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<DIV>No, I’m using the stock Tiger rack, bent arms and all. I just did the rack
(cut) modification because of the previous ‘weld –on’ repair. Otherwise I
would not have done the modification and left it stock. The arms as
mentioned are MGB. I have a Midget rack, but unfortunately I got the newer
rack which has the smaller diameter rods, not the larger rods of the older rack.
Now that my son is a machinist I might venture back to considering it. It seems
the method I intended allowed the rack to sit back a bit deeper in the
crossmember (which is desirable). The basic plan was to use two midget clamps
(per side – front/back) and a short spacer on the back side clamp as needed for
clearance off the crossmember. This would replace the split aluminum block
concept that came with the kits. This discussion came up a number of years
ago and I sent someone a quick mock up (no spacers). Sorry the images are small,
but hopefully you can enlarge them in a viewer.</DIV>
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<DIV
style='FONT-SIZE: small; TEXT-DECORATION: none; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri"; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; COLOR: #000000; FONT-STYLE: normal; DISPLAY: inline'><B>From:</B>
<A title=tkparker1941@gmail.com href="mailto:tkparker1941@gmail.com">Tom
Parker</A> </DIV>
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<DIV style="BACKGROUND: #f5f5f5">
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, May 21, 2015 10:28 AM</DIV>
<DIV><B>To:</B> <A title=atwittsend@verizon.net
href="mailto:atwittsend@verizon.net">Tom Witt</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Tigers] Backing up other cars</DIV></DIV></DIV>
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<DIV dir=ltr>Tom, Are you using the MG Midget rack?
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Tom</DIV>
<DIV>'67 Mark 2</DIV></DIV>
<DIV class=gmail_extra>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV class=gmail_quote>On Thu, May 21, 2015 at 12:39 PM, Tom Witt via Tigers
<SPAN dir=ltr><<A href="mailto:tigers@autox.team.net"
target=_blank>tigers@autox.team.net</A>></SPAN> wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=gmail_quote
style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid">
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<DIV>I have the MGB arms on my Tiger. They require about a 1/2” spacer
on the front bolt to fill in a gap between the arm and the spindle. The two
bolt holes do not align perfectly. You need to file or mill out one of the
holes a small amount as I believe the spacing is too large on the MGB arm. If
you are searching for every bit of help you can get, my recollection is that
the front hole is filed towards the rear and that positions the arm about a
1/16”-1/8” more forward, rather than 1/16”-1/8” more rearward if you file the
rear hole. I did this over 10 years ago so check by observation for
which hole to file, but the goal is to get the arm as far forward as possible.
The backing plate/shield needs a notch about 1” high and about 1/2” deep as
the arm positions in its path and you need the room for the tie rod end.
For the record I have 13” Cosmic wheels (like those on the Harrington Tiger)
and they clear this modification though I believe I have about a 1/4” spacer
under the wheel. Sorry for the vagueness but my car has been on jack stands
for 15 years now and is currently buried in wood for my daughters Tiny
House.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Regarding rack modification; my rack apparently had one of the ends
damaged at some time in its life. Someone did a hack repair by simply welding
on an Alpine section. A very dubious repair. Some here were horrified
when I shortened both rack ends and then cut threads with a die (left and
right threads) as the original threads are rolled. The die was somewhat
adjustable and I made light cuts after the initial cut. I constantly back cut
after a few degrees of rotation of the die. I then lightly chased the threads
with a fine file and did everything I could to remove burrs, tears, etc.. I
did the threads likewise with a grade 8 bolt which attached to the tie rod
end. To couple the two together I used the split tube and clamp that just
about every American car had before struts became popular. They needed to be
as short as possible and 70’s era AMC tubes (Hornet I recall) were used.
Both the adjustable die and the split tube/clamps were helpful because the
diameter of the rack is not consistent. It allows for the incremental
adjustment people desire and frankly I feel a whole lot more comfortable with
this than a welded on Alpine piece. That said, it would be something
that one does at their own risk. I don’t advise cutting up a stock rack,
but in my case it seemed irrelevant.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Notes on the images: I do not have the clamps on the split tube at
this time, for the record I plan on having two clamps per side. Parts for the
modification. Buried Tiger (will it EVER see the road in y lifetime???).</DIV>
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<DIV><B>From:</B> <A title=tigers@autox.team.net
href="mailto:tigers@autox.team.net" target=_blank>Gary via Tigers</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, May 20, 2015 7:08 PM</DIV>
<DIV><B>To:</B> <A title=tkparker1941@gmail.com
href="mailto:tkparker1941@gmail.com" target=_blank>Tom Parker</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Cc:</B> <A title=tigers@autox.team.net
href="mailto:tigers@autox.team.net" target=_blank>Tiger's Den</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Tigers] Backing up other cars</DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV></DIV>
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<DIV>Thanks Tom, but I knew all that..</DIV>
<DIV>What I was wondering was what tie rod ends</DIV>
<DIV>or machining on the steering arms did you</DIV>
<DIV>have to do? The Alpine arms are slightly</DIV>
<DIV>longer than the MGB arms and should help</DIV>
<DIV>even more, that was part of Doane's race</DIV>
<DIV>mods IIRC. I haven' t heard of anyone else</DIV>
<DIV>using the stock rack like you. Did you have</DIV>
<DIV>to "unbend" the rack arms and did you make</DIV>
<DIV>sure you didn't run out of rack ball joint</DIV>
<DIV>travel? You should be able to do your own</DIV>
<DIV>precision alignment using the "strings"</DIV>
<DIV>method, I do.</DIV>
<DIV>Gary</DIV>
<DIV><BR><BR>Sent from my iPhone</DIV>
<DIV><BR>On May 20, 2015, at 6:31 PM, Tom Parker <<A
href="mailto:tkparker1941@gmail.com"
target=_blank>tkparker1941@gmail.com</A>> wrote:<BR><BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr>Hi Gary, and Buck,
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>First, Buck's right, and I think I implied that. The MGB arms DO NOT
fix the Ackerman Angle issue in the Tiger. "The best we can hope for is a
steering angle of about zero degrees with the stock
crossmember." The issue is the MGA rack George fitted to the Alpine
crossmember is way too far forward, and it isn't possible to get close to a
proper Ackerman Angle. It isn't, imho, a problem with the rack, it's with
the mounting position. For about $10,000 Dale can "fix" the problem by
constructing a new crossmember with the rack in a straight line with the
steering arms. Is it that simple? No, and I won't begin to try to understand
the math involved. See DrMayf's article.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>What the arms do is what we both said earlier: the make the steering a
bit easier, and they reduce the tire scrub a bit. That's all. The MGB
arms are about an inch longer than the stock Tiger arms. It's about as far
as you can go, and it requires 15" or larger wheels.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>There are a few "solutions to the problem. I know the redesigned
crossmember works, and I'be seen Alpine spindles reversed (swapped side to
side) with Alpine steering arms to the front, but I don't know how close it
comes to solving anything. And I don't know if that "fix" works with the
Tiger rack.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Now to the MGB steering arms: Randy Willett (<A
href="mailto:willett581@msn.com" target=_blank>willett581@msn.com</A>) did
the modification. It involved elongating the center mounting hole a bit and
adding a spacer to align the arm "parallel" (more or less) to the spindle. I
torqued it down to Tiger specs, Randy argued for a bit more torque. He
supplied grade 8 bolts. There's maybe an inch of thread left at the tie rod
ends, and less than an inch clearance to the inside of the wheel. I'm not
going to race the car, street or otherwise. The MGB "solution" helps, and
that's all I was looking for. I knew up front it wasn't a "fix."</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>So... a bit easier (lighter) steering, not as much scrub. With @ 0" toe
the steering is quite sensitive. I used a Toe Alignment Bar; it's close to
zero toe. How close? I dunno; that takes an alignment rack and the local
guys aren't interested in aligning a car without alignment turnbuckles for
less than @ $350.00. That'll keep 'till I get the Kitty back to
Georgia.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Tom</DIV>
<DIV>'67 Mark 2</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV></DIV>
<DIV class=gmail_extra>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV class=gmail_quote>On Wed, May 20, 2015 at 6:41 PM, Gary <SPAN
dir=ltr><<A href="mailto:garywinblad@comcast.net"
target=_blank>garywinblad@comcast.net</A>></SPAN> wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=gmail_quote
style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid">
<DIV>
<DIV>Tom,</DIV>
<DIV>Interesting... I bought some MGB arms a</DIV>
<DIV>long time ago. How did you connect them?</DIV>
<DIV>Gary<BR><BR>Sent from my iPhone</DIV>
<DIV><BR>On May 19, 2015, at 7:22 AM, Tom Parker via Tigers <<A
href="mailto:tigers@autox.team.net"
target=_blank>tigers@autox.team.net</A>> wrote:<BR><BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr>MGB steering arms with the stock Tiger rack (since Dale no
longer makes the Midget rack kit...) solves a lot of the wheel scrub
issues when backing up. The steering's lighter, too, by just a bit.
DrMayf wrote (imho) the definitive analysis on Ackerman v Tigers issue.
The best we can hope for is a steering angle of about zero degrees
with the stock crossmember.
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Tom</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>'67 Mark 2</DIV></DIV>
<DIV class=gmail_extra>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV class=gmail_quote>On Mon, May 18, 2015 at 10:21 PM, Jay Laifman via
Tigers <SPAN dir=ltr><<A href="mailto:tigers@autox.team.net"
target=_blank>tigers@autox.team.net</A>></SPAN> wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=gmail_quote
style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid">
<DIV dir=ltr>Every time I back up a non-Tiger, my predispostion to not
going full lock on the Tiger seems to always come through and prevents
me from doing it with the non-Tiger too. I get a chuckle out of
it each time - but I still can't bring myself to do it!
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Just thought I'd share that thought.</DIV><SPAN><FONT
color=#888888>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Jay</DIV></FONT></SPAN></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></BODY></HTML>