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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal>Jay<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>I’m not familiar enough with the history of your Tiger so it comes down to how do you feel about the Nylocks.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>I’m assuming they have been on for some time, have not moved and are probably very safe.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>I would check them, mark them, then regularly inspect the witness marks for any movement, then decide. <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Ron Fraser<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><b>From:</b> Jay Laifman <jay.laifman@gmail.com> <br><b>Sent:</b> Monday, March 10, 2025 2:42 PM<br><b>To:</b> Ron Fraser <rfraser@bluefrog.com><br><b>Cc:</b> modtiger@comcast.net; tigers@autox.team.net<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Tigers] Check Your Nuts<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>Thoughts on pulling off nylocks and putting on two nuts to jam tight?<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Mon, Mar 10, 2025 at 11:37 AM Ron Fraser <<a href="mailto:rfraser@bluefrog.com">rfraser@bluefrog.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in'><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Jay<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>As the saying goes “Stuff Happens”.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Nylock nuts are generally fine. I would say anyone with Nylock nuts should put a witness mark on them as an easy visual safety check. Seems to me I have some Nylocks on the front suspension; I will check them and put a witness mark on them.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>As with any product some are junk. I remember installing a Nylock nut and as I tightened it down the nylon insert popped out. I threw those Nylocks away.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Your situation is most likely OK. I would check the torque on the nuts and put a witness mark on them.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>I think the problem we have with why the nut came off is because we generally think in terms of static conditions. Vehicles are on the move, vibrations can facilitate a nut or bolt to turn. I’m sure there are other dynamic forces working here too but they are beyond my grade level.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Ron Fraser<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in;border-color:currentcolor currentcolor'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b>From:</b> Tigers <<a href="mailto:tigers-bounces@autox.team.net" target="_blank">tigers-bounces@autox.team.net</a>> <b>On Behalf Of </b>Jay Laifman<br><b>Sent:</b> Monday, March 10, 2025 1:45 AM<br><b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:modtiger@comcast.net" target="_blank">modtiger@comcast.net</a><br><b>Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:tigers@autox.team.net" target="_blank">tigers@autox.team.net</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Tigers] Check Your Nuts<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>I remember a light blue Mazda Alpine. What ever happened to it? <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>I am not sure I understand how friction in the ball causes the taper to come lose. But regardless, I think it is pretty likely my lower ball joints were sourced from Rick about 1994, and it is nyloc only. Are you suggesting they are all an accident away? <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></p><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'>On Mar 9, 2025, at 7:43 PM, Tom Hall via Tigers <<a href="mailto:tigers@autox.team.net" target="_blank">tigers@autox.team.net</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><p>It's hard to believe that this is still happening. It started when Rick at Sunbeam Specialties changed suppliers way back in the mid-eighties. The OEM suppliers had always used castle nuts and cotter keys, but this new supplier went with the Nylock nut design. which Rick initially accepted. My daughter had this "accident" happen in her Rotary powered Alpine, back in the 80's, a couple of blocks from home, exactly as you were, having the lower A-arm fall on the ground, and again luckily at low speed.<o:p></o:p></p><p>Rick arranged a meeting with reps for this supplier shortly after it happened. Rick and I sat down with them and they insisted this this had never happened before and it must have been <u>My fault</u>. Rick and I talked at length and they told us that they were not going to modify their product. Rick however changed his receiveal methods so that the Nylok nut was tossed and a castle nut and drilled hole were installed in his lower ball joint stock from that time until the current time. This supplier made an acceptable ball joint but they also deleted the copper plating of the genuine OEM supplier. What happened is that during storage after manufacturing, moisture got into the joint and started the rust process. With only the Nylock nut, it was only a matter of time before the friction in the joint started to turn the Nylock nut and unscrew it from the taper cone. <o:p></o:p></p><p>Conversely, the upper ball joints have also had this Nylock nut but I've never heard of anyone loosing one to this friction un-screw mechanism. Different loading's, different results.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></p><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt;border-color:currentcolor currentcolor currentcolor rgb(204,204,204)'><div><div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt;border-color:currentcolor currentcolor currentcolor rgb(204,204,204)'><div><div><div><div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>On Sat, Mar 8, 2025 at 2:19 PM Joe Brown <<a href="mailto:jbbrown1980@gmail.com" target="_blank">jbbrown1980@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt;border-color:currentcolor currentcolor currentcolor rgb(204,204,204)'><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>So, I took my Tiger out yesterday for a short drive and as I was just about home (maybe a hundred yards from my driveway) the right front suspension dropped to the ground and I skidded several yards before stopping. All I could think of was the old stories about exploding ball joints. <o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>I walked to my house and threw a floor jack and some jack stands in my truck and drove back to the Tiger. I managed to get the front end jacked up and discovered that the nut on the lower ball joint was gone and the lower A arm had dropped to the road. My suspension pieces are at least 30 years old and the ball joints were held on with nylock nuts. I managed to wrap a ratchet strap around the upper and lower A arms and I was able to slowly drive the car into my garage. <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>I am very lucky that: <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>1. I was going pretty slow at the time<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>2. The front end landed in some loose gravel on the side of the road<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>3. None of the body work was damaged<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>4. And nothing else in the suspension looks to be damaged; just scraped up<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>If this had happened 5 minutes earlier I would have been doing 60 on a winding road and I would have wound up in a ditch.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>So I'm ordering a new set of ball joints and I will drill them out for castle nuts so I don't have to worry about a nut working its way loose again. <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Regards,<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Joe Brown<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'>_______________________________________________<br><br><a href="mailto:tigers@autox.team.net" target="_blank">tigers@autox.team.net</a><br><br>Donate: <a href="http://www.team.net/donate.html" target="_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>Archive: <a href="http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers" target="_blank">http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers</a> <a href="http://autox.team.net/archive" target="_blank">http://autox.team.net/archive</a><br><br>Unsubscribe: <a 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target="_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>Archive: <a href="http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers" target="_blank">http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers</a> <a href="http://autox.team.net/archive" target="_blank">http://autox.team.net/archive</a><br><br>Unsubscribe: <a href="http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/christopherson2023@gmail.com" target="_blank">http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/christopherson2023@gmail.com</a><br><br><o:p></o:p></p></div></blockquote></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></p><pre>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a href="mailto:tigers@autox.team.net" target="_blank">tigers@autox.team.net</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Donate: <a href="http://www.team.net/donate.html" target="_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Archive: <a href="http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers" target="_blank">http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers</a> <a href="http://autox.team.net/archive" target="_blank">http://autox.team.net/archive</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Unsubscribe: <a href="http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/modtiger@comcast.net" target="_blank">http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/modtiger@comcast.net</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre></blockquote><p> <o:p></o:p></p><pre>-- <o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Tom Hall<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>ModTiger Engineering LLC<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>5712 San Luis Court<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Pleasanton, CA 94566<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>(925)462-3876<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a href="mailto:modtiger@comcast.net" target="_blank">modtiger@comcast.net</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a href="http://tigerengineering.net/" target="_blank">http://tigerengineering.net/</a> <o:p></o:p></pre><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'>_______________________________________________<br><br><a href="mailto:tigers@autox.team.net" target="_blank">tigers@autox.team.net</a><br><br>Donate: <a href="http://www.team.net/donate.html" target="_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>Archive: <a href="http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers" target="_blank">http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers</a> <a href="http://autox.team.net/archive" target="_blank">http://autox.team.net/archive</a><br><br>Unsubscribe: <a href="http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/jay.laifman@gmail.com" target="_blank">http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/jay.laifman@gmail.com</a><o:p></o:p></p></div></blockquote></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></body></html>