From bruisertx at gmail.com Sat Sep 2 10:58:11 2023 From: bruisertx at gmail.com (Bruce Richards) Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2023 11:58:11 -0500 Subject: [Tigers] Le Mans, Shelby & 2 Smokin' Tigers Kickstarter Message-ID: Sorry if this is repeated, I had to resubscribe and didn't know if the original went out. I have pledged 500 Pounds to Kickstarter. I believe with help of the list and other resources the $ can be raised. Glad to be back on the list. Thx, Bruce I seem to have dropped off of the mailing list, so I'm hoping this can be reposted. I would like to see this get completed and plan to pledge to the project. Le Mans, Shelby & 2 Smokin' Tigers by Berlinetta Films ? Kickstarter Thanks, Bruce B9470147 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sosnaenergyconsulting at gmail.com Sat Sep 2 18:15:17 2023 From: sosnaenergyconsulting at gmail.com (David Sosna) Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2023 17:15:17 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Le Mans, Shelby & 2 Smokin' Tigers Kickstarter In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <49f82ccf-237d-1def-5a53-e64cc0553f6f@gmail.com> Thanks for the link, Bruce.? Interesting timing.? This morning I was rereading a 2007 article about the Toyota Celica Supra: "To the untrained eye the first Supra looked like a Celica--*/and nothing kills status faster than resembling a downmarket model/*". Three years later, Toyota changed the sheetmetal for the next generation Supra to differentiate it from the Celica.? I thought of the visual similarities between the Tiger and the Alpine;? That was also mentioned in the clip you found.? I guess that lack of differentiation was a problem for Rootes.? Not sure why it worked for AC though, since the first Cobras looked like the Ace.? If anybody wants to weigh-in on why it worked for AC, I'd appreciate your thoughts. Best Regards David Sosna On 9/2/23 09:58, Bruce Richards wrote: > Sorry if this is repeated, I had to resubscribe and didn't know if the > original went out.? I have pledged 500 Pounds to Kickstarter.? I > believe with help of the list and other resources the $ can be > raised.? Glad to be back on the list. > > Thx, Bruce > > > > I seem to have dropped off of the mailing list, so I'm hoping this can > be reposted.? I would like to see this get completed and plan to > pledge to the project. > > > > Le Mans, Shelby & 2 Smokin' Tigers by Berlinetta Films ? Kickstarter > > > > Thanks, > > Bruce > B9470147 > > _______________________________________________ > > tigers at autox.team.net > > Donate:http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive:http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe:http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/sosnaenergyconsulting at cox.net > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From michael.s.king at gmail.com Sat Sep 2 19:30:33 2023 From: michael.s.king at gmail.com (michael king) Date: Sun, 3 Sep 2023 09:30:33 +0800 Subject: [Tigers] Le Mans, Shelby & 2 Smokin' Tigers Kickstarter In-Reply-To: <49f82ccf-237d-1def-5a53-e64cc0553f6f@gmail.com> References: <49f82ccf-237d-1def-5a53-e64cc0553f6f@gmail.com> Message-ID: There were some changes on the AC for the Cobra that did "toughen" it up a little like the vents and the fender flares and wider wheels....but I think the biggest difference is the AC ace was a desirable boutique low volume high end sports car with decent performance. The Cobra turned it into a boutique low volume high end performance car... You didn't see Ace's running around everywhere.. an Ace was a special car .. so it's not like you had a cooking model that suddenly was a wolf in sheep's clothing. Just my 0.02c On Sun, 3 Sept 2023, 8:35 am David Sosna, wrote: > Thanks for the link, Bruce. Interesting timing. This morning I was > rereading a 2007 article about the Toyota Celica Supra: "To the untrained > eye the first Supra looked like a Celica--*and nothing kills status > faster than resembling a downmarket model*". Three years later, Toyota > changed the sheetmetal for the next generation Supra to differentiate it > from the Celica. I thought of the visual similarities between the Tiger > and the Alpine; That was also mentioned in the clip you found. I guess > that lack of differentiation was a problem for Rootes. Not sure why it > worked for AC though, since the first Cobras looked like the Ace. If > anybody wants to weigh-in on why it worked for AC, I'd appreciate your > thoughts. > > Best Regards > > David Sosna > > > > > On 9/2/23 09:58, Bruce Richards wrote: > > Sorry if this is repeated, I had to resubscribe and didn't know if the > original went out. I have pledged 500 Pounds to Kickstarter. I believe > with help of the list and other resources the $ can be raised. Glad to be > back on the list. > > Thx, Bruce > > > > I seem to have dropped off of the mailing list, so I'm hoping this can be > reposted. I would like to see this get completed and plan to pledge to the > project. > > > > Le Mans, Shelby & 2 Smokin' Tigers by Berlinetta Films ? Kickstarter > > > > Thanks, > > Bruce > B9470147 > > _______________________________________________ > tigers at autox.team.net > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/sosnaenergyconsulting at cox.net > > _______________________________________________ > > tigers at autox.team.net > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers > http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/michael.s.king at gmail.com > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sosnaenergyconsulting at gmail.com Sat Sep 2 20:17:29 2023 From: sosnaenergyconsulting at gmail.com (David Sosna) Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2023 19:17:29 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Le Mans, Shelby & 2 Smokin' Tigers Kickstarter In-Reply-To: References: <49f82ccf-237d-1def-5a53-e64cc0553f6f@gmail.com> Message-ID: <3368e51b-254a-a456-14ec-a8cfae30f2b7@gmail.com> Michael: Makes sense--I hadn't thought of it that way.? Glad I asked. ? Thanks! Best Regards David On 9/2/23 18:30, michael king wrote: > There were some changes on the AC for the Cobra that did "toughen" it > up a little like the vents and the fender flares and wider > wheels....but I think the biggest difference is the AC ace was a > desirable boutique low volume high end sports car with decent > performance. > > The Cobra turned it into a boutique low volume high end performance > car... You didn't see Ace's running around everywhere.. an Ace was a > special car .. so it's not like you had a cooking model that suddenly > was a wolf in sheep's clothing. > > Just my 0.02c > > On Sun, 3 Sept 2023, 8:35 am David Sosna, > wrote: > > Thanks for the link, Bruce.? Interesting timing.? This morning I > was rereading a 2007 article about the Toyota Celica Supra: "To > the untrained eye the first Supra looked like a Celica--*/and > nothing kills status faster than resembling a downmarket > model/*".? Three years later, Toyota changed the sheetmetal for > the next generation Supra to differentiate it from the Celica.? I > thought of the visual similarities between the Tiger and the > Alpine;? That was also mentioned in the clip you found.? I guess > that lack of differentiation was a problem for Rootes.? Not sure > why it worked for AC though, since the first Cobras looked like > the Ace.? If anybody wants to weigh-in on why it worked for AC, > I'd appreciate your thoughts. > > Best Regards > > David Sosna > > > > > On 9/2/23 09:58, Bruce Richards wrote: >> Sorry if this is repeated, I had to resubscribe and didn't know >> if the original went out. I have pledged 500 Pounds to >> Kickstarter.? I believe with help of the list and other resources >> the $ can be raised.? Glad to be back on the list. >> >> Thx, Bruce >> >> >> >> I seem to have dropped off of the mailing list, so I'm hoping >> this can be reposted.? I would like to see this get completed and >> plan to pledge to the project. >> >> >> >> Le Mans, Shelby & 2 Smokin' Tigers by Berlinetta Films ? >> Kickstarter >> >> >> >> Thanks, >> >> Bruce >> B9470147 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> tigers at autox.team.net >> >> Donate:http://www.team.net/donate.html >> Archive:http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive >> >> Unsubscribe:http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/sosnaenergyconsulting at cox.net >> >> > _______________________________________________ > > tigers at autox.team.net > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers > http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/michael.s.king at gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > > tigers at autox.team.net > > Donate:http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive:http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe:http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/sosnaenergyconsulting at cox.net > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mark44124 at gmail.com Sun Sep 3 11:07:09 2023 From: mark44124 at gmail.com (Mark Rense) Date: Sun, 3 Sep 2023 13:07:09 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Le Mans, Shelby & 2 Smokin' Tigers Kickstarter In-Reply-To: References: <49f82ccf-237d-1def-5a53-e64cc0553f6f@gmail.com> Message-ID: So the approximate AC Ace total production was 689 over ten years. How many folks, especially in the US, had ever seen one by the time the Cobra debuted? The Alpine Series I-III totals were over 37,700 by the start of 1964, and the Series IV was well into production before the Tiger debuted at New York in April of ?64. Many sports car enthusiasts new of the Alpine but the Tiger looked so much like the Alpine that it was difficult to tell them apart at a glance. But did the Tiger really suffer from lack of product differentiation from the Alpine? Virtually every car model built then had a large range of performance options . The Mustang could be had with a drum brake 170 ci six and three speed up to the K-code 289 at the time, and the Corvette had several small and big block choices, same for every sedan. I think the Tiger was more a victim of poor development, a stodgy and failing parent company, the Chrysler takeover and ensuing dealer confusion, and finally increasing regulations requiring serious investments that the new owners wouldn?t make. I?m sure we have all thought about what a Tiger could have evolved into going into the ?70?s if Chrysler had made a commitment but it?s just a fantasy. At least we now know how to keep ours updated and running better than when new. Bugz On Sat, Sep 2, 2023 at 10:09 PM michael king wrote: > There were some changes on the AC for the Cobra that did "toughen" it up a > little like the vents and the fender flares and wider wheels....but I think > the biggest difference is the AC ace was a desirable boutique low volume > high end sports car with decent performance. > > The Cobra turned it into a boutique low volume high end performance car... > You didn't see Ace's running around everywhere.. an Ace was a special car > .. so it's not like you had a cooking model that suddenly was a wolf in > sheep's clothing. > > Just my 0.02c > > On Sun, 3 Sept 2023, 8:35 am David Sosna, > wrote: > >> Thanks for the link, Bruce. Interesting timing. This morning I was >> rereading a 2007 article about the Toyota Celica Supra: "To the untrained >> eye the first Supra looked like a Celica--*and nothing kills status >> faster than resembling a downmarket model*". Three years later, Toyota >> changed the sheetmetal for the next generation Supra to differentiate it >> from the Celica. I thought of the visual similarities between the Tiger >> and the Alpine; That was also mentioned in the clip you found. I guess >> that lack of differentiation was a problem for Rootes. Not sure why it >> worked for AC though, since the first Cobras looked like the Ace. If >> anybody wants to weigh-in on why it worked for AC, I'd appreciate your >> thoughts. >> >> Best Regards >> >> David Sosna >> >> >> >> >> On 9/2/23 09:58, Bruce Richards wrote: >> >> Sorry if this is repeated, I had to resubscribe and didn't know if the >> original went out. I have pledged 500 Pounds to Kickstarter. I believe >> with help of the list and other resources the $ can be raised. Glad to be >> back on the list. >> >> Thx, Bruce >> >> >> >> I seem to have dropped off of the mailing list, so I'm hoping this can be >> reposted. I would like to see this get completed and plan to pledge to the >> project. >> >> >> >> Le Mans, Shelby & 2 Smokin' Tigers by Berlinetta Films ? Kickstarter >> >> >> >> Thanks, >> >> Bruce >> B9470147 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> tigers at autox.team.net >> >> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive >> >> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/sosnaenergyconsulting at cox.net >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> tigers at autox.team.net >> >> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers >> http://autox.team.net/archive >> >> Unsubscribe: >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/michael.s.king at gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ > > tigers at autox.team.net > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers > http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/mark44124 at gmail.com > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From coolvt at aol.com Fri Sep 8 09:25:48 2023 From: coolvt at aol.com (M Lafayette) Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2023 15:25:48 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Tigers] Cleaning garage References: <1920061539.3678586.1694186748791.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1920061539.3678586.1694186748791@mail.yahoo.com> Cleaning garage.? Looking for reasonable offers for the following:? Can provide pictures. ?Rear stainless trim for hardtop.? Used.? ?Good condition. Could probably use re-polishing.?AddCo rear sway bar 5/8"? and all necessary installation parts and instructions.? New?Complete set of fuel tanks with cross-over pipe and original couplings and clamps.? One tank has tiny dents.?Dan Walters Torque Arm complete.? Instructions included.? ?New?? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From coolvt at aol.com Sat Sep 9 08:28:16 2023 From: coolvt at aol.com (M Lafayette) Date: Sat, 9 Sep 2023 14:28:16 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Tigers] Fwd: Cleaning garage In-Reply-To: <1920061539.3678586.1694186748791@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1920061539.3678586.1694186748791.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1920061539.3678586.1694186748791@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <222680520.3888938.1694269696142@mail.yahoo.com> ? Cleaning garage.? Looking for reasonable offers for the following:? Can provide pictures.? (Sway bar sold, torque arm sold). ?Rear stainless trim for hardtop.? Used.? ?Good condition. Could probably use re-polishing.?AddCo rear sway bar 5/8"? and all necessary installation parts and instructions.? New?Complete set of fuel tanks with cross-over pipe and original couplings and clamps.? One tank has tiny dents.?Dan Walters Torque Arm complete.? Instructions included.? ?New??_______________________________________________ tigers at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/coolvt at aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From coolvt at aol.com Sun Sep 10 11:08:50 2023 From: coolvt at aol.com (M Lafayette) Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2023 17:08:50 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Tigers] Tigers] Cleaning garage In-Reply-To: <1920061539.3678586.1694186748791@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1920061539.3678586.1694186748791.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1920061539.3678586.1694186748791@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <512153075.4030519.1694365730280@mail.yahoo.com> Cleaning garage.? Looking for reasonable offers for the following:? Can provide pictures. ?Rear stainless trim for hardtop.? Used.? ?Good condition. Could probably use re-polishing.?Complete set of fuel tanks with cross-over pipe and original couplings and clamps.? One tank has tiny dents.?Dan Walters Torque Arm complete.? Instructions included.? ?New? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamjvickery at gmail.com Tue Sep 12 03:53:29 2023 From: grahamjvickery at gmail.com (Graham Vickery) Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2023 10:53:29 +0100 Subject: [Tigers] Le Mans, Shelby & 2 Smokin' Tigers Kickstarter Message-ID: Tiger List: Re: Le Mans, Shelby & 2 Smokin' Tigers Kickstarter Bruce Thank you for your generous support and promotion of the Tiger film production to The List. The latest trailer can be viewed here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7FK49IZ7jAw&t=1s&pp=ygUWc3VuYmVhbSB0aWdlciBjbHViIHVrIA%3D%3D At the Sunbeam Tiger Club UK page on YouTube. We are targeting completion by the 60th Anniversary of the launch of the Tiger at the NYC Auto Show of April 1964. If allowed by Admin, further support can be given via https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/111019531/le-mans-shelby-and-2-smokin-tigers?ref=nav_search&result=project&term=le%20mans%20 Thanks Graham Vickery B382100633 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alpdavegre at msn.com Tue Sep 12 14:51:17 2023 From: alpdavegre at msn.com (DAVID GREEN) Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2023 20:51:17 +0000 Subject: [Tigers] Tigers Digest, Vol 16, Issue 204 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Excellent video gentlemen. Love all the commentaries! Dave Green 15 Alpines 3 Tigers (including Miss Kitty ) Get Outlook for Android ________________________________ From: Tigers on behalf of tigers-request at autox.team.net Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2023 11:00:01 AM To: tigers at autox.team.net Subject: Tigers Digest, Vol 16, Issue 204 Send Tigers mailing list submissions to tigers at autox.team.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fautox.team.net%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Ftigers&data=05%7C01%7C%7C06a146ba892748433aef08dbb3ba568d%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638301385122290356%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=EHaRKkTQKSCZ7DwPumC0KL1Fa2eQUuTnt2ynoTl%2BJ1E%3D&reserved=0 or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to tigers-request at autox.team.net You can reach the person managing the list at tigers-owner at autox.team.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Tigers digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: Le Mans, Shelby & 2 Smokin' Tigers Kickstarter (Graham Vickery) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2023 10:53:29 +0100 From: Graham Vickery To: tigers at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Tigers] Le Mans, Shelby & 2 Smokin' Tigers Kickstarter Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Tiger List: Re: Le Mans, Shelby & 2 Smokin' Tigers Kickstarter Bruce Thank you for your generous support and promotion of the Tiger film production to The List. The latest trailer can be viewed here: https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3D7FK49IZ7jAw%26t%3D1s%26pp%3DygUWc3VuYmVhbSB0aWdlciBjbHViIHVrIA%253D%253D&data=05%7C01%7C%7C06a146ba892748433aef08dbb3ba568d%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638301385122290356%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=9ClGOdnZjlYHYuM5ad8sFMq347smcDkyBe7RJHMlD9o%3D&reserved=0 At the Sunbeam Tiger Club UK page on YouTube. We are targeting completion by the 60th Anniversary of the launch of the Tiger at the NYC Auto Show of April 1964. If allowed by Admin, further support can be given via https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.kickstarter.com%2Fprojects%2F111019531%2Fle-mans-shelby-and-2-smokin-tigers%3Fref%3Dnav_search%26result%3Dproject%26term%3Dle%2520mans%2520&data=05%7C01%7C%7C06a146ba892748433aef08dbb3ba568d%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638301385122290356%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=L4eFDYTWr1LDWB0bPVkQYKzgEHxltZJ6L%2FWxxPRFdfQ%3D&reserved=0 Thanks Graham Vickery B382100633 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: > ------------------------------ Subject: Digest Footer _______________________________________________ Tigers mailing list Tigers at autox.team.net https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fautox.team.net%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Ftigers&data=05%7C01%7C%7C06a146ba892748433aef08dbb3ba568d%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638301385122290356%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=EHaRKkTQKSCZ7DwPumC0KL1Fa2eQUuTnt2ynoTl%2BJ1E%3D&reserved=0 Donate: https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.team.net%2Fdonate.html&data=05%7C01%7C%7C06a146ba892748433aef08dbb3ba568d%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638301385122290356%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=RgUXk0P8yKSS8%2BsxQ6fNC%2FSH3uMmdLnNGZ%2BLgnD1Trk%3D&reserved=0 Archive: https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.team.net%2Fpipermail%2Ftigers&data=05%7C01%7C%7C06a146ba892748433aef08dbb3ba568d%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638301385122290356%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=SaOOeZWjqDRYiQHZk4eqp3S5l9IUzOfAu3IgqWCRUkg%3D&reserved=0 https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fautox.team.net%2Farchive&data=05%7C01%7C%7C06a146ba892748433aef08dbb3ba568d%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638301385122290356%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=BRHNBPqj4hq4HW9f3LRxIWMifrZhxCmm%2FmQNxjRP160%3D&reserved=0 ------------------------------ End of Tigers Digest, Vol 16, Issue 204 *************************************** -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jmartiniii at yahoo.com Tue Sep 19 14:53:38 2023 From: jmartiniii at yahoo.com (Joel Martin) Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2023 20:53:38 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Tigers] Gas tank vent hose References: <2123714687.2137502.1695156818680.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2123714687.2137502.1695156818680@mail.yahoo.com> I have a ongoing issue, more of testing my patience, in that it takes me at least 5 minutes to completely fill my gas tanks.? It takes the first 8-9 gallons just fine but the last 3-4 takes forever.? I must squeak in .1-.2 gallons at a time, meaning I must wait 10-15 seconds for the gas to settle in the tanks before adding more. The gas tank vent hose is in the correct location, I believe.? No gas fumes in trunk.? Gas tank sending unit and gauge are pretty accurate.? When my patience holds and I get the tanks full, gauge shows 11.75 to 12 gallons on the gauge. Any ideas or suggestions as to why this might be happening and potential fix would be appreciated. Regards Joel Martin -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gregdawg89 at hotmail.com Tue Sep 19 15:16:38 2023 From: gregdawg89 at hotmail.com (Greg Oliver) Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2023 21:16:38 +0000 Subject: [Tigers] Gas tank vent hose In-Reply-To: <2123714687.2137502.1695156818680@mail.yahoo.com> References: <2123714687.2137502.1695156818680.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <2123714687.2137502.1695156818680@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: It does that with my Tiger too. ? ________________________________ From: Tigers on behalf of Joel Martin via Tigers Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2023 1:53 PM To: Tiger List Serve Subject: [Tigers] Gas tank vent hose I have a ongoing issue, more of testing my patience, in that it takes me at least 5 minutes to completely fill my gas tanks. It takes the first 8-9 gallons just fine but the last 3-4 takes forever. I must squeak in .1-.2 gallons at a time, meaning I must wait 10-15 seconds for the gas to settle in the tanks before adding more. The gas tank vent hose is in the correct location, I believe. No gas fumes in trunk. Gas tank sending unit and gauge are pretty accurate. When my patience holds and I get the tanks full, gauge shows 11.75 to 12 gallons on the gauge. Any ideas or suggestions as to why this might be happening and potential fix would be appreciated. Regards Joel Martin -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From garywinblad at comcast.net Wed Sep 20 09:07:17 2023 From: garywinblad at comcast.net (GARY WINBLAD) Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2023 11:07:17 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Tigers] Gas tank vent hose In-Reply-To: References: <2123714687.2137502.1695156818680.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <2123714687.2137502.1695156818680@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2099832708.720086.1695222437824@connect.xfinity.com> You must not be in CA (or other state with the vapor recovery gas pumps). All 13 gallons take forever for me, so I never try to go more than 9 or so. Old cars don't have the on-board carbon canister system that is needed for the new pumps. So there is nothing you can do. When the nozzle is fully inserted and gas pumped in the pressure rises and the pump shuts off, always spilling gas down the side and onto the ground. I have to hold the nozzle crooked so the bellows doesn't fully seat and just barely open the trigger, takes forever. Some guys hold the nozzle upside down (vertical) and it works better. I just tried this again and it did seem to work better than years ago when I last tried it. Gary > On 09/19/2023 2:16 PM PDT Greg Oliver wrote: > > > It does that with my Tiger too. ? > > > --------------------------------------------- > From: Tigers on behalf of Joel Martin via Tigers > Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2023 1:53 PM > To: Tiger List Serve > Subject: [Tigers] Gas tank vent hose > > I have a ongoing issue, more of testing my patience, in that it takes me at least 5 minutes to completely fill my gas tanks. It takes the first 8-9 gallons just fine but the last 3-4 takes forever. I must squeak in .1-.2 gallons at a time, meaning I must wait 10-15 seconds for the gas to settle in the tanks before adding more. > > The gas tank vent hose is in the correct location, I believe. No gas fumes in trunk. Gas tank sending unit and gauge are pretty accurate. When my patience holds and I get the tanks full, gauge shows 11.75 to 12 gallons on the gauge. > > Any ideas or suggestions as to why this might be happening and potential fix would be appreciated. > > Regards > > Joel Martin > _______________________________________________ > > tigers at autox.team.net > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/garywinblad at comcast.net > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jbsyv at yahoo.com Wed Sep 20 11:03:25 2023 From: jbsyv at yahoo.com (Jim B) Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2023 10:03:25 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Gas tank vent hose In-Reply-To: <2099832708.720086.1695222437824@connect.xfinity.com> References: <2123714687.2137502.1695156818680.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <2123714687.2137502.1695156818680@mail.yahoo.com> <2099832708.720086.1695222437824@connect.xfinity.com> Message-ID: Like Gary, I?m in CA and I hold back the vapor recovery sleeve. I angle the nozzle down into the filler pipe and that helps. Still a PITA though. Never tried the upside down method. > On Sep 20, 2023, at 8:07 AM, GARY WINBLAD wrote: > > You must not be in CA (or other state with the vapor recovery gas pumps). > All 13 gallons take forever for me, so I never try to go more than 9 or so. > Old cars don't have the on-board carbon canister system that is needed for the new pumps. > So there is nothing you can do. > When the nozzle is fully inserted and gas pumped in the pressure rises and the pump shuts > off, always spilling gas down the side and onto the ground. > I have to hold the nozzle crooked so the bellows doesn't fully seat and just barely open the > trigger, takes forever. > Some guys hold the nozzle upside down (vertical) and it works better. I just tried this again > and it did seem to work better than years ago when I last tried it. > Gary > > >> On 09/19/2023 2:16 PM PDT Greg Oliver wrote: >> >> >> It does that with my Tiger too. ? >> >> From: Tigers on behalf of Joel Martin via Tigers >> Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2023 1:53 PM >> To: Tiger List Serve >> Subject: [Tigers] Gas tank vent hose >> >> I have a ongoing issue, more of testing my patience, in that it takes me at least 5 minutes to completely fill my gas tanks. It takes the first 8-9 gallons just fine but the last 3-4 takes forever. I must squeak in .1-.2 gallons at a time, meaning I must wait 10-15 seconds for the gas to settle in the tanks before adding more. >> >> The gas tank vent hose is in the correct location, I believe. No gas fumes in trunk. Gas tank sending unit and gauge are pretty accurate. When my patience holds and I get the tanks full, gauge shows 11.75 to 12 gallons on the gauge. >> >> Any ideas or suggestions as to why this might be happening and potential fix would be appreciated. >> >> Regards >> >> Joel Martin >> _______________________________________________ >> >> tigers at autox.team.net >> >> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive >> >> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/garywinblad at comcast.net >> >> > _______________________________________________ > > tigers at autox.team.net > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/jbsyv at yahoo.com > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From douglasalyle at yahoo.com Wed Sep 20 14:12:26 2023 From: douglasalyle at yahoo.com (Douglas Lyle) Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2023 20:12:26 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Tigers] Gas tank vent hose In-Reply-To: References: <2123714687.2137502.1695156818680.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <2123714687.2137502.1695156818680@mail.yahoo.com> <2099832708.720086.1695222437824@connect.xfinity.com> Message-ID: <1654265713.3101341.1695240746597@mail.yahoo.com> A couple of years ago a guy was on here advertising an aluminum spacer that you used to put between the tank and nozzle for pumping gas.??? Don't recall who that was though but maybe someone else does. Doug Lyle On Wednesday, September 20, 2023 at 01:06:28 PM PDT, Jim B via Tigers wrote: Like Gary, I?m in CA and I hold back the vapor recovery sleeve. I angle the nozzle down into the filler pipe and that helps. Still a PITA though. Never tried the upside down method. On Sep 20, 2023, at 8:07 AM, GARY WINBLAD wrote: You must not be in CA (or other state with the vapor recovery gas pumps). All 13 gallons take forever for me, so I never try to go more than 9 or so. Old cars don't have the on-board carbon canister system that is needed for the new pumps. So there is nothing you can do. When the nozzle is fully inserted and gas pumped in the pressure rises and the pump shuts off, always spilling gas down the side and onto the ground.? I have to hold the nozzle crooked so the bellows doesn't fully seat and just barely open the trigger, takes forever. Some guys hold the nozzle upside down (vertical) and it works better.? I just tried this again and it did seem to work better than years ago when I last tried it. Gary ? ? On 09/19/2023 2:16 PM PDT Greg Oliver wrote: ? ? It does that with my Tiger too. ? ? From: Tigers on behalf of Joel Martin via Tigers Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2023 1:53 PM To: Tiger List Serve Subject: [Tigers] Gas tank vent hose ? I have a ongoing issue, more of testing my patience, in that it takes me at least 5 minutes to completely fill my gas tanks.? It takes the first 8-9 gallons just fine but the last 3-4 takes forever.? I must squeak in .1-.2 gallons at a time, meaning I must wait 10-15 seconds for the gas to settle in the tanks before adding more. ? The gas tank vent hose is in the correct location, I believe.? No gas fumes in trunk.? Gas tank sending unit and gauge are pretty accurate.? When my patience holds and I get the tanks full, gauge shows 11.75 to 12 gallons on the gauge. ? Any ideas or suggestions as to why this might be happening and potential fix would be appreciated. ? Regards ? Joel Martin _______________________________________________ tigers at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/garywinblad at comcast.net _______________________________________________ tigers at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/jbsyv at yahoo.com _______________________________________________ tigers at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/douglasalyle at yahoo.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From owain.lloyd at gmail.com Wed Sep 20 15:12:45 2023 From: owain.lloyd at gmail.com (Owain Lloyd) Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2023 23:12:45 +0200 Subject: [Tigers] Gas tank vent hose In-Reply-To: References: <2123714687.2137502.1695156818680.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <2123714687.2137502.1695156818680@mail.yahoo.com> <2099832708.720086.1695222437824@connect.xfinity.com> Message-ID: you guys should try a peugeot 205 convertible. the angle is so messed up it must have been a pain from new and you have the dribble the whole tank in. even then there is a fair bit of bounce back and spilling down the side. we forget how good modern cars are at solving all these little quirks of bad design. On Wed, Sep 20, 2023 at 10:08?PM Jim B via Tigers wrote: > Like Gary, I?m in CA and I hold back the vapor recovery sleeve. I angle > the nozzle down into the filler pipe and that helps. Still a PITA though. > Never tried the upside down method. > > On Sep 20, 2023, at 8:07 AM, GARY WINBLAD wrote: > > You must not be in CA (or other state with the vapor recovery gas pumps). > All 13 gallons take forever for me, so I never try to go more than 9 or > so. > Old cars don't have the on-board carbon canister system that is needed for > the new pumps. > So there is nothing you can do. > When the nozzle is fully inserted and gas pumped in the pressure rises and > the pump shuts > off, always spilling gas down the side and onto the ground. > I have to hold the nozzle crooked so the bellows doesn't fully seat and > just barely open the > trigger, takes forever. > Some guys hold the nozzle upside down (vertical) and it works better. I > just tried this again > and it did seem to work better than years ago when I last tried it. > Gary > > > > On 09/19/2023 2:16 PM PDT Greg Oliver wrote: > > > It does that with my Tiger too. ? > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Tigers on behalf of Joel Martin > via Tigers > *Sent:* Tuesday, September 19, 2023 1:53 PM > *To:* Tiger List Serve > *Subject:* [Tigers] Gas tank vent hose > > I have a ongoing issue, more of testing my patience, in that it takes me > at least 5 minutes to completely fill my gas tanks. It takes the first 8-9 > gallons just fine but the last 3-4 takes forever. I must squeak in .1-.2 > gallons at a time, meaning I must wait 10-15 seconds for the gas to settle > in the tanks before adding more. > > The gas tank vent hose is in the correct location, I believe. No gas > fumes in trunk. Gas tank sending unit and gauge are pretty accurate. When > my patience holds and I get the tanks full, gauge shows 11.75 to 12 gallons > on the gauge. > > Any ideas or suggestions as to why this might be happening and potential > fix would be appreciated. > > Regards > > Joel Martin > _______________________________________________ > > tigers at autox.team.net > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers > http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/garywinblad at comcast.net > > > _______________________________________________ > > tigers at autox.team.net > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers > http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/jbsyv at yahoo.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > > tigers at autox.team.net > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers > http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/owain.lloyd at gmail.com > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From coolvt at aol.com Wed Sep 20 15:30:36 2023 From: coolvt at aol.com (M Lafayette) Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2023 21:30:36 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Tigers] Gas tank vent hose In-Reply-To: References: <2123714687.2137502.1695156818680.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <2123714687.2137502.1695156818680@mail.yahoo.com> <2099832708.720086.1695222437824@connect.xfinity.com> Message-ID: <471796691.2453120.1695245436098@mail.yahoo.com> Seems like a few years back someone was advertising a device to put into the tank opening that supposedly solved this problem. In a message dated 9/20/2023 4:07:50 PM Eastern Daylight Time, tigers at autox.team.net writes:? Like Gary, I?m in CA and I hold back the vapor recovery sleeve. I angle the nozzle down into the filler pipe and that helps. Still a PITA though. Never tried the upside down method. On Sep 20, 2023, at 8:07 AM, GARY WINBLAD wrote: ? You must not be in CA (or other state with the vapor recovery gas pumps).All 13 gallons take forever for me, so I never try to go more than 9 or so.Old cars don't have the on-board carbon canister system that is needed for the new pumps.So there is nothing you can do.When the nozzle is fully inserted and gas pumped in the pressure rises and the pump shutsoff, always spilling gas down the side and onto the ground.?I have to hold the nozzle crooked so the bellows doesn't fully seat and just barely open thetrigger, takes forever.Some guys hold the nozzle upside down (vertical) and it works better.? I just tried this againand it did seem to work better than years ago when I last tried it.Gary?? On 09/19/2023 2:16 PM PDT Greg Oliver wrote:??It does that with my Tiger too. ??From: Tigers on behalf of Joel Martin via Tigers Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2023 1:53 PM To: Tiger List Serve Subject: [Tigers] Gas tank vent hose?I have a ongoing issue, more of testing my patience, in that it takes me at least 5 minutes to completely fill my gas tanks.? It takes the first 8-9 gallons just fine but the last 3-4 takes forever.? I must squeak in .1-.2 gallons at a time, meaning I must wait 10-15 seconds for the gas to settle in the tanks before adding more.?The gas tank vent hose is in the correct location, I believe.? No gas fumes in trunk.? Gas tank sending unit and gauge are pretty accurate.? When my patience holds and I get the tanks full, gauge shows 11.75 to 12 gallons on the gauge.?Any ideas or suggestions as to why this might be happening and potential fix would be appreciated.?Regards?Joel Martin_______________________________________________ tigers at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/garywinblad at comcast.net _______________________________________________ tigers at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/jbsyv at yahoo.com _______________________________________________ tigers at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/coolvt at aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From blance598 at gmail.com Wed Sep 20 16:55:32 2023 From: blance598 at gmail.com (Lance Beauchamp) Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2023 18:55:32 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Gas tank Message-ID: Real coincidence I just had to repair my line , noticed that it was broken . Never had an issue filling both fairly quickly. It's just letting the air out. You know can't have two things in the same space. Make sure there is no blockage. Love this club. Lance /Beau. Either. Or -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From garywinblad at comcast.net Wed Sep 20 17:42:30 2023 From: garywinblad at comcast.net (GARY WINBLAD) Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2023 19:42:30 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Tigers] Gas tank vent hose In-Reply-To: <1654265713.3101341.1695240746597@mail.yahoo.com> References: <2123714687.2137502.1695156818680.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <2123714687.2137502.1695156818680@mail.yahoo.com> <2099832708.720086.1695222437824@connect.xfinity.com> <1654265713.3101341.1695240746597@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1635048535.739142.1695253350528@connect.xfinity.com> Hi Doug, long time! That was probably like the credit card sized plastic gadget I bought. It had an oblong hole in the center. You put that over the nozzle and pushed bellows back with it, then you slid it to lock it, causing the bellows to be held all the way back so it knew you didn't want it to seal. It sort of worked but wasn't any easier than holding the bellows back or pushing it into the car slightly sideways to leave a gap on one side, that does work but you still have to pump really slowly. Gary Winblad > On 09/20/2023 1:12 PM PDT Douglas Lyle via Tigers wrote: > > > > A couple of years ago a guy was on here advertising an aluminum spacer that you used to put between the tank and nozzle for pumping gas. Don't recall who that was though but maybe someone else does. > > Doug Lyle > > On Wednesday, September 20, 2023 at 01:06:28 PM PDT, Jim B via Tigers wrote: > > > Like Gary, I?m in CA and I hold back the vapor recovery sleeve. I angle the nozzle down into the filler pipe and that helps. Still a PITA though. Never tried the upside down method. > > > > On Sep 20, 2023, at 8:07 AM, GARY WINBLAD wrote: > > > > > > > You must not be in CA (or other state with the vapor recovery gas pumps). > All 13 gallons take forever for me, so I never try to go more than 9 or so. > Old cars don't have the on-board carbon canister system that is needed for the new pumps. > So there is nothing you can do. > When the nozzle is fully inserted and gas pumped in the pressure rises and the pump shuts > off, always spilling gas down the side and onto the ground. > I have to hold the nozzle crooked so the bellows doesn't fully seat and just barely open the > trigger, takes forever. > Some guys hold the nozzle upside down (vertical) and it works better. I just tried this again > and it did seem to work better than years ago when I last tried it. > Gary > > > > > On 09/19/2023 2:16 PM PDT Greg Oliver wrote: > > > > > > It does that with my Tiger too. ? > > > > > > --------------------------------------------- > > From: Tigers on behalf of Joel Martin via Tigers > > Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2023 1:53 PM > > To: Tiger List Serve > > Subject: [Tigers] Gas tank vent hose > > > > I have a ongoing issue, more of testing my patience, in that it takes me at least 5 minutes to completely fill my gas tanks. It takes the first 8-9 gallons just fine but the last 3-4 takes forever. I must squeak in .1-.2 gallons at a time, meaning I must wait 10-15 seconds for the gas to settle in the tanks before adding more. > > > > The gas tank vent hose is in the correct location, I believe. No gas fumes in trunk. Gas tank sending unit and gauge are pretty accurate. When my patience holds and I get the tanks full, gauge shows 11.75 to 12 gallons on the gauge. > > > > Any ideas or suggestions as to why this might be happening and potential fix would be appreciated. > > > > Regards > > > > Joel Martin > > _______________________________________________ > > > > tigers at autox.team.net > > > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive > > > > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/garywinblad at comcast.net > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > tigers at autox.team.net > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/jbsyv at yahoo.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > > tigers at autox.team.net mailto:tigers at autox.team.net > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/douglasalyle at yahoo.com > > > _______________________________________________ > > tigers at autox.team.net > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/garywinblad at comcast.net > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mark44124 at gmail.com Wed Sep 20 19:31:11 2023 From: mark44124 at gmail.com (Mark Rense) Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2023 21:31:11 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Gas tank vent hose In-Reply-To: References: <2123714687.2137502.1695156818680.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <2123714687.2137502.1695156818680@mail.yahoo.com> <2099832708.720086.1695222437824@connect.xfinity.com> Message-ID: This issue has plagued us motorcyclists for years. There is a simple nozzle key tool designed to hold the nozzle bellows back. Bugz https://www.aerostich.com/aluminum-gas-pump-nozzle-key.html On Wed, Sep 20, 2023 at 4:16 PM Jim B via Tigers wrote: > Like Gary, I?m in CA and I hold back the vapor recovery sleeve. I angle > the nozzle down into the filler pipe and that helps. Still a PITA though. > Never tried the upside down method. > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Tigers at embarqmail.com Wed Sep 20 20:12:16 2023 From: Tigers at embarqmail.com (Will Seay) Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2023 22:12:16 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Gas tank vent hose In-Reply-To: <471796691.2453120.1695245436098@mail.yahoo.com> References: <2123714687.2137502.1695156818680.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <2123714687.2137502.1695156818680@mail.yahoo.com> <2099832708.720086.1695222437824@connect.xfinity.com> <471796691.2453120.1695245436098@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I'm in VA and we don't have this problem. It seems to me that this issue came up some time ago and that someone recommended a collar/funnel device that you put into the filler. As I recall, the device was made to be used for motorcycles. If you have any biker friends maybe you could get a line on it. Will - 382001570 Tigers at embarqmail.com On Wed, Sep 20, 2023 at 5:30?PM M Lafayette via Tigers < tigers at autox.team.net> wrote: > Seems like a few years back someone was advertising a device to put into > the tank opening that supposedly solved this problem. > > In a message dated 9/20/2023 4:07:50 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > tigers at autox.team.net writes: > > > Like Gary, I?m in CA and I hold back the vapor recovery sleeve. I angle > the nozzle down into the filler pipe and that helps. Still a PITA though. > Never tried the upside down method. > > On Sep 20, 2023, at 8:07 AM, GARY WINBLAD wrote: > > > > You must not be in CA (or other state with the vapor recovery gas pumps). > All 13 gallons take forever for me, so I never try to go more than 9 or so. > Old cars don't have the on-board carbon canister system that is needed for > the new pumps. > So there is nothing you can do. > When the nozzle is fully inserted and gas pumped in the pressure rises and > the pump shuts > off, always spilling gas down the side and onto the ground. > I have to hold the nozzle crooked so the bellows doesn't fully seat and > just barely open the > trigger, takes forever. > Some guys hold the nozzle upside down (vertical) and it works better. I > just tried this again > and it did seem to work better than years ago when I last tried it. > Gary > > > > On 09/19/2023 2:16 PM PDT Greg Oliver wrote: > > > It does that with my Tiger too. ? > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Tigers on behalf of Joel Martin > via Tigers > *Sent:* Tuesday, September 19, 2023 1:53 PM > *To:* Tiger List Serve > *Subject:* [Tigers] Gas tank vent hose > > I have a ongoing issue, more of testing my patience, in that it takes me > at least 5 minutes to completely fill my gas tanks. It takes the first 8-9 > gallons just fine but the last 3-4 takes forever. I must squeak in .1-.2 > gallons at a time, meaning I must wait 10-15 seconds for the gas to settle > in the tanks before adding more. > > The gas tank vent hose is in the correct location, I believe. No gas > fumes in trunk. Gas tank sending unit and gauge are pretty accurate. When > my patience holds and I get the tanks full, gauge shows 11.75 to 12 gallons > on the gauge. > > Any ideas or suggestions as to why this might be happening and potential > fix would be appreciated. > > Regards > > Joel Martin > _______________________________________________ > > tigers at autox.team.net > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers > http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/garywinblad at comcast.net > > > _______________________________________________ > > tigers at autox.team.net > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers > http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/jbsyv at yahoo.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > > tigers at autox.team.net > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers > http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/coolvt at aol.com > > > _______________________________________________ > > tigers at autox.team.net > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers > http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/tigers at embarqmail.com > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From twotigers at verizon.net Wed Sep 20 21:15:46 2023 From: twotigers at verizon.net (twotigers at verizon.net) Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2023 20:15:46 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Gas tank vent hose In-Reply-To: <471796691.2453120.1695245436098@mail.yahoo.com> References: <2123714687.2137502.1695156818680.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <2123714687.2137502.1695156818680@mail.yahoo.com> <2099832708.720086.1695222437824@connect.xfinity.com> <471796691.2453120.1695245436098@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <001d01d9ec39$ea55e8d0$bf01ba70$@verizon.net> I had the same trouble as everybody else, and the only relief I could get was to break the recovery seal, also. This went on for decades. One day I smelled some gas fumes in the car. After eliminating the carb as the source I started looking behind the trunk panels. I found a crack in the vent tube and another crack in the filler neck. Fixed both of those. Went to gas up, stuck the nozzle in, put the automatic trip on, and was shocked that the tanks filled completely. This was about a year ago. Every fill up since, even at different gas stations, has had the same result. Goes totally against logic and critical thinking, because previously the only way to get gas in was to break the seal. Now, with no way for air to enter the system, it fills up completely without any fuss. Go figure! Kirk From: Tigers On Behalf Of M Lafayette via Tigers Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2023 2:31 PM To: jbsyv at yahoo.com; tigers at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Tigers] Gas tank vent hose Seems like a few years back someone was advertising a device to put into the tank opening that supposedly solved this problem. In a message dated 9/20/2023 4:07:50 PM Eastern Daylight Time, tigers at autox.team.net writes: Like Gary, I?m in CA and I hold back the vapor recovery sleeve. I angle the nozzle down into the filler pipe and that helps. Still a PITA though. Never tried the upside down method. On Sep 20, 2023, at 8:07 AM, GARY WINBLAD > wrote: You must not be in CA (or other state with the vapor recovery gas pumps). All 13 gallons take forever for me, so I never try to go more than 9 or so. Old cars don't have the on-board carbon canister system that is needed for the new pumps. So there is nothing you can do. When the nozzle is fully inserted and gas pumped in the pressure rises and the pump shuts off, always spilling gas down the side and onto the ground. I have to hold the nozzle crooked so the bellows doesn't fully seat and just barely open the trigger, takes forever. Some guys hold the nozzle upside down (vertical) and it works better. I just tried this again and it did seem to work better than years ago when I last tried it. Gary On 09/19/2023 2:16 PM PDT Greg Oliver > wrote: It does that with my Tiger too. ? _____ From: Tigers > on behalf of Joel Martin via Tigers > Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2023 1:53 PM To: Tiger List Serve > Subject: [Tigers] Gas tank vent hose I have a ongoing issue, more of testing my patience, in that it takes me at least 5 minutes to completely fill my gas tanks. It takes the first 8-9 gallons just fine but the last 3-4 takes forever. I must squeak in .1-.2 gallons at a time, meaning I must wait 10-15 seconds for the gas to settle in the tanks before adding more. The gas tank vent hose is in the correct location, I believe. No gas fumes in trunk. Gas tank sending unit and gauge are pretty accurate. When my patience holds and I get the tanks full, gauge shows 11.75 to 12 gallons on the gauge. Any ideas or suggestions as to why this might be happening and potential fix would be appreciated. Regards Joel Martin _______________________________________________ tigers at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/garywinblad at comcast.net _______________________________________________ tigers at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/jbsyv at yahoo.com _______________________________________________ tigers at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/coolvt at aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From garywinblad at comcast.net Thu Sep 21 08:48:54 2023 From: garywinblad at comcast.net (GARY WINBLAD) Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2023 10:48:54 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Tigers] Gas tank vent hose In-Reply-To: <001d01d9ec39$ea55e8d0$bf01ba70$@verizon.net> References: <2123714687.2137502.1695156818680.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <2123714687.2137502.1695156818680@mail.yahoo.com> <2099832708.720086.1695222437824@connect.xfinity.com> <471796691.2453120.1695245436098@mail.yahoo.com> <001d01d9ec39$ea55e8d0$bf01ba70$@verizon.net> Message-ID: <925019756.750198.1695307734390@connect.xfinity.com> Kirk, Very interesting... yes, not logical... unless.. In googling I found an article that said Obama changed the rule that stations do not need the recovery nozzles anymore. Any chance that they changed them in your area just at the time you fixed your leaks? I have thought of putting a vent valve in for use during fill ups. Gary > On 09/20/2023 8:15 PM PDT twotigers--- via Tigers wrote: > > > > I had the same trouble as everybody else, and the only relief I could get was to break the recovery seal, also. This went on for decades. One day I smelled some gas fumes in the car. After eliminating the carb as the source I started looking behind the trunk panels. I found a crack in the vent tube and another crack in the filler neck. Fixed both of those. Went to gas up, stuck the nozzle in, put the automatic trip on, and was shocked that the tanks filled completely. This was about a year ago. Every fill up since, even at different gas stations, has had the same result. Goes totally against logic and critical thinking, because previously the only way to get gas in was to break the seal. Now, with no way for air to enter the system, it fills up completely without any fuss. Go figure! > > > > Kirk > > > > > > > > > > From: Tigers On Behalf Of M Lafayette via Tigers > Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2023 2:31 PM > To: jbsyv at yahoo.com; tigers at autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Tigers] Gas tank vent hose > > > > Seems like a few years back someone was advertising a device to put into the tank opening that supposedly solved this problem. > > > In a message dated 9/20/2023 4:07:50 PM Eastern Daylight Time, tigers at autox.team.net mailto:tigers at autox.team.net writes: > > > > > > > Like Gary, I?m in CA and I hold back the vapor recovery sleeve. I angle the nozzle down into the filler pipe and that helps. Still a PITA though. Never tried the upside down method. > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sep 20, 2023, at 8:07 AM, GARY WINBLAD wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You must not be in CA (or other state with the vapor recovery gas pumps). > > > > All 13 gallons take forever for me, so I never try to go more than 9 or so. > > > > Old cars don't have the on-board carbon canister system that is needed for the new pumps. > > > > So there is nothing you can do. > > > > When the nozzle is fully inserted and gas pumped in the pressure rises and the pump shuts > > > > off, always spilling gas down the side and onto the ground. > > > > I have to hold the nozzle crooked so the bellows doesn't fully seat and just barely open the > > > > trigger, takes forever. > > > > Some guys hold the nozzle upside down (vertical) and it works better. I just tried this again > > > > and it did seem to work better than years ago when I last tried it. > > > > Gary > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 09/19/2023 2:16 PM PDT Greg Oliver wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It does that with my Tiger too. ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------- > > > > > > From: Tigers on behalf of Joel Martin via Tigers > > > Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2023 1:53 PM > > > To: Tiger List Serve > > > Subject: [Tigers] Gas tank vent hose > > > > > > > > > > > > I have a ongoing issue, more of testing my patience, in that it takes me at least 5 minutes to completely fill my gas tanks. It takes the first 8-9 gallons just fine but the last 3-4 takes forever. I must squeak in .1-.2 gallons at a time, meaning I must wait 10-15 seconds for the gas to settle in the tanks before adding more. > > > > > > > > > > > > The gas tank vent hose is in the correct location, I believe. No gas fumes in trunk. Gas tank sending unit and gauge are pretty accurate. When my patience holds and I get the tanks full, gauge shows 11.75 to 12 gallons on the gauge. > > > > > > > > > > > > Any ideas or suggestions as to why this might be happening and potential fix would be appreciated. > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards > > > > > > > > > > > > Joel Martin > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > tigers at autox.team.net mailto:tigers at autox.team.net > > > > > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive > > > > > > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/garywinblad at comcast.net > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > tigers at autox.team.net mailto:tigers at autox.team.net > > > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive > > > > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/jbsyv at yahoo.com > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > tigers at autox.team.net mailto:tigers at autox.team.net > > > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive > > > > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/coolvt at aol.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > tigers at autox.team.net > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/garywinblad at comcast.net > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jmartiniii at yahoo.com Thu Sep 21 10:27:57 2023 From: jmartiniii at yahoo.com (Joel Martin) Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2023 16:27:57 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Tigers] Gas tank vent hose In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <185769283.2664936.1695313677614@mail.yahoo.com> Thank you all for the responses.?? The rubber is about 5 years old and with no fumes in car or trunk, it should be good.? I will check routing of gas tank vent hose for any kinks and obstructions. As we live in NC, we have no vapor recovery sleeve gas nozzles. The nozzle key, I believe would not do anything to help.? If no kinks or obstructions, from others having the same issue, I will have to check my impatience at the door. Joel On Thursday, September 21, 2023 at 02:08:02 AM EDT, tigers-request at autox.team.net wrote: Send Tigers mailing list submissions to ??? tigers at autox.team.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit ??? http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to ??? tigers-request at autox.team.net You can reach the person managing the list at ??? tigers-owner at autox.team.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Tigers digest..." Today's Topics: ? 1. Re: Gas tank vent hose (Mark Rense) ? 2. Re: Gas tank vent hose (Will Seay) ? 3. Re: Gas tank vent hose (twotigers at verizon.net) This issue has plagued us motorcyclists for years. There is a simple nozzle key tool designed to hold the nozzle bellows back.? Bugz https://www.aerostich.com/aluminum-gas-pump-nozzle-key.html On Wed, Sep 20, 2023 at 4:16 PM Jim B via Tigers wrote: Like Gary, I?m in CA and I hold back the vapor recovery sleeve. I angle the nozzle down into the filler pipe and that helps. Still a PITA though. Never tried the upside down method. I'm in VA and we don't have this problem.? It seems to me that this issue came up some time ago and that someone recommended?a collar/funnel device that you put into the filler.? As I recall, the device was made to be used for motorcycles.? If you have any biker friends maybe you could get a line on it. Will - 382001570 Tigers at embarqmail.com On Wed, Sep 20, 2023 at 5:30?PM M Lafayette via Tigers wrote: Seems like a few years back someone was advertising a device to put into the tank opening that supposedly solved this problem. In a message dated 9/20/2023 4:07:50 PM Eastern Daylight Time, tigers at autox.team.net writes:? Like Gary, I?m in CA and I hold back the vapor recovery sleeve. I angle the nozzle down into the filler pipe and that helps. Still a PITA though. Never tried the upside down method. On Sep 20, 2023, at 8:07 AM, GARY WINBLAD wrote: ? You must not be in CA (or other state with the vapor recovery gas pumps).All 13 gallons take forever for me, so I never try to go more than 9 or so.Old cars don't have the on-board carbon canister system that is needed for the new pumps.So there is nothing you can do.When the nozzle is fully inserted and gas pumped in the pressure rises and the pump shutsoff, always spilling gas down the side and onto the ground.?I have to hold the nozzle crooked so the bellows doesn't fully seat and just barely open thetrigger, takes forever.Some guys hold the nozzle upside down (vertical) and it works better.? I just tried this againand it did seem to work better than years ago when I last tried it.Gary?? On 09/19/2023 2:16 PM PDT Greg Oliver wrote:??It does that with my Tiger too. ??From: Tigers on behalf of Joel Martin via Tigers Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2023 1:53 PM To: Tiger List Serve Subject: [Tigers] Gas tank vent hose?I have a ongoing issue, more of testing my patience, in that it takes me at least 5 minutes to completely fill my gas tanks.? It takes the first 8-9 gallons just fine but the last 3-4 takes forever.? I must squeak in .1-.2 gallons at a time, meaning I must wait 10-15 seconds for the gas to settle in the tanks before adding more.?The gas tank vent hose is in the correct location, I believe.? No gas fumes in trunk.? Gas tank sending unit and gauge are pretty accurate.? When my patience holds and I get the tanks full, gauge shows 11.75 to 12 gallons on the gauge.?Any ideas or suggestions as to why this might be happening and potential fix would be appreciated.?Regards?Joel Martin_______________________________________________ tigers at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/garywinblad at comcast.net _______________________________________________ tigers at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/jbsyv at yahoo.com _______________________________________________ tigers at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/coolvt at aol.com _______________________________________________ tigers at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/tigers at embarqmail.com I had the same trouble as everybody else, and the only relief I could get was to break the recovery seal, also. This went on for decades. One day I smelled some gas fumes in the car. After eliminating the carb as the source I started looking behind the trunk panels. I found a crack in the vent tube and another crack in the filler neck. Fixed both of those. Went to gas up, stuck the nozzle in, put the automatic trip on, and was shocked that the tanks filled completely. This was about a year ago. Every fill up since, even at different gas stations, has had the same result. Goes totally against logic and critical thinking, because previously the only way to get gas in was to break the seal. Now, with no way for air to enter the system, it fills up completely without any fuss. Go figure! ? Kirk ? ? ? ? From: Tigers On Behalf Of M Lafayette via Tigers Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2023 2:31 PM To: jbsyv at yahoo.com; tigers at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Tigers] Gas tank vent hose ? Seems like a few years back someone was advertising a device to put into the tank opening that supposedly solved this problem. In a message dated 9/20/2023 4:07:50 PM Eastern Daylight Time, tigers at autox.team.net writes: ? Like Gary, I?m in CA and I hold back the vapor recovery sleeve. I angle the nozzle down into the filler pipe and that helps. Still a PITA though. Never tried the upside down method. ? On Sep 20, 2023, at 8:07 AM, GARY WINBLAD wrote: ? ? You must not be in CA (or other state with the vapor recovery gas pumps). All 13 gallons take forever for me, so I never try to go more than 9 or so. Old cars don't have the on-board carbon canister system that is needed for the new pumps. So there is nothing you can do. When the nozzle is fully inserted and gas pumped in the pressure rises and the pump shuts off, always spilling gas down the side and onto the ground.? I have to hold the nozzle crooked so the bellows doesn't fully seat and just barely open the trigger, takes forever. Some guys hold the nozzle upside down (vertical) and it works better.? I just tried this again and it did seem to work better than years ago when I last tried it. Gary ? ? On 09/19/2023 2:16 PM PDT Greg Oliver wrote: ? ? It does that with my Tiger too. ? ? From: Tigers on behalf of Joel Martin via Tigers Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2023 1:53 PM To: Tiger List Serve Subject: [Tigers] Gas tank vent hose ? I have a ongoing issue, more of testing my patience, in that it takes me at least 5 minutes to completely fill my gas tanks.? It takes the first 8-9 gallons just fine but the last 3-4 takes forever.? I must squeak in .1-.2 gallons at a time, meaning I must wait 10-15 seconds for the gas to settle in the tanks before adding more. ? The gas tank vent hose is in the correct location, I believe.? No gas fumes in trunk.? Gas tank sending unit and gauge are pretty accurate.? When my patience holds and I get the tanks full, gauge shows 11.75 to 12 gallons on the gauge. ? Any ideas or suggestions as to why this might be happening and potential fix would be appreciated. ? Regards ? Joel Martin _______________________________________________ tigers at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/garywinblad at comcast.net _______________________________________________ tigers at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/jbsyv at yahoo.com _______________________________________________ tigers at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/coolvt at aol.com _______________________________________________ Tigers mailing list Tigers at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From twotigers at verizon.net Thu Sep 21 11:54:49 2023 From: twotigers at verizon.net (twotigers at verizon.net) Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2023 10:54:49 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Gas tank vent hose In-Reply-To: <925019756.750198.1695307734390@connect.xfinity.com> References: <2123714687.2137502.1695156818680.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <2123714687.2137502.1695156818680@mail.yahoo.com> <2099832708.720086.1695222437824@connect.xfinity.com> <471796691.2453120.1695245436098@mail.yahoo.com> <001d01d9ec39$ea55e8d0$bf01ba70$@verizon.net> <925019756.750198.1695307734390@connect.xfinity.com> Message-ID: <000801d9ecb4$b789f380$269dda80$@verizon.net> Gary, California still has the recovery nozzles. From: GARY WINBLAD Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2023 7:49 AM To: twotigers at verizon.net; twotigers--- via Tigers ; M Lafayette ; jbsyv at yahoo.com Subject: Re: [Tigers] Gas tank vent hose Kirk, Very interesting... yes, not logical... unless.. In googling I found an article that said Obama changed the rule that stations do not need the recovery nozzles anymore. Any chance that they changed them in your area just at the time you fixed your leaks? I have thought of putting a vent valve in for use during fill ups. Gary On 09/20/2023 8:15 PM PDT twotigers--- via Tigers > wrote: I had the same trouble as everybody else, and the only relief I could get was to break the recovery seal, also. This went on for decades. One day I smelled some gas fumes in the car. After eliminating the carb as the source I started looking behind the trunk panels. I found a crack in the vent tube and another crack in the filler neck. Fixed both of those. Went to gas up, stuck the nozzle in, put the automatic trip on, and was shocked that the tanks filled completely. This was about a year ago Every fill up since, even at different gas stations, has had the same result. Goes totally against logic and critical thinking, because previously the only way to get gas in was to break the seal. Now, with no way for air to enter the system, it fills up completely without any fuss. Go figure! Kirk From: Tigers > On Behalf Of M Lafayette via Tigers Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2023 2:31 PM To: jbsyv at yahoo.com ; tigers at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Tigers] Gas tank vent hose Seems like a few years back someone was advertising a device to put into the tank opening that supposedly solved this problem. In a message dated 9/20/2023 4:07:50 PM Eastern Daylight Time, tigers at autox.team.net writes: Like Gary, I?m in CA and I hold back the vapor recovery sleeve. I angle the nozzle down into the filler pipe and that helps. Still a PITA though. Never tried the upside down method. On Sep 20, 2023, at 8:07 AM, GARY WINBLAD > wrote: You must not be in CA (or other state with the vapor recovery gas pumps). All 13 gallons take forever for me, so I never try to go more than 9 or so. Old cars don't have the on-board carbon canister system that is needed for the new pumps. So there is nothing you can do. When the nozzle is fully inserted and gas pumped in the pressure rises and the pump shuts off, always spilling gas down the side and onto the ground. I have to hold the nozzle crooked so the bellows doesn't fully seat and just barely open the trigger, takes forever. Some guys hold the nozzle upside down (vertical) and it works better. I just tried this again and it did seem to work better than years ago when I last tried it. Gary On 09/19/2023 2:16 PM PDT Greg Oliver > wrote: It does that with my Tiger too. ? _____ From: Tigers > on behalf of Joel Martin via Tigers > Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2023 1:53 PM To: Tiger List Serve > Subject: [Tigers] Gas tank vent hose I have a ongoing issue, more of testing my patience, in that it takes me at least 5 minutes to completely fill my gas tanks. It takes the first 8-9 gallons just fine but the last 3-4 takes forever. I must squeak in .1-.2 gallons at a time, meaning I must wait 10-15 seconds for the gas to settle in the tanks before adding more. The gas tank vent hose is in the correct location, I believe. No gas fumes in trunk. Gas tank sending unit and gauge are pretty accurate. When my patience holds and I get the tanks full, gauge shows 11.75 to 12 gallons on the gauge. Any ideas or suggestions as to why this might be happening and potential fix would be appreciated. Regards Joel Martin _______________________________________________ tigers at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/garywinblad at comcast.net _______________________________________________ tigers at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/jbsyv at yahoo.com _______________________________________________ tigers at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/coolvt at aol.com _______________________________________________ tigers at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/garywinblad at comcast.net -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From michaelrector at centurylink.net Thu Sep 21 12:11:29 2023 From: michaelrector at centurylink.net (michaelrector) Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2023 12:11:29 -0600 Subject: [Tigers] Gas tank vent hose In-Reply-To: <925019756.750198.1695307734390@connect.xfinity.com> Message-ID: ?Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone -------- Original message --------From: GARY WINBLAD Date: 9/21/23 11:35 AM (GMT-07:00) To: twotigers at verizon.net, twotigers--- via Tigers , M Lafayette , jbsyv at yahoo.com Subject: Re: [Tigers] Gas tank vent hose Kirk, Very interesting...? yes, not logical...? unless.. In googling I found an article that said Obama changed the rule that stations do not need the recovery nozzles anymore.? Any chance that they changed them in your area just at the time you fixed your leaks? I have thought of putting a vent valve in for use during fill ups. Gary ? On 09/20/2023 8:15 PM PDT twotigers--- via Tigers wrote: ? ? I had the same trouble as everybody else, and the only relief I could get was to break the recovery seal, also. This went on for decades. One day I smelled some gas fumes in the car. After eliminating the carb as the source I started looking behind the trunk panels. I found a crack in the vent tube and another crack in the filler neck. Fixed both of those. Went to gas up, stuck the nozzle in, put the automatic trip on, and was shocked that the tanks filled completely. This was about a year ago. Every fill up since, even at different gas stations, has had the same result. Goes totally against logic and critical thinking, because previously the only way to get gas in was to break the seal. Now, with no way for air to enter the system, it fills up completely without any fuss. Go figure! ? Kirk ? ? ? ? From: Tigers On Behalf Of M Lafayette via TigersSent: Wednesday, September 20, 2023 2:31 PMTo: jbsyv at yahoo.com; tigers at autox.team.netSubject: Re: [Tigers] Gas tank vent hose ? Seems like a few years back someone was advertising a device to put into the tank opening that supposedly solved this problem. In a message dated 9/20/2023 4:07:50 PM Eastern Daylight Time, tigers at autox.team.net writes: ? Like Gary, I?m in CA and I hold back the vapor recovery sleeve. I angle the nozzle down into the filler pipe and that helps. Still a PITA though. Never tried the upside down method. ? On Sep 20, 2023, at 8:07 AM, GARY WINBLAD wrote: ? ? You must not be in CA (or other state with the vapor recovery gas pumps). All 13 gallons take forever for me, so I never try to go more than 9 or so. Old cars don't have the on-board carbon canister system that is needed for the new pumps. So there is nothing you can do. When the nozzle is fully inserted and gas pumped in the pressure rises and the pump shuts off, always spilling gas down the side and onto the ground.? I have to hold the nozzle crooked so the bellows doesn't fully seat and just barely open the trigger, takes forever. Some guys hold the nozzle upside down (vertical) and it works better.? I just tried this again and it did seem to work better than years ago when I last tried it. Gary ? ? On 09/19/2023 2:16 PM PDT Greg Oliver wrote: ? ? It does that with my Tiger too. ? ? From: Tigers on behalf of Joel Martin via Tigers Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2023 1:53 PMTo: Tiger List Serve Subject: [Tigers] Gas tank vent hose ? I have a ongoing issue, more of testing my patience, in that it takes me at least 5 minutes to completely fill my gas tanks.? It takes the first 8-9 gallons just fine but the last 3-4 takes forever.? I must squeak in .1-.2 gallons at a time, meaning I must wait 10-15 seconds for the gas to settle in the tanks before adding more. ? The gas tank vent hose is in the correct location, I believe.? No gas fumes in trunk.? Gas tank sending unit and gauge are pretty accurate.? When my patience holds and I get the tanks full, gauge shows 11.75 to 12 gallons on the gauge. ? Any ideas or suggestions as to why this might be happening and potential fix would be appreciated. ? Regards ? Joel Martin _______________________________________________ tigers at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/garywinblad at comcast.net _______________________________________________tigers at autox.team.netDonate: http://www.team.net/donate.htmlArchive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archiveUnsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/jbsyv at yahoo.com _______________________________________________tigers at autox.team.netDonate: http://www.team.net/donate.htmlArchive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archiveUnsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/coolvt at aol.com _______________________________________________ tigers at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/garywinblad at comcast.net -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From garywinblad at comcast.net Thu Sep 21 12:15:04 2023 From: garywinblad at comcast.net (GARY WINBLAD) Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2023 14:15:04 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Tigers] Gas tank vent hose In-Reply-To: <000801d9ecb4$b789f380$269dda80$@verizon.net> References: <2123714687.2137502.1695156818680.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <2123714687.2137502.1695156818680@mail.yahoo.com> <2099832708.720086.1695222437824@connect.xfinity.com> <471796691.2453120.1695245436098@mail.yahoo.com> <001d01d9ec39$ea55e8d0$bf01ba70$@verizon.net> <925019756.750198.1695307734390@connect.xfinity.com> <000801d9ecb4$b789f380$269dda80$@verizon.net> Message-ID: <1841405012.758333.1695320104477@connect.xfinity.com> I know, I am in CA.. but maybe Kirk isn't? Also... Over the years, I have found some pumps will work better than others. I think it's just a matter of calibration because I would go back to the good pump later but then it became a bad pump! Here is the gadget I bought (effectively the same as the motorcycle one posted here earlier): https://www.advrider.com/f/threads/vapor-recovery-nozzle-tool-aka-gascard.647816/ I forget but seem to remember they changed the nozzle so it didn't have the ridge needed to clip the card thingy on.. I'll have to find it and try it again. Gary > On 09/21/2023 10:54 AM PDT twotigers at verizon.net wrote: > > > > Gary, > > > > California still has the recovery nozzles. > > > > From: GARY WINBLAD > Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2023 7:49 AM > To: twotigers at verizon.net; twotigers--- via Tigers ; M Lafayette ; jbsyv at yahoo.com > Subject: Re: [Tigers] Gas tank vent hose > > > > Kirk, > > Very interesting... yes, not logical... unless.. > > In googling I found an article that said Obama changed the rule that stations do not need > > the recovery nozzles anymore. Any chance that they changed them in your area just at > > the time you fixed your leaks? > > I have thought of putting a vent valve in for use during fill ups. > > Gary > > > > > > > On 09/20/2023 8:15 PM PDT twotigers--- via Tigers wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > I had the same trouble as everybody else, and the only relief I could get was to break the recovery seal, also. This went on for decades. One day I smelled some gas fumes in the car. After eliminating the carb as the source I started looking behind the trunk panels. I found a crack in the vent tube and another crack in the filler neck. Fixed both of those. Went to gas up, stuck the nozzle in, put the automatic trip on, and was shocked that the tanks filled completely. This was about a year ago Every fill up since, even at different gas stations, has had the same result. Goes totally against logic and critical thinking, because previously the only way to get gas in was to break the seal. Now, with no way for air to enter the system, it fills up completely without any fuss. Go figure! > > > > > > > > Kirk > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Tigers On Behalf Of M Lafayette via Tigers > > Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2023 2:31 PM > > To: jbsyv at yahoo.com mailto:jbsyv at yahoo.com; tigers at autox.team.net mailto:tigers at autox.team.net > > Subject: Re: [Tigers] Gas tank vent hose > > > > > > > > Seems like a few years back someone was advertising a device to put into the tank opening that supposedly solved this problem. > > > > > > In a message dated 9/20/2023 4:07:50 PM Eastern Daylight Time, tigers at autox.team.net mailto:tigers at autox.team.net writes: > > > > > > > > > > > > Like Gary, I?m in CA and I hold back the vapor recovery sleeve. I angle the nozzle down into the filler pipe and that helps. Still a PITA though. Never tried the upside down method. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sep 20, 2023, at 8:07 AM, GARY WINBLAD wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You must not be in CA (or other state with the vapor recovery gas pumps). > > > > > > All 13 gallons take forever for me, so I never try to go more than 9 or so. > > > > > > Old cars don't have the on-board carbon canister system that is needed for the new pumps. > > > > > > So there is nothing you can do. > > > > > > When the nozzle is fully inserted and gas pumped in the pressure rises and the pump shuts > > > > > > off, always spilling gas down the side and onto the ground. > > > > > > I have to hold the nozzle crooked so the bellows doesn't fully seat and just barely open the > > > > > > trigger, takes forever. > > > > > > Some guys hold the nozzle upside down (vertical) and it works better. I just tried this again > > > > > > and it did seem to work better than years ago when I last tried it. > > > > > > Gary > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 09/19/2023 2:16 PM PDT Greg Oliver wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It does that with my Tiger too. ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------- > > > > > > > > From: Tigers on behalf of Joel Martin via Tigers > > > > Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2023 1:53 PM > > > > To: Tiger List Serve > > > > Subject: [Tigers] Gas tank vent hose > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have a ongoing issue, more of testing my patience, in that it takes me at least 5 minutes to completely fill my gas tanks. It takes the first 8-9 gallons just fine but the last 3-4 takes forever. I must squeak in .1-.2 gallons at a time, meaning I must wait 10-15 seconds for the gas to settle in the tanks before adding more. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The gas tank vent hose is in the correct location, I believe. No gas fumes in trunk. Gas tank sending unit and gauge are pretty accurate. When my patience holds and I get the tanks full, gauge shows 11.75 to 12 gallons on the gauge. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Any ideas or suggestions as to why this might be happening and potential fix would be appreciated. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Joel Martin > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > > tigers at autox.team.net mailto:tigers at autox.team.net > > > > > > > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive > > > > > > > > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/garywinblad at comcast.net > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > tigers at autox.team.net mailto:tigers at autox.team.net > > > > > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive > > > > > > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/jbsyv at yahoo.com > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > tigers at autox.team.net mailto:tigers at autox.team.net > > > > > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive > > > > > > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/coolvt at aol.com > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > tigers at autox.team.net mailto:tigers at autox.team.net > > > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive > > > > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/garywinblad at comcast.net > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From garywinblad at comcast.net Thu Sep 21 14:01:48 2023 From: garywinblad at comcast.net (GARY WINBLAD) Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2023 16:01:48 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Tigers] Gas tank vent hose In-Reply-To: <185769283.2664936.1695313677614@mail.yahoo.com> References: <185769283.2664936.1695313677614@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1362973243.762215.1695326508102@connect.xfinity.com> Joel, AH ha. Us CA types jumped on this wrongly due to our own miserable gas fill problems! You had the problem that several (6-8?) gallons went in fine but then it slowed down (Like us recovery nozzle guys). Yours sounds exactly like a "vent line" problem. Some kind of clog. Normally the problem with that hose is it gets hard and cracks open allowing fumes into the interior. You are probably filling the right side tank fine(6 gallons) but the left side needs the vent line open so the pressure at the top is relieved to allow the gas to come up through the crossover tube behind the bumper. Gary > On 09/21/2023 9:27 AM PDT Joel Martin via Tigers wrote: > > > > Thank you all for the responses. The rubber is about 5 years old and with no fumes in car or trunk, it should be good. I will check routing of gas tank vent hose for any kinks and obstructions. As we live in NC, we have no vapor recovery sleeve gas nozzles. The nozzle key, I believe would not do anything to help. If no kinks or obstructions, from others having the same issue, I will have to check my impatience at the door. > > Joel > > On Thursday, September 21, 2023 at 02:08:02 AM EDT, tigers-request at autox.team.net wrote: > > > Send Tigers mailing list submissions to > tigers at autox.team.net mailto:tigers at autox.team.net > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > tigers-request at autox.team.net mailto:tigers-request at autox.team.net > > You can reach the person managing the list at > tigers-owner at autox.team.net mailto:tigers-owner at autox.team.net > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Tigers digest..." > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Gas tank vent hose (Mark Rense) > 2. Re: Gas tank vent hose (Will Seay) > 3. Re: Gas tank vent hose (twotigers at verizon.net) > This issue has plagued us motorcyclists for years. There is a simple nozzle key tool designed to hold the nozzle bellows back. > > Bugz > > https://www.aerostich.com/aluminum-gas-pump-nozzle-key.html > > On Wed, Sep 20, 2023 at 4:16 PM Jim B via Tigers wrote: > > > Like Gary, I?m in CA and I hold back the vapor recovery sleeve. I angle the nozzle down into the filler pipe and that helps. Still a PITA though. Never tried the upside down method. > > > I'm in VA and we don't have this problem. It seems to me that this issue came up some time ago and that someone recommended a collar/funnel device that you put into the filler. As I recall, the device was made to be used for motorcycles. If you have any biker friends maybe you could get a line on it. > > Will - 382001570 > Tigers at embarqmail.com mailto:Tigers at embarqmail.com > > On Wed, Sep 20, 2023 at 5:30?PM M Lafayette via Tigers wrote: > > > Seems like a few years back someone was advertising a device to put into the tank opening that supposedly solved this problem. > > > > In a message dated 9/20/2023 4:07:50 PM Eastern Daylight Time, tigers at autox.team.net mailto:tigers at autox.team.net writes: > > > > > > > Like Gary, I?m in CA and I hold back the vapor recovery sleeve. I angle the nozzle down into the filler pipe and that helps. Still a PITA though. Never tried the upside down method. > > > > > > > > > > On Sep 20, 2023, at 8:07 AM, GARY WINBLAD wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You must not be in CA (or other state with the vapor recovery gas pumps). > > > All 13 gallons take forever for me, so I never try to go more than 9 or so. > > > Old cars don't have the on-board carbon canister system that is needed for the new pumps. > > > So there is nothing you can do. > > > When the nozzle is fully inserted and gas pumped in the pressure rises and the pump shuts > > > off, always spilling gas down the side and onto the ground. > > > I have to hold the nozzle crooked so the bellows doesn't fully seat and just barely open the > > > trigger, takes forever. > > > Some guys hold the nozzle upside down (vertical) and it works better. I just tried this again > > > and it did seem to work better than years ago when I last tried it. > > > Gary > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 09/19/2023 2:16 PM PDT Greg Oliver wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > It does that with my Tiger too. ? > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------- > > > > From: Tigers on behalf of Joel Martin via Tigers > > > > Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2023 1:53 PM > > > > To: Tiger List Serve > > > > Subject: [Tigers] Gas tank vent hose > > > > > > > > I have a ongoing issue, more of testing my patience, in that it takes me at least 5 minutes to completely fill my gas tanks. It takes the first 8-9 gallons just fine but the last 3-4 takes forever. I must squeak in .1-.2 gallons at a time, meaning I must wait 10-15 seconds for the gas to settle in the tanks before adding more. > > > > > > > > The gas tank vent hose is in the correct location, I believe. No gas fumes in trunk. Gas tank sending unit and gauge are pretty accurate. When my patience holds and I get the tanks full, gauge shows 11.75 to 12 gallons on the gauge. > > > > > > > > Any ideas or suggestions as to why this might be happening and potential fix would be appreciated. > > > > > > > > Regards > > > > > > > > Joel Martin > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > > tigers at autox.team.net mailto:tigers at autox.team.net > > > > > > > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive > > > > > > > > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/garywinblad at comcast.net > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > tigers at autox.team.net mailto:tigers at autox.team.net > > > > > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive > > > > > > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/jbsyv at yahoo.com > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > tigers at autox.team.net mailto:tigers at autox.team.net > > > > > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive > > > > > > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/coolvt at aol.com > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > tigers at autox.team.net mailto:tigers at autox.team.net > > > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive > > > > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/tigers at embarqmail.com > > > > > > > > I had the same trouble as everybody else, and the only relief I could get was to break the recovery seal, also. This went on for decades. One day I smelled some gas fumes in the car. After eliminating the carb as the source I started looking behind the trunk panels. I found a crack in the vent tube and another crack in the filler neck. Fixed both of those. Went to gas up, stuck the nozzle in, put the automatic trip on, and was shocked that the tanks filled completely. This was about a year ago. Every fill up since, even at different gas stations, has had the same result. Goes totally against logic and critical thinking, because previously the only way to get gas in was to break the seal. Now, with no way for air to enter the system, it fills up completely without any fuss. Go figure! > > > > Kirk > > > > > > > > > > From: Tigers On Behalf Of M Lafayette via Tigers > Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2023 2:31 PM > To: jbsyv at yahoo.com; tigers at autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Tigers] Gas tank vent hose > > > > Seems like a few years back someone was advertising a device to put into the tank opening that supposedly solved this problem. > > > In a message dated 9/20/2023 4:07:50 PM Eastern Daylight Time, tigers at autox.team.net mailto:tigers at autox.team.net writes: > > > > > > > Like Gary, I?m in CA and I hold back the vapor recovery sleeve. I angle the nozzle down into the filler pipe and that helps. Still a PITA though. Never tried the upside down method. > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sep 20, 2023, at 8:07 AM, GARY WINBLAD wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You must not be in CA (or other state with the vapor recovery gas pumps). > > > > All 13 gallons take forever for me, so I never try to go more than 9 or so. > > > > Old cars don't have the on-board carbon canister system that is needed for the new pumps. > > > > So there is nothing you can do. > > > > When the nozzle is fully inserted and gas pumped in the pressure rises and the pump shuts > > > > off, always spilling gas down the side and onto the ground. > > > > I have to hold the nozzle crooked so the bellows doesn't fully seat and just barely open the > > > > trigger, takes forever. > > > > Some guys hold the nozzle upside down (vertical) and it works better. I just tried this again > > > > and it did seem to work better than years ago when I last tried it. > > > > Gary > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 09/19/2023 2:16 PM PDT Greg Oliver wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It does that with my Tiger too. ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------- > > > > > > From: Tigers on behalf of Joel Martin via Tigers > > > Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2023 1:53 PM > > > To: Tiger List Serve > > > Subject: [Tigers] Gas tank vent hose > > > > > > > > > > > > I have a ongoing issue, more of testing my patience, in that it takes me at least 5 minutes to completely fill my gas tanks. It takes the first 8-9 gallons just fine but the last 3-4 takes forever. I must squeak in .1-.2 gallons at a time, meaning I must wait 10-15 seconds for the gas to settle in the tanks before adding more. > > > > > > > > > > > > The gas tank vent hose is in the correct location, I believe. No gas fumes in trunk. Gas tank sending unit and gauge are pretty accurate. When my patience holds and I get the tanks full, gauge shows 11.75 to 12 gallons on the gauge. > > > > > > > > > > > > Any ideas or suggestions as to why this might be happening and potential fix would be appreciated. > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards > > > > > > > > > > > > Joel Martin > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > tigers at autox.team.net mailto:tigers at autox.team.net > > > > > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive > > > > > > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/garywinblad at comcast.net > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > tigers at autox.team.net mailto:tigers at autox.team.net > > > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive > > > > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/jbsyv at yahoo.com > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > tigers at autox.team.net mailto:tigers at autox.team.net > > > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive > > > > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/coolvt at aol.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Tigers mailing list > Tigers at autox.team.net mailto:Tigers at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive > _______________________________________________ > > tigers at autox.team.net > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/garywinblad at comcast.net > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From garywinblad at comcast.net Thu Sep 21 14:09:39 2023 From: garywinblad at comcast.net (GARY WINBLAD) Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2023 16:09:39 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Tigers] Gas tank vent hose In-Reply-To: <185769283.2664936.1695313677614@mail.yahoo.com> References: <185769283.2664936.1695313677614@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <335717388.762520.1695326979205@connect.xfinity.com> Joel, I think I have a vague recollection that there were some fill elbows(?) (between gas cap and right side tank) that had an obstruction in the molded on fitting for the vent hose (to the left tank). The hose and tanks and everything could be good and you would still have a problem if that fitting was obstructed, first place I would check. Gary > On 09/21/2023 9:27 AM PDT Joel Martin via Tigers wrote: > > > > Thank you all for the responses. The rubber is about 5 years old and with no fumes in car or trunk, it should be good. I will check routing of gas tank vent hose for any kinks and obstructions. As we live in NC, we have no vapor recovery sleeve gas nozzles. The nozzle key, I believe would not do anything to help. If no kinks or obstructions, from others having the same issue, I will have to check my impatience at the door. > > Joel > > On Thursday, September 21, 2023 at 02:08:02 AM EDT, tigers-request at autox.team.net wrote: > > > Send Tigers mailing list submissions to > tigers at autox.team.net mailto:tigers at autox.team.net > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > tigers-request at autox.team.net mailto:tigers-request at autox.team.net > > You can reach the person managing the list at > tigers-owner at autox.team.net mailto:tigers-owner at autox.team.net > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Tigers digest..." > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Gas tank vent hose (Mark Rense) > 2. Re: Gas tank vent hose (Will Seay) > 3. Re: Gas tank vent hose (twotigers at verizon.net) > This issue has plagued us motorcyclists for years. There is a simple nozzle key tool designed to hold the nozzle bellows back. > > Bugz > > https://www.aerostich.com/aluminum-gas-pump-nozzle-key.html > > On Wed, Sep 20, 2023 at 4:16 PM Jim B via Tigers wrote: > > > Like Gary, I?m in CA and I hold back the vapor recovery sleeve. I angle the nozzle down into the filler pipe and that helps. Still a PITA though. Never tried the upside down method. > > > I'm in VA and we don't have this problem. It seems to me that this issue came up some time ago and that someone recommended a collar/funnel device that you put into the filler. As I recall, the device was made to be used for motorcycles. If you have any biker friends maybe you could get a line on it. > > Will - 382001570 > Tigers at embarqmail.com mailto:Tigers at embarqmail.com > > On Wed, Sep 20, 2023 at 5:30?PM M Lafayette via Tigers wrote: > > > Seems like a few years back someone was advertising a device to put into the tank opening that supposedly solved this problem. > > > > In a message dated 9/20/2023 4:07:50 PM Eastern Daylight Time, tigers at autox.team.net mailto:tigers at autox.team.net writes: > > > > > > > Like Gary, I?m in CA and I hold back the vapor recovery sleeve. I angle the nozzle down into the filler pipe and that helps. Still a PITA though. Never tried the upside down method. > > > > > > > > > > On Sep 20, 2023, at 8:07 AM, GARY WINBLAD wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You must not be in CA (or other state with the vapor recovery gas pumps). > > > All 13 gallons take forever for me, so I never try to go more than 9 or so. > > > Old cars don't have the on-board carbon canister system that is needed for the new pumps. > > > So there is nothing you can do. > > > When the nozzle is fully inserted and gas pumped in the pressure rises and the pump shuts > > > off, always spilling gas down the side and onto the ground. > > > I have to hold the nozzle crooked so the bellows doesn't fully seat and just barely open the > > > trigger, takes forever. > > > Some guys hold the nozzle upside down (vertical) and it works better. I just tried this again > > > and it did seem to work better than years ago when I last tried it. > > > Gary > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 09/19/2023 2:16 PM PDT Greg Oliver wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > It does that with my Tiger too. ? > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------- > > > > From: Tigers on behalf of Joel Martin via Tigers > > > > Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2023 1:53 PM > > > > To: Tiger List Serve > > > > Subject: [Tigers] Gas tank vent hose > > > > > > > > I have a ongoing issue, more of testing my patience, in that it takes me at least 5 minutes to completely fill my gas tanks. It takes the first 8-9 gallons just fine but the last 3-4 takes forever. I must squeak in .1-.2 gallons at a time, meaning I must wait 10-15 seconds for the gas to settle in the tanks before adding more. > > > > > > > > The gas tank vent hose is in the correct location, I believe. No gas fumes in trunk. Gas tank sending unit and gauge are pretty accurate. When my patience holds and I get the tanks full, gauge shows 11.75 to 12 gallons on the gauge. > > > > > > > > Any ideas or suggestions as to why this might be happening and potential fix would be appreciated. > > > > > > > > Regards > > > > > > > > Joel Martin > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > > tigers at autox.team.net mailto:tigers at autox.team.net > > > > > > > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive > > > > > > > > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/garywinblad at comcast.net > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > tigers at autox.team.net mailto:tigers at autox.team.net > > > > > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive > > > > > > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/jbsyv at yahoo.com > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > tigers at autox.team.net mailto:tigers at autox.team.net > > > > > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive > > > > > > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/coolvt at aol.com > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > tigers at autox.team.net mailto:tigers at autox.team.net > > > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive > > > > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/tigers at embarqmail.com > > > > > > > > I had the same trouble as everybody else, and the only relief I could get was to break the recovery seal, also. This went on for decades. One day I smelled some gas fumes in the car. After eliminating the carb as the source I started looking behind the trunk panels. I found a crack in the vent tube and another crack in the filler neck. Fixed both of those. Went to gas up, stuck the nozzle in, put the automatic trip on, and was shocked that the tanks filled completely. This was about a year ago. Every fill up since, even at different gas stations, has had the same result. Goes totally against logic and critical thinking, because previously the only way to get gas in was to break the seal. Now, with no way for air to enter the system, it fills up completely without any fuss. Go figure! > > > > Kirk > > > > > > > > > > From: Tigers On Behalf Of M Lafayette via Tigers > Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2023 2:31 PM > To: jbsyv at yahoo.com; tigers at autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Tigers] Gas tank vent hose > > > > Seems like a few years back someone was advertising a device to put into the tank opening that supposedly solved this problem. > > > In a message dated 9/20/2023 4:07:50 PM Eastern Daylight Time, tigers at autox.team.net mailto:tigers at autox.team.net writes: > > > > > > > Like Gary, I?m in CA and I hold back the vapor recovery sleeve. I angle the nozzle down into the filler pipe and that helps. Still a PITA though. Never tried the upside down method. > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sep 20, 2023, at 8:07 AM, GARY WINBLAD wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You must not be in CA (or other state with the vapor recovery gas pumps). > > > > All 13 gallons take forever for me, so I never try to go more than 9 or so. > > > > Old cars don't have the on-board carbon canister system that is needed for the new pumps. > > > > So there is nothing you can do. > > > > When the nozzle is fully inserted and gas pumped in the pressure rises and the pump shuts > > > > off, always spilling gas down the side and onto the ground. > > > > I have to hold the nozzle crooked so the bellows doesn't fully seat and just barely open the > > > > trigger, takes forever. > > > > Some guys hold the nozzle upside down (vertical) and it works better. I just tried this again > > > > and it did seem to work better than years ago when I last tried it. > > > > Gary > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 09/19/2023 2:16 PM PDT Greg Oliver wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It does that with my Tiger too. ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------- > > > > > > From: Tigers on behalf of Joel Martin via Tigers > > > Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2023 1:53 PM > > > To: Tiger List Serve > > > Subject: [Tigers] Gas tank vent hose > > > > > > > > > > > > I have a ongoing issue, more of testing my patience, in that it takes me at least 5 minutes to completely fill my gas tanks. It takes the first 8-9 gallons just fine but the last 3-4 takes forever. I must squeak in .1-.2 gallons at a time, meaning I must wait 10-15 seconds for the gas to settle in the tanks before adding more. > > > > > > > > > > > > The gas tank vent hose is in the correct location, I believe. No gas fumes in trunk. Gas tank sending unit and gauge are pretty accurate. When my patience holds and I get the tanks full, gauge shows 11.75 to 12 gallons on the gauge. > > > > > > > > > > > > Any ideas or suggestions as to why this might be happening and potential fix would be appreciated. > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards > > > > > > > > > > > > Joel Martin > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > tigers at autox.team.net mailto:tigers at autox.team.net > > > > > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive > > > > > > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/garywinblad at comcast.net > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > tigers at autox.team.net mailto:tigers at autox.team.net > > > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive > > > > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/jbsyv at yahoo.com > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > tigers at autox.team.net mailto:tigers at autox.team.net > > > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive > > > > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/coolvt at aol.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Tigers mailing list > Tigers at autox.team.net mailto:Tigers at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive > _______________________________________________ > > tigers at autox.team.net > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/garywinblad at comcast.net > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wjtwgoodman at aol.com Fri Sep 22 07:02:01 2023 From: wjtwgoodman at aol.com (Warren Goodman) Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2023 13:02:01 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Tigers] Tigers Digest, Vol 16, Issue 214 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <810291446.1262400.1695387721918@mail.yahoo.com> The cursed Hayes device vapor recovery worked best on the bent neck of the 64 Falcon with a extension hose dropped in the tank the bellows pulled back and a lower discharge level.? The same hose works wonders with the same slower fill rate and the when it's full you can have back splash.? Travis C. made a neck adapter the helped as it had a hole to allow the back air? pressure to escape. But the faster you go the more you vaporize the fuel . Fast filling? is kinda like paying twice these days.? Today's fuel discolors paint so if you leave no expansion room in the tank park in the sun beware as fuel pushes easily past the cork or any combination of added gaskets.? As others have commented always had the problem with motorcycle tanks even have it with my 89 NX Honda.? On Thursday, September 21, 2023 at 04:56:44 PM PDT, wrote: Send Tigers mailing list submissions to ??? tigers at autox.team.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit ??? http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to ??? tigers-request at autox.team.net You can reach the person managing the list at ??? tigers-owner at autox.team.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Tigers digest..." Today's Topics: ? 1. Re: Gas tank vent hose (GARY WINBLAD) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2023 16:09:39 -0400 (EDT) From: GARY WINBLAD To: Joel Martin , Joel Martin via Tigers ??? Subject: Re: [Tigers] Gas tank vent hose Message-ID: <335717388.762520.1695326979205 at connect.xfinity.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Joel, I think I have a vague recollection that there were some fill elbows(?) (between gas cap and right side tank) that had an obstruction in the molded on fitting for the vent hose (to the left tank).? The hose and tanks and everything could be good and you would still have a problem if that fitting was obstructed, first place I would check. Gary > On 09/21/2023 9:27 AM PDT Joel Martin via Tigers wrote: >? >? >? > Thank you all for the responses.? The rubber is about 5 years old and with no fumes in car or trunk, it should be good.? I will check routing of gas tank vent hose for any kinks and obstructions. As we live in NC, we have no vapor recovery sleeve gas nozzles. The nozzle key, I believe would not do anything to help.? If no kinks or obstructions, from others having the same issue, I will have to check my impatience at the door. >? > Joel >? > On Thursday, September 21, 2023 at 02:08:02 AM EDT, tigers-request at autox.team.net wrote: >? >? > Send Tigers mailing list submissions to >? ? tigers at autox.team.net mailto:tigers at autox.team.net >? > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >? ? http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >? ? tigers-request at autox.team.net mailto:tigers-request at autox.team.net >? > You can reach the person managing the list at >? ? tigers-owner at autox.team.net mailto:tigers-owner at autox.team.net >? > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Tigers digest..." > Today's Topics: > >? 1. Re: Gas tank vent hose (Mark Rense) >? 2. Re: Gas tank vent hose (Will Seay) >? 3. Re: Gas tank vent hose (twotigers at verizon.net) > This issue has plagued us motorcyclists for years. There is a simple nozzle key tool designed to hold the nozzle bellows back. >? > Bugz >? > https://www.aerostich.com/aluminum-gas-pump-nozzle-key.html > > On Wed, Sep 20, 2023 at 4:16 PM Jim B via Tigers wrote: > > > Like Gary, I?m in CA and I hold back the vapor recovery sleeve. I angle the nozzle down into the filler pipe and that helps. Still a PITA though. Never tried the upside down method. > > > I'm in VA and we don't have this problem.? It seems to me that this issue came up some time ago and that someone recommended a collar/funnel device that you put into the filler.? As I recall, the device was made to be used for motorcycles.? If you have any biker friends maybe you could get a line on it. >? > Will - 382001570 > Tigers at embarqmail.com mailto:Tigers at embarqmail.com > > On Wed, Sep 20, 2023 at 5:30?PM M Lafayette via Tigers wrote: > > > Seems like a few years back someone was advertising a device to put into the tank opening that supposedly solved this problem. > > > > In a message dated 9/20/2023 4:07:50 PM Eastern Daylight Time, tigers at autox.team.net mailto:tigers at autox.team.net writes: > >? > > > > > Like Gary, I?m in CA and I hold back the vapor recovery sleeve. I angle the nozzle down into the filler pipe and that helps. Still a PITA though. Never tried the upside down method. > > > > > > > > > > On Sep 20, 2023, at 8:07 AM, GARY WINBLAD wrote: > > > > > > > >? > > > > > > > You must not be in CA (or other state with the vapor recovery gas pumps). > > > All 13 gallons take forever for me, so I never try to go more than 9 or so. > > > Old cars don't have the on-board carbon canister system that is needed for the new pumps. > > > So there is nothing you can do. > > > When the nozzle is fully inserted and gas pumped in the pressure rises and the pump shuts > > > off, always spilling gas down the side and onto the ground. > > > I have to hold the nozzle crooked so the bellows doesn't fully seat and just barely open the > > > trigger, takes forever. > > > Some guys hold the nozzle upside down (vertical) and it works better.? I just tried this again > > > and it did seem to work better than years ago when I last tried it. > > > Gary > > >? > > >? > > > > > > > On 09/19/2023 2:16 PM PDT Greg Oliver wrote: > > > >? > > > >? > > > > It does that with my Tiger too. ? > > > >? > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------- > > > > From: Tigers on behalf of Joel Martin via Tigers > > > > Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2023 1:53 PM > > > > To: Tiger List Serve > > > > Subject: [Tigers] Gas tank vent hose > > > >? > > > > I have a ongoing issue, more of testing my patience, in that it takes me at least 5 minutes to completely fill my gas tanks.? It takes the first 8-9 gallons just fine but the last 3-4 takes forever.? I must squeak in .1-.2 gallons at a time, meaning I must wait 10-15 seconds for the gas to settle in the tanks before adding more. > > > >? > > > > The gas tank vent hose is in the correct location, I believe.? No gas fumes in trunk.? Gas tank sending unit and gauge are pretty accurate.? When my patience holds and I get the tanks full, gauge shows 11.75 to 12 gallons on the gauge. > > > >? > > > > Any ideas or suggestions as to why this might be happening and potential fix would be appreciated. > > > >? > > > > Regards > > > >? > > > > Joel Martin > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > > tigers at autox.team.net mailto:tigers at autox.team.net > > > > > > > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive > > > > > > > > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/garywinblad at comcast.net > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > tigers at autox.team.net mailto:tigers at autox.team.net > > > > > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive > > > > > > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/jbsyv at yahoo.com > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > tigers at autox.team.net mailto:tigers at autox.team.net > > > > > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive > > > > > > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/coolvt at aol.com > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > tigers at autox.team.net mailto:tigers at autox.team.net > > > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive > > > > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/tigers at embarqmail.com > > > > > > > > I had the same trouble as everybody else, and the only relief I could get was to break the recovery seal, also. This went on for decades. One day I smelled some gas fumes in the car. After eliminating the carb as the source I started looking behind the trunk panels. I found a crack in the vent tube and another crack in the filler neck. Fixed both of those. Went to gas up, stuck the nozzle in, put the automatic trip on, and was shocked that the tanks filled completely. This was about a year ago. Every fill up since, even at different gas stations, has had the same result. Goes totally against logic and critical thinking, because previously the only way to get gas in was to break the seal. Now, with no way for air to enter the system, it fills up completely without any fuss. Go figure! > >? > > Kirk > >? > >? > >? > >? > > From: Tigers On Behalf Of M Lafayette via Tigers > Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2023 2:31 PM > To: jbsyv at yahoo.com; tigers at autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Tigers] Gas tank vent hose > >? > > Seems like a few years back someone was advertising a device to put into the tank opening that supposedly solved this problem. > > > In a message dated 9/20/2023 4:07:50 PM Eastern Daylight Time, tigers at autox.team.net mailto:tigers at autox.team.net writes: > >? > > > > > Like Gary, I?m in CA and I hold back the vapor recovery sleeve. I angle the nozzle down into the filler pipe and that helps. Still a PITA though. Never tried the upside down method. > > > >? > > > > > > > > On Sep 20, 2023, at 8:07 AM, GARY WINBLAD wrote: > > > > > >? > > > > > >? > > > > > > > You must not be in CA (or other state with the vapor recovery gas pumps). > > > > All 13 gallons take forever for me, so I never try to go more than 9 or so. > > > > Old cars don't have the on-board carbon canister system that is needed for the new pumps. > > > > So there is nothing you can do. > > > > When the nozzle is fully inserted and gas pumped in the pressure rises and the pump shuts > > > > off, always spilling gas down the side and onto the ground. > > > > I have to hold the nozzle crooked so the bellows doesn't fully seat and just barely open the > > > > trigger, takes forever. > > > > Some guys hold the nozzle upside down (vertical) and it works better.? I just tried this again > > > > and it did seem to work better than years ago when I last tried it. > > > > Gary > > > >? > > > >? > > > > > > > > On 09/19/2023 2:16 PM PDT Greg Oliver wrote: > > > > > >? > > > > > >? > > > > > > It does that with my Tiger too. ? > > > > > >? > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------- > > > > > > From: Tigers on behalf of Joel Martin via Tigers > > > Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2023 1:53 PM > > > To: Tiger List Serve > > > Subject: [Tigers] Gas tank vent hose > > > > > >? > > > > > > I have a ongoing issue, more of testing my patience, in that it takes me at least 5 minutes to completely fill my gas tanks.? It takes the first 8-9 gallons just fine but the last 3-4 takes forever.? I must squeak in .1-.2 gallons at a time, meaning I must wait 10-15 seconds for the gas to settle in the tanks before adding more. > > > > > >? > > > > > > The gas tank vent hose is in the correct location, I believe.? No gas fumes in trunk.? Gas tank sending unit and gauge are pretty accurate.? When my patience holds and I get the tanks full, gauge shows 11.75 to 12 gallons on the gauge. > > > > > >? > > > > > > Any ideas or suggestions as to why this might be happening and potential fix would be appreciated. > > > > > >? > > > > > > Regards > > > > > >? > > > > > > Joel Martin > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > tigers at autox.team.net mailto:tigers at autox.team.net > > > > > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive > > > > > > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/garywinblad at comcast.net > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > tigers at autox.team.net mailto:tigers at autox.team.net > > > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive > > > > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/jbsyv at yahoo.com > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > tigers at autox.team.net mailto:tigers at autox.team.net > > > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive > > > > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/coolvt at aol.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Tigers mailing list > Tigers at autox.team.net mailto:Tigers at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive > _______________________________________________ > > tigers at autox.team.net > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/garywinblad at comcast.net > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: ------------------------------ Subject: Digest Footer _______________________________________________ Tigers mailing list Tigers at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive ------------------------------ End of Tigers Digest, Vol 16, Issue 214 *************************************** -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobwanty at gmail.com Sat Sep 23 18:59:01 2023 From: bobwanty at gmail.com (Robert Wanty) Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2023 20:59:01 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Horn Wiring Message-ID: I am working on wiring the horns for the first time since my 15 year restore. I am working with the original wiring harness and horns. Starting at the horns there is one on each side with a jumper wire between the two horns, there are 2 purple wires leading to each horn, one wire on each side is hot and wired to the fuse box the second wire is not hot or grounded. I installed a new horn ring from SS and have one wire from the contact on the horn ring and a second wire for the circle contact off the signal switch, I think the wire for the circle contact should be hot but I don't seem to have a connector for it in the harness under the dash and nothing for the wire to the horn ring. It would seem to me that I should have a hot wire to the ring contact then a hot to the horns when the horn ring is pressed. but the wiring harness does not seem to follow that way of thinking. The wiring diagram is some help but as usual my limited knowledge on this will probably start a fire. Any help would be appreciated, I would rather not rewire the circuits so hopefully I can restore the Lucas system.to its original splendor. Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From atwittsend at verizon.net Sat Sep 23 21:45:02 2023 From: atwittsend at verizon.net (Tom Witt) Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2023 20:45:02 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Horn Wiring In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <546c17d0-442e-4c8c-b788-46ac6743dad3@verizon.net> I believe most horns have a relay and the 12v+ is already at said relay. When the horn ring makes contact it GROUNDS the relay (completing the circuit) and the relay contact points connect. That passes through the 12V+ to the horns. So, typically the horn ring simply grounds the relay to activate it. Sorry too late for me to check the manual for Tiger specifics but MOST cars function that way. ?Think of yourself standing at a light switch in the house. When someone presses you on the shoulder (connecting to ground) you and the switch act like the relay moving the switch to the on position. This then send power to the light (horn). When the person pressing on your shoulder releases you turn the switch off. Hope that helps. On 9/23/2023 5:59 PM, Robert Wanty wrote: > I am working on wiring the horns for the first time since my 15 year > restore. I am working with the original wiring harness and horns. > Starting at the horns there is one on? each side with a jumper wire > between the two horns, there are 2 purple wires leading to each horn, > one wire on each side is hot and wired to the fuse box the second wire > is not hot or grounded. I installed a new horn ring from SS and have > one wire from the contact on the horn ring and a second wire for the > circle contact off the signal switch, I think the wire for the circle > contact should be hot? but I don't seem to have a connector for it in > the harness under the dash and nothing for the wire to the horn ring. > It would seem to me that I should have a hot wire to the ring contact > then a hot to the horns when the horn ring is pressed. but the wiring > harness does not seem to follow?that way of thinking. > The wiring diagram is some help but as usual my limited knowledge on > this will probably start a fire. > Any help would be?appreciated, I would rather not rewire the circuits > so hopefully I can restore the Lucas system.to its > original splendor. > > > Bob > > > _______________________________________________ > > tigers at autox.team.net > > Donate:http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive:http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe:http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/atwittsend at verizon.net > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobwanty at gmail.com Sun Sep 24 06:21:57 2023 From: bobwanty at gmail.com (Bob Wanty) Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2023 08:21:57 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Horn wiring Message-ID: I have figured out the wiring except the 2 wires leading up to each horn, one hot and I think the to the horn ring Bob From srwick at hotmail.com Sun Sep 24 06:57:02 2023 From: srwick at hotmail.com (steve wick) Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2023 12:57:02 +0000 Subject: [Tigers] Horn Wiring In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: According to the wiring diagram, you do have hot wires at the horns coming from the fuse. The other wire at the horns will only be hot when it's connected to the horns. That hot wire then goes to the horn switch/button. The other side of the horn switch is a ground, which completes the circuit. If you have power at the fuse side wire of the horns, and don't have power on the other terminal, your horns are probably bad. There should be continuity between the contacts. Steve ________________________________ From: Tigers on behalf of Robert Wanty Sent: Saturday, September 23, 2023 5:59 PM To: tigers Subject: [Tigers] Horn Wiring I am working on wiring the horns for the first time since my 15 year restore. I am working with the original wiring harness and horns. Starting at the horns there is one on each side with a jumper wire between the two horns, there are 2 purple wires leading to each horn, one wire on each side is hot and wired to the fuse box the second wire is not hot or grounded. I installed a new horn ring from SS and have one wire from the contact on the horn ring and a second wire for the circle contact off the signal switch, I think the wire for the circle contact should be hot but I don't seem to have a connector for it in the harness under the dash and nothing for the wire to the horn ring. It would seem to me that I should have a hot wire to the ring contact then a hot to the horns when the horn ring is pressed. but the wiring harness does not seem to follow that way of thinking. The wiring diagram is some help but as usual my limited knowledge on this will probably start a fire. Any help would be appreciated, I would rather not rewire the circuits so hopefully I can restore the Lucas system.to its original splendor. Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rfraser at bluefrog.com Sun Sep 24 07:32:29 2023 From: rfraser at bluefrog.com (Ron Fraser) Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2023 09:32:29 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Horn wiring In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <000e01d9eeeb$92396320$b6ac2960$@bluefrog.com> Bob The Purple wire from the fuse is +12v all the time. The Purple/ Black wire goes to the horn ring - this is the ground side. No relay. Have you made sure the horns work? The horn ring can sometimes be fussy to adjust so it makes contact and ground correctly. You might want to ground the Purple/ Black wire to make sure it works or you might need to check continuity in the wire harness. Hope this helps Ron Fraser -----Original Message----- From: Tigers On Behalf Of Bob Wanty Sent: Sunday, September 24, 2023 8:22 AM To: Tiger Autox Subject: [Tigers] Horn wiring I have figured out the wiring except the 2 wires leading up to each horn, one hot and I think the to the horn ring Bob _______________________________________________ tigers at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/rfraser at bluefrog.com From tsmit at shaw.ca Sun Sep 24 07:39:53 2023 From: tsmit at shaw.ca (Theo Smit) Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2023 07:39:53 -0600 (MDT) Subject: [Tigers] Horn Wiring In-Reply-To: <546c17d0-442e-4c8c-b788-46ac6743dad3@verizon.net> References: <546c17d0-442e-4c8c-b788-46ac6743dad3@verizon.net> Message-ID: <1866246372.23043364.1695562793318.JavaMail.zimbra@cds218.dcs.int.inet> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jay.laifman at gmail.com Sun Sep 24 07:54:39 2023 From: jay.laifman at gmail.com (Jay Laifman) Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2023 06:54:39 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Horn wiring In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Have you thought about looking at the wiring diagram? http://www.tigersunited.com/resources/wsm/tt-images/MKIABIGwiring.jpg On Sun, Sep 24, 2023 at 6:26?AM Bob Wanty wrote: > I have figured out the wiring except the 2 wires leading up to each horn, > one hot and I think the to the horn ring > Bob > _______________________________________________ > > tigers at autox.team.net > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers > http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/jay.laifman at gmail.com > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tsmit at shaw.ca Sun Sep 24 08:00:27 2023 From: tsmit at shaw.ca (Theo Smit) Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2023 08:00:27 -0600 (MDT) Subject: [Tigers] Horn wiring In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <351718072.23083396.1695564027351.JavaMail.zimbra@cds218.dcs.int.inet> That is the way it should be. The hot wire connects to one horn terminal, the horn ring wire connects to the other terminal. Pushing the horn ring completes the electrical circuit by connecting the horn ring to ground through the steering column. If you find that the horns sound inconsistently, not very loudly, or that the under-dash horn wire gets hot, then you would benefit from wiring in a relay. This can be done with no externally visible changes so that it all looks factory, but it works. Theo > On Sep 24, 2023, at 7:16 AM, Bob Wanty wrote: > > ?I have figured out the wiring except the 2 wires leading up to each horn, one hot and I think the to the horn ring > Bob > _______________________________________________ > > tigers at autox.team.net > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/tsmit at shaw.ca > > From garywinblad at comcast.net Sun Sep 24 08:36:31 2023 From: garywinblad at comcast.net (GARY WINBLAD) Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2023 10:36:31 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Tigers] Horn Wiring In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1006222344.44413.1695566191465@connect.xfinity.com> Bob, You should find a Purple/Black wire in the harness at the steering column. This should measure hot(12V) because it connects to 12V through the horns. You ground this Purple/Black wire to make the horns activate. The horn button does the grounding. Gary > On 09/23/2023 5:59 PM PDT Robert Wanty wrote: > > > I am working on wiring the horns for the first time since my 15 year restore. I am working with the original wiring harness and horns. Starting at the horns there is one on each side with a jumper wire between the two horns, there are 2 purple wires leading to each horn, one wire on each side is hot and wired to the fuse box the second wire is not hot or grounded. I installed a new horn ring from SS and have one wire from the contact on the horn ring and a second wire for the circle contact off the signal switch, I think the wire for the circle contact should be hot but I don't seem to have a connector for it in the harness under the dash and nothing for the wire to the horn ring. > It would seem to me that I should have a hot wire to the ring contact then a hot to the horns when the horn ring is pressed. but the wiring harness does not seem to follow that way of thinking. > The wiring diagram is some help but as usual my limited knowledge on this will probably start a fire. > Any help would be appreciated, I would rather not rewire the circuits so hopefully I can restore the Lucashttp://system.to its original splendor. > > > Bob > > > > _______________________________________________ > > tigers at autox.team.net > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/garywinblad at comcast.net > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: MKIIBIGwiring.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 242406 bytes Desc: not available URL: From tsmit at shaw.ca Sun Sep 24 09:55:04 2023 From: tsmit at shaw.ca (Theo Smit) Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2023 09:55:04 -0600 (MDT) Subject: [Tigers] Horn Wiring In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <787775400.23395820.1695570904153.JavaMail.zimbra@cds218.dcs.int.inet> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobwanty at gmail.com Sun Sep 24 18:41:37 2023 From: bobwanty at gmail.com (Robert Wanty) Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2023 20:41:37 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Horn Wiring In-Reply-To: <1866246372.23043364.1695562793318.JavaMail.zimbra@cds218.dcs.int.inet> References: <546c17d0-442e-4c8c-b788-46ac6743dad3@verizon.net> <1866246372.23043364.1695562793318.JavaMail.zimbra@cds218.dcs.int.inet> Message-ID: Thanks for the responses. Everything is wired to the horns, they look original. There are 2 purple wires to each horn, one is hot from the fuse box the other wire goes to ground when the horn ring is pressed. When I plug the hot wire to the horn it works fine, even honks. So the horns must not be original since they are grounded to the frame. I still have 4 purple wires when I only have connections for two and the wiring diagram only shows two wires, one to each horn. So should I isolate the horn frame ground, plug the hot wire to the horn, use the existing jumper between the horns and connect the horn ring wire to the other horn? On Sun, Sep 24, 2023 at 1:50?PM Theo Smit wrote: > Correct except that Rootes (or Lucas) would never use a relay where they > could instead pass all the current through a finicky sliding contact. > > Bob, the horns, when properly adjusted, draw about three amps each. It > would be a good idea to wire in a cube type relay so that the ring contact > does not have to pass that much current. > If you like I can draw up a wiring diagram for that. > > Theo > > On Sep 23, 2023, at 10:52 PM, Tom Witt via Tigers > wrote: > > ? > > I believe most horns have a relay and the 12v+ is already at said relay. > When the horn ring makes contact it GROUNDS the relay (completing the > circuit) and the relay contact points connect. That passes through the 12V+ > to the horns. So, typically the horn ring simply grounds the relay to > activate it. Sorry too late for me to check the manual for Tiger specifics > but MOST cars function that way. > > Think of yourself standing at a light switch in the house. When someone > presses you on the shoulder (connecting to ground) you and the switch act > like the relay moving the switch to the on position. This then send power > to the light (horn). When the person pressing on your shoulder releases you > turn the switch off. Hope that helps. > > On 9/23/2023 5:59 PM, Robert Wanty wrote: > > I am working on wiring the horns for the first time since my 15 year > restore. I am working with the original wiring harness and horns. Starting > at the horns there is one on each side with a jumper wire between the two > horns, there are 2 purple wires leading to each horn, one wire on each side > is hot and wired to the fuse box the second wire is not hot or grounded. I > installed a new horn ring from SS and have one wire from the contact on the > horn ring and a second wire for the circle contact off the signal switch, I > think the wire for the circle contact should be hot but I don't seem to > have a connector for it in the harness under the dash and nothing for the > wire to the horn ring. > It would seem to me that I should have a hot wire to the ring contact then > a hot to the horns when the horn ring is pressed. but the wiring harness > does not seem to follow that way of thinking. > The wiring diagram is some help but as usual my limited knowledge on this > will probably start a fire. > Any help would be appreciated, I would rather not rewire the circuits so > hopefully I can restore the Lucas system.to its original splendor. > > > Bob > > > > > _______________________________________________ > tigers at autox.team.net > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/atwittsend at verizon.net > > _______________________________________________ > > tigers at autox.team.net > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers > http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/bobwanty at gmail.com > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tsmit at shaw.ca Sun Sep 24 19:45:21 2023 From: tsmit at shaw.ca (Theo Smit) Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2023 19:45:21 -0600 (MDT) Subject: [Tigers] Horn Wiring In-Reply-To: References: <546c17d0-442e-4c8c-b788-46ac6743dad3@verizon.net> <1866246372.23043364.1695562793318.JavaMail.zimbra@cds218.dcs.int.inet> Message-ID: <592167520.24779961.1695606321060.JavaMail.zimbra@shaw.ca> Hi Bob, The wiring diagram here: [ http://tigersunited.com/resources/wsm/tt-images/MKIABIGwiring.jpg | http://tigersunited.com/resources/wsm/tt-images/MKIABIGwiring.jpg ] shows two solid purple wires to the horns feeding 12 volts, and two purple with black stripe wires that are the horn ring connections. There is no separate jumper wire from one horn to the other; if your car has that then it was added by a previous owner. But, if the horns already start to sound when you connect just the hot side, then there is an internal short in at least one horn, which is not how it's intended to be. if you have an ohm-meter that can measure very low resistances then you can take measurements across the two horn terminals and from each terminal to the horn body (or the frame mount). That would help you isolate where the wiring problem is. This is a sketch of the high-tone horn. The low-tone horn has an L cast into the bell. The two terminals connect (through the wire coil and the points) to each other, but there should be no connection to the horn body itself. The way you're describing the operation of your horns, connecting one of the terminals to hot causes the horn to go, even if the other wire is not connected (or, without pushing the horn ring on the steering wheel). Do both horns work the same way (i.e. they go off when only the hot is connected) or does only one horn do that? If one horn works properly (connect the purple wire to one terminal, connect the purple-with-black-stripe wire to the other) then that horn is fine and it's the other one that has an internal short. It can probably be fixed by opening the horn up and figuring out where the short is. Theo From: "Bob Wanty" To: "Theo Smit" Cc: "Tom Witt" , "tigers" Sent: Sunday, September 24, 2023 6:41:37 PM Subject: Re: [Tigers] Horn Wiring Thanks for the responses. Everything is wired to the horns, they look original. There are 2 purple wires to each horn, one is hot from the fuse box the other wire goes to ground when the horn ring is pressed. When I plug the hot wire to the horn it works fine, even honks. So the horns must not be original since they are grounded to the frame. I still have 4 purple wires when I only have connections for two and the wiring diagram only shows two wires, one to each horn. So should I isolate the horn frame ground, plug the hot wire to the horn, use the existing jumper between the horns and connect the horn ring wire to the other horn? On Sun, Sep 24, 2023 at 1:50 PM Theo Smit < [ mailto:tsmit at shaw.ca | tsmit at shaw.ca ] > wrote: Correct except that Rootes (or Lucas) would never use a relay where they could instead pass all the current through a finicky sliding contact. Bob, the horns, when properly adjusted, draw about three amps each. It would be a good idea to wire in a cube type relay so that the ring contact does not have to pass that much current. If you like I can draw up a wiring diagram for that. Theo BQ_BEGIN On Sep 23, 2023, at 10:52 PM, Tom Witt via Tigers < [ mailto:tigers at autox.team.net | tigers at autox.team.net ] > wrote: BQ_BEGIN I believe most horns have a relay and the 12v+ is already at said relay. When the horn ring makes contact it GROUNDS the relay (completing the circuit) and the relay contact points connect. That passes through the 12V+ to the horns. So, typically the horn ring simply grounds the relay to activate it. Sorry too late for me to check the manual for Tiger specifics but MOST cars function that way. Think of yourself standing at a light switch in the house. When someone presses you on the shoulder (connecting to ground) you and the switch act like the relay moving the switch to the on position. This then send power to the light (horn). When the person pressing on your shoulder releases you turn the switch off. Hope that helps. On 9/23/2023 5:59 PM, Robert Wanty wrote: BQ_BEGIN I am working on wiring the horns for the first time since my 15 year restore. I am working with the original wiring harness and horns. Starting at the horns there is one on each side with a jumper wire between the two horns, there are 2 purple wires leading to each horn, one wire on each side is hot and wired to the fuse box the second wire is not hot or grounded. I installed a new horn ring from SS and have one wire from the contact on the horn ring and a second wire for the circle contact off the signal switch, I think the wire for the circle contact should be hot but I don't seem to have a connector for it in the harness under the dash and nothing for the wire to the horn ring. It would seem to me that I should have a hot wire to the ring contact then a hot to the horns when the horn ring is pressed. but the wiring harness does not seem to follow that way of thinking. The wiring diagram is some help but as usual my limited knowledge on this will probably start a fire. Any help would be appreciated, I would rather not rewire the circuits so hopefully I can restore the Lucas [ http://system.to/ | system.to ] its original splendor. Bob _______________________________________________ [ mailto:tigers at autox.team.net | tigers at autox.team.net ] Donate: [ http://www.team.net/donate.html | http://www.team.net/donate.html ] Archive: [ http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers | http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers ] [ http://autox.team.net/archive | http://autox.team.net/archive ] Unsubscribe: [ http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/atwittsend at verizon.net | http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/atwittsend at verizon.net ] BQ_END BQ_END _______________________________________________ [ mailto:tigers at autox.team.net | tigers at autox.team.net ] Donate: [ http://www.team.net/donate.html | http://www.team.net/donate.html ] Archive: [ http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers | http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers ] [ http://autox.team.net/archive | http://autox.team.net/archive ] Unsubscribe: [ http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/bobwanty at gmail.com | http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/bobwanty at gmail.com ] BQ_END -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Screenshot 2023-09-24 at 7.34.26 PM.png Type: image/png Size: 47919 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Screenshot 2023-09-24 at 7.38.18 PM.png Type: image/png Size: 46743 bytes Desc: not available URL: From atwittsend at verizon.net Sun Sep 24 20:04:42 2023 From: atwittsend at verizon.net (Tom Witt) Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2023 19:04:42 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Horn Wiring In-Reply-To: References: <546c17d0-442e-4c8c-b788-46ac6743dad3@verizon.net> <1866246372.23043364.1695562793318.JavaMail.zimbra@cds218.dcs.int.inet> Message-ID: Using a relay (as I had originally thought /might/ be there... but wasn't, and Theo recommends) would simplify the situation_if the horns are actually grounded already_ as you state. The already present 12v+ near the horn would become the relay input (30) and loop to provide 12V+ power to the relay coil (85). The ground-able horn contact would provide ground to the relay coil - (86) and complete the 12V+ circuit providing 12V+ power output (87) to the horns. The numbers refer to the typical relay designations. And, yes the 12V+ just daisy chains to the next horn also. So, the ground is constant at the horn. 12V+ is constant at the relay input and the coil +. Grounding the horn at the steering wheel ring will trigger the relay to close and send 12V+ to the horns. On 9/24/2023 5:41 PM, Robert Wanty wrote: > Thanks for the responses. > Everything is wired to the horns, they look original. There are 2 > purple wires to each horn, one is hot from the fuse box the other wire > goes to ground when the horn ring is pressed. When I plug the hot wire > to the? horn it works fine, even honks. So the horns must not be > original since they are grounded to the frame.? I still have 4 purple > wires when I only have connections for two and the wiring diagram only > shows two wires, one to each horn. > So should I isolate the horn frame ground, plug the hot wire to the > horn, use the existing jumper between the horns and connect the horn > ring wire to the other horn? > > On Sun, Sep 24, 2023 at 1:50?PM Theo Smit wrote: > > Correct except that Rootes (or Lucas) would never use a relay > where they could instead pass all the current through a finicky > sliding contact. > > Bob, the horns, when properly adjusted, draw about three amps > each. It would be a good idea to wire in a cube type relay so that > the ring contact does not have to pass that much current. > If you like I can draw up a wiring diagram for that. > > Theo >> On Sep 23, 2023, at 10:52 PM, Tom Witt via Tigers >> wrote: >> >> ? >> >> I believe most horns have a relay and the 12v+ is already at said >> relay. When the horn ring makes contact it GROUNDS the relay >> (completing the circuit) and the relay contact points connect. >> That passes through the 12V+ to the horns. So, typically the horn >> ring simply grounds the relay to activate it. Sorry too late for >> me to check the manual for Tiger specifics but MOST cars function >> that way. >> >> ?Think of yourself standing at a light switch in the house. When >> someone presses you on the shoulder (connecting to ground) you >> and the switch act like the relay moving the switch to the on >> position. This then send power to the light (horn). When the >> person pressing on your shoulder releases you turn the switch >> off. Hope that helps. >> >> >> On 9/23/2023 5:59 PM, Robert Wanty wrote: >>> I am working on wiring the horns for the first time since my 15 >>> year restore. I am working with the original wiring harness and >>> horns. Starting at the horns there is one on? each side with a >>> jumper wire between the two horns, there are 2 purple wires >>> leading to each horn, one wire on each side is hot? and wired to >>> the fuse box the second wire is not hot or grounded. I installed >>> a new horn ring from SS and have one wire from the contact on >>> the horn ring and a second wire for the circle contact off the >>> signal switch, I think the wire for the circle contact should be >>> hot? but I don't seem to have a connector for it in the harness >>> under the dash and nothing for the wire to the horn ring. >>> It would seem to me that I should have a hot wire to the ring >>> contact then a hot to the horns when the horn ring is pressed. >>> but the wiring harness does not seem to follow?that way of thinking. >>> The wiring diagram is some help but as usual my limited >>> knowledge on this will probably start a fire. >>> Any help would be?appreciated, I would rather not rewire the >>> circuits so hopefully I can restore the Lucas system.to >>> its original splendor. >>> >>> >>> Bob >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> >>> tigers at autox.team.net >>> >>> Donate:http://www.team.net/donate.html >>> Archive:http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive >>> >>> Unsubscribe:http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/atwittsend at verizon.net >>> >>> > _______________________________________________ > > tigers at autox.team.net > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers > http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/bobwanty at gmail.com > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: rYkgYNyp9otVntki.png Type: image/png Size: 252372 bytes Desc: not available URL: From bobwanty at gmail.com Sun Sep 24 21:08:14 2023 From: bobwanty at gmail.com (Bob Wanty) Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2023 23:08:14 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Horn Wiring In-Reply-To: <592167520.24779961.1695606321060.JavaMail.zimbra@shaw.ca> References: <592167520.24779961.1695606321060.JavaMail.zimbra@shaw.ca> Message-ID: My horns have a single terminal so I will get two terminal horns. The relay idea sounds good. Thanks for the help. Bob > On Sep 24, 2023, at 9:45 PM, Theo Smit wrote: > > ? > Hi Bob, > > The wiring diagram here: http://tigersunited.com/resources/wsm/tt-images/MKIABIGwiring.jpg shows two solid purple wires to the horns feeding 12 volts, and two purple with black stripe wires that are the horn ring connections. There is no separate jumper wire from one horn to the other; if your car has that then it was added by a previous owner. > > > But, if the horns already start to sound when you connect just the hot side, then there is an internal short in at least one horn, which is not how it's intended to be. if you have an ohm-meter that can measure very low resistances then you can take measurements across the two horn terminals and from each terminal to the horn body (or the frame mount). That would help you isolate where the wiring problem is. > > This is a sketch of the high-tone horn. The low-tone horn has an L cast into the bell. The two terminals connect (through the wire coil and the points) to each other, but there should be no connection to the horn body itself. The way you're describing the operation of your horns, connecting one of the terminals to hot causes the horn to go, even if the other wire is not connected (or, without pushing the horn ring on the steering wheel). > > Do both horns work the same way (i.e. they go off when only the hot is connected) or does only one horn do that? If one horn works properly (connect the purple wire to one terminal, connect the purple-with-black-stripe wire to the other) then that horn is fine and it's the other one that has an internal short. It can probably be fixed by opening the horn up and figuring out where the short is. > > Theo > > From: "Bob Wanty" > To: "Theo Smit" > Cc: "Tom Witt" , "tigers" > Sent: Sunday, September 24, 2023 6:41:37 PM > Subject: Re: [Tigers] Horn Wiring > > Thanks for the responses. > Everything is wired to the horns, they look original. There are 2 purple wires to each horn, one is hot from the fuse box the other wire goes to ground when the horn ring is pressed. When I plug the hot wire to the horn it works fine, even honks. So the horns must not be original since they are grounded to the frame. I still have 4 purple wires when I only have connections for two and the wiring diagram only shows two wires, one to each horn. > So should I isolate the horn frame ground, plug the hot wire to the horn, use the existing jumper between the horns and connect the horn ring wire to the other horn? > >> On Sun, Sep 24, 2023 at 1:50?PM Theo Smit wrote: >> >> Correct except that Rootes (or Lucas) would never use a relay where they could instead pass all the current through a finicky sliding contact. >> >> Bob, the horns, when properly adjusted, draw about three amps each. It would be a good idea to wire in a cube type relay so that the ring contact does not have to pass that much current. >> If you like I can draw up a wiring diagram for that. >> >> Theo >> On Sep 23, 2023, at 10:52 PM, Tom Witt via Tigers wrote: >> >> I believe most horns have a relay and the 12v+ is already at said relay. When the horn ring makes contact it GROUNDS the relay (completing the circuit) and the relay contact points connect. That passes through the 12V+ to the horns. So, typically the horn ring simply grounds the relay to activate it. Sorry too late for me to check the manual for Tiger specifics but MOST cars function that way. >> >> Think of yourself standing at a light switch in the house. When someone presses you on the shoulder (connecting to ground) you and the switch act like the relay moving the switch to the on position. This then send power to the light (horn). When the person pressing on your shoulder releases you turn the switch off. Hope that helps. >> >> >> On 9/23/2023 5:59 PM, Robert Wanty wrote: >> I am working on wiring the horns for the first time since my 15 year restore. I am working with the original wiring harness and horns. Starting at the horns there is one on each side with a jumper wire between the two horns, there are 2 purple wires leading to each horn, one wire on each side is hot and wired to the fuse box the second wire is not hot or grounded. I installed a new horn ring from SS and have one wire from the contact on the horn ring and a second wire for the circle contact off the signal switch, I think the wire for the circle contact should be hot but I don't seem to have a connector for it in the harness under the dash and nothing for the wire to the horn ring. >> It would seem to me that I should have a hot wire to the ring contact then a hot to the horns when the horn ring is pressed. but the wiring harness does not seem to follow that way of thinking. >> The wiring diagram is some help but as usual my limited knowledge on this will probably start a fire. >> Any help would be appreciated, I would rather not rewire the circuits so hopefully I can restore the Lucas system.to its original splendor. >> >> >> Bob >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> tigers at autox.team.net >> >> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive >> >> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/atwittsend at verizon.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> tigers at autox.team.net >> >> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive >> >> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/bobwanty at gmail.com >> >> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From garywinblad at comcast.net Mon Sep 25 08:46:03 2023 From: garywinblad at comcast.net (GARY WINBLAD) Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2023 10:46:03 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Tigers] Horn Wiring In-Reply-To: References: <592167520.24779961.1695606321060.JavaMail.zimbra@shaw.ca> Message-ID: <1413091204.64085.1695653163834@connect.xfinity.com> Most all aftermarket horns have only one terminal or have 2 terminals that are both 12V. There was only one brand that Paul Reisentz found to use.. I wish I could remember. I think it was SPAL (the fan guys) but googling I can't find them. I remember because I dissected a defective original horn for him. Unlike Theo, I couldn't see any way to fix that one. Bob, you will probably need to look for some original horns (that still work) or add a relay for the fans you already have. Gary W. > On 09/24/2023 8:08 PM PDT Bob Wanty wrote: > > > > My horns have a single terminal so I will get two terminal horns. The relay idea sounds good. > Thanks for the help. > Bob > > > > On Sep 24, 2023, at 9:45 PM, Theo Smit wrote: > > > > > > > Hi Bob, > > > > The wiring diagram here: http://tigersunited.com/resources/wsm/tt-images/MKIABIGwiring.jpg shows two solid purple wires to the horns feeding 12 volts, and two purple with black stripe wires that are the horn ring connections. There is no separate jumper wire from one horn to the other; if your car has that then it was added by a previous owner. > > > > > > But, if the horns already start to sound when you connect just the hot side, then there is an internal short in at least one horn, which is not how it's intended to be. if you have an ohm-meter that can measure very low resistances then you can take measurements across the two horn terminals and from each terminal to the horn body (or the frame mount). That would help you isolate where the wiring problem is. > > > > This is a sketch of the high-tone horn. The low-tone horn has an L cast into the bell. The two terminals connect (through the wire coil and the points) to each other, but there should be no connection to the horn body itself. The way you're describing the operation of your horns, connecting one of the terminals to hot causes the horn to go, even if the other wire is not connected (or, without pushing the horn ring on the steering wheel). > > > > Do both horns work the same way (i.e. they go off when only the hot is connected) or does only one horn do that? If one horn works properly (connect the purple wire to one terminal, connect the purple-with-black-stripe wire to the other) then that horn is fine and it's the other one that has an internal short. It can probably be fixed by opening the horn up and figuring out where the short is. > > > > Theo > > > > > > --------------------------------------------- > > From: "Bob Wanty" > > To: "Theo Smit" > > Cc: "Tom Witt" , "tigers" > > Sent: Sunday, September 24, 2023 6:41:37 PM > > Subject: Re: [Tigers] Horn Wiring > > > > Thanks for the responses. > > Everything is wired to the horns, they look original. There are 2 purple wires to each horn, one is hot from the fuse box the other wire goes to ground when the horn ring is pressed. When I plug the hot wire to the horn it works fine, even honks. So the horns must not be original since they are grounded to the frame. I still have 4 purple wires when I only have connections for two and the wiring diagram only shows two wires, one to each horn. > > So should I isolate the horn frame ground, plug the hot wire to the horn, use the existing jumper between the horns and connect the horn ring wire to the other horn? > > > > On Sun, Sep 24, 2023 at 1:50?PM Theo Smit wrote: > > > > > > > > Correct except that Rootes (or Lucas) would never use a relay where they could instead pass all the current through a finicky sliding contact. > > > > > > Bob, the horns, when properly adjusted, draw about three amps each. It would be a good idea to wire in a cube type relay so that the ring contact does not have to pass that much current. > > > If you like I can draw up a wiring diagram for that. > > > > > > Theo > > > > > > > On Sep 23, 2023, at 10:52 PM, Tom Witt via Tigers wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I believe most horns have a relay and the 12v+ is already at said relay. When the horn ring makes contact it GROUNDS the relay (completing the circuit) and the relay contact points connect. That passes through the 12V+ to the horns. So, typically the horn ring simply grounds the relay to activate it. Sorry too late for me to check the manual for Tiger specifics but MOST cars function that way. > > > > > > > > Think of yourself standing at a light switch in the house. When someone presses you on the shoulder (connecting to ground) you and the switch act like the relay moving the switch to the on position. This then send power to the light (horn). When the person pressing on your shoulder releases you turn the switch off. Hope that helps. > > > > > > > > > > > > On 9/23/2023 5:59 PM, Robert Wanty wrote: > > > > > > > > > I am working on wiring the horns for the first time since my 15 year restore. I am working with the original wiring harness and horns. Starting at the horns there is one on each side with a jumper wire between the two horns, there are 2 purple wires leading to each horn, one wire on each side is hot and wired to the fuse box the second wire is not hot or grounded. I installed a new horn ring from SS and have one wire from the contact on the horn ring and a second wire for the circle contact off the signal switch, I think the wire for the circle contact should be hot but I don't seem to have a connector for it in the harness under the dash and nothing for the wire to the horn ring. > > > > > It would seem to me that I should have a hot wire to the ring contact then a hot to the horns when the horn ring is pressed. but the wiring harness does not seem to follow that way of thinking. > > > > > The wiring diagram is some help but as usual my limited knowledge on this will probably start a fire. > > > > > Any help would be appreciated, I would rather not rewire the circuits so hopefully I can restore the Lucashttp://system.to its original splendor. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bob > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > > > > tigers at autox.team.net mailto:tigers at autox.team.net > > > > > > > > > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > > > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive > > > > > > > > > > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/atwittsend at verizon.net > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > tigers at autox.team.net mailto:tigers at autox.team.net > > > > > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive > > > > > > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/bobwanty at gmail.com > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > tigers at autox.team.net > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/garywinblad at comcast.net > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jbbrown1980 at gmail.com Mon Sep 25 14:48:00 2023 From: jbbrown1980 at gmail.com (Joe Brown) Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2023 15:48:00 -0500 Subject: [Tigers] Horn Wiring In-Reply-To: <1413091204.64085.1695653163834@connect.xfinity.com> References: <592167520.24779961.1695606321060.JavaMail.zimbra@shaw.ca> <1413091204.64085.1695653163834@connect.xfinity.com> Message-ID: I attempted to repair my original horns but the wiring inside was crumbling. I saved them for a future project. What I installed in my car was a pair of Hella dual trumpet horns. You can see them at https://www.summitracing.com/parts/hla-007424801. They come with a relay and they mount up in the original locations with the original wiring. I didn't use the relay but I might go back and add it. I tested them before I installed them and they were really loud but they didn't seem to be as loud after I installed them. So I'm guessing that if I rewire them and use the relay I can get more current to them and have a louder sound. Have Fun, Joe Brown On Mon, Sep 25, 2023 at 3:21?PM GARY WINBLAD wrote: > Most all aftermarket horns have only one terminal or have 2 terminals that > are both 12V. > There was only one brand that Paul Reisentz found to use.. I wish I could > remember. > I think it was SPAL (the fan guys) but googling I can't find them. > > I remember because I dissected a defective original horn for him. Unlike > Theo, I couldn't > see any way to fix that one. > > Bob, you will probably need to look for some original horns (that still > work) or add a relay for the > fans you already have. > Gary W. > > > > On 09/24/2023 8:08 PM PDT Bob Wanty wrote: > > > > My horns have a single terminal so I will get two terminal horns. The > relay idea sounds good. > Thanks for the help. > Bob > > On Sep 24, 2023, at 9:45 PM, Theo Smit wrote: > > Hi Bob, > > The wiring diagram here: > http://tigersunited.com/resources/wsm/tt-images/MKIABIGwiring.jpg shows > two solid purple wires to the horns feeding 12 volts, and two purple with > black stripe wires that are the horn ring connections. There is no separate > jumper wire from one horn to the other; if your car has that then it was > added by a previous owner. > > > But, if the horns already start to sound when you connect just the hot > side, then there is an internal short in at least one horn, which is not > how it's intended to be. if you have an ohm-meter that can measure very low > resistances then you can take measurements across the two horn terminals > and from each terminal to the horn body (or the frame mount). That would > help you isolate where the wiring problem is. > > This is a sketch of the high-tone horn. The low-tone horn has an L cast > into the bell. The two terminals connect (through the wire coil and the > points) to each other, but there should be no connection to the horn body > itself. The way you're describing the operation of your horns, connecting > one of the terminals to hot causes the horn to go, even if the other wire > is not connected (or, without pushing the horn ring on the steering > wheel). > > Do both horns work the same way (i.e. they go off when only the hot is > connected) or does only one horn do that? If one horn works properly > (connect the purple wire to one terminal, connect the > purple-with-black-stripe wire to the other) then that horn is fine and it's > the other one that has an internal short. It can probably be fixed by > opening the horn up and figuring out where the short is. > > Theo > > ------------------------------ > *From: *"Bob Wanty" > *To: *"Theo Smit" > *Cc: *"Tom Witt" , "tigers" > > *Sent: *Sunday, September 24, 2023 6:41:37 PM > *Subject: *Re: [Tigers] Horn Wiring > > Thanks for the responses. > Everything is wired to the horns, they look original. There are 2 purple > wires to each horn, one is hot from the fuse box the other wire goes to > ground when the horn ring is pressed. When I plug the hot wire to the horn > it works fine, even honks. So the horns must not be original since they are > grounded to the frame. I still have 4 purple wires when I only have > connections for two and the wiring diagram only shows two wires, one to > each horn. > So should I isolate the horn frame ground, plug the hot wire to the horn, > use the existing jumper between the horns and connect the horn ring wire to > the other horn? > > On Sun, Sep 24, 2023 at 1:50?PM Theo Smit wrote: > > > Correct except that Rootes (or Lucas) would never use a relay where they > could instead pass all the current through a finicky sliding contact. > > Bob, the horns, when properly adjusted, draw about three amps each. It > would be a good idea to wire in a cube type relay so that the ring contact > does not have to pass that much current. > If you like I can draw up a wiring diagram for that. > > Theo > > On Sep 23, 2023, at 10:52 PM, Tom Witt via Tigers > wrote: > > I believe most horns have a relay and the 12v+ is already at said relay. > When the horn ring makes contact it GROUNDS the relay (completing the > circuit) and the relay contact points connect. That passes through the 12V+ > to the horns. So, typically the horn ring simply grounds the relay to > activate it. Sorry too late for me to check the manual for Tiger specifics > but MOST cars function that way. > > Think of yourself standing at a light switch in the house. When someone > presses you on the shoulder (connecting to ground) you and the switch act > like the relay moving the switch to the on position. This then send power > to the light (horn). When the person pressing on your shoulder releases you > turn the switch off. Hope that helps. > > On 9/23/2023 5:59 PM, Robert Wanty wrote: > > I am working on wiring the horns for the first time since my 15 year > restore. I am working with the original wiring harness and horns. Starting > at the horns there is one on each side with a jumper wire between the two > horns, there are 2 purple wires leading to each horn, one wire on each side > is hot and wired to the fuse box the second wire is not hot or grounded. I > installed a new horn ring from SS and have one wire from the contact on the > horn ring and a second wire for the circle contact off the signal switch, I > think the wire for the circle contact should be hot but I don't seem to > have a connector for it in the harness under the dash and nothing for the > wire to the horn ring. > It would seem to me that I should have a hot wire to the ring contact then > a hot to the horns when the horn ring is pressed. but the wiring harness > does not seem to follow that way of thinking. > The wiring diagram is some help but as usual my limited knowledge on this > will probably start a fire. > Any help would be appreciated, I would rather not rewire the circuits so > hopefully I can restore the Lucas system.to its original splendor. > > > Bob > > > > > _______________________________________________ > tigers at autox.team.net > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/atwittsend at verizon.net > > _______________________________________________ > > tigers at autox.team.net > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers > http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/bobwanty at gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > > tigers at autox.team.net > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers > http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/garywinblad at comcast.net > > > _______________________________________________ > > tigers at autox.team.net > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers > http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/jbbrown1980 at gmail.com > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From aballard at ix.netcom.com Mon Sep 25 15:09:41 2023 From: aballard at ix.netcom.com (Allan Ballard) Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2023 17:09:41 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Horn Wiring In-Reply-To: <1413091204.64085.1695653163834@connect.xfinity.com> References: <1413091204.64085.1695653163834@connect.xfinity.com> Message-ID: <31803EA8-9378-444E-AFE2-E55E2A64D18E@ix.netcom.com> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobwanty at gmail.com Mon Sep 25 15:33:19 2023 From: bobwanty at gmail.com (Bob Wanty) Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2023 17:33:19 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Horn Wiring In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <40BE7BF1-DD58-4ED3-B103-61B9FA8CF33E@gmail.com> I found the original horns in a box but they did not work. I might give the Hellas a try > On Sep 25, 2023, at 4:48 PM, Joe Brown wrote: > > ? > I attempted to repair my original horns but the wiring inside was crumbling. I saved them for a future project. What I installed in my car was a pair of Hella dual trumpet horns. You can see them at https://www.summitracing.com/parts/hla-007424801. They come with a relay and they mount up in the original locations with the original wiring. I didn't use the relay but I might go back and add it. I tested them before I installed them and they were really loud but they didn't seem to be as loud after I installed them. So I'm guessing that if I rewire them and use the relay I can get more current to them and have a louder sound. > > Have Fun, > Joe Brown > >> On Mon, Sep 25, 2023 at 3:21?PM GARY WINBLAD wrote: >> Most all aftermarket horns have only one terminal or have 2 terminals that are both 12V. >> There was only one brand that Paul Reisentz found to use.. I wish I could remember. >> I think it was SPAL (the fan guys) but googling I can't find them. >> >> I remember because I dissected a defective original horn for him. Unlike Theo, I couldn't >> see any way to fix that one. >> >> Bob, you will probably need to look for some original horns (that still work) or add a relay for the >> fans you already have. >> Gary W. >> >> >>> On 09/24/2023 8:08 PM PDT Bob Wanty wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> My horns have a single terminal so I will get two terminal horns. The relay idea sounds good. >>> Thanks for the help. >>> Bob >>> >>>> On Sep 24, 2023, at 9:45 PM, Theo Smit wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi Bob, >>>> >>>> The wiring diagram here: http://tigersunited.com/resources/wsm/tt-images/MKIABIGwiring.jpg shows two solid purple wires to the horns feeding 12 volts, and two purple with black stripe wires that are the horn ring connections. There is no separate jumper wire from one horn to the other; if your car has that then it was added by a previous owner. >>>> >>>> >>>> But, if the horns already start to sound when you connect just the hot side, then there is an internal short in at least one horn, which is not how it's intended to be. if you have an ohm-meter that can measure very low resistances then you can take measurements across the two horn terminals and from each terminal to the horn body (or the frame mount). That would help you isolate where the wiring problem is. >>>> >>>> This is a sketch of the high-tone horn. The low-tone horn has an L cast into the bell. The two terminals connect (through the wire coil and the points) to each other, but there should be no connection to the horn body itself. The way you're describing the operation of your horns, connecting one of the terminals to hot causes the horn to go, even if the other wire is not connected (or, without pushing the horn ring on the steering wheel). >>>> >>>> Do both horns work the same way (i.e. they go off when only the hot is connected) or does only one horn do that? If one horn works properly (connect the purple wire to one terminal, connect the purple-with-black-stripe wire to the other) then that horn is fine and it's the other one that has an internal short. It can probably be fixed by opening the horn up and figuring out where the short is. >>>> >>>> Theo >>>> >>>> From: "Bob Wanty" >>>> To: "Theo Smit" >>>> Cc: "Tom Witt" , "tigers" >>>> Sent: Sunday, September 24, 2023 6:41:37 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [Tigers] Horn Wiring >>>> >>>> Thanks for the responses. >>>> Everything is wired to the horns, they look original. There are 2 purple wires to each horn, one is hot from the fuse box the other wire goes to ground when the horn ring is pressed. When I plug the hot wire to the horn it works fine, even honks. So the horns must not be original since they are grounded to the frame. I still have 4 purple wires when I only have connections for two and the wiring diagram only shows two wires, one to each horn. >>>> So should I isolate the horn frame ground, plug the hot wire to the horn, use the existing jumper between the horns and connect the horn ring wire to the other horn? >>>> >>>> On Sun, Sep 24, 2023 at 1:50?PM Theo Smit wrote: >>>> >>>> Correct except that Rootes (or Lucas) would never use a relay where they could instead pass all the current through a finicky sliding contact. >>>> >>>> Bob, the horns, when properly adjusted, draw about three amps each. It would be a good idea to wire in a cube type relay so that the ring contact does not have to pass that much current. >>>> If you like I can draw up a wiring diagram for that. >>>> >>>> Theo >>>> On Sep 23, 2023, at 10:52 PM, Tom Witt via Tigers wrote: >>>> >>>> I believe most horns have a relay and the 12v+ is already at said relay. When the horn ring makes contact it GROUNDS the relay (completing the circuit) and the relay contact points connect. That passes through the 12V+ to the horns. So, typically the horn ring simply grounds the relay to activate it. Sorry too late for me to check the manual for Tiger specifics but MOST cars function that way. >>>> >>>> Think of yourself standing at a light switch in the house. When someone presses you on the shoulder (connecting to ground) you and the switch act like the relay moving the switch to the on position. This then send power to the light (horn). When the person pressing on your shoulder releases you turn the switch off. Hope that helps. >>>> >>>> >>>> On 9/23/2023 5:59 PM, Robert Wanty wrote: >>>> I am working on wiring the horns for the first time since my 15 year restore. I am working with the original wiring harness and horns. Starting at the horns there is one on each side with a jumper wire between the two horns, there are 2 purple wires leading to each horn, one wire on each side is hot and wired to the fuse box the second wire is not hot or grounded. I installed a new horn ring from SS and have one wire from the contact on the horn ring and a second wire for the circle contact off the signal switch, I think the wire for the circle contact should be hot but I don't seem to have a connector for it in the harness under the dash and nothing for the wire to the horn ring. >>>> It would seem to me that I should have a hot wire to the ring contact then a hot to the horns when the horn ring is pressed. but the wiring harness does not seem to follow that way of thinking. >>>> The wiring diagram is some help but as usual my limited knowledge on this will probably start a fire. >>>> Any help would be appreciated, I would rather not rewire the circuits so hopefully I can restore the Lucas system.to its original splendor. >>>> >>>> >>>> Bob >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> >>>> tigers at autox.team.net >>>> >>>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >>>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive >>>> >>>> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/atwittsend at verizon.net >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> >>>> tigers at autox.team.net >>>> >>>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >>>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive >>>> >>>> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/bobwanty at gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> >>> tigers at autox.team.net >>> >>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive >>> >>> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/garywinblad at comcast.net >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> tigers at autox.team.net >> >> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive >> >> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/jbbrown1980 at gmail.com >> >> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From garywinblad at comcast.net Mon Sep 25 15:45:51 2023 From: garywinblad at comcast.net (GARY WINBLAD) Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2023 17:45:51 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Tigers] Horn Wiring In-Reply-To: <40BE7BF1-DD58-4ED3-B103-61B9FA8CF33E@gmail.com> References: <40BE7BF1-DD58-4ED3-B103-61B9FA8CF33E@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1208659082.82946.1695678351971@connect.xfinity.com> I found mine in a box after probably 35 years. They were broken/intermittant when I put them away. I was able to just adjust them back to life and they are still working probably 10 years later. Gary > On 09/25/2023 2:33 PM PDT Bob Wanty wrote: > > > > I found the original horns in a box but they did not work. I might give the Hellas a try > > > > On Sep 25, 2023, at 4:48 PM, Joe Brown wrote: > > > > > > > I attempted to repair my original horns but the wiring inside was crumbling. I saved them for a future project. What I installed in my car was a pair of Hella dual trumpet horns. You can see them at https://www.summitracing.com/parts/hla-007424801. They come with a relay and they mount up in the original locations with the original wiring. I didn't use the relay but I might go back and add it. I tested them before I installed them and they were really loud but they didn't seem to be as loud after I installed them. So I'm guessing that if I rewire them and use the relay I can get more current to them and have a louder sound. > > > > Have Fun, > > Joe Brown > > > > On Mon, Sep 25, 2023 at 3:21?PM GARY WINBLAD wrote: > > > > > Most all aftermarket horns have only one terminal or have 2 terminals that are both 12V. > > > There was only one brand that Paul Reisentz found to use.. I wish I could remember. > > > I think it was SPAL (the fan guys) but googling I can't find them. > > > > > > I remember because I dissected a defective original horn for him. Unlike Theo, I couldn't > > > see any way to fix that one. > > > > > > Bob, you will probably need to look for some original horns (that still work) or add a relay for the > > > fans you already have. > > > Gary W. > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 09/24/2023 8:08 PM PDT Bob Wanty wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My horns have a single terminal so I will get two terminal horns. The relay idea sounds good. > > > > Thanks for the help. > > > > Bob > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sep 24, 2023, at 9:45 PM, Theo Smit wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Bob, > > > > > > > > > > The wiring diagram here: http://tigersunited.com/resources/wsm/tt-images/MKIABIGwiring.jpg shows two solid purple wires to the horns feeding 12 volts, and two purple with black stripe wires that are the horn ring connections. There is no separate jumper wire from one horn to the other; if your car has that then it was added by a previous owner. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But, if the horns already start to sound when you connect just the hot side, then there is an internal short in at least one horn, which is not how it's intended to be. if you have an ohm-meter that can measure very low resistances then you can take measurements across the two horn terminals and from each terminal to the horn body (or the frame mount). That would help you isolate where the wiring problem is. > > > > > > > > > > This is a sketch of the high-tone horn. The low-tone horn has an L cast into the bell. The two terminals connect (through the wire coil and the points) to each other, but there should be no connection to the horn body itself. The way you're describing the operation of your horns, connecting one of the terminals to hot causes the horn to go, even if the other wire is not connected (or, without pushing the horn ring on the steering wheel). > > > > > > > > > > Do both horns work the same way (i.e. they go off when only the hot is connected) or does only one horn do that? If one horn works properly (connect the purple wire to one terminal, connect the purple-with-black-stripe wire to the other) then that horn is fine and it's the other one that has an internal short. It can probably be fixed by opening the horn up and figuring out where the short is. > > > > > > > > > > Theo > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------- > > > > > From: "Bob Wanty" > > > > > To: "Theo Smit" > > > > > Cc: "Tom Witt" , "tigers" > > > > > Sent: Sunday, September 24, 2023 6:41:37 PM > > > > > Subject: Re: [Tigers] Horn Wiring > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for the responses. > > > > > Everything is wired to the horns, they look original. There are 2 purple wires to each horn, one is hot from the fuse box the other wire goes to ground when the horn ring is pressed. When I plug the hot wire to the horn it works fine, even honks. So the horns must not be original since they are grounded to the frame. I still have 4 purple wires when I only have connections for two and the wiring diagram only shows two wires, one to each horn. > > > > > So should I isolate the horn frame ground, plug the hot wire to the horn, use the existing jumper between the horns and connect the horn ring wire to the other horn? > > > > > > > > > > On Sun, Sep 24, 2023 at 1:50?PM Theo Smit wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Correct except that Rootes (or Lucas) would never use a relay where they could instead pass all the current through a finicky sliding contact. > > > > > > > > > > > > Bob, the horns, when properly adjusted, draw about three amps each. It would be a good idea to wire in a cube type relay so that the ring contact does not have to pass that much current. > > > > > > If you like I can draw up a wiring diagram for that. > > > > > > > > > > > > Theo > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sep 23, 2023, at 10:52 PM, Tom Witt via Tigers wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I believe most horns have a relay and the 12v+ is already at said relay. When the horn ring makes contact it GROUNDS the relay (completing the circuit) and the relay contact points connect. That passes through the 12V+ to the horns. So, typically the horn ring simply grounds the relay to activate it. Sorry too late for me to check the manual for Tiger specifics but MOST cars function that way. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Think of yourself standing at a light switch in the house. When someone presses you on the shoulder (connecting to ground) you and the switch act like the relay moving the switch to the on position. This then send power to the light (horn). When the person pressing on your shoulder releases you turn the switch off. Hope that helps. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 9/23/2023 5:59 PM, Robert Wanty wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am working on wiring the horns for the first time since my 15 year restore. I am working with the original wiring harness and horns. Starting at the horns there is one on each side with a jumper wire between the two horns, there are 2 purple wires leading to each horn, one wire on each side is hot and wired to the fuse box the second wire is not hot or grounded. I installed a new horn ring from SS and have one wire from the contact on the horn ring and a second wire for the circle contact off the signal switch, I think the wire for the circle contact should be hot but I don't seem to have a connector for it in the harness under the dash and nothing for the wire to the horn ring. > > > > > > > > It would seem to me that I should have a hot wire to the ring contact then a hot to the horns when the horn ring is pressed. but the wiring harness does not seem to follow that way of thinking. > > > > > > > > The wiring diagram is some help but as usual my limited knowledge on this will probably start a fire. > > > > > > > > Any help would be appreciated, I would rather not rewire the circuits so hopefully I can restore the Lucashttp://system.to its original splendor. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bob > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > tigers at autox.team.net mailto:tigers at autox.team.net > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > > > > > > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/atwittsend at verizon.net > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > > > > > > tigers at autox.team.net mailto:tigers at autox.team.net > > > > > > > > > > > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > > > > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive > > > > > > > > > > > > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/bobwanty at gmail.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > > tigers at autox.team.net mailto:tigers at autox.team.net > > > > > > > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive > > > > > > > > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/garywinblad at comcast.net > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > tigers at autox.team.net mailto:tigers at autox.team.net > > > > > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive > > > > > > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/jbbrown1980 at gmail.com > > > > > > > > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tsmit at shaw.ca Mon Sep 25 16:28:06 2023 From: tsmit at shaw.ca (Theo Smit) Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2023 16:28:06 -0600 (MDT) Subject: [Tigers] Horn Wiring In-Reply-To: <40BE7BF1-DD58-4ED3-B103-61B9FA8CF33E@gmail.com> References: <40BE7BF1-DD58-4ED3-B103-61B9FA8CF33E@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1097953517.27873070.1695680886786.JavaMail.zimbra@shaw.ca> Based on the review info on Summit, the Hella horns have the same wiring as the OEM Clear Hooters so you should be good to go. Another source I found indicated the power consumption is 72W so that should be 6A at 12V, the same as OEM also. You would still be best off with running these through a relay. [ https://www.hella.com/MicroSite/horns/en/index.html | https://www.hella.com/MicroSite/horns/en/index.html ] On Hella's site you can hear what they sound like. Cheers, Theo From: "Bob Wanty" To: "Joe Brown" Cc: "Gary" , "Theo Smit" , "tigers" Sent: Monday, September 25, 2023 3:33:19 PM Subject: Re: [Tigers] Horn Wiring I found the original horns in a box but they did not work. I might give the Hellas a try On Sep 25, 2023, at 4:48 PM, Joe Brown wrote: BQ_BEGIN I attempted to repair my original horns but the wiring inside was crumbling. I saved them for a future project. What I installed in my car was a pair of Hella dual trumpet horns. You can see them at [ https://www.summitracing.com/parts/hla-007424801 | https://www.summitracing.com/parts/hla-007424801 ] . They come with a relay and they mount up in the original locations with the original wiring. I didn't use the relay but I might go back and add it. I tested them before I installed them and they were really loud but they didn't seem to be as loud after I installed them. So I'm guessing that if I rewire them and use the relay I can get more current to them and have a louder sound. Have Fun, Joe Brown On Mon, Sep 25, 2023 at 3:21 PM GARY WINBLAD < [ mailto:garywinblad at comcast.net | garywinblad at comcast.net ] > wrote: BQ_BEGIN Most all aftermarket horns have only one terminal or have 2 terminals that are both 12V. There was only one brand that Paul Reisentz found to use.. I wish I could remember. I think it was SPAL (the fan guys) but googling I can't find them. I remember because I dissected a defective original horn for him. Unlike Theo, I couldn't see any way to fix that one. Bob, you will probably need to look for some original horns (that still work) or add a relay for the fans you already have. Gary W. BQ_BEGIN On 09/24/2023 8:08 PM PDT Bob Wanty < [ mailto:bobwanty at gmail.com | bobwanty at gmail.com ] > wrote: My horns have a single terminal so I will get two terminal horns. The relay idea sounds good. Thanks for the help. Bob BQ_BEGIN On Sep 24, 2023, at 9:45 PM, Theo Smit < [ mailto:tsmit at shaw.ca | tsmit at shaw.ca ] > wrote: BQ_END BQ_BEGIN Hi Bob, The wiring diagram here: [ http://tigersunited.com/resources/wsm/tt-images/MKIABIGwiring.jpg | http://tigersunited.com/resources/wsm/tt-images/MKIABIGwiring.jpg ] shows two solid purple wires to the horns feeding 12 volts, and two purple with black stripe wires that are the horn ring connections. There is no separate jumper wire from one horn to the other; if your car has that then it was added by a previous owner. But, if the horns already start to sound when you connect just the hot side, then there is an internal short in at least one horn, which is not how it's intended to be. if you have an ohm-meter that can measure very low resistances then you can take measurements across the two horn terminals and from each terminal to the horn body (or the frame mount). That would help you isolate where the wiring problem is. This is a sketch of the high-tone horn. The low-tone horn has an L cast into the bell. The two terminals connect (through the wire coil and the points) to each other, but there should be no connection to the horn body itself. The way you're describing the operation of your horns, connecting one of the terminals to hot causes the horn to go, even if the other wire is not connected (or, without pushing the horn ring on the steering wheel). Do both horns work the same way (i.e. they go off when only the hot is connected) or does only one horn do that? If one horn works properly (connect the purple wire to one terminal, connect the purple-with-black-stripe wire to the other) then that horn is fine and it's the other one that has an internal short. It can probably be fixed by opening the horn up and figuring out where the short is. Theo From: "Bob Wanty" < [ mailto:bobwanty at gmail.com | bobwanty at gmail.com ] > To: "Theo Smit" < [ mailto:tsmit at shaw.ca | tsmit at shaw.ca ] > Cc: "Tom Witt" < [ mailto:atwittsend at verizon.net | atwittsend at verizon.net ] >, "tigers" < [ mailto:tigers at autox.team.net | tigers at autox.team.net ] > Sent: Sunday, September 24, 2023 6:41:37 PM Subject: Re: [Tigers] Horn Wiring Thanks for the responses. Everything is wired to the horns, they look original. There are 2 purple wires to each horn, one is hot from the fuse box the other wire goes to ground when the horn ring is pressed. When I plug the hot wire to the horn it works fine, even honks. So the horns must not be original since they are grounded to the frame. I still have 4 purple wires when I only have connections for two and the wiring diagram only shows two wires, one to each horn. So should I isolate the horn frame ground, plug the hot wire to the horn, use the existing jumper between the horns and connect the horn ring wire to the other horn? On Sun, Sep 24, 2023 at 1:50 PM Theo Smit < [ mailto:tsmit at shaw.ca | tsmit at shaw.ca ] > wrote: BQ_BEGIN Correct except that Rootes (or Lucas) would never use a relay where they could instead pass all the current through a finicky sliding contact. Bob, the horns, when properly adjusted, draw about three amps each. It would be a good idea to wire in a cube type relay so that the ring contact does not have to pass that much current. If you like I can draw up a wiring diagram for that. Theo BQ_BEGIN On Sep 23, 2023, at 10:52 PM, Tom Witt via Tigers < [ mailto:tigers at autox.team.net | tigers at autox.team.net ] > wrote: BQ_END BQ_BEGIN I believe most horns have a relay and the 12v+ is already at said relay. When the horn ring makes contact it GROUNDS the relay (completing the circuit) and the relay contact points connect. That passes through the 12V+ to the horns. So, typically the horn ring simply grounds the relay to activate it. Sorry too late for me to check the manual for Tiger specifics but MOST cars function that way. Think of yourself standing at a light switch in the house. When someone presses you on the shoulder (connecting to ground) you and the switch act like the relay moving the switch to the on position. This then send power to the light (horn). When the person pressing on your shoulder releases you turn the switch off. Hope that helps. On 9/23/2023 5:59 PM, Robert Wanty wrote: BQ_BEGIN I am working on wiring the horns for the first time since my 15 year restore. I am working with the original wiring harness and horns. Starting at the horns there is one on each side with a jumper wire between the two horns, there are 2 purple wires leading to each horn, one wire on each side is hot and wired to the fuse box the second wire is not hot or grounded. I installed a new horn ring from SS and have one wire from the contact on the horn ring and a second wire for the circle contact off the signal switch, I think the wire for the circle contact should be hot but I don't seem to have a connector for it in the harness under the dash and nothing for the wire to the horn ring. It would seem to me that I should have a hot wire to the ring contact then a hot to the horns when the horn ring is pressed. but the wiring harness does not seem to follow that way of thinking. The wiring diagram is some help but as usual my limited knowledge on this will probably start a fire. Any help would be appreciated, I would rather not rewire the circuits so hopefully I can restore the Lucas [ http://system.to/ | system.to ] its original splendor. Bob _______________________________________________ [ mailto:tigers at autox.team.net | tigers at autox.team.net ] Donate: [ http://www.team.net/donate.html | http://www.team.net/donate.html ] Archive: [ http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers | http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers ] [ http://autox.team.net/archive | http://autox.team.net/archive ] Unsubscribe: [ http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/atwittsend at verizon.net | http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/atwittsend at verizon.net ] BQ_END BQ_END _______________________________________________ [ mailto:tigers at autox.team.net | tigers at autox.team.net ] Donate: [ http://www.team.net/donate.html | http://www.team.net/donate.html ] Archive: [ http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers | http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers ] [ http://autox.team.net/archive | http://autox.team.net/archive ] Unsubscribe: [ http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/bobwanty at gmail.com | http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/bobwanty at gmail.com ] BQ_END BQ_END _______________________________________________ [ mailto:tigers at autox.team.net | tigers at autox.team.net ] Donate: [ http://www.team.net/donate.html | http://www.team.net/donate.html ] Archive: [ http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers | http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers ] [ http://autox.team.net/archive | http://autox.team.net/archive ] Unsubscribe: [ http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/garywinblad at comcast.net | http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/garywinblad at comcast.net ] BQ_END _______________________________________________ [ mailto:tigers at autox.team.net | tigers at autox.team.net ] Donate: [ http://www.team.net/donate.html | http://www.team.net/donate.html ] Archive: [ http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers | http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers ] [ http://autox.team.net/archive | http://autox.team.net/archive ] Unsubscribe: [ http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/jbbrown1980 at gmail.com | http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/jbbrown1980 at gmail.com ] BQ_END BQ_END -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From spmdr at juno.com Mon Sep 25 19:06:56 2023 From: spmdr at juno.com (DW) Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2023 18:06:56 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Horn wiring Message-ID: From my Long ago Horn testing/repair, the OEM horns seem to work better with the little bit of extra voltage of the charging system when the car is running. It was surprising how poorly the horns work on just battery voltage. DW From tsmit at shaw.ca Mon Sep 25 20:15:05 2023 From: tsmit at shaw.ca (Theo Smit) Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2023 20:15:05 -0600 Subject: [Tigers] Horn Wiring In-Reply-To: <1097953517.27873070.1695680886786.JavaMail.zimbra@shaw.ca> References: <40BE7BF1-DD58-4ED3-B103-61B9FA8CF33E@gmail.com> <1097953517.27873070.1695680886786.JavaMail.zimbra@shaw.ca> Message-ID: Attached is a wiring diagram image suitable for wiring in a typical Bosch style cube relay (with included fuse), such as is sold through this Amazon listing: https://www.amazon.com/APIELE-Relay-Normally-Harness-Socket/dp/B0B1TF3DTV/ref=sr_1_43?crid=337OR55GZFBVN&keywords=cube%2Brelay%2Bwith%2Bfuse&qid=1695689958&sprefix=cube%2Brelay%2Bwith%2Bfuse%2Caps%2C151&sr=8-43&th=1? APIELE 4 Pin Relay 12V 40A Relay with 30A Fuse DC SPST Fused Relay Normally Open 1NO with 14 AWG Harness Socket for Car Truck Motor amazon.com This relay includes a connecting socket with color coded wires. I?ve indicated the color as well as the Bosch standard reference numbers on the diagram. The fuse is there to protect the horn wiring. The relay is typically beefy enough to pass 30 amps, but the OEM purple wires are going to melt before the OEM 35 amp fuse blows if you ever had a dead short in the horn circuit. Since the horns themselves should not draw more than about 6 amps, it should be fine to put a 15 amp fuse in the relay?s fuse holder. That will ensure that if you have a short (at least downstream of the fuse?) it will blow the fuse before it destroys your wiring. If you run the circuit as shown, the ?hot? side of the relay output (red wire) can drive either the horns you currently have, with a built-in ground, or they could drive the OEM or the Hella horns if you then wire the other terminal of each horn to ground as shown in the diagram. Let me know if you have any questions. ? > On Sep 25, 2023, at 4:28 PM, Theo Smit wrote: > > Based on the review info on Summit, the Hella horns have the same wiring as the OEM Clear Hooters so you should be good to go. Another source I found indicated the power consumption is 72W so that should be 6A at 12V, the same as OEM also. You would still be best off with running these through a relay. > > https://www.hella.com/MicroSite/horns/en/index.html > > On Hella's site you can hear what they sound like. > > Cheers, > Theo > From: "Bob Wanty" > To: "Joe Brown" > Cc: "Gary" , "Theo Smit" , "tigers" > Sent: Monday, September 25, 2023 3:33:19 PM > Subject: Re: [Tigers] Horn Wiring > > I found the original horns in a box but they did not work. I might give the Hellas a try > > On Sep 25, 2023, at 4:48 PM, Joe Brown wrote: > > I attempted to repair my original horns but the wiring inside was crumbling. I saved them for a future project. What I installed in my car was a pair of Hella dual trumpet horns. You can see them at https://www.summitracing.com/parts/hla-007424801. They come with a relay and they mount up in the original locations with the original wiring. I didn't use the relay but I might go back and add it. I tested them before I installed them and they were really loud but they didn't seem to be as loud after I installed them. So I'm guessing that if I rewire them and use the relay I can get more current to them and have a louder sound. > Have Fun, > Joe Brown > > On Mon, Sep 25, 2023 at 3:21?PM GARY WINBLAD > wrote: >> Most all aftermarket horns have only one terminal or have 2 terminals that are both 12V. >> There was only one brand that Paul Reisentz found to use.. I wish I could remember. >> I think it was SPAL (the fan guys) but googling I can't find them. >> >> I remember because I dissected a defective original horn for him. Unlike Theo, I couldn't >> see any way to fix that one. >> >> Bob, you will probably need to look for some original horns (that still work) or add a relay for the >> fans you already have. >> Gary W. >> >> >> On 09/24/2023 8:08 PM PDT Bob Wanty > wrote: >> >> >> >> My horns have a single terminal so I will get two terminal horns. The relay idea sounds good. >> Thanks for the help. >> Bob >> >> On Sep 24, 2023, at 9:45 PM, Theo Smit > wrote: >> >> Hi Bob, >> >> The wiring diagram here: http://tigersunited.com/resources/wsm/tt-images/MKIABIGwiring.jpg shows two solid purple wires to the horns feeding 12 volts, and two purple with black stripe wires that are the horn ring connections. There is no separate jumper wire from one horn to the other; if your car has that then it was added by a previous owner. >> >> >> But, if the horns already start to sound when you connect just the hot side, then there is an internal short in at least one horn, which is not how it's intended to be. if you have an ohm-meter that can measure very low resistances then you can take measurements across the two horn terminals and from each terminal to the horn body (or the frame mount). That would help you isolate where the wiring problem is. >> >> This is a sketch of the high-tone horn. The low-tone horn has an L cast into the bell. The two terminals connect (through the wire coil and the points) to each other, but there should be no connection to the horn body itself. The way you're describing the operation of your horns, connecting one of the terminals to hot causes the horn to go, even if the other wire is not connected (or, without pushing the horn ring on the steering wheel). >> >> Do both horns work the same way (i.e. they go off when only the hot is connected) or does only one horn do that? If one horn works properly (connect the purple wire to one terminal, connect the purple-with-black-stripe wire to the other) then that horn is fine and it's the other one that has an internal short. It can probably be fixed by opening the horn up and figuring out where the short is. >> >> Theo >> >> From: "Bob Wanty" > >> To: "Theo Smit" > >> Cc: "Tom Witt" >, "tigers" > >> Sent: Sunday, September 24, 2023 6:41:37 PM >> Subject: Re: [Tigers] Horn Wiring >> >> Thanks for the responses. >> Everything is wired to the horns, they look original. There are 2 purple wires to each horn, one is hot from the fuse box the other wire goes to ground when the horn ring is pressed. When I plug the hot wire to the horn it works fine, even honks. So the horns must not be original since they are grounded to the frame. I still have 4 purple wires when I only have connections for two and the wiring diagram only shows two wires, one to each horn. >> So should I isolate the horn frame ground, plug the hot wire to the horn, use the existing jumper between the horns and connect the horn ring wire to the other horn? >> >> On Sun, Sep 24, 2023 at 1:50?PM Theo Smit > wrote: >> >> Correct except that Rootes (or Lucas) would never use a relay where they could instead pass all the current through a finicky sliding contact. >> >> Bob, the horns, when properly adjusted, draw about three amps each. It would be a good idea to wire in a cube type relay so that the ring contact does not have to pass that much current. >> If you like I can draw up a wiring diagram for that. >> >> Theo >> On Sep 23, 2023, at 10:52 PM, Tom Witt via Tigers > wrote: >> >> I believe most horns have a relay and the 12v+ is already at said relay. When the horn ring makes contact it GROUNDS the relay (completing the circuit) and the relay contact points connect. That passes through the 12V+ to the horns. So, typically the horn ring simply grounds the relay to activate it. Sorry too late for me to check the manual for Tiger specifics but MOST cars function that way. >> >> Think of yourself standing at a light switch in the house. When someone presses you on the shoulder (connecting to ground) you and the switch act like the relay moving the switch to the on position. This then send power to the light (horn). When the person pressing on your shoulder releases you turn the switch off. Hope that helps. >> >> >> On 9/23/2023 5:59 PM, Robert Wanty wrote: >> I am working on wiring the horns for the first time since my 15 year restore. I am working with the original wiring harness and horns. Starting at the horns there is one on each side with a jumper wire between the two horns, there are 2 purple wires leading to each horn, one wire on each side is hot and wired to the fuse box the second wire is not hot or grounded. I installed a new horn ring from SS and have one wire from the contact on the horn ring and a second wire for the circle contact off the signal switch, I think the wire for the circle contact should be hot but I don't seem to have a connector for it in the harness under the dash and nothing for the wire to the horn ring. >> It would seem to me that I should have a hot wire to the ring contact then a hot to the horns when the horn ring is pressed. but the wiring harness does not seem to follow that way of thinking. >> The wiring diagram is some help but as usual my limited knowledge on this will probably start a fire. >> Any help would be appreciated, I would rather not rewire the circuits so hopefully I can restore the Lucas system.to its original splendor. >> >> >> Bob >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> tigers at autox.team.net >> >> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive >> >> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/atwittsend at verizon.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> tigers at autox.team.net >> >> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive >> >> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/bobwanty at gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> tigers at autox.team.net >> >> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive >> >> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/garywinblad at comcast.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> tigers at autox.team.net >> >> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive >> >> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/jbbrown1980 at gmail.com >> >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... 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