[Tigers] Tigers Digest, Vol 16, Issue 143
Owain Lloyd
owain.lloyd at gmail.com
Thu Jul 20 12:21:03 MDT 2023
Never had a problem with a flex fan. Much more efficient at high rpm.
On Thu, 20 Jul 2023 at 19:55, Tom Witt via Tigers <tigers at autox.team.net>
wrote:
> As I was reading your "journey" when you got to the Flex-a-Lite fan
> (initial item #6) I thought it might be suspect. Most people seem to have
> success with the Maverick fan, the Volvo fan or a particular Derale fan. I
> can see where a pusher fan might impede airflow of a mechanical puller fan
> but not the other way where a puller fan impedes the flow of a pusher fan.
> That said given the "Flex" aspect of the Flex-a-Lite fan I wonder if it
> creates a "wall of wind" and was causing the overheating issue. Without
> smoke to see the flow of air movement I'm always baffled by things that
> blow over - and those that don't, leaves that deposit in one area of the
> yard - and not another. So, whatever the flex fan was doing it seems
> germane to the itself as others have not had the same issue with the
> recommended fans and a pusher fan. I won't ask if the fan was installed
> backwards (you seen way smarter than that) but does the possibility exist
> that the fan design was for counter rotation? With serpentine belts in cars
> these days the rotation of the water pump is often opposite of earlier
> engines of the same design. The good news is that you found a solution to
> your problem. Enjoy the ride.
> On 7/20/2023 7:47 AM, Joel Martin via Tigers wrote:
>
> Tiger Running hot – Shotgun Approach after time of trying baby steps.
>
> After about a year of struggling with car running hot at idle with the
> hood down, Hot to me is 195 degrees and above. I took drastic steps. I
> have been driving the car during the last year only on back roads with not
> much chance of traffic lights and traffic. I live in rural NC outside of
> Pinehurst.
> Bloody yahoo mail formatting ruined numbering copied from MS Word,
> so please ignore.
> 1. Purchased and installed Sunbeam Specialties (SS) gloss black
> radiator overflow tank, missing from car.
> 2. Purchased and installed overflow tank straps from Alexander
> Washick alw6464 at gmail.com which are powder coated, missing from car.
>
> 1. Purchased and installed undersize water pump pulley from Robert
> Straghan <rgstraghan at yahoo.ca> <rgstraghan at yahoo.ca> scuffed, primed
> and painted semi gloss black
> 2. Purchased and installed horn hole block plates from Don Lutjen
> <dlutjen55 at gmail.com> <dlutjen55 at gmail.com> scuffed, primed and
> painted semi gloss black.
> 3. Purchased and installed new taller custom aluminum cross flow side
> tank radiator from Griffin Radiator.
> 4. Purchased and installed new Flow Kooler water pump BRA-1680 painted
> Ford dark blue to match engine replacing SS water pump, pressed hub to line
> up.
> 5. Modified the mechanical fan spacer so that front of fan is 1” from
> radiator.
> 6. Mechanical fan remains Flex-a-Lite 14” nylon 6 blade fan.
> 7. Purchased and installed new SS lower radiator and overflow to
> radiator hoses.
> 8. New top radiator hose from local source, as SS hose would not fit
> taller radiator.
> 9. New fan belt.
> 10. Purchased and refurbished original Tiger fan shroud which would
> not fit as I did not want to cut a original shroud top mounting bracket to
> fit my taller radiator. Striped, primed and painted used shroud semi
> gloss black – sitting on shelf.
> 11. Installed 160 degree thermostat from 180. Could not find 170
> degree. If anyone has a part number and supplier for a 170-degree
> thermostat, please forward.
>
> So at this point I do not have a fan shroud – unless make up a custom. Other
> changes could make is front air dam and block front cross member to bottom
> of radiator spacing but for now I am going to see how things play out this
> summer.
>
> Ok after all the above I was still not satisfied with watching the
> temperature gauge increase while at idle or in stop and go traffic. Goal
> was to keep the temperature at ALL times between 180 and 190 degrees
> whether driving or at idle.
>
> The following changes have been made since the above changes 1-13 after
> trial period of 6 months or so.
>
> The Flow Kooler water pump started leaking so I purchased the SS water
> pump and installed it and drove for a month or so. Install error on the
> Flow Kooler water pump gasket turned out to be the problem. The SS water
> pump actually raised idle temps 2-3 degrees so I would later reinstall the
> Flow Kooler with a new gasket.
>
> 1. Installed a couple of 12” electric pusher fans I had in the garage
> and wired a manual off/on switch under the dash with a relay. Not
> much help or change in idle temperature while at stoplights or stop\go
> traffic.
> 2. Built and installed a custom fan shroud. Remember I have an
> oversize Griffin radiator. This change resulted in idle temp. drop by
> maybe 2-3 degrees. Goal not achieve at this point but getting better.
> 3. I then discussed issue with Flex-a-lite technical services hot line
> (multiple times) regarding their electric pusher fan line.
> 1. The rule of thumb they recommend: Electric fans of either the
> pusher or puller type should be that the electric fan should cover 70% of
> the radiator surface. Mine came out to 69.5% coverage.
> 2. Small block V-8 engines recommendation is 3,000 CFM.
> 3. Flex - a- Lite had only 1 fan that met these specifications.
>
>
>
> *FLX-105391 <https://www.summitracing.com/parts/FLX-105391>*
> Electric Fan, Pusher, Flex-Wave, Single, 16 in. Diameter, 3,000 cfm,
> Black, 20 amps,
> (Mfr. #: 239)
>
> 1. Also purchased temp probe and relay from Flex – a Lite which is
> adjustable so you can set when the fan comes on. Off is 10 degrees
> from on temp and is NOT adjustable.
>
> *FLX-121281 <https://www.summitracing.com/parts/FLX-121281>*
> Fan Control, Compact, Adjustable, Thread-in Probe, Single Fan, Kit
> (Mfr. #: 33095)
> e. Also purchased temperature probe adapter and installed in
> the upper radiator hose.
>
>
>
> *FLX-107078 <https://www.summitracing.com/parts/FLX-107078>*
> Radiator Hose Adapter, Aluminum, Fits 1 1/2 in. Hose, Has Two 1/4 in. NPT
> Ports, Includes One Plug, Each
> (Mfr. #: 32082)
>
> The idea was to run the stock temp gauge probe into the adapter and
> keep my mechanical temperature gauge in place in the manifold to verify
> stock gauge was pretty accurate. The ¼ NPT port would not handle the
> stock probe and I could not find 1/4 probe with the correct ohms for the
> stock gauge, so manual temp gauge is still in place which I believe is
> accurate.
>
> f. Goal still not achieved
>
> 1. Flex - a - Lite then offered the following advice – “You typically
> only need one or the other. If you have a mechanical fan and just want
> extra cooling in stop and go traffic, I suggest you use a much smaller
> electric fan. But using both a mechanical and this bigger electric fan will
> probably cause some disruption.” The two smaller electric fans I used
> did not work in my case, so advice about smaller electric fan in
> conjunction with mechanical water pump fan did not work in my particular
> car.
>
> Plan …. Reinstalled the Flow Kooler water pump with new gasket.
>
> 1. Removed the mechanical fan from the water pump and the 1” spacer. Finally
> success! Temp stays between 176 and 190 at ALL times regardless of
> ambient temperature and traffic conditions. So, in my case, the mechanical
> fan in conjunction with the electric fan was causing air flow disruption.
> 2. The temp at speed above 35 mph, the car runs around 176 degrees
> with 160 degree thermostat in temps 90 degrees and less. About 183
> in temperatures above 90, so not a issue. I might try out the 180
> degree thermostat at some point, 170 if I could find one might be optimum
> for my car. The only down side for me is the electric fan is noisy
> when running and volts on volt gauge drops around ½ - ¾- volt when the fan
> comes on.. The battery volts dropping are due to fan drawing 20 amps. This
> has not been a issue with lights on or off. I have a alternator and not the
> generator so with generator cars, this might be an issue. Now I
> cannot hear the electric fan *at all* inside the car but outside,
> it is noisy when running. Headers, 2.25" exhaust pipes with Flow
> Master series 40 mufflers. I wonder why I cannot hear fan running.
>
> So you see I have tried almost all recommended suggestions except lower
> shroud addition and air dam to direct airflow.
>
> Every car reacts differently to changes and you have to keep trying
> different approaches that might work for your car and temperature\humidity
> of the area you reside.
>
> What changes I have made to me that had the biggest result and what would
> I try again in what order to minimize cost, effort and work involved.
> Yahoo formatting again.
> Test temp gauge and sender to ensure reading properly.
>
> 1. Ensure radiator in good working order.
> 2. Change thermostat from 180 to 170 then 160.
> 3. Install horn block off plates, minimal cost and about 1 hour to
> install.
> 4. Fan shroud if you do not have one, 2-3 degrees improvement in my
> case, custom made. Possible making of the lower portion of the shroud
> as well, which I have not done.
> 5. Undersize water pump pulley and at same time, try a different
> mechanical fan and ensure fan is 1” from radiator.
> 6. Flow Kooler water pump BRA-1680, 2-3 degrees improvement in my case
> 7. New Griffin radiator. They sell a package for the Tiger with
> radiator, electric fan and shroud. Remember my radiator is a custom
> oversize radiator install by previous owner and the stock Griffin radiator
> or package would not work in my case but I have installed a new custom
> Griffin radiator.
> 8. Remove mechanical fan and install electric pusher fan that covers
> 70% of your radiator surface *and *moves 3,000 cfm’s as recommended
> for small block V-8 motors. Items 8 and 9 could be in reverse order and
> step 9 will not necessary if you purchase the Griffin Tiger package, your
> call.
>
> So you see I have tried almost all recommended suggestions except lower
> shroud addition and air dam to direct air flow and have finally met my goal
> of keeping the temperature between 180 to 190 degrees in all driving
> conditions. I hope my trials and findings will help you moving forward.
> Any questions, please ask.
>
> Regards
>
> Joel Martin
>
> On Wednesday, July 19, 2023 at 09:09:34 PM EDT,
> tigers-request at autox.team.net <tigers-request at autox.team.net>
> <tigers-request at autox.team.net> wrote:
>
>
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: Cooling Fan (LARRY PAULICK)
> Joe, I did an article for Tigers United, that describes with photographs
> what I did for the full fans shroud.
>
> TigersUnited.com
> <http://tigersunited.com/techtips/PaulickShroud/pt-PaulickShroud.asp>
> tigersunited.com
> <http://tigersunited.com/techtips/PaulickShroud/pt-PaulickShroud.asp>
> <http://tigersunited.com/techtips/PaulickShroud/pt-PaulickShroud.asp>
> <http://tigersunited.com/techtips/PaulickShroud/pt-PaulickShroud.asp>
>
> BTW, Tigers United has a lot of great articles covering the variety of
> subjects. You might want to check it out.
>
>
>
> On Jul 19, 2023, at 10:31 AM, Joe Brown <jbbrown1980 at gmail.com>
> <jbbrown1980 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Thanks for all of the replies. I have a mostly stock engine (with
> Edelbrock intake and 4 bbl.) and stock radiator. I have a temperature
> gauge mounted on the intake and the engine seems to run a little over 200
> at idle but I haven't had any problems while driving the car. My problem
> right now is that I took the car out one afternoon when the temperature was
> over 100 degrees and when I pulled into the garage and shut the engine off
> it puked some water onto the floor. The temp gauge was showing around 250
> degrees at that point.
>
> I already have the lower shroud on my radiator and I am making some horn
> opening covers today. I will also look at blocking off the area below the
> radiator. I have read all of the articles that people have referred to and
> I believe I have an airflow problem at low speeds. So I was just looking
> for pusher fan recommendations at this point.
>
> The best advice is to probably not drive in 100+ degree weather.
>
> Thanks,
> Joe Brown
>
> On Wed, Jul 19, 2023 at 8:33 AM LARRY PAULICK via Tigers <
> tigers at autox.team.net> wrote:
>
> I made a custom lower fan shroud, as one does not exist for the stock
> tiger, fan shroud. I did smoke test with the car at idle and the air comes
> through the radiator down towards the ground and circles back through the
> radiator again. So essentially you're just recycling hot air from your own
> radiator. It works.
>
> On Jul 19, 2023, at 2:03 AM, Owain Lloyd <owain.lloyd at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I think michael hit the nail on the head. first need to know is it
> overheating when stationary / moving slowly or at speed?
>
> a pusher fan will only help at very low speed or when stopped. and spal
> is the go to brand. still need the horn holes and gap between cross
> member and rad blocked. cardboard and zip ties does the trick quickly and
> can be replaced with a more permanent solution later if you want. also
> need a fan shroud.
>
> personally i've never needed the electric pusher fan because i have a
> small 13" flex fan on the water pump pulley. that creates enough pull
> through the radiator at idle.
>
> if its overheating at more than 30/40mph then its another problem entirely
> and there are a variety of other things to check.
>
> in my case its fuel boiling in the carb under certain conditions (slowing
> down after running fast in really high ambient temps above a particular
> altitude) rather than coolant temp which is the problem. there are a bunch
> of things i could do there, most importantly a carb heat shield, but
> i've only suffered from it once.
>
> one thing i've found very useful for debugging cooling issues in the tiger
> over the years is having a glass gano filter in the rad top hose. at least
> you can see how the coolant is circulating which helps with thermostat or
> water pump issues and if you're used to how it should look, even how
> blocked the radiator is.
>
>
> On Wed, Jul 19, 2023 at 7:41 AM Jim B via Tigers <tigers at autox.team.net>
> wrote:
>
> I’ve been reading about cooling issues with tigers for more that a decade
> (much less than some reading this) blocking horn holes, pusher fans, and
> shrouds etc etc. Entire studies have been done on this issue. Just check
> STOA, CAT or any club site. All good reads! I think the first place to
> start is knowing what the actual engine team really is. We all know that
> the original temp guage can be off. The other thing is: as a dyed in the
> wool ford guy, 185 degrees is the optimal engine temp. But, Ford engines
> can get to 195-200 degrees easily and that is not necessarily a bad thing.
> Yes, I put a pusher in mine only because I had one. I’m not really sure is
> does anything. My original guage can show 225-230 on a hot day (humidity
> plays a bitg role) but never has pucked out fluid. The design of the should
> is an issue. It lets hot air from the engine compartment to get under the
> radiator. Many, many, ‘fixes’ that can be done. However, on a hot low
> humidity day.. well good luck. JMO
>
> On Jul 18, 2023, at 8:40 PM, Allan Ballard <aballard at ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>
> The article includes several suggestions.
>
> One of them is to seal the missing section of the stock fan shroud at the
> bottom.
>
> A list member offered a piece he fabricated.
>
> I obtained one and here are a couple of pictures. I hope to fit it later
> this year.
>
> Even a few degrees of cooling will be worth the effort.
>
> Allan Ballard
> Mk1a Tiger
>
> <image0.jpeg><image1.jpeg>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jul 18, 2023, at 10:57 PM, Jay Laifman <jay.laifman at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Have you looked at this cooling suggestions?
> http://tigersunited.com/techtips/SteveLaifmanValance/pt-SteveLaifmanValance1.asp
>
> It works great in Southern California heat.
>
> On Tue, Jul 18, 2023 at 3:42 PM Joe Brown <jbbrown1980 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> My Tiger can't keep up with this 100 degree weather in Texas. I've read
> through the article by Tiger Tom and Chuck King and I will make some of the
> suggested modifications. They listed two different pusher electric fans in
> the article but both of them are no longer available.
>
> So, has anybody recently installed a pusher fan? If so, what part numbers?
>
> Thanks,
> Joe Brown
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