From jbbrown1980 at gmail.com Sat Jul 8 13:25:21 2023 From: jbbrown1980 at gmail.com (Joe Brown) Date: Sat, 8 Jul 2023 14:25:21 -0500 Subject: [Tigers] Car Radio Message-ID: Hi, I recently decided to dig my old radio out of storage and clean it up and put it back in my car. I took everything apart and cleaned and painted as needed. The radio didn't work and I started looking for options. I didn't really want to spend the money to have an AM radio restored and the retro looking new radios are nice but expensive. Then I came across this little Bluetooth stereo amp from Fosi Audio ( https://www.amazon.com/dp/B087FG2YGB?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details ). [image: IMG20230708130811 (1).jpg] I don't remember if somebody on the Tiger list talked about it or if I saw it somewhere else. I figured I can't go wrong for $19.99. I also bought a dual voice coil speaker from Crutchfield that provides stereo sound from one speaker ( https://www.crutchfield.com/p_068D572UK/RetroSound-D-572UK-Dash-Speaker.html). The speaker is a little bigger than the original and I had to cut into the radio to make it fit. I replaced the light bulb in the radio with an led and ran a wire out of the radio bypassing the old stuff in the radio. I hooked this wire up to the wire powering the Bluetooth amp. So the radio lights up but all of the sound coming through the new speaker comes from the Bluetooth amp and I use my phone to select what I want to listen to (Spotify, SiriusXM, etc.). [image: IMG20230708130801.jpg] Have Fun, Joe Brown -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG20230708130801.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 3278090 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG20230708130811 (1).jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 4056367 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jimdamelio at verizon.net Sat Jul 8 16:51:30 2023 From: jimdamelio at verizon.net (Jim D'Amelio) Date: Sat, 08 Jul 2023 18:51:30 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Buyer Beware Message-ID: <1281141144.5817493.1688856695876@verizon.net> Therr is a Tiger currently listed on eBay as auction # 314689565487.? It was sold on BAT last August for $71,500.? It caught my attention because the seller is listed as being in Hampton VA., where I've lived most of my life.? I've messaged the user twice asking if I could see the car before I bid and haven't got a response.? He has zero feedback and just joined eBay on July 3.? The pictures he's using are the ones used on the BAT auction last year.? I don't know of a green Tiger in Hampton except mine.? Of course the Tiger could have moved here from Portland OR since it was sold on BAT.??Just do your research.? ?Someone on Facebook might want to bring this up on that platform.Jim DSent from my Galaxy -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: -932060676_sc_239420.jpeg Type: image/jpeg Size: 239420 bytes Desc: not available URL: From owain.lloyd at gmail.com Sun Jul 9 02:18:13 2023 From: owain.lloyd at gmail.com (Owain Lloyd) Date: Sun, 9 Jul 2023 10:18:13 +0200 Subject: [Tigers] Mountain passes Message-ID: I just sent this to Jerry and thought why not send it to the list. Happy Sunday tiger folks. I?ve not used the tiger in about 2 years for various reasons and am about to strip it down and start a restoration. Before doing so I took it on a nice 600 mile or so tour of some mountain passes around st moritz. Apart from a moment of boiling fuel 30 minutes after leaving home in sweltering heat, it performed flawlessly. Coolant temp moved from 85 Celsius and using evans waterless too. (Mentioned for your reference Buck) Here are some clips taken with my rayban stories sunglasses. As you can see we had some fun in esteemed car company. https://youtu.be/RZniKE4mwD0 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From michael.s.king at gmail.com Sun Jul 9 03:25:26 2023 From: michael.s.king at gmail.com (michael king) Date: Sun, 9 Jul 2023 17:25:26 +0800 Subject: [Tigers] Mountain passes In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Owain, Awesome video, and indeed some exultant company... is that a legit 250SWB or a rebody of a 250PF? Either way, absolutely gorgeous and the sound...! Thanks for sharing. On Sun, 9 Jul 2023 at 16:27, Owain Lloyd wrote: > I just sent this to Jerry and thought why not send it to the list. Happy > Sunday tiger folks. > > I?ve not used the tiger in about 2 years for various reasons and am about > to strip it down and start a restoration. Before doing so I took it on a > nice 600 mile or so tour of some mountain passes around st moritz. > > Apart from a moment of boiling fuel 30 minutes after leaving home in > sweltering heat, it performed flawlessly. Coolant temp moved from 85 > Celsius and using evans waterless too. (Mentioned for your reference Buck) > > Here are some clips taken with my rayban stories sunglasses. As you can > see we had some fun in esteemed car company. > > https://youtu.be/RZniKE4mwD0 > > _______________________________________________ > > tigers at autox.team.net > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers > http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/michael.s.king at gmail.com > > > -- Regards Michael King -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From owain.lloyd at gmail.com Sun Jul 9 04:01:21 2023 From: owain.lloyd at gmail.com (Owain Lloyd) Date: Sun, 9 Jul 2023 12:01:21 +0200 Subject: [Tigers] Mountain passes In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Yup, It?s a real one. And an ex works famous one too with special heads and carbs from the factory. Absolutely gorgeous. On Sun, 9 Jul 2023 at 11:25, michael king wrote: > Owain, > > Awesome video, and indeed some exultant company... is that a legit > 250SWB or a rebody of a 250PF? Either way, absolutely gorgeous and the > sound...! Thanks for sharing. > > On Sun, 9 Jul 2023 at 16:27, Owain Lloyd wrote: > >> I just sent this to Jerry and thought why not send it to the list. Happy >> Sunday tiger folks. >> >> I?ve not used the tiger in about 2 years for various reasons and am about >> to strip it down and start a restoration. Before doing so I took it on a >> nice 600 mile or so tour of some mountain passes around st moritz. >> >> Apart from a moment of boiling fuel 30 minutes after leaving home in >> sweltering heat, it performed flawlessly. Coolant temp moved from 85 >> Celsius and using evans waterless too. (Mentioned for your reference Buck) >> >> Here are some clips taken with my rayban stories sunglasses. As you can >> see we had some fun in esteemed car company. >> >> https://youtu.be/RZniKE4mwD0 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> tigers at autox.team.net >> >> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers >> http://autox.team.net/archive >> >> Unsubscribe: >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/michael.s.king at gmail.com >> >> >> > > -- > Regards > > Michael King > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jay.laifman at gmail.com Sun Jul 9 17:25:09 2023 From: jay.laifman at gmail.com (Jay Laifman) Date: Sun, 9 Jul 2023 16:25:09 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Mountain passes In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Great video. But it leaves me confused. Why would someone stop such immediate and available enjoyment to restore it? Personally, I'd rather keep enjoying my car than the process of restoration, and the sometimes ever extending finish date. On Sun, Jul 9, 2023 at 1:30?AM Owain Lloyd wrote: > I just sent this to Jerry and thought why not send it to the list. Happy > Sunday tiger folks. > > I?ve not used the tiger in about 2 years for various reasons and am about > to strip it down and start a restoration. Before doing so I took it on a > nice 600 mile or so tour of some mountain passes around st moritz. > > Apart from a moment of boiling fuel 30 minutes after leaving home in > sweltering heat, it performed flawlessly. Coolant temp moved from 85 > Celsius and using evans waterless too. (Mentioned for your reference Buck) > > Here are some clips taken with my rayban stories sunglasses. As you can > see we had some fun in esteemed car company. > > https://youtu.be/RZniKE4mwD0 > > _______________________________________________ > > tigers at autox.team.net > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers > http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/jay.laifman at gmail.com > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From owain.lloyd at gmail.com Mon Jul 10 00:00:22 2023 From: owain.lloyd at gmail.com (Owain Lloyd) Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2023 08:00:22 +0200 Subject: [Tigers] Mountain passes In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Yes I feel the same way. But sadly I can?t really drive it here normally as it?s registered in another country and would be impossible to register here without being restored to original condition. As it happened I wasn?t stopped this weekend but if I drove it regularly I would be. Also the insurance was only a temporary 1 month policy. On Mon, 10 Jul 2023 at 01:25, Jay Laifman wrote: > Great video. But it leaves me confused. Why would someone stop such > immediate and available enjoyment to restore it? Personally, I'd rather > keep enjoying my car than the process of restoration, and the sometimes > ever extending finish date. > > On Sun, Jul 9, 2023 at 1:30?AM Owain Lloyd wrote: > >> I just sent this to Jerry and thought why not send it to the list. Happy >> Sunday tiger folks. >> >> I?ve not used the tiger in about 2 years for various reasons and am about >> to strip it down and start a restoration. Before doing so I took it on a >> nice 600 mile or so tour of some mountain passes around st moritz. >> >> Apart from a moment of boiling fuel 30 minutes after leaving home in >> sweltering heat, it performed flawlessly. Coolant temp moved from 85 >> Celsius and using evans waterless too. (Mentioned for your reference Buck) >> >> Here are some clips taken with my rayban stories sunglasses. As you can >> see we had some fun in esteemed car company. >> >> https://youtu.be/RZniKE4mwD0 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> tigers at autox.team.net >> >> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers >> http://autox.team.net/archive >> >> Unsubscribe: >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/jay.laifman at gmail.com >> >> >> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image_50732801.JPG Type: image/heic Size: 2913841 bytes Desc: not available URL: From sosnaenergyconsulting at gmail.com Mon Jul 10 12:39:39 2023 From: sosnaenergyconsulting at gmail.com (David Sosna) Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2023 11:39:39 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Mountain passes In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Owain: Sounds like there's a really interesting story there. ? Best Regards David Sosna On 7/9/23 23:00, Owain Lloyd via Tigers wrote: > Yes I feel the same way.? But sadly I can?t really drive it here > normally as it?s registered in another country and would be impossible > to register here without being restored to original condition. ? As it > happened I wasn?t stopped this weekend but if I drove it regularly I > would be. ? Also the insurance was only a temporary 1 month policy. > > > > On Mon, 10 Jul 2023 at 01:25, Jay Laifman wrote: > > Great video.? But it leaves me confused.? Why would someone stop > such immediate and available enjoyment to restore it?? Personally, > I'd rather keep enjoying my car than the process of restoration, > and the sometimes ever extending finish date. > > On Sun, Jul 9, 2023 at 1:30?AM Owain Lloyd > wrote: > > I just sent this to Jerry and thought why not send it to the > list.? Happy Sunday tiger folks. > > I?ve not used the tiger in about 2 years for various reasons > and am about to strip it down and start a restoration.? Before > doing so I took it on a nice 600 mile or so tour of some > mountain passes around st moritz. > > Apart from a moment of boiling fuel 30 minutes after leaving > home in sweltering heat, it performed flawlessly. ? Coolant > temp moved from 85 Celsius and using evans waterless too. > ?(Mentioned for your reference Buck) > > Here are some clips taken with my rayban stories sunglasses.? > As you can see we had some fun in esteemed car company. > > https://youtu.be/RZniKE4mwD0 > > _______________________________________________ > > tigers at autox.team.net > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers > http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/jay.laifman at gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > > tigers at autox.team.net > > Donate:http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive:http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe:http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/sosnaenergyconsulting at cox.net > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From garywinblad at comcast.net Mon Jul 10 20:30:26 2023 From: garywinblad at comcast.net (Gary) Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2023 19:30:26 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Mountain passes In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <299184FD-0B23-4CCA-A759-8FE100B6F11A@comcast.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lpaulick1 at verizon.net Sat Jul 15 13:18:09 2023 From: lpaulick1 at verizon.net (LARRY PAULICK) Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2023 15:18:09 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Heater face plate References: Message-ID: Has anyone restored the heater/air vent faceplate? I had an old adhesive backed decal that most of sat for 30 years that I could no longer use. I would be up to any methods. Thanks Larry From W_Pierzga at msn.com Mon Jul 17 11:27:11 2023 From: W_Pierzga at msn.com (Wayne Pierzga) Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2023 17:27:11 +0000 Subject: [Tigers] Heater face plate In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Larry Have you considered applying clear over your old adhesive backed decals to set them in place (or applying clear then setting the decal using wax paper? Otherwise, I used dry-transfer letters sourced at an arts store. Bit tedious but you are only doing a few words. Good luck Wayne -----Original Message----- From: LARRY PAULICK Sent: Saturday, July 15, 2023 3:18 PM To: tigers at autox.team.net Subject: [Tigers] Heater face plate Has anyone restored the heater/air vent faceplate? I had an old adhesive backed decal that most of sat for 30 years that I could no longer use. I would be up to any methods. Thanks Larry From jbbrown1980 at gmail.com Mon Jul 17 13:38:01 2023 From: jbbrown1980 at gmail.com (Joe Brown) Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2023 14:38:01 -0500 Subject: [Tigers] Heater face plate In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I got all of my dash lettering from Paul Breuhan at prbreuhan at yahoo.com On Sat, Jul 15, 2023 at 2:36?PM LARRY PAULICK via Tigers < tigers at autox.team.net> wrote: > Has anyone restored the heater/air vent faceplate? I had an old adhesive > backed decal that most of sat for 30 years that I could no longer use. I > would be up to any methods. > > Thanks > > Larry > _______________________________________________ > > tigers at autox.team.net > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers > http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/jbbrown1980 at gmail.com > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lpaulick1 at verizon.net Mon Jul 17 14:08:41 2023 From: lpaulick1 at verizon.net (LARRY PAULICK) Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2023 16:08:41 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Heater face plate In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <67A8F396-8EDD-4001-B686-6B55B808051C@verizon.net> Thanks Joe, I'm gonna try putting a coat of clearcoat on top of the original and see how it turns out. I redid my dash with new veneer, and went with a replica of the original fonts that turned out well, but I'm looking for something that is quicker I appreciate your suggestion. > On Jul 17, 2023, at 3:38 PM, Joe Brown wrote: > > I got all of my dash lettering from Paul Breuhan at > prbreuhan at yahoo.com > On Sat, Jul 15, 2023 at 2:36?PM LARRY PAULICK via Tigers > wrote: >> Has anyone restored the heater/air vent faceplate? I had an old adhesive backed decal that most of sat for 30 years that I could no longer use. I would be up to any methods. >> >> Thanks >> >> Larry >> _______________________________________________ >> >> tigers at autox.team.net >> >> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive >> >> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/jbbrown1980 at gmail.com >> >> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jim at island.net Mon Jul 17 15:50:44 2023 From: jim at island.net (Jim) Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2023 14:50:44 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Heater face plate In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9F1E570F-6BDC-4BE8-AFC4-0DF0B805A620@island.net> I redid mine and a few others a few years back. Shot the bezel with some low sheen black. Got a graphics place to do some rub down lettering and took me a long time to find and ?tweak? the proper font. A bit pricey as they first had to create a ?negative? ($40 but reusable?4? x 5? with as many rows as would fit) to make the rub down sheet which was another $32 I think. Looked perfect when done!! Sent from my ShoePhone > On Jul 17, 2023, at 12:07 PM, Wayne Pierzga via Tigers wrote: > > ?Hi Larry > > Have you considered applying clear over your old adhesive backed decals to set them in place (or applying clear then setting the decal using wax paper? Otherwise, I used dry-transfer letters sourced at an arts store. Bit tedious but you are only doing a few words. > > Good luck > Wayne > > -----Original Message----- > From: LARRY PAULICK > Sent: Saturday, July 15, 2023 3:18 PM > To: tigers at autox.team.net > Subject: [Tigers] Heater face plate > > Has anyone restored the heater/air vent faceplate? I had an old adhesive backed decal that most of sat for 30 years that I could no longer use. I would be up to any methods. > > Thanks > > Larry > _______________________________________________ > > tigers at autox.team.net > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/jim at island.net > > From robin02 at mindspring.com Tue Jul 18 10:04:23 2023 From: robin02 at mindspring.com (robin02 at mindspring.com) Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2023 12:04:23 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Heater face plate In-Reply-To: <9F1E570F-6BDC-4BE8-AFC4-0DF0B805A620@island.net> References: <9F1E570F-6BDC-4BE8-AFC4-0DF0B805A620@island.net> Message-ID: <03e301d9b991$85917840$90b468c0$@mindspring.com> Jim, I was fortunate to need this when you were doing yours. It has been about 18 years. Thank you again for doing mine. It looked factory fresh! Robin Young From sixtysixtiger at hotmail.com Tue Jul 18 13:26:10 2023 From: sixtysixtiger at hotmail.com (AC SunbeamTiger) Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2023 19:26:10 +0000 Subject: [Tigers] Heater face plate In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: https://sunbeamcarparts.co.uk/interior/dashboard/sunbeam-heater-control-bezel-labels On 7/17/23 10:27, Wayne Pierzga via Tigers wrote: > Hi Larry > > Have you considered applying clear over your old adhesive backed decals to set them in place (or applying clear then setting the decal using wax paper? Otherwise, I used dry-transfer letters sourced at an arts store. Bit tedious but you are only doing a few words. > > Good luck > Wayne > > -----Original Message----- > From: LARRY PAULICK > Sent: Saturday, July 15, 2023 3:18 PM > To: tigers at autox.team.net > Subject: [Tigers] Heater face plate > > Has anyone restored the heater/air vent faceplate? I had an old adhesive backed decal that most of sat for 30 years that I could no longer use. I would be up to any methods. > > Thanks > > Larry > _______________________________________________ > > tigers at autox.team.net > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/sixtysixtiger at hotmail.com > > From jbbrown1980 at gmail.com Tue Jul 18 14:38:52 2023 From: jbbrown1980 at gmail.com (Joe Brown) Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2023 15:38:52 -0500 Subject: [Tigers] Cooling Fan Message-ID: My Tiger can't keep up with this 100 degree weather in Texas. I've read through the article by Tiger Tom and Chuck King and I will make some of the suggested modifications. They listed two different pusher electric fans in the article but both of them are no longer available. So, has anybody recently installed a pusher fan? If so, what part numbers? Thanks, Joe Brown -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From scattt at verizon.net Tue Jul 18 17:08:30 2023 From: scattt at verizon.net (scattt at verizon.net) Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2023 19:08:30 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Heater face plate In-Reply-To: <03e301d9b991$85917840$90b468c0$@mindspring.com> References: <9F1E570F-6BDC-4BE8-AFC4-0DF0B805A620@island.net> <03e301d9b991$85917840$90b468c0$@mindspring.com> Message-ID: <001301d9b9cc$c5b43990$511cacb0$@verizon.net> Ditto for me, I got several. Nick Kintner -----Original Message----- From: Tigers On Behalf Of robin02--- via Tigers Sent: Tuesday, July 18, 2023 12:04 PM To: 'Jim' ; 'Wayne Pierzga' Cc: tigers at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Tigers] Heater face plate Jim, I was fortunate to need this when you were doing yours. It has been about 18 years. Thank you again for doing mine. It looked factory fresh! Robin Young _______________________________________________ tigers at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/scattt at verizon.net From jbsyv at yahoo.com Tue Jul 18 18:08:13 2023 From: jbsyv at yahoo.com (Jim Buster) Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2023 17:08:13 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Spal References: Message-ID: Zoom in for the numbers -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_2106.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 28482 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- From jbsyv at yahoo.com Tue Jul 18 18:09:10 2023 From: jbsyv at yahoo.com (Jim Buster) Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2023 17:09:10 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Cooling Fan In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0BD327F7-4F4E-4239-BC22-15E18C754E46@yahoo.com> Joe. When I replaced my radiator with a Griffin it came as a package deal with a shroud an electric fan. As thin as that shroud was it didn?t fit. So I put it in front of the radiator. It?s a Spal. If you zoom into the picture you can see the number. I sent a separate email with the picture. Jim B > On Jul 18, 2023, at 3:30 PM, Joe Brown wrote: > > ? > My Tiger can't keep up with this 100 degree weather in Texas. I've read through the article by Tiger Tom and Chuck King and I will make some of the suggested modifications. They listed two different pusher electric fans in the article but both of them are no longer available. > > So, has anybody recently installed a pusher fan? If so, what part numbers? > > Thanks, > Joe Brown > _______________________________________________ > > tigers at autox.team.net > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/jbsyv at yahoo.com > > From maliburevue at yahoo.com Tue Jul 18 18:11:14 2023 From: maliburevue at yahoo.com (Gary) Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2023 00:11:14 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Tigers] Cooling Fan In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1642710170.2119915.1689725474396@mail.yahoo.com> I can't remember which pusher fan I installed 20 years ago, but here is the installation configuration I used. There are 4 threaded holes on the forward bulkhead, 2 on each side of the radiator. I removed the radiator, laid the fan inside the radiator opening, and installed 1" aluminum straps left to right and top to bottom. I then mounted the fan on the vertical straps, all painted flat black. See pic. Only the lower holes are visable from the front. The upper 2 holes are up underneath the front cowl. Instead of having the original single throw switch for the panel lighting, I wired my panel lighting to the center position of the double throw main light switch, and use that dash opening for the fan switch.?I then use an original double throw light switch to manually operate the fan and my fuel pump, down position - off, middle position - fuel pump, top position - fan and fuel pump. The fuel pump operates in both the middle and up positions, but the fan only operates in the up position. That way I can drive the car normally and turn on the fan as needed without turning off the fuel pump. Turning that switch off also acts a secondary theft deterent. When I turn on the pusher fan, I can actually watch the gauge move downward 15?-20? within 30 seconds. Gary On Tuesday, July 18, 2023 at 04:30:52 PM MDT, Joe Brown wrote: My Tiger can't keep up with this 100 degree weather in Texas.? I've read through the article by Tiger Tom and Chuck King and I will make some of the suggested modifications.? They listed two different pusher electric fans in the article but both of them are no longer available. So, has anybody recently installed a pusher fan?? If so, what part numbers? Thanks,Joe Brown_______________________________________________ tigers at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/maliburevue at yahoo.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Pusher Fan 2.JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 52224 bytes Desc: not available URL: From sosnaenergyconsulting at gmail.com Tue Jul 18 18:30:21 2023 From: sosnaenergyconsulting at gmail.com (David Sosna) Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2023 17:30:21 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Cooling Fan In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <549ffdff-acc0-28fc-74c7-2b11343a93ab@gmail.com> Hi Joe: Semi-unrelated answer:? Have you thought about fabricating a fiberglass full fan shroud?? Also, cudgeling my memory, I seem to recall that the Tiger tended to suck hot air from the engine compartment forward, creating a hot-air loop back through the radiator.? Don't know if the full fan shroud would prevent this, but I was reading a book by Dennis Ortenburger about Frank Costin, who often used fully ducted radiators in his designs.? I apologize that I've no idea how to accomplish that ducting on a Tiger, though I suspect one or both of the solutions would benefit the Tiger's cooling at low speeds. If it isn't too much trouble, would you please keep us updated with your solutions and their effectiveness?? My Tiger is long gone, but my interest remains. ? Good luck to you and Best Regards David Sosna On 7/18/23 13:38, Joe Brown wrote: > My Tiger can't keep up with this 100 degree weather in Texas.? I've > read through the article by Tiger Tom and Chuck King and I will make > some of the suggested modifications.? They listed two different pusher > electric fans in the article but both of them are no longer available. > > So, has anybody recently installed a pusher fan?? If so, what part > numbers? > > Thanks, > Joe Brown > > _______________________________________________ > > tigers at autox.team.net > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/sosnaenergyconsulting at cox.net > > From jay.laifman at gmail.com Tue Jul 18 18:44:49 2023 From: jay.laifman at gmail.com (Jay Laifman) Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2023 17:44:49 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Cooling Fan In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Have you looked at this cooling suggestions? http://tigersunited.com/techtips/SteveLaifmanValance/pt-SteveLaifmanValance1.asp It works great in Southern California heat. On Tue, Jul 18, 2023 at 3:42?PM Joe Brown wrote: > My Tiger can't keep up with this 100 degree weather in Texas. I've read > through the article by Tiger Tom and Chuck King and I will make some of the > suggested modifications. They listed two different pusher electric fans in > the article but both of them are no longer available. > > So, has anybody recently installed a pusher fan? If so, what part numbers? > > Thanks, > Joe Brown > _______________________________________________ > > tigers at autox.team.net > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers > http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/jay.laifman at gmail.com > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sosnaenergyconsulting at gmail.com Tue Jul 18 21:23:47 2023 From: sosnaenergyconsulting at gmail.com (David Sosna) Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2023 20:23:47 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Cooling Fan In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Jay: Big Smile here--Your dad...I miss him too.? What a guy.? He provided so many options beyond the two I was thinking of. Be Well David On 7/18/23 17:44, Jay Laifman wrote: > Have you looked at this cooling suggestions? > http://tigersunited.com/techtips/SteveLaifmanValance/pt-SteveLaifmanValance1.asp > > > It works great in Southern California heat. > > On Tue, Jul 18, 2023 at 3:42?PM Joe Brown wrote: > > My Tiger can't keep up with this 100 degree weather in Texas.? > I've read through the article by Tiger Tom and Chuck King and I > will make some of the suggested modifications.? They listed two > different pusher electric fans in the article but both of them are > no longer available. > > So, has anybody recently installed a pusher fan?? If so, what part > numbers? > > Thanks, > Joe Brown > _______________________________________________ > > tigers at autox.team.net > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers > http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/jay.laifman at gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > > tigers at autox.team.net > > Donate:http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive:http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe:http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/sosnaenergyconsulting at cox.net > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From michael.s.king at gmail.com Tue Jul 18 21:30:34 2023 From: michael.s.king at gmail.com (michael king) Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2023 11:30:34 +0800 Subject: [Tigers] Cooling Fan In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Joe, what exactly are the cooling issues you are having? Are you over heating in stop go traffic? Is the car spitting coolant? Is the car over heating while driving around? Is it just the gauge reading high? What temps are you seeing ? What kind of motor do you have? Is it modified? What cooling system do you have now.. what condition is it in? There are many types of overheating issues.. caused by different things... Then there are time where people think the car is overheating when it's not... You don't really define the issues you have. On Wed, 19 July 2023, 6:38 am Joe Brown, wrote: > My Tiger can't keep up with this 100 degree weather in Texas. I've read > through the article by Tiger Tom and Chuck King and I will make some of the > suggested modifications. They listed two different pusher electric fans in > the article but both of them are no longer available. > > So, has anybody recently installed a pusher fan? If so, what part numbers? > > Thanks, > Joe Brown > _______________________________________________ > > tigers at autox.team.net > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers > http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/michael.s.king at gmail.com > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From aballard at ix.netcom.com Tue Jul 18 21:40:52 2023 From: aballard at ix.netcom.com (Allan Ballard) Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2023 23:40:52 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Cooling Fan In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6FDF8D09-C40B-4D76-AD81-8605A8F40EEC@ix.netcom.com> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image0.jpeg Type: image/jpeg Size: 1594720 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image1.jpeg Type: image/jpeg Size: 1947714 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jbsyv at yahoo.com Tue Jul 18 23:33:57 2023 From: jbsyv at yahoo.com (Jim B) Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2023 22:33:57 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Cooling Fan In-Reply-To: <6FDF8D09-C40B-4D76-AD81-8605A8F40EEC@ix.netcom.com> References: <6FDF8D09-C40B-4D76-AD81-8605A8F40EEC@ix.netcom.com> Message-ID: <07BDC314-5511-4EEE-AB50-EDB54A6DEDA0@yahoo.com> I?ve been reading about cooling issues with tigers for more that a decade (much less than some reading this) blocking horn holes, pusher fans, and shrouds etc etc. Entire studies have been done on this issue. Just check STOA, CAT or any club site. All good reads! I think the first place to start is knowing what the actual engine team really is. We all know that the original temp guage can be off. The other thing is: as a dyed in the wool ford guy, 185 degrees is the optimal engine temp. But, Ford engines can get to 195-200 degrees easily and that is not necessarily a bad thing. Yes, I put a pusher in mine only because I had one. I?m not really sure is does anything. My original guage can show 225-230 on a hot day (humidity plays a bitg role) but never has pucked out fluid. The design of the should is an issue. It lets hot air from the engine compartment to get under the radiator. Many, many, ?fixes? that can be done. However, on a hot low humidity day.. well good luck. JMO > On Jul 18, 2023, at 8:40 PM, Allan Ballard wrote: > > The article includes several suggestions. > > One of them is to seal the missing section of the stock fan shroud at the bottom. > > A list member offered a piece he fabricated. > > I obtained one and here are a couple of pictures. I hope to fit it later this year. > > Even a few degrees of cooling will be worth the effort. > > Allan Ballard > Mk1a Tiger > ?? > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Jul 18, 2023, at 10:57 PM, Jay Laifman wrote: >> >> ? >> Have you looked at this cooling suggestions? http://tigersunited.com/techtips/SteveLaifmanValance/pt-SteveLaifmanValance1.asp >> >> It works great in Southern California heat. >> >> On Tue, Jul 18, 2023 at 3:42?PM Joe Brown > wrote: >>> My Tiger can't keep up with this 100 degree weather in Texas. I've read through the article by Tiger Tom and Chuck King and I will make some of the suggested modifications. They listed two different pusher electric fans in the article but both of them are no longer available. >>> >>> So, has anybody recently installed a pusher fan? If so, what part numbers? >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Joe Brown >>> _______________________________________________ >>> >>> tigers at autox.team.net >>> >>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive >>> >>> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/jay.laifman at gmail.com >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> tigers at autox.team.net >> >> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive >> >> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/aballard at ix.netcom.com >> >> > _______________________________________________ > > tigers at autox.team.net > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/jbsyv at yahoo.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... 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Name: image1.jpeg Type: image/jpeg Size: 722244 bytes Desc: not available URL: From owain.lloyd at gmail.com Wed Jul 19 00:03:04 2023 From: owain.lloyd at gmail.com (Owain Lloyd) Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2023 08:03:04 +0200 Subject: [Tigers] Cooling Fan In-Reply-To: <07BDC314-5511-4EEE-AB50-EDB54A6DEDA0@yahoo.com> References: <6FDF8D09-C40B-4D76-AD81-8605A8F40EEC@ix.netcom.com> <07BDC314-5511-4EEE-AB50-EDB54A6DEDA0@yahoo.com> Message-ID: I think michael hit the nail on the head. first need to know is it overheating when stationary / moving slowly or at speed? a pusher fan will only help at very low speed or when stopped. and spal is the go to brand. still need the horn holes and gap between cross member and rad blocked. cardboard and zip ties does the trick quickly and can be replaced with a more permanent solution later if you want. also need a fan shroud. personally i've never needed the electric pusher fan because i have a small 13" flex fan on the water pump pulley. that creates enough pull through the radiator at idle. if its overheating at more than 30/40mph then its another problem entirely and there are a variety of other things to check. in my case its fuel boiling in the carb under certain conditions (slowing down after running fast in really high ambient temps above a particular altitude) rather than coolant temp which is the problem. there are a bunch of things i could do there, most importantly a carb heat shield, but i've only suffered from it once. one thing i've found very useful for debugging cooling issues in the tiger over the years is having a glass gano filter in the rad top hose. at least you can see how the coolant is circulating which helps with thermostat or water pump issues and if you're used to how it should look, even how blocked the radiator is. On Wed, Jul 19, 2023 at 7:41?AM Jim B via Tigers wrote: > I?ve been reading about cooling issues with tigers for more that a decade > (much less than some reading this) blocking horn holes, pusher fans, and > shrouds etc etc. Entire studies have been done on this issue. Just check > STOA, CAT or any club site. All good reads! I think the first place to > start is knowing what the actual engine team really is. We all know that > the original temp guage can be off. The other thing is: as a dyed in the > wool ford guy, 185 degrees is the optimal engine temp. But, Ford engines > can get to 195-200 degrees easily and that is not necessarily a bad thing. > Yes, I put a pusher in mine only because I had one. I?m not really sure is > does anything. My original guage can show 225-230 on a hot day (humidity > plays a bitg role) but never has pucked out fluid. The design of the should > is an issue. It lets hot air from the engine compartment to get under the > radiator. Many, many, ?fixes? that can be done. However, on a hot low > humidity day.. well good luck. JMO > > On Jul 18, 2023, at 8:40 PM, Allan Ballard wrote: > > The article includes several suggestions. > > One of them is to seal the missing section of the stock fan shroud at the > bottom. > > A list member offered a piece he fabricated. > > I obtained one and here are a couple of pictures. I hope to fit it later > this year. > > Even a few degrees of cooling will be worth the effort. > > Allan Ballard > Mk1a Tiger > > [image: image0.jpeg][image: image1.jpeg] > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Jul 18, 2023, at 10:57 PM, Jay Laifman wrote: > > ? > Have you looked at this cooling suggestions? > http://tigersunited.com/techtips/SteveLaifmanValance/pt-SteveLaifmanValance1.asp > > It works great in Southern California heat. > > On Tue, Jul 18, 2023 at 3:42?PM Joe Brown wrote: > >> My Tiger can't keep up with this 100 degree weather in Texas. I've read >> through the article by Tiger Tom and Chuck King and I will make some of the >> suggested modifications. They listed two different pusher electric fans in >> the article but both of them are no longer available. >> >> So, has anybody recently installed a pusher fan? If so, what part >> numbers? >> >> Thanks, >> Joe Brown >> _______________________________________________ >> >> tigers at autox.team.net >> >> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers >> http://autox.team.net/archive >> >> Unsubscribe: >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/jay.laifman at gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ > > tigers at autox.team.net > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers > http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/aballard at ix.netcom.com > > > _______________________________________________ > > tigers at autox.team.net > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers > http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/jbsyv at yahoo.com > > > _______________________________________________ > > tigers at autox.team.net > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers > http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/owain.lloyd at gmail.com > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image0.jpeg Type: image/jpeg Size: 577091 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image1.jpeg Type: image/jpeg Size: 722244 bytes Desc: not available URL: From lpaulick1 at verizon.net Wed Jul 19 07:11:49 2023 From: lpaulick1 at verizon.net (LARRY PAULICK) Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2023 09:11:49 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Cooling Fan In-Reply-To: References: <6FDF8D09-C40B-4D76-AD81-8605A8F40EEC@ix.netcom.com> <07BDC314-5511-4EEE-AB50-EDB54A6DEDA0@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8A31BF81-2A7E-40D5-ACD6-4E0722532C2B@verizon.net> I made a custom lower fan shroud, as one does not exist for the stock tiger, fan shroud. I did smoke test with the car at idle and the air comes through the radiator down towards the ground and circles back through the radiator again. So essentially you're just recycling hot air from your own radiator. It works. > On Jul 19, 2023, at 2:03 AM, Owain Lloyd wrote: > > I think michael hit the nail on the head. first need to know is it overheating when stationary / moving slowly or at speed? > > a pusher fan will only help at very low speed or when stopped. and spal is the go to brand. still need the horn holes and gap between cross member and rad blocked. cardboard and zip ties does the trick quickly and can be replaced with a more permanent solution later if you want. also need a fan shroud. > > personally i've never needed the electric pusher fan because i have a small 13" flex fan on the water pump pulley. that creates enough pull through the radiator at idle. > > if its overheating at more than 30/40mph then its another problem entirely and there are a variety of other things to check. > > in my case its fuel boiling in the carb under certain conditions (slowing down after running fast in really high ambient temps above a particular altitude) rather than coolant temp which is the problem. there are a bunch of things i could do there, most importantly a carb heat shield, but i've only suffered from it once. > > one thing i've found very useful for debugging cooling issues in the tiger over the years is having a glass gano filter in the rad top hose. at least you can see how the coolant is circulating which helps with thermostat or water pump issues and if you're used to how it should look, even how blocked the radiator is. > > > On Wed, Jul 19, 2023 at 7:41?AM Jim B via Tigers > wrote: >> I?ve been reading about cooling issues with tigers for more that a decade (much less than some reading this) blocking horn holes, pusher fans, and shrouds etc etc. Entire studies have been done on this issue. Just check STOA, CAT or any club site. All good reads! I think the first place to start is knowing what the actual engine team really is. We all know that the original temp guage can be off. The other thing is: as a dyed in the wool ford guy, 185 degrees is the optimal engine temp. But, Ford engines can get to 195-200 degrees easily and that is not necessarily a bad thing. Yes, I put a pusher in mine only because I had one. I?m not really sure is does anything. My original guage can show 225-230 on a hot day (humidity plays a bitg role) but never has pucked out fluid. The design of the should is an issue. It lets hot air from the engine compartment to get under the radiator. Many, many, ?fixes? that can be done. However, on a hot low humidity day.. well good luck. JMO >> >>> On Jul 18, 2023, at 8:40 PM, Allan Ballard > wrote: >>> >>> The article includes several suggestions. >>> >>> One of them is to seal the missing section of the stock fan shroud at the bottom. >>> >>> A list member offered a piece he fabricated. >>> >>> I obtained one and here are a couple of pictures. I hope to fit it later this year. >>> >>> Even a few degrees of cooling will be worth the effort. >>> >>> Allan Ballard >>> Mk1a Tiger >>> >>> >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>>> On Jul 18, 2023, at 10:57 PM, Jay Laifman > wrote: >>>> >>>> ? >>>> Have you looked at this cooling suggestions? http://tigersunited.com/techtips/SteveLaifmanValance/pt-SteveLaifmanValance1.asp >>>> >>>> It works great in Southern California heat. >>>> >>>> On Tue, Jul 18, 2023 at 3:42?PM Joe Brown > wrote: >>>>> My Tiger can't keep up with this 100 degree weather in Texas. I've read through the article by Tiger Tom and Chuck King and I will make some of the suggested modifications. They listed two different pusher electric fans in the article but both of them are no longer available. >>>>> >>>>> So, has anybody recently installed a pusher fan? If so, what part numbers? >>>>> >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> Joe Brown >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> >>>>> tigers at autox.team.net >>>>> >>>>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >>>>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive >>>>> >>>>> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/jay.laifman at gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> >>>> tigers at autox.team.net >>>> >>>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >>>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive >>>> >>>> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/aballard at ix.netcom.com >>>> >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> >>> tigers at autox.team.net >>> >>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive >>> >>> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/jbsyv at yahoo.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> tigers at autox.team.net >> >> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive >> >> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/owain.lloyd at gmail.com >> >> > _______________________________________________ > > tigers at autox.team.net > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/lpaulick1 at verizon.net -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From coolvt at aol.com Wed Jul 19 07:37:17 2023 From: coolvt at aol.com (M Lafayette) Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2023 13:37:17 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Tigers] Cooling Fan In-Reply-To: <8A31BF81-2A7E-40D5-ACD6-4E0722532C2B@verizon.net> References: <6FDF8D09-C40B-4D76-AD81-8605A8F40EEC@ix.netcom.com> <07BDC314-5511-4EEE-AB50-EDB54A6DEDA0@yahoo.com> <8A31BF81-2A7E-40D5-ACD6-4E0722532C2B@verizon.net> Message-ID: <1469301213.2320465.1689773837199@mail.yahoo.com> RE the? added lower fan shroud......does this piece have to be attached after the shroud is in place or can the? the complete modified shroud? be slipped on with the fan in place?? Mark L In a message dated 7/19/2023 9:21:49 AM Eastern Standard Time, tigers at autox.team.net writes:? I made a custom lower fan shroud, as one does not exist for the stock tiger, fan shroud. I did smoke test with the car at idle and the air comes through the radiator down towards the ground and circles back through the radiator again. So essentially you're just recycling hot air from your own radiator. ?It works.? On Jul 19, 2023, at 2:03 AM, Owain Lloyd wrote: ? I think michael hit the nail on the head.? first need to know is it overheating when stationary / moving slowly or at speed??a pusher fan will only help at very low speed or when stopped.? and spal is the go to brand.? ?still need the horn holes and gap between cross member and rad blocked.? cardboard and zip ties does the trick quickly and can be replaced with a more permanent?solution later if you want.? also need a fan shroud.?personally i've never needed the electric pusher fan because i have a small 13" flex fan on the water pump pulley.? that creates enough pull through the radiator at idle.?if its?overheating at more than 30/40mph then its another problem entirely and there are a variety?of other things to check.?in my case its fuel boiling in the carb under certain conditions?(slowing down after running fast in really high ambient temps above a particular altitude) rather than coolant temp which is the problem.? there are a bunch of things i could do there, most importantly a carb heat shield, but i've?only suffered from it once.?one thing i've found very useful for debugging cooling issues in the tiger over the years is having a glass gano filter in the rad top hose.? at least you can see how the coolant is circulating which helps with thermostat or water pump issues and if you're used to how it should look, even how blocked the radiator is.? On Wed, Jul 19, 2023 at 7:41?AM Jim B via Tigers wrote: I?ve been reading?about cooling issues with tigers for more that a decade (much less than some reading this) blocking horn holes, pusher fans, and shrouds etc etc. Entire studies have been done on?this issue. Just check STOA, CAT or any club site. All good reads! I think the first place to start is?knowing what the actual?engine team really is. We all know that the original temp guage can be off. The other thing is: as a dyed in the wool ford guy, 185 degrees is the optimal engine temp. But, Ford engines can get to 195-200 degrees easily and that is not?necessarily a bad thing. Yes, I put a pusher in mine only because I had one. I?m not really sure is does?anything. My?original guage can show 225-230 on ?a hot day (humidity plays a bitg role) but never has pucked out fluid. The design of the should is an?issue. It lets hot air from the engine compartment to get under the radiator. Many, many, ?fixes? that can be?done. However, on a hot low humidity day.. well good luck. JMO On Jul 18, 2023, at 8:40 PM, Allan Ballard wrote: The article includes several suggestions.?One of them is to seal the missing section of the stock fan shroud at the bottom.?A list member offered a piece he fabricated.?I obtained one and here are a couple of pictures. I hope to fit it later this year.?Even a few degrees of cooling will be worth the effort.?Allan BallardMk1a Tiger? Sent from my iPhone On Jul 18, 2023, at 10:57 PM, Jay Laifman wrote: Have you looked at this cooling suggestions? ?http://tigersunited.com/techtips/SteveLaifmanValance/pt-SteveLaifmanValance1.asp?It works great in Southern California heat. On Tue, Jul 18, 2023 at 3:42?PM Joe Brown wrote: My Tiger can't keep up with this 100 degree weather in Texas.? I've read through the article by Tiger Tom and Chuck King and I will make some of the suggested modifications.? They listed two different pusher electric fans in the article but both of them are no longer available.?So, has anybody recently installed a pusher fan?? If so, what part numbers??Thanks,Joe Brown_______________________________________________ tigers at autox.team.net Donate:?http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive:?http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers?http://autox.team.net/archive Unsubscribe:?http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/jay.laifman at gmail.com _______________________________________________ tigers at autox.team.net Donate:?http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive:?http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers?http://autox.team.net/archive Unsubscribe:?http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/aballard at ix.netcom.com _______________________________________________ tigers at autox.team.net Donate:?http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive:?http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers?http://autox.team.net/archive Unsubscribe:?http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/jbsyv at yahoo.com ?_______________________________________________ tigers at autox.team.net Donate:?http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive:?http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers?http://autox.team.net/archive Unsubscribe:?http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/owain.lloyd at gmail.com _______________________________________________ tigers at autox.team.net Donate:?http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive:?http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers?http://autox.team.net/archive Unsubscribe:?http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/lpaulick1 at verizon.net?_______________________________________________ tigers at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/coolvt at aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rfraser at bluefrog.com Wed Jul 19 07:57:45 2023 From: rfraser at bluefrog.com (Ron Fraser) Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2023 09:57:45 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Cooling Fan In-Reply-To: References: <6FDF8D09-C40B-4D76-AD81-8605A8F40EEC@ix.netcom.com> <07BDC314-5511-4EEE-AB50-EDB54A6DEDA0@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <002201d9ba49$00594690$010bd3b0$@bluefrog.com> If it is not puking, it is not overheating. A good adage. You need to examine the basics of the cooling system first. You need to know your cooling system is clean and free flowing before you begin evaluating any cooling problems. The temp gauge should always be checked by other means ? infrared thermometer or other means Flush the engine plus flush and back flush the heater core ? you might be surprised how much crap accumulates in the heater core. Years ago there were some very good flush products on the market, today not so much. The last time I flushed a cooling system I used Thermocure by Evaporust ? this product seems to work. Many years ago my engine puked so I flushed the engine. I cleared the heater core which took nearly an hour before the crap stopped come out of it. I installed a coolant recovery bottle ? coolant on the front left tire is not good in a right turn. I have the Ford 6 bladed fan on my mostly stock 260 engine. No major overheating problem since. After expressway runs into slower traffic I watch the temp gauge and pop the hood if the temp spikes past 200. Read the cooling articles for additional advice and ideas about dealing with any cooling issues you still have. Ron Fraser From: Tigers On Behalf Of Owain Lloyd Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2023 2:03 AM To: Jim B Cc: tigers at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Tigers] Cooling Fan I think michael hit the nail on the head. first need to know is it overheating when stationary / moving slowly or at speed? a pusher fan will only help at very low speed or when stopped. and spal is the go to brand. still need the horn holes and gap between cross member and rad blocked. cardboard and zip ties does the trick quickly and can be replaced with a more permanent solution later if you want. also need a fan shroud. personally i've never needed the electric pusher fan because i have a small 13" flex fan on the water pump pulley. that creates enough pull through the radiator at idle. if its overheating at more than 30/40mph then its another problem entirely and there are a variety of other things to check. in my case its fuel boiling in the carb under certain conditions (slowing down after running fast in really high ambient temps above a particular altitude) rather than coolant temp which is the problem. there are a bunch of things i could do there, most importantly a carb heat shield, but i've only suffered from it once. one thing i've found very useful for debugging cooling issues in the tiger over the years is having a glass gano filter in the rad top hose. at least you can see how the coolant is circulating which helps with thermostat or water pump issues and if you're used to how it should look, even how blocked the radiator is. On Wed, Jul 19, 2023 at 7:41?AM Jim B via Tigers > wrote: I?ve been reading about cooling issues with tigers for more that a decade (much less than some reading this) blocking horn holes, pusher fans, and shrouds etc etc. Entire studies have been done on this issue. Just check STOA, CAT or any club site. All good reads! I think the first place to start is knowing what the actual engine team really is. We all know that the original temp guage can be off. The other thing is: as a dyed in the wool ford guy, 185 degrees is the optimal engine temp. But, Ford engines can get to 195-200 degrees easily and that is not necessarily a bad thing. Yes, I put a pusher in mine only because I had one. I?m not really sure is does anything. My original guage can show 225-230 on a hot day (humidity plays a bitg role) but never has pucked out fluid. The design of the should is an issue. It lets hot air from the engine compartment to get under the radiator. Many, many, ?fixes? that can be done. However, on a hot low humidity day.. well good luck. JMO On Jul 18, 2023, at 8:40 PM, Allan Ballard > wrote: The article includes several suggestions. One of them is to seal the missing section of the stock fan shroud at the bottom. A list member offered a piece he fabricated. I obtained one and here are a couple of pictures. I hope to fit it later this year. Even a few degrees of cooling will be worth the effort. Allan Ballard Mk1a Tiger Sent from my iPhone On Jul 18, 2023, at 10:57 PM, Jay Laifman > wrote: ? Have you looked at this cooling suggestions? http://tigersunited.com/techtips/SteveLaifmanValance/pt-SteveLaifmanValance1.asp It works great in Southern California heat. On Tue, Jul 18, 2023 at 3:42?PM Joe Brown > wrote: My Tiger can't keep up with this 100 degree weather in Texas. I've read through the article by Tiger Tom and Chuck King and I will make some of the suggested modifications. They listed two different pusher electric fans in the article but both of them are no longer available. So, has anybody recently installed a pusher fan? If so, what part numbers? Thanks, Joe Brown _______________________________________________ tigers at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/jay.laifman at gmail.com _______________________________________________ tigers at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/aballard at ix.netcom.com _______________________________________________ tigers at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/jbsyv at yahoo.com _______________________________________________ tigers at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/owain.lloyd at gmail.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 577091 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image002.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 722244 bytes Desc: not available URL: From owain.lloyd at gmail.com Wed Jul 19 08:19:14 2023 From: owain.lloyd at gmail.com (Owain Lloyd) Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2023 16:19:14 +0200 Subject: [Tigers] Cooling Fan In-Reply-To: <002201d9ba49$00594690$010bd3b0$@bluefrog.com> References: <6FDF8D09-C40B-4D76-AD81-8605A8F40EEC@ix.netcom.com> <07BDC314-5511-4EEE-AB50-EDB54A6DEDA0@yahoo.com> <002201d9ba49$00594690$010bd3b0$@bluefrog.com> Message-ID: that does not apply if you use waterless coolant which will never boil or puke before you do damage. also aluminium heads and forged pistons both reduce the max safe temp the engine can handle as the expansion rates are different to the block. On Wed, Jul 19, 2023 at 3:58?PM Ron Fraser wrote: > If it is not puking, it is not overheating. A good adage. > > > > You need to examine the basics of the cooling system first. > > You need to know your cooling system is clean and free flowing before you > begin evaluating any cooling problems. > > > > The temp gauge should always be checked by other means ? infrared > thermometer or other means > > Flush the engine plus flush and back flush the heater core ? you might be > surprised how much crap accumulates in the heater core. > > Years ago there were some very good flush products on the market, today > not so much. > > The last time I flushed a cooling system I used Thermocure by Evaporust ? > this product seems to work. > > > > Many years ago my engine puked so I flushed the engine. I cleared the > heater core which took nearly an hour before the crap stopped come out of > it. > > I installed a coolant recovery bottle ? coolant on the front left tire is > not good in a right turn. > > > > I have the Ford 6 bladed fan on my mostly stock 260 engine. > > No major overheating problem since. After expressway runs into slower > traffic I watch the temp gauge and pop the hood if the temp spikes past 200. > > > > Read the cooling articles for additional advice and ideas about dealing > with any cooling issues you still have. > > > > Ron Fraser > > > > *From:* Tigers *On Behalf Of *Owain Lloyd > *Sent:* Wednesday, July 19, 2023 2:03 AM > *To:* Jim B > *Cc:* tigers at autox.team.net > *Subject:* Re: [Tigers] Cooling Fan > > > > I think michael hit the nail on the head. first need to know is it > overheating when stationary / moving slowly or at speed? > > > > a pusher fan will only help at very low speed or when stopped. and spal > is the go to brand. still need the horn holes and gap between cross > member and rad blocked. cardboard and zip ties does the trick quickly and > can be replaced with a more permanent solution later if you want. also > need a fan shroud. > > > > personally i've never needed the electric pusher fan because i have a > small 13" flex fan on the water pump pulley. that creates enough pull > through the radiator at idle. > > > > if its overheating at more than 30/40mph then its another problem entirely > and there are a variety of other things to check. > > > > in my case its fuel boiling in the carb under certain conditions (slowing > down after running fast in really high ambient temps above a particular > altitude) rather than coolant temp which is the problem. there are a bunch > of things i could do there, most importantly a carb heat shield, but > i've only suffered from it once. > > > > one thing i've found very useful for debugging cooling issues in the tiger > over the years is having a glass gano filter in the rad top hose. at least > you can see how the coolant is circulating which helps with thermostat or > water pump issues and if you're used to how it should look, even how > blocked the radiator is. > > > > > > On Wed, Jul 19, 2023 at 7:41?AM Jim B via Tigers > wrote: > > I?ve been reading about cooling issues with tigers for more that a decade > (much less than some reading this) blocking horn holes, pusher fans, and > shrouds etc etc. Entire studies have been done on this issue. Just check > STOA, CAT or any club site. All good reads! I think the first place to > start is knowing what the actual engine team really is. We all know that > the original temp guage can be off. The other thing is: as a dyed in the > wool ford guy, 185 degrees is the optimal engine temp. But, Ford engines > can get to 195-200 degrees easily and that is not necessarily a bad thing. > Yes, I put a pusher in mine only because I had one. I?m not really sure is > does anything. My original guage can show 225-230 on a hot day (humidity > plays a bitg role) but never has pucked out fluid. The design of the should > is an issue. It lets hot air from the engine compartment to get under the > radiator. Many, many, ?fixes? that can be done. However, on a hot low > humidity day.. well good luck. JMO > > > > On Jul 18, 2023, at 8:40 PM, Allan Ballard wrote: > > > > The article includes several suggestions. > > > > One of them is to seal the missing section of the stock fan shroud at the > bottom. > > > > A list member offered a piece he fabricated. > > > > I obtained one and here are a couple of pictures. I hope to fit it later > this year. > > > > Even a few degrees of cooling will be worth the effort. > > > > Allan Ballard > > Mk1a Tiger > > > > [image: image0.jpeg][image: image1.jpeg] > > Sent from my iPhone > > > > On Jul 18, 2023, at 10:57 PM, Jay Laifman wrote: > > ? > > Have you looked at this cooling suggestions? > http://tigersunited.com/techtips/SteveLaifmanValance/pt-SteveLaifmanValance1.asp > > > > It works great in Southern California heat. > > > > On Tue, Jul 18, 2023 at 3:42?PM Joe Brown wrote: > > My Tiger can't keep up with this 100 degree weather in Texas. I've read > through the article by Tiger Tom and Chuck King and I will make some of the > suggested modifications. They listed two different pusher electric fans in > the article but both of them are no longer available. > > > > So, has anybody recently installed a pusher fan? If so, what part numbers? > > > > Thanks, > > Joe Brown > > _______________________________________________ > > tigers at autox.team.net > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers > http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/jay.laifman at gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > > tigers at autox.team.net > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers > http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/aballard at ix.netcom.com > > _______________________________________________ > > tigers at autox.team.net > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers > http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/jbsyv at yahoo.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > > tigers at autox.team.net > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers > http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/owain.lloyd at gmail.com > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 577091 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image002.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 722244 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jbbrown1980 at gmail.com Wed Jul 19 08:31:56 2023 From: jbbrown1980 at gmail.com (Joe Brown) Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2023 09:31:56 -0500 Subject: [Tigers] Cooling Fan In-Reply-To: <8A31BF81-2A7E-40D5-ACD6-4E0722532C2B@verizon.net> References: <6FDF8D09-C40B-4D76-AD81-8605A8F40EEC@ix.netcom.com> <07BDC314-5511-4EEE-AB50-EDB54A6DEDA0@yahoo.com> <8A31BF81-2A7E-40D5-ACD6-4E0722532C2B@verizon.net> Message-ID: Thanks for all of the replies. I have a mostly stock engine (with Edelbrock intake and 4 bbl.) and stock radiator. I have a temperature gauge mounted on the intake and the engine seems to run a little over 200 at idle but I haven't had any problems while driving the car. My problem right now is that I took the car out one afternoon when the temperature was over 100 degrees and when I pulled into the garage and shut the engine off it puked some water onto the floor. The temp gauge was showing around 250 degrees at that point. I already have the lower shroud on my radiator and I am making some horn opening covers today. I will also look at blocking off the area below the radiator. I have read all of the articles that people have referred to and I believe I have an airflow problem at low speeds. So I was just looking for pusher fan recommendations at this point. The best advice is to probably not drive in 100+ degree weather. Thanks, Joe Brown On Wed, Jul 19, 2023 at 8:33?AM LARRY PAULICK via Tigers < tigers at autox.team.net> wrote: > I made a custom lower fan shroud, as one does not exist for the stock > tiger, fan shroud. I did smoke test with the car at idle and the air comes > through the radiator down towards the ground and circles back through the > radiator again. So essentially you're just recycling hot air from your own > radiator. It works. > > On Jul 19, 2023, at 2:03 AM, Owain Lloyd wrote: > > I think michael hit the nail on the head. first need to know is it > overheating when stationary / moving slowly or at speed? > > a pusher fan will only help at very low speed or when stopped. and spal > is the go to brand. still need the horn holes and gap between cross > member and rad blocked. cardboard and zip ties does the trick quickly and > can be replaced with a more permanent solution later if you want. also > need a fan shroud. > > personally i've never needed the electric pusher fan because i have a > small 13" flex fan on the water pump pulley. that creates enough pull > through the radiator at idle. > > if its overheating at more than 30/40mph then its another problem entirely > and there are a variety of other things to check. > > in my case its fuel boiling in the carb under certain conditions (slowing > down after running fast in really high ambient temps above a particular > altitude) rather than coolant temp which is the problem. there are a bunch > of things i could do there, most importantly a carb heat shield, but > i've only suffered from it once. > > one thing i've found very useful for debugging cooling issues in the tiger > over the years is having a glass gano filter in the rad top hose. at least > you can see how the coolant is circulating which helps with thermostat or > water pump issues and if you're used to how it should look, even how > blocked the radiator is. > > > On Wed, Jul 19, 2023 at 7:41?AM Jim B via Tigers > wrote: > >> I?ve been reading about cooling issues with tigers for more that a decade >> (much less than some reading this) blocking horn holes, pusher fans, and >> shrouds etc etc. Entire studies have been done on this issue. Just check >> STOA, CAT or any club site. All good reads! I think the first place to >> start is knowing what the actual engine team really is. We all know that >> the original temp guage can be off. The other thing is: as a dyed in the >> wool ford guy, 185 degrees is the optimal engine temp. But, Ford engines >> can get to 195-200 degrees easily and that is not necessarily a bad thing. >> Yes, I put a pusher in mine only because I had one. I?m not really sure is >> does anything. My original guage can show 225-230 on a hot day (humidity >> plays a bitg role) but never has pucked out fluid. The design of the should >> is an issue. It lets hot air from the engine compartment to get under the >> radiator. Many, many, ?fixes? that can be done. However, on a hot low >> humidity day.. well good luck. JMO >> >> On Jul 18, 2023, at 8:40 PM, Allan Ballard >> wrote: >> >> The article includes several suggestions. >> >> One of them is to seal the missing section of the stock fan shroud at the >> bottom. >> >> A list member offered a piece he fabricated. >> >> I obtained one and here are a couple of pictures. I hope to fit it later >> this year. >> >> Even a few degrees of cooling will be worth the effort. >> >> Allan Ballard >> Mk1a Tiger >> >> >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Jul 18, 2023, at 10:57 PM, Jay Laifman wrote: >> >> ? >> Have you looked at this cooling suggestions? >> http://tigersunited.com/techtips/SteveLaifmanValance/pt-SteveLaifmanValance1.asp >> >> It works great in Southern California heat. >> >> On Tue, Jul 18, 2023 at 3:42?PM Joe Brown wrote: >> >>> My Tiger can't keep up with this 100 degree weather in Texas. I've read >>> through the article by Tiger Tom and Chuck King and I will make some of the >>> suggested modifications. They listed two different pusher electric fans in >>> the article but both of them are no longer available. >>> >>> So, has anybody recently installed a pusher fan? If so, what part >>> numbers? >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Joe Brown >>> _______________________________________________ >>> >>> tigers at autox.team.net >>> >>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers >>> http://autox.team.net/archive >>> >>> Unsubscribe: >>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/jay.laifman at gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >> >> tigers at autox.team.net >> >> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers >> http://autox.team.net/archive >> >> Unsubscribe: >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/aballard at ix.netcom.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> tigers at autox.team.net >> >> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers >> http://autox.team.net/archive >> >> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/jbsyv at yahoo.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> tigers at autox.team.net >> >> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers >> http://autox.team.net/archive >> >> Unsubscribe: >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/owain.lloyd at gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ > > tigers at autox.team.net > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers > http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/lpaulick1 at verizon.net > > > _______________________________________________ > > tigers at autox.team.net > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers > http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/jbbrown1980 at gmail.com > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jbbrown1980 at gmail.com Wed Jul 19 09:30:29 2023 From: jbbrown1980 at gmail.com (Joe Brown) Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2023 10:30:29 -0500 Subject: [Tigers] Cooling Fan In-Reply-To: <1469301213.2320465.1689773837199@mail.yahoo.com> References: <6FDF8D09-C40B-4D76-AD81-8605A8F40EEC@ix.netcom.com> <07BDC314-5511-4EEE-AB50-EDB54A6DEDA0@yahoo.com> <8A31BF81-2A7E-40D5-ACD6-4E0722532C2B@verizon.net> <1469301213.2320465.1689773837199@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I had my shroud off of the car when I added the lower piece. You have to drill some holes and attach with screws or rivets ( I used rivets). I think it might be hard to drill the hole while the shroud is in the car. If I remember right you will also have to remove the fan to get the shroud back in. Have Fun, Joe Brown On Wed, Jul 19, 2023 at 9:54?AM M Lafayette via Tigers < tigers at autox.team.net> wrote: > RE the added lower fan shroud......does this piece have to be attached > after the shroud is in place or can the the complete modified shroud be > slipped on with the fan in place? Mark L > > In a message dated 7/19/2023 9:21:49 AM Eastern Standard Time, > tigers at autox.team.net writes: > > > I made a custom lower fan shroud, as one does not exist for the stock > tiger, fan shroud. I did smoke test with the car at idle and the air comes > through the radiator down towards the ground and circles back through the > radiator again. So essentially you're just recycling hot air from your own > radiator. It works. > > On Jul 19, 2023, at 2:03 AM, Owain Lloyd wrote: > > > > I think michael hit the nail on the head. first need to know is it > overheating when stationary / moving slowly or at speed? > > a pusher fan will only help at very low speed or when stopped. and spal > is the go to brand. still need the horn holes and gap between cross > member and rad blocked. cardboard and zip ties does the trick quickly and > can be replaced with a more permanent solution later if you want. also > need a fan shroud. > > personally i've never needed the electric pusher fan because i have a > small 13" flex fan on the water pump pulley. that creates enough pull > through the radiator at idle. > > if its overheating at more than 30/40mph then its another problem entirely > and there are a variety of other things to check. > > in my case its fuel boiling in the carb under certain conditions (slowing > down after running fast in really high ambient temps above a particular > altitude) rather than coolant temp which is the problem. there are a bunch > of things i could do there, most importantly a carb heat shield, but > i've only suffered from it once. > > one thing i've found very useful for debugging cooling issues in the tiger > over the years is having a glass gano filter in the rad top hose. at least > you can see how the coolant is circulating which helps with thermostat or > water pump issues and if you're used to how it should look, even how > blocked the radiator is. > > > On Wed, Jul 19, 2023 at 7:41?AM Jim B via Tigers > wrote: > > I?ve been reading about cooling issues with tigers for more that a decade > (much less than some reading this) blocking horn holes, pusher fans, and > shrouds etc etc. Entire studies have been done on this issue. Just check > STOA, CAT or any club site. All good reads! I think the first place to > start is knowing what the actual engine team really is. We all know that > the original temp guage can be off. The other thing is: as a dyed in the > wool ford guy, 185 degrees is the optimal engine temp. But, Ford engines > can get to 195-200 degrees easily and that is not necessarily a bad thing. > Yes, I put a pusher in mine only because I had one. I?m not really sure is > does anything. My original guage can show 225-230 on a hot day (humidity > plays a bitg role) but never has pucked out fluid. The design of the should > is an issue. It lets hot air from the engine compartment to get under the > radiator. Many, many, ?fixes? that can be done. However, on a hot low > humidity day.. well good luck. JMO > > On Jul 18, 2023, at 8:40 PM, Allan Ballard wrote: > > The article includes several suggestions. > > One of them is to seal the missing section of the stock fan shroud at the > bottom. > > A list member offered a piece he fabricated. > > I obtained one and here are a couple of pictures. I hope to fit it later > this year. > > Even a few degrees of cooling will be worth the effort. > > Allan Ballard > Mk1a Tiger > > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Jul 18, 2023, at 10:57 PM, Jay Laifman wrote: > > Have you looked at this cooling suggestions? > http://tigersunited.com/techtips/SteveLaifmanValance/pt-SteveLaifmanValance1.asp > > It works great in Southern California heat. > > On Tue, Jul 18, 2023 at 3:42?PM Joe Brown wrote: > > My Tiger can't keep up with this 100 degree weather in Texas. I've read > through the article by Tiger Tom and Chuck King and I will make some of the > suggested modifications. They listed two different pusher electric fans in > the article but both of them are no longer available. > > So, has anybody recently installed a pusher fan? If so, what part numbers? > > Thanks, > Joe Brown > _______________________________________________ > > tigers at autox.team.net > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers > http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/jay.laifman at gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > > tigers at autox.team.net > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers > http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/aballard at ix.netcom.com > > > _______________________________________________ > > tigers at autox.team.net > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers > http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/jbsyv at yahoo.com > > > _______________________________________________ > > tigers at autox.team.net > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers > http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/owain.lloyd at gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > > tigers at autox.team.net > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers > http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/lpaulick1 at verizon.net > > _______________________________________________ > > tigers at autox.team.net > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers > http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/coolvt at aol.com > > > _______________________________________________ > > tigers at autox.team.net > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers > http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/jbbrown1980 at gmail.com > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From atwittsend at verizon.net Wed Jul 19 10:12:39 2023 From: atwittsend at verizon.net (Tom Witt) Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2023 09:12:39 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Cooling Fan In-Reply-To: <1469301213.2320465.1689773837199@mail.yahoo.com> References: <6FDF8D09-C40B-4D76-AD81-8605A8F40EEC@ix.netcom.com> <07BDC314-5511-4EEE-AB50-EDB54A6DEDA0@yahoo.com> <8A31BF81-2A7E-40D5-ACD6-4E0722532C2B@verizon.net> <1469301213.2320465.1689773837199@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <7d246c4d-74f0-0b8c-9f4d-316bcddc4fdc@verizon.net> I'm sure there are many variations of a lower fan shroud. For someone who likes to consider options this is the style I made. As to the question asked, in my case the lower shroud had to be in place..., then the upper shroud installed. I can't remember the order the fan went on. The second picture doesn't show much but the shroud is in place. The yellow fan is the Volvo fan. I also have what is probably the/last to ever be found? in a Pick Your Part yard/,? coveted *Maverick Fan, - yet to be installed. The Volvo fan was popular because it fit over the larger WP hub on the Tiger. Others have machined the opening or have a replacement WP with the smaller, more common hub. ?* Maybe someone else can remember better but I recall the Maverick fan had to come off a 6 cylinder A/C car used in a short time period. Good luck finding a Maverick today much less the appropriate fan. - OK,? I did a quick search and came up with this: /"//re; the C9DZ8600A fan, (going back a few days here) and it's origins, it came on the earliest mavericks, 69.5 onwards, 6 cylinder engine with A/C ONLY. often referred to as the Canadian fan, it was made in Canada and if you find one in nice enough condition it will probably be stamped accordingly in white. It is lightweight aluminum, 4 rivets per blade, each of the 6 blades blade stamped on the back C9DE (A), fomoco."/ On 7/19/2023 6:37 AM, M Lafayette via Tigers wrote: > RE the? added lower fan shroud......does this piece have to be > attached after the shroud is in place or can the the complete modified > shroud? be slipped on with the fan in place?? Mark L > > In a message dated 7/19/2023 9:21:49 AM Eastern Standard Time, > tigers at autox.team.net writes: > > I made a custom lower fan shroud, as one does not exist for the > stock tiger, fan shroud. I did smoke test with the car at idle and > the air comes through the radiator down towards the ground and > circles back through the radiator again. So essentially you're > just recycling hot air from your own radiator. ?It works. > > On Jul 19, 2023, at 2:03 AM, Owain Lloyd > wrote: > > I think michael hit the nail on the head.? first need to know is > it overheating when stationary / moving slowly or at speed? > a pusher fan will only help at very low speed or when stopped.? > and spal is the go to brand.? ?still need the horn holes and gap > between cross member and rad blocked.? cardboard and zip ties does > the trick quickly and can be replaced with a more > permanent?solution later if you want.? also need a fan shroud. > personally i've never needed the electric pusher fan because i > have a small 13" flex fan on the water pump pulley.? that creates > enough pull through the radiator at idle. > if its?overheating at more than 30/40mph then its another problem > entirely and there are a variety?of other things to check. > in my case its fuel boiling in the carb under certain > conditions?(slowing down after running fast in really high ambient > temps above a particular altitude) rather than coolant temp which > is the problem.? there are a bunch of things i could do there, > most importantly a carb heat shield, but i've?only suffered from > it once. > one thing i've found very useful for debugging cooling issues in > the tiger over the years is having a glass gano filter in the rad > top hose.? at least you can see how the coolant is circulating > which helps with thermostat or water pump issues and if you're > used to how it should look, even how blocked the radiator is. > > On Wed, Jul 19, 2023 at 7:41?AM Jim B via Tigers > wrote: > > I?ve been reading?about cooling issues with tigers for more > that a decade (much less than some reading this) blocking horn > holes, pusher fans, and shrouds etc etc. Entire studies have > been done on?this issue. Just check STOA, CAT or any club > site. All good reads! I think the first place to start > is?knowing what the actual?engine team really is. We all know > that the original temp guage can be off. The other thing is: > as a dyed in the wool ford guy, 185 degrees is the optimal > engine temp. But, Ford engines can get to 195-200 degrees > easily and that is not?necessarily a bad thing. Yes, I put a > pusher in mine only because I had one. I?m not really sure is > does?anything. My?original guage can show 225-230 on ?a hot > day (humidity plays a bitg role) but never has pucked out > fluid. The design of the should is an?issue. It lets hot air > from the engine compartment to get under the radiator. Many, > many, ?fixes? that can be?done. However, on a hot low humidity > day.. well good luck. JMO > > On Jul 18, 2023, at 8:40 PM, Allan Ballard > wrote: > > The article includes several suggestions. > One of them is to seal the missing section of the stock > fan shroud at the bottom. > A list member offered a piece he fabricated. > I obtained one and here are a couple of pictures. I hope > to fit it later this year. > Even a few degrees of cooling will be worth the effort. > Allan Ballard > Mk1a Tiger > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Jul 18, 2023, at 10:57 PM, Jay Laifman > wrote: > > Have you looked at this cooling suggestions? > http://tigersunited.com/techtips/SteveLaifmanValance/pt-SteveLaifmanValance1.asp > > It works great in Southern California heat. > > On Tue, Jul 18, 2023 at 3:42?PM Joe Brown > wrote: > > My Tiger can't keep up with this 100 degree > weather in Texas.? I've read through the article > by Tiger Tom and Chuck King and I will make some > of the suggested modifications. They listed two > different pusher electric fans in the article but > both of them are no longer available. > So, has anybody recently installed a pusher fan?? > If so, what part numbers? > Thanks, > Joe Brown > _______________________________________________ > > tigers at autox.team.net > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers > http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/jay.laifman at gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > > tigers at autox.team.net > > Donate:http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive:http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigershttp://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/aballard at ix.netcom.com > > > _______________________________________________ > > tigers at autox.team.net > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: > http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigershttp://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/jbsyv at yahoo.com > > _______________________________________________ > > tigers at autox.team.net > > Donate:http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive:http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigershttp://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe:http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/owain.lloyd at gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > > tigers at autox.team.net > > Donate:http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive:http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigershttp://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/lpaulick1 at verizon.net > _______________________________________________ > > tigers at autox.team.net > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers > http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/coolvt at aol.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > > tigers at autox.team.net > > Donate:http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive:http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe:http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/atwittsend at verizon.net > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: HWFn1lXOoR0gmBJU.png Type: image/png Size: 847356 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 0R5E7xsOAqgqQUNo.png Type: image/png Size: 606613 bytes Desc: not available URL: From coolvt at aol.com Wed Jul 19 10:13:39 2023 From: coolvt at aol.com (M Lafayette) Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2023 16:13:39 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Tigers] Cooling Fan In-Reply-To: References: <6FDF8D09-C40B-4D76-AD81-8605A8F40EEC@ix.netcom.com> <07BDC314-5511-4EEE-AB50-EDB54A6DEDA0@yahoo.com> <8A31BF81-2A7E-40D5-ACD6-4E0722532C2B@verizon.net> <1469301213.2320465.1689773837199@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <248843846.2424648.1689783219826@mail.yahoo.com> My fan is pretty close to the radiator. I can't remove or install fan with radiator in place.? Will do some more research. In a message dated 7/19/2023 11:30:43 AM Eastern Standard Time, jbbrown1980 at gmail.com writes:? I had my shroud off of the car when I added the lower piece.? You have to drill some holes and attach with screws or rivets ( I used rivets).? I think it might be hard to drill the hole while the shroud is in the car.? If I remember right you will also have to remove the fan to get the shroud back in.?Have Fun,Joe Brown On Wed, Jul 19, 2023 at 9:54?AM M Lafayette via Tigers wrote: RE the? added lower fan shroud......does this piece have to be attached after the shroud is in place or can the? the complete modified shroud? be slipped on with the fan in place?? Mark L In a message dated 7/19/2023 9:21:49 AM Eastern Standard Time, tigers at autox.team.net writes:? I made a custom lower fan shroud, as one does not exist for the stock tiger, fan shroud. I did smoke test with the car at idle and the air comes through the radiator down towards the ground and circles back through the radiator again. So essentially you're just recycling hot air from your own radiator.? It works.? On Jul 19, 2023, at 2:03 AM, Owain Lloyd wrote: ? I think michael hit the nail on the head.? first need to know is it overheating when stationary / moving slowly or at speed??a pusher fan will only help at very low speed or when stopped.? and spal is the go to brand.? ?still need the horn holes and gap between cross member and rad blocked.? cardboard and zip ties does the trick quickly and can be replaced with a more permanent?solution later if you want.? also need a fan shroud.?personally i've never needed the electric pusher fan because i have a small 13" flex fan on the water pump pulley.? that creates enough pull through the radiator at idle.?if its?overheating at more than 30/40mph then its another problem entirely and there are a variety?of other things to check.?in my case its fuel boiling in the carb under certain conditions?(slowing down after running fast in really high ambient temps above a particular altitude) rather than coolant temp which is the problem.? there are a bunch of things i could do there, most importantly a carb heat shield, but i've?only suffered from it once.?one thing i've found very useful for debugging cooling issues in the tiger over the years is having a glass gano filter in the rad top hose.? at least you can see how the coolant is circulating which helps with thermostat or water pump issues and if you're used to how it should look, even how blocked the radiator is.? On Wed, Jul 19, 2023 at 7:41?AM Jim B via Tigers wrote: I?ve been reading?about cooling issues with tigers for more that a decade (much less than some reading this) blocking horn holes, pusher fans, and shrouds etc etc. Entire studies have been done on?this issue. Just check STOA, CAT or any club site. All good reads! I think the first place to start is?knowing what the actual?engine team really is. We all know that the original temp guage can be off. The other thing is: as a dyed in the wool ford guy, 185 degrees is the optimal engine temp. But, Ford engines can get to 195-200 degrees easily and that is not?necessarily a bad thing. Yes, I put a pusher in mine only because I had one. I?m not really sure is does?anything. My?original guage can show 225-230 on ?a hot day (humidity plays a bitg role) but never has pucked out fluid. The design of the should is an?issue. It lets hot air from the engine compartment to get under the radiator. Many, many, ?fixes? that can be?done. However, on a hot low humidity day.. well good luck. JMO On Jul 18, 2023, at 8:40 PM, Allan Ballard wrote: The article includes several suggestions.?One of them is to seal the missing section of the stock fan shroud at the bottom.?A list member offered a piece he fabricated.?I obtained one and here are a couple of pictures. I hope to fit it later this year.?Even a few degrees of cooling will be worth the effort.?Allan BallardMk1a Tiger? Sent from my iPhone On Jul 18, 2023, at 10:57 PM, Jay Laifman wrote: Have you looked at this cooling suggestions? ?http://tigersunited.com/techtips/SteveLaifmanValance/pt-SteveLaifmanValance1.asp?It works great in Southern California heat. On Tue, Jul 18, 2023 at 3:42?PM Joe Brown wrote: My Tiger can't keep up with this 100 degree weather in Texas.? I've read through the article by Tiger Tom and Chuck King and I will make some of the suggested modifications.? They listed two different pusher electric fans in the article but both of them are no longer available.?So, has anybody recently installed a pusher fan?? If so, what part numbers??Thanks,Joe Brown_______________________________________________ tigers at autox.team.net Donate:?http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive:?http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers?http://autox.team.net/archive Unsubscribe:?http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/jay.laifman at gmail.com _______________________________________________ tigers at autox.team.net Donate:?http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive:?http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers?http://autox.team.net/archive Unsubscribe:?http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/aballard at ix.netcom.com _______________________________________________ tigers at autox.team.net Donate:?http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive:?http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers?http://autox.team.net/archive Unsubscribe:?http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/jbsyv at yahoo.com ?_______________________________________________ tigers at autox.team.net Donate:?http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive:?http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers?http://autox.team.net/archive Unsubscribe:?http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/owain.lloyd at gmail.com _______________________________________________ tigers at autox.team.net Donate:?http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive:?http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers?http://autox.team.net/archive Unsubscribe:?http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/lpaulick1 at verizon.net?_______________________________________________ tigers at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/coolvt at aol.com _______________________________________________ tigers at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/jbbrown1980 at gmail.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jay.laifman at gmail.com Wed Jul 19 10:08:06 2023 From: jay.laifman at gmail.com (Jay Laifman) Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2023 09:08:06 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Cooling Fan In-Reply-To: <002201d9ba49$00594690$010bd3b0$@bluefrog.com> References: <6FDF8D09-C40B-4D76-AD81-8605A8F40EEC@ix.netcom.com> <07BDC314-5511-4EEE-AB50-EDB54A6DEDA0@yahoo.com> <002201d9ba49$00594690$010bd3b0$@bluefrog.com> Message-ID: Hmmm. This made me wonder. What about the system that is not puking, but that's because the radiator pressure cap is too high and the rubber hoses are on the verge of popping? I don't know that I've ever seen a coolant system pressure gauge. I wonder if that could be a good idea. On Wed, Jul 19, 2023 at 8:42?AM Ron Fraser wrote: > If it is not puking, it is not overheating. A good adage. > > > > You need to examine the basics of the cooling system first. > > You need to know your cooling system is clean and free flowing before you > begin evaluating any cooling problems. > > > > The temp gauge should always be checked by other means ? infrared > thermometer or other means > > Flush the engine plus flush and back flush the heater core ? you might be > surprised how much crap accumulates in the heater core. > > Years ago there were some very good flush products on the market, today > not so much. > > The last time I flushed a cooling system I used Thermocure by Evaporust ? > this product seems to work. > > > > Many years ago my engine puked so I flushed the engine. I cleared the > heater core which took nearly an hour before the crap stopped come out of > it. > > I installed a coolant recovery bottle ? coolant on the front left tire is > not good in a right turn. > > > > I have the Ford 6 bladed fan on my mostly stock 260 engine. > > No major overheating problem since. After expressway runs into slower > traffic I watch the temp gauge and pop the hood if the temp spikes past 200. > > > > Read the cooling articles for additional advice and ideas about dealing > with any cooling issues you still have. > > > > Ron Fraser > > > > *From:* Tigers *On Behalf Of *Owain Lloyd > *Sent:* Wednesday, July 19, 2023 2:03 AM > *To:* Jim B > *Cc:* tigers at autox.team.net > *Subject:* Re: [Tigers] Cooling Fan > > > > I think michael hit the nail on the head. first need to know is it > overheating when stationary / moving slowly or at speed? > > > > a pusher fan will only help at very low speed or when stopped. and spal > is the go to brand. still need the horn holes and gap between cross > member and rad blocked. cardboard and zip ties does the trick quickly and > can be replaced with a more permanent solution later if you want. also > need a fan shroud. > > > > personally i've never needed the electric pusher fan because i have a > small 13" flex fan on the water pump pulley. that creates enough pull > through the radiator at idle. > > > > if its overheating at more than 30/40mph then its another problem entirely > and there are a variety of other things to check. > > > > in my case its fuel boiling in the carb under certain conditions (slowing > down after running fast in really high ambient temps above a particular > altitude) rather than coolant temp which is the problem. there are a bunch > of things i could do there, most importantly a carb heat shield, but > i've only suffered from it once. > > > > one thing i've found very useful for debugging cooling issues in the tiger > over the years is having a glass gano filter in the rad top hose. at least > you can see how the coolant is circulating which helps with thermostat or > water pump issues and if you're used to how it should look, even how > blocked the radiator is. > > > > > > On Wed, Jul 19, 2023 at 7:41?AM Jim B via Tigers > wrote: > > I?ve been reading about cooling issues with tigers for more that a decade > (much less than some reading this) blocking horn holes, pusher fans, and > shrouds etc etc. Entire studies have been done on this issue. Just check > STOA, CAT or any club site. All good reads! I think the first place to > start is knowing what the actual engine team really is. We all know that > the original temp guage can be off. The other thing is: as a dyed in the > wool ford guy, 185 degrees is the optimal engine temp. But, Ford engines > can get to 195-200 degrees easily and that is not necessarily a bad thing. > Yes, I put a pusher in mine only because I had one. I?m not really sure is > does anything. My original guage can show 225-230 on a hot day (humidity > plays a bitg role) but never has pucked out fluid. The design of the should > is an issue. It lets hot air from the engine compartment to get under the > radiator. Many, many, ?fixes? that can be done. However, on a hot low > humidity day.. well good luck. JMO > > > > On Jul 18, 2023, at 8:40 PM, Allan Ballard wrote: > > > > The article includes several suggestions. > > > > One of them is to seal the missing section of the stock fan shroud at the > bottom. > > > > A list member offered a piece he fabricated. > > > > I obtained one and here are a couple of pictures. I hope to fit it later > this year. > > > > Even a few degrees of cooling will be worth the effort. > > > > Allan Ballard > > Mk1a Tiger > > > > [image: image0.jpeg][image: image1.jpeg] > > Sent from my iPhone > > > > On Jul 18, 2023, at 10:57 PM, Jay Laifman wrote: > > ? > > Have you looked at this cooling suggestions? > http://tigersunited.com/techtips/SteveLaifmanValance/pt-SteveLaifmanValance1.asp > > > > It works great in Southern California heat. > > > > On Tue, Jul 18, 2023 at 3:42?PM Joe Brown wrote: > > My Tiger can't keep up with this 100 degree weather in Texas. I've read > through the article by Tiger Tom and Chuck King and I will make some of the > suggested modifications. They listed two different pusher electric fans in > the article but both of them are no longer available. > > > > So, has anybody recently installed a pusher fan? If so, what part numbers? > > > > Thanks, > > Joe Brown > > _______________________________________________ > > tigers at autox.team.net > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers > http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/jay.laifman at gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > > tigers at autox.team.net > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers > http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/aballard at ix.netcom.com > > _______________________________________________ > > tigers at autox.team.net > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers > http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/jbsyv at yahoo.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > > tigers at autox.team.net > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers > http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/owain.lloyd at gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > > tigers at autox.team.net > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers > http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/jay.laifman at gmail.com > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 577091 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image002.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 722244 bytes Desc: not available URL: From coolvt at aol.com Wed Jul 19 12:58:11 2023 From: coolvt at aol.com (M Lafayette) Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2023 18:58:11 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Tigers] Cooling Fan In-Reply-To: References: <6FDF8D09-C40B-4D76-AD81-8605A8F40EEC@ix.netcom.com> <07BDC314-5511-4EEE-AB50-EDB54A6DEDA0@yahoo.com> <8A31BF81-2A7E-40D5-ACD6-4E0722532C2B@verizon.net> Message-ID: <1489085292.2515519.1689793091690@mail.yahoo.com> Wow, I'm guessing even a modern car will have problems at 100+ In a message dated 7/19/2023 12:57:36 PM Eastern Standard Time, jbbrown1980 at gmail.com writes:? Thanks for all of the replies.? I have a mostly stock engine (with Edelbrock intake and 4 bbl.) and stock radiator.? I have a temperature gauge mounted on the intake and the engine seems to run a little over 200 at idle but I haven't had any problems while driving the car.? My problem right now is that I took the car out one afternoon when the temperature was over 100 degrees and when I pulled into the garage and shut the engine off it puked some water onto the floor.? The temp gauge was showing around 250 degrees at that point.???I already have the lower shroud on my radiator and I am making some horn opening covers today.? I will also look at blocking off the area below the radiator.? I have read all of the articles that people have referred to and I believe I have an airflow problem at low speeds.? So I was just looking for pusher fan recommendations at this point.? ??The best advice is to probably not drive in 100+ degree weather.?Thanks,Joe Brown On Wed, Jul 19, 2023 at 8:33?AM LARRY PAULICK via Tigers wrote: I made a custom lower fan shroud, as one does not exist for the stock tiger, fan shroud. I did smoke test with the car at idle and the air comes through the radiator down towards the ground and circles back through the radiator again. So essentially you're just recycling hot air from your own radiator.? It works.? On Jul 19, 2023, at 2:03 AM, Owain Lloyd wrote: I think michael hit the nail on the head.? first need to know is it overheating when stationary / moving slowly or at speed??a pusher fan will only help at very low speed or when stopped.? and spal is the go to brand.? ?still need the horn holes and gap between cross member and rad blocked.? cardboard and zip ties does the trick quickly and can be replaced with a more permanent?solution later if you want.? also need a fan shroud.?personally i've never needed the electric pusher fan because i have a small 13" flex fan on the water pump pulley.? that creates enough pull through the radiator at idle.?if its?overheating at more than 30/40mph then its another problem entirely and there are a variety?of other things to check.?in my case its fuel boiling in the carb under certain conditions?(slowing down after running fast in really high ambient temps above a particular altitude) rather than coolant temp which is the problem.? there are a bunch of things i could do there, most importantly a carb heat shield, but i've?only suffered from it once.?one thing i've found very useful for debugging cooling issues in the tiger over the years is having a glass gano filter in the rad top hose.? at least you can see how the coolant is circulating which helps with thermostat or water pump issues and if you're used to how it should look, even how blocked the radiator is.? On Wed, Jul 19, 2023 at 7:41?AM Jim B via Tigers wrote: I?ve been reading?about cooling issues with tigers for more that a decade (much less than some reading this) blocking horn holes, pusher fans, and shrouds etc etc. Entire studies have been done on?this issue. Just check STOA, CAT or any club site. All good reads! I think the first place to start is?knowing what the actual?engine team really is. We all know that the original temp guage can be off. The other thing is: as a dyed in the wool ford guy, 185 degrees is the optimal engine temp. But, Ford engines can get to 195-200 degrees easily and that is not?necessarily a bad thing. Yes, I put a pusher in mine only because I had one. I?m not really sure is does?anything. My?original guage can show 225-230 on ?a hot day (humidity plays a bitg role) but never has pucked out fluid. The design of the should is an?issue. It lets hot air from the engine compartment to get under the radiator. Many, many, ?fixes? that can be?done. However, on a hot low humidity day.. well good luck. JMO On Jul 18, 2023, at 8:40 PM, Allan Ballard wrote: The article includes several suggestions.?One of them is to seal the missing section of the stock fan shroud at the bottom.?A list member offered a piece he fabricated.?I obtained one and here are a couple of pictures. I hope to fit it later this year.?Even a few degrees of cooling will be worth the effort.?Allan BallardMk1a Tiger? Sent from my iPhone On Jul 18, 2023, at 10:57 PM, Jay Laifman wrote: Have you looked at this cooling suggestions? ?http://tigersunited.com/techtips/SteveLaifmanValance/pt-SteveLaifmanValance1.asp?It works great in Southern California heat. On Tue, Jul 18, 2023 at 3:42?PM Joe Brown wrote: My Tiger can't keep up with this 100 degree weather in Texas.? I've read through the article by Tiger Tom and Chuck King and I will make some of the suggested modifications.? They listed two different pusher electric fans in the article but both of them are no longer available.?So, has anybody recently installed a pusher fan?? If so, what part numbers??Thanks,Joe Brown_______________________________________________ tigers at autox.team.net Donate:?http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive:?http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers?http://autox.team.net/archive Unsubscribe:?http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/jay.laifman at gmail.com _______________________________________________ tigers at autox.team.net Donate:?http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive:?http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers?http://autox.team.net/archive Unsubscribe:?http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/aballard at ix.netcom.com _______________________________________________ tigers at autox.team.net Donate:?http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive:?http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers?http://autox.team.net/archive Unsubscribe:?http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/jbsyv at yahoo.com _______________________________________________ tigers at autox.team.net Donate:?http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive:?http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers?http://autox.team.net/archive Unsubscribe:?http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/owain.lloyd at gmail.com _______________________________________________ tigers at autox.team.net Donate:?http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive:?http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers?http://autox.team.net/archive Unsubscribe:?http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/lpaulick1 at verizon.net _______________________________________________ tigers at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/jbbrown1980 at gmail.com _______________________________________________ tigers at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/coolvt at aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lpaulick1 at verizon.net Wed Jul 19 13:06:17 2023 From: lpaulick1 at verizon.net (LARRY PAULICK) Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2023 15:06:17 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Cooling Fan In-Reply-To: References: <6FDF8D09-C40B-4D76-AD81-8605A8F40EEC@ix.netcom.com> <07BDC314-5511-4EEE-AB50-EDB54A6DEDA0@yahoo.com> <8A31BF81-2A7E-40D5-ACD6-4E0722532C2B@verizon.net> Message-ID: Joe, I did an article for Tigers United, that describes with photographs what I did for the full fans shroud. http://tigersunited.com/techtips/PaulickShroud/pt-PaulickShroud.asp BTW, Tigers United has a lot of great articles covering the variety of subjects. You might want to check it out. > On Jul 19, 2023, at 10:31 AM, Joe Brown wrote: > > Thanks for all of the replies. I have a mostly stock engine (with Edelbrock intake and 4 bbl.) and stock radiator. I have a temperature gauge mounted on the intake and the engine seems to run a little over 200 at idle but I haven't had any problems while driving the car. My problem right now is that I took the car out one afternoon when the temperature was over 100 degrees and when I pulled into the garage and shut the engine off it puked some water onto the floor. The temp gauge was showing around 250 degrees at that point. > > I already have the lower shroud on my radiator and I am making some horn opening covers today. I will also look at blocking off the area below the radiator. I have read all of the articles that people have referred to and I believe I have an airflow problem at low speeds. So I was just looking for pusher fan recommendations at this point. > > The best advice is to probably not drive in 100+ degree weather. > > Thanks, > Joe Brown > > On Wed, Jul 19, 2023 at 8:33?AM LARRY PAULICK via Tigers > wrote: >> I made a custom lower fan shroud, as one does not exist for the stock tiger, fan shroud. I did smoke test with the car at idle and the air comes through the radiator down towards the ground and circles back through the radiator again. So essentially you're just recycling hot air from your own radiator. It works. >> >>> On Jul 19, 2023, at 2:03 AM, Owain Lloyd > wrote: >>> >>> I think michael hit the nail on the head. first need to know is it overheating when stationary / moving slowly or at speed? >>> >>> a pusher fan will only help at very low speed or when stopped. and spal is the go to brand. still need the horn holes and gap between cross member and rad blocked. cardboard and zip ties does the trick quickly and can be replaced with a more permanent solution later if you want. also need a fan shroud. >>> >>> personally i've never needed the electric pusher fan because i have a small 13" flex fan on the water pump pulley. that creates enough pull through the radiator at idle. >>> >>> if its overheating at more than 30/40mph then its another problem entirely and there are a variety of other things to check. >>> >>> in my case its fuel boiling in the carb under certain conditions (slowing down after running fast in really high ambient temps above a particular altitude) rather than coolant temp which is the problem. there are a bunch of things i could do there, most importantly a carb heat shield, but i've only suffered from it once. >>> >>> one thing i've found very useful for debugging cooling issues in the tiger over the years is having a glass gano filter in the rad top hose. at least you can see how the coolant is circulating which helps with thermostat or water pump issues and if you're used to how it should look, even how blocked the radiator is. >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Jul 19, 2023 at 7:41?AM Jim B via Tigers > wrote: >>>> I?ve been reading about cooling issues with tigers for more that a decade (much less than some reading this) blocking horn holes, pusher fans, and shrouds etc etc. Entire studies have been done on this issue. Just check STOA, CAT or any club site. All good reads! I think the first place to start is knowing what the actual engine team really is. We all know that the original temp guage can be off. The other thing is: as a dyed in the wool ford guy, 185 degrees is the optimal engine temp. But, Ford engines can get to 195-200 degrees easily and that is not necessarily a bad thing. Yes, I put a pusher in mine only because I had one. I?m not really sure is does anything. My original guage can show 225-230 on a hot day (humidity plays a bitg role) but never has pucked out fluid. The design of the should is an issue. It lets hot air from the engine compartment to get under the radiator. Many, many, ?fixes? that can be done. However, on a hot low humidity day.. well good luck. JMO >>>> >>>>> On Jul 18, 2023, at 8:40 PM, Allan Ballard > wrote: >>>>> >>>>> The article includes several suggestions. >>>>> >>>>> One of them is to seal the missing section of the stock fan shroud at the bottom. >>>>> >>>>> A list member offered a piece he fabricated. >>>>> >>>>> I obtained one and here are a couple of pictures. I hope to fit it later this year. >>>>> >>>>> Even a few degrees of cooling will be worth the effort. >>>>> >>>>> Allan Ballard >>>>> Mk1a Tiger >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>> >>>>>> On Jul 18, 2023, at 10:57 PM, Jay Laifman > wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> ? >>>>>> Have you looked at this cooling suggestions? http://tigersunited.com/techtips/SteveLaifmanValance/pt-SteveLaifmanValance1.asp >>>>>> >>>>>> It works great in Southern California heat. >>>>>> >>>>>> On Tue, Jul 18, 2023 at 3:42?PM Joe Brown > wrote: >>>>>>> My Tiger can't keep up with this 100 degree weather in Texas. I've read through the article by Tiger Tom and Chuck King and I will make some of the suggested modifications. They listed two different pusher electric fans in the article but both of them are no longer available. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> So, has anybody recently installed a pusher fan? If so, what part numbers? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>> Joe Brown >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> tigers at autox.team.net >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >>>>>>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/jay.laifman at gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> >>>>>> tigers at autox.team.net >>>>>> >>>>>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >>>>>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive >>>>>> >>>>>> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/aballard at ix.netcom.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> >>>>> tigers at autox.team.net >>>>> >>>>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >>>>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive >>>>> >>>>> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/jbsyv at yahoo.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> >>>> tigers at autox.team.net >>>> >>>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >>>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive >>>> >>>> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/owain.lloyd at gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> >>> tigers at autox.team.net >>> >>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive >>> >>> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/lpaulick1 at verizon.net >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> tigers at autox.team.net >> >> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive >> >> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/jbbrown1980 at gmail.com >> >> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rollright at aol.com Thu Jul 20 07:46:53 2023 From: rollright at aol.com (JAMES ARMSTRONG) Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2023 09:46:53 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Lower fan shroud References: Message-ID: Just wanted to mentioned that there?s a fellow in Quebec that was manufacturing lower fan shrouds. I met him at Tigers East Alpines East United 2000 in Rockland Maine, and the shroud has worked very well. Fit on nicely, absolutely no complaints. Price was more than reasonable, A good guy. I don?t know if he?s still making them, but it?s worth following up. Sent from my iPhone From jmartiniii at yahoo.com Thu Jul 20 08:47:08 2023 From: jmartiniii at yahoo.com (Joel Martin) Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2023 14:47:08 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Tigers] Tigers Digest, Vol 16, Issue 143 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1735890384.1628892.1689864429073@mail.yahoo.com> Tiger Running hot ? Shotgun Approach after time of trying baby steps. After about a year of struggling with car running hot at idle with thehood down, Hot to me is 195 degrees and above. I took drastic steps.? I have been driving the car during the last yearonly on back roads with not much chance of traffic lights and traffic.? I live in rural NC outside of Pinehurst. ????? Bloody yahoo mail formatting ruined numbering copied from MS Word, so please ignore.? ? ? ?? 1. Purchased and installed Sunbeam Specialties (SS) gloss black radiator overflow tank, missing from car.?????? 2. Purchased and installed overflow tank straps from Alexander Washick?alw6464 at gmail.com which are powder coated, missing from car. - Purchased and installed undersize water pump pulley from Robert Straghan? scuffed, primed and painted semi gloss black - Purchased and installed horn hole block plates from Don Lutjen? scuffed, primed and painted semi gloss black. - Purchased and installed new taller custom aluminum cross flow side tank radiator from Griffin Radiator. - Purchased and installed new Flow Kooler water pump BRA-1680 painted Ford dark blue to match engine replacing SS water pump, pressed hub to line up. - Modified the mechanical fan spacer so that front of fan is 1? from radiator. - Mechanical fan remains Flex-a-Lite 14? nylon 6 blade fan. - Purchased and installed new SS lower radiator and overflow to radiator hoses. - New top radiator hose from local source, as SS hose would not fit taller radiator. - New fan belt. - Purchased and refurbished original Tiger fan shroud which would not fit as I did not want to cut a original shroud top mounting bracket to fit my taller radiator.? Striped, primed and painted used shroud semi gloss black ? sitting on shelf. - Installed 160 degree thermostat from 180.? Could not find 170 degree.? If anyone has a part number and supplier for a 170-degree thermostat, please forward. So at this point I do not have a fan shroud ? unlessmake up a custom.? Other changes couldmake is front air dam and block front cross member to bottom of radiator spacingbut for now I am going to see how things play out this summer. ?Ok after all the above I was still not satisfied withwatching the temperature gauge increase while at idle or in stop and gotraffic.? Goal was to keep thetemperature at ALL times between 180 and 190 degrees whether driving or atidle. ?The following changes have been made since the abovechanges 1-13 after trial period of 6 months or so. ?The Flow Kooler water pump started leaking so I purchased the SS water pump and installed it and drove for a month or so.? Install error on the Flow Kooler water pump gasket turned out to be the problem.? The SS water pump actually raised idle temps 2-3 degrees so I would later reinstall the Flow Kooler with a new gasket. - Installed a couple of 12? electric pusher fans I had in the garage and wired a manual off/on switch under the dash with a relay.? Not much help or change in idle temperature while at stoplights or stop\go traffic. - Built and installed a custom fan shroud.? Remember I have an oversize Griffin radiator.? This change resulted in idle temp. drop by maybe 2-3 degrees.? Goal not achieve at this point but getting better. - I then discussed issue with Flex-a-lite technical services hot line (multiple times) regarding their electric pusher fan line. - The rule of thumb they recommend:? Electric fans of either the pusher or puller type should be that the electric fan should cover 70% of the radiator surface.? Mine came out to 69.5% coverage. - Small block V-8 engines recommendation is? 3,000 CFM. - Flex - a- Lite had only 1 fan that met these specifications. | ? | FLX-105391 Electric Fan, Pusher, Flex-Wave, Single, 16 in. Diameter, 3,000 cfm, Black, 20 amps,? (Mfr. #: 239) | - Also purchased temp probe and relay from Flex ? a Lite which is adjustable so you can set when the fan comes on.? Off is 10 degrees from on temp and is NOT adjustable. | | FLX-121281 Fan Control, Compact, Adjustable, Thread-in Probe, Single Fan, Kit (Mfr. #: 33095) | ?????????? e. Also purchased temperature probe adapter and installed in the upper radiator hose. | ? | FLX-107078 Radiator Hose Adapter, Aluminum, Fits 1 1/2 in. Hose, Has Two 1/4 in. NPT Ports, Includes One Plug, Each (Mfr. #: 32082) | The idea was torun the stock temp gauge probe???? intothe adapter and keep my mechanical temperature gauge in place in the manifoldto verify stock gauge was pretty accurate.?The ? NPT port would not handle the stock probe and I could not find 1/4probe with the correct ohms for the stock gauge, so manual temp gauge is stillin place which I believe is accurate. ?????????????f.? Goal still not achieved - Flex - a - Lite then offered the following advice ? ?You typically only need one or the other. If you have a mechanical fan and just want extra cooling in stop and go traffic, I suggest you use a much smaller electric fan. But using both a mechanical and this bigger electric fan will probably cause some disruption.?? The two smaller electric fans I used did not work in my case, so advice about smaller electric fan in conjunction with mechanical water pump fan did not work in my particular car. ?Plan ?. Reinstalled the Flow Kooler water pump with new gasket. - Removed the mechanical fan from the water pump and the 1? spacer.? Finally success!? Temp stays between 176 and 190 at ALL times regardless of ambient temperature and traffic conditions. So, in my case, the mechanical fan in conjunction with the electric fan was causing air flow disruption. - ?The temp at speed above 35 mph, the car runs around 176 degrees with 160 degree thermostat in temps 90 degrees and less.? About 183 in temperatures above 90, so not a issue. I might try out the 180 degree thermostat at some point, 170 if I could find one might be optimum for my car.? The only down side for me is the electric fan is noisy when running and volts on volt gauge drops around ? - ?- volt when the fan comes on.. The battery volts dropping are due to fan drawing 20 amps. This has not been a issue with lights on or off. I have a alternator and not the generator so with generator cars, this might be an issue.? Now I cannot hear the electric fan at all inside the car but outside, it is noisy when running.? Headers, 2.25" exhaust pipes with Flow Master series 40 mufflers.? I wonder why I cannot hear fan running. ?So you see I have tried almost all recommendedsuggestions except lower shroud addition and air dam to direct airflow. ?Every car reacts differently to changesand you have to keep trying different approaches that might work for your carand temperature\humidity of the area you reside. ?What changes I have made to me that hadthe biggest result and what would I try again in what order to minimize cost,effort and work involved. Yahoo formatting again. Test temp gauge and sender to ensure reading properly. - Ensure radiator in good working order. - Change thermostat from 180 to 170 then 160. - Install horn block off plates, minimal cost and about 1 hour to install. - Fan shroud if you do not have one, 2-3 degrees improvement in my case, custom made.? Possible making of the lower portion of the shroud as well, which I have not done. - Undersize water pump pulley and at same time, try a different mechanical fan and ensure fan is 1? from radiator. - Flow Kooler water pump BRA-1680, 2-3 degrees improvement in my case - New Griffin radiator.? They sell a package for the Tiger with radiator, electric fan and shroud.? Remember my radiator is a custom oversize radiator install by previous owner and the stock Griffin radiator or package would not work in my case but I have installed a new custom Griffin radiator. - Remove mechanical fan and install electric pusher fan that covers 70% of your radiator surface and moves 3,000 cfm?s as recommended for small block V-8 motors. Items 8 and 9 could be in reverse order and step 9 will not necessary if you purchase the Griffin Tiger package, your call. ?So you see I have tried almost allrecommended suggestions except lower shroud addition and air dam to direct airflow and have finally met my goal of keeping the temperature between 180 to 190degrees in all driving conditions.? Ihope my trials and findings will help you moving forward.? Any questions, please ask. ?Regards Joel Martin ?On Wednesday, July 19, 2023 at 09:09:34 PM EDT, tigers-request at autox.team.net wrote: Send Tigers mailing list submissions to ??? tigers at autox.team.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit ??? http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to ??? tigers-request at autox.team.net You can reach the person managing the list at ??? tigers-owner at autox.team.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Tigers digest..." Today's Topics: ? 1. Re: Cooling Fan (LARRY PAULICK) Joe, I did an article for Tigers United, that describes with photographs what I did for the full fans shroud. | | TigersUnited.comtigersunited.com | | | BTW, Tigers United has a lot of great articles covering the variety of subjects. You might want to check it out.? On Jul 19, 2023, at 10:31 AM, Joe Brown wrote: Thanks for all of the replies.? I have a mostly stock engine (with Edelbrock intake and 4 bbl.) and stock radiator.? I have a temperature gauge mounted on the intake and the engine seems to run a little over 200 at idle but I haven't had any problems while driving the car.? My problem right now is that I took the car out one afternoon when the temperature was over 100 degrees and when I pulled into the garage and shut the engine off it puked some water onto the floor.? The temp gauge was showing around 250 degrees at that point.?? I already have the lower shroud on my radiator and I am making some horn opening covers today.? I will also look at blocking off the area below the radiator.? I have read all of the articles that people have referred to and I believe I have an airflow problem at low speeds.? So I was just looking for pusher fan recommendations at this point.? ? The best advice is to probably not drive in 100+ degree weather. Thanks,Joe Brown On Wed, Jul 19, 2023 at 8:33?AM LARRY PAULICK via Tigers wrote: I made a custom lower fan shroud, as one does not exist for the stock tiger, fan shroud. I did smoke test with the car at idle and the air comes through the radiator down towards the ground and circles back through the radiator again. So essentially you're just recycling hot air from your own radiator.? It works.? On Jul 19, 2023, at 2:03 AM, Owain Lloyd wrote: I think michael hit the nail on the head.? first need to know is it overheating when stationary / moving slowly or at speed? a pusher fan will only help at very low speed or when stopped.? and spal is the go to brand.? ?still need the horn holes and gap between cross member and rad blocked.? cardboard and zip ties does the trick quickly and can be replaced with a more permanent?solution later if you want.? also need a fan shroud. personally i've never needed the electric pusher fan because i have a small 13" flex fan on the water pump pulley.? that creates enough pull through the radiator at idle. if its?overheating at more than 30/40mph then its another problem entirely and there are a variety?of other things to check. in my case its fuel boiling in the carb under certain conditions?(slowing down after running fast in really high ambient temps above a particular altitude) rather than coolant temp which is the problem.? there are a bunch of things i could do there, most importantly a carb heat shield, but i've?only suffered from it once. one thing i've found very useful for debugging cooling issues in the tiger over the years is having a glass gano filter in the rad top hose.? at least you can see how the coolant is circulating which helps with thermostat or water pump issues and if you're used to how it should look, even how blocked the radiator is. On Wed, Jul 19, 2023 at 7:41?AM Jim B via Tigers wrote: I?ve been reading?about cooling issues with tigers for more that a decade (much less than some reading this) blocking horn holes, pusher fans, and shrouds etc etc. Entire studies have been done on?this issue. Just check STOA, CAT or any club site. All good reads! I think the first place to start is?knowing what the actual?engine team really is. We all know that the original temp guage can be off. The other thing is: as a dyed in the wool ford guy, 185 degrees is the optimal engine temp. But, Ford engines can get to 195-200 degrees easily and that is not?necessarily a bad thing. Yes, I put a pusher in mine only because I had one. I?m not really sure is does?anything. My?original guage can show 225-230 on ?a hot day (humidity plays a bitg role) but never has pucked out fluid. The design of the should is an?issue. It lets hot air from the engine compartment to get under the radiator. Many, many, ?fixes? that can be?done. However, on a hot low humidity day.. well good luck. JMO On Jul 18, 2023, at 8:40 PM, Allan Ballard wrote: The article includes several suggestions. One of them is to seal the missing section of the stock fan shroud at the bottom. A list member offered a piece he fabricated. I obtained one and here are a couple of pictures. I hope to fit it later this year. Even a few degrees of cooling will be worth the effort. Allan BallardMk1a Tiger Sent from my iPhone On Jul 18, 2023, at 10:57 PM, Jay Laifman wrote: ?Have you looked at this cooling suggestions? ?http://tigersunited.com/techtips/SteveLaifmanValance/pt-SteveLaifmanValance1.asp It works great in Southern California heat. On Tue, Jul 18, 2023 at 3:42?PM Joe Brown wrote: My Tiger can't keep up with this 100 degree weather in Texas.? I've read through the article by Tiger Tom and Chuck King and I will make some of the suggested modifications.? They listed two different pusher electric fans in the article but both of them are no longer available. So, has anybody recently installed a pusher fan?? If so, what part numbers? Thanks,Joe Brown_______________________________________________ tigers at autox.team.net Donate:?http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive:?http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers?http://autox.team.net/archive Unsubscribe:?http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/jay.laifman at gmail.com _______________________________________________ tigers at autox.team.net Donate:?http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive:?http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers?http://autox.team.net/archive Unsubscribe:?http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/aballard at ix.netcom.com _______________________________________________ tigers at autox.team.net Donate:?http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive:?http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers?http://autox.team.net/archive Unsubscribe:?http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/jbsyv at yahoo.com _______________________________________________ tigers at autox.team.net Donate:?http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive:?http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers?http://autox.team.net/archive Unsubscribe:?http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/owain.lloyd at gmail.com _______________________________________________ tigers at autox.team.net Donate:?http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive:?http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers?http://autox.team.net/archive Unsubscribe:?http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/lpaulick1 at verizon.net _______________________________________________ tigers at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/jbbrown1980 at gmail.com _______________________________________________ Tigers mailing list Tigers at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From atwittsend at verizon.net Thu Jul 20 10:24:26 2023 From: atwittsend at verizon.net (Tom Witt) Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2023 09:24:26 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Tigers Digest, Vol 16, Issue 143 In-Reply-To: <1735890384.1628892.1689864429073@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1735890384.1628892.1689864429073@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <9c1dbc06-8149-cc45-c8f9-0473d7f12b98@verizon.net> As I was reading your "journey" when you got to the Flex-a-Lite fan (initial item #6) I thought it might be suspect. Most people seem to have success with the Maverick fan, the Volvo fan or a particular Derale fan.? I can see where a pusher fan might impede airflow of a mechanical puller fan but not the other way where a puller fan impedes the flow of a pusher fan. That said given the "Flex" aspect of the Flex-a-Lite fan I wonder if it creates a "wall of wind" and was causing the overheating issue. Without smoke to see the flow of air movement I'm always baffled by things that blow over - and those that don't, leaves that deposit in one area of the yard - and not another. So, whatever the flex fan was doing it seems germane to the itself as others have not had the same issue with the recommended fans and a pusher fan. I won't ask if the fan was installed backwards (you seen way smarter than that) but does the possibility exist that the fan design was for counter rotation? With serpentine belts in cars these days the rotation of the water pump is often opposite of earlier engines of the same design. The good news is that you found a solution to your problem. Enjoy the ride. On 7/20/2023 7:47 AM, Joel Martin via Tigers wrote: > > Tiger Running hot ? Shotgun Approach after time of trying baby steps. > > After about a year of struggling with car running hot at idle with the > hood down, Hot to me is 195 degrees and above. I took drastic steps.I > have been driving the car during the last year only on back roads with > not much chance of traffic lights and traffic.I live in rural NC > outside of Pinehurst. > > Bloody yahoo mail formatting ruined numbering copied from MS Word, so > please ignore. > ? ? ?? 1. Purchased and installed Sunbeam Specialties (SS) gloss black > radiator overflow tank, missing from car. > ?????? 2. Purchased and installed overflow tank straps from Alexander > Washickalw6464 at gmail.com which are powder coated, missing from car. > > 1. Purchased and installed undersize water pump pulley from Robert > Straghan scuffed, primed and painted semi > gloss black > 2. Purchased and installed horn hole block plates from Don > Lutjen scuffed, primed and painted semi gloss > black. > 3. Purchased and installed new taller custom aluminum cross flow side > tank radiator from Griffin Radiator. > 4. Purchased and installed new Flow Kooler water pump BRA-1680 > painted Ford dark blue to match engine replacing SS water pump, > pressed hub to line up. > 5. Modified the mechanical fan spacer so that front of fan is 1? from > radiator. > 6. Mechanical fan remains Flex-a-Lite 14? nylon 6 blade fan. > 7. Purchased and installed new SS lower radiator and overflow to > radiator hoses. > 8. New top radiator hose from local source, as SS hose would not fit > taller radiator. > 9. New fan belt. > 10. Purchased and refurbished original Tiger fan shroud which would > not fit as I did not want to cut a original shroud top mounting > bracket to fit my taller radiator.Striped, primed and painted used > shroud semi gloss black ? sitting on shelf. > 11. Installed 160 degree thermostat from 180.Could not find 170 > degree.If anyone has a part number and supplier for a 170-degree > thermostat, please forward. > > So at this point I do not have a fan shroud ? unless make up a > custom.Other changes could make is front air dam and block front cross > member to bottom of radiator spacing but for now I am going to see how > things play out this summer. > > ?Ok after all the above I was still not satisfied with watching the > temperature gauge increase while at idle or in stop and go > traffic.Goal was to keep the temperature at ALL times between 180 and > 190 degrees whether driving or at idle. > > ?The following changes have been made since the above changes 1-13 > after trial period of 6 months or so. > > The Flow Kooler water pump started leaking so I purchased the SS water > pump and installed it and drove for a month or so.Install error on the > Flow Kooler water pump gasket turned out to be the problem.The SS > water pump actually raised idle temps 2-3 degrees so I would later > reinstall the Flow Kooler with a new gasket. > > 1. Installed a couple of 12? electric pusher fans I had in the garage > and wired a manual off/on switch under the dash with a relay.Not > much help or change in idle temperature while at stoplights or > stop\go traffic. > 2. Built and installed a custom fan shroud.Remember I have an > oversize Griffin radiator.This change resulted in idle temp. drop > by maybe 2-3 degrees.Goal not achieve at this point but getting > better. > 3. I then discussed issue with Flex-a-lite technical services hot > line (multiple times) regarding their electric pusher fan line. > 1. The rule of thumb they recommend:Electric fans of either the > pusher or puller type should be that the electric fan should > cover 70% of the radiator surface.Mine came out to 69.5% coverage. > 2. Small block V-8 engines recommendation is3,000 CFM. > 3. Flex - a- Lite had only 1 fan that met these specifications. > > > > *FLX-105391 * > Electric Fan, Pusher, Flex-Wave, Single, 16 in. Diameter, 3,000 cfm, > Black, 20 amps, > (Mfr. #: 239) > > 4. Also purchased temp probe and relay from Flex ? a Lite which > is adjustable so you can set when the fan comes on.Off is 10 > degrees from on temp and is NOT adjustable. > > > > *FLX-121281 * > Fan Control, Compact, Adjustable, Thread-in Probe, Single Fan, Kit > (Mfr. #: 33095) > > e. Also purchased temperature probe adapter and installed in the upper > radiator hose. > > > > *FLX-107078 * > Radiator Hose Adapter, Aluminum, Fits 1 1/2 in. Hose, Has Two 1/4 in. > NPT Ports, Includes One Plug, Each > (Mfr. #: 32082) > > The idea was to run the stock temp gauge probeinto the adapter and > keep my mechanical temperature gauge in place in the manifold to > verify stock gauge was pretty accurate.The ? NPT port would not handle > the stock probe and I could not find 1/4 probe with the correct ohms > for the stock gauge, so manual temp gauge is still in place which I > believe is accurate. > > ?????????????f.Goal still not achieved > > 5. Flex - a - Lite then offered the following advice ? ?You typically > only need one or the other. If you have a mechanical fan and just > want extra cooling in stop and go traffic, I suggest you use a > much smaller electric fan. But using both a mechanical and this > bigger electric fan will probably cause some disruption.?The two > smaller electric fans I used did not work in my case, so advice > about smaller electric fan in conjunction with mechanical water > pump fan did not work in my particular car. > > Plan ?. Reinstalled the Flow Kooler water pump with new gasket. > > 1. Removed the mechanical fan from the water pump and the 1? > spacer.Finally success!Temp stays between 176 and 190 at ALL > times regardless of ambient temperature and traffic > conditions. So, in my case, the mechanical fan in conjunction > with the electric fan was causing air flow disruption. > 2. The temp at speed above 35 mph, the car runs around 176 > degrees with 160 degree thermostat in temps 90 degrees and > less.? About 183 in temperatures above 90, so not a issue. I > might try out the 180 degree thermostat at some point, 170 if > I could find one might be optimum for my car.The only down > side for me is the electric fan is noisy when running and > volts on volt gauge drops around ? - ?- volt when the fan > comes on.. The battery volts dropping are due to fan drawing > 20 amps. This has not been a issue with lights on or off. I > have a alternator and not the generator so with generator > cars, this might be an issue.Now I cannot hear the electric > fan *at all* inside the car but outside, it is noisy when > running.Headers, 2.25" exhaust pipes with Flow Master series > 40 mufflers.I wonder why I cannot hear fan running. > > So you see I have tried almost all recommended suggestions except > lower shroud addition and air dam to direct airflow. > > ?Every car reacts differently to changes and you have to keep trying > different approaches that might work for your car and > temperature\humidity of the area you reside. > > ?What changes I have made to me that had the biggest result and what > would I try again in what order to minimize cost, effort and work > involved. > > Yahoo formatting again. > Test temp gauge and sender to ensure reading properly. > > 1. Ensure radiator in good working order. > 2. Change thermostat from 180 to 170 then 160. > 3. Install horn block off plates, minimal cost and about 1 hour to > install. > 4. Fan shroud if you do not have one, 2-3 degrees improvement in my > case, custom made.Possible making of the lower portion of the > shroud as well, which I have not done. > 5. Undersize water pump pulley and at same time, try a different > mechanical fan and ensure fan is 1? from radiator. > 6. Flow Kooler water pump BRA-1680, 2-3 degrees improvement in my case > 7. New Griffin radiator.They sell a package for the Tiger with > radiator, electric fan and shroud.Remember my radiator is a custom > oversize radiator install by previous owner and the stock Griffin > radiator or package would not work in my case but I have installed > a new custom Griffin radiator. > 8. Remove mechanical fan and install electric pusher fan that covers > 70% of your radiator surface *and *moves 3,000 cfm?s as > recommended for small block V-8 motors. Items 8 and 9 could be in > reverse order and step 9 will not necessary if you purchase the > Griffin Tiger package, your call. > > ?So you see I have tried almost all recommended suggestions except > lower shroud addition and air dam to direct air flow and have finally > met my goal of keeping the temperature between 180 to 190 degrees in > all driving conditions.I hope my trials and findings will help you > moving forward.? Any questions, please ask. > > ?Regards > > Joel Martin > > On Wednesday, July 19, 2023 at 09:09:34 PM EDT, > tigers-request at autox.team.net wrote: > > > Send Tigers mailing list submissions to > tigers at autox.team.net > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > tigers-request at autox.team.net > > You can reach the person managing the list at > tigers-owner at autox.team.net > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Tigers digest..." > Today's Topics: > > ? 1. Re: Cooling Fan (LARRY PAULICK) > Joe, I did an article for Tigers United, that describes with > photographs what I did for the full fans shroud. > > TigersUnited.com > > tigersunited.com > > > > > > BTW, Tigers United has a lot of great articles covering the variety of > subjects. You might want to check it out. > > > >> On Jul 19, 2023, at 10:31 AM, Joe Brown wrote: >> >> Thanks for all of the replies. I have a mostly stock engine (with >> Edelbrock intake and 4 bbl.) and stock radiator.? I have a >> temperature gauge mounted on the intake and the engine seems to run a >> little over 200 at idle but I haven't had any problems while driving >> the car.? My problem right now is that I took the car out one >> afternoon when the temperature was over 100 degrees and when I pulled >> into the garage and shut the engine off it puked some water onto the >> floor.? The temp gauge was showing around 250 degrees at that point. >> >> I already have the lower shroud on my radiator and I am making some >> horn opening covers today.? I will also look at blocking off the area >> below the radiator. I have read all of the articles that people have >> referred to and I believe I have an airflow problem at low speeds.? >> So I was just looking for pusher fan recommendations at this point. >> >> The best advice is to probably not drive in 100+ degree weather. >> >> Thanks, >> Joe Brown >> >> On Wed, Jul 19, 2023 at 8:33?AM LARRY PAULICK via Tigers >> wrote: >> >> I made a custom lower fan shroud, as one does not exist for the >> stock tiger, fan shroud. I did smoke test with the car at idle >> and the air comes through the radiator down towards the ground >> and circles back through the radiator again. So essentially >> you're just recycling hot air from your own radiator.? It works. >> >>> On Jul 19, 2023, at 2:03 AM, Owain Lloyd >>> wrote: >>> >>> I think michael hit the nail on the head.? first need to know is >>> it overheating when stationary / moving slowly or at speed? >>> >>> a pusher fan will only help at very low speed or when stopped.? >>> and spal is the go to brand.? ?still need the horn holes and gap >>> between cross member and rad blocked. cardboard and zip ties >>> does the trick quickly and can be replaced with a more >>> permanent?solution later if you want.? also need a fan shroud. >>> >>> personally i've never needed the electric pusher fan because i >>> have a small 13" flex fan on the water pump pulley.? that >>> creates enough pull through the radiator at idle. >>> >>> if its?overheating at more than 30/40mph then its another >>> problem entirely and there are a variety?of other things to check. >>> >>> in my case its fuel boiling in the carb under certain >>> conditions?(slowing down after running fast in really high >>> ambient temps above a particular altitude) rather than coolant >>> temp which is the problem.? there are a bunch of things i could >>> do there, most importantly a carb heat shield, but i've?only >>> suffered from it once. >>> >>> one thing i've found very useful for debugging cooling issues in >>> the tiger over the years is having a glass gano filter in the >>> rad top hose. at least you can see how the coolant is >>> circulating which helps with thermostat or water pump issues and >>> if you're used to how it should look, even how blocked the >>> radiator is. >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Jul 19, 2023 at 7:41?AM Jim B via Tigers >>> wrote: >>> >>> I?ve been reading?about cooling issues with tigers for more >>> that a decade (much less than some reading this) blocking >>> horn holes, pusher fans, and shrouds etc etc. Entire studies >>> have been done on?this issue. Just check STOA, CAT or any >>> club site. All good reads! I think the first place to start >>> is?knowing what the actual?engine team really is. We all >>> know that the original temp guage can be off. The other >>> thing is: as a dyed in the wool ford guy, 185 degrees is the >>> optimal engine temp. But, Ford engines can get to 195-200 >>> degrees easily and that is not?necessarily a bad thing. Yes, >>> I put a pusher in mine only because I had one. I?m not >>> really sure is does?anything. My?original guage can show >>> 225-230 on ?a hot day (humidity plays a bitg role) but never >>> has pucked out fluid. The design of the should is an?issue. >>> It lets hot air from the engine compartment to get under the >>> radiator. Many, many, ?fixes? that can be?done. However, on >>> a hot low humidity day.. well good luck. JMO >>> >>>> On Jul 18, 2023, at 8:40 PM, Allan Ballard >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> The article includes several suggestions. >>>> >>>> One of them is to seal the missing section of the stock fan >>>> shroud at the bottom. >>>> >>>> A list member offered a piece he fabricated. >>>> >>>> I obtained one and here are a couple of pictures. I hope to >>>> fit it later this year. >>>> >>>> Even a few degrees of cooling will be worth the effort. >>>> >>>> Allan Ballard >>>> Mk1a Tiger >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>>> On Jul 18, 2023, at 10:57 PM, Jay Laifman >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> ? >>>>> Have you looked at this cooling suggestions? >>>>> http://tigersunited.com/techtips/SteveLaifmanValance/pt-SteveLaifmanValance1.asp >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> It works great in Southern California heat. >>>>> >>>>> On Tue, Jul 18, 2023 at 3:42?PM Joe Brown >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> My Tiger can't keep up with this 100 degree weather in >>>>> Texas. I've read through the article by Tiger Tom and >>>>> Chuck King and I will make some of the suggested >>>>> modifications. They listed two different pusher >>>>> electric fans in the article but both of them are no >>>>> longer available. >>>>> >>>>> So, has anybody recently installed a pusher fan? If >>>>> so, what part numbers? >>>>> >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> Joe Brown >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> >>>>> tigers at autox.team.net >>>>> >>>>> Donate:http://www.team.net/donate.html >>>>> Archive:http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigershttp://autox.team.net/archive >>>>> >>>>> Unsubscribe:http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/jay.laifman at gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> >>>>> tigers at autox.team.net >>>>> >>>>> Donate:http://www.team.net/donate.html >>>>> Archive:http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigershttp://autox.team.net/archive >>>>> >>>>> Unsubscribe:http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/aballard at ix.netcom.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> >>>> tigers at autox.team.net >>>> >>>> Donate:http://www.team.net/donate.html >>>> Archive:http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigershttp://autox.team.net/archive >>>> >>>> Unsubscribe:http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/jbsyv at yahoo.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> >>> tigers at autox.team.net >>> >>> Donate:http://www.team.net/donate.html >>> Archive:http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigershttp://autox.team.net/archive >>> >>> Unsubscribe:http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/owain.lloyd at gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> >>> tigers at autox.team.net >>> >>> Donate:http://www.team.net/donate.html >>> Archive:http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigershttp://autox.team.net/archive >>> >>> Unsubscribe:http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/lpaulick1 at verizon.net >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> tigers at autox.team.net >> >> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers >> http://autox.team.net/archive >> >> Unsubscribe: >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/jbbrown1980 at gmail.com >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Tigers mailing list > Tigers at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers > http://autox.team.net/archive > > _______________________________________________ > > tigers at autox.team.net > > Donate:http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive:http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe:http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/atwittsend at verizon.net > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From coolvt at aol.com Thu Jul 20 12:12:50 2023 From: coolvt at aol.com (M Lafayette) Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2023 18:12:50 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Tigers] Tigers Digest, Vol 16, Issue 143 In-Reply-To: <9c1dbc06-8149-cc45-c8f9-0473d7f12b98@verizon.net> References: <1735890384.1628892.1689864429073@mail.yahoo.com> <9c1dbc06-8149-cc45-c8f9-0473d7f12b98@verizon.net> Message-ID: <1748035535.3021761.1689876770577@mail.yahoo.com> In speaking to a rep. from a fan company years ago, he mentioned that a "puller" elect. fan would cool either 2 or 3 times (can't remember the number) as well as a "pusher" elect. fan.? Makes sense since modern cars seems to use puller elctric's.? Has anyone tried just one good elect. puller on a Tiger? Mark In a message dated 7/20/2023 1:58:29 PM Eastern Daylight Time, tigers at autox.team.net writes:? As I was reading your "journey" when you got to the Flex-a-Lite fan (initial item #6) I thought it might be suspect. Most people seem to have success with the Maverick fan, the Volvo fan or a particular Derale fan.? I can see where a pusher fan might impede airflow of a mechanical puller fan but not the other way where a puller fan impedes the flow of a pusher fan. That said given the "Flex" aspect of the Flex-a-Lite fan I wonder if it creates a "wall of wind" and was causing the overheating issue. Without smoke to see the flow of air movement I'm always baffled by things that blow over - and those that don't, leaves that deposit in one area of the yard - and not another. So, whatever the flex fan was doing it seems germane to the itself as others have not had the same issue with the recommended fans and a pusher fan. I won't ask if the fan was installed backwards (you seen way smarter than that) but does the possibility exist that the fan design was for counter rotation? With serpentine belts in cars these days the rotation of the water pump is often opposite of earlier engines of the same design. The good news is that you found a solution to your problem. Enjoy the ride. On 7/20/2023 7:47 AM, Joel Martin via Tigers wrote: Tiger Running hot ? Shotgun Approach after time of trying baby steps. After about a year of struggling with car running hot at idle with the hood down, Hot to me is 195 degrees and above. I took drastic steps.? I have been driving the car during the last year only on back roads with not much chance of traffic lights and traffic.? I live in rural NC outside of Pinehurst. ????? Bloody yahoo mail formatting ruined numbering copied from MS Word, so please ignore.? ? ? ?? 1. Purchased and installed Sunbeam Specialties (SS) gloss black radiator overflow tank, missing from car.?????? 2. Purchased and installed overflow tank straps from Alexander Washick?alw6464 at gmail.com which are powder coated, missing from car. - Purchased and installed undersize water pump pulley from Robert Straghan? scuffed, primed and painted semi gloss black - Purchased and installed horn hole block plates from Don Lutjen? scuffed, primed and painted semi gloss black. - Purchased and installed new taller custom aluminum cross flow side tank radiator from Griffin Radiator. - Purchased and installed new Flow Kooler water pump BRA-1680 painted Ford dark blue to match engine replacing SS water pump, pressed hub to line up. - Modified the mechanical fan spacer so that front of fan is 1? from radiator. - Mechanical fan remains Flex-a-Lite 14? nylon 6 blade fan. - Purchased and installed new SS lower radiator and overflow to radiator hoses. - New top radiator hose from local source, as SS hose would not fit taller radiator. - New fan belt. - Purchased and refurbished original Tiger fan shroud which would not fit as I did not want to cut a original shroud top mounting bracket to fit my taller radiator.? Striped, primed and painted used shroud semi gloss black ? sitting on shelf. - Installed 160 degree thermostat from 180.? Could not find 170 degree.? If anyone has a part number and supplier for a 170-degree thermostat, please forward. So at this point I do not have a fan shroud ? unless make up a custom.? Other changes could make is front air dam and block front cross member to bottom of radiator spacing but for now I am going to see how things play out this summer. ?Ok after all the above I was still not satisfied with watching the temperature gauge increase while at idle or in stop and go traffic.? Goal was to keep the temperature at ALL times between 180 and 190 degrees whether driving or at idle. ?The following changes have been made since the above changes 1-13 after trial period of 6 months or so. ?The Flow Kooler water pump started leaking so I purchased the SS water pump and installed it and drove for a month or so.? Install error on the Flow Kooler water pump gasket turned out to be the problem.? The SS water pump actually raised idle temps 2-3 degrees so I would later reinstall the Flow Kooler with a new gasket. - Installed a couple of 12? electric pusher fans I had in the garage and wired a manual off/on switch under the dash with a relay.? Not much help or change in idle temperature while at stoplights or stop\go traffic. - Built and installed a custom fan shroud.? Remember I have an oversize Griffin radiator.? This change resulted in idle temp. drop by maybe 2-3 degrees.? Goal not achieve at this point but getting better. - I then discussed issue with Flex-a-lite technical services hot line (multiple times) regarding their electric pusher fan line. - The rule of thumb they recommend:? Electric fans of either the pusher or puller type should be that the electric fan should cover 70% of the radiator surface.? Mine came out to 69.5% coverage. - Small block V-8 engines recommendation is? 3,000 CFM. - Flex - a- Lite had only 1 fan that met these specifications. | ? | FLX-105391 Electric Fan, Pusher, Flex-Wave, Single, 16 in. Diameter, 3,000 cfm, Black, 20 amps,? (Mfr. #: 239) | - Also purchased temp probe and relay from Flex ? a Lite which is adjustable so you can set when the fan comes on.? Off is 10 degrees from on temp and is NOT adjustable. | | FLX-121281 Fan Control, Compact, Adjustable, Thread-in Probe, Single Fan, Kit (Mfr. #: 33095) | ?????????? e. Also purchased temperature probe adapter and installed in the upper radiator hose. | ? | FLX-107078 Radiator Hose Adapter, Aluminum, Fits 1 1/2 in. Hose, Has Two 1/4 in. NPT Ports, Includes One Plug, Each (Mfr. #: 32082) | The idea was to run the stock temp gauge probe???? into the adapter and keep my mechanical temperature gauge in place in the manifold to verify stock gauge was pretty accurate.? The ? NPT port would not handle the stock probe and I could not find 1/4 probe with the correct ohms for the stock gauge, so manual temp gauge is still in place which I believe is accurate. ?????????????f.? Goal still not achieved - Flex - a - Lite then offered the following advice ? ?You typically only need one or the other. If you have a mechanical fan and just want extra cooling in stop and go traffic, I suggest you use a much smaller electric fan. But using both a mechanical and this bigger electric fan will probably cause some disruption.?? The two smaller electric fans I used did not work in my case, so advice about smaller electric fan in conjunction with mechanical water pump fan did not work in my particular car. ?Plan ?. Reinstalled the Flow Kooler water pump with new gasket. - Removed the mechanical fan from the water pump and the 1? spacer.? Finally success!? Temp stays between 176 and 190 at ALL times regardless of ambient temperature and traffic conditions. So, in my case, the mechanical fan in conjunction with the electric fan was causing air flow disruption. - ?The temp at speed above 35 mph, the car runs around 176 degrees with 160 degree thermostat in temps 90 degrees and less.? About 183 in temperatures above 90, so not a issue. I might try out the 180 degree thermostat at some point, 170 if I could find one might be optimum for my car.? The only down side for me is the electric fan is noisy when running and volts on volt gauge drops around ? - ?- volt when the fan comes on.. The battery volts dropping are due to fan drawing 20 amps. This has not been a issue with lights on or off. I have a alternator and not the generator so with generator cars, this might be an issue.? Now I cannot hear the electric fan at all inside the car but outside, it is noisy when running.? Headers, 2.25" exhaust pipes with Flow Master series 40 mufflers.? I wonder why I cannot hear fan running. ?So you see I have tried almost all recommended suggestions except lower shroud addition and air dam to direct airflow. ?Every car reacts differently to changes and you have to keep trying different approaches that might work for your car and temperature\humidity of the area you reside. ?What changes I have made to me that had the biggest result and what would I try again in what order to minimize cost, effort and work involved. Yahoo formatting again. Test temp gauge and sender to ensure reading properly. - Ensure radiator in good working order. - Change thermostat from 180 to 170 then 160. - Install horn block off plates, minimal cost and about 1 hour to install. - Fan shroud if you do not have one, 2-3 degrees improvement in my case, custom made.? Possible making of the lower portion of the shroud as well, which I have not done. - Undersize water pump pulley and at same time, try a different mechanical fan and ensure fan is 1? from radiator. - Flow Kooler water pump BRA-1680, 2-3 degrees improvement in my case - New Griffin radiator.? They sell a package for the Tiger with radiator, electric fan and shroud.? Remember my radiator is a custom oversize radiator install by previous owner and the stock Griffin radiator or package would not work in my case but I have installed a new custom Griffin radiator. - Remove mechanical fan and install electric pusher fan that covers 70% of your radiator surface and moves 3,000 cfm?s as recommended for small block V-8 motors. Items 8 and 9 could be in reverse order and step 9 will not necessary if you purchase the Griffin Tiger package, your call. ?So you see I have tried almost all recommended suggestions except lower shroud addition and air dam to direct air flow and have finally met my goal of keeping the temperature between 180 to 190 degrees in all driving conditions.? I hope my trials and findings will help you moving forward.? Any questions, please ask. ?Regards Joel Martin ?On Wednesday, July 19, 2023 at 09:09:34 PM EDT, tigers-request at autox.team.net wrote:??Send Tigers mailing list submissions to??? tigers at autox.team.net?To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit??? http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigersor, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to??? tigers-request at autox.team.net?You can reach the person managing the list at??? tigers-owner at autox.team.net?When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specificthan "Re: Contents of Tigers digest..."Today's Topics: ? 1. Re: Cooling Fan (LARRY PAULICK) Joe, I did an article for Tigers United, that describes with photographs what I did for the full fans shroud.? | | TigersUnited.comtigersunited.com | | | BTW, Tigers United has a lot of great articles covering the variety of subjects. You might want to check it out.??? On Jul 19, 2023, at 10:31 AM, Joe Brown wrote: Thanks for all of the replies.? I have a mostly stock engine (with Edelbrock intake and 4 bbl.) and stock radiator.? I have a temperature gauge mounted on the intake and the engine seems to run a little over 200 at idle but I haven't had any problems while driving the car.? My problem right now is that I took the car out one afternoon when the temperature was over 100 degrees and when I pulled into the garage and shut the engine off it puked some water onto the floor.? The temp gauge was showing around 250 degrees at that point.???I already have the lower shroud on my radiator and I am making some horn opening covers today.? I will also look at blocking off the area below the radiator.? I have read all of the articles that people have referred to and I believe I have an airflow problem at low speeds.? So I was just looking for pusher fan recommendations at this point.? ??The best advice is to probably not drive in 100+ degree weather.?Thanks,Joe Brown On Wed, Jul 19, 2023 at 8:33?AM LARRY PAULICK via Tigers wrote: I made a custom lower fan shroud, as one does not exist for the stock tiger, fan shroud. I did smoke test with the car at idle and the air comes through the radiator down towards the ground and circles back through the radiator again. So essentially you're just recycling hot air from your own radiator.? It works.? On Jul 19, 2023, at 2:03 AM, Owain Lloyd wrote: I think michael hit the nail on the head.? first need to know is it overheating when stationary / moving slowly or at speed??a pusher fan will only help at very low speed or when stopped.? and spal is the go to brand.? ?still need the horn holes and gap between cross member and rad blocked.? cardboard and zip ties does the trick quickly and can be replaced with a more permanent?solution later if you want.? also need a fan shroud.?personally i've never needed the electric pusher fan because i have a small 13" flex fan on the water pump pulley.? that creates enough pull through the radiator at idle.?if its?overheating at more than 30/40mph then its another problem entirely and there are a variety?of other things to check.?in my case its fuel boiling in the carb under certain conditions?(slowing down after running fast in really high ambient temps above a particular altitude) rather than coolant temp which is the problem.? there are a bunch of things i could do there, most importantly a carb heat shield, but i've?only suffered from it once.?one thing i've found very useful for debugging cooling issues in the tiger over the years is having a glass gano filter in the rad top hose.? at least you can see how the coolant is circulating which helps with thermostat or water pump issues and if you're used to how it should look, even how blocked the radiator is.? On Wed, Jul 19, 2023 at 7:41?AM Jim B via Tigers wrote: I?ve been reading?about cooling issues with tigers for more that a decade (much less than some reading this) blocking horn holes, pusher fans, and shrouds etc etc. Entire studies have been done on?this issue. Just check STOA, CAT or any club site. All good reads! I think the first place to start is?knowing what the actual?engine team really is. We all know that the original temp guage can be off. The other thing is: as a dyed in the wool ford guy, 185 degrees is the optimal engine temp. But, Ford engines can get to 195-200 degrees easily and that is not?necessarily a bad thing. Yes, I put a pusher in mine only because I had one. I?m not really sure is does?anything. My?original guage can show 225-230 on ?a hot day (humidity plays a bitg role) but never has pucked out fluid. The design of the should is an?issue. It lets hot air from the engine compartment to get under the radiator. Many, many, ?fixes? that can be?done. However, on a hot low humidity day.. well good luck. JMO On Jul 18, 2023, at 8:40 PM, Allan Ballard wrote: The article includes several suggestions.?One of them is to seal the missing section of the stock fan shroud at the bottom.?A list member offered a piece he fabricated.?I obtained one and here are a couple of pictures. I hope to fit it later this year.?Even a few degrees of cooling will be worth the effort.?Allan BallardMk1a Tiger? Sent from my iPhone On Jul 18, 2023, at 10:57 PM, Jay Laifman wrote: Have you looked at this cooling suggestions? ?http://tigersunited.com/techtips/SteveLaifmanValance/pt-SteveLaifmanValance1.asp?It works great in Southern California heat. On Tue, Jul 18, 2023 at 3:42?PM Joe Brown wrote: My Tiger can't keep up with this 100 degree weather in Texas.? I've read through the article by Tiger Tom and Chuck King and I will make some of the suggested modifications.? They listed two different pusher electric fans in the article but both of them are no longer available.?So, has anybody recently installed a pusher fan?? If so, what part numbers??Thanks,Joe Brown_______________________________________________ tigers at autox.team.net Donate:?http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive:?http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers?http://autox.team.net/archive Unsubscribe:?http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/jay.laifman at gmail.com _______________________________________________ tigers at autox.team.net Donate:?http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive:?http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers?http://autox.team.net/archive Unsubscribe:?http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/aballard at ix.netcom.com _______________________________________________ tigers at autox.team.net Donate:?http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive:?http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers?http://autox.team.net/archive Unsubscribe:?http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/jbsyv at yahoo.com _______________________________________________ tigers at autox.team.net Donate:?http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive:?http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers?http://autox.team.net/archive Unsubscribe:?http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/owain.lloyd at gmail.com _______________________________________________ tigers at autox.team.net Donate:?http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive:?http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers?http://autox.team.net/archive Unsubscribe:?http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/lpaulick1 at verizon.net _______________________________________________ tigers at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/jbbrown1980 at gmail.com _______________________________________________ Tigers mailing list Tigers at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive _______________________________________________ tigers at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/atwittsend at verizon.net _______________________________________________ tigers at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/coolvt at aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From owain.lloyd at gmail.com Thu Jul 20 12:21:03 2023 From: owain.lloyd at gmail.com (Owain Lloyd) Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2023 20:21:03 +0200 Subject: [Tigers] Tigers Digest, Vol 16, Issue 143 In-Reply-To: <9c1dbc06-8149-cc45-c8f9-0473d7f12b98@verizon.net> References: <1735890384.1628892.1689864429073@mail.yahoo.com> <9c1dbc06-8149-cc45-c8f9-0473d7f12b98@verizon.net> Message-ID: Never had a problem with a flex fan. Much more efficient at high rpm. On Thu, 20 Jul 2023 at 19:55, Tom Witt via Tigers wrote: > As I was reading your "journey" when you got to the Flex-a-Lite fan > (initial item #6) I thought it might be suspect. Most people seem to have > success with the Maverick fan, the Volvo fan or a particular Derale fan. I > can see where a pusher fan might impede airflow of a mechanical puller fan > but not the other way where a puller fan impedes the flow of a pusher fan. > That said given the "Flex" aspect of the Flex-a-Lite fan I wonder if it > creates a "wall of wind" and was causing the overheating issue. Without > smoke to see the flow of air movement I'm always baffled by things that > blow over - and those that don't, leaves that deposit in one area of the > yard - and not another. So, whatever the flex fan was doing it seems > germane to the itself as others have not had the same issue with the > recommended fans and a pusher fan. I won't ask if the fan was installed > backwards (you seen way smarter than that) but does the possibility exist > that the fan design was for counter rotation? With serpentine belts in cars > these days the rotation of the water pump is often opposite of earlier > engines of the same design. The good news is that you found a solution to > your problem. Enjoy the ride. > On 7/20/2023 7:47 AM, Joel Martin via Tigers wrote: > > Tiger Running hot ? Shotgun Approach after time of trying baby steps. > > After about a year of struggling with car running hot at idle with the > hood down, Hot to me is 195 degrees and above. I took drastic steps. I > have been driving the car during the last year only on back roads with not > much chance of traffic lights and traffic. I live in rural NC outside of > Pinehurst. > Bloody yahoo mail formatting ruined numbering copied from MS Word, > so please ignore. > 1. Purchased and installed Sunbeam Specialties (SS) gloss black > radiator overflow tank, missing from car. > 2. Purchased and installed overflow tank straps from Alexander > Washick alw6464 at gmail.com which are powder coated, missing from car. > > 1. Purchased and installed undersize water pump pulley from Robert > Straghan scuffed, primed > and painted semi gloss black > 2. Purchased and installed horn hole block plates from Don Lutjen > scuffed, primed and > painted semi gloss black. > 3. Purchased and installed new taller custom aluminum cross flow side > tank radiator from Griffin Radiator. > 4. Purchased and installed new Flow Kooler water pump BRA-1680 painted > Ford dark blue to match engine replacing SS water pump, pressed hub to line > up. > 5. Modified the mechanical fan spacer so that front of fan is 1? from > radiator. > 6. Mechanical fan remains Flex-a-Lite 14? nylon 6 blade fan. > 7. Purchased and installed new SS lower radiator and overflow to > radiator hoses. > 8. New top radiator hose from local source, as SS hose would not fit > taller radiator. > 9. New fan belt. > 10. Purchased and refurbished original Tiger fan shroud which would > not fit as I did not want to cut a original shroud top mounting bracket to > fit my taller radiator. Striped, primed and painted used shroud semi > gloss black ? sitting on shelf. > 11. Installed 160 degree thermostat from 180. Could not find 170 > degree. If anyone has a part number and supplier for a 170-degree > thermostat, please forward. > > So at this point I do not have a fan shroud ? unless make up a custom. Other > changes could make is front air dam and block front cross member to bottom > of radiator spacing but for now I am going to see how things play out this > summer. > > Ok after all the above I was still not satisfied with watching the > temperature gauge increase while at idle or in stop and go traffic. Goal > was to keep the temperature at ALL times between 180 and 190 degrees > whether driving or at idle. > > The following changes have been made since the above changes 1-13 after > trial period of 6 months or so. > > The Flow Kooler water pump started leaking so I purchased the SS water > pump and installed it and drove for a month or so. Install error on the > Flow Kooler water pump gasket turned out to be the problem. The SS water > pump actually raised idle temps 2-3 degrees so I would later reinstall the > Flow Kooler with a new gasket. > > 1. Installed a couple of 12? electric pusher fans I had in the garage > and wired a manual off/on switch under the dash with a relay. Not > much help or change in idle temperature while at stoplights or stop\go > traffic. > 2. Built and installed a custom fan shroud. Remember I have an > oversize Griffin radiator. This change resulted in idle temp. drop by > maybe 2-3 degrees. Goal not achieve at this point but getting better. > 3. I then discussed issue with Flex-a-lite technical services hot line > (multiple times) regarding their electric pusher fan line. > 1. The rule of thumb they recommend: Electric fans of either the > pusher or puller type should be that the electric fan should cover 70% of > the radiator surface. Mine came out to 69.5% coverage. > 2. Small block V-8 engines recommendation is 3,000 CFM. > 3. Flex - a- Lite had only 1 fan that met these specifications. > > > > *FLX-105391 * > Electric Fan, Pusher, Flex-Wave, Single, 16 in. Diameter, 3,000 cfm, > Black, 20 amps, > (Mfr. #: 239) > > 1. Also purchased temp probe and relay from Flex ? a Lite which is > adjustable so you can set when the fan comes on. Off is 10 degrees > from on temp and is NOT adjustable. > > *FLX-121281 * > Fan Control, Compact, Adjustable, Thread-in Probe, Single Fan, Kit > (Mfr. #: 33095) > e. Also purchased temperature probe adapter and installed in > the upper radiator hose. > > > > *FLX-107078 * > Radiator Hose Adapter, Aluminum, Fits 1 1/2 in. Hose, Has Two 1/4 in. NPT > Ports, Includes One Plug, Each > (Mfr. #: 32082) > > The idea was to run the stock temp gauge probe into the adapter and > keep my mechanical temperature gauge in place in the manifold to verify > stock gauge was pretty accurate. The ? NPT port would not handle the > stock probe and I could not find 1/4 probe with the correct ohms for the > stock gauge, so manual temp gauge is still in place which I believe is > accurate. > > f. Goal still not achieved > > 1. Flex - a - Lite then offered the following advice ? ?You typically > only need one or the other. If you have a mechanical fan and just want > extra cooling in stop and go traffic, I suggest you use a much smaller > electric fan. But using both a mechanical and this bigger electric fan will > probably cause some disruption.? The two smaller electric fans I used > did not work in my case, so advice about smaller electric fan in > conjunction with mechanical water pump fan did not work in my particular > car. > > Plan ?. Reinstalled the Flow Kooler water pump with new gasket. > > 1. Removed the mechanical fan from the water pump and the 1? spacer. Finally > success! Temp stays between 176 and 190 at ALL times regardless of > ambient temperature and traffic conditions. So, in my case, the mechanical > fan in conjunction with the electric fan was causing air flow disruption. > 2. The temp at speed above 35 mph, the car runs around 176 degrees > with 160 degree thermostat in temps 90 degrees and less. About 183 > in temperatures above 90, so not a issue. I might try out the 180 > degree thermostat at some point, 170 if I could find one might be optimum > for my car. The only down side for me is the electric fan is noisy > when running and volts on volt gauge drops around ? - ?- volt when the fan > comes on.. The battery volts dropping are due to fan drawing 20 amps. This > has not been a issue with lights on or off. I have a alternator and not the > generator so with generator cars, this might be an issue. Now I > cannot hear the electric fan *at all* inside the car but outside, > it is noisy when running. Headers, 2.25" exhaust pipes with Flow > Master series 40 mufflers. I wonder why I cannot hear fan running. > > So you see I have tried almost all recommended suggestions except lower > shroud addition and air dam to direct airflow. > > Every car reacts differently to changes and you have to keep trying > different approaches that might work for your car and temperature\humidity > of the area you reside. > > What changes I have made to me that had the biggest result and what would > I try again in what order to minimize cost, effort and work involved. > Yahoo formatting again. > Test temp gauge and sender to ensure reading properly. > > 1. Ensure radiator in good working order. > 2. Change thermostat from 180 to 170 then 160. > 3. Install horn block off plates, minimal cost and about 1 hour to > install. > 4. Fan shroud if you do not have one, 2-3 degrees improvement in my > case, custom made. Possible making of the lower portion of the shroud > as well, which I have not done. > 5. Undersize water pump pulley and at same time, try a different > mechanical fan and ensure fan is 1? from radiator. > 6. Flow Kooler water pump BRA-1680, 2-3 degrees improvement in my case > 7. New Griffin radiator. They sell a package for the Tiger with > radiator, electric fan and shroud. Remember my radiator is a custom > oversize radiator install by previous owner and the stock Griffin radiator > or package would not work in my case but I have installed a new custom > Griffin radiator. > 8. Remove mechanical fan and install electric pusher fan that covers > 70% of your radiator surface *and *moves 3,000 cfm?s as recommended > for small block V-8 motors. Items 8 and 9 could be in reverse order and > step 9 will not necessary if you purchase the Griffin Tiger package, your > call. > > So you see I have tried almost all recommended suggestions except lower > shroud addition and air dam to direct air flow and have finally met my goal > of keeping the temperature between 180 to 190 degrees in all driving > conditions. I hope my trials and findings will help you moving forward. > Any questions, please ask. > > Regards > > Joel Martin > > On Wednesday, July 19, 2023 at 09:09:34 PM EDT, > tigers-request at autox.team.net > wrote: > > > Send Tigers mailing list submissions to > tigers at autox.team.net > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > tigers-request at autox.team.net > > You can reach the person managing the list at > tigers-owner at autox.team.net > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Tigers digest..." > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Cooling Fan (LARRY PAULICK) > Joe, I did an article for Tigers United, that describes with photographs > what I did for the full fans shroud. > > TigersUnited.com > > tigersunited.com > > > > > BTW, Tigers United has a lot of great articles covering the variety of > subjects. You might want to check it out. > > > > On Jul 19, 2023, at 10:31 AM, Joe Brown > wrote: > > Thanks for all of the replies. I have a mostly stock engine (with > Edelbrock intake and 4 bbl.) and stock radiator. I have a temperature > gauge mounted on the intake and the engine seems to run a little over 200 > at idle but I haven't had any problems while driving the car. My problem > right now is that I took the car out one afternoon when the temperature was > over 100 degrees and when I pulled into the garage and shut the engine off > it puked some water onto the floor. The temp gauge was showing around 250 > degrees at that point. > > I already have the lower shroud on my radiator and I am making some horn > opening covers today. I will also look at blocking off the area below the > radiator. I have read all of the articles that people have referred to and > I believe I have an airflow problem at low speeds. So I was just looking > for pusher fan recommendations at this point. > > The best advice is to probably not drive in 100+ degree weather. > > Thanks, > Joe Brown > > On Wed, Jul 19, 2023 at 8:33?AM LARRY PAULICK via Tigers < > tigers at autox.team.net> wrote: > > I made a custom lower fan shroud, as one does not exist for the stock > tiger, fan shroud. I did smoke test with the car at idle and the air comes > through the radiator down towards the ground and circles back through the > radiator again. So essentially you're just recycling hot air from your own > radiator. It works. > > On Jul 19, 2023, at 2:03 AM, Owain Lloyd wrote: > > I think michael hit the nail on the head. first need to know is it > overheating when stationary / moving slowly or at speed? > > a pusher fan will only help at very low speed or when stopped. and spal > is the go to brand. still need the horn holes and gap between cross > member and rad blocked. cardboard and zip ties does the trick quickly and > can be replaced with a more permanent solution later if you want. also > need a fan shroud. > > personally i've never needed the electric pusher fan because i have a > small 13" flex fan on the water pump pulley. that creates enough pull > through the radiator at idle. > > if its overheating at more than 30/40mph then its another problem entirely > and there are a variety of other things to check. > > in my case its fuel boiling in the carb under certain conditions (slowing > down after running fast in really high ambient temps above a particular > altitude) rather than coolant temp which is the problem. there are a bunch > of things i could do there, most importantly a carb heat shield, but > i've only suffered from it once. > > one thing i've found very useful for debugging cooling issues in the tiger > over the years is having a glass gano filter in the rad top hose. at least > you can see how the coolant is circulating which helps with thermostat or > water pump issues and if you're used to how it should look, even how > blocked the radiator is. > > > On Wed, Jul 19, 2023 at 7:41?AM Jim B via Tigers > wrote: > > I?ve been reading about cooling issues with tigers for more that a decade > (much less than some reading this) blocking horn holes, pusher fans, and > shrouds etc etc. Entire studies have been done on this issue. Just check > STOA, CAT or any club site. All good reads! I think the first place to > start is knowing what the actual engine team really is. We all know that > the original temp guage can be off. The other thing is: as a dyed in the > wool ford guy, 185 degrees is the optimal engine temp. But, Ford engines > can get to 195-200 degrees easily and that is not necessarily a bad thing. > Yes, I put a pusher in mine only because I had one. I?m not really sure is > does anything. My original guage can show 225-230 on a hot day (humidity > plays a bitg role) but never has pucked out fluid. The design of the should > is an issue. It lets hot air from the engine compartment to get under the > radiator. Many, many, ?fixes? that can be done. However, on a hot low > humidity day.. well good luck. JMO > > On Jul 18, 2023, at 8:40 PM, Allan Ballard wrote: > > The article includes several suggestions. > > One of them is to seal the missing section of the stock fan shroud at the > bottom. > > A list member offered a piece he fabricated. > > I obtained one and here are a couple of pictures. I hope to fit it later > this year. > > Even a few degrees of cooling will be worth the effort. > > Allan Ballard > Mk1a Tiger > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Jul 18, 2023, at 10:57 PM, Jay Laifman wrote: > > ? > Have you looked at this cooling suggestions? > http://tigersunited.com/techtips/SteveLaifmanValance/pt-SteveLaifmanValance1.asp > > It works great in Southern California heat. > > On Tue, Jul 18, 2023 at 3:42?PM Joe Brown wrote: > > My Tiger can't keep up with this 100 degree weather in Texas. I've read > through the article by Tiger Tom and Chuck King and I will make some of the > suggested modifications. They listed two different pusher electric fans in > the article but both of them are no longer available. > > So, has anybody recently installed a pusher fan? If so, what part numbers? > > Thanks, > Joe Brown > _______________________________________________ > > tigers at autox.team.net > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers > http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/jay.laifman at gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > > tigers at autox.team.net > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers > http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/aballard at ix.netcom.com > > > _______________________________________________ > > tigers at autox.team.net > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers > http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/jbsyv at yahoo.com > > > _______________________________________________ > > tigers at autox.team.net > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers > http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/owain.lloyd at gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > > tigers at autox.team.net > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers > http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/lpaulick1 at verizon.net > > > _______________________________________________ > > tigers at autox.team.net > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers > http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/jbbrown1980 at gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > Tigers mailing list > Tigers at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers > http://autox.team.net/archive > > _______________________________________________ > tigers at autox.team.net > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive > > > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/atwittsend at verizon.net > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cars at wt-inc.com Thu Jul 20 15:36:52 2023 From: cars at wt-inc.com (Cars) Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2023 21:36:52 +0000 Subject: [Tigers] Tigers Digest, Vol 16, Issue 143 In-Reply-To: <1748035535.3021761.1689876770577@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1735890384.1628892.1689864429073@mail.yahoo.com> <9c1dbc06-8149-cc45-c8f9-0473d7f12b98@verizon.net> <1748035535.3021761.1689876770577@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: With a proper full shroud it would work well. Probably be enough with Horn block offs. I am running a 347 stroker, 565 ish HP and full air conditioning and never get over 185-195 degrees with A/C in 100 degree heat. Can do it all day. Lynn From: Tigers On Behalf Of M Lafayette via Tigers Sent: Thursday, July 20, 2023 12:13 PM To: atwittsend at verizon.net; tigers at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tigers Digest, Vol 16, Issue 143 In speaking to a rep. from a fan company years ago, he mentioned that a "puller" elect. fan would cool either 2 or 3 times (can't remember the number) as well as a "pusher" elect. fan. Makes sense since modern cars seems to use puller elctric's. Has anyone tried just one good elect. puller on a Tiger? Mark In a message dated 7/20/2023 1:58:29 PM Eastern Daylight Time, tigers at autox.team.net writes: As I was reading your "journey" when you got to the Flex-a-Lite fan (initial item #6) I thought it might be suspect. Most people seem to have success with the Maverick fan, the Volvo fan or a particular Derale fan. I can see where a pusher fan might impede airflow of a mechanical puller fan but not the other way where a puller fan impedes the flow of a pusher fan. That said given the "Flex" aspect of the Flex-a-Lite fan I wonder if it creates a "wall of wind" and was causing the overheating issue. Without smoke to see the flow of air movement I'm always baffled by things that blow over - and those that don't, leaves that deposit in one area of the yard - and not another. So, whatever the flex fan was doing it seems germane to the itself as others have not had the same issue with the recommended fans and a pusher fan. I won't ask if the fan was installed backwards (you seen way smarter than that) but does the possibility exist that the fan design was for counter rotation? With serpentine belts in cars these days the rotation of the water pump is often opposite of earlier engines of the same design. The good news is that you found a solution to your problem. Enjoy the ride. On 7/20/2023 7:47 AM, Joel Martin via Tigers wrote: Tiger Running hot ? Shotgun Approach after time of trying baby steps. After about a year of struggling with car running hot at idle with the hood down, Hot to me is 195 degrees and above. I took drastic steps. I have been driving the car during the last year only on back roads with not much chance of traffic lights and traffic. I live in rural NC outside of Pinehurst. Bloody yahoo mail formatting ruined numbering copied from MS Word, so please ignore. 1. Purchased and installed Sunbeam Specialties (SS) gloss black radiator overflow tank, missing from car. 2. Purchased and installed overflow tank straps from Alexander Washick alw6464 at gmail.com which are powder coated, missing from car. 1. Purchased and installed undersize water pump pulley from Robert Straghan scuffed, primed and painted semi gloss black 2. Purchased and installed horn hole block plates from Don Lutjen scuffed, primed and painted semi gloss black. 3. Purchased and installed new taller custom aluminum cross flow side tank radiator from Griffin Radiator. 4. Purchased and installed new Flow Kooler water pump BRA-1680 painted Ford dark blue to match engine replacing SS water pump, pressed hub to line up. 5. Modified the mechanical fan spacer so that front of fan is 1? from radiator. 6. Mechanical fan remains Flex-a-Lite 14? nylon 6 blade fan. 7. Purchased and installed new SS lower radiator and overflow to radiator hoses. 8. New top radiator hose from local source, as SS hose would not fit taller radiator. 9. New fan belt. 10. Purchased and refurbished original Tiger fan shroud which would not fit as I did not want to cut a original shroud top mounting bracket to fit my taller radiator. Striped, primed and painted used shroud semi gloss black ? sitting on shelf. 11. Installed 160 degree thermostat from 180. Could not find 170 degree. If anyone has a part number and supplier for a 170-degree thermostat, please forward. So at this point I do not have a fan shroud ? unless make up a custom. Other changes could make is front air dam and block front cross member to bottom of radiator spacing but for now I am going to see how things play out this summer. Ok after all the above I was still not satisfied with watching the temperature gauge increase while at idle or in stop and go traffic. Goal was to keep the temperature at ALL times between 180 and 190 degrees whether driving or at idle. The following changes have been made since the above changes 1-13 after trial period of 6 months or so. The Flow Kooler water pump started leaking so I purchased the SS water pump and installed it and drove for a month or so. Install error on the Flow Kooler water pump gasket turned out to be the problem. The SS water pump actually raised idle temps 2-3 degrees so I would later reinstall the Flow Kooler with a new gasket. 1. Installed a couple of 12? electric pusher fans I had in the garage and wired a manual off/on switch under the dash with a relay. Not much help or change in idle temperature while at stoplights or stop\go traffic. 2. Built and installed a custom fan shroud. Remember I have an oversize Griffin radiator. This change resulted in idle temp. drop by maybe 2-3 degrees. Goal not achieve at this point but getting better. 3. I then discussed issue with Flex-a-lite technical services hot line (multiple times) regarding their electric pusher fan line. * The rule of thumb they recommend: Electric fans of either the pusher or puller type should be that the electric fan should cover 70% of the radiator surface. Mine came out to 69.5% coverage. * Small block V-8 engines recommendation is 3,000 CFM. * Flex - a- Lite had only 1 fan that met these specifications. FLX-105391 Electric Fan, Pusher, Flex-Wave, Single, 16 in. Diameter, 3,000 cfm, Black, 20 amps, (Mfr. #: 239) * Also purchased temp probe and relay from Flex ? a Lite which is adjustable so you can set when the fan comes on. Off is 10 degrees from on temp and is NOT adjustable. FLX-121281 Fan Control, Compact, Adjustable, Thread-in Probe, Single Fan, Kit (Mfr. #: 33095) e. Also purchased temperature probe adapter and installed in the upper radiator hose. FLX-107078 Radiator Hose Adapter, Aluminum, Fits 1 1/2 in. Hose, Has Two 1/4 in. NPT Ports, Includes One Plug, Each (Mfr. #: 32082) The idea was to run the stock temp gauge probe into the adapter and keep my mechanical temperature gauge in place in the manifold to verify stock gauge was pretty accurate. The ? NPT port would not handle the stock probe and I could not find 1/4 probe with the correct ohms for the stock gauge, so manual temp gauge is still in place which I believe is accurate. f. Goal still not achieved 1. Flex - a - Lite then offered the following advice ? ?You typically only need one or the other. If you have a mechanical fan and just want extra cooling in stop and go traffic, I suggest you use a much smaller electric fan. But using both a mechanical and this bigger electric fan will probably cause some disruption.? The two smaller electric fans I used did not work in my case, so advice about smaller electric fan in conjunction with mechanical water pump fan did not work in my particular car. Plan ?. Reinstalled the Flow Kooler water pump with new gasket. * Removed the mechanical fan from the water pump and the 1? spacer. Finally success! Temp stays between 176 and 190 at ALL times regardless of ambient temperature and traffic conditions. So, in my case, the mechanical fan in conjunction with the electric fan was causing air flow disruption. * The temp at speed above 35 mph, the car runs around 176 degrees with 160 degree thermostat in temps 90 degrees and less. About 183 in temperatures above 90, so not a issue. I might try out the 180 degree thermostat at some point, 170 if I could find one might be optimum for my car. The only down side for me is the electric fan is noisy when running and volts on volt gauge drops around ? - ?- volt when the fan comes on.. The battery volts dropping are due to fan drawing 20 amps. This has not been a issue with lights on or off. I have a alternator and not the generator so with generator cars, this might be an issue. Now I cannot hear the electric fan at all inside the car but outside, it is noisy when running. Headers, 2.25" exhaust pipes with Flow Master series 40 mufflers. I wonder why I cannot hear fan running. So you see I have tried almost all recommended suggestions except lower shroud addition and air dam to direct airflow. Every car reacts differently to changes and you have to keep trying different approaches that might work for your car and temperature\humidity of the area you reside. What changes I have made to me that had the biggest result and what would I try again in what order to minimize cost, effort and work involved. Yahoo formatting again. Test temp gauge and sender to ensure reading properly. 1. Ensure radiator in good working order. 2. Change thermostat from 180 to 170 then 160. 3. Install horn block off plates, minimal cost and about 1 hour to install. 4. Fan shroud if you do not have one, 2-3 degrees improvement in my case, custom made. Possible making of the lower portion of the shroud as well, which I have not done. 5. Undersize water pump pulley and at same time, try a different mechanical fan and ensure fan is 1? from radiator. 6. Flow Kooler water pump BRA-1680, 2-3 degrees improvement in my case 7. New Griffin radiator. They sell a package for the Tiger with radiator, electric fan and shroud. Remember my radiator is a custom oversize radiator install by previous owner and the stock Griffin radiator or package would not work in my case but I have installed a new custom Griffin radiator. 8. Remove mechanical fan and install electric pusher fan that covers 70% of your radiator surface and moves 3,000 cfm?s as recommended for small block V-8 motors. Items 8 and 9 could be in reverse order and step 9 will not necessary if you purchase the Griffin Tiger package, your call. So you see I have tried almost all recommended suggestions except lower shroud addition and air dam to direct air flow and have finally met my goal of keeping the temperature between 180 to 190 degrees in all driving conditions. I hope my trials and findings will help you moving forward. Any questions, please ask. Regards Joel Martin On Wednesday, July 19, 2023 at 09:09:34 PM EDT, tigers-request at autox.team.net wrote: Send Tigers mailing list submissions to tigers at autox.team.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to tigers-request at autox.team.net You can reach the person managing the list at tigers-owner at autox.team.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Tigers digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: Cooling Fan (LARRY PAULICK) Joe, I did an article for Tigers United, that describes with photographs what I did for the full fans shroud. TigersUnited.com tigersunited.com BTW, Tigers United has a lot of great articles covering the variety of subjects. You might want to check it out. On Jul 19, 2023, at 10:31 AM, Joe Brown wrote: Thanks for all of the replies. I have a mostly stock engine (with Edelbrock intake and 4 bbl.) and stock radiator. I have a temperature gauge mounted on the intake and the engine seems to run a little over 200 at idle but I haven't had any problems while driving the car. My problem right now is that I took the car out one afternoon when the temperature was over 100 degrees and when I pulled into the garage and shut the engine off it puked some water onto the floor. The temp gauge was showing around 250 degrees at that point. I already have the lower shroud on my radiator and I am making some horn opening covers today. I will also look at blocking off the area below the radiator. I have read all of the articles that people have referred to and I believe I have an airflow problem at low speeds. So I was just looking for pusher fan recommendations at this point. The best advice is to probably not drive in 100+ degree weather. Thanks, Joe Brown On Wed, Jul 19, 2023 at 8:33?AM LARRY PAULICK via Tigers wrote: I made a custom lower fan shroud, as one does not exist for the stock tiger, fan shroud. I did smoke test with the car at idle and the air comes through the radiator down towards the ground and circles back through the radiator again. So essentially you're just recycling hot air from your own radiator. It works. On Jul 19, 2023, at 2:03 AM, Owain Lloyd wrote: I think michael hit the nail on the head. first need to know is it overheating when stationary / moving slowly or at speed? a pusher fan will only help at very low speed or when stopped. and spal is the go to brand. still need the horn holes and gap between cross member and rad blocked. cardboard and zip ties does the trick quickly and can be replaced with a more permanent solution later if you want. also need a fan shroud. personally i've never needed the electric pusher fan because i have a small 13" flex fan on the water pump pulley. that creates enough pull through the radiator at idle. if its overheating at more than 30/40mph then its another problem entirely and there are a variety of other things to check. in my case its fuel boiling in the carb under certain conditions (slowing down after running fast in really high ambient temps above a particular altitude) rather than coolant temp which is the problem. there are a bunch of things i could do there, most importantly a carb heat shield, but i've only suffered from it once. one thing i've found very useful for debugging cooling issues in the tiger over the years is having a glass gano filter in the rad top hose. at least you can see how the coolant is circulating which helps with thermostat or water pump issues and if you're used to how it should look, even how blocked the radiator is. On Wed, Jul 19, 2023 at 7:41?AM Jim B via Tigers wrote: I?ve been reading about cooling issues with tigers for more that a decade (much less than some reading this) blocking horn holes, pusher fans, and shrouds etc etc. Entire studies have been done on this issue. Just check STOA, CAT or any club site. All good reads! I think the first place to start is knowing what the actual engine team really is. We all know that the original temp guage can be off. The other thing is: as a dyed in the wool ford guy, 185 degrees is the optimal engine temp. But, Ford engines can get to 195-200 degrees easily and that is not necessarily a bad thing. Yes, I put a pusher in mine only because I had one. I?m not really sure is does anything. My original guage can show 225-230 on a hot day (humidity plays a bitg role) but never has pucked out fluid. The design of the should is an issue. It lets hot air from the engine compartment to get under the radiator. Many, many, ?fixes? that can be done. However, on a hot low humidity day.. well good luck. JMO On Jul 18, 2023, at 8:40 PM, Allan Ballard wrote: The article includes several suggestions. One of them is to seal the missing section of the stock fan shroud at the bottom. A list member offered a piece he fabricated. I obtained one and here are a couple of pictures. I hope to fit it later this year. Even a few degrees of cooling will be worth the effort. Allan Ballard Mk1a Tiger Sent from my iPhone On Jul 18, 2023, at 10:57 PM, Jay Laifman wrote: Have you looked at this cooling suggestions? http://tigersunited.com/techtips/SteveLaifmanValance/pt-SteveLaifmanValance1.asp It works great in Southern California heat. On Tue, Jul 18, 2023 at 3:42?PM Joe Brown wrote: My Tiger can't keep up with this 100 degree weather in Texas. I've read through the article by Tiger Tom and Chuck King and I will make some of the suggested modifications. They listed two different pusher electric fans in the article but both of them are no longer available. So, has anybody recently installed a pusher fan? If so, what part numbers? Thanks, Joe Brown _______________________________________________ tigers at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/jay.laifman at gmail.com _______________________________________________ tigers at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/aballard at ix.netcom.com _______________________________________________ tigers at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/jbsyv at yahoo.com _______________________________________________ tigers at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/owain.lloyd at gmail.com _______________________________________________ tigers at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/lpaulick1 at verizon.net _______________________________________________ tigers at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/jbbrown1980 at gmail.com _______________________________________________ Tigers mailing list Tigers at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive _______________________________________________ tigers at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/atwittsend at verizon.net _______________________________________________ tigers at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/coolvt at aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From coolvt at aol.com Thu Jul 20 17:10:58 2023 From: coolvt at aol.com (M Lafayette) Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2023 23:10:58 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Tigers] Tigers Digest, Vol 16, Issue 143 In-Reply-To: References: <1735890384.1628892.1689864429073@mail.yahoo.com> <9c1dbc06-8149-cc45-c8f9-0473d7f12b98@verizon.net> <1748035535.3021761.1689876770577@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1907197432.3176268.1689894658364@mail.yahoo.com> Lynn, Stock radiator? And, what fan? In a message dated 7/20/2023 5:37:00 PM Eastern Daylight Time, cars at wt-inc.com writes:? With a proper full shroud it would work well.? Probably be enough with Horn block offs. ? I am running a 347 stroker, 565 ish HP and full air conditioning and never get over 185-195 degrees with A/C in 100 degree heat.? Can do it all day. ? Lynn ? From: Tigers On Behalf Of M Lafayette via Tigers Sent: Thursday, July 20, 2023 12:13 PM To: atwittsend at verizon.net; tigers at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tigers Digest, Vol 16, Issue 143 ? In speaking to a rep. from a fan company years ago, he mentioned that a "puller" elect. fan would cool either 2 or 3 times (can't remember the number) as well as a "pusher" elect. fan.? Makes sense since modern cars seems to use puller elctric's.? Has anyone tried just one good elect. puller on a Tiger? Mark In a message dated 7/20/2023 1:58:29 PM Eastern Daylight Time, tigers at autox.team.net writes: ? As I was reading your "journey" when you got to the Flex-a-Lite fan (initial item #6) I thought it might be suspect. Most people seem to have success with the Maverick fan, the Volvo fan or a particular Derale fan.? I can see where a pusher fan might impede airflow of a mechanical puller fan but not the other way where a puller fan impedes the flow of a pusher fan. That said given the "Flex" aspect of the Flex-a-Lite fan I wonder if it creates a "wall of wind" and was causing the overheating issue. Without smoke to see the flow of air movement I'm always baffled by things that blow over - and those that don't, leaves that deposit in one area of the yard - and not another. So, whatever the flex fan was doing it seems germane to the itself as others have not had the same issue with the recommended fans and a pusher fan. I won't ask if the fan was installed backwards (you seen way smarter than that) but does the possibility exist that the fan design was for counter rotation? With serpentine belts in cars these days the rotation of the water pump is often opposite of earlier engines of the same design. The good news is that you found a solution to your problem. Enjoy the ride. On 7/20/2023 7:47 AM, Joel Martin via Tigers wrote: Tiger Running hot ? Shotgun Approach after time of trying baby steps. After about a year of struggling with car running hot at idle with the hood down, Hot to me is 195 degrees and above. I took drastic steps.? I have been driving the car during the last year only on back roads with not much chance of traffic lights and traffic.? I live in rural NC outside of Pinehurst. ????? Bloody yahoo mail formatting ruined numbering copied from MS Word, so please ignore.? ? ? ?? 1. Purchased and installed Sunbeam Specialties (SS) gloss black radiator overflow tank, missing from car. ?????? 2. Purchased and installed overflow tank straps from Alexander Washick?alw6464 at gmail.com which are powder coated, missing from car. - Purchased and installed undersize water pump pulley from Robert Straghan? scuffed, primed and painted semi gloss black - Purchased and installed horn hole block plates from Don Lutjen? scuffed, primed and painted semi gloss black. - Purchased and installed new taller custom aluminum cross flow side tank radiator from Griffin Radiator. - Purchased and installed new Flow Kooler water pump BRA-1680 painted Ford dark blue to match engine replacing SS water pump, pressed hub to line up. - Modified the mechanical fan spacer so that front of fan is 1? from radiator. - Mechanical fan remains Flex-a-Lite 14? nylon 6 blade fan. - Purchased and installed new SS lower radiator and overflow to radiator hoses. - New top radiator hose from local source, as SS hose would not fit taller radiator. - New fan belt. - Purchased and refurbished original Tiger fan shroud which would not fit as I did not want to cut a original shroud top mounting bracket to fit my taller radiator.? Striped, primed and painted used shroud semi gloss black ? sitting on shelf. - Installed 160 degree thermostat from 180.? Could not find 170 degree.? If anyone has a part number and supplier for a 170-degree thermostat, please forward. So at this point I do not have a fan shroud ? unless make up a custom.? Other changes could make is front air dam and block front cross member to bottom of radiator spacing but for now I am going to see how things play out this summer. ?Ok after all the above I was still not satisfied with watching the temperature gauge increase while at idle or in stop and go traffic.? Goal was to keep the temperature at ALL times between 180 and 190 degrees whether driving or at idle. ?The following changes have been made since the above changes 1-13 after trial period of 6 months or so. ?The Flow Kooler water pump started leaking so I purchased the SS water pump and installed it and drove for a month or so.? Install error on the Flow Kooler water pump gasket turned out to be the problem.? The SS water pump actually raised idle temps 2-3 degrees so I would later reinstall the Flow Kooler with a new gasket. - Installed a couple of 12? electric pusher fans I had in the garage and wired a manual off/on switch under the dash with a relay.? Not much help or change in idle temperature while at stoplights or stop\go traffic. - Built and installed a custom fan shroud.? Remember I have an oversize Griffin radiator.? This change resulted in idle temp. drop by maybe 2-3 degrees.? Goal not achieve at this point but getting better. - I then discussed issue with Flex-a-lite technical services hot line (multiple times) regarding their electric pusher fan line. - The rule of thumb they recommend:? Electric fans of either the pusher or puller type should be that the electric fan should cover 70% of the radiator surface.? Mine came out to 69.5% coverage. - Small block V-8 engines recommendation is? 3,000 CFM. - Flex - a- Lite had only 1 fan that met these specifications. | ? | FLX-105391 Electric Fan, Pusher, Flex-Wave, Single, 16 in. Diameter, 3,000 cfm, Black, 20 amps,? (Mfr. #: 239) | - Also purchased temp probe and relay from Flex ? a Lite which is adjustable so you can set when the fan comes on.? Off is 10 degrees from on temp and is NOT adjustable. | ? | FLX-121281 Fan Control, Compact, Adjustable, Thread-in Probe, Single Fan, Kit (Mfr. #: 33095) | ?????????? e. Also purchased temperature probe adapter and installed in the upper radiator hose. | ? | FLX-107078 Radiator Hose Adapter, Aluminum, Fits 1 1/2 in. Hose, Has Two 1/4 in. NPT Ports, Includes One Plug, Each (Mfr. #: 32082) | The idea was to run the stock temp gauge probe???? into the adapter and keep my mechanical temperature gauge in place in the manifold to verify stock gauge was pretty accurate.? The ? NPT port would not handle the stock probe and I could not find 1/4 probe with the correct ohms for the stock gauge, so manual temp gauge is still in place which I believe is accurate. ?????????????f.? Goal still not achieved - Flex - a - Lite then offered the following advice ? ?You typically only need one or the other. If you have a mechanical fan and just want extra cooling in stop and go traffic, I suggest you use a much smaller electric fan. But using both a mechanical and this bigger electric fan will probably cause some disruption.?? The two smaller electric fans I used did not work in my case, so advice about smaller electric fan in conjunction with mechanical water pump fan did not work in my particular car. ?Plan ?. Reinstalled the Flow Kooler water pump with new gasket. - Removed the mechanical fan from the water pump and the 1? spacer.? Finally success!? Temp stays between 176 and 190 at ALL times regardless of ambient temperature and traffic conditions. So, in my case, the mechanical fan in conjunction with the electric fan was causing air flow disruption. - ?The temp at speed above 35 mph, the car runs around 176 degrees with 160 degree thermostat in temps 90 degrees and less.? About 183 in temperatures above 90, so not a issue. I might try out the 180 degree thermostat at some point, 170 if I could find one might be optimum for my car.? The only down side for me is the electric fan is noisy when running and volts on volt gauge drops around ? - ?- volt when the fan comes on.. The battery volts dropping are due to fan drawing 20 amps. This has not been a issue with lights on or off. I have a alternator and not the generator so with generator cars, this might be an issue.? Now I cannot hear the electric fan at all inside the car but outside, it is noisy when running.? Headers, 2.25" exhaust pipes with Flow Master series 40 mufflers.? I wonder why I cannot hear fan running. ?So you see I have tried almost all recommended suggestions except lower shroud addition and air dam to direct airflow. ?Every car reacts differently to changes and you have to keep trying different approaches that might work for your car and temperature\humidity of the area you reside. ?What changes I have made to me that had the biggest result and what would I try again in what order to minimize cost, effort and work involved. Yahoo formatting again. Test temp gauge and sender to ensure reading properly. - Ensure radiator in good working order. - Change thermostat from 180 to 170 then 160. - Install horn block off plates, minimal cost and about 1 hour to install. - Fan shroud if you do not have one, 2-3 degrees improvement in my case, custom made.? Possible making of the lower portion of the shroud as well, which I have not done. - Undersize water pump pulley and at same time, try a different mechanical fan and ensure fan is 1? from radiator. - Flow Kooler water pump BRA-1680, 2-3 degrees improvement in my case - New Griffin radiator.? They sell a package for the Tiger with radiator, electric fan and shroud.? Remember my radiator is a custom oversize radiator install by previous owner and the stock Griffin radiator or package would not work in my case but I have installed a new custom Griffin radiator. - Remove mechanical fan and install electric pusher fan that covers 70% of your radiator surface and moves 3,000 cfm?s as recommended for small block V-8 motors. Items 8 and 9 could be in reverse order and step 9 will not necessary if you purchase the Griffin Tiger package, your call. ?So you see I have tried almost all recommended suggestions except lower shroud addition and air dam to direct air flow and have finally met my goal of keeping the temperature between 180 to 190 degrees in all driving conditions.? I hope my trials and findings will help you moving forward.? Any questions, please ask. ?Regards Joel Martin ? On Wednesday, July 19, 2023 at 09:09:34 PM EDT, tigers-request at autox.team.net wrote: ? ? Send Tigers mailing list submissions to ??? tigers at autox.team.net ? To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit ??? http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to ??? tigers-request at autox.team.net ? You can reach the person managing the list at ??? tigers-owner at autox.team.net ? When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Tigers digest..." Today's Topics: ? 1. Re: Cooling Fan (LARRY PAULICK) Joe, I did an article for Tigers United, that describes with photographs what I did for the full fans shroud. ? | | TigersUnited.com tigersunited.com | ? | | ? BTW, Tigers United has a lot of great articles covering the variety of subjects. You might want to check it out.? ? ? ? On Jul 19, 2023, at 10:31 AM, Joe Brown wrote: ? Thanks for all of the replies.? I have a mostly stock engine (with Edelbrock intake and 4 bbl.) and stock radiator.? I have a temperature gauge mounted on the intake and the engine seems to run a little over 200 at idle but I haven't had any problems while driving the car.? My problem right now is that I took the car out one afternoon when the temperature was over 100 degrees and when I pulled into the garage and shut the engine off it puked some water onto the floor.? The temp gauge was showing around 250 degrees at that point.?? ? I already have the lower shroud on my radiator and I am making some horn opening covers today.? I will also look at blocking off the area below the radiator.? I have read all of the articles that people have referred to and I believe I have an airflow problem at low speeds.? So I was just looking for pusher fan recommendations at this point.? ? ? The best advice is to probably not drive in 100+ degree weather. ? Thanks, Joe Brown ? On Wed, Jul 19, 2023 at 8:33?AM LARRY PAULICK via Tigers wrote: I made a custom lower fan shroud, as one does not exist for the stock tiger, fan shroud. I did smoke test with the car at idle and the air comes through the radiator down towards the ground and circles back through the radiator again. So essentially you're just recycling hot air from your own radiator.? It works.? ? On Jul 19, 2023, at 2:03 AM, Owain Lloyd wrote: ? I think michael hit the nail on the head.? first need to know is it overheating when stationary / moving slowly or at speed? ? a pusher fan will only help at very low speed or when stopped.? and spal is the go to brand.? ?still need the horn holes and gap between cross member and rad blocked.? cardboard and zip ties does the trick quickly and can be replaced with a more permanent?solution later if you want.? also need a fan shroud. ? personally i've never needed the electric pusher fan because i have a small 13" flex fan on the water pump pulley.? that creates enough pull through the radiator at idle. ? if its?overheating at more than 30/40mph then its another problem entirely and there are a variety?of other things to check. ? in my case its fuel boiling in the carb under certain conditions?(slowing down after running fast in really high ambient temps above a particular altitude) rather than coolant temp which is the problem.? there are a bunch of things i could do there, most importantly a carb heat shield, but i've?only suffered from it once. ? one thing i've found very useful for debugging cooling issues in the tiger over the years is having a glass gano filter in the rad top hose.? at least you can see how the coolant is circulating which helps with thermostat or water pump issues and if you're used to how it should look, even how blocked the radiator is. ? ? On Wed, Jul 19, 2023 at 7:41?AM Jim B via Tigers wrote: I?ve been reading?about cooling issues with tigers for more that a decade (much less than some reading this) blocking horn holes, pusher fans, and shrouds etc etc. Entire studies have been done on?this issue. Just check STOA, CAT or any club site. All good reads! I think the first place to start is?knowing what the actual?engine team really is. We all know that the original temp guage can be off. The other thing is: as a dyed in the wool ford guy, 185 degrees is the optimal engine temp. But, Ford engines can get to 195-200 degrees easily and that is not?necessarily a bad thing. Yes, I put a pusher in mine only because I had one. I?m not really sure is does?anything. My?original guage can show 225-230 on ?a hot day (humidity plays a bitg role) but never has pucked out fluid. The design of the should is an?issue. It lets hot air from the engine compartment to get under the radiator. Many, many, ?fixes? that can be?done. However, on a hot low humidity day.. well good luck. JMO ? On Jul 18, 2023, at 8:40 PM, Allan Ballard wrote: ? The article includes several suggestions. ? One of them is to seal the missing section of the stock fan shroud at the bottom. ? A list member offered a piece he fabricated. ? I obtained one and here are a couple of pictures. I hope to fit it later this year. ? Even a few degrees of cooling will be worth the effort. ? Allan Ballard Mk1a Tiger ? Sent from my iPhone ? On Jul 18, 2023, at 10:57 PM, Jay Laifman wrote: Have you looked at this cooling suggestions? ?http://tigersunited.com/techtips/SteveLaifmanValance/pt-SteveLaifmanValance1.asp ? It works great in Southern California heat. ? On Tue, Jul 18, 2023 at 3:42?PM Joe Brown wrote: My Tiger can't keep up with this 100 degree weather in Texas.? I've read through the article by Tiger Tom and Chuck King and I will make some of the suggested modifications.? They listed two different pusher electric fans in the article but both of them are no longer available. ? So, has anybody recently installed a pusher fan?? If so, what part numbers? ? Thanks, Joe Brown _______________________________________________ tigers at autox.team.net Donate:?http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive:?http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers?http://autox.team.net/archive Unsubscribe:?http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/jay.laifman at gmail.com _______________________________________________ tigers at autox.team.net Donate:?http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive:?http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers?http://autox.team.net/archive Unsubscribe:?http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/aballard at ix.netcom.com _______________________________________________ tigers at autox.team.net Donate:?http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive:?http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers?http://autox.team.net/archive Unsubscribe:?http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/jbsyv at yahoo.com _______________________________________________ tigers at autox.team.net Donate:?http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive:?http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers?http://autox.team.net/archive Unsubscribe:?http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/owain.lloyd at gmail.com _______________________________________________ tigers at autox.team.net Donate:?http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive:?http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers?http://autox.team.net/archive Unsubscribe:?http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/lpaulick1 at verizon.net _______________________________________________ tigers at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/jbbrown1980 at gmail.com _______________________________________________ Tigers mailing list Tigers at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive ? _______________________________________________ ?tigers at autox.team.net ?Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.htmlArchive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive ?Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/atwittsend at verizon.net ? ? _______________________________________________ tigers at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/coolvt at aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cars at wt-inc.com Thu Jul 20 20:00:34 2023 From: cars at wt-inc.com (Cars) Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2023 02:00:34 +0000 Subject: [Tigers] Tigers Digest, Vol 16, Issue 143 In-Reply-To: <1907197432.3176268.1689894658364@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1735890384.1628892.1689864429073@mail.yahoo.com> <9c1dbc06-8149-cc45-c8f9-0473d7f12b98@verizon.net> <1748035535.3021761.1689876770577@mail.yahoo.com> <1907197432.3176268.1689894658364@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <61B7D3BC-2AC8-4D5E-BBDA-667ED039454F@wt-inc.com> Fluidyne radiator and the fan came with the front runner system. Electric. Ran by the engine management system. However the most important part is that it is fitted and mounted into a custom FULL shroud However my first tiger 465 hp stroked 331 had a flex fan with a Ron Davis radiator. Everything else stock. I made a new shroud that was complete and fit well. No problem with heat at all. LAT hood with functioning rear vents. The hood needs to be modified to make the vents functional. Just did one for a customer. Warmed up 289 stock radiator tanks but the rest modified by Tom Hall. Complete shroud. Ran as cool as can be. The key, in my opinion, is the shroud. Until that is addressed (and horn block offs). Everything else is guess and prayer Studies have show. That the thermal efficiency/weight advantages of aluminum are marginal. Basically brass is just as good. Aluminum is flashy. But you will struggle getting it repaired. They are pretty much disposable. In many instances the end tanks are epoxied on. Having said that, I have aluminum in every car but my my mini, model A and mustang. My 2 cents Lynn Sent from my mobile device On Jul 20, 2023, at 5:11 PM, M Lafayette wrote: ? Lynn, Stock radiator? And, what fan? In a message dated 7/20/2023 5:37:00 PM Eastern Daylight Time, cars at wt-inc.com writes: With a proper full shroud it would work well. Probably be enough with Horn block offs. I am running a 347 stroker, 565 ish HP and full air conditioning and never get over 185-195 degrees with A/C in 100 degree heat. Can do it all day. Lynn From: Tigers On Behalf Of M Lafayette via Tigers Sent: Thursday, July 20, 2023 12:13 PM To: atwittsend at verizon.net; tigers at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tigers Digest, Vol 16, Issue 143 In speaking to a rep. from a fan company years ago, he mentioned that a "puller" elect. fan would cool either 2 or 3 times (can't remember the number) as well as a "pusher" elect. fan. Makes sense since modern cars seems to use puller elctric's. Has anyone tried just one good elect. puller on a Tiger? Mark In a message dated 7/20/2023 1:58:29 PM Eastern Daylight Time, tigers at autox.team.net writes: As I was reading your "journey" when you got to the Flex-a-Lite fan (initial item #6) I thought it might be suspect. Most people seem to have success with the Maverick fan, the Volvo fan or a particular Derale fan. I can see where a pusher fan might impede airflow of a mechanical puller fan but not the other way where a puller fan impedes the flow of a pusher fan. That said given the "Flex" aspect of the Flex-a-Lite fan I wonder if it creates a "wall of wind" and was causing the overheating issue. Without smoke to see the flow of air movement I'm always baffled by things that blow over - and those that don't, leaves that deposit in one area of the yard - and not another. So, whatever the flex fan was doing it seems germane to the itself as others have not had the same issue with the recommended fans and a pusher fan. I won't ask if the fan was installed backwards (you seen way smarter than that) but does the possibility exist that the fan design was for counter rotation? With serpentine belts in cars these days the rotation of the water pump is often opposite of earlier engines of the same design. The good news is that you found a solution to your problem. Enjoy the ride. On 7/20/2023 7:47 AM, Joel Martin via Tigers wrote: Tiger Running hot ? Shotgun Approach after time of trying baby steps. After about a year of struggling with car running hot at idle with the hood down, Hot to me is 195 degrees and above. I took drastic steps. I have been driving the car during the last year only on back roads with not much chance of traffic lights and traffic. I live in rural NC outside of Pinehurst. Bloody yahoo mail formatting ruined numbering copied from MS Word, so please ignore. 1. Purchased and installed Sunbeam Specialties (SS) gloss black radiator overflow tank, missing from car. 2. Purchased and installed overflow tank straps from Alexander Washick alw6464 at gmail.com which are powder coated, missing from car. 1. Purchased and installed undersize water pump pulley from Robert Straghan scuffed, primed and painted semi gloss black 2. Purchased and installed horn hole block plates from Don Lutjen scuffed, primed and painted semi gloss black. 3. Purchased and installed new taller custom aluminum cross flow side tank radiator from Griffin Radiator. 4. Purchased and installed new Flow Kooler water pump BRA-1680 painted Ford dark blue to match engine replacing SS water pump, pressed hub to line up. 5. Modified the mechanical fan spacer so that front of fan is 1? from radiator. 6. Mechanical fan remains Flex-a-Lite 14? nylon 6 blade fan. 7. Purchased and installed new SS lower radiator and overflow to radiator hoses. 8. New top radiator hose from local source, as SS hose would not fit taller radiator. 9. New fan belt. 10. Purchased and refurbished original Tiger fan shroud which would not fit as I did not want to cut a original shroud top mounting bracket to fit my taller radiator. Striped, primed and painted used shroud semi gloss black ? sitting on shelf. 11. Installed 160 degree thermostat from 180. Could not find 170 degree. If anyone has a part number and supplier for a 170-degree thermostat, please forward. So at this point I do not have a fan shroud ? unless make up a custom. Other changes could make is front air dam and block front cross member to bottom of radiator spacing but for now I am going to see how things play out this summer. Ok after all the above I was still not satisfied with watching the temperature gauge increase while at idle or in stop and go traffic. Goal was to keep the temperature at ALL times between 180 and 190 degrees whether driving or at idle. The following changes have been made since the above changes 1-13 after trial period of 6 months or so. The Flow Kooler water pump started leaking so I purchased the SS water pump and installed it and drove for a month or so. Install error on the Flow Kooler water pump gasket turned out to be the problem. The SS water pump actually raised idle temps 2-3 degrees so I would later reinstall the Flow Kooler with a new gasket. 1. Installed a couple of 12? electric pusher fans I had in the garage and wired a manual off/on switch under the dash with a relay. Not much help or change in idle temperature while at stoplights or stop\go traffic. 2. Built and installed a custom fan shroud. Remember I have an oversize Griffin radiator. This change resulted in idle temp. drop by maybe 2-3 degrees. Goal not achieve at this point but getting better. 3. I then discussed issue with Flex-a-lite technical services hot line (multiple times) regarding their electric pusher fan line. * The rule of thumb they recommend: Electric fans of either the pusher or puller type should be that the electric fan should cover 70% of the radiator surface. Mine came out to 69.5% coverage. * Small block V-8 engines recommendation is 3,000 CFM. * Flex - a- Lite had only 1 fan that met these specifications. FLX-105391 Electric Fan, Pusher, Flex-Wave, Single, 16 in. Diameter, 3,000 cfm, Black, 20 amps, (Mfr. #: 239) * Also purchased temp probe and relay from Flex ? a Lite which is adjustable so you can set when the fan comes on. Off is 10 degrees from on temp and is NOT adjustable. FLX-121281 Fan Control, Compact, Adjustable, Thread-in Probe, Single Fan, Kit (Mfr. #: 33095) e. Also purchased temperature probe adapter and installed in the upper radiator hose. FLX-107078 Radiator Hose Adapter, Aluminum, Fits 1 1/2 in. Hose, Has Two 1/4 in. NPT Ports, Includes One Plug, Each (Mfr. #: 32082) The idea was to run the stock temp gauge probe into the adapter and keep my mechanical temperature gauge in place in the manifold to verify stock gauge was pretty accurate. The ? NPT port would not handle the stock probe and I could not find 1/4 probe with the correct ohms for the stock gauge, so manual temp gauge is still in place which I believe is accurate. f. Goal still not achieved 1. Flex - a - Lite then offered the following advice ? ?You typically only need one or the other. If you have a mechanical fan and just want extra cooling in stop and go traffic, I suggest you use a much smaller electric fan. But using both a mechanical and this bigger electric fan will probably cause some disruption.? The two smaller electric fans I used did not work in my case, so advice about smaller electric fan in conjunction with mechanical water pump fan did not work in my particular car. Plan ?. Reinstalled the Flow Kooler water pump with new gasket. * Removed the mechanical fan from the water pump and the 1? spacer. Finally success! Temp stays between 176 and 190 at ALL times regardless of ambient temperature and traffic conditions. So, in my case, the mechanical fan in conjunction with the electric fan was causing air flow disruption. * The temp at speed above 35 mph, the car runs around 176 degrees with 160 degree thermostat in temps 90 degrees and less. About 183 in temperatures above 90, so not a issue. I might try out the 180 degree thermostat at some point, 170 if I could find one might be optimum for my car. The only down side for me is the electric fan is noisy when running and volts on volt gauge drops around ? - ?- volt when the fan comes on.. The battery volts dropping are due to fan drawing 20 amps. This has not been a issue with lights on or off. I have a alternator and not the generator so with generator cars, this might be an issue. Now I cannot hear the electric fan at all inside the car but outside, it is noisy when running. Headers, 2.25" exhaust pipes with Flow Master series 40 mufflers. I wonder why I cannot hear fan running. So you see I have tried almost all recommended suggestions except lower shroud addition and air dam to direct airflow. Every car reacts differently to changes and you have to keep trying different approaches that might work for your car and temperature\humidity of the area you reside. What changes I have made to me that had the biggest result and what would I try again in what order to minimize cost, effort and work involved. Yahoo formatting again. Test temp gauge and sender to ensure reading properly. 1. Ensure radiator in good working order. 2. Change thermostat from 180 to 170 then 160. 3. Install horn block off plates, minimal cost and about 1 hour to install. 4. Fan shroud if you do not have one, 2-3 degrees improvement in my case, custom made. Possible making of the lower portion of the shroud as well, which I have not done. 5. Undersize water pump pulley and at same time, try a different mechanical fan and ensure fan is 1? from radiator. 6. Flow Kooler water pump BRA-1680, 2-3 degrees improvement in my case 7. New Griffin radiator. They sell a package for the Tiger with radiator, electric fan and shroud. Remember my radiator is a custom oversize radiator install by previous owner and the stock Griffin radiator or package would not work in my case but I have installed a new custom Griffin radiator. 8. Remove mechanical fan and install electric pusher fan that covers 70% of your radiator surface and moves 3,000 cfm?s as recommended for small block V-8 motors. Items 8 and 9 could be in reverse order and step 9 will not necessary if you purchase the Griffin Tiger package, your call. So you see I have tried almost all recommended suggestions except lower shroud addition and air dam to direct air flow and have finally met my goal of keeping the temperature between 180 to 190 degrees in all driving conditions. I hope my trials and findings will help you moving forward. Any questions, please ask. Regards Joel Martin On Wednesday, July 19, 2023 at 09:09:34 PM EDT, tigers-request at autox.team.net wrote: Send Tigers mailing list submissions to tigers at autox.team.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to tigers-request at autox.team.net You can reach the person managing the list at tigers-owner at autox.team.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Tigers digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: Cooling Fan (LARRY PAULICK) Joe, I did an article for Tigers United, that describes with photographs what I did for the full fans shroud. TigersUnited.com tigersunited.com BTW, Tigers United has a lot of great articles covering the variety of subjects. You might want to check it out. On Jul 19, 2023, at 10:31 AM, Joe Brown wrote: Thanks for all of the replies. I have a mostly stock engine (with Edelbrock intake and 4 bbl.) and stock radiator. I have a temperature gauge mounted on the intake and the engine seems to run a little over 200 at idle but I haven't had any problems while driving the car. My problem right now is that I took the car out one afternoon when the temperature was over 100 degrees and when I pulled into the garage and shut the engine off it puked some water onto the floor. The temp gauge was showing around 250 degrees at that point. I already have the lower shroud on my radiator and I am making some horn opening covers today. I will also look at blocking off the area below the radiator. I have read all of the articles that people have referred to and I believe I have an airflow problem at low speeds. So I was just looking for pusher fan recommendations at this point. The best advice is to probably not drive in 100+ degree weather. Thanks, Joe Brown On Wed, Jul 19, 2023 at 8:33?AM LARRY PAULICK via Tigers wrote: I made a custom lower fan shroud, as one does not exist for the stock tiger, fan shroud. I did smoke test with the car at idle and the air comes through the radiator down towards the ground and circles back through the radiator again. So essentially you're just recycling hot air from your own radiator. It works. On Jul 19, 2023, at 2:03 AM, Owain Lloyd wrote: I think michael hit the nail on the head. first need to know is it overheating when stationary / moving slowly or at speed? a pusher fan will only help at very low speed or when stopped. and spal is the go to brand. still need the horn holes and gap between cross member and rad blocked. cardboard and zip ties does the trick quickly and can be replaced with a more permanent solution later if you want. also need a fan shroud. personally i've never needed the electric pusher fan because i have a small 13" flex fan on the water pump pulley. that creates enough pull through the radiator at idle. if its overheating at more than 30/40mph then its another problem entirely and there are a variety of other things to check. in my case its fuel boiling in the carb under certain conditions (slowing down after running fast in really high ambient temps above a particular altitude) rather than coolant temp which is the problem. there are a bunch of things i could do there, most importantly a carb heat shield, but i've only suffered from it once. one thing i've found very useful for debugging cooling issues in the tiger over the years is having a glass gano filter in the rad top hose. at least you can see how the coolant is circulating which helps with thermostat or water pump issues and if you're used to how it should look, even how blocked the radiator is. On Wed, Jul 19, 2023 at 7:41?AM Jim B via Tigers wrote: I?ve been reading about cooling issues with tigers for more that a decade (much less than some reading this) blocking horn holes, pusher fans, and shrouds etc etc. Entire studies have been done on this issue. Just check STOA, CAT or any club site. All good reads! I think the first place to start is knowing what the actual engine team really is. We all know that the original temp guage can be off. The other thing is: as a dyed in the wool ford guy, 185 degrees is the optimal engine temp. But, Ford engines can get to 195-200 degrees easily and that is not necessarily a bad thing. Yes, I put a pusher in mine only because I had one. I?m not really sure is does anything. My original guage can show 225-230 on a hot day (humidity plays a bitg role) but never has pucked out fluid. The design of the should is an issue. It lets hot air from the engine compartment to get under the radiator. Many, many, ?fixes? that can be done. However, on a hot low humidity day.. well good luck. JMO On Jul 18, 2023, at 8:40 PM, Allan Ballard wrote: The article includes several suggestions. One of them is to seal the missing section of the stock fan shroud at the bottom. A list member offered a piece he fabricated. I obtained one and here are a couple of pictures. I hope to fit it later this year. Even a few degrees of cooling will be worth the effort. Allan Ballard Mk1a Tiger Sent from my iPhone On Jul 18, 2023, at 10:57 PM, Jay Laifman wrote: Have you looked at this cooling suggestions? http://tigersunited.com/techtips/SteveLaifmanValance/pt-SteveLaifmanValance1.asp It works great in Southern California heat. On Tue, Jul 18, 2023 at 3:42?PM Joe Brown wrote: My Tiger can't keep up with this 100 degree weather in Texas. I've read through the article by Tiger Tom and Chuck King and I will make some of the suggested modifications. They listed two different pusher electric fans in the article but both of them are no longer available. So, has anybody recently installed a pusher fan? If so, what part numbers? Thanks, Joe Brown _______________________________________________ tigers at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/jay.laifman at gmail.com _______________________________________________ tigers at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/aballard at ix.netcom.com _______________________________________________ tigers at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/jbsyv at yahoo.com _______________________________________________ tigers at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/owain.lloyd at gmail.com _______________________________________________ tigers at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/lpaulick1 at verizon.net _______________________________________________ tigers at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/jbbrown1980 at gmail.com _______________________________________________ Tigers mailing list Tigers at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive _______________________________________________ tigers at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/atwittsend at verizon.net _______________________________________________ tigers at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/coolvt at aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From garywinblad at comcast.net Thu Jul 20 21:11:34 2023 From: garywinblad at comcast.net (GARY WINBLAD) Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2023 23:11:34 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Tigers] Tigers Digest, Vol 16, Issue 143 In-Reply-To: References: <1735890384.1628892.1689864429073@mail.yahoo.com> <9c1dbc06-8149-cc45-c8f9-0473d7f12b98@verizon.net> <1748035535.3021761.1689876770577@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <375109430.668858.1689909094668@connect.xfinity.com> Wow Lynn! 565HP AND AC, wow. Tell us more about your AC setup. TIA, Gary > On 07/20/2023 2:36 PM PDT Cars via Tigers wrote: > > > > With a proper full shroud it would work well. Probably be enough with Horn block offs. > > > > I am running a 347 stroker, 565 ish HP and full air conditioning and never get over 185-195 degrees with A/C in 100 degree heat. Can do it all day. > > > > Lynn > > > > From: Tigers On Behalf Of M Lafayette via Tigers > Sent: Thursday, July 20, 2023 12:13 PM > To: atwittsend at verizon.net; tigers at autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tigers Digest, Vol 16, Issue 143 > > > > In speaking to a rep. from a fan company years ago, he mentioned that a "puller" elect. fan would cool either 2 or 3 times (can't remember the number) as well as a "pusher" elect. fan. Makes sense since modern cars seems to use puller elctric's. Has anyone tried just one good elect. puller on a Tiger? > > Mark > > > In a message dated 7/20/2023 1:58:29 PM Eastern Daylight Time, tigers at autox.team.net mailto:tigers at autox.team.net writes: > > > > > > > As I was reading your "journey" when you got to the Flex-a-Lite fan (initial item #6) I thought it might be suspect. Most people seem to have success with the Maverick fan, the Volvo fan or a particular Derale fan. I can see where a pusher fan might impede airflow of a mechanical puller fan but not the other way where a puller fan impedes the flow of a pusher fan. That said given the "Flex" aspect of the Flex-a-Lite fan I wonder if it creates a "wall of wind" and was causing the overheating issue. Without smoke to see the flow of air movement I'm always baffled by things that blow over - and those that don't, leaves that deposit in one area of the yard - and not another. So, whatever the flex fan was doing it seems germane to the itself as others have not had the same issue with the recommended fans and a pusher fan. I won't ask if the fan was installed backwards (you seen way smarter than that) but does the possibility exist that the fan design was for counter rotation? With serpentine belts in cars these days the rotation of the water pump is often opposite of earlier engines of the same design. The good news is that you found a solution to your problem. Enjoy the ride. > > > > On 7/20/2023 7:47 AM, Joel Martin via Tigers wrote: > > > > > > > > Tiger Running hot ? Shotgun Approach after time of trying baby steps. > > > > > > After about a year of struggling with car running hot at idle with the hood down, Hot to me is 195 degrees and above. I took drastic steps. I have been driving the car during the last year only on back roads with not much chance of traffic lights and traffic. I live in rural NC outside of Pinehurst. > > > > > > Bloody yahoo mail formatting ruined numbering copied from MS Word, so please ignore. > > > > > > 1. Purchased and installed Sunbeam Specialties (SS) gloss black radiator overflow tank, missing from car. > > > > > > 2. Purchased and installed overflow tank straps from Alexander Washick alw6464 at gmail.com mailto:alw6464 at gmail.com which are powder coated, missing from car. > > > > > > 1. Purchased and installed undersize water pump pulley from Robert Straghan mailto:rgstraghan at yahoo.ca scuffed, primed and painted semi gloss black > > > 2. Purchased and installed horn hole block plates from Don Lutjen mailto:dlutjen55 at gmail.com scuffed, primed and painted semi gloss black. > > > 3. Purchased and installed new taller custom aluminum cross flow side tank radiator from Griffin Radiator. > > > 4. Purchased and installed new Flow Kooler water pump BRA-1680 painted Ford dark blue to match engine replacing SS water pump, pressed hub to line up. > > > 5. Modified the mechanical fan spacer so that front of fan is 1? from radiator. > > > 6. Mechanical fan remains Flex-a-Lite 14? nylon 6 blade fan. > > > 7. Purchased and installed new SS lower radiator and overflow to radiator hoses. > > > 8. New top radiator hose from local source, as SS hose would not fit taller radiator. > > > 9. New fan belt. > > > 10. Purchased and refurbished original Tiger fan shroud which would not fit as I did not want to cut a original shroud top mounting bracket to fit my taller radiator. Striped, primed and painted used shroud semi gloss black ? sitting on shelf. > > > 11. Installed 160 degree thermostat from 180. Could not find 170 degree. If anyone has a part number and supplier for a 170-degree thermostat, please forward. > > > > > > So at this point I do not have a fan shroud ? unless make up a custom. Other changes could make is front air dam and block front cross member to bottom of radiator spacing but for now I am going to see how things play out this summer. > > > > > > Ok after all the above I was still not satisfied with watching the temperature gauge increase while at idle or in stop and go traffic. Goal was to keep the temperature at ALL times between 180 and 190 degrees whether driving or at idle. > > > > > > The following changes have been made since the above changes 1-13 after trial period of 6 months or so. > > > > > > The Flow Kooler water pump started leaking so I purchased the SS water pump and installed it and drove for a month or so. Install error on the Flow Kooler water pump gasket turned out to be the problem. The SS water pump actually raised idle temps 2-3 degrees so I would later reinstall the Flow Kooler with a new gasket. > > > > > > 1. Installed a couple of 12? electric pusher fans I had in the garage and wired a manual off/on switch under the dash with a relay. Not much help or change in idle temperature while at stoplights or stop\go traffic. > > > 2. Built and installed a custom fan shroud. Remember I have an oversize Griffin radiator. This change resulted in idle temp. drop by maybe 2-3 degrees. Goal not achieve at this point but getting better. > > > 3. I then discussed issue with Flex-a-lite technical services hot line (multiple times) regarding their electric pusher fan line. > > > 1. The rule of thumb they recommend: Electric fans of either the pusher or puller type should be that the electric fan should cover 70% of the radiator surface. Mine came out to 69.5% coverage. > > > 2. Small block V-8 engines recommendation is 3,000 CFM. > > > 3. Flex - a- Lite had only 1 fan that met these specifications. > > > > > > > > > > > > FLX-105391 https://www.summitracing.com/parts/FLX-105391 > > > Electric Fan, Pusher, Flex-Wave, Single, 16 in. Diameter, 3,000 cfm, Black, 20 amps, > > > (Mfr. #: 239) > > > > > > 1. Also purchased temp probe and relay from Flex ? a Lite which is adjustable so you can set when the fan comes on. Off is 10 degrees from on temp and is NOT adjustable. > > > > > > > > > > > > FLX-121281 https://www.summitracing.com/parts/FLX-121281 > > > Fan Control, Compact, Adjustable, Thread-in Probe, Single Fan, Kit > > > (Mfr. #: 33095) > > > > > > e. Also purchased temperature probe adapter and installed in the upper radiator hose. > > > > > > > > > > > > FLX-107078 https://www.summitracing.com/parts/FLX-107078 > > > Radiator Hose Adapter, Aluminum, Fits 1 1/2 in. Hose, Has Two 1/4 in. NPT Ports, Includes One Plug, Each > > > (Mfr. #: 32082) > > > > > > The idea was to run the stock temp gauge probe into the adapter and keep my mechanical temperature gauge in place in the manifold to verify stock gauge was pretty accurate. The ? NPT port would not handle the stock probe and I could not find 1/4 probe with the correct ohms for the stock gauge, so manual temp gauge is still in place which I believe is accurate. > > > > > > f. Goal still not achieved > > > > > > 1. Flex - a - Lite then offered the following advice ? ?You typically only need one or the other. If you have a mechanical fan and just want extra cooling in stop and go traffic, I suggest you use a much smaller electric fan. But using both a mechanical and this bigger electric fan will probably cause some disruption.? The two smaller electric fans I used did not work in my case, so advice about smaller electric fan in conjunction with mechanical water pump fan did not work in my particular car. > > > > > > Plan ?. Reinstalled the Flow Kooler water pump with new gasket. > > > > > > 1. Removed the mechanical fan from the water pump and the 1? spacer. Finally success! Temp stays between 176 and 190 at ALL times regardless of ambient temperature and traffic conditions. So, in my case, the mechanical fan in conjunction with the electric fan was causing air flow disruption. > > > 2. The temp at speed above 35 mph, the car runs around 176 degrees with 160 degree thermostat in temps 90 degrees and less. About 183 in temperatures above 90, so not a issue. I might try out the 180 degree thermostat at some point, 170 if I could find one might be optimum for my car. The only down side for me is the electric fan is noisy when running and volts on volt gauge drops around ? - ?- volt when the fan comes on.. The battery volts dropping are due to fan drawing 20 amps. This has not been a issue with lights on or off. I have a alternator and not the generator so with generator cars, this might be an issue. Now I cannot hear the electric fan at all inside the car but outside, it is noisy when running. Headers, 2.25" exhaust pipes with Flow Master series 40 mufflers. I wonder why I cannot hear fan running. > > > > > > So you see I have tried almost all recommended suggestions except lower shroud addition and air dam to direct airflow. > > > > > > Every car reacts differently to changes and you have to keep trying different approaches that might work for your car and temperature\humidity of the area you reside. > > > > > > What changes I have made to me that had the biggest result and what would I try again in what order to minimize cost, effort and work involved. > > > > > > Yahoo formatting again. > > > > > > Test temp gauge and sender to ensure reading properly. > > > > > > 1. Ensure radiator in good working order. > > > 2. Change thermostat from 180 to 170 then 160. > > > 3. Install horn block off plates, minimal cost and about 1 hour to install. > > > 4. Fan shroud if you do not have one, 2-3 degrees improvement in my case, custom made. Possible making of the lower portion of the shroud as well, which I have not done. > > > 5. Undersize water pump pulley and at same time, try a different mechanical fan and ensure fan is 1? from radiator. > > > 6. Flow Kooler water pump BRA-1680, 2-3 degrees improvement in my case > > > 7. New Griffin radiator. They sell a package for the Tiger with radiator, electric fan and shroud. Remember my radiator is a custom oversize radiator install by previous owner and the stock Griffin radiator or package would not work in my case but I have installed a new custom Griffin radiator. > > > 8. Remove mechanical fan and install electric pusher fan that covers 70% of your radiator surface and moves 3,000 cfm?s as recommended for small block V-8 motors. Items 8 and 9 could be in reverse order and step 9 will not necessary if you purchase the Griffin Tiger package, your call. > > > > > > So you see I have tried almost all recommended suggestions except lower shroud addition and air dam to direct air flow and have finally met my goal of keeping the temperature between 180 to 190 degrees in all driving conditions. I hope my trials and findings will help you moving forward. Any questions, please ask. > > > > > > Regards > > > > > > Joel Martin > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wednesday, July 19, 2023 at 09:09:34 PM EDT, tigers-request at autox.team.net mailto:tigers-request at autox.team.net mailto:tigers-request at autox.team.net wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Send Tigers mailing list submissions to > > > > > > tigers at autox.team.net mailto:tigers at autox.team.net > > > > > > > > > > > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > > > > > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers > > > > > > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > > > > > > tigers-request at autox.team.net mailto:tigers-request at autox.team.net > > > > > > > > > > > > You can reach the person managing the list at > > > > > > tigers-owner at autox.team.net mailto:tigers-owner at autox.team.net > > > > > > > > > > > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > > > > > > than "Re: Contents of Tigers digest..." > > > > > > Today's Topics: > > > > > > 1. Re: Cooling Fan (LARRY PAULICK) > > > > > > Joe, I did an article for Tigers United, that describes with photographs what I did for the full fans shroud. > > > > > > > > > > > > TigersUnited.com http://tigersunited.com/techtips/PaulickShroud/pt-PaulickShroud.asp > > > > > > tigersunited.com http://tigersunited.com/techtips/PaulickShroud/pt-PaulickShroud.asp > > > > > > > > > > > > http://tigersunited.com/techtips/PaulickShroud/pt-PaulickShroud.asp > > > > > > BTW, Tigers United has a lot of great articles covering the variety of subjects. You might want to check it out. http://tigersunited.com/techtips/PaulickShroud/pt-PaulickShroud.asp > > > > > > http://tigersunited.com/techtips/PaulickShroud/pt-PaulickShroud.asp > > > > > > http://tigersunited.com/techtips/PaulickShroud/pt-PaulickShroud.asp > > > > > > http://tigersunited.com/techtips/PaulickShroud/pt-PaulickShroud.asp > > > > > > > > > > > On Jul 19, 2023, at 10:31 AM, Joe Brown wrote: http://tigersunited.com/techtips/PaulickShroud/pt-PaulickShroud.asp > > > > > > > > http://tigersunited.com/techtips/PaulickShroud/pt-PaulickShroud.asp > > > > > > > > Thanks for all of the replies. I have a mostly stock engine (with Edelbrock intake and 4 bbl.) and stock radiator. I have a temperature gauge mounted on the intake and the engine seems to run a little over 200 at idle but I haven't had any problems while driving the car. My problem right now is that I took the car out one afternoon when the temperature was over 100 degrees and when I pulled into the garage and shut the engine off it puked some water onto the floor. The temp gauge was showing around 250 degrees at that point. http://tigersunited.com/techtips/PaulickShroud/pt-PaulickShroud.asp > > > > > > > > http://tigersunited.com/techtips/PaulickShroud/pt-PaulickShroud.asp > > > > > > > > I already have the lower shroud on my radiator and I am making some horn opening covers today. I will also look at blocking off the area below the radiator. I have read all of the articles that people have referred to and I believe I have an airflow problem at low speeds. So I was just looking for pusher fan recommendations at this point. http://tigersunited.com/techtips/PaulickShroud/pt-PaulickShroud.asp > > > > > > > > http://tigersunited.com/techtips/PaulickShroud/pt-PaulickShroud.asp > > > > > > > > The best advice is to probably not drive in 100+ degree weather. http://tigersunited.com/techtips/PaulickShroud/pt-PaulickShroud.asp > > > > > > > > http://tigersunited.com/techtips/PaulickShroud/pt-PaulickShroud.asp > > > > > > > > Thanks, http://tigersunited.com/techtips/PaulickShroud/pt-PaulickShroud.asp > > > > > > > > Joe Brown http://tigersunited.com/techtips/PaulickShroud/pt-PaulickShroud.asp > > > > > > > > http://tigersunited.com/techtips/PaulickShroud/pt-PaulickShroud.asp > > > > > > > > On Wed, Jul 19, 2023 at 8:33?AM LARRY PAULICK via Tigers wrote: http://tigersunited.com/techtips/PaulickShroud/pt-PaulickShroud.asp > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I made a custom lower fan shroud, as one does not exist for the stock tiger, fan shroud. I did smoke test with the car at idle and the air comes through the radiator down towards the ground and circles back through the radiator again. So essentially you're just recycling hot air from your own radiator. It works. http://tigersunited.com/techtips/PaulickShroud/pt-PaulickShroud.asp > > > > > > > > > > http://tigersunited.com/techtips/PaulickShroud/pt-PaulickShroud.asp > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Jul 19, 2023, at 2:03 AM, Owain Lloyd wrote: http://tigersunited.com/techtips/PaulickShroud/pt-PaulickShroud.asp > > > > > > > > > > > > http://tigersunited.com/techtips/PaulickShroud/pt-PaulickShroud.asp > > > > > > > > > > > > I think michael hit the nail on the head. first need to know is it overheating when stationary / moving slowly or at speed? http://tigersunited.com/techtips/PaulickShroud/pt-PaulickShroud.asp > > > > > > > > > > > > http://tigersunited.com/techtips/PaulickShroud/pt-PaulickShroud.asp > > > > > > > > > > > > a pusher fan will only help at very low speed or when stopped. and spal is the go to brand. still need the horn holes and gap between cross member and rad blocked. cardboard and zip ties does the trick quickly and can be replaced with a more permanent solution later if you want. also need a fan shroud. http://tigersunited.com/techtips/PaulickShroud/pt-PaulickShroud.asp > > > > > > > > > > > > http://tigersunited.com/techtips/PaulickShroud/pt-PaulickShroud.asp > > > > > > > > > > > > personally i've never needed the electric pusher fan because i have a small 13" flex fan on the water pump pulley. that creates enough pull through the radiator at idle. http://tigersunited.com/techtips/PaulickShroud/pt-PaulickShroud.asp > > > > > > > > > > > > http://tigersunited.com/techtips/PaulickShroud/pt-PaulickShroud.asp > > > > > > > > > > > > if its overheating at more than 30/40mph then its another problem entirely and there are a variety of other things to check. http://tigersunited.com/techtips/PaulickShroud/pt-PaulickShroud.asp > > > > > > > > > > > > http://tigersunited.com/techtips/PaulickShroud/pt-PaulickShroud.asp > > > > > > > > > > > > in my case its fuel boiling in the carb under certain conditions (slowing down after running fast in really high ambient temps above a particular altitude) rather than coolant temp which is the problem. there are a bunch of things i could do there, most importantly a carb heat shield, but i've only suffered from it once. http://tigersunited.com/techtips/PaulickShroud/pt-PaulickShroud.asp > > > > > > > > > > > > http://tigersunited.com/techtips/PaulickShroud/pt-PaulickShroud.asp > > > > > > > > > > > > one thing i've found very useful for debugging cooling issues in the tiger over the years is having a glass gano filter in the rad top hose. at least you can see how the coolant is circulating which helps with thermostat or water pump issues and if you're used to how it should look, even how blocked the radiator is. http://tigersunited.com/techtips/PaulickShroud/pt-PaulickShroud.asp > > > > > > > > > > > > http://tigersunited.com/techtips/PaulickShroud/pt-PaulickShroud.asp > > > > > > > > > > > > http://tigersunited.com/techtips/PaulickShroud/pt-PaulickShroud.asp > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Jul 19, 2023 at 7:41?AM Jim B via Tigers wrote: http://tigersunited.com/techtips/PaulickShroud/pt-PaulickShroud.asp > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I?ve been reading about cooling issues with tigers for more that a decade (much less than some reading this) blocking horn holes, pusher fans, and shrouds etc etc. Entire studies have been done on this issue. Just check STOA, CAT or any club site. All good reads! I think the first place to start is knowing what the actual engine team really is. We all know that the original temp guage can be off. The other thing is: as a dyed in the wool ford guy, 185 degrees is the optimal engine temp. But, Ford engines can get to 195-200 degrees easily and that is not necessarily a bad thing. Yes, I put a pusher in mine only because I had one. I?m not really sure is does anything. My original guage can show 225-230 on a hot day (humidity plays a bitg role) but never has pucked out fluid. The design of the should is an issue. It lets hot air from the engine compartment to get under the radiator. Many, many, ?fixes? that can be done. However, on a hot low humidity day.. well good luck. JMO http://tigersunited.com/techtips/PaulickShroud/pt-PaulickShroud.asp > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://tigersunited.com/techtips/PaulickShroud/pt-PaulickShroud.asp > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Jul 18, 2023, at 8:40 PM, Allan Ballard wrote: http://tigersunited.com/techtips/PaulickShroud/pt-PaulickShroud.asp > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://tigersunited.com/techtips/PaulickShroud/pt-PaulickShroud.asp > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The article includes several suggestions. http://tigersunited.com/techtips/PaulickShroud/pt-PaulickShroud.asp > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://tigersunited.com/techtips/PaulickShroud/pt-PaulickShroud.asp > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > One of them is to seal the missing section of the stock fan shroud at the bottom. http://tigersunited.com/techtips/PaulickShroud/pt-PaulickShroud.asp > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://tigersunited.com/techtips/PaulickShroud/pt-PaulickShroud.asp > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A list member offered a piece he fabricated. http://tigersunited.com/techtips/PaulickShroud/pt-PaulickShroud.asp > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://tigersunited.com/techtips/PaulickShroud/pt-PaulickShroud.asp > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I obtained one and here are a couple of pictures. I hope to fit it later this year. http://tigersunited.com/techtips/PaulickShroud/pt-PaulickShroud.asp > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://tigersunited.com/techtips/PaulickShroud/pt-PaulickShroud.asp > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Even a few degrees of cooling will be worth the effort. http://tigersunited.com/techtips/PaulickShroud/pt-PaulickShroud.asp > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://tigersunited.com/techtips/PaulickShroud/pt-PaulickShroud.asp > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Allan Ballard http://tigersunited.com/techtips/PaulickShroud/pt-PaulickShroud.asp > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mk1a Tiger http://tigersunited.com/techtips/PaulickShroud/pt-PaulickShroud.asp > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://tigersunited.com/techtips/PaulickShroud/pt-PaulickShroud.asp > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://tigersunited.com/techtips/PaulickShroud/pt-PaulickShroud.asp > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sent from my iPhone http://tigersunited.com/techtips/PaulickShroud/pt-PaulickShroud.asp > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://tigersunited.com/techtips/PaulickShroud/pt-PaulickShroud.asp > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Jul 18, 2023, at 10:57 PM, Jay Laifman wrote: http://tigersunited.com/techtips/PaulickShroud/pt-PaulickShroud.asp > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Have you looked at this cooling suggestions? http://tigersunited.com/techtips/SteveLaifmanValance/pt-SteveLaifmanValance1.asp http://tigersunited.com/techtips/PaulickShroud/pt-PaulickShroud.asp > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://tigersunited.com/techtips/PaulickShroud/pt-PaulickShroud.asp > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It works great in Southern California heat. http://tigersunited.com/techtips/PaulickShroud/pt-PaulickShroud.asp > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://tigersunited.com/techtips/PaulickShroud/pt-PaulickShroud.asp > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Jul 18, 2023 at 3:42?PM Joe Brown wrote: http://tigersunited.com/techtips/PaulickShroud/pt-PaulickShroud.asp > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My Tiger can't keep up with this 100 degree weather in Texas. I've read through the article by Tiger Tom and Chuck King and I will make some of the suggested modifications. They listed two different pusher electric fans in the article but both of them are no longer available. http://tigersunited.com/techtips/PaulickShroud/pt-PaulickShroud.asp > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://tigersunited.com/techtips/PaulickShroud/pt-PaulickShroud.asp > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So, has anybody recently installed a pusher fan? If so, what part numbers? http://tigersunited.com/techtips/PaulickShroud/pt-PaulickShroud.asp > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://tigersunited.com/techtips/PaulickShroud/pt-PaulickShroud.asp > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, http://tigersunited.com/techtips/PaulickShroud/pt-PaulickShroud.asp > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Joe Brown http://tigersunited.com/techtips/PaulickShroud/pt-PaulickShroud.asp > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > tigers at autox.team.net > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > > > > > > > > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/jay.laifman at gmail.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://tigersunited.com/techtips/PaulickShroud/pt-PaulickShroud.asp > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > tigers at autox.team.net > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > > > > > > > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/aballard at ix.netcom.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://tigersunited.com/techtips/PaulickShroud/pt-PaulickShroud.asp > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > tigers at autox.team.net > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > > > > > > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/jbsyv at yahoo.com http://tigersunited.com/techtips/PaulickShroud/pt-PaulickShroud.asp > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > tigers at autox.team.net > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > > > > > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/owain.lloyd at gmail.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://tigersunited.com/techtips/PaulickShroud/pt-PaulickShroud.asp > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > > > > > > tigers at autox.team.net > > > > > > > > > > > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > > > > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive > > > > > > > > > > > > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/lpaulick1 at verizon.net 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> > > > > _______________________________________________ http://tigersunited.com/techtips/PaulickShroud/pt-PaulickShroud.asp > > > > > > http://tigersunited.com/techtips/PaulickShroud/pt-PaulickShroud.asp > > > > > > tigers at autox.team.net http://tigersunited.com/techtips/PaulickShroud/pt-PaulickShroud.asp > > > > > > http://tigersunited.com/techtips/PaulickShroud/pt-PaulickShroud.asp > > > > > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html http://tigersunited.com/techtips/PaulickShroud/pt-PaulickShroud.asp > > > > > > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive http://tigersunited.com/techtips/PaulickShroud/pt-PaulickShroud.asp > > > > > > http://tigersunited.com/techtips/PaulickShroud/pt-PaulickShroud.asp > > > > > > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/atwittsend at verizon.net http://tigersunited.com/techtips/PaulickShroud/pt-PaulickShroud.asp > > > > > > http://tigersunited.com/techtips/PaulickShroud/pt-PaulickShroud.asp > > > > > > http://tigersunited.com/techtips/PaulickShroud/pt-PaulickShroud.asp > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > tigers at autox.team.net > > > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive > > > > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/coolvt at aol.com > > > > http://tigersunited.com/techtips/PaulickShroud/pt-PaulickShroud.asp > > > _______________________________________________ > > tigers at autox.team.net > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/garywinblad at comcast.net > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From owain.lloyd at gmail.com Fri Jul 21 02:11:07 2023 From: owain.lloyd at gmail.com (Owain Lloyd) Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2023 10:11:07 +0200 Subject: [Tigers] Tigers Digest, Vol 16, Issue 143 In-Reply-To: <61B7D3BC-2AC8-4D5E-BBDA-667ED039454F@wt-inc.com> References: <1735890384.1628892.1689864429073@mail.yahoo.com> <9c1dbc06-8149-cc45-c8f9-0473d7f12b98@verizon.net> <1748035535.3021761.1689876770577@mail.yahoo.com> <1907197432.3176268.1689894658364@mail.yahoo.com> <61B7D3BC-2AC8-4D5E-BBDA-667ED039454F@wt-inc.com> Message-ID: agreed about the brass. i ran my tiger for years with the brass rad with no cooling issues and about 350hp / 7000rpm engine at the time. i repaired the rad myself many times with solder but eventually it just seems to be too old and fatigued and kept springing leaks in different places. I put an aluminium rad in with the new 500hp engine and that lasted less than 1000 miles before it sprung a leak in the middle and needed to be trashed and replaced. i have about another 1000 miles on the new one - no issues yet. i don't think it needs much from the radiator as long as the coolant is flowing ok. all the issues are about controlling airflow and after that heat soak. i never run much pressure in the cooling system as i don't use water. On Fri, Jul 21, 2023 at 10:00?AM Cars via Tigers wrote: > Fluidyne radiator and the fan came with the front runner system. Electric. > Ran by the engine management system. However the most important part is > that it is fitted and mounted into a custom FULL shroud > > However my first tiger 465 hp stroked 331 had a flex fan with a Ron Davis > radiator. Everything else stock. I made a new shroud that was complete and > fit well. No problem with heat at all. LAT hood with functioning rear > vents. The hood needs to be modified to make the vents functional. > > Just did one for a customer. Warmed up 289 stock radiator tanks but the > rest modified by Tom Hall. Complete shroud. Ran as cool as can be. > > The key, in my opinion, is the shroud. Until that is addressed (and horn > block offs). Everything else is guess and prayer > > Studies have show. That the thermal efficiency/weight advantages of > aluminum are marginal. Basically brass is just as good. Aluminum is flashy. > But you will struggle getting it repaired. They are pretty much disposable. > In many instances the end tanks are epoxied on. > > Having said that, I have aluminum in every car but my my mini, model A and > mustang. > > My 2 cents > Lynn > > Sent from my mobile device > > On Jul 20, 2023, at 5:11 PM, M Lafayette wrote: > > ? > Lynn, Stock radiator? And, what fan? > > In a message dated 7/20/2023 5:37:00 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > cars at wt-inc.com writes: > > > With a proper full shroud it would work well. Probably be enough with > Horn block offs. > > > > I am running a 347 stroker, 565 ish HP and full air conditioning and never > get over 185-195 degrees with A/C in 100 degree heat. Can do it all day. > > > > Lynn > > > > *From:* Tigers *On Behalf Of *M Lafayette > via Tigers > *Sent:* Thursday, July 20, 2023 12:13 PM > *To:* atwittsend at verizon.net; tigers at autox.team.net > *Subject:* Re: [Tigers] Tigers Digest, Vol 16, Issue 143 > > > > *In speaking to a rep. from a fan company years ago, he mentioned that a > "puller" elect. fan would cool either 2 or 3 times (can't remember the > number) as well as a "pusher" elect. fan. Makes sense since modern cars > seems to use puller elctric's. Has anyone tried just one good elect. > puller on a Tiger?* > > *Mark* > > > In a message dated 7/20/2023 1:58:29 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > tigers at autox.team.net writes: > > > > As I was reading your "journey" when you got to the Flex-a-Lite fan > (initial item #6) I thought it might be suspect. Most people seem to have > success with the Maverick fan, the Volvo fan or a particular Derale fan. I > can see where a pusher fan might impede airflow of a mechanical puller fan > but not the other way where a puller fan impedes the flow of a pusher fan. > That said given the "Flex" aspect of the Flex-a-Lite fan I wonder if it > creates a "wall of wind" and was causing the overheating issue. Without > smoke to see the flow of air movement I'm always baffled by things that > blow over - and those that don't, leaves that deposit in one area of the > yard - and not another. So, whatever the flex fan was doing it seems > germane to the itself as others have not had the same issue with the > recommended fans and a pusher fan. I won't ask if the fan was installed > backwards (you seen way smarter than that) but does the possibility exist > that the fan design was for counter rotation? With serpentine belts in cars > these days the rotation of the water pump is often opposite of earlier > engines of the same design. The good news is that you found a solution to > your problem. Enjoy the ride. > > On 7/20/2023 7:47 AM, Joel Martin via Tigers wrote: > > Tiger Running hot ? Shotgun Approach after time of trying baby steps. > > After about a year of struggling with car running hot at idle with the > hood down, Hot to me is 195 degrees and above. I took drastic steps. I > have been driving the car during the last year only on back roads with not > much chance of traffic lights and traffic. I live in rural NC outside of > Pinehurst. > > Bloody yahoo mail formatting ruined numbering copied from MS Word, > so please ignore. > > 1. Purchased and installed Sunbeam Specialties (SS) gloss black > radiator overflow tank, missing from car. > > 2. Purchased and installed overflow tank straps from Alexander > Washick alw6464 at gmail.com which are powder coated, missing from car. > > 1. Purchased and installed undersize water pump pulley from Robert > Straghan scuffed, primed > and painted semi gloss black > 2. Purchased and installed horn hole block plates from Don Lutjen > scuffed, primed and > painted semi gloss black. > 3. Purchased and installed new taller custom aluminum cross flow side > tank radiator from Griffin Radiator. > 4. Purchased and installed new Flow Kooler water pump BRA-1680 painted > Ford dark blue to match engine replacing SS water pump, pressed hub to line > up. > 5. Modified the mechanical fan spacer so that front of fan is 1? from > radiator. > 6. Mechanical fan remains Flex-a-Lite 14? nylon 6 blade fan. > 7. Purchased and installed new SS lower radiator and overflow to > radiator hoses. > 8. New top radiator hose from local source, as SS hose would not fit > taller radiator. > 9. New fan belt. > 10. Purchased and refurbished original Tiger fan shroud which would > not fit as I did not want to cut a original shroud top mounting bracket to > fit my taller radiator. Striped, primed and painted used shroud semi gloss > black ? sitting on shelf. > 11. Installed 160 degree thermostat from 180. Could not find 170 > degree. If anyone has a part number and supplier for a 170-degree > thermostat, please forward. > > So at this point I do not have a fan shroud ? unless make up a custom. > Other changes could make is front air dam and block front cross member to > bottom of radiator spacing but for now I am going to see how things play > out this summer. > > Ok after all the above I was still not satisfied with watching the > temperature gauge increase while at idle or in stop and go traffic. Goal > was to keep the temperature at ALL times between 180 and 190 degrees > whether driving or at idle. > > The following changes have been made since the above changes 1-13 after > trial period of 6 months or so. > > The Flow Kooler water pump started leaking so I purchased the SS water > pump and installed it and drove for a month or so. Install error on the > Flow Kooler water pump gasket turned out to be the problem. The SS water > pump actually raised idle temps 2-3 degrees so I would later reinstall the > Flow Kooler with a new gasket. > > 1. Installed a couple of 12? electric pusher fans I had in the garage > and wired a manual off/on switch under the dash with a relay. Not much > help or change in idle temperature while at stoplights or stop\go traffic. > 2. Built and installed a custom fan shroud. Remember I have an > oversize Griffin radiator. This change resulted in idle temp. drop by > maybe 2-3 degrees. Goal not achieve at this point but getting better. > 3. I then discussed issue with Flex-a-lite technical services hot line > (multiple times) regarding their electric pusher fan line. > > > 1. The rule of thumb they recommend: Electric fans of either the > pusher or puller type should be that the electric fan should cover 70% of > the radiator surface. Mine came out to 69.5% coverage. > 2. Small block V-8 engines recommendation is 3,000 CFM. > 3. Flex - a- Lite had only 1 fan that met these specifications. > > > > *FLX-105391 * > Electric Fan, Pusher, Flex-Wave, Single, 16 in. Diameter, 3,000 cfm, > Black, 20 amps, > (Mfr. #: 239) > > 1. Also purchased temp probe and relay from Flex ? a Lite which is > adjustable so you can set when the fan comes on. Off is 10 degrees from on > temp and is NOT adjustable. > > > > *FLX-121281 * > Fan Control, Compact, Adjustable, Thread-in Probe, Single Fan, Kit > (Mfr. #: 33095) > > e. Also purchased temperature probe adapter and installed in > the upper radiator hose. > > > > *FLX-107078 * > Radiator Hose Adapter, Aluminum, Fits 1 1/2 in. Hose, Has Two 1/4 in. NPT > Ports, Includes One Plug, Each > (Mfr. #: 32082) > > The idea was to run the stock temp gauge probe into the adapter and > keep my mechanical temperature gauge in place in the manifold to verify > stock gauge was pretty accurate. The ? NPT port would not handle the stock > probe and I could not find 1/4 probe with the correct ohms for the stock > gauge, so manual temp gauge is still in place which I believe is accurate. > > f. Goal still not achieved > > 1. Flex - a - Lite then offered the following advice ? ?You typically > only need one or the other. If you have a mechanical fan and just want > extra cooling in stop and go traffic, I suggest you use a much smaller > electric fan. But using both a mechanical and this bigger electric fan will > probably cause some disruption.? The two smaller electric fans I used did > not work in my case, so advice about smaller electric fan in conjunction > with mechanical water pump fan did not work in my particular car. > > Plan ?. Reinstalled the Flow Kooler water pump with new gasket. > > 1. Removed the mechanical fan from the water pump and the 1? spacer. > Finally success! Temp stays between 176 and 190 at ALL times regardless of > ambient temperature and traffic conditions. So, in my case, the mechanical > fan in conjunction with the electric fan was causing air flow disruption. > 2. The temp at speed above 35 mph, the car runs around 176 degrees > with 160 degree thermostat in temps 90 degrees and less. About 183 in > temperatures above 90, so not a issue. I might try out the 180 degree > thermostat at some point, 170 if I could find one might be optimum for my > car. The only down side for me is the electric fan is noisy when running > and volts on volt gauge drops around ? - ?- volt when the fan comes on.. > The battery volts dropping are due to fan drawing 20 amps. This has not > been a issue with lights on or off. I have a alternator and not the > generator so with generator cars, this might be an issue. Now I cannot > hear the electric fan *at all* inside the car but outside, it is > noisy when running. Headers, 2.25" exhaust pipes with Flow Master series > 40 mufflers. I wonder why I cannot hear fan running. > > So you see I have tried almost all recommended suggestions except lower > shroud addition and air dam to direct airflow. > > Every car reacts differently to changes and you have to keep trying > different approaches that might work for your car and temperature\humidity > of the area you reside. > > What changes I have made to me that had the biggest result and what would > I try again in what order to minimize cost, effort and work involved. > > Yahoo formatting again. > > Test temp gauge and sender to ensure reading properly. > > 1. Ensure radiator in good working order. > 2. Change thermostat from 180 to 170 then 160. > 3. Install horn block off plates, minimal cost and about 1 hour to > install. > 4. Fan shroud if you do not have one, 2-3 degrees improvement in my > case, custom made. Possible making of the lower portion of the shroud as > well, which I have not done. > 5. Undersize water pump pulley and at same time, try a different > mechanical fan and ensure fan is 1? from radiator. > 6. Flow Kooler water pump BRA-1680, 2-3 degrees improvement in my case > 7. New Griffin radiator. They sell a package for the Tiger with > radiator, electric fan and shroud. Remember my radiator is a custom > oversize radiator install by previous owner and the stock Griffin radiator > or package would not work in my case but I have installed a new custom > Griffin radiator. > 8. Remove mechanical fan and install electric pusher fan that covers > 70% of your radiator surface *and *moves 3,000 cfm?s as recommended > for small block V-8 motors. Items 8 and 9 could be in reverse order and > step 9 will not necessary if you purchase the Griffin Tiger package, your > call. > > So you see I have tried almost all recommended suggestions except lower > shroud addition and air dam to direct air flow and have finally met my goal > of keeping the temperature between 180 to 190 degrees in all driving > conditions. I hope my trials and findings will help you moving forward. > Any questions, please ask. > > Regards > > Joel Martin > > > > On Wednesday, July 19, 2023 at 09:09:34 PM EDT, > tigers-request at autox.team.net > wrote: > > > > > > Send Tigers mailing list submissions to > > tigers at autox.team.net > > > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers > > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > > tigers-request at autox.team.net > > > > You can reach the person managing the list at > > tigers-owner at autox.team.net > > > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > > than "Re: Contents of Tigers digest..." > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Cooling Fan (LARRY PAULICK) > > Joe, I did an article for Tigers United, that describes with photographs > what I did for the full fans shroud. > > > > TigersUnited.com > > > tigersunited.com > > > > > > > BTW, Tigers United has a lot of great articles covering the variety of > subjects. You might want to check it out. > > > > > > > > > On Jul 19, 2023, at 10:31 AM, Joe Brown ** wrote: > > > > > Thanks for all of the replies. I have a mostly stock engine (with > Edelbrock intake and 4 bbl.) and stock radiator. I have a temperature > gauge mounted on the intake and the engine seems to run a little over 200 > at idle but I haven't had any problems while driving the car. My problem > right now is that I took the car out one afternoon when the temperature was > over 100 degrees and when I pulled into the garage and shut the engine off > it puked some water onto the floor. The temp gauge was showing around 250 > degrees at that point. > > > > > I already have the lower shroud on my radiator and I am making some horn > opening covers today. I will also look at blocking off the area below the > radiator. I have read all of the articles that people have referred to and > I believe I have an airflow problem at low speeds. So I was just looking > for pusher fan recommendations at this point. > > > > > The best advice is to probably not drive in 100+ degree weather. > > > > > Thanks, > > > Joe Brown > > > > > On Wed, Jul 19, 2023 at 8:33?AM LARRY PAULICK via Tigers < > *tigers at autox.team.net*> wrote: > > > I made a custom lower fan shroud, as one does not exist for the stock > tiger, fan shroud. I did smoke test with the car at idle and the air comes > through the radiator down towards the ground and circles back through the > radiator again. So essentially you're just recycling hot air from your own > radiator. It works. > > > > > On Jul 19, 2023, at 2:03 AM, Owain Lloyd <*owain.lloyd at gmail.com*> wrote: > > > > > I think michael hit the nail on the head. first need to know is it > overheating when stationary / moving slowly or at speed? > > > > > a pusher fan will only help at very low speed or when stopped. and spal > is the go to brand. still need the horn holes and gap between cross > member and rad blocked. cardboard and zip ties does the trick quickly and > can be replaced with a more permanent solution later if you want. also > need a fan shroud. > > > > > personally i've never needed the electric pusher fan because i have a > small 13" flex fan on the water pump pulley. that creates enough pull > through the radiator at idle. > > > > > if its overheating at more than 30/40mph then its another problem entirely > and there are a variety of other things to check. > > > > > in my case its fuel boiling in the carb under certain conditions (slowing > down after running fast in really high ambient temps above a particular > altitude) rather than coolant temp which is the problem. there are a bunch > of things i could do there, most importantly a carb heat shield, but > i've only suffered from it once. > > > > > one thing i've found very useful for debugging cooling issues in the tiger > over the years is having a glass gano filter in the rad top hose. at least > you can see how the coolant is circulating which helps with thermostat or > water pump issues and if you're used to how it should look, even how > blocked the radiator is. > > > > > > > On Wed, Jul 19, 2023 at 7:41?AM Jim B via Tigers <*tigers at autox.team.net*> > wrote: > > > I?ve been reading about cooling issues with tigers for more that a decade > (much less than some reading this) blocking horn holes, pusher fans, and > shrouds etc etc. Entire studies have been done on this issue. Just check > STOA, CAT or any club site. All good reads! I think the first place to > start is knowing what the actual engine team really is. We all know that > the original temp guage can be off. The other thing is: as a dyed in the > wool ford guy, 185 degrees is the optimal engine temp. But, Ford engines > can get to 195-200 degrees easily and that is not necessarily a bad thing. > Yes, I put a pusher in mine only because I had one. I?m not really sure is > does anything. My original guage can show 225-230 on a hot day (humidity > plays a bitg role) but never has pucked out fluid. The design of the should > is an issue. It lets hot air from the engine compartment to get under the > radiator. Many, many, ?fixes? that can be done. However, on a hot low > humidity day.. well good luck. JMO > > > > > On Jul 18, 2023, at 8:40 PM, Allan Ballard <*aballard at ix.netcom.com*> > wrote: > > > > > The article includes several suggestions. > > > > > One of them is to seal the missing section of the stock fan shroud at the > bottom. > > > > > A list member offered a piece he fabricated. > > > > > I obtained one and here are a couple of pictures. I hope to fit it later > this year. > > > > > Even a few degrees of cooling will be worth the effort. > > > > > Allan Ballard > > > Mk1a Tiger > > > > > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > > > > On Jul 18, 2023, at 10:57 PM, Jay Laifman <*jay.laifman at gmail.com*> wrote: > > > Have you looked at this cooling suggestions? > *http://tigersunited.com/techtips/SteveLaifmanValance/pt-SteveLaifmanValance1.asp* > > > > > It works great in Southern California heat. > > > > > On Tue, Jul 18, 2023 at 3:42?PM Joe Brown <*jbbrown1980 at gmail.com*> wrote: > > > My Tiger can't keep up with this 100 degree weather in Texas. I've read > through the article by Tiger Tom and Chuck King and I will make some of the > suggested modifications. They listed two different pusher electric fans in > the article but both of them are no longer available. > > > > > So, has anybody recently installed a pusher fan? If so, what part numbers? > > > > > Thanks, > > > Joe Brown > > > _______________________________________________ > > *tigers at autox.team.net* > > Donate: *http://www.team.net/donate.html* > Archive: *http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers* > *http://autox.team.net/archive* > > Unsubscribe: > *http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/jay.laifman at gmail.com* > > > > _______________________________________________ > > *tigers at autox.team.net* > > Donate: *http://www.team.net/donate.html* > Archive: *http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers* > *http://autox.team.net/archive* > > Unsubscribe: > *http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/aballard at ix.netcom.com* > > > > _______________________________________________ > > *tigers at autox.team.net* > > Donate: *http://www.team.net/donate.html* > Archive: *http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers* > *http://autox.team.net/archive* > > Unsubscribe: > *http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/jbsyv at yahoo.com* > > > _______________________________________________ > > *tigers at autox.team.net* > > Donate: *http://www.team.net/donate.html* > Archive: *http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers* > *http://autox.team.net/archive* > > Unsubscribe: > *http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/owain.lloyd at gmail.com* > > > > _______________________________________________ > > *tigers at autox.team.net* > > Donate: *http://www.team.net/donate.html* > Archive: *http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers* > *http://autox.team.net/archive* > > Unsubscribe: > *http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/lpaulick1 at verizon.net* > > > _______________________________________________ > > *tigers at autox.team.net* > > Donate: *http://www.team.net/donate.html* > Archive: *http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers* > *http://autox.team.net/archive* > > Unsubscribe: > *http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/jbbrown1980 at gmail.com* > > > > _______________________________________________ > Tigers mailing list > *Tigers at autox.team.net* > *http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers* > > Donate: *http://www.team.net/donate.html* > Archive: *http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers* > *http://autox.team.net/archive* > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > *tigers at autox.team.net* > > > > Donate: *http://www.team.net/donate.html* > > Archive: *http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers* *http://autox.team.net/archive* > > > > Unsubscribe: *http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/atwittsend at verizon.net* > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > *tigers at autox.team.net* > > Donate: *http://www.team.net/donate.html* > Archive: *http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers* > *http://autox.team.net/archive* > > Unsubscribe: *http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/coolvt at aol.com* > > > > _______________________________________________ > > tigers at autox.team.net > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers > http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/owain.lloyd at gmail.com > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cars at wt-inc.com Fri Jul 21 11:53:05 2023 From: cars at wt-inc.com (Cars) Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2023 17:53:05 +0000 Subject: [Tigers] Tigers Digest, Vol 16, Issue 143 In-Reply-To: <375109430.668858.1689909094668@connect.xfinity.com> References: <1735890384.1628892.1689864429073@mail.yahoo.com> <9c1dbc06-8149-cc45-c8f9-0473d7f12b98@verizon.net> <1748035535.3021761.1689876770577@mail.yahoo.com> <375109430.668858.1689909094668@connect.xfinity.com> Message-ID: <40420F99-96C5-4557-88B6-260A00A6E486@wt-inc.com> Well first of all let me say that the original design, inspiration and installation on my car was done by Dale A. And it is very impressive. Not for the faint of heart or wallet. The system is a vintage air. But this literally touches every part of your build requiring the dash to be moved toward the driver. A new radiator core support built and moved forward. A dales front end to get the steering rack out of the way. A new dash with relocated ignition switch, smaller glove box, a/c controls ets. , etc. everywhere you look something is affected. Even all the leaks of air into the trunk need to be solved and the top needs to be well fitted. My brother took my car and copied it for an installation in his car. He made several really great improvements. Again, very invasive, and pretty dang expensive. It blows cold and keeps the occupants very comfortable. Even with the top down it keeps you pretty cool by blowing on your legs. Neither my brother or Dale say they will do another. It really needs to be done when the car is in bare steel. My brother has a parts list for those that think they can take it on. Lynn Sent from my mobile device On Jul 20, 2023, at 9:12 PM, GARY WINBLAD wrote: ? Wow Lynn! 565HP AND AC, wow. Tell us more about your AC setup. TIA, Gary On 07/20/2023 2:36 PM PDT Cars via Tigers wrote: With a proper full shroud it would work well. Probably be enough with Horn block offs. I am running a 347 stroker, 565 ish HP and full air conditioning and never get over 185-195 degrees with A/C in 100 degree heat. Can do it all day. Lynn From: Tigers On Behalf Of M Lafayette via Tigers Sent: Thursday, July 20, 2023 12:13 PM To: atwittsend at verizon.net; tigers at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tigers Digest, Vol 16, Issue 143 In speaking to a rep. from a fan company years ago, he mentioned that a "puller" elect. fan would cool either 2 or 3 times (can't remember the number) as well as a "pusher" elect. fan. Makes sense since modern cars seems to use puller elctric's. Has anyone tried just one good elect. puller on a Tiger? Mark In a message dated 7/20/2023 1:58:29 PM Eastern Daylight Time, tigers at autox.team.net writes: As I was reading your "journey" when you got to the Flex-a-Lite fan (initial item #6) I thought it might be suspect. Most people seem to have success with the Maverick fan, the Volvo fan or a particular Derale fan. I can see where a pusher fan might impede airflow of a mechanical puller fan but not the other way where a puller fan impedes the flow of a pusher fan. That said given the "Flex" aspect of the Flex-a-Lite fan I wonder if it creates a "wall of wind" and was causing the overheating issue. Without smoke to see the flow of air movement I'm always baffled by things that blow over - and those that don't, leaves that deposit in one area of the yard - and not another. So, whatever the flex fan was doing it seems germane to the itself as others have not had the same issue with the recommended fans and a pusher fan. I won't ask if the fan was installed backwards (you seen way smarter than that) but does the possibility exist that the fan design was for counter rotation? With serpentine belts in cars these days the rotation of the water pump is often opposite of earlier engines of the same design. The good news is that you found a solution to your problem. Enjoy the ride. On 7/20/2023 7:47 AM, Joel Martin via Tigers wrote: Tiger Running hot ? Shotgun Approach after time of trying baby steps. After about a year of struggling with car running hot at idle with the hood down, Hot to me is 195 degrees and above. I took drastic steps. I have been driving the car during the last year only on back roads with not much chance of traffic lights and traffic. I live in rural NC outside of Pinehurst. Bloody yahoo mail formatting ruined numbering copied from MS Word, so please ignore. 1. Purchased and installed Sunbeam Specialties (SS) gloss black radiator overflow tank, missing from car. 2. Purchased and installed overflow tank straps from Alexander Washick alw6464 at gmail.com which are powder coated, missing from car. 1. Purchased and installed undersize water pump pulley from Robert Straghan scuffed, primed and painted semi gloss black 2. Purchased and installed horn hole block plates from Don Lutjen scuffed, primed and painted semi gloss black. 3. Purchased and installed new taller custom aluminum cross flow side tank radiator from Griffin Radiator. 4. Purchased and installed new Flow Kooler water pump BRA-1680 painted Ford dark blue to match engine replacing SS water pump, pressed hub to line up. 5. Modified the mechanical fan spacer so that front of fan is 1? from radiator. 6. Mechanical fan remains Flex-a-Lite 14? nylon 6 blade fan. 7. Purchased and installed new SS lower radiator and overflow to radiator hoses. 8. New top radiator hose from local source, as SS hose would not fit taller radiator. 9. New fan belt. 10. Purchased and refurbished original Tiger fan shroud which would not fit as I did not want to cut a original shroud top mounting bracket to fit my taller radiator. Striped, primed and painted used shroud semi gloss black ? sitting on shelf. 11. Installed 160 degree thermostat from 180. Could not find 170 degree. If anyone has a part number and supplier for a 170-degree thermostat, please forward. So at this point I do not have a fan shroud ? unless make up a custom. Other changes could make is front air dam and block front cross member to bottom of radiator spacing but for now I am going to see how things play out this summer. Ok after all the above I was still not satisfied with watching the temperature gauge increase while at idle or in stop and go traffic. Goal was to keep the temperature at ALL times between 180 and 190 degrees whether driving or at idle. The following changes have been made since the above changes 1-13 after trial period of 6 months or so. The Flow Kooler water pump started leaking so I purchased the SS water pump and installed it and drove for a month or so. Install error on the Flow Kooler water pump gasket turned out to be the problem. The SS water pump actually raised idle temps 2-3 degrees so I would later reinstall the Flow Kooler with a new gasket. 1. Installed a couple of 12? electric pusher fans I had in the garage and wired a manual off/on switch under the dash with a relay. Not much help or change in idle temperature while at stoplights or stop\go traffic. 2. Built and installed a custom fan shroud. Remember I have an oversize Griffin radiator. This change resulted in idle temp. drop by maybe 2-3 degrees. Goal not achieve at this point but getting better. 3. I then discussed issue with Flex-a-lite technical services hot line (multiple times) regarding their electric pusher fan line. * The rule of thumb they recommend: Electric fans of either the pusher or puller type should be that the electric fan should cover 70% of the radiator surface. Mine came out to 69.5% coverage. * Small block V-8 engines recommendation is 3,000 CFM. * Flex - a- Lite had only 1 fan that met these specifications. FLX-105391 Electric Fan, Pusher, Flex-Wave, Single, 16 in. Diameter, 3,000 cfm, Black, 20 amps, (Mfr. #: 239) * Also purchased temp probe and relay from Flex ? a Lite which is adjustable so you can set when the fan comes on. Off is 10 degrees from on temp and is NOT adjustable. FLX-121281 Fan Control, Compact, Adjustable, Thread-in Probe, Single Fan, Kit (Mfr. #: 33095) e. Also purchased temperature probe adapter and installed in the upper radiator hose. FLX-107078 Radiator Hose Adapter, Aluminum, Fits 1 1/2 in. Hose, Has Two 1/4 in. NPT Ports, Includes One Plug, Each (Mfr. #: 32082) The idea was to run the stock temp gauge probe into the adapter and keep my mechanical temperature gauge in place in the manifold to verify stock gauge was pretty accurate. The ? NPT port would not handle the stock probe and I could not find 1/4 probe with the correct ohms for the stock gauge, so manual temp gauge is still in place which I believe is accurate. f. Goal still not achieved 1. Flex - a - Lite then offered the following advice ? ?You typically only need one or the other. If you have a mechanical fan and just want extra cooling in stop and go traffic, I suggest you use a much smaller electric fan. But using both a mechanical and this bigger electric fan will probably cause some disruption.? The two smaller electric fans I used did not work in my case, so advice about smaller electric fan in conjunction with mechanical water pump fan did not work in my particular car. Plan ?. Reinstalled the Flow Kooler water pump with new gasket. * Removed the mechanical fan from the water pump and the 1? spacer. Finally success! Temp stays between 176 and 190 at ALL times regardless of ambient temperature and traffic conditions. So, in my case, the mechanical fan in conjunction with the electric fan was causing air flow disruption. * The temp at speed above 35 mph, the car runs around 176 degrees with 160 degree thermostat in temps 90 degrees and less. About 183 in temperatures above 90, so not a issue. I might try out the 180 degree thermostat at some point, 170 if I could find one might be optimum for my car. The only down side for me is the electric fan is noisy when running and volts on volt gauge drops around ? - ?- volt when the fan comes on.. The battery volts dropping are due to fan drawing 20 amps. This has not been a issue with lights on or off. I have a alternator and not the generator so with generator cars, this might be an issue. Now I cannot hear the electric fan at all inside the car but outside, it is noisy when running. Headers, 2.25" exhaust pipes with Flow Master series 40 mufflers. I wonder why I cannot hear fan running. So you see I have tried almost all recommended suggestions except lower shroud addition and air dam to direct airflow. Every car reacts differently to changes and you have to keep trying different approaches that might work for your car and temperature\humidity of the area you reside. What changes I have made to me that had the biggest result and what would I try again in what order to minimize cost, effort and work involved. Yahoo formatting again. Test temp gauge and sender to ensure reading properly. 1. Ensure radiator in good working order. 2. Change thermostat from 180 to 170 then 160. 3. Install horn block off plates, minimal cost and about 1 hour to install. 4. Fan shroud if you do not have one, 2-3 degrees improvement in my case, custom made. Possible making of the lower portion of the shroud as well, which I have not done. 5. Undersize water pump pulley and at same time, try a different mechanical fan and ensure fan is 1? from radiator. 6. Flow Kooler water pump BRA-1680, 2-3 degrees improvement in my case 7. New Griffin radiator. They sell a package for the Tiger with radiator, electric fan and shroud. Remember my radiator is a custom oversize radiator install by previous owner and the stock Griffin radiator or package would not work in my case but I have installed a new custom Griffin radiator. 8. Remove mechanical fan and install electric pusher fan that covers 70% of your radiator surface and moves 3,000 cfm?s as recommended for small block V-8 motors. Items 8 and 9 could be in reverse order and step 9 will not necessary if you purchase the Griffin Tiger package, your call. So you see I have tried almost all recommended suggestions except lower shroud addition and air dam to direct air flow and have finally met my goal of keeping the temperature between 180 to 190 degrees in all driving conditions. I hope my trials and findings will help you moving forward. Any questions, please ask. Regards Joel Martin On Wednesday, July 19, 2023 at 09:09:34 PM EDT, tigers-request at autox.team.net wrote: Send Tigers mailing list submissions to tigers at autox.team.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to tigers-request at autox.team.net You can reach the person managing the list at tigers-owner at autox.team.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Tigers digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: Cooling Fan (LARRY PAULICK) Joe, I did an article for Tigers United, that describes with photographs what I did for the full fans shroud. TigersUnited.com tigersunited.com BTW, Tigers United has a lot of great articles covering the variety of subjects. You might want to check it out. On Jul 19, 2023, at 10:31 AM, Joe Brown wrote: Thanks for all of the replies. I have a mostly stock engine (with Edelbrock intake and 4 bbl.) and stock radiator. I have a temperature gauge mounted on the intake and the engine seems to run a little over 200 at idle but I haven't had any problems while driving the car. My problem right now is that I took the car out one afternoon when the temperature was over 100 degrees and when I pulled into the garage and shut the engine off it puked some water onto the floor. The temp gauge was showing around 250 degrees at that point. I already have the lower shroud on my radiator and I am making some horn opening covers today. I will also look at blocking off the area below the radiator. I have read all of the articles that people have referred to and I believe I have an airflow problem at low speeds. So I was just looking for pusher fan recommendations at this point. The best advice is to probably not drive in 100+ degree weather. Thanks, Joe Brown On Wed, Jul 19, 2023 at 8:33?AM LARRY PAULICK via Tigers wrote: I made a custom lower fan shroud, as one does not exist for the stock tiger, fan shroud. I did smoke test with the car at idle and the air comes through the radiator down towards the ground and circles back through the radiator again. So essentially you're just recycling hot air from your own radiator. It works. On Jul 19, 2023, at 2:03 AM, Owain Lloyd wrote: I think michael hit the nail on the head. first need to know is it overheating when stationary / moving slowly or at speed? a pusher fan will only help at very low speed or when stopped. and spal is the go to brand. still need the horn holes and gap between cross member and rad blocked. cardboard and zip ties does the trick quickly and can be replaced with a more permanent solution later if you want. also need a fan shroud. personally i've never needed the electric pusher fan because i have a small 13" flex fan on the water pump pulley. that creates enough pull through the radiator at idle. if its overheating at more than 30/40mph then its another problem entirely and there are a variety of other things to check. in my case its fuel boiling in the carb under certain conditions (slowing down after running fast in really high ambient temps above a particular altitude) rather than coolant temp which is the problem. there are a bunch of things i could do there, most importantly a carb heat shield, but i've only suffered from it once. one thing i've found very useful for debugging cooling issues in the tiger over the years is having a glass gano filter in the rad top hose. at least you can see how the coolant is circulating which helps with thermostat or water pump issues and if you're used to how it should look, even how blocked the radiator is. On Wed, Jul 19, 2023 at 7:41?AM Jim B via Tigers wrote: I?ve been reading about cooling issues with tigers for more that a decade (much less than some reading this) blocking horn holes, pusher fans, and shrouds etc etc. Entire studies have been done on this issue. Just check STOA, CAT or any club site. All good reads! I think the first place to start is knowing what the actual engine team really is. We all know that the original temp guage can be off. The other thing is: as a dyed in the wool ford guy, 185 degrees is the optimal engine temp. But, Ford engines can get to 195-200 degrees easily and that is not necessarily a bad thing. Yes, I put a pusher in mine only because I had one. I?m not really sure is does anything. My original guage can show 225-230 on a hot day (humidity plays a bitg role) but never has pucked out fluid. The design of the should is an issue. It lets hot air from the engine compartment to get under the radiator. Many, many, ?fixes? that can be done. However, on a hot low humidity day.. well good luck. JMO On Jul 18, 2023, at 8:40 PM, Allan Ballard wrote: The article includes several suggestions. One of them is to seal the missing section of the stock fan shroud at the bottom. A list member offered a piece he fabricated. I obtained one and here are a couple of pictures. I hope to fit it later this year. Even a few degrees of cooling will be worth the effort. Allan Ballard Mk1a Tiger Sent from my iPhone On Jul 18, 2023, at 10:57 PM, Jay Laifman wrote: Have you looked at this cooling suggestions? http://tigersunited.com/techtips/SteveLaifmanValance/pt-SteveLaifmanValance1.asp It works great in Southern California heat. On Tue, Jul 18, 2023 at 3:42?PM Joe Brown wrote: My Tiger can't keep up with this 100 degree weather in Texas. I've read through the article by Tiger Tom and Chuck King and I will make some of the suggested modifications. They listed two different pusher electric fans in the article but both of them are no longer available. So, has anybody recently installed a pusher fan? If so, what part numbers? Thanks, Joe Brown _______________________________________________ tigers at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/jay.laifman at gmail.com _______________________________________________ tigers at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/aballard at ix.netcom.com _______________________________________________ tigers at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/jbsyv at yahoo.com _______________________________________________ tigers at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/owain.lloyd at gmail.com _______________________________________________ tigers at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/lpaulick1 at verizon.net _______________________________________________ tigers at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/jbbrown1980 at gmail.com _______________________________________________ Tigers mailing list Tigers at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive _______________________________________________ tigers at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/atwittsend at verizon.net _______________________________________________ tigers at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/coolvt at aol.com _______________________________________________ tigers at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/garywinblad at comcast.net -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From garywinblad at comcast.net Fri Jul 21 12:06:23 2023 From: garywinblad at comcast.net (Gary) Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2023 11:06:23 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Tigers Digest, Vol 16, Issue 143 In-Reply-To: <40420F99-96C5-4557-88B6-260A00A6E486@wt-inc.com> References: <40420F99-96C5-4557-88B6-260A00A6E486@wt-inc.com> Message-ID: <22D74D29-98E4-4995-BF2B-CF76FA3EB1AD@comcast.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From aballard at ix.netcom.com Fri Jul 21 16:03:35 2023 From: aballard at ix.netcom.com (Allan Ballard) Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2023 18:03:35 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Radiator, Fan, Shroud In-Reply-To: References: <1735890384.1628892.1689864429073@mail.yahoo.com> <9c1dbc06-8149-cc45-c8f9-0473d7f12b98@verizon.net> <1748035535.3021761.1689876770577@mail.yahoo.com> <1907197432.3176268.1689894658364@mail.yahoo.com> <61B7D3BC-2AC8-4D5E-BBDA-667ED039454F@wt-inc.com> Message-ID: <0EF47D2B-02BE-4055-86F3-299A99969544@ix.netcom.com> Stock shroud amended to become a full circle shroud. I?ve misplaced the guy?s name who fabricated these but do remember that he?s a Canadian member. ?Allan Ballard Atlanta, GA ? ? > On Jul 21, 2023, at 4:11 AM, Owain Lloyd via Tigers wrote: > >> fan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: SHROULD2.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 866006 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_5492.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 475550 bytes Desc: not available URL: From owain.lloyd at gmail.com Fri Jul 21 16:17:36 2023 From: owain.lloyd at gmail.com (Owain Lloyd) Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2023 00:17:36 +0200 Subject: [Tigers] Tigers Digest, Vol 16, Issue 143 In-Reply-To: <40420F99-96C5-4557-88B6-260A00A6E486@wt-inc.com> References: <1735890384.1628892.1689864429073@mail.yahoo.com> <9c1dbc06-8149-cc45-c8f9-0473d7f12b98@verizon.net> <1748035535.3021761.1689876770577@mail.yahoo.com> <375109430.668858.1689909094668@connect.xfinity.com> <40420F99-96C5-4557-88B6-260A00A6E486@wt-inc.com> Message-ID: Wow! You must really like it cool! ? On Fri, 21 Jul 2023 at 22:03, Cars via Tigers wrote: > Well first of all let me say that the original design, inspiration and > installation on my car was done by Dale A. And it is very impressive. Not > for the faint of heart or wallet. The system is a vintage air. But this > literally touches every part of your build requiring the dash to be moved > toward the driver. A new radiator core support built and moved forward. A > dales front end to get the steering rack out of the way. A new dash with > relocated ignition switch, smaller glove box, a/c controls ets. , etc. > everywhere you look something is affected. Even all the leaks of air into > the trunk need to be solved and the top needs to be well fitted. > > My brother took my car and copied it for an installation in his car. He > made several really great improvements. Again, very invasive, and pretty > dang expensive. It blows cold and keeps the occupants very comfortable. > Even with the top down it keeps you pretty cool by blowing on your legs. > > Neither my brother or Dale say they will do another. It really needs to be > done when the car is in bare steel. > > My brother has a parts list for those that think they can take it on. > > Lynn > > Sent from my mobile device > > On Jul 20, 2023, at 9:12 PM, GARY WINBLAD wrote: > > ? > > Wow Lynn! 565HP AND AC, wow. > Tell us more about your AC setup. > TIA, > Gary > > > On 07/20/2023 2:36 PM PDT Cars via Tigers wrote: > > > > With a proper full shroud it would work well. Probably be enough with > Horn block offs. > > > > I am running a 347 stroker, 565 ish HP and full air conditioning and never > get over 185-195 degrees with A/C in 100 degree heat. Can do it all day. > > > > Lynn > > > > *From:* Tigers *On Behalf Of *M Lafayette > via Tigers > *Sent:* Thursday, July 20, 2023 12:13 PM > *To:* atwittsend at verizon.net; tigers at autox.team.net > *Subject:* Re: [Tigers] Tigers Digest, Vol 16, Issue 143 > > > > *In speaking to a rep. from a fan company years ago, he mentioned that a > "puller" elect. fan would cool either 2 or 3 times (can't remember the > number) as well as a "pusher" elect. fan. Makes sense since modern cars > seems to use puller elctric's. Has anyone tried just one good elect. > puller on a Tiger?* > > *Mark* > > > In a message dated 7/20/2023 1:58:29 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > tigers at autox.team.net writes: > > > > As I was reading your "journey" when you got to the Flex-a-Lite fan > (initial item #6) I thought it might be suspect. Most people seem to have > success with the Maverick fan, the Volvo fan or a particular Derale fan. I > can see where a pusher fan might impede airflow of a mechanical puller fan > but not the other way where a puller fan impedes the flow of a pusher fan. > That said given the "Flex" aspect of the Flex-a-Lite fan I wonder if it > creates a "wall of wind" and was causing the overheating issue. Without > smoke to see the flow of air movement I'm always baffled by things that > blow over - and those that don't, leaves that deposit in one area of the > yard - and not another. So, whatever the flex fan was doing it seems > germane to the itself as others have not had the same issue with the > recommended fans and a pusher fan. I won't ask if the fan was installed > backwards (you seen way smarter than that) but does the possibility exist > that the fan design was for counter rotation? With serpentine belts in cars > these days the rotation of the water pump is often opposite of earlier > engines of the same design. The good news is that you found a solution to > your problem. Enjoy the ride. > > On 7/20/2023 7:47 AM, Joel Martin via Tigers wrote: > > Tiger Running hot ? Shotgun Approach after time of trying baby steps. > > After about a year of struggling with car running hot at idle with the > hood down, Hot to me is 195 degrees and above. I took drastic steps. I > have been driving the car during the last year only on back roads with not > much chance of traffic lights and traffic. I live in rural NC outside of > Pinehurst. > > Bloody yahoo mail formatting ruined numbering copied from MS Word, > so please ignore. > > 1. Purchased and installed Sunbeam Specialties (SS) gloss black > radiator overflow tank, missing from car. > > 2. Purchased and installed overflow tank straps from Alexander > Washick alw6464 at gmail.com which are powder coated, missing from car. > > 1. Purchased and installed undersize water pump pulley from Robert > Straghan scuffed, primed > and painted semi gloss black > 2. Purchased and installed horn hole block plates from Don Lutjen > scuffed, primed and > painted semi gloss black. > 3. Purchased and installed new taller custom aluminum cross flow side > tank radiator from Griffin Radiator. > 4. Purchased and installed new Flow Kooler water pump BRA-1680 painted > Ford dark blue to match engine replacing SS water pump, pressed hub to line > up. > 5. Modified the mechanical fan spacer so that front of fan is 1? from > radiator. > 6. Mechanical fan remains Flex-a-Lite 14? nylon 6 blade fan. > 7. Purchased and installed new SS lower radiator and overflow to > radiator hoses. > 8. New top radiator hose from local source, as SS hose would not fit > taller radiator. > 9. New fan belt. > 10. Purchased and refurbished original Tiger fan shroud which would > not fit as I did not want to cut a original shroud top mounting bracket to > fit my taller radiator. Striped, primed and painted used shroud semi gloss > black ? sitting on shelf. > 11. Installed 160 degree thermostat from 180. Could not find 170 > degree. If anyone has a part number and supplier for a 170-degree > thermostat, please forward. > > So at this point I do not have a fan shroud ? unless make up a custom. > Other changes could make is front air dam and block front cross member to > bottom of radiator spacing but for now I am going to see how things play > out this summer. > > Ok after all the above I was still not satisfied with watching the > temperature gauge increase while at idle or in stop and go traffic. Goal > was to keep the temperature at ALL times between 180 and 190 degrees > whether driving or at idle. > > The following changes have been made since the above changes 1-13 after > trial period of 6 months or so. > > The Flow Kooler water pump started leaking so I purchased the SS water > pump and installed it and drove for a month or so. Install error on the > Flow Kooler water pump gasket turned out to be the problem. The SS water > pump actually raised idle temps 2-3 degrees so I would later reinstall the > Flow Kooler with a new gasket. > > 1. Installed a couple of 12? electric pusher fans I had in the garage > and wired a manual off/on switch under the dash with a relay. Not much > help or change in idle temperature while at stoplights or stop\go traffic. > 2. Built and installed a custom fan shroud. Remember I have an > oversize Griffin radiator. This change resulted in idle temp. drop by > maybe 2-3 degrees. Goal not achieve at this point but getting better. > 3. I then discussed issue with Flex-a-lite technical services hot line > (multiple times) regarding their electric pusher fan line. > > > 1. The rule of thumb they recommend: Electric fans of either the > pusher or puller type should be that the electric fan should cover 70% of > the radiator surface. Mine came out to 69.5% coverage. > 2. Small block V-8 engines recommendation is 3,000 CFM. > 3. Flex - a- Lite had only 1 fan that met these specifications. > > > > *FLX-105391 * > Electric Fan, Pusher, Flex-Wave, Single, 16 in. Diameter, 3,000 cfm, > Black, 20 amps, > (Mfr. #: 239) > > 1. Also purchased temp probe and relay from Flex ? a Lite which is > adjustable so you can set when the fan comes on. Off is 10 degrees from on > temp and is NOT adjustable. > > > > *FLX-121281 * > Fan Control, Compact, Adjustable, Thread-in Probe, Single Fan, Kit > (Mfr. #: 33095) > > e. Also purchased temperature probe adapter and installed in > the upper radiator hose. > > > > *FLX-107078 * > Radiator Hose Adapter, Aluminum, Fits 1 1/2 in. Hose, Has Two 1/4 in. NPT > Ports, Includes One Plug, Each > (Mfr. #: 32082) > > The idea was to run the stock temp gauge probe into the adapter and > keep my mechanical temperature gauge in place in the manifold to verify > stock gauge was pretty accurate. The ? NPT port would not handle the stock > probe and I could not find 1/4 probe with the correct ohms for the stock > gauge, so manual temp gauge is still in place which I believe is accurate. > > f. Goal still not achieved > > 1. Flex - a - Lite then offered the following advice ? ?You typically > only need one or the other. If you have a mechanical fan and just want > extra cooling in stop and go traffic, I suggest you use a much smaller > electric fan. But using both a mechanical and this bigger electric fan will > probably cause some disruption.? The two smaller electric fans I used did > not work in my case, so advice about smaller electric fan in conjunction > with mechanical water pump fan did not work in my particular car. > > Plan ?. Reinstalled the Flow Kooler water pump with new gasket. > > 1. Removed the mechanical fan from the water pump and the 1? spacer. > Finally success! Temp stays between 176 and 190 at ALL times regardless of > ambient temperature and traffic conditions. So, in my case, the mechanical > fan in conjunction with the electric fan was causing air flow disruption. > 2. The temp at speed above 35 mph, the car runs around 176 degrees > with 160 degree thermostat in temps 90 degrees and less. About 183 in > temperatures above 90, so not a issue. I might try out the 180 degree > thermostat at some point, 170 if I could find one might be optimum for my > car. The only down side for me is the electric fan is noisy when running > and volts on volt gauge drops around ? - ?- volt when the fan comes on.. > The battery volts dropping are due to fan drawing 20 amps. This has not > been a issue with lights on or off. I have a alternator and not the > generator so with generator cars, this might be an issue. Now I cannot > hear the electric fan *at all* inside the car but outside, it is > noisy when running. Headers, 2.25" exhaust pipes with Flow Master series > 40 mufflers. I wonder why I cannot hear fan running. > > So you see I have tried almost all recommended suggestions except lower > shroud addition and air dam to direct airflow. > > Every car reacts differently to changes and you have to keep trying > different approaches that might work for your car and temperature\humidity > of the area you reside. > > What changes I have made to me that had the biggest result and what would > I try again in what order to minimize cost, effort and work involved. > > Yahoo formatting again. > > Test temp gauge and sender to ensure reading properly. > > 1. Ensure radiator in good working order. > 2. Change thermostat from 180 to 170 then 160. > 3. Install horn block off plates, minimal cost and about 1 hour to > install. > 4. Fan shroud if you do not have one, 2-3 degrees improvement in my > case, custom made. Possible making of the lower portion of the shroud as > well, which I have not done. > 5. Undersize water pump pulley and at same time, try a different > mechanical fan and ensure fan is 1? from radiator. > 6. Flow Kooler water pump BRA-1680, 2-3 degrees improvement in my case > 7. New Griffin radiator. They sell a package for the Tiger with > radiator, electric fan and shroud. Remember my radiator is a custom > oversize radiator install by previous owner and the stock Griffin radiator > or package would not work in my case but I have installed a new custom > Griffin radiator. > 8. Remove mechanical fan and install electric pusher fan that covers > 70% of your radiator surface *and *moves 3,000 cfm?s as recommended > for small block V-8 motors. Items 8 and 9 could be in reverse order and > step 9 will not necessary if you purchase the Griffin Tiger package, your > call. > > So you see I have tried almost all recommended suggestions except lower > shroud addition and air dam to direct air flow and have finally met my goal > of keeping the temperature between 180 to 190 degrees in all driving > conditions. I hope my trials and findings will help you moving forward. > Any questions, please ask. > > Regards > > Joel Martin > > > > On Wednesday, July 19, 2023 at 09:09:34 PM EDT, > tigers-request at autox.team.net > wrote: > > > > > > Send Tigers mailing list submissions to > > tigers at autox.team.net > > > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers > > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > > tigers-request at autox.team.net > > > > You can reach the person managing the list at > > tigers-owner at autox.team.net > > > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > > than "Re: Contents of Tigers digest..." > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Cooling Fan (LARRY PAULICK) > > Joe, I did an article for Tigers United, that describes with photographs > what I did for the full fans shroud. > > > > TigersUnited.com > > > tigersunited.com > > > > > > > BTW, Tigers United has a lot of great articles covering the variety of > subjects. You might want to check it out. > > > > > > > > > On Jul 19, 2023, at 10:31 AM, Joe Brown ** wrote: > > > > > Thanks for all of the replies. I have a mostly stock engine (with > Edelbrock intake and 4 bbl.) and stock radiator. I have a temperature > gauge mounted on the intake and the engine seems to run a little over 200 > at idle but I haven't had any problems while driving the car. My problem > right now is that I took the car out one afternoon when the temperature was > over 100 degrees and when I pulled into the garage and shut the engine off > it puked some water onto the floor. The temp gauge was showing around 250 > degrees at that point. > > > > > I already have the lower shroud on my radiator and I am making some horn > opening covers today. I will also look at blocking off the area below the > radiator. I have read all of the articles that people have referred to and > I believe I have an airflow problem at low speeds. So I was just looking > for pusher fan recommendations at this point. > > > > > The best advice is to probably not drive in 100+ degree weather. > > > > > Thanks, > > > Joe Brown > > > > > On Wed, Jul 19, 2023 at 8:33?AM LARRY PAULICK via Tigers < > *tigers at autox.team.net*> wrote: > > > I made a custom lower fan shroud, as one does not exist for the stock > tiger, fan shroud. I did smoke test with the car at idle and the air comes > through the radiator down towards the ground and circles back through the > radiator again. So essentially you're just recycling hot air from your own > radiator. It works. > > > > > On Jul 19, 2023, at 2:03 AM, Owain Lloyd <*owain.lloyd at gmail.com*> wrote: > > > > > I think michael hit the nail on the head. first need to know is it > overheating when stationary / moving slowly or at speed? > > > > > a pusher fan will only help at very low speed or when stopped. and spal > is the go to brand. still need the horn holes and gap between cross > member and rad blocked. cardboard and zip ties does the trick quickly and > can be replaced with a more permanent solution later if you want. also > need a fan shroud. > > > > > personally i've never needed the electric pusher fan because i have a > small 13" flex fan on the water pump pulley. that creates enough pull > through the radiator at idle. > > > > > if its overheating at more than 30/40mph then its another problem entirely > and there are a variety of other things to check. > > > > > in my case its fuel boiling in the carb under certain conditions (slowing > down after running fast in really high ambient temps above a particular > altitude) rather than coolant temp which is the problem. there are a bunch > of things i could do there, most importantly a carb heat shield, but > i've only suffered from it once. > > > > > one thing i've found very useful for debugging cooling issues in the tiger > over the years is having a glass gano filter in the rad top hose. at least > you can see how the coolant is circulating which helps with thermostat or > water pump issues and if you're used to how it should look, even how > blocked the radiator is. > > > > > > > On Wed, Jul 19, 2023 at 7:41?AM Jim B via Tigers <*tigers at autox.team.net*> > wrote: > > > I?ve been reading about cooling issues with tigers for more that a decade > (much less than some reading this) blocking horn holes, pusher fans, and > shrouds etc etc. Entire studies have been done on this issue. Just check > STOA, CAT or any club site. All good reads! I think the first place to > start is knowing what the actual engine team really is. We all know that > the original temp guage can be off. The other thing is: as a dyed in the > wool ford guy, 185 degrees is the optimal engine temp. But, Ford engines > can get to 195-200 degrees easily and that is not necessarily a bad thing. > Yes, I put a pusher in mine only because I had one. I?m not really sure is > does anything. My original guage can show 225-230 on a hot day (humidity > plays a bitg role) but never has pucked out fluid. The design of the should > is an issue. It lets hot air from the engine compartment to get under the > radiator. Many, many, ?fixes? that can be done. However, on a hot low > humidity day.. well good luck. JMO > > > > > On Jul 18, 2023, at 8:40 PM, Allan Ballard <*aballard at ix.netcom.com*> > wrote: > > > > > The article includes several suggestions. > > > > > One of them is to seal the missing section of the stock fan shroud at the > bottom. > > > > > A list member offered a piece he fabricated. > > > > > I obtained one and here are a couple of pictures. I hope to fit it later > this year. > > > > > Even a few degrees of cooling will be worth the effort. > > > > > Allan Ballard > > > Mk1a Tiger > > > > > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > > > > On Jul 18, 2023, at 10:57 PM, Jay Laifman <*jay.laifman at gmail.com*> wrote: > > > Have you looked at this cooling suggestions? > *http://tigersunited.com/techtips/SteveLaifmanValance/pt-SteveLaifmanValance1.asp* > > > > > It works great in Southern California heat. > > > > > On Tue, Jul 18, 2023 at 3:42?PM Joe Brown <*jbbrown1980 at gmail.com*> wrote: > > > My Tiger can't keep up with this 100 degree weather in Texas. I've read > through the article by Tiger Tom and Chuck King and I will make some of the > suggested modifications. They listed two different pusher electric fans in > the article but both of them are no longer available. > > > > > So, has anybody recently installed a pusher fan? If so, what part numbers? > > > > > Thanks, > > > Joe Brown > > > _______________________________________________ > > *tigers at autox.team.net* > > Donate: *http://www.team.net/donate.html* > Archive: *http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers* > *http://autox.team.net/archive* > > Unsubscribe: > *http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/jay.laifman at gmail.com* > > > > _______________________________________________ > > *tigers at autox.team.net* > > Donate: *http://www.team.net/donate.html* > Archive: *http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers* > *http://autox.team.net/archive* > > Unsubscribe: > *http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/aballard at ix.netcom.com* > > > > _______________________________________________ > > *tigers at autox.team.net* > > Donate: *http://www.team.net/donate.html* > Archive: *http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers* > *http://autox.team.net/archive* > > Unsubscribe: > *http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/jbsyv at yahoo.com* > > > _______________________________________________ > > *tigers at autox.team.net* > > Donate: *http://www.team.net/donate.html* > Archive: *http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers* > *http://autox.team.net/archive* > > Unsubscribe: > *http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/owain.lloyd at gmail.com* > > > > _______________________________________________ > > *tigers at autox.team.net* > > Donate: *http://www.team.net/donate.html* > Archive: *http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers* > *http://autox.team.net/archive* > > Unsubscribe: > *http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/lpaulick1 at verizon.net* > > > _______________________________________________ > > *tigers at autox.team.net* > > Donate: *http://www.team.net/donate.html* > Archive: *http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers* > *http://autox.team.net/archive* > > Unsubscribe: > *http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/jbbrown1980 at gmail.com* > > > > _______________________________________________ > Tigers mailing list > *Tigers at autox.team.net* > *http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers* > > Donate: *http://www.team.net/donate.html* > Archive: *http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers* > *http://autox.team.net/archive* > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > *tigers at autox.team.net* > > > > Donate: *http://www.team.net/donate.html* > > Archive: *http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers* *http://autox.team.net/archive* > > > > Unsubscribe: *http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/atwittsend at verizon.net* > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > *tigers at autox.team.net* > > Donate: *http://www.team.net/donate.html* > Archive: *http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers* > *http://autox.team.net/archive* > > Unsubscribe: *http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/coolvt at aol.com* > > > > _______________________________________________ > > tigers at autox.team.net > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers > http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/garywinblad at comcast.net > > > _______________________________________________ > > tigers at autox.team.net > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers > http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/owain.lloyd at gmail.com > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From owain.lloyd at gmail.com Fri Jul 21 16:19:49 2023 From: owain.lloyd at gmail.com (Owain Lloyd) Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2023 00:19:49 +0200 Subject: [Tigers] Radiator, Fan, Shroud In-Reply-To: <0EF47D2B-02BE-4055-86F3-299A99969544@ix.netcom.com> References: <1735890384.1628892.1689864429073@mail.yahoo.com> <9c1dbc06-8149-cc45-c8f9-0473d7f12b98@verizon.net> <1748035535.3021761.1689876770577@mail.yahoo.com> <1907197432.3176268.1689894658364@mail.yahoo.com> <61B7D3BC-2AC8-4D5E-BBDA-667ED039454F@wt-inc.com> <0EF47D2B-02BE-4055-86F3-299A99969544@ix.netcom.com> Message-ID: Nice. I do think a lot of the benefit of the lower shroud can be had in about 5 minutes by zip tying a strip of cardboard between the cross member and the bottom of the road though. On Sat, 22 Jul 2023 at 00:03, Allan Ballard wrote: > > Stock shroud amended to become a full circle shroud. > > I?ve misplaced the guy?s name who fabricated these but do remember that > he?s a Canadian member. > > ?Allan Ballard > Atlanta, GA > [image: SHROULD2.jpg] > > [image: IMG_5492.jpg] > > On Jul 21, 2023, at 4:11 AM, Owain Lloyd via Tigers > wrote: > > fan > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: SHROULD2.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 866006 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_5492.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 475550 bytes Desc: not available URL: From dave at munroe.ca Sat Jul 22 13:59:08 2023 From: dave at munroe.ca (Dave Munroe) Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2023 16:59:08 -0300 Subject: [Tigers] Ethanol Laced Gasoline Message-ID: Hello from Nova Scotia! Classic and antique Car owners in Canada have, unfortunately, recently joined the many American enthusiasts who have had to find a way to gas up their vintage cars with ethanol-laced gasoline without damaging their fuel systems. Our Federal Government is on an understandable rampage to do everything in its power to help end Climate Change, and this is their latest effort to jump into the fray. (Whether or not this is a valid or questionable strategy is an issue for another time.) I am writing to ask if anyone has come up with an additive, (or some other solution) that can cancel the damage that ethanol does to gasoline engines. I have heard that aviation fuel is ethanol free, but there are very few airports here that will sell aviation fuel to non-aircraft owners. Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated by your Canadian car enthusiast Friends. Many thanks for any help you can provide. Dave Munroe, in Nova Scotia Sunbeam Tiger, MGB, and Several vulnerable Motorcycles. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From coolvt at aol.com Sat Jul 22 14:45:20 2023 From: coolvt at aol.com (M Lafayette) Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2023 20:45:20 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Tigers] Ethanol Laced Gasoline In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1805063194.3877285.1690058720717@mail.yahoo.com> Some of the stations in the US sell ethanal free gas, but only as high-test.? In a message dated 7/22/2023 4:15:09 PM Eastern Daylight Time, dave at munroe.ca writes:? Hello from Nova Scotia!?Classic and antique Car owners in Canada have, unfortunately, recently joined the many American enthusiasts?who have had to find a way togas up their vintage cars with ethanol-laced gasoline without damaging?their fuel systems. Our Federal Government is on an understandable rampageto do everything in its power to help end Climate Change, and?this is their latest effort to?jump into the fray. (Whether or not this is a valid or?questionable strategy is an issue for another time.)?I am writing to ask if anyone has come up with an additive, (or some other solution) that can cancel the damage that ethanol does to gasoline?engines. I have heard that aviation fuel is ethanol free, but there are very few airports here that will?sell aviation fuel to non-aircraft owners.?Any help or suggestions?would be greatly appreciated by your Canadian car enthusiast?Friends.?Many thanks for any help you can provide.?Dave Munroe, in Nova ScotiaSunbeam Tiger, MGB, and Several vulnerable Motorcycles._______________________________________________ tigers at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/coolvt at aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From owain.lloyd at gmail.com Sat Jul 22 15:00:01 2023 From: owain.lloyd at gmail.com (Owain Lloyd) Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2023 23:00:01 +0200 Subject: [Tigers] Ethanol Laced Gasoline In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: what exactly is your concern? water absorption? or damage to certain rubbers and natural materials? anything that could be damaged by E5 or E10 probably shouldn't still be in the car anyway. 60 years old fuel hoses and carb seals are not a recipe for reliability. likewise regular use and not leaving tanks of fuel for months is good advice with or without ethanol. I generally use E5 in all my cars and bikes. I don't think its ever caused a problem. On Sat, Jul 22, 2023 at 10:15?PM Dave Munroe wrote: > Hello from Nova Scotia! > > Classic and antique Car owners in Canada have, unfortunately, recently > joined the many American enthusiasts who have had to find a way to > gas up their vintage cars with ethanol-laced gasoline without > damaging their fuel systems. Our Federal Government is on an understandable > rampage > to do everything in its power to help end Climate Change, and this is > their latest effort to jump into the fray. (Whether or not this is a valid > or > questionable strategy is an issue for another time.) > > I am writing to ask if anyone has come up with an additive, (or some other > solution) that can cancel the damage that ethanol does to gasoline > engines. I have heard that aviation fuel is ethanol free, but there are > very few airports here that will sell aviation fuel to non-aircraft owners. > > Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated by your Canadian car > enthusiast Friends. > > Many thanks for any help you can provide. > > Dave Munroe, in Nova Scotia > Sunbeam Tiger, MGB, and Several vulnerable Motorcycles. > _______________________________________________ > > tigers at autox.team.net > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers > http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/owain.lloyd at gmail.com > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris at cthompson.net Sat Jul 22 15:40:46 2023 From: chris at cthompson.net (chris cthompson.net) Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2023 21:40:46 +0000 Subject: [Tigers] Ethanol Laced Gasoline In-Reply-To: <1805063194.3877285.1690058720717@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1805063194.3877285.1690058720717@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: In my county, Floyd, VA, every single gas station sells ethanol-free gas, but only the lowest octane. It?s about fifty cents more expensive than the equivalent with ethanol. From: Tigers On Behalf Of M Lafayette via Tigers Sent: Saturday, July 22, 2023 4:45 PM To: dave at munroe.ca; tigers at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Tigers] Ethanol Laced Gasoline Some of the stations in the US sell ethanal free gas, but only as high-test. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sjhcobra1 at cs.com Sat Jul 22 15:41:28 2023 From: sjhcobra1 at cs.com (STEPHEN HALBROOK) Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2023 17:41:28 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Ethanol Laced Gasoline In-Reply-To: <1805063194.3877285.1690058720717@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1805063194.3877285.1690058720717@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5CB1E183-AB8F-4725-866E-2D20E1EDF777@cs.com> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From garywinblad at comcast.net Sat Jul 22 19:46:16 2023 From: garywinblad at comcast.net (GARY WINBLAD) Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2023 21:46:16 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Tigers] Ethanol Laced Gasoline In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1471771254.446946.1690076776993@connect.xfinity.com> In California, all gas contains ethanol year round with a higher concentration in winter (I think). The only real problem I have seen in my Tiger is with my old (1973) 2bbl Holly carb. The little conical shaped check valves for the accelator pump get stuck to their seats within a few days of not driving the car. If I turn on the fuel pump and give the pedal a push and then wait maybe 10 minutes, it un-sticks the valves. Ok, the real problem is that I don't have a choke because in CA the weather is mild. When the engine is cold though, I need to add extra gas myself with the accelerator pump to get it to start. Gary > On 07/22/2023 2:00 PM PDT Owain Lloyd wrote: > > > what exactly is your concern? water absorption? or damage to certain rubbers and natural materials? anything that could be damaged by E5 or E10 probably shouldn't still be in the car anyway. 60 years old fuel hoses and carb seals are not a recipe for reliability. likewise regular use and not leaving tanks of fuel for months is good advice with or without ethanol. > > I generally use E5 in all my cars and bikes. I don't think its ever caused a problem. > > On Sat, Jul 22, 2023 at 10:15?PM Dave Munroe wrote: > > > Hello from Nova Scotia! > > > > Classic and antique Car owners in Canada have, unfortunately, recently joined the many American enthusiasts who have had to find a way to > > gas up their vintage cars with ethanol-laced gasoline without damaging their fuel systems. Our Federal Government is on an understandable rampage > > to do everything in its power to help end Climate Change, and this is their latest effort to jump into the fray. (Whether or not this is a valid or > > questionable strategy is an issue for another time.) > > > > I am writing to ask if anyone has come up with an additive, (or some other solution) that can cancel the damage that ethanol does to gasoline > > engines. I have heard that aviation fuel is ethanol free, but there are very few airports here that will sell aviation fuel to non-aircraft owners. > > > > Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated by your Canadian car enthusiast Friends. > > > > Many thanks for any help you can provide. > > > > Dave Munroe, in Nova Scotia > > Sunbeam Tiger, MGB, and Several vulnerable Motorcycles. > > _______________________________________________ > > > > tigers at autox.team.net mailto:tigers at autox.team.net > > > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive > > > > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/owain.lloyd at gmail.com > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > tigers at autox.team.net > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/garywinblad at comcast.net > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From packertl3 at yahoo.com Sun Jul 23 05:36:29 2023 From: packertl3 at yahoo.com (Terry Packer) Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2023 11:36:29 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Tigers] Ethanol Laced Gasoline In-Reply-To: <1805063194.3877285.1690058720717@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1805063194.3877285.1690058720717@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2118361408.3259772.1690112189608@mail.yahoo.com> Hello Dave I haven't seen anyone respond regarding an additive which offsets the shortcomings of gas with ethanol. It will be interesting to see if anyone knows of such an animal. Regarding damage, I can only offer that I've used ethanol laced fuel in all my vehicles without issue for many years including the Tiger and a 1969 BSA. However, it has quickly compromised several small-engine carburetors on chain saws (2T) and weedeaters (4T). A carb rebuild or replacement of the whole carb, which is cheap, makes the implement immediately start and run normally again. This problem does not occur using no-alcohol gas. So I am convinced ethanol fuel has one or more damaging components but the number and amount of susceptible materials in my vehicles seems to be modest. While there is a station which sells alcohol free fuel in my county, it is too far away to be practical. In addition to the av-gas option I thought I'd mention that there is a local fuel distributor who supplies no alcohol "race gas", by the gallon or drum, to drivers at the local dirt track. It would be a little pricey to fuel a street car this way but it might be considered depending on the volume required. Good Luck. Terry ********************************************************** On Saturday, July 22, 2023 at 04:36:09 PM CDT, M Lafayette via Tigers wrote: Some of the stations in the US sell ethanal free gas, but only as high-test.? In a message dated 7/22/2023 4:15:09 PM Eastern Daylight Time, dave at munroe.ca writes:? Hello from Nova Scotia!?Classic and antique Car owners in Canada have, unfortunately, recently joined the many American enthusiasts?who have had to find a way togas up their vintage cars with ethanol-laced gasoline without damaging?their fuel systems. Our Federal Government is on an understandable rampageto do everything in its power to help end Climate Change, and?this is their latest effort to?jump into the fray. (Whether or not this is a valid or?questionable strategy is an issue for another time.)?I am writing to ask if anyone has come up with an additive, (or some other solution) that can cancel the damage that ethanol does to gasoline?engines. I have heard that aviation fuel is ethanol free, but there are very few airports here that will?sell aviation fuel to non-aircraft owners.?Any help or suggestions?would be greatly appreciated by your Canadian car enthusiast?Friends.?Many thanks for any help you can provide.?Dave Munroe, in Nova ScotiaSunbeam Tiger, MGB, and Several vulnerable Motorcycles._______________________________________________ tigers at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/coolvt at aol.com _______________________________________________ tigers at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/packertl3 at yahoo.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From harryb at elams.org Sun Jul 23 06:26:13 2023 From: harryb at elams.org (H B Elam) Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2023 08:26:13 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Ethanol Message-ID: In NC and FL and probably in other areas with many boaters, Non-ethanol is available at gas pumps. The price is equal to high test and claims to be 93 octane. Harry Elam TAC insp #37 From coolvt at aol.com Sun Jul 23 07:51:15 2023 From: coolvt at aol.com (M Lafayette) Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2023 13:51:15 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Tigers] Ethanol In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1712871777.4011664.1690120275116@mail.yahoo.com> I put the Tiger, a PU and a riding lawnmower away for 6 months each year. I add gas stabilizer to the tanks, drive around to be sure it's mixed and then just park them.? Have had zero problems. However, I have experienced problems with small engines and carbs when I stupidly didn't drain the gas or add stabilizer.? ?The fuel stabilizer is available as most auto stores and even Walmart auto dept.? Mark In a message dated 7/23/2023 9:03:43 AM Eastern Daylight Time, harryb at elams.org writes:? In NC and FL and probably in other areas with many boaters, Non-ethanol is available at gas pumps. The price is equal to high test and claims to be 93 octane.?Harry ElamTAC insp #37_______________________________________________?tigers at autox.team.net?Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.htmlArchive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive?Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/coolvt at aol.com?? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From phastphill at aol.com Sun Jul 23 13:14:20 2023 From: phastphill at aol.com (phastphill at aol.com) Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2023 19:14:20 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Tigers] Ethanol Laced Gasoline In-Reply-To: <5CB1E183-AB8F-4725-866E-2D20E1EDF777@cs.com> References: <1805063194.3877285.1690058720717@mail.yahoo.com> <5CB1E183-AB8F-4725-866E-2D20E1EDF777@cs.com> Message-ID: <657926270.4084613.1690139660677@mail.yahoo.com> no not in Canada....go to a marina,most sell ethanol free gas ,in ont shell 93 is ethanol free On Saturday, July 22, 2023 at 09:23:17 p.m. EDT, STEPHEN HALBROOK via Tigers wrote: Do you have WaWa gasoline stations? In the Tampa Florida are there are numerous WaWa stations with an ethanol free pump. Steve Halbrook Sent from my iPhone On Jul 22, 2023, at 5:33 PM, M Lafayette via Tigers wrote: ?Some of the stations in the US sell ethanal free gas, but only as high-test.? In a message dated 7/22/2023 4:15:09 PM Eastern Daylight Time, dave at munroe.ca writes:? Hello from Nova Scotia!?Classic and antique Car owners in Canada have, unfortunately, recently joined the many American enthusiasts?who have had to find a way togas up their vintage cars with ethanol-laced gasoline without damaging?their fuel systems. Our Federal Government is on an understandable rampageto do everything in its power to help end Climate Change, and?this is their latest effort to?jump into the fray. (Whether or not this is a valid or?questionable strategy is an issue for another time.)?I am writing to ask if anyone has come up with an additive, (or some other solution) that can cancel the damage that ethanol does to gasoline?engines. I have heard that aviation fuel is ethanol free, but there are very few airports here that will?sell aviation fuel to non-aircraft owners.?Any help or suggestions?would be greatly appreciated by your Canadian car enthusiast?Friends.?Many thanks for any help you can provide.?Dave Munroe, in Nova ScotiaSunbeam Tiger, MGB, and Several vulnerable Motorcycles._______________________________________________ tigers at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/coolvt at aol.com _______________________________________________ tigers at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/sjhcobra1 at cs.com _______________________________________________ tigers at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/phastphill at aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From brettbbonner at yahoo.com Mon Jul 24 06:56:27 2023 From: brettbbonner at yahoo.com (Brett Bonner) Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2023 08:56:27 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Need lower control arm References: <72804E4F-32FC-447D-9751-40E3A01B7DC6.ref@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <72804E4F-32FC-447D-9751-40E3A01B7DC6@yahoo.com> HI - I am restoring an all original (except for paint and some interior) 1965 carnival red Mark 1. We have had it in the family for 55 years. The right (passenger) lower control are and fulcrum pin is bent. I have found and purchased the fulcrum pin. But I need a lower control arm. Do any of you know where I can get a lower control arm? Thank you. Brett Bonner 513-646-6461. Westerville Ohio. Sent from mobile - please excuse errors :) From robertdhogan at gmail.com Mon Jul 24 22:14:55 2023 From: robertdhogan at gmail.com (Rob Hogan) Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2023 00:14:55 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] B9470092LRXFE's 13" wheels with Wilwood Brakes Message-ID: B94700092 sold on B.a.T today is defined as having 13" wheels with Wilwood front brake calipers and I assume non-stock brake rotors. It has been my understanding that all Wilwood brakes for the Tiger required 15" wheels. What have I missed about the combinations? [image: image.png] -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image.png Type: image/png Size: 282474 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jbsyv at yahoo.com Mon Jul 24 22:58:16 2023 From: jbsyv at yahoo.com (Jim B) Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2023 21:58:16 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] B9470092LRXFE's 13" wheels with Wilwood Brakes In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <37E393FB-A9E7-4D2B-8DCC-EF76CD41272A@yahoo.com> I?m not sure about the brake set up and so on. So, I am off topic here but, I was watching this auction and I know the car had some flaws but I was surprised at the low price paid. Jmo > On Jul 24, 2023, at 9:14 PM, Rob Hogan wrote: > > B94700092 sold on B.a.T today is defined as having 13" wheels with Wilwood front brake calipers and I assume non-stock brake rotors. It has been my understanding that all Wilwood brakes for the Tiger required 15" wheels. What have I missed about the combinations? > > _______________________________________________ > > tigers at autox.team.net > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/jbsyv at yahoo.com > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jim at island.net Mon Jul 24 23:21:37 2023 From: jim at island.net (Jim) Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2023 22:21:37 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] B9470092LRXFE's 13" wheels with Wilwood Brakes In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7FCE6B2D-AB8A-477B-B307-5D4C94079A8B@island.net> My car has Wilwood dynalite 4-1 3/4? piston calipers and 11 1/8? Porsche rotors and fit behind 14? 3-pc Epsilon wheels so with a little smaller rotors I suppose it?s doable? Jim B382000446LRXFE Sent from my ShoePhone > On Jul 24, 2023, at 9:56 PM, Rob Hogan wrote: > > ? > B94700092 sold on B.a.T today is defined as having 13" wheels with Wilwood front brake calipers and I assume non-stock brake rotors. It has been my understanding that all Wilwood brakes for the Tiger required 15" wheels. What have I missed about the combinations? > > > _______________________________________________ > > tigers at autox.team.net > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/jim at island.net > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jimmc13 at socket.net Tue Jul 25 08:01:03 2023 From: jimmc13 at socket.net (James ) Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2023 08:01:03 -0600 Subject: [Tigers] B9470092LRXFE's 13" wheels with Wilwood Brakes In-Reply-To: <7FCE6B2D-AB8A-477B-B307-5D4C94079A8B@island.net> References: <7FCE6B2D-AB8A-477B-B307-5D4C94079A8B@island.net> Message-ID: <001201d9bf00$7301e6f0$5905b4d0$@socket.net> Fellow Listers, I have a 1966 Mark 1a with Wildwood front disk brakes and Panasport 13? Wheels. Early on, Wildwood provided a 10.5? set of brakes to fit our cars. This is what I used. The brakes work great. NO longer made. I might of bought from Dale A.. See picture form 2012 of the right front of my car. Jim McLaughlin B382000175 LRXFE TAC?d in Independence, MO From: Tigers On Behalf Of Jim via Tigers Sent: Monday, July 24, 2023 11:22 PM To: Rob Hogan Cc: Tiger's List Subject: Re: [Tigers] B9470092LRXFE's 13" wheels with Wilwood Brakes My car has Wilwood dynalite 4-1 3/4? piston calipers and 11 1/8? Porsche rotors and fit behind 14? 3-pc Epsilon wheels so with a little smaller rotors I suppose it?s doable? Jim B382000446LRXFE Sent from my ShoePhone On Jul 24, 2023, at 9:56 PM, Rob Hogan > wrote: ? B94700092 sold on B.a.T today is defined as having 13" wheels with Wilwood front brake calipers and I assume non-stock brake rotors. It has been my understanding that all Wilwood brakes for the Tiger required 15" wheels. What have I missed about the combinations? _______________________________________________ tigers at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/jim at island.net -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 2012-12-11_15-44-42_829.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 374217 bytes Desc: not available URL: From michael.s.king at gmail.com Tue Jul 25 10:29:26 2023 From: michael.s.king at gmail.com (michael king) Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2023 00:29:26 +0800 Subject: [Tigers] B9470092LRXFE's 13" wheels with Wilwood Brakes In-Reply-To: <001201d9bf00$7301e6f0$5905b4d0$@socket.net> References: <7FCE6B2D-AB8A-477B-B307-5D4C94079A8B@island.net> <001201d9bf00$7301e6f0$5905b4d0$@socket.net> Message-ID: I sent a mail originally about this kit.. but forgot to cc the list. I have this 10.5 vented kit from Dale... It wouldn't fit the stock steels.. but did minilite wheels On Tue, 25 July 2023, 8:59 pm James, wrote: > Fellow Listers, > > > > I have a 1966 Mark 1a with Wildwood front disk brakes and Panasport 13? > Wheels. Early on, Wildwood provided a 10.5? set of brakes to fit our > cars. This is what I used. The brakes work great. NO longer made. I > might of bought from Dale A.. See picture form 2012 of the right front > of my car. > > Jim McLaughlin > > B382000175 LRXFE > > TAC?d in Independence, MO > > > > *From:* Tigers *On Behalf Of *Jim via > Tigers > *Sent:* Monday, July 24, 2023 11:22 PM > *To:* Rob Hogan > *Cc:* Tiger's List > *Subject:* Re: [Tigers] B9470092LRXFE's 13" wheels with Wilwood Brakes > > > > My car has Wilwood dynalite 4-1 3/4? piston calipers and 11 1/8? Porsche > rotors and fit behind 14? 3-pc Epsilon wheels so with a little smaller > rotors I suppose it?s doable? > > > > Jim > > B382000446LRXFE > > Sent from my ShoePhone > > > > > > On Jul 24, 2023, at 9:56 PM, Rob Hogan wrote: > > ? > > B94700092 sold on B.a.T today is defined as having 13" wheels with Wilwood > front brake calipers and I assume non-stock brake rotors. It has been my > understanding that all Wilwood brakes for the Tiger required 15" wheels. > What have I missed about the combinations? > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > tigers at autox.team.net > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers > http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/jim at island.net > > _______________________________________________ > > tigers at autox.team.net > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers > http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/michael.s.king at gmail.com > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From brettbbonner at yahoo.com Wed Jul 26 05:44:28 2023 From: brettbbonner at yahoo.com (Brett Bonner) Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2023 07:44:28 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] =?utf-8?q?Response_to_=E2=80=9CNeed_lower_control_arm?= =?utf-8?b?4oCd?= In-Reply-To: <72804E4F-32FC-447D-9751-40E3A01B7DC6@yahoo.com> References: <72804E4F-32FC-447D-9751-40E3A01B7DC6@yahoo.com> Message-ID: I want to thank all that replied. I had a great response. What a great community! At this point, we believe we straightened the arm sufficiently. This car was my father, brother and mine. I have had it the last it 20 years or so and now it is time to get it in great roadworthy shape. Thanks in advance for your future help. I look forward to joining the community. Sent from mobile - please excuse errors :) > On Jul 24, 2023, at 8:56 AM, Brett Bonner wrote: > > ? > HI - I am restoring an all original (except for paint and some interior) 1965 carnival red Mark 1. We have had it in the family for 55 years. > > The right (passenger) lower control are and fulcrum pin is bent. I have found and purchased the fulcrum pin. But I need a lower control arm. > > Do any of you know where I can get a lower control arm? > > Thank you. > > Brett Bonner 513-646-6461. Westerville Ohio. > > > Sent from mobile - please excuse errors :) From chris at cthompson.net Wed Jul 26 18:54:14 2023 From: chris at cthompson.net (chris cthompson.net) Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2023 00:54:14 +0000 Subject: [Tigers] Registry In-Reply-To: References: <72804E4F-32FC-447D-9751-40E3A01B7DC6@yahoo.com> Message-ID: Can someone give me the contact info for whoever is currently caretaking the registry? I've got an update. B382000331 From tigerfixer at yahoo.com Thu Jul 27 12:25:40 2023 From: tigerfixer at yahoo.com (Bill Martin) Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2023 18:25:40 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Tigers] Registry In-Reply-To: References: <72804E4F-32FC-447D-9751-40E3A01B7DC6@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1409229453.6189726.1690482340539@mail.yahoo.com> Hello.Norm asked me to take over the registry a few months after his stroke.? Bill Martin?1865 Walsh Ave?Santa Clara, Ca 95050650 364 1965 Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android On Thu, Jul 27, 2023 at 2:30 AM, chris cthompson.net wrote: Can someone give me the contact info for whoever is currently caretaking the registry?? I've got an update. B382000331 _______________________________________________ tigers at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/tigerfixer at yahoo.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From garywinblad at comcast.net Thu Jul 27 17:47:56 2023 From: garywinblad at comcast.net (Gary) Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2023 16:47:56 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Registry In-Reply-To: <1409229453.6189726.1690482340539@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1409229453.6189726.1690482340539@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <76CD071E-35A9-43D8-B14D-27CAD6017EA2@comcast.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From garywinblad at comcast.net Fri Jul 28 18:12:06 2023 From: garywinblad at comcast.net (GARY WINBLAD) Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2023 20:12:06 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Tigers] Registry In-Reply-To: <1409229453.6189726.1690482340539@mail.yahoo.com> References: <72804E4F-32FC-447D-9751-40E3A01B7DC6@yahoo.com> <1409229453.6189726.1690482340539@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1449496668.587106.1690589526359@connect.xfinity.com> Bill, Are you taking registry info like Norman did? I just sold my Tiger, do you want to list condition, new owner etc.? And, how is Norman doing? Gary Winblad > On 07/27/2023 11:25 AM PDT Bill Martin via Tigers wrote: > > > Hello. > Norm asked me to take over the registry a few months after his stroke. > > Bill Martin > 1865 Walsh Ave > Santa Clara, Ca 95050 > 650 364 1965 > > Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android https://mail.onelink.me/107872968?pid=nativeplacement&c=Global_Acquisition_YMktg_315_Internal_EmailSignature&af_sub1=Acquisition&af_sub2=Global_YMktg&af_sub3=&af_sub4=100000604&af_sub5=EmailSignature__Static_ > > > > On Thu, Jul 27, 2023 at 2:30 AM, chris cthompson.net > > wrote: > > > > > > Can someone give me the contact info for whoever is currently caretaking the registry? I've got an update. > > > > B382000331 > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > tigers at autox.team.net mailto:tigers at autox.team.net > > > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive > > > > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/tigerfixer at yahoo.com > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > tigers at autox.team.net > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/garywinblad at comcast.net > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From modtiger at comcast.net Sat Jul 29 17:53:40 2023 From: modtiger at comcast.net (Tom Hall) Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2023 16:53:40 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Brake & Clutch pedals Message-ID: <65547d64-a497-0eb3-a09e-463bd95ff510@comcast.net> As most of you know I?ve been modifying Tiger/Alpine brake pedals for over 10 years to change the mechanical ratio from the OEM 4.4 to 1 to 6 to 1.For all practical purposes, this eliminates the need for the problematic vacuum booster.As it turns out, this modification also works well on the clutch pedal making it much easier on your left leg and knee.This modification process requires me to weld a new pivot boss on the pedal above the OEM location.The precision needed to weld and machine this new boss on the pedal is reasonably critical and hard to do without the tooling I have developed. I have interested clutch pedal customers with right hand drive Tigers in Australia, so I have a need to borrow (or buy) a right hand clutch pedal so that I will be able to create the tooling to reshape left hand pedals to work in the right hand location.If you have such a clutch pedal, I would like to borrow or buy this pedal so that I can address this need. I promise that I will not damage your pedal in my tooling development.Please advise if you can help.Tom -- Tom Hall ModTiger Engineering LLC 5712 San Luis Court Pleasanton, CA 94566 (925)462-3876 modtiger at comcast.net http://tigerengineering.net/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cbowland at msn.com Fri Jul 28 11:18:16 2023 From: cbowland at msn.com (Curt Bowland) Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2023 17:18:16 +0000 Subject: [Tigers] Checking in In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Sorry to Bother, do you order from Amazo n? Curt -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: