ok, in the book does state that the light will go "out" and I was looking > at the light going on. > I have the test light conected between the positive size of the battery > and the spade conector on > the distributor. > So my light goes on when my points are closed. > > My question is am I looking for the points to open or close with the > static timing at 12 BTDC? > I was thinking they had to be closed to fire in #1 cylinder which means my > light would go on. > Or should I be setting it so my points are just begining to open (my light > will go out)? > Why am I getting so confused about this? > Ignoring my light, should the points be opening or closing? > > Wayne > 73 TR6 From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Wed Sep 9 20:58:49 2009 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2009 19:58:49 -0700 Subject: [TR] Static Timing In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20090910025848981.GSCM11918@cdptpa-omta04.mail.rr.com> > My question is am I looking for the points to open or close > with the static > timing at 12 BTDC? The spark happens just as the points open. Seems kind of backwards, but that's the way it works. Charles Kettering was some kind of mad genius! Randall From sumton at sbcglobal.net Wed Sep 9 21:22:05 2009 From: sumton at sbcglobal.net (oliver) Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2009 22:22:05 -0500 Subject: [TR] Static Timing References: <20090910025848981.GSCM11918@cdptpa-omta04.mail.rr.com> Message-ID: randall - correct me if i'm wrong - the closed points create a ground, and opening them allows the electrons to flow on through to the spark plug. and that is why nothing works if you install the points incorrectly - they create a continous ground. btdt ----- Original Message ----- From: "Randall" To: Sent: Wednesday, September 09, 2009 9:58 PM Subject: Re: [TR] Static Timing >> My question is am I looking for the points to open or close >> with the static >> timing at 12 BTDC? > > The spark happens just as the points open. Seems kind of backwards, but > that's the way it works. Charles Kettering was some kind of mad genius! > > Randall > _______________________________________________ > > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > This list supported in part by the Vintage Triumph Register > http://www.vtr.org > > > Triumphs at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs > > > http://www.team.net/archive From mark at bradakis.com Wed Sep 9 21:37:58 2009 From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J Bradakis) Date: Wed, 09 Sep 2009 21:37:58 -0600 Subject: [TR] Static Timing In-Reply-To: References: <20090909121022.CQE87572@ms10.lnh.mail.rcn.net> Message-ID: <4AA87496.8050108@bradakis.com> > My question is am I looking for the points to open or close with the > static timing at 12 BTDC? You want them to just be opening at that point. Look at it this way. While the points are closed, the electrons have a nice complete path from the + side of the ignition to ground. A nice, happy stream of electrons swirling through the coil on there way to a complete circuit. As soon as the points *open* the path is interrupted, all those rushing electrons in the coil suddenly have no place to go except out the high tension wire, through the distributor to a spark plug chosen by the position of the rotor. And hopefully there are enough of them to jump the gap as a spark, and that spark occurs in an area of sufficient fuel atomised in the air and there is an explosion (very rapid combustion) that forces the piston down and makes the engine go around - the 'bang' part of the 4 cycle suck, squeeze, bang and blow process. A pretty simplistic explanation, it would likely warrant an F if written on one of my college level EE exams on induction circuits, but it should be accurate enough to help you figure out how to set the static timing. I think you are trying to make this more difficult than it really is. It is *much* easier than the incredibly difficult, time consuming process, taking years to master, of using the mouse and a few clicks to highlight and delete the unneeded portions of the original message that most folks, for some unknown reason, include in their replies. mjb, grumpy ol' list admin. From triosan at gmail.com Wed Sep 9 21:43:50 2009 From: triosan at gmail.com (Chuck Arnold) Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2009 20:43:50 -0700 Subject: [TR] Picture from Kastner Cup at Portland Sept 5-6 09 Message-ID: <8cbd782d0909092043l5083eb03u5b215cc4bf36f5cb@mail.gmail.com> I have uploaded a ton of pictures at: http://picasaweb.google.com/Triosan/KastnerCupColumbiaRiverClassic09# When you are at the pictures you can also go uo to the top [all my public albums] and see all of Morty Dunst racing and getting the Cup award. Enjoy and use as you wish with credits. -- Chuck Arnold From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Wed Sep 9 21:50:28 2009 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2009 20:50:28 -0700 Subject: [TR] Static Timing In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20090910035027977.LNKQ14103@cdptpa-omta02.mail.rr.com> > randall - correct me if i'm wrong - the closed points create > a ground, and > opening them allows the electrons to flow on through to the > spark plug. Er, well, I guess kinda maybe ... Way I see it, when the points are closed it allows current to flow through the primary of the coil, which builds up a magnetic field in the core of the coil. When the points open, the magnetic field collapses very rapidly, causing a high voltage to be generated in both the primary and secondary coils. The voltage across the (now open) points goes to several hundred volts; but because the secondary has roughly 100 times as many windings as the primary, it's voltage goes into the tens of thousands of volts (hopefully whatever it takes to jump the plug gap). > and that is why nothing works if you install the points > incorrectly - they > create a continous ground. btdt Me too! Randall From jimmuller at rcn.com Thu Sep 10 05:48:31 2009 From: jimmuller at rcn.com (Jim Muller) Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 07:48:31 -0400 Subject: [TR] Static Timing In-Reply-To: References: <20090909121022.CQE87572@ms10.lnh.mail.rcn.net> Message-ID: <4AA8AF4F.19073.2E83795A@localhost> On 9 Sep 2009 at 22:44, Wayne wrote: > Or should I be setting it so my points are just begining to open (my light > will go out)? And Oliver wrote: > randall - correct me if i'm wrong... I'm sure not Randall, and I see Randall and mjb have already answered this. (It's nice to see mjb being an active participant.) But I'll toss out some info anyway. As already stated, the plugs fire when the points open. Here's why. (Oliver, the front page of that How Stuff Works link shows only a macroscopic view of the ignition.) The primary and secondary circuits in the coil are not directly connected, so the current through the points to ground is not a valve for the plug spark. The coil is two separate circuits close together so that the fields created by one will be felt by the other. A magnetic field is created when current flows. A voltage is created when a magnetic field *changes*, the faster the change the greater the voltage. When the points close current starts flowing through the primary circuit, and the buildup is slow for various reasons. Its magnetic field builds up slowly too and creates a small voltage in the seconrday circuit. When the points open however the current just stops, right now, immediately (almost). A flawed but useful analog is a water faucet. No matter how quickly you open it the water starts coming out at its own rate. Slam it closed and you hear the pipes bang as the water is forced to stop. So when the current in the primary circuit stops suddenly its magnetic field decays immediately, which induces a large voltage in the secondary circuit. It's like life. The big event ain't the pace but the sudden stop at the end. -- Jim Muller jimmuller at rcn.com '80 Spitfire, '70 GT6+ From pdqtr6 at suscom-maine.net Thu Sep 10 05:53:43 2009 From: pdqtr6 at suscom-maine.net (Tom Walling & Wendy Rose) Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 07:53:43 -0400 Subject: [TR] Static Timing In-Reply-To: <20090910035027977.LNKQ14103@cdptpa-omta02.mail.rr.com> References: <20090910035027977.LNKQ14103@cdptpa-omta02.mail.rr.com> Message-ID: Actually, the voltage at the points never exceeds 6 - 12 vdc (ballasted or unballasted coil). The high voltage that the spark plugs use is generated by the collapse of the magnetic field described below and it goes directly from the coil to the dizzy cap via the thick ignition wire from the center of the coil to the center of the cap. It does jump the gap between the rotor and the end of the ignition wire that goes to the spark plug, and again at the gap of the plug. The points energize the primary windings (heavy wire on the outside of the internals) when closed or making contact. When they open, the magnetic field in the primary windings collapses causing a large voltage increase in the secondary windings which is an iron rod with a thin copper wire wrapped around it thousands of times. Therefore, static timing is attempting to set the points so they are beginning to open at the proper moment when the piston is at the optimum position for ignition as measured by crank-shaft angle. In other words, when the timing mark is at the pointer, the points should just have opened (test light off). ----- Original Message ----- From: "Randall" To: Sent: Wednesday, September 09, 2009 11:50 PM Subject: Re: [TR] Static Timing >> randall - correct me if i'm wrong - the closed points create >> a ground, and >> opening them allows the electrons to flow on through to the >> spark plug. > > Er, well, I guess kinda maybe ... > > Way I see it, when the points are closed it allows current to flow through > the primary of the coil, which builds up a magnetic field in the core of > the > coil. When the points open, the magnetic field collapses very rapidly, > causing a high voltage to be generated in both the primary and secondary > coils. The voltage across the (now open) points goes to several hundred > volts; but because the secondary has roughly 100 times as many windings as > the primary, it's voltage goes into the tens of thousands of volts > (hopefully whatever it takes to jump the plug gap). > >> and that is why nothing works if you install the points >> incorrectly - they >> create a continous ground. btdt > > Me too! > > Randall > _______________________________________________ > > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > This list supported in part by the Vintage Triumph Register > http://www.vtr.org > > > Triumphs at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs > > > http://www.team.net/archive From TRDOCTOR at aol.com Thu Sep 10 06:35:17 2009 From: TRDOCTOR at aol.com (TRDOCTOR at aol.com) Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 08:35:17 EDT Subject: [TR] [VTR] Goodnight, list? Message-ID: I truly enjoy my daily email list. I learn something new almost everyday. You have done a great job and I appreciate it. Sam In a message dated 9/10/2009 2:45:09 A.M. Central Daylight Time, mark at bradakis.com writes: Is there any reason to keep vtr at autox.team.net around? Does it serve a purpose not met by the forums on the VTR website? mjb the list janitor. This list supported in part by the Vintage Triumph Register http://www.vtr.org You are recieving this at trdoctor at aol.com Vtr at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/vtr http://www.team.net/archive From mcmeganutt at aol.com Thu Sep 10 06:51:05 2009 From: mcmeganutt at aol.com (mcmeganutt at aol.com) Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 08:51:05 -0400 Subject: [TR] Connecticut Triumph Register 29th Annual British Motorcar Gathering Message-ID: <8CC002C7E8D9EBC-37F0-23FCD@webmail-d038.sysops.aol.com> This Sunday September 13th marks the 29th Annual CTR British Motorcar Gathering and Picnic to be held at Wickham Park, Manchester, CT. from 9:00am to 3:30pm. For additional show information and car registration forms go to www.CTRiumph.com. For info on Wickham Park go to www.wickhampark.org From supertr6 at earthlink.net Thu Sep 10 07:50:23 2009 From: supertr6 at earthlink.net (Joe Burlein) Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 09:50:23 -0400 Subject: [TR] Tonneau cover purchase In-Reply-To: <3E9E7022C0894158A68BA372B3F162CB@joepentiumnew> References: <4AA44D98.7040701@earthlink.net> <3E9E7022C0894158A68BA372B3F162CB@joepentiumnew> Message-ID: <4AA9041F.8020604@earthlink.net> Hey Joe, I meant, was it an original option? Joe Joe Curry wrote: > Moss has them listed in two types of material (Sun-fast Cloth and Vinyl) and > the cloth in 3 colors (black, tan and blue). > > But they are a bit pricey ($758.96 for cloth and $370.95 for vinyl. > > Joe C. > > -----Original Message----- > From: triumphs-bounces at autox.team.net > [mailto:triumphs-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Joe Burlein > Sent: Sunday, September 06, 2009 5:03 PM > To: Mike Coe > Cc: triumphs at autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [TR] Tonneau cover purchase > > Did they make a cover for the TR7/8? > > Joe > > Mike Coe wrote: > >> I'd appreciate purchasing from anyone a tonneau cover for my TR8. One from >> > a > >> TR7 would also apply. Thanks very much. Mike. coefront at shaw.ca >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> This list supported in part by the Vintage Triumph Register >> http://www.vtr.org >> >> >> Triumphs at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs >> >> >> http://www.team.net/archive >> > _______________________________________________ > > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > This list supported in part by the Vintage Triumph Register > http://www.vtr.org > > > Triumphs at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs > > > http://www.team.net/archive From mtgaines at mail.presby.edu Thu Sep 10 04:38:13 2009 From: mtgaines at mail.presby.edu (Tim Gaines) Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 10:38:13 +0000 Subject: [TR] [VTR] Goodnight, list? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Me too! I would miss this list. Tim >I truly enjoy my daily email list. I learn something new almost everyday. > You have done a great job and I appreciate it. > >Sam > > >In a message dated 9/10/2009 2:45:09 A.M. Central Daylight Time, >mark at bradakis.com writes: > >Is there any reason to keep vtr at autox.team.net around? Does it serve a >purpose >not met by the forums on the VTR website? > >mjb the list janitor. >This list supported in part by the Vintage Triumph Register >http://www.vtr.org > >You are recieving this at trdoctor at aol.com From brad.kahler at 141.com Thu Sep 10 08:55:54 2009 From: brad.kahler at 141.com (Brad Kahler) Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 14:55:54 GMT Subject: [TR] [VTR] Goodnight, list? Message-ID: <200909100855236.SM07524@[166.70.182.42]> I believe Mark was referring to the VTR email list. It see's very little traffic that is usally covered on the TRIUMHPHS list so I'm guessing he would like to eliminate the VTR list. Just guessing of course. Brad 1961 TR4 On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 6:38 AM, Tim Gaines wrote: Me too! I would miss this list. Tim I truly enjoy my daily email list. I learn something new almost everyday. You have done a great job and I appreciate it. Sam In a message dated 9/10/2009 2:45:09 A.M. Central Daylight Time, mark at bradakis.com writes: Is there any reason to keep vtr at autox.team.net around? Does it serve a purpose not met by the forums on the VTR website? mjb the list janitor. From spitlist at cox.net Thu Sep 10 09:07:41 2009 From: spitlist at cox.net (Joe Curry) Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 08:07:41 -0700 Subject: [TR] Tonneau cover purchase In-Reply-To: <4AA9041F.8020604@earthlink.net> References: <4AA44D98.7040701@earthlink.net> <3E9E7022C0894158A68BA372B3F162CB@joepentiumnew> <4AA9041F.8020604@earthlink.net> Message-ID: Having never owned a Wedge, I couldn't say. But I can't imagine that they weren't offered. JOe _____ From: Joe Burlein [mailto:supertr6 at earthlink.net] Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2009 6:50 AM To: Joe Curry Cc: 'Mike Coe'; triumphs at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [TR] Tonneau cover purchase Hey Joe, I meant, was it an original option? Joe Joe Curry wrote: Moss has them listed in two types of material (Sun-fast Cloth and Vinyl) and the cloth in 3 colors (black, tan and blue). But they are a bit pricey ($758.96 for cloth and $370.95 for vinyl. Joe C. -----Original Message----- From: triumphs-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:triumphs-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Joe Burlein Sent: Sunday, September 06, 2009 5:03 PM To: Mike Coe Cc: triumphs at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [TR] Tonneau cover purchase Did they make a cover for the TR7/8? Joe Mike Coe wrote: I'd appreciate purchasing from anyone a tonneau cover for my TR8. One from a TR7 would also apply. Thanks very much. Mike. coefront at shaw.ca This list supported in part by the Vintage Triumph Register http://www.vtr.org Triumphs at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs http://www.team.net/archive This list supported in part by the Vintage Triumph Register http://www.vtr.org Triumphs at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs http://www.team.net/archive From tswhitez123 at hotmail.com Thu Sep 10 09:37:16 2009 From: tswhitez123 at hotmail.com (tom white) Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 15:37:16 +0000 Subject: [TR] Static Timing In-Reply-To: <20090910025848981.GSCM11918@cdptpa-omta04.mail.rr.com> References: <20090910025848981.GSCM11918@cdptpa-omta04.mail.rr.com> Message-ID: The sequence of events that produce ignition spark are actually electromagnetic. When distributor points are closed the circuit through the coil is closed and a magnetic field is formed around the carbon core in the coil. When the points open the circuit through the coil is broken and the magnetic field collapses on the carbon core. This collapse of the magnetic field produces the charge that is then discharged to the distributor cap. Best regards, Tom _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live: Make it easier for your friends to see what youre up to on Facebook. http://windowslive.com/Campaign/SocialNetworking?ocid=PID23285::T:WLMTAGL:ON: WL:en-US:SI_SB_facebook:082009 From opposumking at verizon.net Thu Sep 10 09:38:11 2009 From: opposumking at verizon.net (Nolan) Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 11:38:11 -0400 Subject: [TR] Static Timing References: <20090910035027977.LNKQ14103@cdptpa-omta02.mail.rr.com> Message-ID: <005b01ca322c$b47f9390$230bfea9@mde.state.md.us> > Actually, the voltage at the points never exceeds 6 - 12 vdc (ballasted or > unballasted coil). The points see quite a high voltage. The whole system is a tuned LCR circuit. Just like a spring, a weight and a damper. When the field collapses and fires the plug the whole thing promptly rebounds the other way, just not as high. This voltage is seen at the points. It rebounds again, not as high, and frequently fires the spark plug a second time. This cycling continues, progressively diminishing, until it settles down. The capaciter is there in the circuit to dampen down this oscillating. It stops it quickly and gets the circuit ready for the next spark plug firing. Incidentally to this dampening the capaciter helps prevent arcing across the points when the voltage surge rebounds. You can hook up the ignition to a scope and watch this. From McGaheyRx at aol.com Thu Sep 10 09:48:55 2009 From: McGaheyRx at aol.com (McGaheyRx at aol.com) Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 11:48:55 EDT Subject: [TR] Tonneau cover purchase Message-ID: They were NOT offered originally on the TR 7/8 - so getting one involves installing snaps and posts in places that were not originally intended to accommodate them - haven't installed one on any of mine, so not sure how much of a problem that is or isn't Cheers, Jack Mc In a message dated 9/10/2009 11:15:20 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, spitlist at cox.net writes: Having never owned a Wedge, I couldn't say. But I can't imagine that they weren't offered. From sumton at sbcglobal.net Thu Sep 10 10:47:59 2009 From: sumton at sbcglobal.net (oliver) Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 11:47:59 -0500 Subject: [TR] [VTR] Goodnight, list? References: <200909100855236.SM07524@[166.70.182.42]> Message-ID: <446DA308AC334AD5B352163BAF1CFD65@ranteer.local> i don't subscribe to the vtr list . . . . ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brad Kahler" To: Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2009 9:55 AM Subject: Re: [TR] [VTR] Goodnight, list? >I believe Mark was referring to the VTR email list. It see's very little > traffic that is usally covered on the TRIUMHPHS list so I'm guessing he > would > like to eliminate the VTR list. > > Just guessing of course. > > Brad > 1961 TR4 > > > > In a message dated 9/10/2009 2:45:09 A.M. Central Daylight Time, > mark at bradakis.com writes: > > Is there any reason to keep vtr at autox.team.net around? Does it serve a > purpose > not met by the forums on the VTR website? > > mjb the list janitor. > _______________________________________________ From spitlist at cox.net Thu Sep 10 11:07:15 2009 From: spitlist at cox.net (Joe Curry) Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 10:07:15 -0700 Subject: [TR] Tonneau cover purchase In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <998DDF53D98E491FA0D6CB6CAF29B2DC@joepentiumnew> Interesting! _____ From: McGaheyRx at aol.com [mailto:McGaheyRx at aol.com] Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2009 8:49 AM To: spitlist at cox.net; supertr6 at earthlink.net Cc: triumphs at autox.team.net; coefront at shaw.ca Subject: Re: [TR] Tonneau cover purchase They were NOT offered originally on the TR 7/8 - so getting one involves installing snaps and posts in places that were not originally intended to accommodate them - haven't installed one on any of mine, so not sure how much of a problem that is or isn't Cheers, Jack Mc In a message dated 9/10/2009 11:15:20 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, spitlist at cox.net writes: Having never owned a Wedge, I couldn't say. But I can't imagine that they weren't offered. From mark at bradakis.com Thu Sep 10 11:02:27 2009 From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J Bradakis) Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 11:02:27 -0600 Subject: [TR] [VTR] Goodnight, list? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4AA93123.109@bradakis.com> Tim Gaines wrote: > Me too! I would miss this list. You misunderstood. I was only talking about vtr at autox.team.net, NOT this list, triumphs at autox.team.net. The former gets what amounts to no relevant traffic, this list does indeed stay pretty busy. They are two distinct, separate lists. For those who might be unaware, these are the current lists served by mailman from Team.Net - go to http://www.team.net/mailman/listinfo for more info: 2000-register - Triumph 2000 discussion 6pack - 6pack TR6 discussions Alpines - Sunbeam Alpine Discussion Amphicar - Amphicar Enthusiasts list Aston-martin - Aston Martin vehicle discussion Autojumble - Automotive related buy and sell Autox - Autocross discussion Ba-autox - SF Bay Area autocross discussion Bmcu - British Motor Club of Utah Bmw-Mini - Discussions about the new BMW Mini Bricklin - Bricklin automobile discussion British-cars - British car discussions British-cars-pre-war - Pre WWII British automobile discussion Buick-rover-v8 - Discussion applications for the Buick-Rover V8 Cahc - Cascade Austin Healey Club Chapman-era - British Sports cars inspired by Colin Chapman Curved-dash-olds - Curved Dash Oldsmobiles, 1900 - 1905 Datsun-roadsters - Datsun Roadster discussion DMVR - DMVR Formula-ford - Discussion of SCCA Formula Fords of various types Fot - Friends of Triumph Glen-scca-racing - SCCA Glen region road racing list goldcoast - Gold Coast British Car Club Gta - Georgia Triumph Association Healeys - Austin Healey Discussion Jagnuts - JAGNUTS Regina Judson - Judson supercharger discussion Land-speed - Land Speed racing Lotus-cars - Lotus cars, past, present, future LSUFSAE - Mailing list for LSU's FSAE Team LSUminibaja - [no description available] Marcos - Marcos sports car discussion Mg-mmm - Discussion about MG Triple M vehicles Mg-t - MG T series vehicle discussion Mgb-v8 - V8 powered MG discussion Mgs - MG Sports Car discussion Miata - Mazda Miata discussion Migcruisers - [no description available] Morgans - Morgan Automobiles Discussion Morris - Morris automobile discussion Nobbc - North Bay British Car Club Oletrucks - Chevy/GM trucks from 1941 - 59 Shop-talk - Random workshop related discussion Shotimes - Ford SHO Product discussion list Single-malt - Scotch appreciation Spitfires - Triumph Spitfire Discussion Spridgets - Sprite and Midget discussions Team-thicko - irreverent VIntage Racing stuff The-local - Random chatter for team.net folks Tigers - Sunbeam Tigers Tr-gang - Private List Triumphs - Triumph Sports car discussion Tvr - TVR Sports car discussion Vintage-race - Various Vintage Racing issues and chatter Vtow - Vintage Triumphs of Wisconsin Vtr - Discussion for Vintage Triumph Register folks Wichitapca - Whicta PCA group WMJR - Wasatch Mountain Jaguar Register A few are still under majordomo, eventually I'll get them all migrated: ccmgc Capitol City MG Car Club list glen-scca Open discussion for local interest. Glen Region (Watkin italia Triumph Italia discussion list kcr-scca mini-baja List for discussions about SAE Mini-Baja vehicles mini-list discussions about Austin/B.L./Rover Minis mini-list-digest Collection of mini-list mail articles okla_scca Oklahoma region SCCA discussion list riley Discussion about Riley automobiles rolls-bentley Discussion about Rolls-Royce and Bentley motorcars solo-vee wichita-scca mjb. From anabil007 at comcast.net Thu Sep 10 16:38:26 2009 From: anabil007 at comcast.net (Bill) Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 15:38:26 -0700 Subject: [TR] ZDDP Info Message-ID: I decided to go direct to the "horses mouth" about ZDDP, got this answer from Red Line in less than 24 hours. Thank you for contacting Red Line Oil, yes absolutely we have good levels of ZDDP in our oils, the Motor oils including the 20W50 contain 1330 ppm zinc and more importantly for anti-wear protection 1200 ppm phosphorus. In your Triumphs I would recommend and prefer the 10W40 a better all around viscosity for those engines, unless you need the higher viscosity 20W50. Regards, Dave Red Line Oil -- "Thinking is the hardest work there is. That's why so few people undertake it." - Henry Ford Bill Pugh 1957 TR3 "Casper" TS16765L Wallace, CA From thenicholls at verizon.net Thu Sep 10 17:04:09 2009 From: thenicholls at verizon.net (thenicholls at verizon.net) Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 18:04:09 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [TR] ZDDP Info Message-ID: <15019838.96464.1252623849288.JavaMail.root@vms064.mailsrvcs.net> Bill, Of course, Red Line is going to tell you that. The oil is a synthetic, and I have seen many, many posts on the migration to synthetic and it just scares me. I already have a drip rug under the 72 TR6 to check fluids as we speak. I will post to the list my latest project test. I changed the oil at the start of summer with Castrol 5W-20 that it has had for 37 years, and added a bottle of ZDDP. I requested a test kit from BlackStone Laboratories. It was free but I have to pay a few dollars for analysis. When I change my oil for the winter, I am sending a sample to them. I will share with the list the complete analysis when it comes back. The fact that Charles and TRF have now started to market and sell the stuff and what he wrote about it, that he is adding it to his current oil tends to make me think I am going in the right direction. List, don't crush me. I know this is a sore subject and don't want to debate it. Let me pay for the analysis because I am really curious and the list has saved me many $$$$ (please don't close it), so I want to give back. As for British car shops in the Washington DC area, one says Redline, the other says Castrol and no ZDDP. For me, I will let the test decide. Hope this helps! Craig H. Nicholls 72 TR6 Vienna, VA On Sep 10, 2009, Bill wrote: I decided to go direct to the "horses mouth" about ZDDP, got this answer from Red Line in less than 24 hours. Thank you for contacting Red Line Oil, yes absolutely we have good levels of ZDDP in our oils, the Motor oils including the 20W50 contain 1330 ppm zinc and more importantly for anti-wear protection 1200 ppm phosphorus. In your Triumphs I would recommend and prefer the 10W40 a better all around viscosity for those engines, unless you need the higher viscosity 20W50. Regards, Dave Red Line Oil -- "Thinking is the hardest work there is. That's why so few people undertake it." - Henry Ford Bill Pugh 1957 TR3 "Casper" TS16765L Wallace, CA This list supported in part by the Vintage Triumph Register http://www.vtr.org Triumphs at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs http://www.team.net/archive From rengrave at verizon.net Thu Sep 10 18:25:03 2009 From: rengrave at verizon.net (Wayne) Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 20:25:03 -0400 Subject: [TR] Spin-on Oil Filter Message-ID: <197E6C9DCD774BB5A022CF098EE1ACB9@RossFamily> Installing the Spin-on Oil Filter Adaptor on the TR6 and wondering at what position others have managed to fit it onto the engine. I have it pointing down and slightly toward the front of the engine. However, the gas line "rubber hose" is rubbing against it. I don't really want anything to be rubbing on it but this position seems to be the only position it can be. Also what type of "spin-on" oil filter is everyone using? I have a cheap purolator (L20195 cross-referenced from the fram number that was out of stock) for the initial break-in, but plan on using the K&N brand, is this the right choice, or not worth the extra cash? Thanks to everyone on answering my question on static timing, I learned a lot. Wayne 73 TR6 From tony at tonydrews.com Thu Sep 10 18:49:35 2009 From: tony at tonydrews.com (Tony Drews) Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 19:49:35 -0500 Subject: [TR] Tri vs Bi-metal Bearings In-Reply-To: <000001ca314f$576366b0$062a3410$@rr.com> References: <000001ca314f$576366b0$062a3410$@rr.com> Message-ID: <20090911004944.F2DC1187650@autox.team.net> The Tri-metal is the only type of bearing I use in my race motor... I also have them ceramic coated prior to installation. http://www.calicocoatings.com/bearings.html - Tony Drews At 08:13 AM 9/9/2009, John & Pat Donnelly wrote: >I'm about to order bearings for my 4A and find out I have choices to make. >King Engine Bearings (and maybe others) puts out a tri-metal bearing that >they claim is "better" because it's harder and lasts longer. Anybody have >any experience with these? > > > >Johnnie >_______________________________________________ > >Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > >This list supported in part by the Vintage Triumph Register >http://www.vtr.org > > >Triumphs at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs > > >http://www.team.net/archive From thenicholls at verizon.net Thu Sep 10 19:14:37 2009 From: thenicholls at verizon.net (thenicholls at verizon.net) Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 20:14:37 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [TR] Spin-on Oil Filter Message-ID: <20379535.100195.1252631677072.JavaMail.root@vms064.mailsrvcs.net> My is angeld slightly to the front of the car, gas filter is near but nothing rubbing on it. Use the Purolator PL20195, never had an issue. Craig 72 TR6 Vienna, VA On Sep 10, 2009, Wayne wrote: Installing the Spin-on Oil Filter Adaptor on the TR6 and wondering at what position others have managed to fit it onto the engine. I have it pointing down and slightly toward the front of the engine. However, the gas line "rubber hose" is rubbing against it. I don't really want anything to be rubbing on it but this position seems to be the only position it can be. Also what type of "spin-on" oil filter is everyone using? I have a cheap purolator (L20195 cross-referenced from the fram number that was out of stock) for the initial break-in, but plan on using the K&N brand, is this the right choice, or not worth the extra cash? Thanks to everyone on answering my question on static timing, I learned a lot. Wayne 73 TR6 This list supported in part by the Vintage Triumph Register http://www.vtr.org Triumphs at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs http://www.team.net/archive From triosan at gmail.com Thu Sep 10 20:06:14 2009 From: triosan at gmail.com (Chuck Arnold) Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 19:06:14 -0700 Subject: [TR] 4 speed tranny tail piece Message-ID: <8cbd782d0909101906y364e425dxa581602614b5085@mail.gmail.com> Does anybody have a tail peice left over from converting a 4 speed TR4-6 tranny to overdrive? Could use one,and though I got one last year, I could use the 4 speed main shaft also. IF so, let me know your price. I am in Seattle for shipping cost purposes [zip 98109] Thanks -- Chuck Arnold From jimmuller at rcn.com Thu Sep 10 20:57:02 2009 From: jimmuller at rcn.com (Jim Muller) Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 22:57:02 -0400 Subject: [TR] ZDDP Info In-Reply-To: <15019838.96464.1252623849288.JavaMail.root@vms064.mailsrvcs.net> Message-ID: <4AA9843E.456.31C33EA4@localhost> On 10 Sep 2009 at 18:04, thenicholls at verizon.net wrote: > The oil is a synthetic, and I have seen many, many posts on > the migration to synthetic and it just scares me... > List, don't crush me. Crush you? Never. I will however relate my conclusion about synthetic oil. Two(?) years ago I switched the GT6 over to synthetic, first Valvoline then Mobil-1 because it was easier to find a higher viscosity. The only problem I've experienced was after the last oil change the oil pressure light would flicker at idle, but only after the engine was thoroughly hot. As I had not seen that before I thought it was the oil but eventually remembered that I'd also lowered the idle dramatically as an experiement. For various reasons I ended up pushing it back to about 1000rpm, and the flickering disappeared. I have never seen any evidence of leaking from the engine. It has not seemed to disappear or burn off. Of course I haven't taken the engine apart either but, knock on wood, I have had no reason to. As far as I can tell, it just does what it is supposed to do. I would trust the chemists at either Valvoline or Mobil to know what they are doing far more than I would trust myself or any I-read-it-on-a-website report. Just my experience. -- Jim Muller jimmuller at rcn.com '80 Spitfire, '70 GT6+ From thenicholls at verizon.net Thu Sep 10 21:08:46 2009 From: thenicholls at verizon.net (thenicholls at verizon.net) Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 22:08:46 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [TR] ZDDP Info Message-ID: <21475143.102974.1252638526388.JavaMail.root@vms064.mailsrvcs.net> Will do the test and pass the information to the list. Thanks..........Craig On Sep 10, 2009, Jim Muller wrote: On 10 Sep 2009 at 18:04, thenicholls at verizon.net wrote: > The oil is a synthetic, and I have seen many, many posts on > the migration to synthetic and it just scares me... > List, don't crush me. Crush you? Never. I will however relate my conclusion about synthetic oil. Two(?) years ago I switched the GT6 over to synthetic, first Valvoline then Mobil-1 because it was easier to find a higher viscosity. The only problem I've experienced was after the last oil change the oil pressure light would flicker at idle, but only after the engine was thoroughly hot. As I had not seen that before I thought it was the oil but eventually remembered that I'd also lowered the idle dramatically as an experiement. For various reasons I ended up pushing it back to about 1000rpm, and the flickering disappeared. I have never seen any evidence of leaking from the engine. It has not seemed to disappear or burn off. Of course I haven't taken the engine apart either but, knock on wood, I have had no reason to. As far as I can tell, it just does what it is supposed to do. I would trust the chemists at either Valvoline or Mobil to know what they are doing far more than I would trust myself or any I-read-it-on-a-website report. Just my experience. -- Jim Muller jimmuller at rcn.com '80 Spitfire, '70 GT6+ This list supported in part by the Vintage Triumph Register http://www.vtr.org Triumphs at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs http://www.team.net/archive From emanteno at gmail.com Thu Sep 10 21:24:42 2009 From: emanteno at gmail.com (Irv Korey) Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 22:24:42 -0500 Subject: [TR] Spin-on Oil Filter In-Reply-To: <197E6C9DCD774BB5A022CF098EE1ACB9@RossFamily> References: <197E6C9DCD774BB5A022CF098EE1ACB9@RossFamily> Message-ID: <354a1780909102024m3981226fjba50013689f220c6@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 7:25 PM, Wayne wrote: > Installing the Spin-on Oil Filter Adaptor on the TR6 and wondering at what > position others have managed to fit it onto the engine. > I have it pointing down and slightly toward the front of the engine. Mine is that way as well. The fuel line is not an issue for me as I have gone to an electric pump and re-routed my lines. I use a NAPA Gold 1516 filter. I also used Purolator PL20195. Irv Korey 74 TR6 CF22767U Highland Park, IL From don at napanet.net Thu Sep 10 23:14:04 2009 From: don at napanet.net (don) Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 22:14:04 -0700 Subject: [TR] question about renovating leather seats In-Reply-To: <354a1780909102024m3981226fjba50013689f220c6@mail.gmail.com > References: <197E6C9DCD774BB5A022CF098EE1ACB9@RossFamily> <354a1780909102024m3981226fjba50013689f220c6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6.0.3.0.1.20090910220321.04391938@pop.napanet.net> >I finally did it. I bought a TR4A. It's back in Ohio. Mostly original >car, so some parts are worn. It has black leather seats which are showing their age. Has anyone on the list found any leather renovating products that really do work? I have seen ads in various car magazines which promise a lot, but not sure what they really deliver. Years ago I bought some liquid leather treatment products for my '91 Miata which had tan leather seats which were a bit worn. The stuff didn't seem to do much good! So, just got another Miata, ten years newer instead and the seats in it are in great shape. Can't do that with a TR4A though. Don Scott 2001 Miata SE BRG 1967 TR4A 1962 MGA 1973 MGB GT From Dave1massey at cs.com Fri Sep 11 06:12:07 2009 From: Dave1massey at cs.com (Dave1massey at cs.com) Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 08:12:07 EDT Subject: [TR] question about renovating leather seats Message-ID: In a message dated 9/11/2009 12:17:26 AM Central Daylight Time, don at napanet.net writes: > It has black leather seats which are showing their age. Has anyone on > the > list found any leather renovating products that really do work? I have > seen ads in various car magazines which promise a lot, but not sure what > they really deliver. > Go to the experts. Look for a tack shop or saddle maker and consult with them. In a pinch a local Farm and Fleet or Tractor Supply outlet may have something that will work. Skip the leather care products at the Auto Schlepper. They're bupkis. Dave From zoboherald at aol.com Fri Sep 11 07:52:15 2009 From: zoboherald at aol.com (Andrew Mace) Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 09:52:15 -0400 Subject: [TR] question about renovating leather seats In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8CC00FE345C65AA-1E88-31A5@webmail-m015.sysops.aol.com> -----Original Message----- From: Dave1massey at cs.com Go to the experts. Look for a tack shop or saddle maker and consult with them. In a pinch a local Farm and Fleet or Tractor Supply outlet may have something that will work. Skip the leather care products at the Auto Schlepper. They're bupkis. ==AM== I couldn't agree more. Any good tack shop or similar that caters to the riding set (be it Western, English, hunt, dressage, whatever) will have the products that work. Last I knew, Lexol products were still among the very best, that advice coming from a well-respected tack shop who advised me to use same on leather strapping for a church tower chime set -- but I digress). Whatever you use, don't expect instant and amazing results; if it took 40+ years to get where it is, it ain't gonna get back to new -- period -- and it will take some effort to get it back at all. But it's amazing how well one can bring back leather seating with work and patience. --Andy Mace *Mrs Irrelevant: Oh, is it a jet? *Man: Well, no ... It's not so much of a jet, it's more your, er, Triumph Herald engine with wings. -- Cut-price Airlines Sketch, Monty Python's Flying Circus (22) Triumph 10 / Herald / Sports 6 vehicle consultant, The Vintage Triumph Register: http://www.vtr.org Check out the North American Triumph Sports 6 (Vitesse 6) and Triumph Herald Database: http://triumph-herald.us From StagByTriumph at triumphstagclub.org Thu Sep 3 21:44:11 2009 From: StagByTriumph at triumphstagclub.org (Glenn A. Merrell - TSN) Date: Thu, 03 Sep 2009 21:44:11 -0600 Subject: [TR] TTA Charity Drive, VTR and Triumphest / North American Triumph Challenge 2009 Message-ID: <4AA08D0B.9060800@triumphstagclub.org> Hi All, As you may know, Triumphest / North American Triumph Challenge 2009 in San Luis Obispo California is the completion of this epic first of a kind drive in any Triumph, possibly for any car. This completion is, by the countdown clock on the Triumph site http://www.vtr-triumphest-2009.com/ about 26 days as of this posting. As John heads toward Calgary Canada and his drive becomes overall shorter in the TTA Stag as he nears the completion point, I am very pleased to learn tonight that the VTR will once again support this drive by having John and Liz Macartney as their Honored VIP Guests at Triumphest / NATC 2009. So, registration request resolved!! On behalf of John and Liz Macartney, and as the Coordinator of the Triumph Trans America Charity Drive 2009, I would like to express my sincere thanks to the VTR Board for this generous response, and all the support along this historic drive. Speaking about epic drives - and not to discount in the least the pretty darn good ones this drive has seen to date, but Triumph Travelers Sports Car Club in the San Francisco Bay area are planning a Gran Finale drive down 1A from Monterey to SLO on the morning of 30th of September. What a fitting finale for TTA and a great kickoff for Triumphest / NATC 2009!! All in the planning stages right now, but this will be one of the great drives of this year covering over 150 miles of California coastal drive down the famous California Scenic Highway 1A. If you are driving out to Triumphest from anywhere north, east, or close from the south, THIS is the drive you need to meet up with to complete your arrival to SLO. You have 26 days to complete your route planning to include this route. Miss it, and you will be hearing everyone else talking about how excellent it WAS ... all during the show. BTW, some rooms are sporadically coming available in the booked host hotel and overflow, so check with the host club organizers on a regular basis and don't forget to get your registration in NOW! And regalia orders must be received by NOON FRIDAY the 4th of September! So get your orders in and PAID to the host club NOW! Got more time? Met up with John in Western Canada, Vancouver, Washington, Oregon and take the 1A drive of a lifetime with the other great Pacific Coast Triumph / VTR clubs! Just PLEASE, make your own arrangements, this is not an organized Stay tuned! Gran Finale details will be posted on the TTA web site and Triumph lists soon! -- Glenn Merrell Triumph Trans America Charity Drive 2009 Coordinator TSN Admin http://www.triumphstag.net mailto:StagByTriumph at triumphstagclub.org From mark at bradakis.com Fri Sep 11 19:59:25 2009 From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J Bradakis) Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 19:59:25 -0600 Subject: [TR] [VTR] Goodnight, list? In-Reply-To: <4AAA8FCB.5030509@triumphstagclub.org> References: <4AA8AD37.908@bradakis.com> <4AA95D01.7060005@triumphstagclub.org> <4AA9D6A9.2050209@bradakis.com> <4AAA8FCB.5030509@triumphstagclub.org> Message-ID: <4AAB007D.8080207@bradakis.com> > I'd like to see the lists go a bit more real time social networks, > somewhat like Facebook or Twitter, but without the superfluous > chitchat. Sort of like, > > " Hey, I have this part in my hand, it looks like {this photo > embeded}. Anyone know which way round it goes?" > > And 5 minutes later or less you get a response ... > > "Yeah Mate, the end you have your thumb on goes on first. And BTW, > here is a link to Club 4's video on the installation {click and view > the video}." > People can do that now, the triumph forum at http://www.team.net/forums allows pictures. And clickable links can be embedded in not only the forum, but in plain text email as well. Look at all the links at the bottom of this message. [*] I've had such capability set up in various guises for years. But nobody uses it, so nobody uses it. Most folks want to keep doing it they way they've been doing it for the last 20 or so years I've kept Team.Net on the air. mjb. *: There's a link to the mailman page where folks can set their preferences for list delivery and such. It has been I don't remember how long since I've started switching lists from majordomo to mailman, but there are still folks who try to use majordomo to manage their subscriptions. You can lead a horse to water .... mjb. From StagByTriumph at triumphstagclub.org Fri Sep 11 21:36:16 2009 From: StagByTriumph at triumphstagclub.org (Glenn A. Merrell - TSN) Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 21:36:16 -0600 Subject: [TR] [VTR] Goodnight, list? In-Reply-To: <4AAB007D.8080207@bradakis.com> References: <4AA8AD37.908@bradakis.com> <4AA95D01.7060005@triumphstagclub.org> <4AA9D6A9.2050209@bradakis.com> <4AAA8FCB.5030509@triumphstagclub.org> <4AAB007D.8080207@bradakis.com> Message-ID: <4AAB1730.2060703@triumphstagclub.org> I guess one of those tools in the toolbox I never knew was there! I'll have to get it out of the toolbox and dust it off! -- Glenn Merrell TSN Admin http://www.triumphstag.net mailto:StagByTriumph at triumphstagclub.org Mark J Bradakis wrote: >> I'd like to see the lists go a bit more real time social networks, >> somewhat like Facebook or Twitter, but without the superfluous >> chitchat. Sort of like, >> >> " Hey, I have this part in my hand, it looks like {this photo >> embeded}. Anyone know which way round it goes?" >> >> And 5 minutes later or less you get a response ... >> >> "Yeah Mate, the end you have your thumb on goes on first. And BTW, >> here is a link to Club 4's video on the installation {click and view >> the video}." >> > People can do that now, the triumph forum at > http://www.team.net/forums allows pictures. And > clickable links can be embedded in not only the forum, but in plain > text email as well. Look at > all the links at the bottom of this message. [*] > > I've had such capability set up in various guises for years. But > nobody uses it, so nobody uses > it. Most folks want to keep doing it they way they've been doing it > for the last 20 or so years > I've kept Team.Net on the air. > > mjb. > > *: There's a link to the mailman page where folks can set their > preferences for list delivery > and such. It has been I don't remember how long since I've > started switching lists from > majordomo to mailman, but there are still folks who try to use > majordomo to manage > their subscriptions. You can lead a horse to water .... > > > > mjb. From jimmuller at rcn.com Sat Sep 12 06:22:01 2009 From: jimmuller at rcn.com (Jim Muller) Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 08:22:01 -0400 Subject: [TR] [VTR] Goodnight, list? In-Reply-To: <4AAB1730.2060703@triumphstagclub.org> References: <4AAB007D.8080207@bradakis.com> Message-ID: <4AAB5A29.27492.38EEDF4C@localhost> >> " Hey, I have this part in my hand, it looks like {this photo >> embeded}. Anyone know which way round it goes?" >> >> And 5 minutes later or less you get a response ... >> >> "Yeah Mate, the end you have your thumb on goes on first. And BTW, >> here is a link to Club 4's video on the installation {click and view >> the video}." Whenever I have my thumb on one end of a part and could benefit from an instant response it is extremely unlikely that I would wish ever to touch my computer. I will not even mention the fact that I almost never have a computer in the garage at all. When one needs an instant response the best time to request it is long before the part comes to hand. Of course that just my own opinion. Different tools for different fools, or something like that. -- Jim Muller jimmuller at rcn.com '80 Spitfire, '70 GT6+ From chandler.rick at comcast.net Sat Sep 12 10:03:33 2009 From: chandler.rick at comcast.net (Rick) Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 09:03:33 -0700 Subject: [TR] Spin-On Oil Filter Message-ID: Wayne, The following filters will work with your adapter: K&N HP 2009 AC PFL400A WIX 51516 WIX 51762 The K&N filter has the enormous advantage of a socket-friendly nut on the end; makes removal a snap. It's about 12 bucks at your FLAPS. Rick Chandler 2414 73rd Avenue SE Mercer Island WA 98040 Home 206 236 8662 Cell 206 909 8408 [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of image001.jpg] From wisejohna at gmail.com Sat Sep 12 10:12:36 2009 From: wisejohna at gmail.com (John A. Wise) Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 09:12:36 -0700 Subject: [TR] Anti theft for LBCs Message-ID: <2338C3BF-F7AA-4438-B370-449991413CDE@cox.net> Has anyone installed a LoJack type system on their LBC? I have a small inexpensive alarm system on my TR3 since even an incompetent like myself can start and drive away my car without a key in about a minute. My daughter just bought her first "Mom car" and it came with a "Skyways" system that even allows you to tell their system to notify if your car moves from the place you put it. I was particularly wondering if these systems rely on a much more sophisticated electrical system than my Dan Masters system? John John A. Wise Glendale, AZ 1960 Triumph TR3A Commission No: TS80422L http://members.cox.net/60tr3a/ http://www.triumphowners.com/876 1977 Porsche 911S http://members.cox.net/porsche911s/ From wbeech at flash.net Sat Sep 12 14:20:35 2009 From: wbeech at flash.net (wbeech at flash.net) Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 14:20:35 -0600 Subject: [TR] [VTR] Goodnight, list? In-Reply-To: <4AAB5A29.27492.38EEDF4C@localhost> References: <4AAB007D.8080207@bradakis.com> <4AAB5A29.27492.38EEDF4C@localhost> Message-ID: So far the only way I know to get an instant response is to call Dave at TRF... Mon-Fri Noon-5:00pm ET Oh yeah, I can always get an instant response to an LBC problem from my lovely wife, but it usually involve a torch and a tow truck! Bill Beecher '58 TR-3A TS/30766 L (On the road in 2009!) "A Triumph is man's best friend, it always comes when it is called...of course, some times it is difficult to make it go" -----Original Message----- From: triumphs-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:triumphs-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Jim Muller Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 6:22 AM To: Triumphs at autox.team.net; vtr at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [TR] [VTR] Goodnight, list? >> " Hey, I have this part in my hand, it looks like {this photo >> embeded}. Anyone know which way round it goes?" >> >> And 5 minutes later or less you get a response ... >> >> "Yeah Mate, the end you have your thumb on goes on first. And BTW, >> here is a link to Club 4's video on the installation {click and view >> the video}." Whenever I have my thumb on one end of a part and could benefit from an instant response it is extremely unlikely that I would wish ever to touch my computer. I will not even mention the fact that I almost never have a computer in the garage at all. When one needs an instant response the best time to request it is long before the part comes to hand. Of course that just my own opinion. Different tools for different fools, or something like that. -- Jim Muller jimmuller at rcn.com '80 Spitfire, '70 GT6+ This list supported in part by the Vintage Triumph Register http://www.vtr.org Triumphs at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs http://www.team.net/archive From fogbro1 at comcast.net Sat Sep 12 14:38:29 2009 From: fogbro1 at comcast.net (Ed Woods) Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 16:38:29 -0400 Subject: [TR] TR250 paint question References: Message-ID: <3911425B97244756AA1F3897BE0096F6@Edscomputer> List, What finish was used on the bonnet latch mechanism that's mounted to the firewall? Car color? Black? Unpainted? Other? Thanks, Ed Woods From rengrave at verizon.net Sat Sep 12 16:21:26 2009 From: rengrave at verizon.net (Wayne) Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 18:21:26 -0400 Subject: [TR] TR250 paint question In-Reply-To: <3911425B97244756AA1F3897BE0096F6@Edscomputer> References: <3911425B97244756AA1F3897BE0096F6@Edscomputer> Message-ID: <1D14418E6A814D46AAEACD74367E63D0@RossFamily> Mine is original and it's semi-gloss black. But I have a TR6. Wayne 73TR6 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ed Woods" To: Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 4:38 PM Subject: [TR] TR250 paint question > List, > > What finish was used on the bonnet latch mechanism that's mounted to the > firewall? Car color? Black? Unpainted? Other? > > Thanks, > > Ed Woods > _______________________________________________ > > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > This list supported in part by the Vintage Triumph Register > http://www.vtr.org > > > Triumphs at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs > > > http://www.team.net/archive From frede.thomas2 at verizon.net Sat Sep 12 16:32:54 2009 From: frede.thomas2 at verizon.net (fred thomas) Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 18:32:54 -0400 Subject: [TR] Anti theft for LBCs References: <2338C3BF-F7AA-4438-B370-449991413CDE@cox.net> Message-ID: Dan installed =three=(3) anti theft devices in my 3 some years back, I have a switch to cutoff the electric fuel pump, a time delay switch to cut off the fuel pump after about one mile, and of course a switch for a 100% shut down of the entire electrical system, all work very well, if you forget to turn them on you are quickly reminded for the road "side" FT ============================================================================================================== ----- Original Message ----- From: "John A. Wise" To: "Triumph car discussion Sports" Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 12:12 PM Subject: [TR] Anti theft for LBCs > Has anyone installed a LoJack type system on their LBC? I have a > small inexpensive alarm system on my TR3 since even an incompetent > like myself can start and drive away my car without a key in about a > minute. My daughter just bought her first "Mom car" and it came with > a "Skyways" system that even allows you to tell their system to notify > if your car moves from the place you put it. > > I was particularly wondering if these systems rely on a much more > sophisticated electrical system than my Dan Masters system? > > John > > John A. Wise > Glendale, AZ > > 1960 Triumph TR3A > Commission No: TS80422L > http://members.cox.net/60tr3a/ > http://www.triumphowners.com/876 > > 1977 Porsche 911S > http://members.cox.net/porsche911s/ > _______________________________________________ > > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > This list supported in part by the Vintage Triumph Register > http://www.vtr.org > > > Triumphs at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs > > > http://www.team.net/archive From rengrave at verizon.net Sat Sep 12 16:59:25 2009 From: rengrave at verizon.net (Wayne) Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 18:59:25 -0400 Subject: [TR] Brake master cylinder and bleeding the brakes. Message-ID: <74989A9CFD0D40D3B96FC492448D4B74@RossFamily> I think I need a new brake master cylinder, I rebuilt the old one but I was not happy with the bore surface finish after I honed it. The finish was not very smooth and when I assembled the plunger and new seals, I pushed the piston in and it would just sit there. I had to bang it on the work bench to send the piston back to the front of the bore. I had plenty of brake fluid in the bore when I assembled it but it still would not return to the front of the bore on it's own. I was hoping it would move once it was flooded with fluid on the car, but......... I managed to bleed the rear brakes with gravity, however the front brakes would not bleed, I tried pumping the pedal (which didn't feel right) and the fluid in the reservoir would not go down. I think the piston is stuck at the rear of the bore in the master cylinder and therefore is blocking the fluid from the reservoir to the piston and the pipes. When I push the pedal I'm not feeling resistance. it's not a smooth travel. I thought the PDWA could be blocking the fluid, but I think it lets fluid go by no matter where the shuttle is located inside it. So, I think it's time to order a new M/C. Any suggestions where I should go? TRF, Moss, BRNW or have mine rebuilt by a pro? Wayne 73 TR6 From rengrave at verizon.net Sat Sep 12 17:10:45 2009 From: rengrave at verizon.net (Wayne) Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 19:10:45 -0400 Subject: [TR] It started Message-ID: <80D286A734E9474683C07C9B68B3D91F@RossFamily> It was a good day today, I started my TR6 after my first engine rebuild. It started up on the first try, and it runs smooth and quiet. :) I ran it for about 15 minutes at 2000-2500 RPM. Oil pressure started @ 90 psi and at the end of the 15 minutes was about 75 psi. Temp was steady just below the half way mark on the gauge. I noticed a very slow leak at the water pump front flange, but after running the engine it seamed to go away, so I won.t worry about it for now. I am running the engine with straight 30 wt "no-detergent" oil with a pint of zinc and moly additive. The engine sounded great at 2000 rpm, when I let it rev down to 1000 it seemed a little rough. I have not checked the idle timing with a stobe yet, it was static timed @ 12 degrees BTDC. Now on to the road test after I fix my brake M/C problem. Oh yeah, need to get it registered and insured. Wayne 73 TR6 From nafzigerg at yahoo.com Sat Sep 12 18:06:09 2009 From: nafzigerg at yahoo.com (Gary Nafziger) Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 17:06:09 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [TR] mild cam update (again) lol Message-ID: <535727.29294.qm@web59402.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> I've been bugging the list for some time about problems in getting my newly re-built engine running right with the S2 cam (tr-6). I finally just sent the distributor off to Jeff at Advanced Distributor and got it back yesterday, installed today. What a differance! The renewing/recurving worked wonders! Just got back from a 20 mile run and didn't wanna stop driving! I still plan on experimenting with valve adjustment and timing but for now finally my job is just driving! Thanks again to the list for all the help. I've saved many messages and still go back over them for help. thanks again! gary n. From ZinkZ10C at aol.com Sat Sep 12 18:17:31 2009 From: ZinkZ10C at aol.com (ZinkZ10C at aol.com) Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 20:17:31 EDT Subject: [TR] Anti theft for LBCs Message-ID: I've seen the basic GPS type system on commercial trucks. The transmitter is about 1" X 2" X 4," has a single wire for a antenna, battery feed wire, ignition on wire and a ground. Nothing complicated. The antenna is just a regular wire that gets tucked along the inside of the windshield. If the battery is disconnected the monitoring co stops seeing a signal then will call the phone # you have provided. I suspect there is a " If the signal ( truck ) goes X miles from placeY, call the owner. " Harold From tr6parts at charter.net Sat Sep 12 18:20:42 2009 From: tr6parts at charter.net (Al Salvatore) Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 20:20:42 -0400 Subject: [TR] Restoration Progress TR6 Message-ID: <5CE20326F4DA488CA92742236831CE2D@Alan> Well, its getting close to the finish. The transmission went in today, thanks to my friend Mikes one man install. Before I can hear the heart beat tomorrow; I have to connect the gas lines, Install the radiator, carbs and a few other things. Pictures are a photo bucket. Pages 2 & 3. Al Salvatore http://s246.photobucket.com/albums/gg107/6parts/74tr6/ From jimmuller at rcn.com Sat Sep 12 18:24:12 2009 From: jimmuller at rcn.com (Jim Muller) Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 20:24:12 -0400 Subject: [TR] Anti theft for LBCs In-Reply-To: <2338C3BF-F7AA-4438-B370-449991413CDE@cox.net> Message-ID: <4AAC036C.26745.3B840CD5@localhost> On 12 Sep 2009 at 9:12, John A. Wise asked: > Has anyone installed a LoJack type system on their LBC? I have not. In this state there is a significant insurance discount for anti-theft devices, classified into three tiers, I think. So on a previous new Caravan we had LoJack installed. It was never stolen so we couldn't say how well it worked, but it did pay for itself over the life of the car. As I recall, the premise at that time was that a recovery system should be hidden so that theives wouldn't know it was trackable. Thoughts seemed to have changed since then. For example, the presense of an alarm system is usually announced by a blinking LED on the dashboard, I suppose because the thief would probably choose another car. When we bought our next car "they" didn't recommend LoJack. For modern commodity cars the monetary value of theft is in the parts, and a quick chop-shop could remove the valuable parts and dump the trackable remains before you even notice it is gone. Notify- if-moved systems are useful because they are faster to notice the theft but a good chop-shop could still be done with the car in 20 minutes. With more valuable models stolen for their black-market resale value, e.g. high-end Benz or BMW, the thieves park it in an out-of-the-way place and wait. If no police show up in a few days, they know it is safe to take away. So the recovery process becomes a waiting game between the thieves and undercover police who will watch it until it is claimed instead of recovering it immediately. In any case, if the car is replaceable you probably don't want it back. A joyrider or parts thief could leave it in such a state that the cost to fix it will make it "totalled" anyway. With a classic LBC, the case isn't so clear. A joyrider may break it but unless it is wrecked you probably do want it back. However a joyrider isn't likely to hide it when done. There is no ready market for used LBC parts like there was, for example, for Toyota hubcaps for a while. So a chop-shop isn't a threat. And the black-market probably isn't interested because a nice LBC is probably too recognizeable. So other than the financial benefit of lower insurance bills there isn't much value in a recovery system. That's how it seems from this corner. -- Jim Muller jimmuller at rcn.com '80 Spitfire, '70 GT6+ From dlylis at gmail.com Sat Sep 12 18:31:05 2009 From: dlylis at gmail.com (dlylis at gmail.com) Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2009 00:31:05 +0000 Subject: [TR] Anti theft for LBCs In-Reply-To: References: <2338C3BF-F7AA-4438-B370-449991413CDE@cox.net> Message-ID: Although I have not felt the need for anti theft . . . I have always thought that switching the "choke" and "start" knobs would befuddle most. Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T -----Original Message----- From: "fred thomas" Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 18:32:54 To: John A. Wise; Triumph car discussionSports Subject: Re: [TR] Anti theft for LBCs Dan installed =three=(3) anti theft devices in my 3 some years back, I have a switch to cutoff the electric fuel pump, a time delay switch to cut off the fuel pump after about one mile, and of course a switch for a 100% shut down of the entire electrical system, all work very well, if you forget to turn them on you are quickly reminded for the road "side" FT ============================================================================================================== ----- Original Message ----- From: "John A. Wise" To: "Triumph car discussion Sports" Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 12:12 PM Subject: [TR] Anti theft for LBCs > Has anyone installed a LoJack type system on their LBC? I have a > small inexpensive alarm system on my TR3 since even an incompetent > like myself can start and drive away my car without a key in about a > minute. My daughter just bought her first "Mom car" and it came with > a "Skyways" system that even allows you to tell their system to notify > if your car moves from the place you put it. > > I was particularly wondering if these systems rely on a much more > sophisticated electrical system than my Dan Masters system? > > John > > John A. Wise > Glendale, AZ > > 1960 Triumph TR3A > Commission No: TS80422L > http://members.cox.net/60tr3a/ > http://www.triumphowners.com/876 > > 1977 Porsche 911S > http://members.cox.net/porsche911s/ > _______________________________________________ > > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > This list supported in part by the Vintage Triumph Register > http://www.vtr.org > > > Triumphs at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs > > > http://www.team.net/archive _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html This list supported in part by the Vintage Triumph Register http://www.vtr.org Triumphs at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs http://www.team.net/archive From 75TR6 at tr6.danielsonfamily.org Sat Sep 12 18:48:29 2009 From: 75TR6 at tr6.danielsonfamily.org (Bob Danielson) Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 20:48:29 -0400 Subject: [TR] Brake master cylinder and bleeding the brakes. In-Reply-To: <74989A9CFD0D40D3B96FC492448D4B74@RossFamily> References: <74989A9CFD0D40D3B96FC492448D4B74@RossFamily> Message-ID: I'll throw one more option out there......Ted Schumacher at http://www.tsimportedautomotive.com/ Ted's been in the TR business forever and usually beats everyone else's prices. I got rebuilt front calipers and servo from him last year and the quality of the rebuild was excellent. His site doesn't list everything he has so just give him a call. Bob Danielson 1975 TR6 CF38503U Running w/ Throttle Body Injection Toyota 5 Speed & Nissan LSD http://tr6.danielsonfamily.org -----Original Message----- From: triumphs-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:triumphs-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Wayne Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 6:59 PM To: triumphs at autox.team.net Subject: [TR] Brake master cylinder and bleeding the brakes. I think I need a new brake master cylinder, I rebuilt the old one but I was not happy with the bore surface finish after I honed it. The finish was not very smooth and when I assembled the plunger and new seals, I pushed the piston in and it would just sit there. I had to bang it on the work bench to send the piston back to the front of the bore. I had plenty of brake fluid in the bore when I assembled it but it still would not return to the front of the bore on it's own. I was hoping it would move once it was flooded with fluid on the car, but......... I managed to bleed the rear brakes with gravity, however the front brakes would not bleed, I tried pumping the pedal (which didn't feel right) and the fluid in the reservoir would not go down. I think the piston is stuck at the rear of the bore in the master cylinder and therefore is blocking the fluid from the reservoir to the piston and the pipes. When I push the pedal I'm not feeling resistance. it's not a smooth travel. I thought the PDWA could be blocking the fluid, but I think it lets fluid go by no matter where the shuttle is located inside it. So, I think it's time to order a new M/C. Any suggestions where I should go? TRF, Moss, BRNW or have mine rebuilt by a pro? Wayne 73 TR6 This list supported in part by the Vintage Triumph Register http://www.vtr.org Triumphs at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs http://www.team.net/archive From dorpaul at bellsouth.net Sat Sep 12 21:48:42 2009 From: dorpaul at bellsouth.net (dorpaul) Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 23:48:42 -0400 Subject: [TR] Brake master cylinder and bleeding the brakes. References: <74989A9CFD0D40D3B96FC492448D4B74@RossFamily> Message-ID: Wayne... Wouldn't a MC that had been rebuilt w/ the seal accidentilly turned backwards also cause crazy behavior with the piston (like you describe). But then again, what do I know about brakes? Paul ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wayne" To: Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 6:59 PM Subject: [TR] Brake master cylinder and bleeding the brakes. >I think I need a new brake master cylinder, I rebuilt the old one but I was > not happy with the > bore surface finish after I honed it. The finish was not very smooth and > when > I assembled > the plunger and new seals, I pushed the piston in and it would just sit > there. > I had to bang it on the work bench to send the piston back to the front of > the > bore. > I had plenty of brake fluid in the bore when I assembled it but it still > would > not return > to the front of the bore on it's own. > I was hoping it would move once it was flooded with fluid on the car, > but......... > > I managed to bleed the rear brakes with gravity, however the front brakes > would not bleed, > I tried pumping the pedal (which didn't feel right) and the fluid in the > reservoir would not > go down. > > I think the piston is stuck at the rear of the bore in the master cylinder > and > therefore is blocking > the fluid from the reservoir to the piston and the pipes. When I push the > pedal I'm not feeling > resistance. it's not a smooth travel. > > I thought the PDWA could be blocking the fluid, but I think it lets fluid > go > by no matter where > the shuttle is located inside it. > > So, I think it's time to order a new M/C. > Any suggestions where I should go? TRF, Moss, BRNW or have mine rebuilt by > a > pro? > > Wayne > 73 TR6 > _______________________________________________ > > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > This list supported in part by the Vintage Triumph Register > http://www.vtr.org > > > Triumphs at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs > > > http://www.team.net/archive From rengrave at verizon.net Sun Sep 13 08:36:39 2009 From: rengrave at verizon.net (Wayne) Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2009 10:36:39 -0400 Subject: [TR] Brake master cylinder and bleeding the brakes. In-Reply-To: References: <74989A9CFD0D40D3B96FC492448D4B74@RossFamily> Message-ID: <396EE6AA019244489EC331183B38D758@RossFamily> I'm 99% sure that I have the seal installed correctly. My problem is that the fluid will not "gravity bleed" like the rear brakes did. Seal does not come into play here, but if the piston is stuck to the rear of the bore, this cut off the port from the resevior and will not let the fluid pass through to the lines. I plan to remove the MC and see if the piston is stuck. Would it make sense to try to polish the bore to a mirror finish? What would I use to achieve this finish? Or am I wasting my time, and I should just spend the cash and get a new girling MC? Wayne 73 TR6 ----- Original Message ----- From: "dorpaul" To: "Wayne" ; Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 11:48 PM Subject: Re: [TR] Brake master cylinder and bleeding the brakes. > Wayne... > Wouldn't a MC that had been rebuilt w/ the seal accidentilly turned > backwards also cause crazy behavior with the piston (like you describe). > But then again, what do I know about brakes? > Paul > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Wayne" > To: > Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 6:59 PM > Subject: [TR] Brake master cylinder and bleeding the brakes. > > >>I think I need a new brake master cylinder, I rebuilt the old one but I >>was >> not happy with the >> bore surface finish after I honed it. The finish was not very smooth and >> when >> I assembled >> the plunger and new seals, I pushed the piston in and it would just sit >> there. >> I had to bang it on the work bench to send the piston back to the front >> of the >> bore. >> I had plenty of brake fluid in the bore when I assembled it but it still >> would >> not return >> to the front of the bore on it's own. >> I was hoping it would move once it was flooded with fluid on the car, >> but......... >> >> I managed to bleed the rear brakes with gravity, however the front brakes >> would not bleed, >> I tried pumping the pedal (which didn't feel right) and the fluid in the >> reservoir would not >> go down. >> >> I think the piston is stuck at the rear of the bore in the master >> cylinder and >> therefore is blocking >> the fluid from the reservoir to the piston and the pipes. When I push the >> pedal I'm not feeling >> resistance. it's not a smooth travel. >> >> I thought the PDWA could be blocking the fluid, but I think it lets fluid >> go >> by no matter where >> the shuttle is located inside it. >> >> So, I think it's time to order a new M/C. >> Any suggestions where I should go? TRF, Moss, BRNW or have mine rebuilt >> by a >> pro? >> >> Wayne >> 73 TR6 >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> This list supported in part by the Vintage Triumph Register >> http://www.vtr.org >> >> >> Triumphs at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs >> >> >> http://www.team.net/archive From tomislav.marincic at earthlink.net Sun Sep 13 08:58:40 2009 From: tomislav.marincic at earthlink.net (Tomislav Marincic) Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2009 10:58:40 -0400 Subject: [TR] 4 speed tranny tail piece Message-ID: <380-220099013145840859@earthlink.net> Chuck, I have a good usable tailpiece and a mainshaft with no known flaws. It's been a little while since I sorted my tranny, but ISTR there were 2 or 3 different gearsets and 2 layshafts during the life of the TR6 tranny. Are you sure the non-OD mainshafts are all the same? You can have them for the cost of shipping, but it won't be cheap, I'm in Virginia (20132) and the shaft is heavy. I think I block gmail for spam, so please call my cell at 540.687.1966 or post briefly to the TR list if you want them. I'm on the road Monday-Thursday this week, but could probably get to the PO on Friday. Cheers, Tom www.triumphowners.com/735 CC55483L, now overdrive Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 19:06:14 -0700 From: Chuck Arnold Subject: [TR] 4 speed tranny tail piece To: Friends , 6-PACK Editor , TR list Message-ID: <8cbd782d0909101906y364e425dxa581602614b5085 at mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Does anybody have a tail peice left over from converting a 4 speed TR4-6 tranny to overdrive? Could use one,and though I got one last year, I could use the 4 speed main shaft also. IF so, let me know your price. I am in Seattle for shipping cost purposes [zip 98109] Thanks -- Chuck Arnold From rengrave at verizon.net Sun Sep 13 09:41:01 2009 From: rengrave at verizon.net (Wayne) Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2009 11:41:01 -0400 Subject: [TR] URO Brake MC Message-ID: I was shopping for a new brake MC for the TR6 and found a good deal on "URO" brand $120. Is URO a good brand or should I buy Girling from BPNW for $180? Wayne 73 TR6 From tswhitez123 at hotmail.com Sun Sep 13 11:41:36 2009 From: tswhitez123 at hotmail.com (tom white) Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2009 17:41:36 +0000 Subject: [TR] Anti theft for LBCs In-Reply-To: References: <2338C3BF-F7AA-4438-B370-449991413CDE@cox.net> Message-ID: I have a battery cut off located on my trunk mounted battery, a fuel cut off switch, a hidden ignition cut off switch, and I can reach under the dash and pull the wire for the fuel pump with ease. So when I park I disconnect the battery, lock the trunk, shut off the fuel and the ignition. Best regards, Tom _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail: Free, trusted and rich email service. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/171222984/direct/01/ From tswhitez123 at hotmail.com Sun Sep 13 11:57:55 2009 From: tswhitez123 at hotmail.com (tom white) Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2009 17:57:55 +0000 Subject: [TR] Anti theft for LBCs In-Reply-To: <4AAC036C.26745.3B840CD5@localhost> References: <2338C3BF-F7AA-4438-B370-449991413CDE@cox.net> <4AAC036C.26745.3B840CD5@localhost> Message-ID: One of my friends son's had a highly modified and finely finished Camaro. It was "stolen" from the parking lot of a repair shop and moved 30 miles into a steel building that prevented the Lojack from transmitting. The thieves moved the car out of the building long enough to repark it inside. Lojack made a connection and the car was recovered before the could chop it. Best regards, Tom _________________________________________________________________ Bing brings you health info from trusted sources. http://www.bing.com/search?q=pet+allergy&form=MHEINA&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TXT_MH EINA_Health_Health_PetAllergy_1x1 From fishplate at charter.net Sun Sep 13 12:21:02 2009 From: fishplate at charter.net (Jeff Scarbrough) Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2009 14:21:02 -0400 Subject: [TR] Brake master cylinder and bleeding the brakes. In-Reply-To: <396EE6AA019244489EC331183B38D758@RossFamily> References: <74989A9CFD0D40D3B96FC492448D4B74@RossFamily> <396EE6AA019244489EC331183B38D758@RossFamily> Message-ID: At 10:36 AM 9/13/2009, Wayne wrote: >Or am I wasting my time, and I should just spend the cash and get a >new girling MC? If you're car won't go, that's one thing. If it won't stop, that's quite another thing. I wouldn't take risks with the brakes. Jeff Scarbrough 75 TR6 x 1, 76 1500 x 2, 78 1500 x 1, 80 1500 x 0.5 http://www.fishplate.org/vehicles/ Corrosion Acres, Georgia #354 From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Sun Sep 13 14:54:26 2009 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2009 13:54:26 -0700 Subject: [TR] Anti theft for LBCs In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20090913205425457.FZRJ11918@cdptpa-omta04.mail.rr.com> > I have a battery cut off located on my trunk mounted battery, > a fuel cut off > switch, a hidden ignition cut off switch, and I can reach > under the dash and > pull the wire for the fuel pump with ease. So when I park I > disconnect the > battery, lock the trunk, shut off the fuel and the ignition. Thanks, Tom. Now if I get the urge to 'borrow' your car (it sounds like a hoot to drive!), I'll know just how to go about it. I'm kidding of course. What I really wanted to say is that if a serious thief wants your car; he is just going to back up a flatbed and load it up. Kill switches and whatnot only defeat joy riders. Randall From mark at bradakis.com Sun Sep 13 14:58:01 2009 From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J Bradakis) Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2009 14:58:01 -0600 (MDT) Subject: [TR] Whining time, Team.Net updates Message-ID: <20090913205801.773432E05F@bradakis.com> Yes, I know that as the fellow behind the curtain who keeps Team.Net on the air, I do my share of whining. But the whining here is coming from one of the disks on the server, a bearing ready to fail in a few days, a couple of weeks, maybe not until 2010. Who knows? Rather than risk a sudden failure, it would be prudent to consider getting new hardware. And that is where you come in. I didn't have an official fund drive this year, though donations have come in at random times during the year. It seems to be time for those of you who have not recently contributed to step up and assist in keeping Team.Net on the air. If you have a few dollars to spare and desire to support this endeavor, check out the web page http://www.team.net/donate.html I, and thousands of folks around the planet would appreciate it. Gee, I haven't taken an actual count of all subscribers lately, I ought to do a headcount. On a related note, I have been doing a few things, like moving a few more lists from majordomo to mailman. Back when I started doing this about 20 years ago majordomo was the hot ticket. It is a bit outdated now, mailman is much more web friendly, hopefully much easier for you folks to use. Of course, there are those who still try to use majordomo to manage their mailman subscriptions, not much I can do about that! One thing I did was change the judson list, which was intended for discussion of classic Judson superchargers to superchargers at autox.team.net, opening it up for folks to discuss other brands. Feel free to go to the mailman page, http://www.team.net/mailman/listinfo to sign up if you so desire. Actually I had hoped more folks would sign up for the-local list, a place for random discussion about all sorts of stuff. Tell a joke, review a movie, report the antics of your favorite public idiot, lament the last loss of your team, whatever. If there is a list you'd like to see, chances are I'd set one up, no problem. But for now, consider this an Official Team.Net fund drive, and assist as you can: http://www.team.net/donate.html Thanks! mjb. From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Sun Sep 13 15:03:42 2009 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2009 14:03:42 -0700 Subject: [TR] Brake master cylinder and bleeding the brakes. In-Reply-To: <396EE6AA019244489EC331183B38D758@RossFamily> Message-ID: <20090913210341576.LKQB5638@cdptpa-omta01.mail.rr.com> > Would it make sense to try to polish the bore to a mirror finish? Worth a try, IMO. You have to get it so the piston will return reliably under just spring pressure. Might also be worth checking or replacing the spring. The springs in the single-circuit masters have been known to weaken or even break, I assume the dual circuit masters can have the same problem. > What would I use to achieve this finish? One method: Piece of hardwood dowel from Home Depot, slightly smaller than the bore. Cut a slit in the end and stick a piece of fine abrasive cloth in the split. A few drops of water or oil might help. Keep polishing the bore with that, as the abrasive wears out. If that doesn't get it smooth enough, repeat the process with strips of even finer sandpaper. Randall From ahwahnee18 at gmail.com Sun Sep 13 18:21:27 2009 From: ahwahnee18 at gmail.com (Geo Hahn) Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2009 17:21:27 -0700 Subject: [TR] TR250 paint question In-Reply-To: <1D14418E6A814D46AAEACD74367E63D0@RossFamily> References: <3911425B97244756AA1F3897BE0096F6@Edscomputer> <1D14418E6A814D46AAEACD74367E63D0@RossFamily> Message-ID: <7bb181af0909131721q1f680f5bofefa812692b06cf0@mail.gmail.com> Mine is body color (and original) but that is on a TR4. From jfreynolds_99 at yahoo.com Mon Sep 14 10:10:37 2009 From: jfreynolds_99 at yahoo.com (John Reynolds) Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 09:10:37 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [TR] Needed TR3A Oil Pan Message-ID: <853136.6192.qm@web30706.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Listers, I am looking to buy a good TR3A oil pan. I would like one that has not been dented, holed or cracked. I already have one. Please contact me off list. Regards, John Reynolds Houston, Texas From supertr6 at earthlink.net Mon Sep 14 14:01:36 2009 From: supertr6 at earthlink.net (Joe Burlein) Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 16:01:36 -0400 Subject: [TR] [VTR] Goodnight, list? In-Reply-To: References: <4AAB007D.8080207@bradakis.com> <4AAB5A29.27492.38EEDF4C@localhost> Message-ID: <4AAEA120.10508@earthlink.net> Well I've been using FerrariChat for a few years now and I can usually get a response to a question within an hour. Within a couple of days I can have more info than I need. Also, there are "Stickies" for the usual questions about parts, procedures etc. (Well, except the timing belt question which comes up about every six months.) I don't know how many times I've posted pictures of holes with nothing attached, spacers found in the bottom of a door, strange hoses that go no where, (etc) and have an answer to help fix or correct DPO problems very quickly. I'd love to have that for the TR6 and would gladly be a subscriber for a modern BBS. M2C, Joe wbeech at flash.net wrote: > So far the only way I know to get an instant response is to call Dave at > TRF... Mon-Fri Noon-5:00pm ET > > Oh yeah, I can always get an instant response to an LBC problem from my > lovely wife, but it usually involve a torch and a tow truck! > > Bill Beecher > '58 TR-3A TS/30766 L (On the road in 2009!) > "A Triumph is man's best friend, it always comes when it is called...of > course, some times it is difficult to make it go" > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: triumphs-bounces at autox.team.net > [mailto:triumphs-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Jim Muller > Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 6:22 AM > To: Triumphs at autox.team.net; vtr at autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [TR] [VTR] Goodnight, list? > > >>> " Hey, I have this part in my hand, it looks like {this photo >>> embeded}. Anyone know which way round it goes?" >>> >>> And 5 minutes later or less you get a response ... >>> >>> "Yeah Mate, the end you have your thumb on goes on first. And BTW, >>> here is a link to Club 4's video on the installation {click and view >>> the video}." >>> > > Whenever I have my thumb on one end of a part and could benefit from an > instant response it is extremely unlikely that I would wish ever to touch my > computer. I will not even mention the fact that I almost never have a > computer in the garage at all. When one needs an instant response the best > time to request it is long before the part comes to hand. > > Of course that just my own opinion. Different tools for different fools, or > something like that. From tdskip at yahoo.com Mon Sep 14 18:16:18 2009 From: tdskip at yahoo.com (Tom Deutsch) Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 17:16:18 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [TR] TR4a solid axle mounting point - need to find one. Message-ID: <494916.7372.qm@web55608.mail.re4.yahoo.com> Hi guys - hope everyone is doing well. So having learn a ton the hard way, and through the efforts of a number of the folks on the list here (Randall, Bob, Geo and many others) I think I've learned enough to get the TR4a back on the road over the winter. I do have one blocking issue however, which is that my drivers side rear mounting point where the lever link arm goes is oval shaped and it makes for some funky (fun, but not too safe) unidirectional oversteer. Whee.... Any chance someone has a drivers side mounting point for the rear suspension, #59 in the Moss diagram below, in good shape? [img]http://mossmotors.com/Graphics/Products/Schematics/TRI-031.gif[/img] More than happy to pay a fair price. Thanks! From rengrave at verizon.net Mon Sep 14 18:51:39 2009 From: rengrave at verizon.net (Wayne) Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 20:51:39 -0400 Subject: [TR] Cup Holder and Interior Lighting Message-ID: I was wondering what others are doing for additional interior lighting in their cars. I only have one bulb under the dash on the TR6 and I noticed that TRF offers a courtesy lamp P/N BHA5138. http://www.zeni.net/trf/TR6-250GC/index.php?menu=A&page=151 This lamp mounts on a metal plinth on the prop tunnel behind the seats or can be mounted on the rear shelf. Does anyone have pictures of what this looks like in the car? Does anyone have additional bulbs under the dash. Also what are people using for cup holders, I mean these days cup holders are very important especially to New Englanders who "run on Dunkin". Wayne 73 TR6 From dconnitt at fuse.net Mon Sep 14 19:24:53 2009 From: dconnitt at fuse.net (Dave Connitt) Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 21:24:53 -0400 Subject: [TR] Clutch part source Message-ID: Hello everyone, I have one more thing to bolt on my TR4A chassis before I put the tub back on and that is the clutch slave. Problem is, I cant' find the little pin and spring thingy that holds the clutch rod into the bell crank on the clutch shaft. Since the car was in "kit form" when I bought it, there may have very likely never been one there. I just checked with Moss and both parts are N/A. Has anyone bought on recently or is there a suggested substitute? Thanks, Dave Connitt http://home.fuse.net/davestr4a I just installed a RevingtonTR stainless exhaust system if you want to check that out. Very nice system.. From dorpaul at bellsouth.net Mon Sep 14 19:30:16 2009 From: dorpaul at bellsouth.net (dorpaul) Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 21:30:16 -0400 Subject: [TR] Brake ma now (Triumph training?) References: <74989A9CFD0D40D3B96FC492448D4B74@RossFamily> <4AAC774B.70004@comcast.net> Message-ID: Michael, Yes, this summer has had me running and fixing lawnmowers et al. (Triumph training?) Also, in the interest of saving on shipping costs, I'd repair one system up until I'd have to order something, write it down, then just move on to another system. It was the brakes, then the steering, then body work, then ...I'd order a dozen parts at once. Now, two years later I'm wondering why did I need a particular part I just ordered. FT warned me to stick with just one system until completion, but I had to learn the hard way. Glad to know that I'm not the only gradual completer! I couldn't fault the list for thinking, "well, we tried to caution him about those brake seals...too bad." Thanks, Paul Dorsey 60 TR3 TS71something ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Lang" To: "dorpaul" Sent: Sunday, September 13, 2009 12:38 AM Subject: Re: [TR] Brake master cylinder and bleeding the brakes. > Hi Paul, > > I just realized that I hadn't seen anything posted from you on the list > lately. How's the project going? I finally got mine road worthy in > August and have been using it for my daily 100 mile round trip, country > road, commute ever since. It's been a lot of fun. > > It's not done yet. The interior will have to wait until this winter. > Definitely worth the 7 years worth of gradual restoration that it has > taken! > > Mike From acekraut11 at aol.com Mon Sep 14 19:45:38 2009 From: acekraut11 at aol.com (acekraut11 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 21:45:38 -0400 Subject: [TR] Cup Holder and Interior Lighting In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8CC03BD5BBAC7D1-2BF8-A448@webmail-m098.sysops.aol.com> Sorry, no pics.? I could snap one maybe tomorrow if someone doesnt have one handy.? No additional bulbs under the dash, but I did mount a second light in the trunk on the opposite side of the original.? No cupholder.? I just use a bottle with a screw cap on top and lay it down next to the e-brake handle. -----Original Message----- From: Wayne To: triumphs at autox.team.net Sent: Mon, Sep 14, 2009 8:51 pm Subject: [TR] Cup Holder and Interior Lighting I was wondering what others are doing for additional interior lighting in their cars. I only have one bulb under the dash on the TR6 and I noticed that TRF offers a courtesy lamp P/N BHA5138. http://www.zeni.net/trf/TR6-250GC/index.php?menu=A&page=151 This lamp mounts on a metal plinth on the prop tunnel behind the seats or can be mounted on the rear shelf. Does anyone have pictures of what this looks like in the car? Does anyone have additional bulbs under the dash. Also what are people using for cup holders, I mean these days cup holders are very important especially to New Englanders who "run on Dunkin". Wayne 73 TR6 This list supported in part by the Vintage Triumph Register http://www.vtr.org Triumphs at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs http://www.team.net/archive From pdqtr6 at suscom-maine.net Mon Sep 14 20:38:15 2009 From: pdqtr6 at suscom-maine.net (Tom Walling & Wendy Rose) Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 22:38:15 -0400 Subject: [TR] Cup Holder and Interior Lighting In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I use this: http://www.amazon.com/Bell-CO51-Octopus-Cup-Holder/dp/B000FW2MC2 It usually lives on the floor, but can also be placed on the passenger seat. It holds all sizes of cups and smaller bottles, and can even keep loose change in place. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wayne" To: Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 8:51 PM Subject: [TR] Cup Holder and Interior Lighting >I was wondering what others are doing for additional interior lighting in > their cars. > I only have one bulb under the dash on the TR6 and I noticed that TRF > offers a > courtesy lamp P/N BHA5138. > > http://www.zeni.net/trf/TR6-250GC/index.php?menu=A&page=151 > > This lamp mounts on a metal plinth on the prop tunnel behind the seats or > can > be mounted on the rear shelf. > > Does anyone have pictures of what this looks like in the car? > > Does anyone have additional bulbs under the dash. > > Also what are people using for cup holders, I mean these days cup holders > are > very important especially to New Englanders > who "run on Dunkin". > > Wayne > 73 TR6 > _______________________________________________ > > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > This list supported in part by the Vintage Triumph Register > http://www.vtr.org > > > Triumphs at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs > > > http://www.team.net/archive From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Mon Sep 14 21:28:27 2009 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 20:28:27 -0700 Subject: [TR] Clutch part source In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20090915032827923.EGCT14103@cdptpa-omta02.mail.rr.com> > Problem is, I cant' find the > little pin and > spring thingy that holds the clutch rod into the bell crank > on the clutch > shaft. I think the pin is the same as the TR3A, which seems to be available from TRF, P/N 57195, $5.95. However, my TR4A SPC only shows the pin, spring & clevis as an assembly (P/N 57193 which is also shown for $30). They don't list the spring separately, but it's a very non-critical item so I just found something close in the parts bin and cut it to fit. All it does is help keep the joint from rattling. Randall From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Mon Sep 14 21:39:07 2009 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 20:39:07 -0700 Subject: [TR] TR4a solid axle mounting point - need to find one. In-Reply-To: <494916.7372.qm@web55608.mail.re4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20090915033907642.BYDI11918@cdptpa-omta04.mail.rr.com> > I do have one blocking issue however, which is that my > drivers side rear > mounting point where the lever link arm goes is oval shaped Just a thought, Tom, you could probably have a local welding shop weld up the hole and then re-drill it. Or, drill/ream it oversize and install a sleeve. Most hobby shops carry thin-wall tubing that can be cut to length for a sleeve. Randall From adcronin at ameritech.net Tue Sep 15 07:39:55 2009 From: adcronin at ameritech.net (A Daniel Cronin) Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 06:39:55 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [TR] TR4a solid axle mounting point - need to find one. In-Reply-To: <494916.7372.qm@web55608.mail.re4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <702462.61788.qm@web81303.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Could you (or a machine shop) weld in the oval areas and re-drill to the proper dim.? Regards, Dan Cronin --- On Mon, 9/14/09, Tom Deutsch wrote: From: Tom Deutsch Subject: [TR] TR4a solid axle mounting point - need to find one. To: triumphs at autox.team.net Date: Monday, September 14, 2009, 8:16 PM Hi guys - hope everyone is doing well. So having learn a ton the hard way, and through the efforts of a number of the folks on the list here (Randall, Bob, Geo and many others) I think I've learned enough to get the TR4a back on the road over the winter. I do have one blocking issue however, which is that my drivers side rear mounting point where the lever link arm goes is oval shaped and it makes for some funky (fun, but not too safe) unidirectional oversteer. Whee.... Any chance someone has a drivers side mounting point for the rear suspension, #59 in the Moss diagram below, in good shape? [img]http://mossmotors.com/Graphics/Products/Schematics/TRI-031.gif[/img] More than happy to pay a fair price. Thanks! This list supported in part by the Vintage Triumph Register http://www.vtr.org Triumphs at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs http://www.team.net/archive From akgraves at cox.net Tue Sep 15 09:43:57 2009 From: akgraves at cox.net (akgraves at cox.net) Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 11:43:57 -0400 Subject: [TR] Burned Exhaust Valve Message-ID: <20090915114357.6FQ52.183110.imail@eastrmwml40> I wrote a few weeks ago after replacing piston rings and rod bearings. That repair seems to be good - so far. This past weekend I drove 100 miles to a car show and it seemed to run okay but the fuel economy was poor. Then I discovered that my oil level was very low. I topped up and checked it again on my return (100 miles) and discovered that I had burned 2 quarts! It did not leak out. A compression test showed 0 lbs on cylinder 6. That's where the oil went. #6 plug was caked with oil and soot as well. Thinking I had a head gasket failure or new piston ring installation errors I removed the head. The gasket looked good, nothing obvious, and the cylinder walls looked good. Thinking that the head must not have been torqued properly, I began cleaning my tools and shop for the next day. Then I noticed a gaping hole in the #6 exhaust valve. I removed it and there is a 5/16'' chunk missing! My question is what could have caused that? During the previous work I removed the head and inspected and cleaned all valves and lapped them into their seats. They looked good then. I plan to drive to Triumphest and need to know what happened so that it doesn't happen again. Thanks, Art Graves Tulsa, OK 1976 Triumph TR6 From jimmuller at rcn.com Tue Sep 15 10:44:26 2009 From: jimmuller at rcn.com (Jim Muller) Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 12:44:26 -0400 Subject: [TR] Burned Exhaust Valve In-Reply-To: <20090915114357.6FQ52.183110.imail@eastrmwml40> Message-ID: <4AAF8C2A.30439.49522856@localhost> On 15 Sep 2009 at 11:43, akgraves at cox.net wrote: > Then I noticed a gaping hole in the #6 exhaust valve... > My question is what could have caused that? I'm sure one of our mashinist experts will answer, and maybe contradict me (in which case I'll learn something). Several thoughts come to mind. A burned exhaust valve is typically caused by it being set too tight. Of course, with a pushrod engine when you remove and replace the head the valves need total re- adjustment. Then when (if) you re-torque it that tightens them up by pulling the head down onto the block, so you need to to adjust them again. Even so, 100 miles is a short distance to burn a valve unless it was damaged to begin with. Also too early ignition timing and too low fool octane will make the engine internals run hotter and exaggerate the burning. Even so, that would not necessarily cause the loss of so much oil in only 100 miles unless it was being pulled up past the rings and not being blown or scavenged back down. A more likely cause would be a badly worn valve guide, which could similarly have contributed to the valve not closing against it seat properly. As I recall, a typical sign of worn valve guides is that after you sit at idle for a few minutes such as for a stoplight and then pull away, the exhaust blows a lot of oil smoke (which is blue-ish), though it does not otherwise seem to burn oil excessively. While you have the head off and are dealing with the valve, check (or have a good machine shop) check the guide and seat too. Might as well check all of them! -- Jim Muller jimmuller at rcn.com '80 Spitfire, '70 GT6+ From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Tue Sep 15 10:50:21 2009 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 09:50:21 -0700 Subject: [TR] Burned Exhaust Valve In-Reply-To: <20090915114357.6FQ52.183110.imail@eastrmwml40> Message-ID: <20090915165022622.QKBR6569@cdptpa-omta01.mail.rr.com> > Then I noticed a gaping > hole in the #6 > exhaust valve. I removed it and there is a 5/16'' chunk > missing! My question > is what could have caused that? Was it burned away, or broken away? Burned would indicate it wasn't seating properly for some reason, like maybe a weak spring or clearances too tight. Very lean mixtures can also sometimes cause exhaust valves to burn (by sending EGT way high). But that would not explain the oil consumption. I think you need to keep looking for how oil was getting into #6. My guess would be a broken piston. http://tinyurl.com/lcmsza But check the intake valve for burned oil caked behind the head. Randall From spitlist at cox.net Tue Sep 15 11:20:02 2009 From: spitlist at cox.net (Joe Curry) Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 10:20:02 -0700 Subject: [TR] Burned Exhaust Valve In-Reply-To: <20090915114357.6FQ52.183110.imail@eastrmwml40> References: <20090915114357.6FQ52.183110.imail@eastrmwml40> Message-ID: If I understand this, you burned 2 quarts of oil in 100 miles. If that is correct, I am surprised you did not get pulled over by the police for pollution. Two quarts of oil in 100 miles would have left a smoke screen large enough to hide a battleship. If you did not see such a smoke trail, I would suspect that you need to look for another place the oil went. Cheers, Joe -----Original Message----- From: triumphs-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:triumphs-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of akgraves at cox.net Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 8:44 AM To: triumphs at autox.team.net Subject: [TR] Burned Exhaust Valve I wrote a few weeks ago after replacing piston rings and rod bearings. That repair seems to be good - so far. This past weekend I drove 100 miles to a car show and it seemed to run okay but the fuel economy was poor. Then I discovered that my oil level was very low. I topped up and checked it again on my return (100 miles) and discovered that I had burned 2 quarts! It did not leak out. A compression test showed 0 lbs on cylinder 6. That's where the oil went. #6 plug was caked with oil and soot as well. Thinking I had a head gasket failure or new piston ring installation errors I removed the head. The gasket looked good, nothing obvious, and the cylinder walls looked good. Thinking that the head must not have been torqued properly, I began cleaning my tools and shop for the next day. Then I noticed a gaping hole in the #6 exhaust valve. I removed it and there is a 5/16'' chunk missing! My question is what could have caused that? During the previous work I removed the head and inspected and cleaned all valves and lapped them into their seats. They looked good then. I plan to drive to Triumphest and need to know what happened so that it doesn't happen again. Thanks, Art Graves Tulsa, OK 1976 Triumph TR6 This list supported in part by the Vintage Triumph Register http://www.vtr.org Triumphs at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs http://www.team.net/archive From arakelianp at mossmotors.com Tue Sep 15 12:04:20 2009 From: arakelianp at mossmotors.com (Arakelian, Peter) Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 11:04:20 -0700 Subject: [TR] Cup Holder and Interior Lighting Message-ID: <42329DF34840DB4E9785C8DF24C8A97F10478911@kb1.mossmotors.com> Interior lighting: That light that fits onto the back of the trans tunnel is stock, but I have seen friends who have mounted it between the sunvisors on the windshield frame. Fits perfectly and lights the interior very well. Cup holder: I have yet to see one better than the one offered by Moss, 100-785. It has a large diameter with tall sides. The bottom tucks under the edge of the carpet for the width of the holder. I have run it in my TR6 for years. Works GREAT! No spills, no worries. Go to the web site to see a not very good picture. If you are coming to Triumphest, I'll show it to you. Peter Arakelian - 1971 TR6 From akgraves at cox.net Tue Sep 15 15:38:33 2009 From: akgraves at cox.net (akgraves at cox.net) Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 17:38:33 -0400 Subject: [TR] Burned Exhaust Valve In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20090915173833.3FF6U.187208.imail@eastrmwml45> Thanks for your responses. Joe, there was some smoke reported when I accelerated. Jim, I think the valve guide is okay. With the springs removed, I can put my finger over the top of the guide, pull the valve down and the suction will pull the valve back up. This is consistent on all valves. Randall, I will leak test the cylinders to hopefully determine where oil is coming from. To do this I will pour a small amount of oil (Marvel Mystery) onto the top of pistons #5 and #6. I'll test the others this way also. Maybe that will tell me something. The oil loss and burned valve are probably related. I'll post an update. Art Graves Tulsa, OK 1976 Triumph TR6 > Thinking that the head must not have been torqued properly, I began cleaning > my tools and shop for the next day. Then I noticed a gaping hole in the #6 > exhaust valve. I removed it and there is a 5/16'' chunk missing! My > question > is what could have caused that? From auprichard at comcast.net Tue Sep 15 16:14:37 2009 From: auprichard at comcast.net (Andrew Uprichard) Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 18:14:37 -0400 Subject: [TR] Oil Pressure In-Reply-To: <20090915173833.3FF6U.187208.imail@eastrmwml45> References: <20090915173833.3FF6U.187208.imail@eastrmwml45> Message-ID: List: Before I give away my numbers, what range (idle to full acceleration) should one aim for with oil pressure on a TR3? Andrew Uprichard From dlylis at gmail.com Tue Sep 15 17:34:08 2009 From: dlylis at gmail.com (dlylis at gmail.com) Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 23:34:08 +0000 Subject: [TR] Oil Pressure Message-ID: What is this? You show me yours and I'll show you mine? ------Original Message------ From: Andrew Uprichard Sender: triumphs-bounces at autox.team.net To: triumphs at autox.team.net Subject: [TR] Oil Pressure Sent: Sep 15, 2009 6:14 PM List: Before I give away my numbers, what range (idle to full acceleration) should one aim for with oil pressure on a TR3? Andrew Uprichard This list supported in part by the Vintage Triumph Register http://www.vtr.org Triumphs at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs http://www.team.net/archive Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T From thenicholls at verizon.net Tue Sep 15 20:05:52 2009 From: thenicholls at verizon.net (thenicholls at verizon.net) Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 21:05:52 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [TR] Oil Pressure Message-ID: <1471988257.2040744.1253066752435.JavaMail.root@vms124.mailsrvcs.net> Sounds like "The Price Is Right"? On Sep 15, 2009, dlylis at gmail.com wrote: What is this? You show me yours and I'll show you mine? ------Original Message------ From: Andrew Uprichard Sender: triumphs-bounces at autox.team.net To: triumphs at autox.team.net Subject: [TR] Oil Pressure Sent: Sep 15, 2009 6:14 PM List: Before I give away my numbers, what range (idle to full acceleration) should one aim for with oil pressure on a TR3? Andrew Uprichard This list supported in part by the Vintage Triumph Register http://www.vtr.org Triumphs at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs http://www.team.net/archive Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T This list supported in part by the Vintage Triumph Register http://www.vtr.org Triumphs at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs http://www.team.net/archive From mark at bradakis.com Tue Sep 15 20:08:36 2009 From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J Bradakis) Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 20:08:36 -0600 Subject: [TR] Oil Pressure In-Reply-To: References: <20090915173833.3FF6U.187208.imail@eastrmwml45> Message-ID: <4AB048A4.70205@bradakis.com> > Before I give away my numbers, what range (idle to full acceleration) should one aim > for with oil pressure on a TR3? Basic rule of thumb for minimum oil pressure is 10 psi for every 1,000 rpm. mjb. From fishplate at charter.net Tue Sep 15 20:26:48 2009 From: fishplate at charter.net (Jeff Scarbrough) Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 22:26:48 -0400 Subject: [TR] Tubes? Message-ID: OK, I've searched until my head is spinning. I've got an idea of what size tire I want for stock rims, which are 5.5J x 15, but the Redlines on there (20+ years old!) have tubes. As I understand it, wheels without a safety bead need tubes to make sure you don't have an air-out in a sharp corner. Do stock TR6 wheels have a safety bead? If not, are you running tubes in your tires? I also discovered some tubeless tires will void the warranty by running tubes... *sigh* From tony at tonydrews.com Tue Sep 15 20:28:04 2009 From: tony at tonydrews.com (Tony Drews) Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 21:28:04 -0500 Subject: [TR] Oil Pressure In-Reply-To: References: <20090915173833.3FF6U.187208.imail@eastrmwml45> Message-ID: <20090916022823.B7C48187649@autox.team.net> I like to see 30 psi at idle and 60+ psi from about 3000 RPM on up. This is with 20w50 oil, and may be a bit lower when hot. - Tony Drews At 05:14 PM 9/15/2009, Andrew Uprichard wrote: >List: > >Before I give away my numbers, what range (idle to full acceleration) should >one aim for with oil pressure on a TR3? > >Andrew Uprichard >_______________________________________________ > >Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > >This list supported in part by the Vintage Triumph Register >http://www.vtr.org > > >Triumphs at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs > > >http://www.team.net/archive From dorpaul at bellsouth.net Tue Sep 15 20:43:06 2009 From: dorpaul at bellsouth.net (dorpaul) Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 22:43:06 -0400 Subject: [TR] Oil Pressure References: <20090916000129.39CD01878A1@autox.team.net> Message-ID: <137D5AAE510B4DA19B746361CE3ADC11@YOUR7F50EBAA71> Andrew and others; Isn't the oil pressure reading dependant on how one sets a valve back at the oil filter? If that's so, then your 80 psi might read as my 50 psi. Help me out on this? Paul Dorsey 60 TR3 ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Andrew Uprichard" <>; ; Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 7:34 PM Subject: Re: [TR] Oil Pressure > What is this? You show me yours and I'll show you mine? > ------Original Message------ > From: Andrew Uprichard > Sender: triumphs-bounces at autox.team.net > To: triumphs at autox.team.net > Subject: [TR] Oil Pressure > Sent: Sep 15, 2009 6:14 PM > > List: > > Before I give away my numbers, what range (idle to full acceleration) > should > one aim for with oil pressure on a TR3? > > Andrew Uprichard > This list supported in part by the Vintage Triumph Register > http://www.vtr.org > > > Triumphs at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs > > > http://www.team.net/archive > > > Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T > _______________________________________________ > > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > This list supported in part by the Vintage Triumph Register > http://www.vtr.org > > > Triumphs at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs > > > http://www.team.net/archive From mlang99 at comcast.net Tue Sep 15 21:25:00 2009 From: mlang99 at comcast.net (Michael Lang) Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 20:25:00 -0700 Subject: [TR] Oil Pressure In-Reply-To: <4AB048A4.70205@bradakis.com> References: <20090915173833.3FF6U.187208.imail@eastrmwml45> <4AB048A4.70205@bradakis.com> Message-ID: <4AB05A8C.6070303@comcast.net> So far, I have never damaged an engine that met the basic rule that Mark mentions below. The shop manual says 70psi at 2K rpm and 70C temperature. Mike Mark J Bradakis wrote: > > Before I give away my numbers, what range (idle to full > acceleration) should one aim > > for with oil pressure on a TR3? > > Basic rule of thumb for minimum oil pressure is 10 psi for every 1,000 > rpm. > > > mjb. From tony at tonydrews.com Tue Sep 15 21:34:10 2009 From: tony at tonydrews.com (Tony Drews) Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 22:34:10 -0500 Subject: [TR] Oil Pressure In-Reply-To: <137D5AAE510B4DA19B746361CE3ADC11@YOUR7F50EBAA71> References: <20090916000129.39CD01878A1@autox.team.net> <137D5AAE510B4DA19B746361CE3ADC11@YOUR7F50EBAA71> Message-ID: <20090916033505.8D65F187649@autox.team.net> The setting of the bypass valve will affect the maximum pressure read on the oil pressure gauge but shouldn't affect idle pressure. I like to have it set so that it limits the pressure to 70 ish PSI. If you have crud in it, it's a good source for oil pressure drop across the entire rev range. - Tony Drews At 09:43 PM 9/15/2009, dorpaul wrote: >Andrew and others; >Isn't the oil pressure reading dependant on how one sets a valve >back at the oil filter? > >If that's so, then your 80 psi might read as my 50 psi. Help me out on this? >Paul Dorsey 60 TR3 > >----- Original Message ----- From: >To: "Andrew Uprichard" <>; ; > >Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 7:34 PM >Subject: Re: [TR] Oil Pressure > > >>What is this? You show me yours and I'll show you mine? >>------Original Message------ >>From: Andrew Uprichard >>Sender: triumphs-bounces at autox.team.net >>To: triumphs at autox.team.net >>Subject: [TR] Oil Pressure >>Sent: Sep 15, 2009 6:14 PM >> >>List: >> >>Before I give away my numbers, what range (idle to full acceleration) should >>one aim for with oil pressure on a TR3? >> >>Andrew Uprichard From pdonnel1 at san.rr.com Tue Sep 15 21:38:00 2009 From: pdonnel1 at san.rr.com (John & Pat Donnelly) Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 20:38:00 -0700 Subject: [TR] Examining IRS Outer Hubs Message-ID: <000601ca367f$176ebc00$464c3400$@rr.com> All, While waiting for parts to arrive for my oil pressure solution I suffered from Shipwrights Disease and pulled the rear axles on my 4A IRS in order to lube up the sliding half shafts. The outer hubs are 40 years old so I thought I'd check them, but wasn't sure for what? So I measured the outer hub assembly end float and it was .009", which is twice what the Bentley manual claims is correct. The hubs spun quite nicely with no restrictions or binding. Should I worry? Johnnie '67 TR4A IRS From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Wed Sep 16 00:13:17 2009 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 23:13:17 -0700 Subject: [TR] Tubes? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20090916061317755.OPAH11918@cdptpa-omta04.mail.rr.com> > As I understand it, wheels without a safety bead need tubes to make > sure you don't have an air-out in a sharp corner. A very common myth, but not true. The safety beads do help retain the tire on the wheel after it is flat, but they do that whether there is a tube or not. The confusion arises because the safety beads were introduced not too long after tubeless tires, as a further safety improvement. Kind of like air bags; an incremental improvement in safety, but won't automatically kill you if you should dare to drive a car without them. > Do stock TR6 wheels have a safety bead? Some do, not sure about all of them. > If not, are you running tubes in > your tires? I've run well over 100,000 miles with tubeless tires on wheels without the safety beads (stock TR3 wheels don't have them); including some very spirited driving, the occasional flat tire, and at least a few unplanned off-road excursions; and NEVER had a problem due to lack of safety beads. > I also discovered some tubeless tires will void the warranty by > running tubes... That is because the tire must be de-rated when used with a tube. The tube adds friction and interferes with the cooling of the tire, so maximum load must be decreased to keep the tire from overheating. Modern tire makers don't want to bother with the fuss of publishing (and enforcing) the derating information, so they don't. Randall From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Wed Sep 16 00:53:54 2009 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 23:53:54 -0700 Subject: [TR] Oil Pressure In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20090916065354913.OUXK11918@cdptpa-omta04.mail.rr.com> > Before I give away my numbers, what range (idle to full > acceleration) should > one aim for with oil pressure on a TR3? while I agree with Tony's numbers, I have seen TR3 engines survive with much less. In fact, I drove a whole year with an engine that showed no pressure at all at hot idle, and no more than 30-40 psi at hot cruise with the heaviest oil I could find. I'll also throw out my usual caveat : Before you get too concerned over what the gauge reads, make sure it is accurate. Old gauges frequently lie. Randall From tr4zest at gmail.com Wed Sep 16 01:41:25 2009 From: tr4zest at gmail.com (Brian Jones) Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 03:41:25 -0400 Subject: [TR] Burned Exhaust Valve In-Reply-To: <20090915173833.3FF6U.187208.imail@eastrmwml45> References: <20090915173833.3FF6U.187208.imail@eastrmwml45> Message-ID: Art,I was intrigued by your issue and in a quick web search found this -to me- helpful link. http://www.aa1car.com/library/ar1192.htm It explains, as did Randall, that exhaust valves must be seated properly. They get much hotter than inlet valves and dissipate heat through their contact with the valve seat. So poor seating = more heating, sometimes to the point of failure. So if the guide is OK, how is the seat? Water jacket failure around that cylinder would also cause heat build up. You mention the head gasket was OK. Did you use silicone goop in its installation to seal it? My PO used to. I've had the head off twice (for different reasons) and each time have fished out with forceps both blue and orange gobs of goop in the water channels. He clearly had no brand loyalty where goop was concerned. Other reasons for failure are discussed in the link: too lean mixture, detonation, pre-ignition, among others. Brian On Tue, Sep 15, 2009 at 5:38 PM, wrote: > Thanks for your responses. > > Joe, there was some smoke reported when I accelerated. > > Jim, I think the valve guide is okay. With the springs removed, I can put > my finger over the top of the guide, pull the valve down and the suction > will pull the valve back up. This is consistent on all valves. > > Randall, I will leak test the cylinders to hopefully determine where oil is > coming from. To do this I will pour a small amount of oil (Marvel Mystery) > onto the top of pistons #5 and #6. I'll test the others this way also. > Maybe that will tell me something. > > The oil loss and burned valve are probably related. I'll post an update. > > Art Graves > Tulsa, OK > 1976 Triumph TR6 > > > > > > Thinking that the head must not have been torqued properly, I began > cleaning > > my tools and shop for the next day. Then I noticed a gaping hole in the > #6 > > exhaust valve. I removed it and there is a 5/16'' chunk missing! My > > question > > is what could have caused that? > _______________________________________________ > > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > This list supported in part by the Vintage Triumph Register > http://www.vtr.org > > > Triumphs at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs > > > http://www.team.net/archive From auprichard at comcast.net Wed Sep 16 03:35:52 2009 From: auprichard at comcast.net (Andrew Uprichard) Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 05:35:52 -0400 Subject: [TR] Oil Pressure In-Reply-To: <20090916065354913.OUXK11918@cdptpa-omta04.mail.rr.com> References: <20090916065354913.OUXK11918@cdptpa-omta04.mail.rr.com> Message-ID: List: thanks to all who replied. As usual, I like Randall's caveat. My newly-rebuilt engine was reading 50 at idle and 80 at 3000 rpm: I dialed it back by adjusting the set-up on the filter head and now it reads 30 and 50 respectively. My other car has a much wider span of pressures over the rpm range, so I think I'll get the gauge checked out as well. Andrew -----Original Message----- From: triumphs-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:triumphs-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Randall Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 2:54 AM To: triumphs at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [TR] Oil Pressure > Before I give away my numbers, what range (idle to full > acceleration) should > one aim for with oil pressure on a TR3? while I agree with Tony's numbers, I have seen TR3 engines survive with much less. In fact, I drove a whole year with an engine that showed no pressure at all at hot idle, and no more than 30-40 psi at hot cruise with the heaviest oil I could find. I'll also throw out my usual caveat : Before you get too concerned over what the gauge reads, make sure it is accurate. Old gauges frequently lie. Randall This list supported in part by the Vintage Triumph Register http://www.vtr.org Triumphs at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs http://www.team.net/archive From david.brister at wanadoo.fr Wed Sep 16 05:44:11 2009 From: david.brister at wanadoo.fr (David Brister) Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 13:44:11 +0200 Subject: [TR] Oil Pressure References: <20090916065354913.OUXK11918@cdptpa-omta04.mail.rr.com> Message-ID: <6C5E4CCF564D4C14A81E878F8E94EF2F@Study> After an engine rebuild my TR4A oil pressure was adjusted on the bypass valve spring to 70psi hot at 2000rpm. This gave around 30 at 800 idle hot. After about 50k miles I noticed that after a long blast at 3500 revs in hot weather on a motorway on returning to "normal" driving the 2000rpm pressure would have dropped to 40-45 and idle 5-10psi. This would gradually recover as one continued in normal road driving. I dropped the sump and changed the big end bearings (which did'nt show much wear) and oil pressures returned to normal in all conditions. I have always used 20/50 or 10/40 oil. Which oil I use does'nt seem to make any difference to the oil pressure. Whilst I agree with Randall that you can drive safely with low oil pressure I believe that will cause the bearings to wear quicker, particularly the mains. There is occasionally a drop in pressure from 70psi to around 30. That is my cue to stop and remove the oil pressure relief valve and clean the ball which has picked up a bit of muck between it and the seat.. When you have done this a few times it does'nt take much effort or time. (You have to note the turns needed to remove the adjusting screw). When I acquired the car Pete Cox told me that if the 2000rpm pressure dropped below 50 or so it was time for action. YMMV of course, David Brister, 1967 TR4A. -- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. We are a community of 6 million users fighting spam. SPAMfighter has removed 25369 of my spam emails to date. Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len The Professional version does not have this message From emanteno at gmail.com Wed Sep 16 06:12:53 2009 From: emanteno at gmail.com (Irv Korey) Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 07:12:53 -0500 Subject: [TR] Tubes? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <354a1780909160512l1f1fe494s8879e64ed01ea681@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, Sep 15, 2009 at 9:26 PM, Jeff Scarbrough wrote: > OK, I've searched until my head is spinning. I've got an idea of what size > tire I want for stock rims, which are 5.5J x 15, but the Redlines on there > (20+ years old!) have tubes. > > As I understand it, wheels without a safety bead need tubes to make sure > you don't have an air-out in a sharp corner. Do stock TR6 wheels have a > safety bead? If not, are you running tubes in your tires? > You can safely run tubeless tires on stock TR6 rims. Irv Korey 74 TR6 CF22767U Highland Park, IL From Chip19474 at aol.com Wed Sep 16 06:23:22 2009 From: Chip19474 at aol.com (Chip19474 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 08:23:22 EDT Subject: [TR] Examining IRS Outer Hubs Message-ID: My "rule of thumb" has always been that you shouldn't feel any play in the rear wheels while they are hanging free if you grasp them at noon and 6pm and give them a good shake. But, I've seen (felt) many wheels with the slightest amount of play which have stayed consistently like that for many years. Typically, when the hub bearings really start to wear, the offending wheel will bang when traveling over bumps or most often when it's lightly loaded (taking a tight turn). The ultimate danger in letting things get very bad back there is separation of the axle shaft and a lost wheel. Chip Krout Delaware Valley Triumphs, Ltd. Skippack, PA 1976 TR6 CF57822U In a message dated 9/16/2009 12:03:30 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, pdonnel1 at san.rr.com writes: I measured the outer hub assembly end float and it was .009", which is twice what the Bentley manual claims is correct. The hubs spun quite nicely with no restrictions or binding. From dlylis at gmail.com Wed Sep 16 08:54:10 2009 From: dlylis at gmail.com (dlylis at gmail.com) Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 14:54:10 +0000 Subject: [TR] Oil Pressure In-Reply-To: References: <20090916065354913.OUXK11918@cdptpa-omta04.mail.rr.com> Message-ID: I paid a lot of attention to clearances when I rebuilt my 3A motor. I have 55 at hot idle and can clearly see the bypass valve function at 75 lbs when I wind the motor over 3500. 20/50 oil. New gauge so I am reasonably confident of the numbers. There, I have showed you mine! ;-) Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T -----Original Message----- From: "Andrew Uprichard" Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 05:35:52 To: 'Randall'; Subject: Re: [TR] Oil Pressure List: thanks to all who replied. As usual, I like Randall's caveat. My newly-rebuilt engine was reading 50 at idle and 80 at 3000 rpm: I dialed it back by adjusting the set-up on the filter head and now it reads 30 and 50 respectively. My other car has a much wider span of pressures over the rpm range, so I think I'll get the gauge checked out as well. Andrew -----Original Message----- From: triumphs-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:triumphs-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Randall Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 2:54 AM To: triumphs at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [TR] Oil Pressure > Before I give away my numbers, what range (idle to full > acceleration) should > one aim for with oil pressure on a TR3? while I agree with Tony's numbers, I have seen TR3 engines survive with much less. In fact, I drove a whole year with an engine that showed no pressure at all at hot idle, and no more than 30-40 psi at hot cruise with the heaviest oil I could find. I'll also throw out my usual caveat : Before you get too concerned over what the gauge reads, make sure it is accurate. Old gauges frequently lie. Randall This list supported in part by the Vintage Triumph Register http://www.vtr.org Triumphs at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs http://www.team.net/archive _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html This list supported in part by the Vintage Triumph Register http://www.vtr.org Triumphs at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs http://www.team.net/archive From wbeech at flash.net Wed Sep 16 10:13:02 2009 From: wbeech at flash.net (wbeech at flash.net) Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 10:13:02 -0600 Subject: [TR] Oil Pressure In-Reply-To: <20090916152046.AC9A418788B@autox.team.net> References: <20090916065354913.OUXK11918@cdptpa-omta04.mail.rr.com> <20090916152046.AC9A418788B@autox.team.net> Message-ID: <05F9635C6A864F458D86ADA00DA34B38@bboffice> This has been a fascinating discussion! I was not aware of this valve, does it regulate the oil pressure in the engine or just to the gauge? If to the engine, could it be part of the reason I am seeing excessive leaking from my brand new rear main seal? Right now, most of time, driving at 3000rpm yields a pressure reading of 80-90psi. Bill Beecher '58 TR-3A TS/30766 L (On the road in 2009!) "A Triumph is man's best friend, it always comes when it is called...of course, some times it is difficult to make it go" -----Original Message----- From: triumphs-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:triumphs-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of dlylis at gmail.com Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 8:54 AM To: Andrew Uprichard; triumphs-bounces at autox.team.net; 'Randall'; triumphs at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [TR] Oil Pressure I paid a lot of attention to clearances when I rebuilt my 3A motor. I have 55 at hot idle and can clearly see the bypass valve function at 75 lbs when I wind the motor over 3500. 20/50 oil. New gauge so I am reasonably confident of the numbers. There, I have showed you mine! ;-) Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T -----Original Message----- From: "Andrew Uprichard" Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 05:35:52 To: 'Randall'; Subject: Re: [TR] Oil Pressure List: thanks to all who replied. As usual, I like Randall's caveat. My newly-rebuilt engine was reading 50 at idle and 80 at 3000 rpm: I dialed it back by adjusting the set-up on the filter head and now it reads 30 and 50 respectively. My other car has a much wider span of pressures over the rpm range, so I think I'll get the gauge checked out as well. Andrew -----Original Message----- From: triumphs-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:triumphs-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Randall Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 2:54 AM To: triumphs at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [TR] Oil Pressure > Before I give away my numbers, what range (idle to full > acceleration) should > one aim for with oil pressure on a TR3? while I agree with Tony's numbers, I have seen TR3 engines survive with much less. In fact, I drove a whole year with an engine that showed no pressure at all at hot idle, and no more than 30-40 psi at hot cruise with the heaviest oil I could find. I'll also throw out my usual caveat : Before you get too concerned over what the gauge reads, make sure it is accurate. Old gauges frequently lie. Randall This list supported in part by the Vintage Triumph Register http://www.vtr.org Triumphs at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs http://www.team.net/archive This list supported in part by the Vintage Triumph Register http://www.vtr.org Triumphs at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs http://www.team.net/archive This list supported in part by the Vintage Triumph Register http://www.vtr.org Triumphs at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs http://www.team.net/archive From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Wed Sep 16 10:58:25 2009 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 09:58:25 -0700 Subject: [TR] Oil Pressure In-Reply-To: <05F9635C6A864F458D86ADA00DA34B38@bboffice> References: <20090916065354913.OUXK11918@cdptpa-omta04.mail.rr.com> <20090916152046.AC9A418788B@autox.team.net> <05F9635C6A864F458D86ADA00DA34B38@bboffice> Message-ID: <9CEDD9333E0344F38D96A8159E80ED13@jdnet.deere.com> > I was not aware of this valve, does > it regulate the oil pressure in the engine or just to the gauge? To the engine. > If to the > engine, could it be part of the reason I am seeing excessive leaking from > my brand new rear main seal? Could be, though I think it's unlikely unless your rear main bearing is tired. The rear main seal does not have to seal against the oil gallery pressure, there is a big drain hole to carry away whatever oil leaks from the rear main bearing. > Right now, most of time, driving at 3000rpm yields a pressure reading of > 80-90psi. A bit high, but only a bit. The book says the pressure relief valve should open at 70 psi. However, it doesn't immediately open fully, so the pressure can rise above 70 psi if there is a lot of flow through the valve (as there will be with a tight, cold engine). Long time ago, I ran straight 40 weight oil even in the winter time. Worked well in the tired old engine, but after the rebuild it would peg the oil gauge on cold starts. Didn't seem to cause any excess leaks (but I did switch to lighter oil at the next change). The usual causes of leakage from the scroll-type rear main seal are excess crankcase pressure; and clearances too large at the seal. The factory workshop manual appears to have a misprint on the drawing for the setting mandrel, which of course has been copied many times over the years (including the setting tools sold by some vendors). -- Randall From auprichard at comcast.net Wed Sep 16 11:15:39 2009 From: auprichard at comcast.net (Andrew Uprichard) Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 13:15:39 -0400 Subject: [TR] Oil Pressure In-Reply-To: <05F9635C6A864F458D86ADA00DA34B38@bboffice> References: <20090916065354913.OUXK11918@cdptpa-omta04.mail.rr.com> <20090916152046.AC9A418788B@autox.team.net> <05F9635C6A864F458D86ADA00DA34B38@bboffice> Message-ID: <5A3BA0DCFD0546CB899D8DF0FB6E9F9B@DCH6RFC1> The valve regulates pressure to the engine and the feedback I have received from the list and elsewhere would suggest 80 - 90psi is way to high. Having said that, I reduced the pressure and the car continues to drip :-( Andrew Uprichard -----Original Message----- From: wbeech at flash.net [mailto:wbeech at flash.net] Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 12:13 PM To: dlylis at gmail.com; 'Andrew Uprichard'; triumphs-bounces at autox.team.net; 'Randall'; triumphs at autox.team.net Subject: RE: [TR] Oil Pressure This has been a fascinating discussion! I was not aware of this valve, does it regulate the oil pressure in the engine or just to the gauge? If to the engine, could it be part of the reason I am seeing excessive leaking from my brand new rear main seal? Right now, most of time, driving at 3000rpm yields a pressure reading of 80-90psi. Bill Beecher '58 TR-3A TS/30766 L (On the road in 2009!) "A Triumph is man's best friend, it always comes when it is called...of course, some times it is difficult to make it go" -----Original Message----- From: triumphs-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:triumphs-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of dlylis at gmail.com Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 8:54 AM To: Andrew Uprichard; triumphs-bounces at autox.team.net; 'Randall'; triumphs at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [TR] Oil Pressure I paid a lot of attention to clearances when I rebuilt my 3A motor. I have 55 at hot idle and can clearly see the bypass valve function at 75 lbs when I wind the motor over 3500. 20/50 oil. New gauge so I am reasonably confident of the numbers. There, I have showed you mine! ;-) Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T -----Original Message----- From: "Andrew Uprichard" Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 05:35:52 To: 'Randall'; Subject: Re: [TR] Oil Pressure List: thanks to all who replied. As usual, I like Randall's caveat. My newly-rebuilt engine was reading 50 at idle and 80 at 3000 rpm: I dialed it back by adjusting the set-up on the filter head and now it reads 30 and 50 respectively. My other car has a much wider span of pressures over the rpm range, so I think I'll get the gauge checked out as well. Andrew -----Original Message----- From: triumphs-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:triumphs-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Randall Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 2:54 AM To: triumphs at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [TR] Oil Pressure > Before I give away my numbers, what range (idle to full > acceleration) should > one aim for with oil pressure on a TR3? while I agree with Tony's numbers, I have seen TR3 engines survive with much less. In fact, I drove a whole year with an engine that showed no pressure at all at hot idle, and no more than 30-40 psi at hot cruise with the heaviest oil I could find. I'll also throw out my usual caveat : Before you get too concerned over what the gauge reads, make sure it is accurate. Old gauges frequently lie. Randall This list supported in part by the Vintage Triumph Register http://www.vtr.org Triumphs at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs http://www.team.net/archive This list supported in part by the Vintage Triumph Register http://www.vtr.org Triumphs at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs http://www.team.net/archive This list supported in part by the Vintage Triumph Register http://www.vtr.org Triumphs at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs http://www.team.net/archive From david.brister at wanadoo.fr Wed Sep 16 12:00:57 2009 From: david.brister at wanadoo.fr (David Brister) Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 20:00:57 +0200 Subject: [TR] Oil Pressure References: <20090916065354913.OUXK11918@cdptpa-omta04.mail.rr.com><20090916152046.AC9A418788B@autox.team.net><05F9635C6A864F458D86ADA00DA34B38@bboffice> <5A3BA0DCFD0546CB899D8DF0FB6E9F9B@DCH6RFC1> Message-ID: <910076D21DB049DB9222D8D34C0D3214@Study> Don't forget the old wisdom regarding all LBC's. If it does'nt leak oil be very afraid. Almost certainly there is no oil left in there. David Brister 1967 TR4A -- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. We are a community of 6 million users fighting spam. SPAMfighter has removed 25383 of my spam emails to date. Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len The Professional version does not have this message From dlylis at gmail.com Wed Sep 16 12:29:43 2009 From: dlylis at gmail.com (dlylis at gmail.com) Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 18:29:43 +0000 Subject: [TR] Oil Pressure In-Reply-To: <05F9635C6A864F458D86ADA00DA34B38@bboffice> References: <20090916065354913.OUXK11918@cdptpa-omta04.mail.rr.com> <20090916152046.AC9A418788B@autox.team.net><05F9635C6A864F458D86ADA00DA34B38@bboffice> Message-ID: I think you are talking about a 3A and since you have said "seal" I assume you have replaced the scroll with a "modern seal" that leaks in an "oh so modern way". I ground off the scroll and replaced with the "modern seal" and have regretted doing so as it leaks as bad as before. . . But I paid money to get it to leak like this this time. Unlikely your oil pressure has anything to do with the leak. Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T -----Original Message----- From: Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 10:13:02 To: ; 'Andrew Uprichard'; ; 'Randall'; Subject: RE: [TR] Oil Pressure This has been a fascinating discussion! I was not aware of this valve, does it regulate the oil pressure in the engine or just to the gauge? If to the engine, could it be part of the reason I am seeing excessive leaking from my brand new rear main seal? Right now, most of time, driving at 3000rpm yields a pressure reading of 80-90psi. Bill Beecher '58 TR-3A TS/30766 L (On the road in 2009!) "A Triumph is man's best friend, it always comes when it is called...of course, some times it is difficult to make it go" -----Original Message----- From: triumphs-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:triumphs-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of dlylis at gmail.com Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 8:54 AM To: Andrew Uprichard; triumphs-bounces at autox.team.net; 'Randall'; triumphs at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [TR] Oil Pressure I paid a lot of attention to clearances when I rebuilt my 3A motor. I have 55 at hot idle and can clearly see the bypass valve function at 75 lbs when I wind the motor over 3500. 20/50 oil. New gauge so I am reasonably confident of the numbers. There, I have showed you mine! ;-) Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T -----Original Message----- From: "Andrew Uprichard" Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 05:35:52 To: 'Randall'; Subject: Re: [TR] Oil Pressure List: thanks to all who replied. As usual, I like Randall's caveat. My newly-rebuilt engine was reading 50 at idle and 80 at 3000 rpm: I dialed it back by adjusting the set-up on the filter head and now it reads 30 and 50 respectively. My other car has a much wider span of pressures over the rpm range, so I think I'll get the gauge checked out as well. Andrew -----Original Message----- From: triumphs-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:triumphs-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Randall Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 2:54 AM To: triumphs at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [TR] Oil Pressure > Before I give away my numbers, what range (idle to full > acceleration) should > one aim for with oil pressure on a TR3? while I agree with Tony's numbers, I have seen TR3 engines survive with much less. In fact, I drove a whole year with an engine that showed no pressure at all at hot idle, and no more than 30-40 psi at hot cruise with the heaviest oil I could find. I'll also throw out my usual caveat : Before you get too concerned over what the gauge reads, make sure it is accurate. Old gauges frequently lie. Randall This list supported in part by the Vintage Triumph Register http://www.vtr.org Triumphs at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs http://www.team.net/archive _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html This list supported in part by the Vintage Triumph Register http://www.vtr.org Triumphs at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs http://www.team.net/archive _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html This list supported in part by the Vintage Triumph Register http://www.vtr.org Triumphs at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs http://www.team.net/archive From brad.kahler at 141.com Wed Sep 16 13:02:47 2009 From: brad.kahler at 141.com (Brad Kahler) Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 19:02:47 GMT Subject: [TR] Oil Pressure Message-ID: <200909161302822.SM05144@[166.70.182.42]> This thread reminds me of a conversation I had with Kas Kastner at a race we attended at Mosport a few years ago. I was working on Susan's 1300 spitfire engine trying to sort out a low oil pressure problem. As is typical of these events I had plenty of help and assistance from all of the other Triumph racers. Of note was when Kas was helping me troubleshoot the oil pressure problem. During our conversation we discussed the concerns of having to little oil pressure, especially at high rpms (i.e. 6000 and up). Obviously at higher rpms you don't want to see low oil pressure and you would expect to see max pressure at that time, which was what we weren't getting. I asked Kas what he felt the top end limit for oil pressure should be on Susan's 1300 engine. He kind of surprised me when he said if he had his druthers a high oil pressure reading of well over 100 psi would be his choice (I don't remember the exact number but it was more than you would think). He agreed there would be hp loss due to having to run a pump that high but his thought was a healthy flow of oil helped keep the engine running smoothly and helped it survive in high rev conditions. During Susan's last race at VIR this spring we noticed on the last day that at idle her oil pressure had dropped to 20 psi or so when it used to be around 60 psi. High rpm pressure was about 70 psi. At that point we elected to put the car on the trailer rather than risk the engine. Such is racing. Anyway, I always remember that conversation when I read threads like this where people seem to worry about having to high of an oil pressure reading. I no longer worry about having to much oil pressure. When I see a drop from what it normally runs THAT is when I start to worry. You can interpret the conversation I had with Kas anyway you want, I know how I've interpreted it........... Brad On Wed, Sep 16, 2009 at 12:58 PM, Randall wrote: > I was not aware of this valve, does > it regulate the oil pressure in the engine or just to the gauge? To the engine. > If to the > engine, could it be part of the reason I am seeing excessive leaking from > my brand new rear main seal? Could be, though I think it's unlikely unless your rear main bearing is tired. The rear main seal does not have to seal against the oil gallery pressure, there is a big drain hole to carry away whatever oil leaks from the rear main bearing. > Right now, most of time, driving at 3000rpm yields a pressure reading of > 80-90psi. A bit high, but only a bit. The book says the pressure relief valve should open at 70 psi. However, it doesn't immediately open fully, so the pressure can rise above 70 psi if there is a lot of flow through the valve (as there will be with a tight, cold engine). Long time ago, I ran straight 40 weight oil even in the winter time. Worked well in the tired old engine, but after the rebuild it would peg the oil gauge on cold starts. Didn't seem to cause any excess leaks (but I did switch to lighter oil at the next change). The usual causes of leakage from the scroll-type rear main seal are excess crankcase pressure; and clearances too large at the seal. The factory workshop manual appears to have a misprint on the drawing for the setting mandrel, which of course has been copied many times over the years (including the setting tools sold by some vendors). -- Randall This list supported in part by the Vintage Triumph Register http://www.vtr.org Triumphs at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs http://www.team.net/archive From guy at genfiniti.com Wed Sep 16 16:04:41 2009 From: guy at genfiniti.com (Guy D. Huggins) Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 17:04:41 -0500 Subject: [TR] TR4A Body Questions Message-ID: <000b01ca3719$b19d0c10$14d72430$@com> Greetings All, It's been a long time since I've posted anything to the group, but I've recently gotten back to my TR4A restoration project and have some questions. I am attempting to complete the last bit of disassembling the body so that I can have each piece cleaned to bare metal individually. The plan is to take it to Metal Rehab in Arlington, Texas since they did such a great job with the chassis. Here are my questions: 1. I want to remove the "Riv-Nuts", of which there are five, from the top ridge of the rear deck. How do you do this outside of destroying them and replacing? If they're made of steel, they can stay. But they sure look like aluminum to me. (Aluminum will be "eaten" by the cleaning solution.) 2. I want to go ahead and drill the holes for shoulder belt anchors. I figured the location and size of the holes will depend on the product I choose to install. Can someone make a recommendation? 3. I am attempting to remove the original seat belt anchors. After taking a wire brush to the pitch-like undercoating that covered the nuts, I did my best to break them, but they just wouldn't budge, even with an impact wrench. I looked for welds, but didn't see any, but it doesn't mean they're not there. Can someone tell me if these things are in fact welded to the body tub? Thanks in advance for your help. I greatly appreciate this list and am proud that I get to help others from time-to-time. Cheers, Guy D. Huggins Kennedale, Texas 1965 Triumph TR4A (CTC 63569LO) http://www.genfiniti.com/triumph From terryrs at comcast.net Wed Sep 16 16:52:11 2009 From: terryrs at comcast.net (terryrs at comcast.net) Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 22:52:11 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [TR] Oil Pressure In-Reply-To: <20090916065354913.OUXK11918@cdptpa-omta04.mail.rr.com> Message-ID: <1170323540.2957791253141531732.JavaMail.root@sz0059a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> >B B Old gauges frequently lie. Uhm, would this be like a TR wife (obligatory TR discslaimer) after an apparel shopping trip to the mall????? Terry Smith, '59 TR3A New Hampshire From ZoboHerald at aol.com Wed Sep 16 17:20:10 2009 From: ZoboHerald at aol.com (ZoboHerald at aol.com) Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 19:20:10 EDT Subject: [TR] TR4A Body Questions Message-ID: In a message dated 9/16/2009 6:19:27 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, guy at genfiniti.com writes: 3. I am attempting to remove the original seat belt anchors. After taking a wire brush to the pitch-like undercoating that covered the nuts, I did my best to break them, but they just wouldn't budge, even with an impact wrench. I looked for welds, but didn't see any, but it doesn't mean they're not there. Can someone tell me if these things are in fact welded to the body tub? ==AM== If you're referring to what the eyebolts screw into, yes, I'm almost positive they were permanently affixed to the body. If the surrounding metal is intact, I'd say leave them as-is. --Andy Mace *Mrs Irrelevant: Oh, is it a jet? *Man: Well, no ... It's not so much of a jet, it's more your, er, Triumph Herald engine with wings. -- Cut-price Airlines Sketch, Monty Python's Flying Circus (22) Triumph 10 / Herald / Sports 6 vehicle consultant, The Vintage Triumph Register: _http://www.vtr.org_ (http://www.vtr.org/) Check out the North American Triumph Sports 6 (Vitesse 6) and Triumph Herald Database: _http://triumph-herald.us_ (http://triumph-herald.us/) From agraham at execulink.com Wed Sep 16 18:12:38 2009 From: agraham at execulink.com (Angelo Graham) Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 20:12:38 -0400 Subject: [TR] Vertical link problems - TR2/3 Message-ID: <200909170013.n8H0DBCu000834@smtp2.execulink.net> Hello List: A question about the vertical link tightness I am experiencing following my front suspension rebuild. When I tighten down the castellated nut holding the vertical link to the upper ball joint, the link tightens up solid and I cannot get any easy steering action whatsoever. If I back off the nut to try to find a compromise setting to allow some turning, the link turns in the ball joint taper. The suspension is not under load and "hanging" from the frame at the lowest position possible. Is the ball joint being jammed by hanging down, preventing any turning action?? Can't compress the suspension yet as the engine is not yet in and no weight to jack against. The joints are still relatively dry as I have not greased them as yet. Followed all manual instructions during the rebuild along with advice from the List. Just wondering if I botched something during the rebuild. Scratching my head on this one (again!!). Many thanks. Angelo Graham From dlylis at gmail.com Wed Sep 16 19:29:50 2009 From: dlylis at gmail.com (dlylis at gmail.com) Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 01:29:50 +0000 Subject: [TR] Vertical link problems - TR2/3 Message-ID: How were the ball joints when you installed them? They should move freely just by twisting with your hands. If that is the case then the ball joints are OK. Is it that your steering is locked, or tight? With the suspension fully extended down you can expect stiffness from my experience. You might check if your ball joints are jammed against the side of the socket when fully extended which would inhibit free movement. There is a rubber stop that goes under the lower spring pan. Is that installed? Since you have the castellated nut that loose, take it off and drop the vertical link away and check the ball joint for free movement one final time. ------Original Message------ From: Angelo Graham Sender: triumphs-bounces at autox.team.net To: triumphs at autox.team.net Subject: [TR] Vertical link problems - TR2/3 Sent: Sep 16, 2009 8:12 PM Hello List: A question about the vertical link tightness I am experiencing following my front suspension rebuild. When I tighten down the castellated nut holding the vertical link to the upper ball joint, the link tightens up solid and I cannot get any easy steering action whatsoever. If I back off the nut to try to find a compromise setting to allow some turning, the link turns in the ball joint taper. The suspension is not under load and "hanging" from the frame at the lowest position possible. Is the ball joint being jammed by hanging down, preventing any turning action?? Can't compress the suspension yet as the engine is not yet in and no weight to jack against. The joints are still relatively dry as I have not greased them as yet. Followed all manual instructions during the rebuild along with advice from the List. Just wondering if I botched something during the rebuild. Scratching my head on this one (again!!). Many thanks. Angelo Graham This list supported in part by the Vintage Triumph Register http://www.vtr.org Triumphs at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs http://www.team.net/archive Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Wed Sep 16 21:04:12 2009 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 20:04:12 -0700 Subject: [TR] Vertical link problems - TR2/3 In-Reply-To: <200909170013.n8H0DBCu000834@smtp2.execulink.net> Message-ID: <20090917030412265.XCEY17198@cdptpa-omta04.mail.rr.com> Angelo, It sounds to me as though you are assembling in the wrong order. The arms & joints should all be installed before adding the spring, so there should be nothing to compress at this point. The VL should still turn freely, right up to the point where you connect the tie rod. The ball joint should be loose enough that you can move the tapered pin with your fingers (with some resistance/difficulty). Other possibilities include having the upper arms installed wrong (the right arm should overlap the left); the vertical link being bent (Herman van den Akker wrote of having to look through 6 of them to find two that were not bent); and having the wrong trunnions (later TR4 trunnions look nearly identical, but have a slight angle built into them). The tapered link must be installed firmly, do NOT leave it even slightly loose. If there is any motion whatsoever at the taper, it will quickly ruin not only the ball joint but the vertical link as well. Randall From pdonnel1 at san.rr.com Wed Sep 16 22:24:59 2009 From: pdonnel1 at san.rr.com (John & Pat Donnelly) Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 21:24:59 -0700 Subject: [TR] Low Oil Pressure and Engine Noises In-Reply-To: <20090906235819519.JEJS8566@cdptpa-omta04.mail.rr.com> References: <000001ca2f49$ae7212b0$0b563810$@rr.com> <20090906235819519.JEJS8566@cdptpa-omta04.mail.rr.com> Message-ID: <000001ca374e$d1d340a0$7579c1e0$@rr.com> > > Can I just remove the main > > caps and rotate the top one out? > > Yup, that's the idea. Do them one at a time, so the crank is still > supported. I flattened one of the lower inserts and used it as a drift > to > start the upper ones out a little bit. Then I was able to pinch the > end > against the crank and turn the crank to roll it out the rest of the > way. The parts came in from TRF so I crawled underneath. Got the rod bearings changed. That was easy, and in fact they didn't look too bad. Pulled the main center bearing, and after some gentle nudging I was able to rotate out the old top one and the new one in. So far, so good. So I decided to tackle the rear bearing. Pulled the clutch slave and the lower flywheel cover. I could loosen the rear cap and drop it about an inch or so until the rear seal (the original type) bolt heads interfered with the flywheel and would go no further. Just give me an eighth of an inch! The two bottom seal bolt-heads cleared but the outer two didn't. I tried rotating the crank in various positions, and that helped a little, but no luck. It's loose, but won't break free. I tried putting it back into it's original seated position but it wouldn't go. Crap! Now, I wasn't super physical with it because I didn't want to screw anything up. Looking up at the rear journal you can see some scoring. So I'd really like to get the bearings changed to give me a little more time before I have to R&R the engine, but not sure how to get around the interference. How did others replace the rear main bearing? I'm tired of lying on my back looking up at an oily crankcase for two hours, so I'm crying uncle for the evening. Johnnie From mlang99 at comcast.net Wed Sep 16 22:47:21 2009 From: mlang99 at comcast.net (Michael Lang) Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 21:47:21 -0700 Subject: [TR] Oil Pressure/modern rear main seals In-Reply-To: <20090916192037.88CD41878DB@autox.team.net> References: <20090916065354913.OUXK11918@cdptpa-omta04.mail.rr.com> <20090916152046.AC9A418788B@autox.team.net><05F9635C6A864F458D86ADA00DA34B38@bboffice> <20090916192037.88CD41878DB@autox.team.net> Message-ID: <4AB1BF59.30007@comcast.net> For what it's worth, I have put a couple of thousand miles so far on my modern rear main seals with no leaks. I sort of cheated, and it will be interesting to see how well it works long term. Here is what I ended up with: I bought a used crank that already had the scroll ground down. It was ground to 2.567" in diameter. I purchased a seal kit from BPNW with a spec of 2.500". I bolted the seal assembly to the rear main without the crank installed and measured the ID which was 2.500". Zero interference didn't seem proper, so based on everything that I read on the web, I just put it together the way it was. It will be interesting to see if the 0.067' interference causes it to wear rapidly and start leaking. Oh well, so far so good. By they way, my freshly rebuilt engine has 20psi hot at 500rpm and 70psi at 2000rpm when running 20W50. Mike dlylis at gmail.com wrote: > I think you are talking about a 3A and since you have said "seal" I assume you have replaced the scroll with a "modern seal" that leaks in an "oh so modern way". I ground off the scroll and replaced with the "modern seal" and have regretted doing so as it leaks as bad as before. . . But I paid money to get it to leak like this this time. Unlikely your oil pressure has anything to do with the leak. From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Thu Sep 17 00:07:20 2009 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 23:07:20 -0700 Subject: [TR] Low Oil Pressure and Engine Noises In-Reply-To: <000001ca374e$d1d340a0$7579c1e0$@rr.com> Message-ID: <20090917060720122.DFDH9613@cdptpa-omta02.mail.rr.com> > How did > others replace the rear main bearing? I've done this 3 or 4 times now, on three different TR3/A motors, and the rear main has always come out with some determined wiggling. Maybe I'm just lucky. If you only need 1/8" more, perhaps you could remove the front thrust washer and pry the crankshaft to the rear? Randall From Dave1massey at cs.com Thu Sep 17 06:01:44 2009 From: Dave1massey at cs.com (Dave1massey at cs.com) Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 08:01:44 EDT Subject: [TR] TR4A Body Questions Message-ID: In a message dated 9/16/2009 5:18:48 PM Central Daylight Time, guy at genfiniti.com writes: > 2. I want to go ahead and drill the holes for shoulder belt > anchors. > I figured the location and size of the holes will depend on the product I > choose to install. Can someone make a recommendation? > I just installed some belts in the TR6 from Moss Motors. They are after-market but they are the three point belts with the inertia reel feature. Almost as nice as the original TR6 belts. search on 222-005, 222-010, 222-015 Dave From allenhess at mgcarclub.com Thu Sep 17 06:29:59 2009 From: allenhess at mgcarclub.com (Allen Hess) Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 08:29:59 -0400 Subject: [TR] Vertical link problems - TR2/3 Message-ID: <699C24BE-13DF-468A-B15C-91503415CE9F@mgcarclub.com> As Randall already mentioned, I'd check the vertical link for straightness. I had both bent on a TR4. If you have access to a lathe chuck the screw end and bring the tail stock with a center near the ball joint hole. Rotate by hand and the results will be obvious. Allen From tswhitez123 at hotmail.com Thu Sep 17 08:57:12 2009 From: tswhitez123 at hotmail.com (tom white) Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 14:57:12 +0000 Subject: [TR] Oil Pressure In-Reply-To: <200909161302822.SM05144@[166.70.182.42]> References: <200909161302822.SM05144@[166.70.182.42]> Message-ID: When I was racing my engine builders adamantly advised against using high pressure oil pumps. If I remember correctly they said the high pressure could produce cavitation in the oil system and actually reduce flow. This discussion related to V-8s and may not apply to four bangers of British origin. Best regards, Tom _________________________________________________________________ Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/171222985/direct/01/ From mlang99 at comcast.net Thu Sep 17 09:10:48 2009 From: mlang99 at comcast.net (Michael Lang) Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 08:10:48 -0700 Subject: [TR] TR4A Body Questions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4AB25178.3000203@comcast.net> guy at genfiniti.com writes: >> 2. I want to go ahead and drill the holes for shoulder belt >> anchors. >> I figured the location and size of the holes will depend on the product I >> choose to install. Can someone make a recommendation? >> >> I installed the roadster type inertia shoulder harnesses from Wesco Performance. Here's the link: http://wescoperformance.stores.yahoo.net/resebe.html Mike From rengrave at verizon.net Thu Sep 17 09:31:28 2009 From: rengrave at verizon.net (rengrave at verizon.net) Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 10:31:28 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [TR] Can't gravity bleed front brakes TR6 Message-ID: <143124181.339517.1253201488704.JavaMail.root@vms184.mailsrvcs.net> /Nio0HE: Permission denied From brad.kahler at 141.com Thu Sep 17 09:33:13 2009 From: brad.kahler at 141.com (Brad Kahler) Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 11:33:13 -0400 Subject: [TR] Oil Pressure In-Reply-To: References: <200909161302822.SM05144@166.70.182.42> Message-ID: My discussion with Kas hinged more on what oil pressure would be best for the engine, not how to make it happen. My question to him was how much pressure is enough. I don't now enough about windage trays to know whether the sumps in our cars can support a higher volume/pressure situation. I would have liked to gotten into how to achieve consistant higher pressures with him but at the time I was dealing with trying to get Susan's car back on the track so there was no real time for philosophical questions :) Brad On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 10:57 AM, tom white wrote: > When I was racing my engine builders adamantly advised against using high > pressure oil pumps. If I remember correctly they said the high pressure > could produce cavitation in the oil system and actually reduce flow. This > discussion related to V-8s and may not apply to four bangers of British > origin. > > Best regards, Tom > > > > > ------------------------------ > Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free. Sign up > now. From jimbpps at cox.net Thu Sep 17 09:36:08 2009 From: jimbpps at cox.net (jimbpps at cox.net) Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 11:36:08 -0400 Subject: [TR] Looking for Bill Pugh! Message-ID: <20090917113608.Z0O1Q.237527.imail@fed1rmwml29> Bill, If you get this, please answer to me directly. Have a personal inquiry for you. Regards, Jim From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Thu Sep 17 10:53:37 2009 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 09:53:37 -0700 Subject: [TR] Oil Pressure In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20090917165336957.MXBW17198@cdptpa-omta04.mail.rr.com> I think we may be mixing general "rule of thumb" with specific application here. If I recall past discussions correctly, the Spit 1300 in particular had a problem with spinning a rod bearing (#3 ?) for no obvious reason at high rpm (way above original redline). Running extra-high oil pressure was the workaround Kas found for that problem, on that particular engine. Even if it led to other problems, like rapid wear or power wasted in the pump; the most important thing when racing is to finish the race (not be "Beaten by Equipment"). Or maybe I've got that tangled, as the 1500 also had oiling problems. Anyway, my point is that it is a mistake to take advice given for a specific engine and assume it applies to all engines. Also, racing modifications frequently don't translate well to the street. You can get away with a lot in an engine that gets torn down every 100 miles or less; but that gets kind of tedious on the street. Randall From nafzigerg at yahoo.com Thu Sep 17 11:25:52 2009 From: nafzigerg at yahoo.com (Gary Nafziger) Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 10:25:52 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [TR] adjusting valves hot Message-ID: <215825.46571.qm@web59416.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> I sometimes see mention made of setting valves when hot. I'm curious about why this might be preferable to setting them cold. And what is the differance between measurements........that is...............how much would metal expand or contract when hot or cold. Or how would my valve lash of ..013 cold......compare to valve lash of .016 hot? just wondering gary n. From brad.kahler at 141.com Thu Sep 17 12:27:58 2009 From: brad.kahler at 141.com (Brad Kahler) Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 18:27:58 GMT Subject: [TR] Oil Pressure Message-ID: <200909171227432.SM03896@[166.70.182.42]> Randall, For the most part you're correct in your assumptions. At the time we were talking about race engines in general, all race engines (this conversation was a while back and I was under pressure at the time so take what I say with a grain of salt!). I'm by no means advocating people should increase their oil pressure to a high number especially on their street cars. The point I was trying to make is that high oil pressure is not necessarily a bad thing for an engine, even a street engine. As for the spit 1300, it is the large journal 1300 (and all 1500) engines that had oiling problems. There is a fix for the oiling problems outlined in one of Kas's later books. Don't remember what it is as right now we still race the small journal engines. To me the biggest worry is when you have a long history on an engine of having certain oil pressure readings at certain speeds. Its when those numbers start to vary (low or high) that you need to start worrying. Just my opinion of course, ymmv. Brad On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 12:53 PM, Randall wrote: I think we may be mixing general "rule of thumb" with specific application here. If I recall past discussions correctly, the Spit 1300 in particular had a problem with spinning a rod bearing (#3 ?) for no obvious reason at high rpm (way above original redline). Running extra-high oil pressure was the workaround Kas found for that problem, on that particular engine. Even if it led to other problems, like rapid wear or power wasted in the pump; the most important thing when racing is to finish the race (not be "Beaten by Equipment"). Or maybe I've got that tangled, as the 1500 also had oiling problems. Anyway, my point is that it is a mistake to take advice given for a specific engine and assume it applies to all engines. Also, racing modifications frequently don't translate well to the street. You can get away with a lot in an engine that gets torn down every 100 miles or less; but that gets kind of tedious on the street. Randall From dkspence at telus.net Thu Sep 17 12:47:28 2009 From: dkspence at telus.net (Don Spence) Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 12:47:28 -0600 Subject: [TR] Need a TR4A frame In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7BADAE1A-B287-4E45-9C78-A8811786CEB7@telus.net> You probably know this by now, (been on holliday) The Solid axle cars used the same frame as IRS minus the rear spring towers and crossover. On 8-Sep-09, at 12:00 PM, triumphs-request at autox.team.net wrote: > From: "Chuck White" > Date: September 8, 2009 10:55:23 AM MDT (CA) > To: "'Irv Korey'" > Cc: triumphs at autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [TR] Need a TR4A frame > > > Irv, > > Thanks. Paul's car is the solid axle TR4A. However, I've been > told the > frames for both the solid axle and IRS TR4A are the same. The > difference is > between the TR4 and TR4A frames. > > Chuck > > _____ From jimmuller at rcn.com Thu Sep 17 16:46:48 2009 From: jimmuller at rcn.com (Jim Muller) Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 18:46:48 -0400 Subject: [TR] adjusting valves hot In-Reply-To: <215825.46571.qm@web59416.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4AB28418.7960.54EAA070@localhost> On 17 Sep 2009 at 10:25, Gary Nafziger wrote: > Or how would my valve lash of ..013 > cold......compare to valve lash of .016 hot? Good question. (What engine calls for .013 cold?) One can always just try it, set them cold then go for a spin and measure them. I'd try it myself except for two things. I'm on the Maine coast and rather far from my little TRs, and I'd worry about burning my fingers. There are more reasons for setting them cold than just the target spec! -- Jim Muller jimmuller at rcn.com '80 Spitfire, '70 GT6+ From piggerp at comcast.net Thu Sep 17 17:06:41 2009 From: piggerp at comcast.net (Spam Account) Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 17:06:41 -0600 Subject: [TR] TR4A shift boot In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6F29BDC4420B456BBDC343584CB3805F@Porter> I bought an upper and lower shift boot from Moss (680-720 and 680-730) that is listed for my 67 TR4A. Is there a trick to putting the lower and upper boot through the padded shift cover, or do I need to remove the padded dash support? I've replaced the upper boot many times and they rip after a year or two. Is the rubber that bad? Has anyone used the leather alternative to the rubber boot? Jeffrey Porter 67 TR4A with no shift boot. From mhooper at digiscreen.ca Thu Sep 17 17:18:53 2009 From: mhooper at digiscreen.ca (Mark Hooper) Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 19:18:53 -0400 Subject: [TR] Off-topic -deadly floormats? In-Reply-To: <215825.46571.qm@web59416.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I see the following on my local news site: Torrance-based Toyota Motor Sales USA announced Monday that dealers must make sure all Lexus and Toyota vehicles have the proper mats. California Highway Patrol Officer Mark Saylor, his wife, 13-year-old daughter and an in-law died Aug. 28 when a Lexus ES 350 loaned by a local dealer crashed. Witnesses say the car was doing more than 120 mph when it went off an embankment. The family's screams were heard in a 911 call. A preliminary investigation found that their loaner car had a mat from another Lexus model that may have caused the accelerator to get stuck. Can somebody tell me if Lexus's are normally wired so that one cannot simply turn off the ignition or stamp on the brakes if the engine gets stuck on full? I mean the people in the car had the time to make a 911 call. Surely a police officer would have had the presence of mind to just turn off the car or shift to neutral or brake. Sounds like a rather weird situation to have such a dreadful outcome. Mark 1972 TR6 From Jim.Holmgren at corp.aol.com Thu Sep 17 17:38:44 2009 From: Jim.Holmgren at corp.aol.com (Jim Holmgren) Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 19:38:44 -0400 Subject: [TR] Off-topic -deadly floormats? In-Reply-To: References: <215825.46571.qm@web59416.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5A1055F3C9314142A922A9FC6AC21A610709CABBA6@BALT-EMAIL.corp.advertising.com> Sounds an awful lot like an Urban Legend. Jim NASS #302 NASS Club Secretary '75 Spitfire 1500 w/OD www.littlebluespitfire.com York, PA The information transmitted in this email is intended only for the person(s) or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you received this email in error, please contact the sender and permanently delete the email from any computer. From jdinnis at gmail.com Thu Sep 17 17:53:11 2009 From: jdinnis at gmail.com (John Innis) Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 18:53:11 -0500 Subject: [TR] Off-topic -deadly floormats? In-Reply-To: References: <215825.46571.qm@web59416.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Ok could he have shifted into neutral and let the blow the motor? I know in the Autocross world we have reminders at every evnet about how to handle a stuck throttle. On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 6:18 PM, Mark Hooper wrote: > I see the following on my local news site: > > Torrance-based Toyota Motor Sales USA announced Monday that dealers must > make sure all Lexus and Toyota vehicles have the proper mats. California > Highway Patrol Officer Mark Saylor, his wife, 13-year-old daughter and > an in-law died Aug. 28 when a Lexus ES 350 loaned by a local dealer > crashed. > > Witnesses say the car was doing more than 120 mph when it went off an > embankment. The family's screams were heard in a 911 call. A preliminary > investigation found that their loaner car had a mat from another Lexus > model that may have caused the accelerator to get stuck. > > > Can somebody tell me if Lexus's are normally wired so that one cannot > simply turn off the ignition or stamp on the brakes if the engine gets > stuck on full? I mean the people in the car had the time to make a 911 > call. Surely a police officer would have had the presence of mind to > just turn off the car or shift to neutral or brake. Sounds like a rather > weird situation to have such a dreadful outcome. > > Mark > 1972 TR6 > _______________________________________________ > > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > This list supported in part by the Vintage Triumph Register > http://www.vtr.org > > > Triumphs at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs > > > http://www.team.net/archive > -- ================================= = Never offend people with style when you = = can offend with substance --- Sam Brown = ================================= From kvacek at ameritech.net Thu Sep 17 18:06:56 2009 From: kvacek at ameritech.net (Karl Vacek) Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 19:06:56 -0500 Subject: [TR] Off-topic -deadly floormats? References: <215825.46571.qm@web59416.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <5A1055F3C9314142A922A9FC6AC21A610709CABBA6@BALT-EMAIL.corp.advertising.com> Message-ID: <12721BF0622849EFAE8B5934139A7D35@KARL> Better tell that to all the news sites that have the story, memorial service announcements, etc. It sure appears to be a real, and recent, event. > Sounds an awful lot like an Urban Legend. > > > Jim > NASS #302 > NASS Club Secretary > '75 Spitfire 1500 w/OD > www.littlebluespitfire.com > York, PA From jdinnis at gmail.com Thu Sep 17 18:20:21 2009 From: jdinnis at gmail.com (John Innis) Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 19:20:21 -0500 Subject: [TR] Off-topic -deadly floormats? In-Reply-To: <5A1055F3C9314142A922A9FC6AC21A610709CABBA6@BALT-EMAIL.corp.advertising.com> References: <215825.46571.qm@web59416.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <5A1055F3C9314142A922A9FC6AC21A610709CABBA6@BALT-EMAIL.corp.advertising.com> Message-ID: The news item showed up in USA today, so the accident evidently did happen. And there is a safety bulliten out about these floor mats. There may me more investigation required to detrermine why the driver was not able to stop the car. On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 6:38 PM, Jim Holmgren wrote: > Sounds an awful lot like an Urban Legend. > > > Jim > NASS #302 > NASS Club Secretary > '75 Spitfire 1500 w/OD > www.littlebluespitfire.com > York, PA > > > > The information transmitted in this email is intended only for the person(s) > or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or > privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use > of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or > entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you received this > email in error, please contact the sender and permanently delete the email > from any computer. > _______________________________________________ > > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > This list supported in part by the Vintage Triumph Register > http://www.vtr.org > > > Triumphs at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs > > > http://www.team.net/archive > -- ================================= = Never offend people with style when you = = can offend with substance --- Sam Brown = ================================= From KingsCreekTrees at aol.com Thu Sep 17 18:24:38 2009 From: KingsCreekTrees at aol.com (KingsCreekTrees at aol.com) Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 20:24:38 EDT Subject: [TR] Off-topic -deadly floormats? Message-ID: That car will have a rev limiter on it; so the motor would not have blown by putting it in neutral! Still, that might not be the kind of thing going through one's mind when the throttle's stuck wide open, I guess. Tim Dyer, Proprietor Kings Creek Trees and Ornamentals 427 Kings Creek Road, RR3 Ashton, Ontario, K0A 1B0, Canada Phone/fax: 613 253 4126 Website: _www.kingscreektrees.com_ (http://www.kingscreektrees.com/) Proud member of Landscape Ontario (the Ontario association of Horticulture Industry professionals), the Canadian Nursery Landscape Association and Christmas Tree Farmers of Ontario From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Thu Sep 17 18:31:59 2009 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 17:31:59 -0700 Subject: [TR] Off-topic -deadly floormats? In-Reply-To: References: <215825.46571.qm@web59416.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8E6F3AA483E34C3592A75F7D462DD134@jdnet.deere.com> > Can somebody tell me if Lexus's are normally wired so that one cannot > simply turn off the ignition or stamp on the brakes if the engine gets > stuck on full? The report I just read said the driver reported that the brakes didn't work. He apparently dropped the phone before trying the 911 dispatcher's suggestion of turning the ignition off. Whole thing does sound rather unbelievable; but I suppose that even a CHP officer can panic when a strange car (it was a loaner) apparently turns on them. They apparently don't know for certain that the floor mats were the problem; but Toyota has warned about mats interfering with pedals before so they apparently chose to repeat that warning. Why does this remind me of the Audi "sudden acceleration" problem? -- Randall From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Thu Sep 17 18:41:11 2009 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 17:41:11 -0700 Subject: [TR] adjusting valves hot In-Reply-To: <4AB28418.7960.54EAA070@localhost> References: <215825.46571.qm@web59416.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <4AB28418.7960.54EAA070@localhost> Message-ID: > (What engine calls for .013 cold?) Early TR2 did, I believe. There was a component change to reduce it to .010" cold. Some performance cams also call for .013" I think. > There are more reasons for setting them cold than just the > target spec! The other problem I've always wondered about is "How hot is hot?" The whole idea here is that various components get hot differently than others (especially the exhaust valve stems and heads). So, if you shut the engine off and set the first valve within (say) a minute, and then complete the job within 10 minutes, aren't the first valves you set going to wind up differently than the last? -- Randall From pcaffrey at ymail.com Thu Sep 17 18:23:45 2009 From: pcaffrey at ymail.com (P Caffrey) Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 17:23:45 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [TR] Off-topic -deadly floormats? In-Reply-To: <5A1055F3C9314142A922A9FC6AC21A610709CABBA6@BALT-EMAIL.corp.advertising.com> References: <215825.46571.qm@web59416.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <5A1055F3C9314142A922A9FC6AC21A610709CABBA6@BALT-EMAIL.corp.advertising.com> Message-ID: <268268.63361.qm@web59710.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Seems neutral would be easy to find, engine may go but so what. Plus, that car must have great brakes. Plus, a police officer is behind the wheel with driving experience under pressure, presumably....Does sound like an Urban Legend. ________________________________ From: Jim Holmgren To: Mark Hooper ; "triumphs at autox.team.net" Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 4:38:44 PM Subject: Re: [TR] Off-topic -deadly floormats? Sounds an awful lot like an Urban Legend. Jim NASS #302 NASS Club Secretary '75 Spitfire 1500 w/OD www.littlebluespitfire.com York, PA The information transmitted in this email is intended only for the person(s) or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you received this email in error, please contact the sender and permanently delete the email from any computer. _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team..net/donate.html This list supported in part by the Vintage Triumph Register http://www.vtr.org Triumphs at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs http://www.team.net/archive From mdporter at dfn.com Thu Sep 17 19:22:23 2009 From: mdporter at dfn.com (Michael Porter) Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 19:22:23 -0600 Subject: [TR] adjusting valves hot In-Reply-To: <215825.46571.qm@web59416.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> References: <215825.46571.qm@web59416.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4AB2E0CF.40902@dfn.com> Gary Nafziger wrote: > I sometimes see mention made of setting valves when hot. I'm curious about > why this might be preferable to setting them cold. And what is the differance > between measurements........that is...............how much would metal expand > or contract when hot or cold. Or how would my valve lash of ..013 > cold......compare to valve lash of .016 hot? > > just wondering > > M'self, I think this practice persists from the early days of hot rods and hydraulic lifters. Then, it was fairly common to see V-8 owners cutting a big slot in a spare valve cover to minimize oil splash while adjusting lash when hot. I suspect this was necessary because cam grinding wasn't quite as precise as it is today, nor was the manufacture of the lifters, so the lashes necessary varied. For a solid lifter engine, the practice of doing valve lash when hot is going to unnecessarily introduce error, since the engine is cooling while the job is being done (as Randall previously suggested). As for the change in settings between hot and cold, it depends a great deal on the construction of the engine and the geometry of the valve train (particularly with regard to the size of the rocker and the length of the pushrod, and the variation in temperature of the various components). For example, in a typical all-cast iron/steel engine such as a Triumph, lash might only change a few thousandths. In an air-cooled VW, however, a cold lash of 0.006" translates to 0.016" when fully warm. Cheers. -- Michael Porter Roswell, NM Never let anyone drive you crazy when you know it's within walking distance.... From acekraut11 at aol.com Thu Sep 17 19:24:30 2009 From: acekraut11 at aol.com (acekraut11 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 21:24:30 -0400 Subject: [TR] Off-topic -deadly floormats? In-Reply-To: <268268.63361.qm@web59710.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> References: <215825.46571.qm@web59416.mail.ac4.yahoo.com><5A1055F3C9314142A922A9FC6AC21A610709CABBA6@BALT-EMAIL.corp.advertising.com> <268268.63361.qm@web59710.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8CC0615E804057D-498C-8C00@webmail-d072.sysops.aol.com> Well, in this case it is a true story.? A quick search of google news for stuck accelerator produced 228 news stories.? Here is one of them, with a picture of the crash site: http://www.momlogic.com/2009/09/911_call_released_in_stuck_accelerator_crash.php -----Original Message----- From: P Caffrey To: Jim Holmgren ; Mark Hooper ; triumphs at autox.team.net Sent: Thu, Sep 17, 2009 8:23 pm Subject: Re: [TR] Off-topic -deadly floormats? Seems neutral would be easy to find, engine may go but so what. Plus, that car must have great brakes. Plus, a police officer is behind the wheel with driving experience under pressure, presumably....Does sound like an Urban Legend. ________________________________ From: Jim Holmgren To: Mark Hooper ; "triumphs at autox.team.net" Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 4:38:44 PM Subject: Re: [TR] Off-topic -deadly floormats? Sounds an awful lot like an Urban Legend. Jim NASS #302 NASS Club Secretary '75 Spitfire 1500 w/OD www.littlebluespitfire.com York, PA The information transmitted in this email is intended only for the person(s) or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you received this email in error, please contact the sender and permanently delete the email from any computer. _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team..net/donate.html This list supported in part by the Vintage Triumph Register http://www.vtr.org Triumphs at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs http://www.team.net/archive This list supported in part by the Vintage Triumph Register http://www.vtr.org Triumphs at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs http://www.team.net/archive From tr6parts at charter.net Thu Sep 17 19:29:05 2009 From: tr6parts at charter.net (Al Salvatore) Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 21:29:05 -0400 Subject: [TR] tr6 clutch problem Message-ID: <966EA55EEEB74E37B9D41CC36399950C@Alan> On my tr6 restoration project, the motor was rebuilt and runs fine. I installed a forenza alloy flywheel. put a new throw out bearing and sleeve. I reused a Luk pressure plate and clutch disc that I had in my other 6 that had come out when I had clutch engagement problems. That problem was cured when we took out the clutch and found that the sleeve was for a TR4, Previous to that the clutch fork had cracked. I put back in a used bork & beck. So I figured it would be ok to reuse the Luk pressure plate and disc. I guess I figured wrong , right now I am thinking the pressure plate was damaged in the other episode. unless theres something else to look at. Can't put it in gear and theres plenty of movement with the slave cylinder. Al From jimmuller at rcn.com Thu Sep 17 19:34:51 2009 From: jimmuller at rcn.com (Jim Muller) Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 21:34:51 -0400 Subject: [TR] Off-topic -deadly floormats? In-Reply-To: <8E6F3AA483E34C3592A75F7D462DD134@jdnet.deere.com> References: Message-ID: <4AB2AB7B.23537.55847C9F@localhost> On 17 Sep 2009 at 17:31, Randall wrote: > Why does this remind me of the Audi "sudden acceleration" problem? Which is exactly what I was going to ask. I believe they called it "unintended acceleration", first proposed by one of the "consumers' evaluation" magazines, as I recall. The car-mag writers then all started singing the praises of intended acceleration. I was a grad student with someone who swore it happened to his father who apparently smashed his car into the back wall of his garage. Ummmmm... I never could quite believe the story, not that someone wouldn't hit the back of the garage but that it wasn't just a case of hitting the wrong pedal. It doesn't take much time to go 10ft when you hit the loud pedal. In tests, meaning the driver knows reaction time is being tested, reaction time pedal to pedal is about 0.4sec. 17mph will cover 10ft in 0.4sec. If the driver is startled or the wall is closer, e.g. only 3ft, and the car is "energetic", it is quite possible. For what it's worth, the Spitfire and GT6 pedals are close together enough that wide shoes and sloppy footwork can result in the gas pedal going down accidentally during breaking. Jim Muller jimmuller at rcn.com From pcaffrey at ymail.com Thu Sep 17 19:45:09 2009 From: pcaffrey at ymail.com (P Caffrey) Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 18:45:09 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [TR] Off-topic -deadly floormats? Message-ID: <372028.46467.qm@web59708.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> I never doubted the veracity of the story--that the accident occurred. The "Urban Legend" for me was the explanation for the cause. That Toyota Motor Sales made an announcement is not surprising. It's the first thing, I imagine, a legal team would tell a corporation in such a case....In the end, lives were lost, so the news is terrible for this family. Pat TR4A '67 --- On Fri, 9/18/09, acekraut11 at aol.com wrote: >From: acekraut11 at aol.com >Subject: Re: [TR] Off-topic -deadly floormats? >To: pcaffrey at ymail.com, Jim.Holmgren at corp.aol.com, mhooper at digiscreen.ca, triumphs at autox.team.net >Date: Friday, September 18, 2009, 1:24 AM > > >Well, in this case it is a true story. A quick search of google news for stuck accelerator produced 228 news stories. Here is one of them, with a picture of the crash site: > >http://www.momlogic.com/2009/09/911_call_released_in_stuck_accelerator_crash .php > > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: P Caffrey >To: Jim Holmgren ; Mark Hooper ; triumphs at autox.team.net >Sent: Thu, Sep 17, 2009 8:23 pm >Subject: Re: [TR] Off-topic -deadly floormats? > > >Seems neutral would be easy to find, engine may go but so what. Plus, that > car must have great brakes. Plus, a police officer is behind the wheel with > driving experience under pressure, presumably....Does sound like an Urban > Legend. > > > > > ________________________________ > From: Jim Holmgren > > To: Mark Hooper ; > "triumphs at autox.team.net" > Sent: Thursday, September > 17, 2009 4:38:44 PM > Subject: Re: [TR] Off-topic -deadly floormats? > > Sounds an > awful lot like an Urban Legend. > > > Jim > NASS #302 > NASS Club Secretary > '75 > Spitfire 1500 w/OD > www.littlebluespitfire.com > York, PA > > > > The information > transmitted in this email is intended only for the person(s) > or entity to > which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or > privileged material. > Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use > of, or taking of any > action in reliance upon, this information by persons or > entities other than > the intended recipient is prohibited. If you received this > email in error, > please contact the sender and permanently delete the email > from any computer. > _______________________________________________ > > Support Team.Net > http://www.team..net/donate.html > > This list supported in part by the Vintage > Triumph Register > http://www.vtr.org/ > > > Triumphs at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs > > > http://www.team.net/archive > _______________________________________________ > > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > This list supported in part by the Vintage Triumph Register > http://www.vtr.org > > > Triumphs at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs > > > http://www.team.net/archive From mark at bradakis.com Thu Sep 17 19:58:49 2009 From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J Bradakis) Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 19:58:49 -0600 Subject: [TR] Oil Pressure In-Reply-To: <20090917165336957.MXBW17198@cdptpa-omta04.mail.rr.com> References: <20090917165336957.MXBW17198@cdptpa-omta04.mail.rr.com> Message-ID: <4AB2E959.7070204@bradakis.com> > If I recall past discussions correctly, the Spit 1300 in particular had a > problem with spinning a rod bearing (#3 ?) for no obvious reason at high rpm > (way above original redline). \Are you talking about the Spitfire 1300 or the Spitfire 1300? Okay, I'll explain. The early 1296 found in Mark 3 Spits was based on the original 1147 motor, which was based on the 9xx motor in the Herald, etc. The Mark 4 1296 and the subsequent Spitfiree 1500 was a completely new design and block casting, using larger bearing crank journals and other differences with a modest amount of sharing bits with the 2.5 liter TR6 motor and Mark 2/3 GT6 2 liter engine. The later 1296/1500 engines did indeed have oiling issues. Read Kas' books, the problems are not insurmountable. mjb. From jimbpps at cox.net Sun Sep 13 20:26:03 2009 From: jimbpps at cox.net (jimbpps at cox.net) Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2009 22:26:03 -0400 Subject: [TR] My TR Tour, Part 7 Message-ID: <20090913222603.LG2OT.178666.imail@fed1rmwml32> On the 27th of Aug. the local TR club (PTOA) sponsored a driving tour. The tour began in Newberg, OR about 45 miles south of my brothers home, then proceeded west over the Oregon Coast Mountain Range, only about 1800 feet elevation though. On the way west and down from the rest stop (see attached photo) at the summit, we had to all stop and remove a fir tree that had fallen part way across the road. It took about eight of us pulling on the top and upper branches to finally break the tree off enough so the TRs could pas by with out either sliding off into the ditch or having to drive over the top of the tree! A couple of 4-wheel drive pick-ups had driven by, but everyone felt the TRs had too low a ground clearance to try driving over the tree. The tour ended at a brew pub right on the Pacific Ocean shore. Over an excellent lunch and a great brew we watched wet suit clad surfers braving the icy pacific. On Sat. Aug. 29th just about our whole family attended the Hillsboro Air Show. The headliner for the show was the US Air Force Thunderbirds. Due to the low cloud cover the Thunderbirds were unable to fly the higher altitude portion of their program. However, the low altitude portion was awesome!! The other headliner of interest was Robosaurus, the huge car eating machine! I first saw Robosaurus at the Barrett-Jackson Auction in Scottsdale a couple of years ago when it was up for sale, but missed it in operation. It is really great fun to watch in a gross way (see attached photo). With a loud thundering sound track and flames, it completely tore apart a full sized Ford Taurus right in front our seats. WE were seated in one of the VIP tents where my brother-in-law who works with one of the VIP hosts, got us in, along with VIP parking, and lunch! It was a good show and we all enjoyed it emensely! I will tell you all about the All British Field Meet (ABFM) and the Columbia Classic Historic Races in Part 8! Regards, Jim Jim Bauder TR 250, CD47L Scottsdale, AZ (currently visiting in Vancouver, WA) Cell: 480-309-9525 [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of Cars onthe tour-2.JPG] [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of Robosaurus.JPG] [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of Tearing up a Ford Taurus.JPG] From jimbpps at cox.net Tue Sep 15 15:29:26 2009 From: jimbpps at cox.net (jimbpps at cox.net) Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 17:29:26 -0400 Subject: [TR] My TR Tour, Part 8 Message-ID: <20090915172926.6YVWG.209136.imail@fed1rmwml29> The All British Field Meet (ABFM) has been a part of the Portland/Vancouver Pacific Northwest British car scene for 33 years! For many, many years it has been held over the Labor Day weekend at the Portland International Raceway (PIR) and for the last 6 years it has been held in conjunction with The Columbia River classic Historic Races (CRC). And this year the CRC hosted the Kas Kastner Cup Challenge for Racing Triumphs! This perpetual trophy was established by Kas Kastner to honor Triumph race drivers and and to promote Triumph race cars. It has proven to do just that in its 6 years of existence, for details see: http://www.kaskastner.com/kastnercup.html My wife Alice and I have often visited my brother and sister-in-law in Vancouver over Labor Day and several times we have gone to the ABFM car show and really enjoyed seeing all of that British iron, especially the large showing of TRs, on the big grassy field at PIR. On Sept. 4th the Friday before ABFM Randy and I spent about half a day cleaning, waxing, and detailing his Spitfire and my TR250 to prepare for the participant's choice car show on Sat. Unfortunately, it was mostly in vain, as Fri.. night it started to rain and it rained hard most of the night, The next morning when we arrived at the car show, the nice grassy field was pretty muddy but all of the die-hards that did decide to make it, showed their cars as best we could. However the judging, which all of the car show participants were asked to do, was really difficult as the score sheets got very wet by the time we worked through all of the various classes. As the judging wound down, the rain began to slack off a bit and some of the participants were able to comfortably stand around their cars in order to talk to the folks that came out to see the cars. Just like a normal car show, but with mud here and there! I did get to meet a bunch of people that came to the ABFM because of its status in the area. Several people from the TR List some from halfway across the country, a couple of folks that live in the Portland area now but used to live in the SF bay area and were members of the Triumph Travelers Sports Car Club and knew several people that I knew when I was living in Palo Alto. It was great! After lunch (in the rain again), we watched some of the practice for the various CRC classes and also walked around the pits and looked at a lot of really nicely prepared sports cars set up to race! At 4:00 the awards for the car show were handed out by the various marque clubs, Randy took a 1st in his Spitfire and I took home a 3rd for the TR250. At some point in the afternoon we spent quite a bit of time in the pits and talked with several of the Triumph drivers that were there from around the country and were slated drive in the Kastner Cup race on Sunday. We talked quite a long time with Tony Drews, Uncle Jack Drews son, about his car and his racing, and Uncle Jack and of course JonMac's Stag Tour around the country, who's Stag his named Uncle Jack in honor of Tony's dad. Tony is a capitol guy, very open and friendly. We also met Tony Garmey, the owner I believe, and driver of the Peter Brock designed TR250K sports racer. We got to spend some time checking out the car, as it is of course a one-off design, I had seen it once before at either the Portland VTR or a Triumphest, I can't remember exactly when. But that time, it was hard to get close enough to the car to really see it, this time though we could really check it out! There was a lot of discussion by many of the drivers whether they were going to need to run practice and/or race with their rain tires or their racing 'slicks'. The weather couldn't seem to make up its mind and of course Sunday was a real unknown! In one of the TR pits we found Kas Kastner sort of holding court and introduced ourselves, We mentioned that we had enjoyed hearing him speak at Triumphest a couple of times. We also told him we had both enjoyed his recent books. He said his next book was going to be a real treat, but was going to be expensive! He wouldn't say any more about that at that point... We also saw Joe Alexander in the pits and actually we had seen him earlier at the car show venue, he brought his TR powered, special fiberglass bodied, Ambro from his home in the mid-west, Iowa? Anyway I forget but Joe is the inventor of several popular accessories for our TRs, built by his company ARE, and sold through several suppliers. In 2007 Joe and Uncle jack attended Triumphest in Laughlin, NV and a bunch of us that are on the TR List sat around with the two of them and listened to them talk about their racing experience, it was a gas! On Sunday we ran the rally along with 33 other cars. It was advertised as a TSD Rally, but it was actually a 'gimmick' rally, or at least that is what I would call it. It was fun though and it took us over many roads I had never seen, although Randy had been n most all of them. We finished in the alloted time, answered all of the questions, stayed on course, and didn't place! Like I sad it was fun though... We spent the rest of the afternoon watching the historic races including the Kastner Cup Race. What a race that was! There were perhaps 20 cars in the race with Tony Garmey in the 250K starting late for some reason. But when he started to race and he definitely started to race for by the 2nd or 3rd lap, he was in 2nd place behind Tom Kreager in his immaculate #7, TR6. Tony Garmey and Tom Kreager spent the whole race so close together you could almost throw a blanket over the two of them. Sometimes the 250K was in 1st, sometimes the TR6, it was really a great race. There was also a great race going on for 3rd and 4th and 5th! It was really fun to watch. On the last lap, as they exited turn 11, we thought Tony Garmey was going to pass Tom Kreager by the checkered flag, but the TR6 was able to hold off the 250K and win! Tuesday night we went to the Portland Triumph Owners Assoc. (PTOA) meeting. It is held at the Stark St. Pizza where PTOA has held their meeting for some 40 years! PTOA is a big club, 130 some members 230 some cars, they are obviously a successful club. They are also happy to see new people and they welcome guests, even from AZ with open arms! Next weekend, John Macartney arrives. More later, in Part 9! Regards, Jim Jim Bauder TR 250, CD47L Scottsdale, AZ (currently visiting in Vancouver, WA) Cell: 480-309-9525 From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Thu Sep 17 21:52:30 2009 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 20:52:30 -0700 Subject: [TR] Off-topic -deadly floormats? In-Reply-To: <4AB2AB7B.23537.55847C9F@localhost> Message-ID: <20090918035229946.LUUH9613@cdptpa-omta02.mail.rr.com> > For what it's worth, the Spitfire and GT6 pedals are close together > enough that wide shoes and sloppy footwork can result in the gas > pedal going down accidentally during breaking. Yeah, but they didn't have a rash of people claiming that the car moved when they put their foot on the brake. As I recall the remainder of the Audi story, while it was never conclusively proven to be the problem, that particular model did have the brake pedal arranged low enough that, if you put your foot on both the brake and the gas pedal, the car would lurch forward. That is to say, the throttle would open before the brakes applied as your foot descended. Sounded hokey to me too, but after several reported incidents, VW did a recall and installed what amounted to blocks bolted to the brake pedal to bring it up above the gas pedal; and no one reported the problem with the modified cars. Randall From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Thu Sep 17 22:00:05 2009 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 21:00:05 -0700 Subject: [TR] tr6 clutch problem In-Reply-To: <966EA55EEEB74E37B9D41CC36399950C@Alan> Message-ID: <20090918040004047.IABJ17198@cdptpa-omta04.mail.rr.com> > Can't put it in > gear and theres plenty of movement with the slave cylinder. Just a thought, Al, I had a very similar experience when putting my used Fidanza flywheel & clutch into the project TR3. First time in my life I've had a clutch stick, and it was just a few days after installing it. So I shut the engine off, put it in reverse (to back out of the driveway) and held the clutch down (brakes off) while I cranked the motor. The car started moving on the starter, but the clutch let go just about the time the engine fired off. If it hadn't, I would have driven around the block holding the clutch down to see if that worked. Randall From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Thu Sep 17 22:08:44 2009 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 21:08:44 -0700 Subject: [TR] adjusting valves hot In-Reply-To: <4AB2E0CF.40902@dfn.com> Message-ID: <20090918040843540.PSSI26991@cdptpa-omta03.mail.rr.com> > M'self, I think this practice persists from the early days of > hot rods > and hydraulic lifters. Then, it was fairly common to see V-8 owners > cutting a big slot in a spare valve cover to minimize oil > splash while > adjusting lash when hot. I suspect this was necessary because cam > grinding wasn't quite as precise as it is today, nor was the > manufacture > of the lifters, so the lashes necessary varied. I believe there was another reason. Hydraulic lifters have a tendency to 'pump up' and hold the valves open if the engine is run at a high enough rpm to cause valve float. A common workaround "back when" was to adjust for zero lash (or just a little bit of lash) with the lifter fully extended. But they would not reliably extend without the engine running, so the easy solution was to do it with the engine running. I'd have to go dig out the manuals to be certain, but ISTR that the book valve adjustment procedure for my 65 Oldsmobile V8 was to back off the adjustment until the valve lash was audible; and then turn the nut a certain number of turns. The idea being to center the hydraulic lifter in it's range. There were even special clips available to go over the oil holes in the rockers, to reduce the amount of oil thrown around. Randall From pdonnel1 at san.rr.com Thu Sep 17 22:20:17 2009 From: pdonnel1 at san.rr.com (John & Pat Donnelly) Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 21:20:17 -0700 Subject: [TR] Low Oil Pressure and Engine Noises In-Reply-To: <20090917060720122.DFDH9613@cdptpa-omta02.mail.rr.com> References: <000001ca374e$d1d340a0$7579c1e0$@rr.com> <20090917060720122.DFDH9613@cdptpa-omta02.mail.rr.com> Message-ID: <000001ca3817$549e8a80$fddb9f80$@rr.com> As you might recall my adventure began with low oil pressure. The oil pump was thrashed and a new one is going in. The wisdom of the list pushed me to replace the rod and main bearings while I was in the vicinity. Cheap insurance they called it. So I pulled a few rod bearings and the center main, then ordered parts and began replacing the bearings. The rod bearings and center bearing went well. Then I tackled the rear main bearing. So, now I really cry Uncle. There's no way you can drop rear main bearing cap with the engine in the car AND the tranny attached. The reason is the rear crank seal. The flange that attaches to the cap is wider than the bearing cap, so you can't slide it forward far enough for the bolts that retain it to clear the flywheel. I thought about trying to file the sides but there's no space. Remember that I'm doing this underneath the car. If the tranny were pulled back from the block about 3/4" you could drop the rear main cap straight down without restrictions, but that also means pulling the interior apart. Bummer. So I reinstalled the rear main cap with the old bearing still intact. There wasn't much I could do for the felt seal so I think I should buy some stock in Pennsoil to recoup my losses. The crank journals are scored (probably around .002-.004 grooves - the rear was the worst) and is a major culprit of the low oil pressure. I now know I need to R&R the engine when I get back from TFest. Hopefully I can get about 2000 miles from this "band-aided" engine. The saga is far from over. Stay Tuned. Johnnie > -----Original Message----- > From: triumphs-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:triumphs- > bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Randall > Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 11:07 PM > To: triumphs at autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [TR] Low Oil Pressure and Engine Noises > > > How did > > others replace the rear main bearing? > > I've done this 3 or 4 times now, on three different TR3/A motors, and > the > rear main has always come out with some determined wiggling. Maybe I'm > just > lucky. > > If you only need 1/8" more, perhaps you could remove the front thrust > washer > and pry the crankshaft to the rear? > > Randall From terryrs at comcast.net Thu Sep 17 22:34:01 2009 From: terryrs at comcast.net (terryrs at comcast.net) Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 04:34:01 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [TR] Off-topic -deadly floormats? In-Reply-To: <268268.63361.qm@web59710.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <818020516.3485371253248441010.JavaMail.root@sz0059a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> >Seems neutral would be easy to find, engine may go but so what. B Plus, that >car must have great brakes. B Plus, a police officer is behind the wheel with >driving experience under pressure, presumably....Does sound like an Urban >Legend. Not sure I'd like the idea of turning off the engine in that situation.B Wouldn't the power assists to the brakes quit?B From terryrs at comcast.net Thu Sep 17 22:37:16 2009 From: terryrs at comcast.net (terryrs at comcast.net) Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 04:37:16 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [TR] Off-topic -deadly floormats? In-Reply-To: <818020516.3485371253248441010.JavaMail.root@sz0059a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <183117748.3485631253248636534.JavaMail.root@sz0059a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> >>Seems neutral would be easy to find, engine may go but so what. B Plus, that >>car must have great brakes. B Plus, a police officer is behind the wheel with >>driving experience under pressure, presumably....Does sound like an Urban >>Legend. >Not sure I'd like the idea of turning off the engine in that situation.B Wouldn't the power assists to the brakes quit?B Not to mention, if in a driver's panic s/he switched the ignition ALL the way off, the steering locks...sending you into a tree? From mark at bradakis.com Fri Sep 18 00:14:15 2009 From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J Bradakis) Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 00:14:15 -0600 Subject: [TR] Off-topic -deadly floormats? In-Reply-To: References: <215825.46571.qm@web59416.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4AB32537.2070901@bradakis.com> Well, I don't know about the 'deadly' part, but a floor mat did kill my shot at FTD during a VTR autocross. It was at the Boulder convention in 1990? when I had The White Car, a solid axle TR4A. Those who might have been there perhaps remember when John Lye and Bob Bownes did the funkhana in that car, dressed in full regalia. Shiners don't like loud noises. But I digress. The autocross was held on a section of the Mountain View race track. If memory serves me right, the amazing lack of organization when it came to running that event was the main reason that VTR now has an autocross advisor and a set of written rules governing the event. So my turn in line finally comes, I roar off and head to the first turn. A floor mat I had foolishly left in the car slips around and fouls the pedals. It takes me a second or so to recover, and I hit a few cones in the process, ruining what would have been an excellent run based on how it went after that. So it goes. As I recall, FTD was taken by a fellow who misunderstood what an 'optional' slalom was. It means you can start to the left or the right of the initial cones, your option. He assumed it meant you could choose to do the slalom or just roar right past all the cones. Like I said, there were some issues with how that event was run. mjb. ps: 100 AYI - meaningless to all those except the ones who were stuck parading around that track at a REALLY slow pace. From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Fri Sep 18 01:33:09 2009 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 00:33:09 -0700 Subject: [TR] Off-topic -deadly floormats? In-Reply-To: <183117748.3485631253248636534.JavaMail.root@sz0059a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <20090918073308418.SND26357@cdptpa-omta03.mail.rr.com> >Not sure I'd like the idea of turning off the engine in that > situation.B > Wouldn't the power assists to the brakes quit?B Only once the engine stopped turning, which even with an automatic wouldn't happen until below 40 mph or so (assuming he didn't also shift into neutral). Even then, you get one application of the brakes, maybe two, before all the boost is gone. And contrary to popular opinion, you can stop without power assist. Just imagine your life depends on shoving that pedal through the firewall You forgot to mention the power steering ... once again, the car can be steered without the boost, it just takes some serious effort. I have tested these theories, in my 4000lb "flying couch" (aka Buick Roadmaster Estate), on a mountain road. It can be done. > Not to mention, if in a driver's panic s/he switched the > ignition ALL the way > off, the steering locks...sending you into a tree? As opposed to leaving the road at 120 mph, flying 100ft through the air, and winding up in a ball of flames ? I'd take the chance. Randall From mdporter at dfn.com Fri Sep 18 01:45:23 2009 From: mdporter at dfn.com (Michael Porter) Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 01:45:23 -0600 Subject: [TR] Off-topic -deadly floormats? In-Reply-To: <818020516.3485371253248441010.JavaMail.root@sz0059a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> References: <818020516.3485371253248441010.JavaMail.root@sz0059a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <4AB33A93.7080209@dfn.com> terryrs at comcast.net wrote: > Not sure I'd like the idea of turning off the engine in that situation.B > Wouldn't the power assists to the brakes quit?B > Well, one has to consider some simple factors. First, the power assist works as long as there's engine vacuum, so, there would still be some power assist as the engine wound down. Second, the brakes still work, even without assist. Braking just requires more physical effort (something I would think would be in abundance in a frightening situation). Third, the engine horsepower at high rpm and full throttle, combined with the kinetic energy of the car going at that speed, is going to greatly exceed the power of the brakes to slow the car (even if assisted). The fundamental problem in such an instance is that the engine is powerful enough to exceed braking power and to bring the car to dangerous speeds on a typical highway. Therefore, the basic problem to be corrected is engine power. Without correcting that primary problem first, no amount of braking (primarily because of brake fade) fixes the real problem. Cheers. -- Michael Porter Roswell, NM Never let anyone drive you crazy when you know it's within walking distance.... From opposumking at verizon.net Fri Sep 18 03:33:45 2009 From: opposumking at verizon.net (Nolan) Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 05:33:45 -0400 Subject: [TR] Off-topic -deadly floormats? References: Message-ID: <0B1353C0C8804F07B0566B8A15AEB9C9@mde.state.md.us> Some people are just plain incompetent. I've no doubt that the event happened, and I listened to the 911 call. The event happened because of drivers incompetency. Nothing more. He was unable to handle a very common and normal incident in driving. Unfortunately, others in the car died because of it. From Dave1massey at cs.com Fri Sep 18 05:58:31 2009 From: Dave1massey at cs.com (Dave1massey at cs.com) Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 07:58:31 EDT Subject: [TR] Off-topic -deadly floormats? Message-ID: In a message dated 9/18/2009 3:02:38 AM Central Daylight Time, tr3driver at ca.rr.com writes: > >Not to mention, if in a driver's panic s/he switched the > >ignition ALL the way > >off, the steering locks...sending you into a tree? > > As opposed to leaving the road at 120 mph, flying 100ft through the air, > and > winding up in a ball of flames ? I'd take the chance. > Besides, the ignition key is interlocked to the shifter and won't go into the locked position unless the shifter is in Park. Just for that reason. Also, doesn't this model car have the push button? Push it once to start and push it again to stop the engine? How do those work, anyway? I've never driven a Lexus. Dave From Dave1massey at cs.com Fri Sep 18 06:05:38 2009 From: Dave1massey at cs.com (Dave1massey at cs.com) Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 08:05:38 EDT Subject: [TR] Off-topic -deadly floormats? Message-ID: In a message dated 9/18/2009 5:00:55 AM Central Daylight Time, opposumking at verizon.net writes: > The event happened because of drivers incompetency. Nothing more. He > was > unable to handle a very common and normal incident in driving. > Unfortunately, others in the car died because of it. > Makes one wonder what they DO teach at the CHP academy. It also makes one wonder what they teach in Driver's Ed in general. Dave From jimmuller at rcn.com Fri Sep 18 06:32:58 2009 From: jimmuller at rcn.com (Jim Muller) Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 08:32:58 -0400 Subject: [TR] Off-topic -deadly floormats? In-Reply-To: <818020516.3485371253248441010.JavaMail.root@sz0059a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> References: <268268.63361.qm@web59710.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4AB345BA.30745.57DF0094@localhost> On 18 Sep 2009 at 4:34, terryrs at comcast.net wrote: > Not sure I'd like the idea of turning off the engine in that > situation. Wouldn't the power assists to the brakes quit? On some cars turning off the key far enough might lock the steering. Another significant point no one has mentioned yet is the speed the car was travelling. Did I see it said here that the car was doing 120mph? It takes time to get to 120, depending on the car anything from seconds to 10's of seconds. It makes one wonder how fast they were going when the problem was first "observed", and how much time elapsed while the driver was looking for a solution. -- Jim Muller jimmuller at rcn.com '80 Spitfire, '70 GT6+ From v6spitfireguy at cox.net Fri Sep 18 06:35:44 2009 From: v6spitfireguy at cox.net (v6spitfireguy at cox.net) Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 08:35:44 -0400 Subject: [TR] Off-topic -deadly floormats? Message-ID: <380-220099518123544477@M2W026.mail2web.com> Oh Yes, the accident did happen. I live about 5 miles from where it took place, and drive by the area it happened on a regular basis - The section of freeway is a very long gradual two lane curve, a transition between freeway 125 heading north, turning into freeway 52 heading west. There is no intersection per say as referred to in the 911 call, rather a level section of overpass where Mast blvd goes under that area of the freeway. The on and off ramps are of course at this junction and after the two lane on-ramp to the freeway from Mast, it turns into four lanes that head up a very long (several miles) rather steep hill. Most large trucks are lucky if they are doing 50 when they reach the top - What I can't understand is why. A trained officer that basically, drives all day for a living...given the circumstances selecting neutral, shutting off the motor and risking going off road for a bit early on, at least for me would have been preferable to just riding the brakes then flying off the edge ( after colliding with another vehicle first) and crashing as is apparently what happened - But I never want to find out what I would really do -- According to witnesses, the wheels were on fire just before it went over the edge indicating that he had probably been riding the brakes for a while - Still a terrible tragedy. The irony in my opinion is ,had this happened when the freeway was packed, which it is around rush hour, it probably wouldn't have happened the way it did, as he would have collided with someone long before the car could have built up speed - Of course, that may have been a cause of even more deaths - who knows - Barry Schwartz - Original Message: ----------------- From: John Innis jdinnis at gmail.com Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 19:20:21 -0500 To: Jim.Holmgren at corp.aol.com, triumphs at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [TR] Off-topic -deadly floormats? The news item showed up in USA today, so the accident evidently did happen. And there is a safety bulliten out about these floor mats. There may me more investigation required to detrermine why the driver was not able to stop the car. On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 6:38 PM, Jim Holmgren wrote: > Sounds an awful lot like an Urban Legend. -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web LIVE  Free email based on Microsoft. Exchange technology - http://link.mail2web.com/LIVE From auprichard at comcast.net Fri Sep 18 06:38:41 2009 From: auprichard at comcast.net (Andrew Uprichard) Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 08:38:41 -0400 Subject: [TR] 15 inch steering wheel In-Reply-To: <20090913205801.773432E05F@bradakis.com> References: <20090913205801.773432E05F@bradakis.com> Message-ID: <4FAA967975214454871DF49F6DC5193E@DCH6RFC1> List: I am installing rack and pinion in my TR3 and will be changing the steering wheel. I have a 15 inch Motolita, black leather rim with three "spokes", each with 3 holes, and a center piece to accommodate the control head (I also have a control head if anyone is interested). Very elegant and used only for a couple of hundred miles. Was going to put it on eBAy, but first wanted to know if there was anyone on the list who would want it. If anyone wants to contact me off-line with an offer, let me know. Andrew Uprichard From acekraut11 at aol.com Fri Sep 18 06:45:14 2009 From: acekraut11 at aol.com (acekraut11 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 08:45:14 -0400 Subject: [TR] Off-topic -deadly floormats? In-Reply-To: <0B1353C0C8804F07B0566B8A15AEB9C9@mde.state.md.us> References: <0B1353C0C8804F07B0566B8A15AEB9C9@mde.state.md.us> Message-ID: <8CC0675005DF579-4078-1CDE7@webmail-m052.sysops.aol.com> Your statement may or may not be true.? I would lean towards agreeing with you but I tend to refrain from making definitive statements without knowing all the facts.? It is easy to say what we all would do in that situation but until in that situation it is hard to know for sure.? One thing for sure is that it was a rental car, so, who really cares what happens to the car physically.? Put it in neutral and let the engine blow, or drop it in reverse for all I would care, if that would stop the car. Aaron -----Original Message----- From: Nolan To: triumphs at autox.team.net Sent: Fri, Sep 18, 2009 5:33 am Subject: Re: [TR] Off-topic -deadly floormats? Some people are just plain incompetent. I've no doubt that the event happened, and I listened to the 911 call.? ? The event happened because of drivers incompetency. Nothing more. He was unable to handle a very common and normal incident in driving. Unfortunately, others in the car died because of it. _______________________________________________? ? Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html? ? This list supported in part by the Vintage Triumph Register? http://www.vtr.org? ? Triumphs at autox.team.net? http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs? ? http://www.team.net/archive? From trglory at verizon.net Fri Sep 18 07:08:21 2009 From: trglory at verizon.net (Joe Laurito) Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 09:08:21 -0400 Subject: [TR] Off-topic -deadly floormats? In-Reply-To: <8CC0615E804057D-498C-8C00@webmail-d072.sysops.aol.com> References: <215825.46571.qm@web59416.mail.ac4.yahoo.com><5A1055F3C9314142A922A9FC6AC21A610709CABBA6@BALT-EMAIL.corp.advertising.com> <268268.63361.qm@web59710.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <8CC0615E804057D-498C-8C00@webmail-d072.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <00e201ca3861$1952cb40$4bf861c0$@net> This reminds me of the floor mats that were in my Z-car. They were about 3/4" thick and very comfortable. The mat had a cutout under the pedal to allow for throttle movement and the pedal tended to get stuck under the edge of the mat. I have to tell you that it is very disconcerting when it happens and you have to make an instantaneous decision. As pretty as they were, the driver's side mat went in the garbage because it was hazardous to my health. Joe -----Original Message----- From: triumphs-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:triumphs-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of acekraut11 at aol.com Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 9:25 PM To: pcaffrey at ymail.com; Jim.Holmgren at corp.aol.com; mhooper at digiscreen.ca; triumphs at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [TR] Off-topic -deadly floormats? Well, in this case it is a true story.? A quick search of google news for stuck accelerator produced 228 news stories.? Here is one of them, with a picture of the crash site: http://www.momlogic.com/2009/09/911_call_released_in_stuck_accelerator_crash .php From tjwakeman at gmail.com Fri Sep 18 08:09:42 2009 From: tjwakeman at gmail.com (TeriAnn J. Wakeman) Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 07:09:42 -0700 Subject: [TR] Off-topic -deadly floormats? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4AB394A6.9090604@gmail.com> >>> Not to mention, if in a driver's panic s/he switched the >>> ignition ALL the way >>> off, the steering locks...sending you into a tree? >>> >> As opposed to leaving the road at 120 mph, flying 100ft through the air, >> and >> winding up in a ball of flames ? I'd take the chance. >> >> > Besides, the ignition key is interlocked to the shifter and won't go into > the locked position unless the shifter is in Park. Just for that reason. > > Also, doesn't this model car have the push button? Push it once to start > and push it again to stop the engine? How do those work, anyway? I've never > driven a Lexus I knew newer cars were more complicated but I never thought about them in terms of them being designed to do you in if you need to do an emergency shut down at speed. Makes me wonder if I could just get in one and be able to drive it without first reading the owners manual. At least push button start I understand since both of my cars have it. But this thread makes me glad that my newest car is a 1961 TR3A. Teriann "While there is tea there is still hope" From thomasb at queensu.ca Fri Sep 18 09:31:30 2009 From: thomasb at queensu.ca (Brian Thomas) Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 11:31:30 -0400 Subject: [TR] TR4 "Sputtering" Message-ID: <0KQ600IK5B4UCT10@mta01.its.queensu.ca> Hi guys, Yesterday, we drove the just under 300 miles to Stowe , Vermont in the TR4A with it "sputtering" just about all the way. Power on the hills was very poor where normally pushing on the accelerator increases the speed easily. Arriving in Vermont, the rear bumper was covered in a blue haze which was not oily. I'm suspecting the condensor has gone bad again. Eleven years ago (same trip), I replaced the condensor and eliminated a similar problem. My TR4A is a very late model with the SU HS6 carbs. Any other ideas before I go shopping at the vendors' shops (in the big tent as it's currently raining)? I'll probably pick up a set of copper ignition wires if I can find them as the carbon ones on the car are probably 12+ years old. Any ideas would be appreciated. Thanks, Brian From thomasb at queensu.ca Fri Sep 18 10:04:19 2009 From: thomasb at queensu.ca (Brian Thomas) Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 12:04:19 -0400 Subject: [TR] TR4 "Sputtering" In-Reply-To: <354a1780909180848t4aab3a43geef1d395cb9d07d8@mail.gmail.com> References: <0KQ600IK5B4UCT10@mta01.its.queensu.ca> <354a1780909180848t4aab3a43geef1d395cb9d07d8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <0KQ600I4WCNMCT30@mta01.its.queensu.ca> Hi Irv, At 11:48 AM 18/09/2009, Irv Korey wrote: >How old are your points? >How old are your plugs? >How old is your cap? >How old is your rotor? > >You've already established that you need plug wires, if your old >ones are 12 years old. > >Was it raining during the drive? If so, you are probably getting >moisture in the ignition somewhere, and the old components won't help. > >Good luck. Thanks for the reply - all components are probably the same vintage 5000 miles and 12+ years. I know, I know, but these things get away from you and it seems like only yesterday I put them in! Trip down was dry so that wasn't a factor. I'll see what the vendors have. Cheers, Brian From spamiam at comcast.net Fri Sep 18 10:35:11 2009 From: spamiam at comcast.net (spamiam at comcast.net) Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 16:35:11 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [TR] TR4 "Sputtering" Message-ID: <969332466.3965381253291711740.JavaMail.root@sz0135a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> Brian, The condenser could certainly be the problem.B Also points, rotor, ignition wires.B B I had BAD luck with carbon core wires on a stock TR4A (and earlier) cap.B The little screws which spear the wires do not make a very good contact with the carbon core and eventually fail (at least in my case they did).B My solution was an MGB push-in style cap and push-in style wires.B That worked REALLY well. Also consider the little flexible wire that runs from the points to the plastic lug on the side of the distributor.B That can fray and fail without appearing to be bad. Fuel flow could be the problem, but something electrical is much more likely. -Tony From tswhitez123 at hotmail.com Fri Sep 18 10:42:48 2009 From: tswhitez123 at hotmail.com (tom white) Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 16:42:48 +0000 Subject: [TR] Off-topic -deadly floormats? In-Reply-To: References: <215825.46571.qm@web59416.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: >Surely a police officer would have had the presence of mind to >just turn off the car or shift to neutral or brake.Too many times in the past I have met or known police officers that have little or no knowledge of common functional remedies to mechanical problems. Also, many have demonstrated little basic knowledge of firearms handling other than required range qualification. I recall one incident where an officer was leaving his loaded duty weapon on top of the TV at home with his children present. Best regards, Tom _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail: Free, trusted and rich email service. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/171222984/direct/01/ From zoboherald at aol.com Fri Sep 18 10:52:28 2009 From: zoboherald at aol.com (Andrew Mace) Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 12:52:28 -0400 Subject: [TR] TR4 "Sputtering" In-Reply-To: <0KQ600IK5B4UCT10@mta01.its.queensu.ca> References: <0KQ600IK5B4UCT10@mta01.its.queensu.ca> Message-ID: <8CC069789AFD187-8A4-20E58@webmail-m018.sysops.aol.com> -----Original Message----- From: Brian Thomas Hi guys,? ? Yesterday, we drove the just under 300 miles to Stowe , Vermont in the TR4A with it "sputtering" just about all the way. Power on the hills was very poor where normally pushing on the accelerator increases the speed easily. Arriving in Vermont, the rear bumper was covered in a blue haze which was not oily. ... ? Any ideas would be appreciated. ==AM== Inline fuel filter plugging up, or dirt in the float bowls or elsewhere? Certainly, ignition is where I usually look first for such problems, but that would be the second place I'd look. I don't know about bad 11-year-old plug wires, but I've got some original 45-year-old plug wires that still work pretty darned well. But then, "they don't make 'em like they used to...." :-) ? --Andy Mace *Mrs Irrelevant: Oh, is it a jet? *Man: Well, no ... It's not so much of a jet, it's more your, er, Triumph Herald engine with wings. -- Cut-price Airlines Sketch, Monty Python's Flying Circus (22) Triumph 10 / Herald / Sports 6 vehicle consultant, The Vintage Triumph Register: http://www.vtr.org Check out the North American Triumph Sports 6 (Vitesse 6) and Triumph Herald Database: http://triumph-herald.usww.team.net/archive? From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Fri Sep 18 10:54:03 2009 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 09:54:03 -0700 Subject: [TR] Off-topic -deadly floormats? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > It also makes one > wonder what they teach in Driver's Ed in general. Oddly enough, I asked a friend's daughter about that last year. She had just gotten her driver's license after completing a fairly expensive driving course. While it's possible that it was discussed and she was not paying attention; she claimed that they had only discussed mundane things like skidding; and essentially nothing of what to do in less common emergency situations like brake failure, stuck throttle or even a flat tire! No mention of those things in "traffic school" either. I was curious about the topic because of the many deaths attributed to tire failure in recent years. Apparently a large portion of the driving public has no idea what to do with a blowout, even when they aren't panicking. -- Randall From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Fri Sep 18 11:11:04 2009 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 10:11:04 -0700 Subject: [TR] Off-topic -deadly floormats? In-Reply-To: <4AB33A93.7080209@dfn.com> References: <818020516.3485371253248441010.JavaMail.root@sz0059a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> <4AB33A93.7080209@dfn.com> Message-ID: <7456A1D8657E4D1FB39C08E4215771EB@jdnet.deere.com> > First, the power assist > works as long as there's engine vacuum, so, there would still be some > power assist as the engine wound down. Come to think of it; if the throttle was jammed wide open, there would be no manifold vacuum anyway, and hence no power assist once you'd worked the pedal a few times. > Third, the engine horsepower at high rpm and full throttle, > combined with the kinetic energy of the car going at that speed, is > going to greatly exceed the power of the brakes to slow the car (even if > assisted). Is that true? I guess I've never tried the combination; but I've never driven a car with more power than the brakes could handle for a short time. Even at full throttle in second gear, you can easily control a TR3's speed with the (unassisted) brakes. On my Audi, that was the recommended procedure for breaking in the brake pads. Maybe there is a reason Toyota was so quick to blame the floor mats. If word gets out that a powerful engine is dangerous, it would really kill the Lexus market. -- Randall From januaryw at gmail.com Fri Sep 18 11:36:35 2009 From: januaryw at gmail.com (January Williams) Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 10:36:35 -0700 Subject: [TR] TR4A shift boot Message-ID: <5098defe0909181036g4d44a6f3j95e4a51dad85027e@mail.gmail.com> I bought an upper and lower shift boot from Moss (680-720 and 680-730) that is listed for my 67 TR4A. Is there a trick to putting the lower and upper boot through the padded shift cover, or do I need to remove the padded dash support? I've replaced the upper boot many times and they rip after a year or two. Is the rubber that bad? Has anyone used the leather alternative to the rubber boot? Jeffrey Porter 67 TR4A with no shift boot. ============================== I've always used the rubber TR4 boot. I ordered one by accident years ago instead of the "correct" fabric/pseudo leather one. I just tuck it under the dash support hole which works out fine. And the rubber ones only last a couple of years, so I just keep replacing them. It would be nice to have a real leather one available. January Williams 66 TR4A CTC74217 LO Salem, Oregon (but heading to Maine for vacation) From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Fri Sep 18 11:42:46 2009 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 10:42:46 -0700 Subject: [TR] TR4 "Sputtering" In-Reply-To: <969332466.3965381253291711740.JavaMail.root@sz0135a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> References: <969332466.3965381253291711740.JavaMail.root@sz0135a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <8F1646522444418EB688565EC8FC8F34@jdnet.deere.com> > The little screws which spear the wires do not make a very good > contact > with the carbon core and eventually fail I agree; first place I'd look. A simple test, worth doing at every tune-up IMO, is to use your DMM to measure the resistance from the terminal inside the cap to the connector for the spark plug (cap & wires removed from the car, obviously). If you do find a bad wire, best to replace the rotor as well. A bad wire puts extra electrical stress on the rotor, and a carbon track is virtually impossible to see. -- Randall From mathews at uga.edu Fri Sep 18 12:06:54 2009 From: mathews at uga.edu (Doug Mathews) Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 14:06:54 -0400 Subject: [TR] Off-topic -deadly floormats? In-Reply-To: <4AB394A6.9090604@gmail.com> References: <4AB394A6.9090604@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4AB3CC3E.8010404@uga.edu> A 2008 Infinity owner's manual(s) is about 4" thick when stacked together....the average person is not going to take the time to read the whole thing, but hey, how many folks read the instructions anyway. Just show me how to start it and off we go! They do have a "quick" 4-5 page version so they do not irritate the new owner who just wants to drive it. Doug TeriAnn J. Wakeman wrote: > Makes me wonder if I could just get in one and be able to drive it > without first reading the owners manual. At least push button start I > understand since both of my cars have it. But this thread makes me > glad that my newest car is a 1961 TR3A. From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Fri Sep 18 12:07:24 2009 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 11:07:24 -0700 Subject: [TR] TR4A shift boot In-Reply-To: <5098defe0909181036g4d44a6f3j95e4a51dad85027e@mail.gmail.com> References: <5098defe0909181036g4d44a6f3j95e4a51dad85027e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <347D3B2C2E8F475998A72B2BF29555BB@jdnet.deere.com> > It would be nice to have a real leather one available. You might want to talk to the folks at Wheelskins and see if they can make you one, or if their 'universal fit' boot would work. http://www.wheelskins.com/shift_boots2.php -- Randall From mathews at uga.edu Fri Sep 18 12:12:11 2009 From: mathews at uga.edu (Doug Mathews) Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 14:12:11 -0400 Subject: [TR] Off-topic -deadly floormats? In-Reply-To: <7456A1D8657E4D1FB39C08E4215771EB@jdnet.deere.com> References: <818020516.3485371253248441010.JavaMail.root@sz0059a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> <4AB33A93.7080209@dfn.com> <7456A1D8657E4D1FB39C08E4215771EB@jdnet.deere.com> Message-ID: <4AB3CD7B.3060409@uga.edu> I drove a Chevy (rented) some years ago and if I put the brakes on (at stop) and pressed on the gas, the car would move. I did not think that was such a hot arrangement. Don't ask why I was doing that...I was not checking out stall speed or dragging.....probably bored at a light! Doug Randall wrote: > > Is that true? I guess I've never tried the combination; but I've never > driven a car with more power than the brakes could handle for a short time. > Even at full throttle in second gear, you can easily control a TR3's speed > with the (unassisted) brakes. On my Audi, that was the recommended > procedure for breaking in the brake pads. From anabil007 at comcast.net Fri Sep 18 16:16:26 2009 From: anabil007 at comcast.net (Bill) Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 15:16:26 -0700 Subject: [TR] Off-topic -deadly floormats? In-Reply-To: References: <215825.46571.qm@web59416.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: For what it is worth, I drive a 2009 Toyota Venza, which has the same remote key lock/start/stop key as the Lexus ... To start you simply have the key in your pocket, step on the brake, START/STOP turns green, push, car starts. This morning I started the car and drove down the road, pushed the START/STOP ... nothing, stepped on brake, pushed ... nothing. However I could easily slip the transmission to neutral. Granted I was not going 120, closer to 20, but it would indeed go to neutral. > >Surely a police officer would have had the presence of mind to >>just turn off the car or shift to neutral or brake.Too many times in the past >I have met or known police officers that have little or no knowledge of common >functional remedies to mechanical problems. Also, many have demonstrated >little basic knowledge of firearms handling other than required range >qualification. I recall one incident where an officer was leaving his loaded >duty weapon on top of the TV at home with his children present. > >Best regards, > >Tom -- "Thinking is the hardest work there is. That's why so few people undertake it." - Henry Ford Bill Pugh anabil007 at comcast.net Wallace, CA From tr6parts at charter.net Fri Sep 18 16:39:11 2009 From: tr6parts at charter.net (Al Salvatore) Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 18:39:11 -0400 Subject: [TR] [6pack] tr6 clutch problem References: Message-ID: Thanks to all for the responses. It took me and my friend Mike about two hours to pull the tranny out and replace the clutch and pressure plate. The Problem must have been in the pressure plate. Everything was originally installed properly. Thanks Al Salvatore From mkearns2 at gmail.com Fri Sep 18 16:47:23 2009 From: mkearns2 at gmail.com (Mark Kearns) Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 15:47:23 -0700 Subject: [TR] Off-topic -deadly floormats Message-ID: I also live near the site of the accident. According to the local news accounts, that particular model has a ignition button that must be depressed for more than three seconds to shut the engine off, not easy to do, or know of, in a strange car at 120 MPH. Why not neutral, no clue. There was an article in the San Diego Union Tribune (a rag of a paper btw) from the head of some auto safety organization who insisted that the floor mats were not the real cause. According to him the ignition systems have become so complex that electromagnetic interference can cause these types of occurrences. Since that article came out there have been many accounts from people reporting unexplained short term bursts of acceleration. It there is any truth to this, (and not to be a conspiracy theorist), it's probably cheaper to throw a couple million at next of kin and replace some carpet, than to reconfigure the ignition systems of every car sold. From KingsCreekTrees at aol.com Fri Sep 18 16:47:59 2009 From: KingsCreekTrees at aol.com (KingsCreekTrees at aol.com) Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 18:47:59 EDT Subject: [TR] Off-topic -deadly floormats? Message-ID: Would a police officer have the prescence of mind to do the right thing? I know a police officer who has just retired after 29 years of service. He has never had any form of driving instruction, nor participated in any form of driving course. Unlike in Europe and other Continents, I believe police forces in North America are trained only to deal with enforcing the law. Driving with greater skill than other road users is not part of the North American police ethos. That's not criticism by any means, just an observation. I worked with police forces in the UK for some years while working for a car manufacturer that was selling them their pursuit cars. Their standard of driving was incredible. With this in mind, I would not expect a North American police officer to have better emergency reaction skills, when operating a vehicle, than other members of the public. Again, not criticism; just an observation. Tim Dyer, Proprietor Kings Creek Trees and Ornamentals 427 Kings Creek Road, RR3 Ashton, Ontario, K0A 1B0, Canada Phone/fax: 613 253 4126 Website: _www.kingscreektrees.com_ (http://www.kingscreektrees.com/) Proud member of Landscape Ontario (the Ontario association of Horticulture Industry professionals), the Canadian Nursery Landscape Association and Christmas Tree Farmers of Ontario From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Fri Sep 18 16:56:47 2009 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 15:56:47 -0700 Subject: [TR] Off-topic -deadly floormats? In-Reply-To: References: <215825.46571.qm@web59416.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: > This morning I started the car and drove down the road, pushed the > START/STOP ... nothing, stepped on brake, pushed ... nothing. So indeed, they have made a car that you cannot turn off when something goes wrong. And this guy was given one as a loaner (so possibly not familiar with the system), and something went wrong. Somehow, I can see getting flustered over a 'key' that doesn't do anything; and not thinking of shifting to neutral. And who knows, there may be a 'safety' interlock on that as well, that won't let you shift when doing over say, 50 mph. -- Randall From tr6parts at charter.net Fri Sep 18 17:39:22 2009 From: tr6parts at charter.net (Al Salvatore) Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 19:39:22 -0400 Subject: [TR] TR4A shift boot References: <5098defe0909181036g4d44a6f3j95e4a51dad85027e@mail.gmail.com> <347D3B2C2E8F475998A72B2BF29555BB@jdnet.deere.com> Message-ID: I sell real leather boots, they are actually for TR6, but will also fit the TR4. It does not replace the rubber boot , but fits over it, like on the TR6. Ebay item 180408518096. Or pictures on photobucket. Sorry for the promotion. Al http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg107/6parts/gatorsnewcolors001.jpg From mathews at uga.edu Fri Sep 18 18:05:00 2009 From: mathews at uga.edu (Doug Mathews) Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 20:05:00 -0400 Subject: [TR] Off-topic -deadly floormats? In-Reply-To: References: <215825.46571.qm@web59416.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4AB4202C.8080601@uga.edu> Here's what the Infinity does.... "*Do not operate the push-button ignition switch while driving the vehicle except in an emergency. (The engine will stop when the ignition switch is pushed 3 consecutive times or the ignition switch is pushed and held for more than 2 seconds.) If the engine stops while the vehicle is being driven, this could lead to a crash and serious injury." *I'm presuming they "crash..." would be as a result of all thats been said...loss of easy steering and braking...but it beats going over a cliff. Doug Randall wrote: > > And who knows, there may be a 'safety' interlock on that as well, that won't > let you shift when doing over say, 50 mph. > > -- Randall From pcaffrey at ymail.com Fri Sep 18 18:37:24 2009 From: pcaffrey at ymail.com (P Caffrey) Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 17:37:24 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [TR] Off-topic -deadly floormats? In-Reply-To: <4AB4202C.8080601@uga.edu> References: <215825.46571.qm@web59416.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <4AB4202C.8080601@uga.edu> Message-ID: <564058.22518.qm@web59713.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> I may have missed something with all the exchanges on this topic, but I'm wondering why a floor mat wedging the gas petal down couldn't just be pulled back toward the driver before reaching high speed. I had a situation where a sloppy floor mat found its way to the gas pedal and the car accelerated. I grabbed the sucker and yanked it back toward the driver's seat....Problem solved....There must be more to this story than floor mats. Pat ________________________________ From: Doug Mathews To: Randall Cc: triumphs at autox.team.net Sent: Friday, September 18, 2009 5:05:00 PM Subject: Re: [TR] Off-topic -deadly floormats? Here's what the Infinity does.... "*Do not operate the push-button ignition switch while driving the vehicle except in an emergency. (The engine will stop when the ignition switch is pushed 3 consecutive times or the ignition switch is pushed and held for more than 2 seconds.) If the engine stops while the vehicle is being driven, this could lead to a crash and serious injury." *I'm presuming they "crash..." would be as a result of all thats been said...loss of easy steering and braking...but it beats going over a cliff. Doug Randall wrote: > > And who knows, there may be a 'safety' interlock on that as well, that won't > let you shift when doing over say, 50 mph. > > -- Randall _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html This list supported in part by the Vintage Triumph Register http://www.vtr.org Triumphs at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs http://www.team.net/archive From thomasb at queensu.ca Fri Sep 18 18:57:23 2009 From: thomasb at queensu.ca (Brian Thomas) Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 20:57:23 -0400 Subject: [TR] TR4A Sputtering - Partially Solved Message-ID: <0KQ700ISC1BRQQ00@mta01.its.queensu.ca> Hi guys, Thanks for all the advice. I went "shopping" shortly after I sent the original email as the field is just across the road from the hotel. The usual outside vendors were HIDING in the light rain. I found an inside vendor with the correct condensor and went back to the hotel to install it - absolutely no affect! I then played with the distributor substituting various used point sets and rotors I had in my tool box - again with no affect. Then in a last ditch effort, I subbed in the condensor I took out 11 years ago - mostly to prove that if it operated the same way, I did have a condensor problem and the new condensor was toast, too. Well, that old condensor while not perfect resulted in a much smother idle and almost no sputtering when goosed. I left it in. The replacement condensor while in a near perfect Lucas green box was not shiny aluminum and showed much surface corrosion - probably worse inside! $7 not well spent! The OLD condensor will get me home and then I'll order up a bunch of newer ignition parts - or I may find what I need on the field tomorrow. Cheers, and thanks again. Brian From frede.thomas2 at verizon.net Fri Sep 18 19:19:25 2009 From: frede.thomas2 at verizon.net (FRED E THOMAS) Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 21:19:25 -0400 Subject: [TR] TR4A Sputtering - Partially Solved References: <0KQ700ISC1BRQQ00@mta01.its.queensu.ca> Message-ID: Brian, do yourself a big favor and get a spare ==TOP Plate== mount the components, if this ever happens again just remove two screws and install FT =========================================================================================================== ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Thomas" To: Sent: Friday, September 18, 2009 8:57 PM Subject: [TR] TR4A Sputtering - Partially Solved > Hi guys, > > Thanks for all the advice. > > I went "shopping" shortly after I sent the original email as the > field is just across the road from the hotel. The usual outside > vendors were HIDING in the light rain. I found an inside vendor with > the correct condensor and went back to the hotel to install it - > absolutely no affect! > > I then played with the distributor substituting various used point > sets and rotors I had in my tool box - again with no affect. Then in > a last ditch effort, I subbed in the condensor I took out 11 years > ago - mostly to prove that if it operated the same way, I did have a > condensor problem and the new condensor was toast, too. Well, that > old condensor while not perfect resulted in a much smother idle and > almost no sputtering when goosed. I left it in. > > The replacement condensor while in a near perfect Lucas green box was > not shiny aluminum and showed much surface corrosion - probably worse > inside! $7 not well spent! > > The OLD condensor will get me home and then I'll order up a bunch of > newer ignition parts - or I may find what I need on the field tomorrow. > > Cheers, and thanks again. > > Brian > _______________________________________________ > > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > This list supported in part by the Vintage Triumph Register > http://www.vtr.org > > > Triumphs at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs > > > http://www.team.net/archive From spitlist at cox.net Fri Sep 18 20:10:08 2009 From: spitlist at cox.net (Joe Curry) Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 19:10:08 -0700 Subject: [TR] TR4A Sputtering - Partially Solved In-Reply-To: <0KQ700ISC1BRQQ00@mta01.its.queensu.ca> References: <0KQ700ISC1BRQQ00@mta01.its.queensu.ca> Message-ID: Brian, While you are at it, why not install a new Pertronix. It will be far more reliable and should it ever fail, you can just quickly slip in a set of points and condenser to get you on your way. Joe -----Original Message----- From: triumphs-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:triumphs-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Brian Thomas Sent: Friday, September 18, 2009 5:57 PM To: triumphs at autox.team.net Subject: [TR] TR4A Sputtering - Partially Solved Hi guys, Thanks for all the advice. I went "shopping" shortly after I sent the original email as the field is just across the road from the hotel. The usual outside vendors were HIDING in the light rain. I found an inside vendor with the correct condensor and went back to the hotel to install it - absolutely no affect! I then played with the distributor substituting various used point sets and rotors I had in my tool box - again with no affect. Then in a last ditch effort, I subbed in the condensor I took out 11 years ago - mostly to prove that if it operated the same way, I did have a condensor problem and the new condensor was toast, too. Well, that old condensor while not perfect resulted in a much smother idle and almost no sputtering when goosed. I left it in. The replacement condensor while in a near perfect Lucas green box was not shiny aluminum and showed much surface corrosion - probably worse inside! $7 not well spent! The OLD condensor will get me home and then I'll order up a bunch of newer ignition parts - or I may find what I need on the field tomorrow. Cheers, and thanks again. Brian This list supported in part by the Vintage Triumph Register http://www.vtr.org Triumphs at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs http://www.team.net/archive From StagByTriumph at triumphstagclub.org Fri Sep 18 20:30:13 2009 From: StagByTriumph at triumphstagclub.org (Glenn A. Merrell - TSN) Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 20:30:13 -0600 Subject: [TR] TTA Charity Drive Update 18 Sept 2009 Message-ID: <4AB44235.8080600@triumphstagclub.org> [From BCF Triumph Forum] Updates at John's site at http://www.triumphtransamerica.org.uk/ seem to have dried up since Sept. 12th; has anyone heard anything? Or maybe he decided to just stay in Vancouver! I hope all is well. ... Yes actually John, Liz and UJ crossed the US border, traveled to Edmunds WA to spend some R&R with family. Today, Friday they drive to Vancouver WA / Portland OR area in prep for a drive Saturday with the Portland Area Triumphs. The 21st they head out of Portland, OR over to HWY 101, down to Eureka California. The 22nd, probably some crooked road driving on the Matole Road / Kings road to Bodega Bay for an overnighter. The 23rd should then be down 1A from Bodega Bay, over to Santa Rosa and Calistoga to the Silverado trail to Silver Oak and Stag Leap vineyards, Down to Napa, over to Novato or Petaluma, the Marin French Cheese farm, to Point Reyes National Seashore and Lighthouse, back over to 1A, down to Stinson Beach, maybe an overnighter before heading over the hill to 101 and up to Corte Madera on the 24th. The 24th John does a presentation for the Lions Club, then it is up to TTSCC until the 28th in Monterey where Susan and I will meet up with John, Liz and UJ. Then some Anniversary celebrations for John and Liz - 5th Wedding if you recall from the TVT a while back, then the Gran Finale Drive the 30th down HWY 1A to SLO. There will be a Gran Finale Toast at the Embassy Suites the evening of the 30th in the Hotel Lounge during the Managers reception! Be there if you can!! -- Glenn Merrell TSN Admin http://www.triumphstag.net mailto:StagByTriumph at triumphstagclub.org From dlylis at gmail.com Fri Sep 18 20:53:08 2009 From: dlylis at gmail.com (dlylis at gmail.com) Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2009 02:53:08 +0000 Subject: [TR] Off-topic -deadly floormats? Message-ID: Does anyone know the results of putting it in Park (other than toasting the tranny, of course) ------Original Message------ From: Randall Sender: triumphs-bounces at autox.team.net To: triumphs at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [TR] Off-topic -deadly floormats? Sent: Sep 18, 2009 6:56 PM > This morning I started the car and drove down the road, pushed the > START/STOP ... nothing, stepped on brake, pushed ... nothing. So indeed, they have made a car that you cannot turn off when something goes wrong. And this guy was given one as a loaner (so possibly not familiar with the system), and something went wrong. Somehow, I can see getting flustered over a 'key' that doesn't do anything; and not thinking of shifting to neutral. And who knows, there may be a 'safety' interlock on that as well, that won't let you shift when doing over say, 50 mph. -- Randall _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html This list supported in part by the Vintage Triumph Register http://www.vtr.org Triumphs at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs http://www.team.net/archive Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T From mlang99 at comcast.net Fri Sep 18 20:57:48 2009 From: mlang99 at comcast.net (Michael Lang) Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 19:57:48 -0700 Subject: [TR] OT - Warehouse 13 -> Artie's car? Message-ID: <4AB448AC.9060008@comcast.net> I have been watching Warehouse 13 on the SciFi channel. Does anybody know what kind of car Artie has in the show? Sort of looks like an old MG or Jag, but I haven't been able to figure it out for sure. Mike From jdinnis at gmail.com Fri Sep 18 21:34:04 2009 From: jdinnis at gmail.com (John Innis) Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 22:34:04 -0500 Subject: [TR] OT - Warehouse 13 -> Artie's car? In-Reply-To: <4AB448AC.9060008@comcast.net> References: <4AB448AC.9060008@comcast.net> Message-ID: I was thinking MGA, but the tail end is wrong I think. On Fri, Sep 18, 2009 at 9:57 PM, Michael Lang wrote: > I have been watching Warehouse 13 on the SciFi channel. Does anybody > know what kind of car Artie has in the show? Sort of looks like an old > MG or Jag, but I haven't been able to figure it out for sure. > > Mike > _______________________________________________ -- ================================= = Never offend people with style when you = = can offend with substance --- Sam Brown = ================================= From carlsereda at aol.com Fri Sep 18 21:45:45 2009 From: carlsereda at aol.com (carlsereda) Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 20:45:45 -0700 Subject: [TR] TR4A double valve spring specs? Message-ID: Hi Listers, Can any of you tell me where to find the unistalled or installed measurements or any kind of specs for TR4A valve springs? I have a TR4/4A workshop manual, likewise parts manuals, etc. but can only find TR4 spring specs. Do TR4A double valve spring specs exist anywhere? Regards, Carl '63 TR4 since '74 From tjwakeman at gmail.com Fri Sep 18 23:04:46 2009 From: tjwakeman at gmail.com (TeriAnn J. Wakeman) Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 22:04:46 -0700 Subject: [TR] OT - Warehouse 13 -> Artie's car? In-Reply-To: <4AB448AC.9060008@comcast.net> References: <4AB448AC.9060008@comcast.net> Message-ID: <4AB4666E.3050501@gmail.com> Michael Lang wrote: > I have been watching Warehouse 13 on the SciFi channel. Does anybody > know what kind of car Artie has in the show? Sort of looks like an old > MG or Jag, but I haven't been able to figure it out for sure. > > I'm guessing either a XK-140 or 150, I haven't got a good look at the grille but there is definitely too much chrome to be a XK-120. I'm currently guessing a XK-150 roadster. It isn't close to looking like a MGA. Teriann From spitlist at cox.net Fri Sep 18 23:46:59 2009 From: spitlist at cox.net (Joe Curry) Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 22:46:59 -0700 Subject: [TR] OT - Warehouse 13 -> Artie's car? In-Reply-To: <4AB448AC.9060008@comcast.net> References: <4AB448AC.9060008@comcast.net> Message-ID: <6E2D3A6CFA6E4F1FB1DAD6F7D2DF38E5@joepentiumnew> It's nice to know I am not the only Nerd on this list! :) Joe -----Original Message----- From: triumphs-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:triumphs-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Michael Lang Sent: Friday, September 18, 2009 7:58 PM To: triumph list Subject: [TR] OT - Warehouse 13 -> Artie's car? I have been watching Warehouse 13 on the SciFi channel. Does anybody know what kind of car Artie has in the show? Sort of looks like an old MG or Jag, but I haven't been able to figure it out for sure. Mike This list supported in part by the Vintage Triumph Register http://www.vtr.org Triumphs at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs http://www.team.net/archive From mdporter at dfn.com Fri Sep 18 23:54:37 2009 From: mdporter at dfn.com (Michael Porter) Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 23:54:37 -0600 Subject: [TR] OT - Warehouse 13 -> Artie's car? In-Reply-To: <4AB4666E.3050501@gmail.com> References: <4AB448AC.9060008@comcast.net> <4AB4666E.3050501@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4AB4721D.9020607@dfn.com> TeriAnn J. Wakeman wrote: > Michael Lang wrote: >> I have been watching Warehouse 13 on the SciFi channel. Does anybody >> know what kind of car Artie has in the show? Sort of looks like an old >> MG or Jag, but I haven't been able to figure it out for sure. >> >> > I'm guessing either a XK-140 or 150, I haven't got a good look at the > grille but there is definitely too much chrome to be a XK-120. I'm > currently guessing a XK-150 roadster. > > It isn't close to looking like a MGA. > Very true about the MGA--all MGAs had the headlights in the fenders, and the hood and grille are more sloped. And were smaller overall. I would tend to agree that it's an XK150. The front running and indicator lights are in the right positions, the hip-up at the B-pillar looks right. The curvature of the windscreen and surround is also right (but, Artie's car does not seem to have wing deflectors as do the XK150s I can find photos of on the web). Best guess is a 150. Cheers. -- Michael Porter Roswell, NM Never let anyone drive you crazy when you know it's within walking distance.... From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Sat Sep 19 05:41:11 2009 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2009 04:41:11 -0700 Subject: [TR] Off-topic -deadly floormats? In-Reply-To: <20090919032739.7BCCC187676@autox.team.net> Message-ID: <20090919114109855.QTNP6569@cdptpa-omta01.mail.rr.com> > Does anyone know the results of putting it in Park (other > than toasting the tranny, of course) I have no idea about the Lexus in question; but for most older American cars, putting it in 'Park' at speed is effectively the same as 'Neutral'. The park function is basically a pin that drops into some gear teeth, and at speed the pin just slides over the tips of the teeth (much like grinding the gears when you miss a shift in a manual transmission). You get an unpleasant noise, but not much else. Randall From spamiam at comcast.net Sat Sep 19 06:18:15 2009 From: spamiam at comcast.net (Anthony Rhodes) Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2009 08:18:15 -0400 Subject: [TR] Off-topic -deadly floormats? Message-ID: I absolutely DETEST modern owner's manuals!!!!!!!!!!!! They are written by lawyers, not by people concerned with the owner actually knowing anything about using or maintianing the car. Look at all the "warnings" and other similar boxes. Try to find out what fuse is for the interior lights, and how to find it, and how to open the fuse box. I wanted to replace a running light on my 2002 Ford Explorer. I had to search hard in the contents to find the appropriate section. I had an extra hard time to find out what type of bulb it is. Then the manual says that the bulb is not easily accessible and should be replaced by a trained technician. I searched for the bulb holder in that car and could not even see where it was located. I am sure that a quick description in the manual of the where and how, and I could have done the job myself for the price of a bulb. It cost me something like $20 to get it done by someone who knew where and how. $2 for the bulb and $18 for the expertise in knowing where to put it! The job was done quickly and done properly, but it did cost me. These owners manuals suck. They should be called the "Lawyer's Manual"! -Tony ------------ORIGINAL MESSAGE---------------- >A 2008 Infinity owner's manual(s) is about 4" thick when stacked >together....the average person is not going to take the time to read the >whole thing, but hey, how many folks read the instructions anyway. Just >show me how to start it and off we go! They do have a "quick" 4-5 page >version so they do not irritate the new owner who just wants to drive it. > >Doug From fogbro1 at comcast.net Sat Sep 19 06:45:50 2009 From: fogbro1 at comcast.net (Ed Woods) Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2009 08:45:50 -0400 Subject: [TR] TR4A Sputtering - Partially Solved References: <0KQ700ISC1BRQQ00@mta01.its.queensu.ca> Message-ID: And 50 bucks when the Pertronix module fails! Ed Woods ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Curry" To: "'Brian Thomas'" ; Sent: Friday, September 18, 2009 10:10 PM Subject: Re: [TR] TR4A Sputtering - Partially Solved > Brian, > > While you are at it, why not install a new Pertronix. It will be far more > reliable and should it ever fail, you can just quickly slip in a set of > points and condenser to get you on your way. > > Joe From terryrs at comcast.net Sat Sep 19 07:06:54 2009 From: terryrs at comcast.net (terryrs at comcast.net) Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2009 13:06:54 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [TR] Valve Float In-Reply-To: <4AB394A6.9090604@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1579135753.3884871253365614870.JavaMail.root@sz0059a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> As a daily driver, my TR3 is on the road about an hour and a half a day, hitting highway speeds of 80, sometimes 85, on I 93. While I never do this as a rule, I did have occasion this week to need all the power the car had to offer, and think I hit 100 mph, about which time the engine faltered and stopped accelerating.B Ran smooth and with power to that "limit" point.B Would this be likely due to valves unable to keep up?B Or might it be that the timing is a hair off, not noticeable during regular driving? It's a stock cam and everything else, with Pertrinox conversion, but I thought the cars went to 120, something like that?B Just curious, folks.B I have no intention of doing this again any time soon! Terry Smith, '59 TR3A New Hampshire From yellowtr at adelphia.net Sat Sep 19 07:20:05 2009 From: yellowtr at adelphia.net (Bob) Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2009 09:20:05 -0400 Subject: [TR] TR4A Sputtering - Partially Solved In-Reply-To: <0KQ700ISC1BRQQ00@mta01.its.queensu.ca> References: <0KQ700ISC1BRQQ00@mta01.its.queensu.ca> Message-ID: <200909190920.05903.yellowtr@adelphia.net> On Friday 18 September 2009 08:57:23 pm Brian Thomas wrote: > Hi guys, > > Thanks for all the advice. > > I went "shopping" shortly after I sent the original email as the > field is just across the road from the hotel. The usual outside > vendors were HIDING in the light rain. I found an inside vendor with > the correct condensor and went back to the hotel to install it - > absolutely no affect! > > I then played with the distributor substituting various used point > sets and rotors I had in my tool box - again with no affect. Then in > a last ditch effort, I subbed in the condensor I took out 11 years > ago - mostly to prove that if it operated the same way, I did have a > condensor problem and the new condensor was toast, too. Well, that > old condensor while not perfect resulted in a much smother idle and > almost no sputtering when goosed. I left it in. > > The replacement condensor while in a near perfect Lucas green box was > not shiny aluminum and showed much surface corrosion - probably worse > inside! $7 not well spent! > > The OLD condensor will get me home and then I'll order up a bunch of > newer ignition parts - or I may find what I need on the field tomorrow. > > Cheers, and thanks again. > > Brian Brian, You might want to give Jeff at Advanced Distributor a call. He is an expert on all distributors and sells top quality parts. He can also totally rebuild your 4A distributor and make it look and operate better than new. Prices are very reasonable. Bob From Chip19474 at aol.com Sat Sep 19 08:34:52 2009 From: Chip19474 at aol.com (Chip19474 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2009 10:34:52 EDT Subject: [TR] Valve Float Message-ID: Terry, I would bet that you simply outpaced the delivery of fuel to the engine.....either because of fuel bowl level dropping and float/valve setting not able to "keep up" with demand or fuel pump not able to keep up...or combination of both! Chip Krout Delaware Valley Triumphs, Ltd. Skippack, PA 1976 TR6 CF57822U In a message dated 9/19/2009 9:08:09 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, terryrs at comcast.net writes: I did have occasion this week to need all the power the car had to offer, and think I hit 100 mph, about which time the engine faltered and stopped accelerating.B From nafzigerg at yahoo.com Sat Sep 19 09:46:26 2009 From: nafzigerg at yahoo.com (Gary Nafziger) Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2009 08:46:26 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [TR] valve float .........top speed Message-ID: <10395.53104.qm@web65303.mail.ac2.yahoo.com> just curious about how fast anyone has gone in a tr-3 both in stock form and racing. I never thought a tr-3 could do much over 100 in stock form but maybe i'm wrong. also tr-6 same question! gary n. From spitlist at cox.net Sat Sep 19 10:07:33 2009 From: spitlist at cox.net (Joe Curry) Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2009 09:07:33 -0700 Subject: [TR] TR4A Sputtering - Partially Solved In-Reply-To: References: <0KQ700ISC1BRQQ00@mta01.its.queensu.ca> Message-ID: <4E356DA19BD54E9C92686A16925ADEB8@joepentiumnew> I have never had one fail. They are solid state devices and much less prone to failure than points and condenser. JOe -----Original Message----- From: triumphs-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:triumphs-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Ed Woods Sent: Saturday, September 19, 2009 5:46 AM To: triumphs at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [TR] TR4A Sputtering - Partially Solved And 50 bucks when the Pertronix module fails! Ed Woods ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Curry" To: "'Brian Thomas'" ; Sent: Friday, September 18, 2009 10:10 PM Subject: Re: [TR] TR4A Sputtering - Partially Solved > Brian, > > While you are at it, why not install a new Pertronix. It will be far more > reliable and should it ever fail, you can just quickly slip in a set of > points and condenser to get you on your way. > > Joe This list supported in part by the Vintage Triumph Register http://www.vtr.org Triumphs at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs http://www.team.net/archive From mlang99 at comcast.net Sat Sep 19 10:32:22 2009 From: mlang99 at comcast.net (Michael Lang) Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2009 09:32:22 -0700 Subject: [TR] Sticking Valves? Message-ID: <4AB50796.9090401@comcast.net> I have now got about 2000 miles on my freshly rebuilt TR3 engine and am having a sporadic problem. I drive a lot of hilly back roads on the way to and from work. When I climb one particularly long hill at about 65mph, the engine starts missing on one cylinder and I begin to hear a lot of valve train clatter. If I back off a bit, it stops missing and runs fine. It continues for such a short time after reducing load that I have never been able to stop and diagnose the problem. When I rebuilt the engine, I had the head done with new valves, bronze guides and hardened seats. I think that I have a valve that is sticking when running hot under load. Is this a common problem with these engines? Any other thoughts an what might be happening? Thanks, Mike From tony at tonydrews.com Sat Sep 19 10:51:19 2009 From: tony at tonydrews.com (Tony Drews) Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2009 11:51:19 -0500 Subject: [TR] Sticking Valves? In-Reply-To: <4AB50796.9090401@comcast.net> References: <4AB50796.9090401@comcast.net> Message-ID: <20090919165151.73ECF187644@autox.team.net> The valve guide clearance is a key factor in our engines. With too small clearance, we have stuck valves in racing conditions - especially when the engine starts running hot. With a high lift cam so the valve can potentially hit the piston, the result is disastrous. With the stock lift, there shouldn't be interference, so the result is much less catastrophic. The #4 cylinder is more prone to run hot than the other cylinders. So, your theory is plausible. BTW, we specify 0.004" with new guides. Normally I would suspect a fuel delivery problem, but the "valve train clatter" is suspicious. - Tony Drews At 11:32 AM 9/19/2009, Michael Lang wrote: >I have now got about 2000 miles on my freshly rebuilt TR3 engine and am >having a sporadic problem. I drive a lot of hilly back roads on the way >to and from work. When I climb one particularly long hill at about >65mph, the engine starts missing on one cylinder and I begin to hear a >lot of valve train clatter. If I back off a bit, it stops missing and >runs fine. It continues for such a short time after reducing load that I >have never been able to stop and diagnose the problem. > >When I rebuilt the engine, I had the head done with new valves, bronze >guides and hardened seats. I think that I have a valve that is sticking >when running hot under load. Is this a common problem with these >engines? Any other thoughts an what might be happening? > >Thanks, > >Mike From tony at tonydrews.com Sat Sep 19 10:55:28 2009 From: tony at tonydrews.com (Tony Drews) Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2009 11:55:28 -0500 Subject: [TR] Valve Float In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20090919165555.EA35C187664@autox.team.net> I would vote for a fuel delivery issue as well. Valve float is not a sudden faltering, where running out of gas is. In racing, with electric pumps and regulators, we fought that problem for a while before we ended up with a reliable combination of parts. What would happen is the car would falter 2/3 or so down the long straights at Road America. We didn't see the issue at lower speed - had to be on the gas hard for a long time. - Tony Drews At 09:34 AM 9/19/2009, Chip19474 at aol.com wrote: >Terry, > >I would bet that you simply outpaced the delivery of fuel to the >engine.....either because of fuel bowl level dropping and >float/valve setting not >able to "keep up" with demand or fuel pump not able to keep up...or >combination of both! > >Chip Krout >Delaware Valley Triumphs, Ltd. >Skippack, PA >1976 TR6 CF57822U > > >In a message dated 9/19/2009 9:08:09 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, >terryrs at comcast.net writes: > >I did have occasion this week to need all the >power the car had to offer, and think I hit 100 mph, about which time the >engine faltered and stopped accelerating.B >_______________________________________________ > >Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > >This list supported in part by the Vintage Triumph Register >http://www.vtr.org > > >Triumphs at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs > > >http://www.team.net/archive From tony at tonydrews.com Sat Sep 19 10:59:04 2009 From: tony at tonydrews.com (Tony Drews) Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2009 11:59:04 -0500 Subject: [TR] valve float .........top speed In-Reply-To: <10395.53104.qm@web65303.mail.ac2.yahoo.com> References: <10395.53104.qm@web65303.mail.ac2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20090919165930.98F9A187644@autox.team.net> To get the TR-2 (?) to do 120, the factory fully faired the car - belly pan and tonneau cover I seem to recall. I believe that stock top end was more like 100. My TR-4 race car's fastest speed on the track is just shy of 130 - on the open road I MAY be able to get to 135 right before I blow it up... :) It gets to 100 pretty quickly, though. - Tony At 10:46 AM 9/19/2009, Gary Nafziger wrote: >just curious about how fast anyone has gone in a tr-3 both in stock form and >racing. I never thought a tr-3 could do much over 100 in stock form but maybe >i'm wrong. also tr-6 same question! > >gary n. From klassiccar at aol.com Sat Sep 19 11:21:45 2009 From: klassiccar at aol.com (klassiccar at aol.com) Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2009 13:21:45 -0400 Subject: [TR] owners manuals Message-ID: <8CC0764CBD3DBE0-2890-105@webmail-m043.sysops.aol.com> I absolutely DETEST modern owner's manuals!!!!!!!!!!!! They are written by lawyers, Tony----You should have given your owners manual to your brother, the lawyer, first. He then could have cross referenced your search, and then sent you a brief on how to properly change ?your bulb. Steve K From amfoto1 at aol.com Sat Sep 19 12:58:06 2009 From: amfoto1 at aol.com (Alan Myers) Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2009 14:58:06 -0400 Subject: [TR] Sticking valves? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8CC077240BD82D2-16C0-410A@webmail-d007.sysops.aol.com> Hi, Tony, maybe you can clarify a little on what you've been doing when setting up your engines... And perhaps I can add a bit about?a?possible?reason?this happens... My understanding is that the "unleaded" bronze valve guides we?have to use?today tend to expand more with heat than the originals "leaded" ones?did (cast iron of some sort, I believe). As a result, it's an all too common mistake to "follow the repair?manual specs" when honing the new guides, which will leave the bronze ones?far too tight once the engine has warmed up. This?can lead to stuck valves?or worse. Now, I don't have a repair manual at hand, but seem to recall that the original specs for honing showed a range and?with modern guides you'd better?NOT hone for the minimum. Instead hone for the largest dimension shown.?On the original?guides the larger dimension?would have indicated wear, that?the guide?was reaching the end of its useful life and would soon need replacement. But, again, with modern guides it's best to hone for the largest dimension shown, or you?may see the valves start sticking. Can anyone check confirm the original TR2/3/4/4A?repair manual specs for valve guides, especially on the exhaust side (if it differs from the intake)? The most likely valves to stick with the too-small dimension are the exhaust valves because they have to deal with considerably more heat.?And, yes as Tony points out, #4 is the one that tends to run hotter on a TR engine,?even if it's?seen some mods to improve coolant flow back to the rear of the engine & head. Alan Myers San Jose, California amfoto1 at aol.com '62 TR4 CT17602L http://www.triumphowners.com/640 -----Original Message----- ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2009 11:51:19 -0500 From: Tony Drews Subject: Re: [TR] Sticking Valves? To: Michael Lang , triumph list ??? Message-ID: <20090919165151.73ECF187644 at autox.team.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed The valve guide clearance is a key factor in our engines.? With too small clearance, we have stuck valves in racing conditions - especially when the engine starts running hot.? With a high lift cam so the valve can potentially hit the piston, the result is disastrous.? With the stock lift, there shouldn't be interference, so the result is much less catastrophic.? The #4 cylinder is more prone to run hot than the other cylinders.? So, your theory is plausible.? BTW, we specify 0.004" with new guides. Normally I would suspect a fuel delivery problem, but the "valve train clatter" is suspicious. - Tony Drews At 11:32 AM 9/19/2009, Michael Lang wrote: >I have now got about 2000 miles on my freshly rebuilt TR3 engine and am >having a sporadic problem. I drive a lot of hilly back roads on the way >to and from work. When I climb one particularly long hill at about >65mph, the engine starts missing on one cylinder and I begin to hear a >lot of valve train clatter. If I back off a bit, it stops missing and >runs fine. It continues for such a short time after reducing load that I >have never been able to stop and diagnose the problem. > >When I rebuilt the engine, I had the head done with new valves, bronze >guides and hardened seats. I think that I have a valve that is sticking >when running hot under load. Is this a common problem with these >engines? Any other thoughts an what might be happening? > >Thanks, > >Mike ------------------------------ From tony at tonydrews.com Sat Sep 19 13:20:42 2009 From: tony at tonydrews.com (Tony Drews) Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2009 14:20:42 -0500 Subject: [TR] Sticking valves? In-Reply-To: <8CC077240BD82D2-16C0-410A@webmail-d007.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CC077240BD82D2-16C0-410A@webmail-d007.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <20090919192111.45E95187644@autox.team.net> This is using new bronze valve guides. We have the machine shop hone them for 0.004" clearance between the valve stem and the guide (the valve stem outside diameter is 0.004" less than the valve guide inside diameter for its entire length). I'd have to dig out the manual to see what the stock spec is, but I KNOW that (in racing, anyway), 0.002" will stick valves - generally the exhaust, but the intakes will stick too, and 0.003" is marginal. It seems a little sloppy with 0.004" and we generally have to convince the machine shop that we really mean it. Even with this clearance, if we really overheat the motor we'll start to see sticky / bent valves. If you have pushrods mysteriously popping out from under the rocker arms, sticky valves is the primary culprit (as is an adjuster that backed WAY out). There are some things you can do to force more water to the rear of the engine (reduce the hole diameter for the water through the head gasket in the forward cylinders), but we run this clearance regardless. My understanding is that iron guides expand less so can use a bit less clearance, but I have no personal experience with those. - Tony Drews At 01:58 PM 9/19/2009, Alan Myers wrote: >Hi, > > > >Tony, maybe you can clarify a little on what you've been doing when >setting up your engines... And perhaps I can add a bit >about?a?possible?reason?this happens... From pryner at verizon.net Sat Sep 19 13:24:12 2009 From: pryner at verizon.net (Peter Ryner) Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2009 15:24:12 -0400 Subject: [TR] Sticking valves? In-Reply-To: <8CC077240BD82D2-16C0-410A@webmail-d007.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CC077240BD82D2-16C0-410A@webmail-d007.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Tony, I've used bronze valve guides in my TR and my MGB. The first time I had them installed by a local shop. They stuck immediately upon starting. I ended up sending the head to TRF for a rebuild and everything has been working fine for several years. Not sure what the hone the guides to, but they know what they are doing. As for the MG, I again used a local shop to put in new seats and bronze valve guides. When I got the head back I immediately checked how the valves fit into the guides. Several were binding up while cold. I did some research on line and quickly became convinced that bronze was not the way to go. It has a very different expansion coefficient than the head and several authors stated that they would never really work right. I opted to change out the guides with standard iron and am very pleased with the new fit. As far as your problem, it sounds like you have more of a timing or fuel problem than valves sticking. When my valves stuck they didn't unstick just by adjusting the pedal. I'd check the static and vacuum advance to see if you are advancing too much at full throttle, especially with the added load of the hill. I would think that sticking valves would be a more consistent problem not caused by the road condition whereas timing, fuel and other issues more affected by road conditions and throttle position would be more suspect. Pete ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alan Myers" To: Sent: Saturday, September 19, 2009 2:58 PM Subject: Re: [TR] Sticking valves? From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Sat Sep 19 13:44:10 2009 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2009 12:44:10 -0700 Subject: [TR] Sticking valves? In-Reply-To: <20090919192111.45E95187644@autox.team.net> Message-ID: <20090919194408320.CXQE9613@cdptpa-omta02.mail.rr.com> > My understanding is that iron guides expand less so can use a bit > less clearance, but I have no personal experience with those. Yup, the iron guides expand at the same rate as the head does, so the opening for the stem actually gets larger when the engine gets hot (to match the stem getting larger). With the bronze guides, the bronze expands much faster than the cast iron, so the guides actually distort and make the hole smaller as they get hot. Also, at least what I've been taught in machine work, cast iron doesn't gall the way that bronze does, and so is less likely to stick even with tight clearances. In theory, the bronze guides wear slower, but since you have to start with much larger clearances, the overall effect seems to be about the same. I'll never use them again. Randall From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Sat Sep 19 13:59:40 2009 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2009 12:59:40 -0700 Subject: [TR] Sticking valves? In-Reply-To: <8CC077240BD82D2-16C0-410A@webmail-d007.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <20090919195938597.ZSND17198@cdptpa-omta04.mail.rr.com> > Can anyone check confirm the original TR2/3/4/4A?repair > manual specs for valve guides, especially on the exhaust side > (if it differs from the intake)? TR2-3 factory workshop manual gives .001-.003" for intake, .003-.005" for exhaust. But that is for the 3/8" exhaust stems. Note that the clearance is supposed to be built into the valve stem; the target diameter for the guide is the 'nominal' diameter. Thus intake guides are 5/16" while intake stems are 5/16 minus .002" (the nominal clearance). Exhaust guides are 3/8", while exhaust stems are 3/8" minus .004". Then all measurements are +/- .0005", giving the range of clearances. My 4-4A Bentley gives the same numbers (and fails to mention the 5/16" exhaust stems). Randall From spamiam at comcast.net Sat Sep 19 14:57:58 2009 From: spamiam at comcast.net (Anthony Rhodes) Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2009 16:57:58 -0400 Subject: [TR] Triumphs Digest, Vol 3, Issue 441 References: Message-ID: Joe, I have to differ with you. I have seen 3 of Pertronics fail. They failed oddly. They did not die totally, they could not sustain higher RPM, so there would be a misfire at 3K rpm , for example, but it seemed to idle OK. That being said, I have one in my car, but I installed it when I was trying to eliminate a very small miss. I found that the MGB push-in style cap and corresponding wires made the most difference. I had already switched to the pertronics, which had not made much of a difference compared to a well tuned points system. Since I had already switched to the pertronics, I was not going to spend the time to switch back to points. I left it there, but I am prepared to install points at a moment's notice. This thread got me interested in tracking down a "new" subtle stumble on acceleration from idle on my TR4A. I thought it might be a problem with excessively lean idle settings on the carbs, so I richened them. That helped a little, but the stumble was still there. I then moved to thicker dashpot oil. I had been using 10-40 (as I recall). I put in "SU Dashpot Oil" (tm) and that was THINNER than what I had in there already. I then put in straight 30wt oil, and that was ever so slightly thinner, so I put in 20-50 oil. That was slightly thicker (as expected). Unfortunately, the stumble was still there! I then checked the jet heights and they were very different! One was 3mm, and the other was just over 2mm below the bridge. I equalized them and then had to enrich both by 6 flats, and it was running smoooooth! I could probably go back to a lighter dashpot oil now, but it seems fine with 20-50. -Tony ----- Original Message ----- > Message: 1 > Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2009 09:07:33 -0700 > From: "Joe Curry" > Subject: Re: [TR] TR4A Sputtering - Partially Solved > To: "'Ed Woods'" , > Message-ID: <4E356DA19BD54E9C92686A16925ADEB8 at joepentiumnew> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > I have never had one fail. They are solid state devices and much less > prone > to failure than points and condenser. > > JOe From spamiam at comcast.net Sat Sep 19 14:58:20 2009 From: spamiam at comcast.net (Anthony Rhodes) Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2009 16:58:20 -0400 Subject: [TR] Triumphs Digest, Vol 3, Issue 441 Message-ID: <5D851925F10440598F9506D96BCD3EC3@I7QUAD> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Anthony Rhodes" To: Sent: Saturday, September 19, 2009 4:57 PM Subject: Re: Triumphs Digest, Vol 3, Issue 441 > Joe, > > I have to differ with you. I have seen 3 of Pertronics fail. They failed > oddly. They did not die totally, they could not sustain higher RPM, so > there would be a misfire at 3K rpm , for example, but it seemed to idle > OK. > > That being said, I have one in my car, but I installed it when I was > trying to eliminate a very small miss. I found that the MGB push-in style > cap and corresponding wires made the most difference. I had already > switched to the pertronics, which had not made much of a difference > compared to a well tuned points system. Since I had already switched to > the pertronics, I was not going to spend the time to switch back to > points. I left it there, but I am prepared to install points at a > moment's notice. > > This thread got me interested in tracking down a "new" subtle stumble on > acceleration from idle on my TR4A. I thought it might be a problem with > excessively lean idle settings on the carbs, so I richened them. That > helped a little, but the stumble was still there. I then moved to thicker > dashpot oil. I had been using 10-40 (as I recall). I put in "SU Dashpot > Oil" (tm) and that was THINNER than what I had in there already. I then > put in straight 30wt oil, and that was ever so slightly thinner, so I put > in 20-50 oil. That was slightly thicker (as expected). Unfortunately, > the stumble was still there! > > I then checked the jet heights and they were very different! One was 3mm, > and the other was just over 2mm below the bridge. I equalized them and > then had to enrich both by 6 flats, and it was running smoooooth! I could > probably go back to a lighter dashpot oil now, but it seems fine with > 20-50. > > -Tony > ----- Original Message ----- >> Message: 1 >> Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2009 09:07:33 -0700 >> From: "Joe Curry" >> Subject: Re: [TR] TR4A Sputtering - Partially Solved >> To: "'Ed Woods'" , >> Message-ID: <4E356DA19BD54E9C92686A16925ADEB8 at joepentiumnew> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >> >> I have never had one fail. They are solid state devices and much less >> prone >> to failure than points and condenser. >> >> JOe From rengrave at verizon.net Sat Sep 19 15:07:24 2009 From: rengrave at verizon.net (Wayne) Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2009 17:07:24 -0400 Subject: [TR] Help trying to align my bonnet on TR6 Message-ID: Anyone have a trick for aligning the bonnet on a TR6? Every time I try another position the bonnet seems to not be lined up where it should be when I close it. It seems to be always hugging the drivers side, almost hits the fender when closing, and when almost closed the gap is large on the passenger side along the top of the fender and tight on the drivers side. Is it possible that I may need to bend the hinge brackets? I only removed the bolts on the bonnet, I did not move the hinge bolts to the body at all when I removed the hood 8 years ago for the engine rebuild. Wayne 73 TR6 From npaul72464 at aol.com Sat Sep 19 15:30:20 2009 From: npaul72464 at aol.com (npaul72464 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2009 17:30:20 -0400 Subject: [TR] OT - Warehouse 13 -> Artie's car? In-Reply-To: References: <4AB448AC.9060008@comcast.net> Message-ID: <8CC0787861CC68C-2998-1864@webmail-d079.sysops.aol.com> It is an XK 150.? Check out IMCDB.org (international movie cars data base).? Very neat site! Ned Paulsen 1958 TR3A -----Original Message----- From: John Innis To: Michael Lang Cc: triumph list Sent: Fri, Sep 18, 2009 11:34 pm Subject: Re: [TR] OT - Warehouse 13 -> Artie's car? I was thinking MGA, but the tail end is wrong I think. On Fri, Sep 18, 2009 at 9:57 PM, Michael Lang wrote: > I have been watching Warehouse 13 on the SciFi channel. Does anybody > know what kind of car Artie has in the show? Sort of looks like an old > MG or Jag, but I haven't been able to figure it out for sure. > > Mike > _______________________________________________ -- ================================= = Never offend people with style when you = = can offend with substance --- Sam Brown = ================================= This list supported in part by the Vintage Triumph Register http://www.vtr.org Triumphs at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs http://www.team.net/archive From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Sat Sep 19 15:36:07 2009 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2009 14:36:07 -0700 Subject: [TR] TR4A Sputtering - Partially Solved In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20090919213604920.BKLP17198@cdptpa-omta04.mail.rr.com> > While you are at it, why not install a new Pertronix. It > will be far more > reliable Wow, Joe, that seems like quite a turn-around. Wasn't it you a few years back, posting about how many problems you had seen with Pertronix? Magnets falling out, magnets installed wrong by the factory, etc. IMO the main advantage of the various electronic conversions is lack of required maintenance, and somewhat better tolerance of worn distributor bushings. In my experience at least, they have been roughly the equivalent of points in terms of "get me home" reliability. But the electronics win, hands-down, for more weird, intermittent problems. I had a MSD box for awhile that would simply refuse to produce a spark for up to a minute, almost every morning. Would start just fine, get a mile or two from home, then simply die at a stop light and refuse to restart. Never died running down the road, only when sitting idling. If I got out, opened the hood, wiggled the wires around; generally the first time it still wouldn't start. But try it again, and here we go. Ran fine the rest of the way to work, no problems at lunch, ran fine all the way home. Then the next morning, same thing again. Finally sent the unit back to MSD; they didn't find anything wrong but 'updated' some components which seemed to solve the problem (and charged me about $60 for not fixing anything). I think this was mentioned, but I'll repeat it: There are TWO wires that connect to the points; one from the side terminal and one from the distributor body (to the plate that the points are screwed down to). Both of those wires are forced to flex every time the vacuum advance moves, so they can break internally with no signs of any trouble just looking at them. Best way to check is to disconnect one end, and check the resistance while tugging gently on the wire. Randall From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Sat Sep 19 15:39:09 2009 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2009 14:39:09 -0700 Subject: [TR] valve float .........top speed In-Reply-To: <10395.53104.qm@web65303.mail.ac2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20090919213907185.TCYE26357@cdptpa-omta03.mail.rr.com> > just curious about how fast anyone has gone in a tr-3 both in > stock form and > racing. Actual, or indicated? I've had a CHP claim he clocked me at 95, but as there was considerable traffic I was nowhere near top end. Randall From Kinderlehrer at comcast.net Sat Sep 19 16:00:08 2009 From: Kinderlehrer at comcast.net (Kinderlehrer) Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2009 15:00:08 -0700 Subject: [TR] Triumphs Digest, Vol 3, Issue 441 References: Message-ID: I've had the same experience. The electronics didn't fail, but the magnets became askew in the collar, so it provided great spark at all the wrong times. When I started having the same problems with the replacement, I went back to points and I'll stay there. Bob ----- Original Message ----- From: "Anthony Rhodes" To: Sent: Saturday, September 19, 2009 1:57 PM Subject: Re: [TR] Triumphs Digest, Vol 3, Issue 441 > Joe, > > I have to differ with you. I have seen 3 of Pertronics fail. They failed > oddly. They did not die totally, they could not sustain higher RPM, so > there would be a misfire at 3K rpm , for example, but it seemed to idle > OK. > > That being said, I have one in my car, but I installed it when I was > trying to eliminate a very small miss. I found that the MGB push-in style > cap and corresponding wires made the most difference. I had already > switched to the pertronics, which had not made much of a difference > compared to a well tuned points system. Since I had already switched to > the pertronics, I was not going to spend the time to switch back to > points. I left it there, but I am prepared to install points at a > moment's notice. From jeremiah at curryclan.net Sat Sep 19 16:19:50 2009 From: jeremiah at curryclan.net (Jeremiah Curry) Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2009 16:19:50 -0600 Subject: [TR] Triumphs Digest, Vol 3, Issue 441 Message-ID: <0MKp8S-1Mp8HU3tSl-000P5c@mrelay.perfora.net> I have heard on the list about the petronix failing. What about the crane electronic ignition. I bought that from Moss,but haven't installed yet Jeremiah -----Original Message----- From: Kinderlehrer Sent: Saturday, September 19, 2009 4:00 PM To: Anthony Rhodes ; triumphs at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [TR] Triumphs Digest, Vol 3, Issue 441 I've had the same experience. The electronics didn't fail, but the magnets became askew in the collar, so it provided great spark at all the wrong times. When I started having the same problems with the replacement, I went back to points and I'll stay there. Bob ----- Original Message ----- From: "Anthony Rhodes" To: Sent: Saturday, September 19, 2009 1:57 PM Subject: Re: [TR] Triumphs Digest, Vol 3, Issue 441 > Joe, > > I have to differ with you. I have seen 3 of Pertronics fail. They failed > oddly. They did not die totally, they could not sustain higher RPM, so > there would be a misfire at 3K rpm , for example, but it seemed to idle > OK. > > That being said, I have one in my car, but I installed it when I was > trying to eliminate a very small miss. I found that the MGB push-in style > cap and corresponding wires made the most difference. I had already > switched to the pertronics, which had not made much of a difference > compared to a well tuned points system. Since I had already switched to > the pertronics, I was not going to spend the time to switch back to > points. I left it there, but I am prepared to install points at a > moment's notice. This list supported in part by the Vintage Triumph Register http://www.vtr.org Triumphs at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs http://www.team.net/archive From spitlist at cox.net Sat Sep 19 16:56:52 2009 From: spitlist at cox.net (Joe Curry) Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2009 15:56:52 -0700 Subject: [TR] Triumphs Digest, Vol 3, Issue 441 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8291E2B7533A4DBFB185173A1938197A@joepentiumnew> I highly suspect then that the installation of those three units was improper. I guess to be sure, you would have to inquire to the manufacturer and see what their failure rate is. Joe -----Original Message----- From: triumphs-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:triumphs-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Anthony Rhodes Sent: Saturday, September 19, 2009 1:58 PM To: triumphs at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [TR] Triumphs Digest, Vol 3, Issue 441 Joe, I have to differ with you. I have seen 3 of Pertronics fail. They failed oddly. They did not die totally, they could not sustain higher RPM, so there would be a misfire at 3K rpm , for example, but it seemed to idle OK. That being said, I have one in my car, but I installed it when I was trying to eliminate a very small miss. I found that the MGB push-in style cap and corresponding wires made the most difference. I had already switched to the pertronics, which had not made much of a difference compared to a well tuned points system. Since I had already switched to the pertronics, I was not going to spend the time to switch back to points. I left it there, but I am prepared to install points at a moment's notice. This thread got me interested in tracking down a "new" subtle stumble on acceleration from idle on my TR4A. I thought it might be a problem with excessively lean idle settings on the carbs, so I richened them. That helped a little, but the stumble was still there. I then moved to thicker dashpot oil. I had been using 10-40 (as I recall). I put in "SU Dashpot Oil" (tm) and that was THINNER than what I had in there already. I then put in straight 30wt oil, and that was ever so slightly thinner, so I put in 20-50 oil. That was slightly thicker (as expected). Unfortunately, the stumble was still there! I then checked the jet heights and they were very different! One was 3mm, and the other was just over 2mm below the bridge. I equalized them and then had to enrich both by 6 flats, and it was running smoooooth! I could probably go back to a lighter dashpot oil now, but it seems fine with 20-50. -Tony ----- Original Message ----- > Message: 1 > Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2009 09:07:33 -0700 > From: "Joe Curry" > Subject: Re: [TR] TR4A Sputtering - Partially Solved > To: "'Ed Woods'" , > Message-ID: <4E356DA19BD54E9C92686A16925ADEB8 at joepentiumnew> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > I have never had one fail. They are solid state devices and much less > prone > to failure than points and condenser. > > JOe This list supported in part by the Vintage Triumph Register http://www.vtr.org Triumphs at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs http://www.team.net/archive From spitlist at cox.net Sat Sep 19 16:59:45 2009 From: spitlist at cox.net (Joe Curry) Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2009 15:59:45 -0700 Subject: [TR] TR4A Sputtering - Partially Solved In-Reply-To: <20090919213604920.BKLP17198@cdptpa-omta04.mail.rr.com> References: <20090919213604920.BKLP17198@cdptpa-omta04.mail.rr.com> Message-ID: <663BCB1580534CB89EDF22905E488484@joepentiumnew> Absolutely not. I have never had any problems with the pertronix I previously used. Perhaps you are thinking about another Joe. Or better still, search the archives for any post from me complaining about Pertronix. Joe -----Original Message----- From: triumphs-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:triumphs-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Randall Sent: Saturday, September 19, 2009 2:36 PM To: triumphs at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [TR] TR4A Sputtering - Partially Solved > While you are at it, why not install a new Pertronix. It > will be far more > reliable Wow, Joe, that seems like quite a turn-around. Wasn't it you a few years back, posting about how many problems you had seen with Pertronix? Magnets falling out, magnets installed wrong by the factory, etc. IMO the main advantage of the various electronic conversions is lack of required maintenance, and somewhat better tolerance of worn distributor bushings. In my experience at least, they have been roughly the equivalent of points in terms of "get me home" reliability. But the electronics win, hands-down, for more weird, intermittent problems. I had a MSD box for awhile that would simply refuse to produce a spark for up to a minute, almost every morning. Would start just fine, get a mile or two from home, then simply die at a stop light and refuse to restart. Never died running down the road, only when sitting idling. If I got out, opened the hood, wiggled the wires around; generally the first time it still wouldn't start. But try it again, and here we go. Ran fine the rest of the way to work, no problems at lunch, ran fine all the way home. Then the next morning, same thing again. Finally sent the unit back to MSD; they didn't find anything wrong but 'updated' some components which seemed to solve the problem (and charged me about $60 for not fixing anything). I think this was mentioned, but I'll repeat it: There are TWO wires that connect to the points; one from the side terminal and one from the distributor body (to the plate that the points are screwed down to). Both of those wires are forced to flex every time the vacuum advance moves, so they can break internally with no signs of any trouble just looking at them. Best way to check is to disconnect one end, and check the resistance while tugging gently on the wire. Randall This list supported in part by the Vintage Triumph Register http://www.vtr.org Triumphs at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs http://www.team.net/archive From spitlist at cox.net Sat Sep 19 17:02:36 2009 From: spitlist at cox.net (Joe Curry) Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2009 16:02:36 -0700 Subject: [TR] Triumphs Digest, Vol 3, Issue 441 In-Reply-To: <0MKp8S-1Mp8HU3tSl-000P5c@mrelay.perfora.net> References: <0MKp8S-1Mp8HU3tSl-000P5c@mrelay.perfora.net> Message-ID: I used a Crane for quite a while on one of my Spits and it seemed to work fine until I upgraded to an EFI system that has the ignition system included in the ECU. There was a basic incompatibility with the Crane system and switching to an MSD system works like a charm. Joe -----Original Message----- From: triumphs-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:triumphs-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Jeremiah Curry Sent: Saturday, September 19, 2009 3:20 PM To: triumphs at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [TR] Triumphs Digest, Vol 3, Issue 441 I have heard on the list about the petronix failing. What about the crane electronic ignition. I bought that from Moss,but haven't installed yet Jeremiah -----Original Message----- From: Kinderlehrer Sent: Saturday, September 19, 2009 4:00 PM To: Anthony Rhodes ; triumphs at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [TR] Triumphs Digest, Vol 3, Issue 441 I've had the same experience. The electronics didn't fail, but the magnets became askew in the collar, so it provided great spark at all the wrong times. When I started having the same problems with the replacement, I went back to points and I'll stay there. Bob ----- Original Message ----- From: "Anthony Rhodes" To: Sent: Saturday, September 19, 2009 1:57 PM Subject: Re: [TR] Triumphs Digest, Vol 3, Issue 441 > Joe, > > I have to differ with you. I have seen 3 of Pertronics fail. They failed > oddly. They did not die totally, they could not sustain higher RPM, so > there would be a misfire at 3K rpm , for example, but it seemed to idle > OK. > > That being said, I have one in my car, but I installed it when I was > trying to eliminate a very small miss. I found that the MGB push-in style > cap and corresponding wires made the most difference. I had already > switched to the pertronics, which had not made much of a difference > compared to a well tuned points system. Since I had already switched to > the pertronics, I was not going to spend the time to switch back to > points. I left it there, but I am prepared to install points at a > moment's notice. This list supported in part by the Vintage Triumph Register http://www.vtr.org Triumphs at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs http://www.team.net/archive This list supported in part by the Vintage Triumph Register http://www.vtr.org Triumphs at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs http://www.team.net/archive From sumton at sbcglobal.net Sat Sep 19 16:53:04 2009 From: sumton at sbcglobal.net (oliver) Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2009 17:53:04 -0500 Subject: [TR] Triumphs Digest, Vol 3, Issue 441 References: <0MKp8S-1Mp8HU3tSl-000P5c@mrelay.perfora.net> Message-ID: <9A54639AE543426EB0202D4E1FCF3A6E@ranteer.local> i've got a pertronix in my six, and it rocks! plus i have a whole new dizzy with it built in in the mgb, and it rocks, too! no problems, no issues, just solid spark mile after mile after hard driving mile From nafzigerg at yahoo.com Sat Sep 19 17:30:29 2009 From: nafzigerg at yahoo.com (Gary Nafziger) Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2009 16:30:29 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [TR] bonnet alignment Message-ID: <483119.44728.qm@web65314.mail.ac2.yahoo.com> I just put my bonnet on this spring and can't remember where i learned the tip but........ I took off the grill.....layed the bonnet on the car then reaching through the grill opening .............tightened the bonnet down appropriately. I'm not completely happy with the alignment but think its probably as good as it gets with these cars. I'm wondering what the alignments were like from the factory when new.LOL You'll probably have to loosen ALL bolts on the brackets (on the bonnet as well as on the inner fender) to get the bonnet to move the way you want in order to get alignment where you want it. this process worked for me gary n. From spamiam at comcast.net Sat Sep 19 17:57:07 2009 From: spamiam at comcast.net (Anthony Rhodes) Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2009 19:57:07 -0400 Subject: [TR] TR4A Sputtering - Partially Solved References: <8291E2B7533A4DBFB185173A1938197A@joepentiumnew> Message-ID: <218DAC562281487EB9CB383E87CC3F4E@I7QUAD> Joe, Anything is possible, but these units had functioned well for a few years before the failures. One or more of them had a "sport coil" but nothing special other than that. replacing the Pertronics with either points or a new unit made the problem go away. So it was the Pertronics itself that went bad. There is not much else that can be improper about an installation other than wire polarity and the coil. -Tony ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Curry" To: "'Anthony Rhodes'" ; Sent: Saturday, September 19, 2009 6:56 PM Subject: RE: [TR] Triumphs Digest, Vol 3, Issue 441 >I highly suspect then that the installation of those three units was > improper. I guess to be sure, you would have to inquire to the > manufacturer > and see what their failure rate is. > > Joe From rengrave at verizon.net Sat Sep 19 18:09:02 2009 From: rengrave at verizon.net (Wayne) Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2009 20:09:02 -0400 Subject: [TR] Touch up paint for Mallard #106 Message-ID: <10875518D1854A0D92E6A9B9B7C4113B@RossFamily> Any source for small bottles of touch-up paint for our cars? I have Mallard #106 on my 73 TR6 and I have a couple of chipped areas I would like to touch up. I looked through the small touch up bottles at the local Autozone, but all I get is a pimple face kid who looks at me funny when I ask him for anything to do with a Triumph TR6. Wayne 73 TR6 From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Sat Sep 19 18:12:34 2009 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2009 17:12:34 -0700 Subject: [TR] TR4A Sputtering - Partially Solved In-Reply-To: <663BCB1580534CB89EDF22905E488484@joepentiumnew> Message-ID: <20090920001232523.DZHH17198@cdptpa-omta04.mail.rr.com> > Absolutely not. I have never had any problems with the pertronix I > previously used. Perhaps you are thinking about another Joe. Ok, Joe, my mistake. And my apologies. Randall From 75tr6 at tr6.danielsonfamily.org Sat Sep 19 18:38:23 2009 From: 75tr6 at tr6.danielsonfamily.org (Bob Danielson) Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2009 20:38:23 -0400 Subject: [TR] Help trying to align my bonnet on TR6 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4AB5797F.8090305@tr6.danielsonfamily.org> Any panel alignment is a PITA but there may be some tips here to help you out..........it's mostly trial and error. http://tr6.danielsonfamily.org/HoodInstall.htm Bob Danielson 1975 TR6 CF38503U Running w/ Throttle Body Injection Toyota 5 Speed & Nissan LSD http://tr6.danielsonfamily.org Wayne wrote: > Anyone have a trick for aligning the bonnet on a TR6? > Every time I try another position the bonnet seems to not be lined up where it > should be when I close it. > It seems to be always hugging the drivers side, almost hits the fender when > closing, and when almost closed > the gap is large on the passenger side along the top of the fender and tight > on the drivers side. > Is it possible that I may need to bend the hinge brackets? > I only removed the bolts on the bonnet, I did not move the hinge bolts to the > body at all when I removed the hood > 8 years ago for the engine rebuild. > > > Wayne > 73 TR6 > _______________________________________________ > > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > This list supported in part by the Vintage Triumph Register > http://www.vtr.org > > > Triumphs at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs > > > http://www.team.net/archive From jimmuller at rcn.com Sat Sep 19 18:42:01 2009 From: jimmuller at rcn.com (Jim Muller) Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2009 20:42:01 -0400 Subject: [TR] Missing on a hill, was Sticking Valves? In-Reply-To: <4AB50796.9090401@comcast.net> Message-ID: <4AB54219.30418.58EDC22@localhost> On 19 Sep 2009 at 9:32, Michael Lang wrote: > When I climb one particularly long hill at about > 65mph, the engine starts missing on one cylinder Sorry, I can't help with the sticking valve theory. I have a different story about sputtering while climbing hills. My Fiat 124 had a twin-cam, cross-flow alumin(i)um head. The plugs were set vertically and recessed in wells running right down the center of the head. The cam covers were prone to leak oil, some of which would collect in the plug wells. Well, one time the radiator cap started spraying water slightly, or maybe it was a pinhole leak in a hose, I forget. Anyway, some water collected in the plug wells too. It didn't matter much until I started going up a steep hill. Then if any were full enough the angle would let the water contact the plug tip and short it out. It took me a trip or two to figure out what was causing it, then another trip or two to find the water source. With regards electronic dizzies, my Spitfire has the Lucas CEI ignition. It has run like a champ for 20 years. The timing never moves. Its only problems were when the mounting bolts and the connector got corroded. And then when the engine was rebuilt the guys couldn't get it started so they replaced the GM module in the control box, it apparently have gone bad some time during their rebuild. Otherwise, it just runs. And it's a Lucas yet! Even if it does have a GM module inside. -- Jim Muller jimmuller at rcn.com '80 Spitfire, '70 GT6+ From kvacek at ameritech.net Sat Sep 19 18:46:14 2009 From: kvacek at ameritech.net (Karl Vacek) Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2009 19:46:14 -0500 Subject: [TR] valve float .........top speed References: <10395.53104.qm@web65303.mail.ac2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <896FBF7E9111417AB0027FD755631109@KARL> When TSF 130L was nearly new (1965-1966) I had it to an indicated 103 - 105 on a number of occasions, and that really seemed to be the top end no matter how well I tuned it. I always ran premium gas. In the summer of 1966, on a trip through the west with a buddy and loaded with clothes and camping gear, we raced a Volvo P1800S in Utah one evening, and slowly pulled away from him, again at just over 100 MPH. By the way, since every so often someone comments on economy, on that 4,900 mile trip, lots of mountains (Black Hills, Yellowstone, Grand Tetons, through Durango and Silverton up to Denver, Estes Park, etc.) and a good dose of Interstates, we got 31.25 MPG overall. Two 17-18 year olds with lead feet. Dead stock car, no OD, probably had close to 40,000 miles on it at that time. Wish I could've skipped college and kept that car, but my parents had other ideas... Karl > just curious about how fast anyone has gone in a tr-3 both in stock form > and > racing. I never thought a tr-3 could do much over 100 in stock form but > maybe > i'm wrong. also tr-6 same question! > > gary n. From spitlist at cox.net Sat Sep 19 19:11:20 2009 From: spitlist at cox.net (Joe Curry) Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2009 18:11:20 -0700 Subject: [TR] TR4A Sputtering - Partially Solved In-Reply-To: <218DAC562281487EB9CB383E87CC3F4E@I7QUAD> References: <8291E2B7533A4DBFB185173A1938197A@joepentiumnew> <218DAC562281487EB9CB383E87CC3F4E@I7QUAD> Message-ID: <6D6A7A48326D493788DD0ADD5D0128E3@joepentiumnew> That does shed a different light on the situation. I was assuming that they failed within the first few weeks or days of installation. But there is not really much to the Pertronix unit that can fail. Except for magnets falling out, everything else is solid state. I suppose that some sort of high voltage arc could fry the unit but that seems to me to be a bit of a rarity. I would be very interested in failure analysis results if such data is available from the manufacturer. Joe -----Original Message----- From: Anthony Rhodes [mailto:spamiam at comcast.net] Sent: Saturday, September 19, 2009 4:57 PM To: triumphs at autox.team.net; Joe Curry Subject: Re: [TR] TR4A Sputtering - Partially Solved Joe, Anything is possible, but these units had functioned well for a few years before the failures. One or more of them had a "sport coil" but nothing special other than that. replacing the Pertronics with either points or a new unit made the problem go away. So it was the Pertronics itself that went bad. There is not much else that can be improper about an installation other than wire polarity and the coil. -Tony ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Curry" To: "'Anthony Rhodes'" ; Sent: Saturday, September 19, 2009 6:56 PM Subject: RE: [TR] Triumphs Digest, Vol 3, Issue 441 >I highly suspect then that the installation of those three units was > improper. I guess to be sure, you would have to inquire to the > manufacturer > and see what their failure rate is. > > Joe From fishplate at charter.net Sat Sep 19 19:31:20 2009 From: fishplate at charter.net (Jeff Scarbrough) Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2009 21:31:20 -0400 Subject: [TR] TR4A Sputtering - Partially Solved In-Reply-To: <218DAC562281487EB9CB383E87CC3F4E@I7QUAD> References: <8291E2B7533A4DBFB185173A1938197A@joepentiumnew> <218DAC562281487EB9CB383E87CC3F4E@I7QUAD> Message-ID: At 07:57 PM 9/19/2009, Anthony Rhodes wrote: >replacing the Pertronics with either points or a new unit made the >problem go away. So it was the Pertronics itself that went bad. Perhaps it was a spelling error? From tr6parts at charter.net Sat Sep 19 19:47:18 2009 From: tr6parts at charter.net (Al Salvatore) Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2009 21:47:18 -0400 Subject: [TR] TR4A Sputtering - Partially Solved References: <8291E2B7533A4DBFB185173A1938197A@joepentiumnew><218DAC562281487EB9CB383E87CC3F4E@I7QUAD> <6D6A7A48326D493788DD0ADD5D0128E3@joepentiumnew> Message-ID: <527BB83D8CD34F19B38B5C0E2D679F4F@Alan> I 've been running a petronix for the last 9 years. Now, I have had skipping and plug fouling problems from time to time. But it ended up being bad rotors. In a two month time frame, I went through 3 cheap rotors, before ordering the upgrade rotor. Haven't had a problem since. A lot of people would have blamed the petronix and probably switched it out for points and tossed out a perfectly good petronix. 9 years in a daily driver and still ticking. 200K + miles : I don't think I would have got that far on one set of points. Cheers Al Salvatore ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Curry" To: "'Anthony Rhodes'" ; Sent: Saturday, September 19, 2009 9:11 PM Subject: Re: [TR] TR4A Sputtering - Partially Solved > That does shed a different light on the situation. I was assuming that > they > failed within the first few weeks or days of installation. > > But there is not really much to the Pertronix unit that can fail. Except > for magnets falling out, everything else is solid state. I suppose that > some sort of high voltage arc could fry the unit but that seems to me to > be > a bit of a rarity. > > I would be very interested in failure analysis results if such data is > available from the manufacturer. > > Joe > > -----Original Message----- > From: Anthony Rhodes [mailto:spamiam at comcast.net] > Sent: Saturday, September 19, 2009 4:57 PM > To: triumphs at autox.team.net; Joe Curry > Subject: Re: [TR] TR4A Sputtering - Partially Solved > > Joe, > > Anything is possible, but these units had functioned well for a few years > before the failures. One or more of them had a "sport coil" but nothing > special other than that. replacing the Pertronics with either points or a > new unit made the problem go away. So it was the Pertronics itself that > went bad. There is not much else that can be improper about an > installation > > other than wire polarity and the coil. > > -Tony > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Joe Curry" > To: "'Anthony Rhodes'" ; > Sent: Saturday, September 19, 2009 6:56 PM > Subject: RE: [TR] Triumphs Digest, Vol 3, Issue 441 > > >>I highly suspect then that the installation of those three units was >> improper. I guess to be sure, you would have to inquire to the >> manufacturer >> and see what their failure rate is. >> >> Joe From pdonnel1 at san.rr.com Sat Sep 19 21:25:40 2009 From: pdonnel1 at san.rr.com (John & Pat Donnelly) Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2009 20:25:40 -0700 Subject: [TR] Touch up paint for Mallard #106 In-Reply-To: <10875518D1854A0D92E6A9B9B7C4113B@RossFamily> References: <10875518D1854A0D92E6A9B9B7C4113B@RossFamily> Message-ID: <000001ca39a2$08085750$181905f0$@rr.com> I seem to recall that Moss sold small paint samples. Not sure if you can order through the web site. I've had good luck getting paint from Tri-City Paint. NFI. Johnnie > -----Original Message----- > From: triumphs-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:triumphs- > bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Wayne > Sent: Saturday, September 19, 2009 5:09 PM > To: triumphs at autox.team.net > Subject: [TR] Touch up paint for Mallard #106 > > Any source for small bottles of touch-up paint for our cars? > I have Mallard #106 on my 73 TR6 and I have a couple of chipped areas I > would > like to touch up. > I looked through the small touch up bottles at the local Autozone, but > all I > get is a pimple face kid > who looks at me funny when I ask him for anything to do with a Triumph > TR6. > > Wayne > 73 TR6 > _______________________________________________ > > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > This list supported in part by the Vintage Triumph Register > http://www.vtr.org > > > Triumphs at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs > > > http://www.team.net/archive From pdonnel1 at san.rr.com Sat Sep 19 21:56:22 2009 From: pdonnel1 at san.rr.com (John & Pat Donnelly) Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2009 20:56:22 -0700 Subject: [TR] List Meeting at TFest Message-ID: <000001ca39a6$51ce9d50$f56bd7f0$@rr.com> Hi Folks, I'm sure quite a few of you will be attending Tfest/VTR in a week or so. I won't be getting in until Thursday afternoon, but would love to put some names and faces together. I'll be more than happy to buy you a cool one if something can be arranged. Anybody interested? Who can arrange this? Johnnie From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Sun Sep 20 00:21:29 2009 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2009 23:21:29 -0700 Subject: [TR] TR4A Sputtering - Partially Solved In-Reply-To: <6D6A7A48326D493788DD0ADD5D0128E3@joepentiumnew> Message-ID: <20090920062126714.IANS17198@cdptpa-omta04.mail.rr.com> > But there is not really much to the Pertronix unit that can > fail. Except > for magnets falling out, everything else is solid state. Heat is the mortal enemy of solid-state electronics; and always shortens their lifetime even if it doesn't cause an outright failure. Plus the Pertronix is known to have problems with overheating if the ignition is left on without the engine running. Randall PS, Joe, I really am sorry about what I wrote before. Don't know what possessed me; but I clearly didn't think before writing it. Randall From spitlist at cox.net Sun Sep 20 00:49:07 2009 From: spitlist at cox.net (Joe Curry) Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2009 23:49:07 -0700 Subject: [TR] TR4A Sputtering - Partially Solved In-Reply-To: <20090920062126714.IANS17198@cdptpa-omta04.mail.rr.com> References: <6D6A7A48326D493788DD0ADD5D0128E3@joepentiumnew> <20090920062126714.IANS17198@cdptpa-omta04.mail.rr.com> Message-ID: The Pertronics is advertised to operate between -50 and 300 degrees F. I can't imagine that a Triumph Distributer would be getting that hot. Plus, normally this sort of device will tend to either work or not without any gradual degradation in performance as I have seen described. So I am still scratching my head as to what the problem is or was. Ignition left on without the engine running? I can't think of any reason that anyone would do that intentionally. I think all our cars have an accessories position on the switch to operate the radio without running the car, don't they? And Apology accepted, Randall. Joe -----Original Message----- From: triumphs-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:triumphs-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Randall Sent: Saturday, September 19, 2009 11:21 PM To: triumphs at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [TR] TR4A Sputtering - Partially Solved > But there is not really much to the Pertronix unit that can > fail. Except > for magnets falling out, everything else is solid state. Heat is the mortal enemy of solid-state electronics; and always shortens their lifetime even if it doesn't cause an outright failure. Plus the Pertronix is known to have problems with overheating if the ignition is left on without the engine running. Randall PS, Joe, I really am sorry about what I wrote before. Don't know what possessed me; but I clearly didn't think before writing it. Randall This list supported in part by the Vintage Triumph Register http://www.vtr.org Triumphs at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs http://www.team.net/archive From jmwagner at greenheart.com Sun Sep 20 01:47:40 2009 From: jmwagner at greenheart.com (Justin Wagner) Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2009 00:47:40 -0700 Subject: [TR] Justin: Triumph World Logo Graphic wanted Message-ID: <4AB5DE1C.2050604@greenheart.com> Does anyone have a good black and white (preferably no color added), flat graphic image of the Triumph World logo? (i.e. not a hubcap photo, not a photo taken at an angle, etc.) I know I've seen it in the literature somewhere, but I don't recall where. Example Triumph World Logo (This one is a photo of a decal, I'd prefer an original graphic.) http://i2.ebayimg.com/04/i/05/c1/b7/1d_1_b.JPG From Dave1massey at cs.com Sun Sep 20 02:13:32 2009 From: Dave1massey at cs.com (Dave1massey at cs.com) Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2009 04:13:32 EDT Subject: [TR] TR4A Sputtering - Partially Solved Message-ID: In a message dated 9/18/2009 9:22:25 PM Central Daylight Time, spitlist at cox.net writes: > While you are at it, why not install a new Pertronix. It will be far > more > reliable and should it ever fail, you can just quickly slip in a set of > points and condenser to get you on your way. > I just puled a Pertronix out of a Spitfire yesterday at the car show and stuck in a Crane XR700 that I had just bought from a vendor for $10 (used). The symptom was the car would run up to 47 MPH and die. After coasting down to 42 it would start up again. Throttle position had no effect. Adding an electric fuel pump had no effect. Changing rotors had no effect. The Crane fixed it. So here's a case where the electronic system failed with "graceful degradation." Dave From TR4Zest at gmail.com Sun Sep 20 02:54:43 2009 From: TR4Zest at gmail.com (TR4Zest at gmail.com) Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2009 08:54:43 +0000 Subject: [TR] Touch up paint for Mallard #106 In-Reply-To: <10875518D1854A0D92E6A9B9B7C4113B@RossFamily> Message-ID: <000e0cd5a1ee2eaf6d0473fe8408@google.com> Try here: http://www.automotivetouchup.com/ Here is Mallard Green listed among the '73 colours: http://www.automotivetouchup.com/choosecolor/choosecolor.aspx?year=1973&make=Triumph&model=All+Models Brian On Sep 19, 2009 8:09pm, Wayne wrote: > Any source for small bottles of touch-up paint for our cars? > I have Mallard #106 on my 73 TR6 and I have a couple of chipped areas I > would > like to touch up. > I looked through the small touch up bottles at the local Autozone, but > all I > get is a pimple face kid > who looks at me funny when I ask him for anything to do with a Triumph > TR6. > Wayne > 73 TR6 > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > This list supported in part by the Vintage Triumph Register > http://www.vtr.org > Triumphs at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs > http://www.team.net/archive From Dave1massey at cs.com Sun Sep 20 03:26:39 2009 From: Dave1massey at cs.com (Dave1massey at cs.com) Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2009 05:26:39 EDT Subject: [TR] Off-topic -deadly floormats Message-ID: In a message dated 9/18/2009 6:10:26 PM Central Daylight Time, mkearns2 at gmail.com writes: > There was an article in the San Diego Union Tribune (a rag of a paper > btw) > from the head of some auto safety organization who insisted that the > floor > mats were not the real cause. According to him the ignition systems have > become so complex that electromagnetic interference can cause these types > of > occurrences. Since that article came out there have been many accounts > from > people reporting unexplained short term bursts of acceleration. > Typical non-technical jounalist, me thinks. EMI causing havoc in the ignition system would only cause the engine to misfire and reduce power. However, IF that car has "Drive-By-Wire,' or a servo actuated throttle, EMI could certainly cause the throttle to open without respect to the command coming from the gas pedal. Does this car have Drive-By-Wire? Dave From gprtech at frontiernet.net Sun Sep 20 04:36:25 2009 From: gprtech at frontiernet.net (George Richardson) Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2009 06:36:25 -0400 Subject: [TR] Off-topic -deadly floormats In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4AB605A9.6080104@frontiernet.net> An interesting note for those who might not be familiar, Volvo adopted a drive by wire system in 1999. The motor controlled throttle body was designed and supplied by Fiat. This has proven to be a major failure point in Volvos equipped with it. At least one fatality is said to be caused by it. The failure can cause stalling, engine fault lights and surges in acceleration. There was an NHTSA recall for some cars to fix the problem, but the real issue is the throttle body uses cheap file potentiometers as feedback, and they start to wear and accumulate dirt quickly. I've actually done a tear down of one to look into the problem with an idea for a proper upgrade to hall effect (no contact magnetic) sensors designed specifically for the job. You won't hear much about it of course, because Volvo is the "Safety car". George Richardson Dave1massey at cs.com wrote: > In a message dated 9/18/2009 6:10:26 PM Central Daylight Time, > mkearns2 at gmail.com writes: > >> There was an article in the San Diego Union Tribune (a rag of a paper >> btw) >> from the head of some auto safety organization who insisted that the >> floor >> mats were not the real cause. According to him the ignition systems have >> become so complex that electromagnetic interference can cause these types >> of >> occurrences. Since that article came out there have been many accounts >> from >> people reporting unexplained short term bursts of acceleration. >> >> > Typical non-technical jounalist, me thinks. EMI causing havoc in the > ignition system would only cause the engine to misfire and reduce power. > > However, IF that car has "Drive-By-Wire,' or a servo actuated throttle, EMI > could certainly cause the throttle to open without respect to the command > coming from the gas pedal. > > Does this car have Drive-By-Wire? > > Dave > _______________________________________________ > > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > This list supported in part by the Vintage Triumph Register > http://www.vtr.org > > > Triumphs at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs > > > http://www.team.net/archive > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4441 (20090919) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4441 (20090919) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com From terryrs at comcast.net Sun Sep 20 05:53:22 2009 From: terryrs at comcast.net (terryrs at comcast.net) Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2009 11:53:22 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [TR] TR4A Sputtering - Partially Solved In-Reply-To: <20090920062126714.IANS17198@cdptpa-omta04.mail.rr.com> Message-ID: <978516134.4062501253447602642.JavaMail.root@sz0059a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> > But there is not really much to the Pertronix unit that can > fail. B Except > for magnets falling out, everything else is solid state. Well...there is the routing of the little wires insde the dizzy cap.B Even if you think you've kept clearance from all moving parts...the tiniest rub at only the extremest wobble, and, well, you can wear the insulation off the wire, even if you don't actually damage the copper wire. Ask me how I know. Terry Smith, '59 TR3A New Hampshire From rccpl1 at yahoo.com Sun Sep 20 05:56:53 2009 From: rccpl1 at yahoo.com (john doe) Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2009 04:56:53 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [TR] short block Message-ID: <678431.4056.qm@web30403.mail.mud.yahoo.com> gm all anyone have a late model tr6 short block that they want to get rid of in the ny area in the 10965 area code let me know thanks From anabil007 at comcast.net Sun Sep 20 08:46:24 2009 From: anabil007 at comcast.net (Bill) Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2009 07:46:24 -0700 Subject: [TR] Touch up paint for Mallard #106 In-Reply-To: <000e0cd5a1ee2eaf6d0473fe8408@google.com> References: <000e0cd5a1ee2eaf6d0473fe8408@google.com> Message-ID: I have had good success going to a AUTO Paint store ... note the emphasis on AUTO ... they would custom mix any color you wanted. A small touch-up bottle was about $20, but it matched perfectly ... -- "Thinking is the hardest work there is. That's why so few people undertake it." - Henry Ford Bill Pugh 1957 TR3 "Casper" TS16765L Wallace, CA From Dave1massey at cs.com Sun Sep 20 09:14:10 2009 From: Dave1massey at cs.com (Dave1massey at cs.com) Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2009 11:14:10 EDT Subject: [TR] Touch up paint for Mallard #106 Message-ID: In a message dated 9/20/2009 9:51:47 AM Central Daylight Time, anabil007 at comcast.net writes: > I have had good success going to a AUTO Paint store ... note the > emphasis on AUTO ... they would custom mix any color you wanted. A > small touch-up bottle was about $20, but it matched perfectly ... > Some have scanners and can mix paint that will match out faded version of the original. Dave From Loumetelko at aol.com Sun Sep 20 09:36:02 2009 From: Loumetelko at aol.com (Loumetelko at aol.com) Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2009 11:36:02 EDT Subject: [TR] Justin: Triumph World Logo Graphic wanted Message-ID: Justin: A note to Jeff Krupp, newsletter editor for TRA or Mike Cook, newsletter editor for VTR should get results. Jeff is at _jkrupp at wowway.com_ (mailto:jkrupp at wowway.com) Mike is at _mcook at vtr.org_ (mailto:mcook at vtr.org) Lou Metelko Auburn, Indiana 54 TR2LD In a message dated 9/20/2009 3:51:34 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, jmwagner at greenheart.com writes: Does anyone have a good black and white (preferably no color added), flat graphic image of the Triumph World logo? (i.e. not a hubcap photo, not a photo taken at an angle, etc.) I know I've seen it in the literature somewhere, but I don't recall where. Example Triumph World Logo (This one is a photo of a decal, I'd prefer an original graphic.) From jerrann at shaw.ca Sun Sep 20 10:09:58 2009 From: jerrann at shaw.ca (Jerry Goulet) Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2009 09:09:58 -0700 Subject: [TR] TR4A Sputtering - Partially Solved Message-ID: <803o7a$4di6ek@pd4mo1so-svcs.prod.shaw.ca> I was once showing someone how easily the Pertronics installed (and concealed) and when I replaced the dizzy cap, I inadvertently got the rubber Pertronics wire in a position where it would be snagged by the rotor. As soon as I cranked the engine, the wire was pulled out of the body of the Pertronics unit and of course points were temporarily installed to get home. I then used a Dremmel to grind out some of the plastic Pertronics body to solder in the wire and reinforced the joint with some glue. It runs just fine before and since and I would not use points again except for emergency measures. Other than that, the most common problem that I have observed is the lousy rotors that seem to be everywhere these days. Cheap, so called "will fit" rotors have been headaches even for those who still run points. If the Pertronics is installed properly as per the instructions and there is an associated performance problem, such as a miss or RPM related issue, then I would look elsewhere rather than blame the Pertronics too quickly. Cheers, Jerry 1961 TR3A From FordneyNJ at aol.com Sun Sep 20 10:34:33 2009 From: FordneyNJ at aol.com (FordneyNJ at aol.com) Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2009 12:34:33 EDT Subject: [TR] Touchup paint Message-ID: Here is a place you can try. _http://www.automotivetouchup.com/index.htm_ (http://www.automotivetouchup.com/index.htm) Rodney Ford, Brick, NJ President, Positive Earth Drivers Club TR4A IRS CTC 60536 L TR7 Spider TPVDJ8AA400612 Message: 7 Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2009 20:09:02 -0400 From: "Wayne" Subject: [TR] Touch up paint for Mallard #106 To: Message-ID: <10875518D1854A0D92E6A9B9B7C4113B at RossFamily> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Any source for small bottles of touch-up paint for our cars? I have Mallard #106 on my 73 TR6 and I have a couple of chipped areas I would like to touch up. I looked through the small touch up bottles at the local Autozone, but all I get is a pimple face kid who looks at me funny when I ask him for anything to do with a Triumph TR6. Wayne 73 TR6 From rpeglow at optonline.net Sun Sep 20 13:59:19 2009 From: rpeglow at optonline.net (Bob) Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2009 12:59:19 -0700 Subject: [TR] Touch up paint for Mallard #106 (Wayne) References: Message-ID: <000601ca3a2c$d7590d30$cbed7b45@gpcorporate.com> Wayne, Try Rimmer Bros. I ordered Signal Red from them and was pleased with the paint I received. http://www.rimmerbros.co.uk/Item--i-GRID007096 Regards, Bob > 7. Touch up paint for Mallard #106 (Wayne) > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > Message: 7 > Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2009 20:09:02 -0400 > From: "Wayne" > Subject: [TR] Touch up paint for Mallard #106 > To: > Message-ID: <10875518D1854A0D92E6A9B9B7C4113B at RossFamily> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Any source for small bottles of touch-up paint for our cars? > I have Mallard #106 on my 73 TR6 and I have a couple of chipped areas I would > like to touch up. > I looked through the small touch up bottles at the local Autozone, but all I > get is a pimple face kid > who looks at me funny when I ask him for anything to do with a Triumph TR6. > > Wayne > 73 TR6 E-mail message checked by Spyware Doctor (6.1.0.447) Database version: 6.13300 http://www.pctools.com/en/spyware-doctor-antivirus/ From pdonnel1 at san.rr.com Sun Sep 20 13:00:35 2009 From: pdonnel1 at san.rr.com (John & Pat Donnelly) Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2009 12:00:35 -0700 Subject: [TR] Low Oil Pressure - Life is good In-Reply-To: <000001ca3817$549e8a80$fddb9f80$@rr.com> References: <000001ca374e$d1d340a0$7579c1e0$@rr.com> <20090917060720122.DFDH9613@cdptpa-omta02.mail.rr.com> <000001ca3817$549e8a80$fddb9f80$@rr.com> Message-ID: <000301ca3a24$a3663aa0$ea32afe0$@rr.com> > The saga is far from over. Stay Tuned. > Went out for a drive today with a new oil pump, new rod bearings and new center main bearing. After 20 minutes of freeway driving at 3500 rpm the oil pressure actually increased. It started at 70, after 10 minutes went to 80 and stayed there, then I came to a stop. Idle pressure was at 30 lbs. So far, life is good. Then back on the freeway the pressure climbed up to 90 and stayed there. Came off the freeway after 10 minutes and idle pressure was at 30 again. Revving the engine didn't take the pressure to 90 again. Stuck (closed) relief valve?? So, I'm going to run it this way for a few days to see what happens. The pressure relief valve may need cleaning if the pressure spikes up again. As far as low oil pressure is concerned I believe mine was more due to the thrashed oil pump than anything else. The replaced bearings didn't look too bad, and the worst one, the rear, wasn't replaced. Johnnie '67 TR4A From wsb1960tr3a at att.net Sun Sep 20 14:45:20 2009 From: wsb1960tr3a at att.net (William Brewer) Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2009 13:45:20 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [TR] List Meeting at TFest Message-ID: <9147.34302.qm@web83308.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Hi Johnie, I'll be there and would enjoy meeting other listers. Maybe I can think up a place to meet. I am arriving Friday night. Bill Brewer Tehachapi, CA 1960 TR3A - red. cell 661-303-7372 Message: 4 Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2009 20:56:22 -0700 From: "John & Pat Donnelly" Subject: [TR] List Meeting at TFest To: Message-ID: <000001ca39a6$51ce9d50$f56bd7f0$@rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi Folks, I'm sure quite a few of you will be attending Tfest/VTR in a week or so. I won't be getting in until Thursday afternoon, but would love to put some names and faces together. I'll be more than happy to buy you a cool one if something can be arranged. Anybody interested? Who can arrange this? Johnnie From ahwahnee18 at gmail.com Sun Sep 20 15:00:35 2009 From: ahwahnee18 at gmail.com (Geo Hahn) Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2009 14:00:35 -0700 Subject: [TR] Triumphs Digest, Vol 3, Issue 441 In-Reply-To: <9A54639AE543426EB0202D4E1FCF3A6E@ranteer.local> References: <0MKp8S-1Mp8HU3tSl-000P5c@mrelay.perfora.net> <9A54639AE543426EB0202D4E1FCF3A6E@ranteer.local> Message-ID: <7bb181af0909201400x64c2e372nd20bee226dfedc46@mail.gmail.com> On 9/19/09, oliver wrote: > i've got a pertronix in my six, and it rocks! This is definitely a 'boxers vs briefs' discussion. No right answer (unless everyone wants to agree with me). Geo From wsb1960tr3a at att.net Sun Sep 20 15:03:58 2009 From: wsb1960tr3a at att.net (William Brewer) Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2009 14:03:58 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [TR] List Meeting at TFest Message-ID: <651437.83900.qm@web83305.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> The Tphest schedule looks pretty full. About 15 minutes from SLO is Morro Bay. In the south harbor near the golf course there is a bar/restaurant called "The Marina Cafe". They have a huge parking lot (for the boaters), a marina (duh) and the restaurant is very good. They have Windemere Heifeweizen wheat beer on tap (my favorite). It is also located about 5 minutes from the embarcadero where spouses can go shopping and site seeing. This could be a good meeting spot if we could fit it into the schedule. We could meet Sunday around noon or maybe Saturday evening after the TSD rally or something. Parking is a little scarce in SLO. We could just meet at the hotel where the Triumphest is taking place. I'd like to meet JonMac. Maybe we should just put signs on our windscreens that say "list member" or something. Who else on the list is coming? Anyone else have any other ideas about meeting places? Bill in Tehachapi From: "John & Pat Donnelly" Subject: [TR] List Meeting at TFest To: Message-ID: <000001ca39a6$51ce9d50$f56bd7f0$@rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi Folks, I'm sure quite a few of you will be attending Tfest/VTR in a week or so. I won't be getting in until Thursday afternoon, but would love to put some names and faces together. I'll be more than happy to buy you a cool one if something can be arranged. Anybody interested? Who can arrange this? From spitlist at cox.net Sun Sep 20 15:11:26 2009 From: spitlist at cox.net (Joe Curry) Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2009 14:11:26 -0700 Subject: [TR] Triumphs Digest, Vol 3, Issue 441 In-Reply-To: <7bb181af0909201400x64c2e372nd20bee226dfedc46@mail.gmail.com> References: <0MKp8S-1Mp8HU3tSl-000P5c@mrelay.perfora.net><9A54639AE543426EB0202D4E1FCF3A6E@ranteer.local> <7bb181af0909201400x64c2e372nd20bee226dfedc46@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Or maybe those new fangled "Boxer-Briefs" that are so popular! :) -----Original Message----- From: triumphs-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:triumphs-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Geo Hahn Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 2:01 PM To: TR List Subject: Re: [TR] Triumphs Digest, Vol 3, Issue 441 On 9/19/09, oliver wrote: > i've got a pertronix in my six, and it rocks! This is definitely a 'boxers vs briefs' discussion. No right answer (unless everyone wants to agree with me). Geo This list supported in part by the Vintage Triumph Register http://www.vtr.org Triumphs at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs http://www.team.net/archive From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Sun Sep 20 15:27:03 2009 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2009 14:27:03 -0700 Subject: [TR] Triumphs Digest, Vol 3, Issue 441 In-Reply-To: <7bb181af0909201400x64c2e372nd20bee226dfedc46@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090920212704036.LHJF26357@cdptpa-omta03.mail.rr.com> > No right answer (unless everyone wants to agree with me). Agree with you? I don't even agree with myself! Eventually, I plan to try using a Pertronix to trigger a MSD box, for the 'hot rod' TR3 motor. But most likely, I'll be driving to TRfest on 30 year old points. Randall From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Sun Sep 20 15:37:02 2009 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2009 14:37:02 -0700 Subject: [TR] List Meeting at TFest In-Reply-To: <651437.83900.qm@web83305.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20090920213702919.TCVD6569@cdptpa-omta01.mail.rr.com> > Who else on the list is coming? I'll be there. Not sure if I can find my official list windscreen decal; but I'll definitely be wearing an official list T-shirt (at least part of the time). And obviously (I hope!) Jonmac IS invited! Randall From spitlist at cox.net Sun Sep 20 15:47:00 2009 From: spitlist at cox.net (Joe Curry) Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2009 14:47:00 -0700 Subject: [TR] Triumphs Digest, Vol 3, Issue 441 In-Reply-To: <20090920212704036.LHJF26357@cdptpa-omta03.mail.rr.com> References: <7bb181af0909201400x64c2e372nd20bee226dfedc46@mail.gmail.com> <20090920212704036.LHJF26357@cdptpa-omta03.mail.rr.com> Message-ID: <4CF13F3E359F4E05AD901B42C999DC5B@joepentiumnew> -----Original Message----- Eventually, I plan to try using a Pertronix to trigger a MSD box, for the 'hot rod' TR3 motor. But most likely, I'll be driving to TRfest on 30 year old points. Randall That is what I did on Tiny Tim before swapping the Triumph lump for the Honda VTEC. As a trigger, it worked flawlessly. Joe From spitlist at cox.net Sun Sep 20 15:55:55 2009 From: spitlist at cox.net (Joe Curry) Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2009 14:55:55 -0700 Subject: [TR] List Meeting at TFest In-Reply-To: <20090920213702919.TCVD6569@cdptpa-omta01.mail.rr.com> References: <651437.83900.qm@web83305.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <20090920213702919.TCVD6569@cdptpa-omta01.mail.rr.com> Message-ID: I plan on bringing a bunch of those decals with me if anyone wants one. They are only 2 bucks each! Joe -----Original Message----- From: triumphs-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:triumphs-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Randall Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 2:37 PM To: 'Triumphs' Subject: Re: [TR] List Meeting at TFest > Who else on the list is coming? I'll be there. Not sure if I can find my official list windscreen decal; but I'll definitely be wearing an official list T-shirt (at least part of the time). And obviously (I hope!) Jonmac IS invited! Randall This list supported in part by the Vintage Triumph Register http://www.vtr.org Triumphs at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs http://www.team.net/archive From pethier at comcast.net Sun Sep 20 21:19:14 2009 From: pethier at comcast.net (pethier at comcast.net) Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 03:19:14 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [TR] List Meeting at TFest In-Reply-To: <20090920213702919.TCVD6569@cdptpa-omta01.mail.rr.com> Message-ID: <941483784.3604451253503154738.JavaMail.root@sz0119a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> I'll be there. White survivor TR4 with red tape stripes on the sided and red seats. Minnesota license plate TR44SUE. Didn't get my list grill badge mounted yet. Still is hope... Phil Ethier West Side Saint Paul Minnesota USA 1962 Triumph TR4 CT2846L 1979 Caterham 7 1993 Suburban 1994 Miata C-package 2007 Saturn Ion 3 2.4 http://www.triumphtransamerica.org.uk http://forum.mnautox.com/forums http://www.flickr.com/photos/pethier ----- "Randall" wrote: > From: "Randall" > To: "Triumphs" > Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 2:37:02 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific > Subject: Re: [TR] List Meeting at TFest > > > Who else on the list is coming? > > I'll be there. Not sure if I can find my official list windscreen > decal; > but I'll definitely be wearing an official list T-shirt (at least part > of > the time). > > And obviously (I hope!) Jonmac IS invited! > > Randall > _______________________________________________ > > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > This list supported in part by the Vintage Triumph Register > http://www.vtr.org > > > Triumphs at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs > > > http://www.team.net/archive From triumph.driver at gmail.com Sun Sep 20 21:26:12 2009 From: triumph.driver at gmail.com (Chuck White) Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2009 23:26:12 -0400 Subject: [TR] List Meeting at TFest In-Reply-To: <651437.83900.qm@web83305.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <651437.83900.qm@web83305.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5ADBEF3B63CA46149EC6D1371B5E6A71@chuck> Mr Brewer asked: "Who else on the list is coming?" Ted Allison and I will be driving in from the Dayton, Ohio area. Chuck White Xenia, OH 1965 TR4A IRS 1970 GT6+ From pdonnel1 at san.rr.com Sun Sep 20 22:16:41 2009 From: pdonnel1 at san.rr.com (John & Pat Donnelly) Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2009 21:16:41 -0700 Subject: [TR] List Meeting at TFest In-Reply-To: <651437.83900.qm@web83305.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <651437.83900.qm@web83305.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000101ca3a72$52dc1c00$f8945400$@rr.com> > Anyone else have any other ideas about meeting places? > Looking at the schedule, it's pretty tight. Maybe we can piggyback off one of the tech sessions? My guess is that most of us will be there anyway, so how about we have an after-meeting meeting at the hotel bar? It'll be happy hour about that time too! Tech sessions are Wed at 4:30, Thurs and Fri at 4 PM. Johnnie From wensley_tr at comcast.net Mon Sep 21 06:12:08 2009 From: wensley_tr at comcast.net (Craig) Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 08:12:08 -0400 Subject: [TR] OT - Warehouse 13 -> Artie's car? In-Reply-To: <6E2D3A6CFA6E4F1FB1DAD6F7D2DF38E5@joepentiumnew> References: <4AB448AC.9060008@comcast.net> <6E2D3A6CFA6E4F1FB1DAD6F7D2DF38E5@joepentiumnew> Message-ID: <003401ca3ab4$be2b1820$3a814860$@net> That's true Joe..But you're our leader Craig -----Original Message----- From: triumphs-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:triumphs-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Joe Curry Sent: Saturday, September 19, 2009 1:47 AM To: 'Michael Lang'; 'triumph list' Subject: Re: [TR] OT - Warehouse 13 -> Artie's car? It's nice to know I am not the only Nerd on this list! :) Joe -----Original Message----- From: triumphs-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:triumphs-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Michael Lang Sent: Friday, September 18, 2009 7:58 PM To: triumph list Subject: [TR] OT - Warehouse 13 -> Artie's car? I have been watching Warehouse 13 on the SciFi channel. Does anybody know what kind of car Artie has in the show? Sort of looks like an old MG or Jag, but I haven't been able to figure it out for sure. Mike This list supported in part by the Vintage Triumph Register http://www.vtr.org Triumphs at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs http://www.team.net/archive This list supported in part by the Vintage Triumph Register http://www.vtr.org Triumphs at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs http://www.team.net/archive From pfischer at rmi.net Mon Sep 21 07:15:20 2009 From: pfischer at rmi.net (Pat Fischer) Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 08:15:20 -0500 Subject: [TR] List Meeting at TFest In-Reply-To: <000001ca39a6$51ce9d50$f56bd7f0$@rr.com> References: <000001ca39a6$51ce9d50$f56bd7f0$@rr.com> Message-ID: <4AB77C68.6080909@rmi.net> White 250 from Kansas coming. We're both looking forward to meeting you all! Please keep the list updated as to a meeting place. Pat Fischer Roger Elliott John & Pat Donnelly wrote: > Hi Folks, > > I'm sure quite a few of you will be attending Tfest/VTR in a week or so. I > won't be getting in until Thursday afternoon, but would love to put some > names and faces together. I'll be more than happy to buy you a cool one if > something can be arranged. Anybody interested? Who can arrange this? > > Johnnie From jimmuller at rcn.com Mon Sep 21 07:19:31 2009 From: jimmuller at rcn.com (Jim Muller) Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 09:19:31 -0400 Subject: [TR] OT - Warehouse 13 -> Artie's car? In-Reply-To: <003401ca3ab4$be2b1820$3a814860$@net> References: <6E2D3A6CFA6E4F1FB1DAD6F7D2DF38E5@joepentiumnew> Message-ID: <4AB74523.11098.D6AAE32@localhost> On 21 Sep 2009 at 8:12, Craig wrote: > That's true Joe..But you're our leader Anyone who uses a computer to advance her/his LBC experience is by definition a nerd. -- Jim Muller, typing on his computer to the Tr list From spitlist at cox.net Mon Sep 21 08:45:48 2009 From: spitlist at cox.net (Joe Curry) Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 07:45:48 -0700 Subject: [TR] OT - Warehouse 13 -> Artie's car? In-Reply-To: <003401ca3ab4$be2b1820$3a814860$@net> References: <4AB448AC.9060008@comcast.net> <6E2D3A6CFA6E4F1FB1DAD6F7D2DF38E5@joepentiumnew> <003401ca3ab4$be2b1820$3a814860$@net> Message-ID: <9BB17B1724C2418A8A3989F9FEDBB698@joepentiumnew> Live Long and Prosper! Joe -----Original Message----- From: Craig [mailto:wensley_tr at comcast.net] Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 5:12 AM To: 'Joe Curry'; 'Michael Lang'; 'triumph list' Subject: RE: [TR] OT - Warehouse 13 -> Artie's car? That's true Joe..But you're our leader Craig -----Original Message----- From: triumphs-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:triumphs-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Joe Curry Sent: Saturday, September 19, 2009 1:47 AM To: 'Michael Lang'; 'triumph list' Subject: Re: [TR] OT - Warehouse 13 -> Artie's car? It's nice to know I am not the only Nerd on this list! :) Joe -----Original Message----- From: triumphs-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:triumphs-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Michael Lang Sent: Friday, September 18, 2009 7:58 PM To: triumph list Subject: [TR] OT - Warehouse 13 -> Artie's car? I have been watching Warehouse 13 on the SciFi channel. Does anybody know what kind of car Artie has in the show? Sort of looks like an old MG or Jag, but I haven't been able to figure it out for sure. Mike This list supported in part by the Vintage Triumph Register http://www.vtr.org Triumphs at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs http://www.team.net/archive This list supported in part by the Vintage Triumph Register http://www.vtr.org Triumphs at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs http://www.team.net/archive From spitlist at cox.net Mon Sep 21 08:50:05 2009 From: spitlist at cox.net (Joe Curry) Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 07:50:05 -0700 Subject: [TR] OT - Warehouse 13 -> Artie's car? In-Reply-To: <4AB74523.11098.D6AAE32@localhost> References: <6E2D3A6CFA6E4F1FB1DAD6F7D2DF38E5@joepentiumnew> <4AB74523.11098.D6AAE32@localhost> Message-ID: <63C70DB0B0754361AC3AD5C2073DB230@joepentiumnew> Some go willingly while others must be dragged kicking and screaming! JOe -----Original Message----- From: triumphs-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:triumphs-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Jim Muller Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 6:20 AM To: Triumph list Subject: Re: [TR] OT - Warehouse 13 -> Artie's car? On 21 Sep 2009 at 8:12, Craig wrote: > That's true Joe..But you're our leader Anyone who uses a computer to advance her/his LBC experience is by definition a nerd. -- Jim Muller, typing on his computer to the Tr list This list supported in part by the Vintage Triumph Register http://www.vtr.org Triumphs at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs http://www.team.net/archive From jholekamp at sbcglobal.net Mon Sep 21 08:57:39 2009 From: jholekamp at sbcglobal.net (Jay Holekamp) Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 07:57:39 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [TR] List Meeting at TFest Message-ID: <800224.51702.qm@web80403.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Murry Bruskin (red TR3A) & I (green TR4 w/ list decal on windshield) will depart the Chicago area on Fri for SLO - ETA mid-day Wed. brgds, Jay '64 Triumph TR4 since '67 From TR250Driver at aol.com Mon Sep 21 09:23:03 2009 From: TR250Driver at aol.com (TR250Driver at aol.com) Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 11:23:03 EDT Subject: [TR] List Meeting at TFest Message-ID: In a message dated 9/20/2009 12:06:35 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, pdonnel1 at san.rr.com writes: Johnnie, I will be leaving this Friday morning with Bob Palmer for Triumhpest from Akron, OH in my Hybrid Durango with my Pharaoh Gold 81 TR7 in tow unless I switch to the 71 Laurel TR6. Anyone have an opinion on which to bring? I know I'm a whimp for towing but we hope to be there by Monday to enjoy the West Coast to the Max. I can see the stars as I walk down Hollywood Boulevard. Besides I am hauling nearly 400 lbs of VTR Awards, Master Trophies, Judging forms and reference materials. That's my excuse and I'm sticking to it. See any of you at the Judging school Thursday @ 2:00PM? I will bring my List grill badge. T-Shirts? Where do you get those? Darrell VTR Chief Judge The TR6 gets to go to a lot of national events. The TR7 has only been to the national VTR NATC in Albany, NY and the VTR NATC in Portland. OR. The TR6 is of course "Hairy Chested" and the last of the true Triumph full framed sportscars. The TR7 is a FI one and really a very nice cruising car, but is it a real Triumph? It is the NOS one I bought as a new car in 1996. It currently has 8,500 miles on the clock. From spitlist at cox.net Mon Sep 21 09:33:44 2009 From: spitlist at cox.net (Joe Curry) Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 08:33:44 -0700 Subject: [TR] List Meeting at TFest In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Bring both! I will be bringing both my Spitfires! :) Joe -----Original Message----- From: triumphs-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:triumphs-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of TR250Driver at aol.com Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 8:23 AM To: pdonnel1 at san.rr.com Cc: triumphs at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [TR] List Meeting at TFest In a message dated 9/20/2009 12:06:35 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, pdonnel1 at san.rr.com writes: Johnnie, I will be leaving this Friday morning with Bob Palmer for Triumhpest from Akron, OH in my Hybrid Durango with my Pharaoh Gold 81 TR7 in tow unless I switch to the 71 Laurel TR6. Anyone have an opinion on which to bring? I know I'm a whimp for towing but we hope to be there by Monday to enjoy the West Coast to the Max. I can see the stars as I walk down Hollywood Boulevard. Besides I am hauling nearly 400 lbs of VTR Awards, Master Trophies, Judging forms and reference materials. That's my excuse and I'm sticking to it. See any of you at the Judging school Thursday @ 2:00PM? I will bring my List grill badge. T-Shirts? Where do you get those? Darrell VTR Chief Judge The TR6 gets to go to a lot of national events. The TR7 has only been to the national VTR NATC in Albany, NY and the VTR NATC in Portland. OR. The TR6 is of course "Hairy Chested" and the last of the true Triumph full framed sportscars. The TR7 is a FI one and really a very nice cruising car, but is it a real Triumph? It is the NOS one I bought as a new car in 1996. It currently has 8,500 miles on the clock. This list supported in part by the Vintage Triumph Register http://www.vtr.org Triumphs at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs http://www.team.net/archive From areich at telus.net Mon Sep 21 11:18:56 2009 From: areich at telus.net (Allan Reich) Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 10:18:56 -0700 Subject: [TR] List Meeting at TFest Message-ID: <4AB7B580.6040002@telus.net> I'll be there .. red 1960 TR3 .. "LIST" Badge bar on the badge bar, along with "VTR" and "BCTR" Allan Reich BC TRiumph Registry Vancouver From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Mon Sep 21 12:42:34 2009 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 11:42:34 -0700 Subject: [TR] List Meeting at TFest In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > T-Shirts? Where do you get those? I'm not sure you can, Darrell. Some list members got together a few years back and did a group buy. Just a grey Haynes T-shirt, with an embroidered Triumph World emblem and a legend around that. Unfortunately I've forgotten who the supplier was, perhaps it was Ralph Janelli? -- Randall From spitlist at cox.net Mon Sep 21 13:35:14 2009 From: spitlist at cox.net (Joe Curry) Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 12:35:14 -0700 Subject: [TR] List Meeting at TFest In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2A2503DC3CD049569D8C769B51304818@joepentiumnew> A few years ago Ralph Janelli did some T-Shirts and hats with the list logo (he used my artwork). I don't know if he is still doing them or not but it doesn't hurt to ask. His company is called Fourth Gear Ltd. Joe -----Original Message----- From: triumphs-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:triumphs-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Randall Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 11:43 AM Cc: triumphs at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [TR] List Meeting at TFest > T-Shirts? Where do you get those? I'm not sure you can, Darrell. Some list members got together a few years back and did a group buy. Just a grey Haynes T-shirt, with an embroidered Triumph World emblem and a legend around that. Unfortunately I've forgotten who the supplier was, perhaps it was Ralph Janelli? -- Randall This list supported in part by the Vintage Triumph Register http://www.vtr.org Triumphs at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs http://www.team.net/archive From rhelman at gmail.com Mon Sep 21 15:37:19 2009 From: rhelman at gmail.com (Roger Helman) Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 14:37:19 -0700 Subject: [TR] Triumph GT6 Group 44 Race Car Message-ID: <779de48e0909211437n43257175n85d504d6bc02b959@mail.gmail.com> Just noticed on Jay Leno's web site ( http://www.jaylenosgarage.com/cars/ ) he is going to have a Triumph GT6 Group 44 Race Car on his website Sept 28th. Roger From tochilds at bellsouth.net Mon Sep 21 16:22:43 2009 From: tochilds at bellsouth.net (Tony Childs) Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 18:22:43 -0400 Subject: [TR] List Meeting at TFest In-Reply-To: <2A2503DC3CD049569D8C769B51304818@joepentiumnew> References: <2A2503DC3CD049569D8C769B51304818@joepentiumnew> Message-ID: <007801ca3b0a$0aceb0b0$206c1210$@net> Ralph is still in business. Here is the link to his website: http://www.fourth-gear-ltd.com/. He just bought a new Mini for his daily driver! Tony Childs Anderson, SC '72 Spitfire MKIV FK38809UO -----Original Message----- From: triumphs-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:triumphs-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Joe Curry Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 3:35 PM To: 'Randall' Cc: triumphs at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [TR] List Meeting at TFest A few years ago Ralph Janelli did some T-Shirts and hats with the list logo (he used my artwork). I don't know if he is still doing them or not but it doesn't hurt to ask. His company is called Fourth Gear Ltd. Joe -----Original Message----- From: triumphs-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:triumphs-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Randall Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 11:43 AM Cc: triumphs at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [TR] List Meeting at TFest > T-Shirts? Where do you get those? I'm not sure you can, Darrell. Some list members got together a few years back and did a group buy. Just a grey Haynes T-shirt, with an embroidered Triumph World emblem and a legend around that. Unfortunately I've forgotten who the supplier was, perhaps it was Ralph Janelli? -- Randall This list supported in part by the Vintage Triumph Register http://www.vtr.org Triumphs at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs http://www.team.net/archive This list supported in part by the Vintage Triumph Register http://www.vtr.org Triumphs at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs http://www.team.net/archive From stantr6 at comcast.net Mon Sep 21 17:10:45 2009 From: stantr6 at comcast.net (stantr6 at comcast.net) Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 23:10:45 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [TR] TR Servo Rebuilder - Diaphragm source In-Reply-To: <1365CD24-313C-45ED-AD56-C5FD288FBB90@blakedischer.com> Message-ID: <1502388774.5441261253574645245.JavaMail.root@sz0153a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> List, Does anyone out there know where I can purchase a diaphragm for a TR6 brake servo ? Years ago, I came across two old units, plus the one on my '74 TR6, that I was restoring. I opened all three, discovered my original was torn, apparently at manufacture. I replaced it with the better of the other two diaphragms, had best can powdercoated (kept mating surfaces bare), replaced the other components with new, from TRF, and reassembled. Now, I would like to assemble another, but rubber diaphragms seem to be a controlled substance. thanx, Stan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Blake J. Discher" To: "Triumph List" Sent: Tuesday, September 1, 2009 12:04:51 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: [TR] Servo rebuilder Partco - follow up On Aug 29, 2009, at 10:24 PM, Blake J. Discher wrote: > Does anyone know if Partco is still around and rebuilding brake > boosters? ISTR they were a reasonably priced source and in > Cincinnati, Ohio. Getting the TR6 ready for the drive to Triumphest/ > NATC and the booster is sorely in need of attention. Thanks everyone for your help. It appears that Partco is kaput but Ted Schumacher contacted me to let me know he has rebuilt servos reasonably priced with exchange. I'm getting one from him. Cheers, Blake _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html This list supported in part by the Vintage Triumph Register http://www.vtr.org Triumphs at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs http://www.team.net/archive From tfansher at comcast.net Mon Sep 21 17:25:45 2009 From: tfansher at comcast.net (THOMAS FANSHER) Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 19:25:45 -0400 Subject: [TR] Triumph GT6 Group 44 Race Car References: <779de48e0909211437n43257175n85d504d6bc02b959@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: The car was at Jay's after the Monterey race. I don't know any more than that. Tom ----- Original Message ----- From: "Roger Helman" To: "Triumph Email List" Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 5:37 PM Subject: [TR] Triumph GT6 Group 44 Race Car > Just noticed on Jay Leno's web site ( > http://www.jaylenosgarage.com/cars/ ) > he is going to have a Triumph GT6 Group 44 Race Car on his website Sept > 28th. From StagByTriumph at triumphstagclub.org Mon Sep 21 17:35:49 2009 From: StagByTriumph at triumphstagclub.org (Glenn A. Merrell - TSN) Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 17:35:49 -0600 Subject: [TR] List Meeting at TFest In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4AB80DD5.6010802@triumphstagclub.org> Ah hem ... We'll be DRIVING our Triumph to T-Fest ... actually first to Monterey to get ready for the TTA Gran Finale Drive down 1A , 1268 miles one way. And ah, Blake Discher is driving his TR6?? If it is good enough for the President of VTR, it should be good enough for any of the board members! I am not sure what you guys are saving these things for, they were meant to be driven! People do not see them when cooped up in a freaking trailer! John Macartney has just driven over 14000 miles in the TTA Stag ... and he is 65 years old!! Darrell, you can put a tow hitch on the TR7 to hook a trailer for the trophies, won't even get a point reduction for the hitch! Okay, enough brow beating ... O:-) But if you guys are in Denver the 25th, let's do dinner and beers! We are leaving Denver the afternoon of the 26th. Meeting places: FWIW, We are staying in Pismo Beach, right on the cliffs overlooking the Pacific. We will be there every evening to watch the sun melt into the Pacific, so anyone interested, bring your Triumph, bring your chairs, blanket and beverages, bring your snacks and join us!! Best Western Cliff Shore Lodge on Price Street - nothing between you and the Pacific except the cliffs and a beach. other List and BCF Meeting opportunities: Wednesday at 5:30 will be a "TTA Gran Finale Toast" in the Host hotel "Atriumph Lounge" (atrium), then, Wednesday Thursday and Friday sunsets at Pismo Beach. -- Glenn Merrell TSN Admin http://www.triumphstag.net mailto:StagByTriumph at triumphstagclub.org Joe Curry wrote: > Bring both! I will be bringing both my Spitfires! :) > > Joe > > -----Original Message----- > From: triumphs-bounces at autox.team.net > [mailto:triumphs-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of TR250Driver at aol.com > Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 8:23 AM > To: pdonnel1 at san.rr.com > Cc: triumphs at autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [TR] List Meeting at TFest > > In a message dated 9/20/2009 12:06:35 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > pdonnel1 at san.rr.com writes: > > Johnnie, > > > I will be leaving this Friday morning with Bob Palmer for Triumhpest from > Akron, OH in my Hybrid Durango with my Pharaoh Gold 81 TR7 in tow unless I > switch to the 71 Laurel TR6. Anyone have an opinion on which to bring? I > know I'm a whimp for towing but we hope to be there by Monday to enjoy the > West Coast to the Max. I can see the stars as I walk down Hollywood > Boulevard. Besides I am hauling nearly 400 lbs of VTR Awards, Master > Trophies, > Judging forms and reference materials. That's my excuse and I'm sticking > to > it. See any of you at the Judging school Thursday @ 2:00PM? > > I will bring my List grill badge. T-Shirts? Where do you get those? > > Darrell > VTR Chief Judge > > The TR6 gets to go to a lot of national events. The TR7 has only been to > the national VTR NATC in Albany, NY and the VTR NATC in Portland. OR. The > TR6 is of course "Hairy Chested" and the last of the true Triumph full > framed sportscars. The TR7 is a FI one and really a very nice cruising car, > but > is it a real Triumph? It is the NOS one I bought as a new car in 1996. It > > currently has 8,500 miles on the clock. > This list supported in part by the Vintage Triumph Register > http://www.vtr.org From spitlist at cox.net Mon Sep 21 17:49:52 2009 From: spitlist at cox.net (Joe Curry) Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 16:49:52 -0700 Subject: [TR] List Meeting at TFest In-Reply-To: <4AB80DD5.6010802@triumphstagclub.org> References: <4AB80DD5.6010802@triumphstagclub.org> Message-ID: <1A1630BEC8C5433483EDF72946252F12@joepentiumnew> It is hard for one person to drive two Spitfires and take along all the other crap that I always bring to these events! :) Joe -----Original Message----- From: triumphs-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:triumphs-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Glenn A. Merrell - TSN Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 4:36 PM To: triumphs at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [TR] List Meeting at TFest Ah hem ... We'll be DRIVING our Triumph to T-Fest ... actually first to Monterey to get ready for the TTA Gran Finale Drive down 1A , 1268 miles one way. And ah, Blake Discher is driving his TR6?? If it is good enough for the President of VTR, it should be good enough for any of the board members! I am not sure what you guys are saving these things for, they were meant to be driven! People do not see them when cooped up in a freaking trailer! John Macartney has just driven over 14000 miles in the TTA Stag ... and he is 65 years old!! Darrell, you can put a tow hitch on the TR7 to hook a trailer for the trophies, won't even get a point reduction for the hitch! Okay, enough brow beating ... O:-) But if you guys are in Denver the 25th, let's do dinner and beers! We are leaving Denver the afternoon of the 26th. Meeting places: FWIW, We are staying in Pismo Beach, right on the cliffs overlooking the Pacific. We will be there every evening to watch the sun melt into the Pacific, so anyone interested, bring your Triumph, bring your chairs, blanket and beverages, bring your snacks and join us!! Best Western Cliff Shore Lodge on Price Street - nothing between you and the Pacific except the cliffs and a beach. other List and BCF Meeting opportunities: Wednesday at 5:30 will be a "TTA Gran Finale Toast" in the Host hotel "Atriumph Lounge" (atrium), then, Wednesday Thursday and Friday sunsets at Pismo Beach. -- Glenn Merrell TSN Admin http://www.triumphstag.net mailto:StagByTriumph at triumphstagclub.org Joe Curry wrote: > Bring both! I will be bringing both my Spitfires! :) > > Joe > > -----Original Message----- > From: triumphs-bounces at autox.team.net > [mailto:triumphs-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of TR250Driver at aol.com > Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 8:23 AM > To: pdonnel1 at san.rr.com > Cc: triumphs at autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [TR] List Meeting at TFest > > In a message dated 9/20/2009 12:06:35 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > pdonnel1 at san.rr.com writes: > > Johnnie, > > > I will be leaving this Friday morning with Bob Palmer for Triumhpest from > Akron, OH in my Hybrid Durango with my Pharaoh Gold 81 TR7 in tow unless I > switch to the 71 Laurel TR6. Anyone have an opinion on which to bring? I > know I'm a whimp for towing but we hope to be there by Monday to enjoy the > West Coast to the Max. I can see the stars as I walk down Hollywood > Boulevard. Besides I am hauling nearly 400 lbs of VTR Awards, Master > Trophies, > Judging forms and reference materials. That's my excuse and I'm sticking > to > it. See any of you at the Judging school Thursday @ 2:00PM? > > I will bring my List grill badge. T-Shirts? Where do you get those? > > Darrell > VTR Chief Judge > > The TR6 gets to go to a lot of national events. The TR7 has only been to > the national VTR NATC in Albany, NY and the VTR NATC in Portland. OR. The > TR6 is of course "Hairy Chested" and the last of the true Triumph full > framed sportscars. The TR7 is a FI one and really a very nice cruising car, > but > is it a real Triumph? It is the NOS one I bought as a new car in 1996. It > > currently has 8,500 miles on the clock. > This list supported in part by the Vintage Triumph Register > http://www.vtr.org This list supported in part by the Vintage Triumph Register http://www.vtr.org Triumphs at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs http://www.team.net/archive From L1J1S at aol.com Mon Sep 21 17:56:09 2009 From: L1J1S at aol.com (L1J1S at aol.com) Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 19:56:09 EDT Subject: [TR] tr- tr3 wiper motor Message-ID: hello, well i tried to hook up my wiper motor today and all i got was a small mist of smoke out of it. everything electrical is hooked up to the tr3-a except the three black wires for the wiper motor. i don't understand what happened to the motor. i did have it powder coated by great powder coater himself "FT". the motor then has been sitting around for a few years ever since. i want to keep the outer shell and would like to rebuild the one i have. does anyone have one they can spare? larry schwartz From StagByTriumph at triumphstagclub.org Mon Sep 21 18:49:57 2009 From: StagByTriumph at triumphstagclub.org (Glenn A. Merrell - TSN) Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 18:49:57 -0600 Subject: [TR] List Meeting at TFest In-Reply-To: <1A1630BEC8C5433483EDF72946252F12@joepentiumnew> References: <4AB80DD5.6010802@triumphstagclub.org> <1A1630BEC8C5433483EDF72946252F12@joepentiumnew> Message-ID: <4AB81F35.8020108@triumphstagclub.org> Amazing the stuff we accumulate to take along these days. =-O But many take stuff to help support your business and hobby, so some have an excuse. Back when we first bought Triumphs as "kids", at least those of us who had them as kids, we never took more than would fit in the trunk, nor did we ever really put much planning into it. I think the phrase was ... ROAD TRIP!!! -- Glenn Merrell TSN Admin http://www.triumphstag.net mailto:StagByTriumph at triumphstagclub.org Joe Curry wrote: > It is hard for one person to drive two Spitfires and take along all the > other crap that I always bring to these events! :) > > Joe From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Mon Sep 21 18:54:19 2009 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 17:54:19 -0700 Subject: [TR] List Meeting at TFest In-Reply-To: <4AB80DD5.6010802@triumphstagclub.org> References: <4AB80DD5.6010802@triumphstagclub.org> Message-ID: <459B57A06D9942CB879242795FD734E3@jdnet.deere.com> > Ah hem ... We'll be DRIVING our Triumph to T-Fest Towing your racecar behind it? That might be possible with a Stag, but I won't want to tow even an empty trailer with a Spitfire! -- Randall From StagByTriumph at triumphstagclub.org Mon Sep 21 19:20:00 2009 From: StagByTriumph at triumphstagclub.org (Glenn A. Merrell - TSN) Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 19:20:00 -0600 Subject: [TR] List Meeting at TFest - Tow the Triumph? In-Reply-To: <459B57A06D9942CB879242795FD734E3@jdnet.deere.com> References: <4AB80DD5.6010802@triumphstagclub.org> <459B57A06D9942CB879242795FD734E3@jdnet.deere.com> Message-ID: <4AB82640.7080808@triumphstagclub.org> Someone on this list tows a TR7 on a two wheel trailer behind their TR7 =-O I'm sure you remember that topic! Tell me that would not give some excitement in a panic stop! My nephew once towed a '72 Camaro with my old '67 Herald Salon - without my permission of course. That became very exciting too. Last time he ever did that stunt! -- Glenn Merrell TSN Admin http://www.triumphstag.net mailto:StagByTriumph at triumphstagclub.org Randall wrote: >> Ah hem ... We'll be DRIVING our Triumph to T-Fest >> > > Towing your racecar behind it? That might be possible with a Stag, but I > won't want to tow even an empty trailer with a Spitfire! > > -- Randall From sumton at sbcglobal.net Mon Sep 21 19:38:14 2009 From: sumton at sbcglobal.net (oliver) Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 20:38:14 -0500 Subject: [TR] a little help needed Message-ID: <962FF5C4236A4B91A775D98C65E7898F@ranteer.local> hi. i've got two hood pieces (from a 52 TD) that are currently in San Jose. I have several friends attending the convention in SLO. Would anyone have room in their SUV or trailer mind making a quick stop in San Jose and taking the parts to convention so they can be picked up? thanks. please contact me off list. From pcaffrey at ymail.com Mon Sep 21 21:02:57 2009 From: pcaffrey at ymail.com (P Caffrey) Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 20:02:57 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [TR] List Meeting at TFest In-Reply-To: <4AB81F35.8020108@triumphstagclub.org> References: <4AB80DD5.6010802@triumphstagclub.org> <1A1630BEC8C5433483EDF72946252F12@joepentiumnew> <4AB81F35.8020108@triumphstagclub.org> Message-ID: <366129.33952.qm@web59708.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> >Back when we first bought Triumphs as "kids", at least those of us who had them as kids, we never took more than would fit in the trunk, nor >did we ever really put much planning into it. Amen to that, Glenn....Hardly any planning when I drove my 4A to Reno on the spur of the moment around 10 PM from Sacramento, 31 years ago. I just had to make sure the fluid levels were topped off, including gas....The event in SLO will be a blast! Pat TR4A '67 ________________________________ From: Glenn A. Merrell - TSN To: Joe Curry ; triumphs at autox.team.net Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 5:49:57 PM Subject: Re: [TR] List Meeting at TFest Amazing the stuff we accumulate to take along these days. =-O But many take stuff to help support your business and hobby, so some have an excuse. Back when we first bought Triumphs as "kids", at least those of us who had them as kids, we never took more than would fit in the trunk, nor did we ever really put much planning into it. I think the phrase was ... ROAD TRIP!!! -- Glenn Merrell TSN Admin http://www.triumphstag.net mailto:StagByTriumph at triumphstagclub.org Joe Curry wrote: > It is hard for one person to drive two Spitfires and take along all the > other crap that I always bring to these events! :) > > Joe _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html This list supported in part by the Vintage Triumph Register http://www.vtr.org Triumphs at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs http://www.team.net/archive From spitlist at cox.net Mon Sep 21 21:25:12 2009 From: spitlist at cox.net (Joe Curry) Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 20:25:12 -0700 Subject: [TR] List Meeting at TFest In-Reply-To: <366129.33952.qm@web59708.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> References: <4AB80DD5.6010802@triumphstagclub.org> <1A1630BEC8C5433483EDF72946252F12@joepentiumnew> <4AB81F35.8020108@triumphstagclub.org> <366129.33952.qm@web59708.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: But now that we are older and hopefully a lot wiser, we pack for contingencies! :-) Joe _____ From: P Caffrey [mailto:pcaffrey at ymail.com] Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 8:03 PM To: StagByTriumph at triumphstagclub.org; Joe Curry; triumphs at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [TR] List Meeting at TFest >Back when we first bought Triumphs as "kids", at least those of us who had them as kids, we never took more than would fit in the trunk, nor >did we ever really put much planning into it. Amen to that, Glenn....Hardly any planning when I drove my 4A to Reno on the spur of the moment around 10 PM from Sacramento, 31 years ago. I just had to make sure the fluid levels were topped off, including gas....The event in SLO will be a blast! Pat TR4A '67 _____ From: Glenn A. Merrell - TSN To: Joe Curry ; triumphs at autox.team.net Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 5:49:57 PM Subject: Re: [TR] List Meeting at TFest Amazing the stuff we accumulate to take along these days. =-O But many take stuff to help support your business and hobby, so some have an excuse. Back when we first bought Triumphs as "kids", at least those of us who had them as kids, we never took more than would fit in the trunk, nor did we ever really put much planning into it. I think the phrase was ... ROAD TRIP!!! -- Glenn Merrell TSN Admin http://www.triumphstag.net mailto:StagByTriumph at triumphstagclub.org Joe Curry wrote: > It is hard for one person to drive two Spitfires and take along all the > other crap that I always bring to these events! :) > > Joe This list supported in part by the Vintage Triumph Register http://www.vtr.org Triumphs at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs http://www.team.net/archive From triumph74tr6 at yahoo.com Mon Sep 21 21:47:12 2009 From: triumph74tr6 at yahoo.com (Chad) Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 20:47:12 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [TR] TR Servo Rebuilder - Diaphragm source Message-ID: <267447.16511.qm@web37505.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I've heard that the diaphragm for '65 - '66 Mustangs can be used. These can be had from good Mustang parts suppliers. Chad in Tulsa Message: 5 Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 23:10:45 +0000 (UTC) From: stantr6 at comcast.net Subject: Re: [TR] TR Servo Rebuilder - Diaphragm source To: Triumph List Message-ID: <1502388774.5441261253574645245.JavaMail.root at sz0153a.westchester.pa.mail.com cast.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" List, Does anyone out there know where I can purchase a diaphragm for a TR6 brake servo ? Years ago, I came across two old units, plus the one on my '74 TR6, that I was restoring. I opened all three, discovered my original was torn, apparently at manufacture. I replaced it with the better of the other two diaphragms, had best can powdercoated (kept mating surfaces bare), replaced the other components with new, from TRF, and reassembled. Now, I would like to assemble another, but rubber diaphragms seem to be a controlled substance. thanx, Stan From mark at bradakis.com Mon Sep 21 23:53:18 2009 From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J Bradakis) Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 23:53:18 -0600 Subject: [TR] OT - Warehouse 13 -> Artie's car? In-Reply-To: <63C70DB0B0754361AC3AD5C2073DB230@joepentiumnew> References: <6E2D3A6CFA6E4F1FB1DAD6F7D2DF38E5@joepentiumnew> <4AB74523.11098.D6AAE32@localhost> <63C70DB0B0754361AC3AD5C2073DB230@joepentiumnew> Message-ID: <4AB8664E.7010902@bradakis.com> > Anyone who uses a computer to advance her/his LBC experience is by > definition a nerd. > So I've been using computers for 20 years to advance the LBC experience of ALL of you. What does that make me? Then again, do I want to know? Thanks to all those of you who have donated to the fund drive. You'll be pleased to know that your donations are going to maintain a clean, up to date, state of the art facility at the International Headquarters of Team.Net Consulting: http://www.team.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=20 mjb. From mark at bradakis.com Tue Sep 22 00:28:49 2009 From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J Bradakis) Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 00:28:49 -0600 Subject: [TR] Quick Team.Net history note In-Reply-To: <4AB8664E.7010902@bradakis.com> References: <6E2D3A6CFA6E4F1FB1DAD6F7D2DF38E5@joepentiumnew> <4AB74523.11098.D6AAE32@localhost> <63C70DB0B0754361AC3AD5C2073DB230@joepentiumnew> <4AB8664E.7010902@bradakis.com> Message-ID: <4AB86EA1.8040802@bradakis.com> > So I've been using computers for 20 years to advance the LBC experience > of ALL of you. What does that make me? Then again, do I want to know? > One thing I do know, which I probably should have mentioned in my first reply was that Jim Muller, a respondent to the Artie thread, was a major factor in what Team.Net became over the years. And whatever you do, do NOT google anything like Southern Rail bluegrass. mjb. From JoeCainPE at aol.com Tue Sep 22 01:44:47 2009 From: JoeCainPE at aol.com (JoeCainPE at aol.com) Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 03:44:47 EDT Subject: [TR] TTACD Activities, SF Bay Area, 9/24 - 9/30 Message-ID: You've heard about John Macartney's final weekend in the San Francisco Bay Area before Triumphest/VTR. The details follow. We have planned these events to be accessible to Triumph and other LBC enthusiasts throughout the Bay Area. Come spend the entire weekend, or tour with us for a day, or just meet John Macartney at one of the meet-and-greet stops. Thursday evening, 9/24. John will be speaking at a local Lions Club meeting in Corte Madera (North Bay). There is limited availability for local guests, with a nominal fee to cover dinner. Contact me if interested (e-mail preferred) and I will refer you to the event host. Friday, 9/25: Rest day for John & Liz in the North Bay. If we are successful with scheduling any morning phone-in interviews with local radio stations, I will post the information in advance as best we can. Saturday morning, 9/26: Meet at the Larkspur Ferry parking lot at 9:00 a.m. sharp for a San Francisco driving tour. The first departures for the tour will begin at 9:30 a.m., with a scenic route and scenic stops. Route maps will be distributed. There will be tour leaders, but the tour is considered self-guided. Drive across the Golden Gate Bridge, tour down Lombard Street -- the crookedest street in the world, see the view from Twin Peaks (if it's not fogged in), see Golden Gate Park and the Cliff House. Lunch at place of your choosing. The tour ends at the VA Hospital in Menlo Park. (NOT Palo Alto! The location was changed.) Saturday afternoon, 9/26: Meet and greet at 3:00 p.m. at the VA Hospital in Menlo Park (NOT Palo Alto, the location was changed), the location of their PTSD center. Put on a little show & shine for the veterans. Disperse at approximately 5:00 p.m. Those in attendance at the VA Hospital show & shine will be invited to a reception at a private residence Saturday evening. Sunday morning, 9/27: Meet at the Blackhawk Automotive Museum in Danville (East Bay) at 10:00 a.m. John speaks at 11:00 a.m. Lunch at restaurants nearby. We will hang out at the museum until about 2:00 p.m. This place is fantastic. The TTA Stag and other Triumphs are welcome to be prominently displayed at the museum entrance. Sunday afternoon, 9/27: Depart the Blackhawk Museum at 2:00 p.m. for an East Bay driving tour. Tour ends and disperses in Milpitas. Monday morning, 9/28: Meet at Hobee's Restaurant in Los Gatos at 9:00 a.m. for breakfast. Tour over the Santa Cruz mountains to the Canepa Museum in Scotts Valley. See things that go fast, as the Canepa Museum is about racing. Lunch stop after leaving the museum. Tour resumes to hand-off of lead at Moss Landing. Tuesday, 9/29: Rest day for John & Liz in the Monterey area. Wednesday morning, 9/30: Meet at the Rio Road Shopping Center in Carmel at Highway 1 and Rio Road at 8:30 a.m. Final TTACD tour departs Carmel at 9:00 a.m. and proceeds down Highway 1 to Triumphest/VTR at San Luis Obispo. Scenic photo stops and comfort stops along the way. Lunch in Cambria. We expect this caravan to get huge as we approach San Luis Obispo. If you don't make the 9:00 a.m. departure, it won't be difficult to catch up with us. If you are already in SLO, please head north and join us for the end of the tour. Wednesday afternoon, 9/30: We expect to arrive in SLO at 2:30 p.m. (to be verified), and we hope for a Grand Reception as we enter the parking lot of the Embassy Suites. We will post updates about this final tour. Please join us wherever you can! And please spread the word to Triumph and other LBC enthusiasts. Other LBC's are especially welcome at the Blackhawk Museum on Sunday. This message is long. If you reply to it within the group, please delete the original message so it is not copied multiple times. Happy Trails, Joe Cain Triumph Travelers Sports Car Club _JoeCainPE at aol.com_ (mailto:JoeCainPE at aol.com) 408-605-3934 (cell) 650-284-9825 (work cell, backup) From 75TR6 at tr6.danielsonfamily.org Tue Sep 22 11:38:43 2009 From: 75TR6 at tr6.danielsonfamily.org (Bob Danielson) Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 13:38:43 -0400 Subject: [TR] Eastwood Spring Compressor Message-ID: <26B4C5F07F414450B0D2D564230341B7@BOBSNEWPC> I know that external spring compressors usually don't work on our cars (TR6 for me) but Eastwood has an internal compressor http://tinyurl.com/myxohv that looks like it might work..... And it's cheaper than the Moss unit. They also have this external one http://tinyurl.com/kut2rj but I guess you'd run into the same space issue that most external ones have. What do you think? Bob Bob Danielson 1975 TR6 CF38503U Running w/ Throttle Body Injection Toyota 5 Speed & Nissan LSD http://tr6.danielsonfamily.org From lang at isis.mit.edu Tue Sep 22 11:51:34 2009 From: lang at isis.mit.edu (Robert Lang) Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 13:51:34 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [TR] [6pack] Eastwood Spring Compressor In-Reply-To: <26B4C5F07F414450B0D2D564230341B7@BOBSNEWPC> References: <26B4C5F07F414450B0D2D564230341B7@BOBSNEWPC> Message-ID: Let's see - $40 plus shipping vs. $5 plus 10 min of your time (to make your own spring compressor). Seems about even. :-) Seriously, I'd be concerned that the extended length would allow you to mount the thing like we need to do (on the top of the upper spring perch).... If the tool isn't long enough, you'd have to try catching the spring itself and there's not much space around the spring in the upper spring perch on the TR6 front end. rml --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Lang NER/SCCA | This space for rent Solo Chair 2009 TR6 40 F Prepared | Triumph! Voice:781-438-2568 FAX: 617-258-9535 | Cell: 339-927-4489 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Tue Sep 22 12:10:12 2009 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 11:10:12 -0700 Subject: [TR] Eastwood Spring Compressor In-Reply-To: <26B4C5F07F414450B0D2D564230341B7@BOBSNEWPC> References: <26B4C5F07F414450B0D2D564230341B7@BOBSNEWPC> Message-ID: > I know that external spring compressors usually don't work on our cars ... > What do you think? I think my fingers are worth more than the proper tool! That said, I use one that I made myself, from a bit of scrap from the bin (actually an old generator pulley half from a VW bug, I believe), some 3/4" threaded rod, nuts & washers from Home Depot. Works a treat. And since it actually pinches the spring between the spring pan and shock tower (just like the suspension does), there is no way it can slip off the spring. http://tinyurl.com/le3f46 I once picked up a spring that was compressed with the style you referenced at Eastwood, just as it slipped. I was lucky and only got my knuckles rapped ... the spring compressor wound up out in the street while the spring flew some 10 feet the other way. But it could have been a whole lot worse if it had been pointed at me or even if I'd just picked it up the other way. There is a LOT of energy in those things! -- Randall From yellowtr3 at yahoo.com Tue Sep 22 12:55:25 2009 From: yellowtr3 at yahoo.com (Frank Fisher) Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 11:55:25 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [TR] bead roller Message-ID: <784605.44499.qm@web111605.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> a long time ago i corresponded with someone on the list who had a bead roller. can you contact me off list please. thanks Frank 58 TR3 after 4 years i finally drove it again 7 days ago. broke down twice, but still love it From L1J1S at aol.com Tue Sep 22 14:31:49 2009 From: L1J1S at aol.com (L1J1S at aol.com) Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 16:31:49 EDT Subject: [TR] tr- tr moss show new jersey Message-ID: list, does anyone know the date for the moss motors car how that is held in new jersey usually in the month of september? larry schwartz From mark at bradakis.com Tue Sep 22 17:14:45 2009 From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J Bradakis) Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 17:14:45 -0600 Subject: [TR] Eastwood Spring Compressor In-Reply-To: <26B4C5F07F414450B0D2D564230341B7@BOBSNEWPC> References: <26B4C5F07F414450B0D2D564230341B7@BOBSNEWPC> Message-ID: <4AB95A65.9030204@bradakis.com> How do you propose to get the arms inside the spring where they need to be? No problem when the spring is already out on the bench, but what sort of clearance is needed with the spring in place on the car, as you remove or install it? mjb. From ahwahnee18 at gmail.com Tue Sep 22 18:34:51 2009 From: ahwahnee18 at gmail.com (Geo Hahn) Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 17:34:51 -0700 Subject: [TR] tr- tr3 wiper motor In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7bb181af0909221734s227a6007gb75476c4c78446cb@mail.gmail.com> You'll want to be double-darn sure you are wiring it correctly. The scheme changed over the years to a switched ground and many wiring diagrams will be incorrect for your car. Geo On 9/21/09, L1J1S at aol.com wrote: > hello, well i tried to hook up my wiper motor today and all i got was a > small mist of smoke out of it. everything electrical is hooked up to the > tr3-a > except the three black wires for the wiper motor. i don't understand what > happened to the motor. i did have it powder coated by great powder coater > himself "FT". the motor then has been sitting around for a few years ever > since. i want to keep the outer shell and would like to rebuild the one i > have. does anyone have one they can spare? larry schwartz From 75TR6 at tr6.danielsonfamily.org Tue Sep 22 18:35:45 2009 From: 75TR6 at tr6.danielsonfamily.org (Bob Danielson) Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 20:35:45 -0400 Subject: [TR] [6pack] Eastwood Spring Compressor In-Reply-To: References: <26B4C5F07F414450B0D2D564230341B7@BOBSNEWPC> Message-ID: <2214A0F5F0EE4A0F8565E777C00B8B28@BOBSNEWPC> Wow.... Tough crowd ;-) <~~~~that's a wink for the emoticon impaired :-) I should have prefaced my post by saying that I have a homemade spring compressor using 3/8" Acme threaded rod & nuts and 3/16" steel plate. Someone on the List told me long ago to only use Acme threaded rod due to the cut of the thread and the subsequent holding power. But I bet most guys grab generic rod not knowing the risk. My intent with the post was to see if anyone thought these compressors would work as an alternative to Moss or TRF. Some guys prefer to buy ready made........ It sounds like we're better off making or using the Moss/TRF type product. Bob Danielson 1975 TR6 CF38503U Running w/ Throttle Body Injection Toyota 5 Speed & Nissan LSD http://tr6.danielsonfamily.org From jimmuller at rcn.com Tue Sep 22 19:07:53 2009 From: jimmuller at rcn.com (Jim Muller) Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 21:07:53 -0400 Subject: [TR] anyone replacing carpet? Message-ID: <4AB93CA9.7138.5515140@localhost> My GT6 needs some new carpet. More specifically, most of the carpet is fine, old but with plenty of life left, but the section over the tranny tunnel was worn out long ago. The main suppliers have carpets sets but they are rather expensive when you consider that I don't need much. Nor do I want to go through the trouble of pulling and re- glueing if I don't have to, which makes all those other pieces redundant twice. Would any of you have a decent section of carpet for the tranny cover? Black. Thanks. -- Jim Muller jimmuller at rcn.com '80 Spitfire, '70 GT6+ From pdonnel1 at san.rr.com Tue Sep 22 19:45:19 2009 From: pdonnel1 at san.rr.com (John & Pat Donnelly) Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 18:45:19 -0700 Subject: [TR] [6pack] Eastwood Spring Compressor In-Reply-To: <2214A0F5F0EE4A0F8565E777C00B8B28@BOBSNEWPC> References: <26B4C5F07F414450B0D2D564230341B7@BOBSNEWPC> <2214A0F5F0EE4A0F8565E777C00B8B28@BOBSNEWPC> Message-ID: <000301ca3bef$828d95e0$87a8c1a0$@rr.com> You must have an "inside the spring" compression tool, not an outside one like most companies make for McPherson struts. I have a homemade one too! Kind of like the one Randall showed. Three-quarter inch rod stock. Works great, and I have no fears that the threads aren't capable of handling the pressure. Remember to use double nuts and big washers. No need to spend $45 for a $5 tool. Johnnie > -----Original Message----- > From: triumphs-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:triumphs- > bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Bob Danielson > Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 5:36 PM > To: triumphs at autox.team.net; 6pack at autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [TR] [6pack] Eastwood Spring Compressor > > Wow.... Tough crowd ;-) <~~~~that's a wink for the emoticon impaired > :-) > > I should have prefaced my post by saying that I have a homemade spring > compressor using 3/8" Acme threaded rod & nuts and 3/16" steel plate. > Someone on the List told me long ago to only use Acme threaded rod due > to > the cut of the thread and the subsequent holding power. But I bet most > guys > grab generic rod not knowing the risk. My intent with the post was to > see if > anyone thought these compressors would work as an alternative to Moss > or > TRF. Some guys prefer to buy ready made........ It sounds like we're > better > off making or using the Moss/TRF type product. > > > Bob Danielson > 1975 TR6 CF38503U > Running w/ Throttle Body Injection > Toyota 5 Speed & Nissan LSD > http://tr6.danielsonfamily.org > _______________________________________________ > > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > This list supported in part by the Vintage Triumph Register > http://www.vtr.org > > > Triumphs at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs > > > http://www.team.net/archive From wbeech at flash.net Tue Sep 22 19:46:47 2009 From: wbeech at flash.net (wbeech at flash.net) Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 19:46:47 -0600 Subject: [TR] tr- tr3 wiper motor In-Reply-To: <7bb181af0909221734s227a6007gb75476c4c78446cb@mail.gmail.com> References: <7bb181af0909221734s227a6007gb75476c4c78446cb@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Geo, I am have some issues too with my newly installed, self-rebuilt wiper motor. How can you know the difference and how to deal with it? Bill Bill Beecher '58 TR-3A TS/30766 L (On the road in 2009!) "A Triumph is man's best friend, it always comes when it is called...of course, some times it is difficult to make it go" -----Original Message----- From: triumphs-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:triumphs-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Geo Hahn Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 6:35 PM To: L1J1S at aol.com Cc: triumphs at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [TR] tr- tr3 wiper motor You'll want to be double-darn sure you are wiring it correctly. The scheme changed over the years to a switched ground and many wiring diagrams will be incorrect for your car. Geo On 9/21/09, L1J1S at aol.com wrote: > hello, well i tried to hook up my wiper motor today and all i got was > a small mist of smoke out of it. everything electrical is hooked up to > the tr3-a except the three black wires for the wiper motor. i don't > understand what happened to the motor. i did have it powder coated by > great powder coater himself "FT". the motor then has been sitting > around for a few years ever since. i want to keep the outer shell and > would like to rebuild the one i have. does anyone have one they can > spare? larry schwartz This list supported in part by the Vintage Triumph Register http://www.vtr.org Triumphs at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs http://www.team.net/archive From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Tue Sep 22 20:05:58 2009 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 19:05:58 -0700 Subject: [TR] [6pack] Eastwood Spring Compressor In-Reply-To: <2214A0F5F0EE4A0F8565E777C00B8B28@BOBSNEWPC> Message-ID: <20090923020558068.BWPN9613@cdptpa-omta02.mail.rr.com> > Someone on the List told me long ago to only use Acme > threaded rod due to > the cut of the thread and the subsequent holding power. Acme threads are stronger than V-threads of the same pitch and major diameter, because less of the diameter is taken up by the thread (larger minor diameter). But the advantage mostly disappears when compared to V-threads of finer pitch; and oddly enough, standard V-threads are finer pitch than standard ACME threads. I thought about using ACME rod; but Home Depot doesn't carry it, and the 3/4" V-thread rod I used is such total overkill anyway (tensile strength around 20,000 pounds) that it just didn't matter. I guarantee it can pull your 3/8" ACME in half without even noticing the load (though I might need to get out the strong impact gun instead of the wimpy one). http://tinyurl.com/mg2k5u Randall From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Tue Sep 22 20:09:09 2009 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 19:09:09 -0700 Subject: [TR] tr- tr3 wiper motor In-Reply-To: <7bb181af0909221734s227a6007gb75476c4c78446cb@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090923020908375.XAXY17198@cdptpa-omta04.mail.rr.com> > You'll want to be double-darn sure you are wiring it correctly. The > scheme changed over the years to a switched ground and many wiring > diagrams will be incorrect for your car. True. In addition, almost none of the diagrams note which wire goes to which terminal (1 or 2), and it is important. http://tinyurl.com/l9jkj7 Randall From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Tue Sep 22 20:52:18 2009 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 19:52:18 -0700 Subject: [TR] signals don't work In-Reply-To: <2D726F09FBE741BF92EB914BD9A8F775@ultimate7> Message-ID: <20090923025219294.DLRF1442@cdptpa-omta01.mail.rr.com> > All I need now is to get the rear ones working. I don't know > where that connection takes place, The wires from the rear turn lamps should emerge from the wiring harness near the LH horn. > or if it is not working because I have bypassed the > correct wires to connect the switch to the lights. Very likely. On the LH side (assuming this is a LHD car) just behind the horn, the GR wire from the LH rear lamp, the wire from the LH front lamp, and the GR wire from the steering box should all go into a 4-way sleeve. The 4th position may be vacant, or may be another GR wire in the harness, that actually runs over to the RH horn and doesn't do anything. (If the car was RHD, it would be the wire to the switch). Also on the LH side, the GW wire from the RH rear lamp, a GW wire from the other side of the car, and the GW wire from the switch should join in another 4-way connector (with the 4th position empty). Note that it does matter which wire from the front lamps is which, even though they probably won't have the factory color codes. One wire gives a dimmer light, the other a bright light. The turn signals should always be the bright light, the dim light is for parking. Note also that the sleeves sometimes fail internally. New ones are only about a buck, a worthwhile investment, IMO. > I also checked and the center post in the light socket for > the rear signals > seems to be grounded (+ ground), as I understand it, that > should not be > grounded and the outside of the socket is grounded via the screws that > attach it to the trunk. Can anyone confirm? That is correct. However, the center terminal might appear to be grounded if it were connected through the harness to the front lights. You'll need to disconnect the end near the LH horn to do a continuity check. Although it's not perfect, this diagram roughly shows the routing of wires through the harness: http://tinyurl.com/lcfvsk Feel free to download it and save on your hard drive. Someday I might fix it up to show the dash correctly, but not this year. Randall From spitlist at cox.net Tue Sep 22 21:15:51 2009 From: spitlist at cox.net (Joe Curry) Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 20:15:51 -0700 Subject: [TR] [Spits] anyone replacing carpet? In-Reply-To: <4AB93CA9.7138.5515140@localhost> References: <4AB93CA9.7138.5515140@localhost> Message-ID: Jim, Why not go to a local auto upholstery shop and see if they can match the color and pile of the one you have. I am sure that it will not be very expensive. Joe -----Original Message----- From: spitfires-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:spitfires-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Jim Muller Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 6:08 PM To: Triumph list; Spitfires at autox.team.net Subject: [Spits] anyone replacing carpet? My GT6 needs some new carpet. More specifically, most of the carpet is fine, old but with plenty of life left, but the section over the tranny tunnel was worn out long ago. The main suppliers have carpets sets but they are rather expensive when you consider that I don't need much. Nor do I want to go through the trouble of pulling and re- glueing if I don't have to, which makes all those other pieces redundant twice. Would any of you have a decent section of carpet for the tranny cover? Black. Thanks. -- Jim Muller jimmuller at rcn.com '80 Spitfire, '70 GT6+ You are subscribed as spitlist at cox.net Spitfires at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/spitfires http://www.team.net/archive From pdonnel1 at san.rr.com Tue Sep 22 21:19:47 2009 From: pdonnel1 at san.rr.com (John & Pat Donnelly) Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 20:19:47 -0700 Subject: [TR] Dinner Cruises at Tfest Message-ID: <000001ca3bfc$b4dc8a30$1e959e90$@rr.com> I was reviewing the agenda for the upcoming TFest and found "dinner cruises" for Friday evening. http://web.mac.com/sctoa/triumphest/Schedule_of_Events.html What is this? Are we driving? To where? Inquiring minds need to know. Johnnie From blambert at socal.rr.com Tue Sep 22 22:36:00 2009 From: blambert at socal.rr.com (D&B Lambert) Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 21:36:00 -0700 Subject: [TR] Dinner Cruises at Tfest In-Reply-To: <000001ca3bfc$b4dc8a30$1e959e90$@rr.com> Message-ID: <20090923043600116.CSBS29486@hrndva-omta01.mail.rr.com> Basically, the Tfest/VTR 2009 organizers have arranged for attendees to convoy in their Triumphs to local restaurants for dinner Friday evening. There will be a number of convoys, each to a different restaurant and usually limited to about 25 people or so. Each convoy will have a leader who has pre-arranged seating and parking for their TR group. You choose your group/restaurant in advance at the registration table; restaurant choices range from very casual to very nice. I think most restaurants are within a 15 mile radius of the host hotel. It's just a nice way to have a fun dinner with fellow Tfest/VTR attendees as well a see a bit of the countryside. I was introduced to this concept at NATC 2008 (VTR 2008) in Ypsilanti, MI, and it worked well. We had a good dinner in Ann Arbor with other TR folks and walked downtown Ann Arbor afterward - something we probably would have missed otherwise. And, as long as we are talking Tfest/VTR 2009, just a reminder that the AUTOCROSS is on THURSDAY instead of the traditional Friday. Details will be in the program and also on an info sheet in your registration packet, as well as at the registration desk. Dennis > I was reviewing the agenda for the upcoming TFest and found "dinner > cruises" for Friday evening. > > http://web.mac.com/sctoa/triumphest/Schedule_of_Events.html > > > > What is this? Are we driving? To where? > > > > Inquiring minds need to know. > > Johnnie From Dave1massey at cs.com Wed Sep 23 06:17:11 2009 From: Dave1massey at cs.com (Dave1massey at cs.com) Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 08:17:11 EDT Subject: [TR] anyone replacing carpet? Message-ID: In a message dated 9/22/2009 8:09:56 PM Central Daylight Time, jimmuller at rcn.com writes: > My GT6 needs some new carpet. More specifically, most of the carpet > is fine, old but with plenty of life left, but the section over the > tranny tunnel was worn out long ago. The main suppliers have carpets > sets but they are rather expensive when you consider that I don't > need much. Nor do I want to go through the trouble of pulling and re- > glueing if I don't have to, which makes all those other pieces > redundant twice. Would any of you have a decent section of carpet > for the tranny cover? Black. Thanks. > I dunno, Jim. Maybe you should just let nature take its course. If you replace that piece of carpet it will soon enough go bald again. Maybe your car is just trying to resemble its owner. ;-) Or you could try a comb-over. Dave P.S. I'd donate some of my old TR6 carpet but I tossed it out after the mice got to it. I don't think you'd want it anyway. From Dave1massey at cs.com Wed Sep 23 06:18:31 2009 From: Dave1massey at cs.com (Dave1massey at cs.com) Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 08:18:31 EDT Subject: [TR] anyone replacing carpet? Message-ID: In a message dated 9/22/2009 8:09:56 PM Central Daylight Time, jimmuller at rcn.com writes: > My GT6 needs some new carpet. More specifically, most of the carpet > is fine, old but with plenty of life left, but the section over the > tranny tunnel was worn out long ago. The main suppliers have carpets > sets but they are rather expensive when you consider that I don't > need much. Nor do I want to go through the trouble of pulling and re- > glueing if I don't have to, which makes all those other pieces > redundant twice. Would any of you have a decent section of carpet > for the tranny cover? Black. Thanks. > And now for something completely different. Have you checked with the Roadster Factory to see if you can buy that piece a la carte? Dave From Dave1massey at cs.com Wed Sep 23 06:30:26 2009 From: Dave1massey at cs.com (Dave1massey at cs.com) Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 08:30:26 EDT Subject: [TR] [6pack] Eastwood Spring Compressor Message-ID: In a message dated 9/22/2009 9:07:59 PM Central Daylight Time, tr3driver at ca.rr.com writes: > Acme threads are stronger than V-threads of the same pitch and major > diameter, because less of the diameter is taken up by the thread (larger > minor diameter). But the advantage mostly disappears when compared to > V-threads of finer pitch; and oddly enough, standard V-threads are finer > pitch than standard ACME threads. > > I thought about using ACME rod; but Home Depot doesn't carry it, and the > 3/4" V-thread rod I used is such total overkill anyway (tensile strength > around 20,000 pounds) that it just didn't matter. I guarantee it can pull > your 3/8" ACME in half without even noticing the load (though I might need > to get out the strong impact gun instead of the wimpy one). > Another advantage to Acme rods is that they will last longer. The threaded rod at the hardware stores is all grade 2 and with the locking threads (V-threads) they wear out. The one I used was good for about two spring changeouts. The ACME version has done at least 6 and look good as new. The coarser pitch of the ACME thread is an advantage when using a hand wrench. If you are going to use an impact wrench (which, BTW is advised against by the makers of store bought compressors) you will need a REALLY DEEP socket. Maybe you can't buy ACME threaded rod off the shelf but McMaster-Carr will gladly drop some off on your door step tomorrow. One other thing, ACME thread being the way it is, you can't double nut the top side and expect it to stay. So I drilled a hole and use a pin to lock the top nut in place. Dave From wsb1960tr3a at att.net Wed Sep 23 06:54:42 2009 From: wsb1960tr3a at att.net (William Brewer) Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 05:54:42 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [TR] TR3 Flasher Wiring Terminals Message-ID: <104324.33556.qm@web83303.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> I just bought a new turn signal flasher from MOSS. The wiring schematic for the TR3 shows the terminals as L, P & X, The new Lucas (I'm doomed) flasher's terminals are labeled B, P & I. I am assuming that the P's mean the same and the I is for indicator. Surely someone else has been here before me. Which wire goes where? Bill in Tehachapi From wsb1960tr3a at att.net Wed Sep 23 06:55:58 2009 From: wsb1960tr3a at att.net (William Brewer) Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 05:55:58 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [TR] TR3 Speedo Reading Message-ID: <563126.4570.qm@web83302.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> I had my speedo rebuilt about 40,000 miles/8 years ago by West Valley Instruments and it worked fine. About 7 years ago (30,000 miles ago actually) I rebuilt the engine and the car was off the road for about 18 months. When I got back on the road the speedo was flailing everywhere between 20 and 80 mph. I put a new cable in and routed it through the clip behind the engine in front of the battery box. It still did it. I routed the cable more gently between the carbs and over the valve cover to avoid bends. It still is messed up. I just bought a new cable and routed it gently again thinking that maybe my last new cable was messed up from new. It still doesn't work. The speedo appears to move quite fluidly like it is lubed inside and not jammed in the instrument. The car has an A-type overdrive and I am using MOSS's OD 96 inch cable. I am thinking about hooking the cable to an electric drill and seeing if the speedo reads okay. My next step is probably sending the speedo back to West Valley for cleaning and lube. What is causing this? Are there other tests that I can do? My track record with disassembling TR gauges is not good, hence my relationship with West Valley Instrument. Any help would be appreciated. See you at Triumphest. TIA, Bill in Tehachapi From rlwhitetr3b at hotmail.com Wed Sep 23 07:17:05 2009 From: rlwhitetr3b at hotmail.com (Rich White) Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 08:17:05 -0500 Subject: [TR] anyone replacing carpet? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I was going to suggest what Dave did. (The TRF part not the comb over part) Rich White St. Joseph, IL USA '63 TR3B TCF587L That ain't a scrap pile, that is my car! See it moves! > From: Dave1massey at cs.com > Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 08:18:31 -0400 > To: triumphs at autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [TR] anyone replacing carpet? > > In a message dated 9/22/2009 8:09:56 PM Central Daylight Time, > jimmuller at rcn.com writes: > > My GT6 needs some new carpet. More specifically, most of the carpet > > is fine, old but with plenty of life left, but the section over the > > tranny tunnel was worn out long ago. The main suppliers have carpets > > sets but they are rather expensive when you consider that I don't > > need much. Nor do I want to go through the trouble of pulling and re- > > glueing if I don't have to, which makes all those other pieces > > redundant twice. Would any of you have a decent section of carpet > > for the tranny cover? Black. Thanks. > > > > And now for something completely different. > > Have you checked with the Roadster Factory to see if you can buy that piece > a la carte? > > Dave > _______________________________________________ > > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > This list supported in part by the Vintage Triumph Register > http://www.vtr.org > > > Triumphs at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs > > > http://www.team.net/archive From trglory at verizon.net Wed Sep 23 07:38:10 2009 From: trglory at verizon.net (Joe Laurito) Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 09:38:10 -0400 Subject: [TR] TR3 Flasher Wiring Terminals In-Reply-To: <104324.33556.qm@web83303.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <104324.33556.qm@web83303.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <005101ca3c53$17e49950$47adcbf0$@net> Bill; If you hold the flasher so that the center connector is at the top facing you, that center connector is P and gets the light green wire (this is the indicator). The connector on the left is B and gets the green wire (this is power from the fuse block). The connector on the right is L (I?) and gets the green wire with brown tracer (this goes to the control head on the steering hub). Joe -----Original Message----- From: triumphs-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:triumphs-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of William Brewer Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 8:55 AM To: Triumphs Subject: [TR] TR3 Flasher Wiring Terminals I just bought a new turn signal flasher from MOSS. The wiring schematic for the TR3 shows the terminals as L, P & X, The new Lucas (I'm doomed) flasher's terminals are labeled B, P & I. I am assuming that the P's mean the same and the I is for indicator. Surely someone else has been here before me. Which wire goes where? Bill in Tehachapi From FordneyNJ at aol.com Wed Sep 23 07:40:39 2009 From: FordneyNJ at aol.com (FordneyNJ at aol.com) Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 09:40:39 EDT Subject: [TR] re. Moss show NJ Message-ID: Larry. it was on Sept 12. And our Positive Earth Drivers Club show in Ocean Grove was the 19th. We had 121 LBCs. We were 4 cars short of capacity. Hope you can join us next year as we try to expand the display area. Rodney Ford, Brick, NJ President, Positive Earth Drivers Club TR4A IRS CTC 60536 L TR7 Spider TPVDJ8AA400612 Message: 3 Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 16:31:49 EDT From: L1J1S at aol.com Subject: [TR] tr- tr moss show new jersey To: triumphs at autox.team.net Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" list, does anyone know the date for the moss motors car how that is held in new jersey usually in the month of september? larry schwartz From ccgunn1010 at hotmail.com Wed Sep 23 09:06:15 2009 From: ccgunn1010 at hotmail.com (David Gunn) Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 08:06:15 -0700 Subject: [TR] TR2/3 Transmission Mount Message-ID: Hi All - I'm considering replacing the transmisson mount in my TR2. I just recently replaced the motor mounts. Are there any peculiararities that I should/need to know about? Is there enough play in the drive shaft and u-joints to lift the transmission up without disconnecting anything? It looks fairly straight forward, but I thought I'd better ask before I break something. Thanks for your help, David Gunn 1954 TR2 TS3388L Chico, CA _________________________________________________________________ Lauren found her dream laptop. Find the PC thats right for you. http://www.microsoft.com/windows/choosepc/?ocid=ftp_val_wl_290 From wbeech at flash.net Wed Sep 23 09:34:53 2009 From: wbeech at flash.net (wbeech at flash.net) Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 09:34:53 -0600 Subject: [TR] TR3 Speedo Reading In-Reply-To: <563126.4570.qm@web83302.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <563126.4570.qm@web83302.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Bill, If you are comfortable you have tried everything else, give Morris at West Valley a call, he is good about advising things for you to try before sending it back. Bill Bill Beecher '58 TR-3A TS/30766 L (On the road in 2009!) "A Triumph is man's best friend, it always comes when it is called...of course, some times it is difficult to make it go" -----Original Message----- From: triumphs-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:triumphs-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of William Brewer Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 6:56 AM To: Triumphs Subject: [TR] TR3 Speedo Reading I had my speedo rebuilt about 40,000 miles/8 years ago by West Valley Instruments and it worked fine. About 7 years ago (30,000 miles ago actually) I rebuilt the engine and the car was off the road for about 18 months. When I got back on the road the speedo was flailing everywhere between 20 and 80 mph. I put a new cable in and routed it through the clip behind the engine in front of the battery box. It still did it. I routed the cable more gently between the carbs and over the valve cover to avoid bends. It still is messed up. I just bought a new cable and routed it gently again thinking that maybe my last new cable was messed up from new. It still doesn't work. The speedo appears to move quite fluidly like it is lubed inside and not jammed in the instrument. The car has an A-type overdrive and I am using MOSS's OD 96 inch cable. I am thinking about hooking the cable to an electric drill and seeing if the speedo reads okay. My next step is probably sending the speedo back to West Valley for cleaning and lube. What is causing this? Are there other tests that I can do? My track record with disassembling TR gauges is not good, hence my relationship with West Valley Instrument. Any help would be appreciated. See you at Triumphest. TIA, Bill in Tehachapi This list supported in part by the Vintage Triumph Register http://www.vtr.org Triumphs at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs http://www.team.net/archive From ms6453 at optonline.net Wed Sep 23 10:40:49 2009 From: ms6453 at optonline.net (Mitch) Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 12:40:49 -0400 Subject: [TR] YOKO AVID H4S Message-ID: Hi All, Looking for feedback on Yokohama Avid H4s 215/65r15. Any one using these? _______ Mitch Seff From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Wed Sep 23 12:08:45 2009 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 11:08:45 -0700 Subject: [TR] TR2/3 Transmission Mount In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > Is there enough play in the drive shaft and u-joints > to lift the transmission up without disconnecting anything? There was on my 3A, but if not, it's only 4 easy bolts to remove the rear cross member. -- Randall From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Wed Sep 23 12:23:26 2009 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 11:23:26 -0700 Subject: [TR] [6pack] Eastwood Spring Compressor In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > The one I used was good for about > two spring changeouts. Wow! In that case, I agree, use something better. I've kind of lost count, but mine has been through maybe two dozen cycles and shows no sign of distress or wear, beyond some discoloration (probably from the lubricant I used). Since I don't plan to make a career out of rebuilding front ends, I expect it to outlast me. > If you are going to use an impact > wrench (which, BTW is advised against by the makers of store > bought compressors) you will need a REALLY DEEP socket. Funny, I used a shallow socket and it worked fine for me. And I used the 'tire change' impact wrench that won't even twist off a 7/16" wheel stud. No way is it going to harm that 3/4" stuff. > One other thing, ACME thread being the way it is, you can't > double nut the top side Ah, maybe that's the problem. I double-nutted the bottom end, and put the impact wrench on the bottom nut. Here it is, removing the old suspension on the project TR3 just last month: http://tinyurl.com/na6ky3 Randall From eoot at citlink.net Wed Sep 23 12:41:27 2009 From: eoot at citlink.net (Ed Oot) Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 14:41:27 -0400 Subject: [TR] TR6 clutch options Message-ID: I realize that this is a topic that has most likely been beaten to death in the past but here goes anyway. I need to do a clutch job. I've read a ton of good information from various sources on the web. The problem is that after researching I still am unable to make a decision as the information only confused my poor feeble brain even further. I'm leaning right now toward the LUK. Don't ask why. I won't be able to tell you. Any feedback from folks that have installed the LUK? I see that TRF has an extra 10% off this week and I would like to bite the bullet and get something ordered. I have also decided to go with Richard Good setup for the fork/sleeve/bearing etc. Looks really slick. TIA Ed From chandler.rick at comcast.net Wed Sep 23 13:37:58 2009 From: chandler.rick at comcast.net (Rick) Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 12:37:58 -0700 Subject: [TR] TR3 Speedo Reading Message-ID: Bill, Measure across the flats on the cable ends; they should be 0.125" across. If they are oversized, as most recent Moss cables are, they will not fully insert into the transmission drive, which results in a compressed cable, erratic readings, and finally death to the speedo. The cure is to simply grind (carefully) the sides down until you achieve the right distance between flats and the cable end smoothly and fully enters the tranny receptacle. The speedo recepticle is more tolerant to an oversized cable. Rick Chandler 2414 73rd Avenue SE Mercer Island WA 98040 Home 206 236 8662 Cell 206 909 8408 [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of image001.jpg] From ahwahnee18 at gmail.com Wed Sep 23 14:06:55 2009 From: ahwahnee18 at gmail.com (Geo Hahn) Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 13:06:55 -0700 Subject: [TR] TR3 Speedo Reading In-Reply-To: <563126.4570.qm@web83302.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <563126.4570.qm@web83302.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <7bb181af0909231306w5493a356i6152f6c2258cfdbf@mail.gmail.com> On 9/23/09, William Brewer wrote: > ...The speedo appears to move quite fluidly like it is lubed inside... That could be the problem. If a bit of lube gets on the backside of the drag cup it can erratically bind and release giving whacko needle movements. I only use a very vary small amount of thick lubricant on the gears and shafts for the odos, try not to get lube anywhere near the fast moving parts. The drag cup rides on a couple of needles inside brass fittings (not the right terminology I'm sure) and I do not think it needs much if any lube. From diggle at clear.net.nz Wed Sep 23 14:23:57 2009 From: diggle at clear.net.nz (Jim and Diggle) Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 08:23:57 +1200 Subject: [TR] Spring compressor and TR6 fenders. Message-ID: I made one up out of high tensile threaded rod, large washers and two nuts each end. I've used it at least alot and its as good as when I made it up. I need to repair a front fender and was thinking of locating a TR6 fender (as TR4 fenders are as rare as) and making one out of two. Do others agree with me that the major difference between a 4's fender and a 6's is the front and that the bottom part below the suage (fold above the wheel arch) is the same. Jim and the TR4 From dkspence at telus.net Wed Sep 23 15:31:29 2009 From: dkspence at telus.net (Don Spence) Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 15:31:29 -0600 Subject: [TR] TR3 Speedo Reading In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <37BC6C67-1778-4D64-A628-FA3D0E0634B7@telus.net> Bill Have you tried slacking off the cable nut on the back of the speedo. Some inner cables were too long... On 23-Sep-09, at 12:00 PM, triumphs-request at autox.team.net wrote: > From: > Date: September 23, 2009 9:34:53 AM MDT (CA) > To: "'William Brewer'" , "'Triumphs'" > > Subject: Re: [TR] TR3 Speedo Reading > > > Bill, > If you are comfortable you have tried everything else, give Morris > at West > Valley a call, he is good about advising things for you to try before > sending it back. > Bill > > Bill Beecher > '58 TR-3A TS/30766 L (On the road in 2009!) > "A Triumph is man's best friend, it always comes when it is > called...of > course, some times it is difficult to make it go" From jimmuller at rcn.com Wed Sep 23 15:39:31 2009 From: jimmuller at rcn.com (Jim Muller) Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 17:39:31 -0400 Subject: [TR] anyone replacing carpet? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4ABA5D53.23748.9B8E73D@localhost> On 23 Sep 2009 at 8:17, Rich White wrote: > I was going to suggest what Dave did. I've been doing the comb-over thing on the GT6 tranny cover carpet for too long. As for the other comb-over, ahem...let's not go there. -- Jim Muller jimmuller at rcn.com '80 Spitfire, '70 GT6+ From ElangTR4 at aol.com Wed Sep 23 17:16:30 2009 From: ElangTR4 at aol.com (ElangTR4 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 19:16:30 EDT Subject: [TR] YOKO AVID H4S Message-ID: Mitch, Don't know about that model, but I just got a set of Yoko Avid Touring S models put on my TR6 in August. So far so good. I chose these after a couple of friends in our local TR club recommended them. Got them from a local tire shop, size 205/70-15. Eric L. 71 TR6 From rlwhitetr3b at hotmail.com Wed Sep 23 17:26:49 2009 From: rlwhitetr3b at hotmail.com (Rich White) Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 18:26:49 -0500 Subject: [TR] [Shop-talk] stripping large wire In-Reply-To: <4E4F0660D4934DB2B4E659186464E47B@niolon> References: <194FFD64448D4298B0D0FA16E6825396@niolon><041101ca3c8e$20665380$6132fa80$@net> <4ABA88E4.5010300@earthlink.net> <4ABA9355.3080105@att.net> Message-ID: Be careful not to nick the wire with the pipe cutter. If you cut a ring around the conductor you increase the likely hood that it will bread and you decrease the electrical carrying capabilities of the wire. Rich White St. Joseph, IL USA '63 TR3B TCF587L That ain't a scrap pile, that is my car! See it moves! From pcaffrey at ymail.com Wed Sep 23 17:31:05 2009 From: pcaffrey at ymail.com (P Caffrey) Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 16:31:05 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [TR] YOKO AVID H4S In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <844686.7666.qm@web59715.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> My only experience with Yokohama was on my '02 Maxima--Avid V4S....Thought it was the best tire I ever purchased, especially lack of hydroplaning which is important for a commuter car. Pat TR4A '67 ________________________________ From: Mitch To: Triumphs at autox.team.net; websixpack at 6-pack.org Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 9:40:49 AM Subject: [TR] YOKO AVID H4S Hi All, Looking for feedback on Yokohama Avid H4s 215/65r15. Any one using these? _______ Mitch Seff _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html This list supported in part by the Vintage Triumph Register http://www.vtr.org Triumphs at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs http://www.team.net/archive From rlwhitetr3b at hotmail.com Wed Sep 23 17:30:32 2009 From: rlwhitetr3b at hotmail.com (Rich White) Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 18:30:32 -0500 Subject: [TR] FW: [Shop-talk] stripping large wire In-Reply-To: References: <194FFD64448D4298B0D0FA16E6825396@niolon><041101ca3c8e$20665380$6132fa80$@net> <4ABA88E4.5010300@earthlink.net> <4ABA9355.3080105@att.net> Message-ID: I sent this to the wrong list... It has been a long day! Rich White St. Joseph, IL USA '63 TR3B TCF587L That ain't a scrap pile, that is my car! See it moves! > From: rlwhitetr3b at hotmail.com > To: triumphs at autox.team.net > Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 18:26:49 -0500 > Subject: Re: [TR] [Shop-talk] stripping large wire > > Be careful not to nick the wire with the pipe cutter. If you cut a ring > around the conductor you increase the likely hood that it will bread and you > decrease the electrical carrying capabilities of the wire. > > > Rich White St. Joseph, IL USA > '63 TR3B TCF587L > That ain't a scrap pile, that is my car! > See it moves! > _______________________________________________ > > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > This list supported in part by the Vintage Triumph Register > http://www.vtr.org > > > Triumphs at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs > > > http://www.team.net/archive From 75TR6 at tr6.danielsonfamily.org Wed Sep 23 18:36:02 2009 From: 75TR6 at tr6.danielsonfamily.org (Bob Danielson) Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 20:36:02 -0400 Subject: [TR] TR3 Speedo Reading In-Reply-To: <563126.4570.qm@web83302.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <563126.4570.qm@web83302.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <90B040BFD6B44D0EBA9B9329B7205B35@BOBSNEWPC> Bill, You might want to check the specs on your speedo cable tip. I had mine done by West Valley too and the specs can be found toward the bottom of this page http://tr6.danielsonfamily.org/SpeedometerCalibration.htm Morris won't guarantee his work unless the cable meets these specs. Too long or fat a tip can damage or make the speedo act strange. Bob Danielson 1975 TR6 CF38503U Running w/ Throttle Body Injection Toyota 5 Speed & Nissan LSD http://tr6.danielsonfamily.org -----Original Message----- From: triumphs-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:triumphs-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of William Brewer Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 8:56 AM To: Triumphs Subject: [TR] TR3 Speedo Reading I had my speedo rebuilt about 40,000 miles/8 years ago by West Valley Instruments and it worked fine. About 7 years ago (30,000 miles ago actually) I rebuilt the engine and the car was off the road for about 18 months. When I got back on the road the speedo was flailing everywhere between 20 and 80 mph. I put a new cable in and routed it through the clip behind the engine in front of the battery box. It still did it. I routed the cable more gently between the carbs and over the valve cover to avoid bends. It still is messed up. I just bought a new cable and routed it gently again thinking that maybe my last new cable was messed up from new. It still doesn't work. The speedo appears to move quite fluidly like it is lubed inside and not jammed in the instrument. The car has an A-type overdrive and I am using MOSS's OD 96 inch cable. I am thinking about hooking the cable to an electric drill and seeing if the speedo reads okay. My next step is probably sending the speedo back to West Valley for cleaning and lube. What is causing this? Are there other tests that I can do? My track record with disassembling TR gauges is not good, hence my relationship with West Valley Instrument. Any help would be appreciated. See you at Triumphest. TIA, Bill in Tehachapi This list supported in part by the Vintage Triumph Register http://www.vtr.org Triumphs at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs http://www.team.net/archive From StagByTriumph at triumphstagclub.org Wed Sep 23 19:56:15 2009 From: StagByTriumph at triumphstagclub.org (Glenn A. Merrell - TSN) Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 19:56:15 -0600 Subject: [TR] YOKO AVID H4S In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4ABAD1BF.6040605@triumphstagclub.org> Hi Mitch, I run 195/70-14 Yokohama Avid H4 V rated on my modified Stag for the last 6 years. They have gone a higher MPH than many Triumphs can. They offer a smooth and quiet ride, are very predictable in handling, and offered good all around road traction and wear. Mine will have one more trip on them to T-Fest and back they they are going to be to the tread wear indicators after about 60k + miles in 6 years, including 4 Autocross First in Class awards, and 3 other autocross events. One year was a double set of 3 runs each between myself and Blake at Laughlin - 2007 You need to know that the tread pattern design has changed at least 2 times in that 6 years from what I have seen, I ran a larger set on my Hyundai XG300, also for about 60k miles and the pattern on those was somewhat different from my set on the Stag.. What I did not like is that they are directional tread and to to a proper rotate on a Triumph you have to bust them off the rims and Remount/Balance I hope this helps! -- Glenn Merrell TSN Admin http://www.triumphstag.net mailto:StagByTriumph at triumphstagclub.org Mitch wrote: > Hi All, > > Looking for feedback on Yokohama Avid H4s 215/65r15. Any one using these? > > > > _______ > > Mitch Seff > _______________________________________________ From spook01 at comcast.net Wed Sep 23 20:58:27 2009 From: spook01 at comcast.net (spook01) Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 21:58:27 -0500 Subject: [TR] car show with trumpets References: Message-ID: Hi all, Just for you all to consider.... On October 10, the Nashville British Car Club has their show in a new park, near shopping and historic Franklin, TN (founded Oct 26th, 1799 and named after Ben Franklin. As some may know, the state of Tennessee was originally the Free State of Franklin!) The theme is "Cars for Winding Roads", and there are more than a few such roads near Franklin and Nashville! This year, the Triumph marque will have a special award just for Triumph! A NICE award! If you are in range, drop by our hospitality room before the show on Friday night. Hope you can make it! Here's a link: http://www.nashvillebritishcarclub.org/2008carshow Hope to see some of you there! Best, Ray From Dave1massey at cs.com Thu Sep 24 05:44:34 2009 From: Dave1massey at cs.com (Dave1massey at cs.com) Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 07:44:34 EDT Subject: [TR] [6pack] Eastwood Spring Compressor Message-ID: In a message dated 9/23/2009 1:28:14 PM Central Daylight Time, tr3driver at ca.rr.com writes: > Ah, maybe that's the problem. I double-nutted the bottom end, and put > the > impact wrench on the bottom nut. Here it is, removing the old suspension > on > the project TR3 just last month: > http://tinyurl.com/na6ky3 > Ah... that may work on a TR3 but the inner fenders on the TR6 will necessitate double nutting at the top. Using an impact wrench on the bottom would require a socket a good 8 inches deep. I didn't see anything like that at Sears last time I was there. ;-) Dave From kthompson at whoi.edu Thu Sep 24 06:25:29 2009 From: kthompson at whoi.edu (Kevin Thompson) Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 08:25:29 -0400 Subject: [TR] TR6 rear carpet Message-ID: <3B45BDF75C85B94B9DC984EB645DDD9D32C42E@SABRETOOTH.admin.whoi.edu> Greetings boys and girls......... First, the question: would anyone have a decent rear carpet section for a TR6 in dark brown that they'd like to sell? It's the piece that goes over the rear shelf and drops down to the floor..... Then the statement: Be careful of hot cigar ash when driving down the road on a beautiful starlit night......man, does that carpet melt quick!! Thanks, Kevin T ktnkt at comcast.net From jimmuller at rcn.com Thu Sep 24 07:03:25 2009 From: jimmuller at rcn.com (Jim Muller) Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 09:03:25 -0400 Subject: [TR] TR6 rear carpet In-Reply-To: <3B45BDF75C85B94B9DC984EB645DDD9D32C42E@SABRETOOTH.admin.whoi.edu> Message-ID: <4ABB35DD.6915.D06C3B5@localhost> On 24 Sep 2009 at 8:25, Kevin Thompson wrote: > First, the question: would anyone have a decent rear carpet section > for a TR6 in dark brown that they'd like to sell? Kevin, have you tried the comb-over? -- Jim Muller jimmuller at rcn.com '80 Spitfire, '70 GT6+ From Dave1massey at cs.com Thu Sep 24 10:52:40 2009 From: Dave1massey at cs.com (Dave1massey at cs.com) Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 12:52:40 EDT Subject: [TR] TR6 rear carpet Message-ID: In a message dated 9/24/2009 7:24:48 AM Central Daylight Time, kthompson at whoi.edu writes: > Then the statement: Be careful of hot cigar ash when driving down the > road on a beautiful starlit night......man, does that carpet melt > quick!! > If you can't quit smoking for yourself, do it for the ones you love! From StagByTriumph at triumphstagclub.org Thu Sep 24 12:51:39 2009 From: StagByTriumph at triumphstagclub.org (Glenn A. Merrell - TSN) Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 12:51:39 -0600 Subject: [TR] TTA 30 Sept Gran Finale Drive and Arrival to SLO - Details & "California Happening" Message-ID: <4ABBBFBB.10103@triumphstagclub.org> Hello All, 6 days and counting to Triumphest / North American Triumph Challenge 2009, and the ... Triumph Trans America Charity Drive 2009 Gran Finale DRIVE! The plans for the Gran Finale Drive and arrival to SLO are coming together. Currently the Gran Finale Drive will depart Monterey at about 9:00 am. Arrive by 8:30 am as stated below. If you did not see the post from TTSCC, here it is again: >Wednesday morning, 9/30: Meet at the Rio Road Shopping Center in Carmel at >Highway 1 and Rio Road at 8:30 a.m. Final TTACD tour departs Carmel at 9:00 >a.m. and proceeds down Highway 1 to Triumphest/VTR at San Luis Obispo. >Scenic photo stops and comfort stops along the way. Lunch in Cambria. We >expect this caravan to get huge as we approach San Luis Obispo. If you don't >make the 9:00 a.m. departure, it won't be difficult to catch up with us. If >you are already in SLO, please head north and join us for the end of the tour. > >Wednesday afternoon, 9/30: We expect to arrive in SLO at 2:30 p.m. (to be >verified), and we hope for a Grand Reception as we enter the parking lot of >the Embassy Suites. We will post updates about this final tour. For the Embassy Suites Inn SLO group side of things, this gathering is very informal since I am driving south from Monterey. This should be two groups: 1. Drivers wanting to make the CAMBRIA lunch stop should plan of being in front of the hotel to depart no later than 10:30am Wednesday 30th September for the drive north on Hwy 1A to make the LUNCH STOP in Cambria. Just look for Triumphs lining up and assemble and ask those folks if they are driving up to Cambria to meet the Gran Finale Drive.. 2. As the details of the 2nd rendezvous point are finalized for the two groups, the 2nd has been set at Morrow Bay at the Lila H Keiser Park on Hwy 1 and Atascadero Road exit for the late group, after the Cambria Lunch stop. Anyone wishing to Rendezvous at the Morrow Bay rendezvous point should depart the Hotel about 1:00 pm. I have no idea what is available for parking at that park, but I would recommend this group line up on the Hwy 1 A On Ramp to merge with the south traveling group as they come down 1A I will make a call to someone in the group at the Embassy Suites when we are about 30 minutes from the rendezvous points on Hwy 1A, first before the lunch stop, and then for the second group when we are leaving Cambria. As to "Grand Reception", well this is of course my own typical "informal" arrangement - nothing formally tied to Triumphest organizers by specific request, just a "California Happening". I am planning to leave the Gran Finale group on 1A about 15 minutes ahead to set up a video camera and clear the area in front of the Hotel for the arrival. There is a "Special" parking spot in front of the hotel under the arrival banner for "Uncle Jack", so once UJ gets parked, we will have an initial gathering of everyone who is interested in that immediate area in front of the Gran Finale Banner, make some brief announcements and thank you's (since this is "California Happening" style, then it may become a spontaneous party - bring your coolers and chairs), announce the "Gran Finale Toast" will be held in the Hotel Atrium Lounge about 5:30 pm to coincide with the Managers Reception where we will pop the cork on some special STTAG fluifs. If you are staying at the hotel, make sure you get your free drink info through the hotel if that was advertised, and for all TTA Host organizers who have been on the contact list, SEE ME PERSONALLY and introduce yourself!! Cheers! -- Glenn Merrell TSN Admin http://www.triumphstag.net mailto:StagByTriumph at triumphstagclub.org From FordneyNJ at aol.com Thu Sep 24 16:40:48 2009 From: FordneyNJ at aol.com (FordneyNJ at aol.com) Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 18:40:48 EDT Subject: [TR] TR6 Carpet Message-ID: Kevin, Individual sections of carpet can be purchased from John Skinner Ltd in the UK. _http://www.triumph-trim.co.uk/_ (http://www.triumph-trim.co.uk/) Hope this helps. Rodney Ford, Brick, NJ President, Positive Earth Drivers Club TR4A IRS CTC 60536 L TR7 Spider TPVDJ8AA400612 Message: 1 Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 08:25:29 -0400 From: "Kevin Thompson" Subject: [TR] TR6 rear carpet To: Message-ID: <3B45BDF75C85B94B9DC984EB645DDD9D32C42E at SABRETOOTH.admin.whoi.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Greetings boys and girls......... First, the question: would anyone have a decent rear carpet section for a TR6 in dark brown that they'd like to sell? It's the piece that goes over the rear shelf and drops down to the floor..... Then the statement: Be careful of hot cigar ash when driving down the road on a beautiful starlit night......man, does that carpet melt quick!! Thanks, Kevin T ktnkt at comcast.net From spitlist at cox.net Thu Sep 24 18:32:49 2009 From: spitlist at cox.net (Joe Curry) Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 17:32:49 -0700 Subject: [TR] Camber Compensatora and VTR/ Triumphest Message-ID: If anyone going to The VTR/Triumphest event next week has been contemplating the purchase of a camber compensator (early Spitfires, Mk1 GT6, Herald or Vitesse-Sports 6), I will be bringing two units with me. So you can avoid shipping costs. To reserve one, contact me by email. First come first served. Joe From supertr6 at earthlink.net Thu Sep 24 20:25:57 2009 From: supertr6 at earthlink.net (Joe Burlein) Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 22:25:57 -0400 Subject: [TR] For anyone with an original TR6 Message-ID: <4ABC2A35.9030103@earthlink.net> I have a very esoteric question for everyone. About a decade ago I had the TR6 repainted by a bunch of morons. I am honestly not sure if everything went back together correctly. Anyone out there still have a fully original 70-72 TR6 that can take pictures of the engine bay for me?! Thanks in advance, Joe From carlsereda at aol.com Thu Sep 24 20:37:05 2009 From: carlsereda at aol.com (carlsereda) Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 19:37:05 -0700 Subject: [TR] More commonality of TR4 & TR6 fenders - wish it was so In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3986786A.A811.4468.BF74.C22C5D7E61BC@aol.com> Unfortunately not. Someone on the internet shows how he welded 'repair panels' cut from a TR6's lower front front fenders rear areas to graft to his TR4 fenders but the TR6 lengths in that same area was 2" shorter so he had to make up the difference with additional sheet metal to reach the door. The wheel wells are longer on the TR6. But he made it work - just a little more work than he didn't know would be required. Carl Do others agree with me that the major difference between a 4's fender and a 6's is the front and that the bottom part below the suage (fold above the wheel arch) is the same. Jim and the TR4 From sumton at sbcglobal.net Thu Sep 24 21:35:00 2009 From: sumton at sbcglobal.net (oliver) Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 22:35:00 -0500 Subject: [TR] For anyone with an original TR6 References: <4ABC2A35.9030103@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <9C83FF28741641449A8FF6F0343D2191@ranteer.local> those morons must have moved to Texas, where they painted my car. left it out in the rain and then painted over the rust. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Burlein" To: "Triumph List" Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 9:25 PM Subject: [TR] For anyone with an original TR6 >I have a very esoteric question for everyone. About a decade ago I had the >TR6 repainted by a bunch of morons. I am honestly not sure if everything >went back together correctly. Anyone out there still have a fully >original 70-72 TR6 that can take pictures of the engine bay for me?! > > Thanks in advance, > > Joe From agraham at execulink.com Fri Sep 25 09:55:25 2009 From: agraham at execulink.com (Angelo Graham) Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 11:55:25 -0400 Subject: [TR] TR2/3 transmission mount Message-ID: <200909251555.n8PFtK9c003321@smtp1.execulink.net> Hello List: A question about the rear trans mount on the TR2/3 cars. I have fitted a new mount that covers the the TR2-6 range of cars to my TR2 project. The old mount had a different profile and was more square. The new mount is noticeably different in profile and construction, but all the holes line up and it should work. Just wondering about the mount stiffeners that were on the old mount - pt. no. 107895. Are these required on the new mount? In sizing up the old stiffeners, doesn't appear that they would come anywhere close to stiffening the new mount as they are about 1/2" away from the rubber of the mount. Just put the new mount in without stiffeners?? Thanks for any guidance on this and any past experiences. Angelo Graham From rfeibusch1 at earthlink.net Fri Sep 25 09:58:57 2009 From: rfeibusch1 at earthlink.net (rfeibusch1 at earthlink.net) Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 08:58:57 -0700 (GMT-07:00) Subject: [TR] YOW! - TR6 - V8 Message-ID: <32325654.1253894337919.JavaMail.root@elwamui-rustique.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Craigslist Posting: I always wanted a Cobra but all I had was this old TR6........................ http://portland.craigslist.org/clc/cto/1390618519.html From agraham at execulink.com Fri Sep 25 10:03:21 2009 From: agraham at execulink.com (Angelo Graham) Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 12:03:21 -0400 Subject: [TR] TR universal joints Message-ID: <200909251603.n8PG3GHD006330@smtp1.execulink.net> Hello again List: Just wondering if anyone has any specs. on TR series of universal joints. I understand the same joint fits the entire TR2-6 range of cars. Looking for cup diameter and overall joint dimensions - cup to cup distance, etc. Fitting a new set of joints to my '2 and what I thought were TR joints in my part stash turned out to be too small. A friend and I measured up the old joints and found that generic Chevy V8 joints fit the shaft yolks. Just wondering what gives here and if I could measure up what I thought were TR joints. Puzzled over this. Thanks for any help. Angelo Graham From mlang99 at comcast.net Fri Sep 25 10:26:09 2009 From: mlang99 at comcast.net (Michael Lang) Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 09:26:09 -0700 Subject: [TR] YOW! - TR6 - V8 In-Reply-To: <32325654.1253894337919.JavaMail.root@elwamui-rustique.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <32325654.1253894337919.JavaMail.root@elwamui-rustique.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <4ABCEF21.3030406@comcast.net> I have crossed paths with this car many times on Redland Rd. I had wondered what it was powered by?! Mike rfeibusch1 at earthlink.net wrote: > Craigslist Posting: > > I always wanted a Cobra but all I had was this old TR6........................ > > http://portland.craigslist.org/clc/cto/1390618519.html From wensley_tr at comcast.net Fri Sep 25 11:15:19 2009 From: wensley_tr at comcast.net (Craig) Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 13:15:19 -0400 Subject: [TR] YOW! - TR6 - V8 In-Reply-To: <32325654.1253894337919.JavaMail.root@elwamui-rustique.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <32325654.1253894337919.JavaMail.root@elwamui-rustique.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <007401ca3e03$c27b87a0$477296e0$@net> WOW the color Craig -----Original Message----- From: triumphs-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:triumphs-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of rfeibusch1 at earthlink.net Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 11:59 AM To: triumphs at autox.team.net; spitfires at autox.team.net; british-cars at autox.team.net Subject: [TR] YOW! - TR6 - V8 Craigslist Posting: I always wanted a Cobra but all I had was this old TR6........................ http://portland.craigslist.org/clc/cto/1390618519.html This list supported in part by the Vintage Triumph Register http://www.vtr.org Triumphs at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs http://www.team.net/archive From Chip19474 at aol.com Fri Sep 25 12:08:19 2009 From: Chip19474 at aol.com (Chip19474 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 14:08:19 EDT Subject: [TR] YOW! - TR6 - V8 Message-ID: Wow.......I'm at a loss for words.....it would seem though that a comparable swap with a "4X4" would leave the owner with some distinct differences in performance but he would be better off in the snow:) Chip Krout Delaware Valley Triumphs, Ltd. Skippack, PA 1976 TR6 CF57822U In a message dated 9/25/2009 12:01:05 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, rfeibusch1 at earthlink.net writes: Craigslist Posting: I always wanted a Cobra but all I had was this old TR6........................ http://portland.craigslist.org/clc/cto/1390618519.html This list supported in part by the Vintage Triumph Register http://www.vtr.org Triumphs at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs http://www.team.net/archive From supertr6 at earthlink.net Fri Sep 25 12:08:40 2009 From: supertr6 at earthlink.net (Joe Burlein) Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 14:08:40 -0400 Subject: [TR] For anyone with an original TR6 In-Reply-To: <9C83FF28741641449A8FF6F0343D2191@ranteer.local> References: <4ABC2A35.9030103@earthlink.net> <9C83FF28741641449A8FF6F0343D2191@ranteer.local> Message-ID: <4ABD0728.2060002@earthlink.net> LOL! Well, at least they are out of Florida. And isn't "they needed killin'" still a valid excuse in Texas? oliver wrote: > those morons must have moved to Texas, where they painted my car. > left it out in the rain and then painted over the rust. > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Burlein" > To: "Triumph List" > Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 9:25 PM > Subject: [TR] For anyone with an original TR6 > > >> I have a very esoteric question for everyone. About a decade ago I >> had the TR6 repainted by a bunch of morons. I am honestly not sure >> if everything went back together correctly. Anyone out there still >> have a fully original 70-72 TR6 that can take pictures of the engine >> bay for me?! >> >> Thanks in advance, >> >> Joe > _______________________________________________ > > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > This list supported in part by the Vintage Triumph Register > http://www.vtr.org > > > Triumphs at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs > > > http://www.team.net/archive From wbeech at flash.net Fri Sep 25 13:10:57 2009 From: wbeech at flash.net (wbeech at flash.net) Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 13:10:57 -0600 Subject: [TR] For anyone with an original TR6 In-Reply-To: <4ABD0728.2060002@earthlink.net> References: <4ABC2A35.9030103@earthlink.net><9C83FF28741641449A8FF6F0343D2191@ranteer.local> <4ABD0728.2060002@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <25FFBEB4524B417AAEDFC762F707C338@bboffice> Yup! -----Original Message----- From: triumphs-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:triumphs-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Joe Burlein Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 12:09 PM To: oliver Cc: Triumph List Subject: Re: [TR] For anyone with an original TR6 LOL! Well, at least they are out of Florida. And isn't "they needed killin'" still a valid excuse in Texas? oliver wrote: > those morons must have moved to Texas, where they painted my car. > left it out in the rain and then painted over the rust. > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Burlein" > > To: "Triumph List" > Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 9:25 PM > Subject: [TR] For anyone with an original TR6 > > >> I have a very esoteric question for everyone. About a decade ago I >> had the TR6 repainted by a bunch of morons. I am honestly not sure >> if everything went back together correctly. Anyone out there still >> have a fully original 70-72 TR6 that can take pictures of the engine >> bay for me?! >> >> Thanks in advance, >> >> Joe > _______________________________________________ > > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > This list supported in part by the Vintage Triumph Register > http://www.vtr.org > > > Triumphs at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs > > > http://www.team.net/archive This list supported in part by the Vintage Triumph Register http://www.vtr.org Triumphs at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs http://www.team.net/archive From ahwahnee18 at gmail.com Fri Sep 25 21:59:39 2009 From: ahwahnee18 at gmail.com (Geo Hahn) Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 20:59:39 -0700 Subject: [TR] For anyone with an original TR6 In-Reply-To: <25FFBEB4524B417AAEDFC762F707C338@bboffice> References: <4ABC2A35.9030103@earthlink.net> <9C83FF28741641449A8FF6F0343D2191@ranteer.local> <4ABD0728.2060002@earthlink.net> <25FFBEB4524B417AAEDFC762F707C338@bboffice> Message-ID: <7bb181af0909252059t1ec06ec5h94e0ec080166fedd@mail.gmail.com> Actually, I believe this is some sort of franchise operation as I have been able to find them in every city I have lived in. Geo > Subject: Re: [TR] For anyone with an original TR6 > > LOL! Well, at least they are out of Florida... > > oliver wrote: >> those morons must have moved to Texas, where they painted my car. >> left it out in the rain and then painted over the rust. From acekraut11 at aol.com Fri Sep 25 22:31:46 2009 From: acekraut11 at aol.com (acekraut11 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 00:31:46 -0400 Subject: [TR] 2009 British Invasion Pics Message-ID: <8CC0C796410667E-8138-AE6C@webmail-m008.sysops.aol.com> Hi All, Here are some pics from this past weekend of the 2009 British Invasion.? Pictures can be found at: triumphowners.com/108 Enjoy, Aaron 1971 Triumph TR6 2002 MINI Cooper S From wsb1960tr3a at att.net Sat Sep 26 07:21:53 2009 From: wsb1960tr3a at att.net (William Brewer) Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 06:21:53 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [TR] TR3 Tachometer Cable Length Message-ID: <645334.78684.qm@web83305.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> How far should the tachometer cable stick out from the cable jacket where it goes into the tachometer housing at the distributer on a TR3A? TIA, Bill in Tehachapi From trmarty at hotmail.com Sat Sep 26 08:55:29 2009 From: trmarty at hotmail.com (marty sukey) Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 10:55:29 -0400 Subject: [TR] Chassis paint Message-ID: Anybody tried Summit Racing's Chassis Shield paint? Work OK for you? Was one quart enough to do a Triumph frame? Marty _________________________________________________________________ Microsoft brings you a new way to search the web. Try Bing now http://www.bing.com?form=MFEHPG&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TEXT_MFEHPG_Core_tagline_try bing_1x1 From cfisher at borgwarner.com Sat Sep 26 12:55:19 2009 From: cfisher at borgwarner.com (cfisher at borgwarner.com) Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 14:55:19 -0400 Subject: [TR] removing radiator without removing apron on TR3A? Message-ID: <1415F96E1760EC4F9881942370DF3BCD9116FE@enteasvem001.enterprise.borgwarner.net> I need to remove my leaking radiator from my TR3a. While I'm at it I'm going to convert to an electric fan. Is it reasonably manageable to do this with just the grill removed, or will I need to take the front apron off? I would really like to avoid removing that apron if possible. Thanks for the advice, Curt Visit: CurtFisherRacing.com "When you're racing it's life. Anything that happens before or after, is just waiting." Steve McQueen ~ LeMans From yellowtr at adelphia.net Sat Sep 26 13:18:19 2009 From: yellowtr at adelphia.net (Bob) Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 15:18:19 -0400 Subject: [TR] removing radiator without removing apron on TR3A? In-Reply-To: <1415F96E1760EC4F9881942370DF3BCD9116FE@enteasvem001.enterprise.borgwarner.net> References: <1415F96E1760EC4F9881942370DF3BCD9116FE@enteasvem001.enterprise.borgwarner.net> Message-ID: <200909261518.20461.yellowtr@adelphia.net> On Saturday 26 September 2009 02:55:19 pm cfisher at borgwarner.com wrote: > I need to remove my leaking radiator from my TR3a. While I'm at it I'm > going to convert to an electric fan. Is it reasonably manageable to do this > with just the grill removed, or will I need to take the front apron off? I > would really like to avoid removing that apron if possible. > > Thanks for the advice, > Curt Curt, The only way you can get the radiator out without removing the front apron is to saw it in half if you can. I know it is a PITA to remove the apron but there is no easy way to remove the radiator with the apron on. If you are lucky and the bolts are not rusted to the caged nuts it only takes about an hour or so to remove the apron after removing the bumper. I always loosen all the fender bolts so I can move the front fenders out a bit for extra clearance. Bob From wbeech at flash.net Sat Sep 26 14:18:56 2009 From: wbeech at flash.net (wbeech at flash.net) Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 14:18:56 -0600 Subject: [TR] removing radiator without removing apron on TR3A? In-Reply-To: <200909261518.20461.yellowtr@adelphia.net> References: <1415F96E1760EC4F9881942370DF3BCD9116FE@enteasvem001.enterprise.borgwarner.net> <200909261518.20461.yellowtr@adelphia.net> Message-ID: <658104A2EF19470B82B66854784897C3@bboffice> Unless, of course, you happen to be this guy who has solved that problem with his TR3. http://www.britishmotoring.net/Archives/2005_Winter.PDF I wonder if he has started producing conversion kits yet? Bill Beecher '58 TR-3A TS/30766 L (On the road in 2009!) "A Triumph is man's best friend, it always comes when it is called...of course, some times it is difficult to make it go" -----Original Message----- From: triumphs-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:triumphs-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Bob Sent: Saturday, September 26, 2009 1:18 PM To: triumphs at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [TR] removing radiator without removing apron on TR3A? On Saturday 26 September 2009 02:55:19 pm cfisher at borgwarner.com wrote: > I need to remove my leaking radiator from my TR3a. While I'm at it I'm > going to convert to an electric fan. Is it reasonably manageable to do > this with just the grill removed, or will I need to take the front > apron off? I would really like to avoid removing that apron if possible. > > Thanks for the advice, > Curt Curt, The only way you can get the radiator out without removing the front apron is to saw it in half if you can. I know it is a PITA to remove the apron but there is no easy way to remove the radiator with the apron on. If you are lucky and the bolts are not rusted to the caged nuts it only takes about an hour or so to remove the apron after removing the bumper. I always loosen all the fender bolts so I can move the front fenders out a bit for extra clearance. Bob This list supported in part by the Vintage Triumph Register http://www.vtr.org Triumphs at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs http://www.team.net/archive From ahwahnee18 at gmail.com Sat Sep 26 15:11:44 2009 From: ahwahnee18 at gmail.com (Geo Hahn) Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 14:11:44 -0700 Subject: [TR] removing radiator without removing apron on TR3A? In-Reply-To: <200909261518.20461.yellowtr@adelphia.net> References: <1415F96E1760EC4F9881942370DF3BCD9116FE@enteasvem001.enterprise.borgwarner.net> <200909261518.20461.yellowtr@adelphia.net> Message-ID: <7bb181af0909261411i5fe807ffx60a3bad5c77a82a0@mail.gmail.com> On 9/26/09, Bob wrote: > > I know it is a PITA to remove the apron but there is no easy way to remove > the radiator with the apron on. I think I would agree with that statement but I have heard that it has been done. Mind you, I have not done it myself but have looked it over as I, too, would not enjoy removing the apron. Eyeballing it, perhaps having the head off would be the key, plus some tight wrench work. A lift would possibly help -- also a box of band-aids for your knuckles. Hopefully someone here has done it or at least tried it and can report. Otherwise, left us know if you decide to give it a go. Geo From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Sat Sep 26 15:58:30 2009 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 14:58:30 -0700 Subject: [TR] removing radiator without removing apron on TR3A? In-Reply-To: <7bb181af0909261411i5fe807ffx60a3bad5c77a82a0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090926215830714.RNXT1442@cdptpa-omta01.mail.rr.com> > Eyeballing it, perhaps having the head off would be the key, I remember reading a blow-by-blow once, and thinking "It is easier to pull the apron!". ISTR he removed not only the head, but the water pump and it's housing as well. Fan too, I think. Anyway, I recently did just that, and that is still what I think. BTW, a 7/16" GearWrench will make removing the apron a lot easier. No room for a ratchet & socket on most of the bolts, but a GW snakes right in there. If it's been awhile since it was off, you may also want some "needle nose" Vise Grips, to pinch the cages around the captive nuts. Also best to douse all the threads with PB Blaster (or your favorite penetrating oil) a day or two before you tackle the job. Randall From don at napanet.net Sat Sep 26 16:11:49 2009 From: don at napanet.net (don) Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 15:11:49 -0700 Subject: [TR] Franken-Six Message-ID: <6.0.3.0.1.20090926150956.04363180@pop.napanet.net> This was a TR6, I think . . . >http://portland.craigslist.org/clc/cto/1390618519.html ____________________________________________________________________________________ Don Scott Calistoga CA 2001 Miata SE BRG 1973 MGB GT (for sale) 1966 TR4A 1962 MGA Mk II From ZoboHerald at aol.com Sat Sep 26 18:04:54 2009 From: ZoboHerald at aol.com (ZoboHerald at aol.com) Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 20:04:54 EDT Subject: [TR] Chassis paint Message-ID: In a message dated 9/26/2009 11:00:48 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, trmarty at hotmail.com writes: Anybody tried Summit Racing's Chassis Shield paint? Work OK for you? Was one quart enough to do a Triumph frame? ==AM== I can't vouch for Summit Racing's paint. However, I did a Rotoflex GT6+ chassis and some of the small suspension bits with POR-15's chassis paint. One quart (two coats in some spots, and all applied with foam brushes) just barely made it, so I suspect it might not be enough for a TR chassis, or for a later Spitfire "Federal" chassis with the rear extensions, or a Herald chassis? I am, so far, very happy with the POR-15 paint. The project has been stalled for about a year now, but the chassis still looks great -- if dusty -- and the paint seems extremely hard and durable. --Andy Mace *Mrs Irrelevant: Oh, is it a jet? *Man: Well, no ... It's not so much of a jet, it's more your, er, Triumph Herald engine with wings. -- Cut-price Airlines Sketch, Monty Python's Flying Circus (22) Triumph 10 / Herald / Sports 6 vehicle consultant, The Vintage Triumph Register: _http://www.vtr.org_ (http://www.vtr.org/) Check out the North American Triumph Sports 6 (Vitesse 6) and Triumph Herald Database: _http://triumph-herald.us_ (http://triumph-herald.us/) From frede.thomas2 at verizon.net Sat Sep 26 19:25:23 2009 From: frede.thomas2 at verizon.net (FRED E THOMAS) Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 21:25:23 -0400 Subject: [TR] Chassis paint References: Message-ID: <767C4DB1F34C463BAB8E12CB1C2B4A51@fred8kwiskhcfu> I did my frame in ="powder-coat"= in 1992, still looks brand new :) :) :) FT ================================================================================================= ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; Sent: Saturday, September 26, 2009 8:04 PM Subject: Re: [TR] Chassis paint > In a message dated 9/26/2009 11:00:48 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > trmarty at hotmail.com writes: > > Anybody tried Summit Racing's Chassis Shield paint? Work OK for you? Was > one > quart enough to do a Triumph frame? > > ==AM== > I can't vouch for Summit Racing's paint. However, I did a Rotoflex GT6+ > chassis and some of the small suspension bits with POR-15's chassis paint. > One quart (two coats in some spots, and all applied with foam brushes) > just > barely made it, so I suspect it might not be enough for a TR chassis, or > for > a later Spitfire "Federal" chassis with the rear extensions, or a Herald > chassis? > > I am, so far, very happy with the POR-15 paint. The project has been > stalled for about a year now, but the chassis still looks great -- if > dusty -- > and the paint seems extremely hard and durable. > > --Andy Mace > > *Mrs Irrelevant: Oh, is it a jet? > *Man: Well, no ... It's not so much of a jet, it's more your, er, Triumph > Herald engine with wings. > -- Cut-price Airlines Sketch, Monty Python's Flying Circus (22) > > Triumph 10 / Herald / Sports 6 vehicle consultant, The Vintage Triumph > Register: _http://www.vtr.org_ (http://www.vtr.org/) > > Check out the North American Triumph Sports 6 (Vitesse 6) and Triumph > Herald Database: _http://triumph-herald.us_ (http://triumph-herald.us/) > _______________________________________________ > > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > This list supported in part by the Vintage Triumph Register > http://www.vtr.org > > > Triumphs at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs > > > http://www.team.net/archive From nafzigerg at yahoo.com Sat Sep 26 19:55:03 2009 From: nafzigerg at yahoo.com (Gary Nafziger) Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 18:55:03 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [TR] towing Message-ID: <580370.12178.qm@web65302.mail.ac2.yahoo.com> Just wondering if anyone has flat towed an LBC any great distance? I'm thinking of doing that when attending long distance meets. I'm wondering how it went.............whether its recommended ect. ..........and any suggestions? thanks gary n. From mark at bradakis.com Sat Sep 26 20:17:40 2009 From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J Bradakis) Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 20:17:40 -0600 Subject: [TR] towing In-Reply-To: <580370.12178.qm@web65302.mail.ac2.yahoo.com> References: <580370.12178.qm@web65302.mail.ac2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4ABECB44.2020803@bradakis.com> Gary Nafziger wrote: > Just wondering if anyone has flat towed an LBC any great distance? Define 'great' Gee, this may have been discussed once or twice in the last decade or two ;-) Many will say disconnect the driveshaft before towing. The issue is the gearbox. When the motor is running with the gearbox in neutral the input shaft is spinning the layshaft and flinging oil all over the place. When towing just the maishaft is spinning. The layshaft in the oil bath is not moving, not spraying oil all over the place. You run the risk of the mainshaft bearings and bushings getting a little dry, overheating and wearing rapidly. You can leave the driveshaft connected, but it makes fueling stops a bit longer. When you stop to gas up the tow vehicle, fire up the towee and let it idle a bit in neutral. This will splash oil all over, enough to get the gearbox safely to the next fuel stop without burning up anything. But one advantage of the disconnect approach is the speedo drive gear is not turning, so the odometer is not racking up the miles. mjb. From dave1massey at cs.com Sat Sep 26 20:17:47 2009 From: dave1massey at cs.com (dave1massey at cs.com) Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 22:17:47 -0400 Subject: [TR] towing In-Reply-To: <580370.12178.qm@web65302.mail.ac2.yahoo.com> References: <580370.12178.qm@web65302.mail.ac2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8CC0D2FD6F3C558-3CE0-1174D@webmail-d046.sysops.aol.com> Just wondering if anyone has flat towed an LBC any great distance? I'm thinking of doing that when attending long distance meets. I'm wondering how it went.............whether its recommended ect. ..........and any suggestions? Disconnect the driveshaft. The transmission will not lubricate the mainshaft if the engine is not turning. Plus your LBC will catch every stone your tow vehicle throws up. Dave From jimmuller at rcn.com Sat Sep 26 21:37:43 2009 From: jimmuller at rcn.com (Jim Muller) Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 23:37:43 -0400 Subject: [TR] towing In-Reply-To: <4ABECB44.2020803@bradakis.com> References: <580370.12178.qm@web65302.mail.ac2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4ABEA5C7.30154.1A73EC0F@localhost> On 26 Sep 2009 at 20:17, Mark J Bradakis wrote: > When you stop to gas up the tow vehicle, fire up the towee and let > it idle a bit in neutral. This will splash oil all over, enough > to get the gearbox safely to the next fuel stop without burning > up anything. You can also do this by having someone get in the car, put it in gear and depress the clutch, then tow the car for a short distance. It will spin the input and layshafts so as to splash oil about. As I understand it, in most (all?) states it is illegal for someone to ride in a towed vehicle, so do it carefully or not on a public road. This is a useful trick if the engine won't run. -- Jim Muller jimmuller at rcn.com '80 Spitfire, '70 GT6+ From FordneyNJ at aol.com Sat Sep 26 22:14:23 2009 From: FordneyNJ at aol.com (FordneyNJ at aol.com) Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 00:14:23 EDT Subject: [TR] Brits on the Beach Message-ID: Here is a little taste of the Jersey Shore on September 19. The Viper and the Prowler snuck in when we were not looking. Part 1 _http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0X6J-wOfE8s_ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0X6J-wOfE8s) Part 2 _http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IAZFT8pzs_0_ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IAZFT8pzs_0) Rodney Ford, Brick, NJ President, Positive Earth Drivers Club TR4A IRS CTC 60536 L TR7 Spider TPVDJ8AA400612 From 60TR3A at cox.net Sat Sep 26 22:23:44 2009 From: 60TR3A at cox.net (John A. Wise) Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 21:23:44 -0700 Subject: [TR] towing In-Reply-To: <8CC0D2FD6F3C558-3CE0-1174D@webmail-d046.sysops.aol.com> References: <580370.12178.qm@web65302.mail.ac2.yahoo.com> <8CC0D2FD6F3C558-3CE0-1174D@webmail-d046.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: In 1972 I towed my 58 MGA from Webb AFB in West Texas to Pittsburgh, PA to attend grad school. I had a hitch made that bolted on the bumper bolts and used the same hitch to tow it from Pittsburgh to St Louis for my first civilian job4 years later. I used the car daily for 6 more years I had no problems from either tow & only sold the car when I bought a 240Z. John A. Wise Glendale, AZ 1960 Triumph TR3A Commission No: TS80422L http://members.cox.net/60tr3a/ http://www.triumphowners.com/876 1977 Porsche 911S http://members.cox.net/porsche911s/ On 26 Sep, 2009, at 7:17 PM, dave1massey at cs.com wrote: > Just wondering if anyone has flat towed an LBC any great distance? > I'm > thinking of doing that when attending long distance meets. I'm > wondering how > it went.............whether its recommended ect. ..........and any > suggestions? > > > > > > > > > > Disconnect the driveshaft. The transmission will not lubricate the > mainshaft if the engine is not turning. > > Plus your LBC will catch every stone your tow vehicle throws up. > > Dave > _______________________________________________ > > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > This list supported in part by the Vintage Triumph Register > http://www.vtr.org > > > Triumphs at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs > > > http://www.team.net/archive From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Sun Sep 27 00:23:16 2009 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 23:23:16 -0700 Subject: [TR] towing In-Reply-To: <580370.12178.qm@web65302.mail.ac2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20090927062315146.IMLR26368@cdptpa-omta03.mail.rr.com> > Just wondering if anyone has flat towed an LBC any great > distance? I'm > thinking of doing that when attending long distance meets. Flat towing is a horrible thing to do to any car you care about! The dust and dirt kicked up by the tow vehicle will literally flay the paint off; and every turn puts a bunch of stress into a part of the car that was never designed to handle it. I flat-towed my TR3A a total of about 40 miles, and was sorry I did even that. Did a fair amount of flat-towing of a Chevy that I didn't particularly care about, and it not only took all the paint off the front of the car, but eventually broke the body in half where it flexed. Randall From yellowtr at adelphia.net Sun Sep 27 05:29:19 2009 From: yellowtr at adelphia.net (Bob) Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 07:29:19 -0400 Subject: [TR] Chassis paint In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200909270729.21173.yellowtr@adelphia.net> Marty, I used the epoxy system offered by Eastwood. The kit comes with prep, epoxy primer and epoxy final coat. I picked satin black. The project is a 72 TR6. I used my spray gun to apply both primer and final coat with 1 qt of each. Some left over after multiple coats. I believe that using a spray method allows more complete coverage vs. a brush. Paint was applied in early spring and still looks great. Pics can be seen at: http://www.triumphowners.com/1401 I hope to be putting the body on next spring with a completion date of September 2010. Bob From tswhitez123 at hotmail.com Sun Sep 27 09:00:33 2009 From: tswhitez123 at hotmail.com (tom white) Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 15:00:33 +0000 Subject: [TR] removing radiator without removing apron on TR3A? In-Reply-To: <7bb181af0909261411i5fe807ffx60a3bad5c77a82a0@mail.gmail.com> References: <1415F96E1760EC4F9881942370DF3BCD9116FE@enteasvem001.enterprise.borgwarner.net> <200909261518.20461.yellowtr@adelphia.net> Message-ID: I cannot speak to the removal of the stock radiator. However, I have a 17" Mustang radiator in my TR3A and I remove it without taking the apron off. I pull it through the grill mouth bottom first. The filler neck on the stock unit may prevent this technique from working. Best regards, Tom _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail. has ever-growing storage! Dont worry about storage limits. http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/Storage?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutorial _Storage_062009 From agraham at execulink.com Sun Sep 27 09:38:57 2009 From: agraham at execulink.com (Angelo Graham) Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 11:38:57 -0400 Subject: [TR] TR2/3 transmission crossmember Message-ID: <200909271538.n8RFckoQ029277@smtp1.execulink.net> Hello List: A quick question regarding the rear transmission support crossmember. Wondering about the orientation of this piece. In my dissassembly phase (why do I always do this), didn't really pay attention to the way it was positioned and can go two ways. There is a lip and hole in the lip on the part. Does this lip face up against the trans or does it hang down adjacent to the exhaust system? Can't find any clear photos or references to the orientation of this part. In an earlier post I asked about the transmission mount stiffeners. Are they required with the newer, different profile transmission mount? Doesn't seem they would work on the new mount. Thanks for this direction. Angelo Graham From banjonut at verizon.net Sun Sep 27 11:24:43 2009 From: banjonut at verizon.net (Steve Ball) Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 10:24:43 -0700 Subject: [TR] Removing radiator without removing apron on TR3A? Message-ID: <3F0CBC6B6C874F91A5370CEBC0DC7F9B@HAMPC> All, Removing the radiator with the cowl in place can be done. Before I ever got my TR3A it had been in a front-end crash. The owner's idea of a repair job included welding and brazing the fenders to the front cowl, eliminating the fender beads, but also making it impossible to remove the cowl. The next owner never had enough money (or support from his wife) to restore it back to it's original condition, so he just lived with it....including the problem of removing the radiator for a repair. After he did the job, he told me he removed it "downward", somehow working it around the frame and other obstructions. As I remember, he cursed a blue streak while talking about it, and the only comment that's fit to repeat to the list was "it wasn't easy". As a matter of interest, the first thing I did when I got the car was to restore the bodywork to the stock configuration. We cut the welded fenders off, and we've repaired the whole front-end mess. The car is still a work in progress with much of it in primer, and the body guy is now working on the rear of the car which was also welded...presumably to match the front end. I'd like to have a few words with whoever thought it was a good idea to weld it all together. It probably only took them a couple of days to do it, but it took us weeks to undo it and repair the crash damage the right way. So...it can be done, but good luck. Steve Ball Lompoc Ca '60 TR3A TS68164L From tr4driver at gmail.com Sun Sep 27 15:11:25 2009 From: tr4driver at gmail.com (Kurtis J.) Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 16:11:25 -0500 Subject: [TR] Trying to get my TR4 back on the road... Message-ID: Hey guys, I've been off the list for a while, but have finally decided to take care of a few issues that have kept my TR4 off the road for a while. Specifically, I need to have the carburetors (SU's) and the distributor professionally rebuilt. Any recommendations? -- Kurtis Russellville, Arkansas 1963 TR4 - CT19389L 1959 AH Bugeye - AN5L23250 www.geocities.com/tr4_1963 From yellowtr at adelphia.net Sun Sep 27 15:59:17 2009 From: yellowtr at adelphia.net (Bob) Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 17:59:17 -0400 Subject: [TR] Trying to get my TR4 back on the road... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200909271759.17952.yellowtr@adelphia.net> On Sunday 27 September 2009 05:11:25 pm Kurtis J. wrote: > Hey guys, > > I've been off the list for a while, but have finally decided to take > care of a few issues that have kept my TR4 off the road for a while. > Specifically, I need to have the carburetors (SU's) and the > distributor professionally rebuilt. Any recommendations? Kurtis, Yes, For your distributor give Jeff at advanced a call. http://www.advanceddistributors.com/index.htm For your carburetors, give the other "Jeff" at Paltec a call: http://www.paltech1.com/ I had Jeff rebuild my TR6 distributor and it came back with all new internals, including weights and springs and it looks better than new. Good price. For Paltech, I have heard great things from both this and the 6-pack list. When I get the $ I am going to have Jeff rebuild the SUs on both my 3 and 4. Bob From nafzigerg at yahoo.com Sun Sep 27 16:47:30 2009 From: nafzigerg at yahoo.com (Gary Nafziger) Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 15:47:30 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [TR] towing...........thanks! Message-ID: <140045.66053.qm@web65305.mail.ac2.yahoo.com> for some reason i'd never thought about kicked up rock and stones ect while towing. I'd be going 4-500 miles one way. Just thinking of how to keep a spouse happy in hot humid midwest summer weather and still have my tr-6 there to drive at the convention. Maybe take two 5 hour days rather than one long 10-11 hour day. thanks again! gary n. From Catpusher at aol.com Sun Sep 27 20:01:40 2009 From: Catpusher at aol.com (Catpusher at aol.com) Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 22:01:40 EDT Subject: [TR] Subject: Re: towing Message-ID: I flat towed my national championship TR3 race car for 100,000 plus miles behind me 67 E Type Jaguar; my only two cars at the time. As I was living in SF, a trailer was not realistic on my budget, and the E Type would not have enjoyed it. It was economical, dangerous, annoying, but necessary. I did disconnect the drive shaft. TR Regards, Hardy From: Gary Nafziger Subject: [TR] towing To: triumphs at autox.team.net Just wondering if anyone has flat towed an LBC any great distance? I'm thinking of doing that when attending long distance meets. I'm wondering how it went.............whether its recommended ect. ..........and any suggestions? thanks gary n. From yellowtr3 at yahoo.com Sun Sep 27 20:27:38 2009 From: yellowtr3 at yahoo.com (Frank Fisher) Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 19:27:38 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [TR] tr3 CARBURATION Message-ID: <5552.73135.qm@web111606.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> before i spend a bunch on a carb rebuild kit that maybe i don't need, id like to hear any ones thoughts on my problem. carbs where working good when i put the car into restoration 4 years ago. took them out of storage, cleaned them up, cleaned out the bowls and put them on the car. now they are running way rich. with the adjustment screw tightened all the way they are still way rich. any thoughts? thanks Frank 58 TR3 From KingsCreekTrees at aol.com Sun Sep 27 20:46:33 2009 From: KingsCreekTrees at aol.com (KingsCreekTrees at aol.com) Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 22:46:33 EDT Subject: [TR] Subject: Re: towing Message-ID: Having read all the inputs on this, all I can say is that Triumphs were built as sports cars for the masses, but now they have become far more collectable. Once, it was acceptable and 'the done thing' to flat tow them. Reliability expectations have changed over time. Therefore, it may be totally worry-free to flat tow Modern Rubbish behind a primary vehicle, but the same can't reasonably be said for our lovely old real cars. What's most important is the wear on the car, I think. It's only the engine and gearbox that doesn't get the wear in this scenario. Oh, and brakes. Suspension, wheel bearings, diffs, steering all wear somewhat, if not necessarily quite at the same rate as when under power, so for me there would be a reliability worry. My car isn't in concours condition by any means, and therefore not a trailer queen, but nevertheless I tow it on a trailer to events, if they are a couple of hours or more away. I tend not to go to car shows, so I'd be towing it to driving events or to vintage race events where I'd drive it around as a spectator. Trailers are not expensive and they don't depreciate much. Plus they're easy to maintain. A tow vehicle won't get great gas mileage but but not that bad either, if you choose wisely. Sorry this is so long. Tim Dyer, Proprietor Kings Creek Trees and Ornamentals 427 Kings Creek Road, RR3 Ashton, Ontario, K0A 1B0, Canada Phone/fax: 613 253 4126 Website: _www.kingscreektrees.com_ (http://www.kingscreektrees.com/) Proud member of Landscape Ontario (the Ontario association of Horticulture Industry professionals), the Canadian Nursery Landscape Association and Christmas Tree Farmers of Ontario From 75TR6 at tr6.danielsonfamily.org Sun Sep 27 21:24:47 2009 From: 75TR6 at tr6.danielsonfamily.org (Bob Danielson) Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 23:24:47 -0400 Subject: [TR] British Invasion at Stowe Message-ID: I take way too many pictures but I've finally updated my site with two videos and hundreds of pictures from The British Invasion at Stowe VT . If you got the Internet bandwidth............... have fun! Bob Danielson 1975 TR6 CF38503U Running w/ Throttle Body Injection Toyota 5 Speed & Nissan LSD http://tr6.danielsonfamily.org From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Sun Sep 27 21:54:20 2009 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 20:54:20 -0700 Subject: [TR] tr3 CARBURATION In-Reply-To: <5552.73135.qm@web111606.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20090928035420601.CRUQ26368@cdptpa-omta03.mail.rr.com> > carbs where working good when i put the car into restoration > 4 years ago. > took them out of storage, cleaned them up, cleaned out the > bowls and put them on the car. > now they are running way rich. with the adjustment screw > tightened all the way they are still way rich. > any thoughts? My first thought is that your float valves are leaking for some reason (or simply set way too high). Was the fuel pump replaced or rebuilt? Fuel pressure might be too high. I assume you have checked carefully that the jet heads are indeed resting against the nuts. Needles mounted properly in the pistons? The shoulder of the needle should be flush with the bottom of the piston, sometimes they can be pushed higher than that (which would cause rich mixture). Pistons move perfectly freely, land with a click if you lift and release them? Improper jet centering can cause them to bind only at the very bottom of travel, which can make idle mixture way rich (or lean). Randall From mark at bradakis.com Sun Sep 27 23:28:26 2009 From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J Bradakis) Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 23:28:26 -0600 Subject: [TR] tr3 CARBURATION In-Reply-To: <5552.73135.qm@web111606.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <5552.73135.qm@web111606.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4AC0497A.8020601@bradakis.com> This isn't exactly related, but close. A while back a fellow called up the shop to have us work on his MGB-GT. His carbs were running way too rich, he said, and he was having trouble getting the car started and running. It seemed like a carb problem, but he just spent $700 at a tire store/repair place to get his carbs redone. Poor fellow. The car gets towed in and I nearly fall on the floor laughing after I open the hood. The $700 "repair" job involved hooking the fuel inlet hoses to the bowl vents - no floats or valves involved, just a constant stream of gas into the carbs. A minute or two hooking the hoses to the proper pipes had the car running well once again. mjb. From wbeech at flash.net Mon Sep 28 00:21:12 2009 From: wbeech at flash.net (wbeech at flash.net) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 00:21:12 -0600 Subject: [TR] tr3 CARBURATION In-Reply-To: <5552.73135.qm@web111606.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <5552.73135.qm@web111606.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Frank, I had a similar problem after I spent the $100 on the re-build kits. It seems the jets were not sliding back into the fully up position after releasing the "Choke" cable. I pulled the jets, cleaned them good using some 4x steel wool and re-installed and re-centered, all seems to be much better now. This could very well be your issue after to extend period on the shelf. Right now I am in process of adjusting them to a leaner mixture but I find this pretty tedious.(Can anyone suggest a better way??) 1.Clean the plugs 2.Go for a long drive 3.Pull the plugs and check the color. Bill Beecher '58 TR-3A TS/30766 L (On the road in 2009!) "A Triumph is man's best friend, it always comes when it is called...of course, some times it is difficult to make it go" -----Original Message----- From: triumphs-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:triumphs-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Frank Fisher Sent: Sunday, September 27, 2009 8:28 PM To: triumphs at autox.team.net Subject: [TR] tr3 CARBURATION before i spend a bunch on a carb rebuild kit that maybe i don't need, id like to hear any ones thoughts on my problem. carbs where working good when i put the car into restoration 4 years ago. took them out of storage, cleaned them up, cleaned out the bowls and put them on the car. now they are running way rich. with the adjustment screw tightened all the way they are still way rich. any thoughts? thanks Frank 58 TR3 This list supported in part by the Vintage Triumph Register http://www.vtr.org Triumphs at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs http://www.team.net/archive From cfisher at borgwarner.com Mon Sep 28 06:44:38 2009 From: cfisher at borgwarner.com (cfisher at borgwarner.com) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 08:44:38 -0400 Subject: [TR] Removing radiator without removing apron on TR3A? In-Reply-To: <3F0CBC6B6C874F91A5370CEBC0DC7F9B@HAMPC> References: <3F0CBC6B6C874F91A5370CEBC0DC7F9B@HAMPC> Message-ID: <1415F96E1760EC4F9881942370DF3BCD026185E7@enteasvem001.enterprise.borgwarner.net> Thanks to all for the input on getting the radiator out. I'll be taking the apron off and using a gear wrench on the bolts and needle nose vise grips on the cage nuts. I restored the car just a few years ago. It's all new hardware slathered in anti-seize, and never seen rain, so it shouldn't be too hard to remove. I just hate the likelihood of chipping paint. On the other hand it's an opportunity to get at a few other things while I'm at it. Cheers, Curt From fogbro1 at comcast.net Mon Sep 28 07:07:17 2009 From: fogbro1 at comcast.net (Ed Woods) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 09:07:17 -0400 Subject: [TR] Lucas 2 Speed Wiper Motors Message-ID: List, I'm looking for a technical article/manual on the Lucas 2 speed wiper motor. And, yes, I have Dan Masters book and, I think, almost every Triumph repair manual under the sun. Is there some Lucas publication out there? This is the motor as fitted to the TR4A and the TR250, not the TR6 or MGB. Thanks, Ed Woods From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Mon Sep 28 08:43:50 2009 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 07:43:50 -0700 Subject: [TR] tr3 CARBURATION In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20090928144351171.MEIT26368@cdptpa-omta03.mail.rr.com> > Right now I am in process of adjusting them to a leaner > mixture but I find > this pretty tedious.(Can anyone suggest a better way??) The "lift the piston" test given in the manual is quick and reliable, IMO. If you find that it does not give clear results, then there is something else wrong (valve lash, ignition timing, vacuum leak, etc.). If you then find that the plug color is significantly off, that also indicates a problem that should be corrected (worn or wrong needles, worn jets, internal fuel leak, wrong or missing spring, etc.) Note too that modern fuel doesn't color the plugs quite the same way as the old leaded stuff did. Part of that nice tan color they used to get was lead oxide (which is very white). I believe it's now fairly normal for the cold part of the plug (the edge of the threaded portion) to remain black instead of tan. You have to look at the tip of the insulator instead. Randall From frede.thomas2 at verizon.net Mon Sep 28 08:52:05 2009 From: frede.thomas2 at verizon.net (fred thomas) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 10:52:05 -0400 Subject: [TR] tr3 CARBURATION References: <5552.73135.qm@web111606.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <66CE74A7E4D643C6A4800AF4F8AE3FC2@fred8kwiskhcfu> Soak the ==cork seals==in oil for about 48 hours before your rebuild, gives a better fit and seals against leaking. FT ========================================================================================================== ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "'Frank Fisher'" ; Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 2:21 AM Subject: Re: [TR] tr3 CARBURATION > Frank, > I had a similar problem after I spent the $100 on the re-build kits. It > seems the jets were not sliding back into the fully up position after > releasing the "Choke" cable. I pulled the jets, cleaned them good using > some 4x steel wool and re-installed and re-centered, all seems to be much > better now. This could very well be your issue after to extend period on > the shelf. > > Right now I am in process of adjusting them to a leaner mixture but I find > this pretty tedious.(Can anyone suggest a better way??) > 1.Clean the plugs > 2.Go for a long drive > 3.Pull the plugs and check the color. > > Bill Beecher > '58 TR-3A TS/30766 L (On the road in 2009!) > "A Triumph is man's best friend, it always comes when it is called...of > course, some times it is difficult to make it go" > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: triumphs-bounces at autox.team.net > [mailto:triumphs-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Frank Fisher > Sent: Sunday, September 27, 2009 8:28 PM > To: triumphs at autox.team.net > Subject: [TR] tr3 CARBURATION > > before i spend a bunch on a carb rebuild kit that maybe i don't need, id > like to hear any ones thoughts on my problem. > carbs where working good when i put the car into restoration 4 years ago. > took them out of storage, cleaned them up, cleaned out the bowls and put > them on the car. > now they are running way rich. with the adjustment screw tightened all the > way they are still way rich. > any thoughts? > thanks > Frank > 58 TR3 > This list supported in part by the Vintage Triumph Register > http://www.vtr.org > > > Triumphs at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs > > > http://www.team.net/archive > _______________________________________________ > > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > This list supported in part by the Vintage Triumph Register > http://www.vtr.org > > > Triumphs at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs > > > http://www.team.net/archive From dave1massey at cs.com Mon Sep 28 09:35:07 2009 From: dave1massey at cs.com (dave1massey at cs.com) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 11:35:07 -0400 Subject: [TR] Subject: Re: towing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8CC0E685FD0E48E-4228-1EC5C@webmail-d018.sysops.aol.com> Towing a TR3 behind a Jag. Is that conspicuous consumption or what? ;-) Seriously, I'm envious. Dave I flat towed my national championship TR3 race car for 100,000 plus miles behind me 67 E Type Jaguar; my only two cars at the time. As I was living in SF, a trailer was not realistic on my budget, and the E Type would not have enjoyed it. It was economical, dangerous, annoying, but necessary. I did disconnect the drive shaft. From npaul72464 at aol.com Mon Sep 28 10:11:43 2009 From: npaul72464 at aol.com (npaul72464 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 12:11:43 -0400 Subject: [TR] Removing radiator without removing apron on TR3A? In-Reply-To: <1415F96E1760EC4F9881942370DF3BCD026185E7@enteasvem001.enterprise.borgwarner.net> References: <3F0CBC6B6C874F91A5370CEBC0DC7F9B@HAMPC> <1415F96E1760EC4F9881942370DF3BCD026185E7@enteasvem001.enterprise.borgwarner.net> Message-ID: <8CC0E6D81579E7F-468C-1F487@webmail-m023.sysops.aol.com> I certainly agree with getting at other things while you have the apron off.? I installed an electric fan on the front of the radiator when I had the opportunity.? What a difference it made when sitting in traffic on a hot day. Ned Paulsen 1958 TR3A -----Original Message----- From: cfisher at borgwarner.com To: triumphs at autox.team.net Sent: Mon, Sep 28, 2009 8:44 am Subject: Re: [TR] Removing radiator without removing apron on TR3A? Thanks to all for the input on getting the radiator out. I'll be taking the apron off and using a gear wrench on the bolts and needle nose vise grips on the cage nuts. I restored the car just a few years ago. It's all new hardware slathered in anti-seize, and never seen rain, so it shouldn't be too hard to remove. I just hate the likelihood of chipping paint. On the other hand it's an opportunity to get at a few other things while I'm at it. Cheers, Curt This list supported in part by the Vintage Triumph Register http://www.vtr.org Triumphs at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs http://www.team.net/archive From jimmuller at rcn.com Mon Sep 28 10:19:37 2009 From: jimmuller at rcn.com (jimmuller at rcn.com) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 12:19:37 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [TR] tr3 CARBURATION In-Reply-To: <20090928144351171.MEIT26368@cdptpa-omta03.mail.rr.com> References: <20090928144351171.MEIT26368@cdptpa-omta03.mail.rr.com> Message-ID: <20090928121937.CSC79393@ms10.lnh.mail.rcn.net> Randall wrote: > The "lift the piston" test given in the manual is quick and > reliable, IMO. But it does require that dual carbs be reasonably balanced and with a decent mixture. You won't see much action by raising the piston of a carb that is doing little because the other carb's idle is set so much higher. Jim Muller From cfisher at borgwarner.com Mon Sep 28 10:38:03 2009 From: cfisher at borgwarner.com (cfisher at borgwarner.com) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 12:38:03 -0400 Subject: [TR] Removing radiator without removing apron on TR3A? In-Reply-To: <8CC0E6D81579E7F-468C-1F487@webmail-m023.sysops.aol.com> References: <3F0CBC6B6C874F91A5370CEBC0DC7F9B@HAMPC> <1415F96E1760EC4F9881942370DF3BCD026185E7@enteasvem001.enterprise.borgwarner.net> <8CC0E6D81579E7F-468C-1F487@webmail-m023.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <1415F96E1760EC4F9881942370DF3BCD026186D8@enteasvem001.enterprise.borgwarner.net> Installing an electric fan is the main thing I intend to do while I'm at it! Curt ________________________________ From: npaul72464 at aol.com [mailto:npaul72464 at aol.com] Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 11:12 AM To: Fisher, Curt (Dixon); triumphs at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [TR] Removing radiator without removing apron on TR3A? I certainly agree with getting at other things while you have the apron off. I installed an electric fan on the front of the radiator when I had the opportunity. What a difference it made when sitting in traffic on a hot day. Ned Paulsen 1958 TR3A -----Original Message----- From: cfisher at borgwarner.com To: triumphs at autox.team.net Sent: Mon, Sep 28, 2009 8:44 am Subject: Re: [TR] Removing radiator without removing apron on TR3A? Thanks to all for the input on getting the radiator out. I'll be taking the apron off and using a gear wrench on the bolts and needle nose vise grips on the cage nuts. I restored the car just a few years ago. It's all new hardware slathered in anti-seize, and never seen rain, so it shouldn't be too hard to remove. I just hate the likelihood of chipping paint. On the other hand it's an opportunity to get at a few other things while I'm at it. Cheers, Curt This list supported in part by the Vintage Triumph Register http://www.vtr.org Triumphs at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs http://www.team.net/archive From yellowtr3 at yahoo.com Mon Sep 28 10:40:15 2009 From: yellowtr3 at yahoo.com (Frank Fisher) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 09:40:15 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [TR] tr3 CARBURATION In-Reply-To: <20090928121937.CSC79393@ms10.lnh.mail.rcn.net> References: <20090928144351171.MEIT26368@cdptpa-omta03.mail.rr.com> <20090928121937.CSC79393@ms10.lnh.mail.rcn.net> Message-ID: <144892.766.qm@web111616.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> lifting the piston a little 1/16 per the book (where did they get 8mm from?) does nothing. lifting it about 1/2 gets the motor reves moving. i will work my way through Randall's sugestions when i get back from vacation. just some other info tail pipe emissions are very black the color tune went very sooty black in just a couple of minutes of running. color was orange(rich) no overflow from the float bowl overflow pipe. no wetting of the underside of the jet adjustment screw fuel pump is stock. not rebuilt, just cleaned and refited (was working on the old "if it aint broke" Frank ________________________________ From: "jimmuller at rcn.com" To: Triumphs at autox.team.net Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 9:19:37 AM Subject: Re: [TR] tr3 CARBURATION Randall wrote: > The "lift the piston" test given in the manual is quick and > reliable, IMO. But it does require that dual carbs be reasonably balanced and with a decent mixture. You won't see much action by raising the piston of a carb that is doing little because the other carb's idle is set so much higher. Jim Muller _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html This list supported in part by the Vintage Triumph Register http://www.vtr.org Triumphs at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs http://www.team.net/archive From carlsereda at aol.com Mon Sep 28 10:43:18 2009 From: carlsereda at aol.com (carlsereda) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 09:43:18 -0700 Subject: [TR] 2-speed wiper wiring diagram Message-ID: <96887ACA.33C2.4FD8.A80E.7B0656B0D319@aol.com> Hi Ed, If you have any luck finding specs can you keep me in the loop? I believe the way 2-speed wiper motor works is when you turn on the second click of the 2 -position switch, a secondary winding on the field coil (simply about 50 rounds of extra wiring over the standard field coil) is activated, giving faster armature action. Otherwise I think all else is same as a standard 1-speed unit. Regards, Carl '63 TR4 since '74 From fogbro1 at comcast.net Mon Sep 28 11:14:51 2009 From: fogbro1 at comcast.net (Ed Woods) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 13:14:51 -0400 Subject: [TR] shameless plug Message-ID: <96DD5A266AFF4178BD280BC0FE0A9067@Edscomputer> Brand new pair of Stanpart vertical links on Ebay. Auction number 120474687090. Ed Woods From tr4ajo at cox.net Mon Sep 28 11:17:45 2009 From: tr4ajo at cox.net (Jim Olson) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 13:17:45 -0400 Subject: [TR] TR4A Crankcase Breather Regulator Valve ? Message-ID: Hi List, I've been following this list for years but this is my first submission. I have an aluminum finned valve cove that I'd like to use on my TR4A. The finned valve cover does not have a tube extending from it for connecting to the Crankcase Breather Regulator Valve. My question is will there be any potential problems if I remove the Crankcase Breather Regulator Valve and seal up the hole on the inlet manifold? Thanks, Jim From jerryvv at roadrunner.com Mon Sep 28 11:28:33 2009 From: jerryvv at roadrunner.com (jerryvv at roadrunner.com) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 13:28:33 -0400 Subject: [TR] TR4A Crankcase Breather Regulator Valve ? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20090928172833.25CNC.110952.root@cdptpa-web26-z01> Yes if you do not install a breather like is used on TR3 or TR4 engines. You will end up developing pressure inside the engine and blow oil out of places you don't even know in addition to the normal leak paths. On a TR4A you need to remove the blanking plug below the fuel pump and insert a breather pipe. I've been running mine this way for years. Not easy to do with the engine in the car but it can be done. Be careful to remove the plug and all of the pieces if you decide to do this. JVV ---- Jim Olson wrote: > Hi List, > > > > I've been following this list for years but this is my first submission. I > have an aluminum finned valve cove that I'd like to use on my TR4A. The > finned valve cover does not have a tube extending from it for connecting to > the Crankcase Breather Regulator Valve. My question is will there be any > potential problems if I remove the Crankcase Breather Regulator Valve and > seal up the hole on the inlet manifold? > > > > Thanks, > > > > Jim From lherault at bu.edu Mon Sep 28 12:25:21 2009 From: lherault at bu.edu (Ron L'Herault) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 14:25:21 -0400 Subject: [TR] Interesting problem identified Message-ID: <001001ca4069$09bfd0f0$77d6299b@ad.bu.edu> My '73 TR-6, with about 87K miles on it, developed an interesting problem. The oil level started to rise. You may remember an inquiry I made a month or so ago, about the possibility of a leaky fuel pump. Tests to the cooling system confirmed that it was not leaking into the oil (or anywhere else, thankfully). Bill Mack, my mechanic came over to give me a hand because I didn't want to drive the car if it would cause engine damage. We tested to see if the carbs let fuel into the engine as it sat, but they were tight. There was no evidence of gas getting in by the fuel pump either. And the flame test on the dipstick was negative. So what was making the oil level rise? It went up nearly a quart. Then Bill observed that when the engine started, there was a rattle and when the oil level was checked shortly after the engine was stopped, it was slightly low. Bingo! The increased oil was due to oil draining from the filter. It points to wear in the oil pump and probably to bearings. It was a great puzzle that he solved and I wanted others to know about this odd situation. Now to throw money at this problem until it goes away. 8-). Ron L (Who still has that slightly sprung '58 TR3 bonnet if anyone needs it) From n197tr4 at cs.com Mon Sep 28 12:47:41 2009 From: n197tr4 at cs.com (n197tr4 at cs.com) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 14:47:41 -0400 Subject: [TR] Distributors and Trailers Message-ID: <8CC0E834AFE6C39-1D24-21D12@webmail-d053.sysops.aol.com> Jumping in for a few minutes..... DISTRIBUTORS: Jeff Schlemmer did my distributor for the AMBRO to my particular needs. It appears that he is the guy to go to. Now I need to get my other two to him.....I am going visit his facilities on the 19th of October. ? TRAILERS: I am working on the specifications for a lightweight, durable, single axle trailer, with user friendly features and benefits. I started out towing with a custom (homemade) made single axle trailer 20 years ago. For about 10 years I have used an enclosed trailer. I am going to return to?an open single axle?concept to?trailer my TR based AMBRO. I should have the first trailer finished by the first of the year. If there is any interest, more can be manufactured. Price point range $1500-2000. Target market....hobbyists, autocrossers, budget racers. The last time I saw Hardy Prentice (at the RUNOFFS) towing his TR3, he was using a single axle trailer, pulling it over the mountains in a Ford minivan, loaded with a spare engine and trans.? There's a message here. Joe A. From spamiam at comcast.net Mon Sep 28 13:11:44 2009 From: spamiam at comcast.net (spamiam at comcast.net) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 19:11:44 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [TR] TR] 2-speed wiper wiring diagram In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1340856477.7664801254165104991.JavaMail.root@sz0135a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> Carl,B I helped Dan write his section on the 2-speed wipers in his electrical manual.B I had a TR4A 2-speed motor out on my desk at the time.B I did not dismantle it.B I found that the "low" speed was obtained by grounding BOTH of the switched wires.B It made no sense to me.B A few hypotheses were made about why this may be true, but that seems to be the way it works.B I have been tempted over the tears to pursue this further, but I never bothered.B To me they are literally a black box, but I woud be interested to see how they really work!B Keep me in the loop too! -Tony ----- Original Message ----- Message: 5 Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 09:43:18 -0700 From: carlsereda < carlsereda at aol.com > Subject: [TR] 2-speed wiper wiring diagram To: fogbro1 at comcast.net , triumphs at autox.team.net Message-ID: < 96887ACA.33C2.4FD8.A80E.7B0656B0D319 at aol.com > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi Ed, If you have any luck finding specs can you keep me in the loop? I believe the way 2-speed wiper motor works is when you turn on the second click of the 2 -position switch, a secondary winding on the field coil (simply about 50 rounds of extra wiring over the standard field coil) is activated, giving faster armature action. Otherwise I think all else is same as a standard 1-speed unit. Regards, Carl '63 TR4 since '74 From chammock at iquest.net Mon Sep 28 15:20:19 2009 From: chammock at iquest.net (chammock at iquest.net) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 17:20:19 -0400 Subject: [TR] crossthreaded master cylinder-TR3 Message-ID: <1254172819.4ac128939d1fc@webmail.iquest.net> yep - header says it all. replacing brake lines after rebuild - got the darned thing started sideways and goobed up the first couple threads. Can I retap or is that folly? Safety first, you know. If chasing threads is a possibility, area taps readily available? This was the last connection to make on a complete hydraulic overhaul - doesn't it just make ironic sense? Thanks for your insights Pery Hammock TR3A From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Mon Sep 28 16:17:45 2009 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 15:17:45 -0700 Subject: [TR] crossthreaded master cylinder-TR3 In-Reply-To: <1254172819.4ac128939d1fc@webmail.iquest.net> Message-ID: <20090928221745912.SVMP1442@cdptpa-omta01.mail.rr.com> > Can I retap or is that folly? Safety first, you know. Not a place for cutting corners, IMO. However, you could swap the brake & clutch MC; as losing the clutch line is much less of a safety concern. > If chasing threads is a possibility, area taps readily available? I forget the size offhand, but they are standard SAE threads. You'll probably want a 'bottoming' tap though, and possibly grind the end down a bit, so it doesn't cut into the conical seat inside the MC (which is where the actual sealing takes place). Randall From jerryvv at roadrunner.com Mon Sep 28 16:36:55 2009 From: jerryvv at roadrunner.com (Jerry Van Vlack) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 18:36:55 -0400 Subject: [TR] TR4A Crankcase Breather Regulator Valve ? References: <20090928172833.25CNC.110952.root@cdptpa-web26-z01> Message-ID: <8D62DD0FF44A459EA68295D0046AF725@userb38463fba5> I forgot to add that you should also run a vented filler cap of some sort. Don't know what provisions the new valve cover has for that. JVV ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; "Jim Olson" Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 1:28 PM Subject: Re: [TR] TR4A Crankcase Breather Regulator Valve ? > Yes if you do not install a breather like is used on TR3 or TR4 engines. > You will end up developing pressure inside the engine and blow oil out of > places you don't even know in addition to the normal leak paths. On a TR4A > you need to remove the blanking plug below the fuel pump and insert a > breather pipe. > I've been running mine this way for years. Not easy to do with the engine > in the car but it can be done. Be careful to remove the plug and all of > the pieces if you decide to do this. > > JVV > > > ---- Jim Olson wrote: >> Hi List, >> >> >> >> I've been following this list for years but this is my first submission. >> I >> have an aluminum finned valve cove that I'd like to use on my TR4A. The >> finned valve cover does not have a tube extending from it for connecting >> to >> the Crankcase Breather Regulator Valve. My question is will there be any >> potential problems if I remove the Crankcase Breather Regulator Valve and >> seal up the hole on the inlet manifold? >> >> >> >> Thanks, >> >> >> >> Jim From tr4driver at gmail.com Mon Sep 28 17:17:57 2009 From: tr4driver at gmail.com (Kurtis J.) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 18:17:57 -0500 Subject: [TR] Trying to get my TR4 back on the road... In-Reply-To: <200909271759.17952.yellowtr@adelphia.net> References: <200909271759.17952.yellowtr@adelphia.net> Message-ID: Thanks! On Sun, Sep 27, 2009 at 4:59 PM, Bob wrote: > On Sunday 27 September 2009 05:11:25 pm Kurtis J. wrote: >> Hey guys, >> >> I've been off the list for a while, but have finally decided to take >> care of a few issues that have kept my TR4 off the road for a while. >> Specifically, I need to have the carburetors (SU's) and the >> distributor professionally rebuilt. Any recommendations? > Kurtis, > > Yes, > > For your distributor give Jeff at advanced a call. > > http://www.advanceddistributors.com/index.htm > > For your carburetors, give the other "Jeff" at Paltec a call: > > http://www.paltech1.com/ > > I had Jeff rebuild my TR6 distributor and it came back with all new internals, > including weights and springs and it looks better than new. Good price. > > For Paltech, I have heard great things from both this and the 6-pack list. > > When I get the $ I am going to have Jeff rebuild the SUs on both my 3 and 4. > > Bob > -- Kurtis Russellville, Arkansas 1963 TR4 - CT19389L 1959 AH Bugeye - AN5L23250 www.geocities.com/tr4_1963 From carlsereda at aol.com Mon Sep 28 17:46:58 2009 From: carlsereda at aol.com (carlsereda) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 16:46:58 -0700 Subject: [TR] TR] 2-speed wiper wiring diagram In-Reply-To: <1340856477.7664801254165104991.JavaMail.root@sz0135a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <5A134D9B.287E.4FA5.95AA.2A8B2F2874A2@aol.com> Tony, What you say makes my day.. the additional winding, which I seem to recall was of thinner wire and wound over the standard field coil about 50 times (ie; not very much I thought..) - is not for strengthening the magnetic field but for weakening it to give a slower speed! - I assumed it was to give a faster speed but now what you say makes a whole lot more sense - THANKS! Carl '63TR4 since '74 Carl, I helped Dan write his section on the 2-speed wipers in his electrical manual. I had a TR4A 2-speed motor out on my desk at the time. I did not dismantle it. I found that the "low" speed was obtained by grounding BOTH of the switched wires. It made no sense to me. A few hypotheses were made about why this may be true, but that seems to be the way it works. I have been tempted over the tears to pursue this further, but I never bothered. To me they are literally a black box, but I woud be interested to see how they really work! Keep me in the loop too! -Tony From ahwahnee18 at gmail.com Mon Sep 28 18:19:59 2009 From: ahwahnee18 at gmail.com (Geo Hahn) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 17:19:59 -0700 Subject: [TR] TR] 2-speed wiper wiring diagram In-Reply-To: <5A134D9B.287E.4FA5.95AA.2A8B2F2874A2@aol.com> References: <1340856477.7664801254165104991.JavaMail.root@sz0135a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> <5A134D9B.287E.4FA5.95AA.2A8B2F2874A2@aol.com> Message-ID: <7bb181af0909281719p11bb4b1bl2b2f9ba62158d119@mail.gmail.com> Carl -- I think I liked your first explanation better (that the additional windings increased the strength of the field and the motor's speed). Since the 1-speed motor has it's hot lead always on and the switch controls a ground it would not surprise me if on a 2-speed motor both windings were always connected to a hot lead and the switch controlled whether one or both were grounded. Interesting & mysterious. Geo From spook01 at comcast.net Mon Sep 28 18:47:56 2009 From: spook01 at comcast.net (spook01) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 19:47:56 -0500 Subject: [TR] brake drums for tr4 References: <200909271759.17952.yellowtr@adelphia.net> Message-ID: <6CFD79E4A454429CBE191231566CFD3A@yourpd3mh0abgs> Hello all, i am looking for a pair of rear drums for my '62 tr4 with steel wheels. if someone has one or two for sale, please let me know. i need to get it on the road for fall! Best, Ray From pcaffrey at ymail.com Mon Sep 28 19:52:47 2009 From: pcaffrey at ymail.com (P Caffrey) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 18:52:47 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [TR] TR4A Radiator Duct Message-ID: <110955.91388.qm@web59710.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Hi List, Checked on my TR4A restoration at the garage today and noticed a new radiator duct. Does anyone see anything wrong about the radiator duct pic on the link below? It seems small to me, as though it belongs on another car--other than a TR4A. Thanks for any feedback, Pat TR4A '67 http://s727.photobucket.com/albums/ww276/pcaffrey1/Radiator%20Duct/ From carlsereda at aol.com Mon Sep 28 20:23:20 2009 From: carlsereda at aol.com (carlsereda) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 19:23:20 -0700 Subject: [TR] TR] 2-speed wiper wiring diagram In-Reply-To: <7bb181af0909281719p11bb4b1bl2b2f9ba62158d119@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <5333C018.8EFE.48DA.8AA0.4C937ECAF6C8@aol.com> I don't know if you have a field winding with pos/neg going one way, and you overlay it with minor secondary winding with the opposite polarity - what happens.. does the magnetic force field gets stronger or weaker? I took a peek inside the 2-speed and it actually has only 10 loops of overlaying winding, not 50 like I thought, but I can't tell the polarities. A few years ago I was wondering how could a mere 10 additional loops of wire (thread insulation) on top of about 100 standard loops (lacquer insulated), could speed this motor up - but ahah, after Tony's info today - I'm thinking it may slow it down! Please, somebody tell us the answer! Regards, Carl '63 TR4 since '74 I think I liked your first explanation better (that the additional windings increased the strength of the field and the motor's speed). Since the 1-speed motor has it's hot lead always on and the switch controls a ground it would not surprise me if on a 2-speed motor both windings were always connected to a hot lead and the switch controlled whether one or both were grounded. Interesting & mysterious. Geo From fogbro1 at comcast.net Mon Sep 28 21:30:34 2009 From: fogbro1 at comcast.net (Ed Woods) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 23:30:34 -0400 Subject: [TR] TR] 2-speed wiper wiring diagram References: <5333C018.8EFE.48DA.8AA0.4C937ECAF6C8@aol.com> Message-ID: Anyone that's still interested, Spent the evening trying to figure out how the 2 speed wiper worked. Finally figured out the that second "winding" isn't a field winding at all. It's just a resistance wire that, when it's in series with the field winding, limits the current through it, weakening the field and producing the high speed mode. This high speed mode is produced by grounding only the red/light green wire. When both the brown/light green and red/light green are connected to ground simultaneously, the resistance wire is shorted, the shunt field current is increased because it now has a full 12 volts across it, and the motor runs at slow speed. Another clue to the function of the resistance wire and proof that it is not a field winding is that it cannot in itself cause the motor to turn, even w/o a load. This condition is produced by connecting only the brown/light green wire to ground. When you do so, nothing happens. Well, it does hum, draws a few amps, but doesn't turn. Took me a while, but age has something to do with not being able "think outside the box". I kept trying to make sense out of my observations based on the supposition the both windings were field windings. They're not. I have tested 3 of these motors. All work in the same manner. If you check out the dash switch on a TR4A or a TR250, I'll bet that the first position, the "slow" position, connects both the N/LG and R/LG wires to ground. The second position, "fast", only the R/LG to ground. Ed ----- Original Message ----- From: "carlsereda" To: "Geo Hahn" Cc: Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 10:23 PM Subject: Re: [TR] TR] 2-speed wiper wiring diagram >I don't know if you have a field winding with pos/neg going one way, and >you > overlay it with minor secondary winding with the opposite polarity - what > happens.. does the magnetic force field gets stronger or weaker? > I took a peek inside the 2-speed and it actually has only 10 loops of > overlaying winding, not 50 like I thought, but I can't tell the > polarities. > A few years ago I was wondering how could a mere 10 additional loops of > wire > (thread insulation) on top of about 100 standard loops (lacquer > insulated), > could speed this motor up - but ahah, after Tony's info today - I'm > thinking > it may slow it down! > Please, somebody tell us the answer! > Regards, > Carl > '63 TR4 since '74 > > I think I liked your first explanation better (that the additional > windings increased the strength of the field and the motor's speed). > Since the 1-speed motor has it's hot lead always on and the switch > controls a ground it would not surprise me if on a 2-speed motor both > windings were always connected to a hot lead and the switch controlled > whether one or both were grounded. > > Interesting & mysterious. > > Geo > _______________________________________________ > > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > This list supported in part by the Vintage Triumph Register > http://www.vtr.org > > > Triumphs at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs > > > http://www.team.net/archive From wbeech at flash.net Tue Sep 29 00:01:31 2009 From: wbeech at flash.net (wbeech at flash.net) Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 00:01:31 -0600 Subject: [TR] crossthreaded master cylinder-TR3 In-Reply-To: <1254172819.4ac128939d1fc@webmail.iquest.net> References: <1254172819.4ac128939d1fc@webmail.iquest.net> Message-ID: <60B7F0D1ABF145B2911DD0F0A74A4206@bboffice> IMHO: If you can't find a tap, or can't use it "in situ", you might try a thread file to clean up the beginning of the threads that you have damaged. Following that, use something other than the original nipple(preferabley steel) that fits to test it out and it too will help to straighten things out before you attempt to connect it up again. Bill -----Original Message----- From: triumphs-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:triumphs-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of chammock at iquest.net Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 3:20 PM To: triumphs at autox.team.net Subject: [TR] crossthreaded master cylinder-TR3 yep - header says it all. replacing brake lines after rebuild - got the darned thing started sideways and goobed up the first couple threads. Can I retap or is that folly? Safety first, you know. If chasing threads is a possibility, area taps readily available? This was the last connection to make on a complete hydraulic overhaul - doesn't it just make ironic sense? Thanks for your insights Pery Hammock TR3A This list supported in part by the Vintage Triumph Register http://www.vtr.org Triumphs at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs http://www.team.net/archive From carlsereda at aol.com Tue Sep 29 03:20:05 2009 From: carlsereda at aol.com (carlsereda) Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 02:20:05 -0700 Subject: [TR] TRs 2-speed wiper motor workings.. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <41178347.6D03.4A69.95BA.8AF827E48DB7@aol.com> I sure am interested Ed, and really appreciate your explanation. Let me rephrase what I think you mean, to see if I understand this correctly. 1) With the field winding circuit closed (100 loops of lacquered wire) you get the full magnetic field strength which runs the wiper motor at full speed. 2) With the field winding AND the shunt wiring (the added 10 loops of fabric covered wire around the 100 loops of lacquered wire) circuits both closed, in parallel, the shunt (the shorter path that doesn't induce a good magnetic field) carries some of the electricity, reducing the amount of electricity passing through the field winding which reduces the magnetic field strength, and reduces the motor's speed. 3) I think the first switch position would be to blast the electric motor with full magnetic field strength to get the cold electric motor started spinning, and to run it at full speed, and the second position inserts the shunt circuit to slow motor speed. Sound about right? Carl '63 TR4 since '74 ------------------------------- Anyone that's still interested, Spent the evening trying to figure out how the 2 speed wiper worked. Finally figured out the that second "winding" isn't a field winding at all. It's just a resistance wire that, when it's in series with the field winding, limits the current through it, weakening the field and producing the high speed mode. This high speed mode is produced by grounding only the red/light green wire. When both the brown/light green and red/light green are connected to ground simultaneously, the resistance wire is shorted, the shunt field current is increased because it now has a full 12 volts across it, and the motor runs at slow speed. Another clue to the function of the resistance wire and proof that it is not a field winding is that it cannot in itself cause the motor to turn, even w/o a load. This condition is produced by connecting only the brown/light green wire to ground. When you do so, nothing happens. Well, it does hum, draws a few amps, but doesn't turn. Took me a while, but age has something to do with not being able "think outside the box". I kept trying to make sense out of my observations based on the supposition the both windings were field windings. They're not. I have tested 3 of these motors. All work in the same manner. If you check out the dash switch on a TR4A or a TR250, I'll bet that the first position, the "slow" position, connects both the N/LG and R/LG wires to ground. The second position, "fast", only the R/LG to ground. Ed From carlsereda at aol.com Tue Sep 29 04:10:05 2009 From: carlsereda at aol.com (carlsereda) Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 03:10:05 -0700 Subject: [TR] moRe: TRs 2-speed wiper workings In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Shoot - right when I thought I had this 2-speed wiper electronics thing understood I read the following at a Jag site.. [The (DR1 2-speed wiper motor) armature is multi-pole and the magnetic field is generated from a field winding. The second, faster, speed is achieved by reducing the field current with a series resistor. A popular misconception is that the resistor is in circuit for the slower speed. This is incorrect. Reducing the field current reduces the magnetic flux. This has the effect of making the motor run faster but with reduced torque. The physical form of the resistor is a few turns of resistance wire wound around the field coil. For 12 volt versions of this unit the speed control resistor is 12 - 14 ohms and the resistance of the field winding itself, approximately 8 ohms. Normal running current is about 3 amps.] Now I think I can understand Ed's description better and will not try to rewrite it! (Thanks again Ed!) Carl '63 TR4 since '74 Anyone that's still interested, Spent the evening trying to figure out how the 2 speed wiper worked. Finally figured out the that second "winding" isn't a field winding at all. It's just a resistance wire that, From thebujas at comcast.net Tue Sep 29 04:50:12 2009 From: thebujas at comcast.net (Ann and Tim Buja) Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 05:50:12 -0500 Subject: [TR] 2-speed wiper wiring diagram In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I'm not familiar with the early 2-speed motor, but from what you're describing, the wiper motor is shunt wound, with the field winding connected in parallel with the rotor winding. A brief google search on shunt wound motors yielded the following at http://www.mpoweruk.com/motorsdc.htm ----------- Field Weakening The speed of a shunt wound motor can be controlled to a limited extent without affecting the supply voltage, by "field weakening". A rheostat in series with the field winding can be used to reduce the field current. This in turn reduces the flux in the air gap and since the speed is inversely proportional to the flux, the motor will speed up. However the torque is directly proportional to the flux in the air gap so that the speed increase will be accompanied by a reduction in torque. ----------- This application in the early TR wiper motor uses a fixed resistance instead of a variable rheostat to produce the second faster speed. My experience with field weakening was with industrial crane motors where field weakening was used to increase the speed of the motor when there was reduced or no load hanging from the crane. Hope this helps, Tim Buja - Rockford, IL From auprichard at comcast.net Tue Sep 29 05:52:20 2009 From: auprichard at comcast.net (Andrew Uprichard) Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 07:52:20 -0400 Subject: [TR] Removing radiator without removing apron on TR3A? In-Reply-To: <1415F96E1760EC4F9881942370DF3BCD026185E7@enteasvem001.enterprise.borgwarner.net> References: <3F0CBC6B6C874F91A5370CEBC0DC7F9B@HAMPC> <1415F96E1760EC4F9881942370DF3BCD026185E7@enteasvem001.enterprise.borgwarner.net> Message-ID: Like a rack and pinion? I recently finished a restoration but didn't do an R&P conversion at the time. Big mistake. Pulled it all apart last week and fitted a bolt-on conversion. Fantastic. Andrew -----Original Message----- From: triumphs-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:triumphs-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of cfisher at borgwarner.com Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 8:45 AM To: triumphs at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [TR] Removing radiator without removing apron on TR3A? Thanks to all for the input on getting the radiator out. I'll be taking the apron off and using a gear wrench on the bolts and needle nose vise grips on the cage nuts. I restored the car just a few years ago. It's all new hardware slathered in anti-seize, and never seen rain, so it shouldn't be too hard to remove. I just hate the likelihood of chipping paint. On the other hand it's an opportunity to get at a few other things while I'm at it. Cheers, Curt This list supported in part by the Vintage Triumph Register http://www.vtr.org Triumphs at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs http://www.team.net/archive From yellowtr at adelphia.net Tue Sep 29 06:13:40 2009 From: yellowtr at adelphia.net (Bob) Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 08:13:40 -0400 Subject: [TR] TR4A Radiator Duct In-Reply-To: <110955.91388.qm@web59710.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> References: <110955.91388.qm@web59710.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <200909290813.40759.yellowtr@adelphia.net> On Monday 28 September 2009 09:52:47 pm P Caffrey wrote: > Hi List, > Checked on my TR4A restoration at the garage today and noticed a new > radiator duct. Does anyone see anything wrong about the radiator duct pic > on the link below? It seems small to me, as though it belongs on another > car--other than a TR4A. > Thanks for any feedback, > Pat > TR4A '67 > http://s727.photobucket.com/albums/ww276/pcaffrey1/Radiator%20Duct/ Pat, It looks like the duct on my 63 TR4. I am not familiar with the different 4A radiator and not sure if the 4A duct was a different part number. May want to call the vendor where you purchased the part. BTW, I like the color of the car! Bob From mowog73 at sympatico.ca Tue Sep 29 09:12:16 2009 From: mowog73 at sympatico.ca (Mark Jones) Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 11:12:16 -0400 Subject: [TR] =?windows-1252?q?Going_to_look_at_a_TR250_=96_ballpark_value?= =?windows-1252?q?_please=2E?= Message-ID: Hi Everyone; I have been a long-time admirer of the TR250, but I am not new to Triumphs and lbcs in general. I have a 73 MGBGT, which has been a rolling restoration for the past 12 years. I have also owned a 80 Spitfire for 7 years, which I did a complete restoration on two winters ago (lots of new panels). And over the past year my step-son and I have been restoring a 76 TR7 for him. For years I have been telling my wife that I would trade both the MGBGT and the Spitfire for a TR250. Well my chance to obtain one may have arrived. Just recently a TR250 has come up for sale local to me. My wife knows that I have always wanted a TR250 and has given her blessing to go look and buy if it is worth restoring. The car is described in the ad as restoration project or for parts. Body is in good shape. An email from the seller stated: The car is complete , it has not run in many years, interior, bumpers, and lights are off the car. This is my wifes car and her Dad was working on it years ago. The car has been in a garage for 17yrs that I know of. Any areas of the car I should look at in particular in terms of assessing the shape of the car? Are there pieces that are next to impossible to get and that I should look to see if they are there with the car? Did many of these cars come with OD? Anything else I should know about these cars? Im hoping to go see the car in the next couple of days. Assuming that the body is okay; not requiring major panel restoration, and the frame is not in need of major reconstruction, what would a car like this be worth? I know its hard to place a value from the information I have, but I dont have a sense for what a TR250 in need of complete restoration is worth but would like to have a range before going to see it. My thought is that this a $1000+/- car. The guy's price is: "make an offer". Maybe I'll put $500 in my pocket and see what happens. All comments and advise are welcome. Mark From chandler.rick at comcast.net Tue Sep 29 09:38:17 2009 From: chandler.rick at comcast.net (Rick) Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 08:38:17 -0700 Subject: [TR] crossthreaded master cylinder-TR3 Message-ID: Pery, Once you have cleaned up the first few threads (I'm assuming that the mc thread body is not stripped) try the following for a smoother connection: 1. Lubricate the threads (1-1/2 wraps of Teflon tape work for me) before making the connection, and 2. Loosen, or even remove, the fasteners that hold the mc to the chassis. With this freedom of motion, you will be able to align and hand-tighten the threaded collar into the mc. Slowly wrench the collar until you feel it bottom, then turn it one additional flat. THEN re-fasten the mc to the chassis. Randall's suggestion of swapping the two mc's is a good one. I occasionally find my British motorcycle projects arriving with the front caliper line threads stripped. After inserting a heli-coil, I make it a practice of swapping the front and rear calipers to insure that emergency braking is there when I need it. Rick in Seattle 1960 Triumph TR3A 1970 BSA 441 Victor Special 1975 Norton 850 Commando Mk3 From carlsereda at aol.com Tue Sep 29 11:53:17 2009 From: carlsereda at aol.com (carlsereda) Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 10:53:17 -0700 Subject: [TR] TRs 2-speed wiper motor workings.. In-Reply-To: <8A97D6EF9B9E4DBAB4BA2E7D1821506E@Edscomputer> Message-ID: <1B2576BF.0566.4E97.8D2E.A33A5DA5AE59@aol.com> Thanks Ed for the reinforcement of your explanation! (I am not sure if your red text showed up to the VTR list in color as I saw it). I had to read up on some electronic terms to understand what you were saying but I find it very interesting. I found a very helpful 2-speed wiper motor and 2-speed switch explanation with color diagrams at a Jaguar page titled; The Lucas DR1 Windscreen Wiper Motor - you can see it at; http://www.jag-lovers.org/xk-lovers/library/wsmotor/motor.htm The author mentions that the DR3 2-speed most likely uses the same principal as the DR1 2-speed. >From what I can tell - I think so. Regards, Carl From ahwahnee18 at gmail.com Tue Sep 29 13:43:17 2009 From: ahwahnee18 at gmail.com (Geo Hahn) Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 12:43:17 -0700 Subject: [TR] TR4A Radiator Duct In-Reply-To: <200909290813.40759.yellowtr@adelphia.net> References: <110955.91388.qm@web59710.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <200909290813.40759.yellowtr@adelphia.net> Message-ID: <7bb181af0909291243k25e3fc25w8d4cf47a3436d9af@mail.gmail.com> Looks like the right part, possibly poorly fitted at the moment. May be that the radiator is not fully secured in its final position or other tweaking is yet to come. Here's a pic of mine: http://members.cybertrails.com/~ahwahnee/TR4%20Rad%20Duct.JPG > On Monday 28 September 2009 09:52:47 pm P Caffrey wrote: >> Hi List, >> Checked on my TR4A restoration at the garage today and noticed a new >> radiator duct. Does anyone see anything wrong about the radiator duct pic >> on the link below? It seems small to me, as though it belongs on another >> car--other than a TR4A. From spook01 at comcast.net Tue Sep 29 13:48:35 2009 From: spook01 at comcast.net (spook01 at comcast.net) Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 19:48:35 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [TR] nashville car show Message-ID: <1039407690.8497721254253715212.JavaMail.root@sz0151a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> i am sorry to bomb the list, but several have expressed interest in the show, so i am putting up the link: http://www.nashvillebritishcarclub.org/2008carshow and yes, we know it says 2008..! the host hotel is the wingate as shown below, and we have a reception planned the evening before the show at a local car museum/storage area/race prep shop!! if you are able to make the drive, don't miss it!! best, rayB All British Car Show Saturday October 10th Harlinsdale Farm Park, Franklin TN Host Hotel - Wingate Hotel, 1738 Carothers Pkwy, Brentwood, TN 37027 Schedule of Events: Friday, Oct 9 Pre Show Reception - Vintage Classic Car Garage - 400 Gothic Court, Franklin, TN Open only to show pre-registrants but you can pre-register at the party! Saturday, Oct 10 Car show at Harlinsdale Farm Park (Across from The Factory on Hiway 31 in Franklin) 8 -10 am - registration 10 am - 2 pm - class voting 3 pm - awards presentation From spook01 at comcast.net Tue Sep 29 14:00:14 2009 From: spook01 at comcast.net (spook01 at comcast.net) Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 20:00:14 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [TR] =?utf-8?q?Going_to_look_at_a_TR250_=E2=80=93_ballpark_value_?= =?utf-8?q?please=2E?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1617950563.8503961254254414065.JavaMail.root@sz0151a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> "Maybe I'll put $500 in my pocket and see what happens." you can always go up. you can't ever go down....... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Jones" To: triumphs at autox.team.net, 6pack at autox.team.net Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2009 10:12:16 AM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central Subject: [TR] Going to look at a TR250 b ballpark value please. Hi Everyone; I have been a long-time admirer of the TR250, but I am not new to Triumphs and lbcs in general. I have a 73 MGBGT, which has been a rolling restoration for the past 12 years. I have also owned a 80 Spitfire for 7 years, which I did a complete restoration on two winters ago (lots of new panels). And over the past year my step-son and I have been restoring a 76 TR7 for him. For years I have been telling my wife that I would trade both the MGBGT and the Spitfire for a TR250. Well my chance to obtain one may have arrived. Just recently a TR250 has come up for sale local to me. My wife knows that I have always wanted a TR250 and has given her blessing to go look and buy if it is worth restoring. The car is described in the ad as restoration project or for parts. Body is in good shape. An email from the seller stated: The car is complete , it has not run in many years, interior, bumpers, and lights are off the car. This is my wifes car and her Dad was working on it years ago. The car has been in a garage for 17yrs that I know of. Any areas of the car I should look at in particular in terms of assessing the shape of the car? B Are there pieces that are next to impossible to get and that I should look to see if they are there with the car? B Did many of these cars come with OD? B Anything else I should know about these cars? Im hoping to go see the car in the next couple of days. Assuming that the body is okay; not requiring major panel restoration, and the frame is not in need of major reconstruction, what would a car like this be worth? I know its hard to place a value from the information I have, but I dont have a sense for what a TR250 in need of complete restoration is worth but would like to have a range before going to see it. My thought is that this a $1000+/- car. The guy's price is: "make an offer". Maybe I'll put $500 in my pocket and see what happens. All comments and advise are welcome. Mark This list supported in part by the Vintage Triumph Register http://www.vtr.org Triumphs at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs http://www.team.net/archive From geo at ohio.net Tue Sep 29 14:31:26 2009 From: geo at ohio.net (geo) Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 16:31:26 -0400 Subject: [TR] =?iso-8859-1?q?Going_to_look_at_a_TR250_-_ballpark_value_ple?= =?iso-8859-1?q?ase=2E?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <04DB0A77795F4D96B1A25A238877AA1D@geoPC> sounds like real fun.... if it's really not worth much tell him when he has exhausted all possibilities call you. his wife will probably want it gone. i've gotten some steals this way. 250's are scarce so if you have to have one & you can build it back buy it ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Jones" To: ; <6pack at autox.team.net> Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2009 11:12 AM Subject: [TR] Going to look at a TR250 - ballpark value please. > Hi Everyone; > > I have been a long-time admirer of the TR250, but I am not new to Triumphs > and > lbcs in general. I have a 73 MGBGT, which has been a rolling restoration > for > the past 12 years. I have also owned a 80 Spitfire for 7 years, which I > did a > complete restoration on two winters ago (lots of new panels). And over the > past year my step-son and I have been restoring a 76 TR7 for him. > > For years I have been telling my wife that I would trade both the MGBGT > and > the Spitfire for a TR250. Well my chance to obtain one may have arrived. > Just > recently a TR250 has come up for sale local to me. My wife knows that I > have > always wanted a TR250 and has given her blessing to go look and buy if it > is > worth restoring. > > The car is described in the ad as restoration project or for parts. Body > is > in good shape. An email from the seller stated: The car is complete , it > has > not run in many years, interior, bumpers, and lights are off the car. This > is > my wifes car and her Dad was working on it years ago. The car has been in > a > garage for 17yrs that I know of. > > Any areas of the car I should look at in particular in terms of assessing > the > shape of the car? Are there pieces that are next to impossible to get > and > that I should look to see if they are there with the car? Did many of > these > cars come with OD? Anything else I should know about these cars? > > Im hoping to go see the car in the next couple of days. Assuming that the > body is okay; not requiring major panel restoration, and the frame is not > in > need of major reconstruction, what would a car like this be worth? I know > its > hard to place a value from the information I have, but I dont have a > sense > for what a TR250 in need of complete restoration is worth but would like > to > have a range before going to see it. My thought is that this a $1000+/- > car. > The guy's price is: "make an offer". Maybe I'll put $500 in my pocket and > see > what happens. > > All comments and advise are welcome. > > Mark > _______________________________________________ > > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > This list supported in part by the Vintage Triumph Register > http://www.vtr.org > > > Triumphs at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs > > > http://www.team.net/archive From pcaffrey at ymail.com Tue Sep 29 15:23:46 2009 From: pcaffrey at ymail.com (P Caffrey) Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 14:23:46 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [TR] TR4A Radiator Duct In-Reply-To: <200909290813.40759.yellowtr@adelphia.net> References: <110955.91388.qm@web59710.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <200909290813.40759.yellowtr@adelphia.net> Message-ID: <641741.54219.qm@web59702.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Bob, My old duct looked like Geo's as shown on his link. I attached another not so great pic to the link below....This duct doesn't go to the top of the radiator but is several inches below the top, plus there's a large gap between the radiator and the duct.....I'll have to do more investigating. Thanks for the replies, Pat http://s727.photobucket.com/albums/ww276/pcaffrey1/Radiator%20Duct/ ________________________________ From: Bob To: triumphs at autox.team.net Cc: P Caffrey Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2009 5:13:40 AM Subject: Re: [TR] TR4A Radiator Duct On Monday 28 September 2009 09:52:47 pm P Caffrey wrote: > Hi List, > Checked on my TR4A restoration at the garage today and noticed a new > radiator duct. Does anyone see anything wrong about the radiator duct pic > on the link below? It seems small to me, as though it belongs on another > car--other than a TR4A. > Thanks for any feedback, > Pat > TR4A '67 > http://s727.photobucket.com/albums/ww276/pcaffrey1/Radiator%20Duct/ Pat, It looks like the duct on my 63 TR4. I am not familiar with the different 4A radiator and not sure if the 4A duct was a different part number. May want to call the vendor where you purchased the part. BTW, I like the color of the car! Bob From jerryvv at roadrunner.com Tue Sep 29 16:25:47 2009 From: jerryvv at roadrunner.com (Jerry Van Vlack) Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 18:25:47 -0400 Subject: [TR] TR4A Radiator Duct References: <110955.91388.qm@web59710.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <200909290813.40759.yellowtr@adelphia.net> Message-ID: Unfortunately it looks like that's all that is available and it's OK for a TR4 but not for a 4A. I wish I'd have kept my original one as it is very different from these. I may try the TR250 system as that radiator is more like the 4A than is the TR4 radiator. JVV ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob" To: Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2009 8:13 AM Subject: Re: [TR] TR4A Radiator Duct > On Monday 28 September 2009 09:52:47 pm P Caffrey wrote: >> Hi List, >> Checked on my TR4A restoration at the garage today and noticed a new >> radiator duct. Does anyone see anything wrong about the radiator duct >> pic >> on the link below? It seems small to me, as though it belongs on another >> car--other than a TR4A. >> Thanks for any feedback, >> Pat >> TR4A '67 >> http://s727.photobucket.com/albums/ww276/pcaffrey1/Radiator%20Duct/ > Pat, > > It looks like the duct on my 63 TR4. I am not familiar with the different > 4A > radiator and not sure if the 4A duct was a different part number. May want > to > call the vendor where you purchased the part. > > BTW, I like the color of the car! > > Bob From auprichard at comcast.net Tue Sep 29 16:29:50 2009 From: auprichard at comcast.net (Andrew Uprichard) Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 18:29:50 -0400 Subject: [TR] Going to look at a TR250 - ballpark value please. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Mark: I too always wanted a 250 and bought one in January of this year. After stripping it down and seeing what I had gotten into, I sold it for an expert to restore. My advice is, unless you are an established restorer (I have restored two bad TR3s, but this I couldn't handle), pay more and get a better car to begin with - advice which applies regardless of what this car is like. Body and frame is what matters. Look especially at the trailing arms for the rear suspension but the frames need a thorough inspection if you are to avoid a nreplacement. Look at the inner sills - if they are gone, I'd be careful. If you have to get professional help, a restoration can become a nightmare. Then all the obvious stuff: is it straight? previous repairs? how does the bonnet align? is the boot salvageable? I wouldn't even worry about the mechanical stuff - it will likely all have to be replaced. I paid $750 for my car and sold it for the same. A parts 250 is probably worth a grand and a restorable car easily $2000. I look forward to what the rest of the list thinks - feel free to disagree. Andrew Uprichard -----Original Message----- From: triumphs-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:triumphs-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Mark Jones Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2009 11:12 AM To: triumphs at autox.team.net; 6pack at autox.team.net Subject: [TR] Going to look at a TR250 - ballpark value please. Hi Everyone; I have been a long-time admirer of the TR250, but I am not new to Triumphs and lbcs in general. I have a 73 MGBGT, which has been a rolling restoration for the past 12 years. I have also owned a 80 Spitfire for 7 years, which I did a complete restoration on two winters ago (lots of new panels). And over the past year my step-son and I have been restoring a 76 TR7 for him. For years I have been telling my wife that I would trade both the MGBGT and the Spitfire for a TR250. Well my chance to obtain one may have arrived. Just recently a TR250 has come up for sale local to me. My wife knows that I have always wanted a TR250 and has given her blessing to go look and buy if it is worth restoring. The car is described in the ad as restoration project or for parts. Body is in good shape. An email from the seller stated: The car is complete , it has not run in many years, interior, bumpers, and lights are off the car. This is my wifes car and her Dad was working on it years ago. The car has been in a garage for 17yrs that I know of. Any areas of the car I should look at in particular in terms of assessing the shape of the car? Are there pieces that are next to impossible to get and that I should look to see if they are there with the car? Did many of these cars come with OD? Anything else I should know about these cars? Im hoping to go see the car in the next couple of days. Assuming that the body is okay; not requiring major panel restoration, and the frame is not in need of major reconstruction, what would a car like this be worth? I know its hard to place a value from the information I have, but I dont have a sense for what a TR250 in need of complete restoration is worth but would like to have a range before going to see it. My thought is that this a $1000+/- car. The guy's price is: "make an offer". Maybe I'll put $500 in my pocket and see what happens. All comments and advise are welcome. Mark This list supported in part by the Vintage Triumph Register http://www.vtr.org Triumphs at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs http://www.team.net/archive From Catpusher at aol.com Tue Sep 29 18:03:17 2009 From: Catpusher at aol.com (Catpusher at aol.com) Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 20:03:17 EDT Subject: [TR] Subject: Re: towing Message-ID: Well, my 67 E Type cost $3100 in 1970 with 19,000 miles on the odo; it is now close to 250,000 miles, and has never had the crank out of the block. I suspect that it is worth a bit more than I paid for it too, but it is NOT for sale! (nor are any of my Triumphs!) I did select the E Type partly to tow the TR3. The rig was good for 38 MPG per car towing (the TR3 used nothing in this mode) and we made all the races over all the mountain ranges with no serious mechanical problems. Two great cars. A slightly larger tow vehicle and a small trailer (with brakes), per Joe Alexander's idea, is much safer and much less work. Hardy In a message dated 9/28/2009 8:35:14 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, Dave1massey at cs.com writes: Towing a TR3 behind a Jag. Is that conspicuous consumption or what? ;-) Seriously, I'm envious. Dave I flat towed my national championship TR3 race car for 100,000 plus miles behind me 67 E Type Jaguar; my only two cars at the time. As I was living in SF, a trailer was not realistic on my budget, and the E Type would not have enjoyed it. It was economical, dangerous, annoying, but necessary. I did disconnect the drive shaft. From rlwhitetr3b at hotmail.com Tue Sep 29 18:08:40 2009 From: rlwhitetr3b at hotmail.com (Rich White) Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 19:08:40 -0500 Subject: [TR] =?windows-1252?q?Going_to_look_at_a_TR250_=96_ballpark_value?= =?windows-1252?q?_please=2E?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: One of the guys on another list, who buys and sell a lot of cars, suggest that you put the money you want to pay for the car in one pocket and the amount you are willing to add in another. If you can not get the car for the amount you have decided on, give him your best offer and phone number on a card and go home. He says that the sight of the cash will lower the price. The worst thing you can do is get your emotions involved in the purchase. I do not know how well I would do at following his suggestions, but it is a goal. Rich White St. Joseph, IL USA '63 TR3B TCF587L That ain't a scrap pile, that is my car! > From: mowog73 at sympatico.ca > To: triumphs at autox.team.net; 6pack at autox.team.net > Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 11:12:16 -0400 > Subject: [TR] Going to look at a TR250  ballpark value please. > > Hi Everyone; > > I have been a long-time admirer of the TR250, but I am not new to Triumphs and > lbcs in general. I have a 73 MGBGT, which has been a rolling restoration for > the past 12 years. I have also owned a 80 Spitfire for 7 years, which I did a > complete restoration on two winters ago (lots of new panels). And over the > past year my step-son and I have been restoring a 76 TR7 for him. > > For years I have been telling my wife that I would trade both the MGBGT and > the Spitfire for a TR250. Well my chance to obtain one may have arrived. Just > recently a TR250 has come up for sale local to me. My wife knows that I have > always wanted a TR250 and has given her blessing to go look and buy if it is > worth restoring. > > The car is described in the ad as restoration project or for parts. Body is > in good shape. An email from the seller stated: The car is complete , it has > not run in many years, interior, bumpers, and lights are off the car. This is > my wifes car and her Dad was working on it years ago. The car has been in a > garage for 17yrs that I know of. > > Any areas of the car I should look at in particular in terms of assessing the > shape of the car? Are there pieces that are next to impossible to get and > that I should look to see if they are there with the car? Did many of these > cars come with OD? Anything else I should know about these cars? > > Im hoping to go see the car in the next couple of days. Assuming that the > body is okay; not requiring major panel restoration, and the frame is not in > need of major reconstruction, what would a car like this be worth? I know its > hard to place a value from the information I have, but I dont have a sense > for what a TR250 in need of complete restoration is worth but would like to > have a range before going to see it. My thought is that this a $1000+/- car. > The guy's price is: "make an offer". Maybe I'll put $500 in my pocket and see > what happens. > > All comments and advise are welcome. > > Mark > _______________________________________________ > > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > This list supported in part by the Vintage Triumph Register > http://www.vtr.org > > > Triumphs at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs > > > http://www.team.net/archive From nafzigerg at yahoo.com Tue Sep 29 20:24:57 2009 From: nafzigerg at yahoo.com (Gary Nafziger) Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 19:24:57 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [TR] oil pressure Message-ID: <466337.23745.qm@web65316.mail.ac2.yahoo.com> just a quickie.......my oil pressure has been amazing since engine rebuild (tr-6) ........cold start 70+.......then 40 at hot idle. suddenly now its 50 cold start and 40 running warmed up ..........at idle around 20. I've taken off the line to guage and blown it out, hooked up another older guage I had on hand and tested it with same results. also checked the spring in pressure valve ect. the spring is one millimeter shorter than suggested length but I'm thinmking thats not significant. ?? I have around 1,000 miles on the rebuild......already changed oil at 300 miles. Will do another oil/filter change soon. I'm not seriously worried about this and plan on running as is. But just curious why and wondering if anyone else has had similar results. gary n. From amfoto1 at aol.com Tue Sep 29 20:58:21 2009 From: amfoto1 at aol.com (Alan Myers) Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 22:58:21 -0400 Subject: [TR] TR4A Radiator Duct In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8CC0F9100B71D0F-37F0-80D8@webmail-m072.sysops.aol.com> Hi Pat, That looks quite similar to the duct that came with my '62 TR4. It was "fibreboard", aka cardboard or chipboard and exactly that shape and size, as best I can tell from the photos. The only difference, the one in my car had a black finish on the "top" side seen in your?photos.?It?appeared to be a layer of black paper. Inside it was more brown than gray. I bought my car in the late 1970s and would guess the duct was original (it still had the original gearbox cover, which was similar material). The fibreboard in my car was in bad shape. I reinforced it on the inside with fiberglass cloth and soaked it with resin (did the same with the gearbox cover). It lasted another ten years or so, after which I finally replaced it with a homemade?aluminum duct. I've seen replacement ducts (and gearbox covers)?made of black plastic, too. I don't know if the TR4A used exactly the same duct as the TR4 (or the TR250/5, for that matter). I know the radiator itself is different (mine is the "long neck" same as was used in the TR3A). Perhaps one of Bill Piggott's books shows the radiator ducts. Alan Myers San Jose, California amfoto1 at aol.com '62 TR4 CT17602L http://www.triumphowners.com/640 ------------------------------ Message: 11 Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 18:52:47 -0700 (PDT) From: P Caffrey Subject: [TR] TR4A Radiator Duct To: list Triumph Message-ID: <110955.91388.qm at web59710.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi List, Checked on my TR4A restoration at the garage today and noticed a new radiator duct. Does anyone see anything wrong about the radiator duct pic on the link below? It seems small to me, as though it belongs on another car--other than a TR4A. Thanks for any feedback, Pat TR4A '67 http://s727.photobucket.com/albums/ww276/pcaffrey1/Radiator%20Duct/ ------------------------------ From pcaffrey at ymail.com Tue Sep 29 21:44:04 2009 From: pcaffrey at ymail.com (P Caffrey) Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 20:44:04 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [TR] TR4A Radiator Duct Message-ID: <329872.7805.qm@web59712.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Hi Alan, Thank you for the reply. The 4A radiator duct, from what I've heard through my inquiry on the List, appears to be a different design relative to the TR4. Also, the 4A duct is apparently hard to find though I'm still searching. I'm checking with TRF and Triumphs Only for availability of this duct. I believe Moss only has the TR4 version....I may have to make an aluminum/plastic duct as you did. Thanks again, Pat ________________________________ From: Alan Myers To: triumphs at autox.team.net Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2009 7:58:21 PM Subject: Re: [TR] TR4A Radiator Duct Hi Pat, That looks quite similar to the duct that came with my '62 TR4. It was "fibreboard", aka cardboard or chipboard and exactly that shape and size, as best I can tell from the photos. The only difference, the one in my car had a black finish on the "top" side seen in your?photos.?It?appeared to be a layer of black paper. Inside it was more brown than gray. I bought my car in the late 1970s and would guess the duct was original (it still had the original gearbox cover, which was similar material). The fibreboard in my car was in bad shape. I reinforced it on the inside with fiberglass cloth and soaked it with resin (did the same with the gearbox cover). It lasted another ten years or so, after which I finally replaced it with a homemade?aluminum duct. I've seen replacement ducts (and gearbox covers)?made of black plastic, too. I don't know if the TR4A used exactly the same duct as the TR4 (or the TR250/5, for that matter). I know the radiator itself is different (mine is the "long neck" same as was used in the TR3A). Perhaps one of Bill Piggott's books shows the radiator ducts. Alan Myers San Jose, California amfoto1 at aol.com '62 TR4 CT17602L http://www.triumphowners.com/640 ------------------------------ Message: 11 Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 18:52:47 -0700 (PDT) From: P Caffrey Subject: [TR] TR4A Radiator Duct To: list Triumph Message-ID: <110955.91388.qm at web59710.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi List, Checked on my TR4A restoration at the garage today and noticed a new radiator duct. Does anyone see anything wrong about the radiator duct pic on the link below? It seems small to me, as though it belongs on another car--other than a TR4A. Thanks for any feedback, Pat TR4A '67 http://s727.photobucket.com/albums/ww276/pcaffrey1/Radiator%20Duct/ ------------------------------ This list supported in part by the Vintage Triumph Register http://www.vtr.org Triumphs at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs http://www.team.net/archive From suhringtr36 at comcast.net Wed Sep 30 04:46:18 2009 From: suhringtr36 at comcast.net (Scott Suhring) Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 06:46:18 -0400 Subject: [TR] TR3 Windscreen glazing Message-ID: <91399C397F624E09988273A0E65B742B@Scott> I am curious if there is any advice on best to install the rubber glazing around the windscreen and fitting this into the frame. Seems like a tight fit. TIA Scott Suhring Mechanicsburg, PA '70 TR6 '59 TR3 From auprichard at comcast.net Wed Sep 30 05:33:27 2009 From: auprichard at comcast.net (Andrew Uprichard) Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 07:33:27 -0400 Subject: [TR] TR3 Windscreen glazing In-Reply-To: <91399C397F624E09988273A0E65B742B@Scott> References: <91399C397F624E09988273A0E65B742B@Scott> Message-ID: I used epoxy to glue the glazing to the glass (trim at the corners) and then a lot of soap and water to get it into the frame. Andrew -----Original Message----- From: triumphs-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:triumphs-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Scott Suhring Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 6:46 AM To: Triumph Mail List Subject: [TR] TR3 Windscreen glazing I am curious if there is any advice on best to install the rubber glazing around the windscreen and fitting this into the frame. Seems like a tight fit. TIA Scott Suhring Mechanicsburg, PA '70 TR6 '59 TR3 This list supported in part by the Vintage Triumph Register http://www.vtr.org Triumphs at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs http://www.team.net/archive From mbarre at juno.com Wed Sep 30 10:52:19 2009 From: mbarre at juno.com (Matt) Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 16:52:19 GMT Subject: [TR] Valvoline synthetic brake fluid Message-ID: <20090930.125219.1789.2@webmail13.vgs.untd.com> Has anyone successfully used this dot3/4 product in their Triumph? I am having a tough time finding Castrol LMA and need to so some brake work? Pls reply direct as I am a digester! Thanks, Matt ____________________________________________________________ Best Weight Loss Program - Click Here! http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/BLSrjpTFoYcO7YlO6iRvLkf5erApzCGGs kL4AOvpiOUyyz3evsx4tGJezU8/ From ahwahnee18 at gmail.com Wed Sep 30 13:47:22 2009 From: ahwahnee18 at gmail.com (Geo Hahn) Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 12:47:22 -0700 Subject: [TR] =?windows-1252?q?Going_to_look_at_a_TR250_=96_ballpark_value?= =?windows-1252?q?_please=2E?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7bb181af0909301247s7cd6c14at18d06e0286de6ab8@mail.gmail.com> On 9/29/09, Rich White wrote: > The worst thing you can do is get your emotions involved in the purchase. > > I do not know how well I would do at following his suggestions, but it is a > goal. I understand the concept but... the day I can buy a British car without involving my emotions will be the day I look for a different hobby. I think your second sentence there applies to most of us here. Geo From frede.thomas2 at verizon.net Wed Sep 30 14:08:42 2009 From: frede.thomas2 at verizon.net (FRED E THOMAS) Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 16:08:42 -0400 Subject: [TR] Info Help Message-ID: <5A1FEA9A4B31432E977ABCD18FBCC2DE@fred8kwiskhcfu> Any one have a address or phone number for =="MARTY JONES"== lives in Maryland, also a member of ="TRA"=. Thanks FT From rhelman at gmail.com Wed Sep 30 16:03:55 2009 From: rhelman at gmail.com (Roger Helman) Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 15:03:55 -0700 Subject: [TR] check out the group 44 GT6 on Jay leno's garage Message-ID: <779de48e0909301503u2c88fcaby4d686be2a2534986@mail.gmail.com> http://www.jaylenosgarage.com/ great video and awesome sound. -- Roger Helman rhelman at gmail.com From lee at automate-it.com Wed Sep 30 16:29:09 2009 From: lee at automate-it.com (Lee Daniels) Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 17:29:09 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [TR] check out the group 44 GT6 on Jay leno's garage In-Reply-To: <779de48e0909301503u2c88fcaby4d686be2a2534986@mail.gmail.com> References: <779de48e0909301503u2c88fcaby4d686be2a2534986@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <3837.192.246.38.159.1254349749.squirrel@www.automate-it.com> > http://www.jaylenosgarage.com/ > great video and awesome sound. Sweet. And he ran with the Strombergs. Did you hear Jay call it a "Spitfire" there near the beginning? My first two cars were a '68 GT6 (paid $650 in 1975) and when it got crunched, a '69 GT6+ (paid $975 in 1976). Have loved them ever since. Great running cars, but really pretty uncomfortably hot in Texas summers. But if it weren't for the two-and-a-half TR6's scattered about my garage, I'd get another one. - Lee From chammock at iquest.net Wed Sep 30 14:43:19 2009 From: chammock at iquest.net (chammock at iquest.net) Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 16:43:19 -0400 Subject: [TR] TR3 Master cylinder - thanks! Message-ID: <1254343399.4ac3c2e73bb05@webmail.iquest.net> Thansk to thos who responded to my stripped threads question. I placed an order with TRF today - better fast and safe than fast and sorry! Appreciate the opinions on reattaching too thanks again, guys! Perry Hammock From terryrs at comcast.net Wed Sep 30 16:50:10 2009 From: terryrs at comcast.net (terryrs at comcast.net) Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 22:50:10 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [TR] Valvoline synthetic brake fluid In-Reply-To: <20090930.125219.1789.2@webmail13.vgs.untd.com> Message-ID: <1885267014.8143471254351010988.JavaMail.root@sz0059a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> >Has anyone successfully used this dot3/4 product in their Triumph? B I am >having a tough time finding Castrol LMA and need to so some brake work? >Pls reply direct as I am a digester! Matt, I don't know about Castrol, but I do run AGS silicone brake fluid, and have since I restored TR3A TS 58667.B Am a fairly animated daily driver, abeit drive far enough ahead to very rarely need to brake hard.B Am also a sloppy mechanic with few fine motor skills, meaning I spill stuff I shouldn't.B Given the non-corrosive benefits, and the high performance, I would never go back.B Of course, I'm talking about DOT 5, not 3/4. Terry Smith, '59 TR3A New Hampshire From dogzbody1 at yahoo.com Wed Sep 30 17:21:21 2009 From: dogzbody1 at yahoo.com (Steve Smith) Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 16:21:21 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [TR] =?utf-8?q?Going_to_look_at_a_TR250_=E2=80=93_ballpark_value_?= =?utf-8?q?please=2E?= In-Reply-To: <7bb181af0909301247s7cd6c14at18d06e0286de6ab8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <728593.81774.qm@web51302.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Judging by all the Miatas I see it must be possible, but I don't think I'm up to it TR6 CC25805 --- On Wed, 9/30/09, Geo Hahn wrote: > From: Geo Hahn > Subject: Re: [TR] Going to look at a TR250 b ballpark value please. > To: "Rich White" > Cc: "TR List" > Date: Wednesday, September 30, 2009, 12:47 PM > On 9/29/09, Rich White > wrote: > > > The worst thing you can do is get your emotions > involved in the purchase. > > > > I do not know how well I would do at following his > suggestions, but it is a > > goal. > > I understand the concept but... the day I can buy a British > car > without involving my emotions will be the day I look for a > different > hobby. > > I think your second sentence there applies to most of us > here. > > Geo > _______________________________________________ > > Support Team.NetB http://www.team.net/donate.html > > This list supported in part by the Vintage Triumph > Register > http://www.vtr.org > > > Triumphs at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs > > > http://www.team.net/archive From jhtschmitt at yahoo.com Wed Sep 30 17:30:04 2009 From: jhtschmitt at yahoo.com (jane schmitt) Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 16:30:04 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [TR] Monza Style Exhaust Message-ID: <780934.50870.qm@web30603.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Group, I am selling a Monza style exhaust.If you are interested please check Charleston,SC Craigslist for pictures. They are in excellent condition. Thanks Jane From mark at bradakis.com Wed Sep 30 17:57:49 2009 From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J Bradakis) Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 17:57:49 -0600 Subject: [TR] Valvoline synthetic brake fluid In-Reply-To: <20090930.125219.1789.2@webmail13.vgs.untd.com> References: <20090930.125219.1789.2@webmail13.vgs.untd.com> Message-ID: <4AC3F07D.3030102@bradakis.com> Yes, I used Valvoline synthetic in the Killer Spit for several years, and the red racer as well. Had no problems with brake fade, at least related to the fluid. Now when that alternator wire came loose and did electric discharge machining on a front brake line ... mjb. From rengrave at verizon.net Wed Sep 30 18:16:32 2009 From: rengrave at verizon.net (Wayne) Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 20:16:32 -0400 Subject: [TR] oil pressure In-Reply-To: <466337.23745.qm@web65316.mail.ac2.yahoo.com> References: <466337.23745.qm@web65316.mail.ac2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <564B247FFEA84553B2EFA8DFF9C551BE@RossFamily> I just my TR6 on the rroad after an engine rebuild and I am getting the same results. 90 #s at highway speeds, 40 at idle. I have only been running the car for a week and I am still running break-in oil 30 wt non-detergent with a pint of Lucas oil additive (zinc/moly). My odometer is not working, but I think I have about 200 miles on the new engine. Wayne 73 TR6 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary Nafziger" To: Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2009 10:24 PM Subject: [TR] oil pressure > just a quickie.......my oil pressure has been amazing since engine rebuild > (tr-6) ........cold start 70+.......then 40 at hot idle. > > suddenly now its > 50 cold start and 40 running warmed up ..........at idle around 20. > > I've > taken off the line to guage and blown it out, hooked up another older > guage I > had on hand and tested it with same results. also checked the spring in > pressure valve ect. the spring is one millimeter shorter than suggested > length but I'm thinmking thats not significant. ?? I have around 1,000 > miles on the rebuild......already changed oil at 300 miles. Will do > another > oil/filter change soon. > > I'm not seriously worried about this and plan on > running as is. But just curious why and wondering if anyone else has had > similar results. > > gary n. > _______________________________________________ > > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > This list supported in part by the Vintage Triumph Register > http://www.vtr.org > > > Triumphs at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs > > > http://www.team.net/archive From rlwhitetr3b at hotmail.com Wed Sep 30 19:34:15 2009 From: rlwhitetr3b at hotmail.com (Rich White) Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 20:34:15 -0500 Subject: [TR] =?windows-1252?q?Going_to_look_at_a_TR250_=96_ballpark_value?= =?windows-1252?q?_please=2E?= In-Reply-To: <7bb181af0909301247s7cd6c14at18d06e0286de6ab8@mail.gmail.com> References: Message-ID: I think what he was saying is that while you might want a particular model of car, try not to get attached to a individual example until you find the right one. These are car not stray cats. (see my second statement) %^) Rich White St. Joseph, IL USA '63 TR3B TCF587L That ain't a scrap pile, that is my car! See it moves! > Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 12:47:22 -0700 > Subject: Re: [TR] Going to look at a TR250  ballpark value please. > From: ahwahnee18 at gmail.com > To: rlwhitetr3b at hotmail.com > CC: triumphs at autox.team.net > > On 9/29/09, Rich White wrote: > > > The worst thing you can do is get your emotions involved in the purchase. > > > > I do not know how well I would do at following his suggestions, but it is a > > goal. > > I understand the concept but... the day I can buy a British car > without involving my emotions will be the day I look for a different > hobby. > > I think your second sentence there applies to most of us here. > > Geo From jhtschmitt at yahoo.com Wed Sep 30 19:36:31 2009 From: jhtschmitt at yahoo.com (jane schmitt) Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 18:36:31 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [TR] Monza style exhaust Message-ID: <839176.79137.qm@web30606.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Group, The exhaust that I mentioned came off of a 74 TR6.Sorry.It came with my car when I bought it.The price is $200.Let me know if I can answer any questions.Thanks Jane From rengrave at verizon.net Wed Sep 30 19:45:18 2009 From: rengrave at verizon.net (Wayne) Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 21:45:18 -0400 Subject: [TR] Dieseling and pinging Message-ID: I just got the TR6 on the road after an engine rebuild. The head was shaved to raise the compression and I know this may cause pinging. Engine was started with high octane fuel and ran fine, but after a few days, I filled up with regular fuel and I am getting pinging when accelerating. My question is do I have to run high octane fuel or fuel additives or can I adjust the ZS carbs? The engine also keeps running after I turn it off, I think this is called dieseling. What causes this? Will carb air/fuel adjustment fix it? I also tried to check the timing with a timing light, but what I found didn'y make sense to me. I set the static timing before the initial start-up @ 12 BTDC and the engine started right up :). After driving the car, I thought the acceleration was underpowered, so I tried timing the engine with a timing light, with engine @ idle 800 RPM, and the vacuum advance still attached, I was no where near 4 ATDC. And when I tried to rotate the distributor to advance the timing to 4 ATDC, the engine would run rough. I ended up rotating the distributor the opposite way and ended up at around 10 BTDC.???? I went by sound not by what the light showed me. Does this make sence? I also removed the vacuum tube from the advance on the distributor and it did not make any difference to the idle? Should I be concerned that my vacuum advance is not working? Any info on this will be apprieciated. Wayne 73 TR6 From tr4zest at gmail.com Wed Sep 30 20:48:21 2009 From: tr4zest at gmail.com (Brian Jones) Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 22:48:21 -0400 Subject: [TR] oil pressure In-Reply-To: <564B247FFEA84553B2EFA8DFF9C551BE@RossFamily> References: <466337.23745.qm@web65316.mail.ac2.yahoo.com> <564B247FFEA84553B2EFA8DFF9C551BE@RossFamily> Message-ID: What weight oil are you both using?Gary: I think 40 hot, if with a 20wt-50, is on the ow side but manageable. I wonder why it is low? Wayne: 90 lbs? I thought a pressure relief valve would come in to play at around ~70lbs. My TR4, with 20wt-50, starts cold in temperate weather with ~75lbs/35lbs (running/idle). After several hours of interstate, it drops to 60/30lbs. Yesterday, running through the Mojave Desert to the VTR National, it was 118 degrees. My running oil-pressure dropped to 50lbs. I had no interest in finding out my idle pressure ;^). I was glad to get out to the coastal plain. Brian Jones Valley Forge, PA Truimph TR4, 1962, CT1455L (now with o/d) On Wed, Sep 30, 2009 at 8:16 PM, Wayne wrote: > I just my TR6 on the rroad after an engine rebuild and I am getting the > same results. > 90 #s at highway speeds, 40 at idle. > I have only been running the car for a week and I am still running break-in > oil > 30 wt non-detergent with a pint of Lucas oil additive (zinc/moly). > My odometer is not working, but I think I have about 200 miles on the new > engine. > > Wayne > 73 TR6 > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary Nafziger" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2009 10:24 PM > Subject: [TR] oil pressure > > > > just a quickie.......my oil pressure has been amazing since engine rebuild >> (tr-6) ........cold start 70+.......then 40 at hot idle. >> >> suddenly now its >> 50 cold start and 40 running warmed up ..........at idle around 20. >> >> I've >> taken off the line to guage and blown it out, hooked up another older >> guage I >> had on hand and tested it with same results. also checked the spring in >> pressure valve ect. the spring is one millimeter shorter than suggested >> length but I'm thinmking thats not significant. ?? I have around 1,000 >> miles on the rebuild......already changed oil at 300 miles. Will do >> another >> oil/filter change soon. >> >> I'm not seriously worried about this and plan on >> running as is. But just curious why and wondering if anyone else has had >> similar results. >> >> gary n. >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> This list supported in part by the Vintage Triumph Register >> http://www.vtr.org >> >> >> Triumphs at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs >> >> >> http://www.team.net/archive >> > _______________________________________________ > > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > This list supported in part by the Vintage Triumph Register > http://www.vtr.org > > > Triumphs at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs > > > http://www.team.net/archive From tony at tonydrews.com Wed Sep 30 22:18:24 2009 From: tony at tonydrews.com (Tony Drews) Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 23:18:24 -0500 Subject: [TR] Dieseling and pinging In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20091001041839.8AACC187654@autox.team.net> I'm not going to go into how to actually SET the ignition timing, but having too much advance in the timing will certainly cause the pinging and dieseling and will eventually melt important things inside the engine. Higher octane fuel will allow a bit more advance to be used, and will then also produce a bit more power. The carburetion also plays a part in this. Both should be set "properly" to make it run right. I'm sure others will chime in with what the "proper" settings would be. - Tony Drews At 08:45 PM 9/30/2009, Wayne wrote: >I just got the TR6 on the road after an engine rebuild. >The head was shaved to raise the compression and I know this may cause >pinging. >Engine was started with high octane fuel and ran fine, but after a few days, I >filled up with >regular fuel and I am getting pinging when accelerating. >My question is do I have to run high octane fuel or fuel additives or can I >adjust the ZS carbs? >The engine also keeps running after I turn it off, I think this is called >dieseling. >What causes this? Will carb air/fuel adjustment fix it? >I also tried to check the timing with a timing light, but what I found didn'y >make sense to me. >I set the static timing before the initial start-up @ 12 BTDC and the engine >started right up :). >After driving the car, I thought the acceleration was underpowered, so I tried >timing the engine >with a timing light, with engine @ idle 800 RPM, and the vacuum advance still >attached, >I was no where near 4 ATDC. And when I tried to rotate the distributor to >advance the timing >to 4 ATDC, the engine would run rough. I ended up rotating the distributor the >opposite way >and ended up at around 10 BTDC.???? I went by sound not by what the light >showed me. >Does this make sence? I also removed the vacuum tube from the advance on the >distributor >and it did not make any difference to the idle? Should I be concerned that my >vacuum advance is not >working? > >Any info on this will be apprieciated. > >Wayne >73 TR6 >_______________________________________________ > >Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > >This list supported in part by the Vintage Triumph Register >http://www.vtr.org > > >Triumphs at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs > > >http://www.team.net/archive