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    Here's some interesting information to consider about nylon and
    nyloc nuts:<br>
    <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://nycoa.com/recent-news/2020/moistureinnylon">https://nycoa.com/recent-news/2020/moistureinnylon</a><br>
    <br>
    <br>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 3/10/25 12:15 PM, Ron Fraser via
      Tigers wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:001601db91f0$d3f10c10$7bd32430$@bluefrog.com">
      
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        <p class="MsoNormal">Jay<o:p></o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal">I’m not familiar enough with the history of
          your Tiger so it comes down to how do you feel about the
          Nylocks.<o:p></o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal">I’m assuming they have been on for some
          time, have not moved and are probably very safe.<o:p></o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal">I would check them, mark them, then
          regularly inspect the witness marks for any movement, then
          decide. <o:p></o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal">Ron Fraser<o:p></o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Jay Laifman
          <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:jay.laifman@gmail.com"><jay.laifman@gmail.com></a> <br>
          <b>Sent:</b> Monday, March 10, 2025 2:42 PM<br>
          <b>To:</b> Ron Fraser <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:rfraser@bluefrog.com"><rfraser@bluefrog.com></a><br>
          <b>Cc:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:modtiger@comcast.net">modtiger@comcast.net</a>; <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:tigers@autox.team.net">tigers@autox.team.net</a><br>
          <b>Subject:</b> Re: [Tigers] Check Your Nuts<o:p></o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal">Thoughts on pulling off nylocks and
            putting on two nuts to jam tight?<o:p></o:p></p>
        </div>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
        <div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal">On Mon, Mar 10, 2025 at 11:37 AM Ron
              Fraser <<a href="mailto:rfraser@bluefrog.com" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">rfraser@bluefrog.com</a>>
              wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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                  <p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Jay<o:p></o:p></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">As the saying
                    goes “Stuff Happens”.<o:p></o:p></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Nylock nuts
                    are generally fine.   I would say anyone with Nylock
                    nuts should put a witness mark on them as an easy
                    visual safety check.   Seems to me I have some
                    Nylocks on the front suspension; I will check them
                    and put a witness mark on them.<o:p></o:p></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">As with any
                    product some are junk.   I remember installing a
                    Nylock nut and as I tightened it down the nylon
                    insert popped out.   I threw those Nylocks away.<o:p></o:p></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Your
                    situation is most likely OK.   I would check the
                    torque on the nuts and put a witness mark on them.<o:p></o:p></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">I think the
                    problem we have with why the nut came off is because
                    we generally think in terms of static conditions.  
                    Vehicles are on the move, vibrations can facilitate
                    a nut or bolt to turn.   I’m sure there are other
                    dynamic forces working here too but they are beyond
                    my grade level.<o:p></o:p></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Ron Fraser<o:p></o:p></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
                  <div>
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                      <p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b>From:</b>
                        Tigers <<a href="mailto:tigers-bounces@autox.team.net" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">tigers-bounces@autox.team.net</a>>
                        <b>On Behalf Of </b>Jay Laifman<br>
                        <b>Sent:</b> Monday, March 10, 2025 1:45 AM<br>
                        <b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:modtiger@comcast.net" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">modtiger@comcast.net</a><br>
                        <b>Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:tigers@autox.team.net" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">tigers@autox.team.net</a><br>
                        <b>Subject:</b> Re: [Tigers] Check Your Nuts<o:p></o:p></p>
                    </div>
                  </div>
                  <div>
                    <p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">I remember a
                      light blue Mazda Alpine.  What ever happened to
                      it?  <o:p></o:p></p>
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                    <p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
                  </div>
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                    <p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">I am not sure
                      I understand how friction in the ball causes the
                      taper to come lose.  But regardless, I think it is
                      pretty likely my lower ball joints were sourced
                      from Rick about 1994, and it is nyloc only.  Are
                      you suggesting they are all an accident away?  <o:p></o:p></p>
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                    <p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
                    <blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
                      <p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt">On Mar 9, 2025, at
                        7:43 PM, Tom Hall via Tigers <<a href="mailto:tigers@autox.team.net" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">tigers@autox.team.net</a>>
                        wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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                      <p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
                      <p>It's hard to believe that this is still
                        happening.  It started when Rick at Sunbeam
                        Specialties changed suppliers way back in the
                        mid-eighties.  The OEM suppliers had always used
                        castle nuts and cotter keys, but this new
                        supplier went with the Nylock nut design. which
                        Rick initially accepted.  My daughter had this
                        "accident" happen in her Rotary powered Alpine,
                        back in the 80's, a couple of blocks from home,
                        exactly as you were, having the lower A-arm fall
                        on the ground, and again luckily at low speed.<o:p></o:p></p>
                      <p>Rick arranged a meeting with reps for this
                        supplier shortly after it happened.  Rick and I
                        sat down with them and they insisted this this
                        had never happened before and it must have been
                        <u>My fault</u>.  Rick and I talked at length
                        and they told us that they were not going to
                        modify their product. Rick however changed his
                        receiveal methods so that the Nylok nut was
                        tossed and a castle nut and drilled hole were
                        installed in his lower ball joint stock from
                        that time until the current time.  This supplier
                        made an acceptable ball joint but they also
                        deleted the copper plating of the genuine OEM
                        supplier.  What happened is that during storage
                        after manufacturing, moisture got into the joint
                        and started the rust process.  With only the
                        Nylock nut, it was only a matter of time before
                        the friction in the joint started to turn the
                        Nylock nut and unscrew it from the taper cone. <o:p></o:p></p>
                      <p>Conversely, the upper ball joints have also had
                        this Nylock nut but I've never heard of anyone
                        loosing one to this friction un-screw
                        mechanism.  Different loading's, different
                        results.<o:p></o:p></p>
                      <p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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                                            <p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">On Sat, Mar
                                              8, 2025 at 2:19 PM Joe
                                              Brown <<a href="mailto:jbbrown1980@gmail.com" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">jbbrown1980@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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                                              <p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">So,  I took
                                                my Tiger out yesterday
                                                for a short drive and as
                                                I was just about home
                                                (maybe a hundred yards
                                                from my driveway) the
                                                right front
                                                suspension dropped to
                                                the ground and I skidded
                                                several yards before
                                                stopping.  All I could
                                                think of was the old
                                                stories about exploding
                                                ball joints. <o:p></o:p></p>
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                                                <p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
                                              </div>
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                                                <p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">I walked to
                                                  my house and threw a
                                                  floor jack and some
                                                  jack stands in my
                                                  truck and drove back
                                                  to the Tiger.  I
                                                  managed to get the
                                                  front end jacked up
                                                  and discovered that
                                                  the nut on the lower
                                                  ball joint was gone
                                                  and the lower A arm
                                                  had dropped to the
                                                  road.  My suspension
                                                  pieces are at least 30
                                                  years old and the ball
                                                  joints were held on
                                                  with nylock nuts. I
                                                  managed to wrap a
                                                  ratchet strap around
                                                  the upper and lower A
                                                  arms and I was able to
                                                  slowly drive the car
                                                  into my garage. <o:p></o:p></p>
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                                                <p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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                                                <p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">I am very
                                                  lucky that: <o:p></o:p></p>
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                                                <p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">1. I was
                                                  going pretty slow at
                                                  the time<o:p></o:p></p>
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                                              <div>
                                                <p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">2. The front
                                                  end landed in some
                                                  loose gravel on the
                                                  side of the road<o:p></o:p></p>
                                              </div>
                                              <div>
                                                <p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">3. None of
                                                  the body work was
                                                  damaged<o:p></o:p></p>
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                                                <p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">4.  And
                                                  nothing else in the
                                                  suspension looks to be
                                                  damaged; just scraped
                                                  up<o:p></o:p></p>
                                              </div>
                                              <div>
                                                <p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
                                              </div>
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                                                <p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">If this had
                                                  happened 5 minutes
                                                  earlier I would have
                                                  been doing 60 on a
                                                  winding road and I
                                                  would have wound up in
                                                  a ditch.<o:p></o:p></p>
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                                                <p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
                                              </div>
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                                                <p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">So I'm
                                                  ordering a new set of
                                                  ball joints and I will
                                                  drill them out for
                                                  castle nuts so I don't
                                                  have to worry about a
                                                  nut working its way
                                                  loose again.  <o:p></o:p></p>
                                              </div>
                                              <div>
                                                <p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
                                              </div>
                                              <div>
                                                <p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Regards,<o:p></o:p></p>
                                              </div>
                                              <div>
                                                <p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Joe Brown<o:p></o:p></p>
                                              </div>
                                              <div>
                                                <p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
                                              </div>
                                              <div>
                                                <p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
                                              </div>
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                        <pre>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre>
                        <pre> <o:p></o:p></pre>
                        <pre><a href="mailto:tigers@autox.team.net" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">tigers@autox.team.net</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
                        <pre> <o:p></o:p></pre>
                        <pre>Donate: <a href="http://www.team.net/donate.html" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
                        <pre>Archive: <a href="http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers</a> <a href="http://autox.team.net/archive" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">http://autox.team.net/archive</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
                        <pre> <o:p></o:p></pre>
                        <pre>Unsubscribe: <a href="http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/modtiger@comcast.net" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/modtiger@comcast.net</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
                        <pre> <o:p></o:p></pre>
                        <pre> <o:p></o:p></pre>
                      </blockquote>
                      <p> <o:p></o:p></p>
                      <pre>-- <o:p></o:p></pre>
                      <pre>Tom Hall<o:p></o:p></pre>
                      <pre>ModTiger Engineering LLC<o:p></o:p></pre>
                      <pre>5712 San Luis Court<o:p></o:p></pre>
                      <pre>Pleasanton, CA 94566<o:p></o:p></pre>
                      <pre>(925)462-3876<o:p></o:p></pre>
                      <pre><a href="mailto:modtiger@comcast.net" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">modtiger@comcast.net</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
                      <pre><a href="http://tigerengineering.net/" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">http://tigerengineering.net/</a> <o:p></o:p></pre>
                      <p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt">_______________________________________________<br>
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      <pre wrap="" class="moz-quote-pre">_______________________________________________

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