[Tigers] Tigers Digest, Vol 16, Issue 143
Tom Witt
atwittsend at verizon.net
Thu Jul 20 10:24:26 MDT 2023
As I was reading your "journey" when you got to the Flex-a-Lite fan
(initial item #6) I thought it might be suspect. Most people seem to
have success with the Maverick fan, the Volvo fan or a particular Derale
fan. I can see where a pusher fan might impede airflow of a mechanical
puller fan but not the other way where a puller fan impedes the flow of
a pusher fan. That said given the "Flex" aspect of the Flex-a-Lite fan I
wonder if it creates a "wall of wind" and was causing the overheating
issue. Without smoke to see the flow of air movement I'm always baffled
by things that blow over - and those that don't, leaves that deposit in
one area of the yard - and not another. So, whatever the flex fan was
doing it seems germane to the itself as others have not had the same
issue with the recommended fans and a pusher fan. I won't ask if the fan
was installed backwards (you seen way smarter than that) but does the
possibility exist that the fan design was for counter rotation? With
serpentine belts in cars these days the rotation of the water pump is
often opposite of earlier engines of the same design. The good news is
that you found a solution to your problem. Enjoy the ride.
On 7/20/2023 7:47 AM, Joel Martin via Tigers wrote:
>
> Tiger Running hot – Shotgun Approach after time of trying baby steps.
>
> After about a year of struggling with car running hot at idle with the
> hood down, Hot to me is 195 degrees and above. I took drastic steps.I
> have been driving the car during the last year only on back roads with
> not much chance of traffic lights and traffic.I live in rural NC
> outside of Pinehurst.
>
> Bloody yahoo mail formatting ruined numbering copied from MS Word, so
> please ignore.
> 1. Purchased and installed Sunbeam Specialties (SS) gloss black
> radiator overflow tank, missing from car.
> 2. Purchased and installed overflow tank straps from Alexander
> Washickalw6464 at gmail.com which are powder coated, missing from car.
>
> 1. Purchased and installed undersize water pump pulley from Robert
> Straghan<rgstraghan at yahoo.ca> scuffed, primed and painted semi
> gloss black
> 2. Purchased and installed horn hole block plates from Don
> Lutjen<dlutjen55 at gmail.com> scuffed, primed and painted semi gloss
> black.
> 3. Purchased and installed new taller custom aluminum cross flow side
> tank radiator from Griffin Radiator.
> 4. Purchased and installed new Flow Kooler water pump BRA-1680
> painted Ford dark blue to match engine replacing SS water pump,
> pressed hub to line up.
> 5. Modified the mechanical fan spacer so that front of fan is 1” from
> radiator.
> 6. Mechanical fan remains Flex-a-Lite 14” nylon 6 blade fan.
> 7. Purchased and installed new SS lower radiator and overflow to
> radiator hoses.
> 8. New top radiator hose from local source, as SS hose would not fit
> taller radiator.
> 9. New fan belt.
> 10. Purchased and refurbished original Tiger fan shroud which would
> not fit as I did not want to cut a original shroud top mounting
> bracket to fit my taller radiator.Striped, primed and painted used
> shroud semi gloss black – sitting on shelf.
> 11. Installed 160 degree thermostat from 180.Could not find 170
> degree.If anyone has a part number and supplier for a 170-degree
> thermostat, please forward.
>
> So at this point I do not have a fan shroud – unless make up a
> custom.Other changes could make is front air dam and block front cross
> member to bottom of radiator spacing but for now I am going to see how
> things play out this summer.
>
> Ok after all the above I was still not satisfied with watching the
> temperature gauge increase while at idle or in stop and go
> traffic.Goal was to keep the temperature at ALL times between 180 and
> 190 degrees whether driving or at idle.
>
> The following changes have been made since the above changes 1-13
> after trial period of 6 months or so.
>
> The Flow Kooler water pump started leaking so I purchased the SS water
> pump and installed it and drove for a month or so.Install error on the
> Flow Kooler water pump gasket turned out to be the problem.The SS
> water pump actually raised idle temps 2-3 degrees so I would later
> reinstall the Flow Kooler with a new gasket.
>
> 1. Installed a couple of 12” electric pusher fans I had in the garage
> and wired a manual off/on switch under the dash with a relay.Not
> much help or change in idle temperature while at stoplights or
> stop\go traffic.
> 2. Built and installed a custom fan shroud.Remember I have an
> oversize Griffin radiator.This change resulted in idle temp. drop
> by maybe 2-3 degrees.Goal not achieve at this point but getting
> better.
> 3. I then discussed issue with Flex-a-lite technical services hot
> line (multiple times) regarding their electric pusher fan line.
> 1. The rule of thumb they recommend:Electric fans of either the
> pusher or puller type should be that the electric fan should
> cover 70% of the radiator surface.Mine came out to 69.5% coverage.
> 2. Small block V-8 engines recommendation is3,000 CFM.
> 3. Flex - a- Lite had only 1 fan that met these specifications.
>
>
>
> *FLX-105391 <https://www.summitracing.com/parts/FLX-105391>*
> Electric Fan, Pusher, Flex-Wave, Single, 16 in. Diameter, 3,000 cfm,
> Black, 20 amps,
> (Mfr. #: 239)
>
> 4. Also purchased temp probe and relay from Flex – a Lite which
> is adjustable so you can set when the fan comes on.Off is 10
> degrees from on temp and is NOT adjustable.
>
>
>
> *FLX-121281 <https://www.summitracing.com/parts/FLX-121281>*
> Fan Control, Compact, Adjustable, Thread-in Probe, Single Fan, Kit
> (Mfr. #: 33095)
>
> e. Also purchased temperature probe adapter and installed in the upper
> radiator hose.
>
>
>
> *FLX-107078 <https://www.summitracing.com/parts/FLX-107078>*
> Radiator Hose Adapter, Aluminum, Fits 1 1/2 in. Hose, Has Two 1/4 in.
> NPT Ports, Includes One Plug, Each
> (Mfr. #: 32082)
>
> The idea was to run the stock temp gauge probeinto the adapter and
> keep my mechanical temperature gauge in place in the manifold to
> verify stock gauge was pretty accurate.The ¼ NPT port would not handle
> the stock probe and I could not find 1/4 probe with the correct ohms
> for the stock gauge, so manual temp gauge is still in place which I
> believe is accurate.
>
> f.Goal still not achieved
>
> 5. Flex - a - Lite then offered the following advice – “You typically
> only need one or the other. If you have a mechanical fan and just
> want extra cooling in stop and go traffic, I suggest you use a
> much smaller electric fan. But using both a mechanical and this
> bigger electric fan will probably cause some disruption.”The two
> smaller electric fans I used did not work in my case, so advice
> about smaller electric fan in conjunction with mechanical water
> pump fan did not work in my particular car.
>
> Plan …. Reinstalled the Flow Kooler water pump with new gasket.
>
> 1. Removed the mechanical fan from the water pump and the 1”
> spacer.Finally success!Temp stays between 176 and 190 at ALL
> times regardless of ambient temperature and traffic
> conditions. So, in my case, the mechanical fan in conjunction
> with the electric fan was causing air flow disruption.
> 2. The temp at speed above 35 mph, the car runs around 176
> degrees with 160 degree thermostat in temps 90 degrees and
> less. About 183 in temperatures above 90, so not a issue. I
> might try out the 180 degree thermostat at some point, 170 if
> I could find one might be optimum for my car.The only down
> side for me is the electric fan is noisy when running and
> volts on volt gauge drops around ½ - ¾- volt when the fan
> comes on.. The battery volts dropping are due to fan drawing
> 20 amps. This has not been a issue with lights on or off. I
> have a alternator and not the generator so with generator
> cars, this might be an issue.Now I cannot hear the electric
> fan *at all* inside the car but outside, it is noisy when
> running.Headers, 2.25" exhaust pipes with Flow Master series
> 40 mufflers.I wonder why I cannot hear fan running.
>
> So you see I have tried almost all recommended suggestions except
> lower shroud addition and air dam to direct airflow.
>
> Every car reacts differently to changes and you have to keep trying
> different approaches that might work for your car and
> temperature\humidity of the area you reside.
>
> What changes I have made to me that had the biggest result and what
> would I try again in what order to minimize cost, effort and work
> involved.
>
> Yahoo formatting again.
> Test temp gauge and sender to ensure reading properly.
>
> 1. Ensure radiator in good working order.
> 2. Change thermostat from 180 to 170 then 160.
> 3. Install horn block off plates, minimal cost and about 1 hour to
> install.
> 4. Fan shroud if you do not have one, 2-3 degrees improvement in my
> case, custom made.Possible making of the lower portion of the
> shroud as well, which I have not done.
> 5. Undersize water pump pulley and at same time, try a different
> mechanical fan and ensure fan is 1” from radiator.
> 6. Flow Kooler water pump BRA-1680, 2-3 degrees improvement in my case
> 7. New Griffin radiator.They sell a package for the Tiger with
> radiator, electric fan and shroud.Remember my radiator is a custom
> oversize radiator install by previous owner and the stock Griffin
> radiator or package would not work in my case but I have installed
> a new custom Griffin radiator.
> 8. Remove mechanical fan and install electric pusher fan that covers
> 70% of your radiator surface *and *moves 3,000 cfm’s as
> recommended for small block V-8 motors. Items 8 and 9 could be in
> reverse order and step 9 will not necessary if you purchase the
> Griffin Tiger package, your call.
>
> So you see I have tried almost all recommended suggestions except
> lower shroud addition and air dam to direct air flow and have finally
> met my goal of keeping the temperature between 180 to 190 degrees in
> all driving conditions.I hope my trials and findings will help you
> moving forward. Any questions, please ask.
>
> Regards
>
> Joel Martin
>
> On Wednesday, July 19, 2023 at 09:09:34 PM EDT,
> tigers-request at autox.team.net <tigers-request at autox.team.net> wrote:
>
>
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: Cooling Fan (LARRY PAULICK)
> Joe, I did an article for Tigers United, that describes with
> photographs what I did for the full fans shroud.
>
> TigersUnited.com
> <http://tigersunited.com/techtips/PaulickShroud/pt-PaulickShroud.asp>
> tigersunited.com
> <http://tigersunited.com/techtips/PaulickShroud/pt-PaulickShroud.asp>
> <http://tigersunited.com/techtips/PaulickShroud/pt-PaulickShroud.asp>
>
> <http://tigersunited.com/techtips/PaulickShroud/pt-PaulickShroud.asp>
>
> BTW, Tigers United has a lot of great articles covering the variety of
> subjects. You might want to check it out.
>
>
>
>> On Jul 19, 2023, at 10:31 AM, Joe Brown <jbbrown1980 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Thanks for all of the replies. I have a mostly stock engine (with
>> Edelbrock intake and 4 bbl.) and stock radiator. I have a
>> temperature gauge mounted on the intake and the engine seems to run a
>> little over 200 at idle but I haven't had any problems while driving
>> the car. My problem right now is that I took the car out one
>> afternoon when the temperature was over 100 degrees and when I pulled
>> into the garage and shut the engine off it puked some water onto the
>> floor. The temp gauge was showing around 250 degrees at that point.
>>
>> I already have the lower shroud on my radiator and I am making some
>> horn opening covers today. I will also look at blocking off the area
>> below the radiator. I have read all of the articles that people have
>> referred to and I believe I have an airflow problem at low speeds.
>> So I was just looking for pusher fan recommendations at this point.
>>
>> The best advice is to probably not drive in 100+ degree weather.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Joe Brown
>>
>> On Wed, Jul 19, 2023 at 8:33 AM LARRY PAULICK via Tigers
>> <tigers at autox.team.net> wrote:
>>
>> I made a custom lower fan shroud, as one does not exist for the
>> stock tiger, fan shroud. I did smoke test with the car at idle
>> and the air comes through the radiator down towards the ground
>> and circles back through the radiator again. So essentially
>> you're just recycling hot air from your own radiator. It works.
>>
>>> On Jul 19, 2023, at 2:03 AM, Owain Lloyd <owain.lloyd at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> I think michael hit the nail on the head. first need to know is
>>> it overheating when stationary / moving slowly or at speed?
>>>
>>> a pusher fan will only help at very low speed or when stopped.
>>> and spal is the go to brand. still need the horn holes and gap
>>> between cross member and rad blocked. cardboard and zip ties
>>> does the trick quickly and can be replaced with a more
>>> permanent solution later if you want. also need a fan shroud.
>>>
>>> personally i've never needed the electric pusher fan because i
>>> have a small 13" flex fan on the water pump pulley. that
>>> creates enough pull through the radiator at idle.
>>>
>>> if its overheating at more than 30/40mph then its another
>>> problem entirely and there are a variety of other things to check.
>>>
>>> in my case its fuel boiling in the carb under certain
>>> conditions (slowing down after running fast in really high
>>> ambient temps above a particular altitude) rather than coolant
>>> temp which is the problem. there are a bunch of things i could
>>> do there, most importantly a carb heat shield, but i've only
>>> suffered from it once.
>>>
>>> one thing i've found very useful for debugging cooling issues in
>>> the tiger over the years is having a glass gano filter in the
>>> rad top hose. at least you can see how the coolant is
>>> circulating which helps with thermostat or water pump issues and
>>> if you're used to how it should look, even how blocked the
>>> radiator is.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jul 19, 2023 at 7:41 AM Jim B via Tigers
>>> <tigers at autox.team.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> I’ve been reading about cooling issues with tigers for more
>>> that a decade (much less than some reading this) blocking
>>> horn holes, pusher fans, and shrouds etc etc. Entire studies
>>> have been done on this issue. Just check STOA, CAT or any
>>> club site. All good reads! I think the first place to start
>>> is knowing what the actual engine team really is. We all
>>> know that the original temp guage can be off. The other
>>> thing is: as a dyed in the wool ford guy, 185 degrees is the
>>> optimal engine temp. But, Ford engines can get to 195-200
>>> degrees easily and that is not necessarily a bad thing. Yes,
>>> I put a pusher in mine only because I had one. I’m not
>>> really sure is does anything. My original guage can show
>>> 225-230 on a hot day (humidity plays a bitg role) but never
>>> has pucked out fluid. The design of the should is an issue.
>>> It lets hot air from the engine compartment to get under the
>>> radiator. Many, many, ‘fixes’ that can be done. However, on
>>> a hot low humidity day.. well good luck. JMO
>>>
>>>> On Jul 18, 2023, at 8:40 PM, Allan Ballard
>>>> <aballard at ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> The article includes several suggestions.
>>>>
>>>> One of them is to seal the missing section of the stock fan
>>>> shroud at the bottom.
>>>>
>>>> A list member offered a piece he fabricated.
>>>>
>>>> I obtained one and here are a couple of pictures. I hope to
>>>> fit it later this year.
>>>>
>>>> Even a few degrees of cooling will be worth the effort.
>>>>
>>>> Allan Ballard
>>>> Mk1a Tiger
>>>>
>>>> <image0.jpeg><image1.jpeg>
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>>> On Jul 18, 2023, at 10:57 PM, Jay Laifman
>>>>> <jay.laifman at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Have you looked at this cooling suggestions?
>>>>> http://tigersunited.com/techtips/SteveLaifmanValance/pt-SteveLaifmanValance1.asp
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> It works great in Southern California heat.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Jul 18, 2023 at 3:42 PM Joe Brown
>>>>> <jbbrown1980 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> My Tiger can't keep up with this 100 degree weather in
>>>>> Texas. I've read through the article by Tiger Tom and
>>>>> Chuck King and I will make some of the suggested
>>>>> modifications. They listed two different pusher
>>>>> electric fans in the article but both of them are no
>>>>> longer available.
>>>>>
>>>>> So, has anybody recently installed a pusher fan? If
>>>>> so, what part numbers?
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>> Joe Brown
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>
>>>>> tigers at autox.team.net
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>>>>>
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