From rollright at aol.com  Fri Jul  1 07:42:06 2022
From: rollright at aol.com (JAMES ARMSTRONG)
Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2022 09:42:06 -0400
Subject: [Tigers] Moss motors plans for Sunbeam  Parts
References: <6B83C527-C4AC-41E2-B080-8920A8893E9F.ref@aol.com>
Message-ID: <6B83C527-C4AC-41E2-B080-8920A8893E9F@aol.com>

Hello,
I?ve been wondering what Moss motors was going to do with their Sunbeam parts. I sent the following email and got the following response. The response comes first the original email is at the bottom.

Hi James
As it stands at the moment.  We have not uncrated the inventory.  There is no word from management as to whether or not these parts will be retailed from us or sold of in bulk to another Sunbeam retailer.  Sorry I cannot offer much more than that.  Cheers 

Dan Ciccone
Sales Professional 
Moss Motors 
800-667-7872 extension 7453
cicconed at mossmotors.com
On Tue, 28 Jun at 12:01 PM , JAMES ARMSTRONG <rollright at aol.com> wrote:
When are you going to start selling the Sunbeam parts that you obtained when you purchased Victoria British?s inventory?

Jim Armstrong
Rollright at aol.com

Sent from my iPhone

On Jun 28, 2022, at 2:53 PM, Moss Motors <moss.sales at info.mossmotors.com> wrote:

Club
Catalog Download
93282:1089000


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From jimdamelio at verizon.net  Fri Jul  1 08:03:27 2022
From: jimdamelio at verizon.net (Jim D'Amelio)
Date: Fri, 01 Jul 2022 10:03:27 -0400
Subject: [Tigers] Washer Bottle Bracket Blue
Message-ID: <1226602056.2409401.1656684209210@verizon.net>

Does anyone know a good matching paint for the Tudor Blue on the bracket?Jim DSent from my Galaxy
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From jay.laifman at gmail.com  Fri Jul  1 08:54:42 2022
From: jay.laifman at gmail.com (Jay Laifman)
Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2022 07:54:42 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] Moss motors plans for Sunbeam Parts
In-Reply-To: <6B83C527-C4AC-41E2-B080-8920A8893E9F@aol.com>
References: <6B83C527-C4AC-41E2-B080-8920A8893E9F.ref@aol.com>
 <6B83C527-C4AC-41E2-B080-8920A8893E9F@aol.com>
Message-ID: <CAAjp1z7ZuT-xbwKBe2sJvFaFCavP35QZQgkTK6AmHRQ_eS9y6A@mail.gmail.com>

I think they may have an over inflated sense of value of the Sunbeam stuff
that VB had.

On Fri, Jul 1, 2022 at 7:08 AM JAMES ARMSTRONG via Tigers <
tigers at autox.team.net> wrote:

> Hello,
> I?ve been wondering what Moss motors was going to do with their Sunbeam
> parts. I sent the following email and got the following response. The
> response comes first the original email is at the bottom.
>
> Hi James
> As it stands at the moment.  We have not uncrated the inventory.  There is
> no word from management as to whether or not these parts will be retailed
> from us or sold of in bulk to another Sunbeam retailer.  Sorry I cannot
> offer much more than that.  Cheers
>
> Dan Ciccone
> Sales Professional
> Moss Motors
> 800-667-7872 extension 7453
> cicconed at mossmotors.com
>
> On Tue, 28 Jun at 12:01 PM , JAMES ARMSTRONG <rollright at aol.com> wrote:
> When are you going to start selling the Sunbeam parts that you obtained
> when you purchased Victoria British?s inventory?
>
> Jim Armstrong
> Rollright at aol.com
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jun 28, 2022, at 2:53 PM, Moss Motors <moss.sales at info.mossmotors.com>
> wrote:
>
> Club
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__info.mossmotors.com_re-3Fl-3DD0I1u5xtqlIj93gr26IrITl4yar777I1u5lqnl-26s-3DNPFMJBGJHDBKIPJD&d=DwMFaQ&c=euGZstcaTDllvimEN8b7jXrwqOf-v5A_CdpgnVfiiMM&r=MZ8tsoS16BQACYgAaAvBNzRZyNf0JAZqROay7JeBP9U&m=8LBOlaNyW3ufqIuMwQuPpC6evSk6lJRW6I4xMZVNiiI&s=48B1l4H7WECBQ7VvbCZUDtweCv7C7WyZTkBoDDGItDY&e=>
> Catalog Download
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__info.mossmotors.com_re-3Fl-3DD0I1u5xtqlIj93gr26IsITl4yar777I1u5lqnl-26s-3DNPFMJBGJHDBKIPJD&d=DwMFaQ&c=euGZstcaTDllvimEN8b7jXrwqOf-v5A_CdpgnVfiiMM&r=MZ8tsoS16BQACYgAaAvBNzRZyNf0JAZqROay7JeBP9U&m=8LBOlaNyW3ufqIuMwQuPpC6evSk6lJRW6I4xMZVNiiI&s=svExDrWsbPZno6wFfjq0R4q4Owp_NmvWYiKyyCpoq9U&e=>
>
> 93282:1089000
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> tigers at autox.team.net
>
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers
> http://autox.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/jay.laifman at gmail.com
>
>
>
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From rollright at aol.com  Fri Jul  1 09:12:33 2022
From: rollright at aol.com (JAMES ARMSTRONG)
Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2022 11:12:33 -0400
Subject: [Tigers] Moss motors plans for Sunbeam Parts
In-Reply-To: <CAAjp1z7ZuT-xbwKBe2sJvFaFCavP35QZQgkTK6AmHRQ_eS9y6A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAAjp1z7ZuT-xbwKBe2sJvFaFCavP35QZQgkTK6AmHRQ_eS9y6A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <88748171-6DA7-4509-A047-6B470C10887B@aol.com>

Which means, no news
Jim A

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 1, 2022, at 10:54 AM, Jay Laifman <jay.laifman at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> ?
> I think they may have an over inflated sense of value of the Sunbeam stuff that VB had.  
> 
>> On Fri, Jul 1, 2022 at 7:08 AM JAMES ARMSTRONG via Tigers <tigers at autox.team.net> wrote:
>> Hello,
>> I?ve been wondering what Moss motors was going to do with their Sunbeam parts. I sent the following email and got the following response. The response comes first the original email is at the bottom.
>> 
>> Hi James
>> As it stands at the moment.  We have not uncrated the inventory.  There is no word from management as to whether or not these parts will be retailed from us or sold of in bulk to another Sunbeam retailer.  Sorry I cannot offer much more than that.  Cheers 
>> 
>> Dan Ciccone
>> Sales Professional 
>> Moss Motors 
>> 800-667-7872 extension 7453
>> cicconed at mossmotors.com
>> On Tue, 28 Jun at 12:01 PM , JAMES ARMSTRONG <rollright at aol.com> wrote:
>> When are you going to start selling the Sunbeam parts that you obtained when you purchased Victoria British?s inventory?
>> 
>> Jim Armstrong
>> Rollright at aol.com
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> On Jun 28, 2022, at 2:53 PM, Moss Motors <moss.sales at info.mossmotors.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Club
>> Catalog Download
>> 93282:1089000
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> 
>> tigers at autox.team.net
>> 
>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive
>> 
>> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/jay.laifman at gmail.com
>> 
>> 
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From rfraser at bluefrog.com  Fri Jul  1 09:16:41 2022
From: rfraser at bluefrog.com (Ron Fraser)
Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2022 11:16:41 -0400
Subject: [Tigers] Washer Bottle Bracket Blue
In-Reply-To: <1226602056.2409401.1656684209210@verizon.net>
References: <1226602056.2409401.1656684209210@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <001301d88d5d$927b51e0$b771f5a0$@bluefrog.com>

Jim

                I believe French Blue is close.

 

I think I painted my bracket with  71 Datsun 510 blue because I had some of that paint.

 

Some have used Ford blue engine paint.

 

Ron Fraser

 

 

 

From: Tigers <tigers-bounces at autox.team.net> On Behalf Of Jim D'Amelio via Tigers
Sent: Friday, July 01, 2022 10:03 AM
To: 'Tiger's List' <tigers at autox.team.net>
Subject: [Tigers] Washer Bottle Bracket Blue

 

Does anyone know a good matching paint for the Tudor Blue on the bracket?

 

Jim D

 

 

 

Sent from my Galaxy

 

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From sabre2tgr at gmail.com  Fri Jul  1 09:34:38 2022
From: sabre2tgr at gmail.com (Stu)
Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2022 11:34:38 -0400
Subject: [Tigers] Moss motors plans for Sunbeam Parts
In-Reply-To: <6B83C527-C4AC-41E2-B080-8920A8893E9F@aol.com>
References: <6B83C527-C4AC-41E2-B080-8920A8893E9F.ref@aol.com>
 <6B83C527-C4AC-41E2-B080-8920A8893E9F@aol.com>
Message-ID: <CA+DpG65hAddxNSLL5kAqytJzvjsypfak6LPat+KviabxOQBf8w@mail.gmail.com>

Yes, I'm sure we can't wait for all their top quality parts to be on the
market again.  My favorite was the caliper rebuild kit with the outer
bellows part that was so thick that new pads were forced firmly against the
disk.  Hot disks in a quarter mile. The ss kit was fine.

On Fri, Jul 1, 2022, 10:08 AM JAMES ARMSTRONG via Tigers <
tigers at autox.team.net> wrote:

> Hello,
> I?ve been wondering what Moss motors was going to do with their Sunbeam
> parts. I sent the following email and got the following response. The
> response comes first the original email is at the bottom.
>
> Hi James
> As it stands at the moment.  We have not uncrated the inventory.  There is
> no word from management as to whether or not these parts will be retailed
> from us or sold of in bulk to another Sunbeam retailer.  Sorry I cannot
> offer much more than that.  Cheers
>
> Dan Ciccone
> Sales Professional
> Moss Motors
> 800-667-7872 extension 7453
> cicconed at mossmotors.com
>
> On Tue, 28 Jun at 12:01 PM , JAMES ARMSTRONG <rollright at aol.com> wrote:
> When are you going to start selling the Sunbeam parts that you obtained
> when you purchased Victoria British?s inventory?
>
> Jim Armstrong
> Rollright at aol.com
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jun 28, 2022, at 2:53 PM, Moss Motors <moss.sales at info.mossmotors.com>
> wrote:
>
> Club
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__info.mossmotors.com_re-3Fl-3DD0I1u5xtqlIj93gr26IrITl4yar777I1u5lqnl-26s-3DNPFMJBGJHDBKIPJD&d=DwMFaQ&c=euGZstcaTDllvimEN8b7jXrwqOf-v5A_CdpgnVfiiMM&r=MZ8tsoS16BQACYgAaAvBNzRZyNf0JAZqROay7JeBP9U&m=8LBOlaNyW3ufqIuMwQuPpC6evSk6lJRW6I4xMZVNiiI&s=48B1l4H7WECBQ7VvbCZUDtweCv7C7WyZTkBoDDGItDY&e=>
> Catalog Download
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__info.mossmotors.com_re-3Fl-3DD0I1u5xtqlIj93gr26IsITl4yar777I1u5lqnl-26s-3DNPFMJBGJHDBKIPJD&d=DwMFaQ&c=euGZstcaTDllvimEN8b7jXrwqOf-v5A_CdpgnVfiiMM&r=MZ8tsoS16BQACYgAaAvBNzRZyNf0JAZqROay7JeBP9U&m=8LBOlaNyW3ufqIuMwQuPpC6evSk6lJRW6I4xMZVNiiI&s=svExDrWsbPZno6wFfjq0R4q4Owp_NmvWYiKyyCpoq9U&e=>
>
> 93282:1089000
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> tigers at autox.team.net
>
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers
> http://autox.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/sabre2tgr at gmail.com
>
>
>
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From jbbrown1980 at gmail.com  Fri Jul  1 09:51:58 2022
From: jbbrown1980 at gmail.com (Joe Brown)
Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2022 10:51:58 -0500
Subject: [Tigers] Moss motors plans for Sunbeam Parts
In-Reply-To: <88748171-6DA7-4509-A047-6B470C10887B@aol.com>
References: <CAAjp1z7ZuT-xbwKBe2sJvFaFCavP35QZQgkTK6AmHRQ_eS9y6A@mail.gmail.com>
 <88748171-6DA7-4509-A047-6B470C10887B@aol.com>
Message-ID: <CAKb_wfnVS23CWSYJVavx0dd+dHi3Vs-jp-jxA=n5+SUZXNfK5w@mail.gmail.com>

I hope somebody at least gets the windshields.

On Fri, Jul 1, 2022 at 10:31 AM JAMES ARMSTRONG via Tigers <
tigers at autox.team.net> wrote:

> Which means, no news
> Jim A
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jul 1, 2022, at 10:54 AM, Jay Laifman <jay.laifman at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> ?
> I think they may have an over inflated sense of value of the Sunbeam stuff
> that VB had.
>
> On Fri, Jul 1, 2022 at 7:08 AM JAMES ARMSTRONG via Tigers <
> tigers at autox.team.net> wrote:
>
>> Hello,
>> I?ve been wondering what Moss motors was going to do with their Sunbeam
>> parts. I sent the following email and got the following response. The
>> response comes first the original email is at the bottom.
>>
>> Hi James
>> As it stands at the moment.  We have not uncrated the inventory.  There
>> is no word from management as to whether or not these parts will be
>> retailed from us or sold of in bulk to another Sunbeam retailer.  Sorry I
>> cannot offer much more than that.  Cheers
>>
>> Dan Ciccone
>> Sales Professional
>> Moss Motors
>> 800-667-7872 extension 7453
>> cicconed at mossmotors.com
>>
>> On Tue, 28 Jun at 12:01 PM , JAMES ARMSTRONG <rollright at aol.com> wrote:
>> When are you going to start selling the Sunbeam parts that you obtained
>> when you purchased Victoria British?s inventory?
>>
>> Jim Armstrong
>> Rollright at aol.com
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Jun 28, 2022, at 2:53 PM, Moss Motors <moss.sales at info.mossmotors.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Club
>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__info.mossmotors.com_re-3Fl-3DD0I1u5xtqlIj93gr26IrITl4yar777I1u5lqnl-26s-3DNPFMJBGJHDBKIPJD&d=DwMFaQ&c=euGZstcaTDllvimEN8b7jXrwqOf-v5A_CdpgnVfiiMM&r=MZ8tsoS16BQACYgAaAvBNzRZyNf0JAZqROay7JeBP9U&m=8LBOlaNyW3ufqIuMwQuPpC6evSk6lJRW6I4xMZVNiiI&s=48B1l4H7WECBQ7VvbCZUDtweCv7C7WyZTkBoDDGItDY&e=>
>> Catalog Download
>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__info.mossmotors.com_re-3Fl-3DD0I1u5xtqlIj93gr26IsITl4yar777I1u5lqnl-26s-3DNPFMJBGJHDBKIPJD&d=DwMFaQ&c=euGZstcaTDllvimEN8b7jXrwqOf-v5A_CdpgnVfiiMM&r=MZ8tsoS16BQACYgAaAvBNzRZyNf0JAZqROay7JeBP9U&m=8LBOlaNyW3ufqIuMwQuPpC6evSk6lJRW6I4xMZVNiiI&s=svExDrWsbPZno6wFfjq0R4q4Owp_NmvWYiKyyCpoq9U&e=>
>>
>> 93282:1089000
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> tigers at autox.team.net
>>
>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers
>> http://autox.team.net/archive
>>
>> Unsubscribe:
>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/jay.laifman at gmail.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>
> tigers at autox.team.net
>
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers
> http://autox.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/jbbrown1980 at gmail.com
>
>
>
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From atwittsend at verizon.net  Fri Jul  1 10:47:36 2022
From: atwittsend at verizon.net (Tom Witt)
Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2022 09:47:36 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] Moss motors plans for Sunbeam Parts
In-Reply-To: <CAKb_wfnVS23CWSYJVavx0dd+dHi3Vs-jp-jxA=n5+SUZXNfK5w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAAjp1z7ZuT-xbwKBe2sJvFaFCavP35QZQgkTK6AmHRQ_eS9y6A@mail.gmail.com>
 <88748171-6DA7-4509-A047-6B470C10887B@aol.com>
 <CAKb_wfnVS23CWSYJVavx0dd+dHi3Vs-jp-jxA=n5+SUZXNfK5w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <a2530f96-65a7-17f0-5f20-d13580d0895e@verizon.net>

YES! Windshields for older cars are getting to be an (expensive) 
problem. Most manufactures want a specific run number to be practical 
for them to make. And few suppliers want to be stockpiling large, 
fragile items that are not high sales volume. For years there was a 
surplus of old glass that often went cheap to get rid of a supply. 
Unfortunately that is changing. if you have a early Mustang , Tri-5 
Chevy etc. you are probably OK. But for more obscure cars the situation 
is changing.

On 7/1/2022 8:51 AM, Joe Brown via Tigers wrote:
> I hope somebody at least gets the windshields.
>
> On Fri, Jul 1, 2022 at 10:31 AM JAMES ARMSTRONG via Tigers 
> <tigers at autox.team.net> wrote:
>
>     Which means, no news
>     Jim A
>
>     Sent from my iPhone
>
>>     On Jul 1, 2022, at 10:54 AM, Jay Laifman <jay.laifman at gmail.com>
>>     wrote:
>>
>>     ?
>>     I think they may have an over inflated sense of value of the
>>     Sunbeam stuff that VB had.
>>
>>     On Fri, Jul 1, 2022 at 7:08 AM JAMES ARMSTRONG via Tigers
>>     <tigers at autox.team.net> wrote:
>>
>>         Hello,
>>         I?ve been wondering what Moss motors was going to do with
>>         their Sunbeam parts. I sent the following email and got the
>>         following response. The response comes first the original
>>         email is at the bottom.
>>
>>         Hi James
>>         As it stands at the moment. We have not uncrated the
>>         inventory.? There is no word from management as to whether or
>>         not these parts will be retailed from us or sold of in bulk
>>         to another Sunbeam retailer.? Sorry I cannot offer much more
>>         than that.? Cheers
>>
>>         Dan Ciccone
>>         Sales Professional
>>         Moss Motors
>>         800-667-7872 extension 7453
>>         cicconed at mossmotors.com
>>
>>             On Tue, 28 Jun at 12:01 PM , JAMES ARMSTRONG
>>             <rollright at aol.com> wrote:
>>             When are you going to start selling the Sunbeam parts
>>             that you obtained when you purchased Victoria British?s
>>             inventory?
>>
>>             Jim Armstrong
>>             Rollright at aol.com
>>
>>             Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>                 On Jun 28, 2022, at 2:53 PM, Moss Motors
>>                 <moss.sales at info.mossmotors.com> wrote:
>>
>>                 Club
>>                 <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__info.mossmotors.com_re-3Fl-3DD0I1u5xtqlIj93gr26IrITl4yar777I1u5lqnl-26s-3DNPFMJBGJHDBKIPJD&d=DwMFaQ&c=euGZstcaTDllvimEN8b7jXrwqOf-v5A_CdpgnVfiiMM&r=MZ8tsoS16BQACYgAaAvBNzRZyNf0JAZqROay7JeBP9U&m=8LBOlaNyW3ufqIuMwQuPpC6evSk6lJRW6I4xMZVNiiI&s=48B1l4H7WECBQ7VvbCZUDtweCv7C7WyZTkBoDDGItDY&e=>
>>                 Catalog Download
>>                 <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__info.mossmotors.com_re-3Fl-3DD0I1u5xtqlIj93gr26IsITl4yar777I1u5lqnl-26s-3DNPFMJBGJHDBKIPJD&d=DwMFaQ&c=euGZstcaTDllvimEN8b7jXrwqOf-v5A_CdpgnVfiiMM&r=MZ8tsoS16BQACYgAaAvBNzRZyNf0JAZqROay7JeBP9U&m=8LBOlaNyW3ufqIuMwQuPpC6evSk6lJRW6I4xMZVNiiI&s=svExDrWsbPZno6wFfjq0R4q4Owp_NmvWYiKyyCpoq9U&e=>
>>
>>         93282:1089000
>>
>>
>>         _______________________________________________
>>
>>         tigers at autox.team.net
>>
>>         Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>         Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers
>>         http://autox.team.net/archive
>>
>>         Unsubscribe:
>>         http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/jay.laifman at gmail.com
>>
>>
>     _______________________________________________
>
>     tigers at autox.team.net
>
>     Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>     Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers
>     http://autox.team.net/archive
>
>     Unsubscribe:
>     http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/jbbrown1980 at gmail.com
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> tigers at autox.team.net
>
> Donate:http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive:http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers  http://autox.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe:http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/atwittsend at verizon.net
>
>
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From jbbrown1980 at gmail.com  Fri Jul  1 11:03:26 2022
From: jbbrown1980 at gmail.com (Joe Brown)
Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2022 12:03:26 -0500
Subject: [Tigers] Washer Bottle Bracket Blue
In-Reply-To: <001301d88d5d$927b51e0$b771f5a0$@bluefrog.com>
References: <1226602056.2409401.1656684209210@verizon.net>
 <001301d88d5d$927b51e0$b771f5a0$@bluefrog.com>
Message-ID: <CAKb_wf=WoyBpH0YQj4XUcLd0S=ZqSP=+nUENY+MjW5ubFn4BrQ@mail.gmail.com>

I tried several different blues that I could find and finally just settled
on Dupli-Color engine enamel "Old Ford Blue".  It was fairly close and I
figured I wasn't ever going to enter any concours.

Regards,
Joe Brown

On Fri, Jul 1, 2022 at 11:04 AM Ron Fraser <rfraser at bluefrog.com> wrote:

> Jim
>
>                 I believe French Blue is close.
>
>
>
> I think I painted my bracket with  71 Datsun 510 blue because I had some
> of that paint.
>
>
>
> Some have used Ford blue engine paint.
>
>
>
> Ron Fraser
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Tigers <tigers-bounces at autox.team.net> *On Behalf Of *Jim
> D'Amelio via Tigers
> *Sent:* Friday, July 01, 2022 10:03 AM
> *To:* 'Tiger's List' <tigers at autox.team.net>
> *Subject:* [Tigers] Washer Bottle Bracket Blue
>
>
>
> Does anyone know a good matching paint for the Tudor Blue on the bracket?
>
>
>
> Jim D
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Sent from my Galaxy
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> tigers at autox.team.net
>
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers
> http://autox.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/jbbrown1980 at gmail.com
>
>
>
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From jimdamelio at verizon.net  Fri Jul  1 11:30:04 2022
From: jimdamelio at verizon.net (Jim D'Amelio)
Date: Fri, 01 Jul 2022 13:30:04 -0400
Subject: [Tigers] Washer Bottle Bracket Blue
In-Reply-To: <CAKb_wf=WoyBpH0YQj4XUcLd0S=ZqSP=+nUENY+MjW5ubFn4BrQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1730013664.3006856.1656696609347@verizon.net>

I was leaning towards Ford engine paint.Jim DSent from my Galaxy
-------- Original message --------From: Joe Brown <jbbrown1980 at gmail.com> Date: 7/1/22  1:03 PM  (GMT-05:00) To: Ron Fraser <rfraser at bluefrog.com> Cc: Jim D'Amelio <jimdamelio at verizon.net>, Tigers Den <tigers at autox.team.net> Subject: Re: [Tigers] Washer Bottle Bracket Blue I tried several different blues that I could find and finally just settled on Dupli-Color engine enamel "Old Ford Blue".? It was fairly close and I figured I wasn't ever going to enter any concours.Regards,Joe BrownOn Fri, Jul 1, 2022 at 11:04 AM Ron Fraser <rfraser at bluefrog.com> wrote:Jim??????????????? I believe French Blue is close.?I think I painted my bracket with ?71 Datsun 510 blue because I had some of that paint.?Some have used Ford blue engine paint.?Ron Fraser???From: Tigers <tigers-bounces at autox.team.net> On Behalf Of Jim D'Amelio via TigersSent: Friday, July 01, 2022 10:03 AMTo: 'Tiger's List' <tigers at autox.teamnet>Subject: [Tigers] Washer Bottle Bracket Blue?Does anyone know a good matching paint for the Tudor Blue on the bracket??Jim D???Sent from my Galaxy?_______________________________________________

tigers at autox.team.net

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From jliny5 at cox.net  Fri Jul  1 11:44:55 2022
From: jliny5 at cox.net (James Lindner)
Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2022 13:44:55 -0400
Subject: [Tigers] Washer Bottle Bracket Blue
In-Reply-To: <CAKb_wf=WoyBpH0YQj4XUcLd0S=ZqSP=+nUENY+MjW5ubFn4BrQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKb_wf=WoyBpH0YQj4XUcLd0S=ZqSP=+nUENY+MjW5ubFn4BrQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <EECD6C5E-C1F1-44A0-93D5-497F65F2716E@cox.net>

I used the same as Joe. See photo. I have been in several concours since and have not lost any points because of this item.

Jim



Sent from my iPad

> On Jul 1, 2022, at 1:28 PM, Joe Brown <jbbrown1980 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> ?
> I tried several different blues that I could find and finally just settled on Dupli-Color engine enamel "Old Ford Blue".  It was fairly close and I figured I wasn't ever going to enter any concours.
> 
> Regards,
> Joe Brown
> 
>> On Fri, Jul 1, 2022 at 11:04 AM Ron Fraser <rfraser at bluefrog.com> wrote:
>> Jim
>> 
>>                 I believe French Blue is close.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> I think I painted my bracket with  71 Datsun 510 blue because I had some of that paint.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Some have used Ford blue engine paint.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Ron Fraser
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> From: Tigers <tigers-bounces at autox.team.net> On Behalf Of Jim D'Amelio via Tigers
>> Sent: Friday, July 01, 2022 10:03 AM
>> To: 'Tiger's List' <tigers at autox.team.net>
>> Subject: [Tigers] Washer Bottle Bracket Blue
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Does anyone know a good matching paint for the Tudor Blue on the bracket?
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Jim D
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Sent from my Galaxy
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> 
>> tigers at autox.team.net
>> 
>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive
>> 
>> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/jbbrown1980 at gmail.com
>> 
>> 
> _______________________________________________
> 
> tigers at autox.team.net
> 
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive
> 
> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/jliny5 at cox.net
> 
> 
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From cmeinel464 at aol.com  Fri Jul  1 15:06:08 2022
From: cmeinel464 at aol.com (Curt & Patti Meinel)
Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2022 21:06:08 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Tigers] Moss motors plans for Sunbeam Parts
In-Reply-To: <CAAjp1z7ZuT-xbwKBe2sJvFaFCavP35QZQgkTK6AmHRQ_eS9y6A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <6B83C527-C4AC-41E2-B080-8920A8893E9F.ref@aol.com>
 <6B83C527-C4AC-41E2-B080-8920A8893E9F@aol.com>
 <CAAjp1z7ZuT-xbwKBe2sJvFaFCavP35QZQgkTK6AmHRQ_eS9y6A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <808104719.979384.1656709568618@mail.yahoo.com>

Most of Vicshit parts were crap. We bought some items to see how they worked and dumped most of it. Curt Classic Sunbeam?

Sent from the all new AOL app for Android 
 
  On Fri, Jul 1, 2022 at 11:07 AM, Jay Laifman<jay.laifman at gmail.com> wrote:   _______________________________________________

tigers at autox.team.net

Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive

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From ktisdale at ix.netcom.com  Fri Jul  1 15:33:44 2022
From: ktisdale at ix.netcom.com (Ken Tisdale)
Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2022 15:33:44 -0600
Subject: [Tigers] Moss motors plans for Sunbeam Parts
In-Reply-To: <808104719.979384.1656709568618@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <6B83C527-C4AC-41E2-B080-8920A8893E9F.ref@aol.com>
 <6B83C527-C4AC-41E2-B080-8920A8893E9F@aol.com>
 <CAAjp1z7ZuT-xbwKBe2sJvFaFCavP35QZQgkTK6AmHRQ_eS9y6A@mail.gmail.com>
 <808104719.979384.1656709568618@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <620ed3d7-52f2-c802-daf2-7c286047d221@ix.netcom.com>

You are spot on. Would like to see the windshield inventory,,,

Ken

On 7/1/2022 3:06 PM, Curt & Patti Meinel via Tigers wrote:
> Most of Vicshit parts were crap. We bought some items to see how they 
> worked and dumped most of it. Curt Classic Sunbeam
>
> Sent from the all new AOL app for Android 
> <https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.aol.mobile.aolapp>
>
>     On Fri, Jul 1, 2022 at 11:07 AM, Jay Laifman
>     <jay.laifman at gmail.com> wrote:
>     _______________________________________________
>
>     tigers at autox.team.net
>
>     Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>     Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers
>     http://autox.team.net/archive
>
>     Unsubscribe:
>     http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/cmeinel464 at aol.com
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> tigers at autox.team.net
>
> Donate:http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive:http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers  http://autox.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe:http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/ktisdale at ix.netcom.com
>
>
-- 
Ken Tisdale 303-807-5488
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From jay.laifman at gmail.com  Fri Jul  1 17:33:37 2022
From: jay.laifman at gmail.com (Jay)
Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2022 16:33:37 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] Moss motors plans for Sunbeam Parts
In-Reply-To: <808104719.979384.1656709568618@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <6B83C527-C4AC-41E2-B080-8920A8893E9F.ref@aol.com>
 <6B83C527-C4AC-41E2-B080-8920A8893E9F@aol.com>
 <CAAjp1z7ZuT-xbwKBe2sJvFaFCavP35QZQgkTK6AmHRQ_eS9y6A@mail.gmail.com>
 <808104719.979384.1656709568618@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <8B8D6175-38BA-4D06-A999-05B402751CFC@gmail.com>

Exactly!  I stockpiled a bunch of VB stuff while my car was being painted, etc. Then many months if not a year later, when I went to install it, that?s when I learned how bad it was.  And way too late to return.  So I ended up rebuying most of it from Rick (sorry Curt).  But that is also when I learned that Rick and Curt spent the time to source good stuff.  I never bought from VB again.  

I?m sure Moss has inquired with Rick and Curt to buy and if Moss had a correct understanding of the low value of what they have, Rick and Curt would already be selling it.



> On Jul 1, 2022, at 2:06 PM, Curt & Patti Meinel <cmeinel464 at aol.com> wrote:
> 
> Most of Vicshit parts were crap. We bought some items to see how they worked and dumped most of it. Curt Classic Sunbeam 
> 
> Sent from the all new AOL app for Android <https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.aol.mobile.aolapp>
> On Fri, Jul 1, 2022 at 11:07 AM, Jay Laifman
> <jay.laifman at gmail.com> wrote:
> _______________________________________________
> 
> tigers at autox.team.net <mailto:tigers at autox.team.net>
> 
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html <http://www.team.net/donate.html>
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers  <http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers>http://autox.team.net/archive <http://autox.team.net/archive>
> 
> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/cmeinel464 at aol.com <http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/cmeinel464 at aol.com>
> 
> 

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From jay.laifman at gmail.com  Fri Jul  1 22:16:05 2022
From: jay.laifman at gmail.com (Jay)
Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2022 21:16:05 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] Filling Gas with Today's Nozzles
Message-ID: <C0F07E63-D5A3-49C0-A300-69BB67EBD1C1@gmail.com>

Anyone else have difficulty?  It seems sometimes I can make it fill fine.  Other times, no matter what position I put it in, it either immediately clicks and shuts off, or it fills and overflows right out even though I just started filling.

I can?t seem to figure out what angle is best.  Sometimes I have to hold high, sometimes low, sometimes I need to lift the rubber boot up just a fraction.  Anyone have it figured out?

From douglasalyle at yahoo.com  Fri Jul  1 22:33:08 2022
From: douglasalyle at yahoo.com (Douglas Lyle)
Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2022 04:33:08 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Tigers] Filling Gas with Today's Nozzles
In-Reply-To: <C0F07E63-D5A3-49C0-A300-69BB67EBD1C1@gmail.com>
References: <C0F07E63-D5A3-49C0-A300-69BB67EBD1C1@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1115563801.411504.1656736388157@mail.yahoo.com>

 I have the best luck with it upside down.? 

    On Friday, July 1, 2022 at 09:21:24 PM PDT, Jay via Tigers <tigers at autox.team.net> wrote:  
 
 Anyone else have difficulty?? It seems sometimes I can make it fill fine.? Other times, no matter what position I put it in, it either immediately clicks and shuts off, or it fills and overflows right out even though I just started filling.

I can?t seem to figure out what angle is best.? Sometimes I have to hold high, sometimes low, sometimes I need to lift the rubber boot up just a fraction.? Anyone have it figured out?
_______________________________________________

tigers at autox.team.net

Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
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From mwood24020 at aol.com  Fri Jul  1 22:57:48 2022
From: mwood24020 at aol.com (Michael Wood)
Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2022 04:57:48 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Tigers] Filling Gas with Today's Nozzles
In-Reply-To: <C0F07E63-D5A3-49C0-A300-69BB67EBD1C1@gmail.com>
References: <C0F07E63-D5A3-49C0-A300-69BB67EBD1C1@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1757385943.667024.1656737868274@mail.yahoo.com>

I'm guessing you're in CA...those vapor recovery nozzles are a PIA. I now live in Bend, OR and have no issues, at all. Can't say the same when I was living in the SF Bay Area :)


-----Original Message-----
From: Jay via Tigers <tigers at autox.team.net>
To: Tiger's Den <tigers at autox.team.net>
Sent: Fri, Jul 1, 2022 9:31 pm
Subject: [Tigers] Filling Gas with Today's Nozzles

Anyone else have difficulty?? It seems sometimes I can make it fill fine.? Other times, no matter what position I put it in, it either immediately clicks and shuts off, or it fills and overflows right out even though I just started filling.

I can?t seem to figure out what angle is best.? Sometimes I have to hold high, sometimes low, sometimes I need to lift the rubber boot up just a fraction.? Anyone have it figured out?
_______________________________________________

tigers at autox.team.net

Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
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From garywinblad at comcast.net  Fri Jul  1 23:35:46 2022
From: garywinblad at comcast.net (Gary)
Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2022 22:35:46 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] Filling Gas with Today's Nozzles
In-Reply-To: <1115563801.411504.1656736388157@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <1115563801.411504.1656736388157@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20698E23-66D3-4A4B-B8A3-341D773A2087@comcast.net>

I do it right side up.  Put it all the way in but
pull the boot up slightly on one side.  Pull the
trigger just a little.  Takes forever, I come out
with cramps and dents but I hardly spill a
drop.
Gary


Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 1, 2022, at 9:57 PM, Douglas Lyle via Tigers <tigers at autox.team.net> wrote:
> 
> ?
> I have the best luck with it upside down.  
> 
> On Friday, July 1, 2022 at 09:21:24 PM PDT, Jay via Tigers <tigers at autox.team.net> wrote:
> 
> 
> Anyone else have difficulty?  It seems sometimes I can make it fill fine.  Other times, no matter what position I put it in, it either immediately clicks and shuts off, or it fills and overflows right out even though I just started filling.
> 
> I can?t seem to figure out what angle is best.  Sometimes I have to hold high, sometimes low, sometimes I need to lift the rubber boot up just a fraction.  Anyone have it figured out?
> _______________________________________________
> 
> tigers at autox.team.net
> 
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive
> 
> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/douglasalyle at yahoo.com
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 
> tigers at autox.team.net
> 
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive
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> 
> 
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From tym2 at comcast.net  Sat Jul  2 06:06:11 2022
From: tym2 at comcast.net (Dr. T. Y. McDowell)
Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2022 08:06:11 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Tigers] Evans Waterless Cooling
Message-ID: <330435248.1310662.1656763572024@connect.xfinity.com>

Is anyone out there in Tigerland using Evans Waterless Coolant?
It has a boiling point of 375 (F).  I'd like to hear from anyone who's using it as I'm considering it.

Thanks in advance,

Tym McDowell
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From bucktrippel at verizon.net  Sat Jul  2 07:59:52 2022
From: bucktrippel at verizon.net (Buck Trippel)
Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2022 06:59:52 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] Evans Waterless Cooling
In-Reply-To: <330435248.1310662.1656763572024@connect.xfinity.com>
References: <330435248.1310662.1656763572024@connect.xfinity.com>
Message-ID: <04ea01d88e1c$0112d6f0$033884d0$@verizon.net>

In August of the hot summer of 2019 (aren?t they all hot now?) I put Evans in a Tiger which has an excellent two row aluminum radiator in front of a rather stock 289. My wife and I put the Tiger through an almost 5-thousand mile road test by driving from Los Angeles to La Crosse via I80/I90 to attend the TEAE United and then Route 66 on the way home. Temperatures were frequently at 100 degrees. So it got quite a test.

 

The Evans did not boil but with hot outside air temperatures its inferior specific heat (to water) could not remove adequately remove the engine heat. 

 

The carb got so hot the fuel percolated (boiled) inside the bowls and the engine stalled lean. This weakness was exacerbated at altitudes above 4-thousand feet. In Pueblo, with OATs near 100 I ended up on the same AAA tow truck twice on the same day. I then gave up and reluctantly drained maybe half of the the costly coolant out, replacing it with plain water so I could get home. However the percolation reoccurred crossing the Mojave in the 115 degree August temps. At home I replaced the Evans with water, adding Water Wetter for corrosion protection. 

 

I don?t have the numbers off the top of my head but the specific heat (or ability to transfer heat) of water is 1.00 while Evans is something like .65 or only 2/3 that of water. For me, Evans just did not do the job. From my experience I?d say one would have to be exceptionally brave to use it, especially with a stock radiator system or with a more powerful engine which will place even more demand on the Tiger?s weak cooling system. (BTW in the Tiger we drove on that trip, we had removed the stock block under the carb that hot radiator fluid passes through which probably have made even more of a problem.)

 

Buck Trippel

Ps I wrote up some of this years ago and I believe it contained a more detailed account of Evans heating issues on the trip ? I think it was published in both the TEAE and CAT newletters.

 

 

From: Tigers <tigers-bounces at autox.team.net> On Behalf Of Dr. T. Y. McDowell
Sent: Saturday, July 2, 2022 5:06 AM
To: Tiger's List <tigers at autox.team.net>
Subject: [Tigers] Evans Waterless Cooling

 

Is anyone out there in Tigerland using Evans Waterless Coolant? 

It has a boiling point of 375 (F).  I'd like to hear from anyone who's using it as I'm considering it. 

 

Thanks in advance, 

 

Tym McDowell 

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From owain.lloyd at gmail.com  Sat Jul  2 08:29:17 2022
From: owain.lloyd at gmail.com (Owain Lloyd)
Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2022 16:29:17 +0200
Subject: [Tigers] Evans Waterless Cooling
In-Reply-To: <04ea01d88e1c$0112d6f0$033884d0$@verizon.net>
References: <330435248.1310662.1656763572024@connect.xfinity.com>
 <04ea01d88e1c$0112d6f0$033884d0$@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <CANE47iQLDVr=D_km8HR0ofZyQCG2soZ2fKYc2oBq9EpwUSgtoA@mail.gmail.com>

Yep.  I run in most cars with no problems but in the tiger with the 500hp
motor I needed every bit of efficiency possible so had to switch off even
back to water and antifreeze.  It worked sort of ok with the dale radiator
but then I switched to another brand radiator and it just couldn?t keep the
temps down.   Pretty sure it would be doable with an efficient and lower
power motor if all the other cooling problems were taken care of.

Il giorno sab 2 lug 2022 alle 16:05 Buck Trippel via Tigers <
tigers at autox.team.net> ha scritto:

> In August of the hot summer of 2019 (aren?t they all hot now?) I put Evans
> in a Tiger which has an excellent two row aluminum radiator in front of a
> rather stock 289. My wife and I put the Tiger through an almost 5-thousand
> mile road test by driving from Los Angeles to La Crosse via I80/I90 to
> attend the TEAE United and then Route 66 on the way home. Temperatures were
> frequently at 100 degrees. So it got quite a test.
>
>
>
> The Evans did not boil but with hot outside air temperatures its inferior
> specific heat (to water) could not remove adequately remove the engine
> heat.
>
>
>
> The carb got so hot the fuel percolated (boiled) inside the bowls and the
> engine stalled lean. This weakness was exacerbated at altitudes above
> 4-thousand feet. In Pueblo, with OATs near 100 I ended up on the same AAA
> tow truck twice on the same day. I then gave up and reluctantly drained
> maybe half of the the costly coolant out, replacing it with plain water so
> I could get home. However the percolation reoccurred crossing the Mojave in
> the 115 degree August temps. At home I replaced the Evans with water,
> adding Water Wetter for corrosion protection.
>
>
>
> I don?t have the numbers off the top of my head but the specific heat (or
> ability to transfer heat) of water is 1.00 while Evans is something like
> .65 or only 2/3 that of water. For me, Evans just did not do the job. From
> my experience I?d say one would have to be exceptionally brave to use it,
> especially with a stock radiator system or with a more powerful engine
> which will place even more demand on the Tiger?s weak cooling system. (BTW
> in the Tiger we drove on that trip, we had removed the stock block under
> the carb that hot radiator fluid passes through which probably have made
> even more of a problem.)
>
>
>
> Buck Trippel
>
> Ps I wrote up some of this years ago and I believe it contained a more
> detailed account of Evans heating issues on the trip ? I think it was
> published in both the TEAE and CAT newletters.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Tigers <tigers-bounces at autox.team.net> *On Behalf Of *Dr. T. Y.
> McDowell
> *Sent:* Saturday, July 2, 2022 5:06 AM
> *To:* Tiger's List <tigers at autox.team.net>
> *Subject:* [Tigers] Evans Waterless Cooling
>
>
>
> Is anyone out there in Tigerland using Evans Waterless Coolant?
>
> It has a boiling point of 375 (F).  I'd like to hear from anyone who's
> using it as I'm considering it.
>
>
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
>
>
> Tym McDowell
> _______________________________________________
>
> tigers at autox.team.net
>
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers
> http://autox.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/owain.lloyd at gmail.com
>
>
>
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From lpaulick1 at verizon.net  Sat Jul  2 09:35:56 2022
From: lpaulick1 at verizon.net (LARRY PAULICK)
Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2022 11:35:56 -0400
Subject: [Tigers] Evans Waterless Cooling
In-Reply-To: <CANE47iQLDVr=D_km8HR0ofZyQCG2soZ2fKYc2oBq9EpwUSgtoA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <330435248.1310662.1656763572024@connect.xfinity.com>
 <04ea01d88e1c$0112d6f0$033884d0$@verizon.net>
 <CANE47iQLDVr=D_km8HR0ofZyQCG2soZ2fKYc2oBq9EpwUSgtoA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8EE82D37-2D80-4774-8AAA-C9B6AF6C080E@verizon.net>

Another issue is aluminum versus brass radiators.  Aluminum radiators are lighter but  brass transfers heat more efficiently.


When I redid my tiger, I used a three row versus a stock two row brass retaining the top, bottom, and sides so that the fit was not affected.

Also if you're replacing or having overheating problems, a closed impeller type water pump is much more efficient. Some aftermarket companies sell them already set up this way, but you can buy just the impeller plate from Summit for a very low price and install it yourself. Pumping efficiency is greatly improved.

TEAE 
did a study many years ago on all aspects of cooling. This excellent engineering study is still applicable today and well worth reading, dispelling a lot of myths.


Another design problem with the tiger is that there is no lower portion of the fan shroud. As a result, hot air is removed from the radiator then goes down to the ground and circles back through the front of the radiator, at rest.


I know this for a fact since I did smoke test and watched the air recirculating.

I fabricated a lower fan shroud from sheet metal, and made a low cost plastic air dam that comes down about 4 inches, to help
 the flow of air through the radiator and continue towards the rear of the car while in motion.

Bottom line it all works and I don't overheat.

I have to laugh at the commentos who keeps saying that the V8 takes up so much space that that's why they overheat. Just look at today's cars and how they fill the engine bay and it becomes apparent this is another myth.

> On Jul 2, 2022, at 10:29 AM, Owain Lloyd <owain.lloyd at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Yep.  I run in most cars with no problems but in the tiger with the 500hp motor I needed every bit of efficiency possible so had to switch off even back to water and antifreeze.  It worked sort of ok with the dale radiator but then I switched to another brand radiator and it just couldn?t keep the temps down.   Pretty sure it would be doable with an efficient and lower power motor if all the other cooling problems were taken care of.
> 
> Il giorno sab 2 lug 2022 alle 16:05 Buck Trippel via Tigers <tigers at autox.team.net <mailto:tigers at autox.team.net>> ha scritto:
> In August of the hot summer of 2019 (aren?t they all hot now?) I put Evans in a Tiger which has an excellent two row aluminum radiator in front of a rather stock 289. My wife and I put the Tiger through an almost 5-thousand mile road test by driving from Los Angeles to La Crosse via I80/I90 to attend the TEAE United and then Route 66 on the way home. Temperatures were frequently at 100 degrees. So it got quite a test.
> 
>  
> 
> The Evans did not boil but with hot outside air temperatures its inferior specific heat (to water) could not remove adequately remove the engine heat. 
> 
>  
> 
> The carb got so hot the fuel percolated (boiled) inside the bowls and the engine stalled lean. This weakness was exacerbated at altitudes above 4-thousand feet. In Pueblo, with OATs near 100 I ended up on the same AAA tow truck twice on the same day. I then gave up and reluctantly drained maybe half of the the costly coolant out, replacing it with plain water so I could get home. However the percolation reoccurred crossing the Mojave in the 115 degree August temps. At home I replaced the Evans with water, adding Water Wetter for corrosion protection. 
> 
>  
> 
> I don?t have the numbers off the top of my head but the specific heat (or ability to transfer heat) of water is 1.00 while Evans is something like .65 or only 2/3 that of water. For me, Evans just did not do the job. From my experience I?d say one would have to be exceptionally brave to use it, especially with a stock radiator system or with a more powerful engine which will place even more demand on the Tiger?s weak cooling system. (BTW in the Tiger we drove on that trip, we had removed the stock block under the carb that hot radiator fluid passes through which probably have made even more of a problem.)
> 
>  
> 
> Buck Trippel
> 
> Ps I wrote up some of this years ago and I believe it contained a more detailed account of Evans heating issues on the trip ? I think it was published in both the TEAE and CAT newletters.
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> From: Tigers <tigers-bounces at autox.team.net <mailto:tigers-bounces at autox.team.net>> On Behalf Of Dr. T. Y. McDowell
> Sent: Saturday, July 2, 2022 5:06 AM
> To: Tiger's List <tigers at autox.team.net <mailto:tigers at autox.team.net>>
> Subject: [Tigers] Evans Waterless Cooling
> 
>  
> 
> Is anyone out there in Tigerland using Evans Waterless Coolant? 
> 
> It has a boiling point of 375 (F).  I'd like to hear from anyone who's using it as I'm considering it. 
> 
>  
> 
> Thanks in advance, 
> 
>  
> 
> Tym McDowell 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 
> tigers at autox.team.net <mailto:tigers at autox.team.net>
> 
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html <http://www.team.net/donate.html>
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers <http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers> http://autox.team.net/archive <http://autox.team.net/archive>
> 
> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/owain.lloyd at gmail.com <http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/owain.lloyd at gmail.com>
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 
> tigers at autox.team.net <mailto:tigers at autox.team.net>
> 
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html <http://www.team.net/donate.html>
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers <http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers> http://autox.team.net/archive <http://autox.team.net/archive>
> 
> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/lpaulick1 at verizon.net <http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/lpaulick1 at verizon.net>
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From owain.lloyd at gmail.com  Sat Jul  2 09:42:10 2022
From: owain.lloyd at gmail.com (Owain Lloyd)
Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2022 17:42:10 +0200
Subject: [Tigers] Evans Waterless Cooling
In-Reply-To: <8EE82D37-2D80-4774-8AAA-C9B6AF6C080E@verizon.net>
References: <330435248.1310662.1656763572024@connect.xfinity.com>
 <04ea01d88e1c$0112d6f0$033884d0$@verizon.net>
 <CANE47iQLDVr=D_km8HR0ofZyQCG2soZ2fKYc2oBq9EpwUSgtoA@mail.gmail.com>
 <8EE82D37-2D80-4774-8AAA-C9B6AF6C080E@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <CANE47iSsP0z1mN0ZkWfteaUqDrcORdJ9orCP_Trf3kd1cBOt2g@mail.gmail.com>

Assuming all those things are done, evans is still not quite up to the job
in my car.  Most of those cooling tricks are for slow moving car.  My car
ran too hot even at speed with evans and the less than perfect radiator.
As I said, with a better radiator or with water instead it is fine.

My reason for preferring brass is that it can be easily soldered.  I
struggled on for a long time with my brass radiator but eventually it was
just too stress fatigued and needed frequent repair.  If I could get a new
brass one I would certainly prefer that.

Il giorno sab 2 lug 2022 alle 17:36 LARRY PAULICK <lpaulick1 at verizon.net>
ha scritto:

> Another issue is aluminum versus brass radiators.  Aluminum radiators are
> lighter but  brass transfers heat more efficiently.
>
> When I redid my tiger, I used a three row versus a stock two row brass
> retaining the top, bottom, and sides so that the fit was not affected.
>
> Also if you're replacing or having overheating problems, a closed impeller
> type water pump is much more efficient. Some aftermarket companies sell
> them already set up this way, but you can buy just the impeller plate from
> Summit for a very low price and install it yourself. Pumping efficiency is
> greatly improved.
>
> TEAE did a study many years ago on all aspects of cooling. This excellent
> engineering study is still applicable today and well worth reading,
> dispelling a lot of myths.
>
> Another design problem with the tiger is that there is no lower portion of
> the fan shroud. As a result, hot air is removed from the radiator then goes
> down to the ground and circles back through the front of the radiator, at
> rest.
>
> I know this for a fact since I did smoke test and watched the air
> recirculating.
>
> I fabricated a lower fan shroud from sheet metal, and made a low cost
> plastic air dam that comes down about 4 inches, to help the flow of air
> through the radiator and continue towards the rear of the car while in
> motion.
>
> Bottom line it all works and I don't overheat.
>
> I have to laugh at the commentos who keeps saying that the V8 takes up so
> much space that that's why they overheat. Just look at today's cars and how
> they fill the engine bay and it becomes apparent this is another myth.
>
> On Jul 2, 2022, at 10:29 AM, Owain Lloyd <owain.lloyd at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Yep.  I run in most cars with no problems but in the tiger with the 500hp
> motor I needed every bit of efficiency possible so had to switch off even
> back to water and antifreeze.  It worked sort of ok with the dale radiator
> but then I switched to another brand radiator and it just couldn?t keep the
> temps down.   Pretty sure it would be doable with an efficient and lower
> power motor if all the other cooling problems were taken care of.
>
> Il giorno sab 2 lug 2022 alle 16:05 Buck Trippel via Tigers <
> tigers at autox.team.net> ha scritto:
>
>> In August of the hot summer of 2019 (aren?t they all hot now?) I put
>> Evans in a Tiger which has an excellent two row aluminum radiator in front
>> of a rather stock 289. My wife and I put the Tiger through an almost
>> 5-thousand mile road test by driving from Los Angeles to La Crosse via
>> I80/I90 to attend the TEAE United and then Route 66 on the way home.
>> Temperatures were frequently at 100 degrees. So it got quite a test.
>>
>>
>>
>> The Evans did not boil but with hot outside air temperatures its inferior
>> specific heat (to water) could not remove adequately remove the engine heat.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> The carb got so hot the fuel percolated (boiled) inside the bowls and the
>> engine stalled lean. This weakness was exacerbated at altitudes above
>> 4-thousand feet. In Pueblo, with OATs near 100 I ended up on the same AAA
>> tow truck twice on the same day. I then gave up and reluctantly drained
>> maybe half of the the costly coolant out, replacing it with plain water so
>> I could get home. However the percolation reoccurred crossing the Mojave in
>> the 115 degree August temps. At home I replaced the Evans with water,
>> adding Water Wetter for corrosion protection.
>>
>>
>>
>> I don?t have the numbers off the top of my head but the specific heat (or
>> ability to transfer heat) of water is 1.00 while Evans is something like
>> .65 or only 2/3 that of water. For me, Evans just did not do the job. From
>> my experience I?d say one would have to be exceptionally brave to use it,
>> especially with a stock radiator system or with a more powerful engine
>> which will place even more demand on the Tiger?s weak cooling system. (BTW
>> in the Tiger we drove on that trip, we had removed the stock block under
>> the carb that hot radiator fluid passes through which probably have made
>> even more of a problem.)
>>
>>
>>
>> Buck Trippel
>>
>> Ps I wrote up some of this years ago and I believe it contained a more
>> detailed account of Evans heating issues on the trip ? I think it was
>> published in both the TEAE and CAT newletters.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Tigers <tigers-bounces at autox.team.net> *On Behalf Of *Dr. T. Y.
>> McDowell
>> *Sent:* Saturday, July 2, 2022 5:06 AM
>> *To:* Tiger's List <tigers at autox.team.net>
>> *Subject:* [Tigers] Evans Waterless Cooling
>>
>>
>>
>> Is anyone out there in Tigerland using Evans Waterless Coolant?
>>
>> It has a boiling point of 375 (F).  I'd like to hear from anyone who's
>> using it as I'm considering it.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks in advance,
>>
>>
>>
>> Tym McDowell
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> tigers at autox.team.net
>>
>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers
>> http://autox.team.net/archive
>>
>> Unsubscribe:
>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/owain.lloyd at gmail.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>
> tigers at autox.team.net
>
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers
> http://autox.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/lpaulick1 at verizon.net
>
>
>
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From rollright at aol.com  Sat Jul  2 12:14:57 2022
From: rollright at aol.com (JAMES ARMSTRONG)
Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2022 14:14:57 -0400
Subject: [Tigers] Tigers Digest, Vol 15, Issue 218
In-Reply-To: <mailman.301.1656776176.24409.tigers@autox.team.net>
References: <mailman.301.1656776176.24409.tigers@autox.team.net>
Message-ID: <9FBF1F31-1CEE-43A7-9B6C-8EEB4A6AB4E8@aol.com>

Hello
I met a Canadian guy, I believe from Qu?bec at the 2000 TEAE United in Rockland Maine. He said he was fabricating Lower fan shrouds.  I stayed in touch, bought the device, had it installed on the Tiger and it works quite nicely.
My engine is a rebuilt 260 with a comp cam, Edelbrock F4B, PerTronics, and that?s it. A mild upgrade but the lower fan shroud does help. For really really hot days, I?ve got a Kenlow pusher fan and with everything I have no trouble




Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 2, 2022, at 12:05 PM, tigers-request at autox.team.net wrote:
> 
> ?Send Tigers mailing list submissions to
>    tigers at autox.team.net
> 
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>    http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
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> 
> You can reach the person managing the list at
>    tigers-owner at autox.team.net
> 
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Tigers digest..."
> 
> 
> Today's Topics:
> 
>   1. Re: Evans Waterless Cooling (Owain Lloyd)
>   2. Re: Evans Waterless Cooling (LARRY PAULICK)
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2022 16:29:17 +0200
> From: Owain Lloyd <owain.lloyd at gmail.com>
> To: Buck Trippel <bucktrippel at verizon.net>
> Cc: "Dr. T. Y. McDowell" <tym2 at comcast.net>, "Tiger's List"
>    <tigers at autox.team.net>
> Subject: Re: [Tigers] Evans Waterless Cooling
> Message-ID:
>    <CANE47iQLDVr=D_km8HR0ofZyQCG2soZ2fKYc2oBq9EpwUSgtoA at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> 
> Yep.  I run in most cars with no problems but in the tiger with the 500hp
> motor I needed every bit of efficiency possible so had to switch off even
> back to water and antifreeze.  It worked sort of ok with the dale radiator
> but then I switched to another brand radiator and it just couldn?t keep the
> temps down.   Pretty sure it would be doable with an efficient and lower
> power motor if all the other cooling problems were taken care of.
> 
> Il giorno sab 2 lug 2022 alle 16:05 Buck Trippel via Tigers <
> tigers at autox.team.net> ha scritto:
> 
>> In August of the hot summer of 2019 (aren?t they all hot now?) I put Evans
>> in a Tiger which has an excellent two row aluminum radiator in front of a
>> rather stock 289. My wife and I put the Tiger through an almost 5-thousand
>> mile road test by driving from Los Angeles to La Crosse via I80/I90 to
>> attend the TEAE United and then Route 66 on the way home. Temperatures were
>> frequently at 100 degrees. So it got quite a test.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> The Evans did not boil but with hot outside air temperatures its inferior
>> specific heat (to water) could not remove adequately remove the engine
>> heat.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> The carb got so hot the fuel percolated (boiled) inside the bowls and the
>> engine stalled lean. This weakness was exacerbated at altitudes above
>> 4-thousand feet. In Pueblo, with OATs near 100 I ended up on the same AAA
>> tow truck twice on the same day. I then gave up and reluctantly drained
>> maybe half of the the costly coolant out, replacing it with plain water so
>> I could get home. However the percolation reoccurred crossing the Mojave in
>> the 115 degree August temps. At home I replaced the Evans with water,
>> adding Water Wetter for corrosion protection.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> I don?t have the numbers off the top of my head but the specific heat (or
>> ability to transfer heat) of water is 1.00 while Evans is something like
>> .65 or only 2/3 that of water. For me, Evans just did not do the job. From
>> my experience I?d say one would have to be exceptionally brave to use it,
>> especially with a stock radiator system or with a more powerful engine
>> which will place even more demand on the Tiger?s weak cooling system. (BTW
>> in the Tiger we drove on that trip, we had removed the stock block under
>> the carb that hot radiator fluid passes through which probably have made
>> even more of a problem.)
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Buck Trippel
>> 
>> Ps I wrote up some of this years ago and I believe it contained a more
>> detailed account of Evans heating issues on the trip ? I think it was
>> published in both the TEAE and CAT newletters.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> *From:* Tigers <tigers-bounces at autox.team.net> *On Behalf Of *Dr. T. Y.
>> McDowell
>> *Sent:* Saturday, July 2, 2022 5:06 AM
>> *To:* Tiger's List <tigers at autox.team.net>
>> *Subject:* [Tigers] Evans Waterless Cooling
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Is anyone out there in Tigerland using Evans Waterless Coolant?
>> 
>> It has a boiling point of 375 (F).  I'd like to hear from anyone who's
>> using it as I'm considering it.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Thanks in advance,
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Tym McDowell
>> _______________________________________________
>> 
>> tigers at autox.team.net
>> 
>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers
>> http://autox.team.net/archive
>> 
>> Unsubscribe:
>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/owain.lloyd at gmail.com
>> 
>> 
>> 
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> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 2
> Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2022 11:35:56 -0400
> From: LARRY PAULICK <lpaulick1 at verizon.net>
> To: owain.lloyd at gmail.com
> Cc: Buck Trippel <bucktrippel at verizon.net>, "tigers at autox.team.net"
>    <tigers at autox.team.net>
> Subject: Re: [Tigers] Evans Waterless Cooling
> Message-ID: <8EE82D37-2D80-4774-8AAA-C9B6AF6C080E at verizon.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> 
> Another issue is aluminum versus brass radiators.  Aluminum radiators are lighter but  brass transfers heat more efficiently.
> 
> 
> When I redid my tiger, I used a three row versus a stock two row brass retaining the top, bottom, and sides so that the fit was not affected.
> 
> Also if you're replacing or having overheating problems, a closed impeller type water pump is much more efficient. Some aftermarket companies sell them already set up this way, but you can buy just the impeller plate from Summit for a very low price and install it yourself. Pumping efficiency is greatly improved.
> 
> TEAE 
> did a study many years ago on all aspects of cooling. This excellent engineering study is still applicable today and well worth reading, dispelling a lot of myths.
> 
> 
> Another design problem with the tiger is that there is no lower portion of the fan shroud. As a result, hot air is removed from the radiator then goes down to the ground and circles back through the front of the radiator, at rest.
> 
> 
> I know this for a fact since I did smoke test and watched the air recirculating.
> 
> I fabricated a lower fan shroud from sheet metal, and made a low cost plastic air dam that comes down about 4 inches, to help
> the flow of air through the radiator and continue towards the rear of the car while in motion.
> 
> Bottom line it all works and I don't overheat.
> 
> I have to laugh at the commentos who keeps saying that the V8 takes up so much space that that's why they overheat. Just look at today's cars and how they fill the engine bay and it becomes apparent this is another myth.
> 
>> On Jul 2, 2022, at 10:29 AM, Owain Lloyd <owain.lloyd at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Yep.  I run in most cars with no problems but in the tiger with the 500hp motor I needed every bit of efficiency possible so had to switch off even back to water and antifreeze.  It worked sort of ok with the dale radiator but then I switched to another brand radiator and it just couldn?t keep the temps down.   Pretty sure it would be doable with an efficient and lower power motor if all the other cooling problems were taken care of.
>> 
>> Il giorno sab 2 lug 2022 alle 16:05 Buck Trippel via Tigers <tigers at autox.team.net <mailto:tigers at autox.team.net>> ha scritto:
>> In August of the hot summer of 2019 (aren?t they all hot now?) I put Evans in a Tiger which has an excellent two row aluminum radiator in front of a rather stock 289. My wife and I put the Tiger through an almost 5-thousand mile road test by driving from Los Angeles to La Crosse via I80/I90 to attend the TEAE United and then Route 66 on the way home. Temperatures were frequently at 100 degrees. So it got quite a test.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> The Evans did not boil but with hot outside air temperatures its inferior specific heat (to water) could not remove adequately remove the engine heat. 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> The carb got so hot the fuel percolated (boiled) inside the bowls and the engine stalled lean. This weakness was exacerbated at altitudes above 4-thousand feet. In Pueblo, with OATs near 100 I ended up on the same AAA tow truck twice on the same day. I then gave up and reluctantly drained maybe half of the the costly coolant out, replacing it with plain water so I could get home. However the percolation reoccurred crossing the Mojave in the 115 degree August temps. At home I replaced the Evans with water, adding Water Wetter for corrosion protection. 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> I don?t have the numbers off the top of my head but the specific heat (or ability to transfer heat) of water is 1.00 while Evans is something like .65 or only 2/3 that of water. For me, Evans just did not do the job. From my experience I?d say one would have to be exceptionally brave to use it, especially with a stock radiator system or with a more powerful engine which will place even more demand on the Tiger?s weak cooling system. (BTW in the Tiger we drove on that trip, we had removed the stock block under the carb that hot radiator fluid passes through which probably have made even more of a problem.)
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Buck Trippel
>> 
>> Ps I wrote up some of this years ago and I believe it contained a more detailed account of Evans heating issues on the trip ? I think it was published in both the TEAE and CAT newletters.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> From: Tigers <tigers-bounces at autox.team.net <mailto:tigers-bounces at autox.team.net>> On Behalf Of Dr. T. Y. McDowell
>> Sent: Saturday, July 2, 2022 5:06 AM
>> To: Tiger's List <tigers at autox.team.net <mailto:tigers at autox.team.net>>
>> Subject: [Tigers] Evans Waterless Cooling
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Is anyone out there in Tigerland using Evans Waterless Coolant? 
>> 
>> It has a boiling point of 375 (F).  I'd like to hear from anyone who's using it as I'm considering it. 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Thanks in advance, 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Tym McDowell 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> 
>> tigers at autox.team.net <mailto:tigers at autox.team.net>
>> 
>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html <http://www.team.net/donate.html>
>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers <http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers> http://autox.team.net/archive <http://autox.team.net/archive>
>> 
>> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/owain.lloyd at gmail.com <http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/owain.lloyd at gmail.com>
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> 
>> tigers at autox.team.net <mailto:tigers at autox.team.net>
>> 
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> 
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> End of Tigers Digest, Vol 15, Issue 218
> ***************************************


From aballard at ix.netcom.com  Sat Jul  2 14:09:45 2022
From: aballard at ix.netcom.com (Allan Ballard)
Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2022 16:09:45 -0400
Subject: [Tigers] Tigers Digest, Vol 15, Issue 218
In-Reply-To: <9FBF1F31-1CEE-43A7-9B6C-8EEB4A6AB4E8@aol.com>
References: <mailman.301.1656776176.24409.tigers@autox.team.net>
 <9FBF1F31-1CEE-43A7-9B6C-8EEB4A6AB4E8@aol.com>
Message-ID: <4772483A-A69A-4484-BBB3-86147AF8DDC4@ix.netcom.com>

I would be interested in a lower fan shroud, if anybody is fabricating them.

I am using a stock radiator with a 5 bolt 289.

-Allan Ballard
Atlanta


> On Jul 2, 2022, at 2:14 PM, JAMES ARMSTRONG via Tigers <tigers at autox.team.net> wrote:
> 
> Hello
> I met a Canadian guy, I believe from Qu?bec at the 2000 TEAE United in Rockland Maine. He said he was fabricating Lower fan shrouds.  I stayed in touch, bought the device, had it installed on the Tiger and it works quite nicely.
> My engine is a rebuilt 260 with a comp cam, Edelbrock F4B, PerTronics, and that?s it. A mild upgrade but the lower fan shroud does help. For really really hot days, I?ve got a Kenlow pusher fan and with everything I have no trouble
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Jul 2, 2022, at 12:05 PM, tigers-request at autox.team.net wrote:
>> 
>> ?Send Tigers mailing list submissions to
>>   tigers at autox.team.net
>> 
>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>>   http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers
>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>>   tigers-request at autox.team.net
>> 
>> You can reach the person managing the list at
>>   tigers-owner at autox.team.net
>> 
>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>> than "Re: Contents of Tigers digest..."
>> 
>> 
>> Today's Topics:
>> 
>>  1. Re: Evans Waterless Cooling (Owain Lloyd)
>>  2. Re: Evans Waterless Cooling (LARRY PAULICK)
>> 
>> 
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> 
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2022 16:29:17 +0200
>> From: Owain Lloyd <owain.lloyd at gmail.com>
>> To: Buck Trippel <bucktrippel at verizon.net>
>> Cc: "Dr. T. Y. McDowell" <tym2 at comcast.net>, "Tiger's List"
>>   <tigers at autox.team.net>
>> Subject: Re: [Tigers] Evans Waterless Cooling
>> Message-ID:
>>   <CANE47iQLDVr=D_km8HR0ofZyQCG2soZ2fKYc2oBq9EpwUSgtoA at mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>> 
>> Yep.  I run in most cars with no problems but in the tiger with the 500hp
>> motor I needed every bit of efficiency possible so had to switch off even
>> back to water and antifreeze.  It worked sort of ok with the dale radiator
>> but then I switched to another brand radiator and it just couldn?t keep the
>> temps down.   Pretty sure it would be doable with an efficient and lower
>> power motor if all the other cooling problems were taken care of.
>> 
>> Il giorno sab 2 lug 2022 alle 16:05 Buck Trippel via Tigers <
>> tigers at autox.team.net> ha scritto:
>> 
>>> In August of the hot summer of 2019 (aren?t they all hot now?) I put Evans
>>> in a Tiger which has an excellent two row aluminum radiator in front of a
>>> rather stock 289. My wife and I put the Tiger through an almost 5-thousand
>>> mile road test by driving from Los Angeles to La Crosse via I80/I90 to
>>> attend the TEAE United and then Route 66 on the way home. Temperatures were
>>> frequently at 100 degrees. So it got quite a test.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> The Evans did not boil but with hot outside air temperatures its inferior
>>> specific heat (to water) could not remove adequately remove the engine
>>> heat.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> The carb got so hot the fuel percolated (boiled) inside the bowls and the
>>> engine stalled lean. This weakness was exacerbated at altitudes above
>>> 4-thousand feet. In Pueblo, with OATs near 100 I ended up on the same AAA
>>> tow truck twice on the same day. I then gave up and reluctantly drained
>>> maybe half of the the costly coolant out, replacing it with plain water so
>>> I could get home. However the percolation reoccurred crossing the Mojave in
>>> the 115 degree August temps. At home I replaced the Evans with water,
>>> adding Water Wetter for corrosion protection.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> I don?t have the numbers off the top of my head but the specific heat (or
>>> ability to transfer heat) of water is 1.00 while Evans is something like
>>> .65 or only 2/3 that of water. For me, Evans just did not do the job. From
>>> my experience I?d say one would have to be exceptionally brave to use it,
>>> especially with a stock radiator system or with a more powerful engine
>>> which will place even more demand on the Tiger?s weak cooling system. (BTW
>>> in the Tiger we drove on that trip, we had removed the stock block under
>>> the carb that hot radiator fluid passes through which probably have made
>>> even more of a problem.)
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Buck Trippel
>>> 
>>> Ps I wrote up some of this years ago and I believe it contained a more
>>> detailed account of Evans heating issues on the trip ? I think it was
>>> published in both the TEAE and CAT newletters.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> *From:* Tigers <tigers-bounces at autox.team.net> *On Behalf Of *Dr. T. Y.
>>> McDowell
>>> *Sent:* Saturday, July 2, 2022 5:06 AM
>>> *To:* Tiger's List <tigers at autox.team.net>
>>> *Subject:* [Tigers] Evans Waterless Cooling
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Is anyone out there in Tigerland using Evans Waterless Coolant?
>>> 
>>> It has a boiling point of 375 (F).  I'd like to hear from anyone who's
>>> using it as I'm considering it.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Thanks in advance,
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Tym McDowell
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> 
>>> tigers at autox.team.net
>>> 
>>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers
>>> http://autox.team.net/archive
>>> 
>>> Unsubscribe:
>>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/owain.lloyd at gmail.com
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
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>> 
>> ------------------------------
>> 
>> Message: 2
>> Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2022 11:35:56 -0400
>> From: LARRY PAULICK <lpaulick1 at verizon.net>
>> To: owain.lloyd at gmail.com
>> Cc: Buck Trippel <bucktrippel at verizon.net>, "tigers at autox.team.net"
>>   <tigers at autox.team.net>
>> Subject: Re: [Tigers] Evans Waterless Cooling
>> Message-ID: <8EE82D37-2D80-4774-8AAA-C9B6AF6C080E at verizon.net>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>> 
>> Another issue is aluminum versus brass radiators.  Aluminum radiators are lighter but  brass transfers heat more efficiently.
>> 
>> 
>> When I redid my tiger, I used a three row versus a stock two row brass retaining the top, bottom, and sides so that the fit was not affected.
>> 
>> Also if you're replacing or having overheating problems, a closed impeller type water pump is much more efficient. Some aftermarket companies sell them already set up this way, but you can buy just the impeller plate from Summit for a very low price and install it yourself. Pumping efficiency is greatly improved.
>> 
>> TEAE 
>> did a study many years ago on all aspects of cooling. This excellent engineering study is still applicable today and well worth reading, dispelling a lot of myths.
>> 
>> 
>> Another design problem with the tiger is that there is no lower portion of the fan shroud. As a result, hot air is removed from the radiator then goes down to the ground and circles back through the front of the radiator, at rest.
>> 
>> 
>> I know this for a fact since I did smoke test and watched the air recirculating.
>> 
>> I fabricated a lower fan shroud from sheet metal, and made a low cost plastic air dam that comes down about 4 inches, to help
>> the flow of air through the radiator and continue towards the rear of the car while in motion.
>> 
>> Bottom line it all works and I don't overheat.
>> 
>> I have to laugh at the commentos who keeps saying that the V8 takes up so much space that that's why they overheat. Just look at today's cars and how they fill the engine bay and it becomes apparent this is another myth.
>> 
>>> On Jul 2, 2022, at 10:29 AM, Owain Lloyd <owain.lloyd at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Yep.  I run in most cars with no problems but in the tiger with the 500hp motor I needed every bit of efficiency possible so had to switch off even back to water and antifreeze.  It worked sort of ok with the dale radiator but then I switched to another brand radiator and it just couldn?t keep the temps down.   Pretty sure it would be doable with an efficient and lower power motor if all the other cooling problems were taken care of.
>>> 
>>> Il giorno sab 2 lug 2022 alle 16:05 Buck Trippel via Tigers <tigers at autox.team.net <mailto:tigers at autox.team.net>> ha scritto:
>>> In August of the hot summer of 2019 (aren?t they all hot now?) I put Evans in a Tiger which has an excellent two row aluminum radiator in front of a rather stock 289. My wife and I put the Tiger through an almost 5-thousand mile road test by driving from Los Angeles to La Crosse via I80/I90 to attend the TEAE United and then Route 66 on the way home. Temperatures were frequently at 100 degrees. So it got quite a test.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> The Evans did not boil but with hot outside air temperatures its inferior specific heat (to water) could not remove adequately remove the engine heat. 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> The carb got so hot the fuel percolated (boiled) inside the bowls and the engine stalled lean. This weakness was exacerbated at altitudes above 4-thousand feet. In Pueblo, with OATs near 100 I ended up on the same AAA tow truck twice on the same day. I then gave up and reluctantly drained maybe half of the the costly coolant out, replacing it with plain water so I could get home. However the percolation reoccurred crossing the Mojave in the 115 degree August temps. At home I replaced the Evans with water, adding Water Wetter for corrosion protection. 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> I don?t have the numbers off the top of my head but the specific heat (or ability to transfer heat) of water is 1.00 while Evans is something like .65 or only 2/3 that of water. For me, Evans just did not do the job. From my experience I?d say one would have to be exceptionally brave to use it, especially with a stock radiator system or with a more powerful engine which will place even more demand on the Tiger?s weak cooling system. (BTW in the Tiger we drove on that trip, we had removed the stock block under the carb that hot radiator fluid passes through which probably have made even more of a problem.)
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Buck Trippel
>>> 
>>> Ps I wrote up some of this years ago and I believe it contained a more detailed account of Evans heating issues on the trip ? I think it was published in both the TEAE and CAT newletters.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> From: Tigers <tigers-bounces at autox.team.net <mailto:tigers-bounces at autox.team.net>> On Behalf Of Dr. T. Y. McDowell
>>> Sent: Saturday, July 2, 2022 5:06 AM
>>> To: Tiger's List <tigers at autox.team.net <mailto:tigers at autox.team.net>>
>>> Subject: [Tigers] Evans Waterless Cooling
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Is anyone out there in Tigerland using Evans Waterless Coolant? 
>>> 
>>> It has a boiling point of 375 (F).  I'd like to hear from anyone who's using it as I'm considering it. 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Thanks in advance, 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Tym McDowell 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> 
>>> tigers at autox.team.net <mailto:tigers at autox.team.net>
>>> 
>>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html <http://www.team.net/donate.html>
>>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers <http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers> http://autox.team.net/archive <http://autox.team.net/archive>
>>> 
>>> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/owain.lloyd at gmail.com <http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/owain.lloyd at gmail.com>
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> 
>>> tigers at autox.team.net <mailto:tigers at autox.team.net>
>>> 
>>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html <http://www.team.net/donate.html>
>>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers <http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers> http://autox.team.net/archive <http://autox.team.net/archive>
>>> 
>>> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/lpaulick1 at verizon.net <http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/lpaulick1 at verizon.net>
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>> _______________________________________________
>> Tigers mailing list
>> Tigers at autox.team.net
>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers
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>> ------------------------------
>> 
>> End of Tigers Digest, Vol 15, Issue 218
>> ***************************************
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 
> tigers at autox.team.net
> 
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive
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> 
> 


From bucktrippel at verizon.net  Sat Jul  2 14:13:46 2022
From: bucktrippel at verizon.net (Buck Trippel)
Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2022 13:13:46 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] Evans Waterless Cooling
In-Reply-To: <CANE47iSsP0z1mN0ZkWfteaUqDrcORdJ9orCP_Trf3kd1cBOt2g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <330435248.1310662.1656763572024@connect.xfinity.com>
 <04ea01d88e1c$0112d6f0$033884d0$@verizon.net>
 <CANE47iQLDVr=D_km8HR0ofZyQCG2soZ2fKYc2oBq9EpwUSgtoA@mail.gmail.com>
 <8EE82D37-2D80-4774-8AAA-C9B6AF6C080E@verizon.net>
 <CANE47iSsP0z1mN0ZkWfteaUqDrcORdJ9orCP_Trf3kd1cBOt2g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <0d2f01d88e50$3cc65b70$b6531250$@verizon.net>

Owain, have you encountered either high outside air temps or high altitudes when using Evans in your Tiger?

 

Buck

 

From: Owain Lloyd <owain.lloyd at gmail.com> 
Sent: Saturday, July 2, 2022 8:42 AM
To: LARRY PAULICK <lpaulick1 at verizon.net>
Cc: Buck Trippel <bucktrippel at verizon.net>; tigers at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Evans Waterless Cooling

 

Assuming all those things are done, evans is still not quite up to the job in my car.  Most of those cooling tricks are for slow moving car.  My car ran too hot even at speed with evans and the less than perfect radiator.  As I said, with a better radiator or with water instead it is fine.

 

My reason for preferring brass is that it can be easily soldered.  I struggled on for a long time with my brass radiator but eventually it was just too stress fatigued and needed frequent repair.  If I could get a new brass one I would certainly prefer that.

 

Il giorno sab 2 lug 2022 alle 17:36 LARRY PAULICK <lpaulick1 at verizon.net <mailto:lpaulick1 at verizon.net> > ha scritto:

Another issue is aluminum versus brass radiators.  Aluminum radiators are lighter but  brass transfers heat more efficiently.

 

When I redid my tiger, I used a three row versus a stock two row brass retaining the top, bottom, and sides so that the fit was not affected.

 

Also if you're replacing or having overheating problems, a closed impeller type water pump is much more efficient. Some aftermarket companies sell them already set up this way, but you can buy just the impeller plate from Summit for a very low price and install it yourself. Pumping efficiency is greatly improved.

 

TEAE did a study many years ago on all aspects of cooling. This excellent engineering study is still applicable today and well worth reading, dispelling a lot of myths.

 

Another design problem with the tiger is that there is no lower portion of the fan shroud. As a result, hot air is removed from the radiator then goes down to the ground and circles back through the front of the radiator, at rest.

 

I know this for a fact since I did smoke test and watched the air recirculating.

 

I fabricated a lower fan shroud from sheet metal, and made a low cost plastic air dam that comes down about 4 inches, to help the flow of air through the radiator and continue towards the rear of the car while in motion.

 

Bottom line it all works and I don't overheat.

 

I have to laugh at the commentos who keeps saying that the V8 takes up so much space that that's why they overheat. Just look at today's cars and how they fill the engine bay and it becomes apparent this is another myth.





On Jul 2, 2022, at 10:29 AM, Owain Lloyd <owain.lloyd at gmail.com <mailto:owain.lloyd at gmail.com> > wrote:

 

Yep.  I run in most cars with no problems but in the tiger with the 500hp motor I needed every bit of efficiency possible so had to switch off even back to water and antifreeze.  It worked sort of ok with the dale radiator but then I switched to another brand radiator and it just couldn?t keep the temps down.   Pretty sure it would be doable with an efficient and lower power motor if all the other cooling problems were taken care of.

 

Il giorno sab 2 lug 2022 alle 16:05 Buck Trippel via Tigers <tigers at autox.team.net <mailto:tigers at autox.team.net> > ha scritto:

In August of the hot summer of 2019 (aren?t they all hot now?) I put Evans in a Tiger which has an excellent two row aluminum radiator in front of a rather stock 289. My wife and I put the Tiger through an almost 5-thousand mile road test by driving from Los Angeles to La Crosse via I80/I90 to attend the TEAE United and then Route 66 on the way home. Temperatures were frequently at 100 degrees. So it got quite a test.

 

The Evans did not boil but with hot outside air temperatures its inferior specific heat (to water) could not remove adequately remove the engine heat. 

 

The carb got so hot the fuel percolated (boiled) inside the bowls and the engine stalled lean. This weakness was exacerbated at altitudes above 4-thousand feet. In Pueblo, with OATs near 100 I ended up on the same AAA tow truck twice on the same day. I then gave up and reluctantly drained maybe half of the the costly coolant out, replacing it with plain water so I could get home. However the percolation reoccurred crossing the Mojave in the 115 degree August temps. At home I replaced the Evans with water, adding Water Wetter for corrosion protection. 

 

I don?t have the numbers off the top of my head but the specific heat (or ability to transfer heat) of water is 1.00 while Evans is something like .65 or only 2/3 that of water. For me, Evans just did not do the job. From my experience I?d say one would have to be exceptionally brave to use it, especially with a stock radiator system or with a more powerful engine which will place even more demand on the Tiger?s weak cooling system. (BTW in the Tiger we drove on that trip, we had removed the stock block under the carb that hot radiator fluid passes through which probably have made even more of a problem.)

 

Buck Trippel

Ps I wrote up some of this years ago and I believe it contained a more detailed account of Evans heating issues on the trip ? I think it was published in both the TEAE and CAT newletters.

 

 

From: Tigers <tigers-bounces at autox.team.net <mailto:tigers-bounces at autox.team.net> > On Behalf Of Dr. T. Y. McDowell
Sent: Saturday, July 2, 2022 5:06 AM
To: Tiger's List <tigers at autox.team.net <mailto:tigers at autox.team.net> >
Subject: [Tigers] Evans Waterless Cooling

 

Is anyone out there in Tigerland using Evans Waterless Coolant? 

It has a boiling point of 375 (F).  I'd like to hear from anyone who's using it as I'm considering it. 

 

Thanks in advance, 

 

Tym McDowell 

_______________________________________________

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From jimdamelio at verizon.net  Sat Jul  2 15:10:10 2022
From: jimdamelio at verizon.net (Jim D'Amelio)
Date: Sat, 02 Jul 2022 17:10:10 -0400
Subject: [Tigers] Tigers Digest, Vol 15, Issue 218
In-Reply-To: <9FBF1F31-1CEE-43A7-9B6C-8EEB4A6AB4E8@aol.com>
Message-ID: <556932685.2580126.1656796213542@verizon.net>

James,??Would you happen to have any pictures of the lower shroud?Jim DSent from my Galaxy
-------- Original message --------From: JAMES ARMSTRONG via Tigers <tigers at autox.team.net> Date: 7/2/22  3:14 PM  (GMT-05:00) To: tigers at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tigers Digest, Vol 15, Issue 218 HelloI met a Canadian guy, I believe from Qu?bec at the 2000 TEAE United in Rockland Maine. He said he was fabricating Lower fan shrouds.? I stayed in touch, bought the device, had it installed on the Tiger and it works quite nicely.My engine is a rebuilt 260 with a comp cam, Edelbrock F4B, PerTronics, and that?s it. A mild upgrade but the lower fan shroud does help. For really really hot days, I?ve got a Kenlow pusher fan and with everything I have no troubleSent from my iPhone> On Jul 2, 2022, at 12:05 PM, tigers-request at autox.team.net wrote:> > ?Send Tigers mailing list submissions to>??? tigers at autox.team.net> > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit>??? http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to>??? tigers-request at autox.team.net> > You can reach the person managing the list at>??? tigers-owner at autox.team.net> > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific> than "Re: Contents of Tigers digest..."> > > Today's Topics:> >?? 1. Re: Evans Waterless Cooling (Owain Lloyd)>?? 2. Re: Evans Waterless Cooling (LARRY PAULICK)> > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------> > Message: 1> Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2022 16:29:17 +0200> From: Owain Lloyd <owain.lloyd at gmail.com>> To: Buck Trippel <bucktrippel at verizon.net>> Cc: "Dr. T. Y. McDowell" <tym2 at comcast.net>, "Tiger's List">??? <tigers at autox.team.net>> Subject: Re: [Tigers] Evans Waterless Cooling> Message-ID:>??? <CANE47iQLDVr=D_km8HR0ofZyQCG2soZ2fKYc2oBq9EpwUSgtoA at mail.gmail.com>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"> > Yep.? I run in most cars with no problems but in the tiger with the 500hp> motor I needed every bit of efficiency possible so had to switch off even> back to water and antifreeze.? It worked sort of ok with the dale radiator> but then I switched to another brand radiator and it just couldn?t keep the> temps down.?? Pretty sure it would be doable with an efficient and lower> power motor if all the other cooling problems were taken care of.> > Il giorno sab 2 lug 2022 alle 16:05 Buck Trippel via Tigers <> tigers at autox.team.net> ha scritto:> >> In August of the hot summer of 2019 (aren?t they all hot now?) I put Evans>> in a Tiger which has an excellent two row aluminum radiator in front of a>> rather stock 289. My wife and I put the Tiger through an almost 5-thousand>> mile road test by driving from Los Angeles to La Crosse via I80/I90 to>> attend the TEAE United and then Route 66 on the way home. Temperatures were>> frequently at 100 degrees. So it got quite a test.>> >> >> >> The Evans did not boil but with hot outside air temperatures its inferior>> specific heat (to water) could not remove adequately remove the engine>> heat.>> >> >> >> The carb got so hot the fuel percolated (boiled) inside the bowls and the>> engine stalled lean. This weakness was exacerbated at altitudes above>> 4-thousand feet. In Pueblo, with OATs near 100 I ended up on the same AAA>> tow truck twice on the same day. I then gave up and reluctantly drained>> maybe half of the the costly coolant out, replacing it with plain water so>> I could get home. However the percolation reoccurred crossing the Mojave in>> the 115 degree August temps. At home I replaced the Evans with water,>> adding Water Wetter for corrosion protection.>> >> >> >> I don?t have the numbers off the top of my head but the specific heat (or>> ability to transfer heat) of water is 1.00 while Evans is something like>> .65 or only 2/3 that of water. For me, Evans just did not do the job. From>> my experience I?d say one would have to be exceptionally brave to use it,>> especially with a stock radiator system or with a more powerful engine>> which will place even more demand on the Tiger?s weak cooling system. (BTW>> in the Tiger we drove on that trip, we had removed the stock block under>> the carb that hot radiator fluid passes through which probably have made>> even more of a problem.)>> >> >> >> Buck Trippel>> >> Ps I wrote up some of this years ago and I believe it contained a more>> detailed account of Evans heating issues on the trip ? I think it was>> published in both the TEAE and CAT newletters.>> >> >> >> >> >> *From:* Tigers <tigers-bounces at autox.team.net> *On Behalf Of *Dr. T. Y.>> McDowell>> *Sent:* Saturday, July 2, 2022 5:06 AM>> *To:* Tiger's List <tigers at autox.team.net>>> *Subject:* [Tigers] Evans Waterless Cooling>> >> >> >> Is anyone out there in Tigerland using Evans Waterless Coolant?>> >> It has a boiling point of 375 (F).? I'd like to hear from anyone who's>> using it as I'm considering it.>> >> >> >> Thanks in advance,>> >> >> >> Tym McDowell>> _______________________________________________>> >> tigers at autox.team.net>> >> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers>> http://autox.team.net/archive>> >> Unsubscribe:>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/owain.lloyd at gmail.com>> >> >> > -------------- next part --------------> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...> URL: <http://autox.team.net/pipermail/tigers/attachments/20220702/fd9385ca/attachment-0001.htm>> > ------------------------------> > Message: 2> Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2022 11:35:56 -0400> From: LARRY PAULICK <lpaulick1 at verizon.net>> To: owain.lloyd at gmail.com> Cc: Buck Trippel <bucktrippel at verizon.net>, "tigers at autox.team.net">??? <tigers at autox.team.net>> Subject: Re: [Tigers] Evans Waterless Cooling> Message-ID: <8EE82D37-2D80-4774-8AAA-C9B6AF6C080E at verizon.net>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"> > Another issue is aluminum versus brass radiators.? Aluminum radiators are lighter but? brass transfers heat more efficiently.> > > When I redid my tiger, I used a three row versus a stock two row brass retaining the top, bottom, and sides so that the fit was not affected.> > Also if you're replacing or having overheating problems, a closed impeller type water pump is much more efficient. Some aftermarket companies sell them already set up this way, but you can buy just the impeller plate from Summit for a very low price and install it yourself. Pumping efficiency is greatly improved.> > TEAE > did a study many years ago on all aspects of cooling. This excellent engineering study is still applicable today and well worth reading, dispelling a lot of myths.> > > Another design problem with the tiger is that there is no lower portion of the fan shroud. As a result, hot air is removed from the radiator then goes down to the ground and circles back through the front of the radiator, at rest.> > > I know this for a fact since I did smoke test and watched the air recirculating.> > I fabricated a lower fan shroud from sheet metal, and made a low cost plastic air dam that comes down about 4 inches, to help> the flow of air through the radiator and continue towards the rear of the car while in motion.> > Bottom line it all works and I don't overheat.> > I have to laugh at the commentos who keeps saying that the V8 takes up so much space that that's why they overheat. Just look at today's cars and how they fill the engine bay and it becomes apparent this is another myth.> >> On Jul 2, 2022, at 10:29 AM, Owain Lloyd <owain.lloyd at gmail.com> wrote:>> >> Yep.? I run in most cars with no problems but in the tiger with the 500hp motor I needed every bit of efficiency possible so had to switch off even back to water and antifreeze.? It worked sort of ok with the dale radiator but then I switched to another brand radiator and it just couldn?t keep the temps down.?? Pretty sure it would be doable with an efficient and lower power motor if all the other cooling problems were taken care of.>> >> Il giorno sab 2 lug 2022 alle 16:05 Buck Trippel via Tigers <tigers at autox.team.net <mailto:tigers at autox.team.net>> ha scritto:>> In August of the hot summer of 2019 (aren?t they all hot now?) I put Evans in a Tiger which has an excellent two row aluminum radiator in front of a rather stock 289. My wife and I put the Tiger through an almost 5-thousand mile road test by driving from Los Angeles to La Crosse via I80/I90 to attend the TEAE United and then Route 66 on the way home. Temperatures were frequently at 100 degrees. So it got quite a test.>> >> >> >> The Evans did not boil but with hot outside air temperatures its inferior specific heat (to water) could not remove adequately remove the engine heat. >> >> >> >> The carb got so hot the fuel percolated (boiled) inside the bowls and the engine stalled lean. This weakness was exacerbated at altitudes above 4-thousand feet. In Pueblo, with OATs near 100 I ended up on the same AAA tow truck twice on the same day. I then gave up and reluctantly drained maybe half of the the costly coolant out, replacing it with plain water so I could get home. However the percolation reoccurred crossing the Mojave in the 115 degree August temps. At home I replaced the Evans with water, adding Water Wetter for corrosion protection. >> >> >> >> I don?t have the numbers off the top of my head but the specific heat (or ability to transfer heat) of water is 1.00 while Evans is something like .65 or only 2/3 that of water. For me, Evans just did not do the job. From my experience I?d say one would have to be exceptionally brave to use it, especially with a stock radiator system or with a more powerful engine which will place even more demand on the Tiger?s weak cooling system. (BTW in the Tiger we drove on that trip, we had removed the stock block under the carb that hot radiator fluid passes through which probably have made even more of a problem.)>> >> >> >> Buck Trippel>> >> Ps I wrote up some of this years ago and I believe it contained a more detailed account of Evans heating issues on the trip ? I think it was published in both the TEAE and CAT newletters.>> >> >> >> >> >> From: Tigers <tigers-bounces at autox.team.net <mailto:tigers-bounces at autox.team.net>> On Behalf Of Dr. T. Y. McDowell>> Sent: Saturday, July 2, 2022 5:06 AM>> To: Tiger's List <tigers at autox.team.net <mailto:tigers at autox.team.net>>>> Subject: [Tigers] Evans Waterless Cooling>> >> >> >> Is anyone out there in Tigerland using Evans Waterless Coolant? >> >> It has a boiling point of 375 (F).? I'd like to hear from anyone who's using it as I'm considering it. >> >> >> >> Thanks in advance, >> >> >> >> Tym McDowell >> >> _______________________________________________>> >> tigers at autox.team.net <mailto:tigers at autox.team.net>>> >> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html <http://www.team.net/donate.html>>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers <http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers> http://autox.team.net/archive <http://autox.team.net/archive>>> >> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/owain.lloyd at gmail.com <http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/owain.lloyd at gmail.com>>> >> >> _______________________________________________>> >> tigers at autox.team.net <mailto:tigers at autox.team.net>>> >> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html <http://www.team.net/donate.html>>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers <http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers> http://autox.team.net/archive <http://autox.team.net/archive>>> >> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/lpaulick1 at verizon.net <http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/lpaulick1 at verizon.net>> -------------- next part --------------> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...> URL: <http://autox.team.net/pipermail/tigers/attachments/20220702/5d19c1ce/attachment.htm>> > ------------------------------> > Subject: Digest Footer> > _______________________________________________> Tigers mailing list> Tigers at autox.team.net> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers> > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive> > > ------------------------------> > End of Tigers Digest, Vol 15, Issue 218> ***************************************_______________________________________________tigers at autox.team.netDonate: http://www.team.net/donate.htmlArchive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archiveUnsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/jimdamelio at verizon.net
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From jliny5 at cox.net  Sat Jul  2 16:12:35 2022
From: jliny5 at cox.net (James Lindner)
Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2022 18:12:35 -0400
Subject: [Tigers] Tigers Digest, Vol 15, Issue 218
In-Reply-To: <556932685.2580126.1656796213542@verizon.net>
References: <556932685.2580126.1656796213542@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <5D42C1FB-7A27-4FC3-BBBF-9CAE8C8267C4@cox.net>

Jim

Here is a pic of a lower shroud I bought years ago. Never put it on. Not really sure how it is suppose to fit. I assume you attach to existing shroud somehow. 

Jim L



Sent from my iPad

> On Jul 2, 2022, at 5:42 PM, Jim D'Amelio via Tigers <tigers at autox.team.net> wrote:
> 
> ?
> James,  
> 
> Would you happen to have any pictures of the lower shroud?
> 
> Jim D
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my Galaxy
> 
> 
> -------- Original message --------
> From: JAMES ARMSTRONG via Tigers <tigers at autox.team.net>
> Date: 7/2/22 3:14 PM (GMT-05:00)
> To: tigers at autox.team.net
> Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tigers Digest, Vol 15, Issue 218
> 
> Hello
> I met a Canadian guy, I believe from Qu?bec at the 2000 TEAE United in Rockland Maine. He said he was fabricating Lower fan shrouds.  I stayed in touch, bought the device, had it installed on the Tiger and it works quite nicely.
> My engine is a rebuilt 260 with a comp cam, Edelbrock F4B, PerTronics, and that?s it. A mild upgrade but the lower fan shroud does help. For really really hot days, I?ve got a Kenlow pusher fan and with everything I have no trouble
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> > On Jul 2, 2022, at 12:05 PM, tigers-request at autox.team.net wrote:
> > 
> > ?Send Tigers mailing list submissions to
> >    tigers at autox.team.net
> > 
> > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> >    http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers
> > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> >    tigers-request at autox.team.net
> > 
> > You can reach the person managing the list at
> >    tigers-owner at autox.team.net
> > 
> > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> > than "Re: Contents of Tigers digest..."
> > 
> > 
> > Today's Topics:
> > 
> >   1. Re: Evans Waterless Cooling (Owain Lloyd)
> >   2. Re: Evans Waterless Cooling (LARRY PAULICK)
> > 
> > 
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > 
> > Message: 1
> > Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2022 16:29:17 +0200
> > From: Owain Lloyd <owain.lloyd at gmail.com>
> > To: Buck Trippel <bucktrippel at verizon.net>
> > Cc: "Dr. T. Y. McDowell" <tym2 at comcast.net>, "Tiger's List"
> >    <tigers at autox.team.net>
> > Subject: Re: [Tigers] Evans Waterless Cooling
> > Message-ID:
> >    <CANE47iQLDVr=D_km8HR0ofZyQCG2soZ2fKYc2oBq9EpwUSgtoA at mail.gmail.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> > 
> > Yep.  I run in most cars with no problems but in the tiger with the 500hp
> > motor I needed every bit of efficiency possible so had to switch off even
> > back to water and antifreeze.  It worked sort of ok with the dale radiator
> > but then I switched to another brand radiator and it just couldn?t keep the
> > temps down.   Pretty sure it would be doable with an efficient and lower
> > power motor if all the other cooling problems were taken care of.
> > 
> > Il giorno sab 2 lug 2022 alle 16:05 Buck Trippel via Tigers <
> > tigers at autox.team.net> ha scritto:
> > 
> >> In August of the hot summer of 2019 (aren?t they all hot now?) I put Evans
> >> in a Tiger which has an excellent two row aluminum radiator in front of a
> >> rather stock 289. My wife and I put the Tiger through an almost 5-thousand
> >> mile road test by driving from Los Angeles to La Crosse via I80/I90 to
> >> attend the TEAE United and then Route 66 on the way home. Temperatures were
> >> frequently at 100 degrees. So it got quite a test.
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> The Evans did not boil but with hot outside air temperatures its inferior
> >> specific heat (to water) could not remove adequately remove the engine
> >> heat.
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> The carb got so hot the fuel percolated (boiled) inside the bowls and the
> >> engine stalled lean. This weakness was exacerbated at altitudes above
> >> 4-thousand feet. In Pueblo, with OATs near 100 I ended up on the same AAA
> >> tow truck twice on the same day. I then gave up and reluctantly drained
> >> maybe half of the the costly coolant out, replacing it with plain water so
> >> I could get home. However the percolation reoccurred crossing the Mojave in
> >> the 115 degree August temps. At home I replaced the Evans with water,
> >> adding Water Wetter for corrosion protection.
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> I don?t have the numbers off the top of my head but the specific heat (or
> >> ability to transfer heat) of water is 1.00 while Evans is something like
> >> .65 or only 2/3 that of water. For me, Evans just did not do the job. From
> >> my experience I?d say one would have to be exceptionally brave to use it,
> >> especially with a stock radiator system or with a more powerful engine
> >> which will place even more demand on the Tiger?s weak cooling system. (BTW
> >> in the Tiger we drove on that trip, we had removed the stock block under
> >> the carb that hot radiator fluid passes through which probably have made
> >> even more of a problem.)
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> Buck Trippel
> >> 
> >> Ps I wrote up some of this years ago and I believe it contained a more
> >> detailed account of Evans heating issues on the trip ? I think it was
> >> published in both the TEAE and CAT newletters.
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> *From:* Tigers <tigers-bounces at autox.team.net> *On Behalf Of *Dr. T. Y.
> >> McDowell
> >> *Sent:* Saturday, July 2, 2022 5:06 AM
> >> *To:* Tiger's List <tigers at autox.team.net>
> >> *Subject:* [Tigers] Evans Waterless Cooling
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> Is anyone out there in Tigerland using Evans Waterless Coolant?
> >> 
> >> It has a boiling point of 375 (F).  I'd like to hear from anyone who's
> >> using it as I'm considering it.
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> Thanks in advance,
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> Tym McDowell
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> 
> >> tigers at autox.team.net
> >> 
> >> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> >> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers
> >> http://autox.team.net/archive
> >> 
> >> Unsubscribe:
> >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/owain.lloyd at gmail.com
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> > -------------- next part --------------
> > An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> > URL: <http://autox.team.net/pipermail/tigers/attachments/20220702/fd9385ca/attachment-0001.htm>
> > 
> > ------------------------------
> > 
> > Message: 2
> > Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2022 11:35:56 -0400
> > From: LARRY PAULICK <lpaulick1 at verizon.net>
> > To: owain.lloyd at gmail.com
> > Cc: Buck Trippel <bucktrippel at verizon.net>, "tigers at autox.team.net"
> >    <tigers at autox.team.net>
> > Subject: Re: [Tigers] Evans Waterless Cooling
> > Message-ID: <8EE82D37-2D80-4774-8AAA-C9B6AF6C080E at verizon.net>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> > 
> > Another issue is aluminum versus brass radiators.  Aluminum radiators are lighter but  brass transfers heat more efficiently.
> > 
> > 
> > When I redid my tiger, I used a three row versus a stock two row brass retaining the top, bottom, and sides so that the fit was not affected.
> > 
> > Also if you're replacing or having overheating problems, a closed impeller type water pump is much more efficient. Some aftermarket companies sell them already set up this way, but you can buy just the impeller plate from Summit for a very low price and install it yourself. Pumping efficiency is greatly improved.
> > 
> > TEAE 
> > did a study many years ago on all aspects of cooling. This excellent engineering study is still applicable today and well worth reading, dispelling a lot of myths.
> > 
> > 
> > Another design problem with the tiger is that there is no lower portion of the fan shroud. As a result, hot air is removed from the radiator then goes down to the ground and circles back through the front of the radiator, at rest.
> > 
> > 
> > I know this for a fact since I did smoke test and watched the air recirculating.
> > 
> > I fabricated a lower fan shroud from sheet metal, and made a low cost plastic air dam that comes down about 4 inches, to help
> > the flow of air through the radiator and continue towards the rear of the car while in motion.
> > 
> > Bottom line it all works and I don't overheat.
> > 
> > I have to laugh at the commentos who keeps saying that the V8 takes up so much space that that's why they overheat. Just look at today's cars and how they fill the engine bay and it becomes apparent this is another myth.
> > 
> >> On Jul 2, 2022, at 10:29 AM, Owain Lloyd <owain.lloyd at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> 
> >> Yep.  I run in most cars with no problems but in the tiger with the 500hp motor I needed every bit of efficiency possible so had to switch off even back to water and antifreeze.  It worked sort of ok with the dale radiator but then I switched to another brand radiator and it just couldn?t keep the temps down.   Pretty sure it would be doable with an efficient and lower power motor if all the other cooling problems were taken care of.
> >> 
> >> Il giorno sab 2 lug 2022 alle 16:05 Buck Trippel via Tigers <tigers at autox.team.net <mailto:tigers at autox.team.net>> ha scritto:
> >> In August of the hot summer of 2019 (aren?t they all hot now?) I put Evans in a Tiger which has an excellent two row aluminum radiator in front of a rather stock 289. My wife and I put the Tiger through an almost 5-thousand mile road test by driving from Los Angeles to La Crosse via I80/I90 to attend the TEAE United and then Route 66 on the way home. Temperatures were frequently at 100 degrees. So it got quite a test.
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> The Evans did not boil but with hot outside air temperatures its inferior specific heat (to water) could not remove adequately remove the engine heat. 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> The carb got so hot the fuel percolated (boiled) inside the bowls and the engine stalled lean. This weakness was exacerbated at altitudes above 4-thousand feet. In Pueblo, with OATs near 100 I ended up on the same AAA tow truck twice on the same day. I then gave up and reluctantly drained maybe half of the the costly coolant out, replacing it with plain water so I could get home. However the percolation reoccurred crossing the Mojave in the 115 degree August temps. At home I replaced the Evans with water, adding Water Wetter for corrosion protection. 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> I don?t have the numbers off the top of my head but the specific heat (or ability to transfer heat) of water is 1.00 while Evans is something like .65 or only 2/3 that of water. For me, Evans just did not do the job. From my experience I?d say one would have to be exceptionally brave to use it, especially with a stock radiator system or with a more powerful engine which will place even more demand on the Tiger?s weak cooling system. (BTW in the Tiger we drove on that trip, we had removed the stock block under the carb that hot radiator fluid passes through which probably have made even more of a problem.)
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> Buck Trippel
> >> 
> >> Ps I wrote up some of this years ago and I believe it contained a more detailed account of Evans heating issues on the trip ? I think it was published in both the TEAE and CAT newletters.
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> From: Tigers <tigers-bounces at autox.team.net <mailto:tigers-bounces at autox.team.net>> On Behalf Of Dr. T. Y. McDowell
> >> Sent: Saturday, July 2, 2022 5:06 AM
> >> To: Tiger's List <tigers at autox.team.net <mailto:tigers at autox.team.net>>
> >> Subject: [Tigers] Evans Waterless Cooling
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> Is anyone out there in Tigerland using Evans Waterless Coolant? 
> >> 
> >> It has a boiling point of 375 (F).  I'd like to hear from anyone who's using it as I'm considering it. 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> Thanks in advance, 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> Tym McDowell 
> >> 
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> 
> >> tigers at autox.team.net <mailto:tigers at autox.team.net>
> >> 
> >> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html <http://www.team.net/donate.html>
> >> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers <http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers> http://autox.team.net/archive <http://autox.team.net/archive>
> >> 
> >> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/owain.lloyd at gmail.com <http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/owain.lloyd at gmail.com>
> >> 
> >> 
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> 
> >> tigers at autox.team.net <mailto:tigers at autox.team.net>
> >> 
> >> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html <http://www.team.net/donate.html>
> >> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers <http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers> http://autox.team.net/archive <http://autox.team.net/archive>
> >> 
> >> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/lpaulick1 at verizon.net <http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/lpaulick1 at verizon.net>
> > -------------- next part --------------
> > An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
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> > 
> > ------------------------------
> > 
> > Subject: Digest Footer
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Tigers mailing list
> > Tigers at autox.team.net
> > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers
> > 
> > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive
> > 
> > 
> > ------------------------------
> > 
> > End of Tigers Digest, Vol 15, Issue 218
> > ***************************************
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 
> tigers at autox.team.net
> 
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive
> 
> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/jimdamelio at verizon.net
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 
> tigers at autox.team.net
> 
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive
> 
> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/jliny5 at cox.net
> 
> 
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From jbbrown1980 at gmail.com  Sat Jul  2 16:17:49 2022
From: jbbrown1980 at gmail.com (Joe Brown)
Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2022 17:17:49 -0500
Subject: [Tigers] Tigers Digest, Vol 15, Issue 218
In-Reply-To: <556932685.2580126.1656796213542@verizon.net>
References: <9FBF1F31-1CEE-43A7-9B6C-8EEB4A6AB4E8@aol.com>
 <556932685.2580126.1656796213542@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <CAKb_wfmqP5By1VWZAnVhuyxMcZ1qE-mbxOBKatLyvHhUdQmq5A@mail.gmail.com>

The lower shrouds are made by Denis at denisetlouise at live.ca.



On Sat, Jul 2, 2022 at 4:50 PM Jim D'Amelio via Tigers <
tigers at autox.team.net> wrote:

> James,
>
> Would you happen to have any pictures of the lower shroud?
>
> Jim D
>
>
>
> Sent from my Galaxy
>
>
> -------- Original message --------
> From: JAMES ARMSTRONG via Tigers <tigers at autox.team.net>
> Date: 7/2/22 3:14 PM (GMT-05:00)
> To: tigers at autox.team.net
> Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tigers Digest, Vol 15, Issue 218
>
> Hello
> I met a Canadian guy, I believe from Qu?bec at the 2000 TEAE United in
> Rockland Maine. He said he was fabricating Lower fan shrouds.  I stayed in
> touch, bought the device, had it installed on the Tiger and it works quite
> nicely.
> My engine is a rebuilt 260 with a comp cam, Edelbrock F4B, PerTronics, and
> that?s it. A mild upgrade but the lower fan shroud does help. For really
> really hot days, I?ve got a Kenlow pusher fan and with everything I have no
> trouble
>
>
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Jul 2, 2022, at 12:05 PM, tigers-request at autox.team.net wrote:
> >
> > ?Send Tigers mailing list submissions to
> >    tigers at autox.team.net
> >
> > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> >    http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers
> > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> >    tigers-request at autox.team.net
> >
> > You can reach the person managing the list at
> >    tigers-owner at autox.team.net
> >
> > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> > than "Re: Contents of Tigers digest..."
> >
> >
> > Today's Topics:
> >
> >   1. Re: Evans Waterless Cooling (Owain Lloyd)
> >   2. Re: Evans Waterless Cooling (LARRY PAULICK)
> >
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 1
> > Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2022 16:29:17 +0200
> > From: Owain Lloyd <owain.lloyd at gmail.com>
> > To: Buck Trippel <bucktrippel at verizon.net>
> > Cc: "Dr. T. Y. McDowell" <tym2 at comcast.net>, "Tiger's List"
> >    <tigers at autox.team.net>
> > Subject: Re: [Tigers] Evans Waterless Cooling
> > Message-ID:
> >    <CANE47iQLDVr=D_km8HR0ofZyQCG2soZ2fKYc2oBq9EpwUSgtoA at mail.gmail.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> >
> > Yep.  I run in most cars with no problems but in the tiger with the 500hp
> > motor I needed every bit of efficiency possible so had to switch off even
> > back to water and antifreeze.  It worked sort of ok with the dale
> radiator
> > but then I switched to another brand radiator and it just couldn?t keep
> the
> > temps down.   Pretty sure it would be doable with an efficient and lower
> > power motor if all the other cooling problems were taken care of.
> >
> > Il giorno sab 2 lug 2022 alle 16:05 Buck Trippel via Tigers <
> > tigers at autox.team.net> ha scritto:
> >
> >> In August of the hot summer of 2019 (aren?t they all hot now?) I put
> Evans
> >> in a Tiger which has an excellent two row aluminum radiator in front of
> a
> >> rather stock 289. My wife and I put the Tiger through an almost
> 5-thousand
> >> mile road test by driving from Los Angeles to La Crosse via I80/I90 to
> >> attend the TEAE United and then Route 66 on the way home. Temperatures
> were
> >> frequently at 100 degrees. So it got quite a test.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> The Evans did not boil but with hot outside air temperatures its
> inferior
> >> specific heat (to water) could not remove adequately remove the engine
> >> heat.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> The carb got so hot the fuel percolated (boiled) inside the bowls and
> the
> >> engine stalled lean. This weakness was exacerbated at altitudes above
> >> 4-thousand feet. In Pueblo, with OATs near 100 I ended up on the same
> AAA
> >> tow truck twice on the same day. I then gave up and reluctantly drained
> >> maybe half of the the costly coolant out, replacing it with plain water
> so
> >> I could get home. However the percolation reoccurred crossing the
> Mojave in
> >> the 115 degree August temps. At home I replaced the Evans with water,
> >> adding Water Wetter for corrosion protection.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> I don?t have the numbers off the top of my head but the specific heat
> (or
> >> ability to transfer heat) of water is 1.00 while Evans is something like
> >> .65 or only 2/3 that of water. For me, Evans just did not do the job.
> From
> >> my experience I?d say one would have to be exceptionally brave to use
> it,
> >> especially with a stock radiator system or with a more powerful engine
> >> which will place even more demand on the Tiger?s weak cooling system.
> (BTW
> >> in the Tiger we drove on that trip, we had removed the stock block under
> >> the carb that hot radiator fluid passes through which probably have made
> >> even more of a problem.)
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Buck Trippel
> >>
> >> Ps I wrote up some of this years ago and I believe it contained a more
> >> detailed account of Evans heating issues on the trip ? I think it was
> >> published in both the TEAE and CAT newletters.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> *From:* Tigers <tigers-bounces at autox.team.net> *On Behalf Of *Dr. T. Y.
> >> McDowell
> >> *Sent:* Saturday, July 2, 2022 5:06 AM
> >> *To:* Tiger's List <tigers at autox.team.net>
> >> *Subject:* [Tigers] Evans Waterless Cooling
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Is anyone out there in Tigerland using Evans Waterless Coolant?
> >>
> >> It has a boiling point of 375 (F).  I'd like to hear from anyone who's
> >> using it as I'm considering it.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Thanks in advance,
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Tym McDowell
> >> _______________________________________________
> >>
> >> tigers at autox.team.net
> >>
> >> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> >> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers
> >> http://autox.team.net/archive
> >>
> >> Unsubscribe:
> >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/owain.lloyd at gmail.com
> >>
> >>
> >>
> > -------------- next part --------------
> > An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> > URL: <
> http://autox.team.net/pipermail/tigers/attachments/20220702/fd9385ca/attachment-0001.htm
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 2
> > Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2022 11:35:56 -0400
> > From: LARRY PAULICK <lpaulick1 at verizon.net>
> > To: owain.lloyd at gmail.com
> > Cc: Buck Trippel <bucktrippel at verizon.net>, "tigers at autox.team.net"
> >    <tigers at autox.team.net>
> > Subject: Re: [Tigers] Evans Waterless Cooling
> > Message-ID: <8EE82D37-2D80-4774-8AAA-C9B6AF6C080E at verizon.net>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> >
> > Another issue is aluminum versus brass radiators.  Aluminum radiators
> are lighter but  brass transfers heat more efficiently.
> >
> >
> > When I redid my tiger, I used a three row versus a stock two row brass
> retaining the top, bottom, and sides so that the fit was not affected.
> >
> > Also if you're replacing or having overheating problems, a closed
> impeller type water pump is much more efficient. Some aftermarket companies
> sell them already set up this way, but you can buy just the impeller plate
> from Summit for a very low price and install it yourself. Pumping
> efficiency is greatly improved.
> >
> > TEAE
> > did a study many years ago on all aspects of cooling. This excellent
> engineering study is still applicable today and well worth reading,
> dispelling a lot of myths.
> >
> >
> > Another design problem with the tiger is that there is no lower portion
> of the fan shroud. As a result, hot air is removed from the radiator then
> goes down to the ground and circles back through the front of the radiator,
> at rest.
> >
> >
> > I know this for a fact since I did smoke test and watched the air
> recirculating.
> >
> > I fabricated a lower fan shroud from sheet metal, and made a low cost
> plastic air dam that comes down about 4 inches, to help
> > the flow of air through the radiator and continue towards the rear of
> the car while in motion.
> >
> > Bottom line it all works and I don't overheat.
> >
> > I have to laugh at the commentos who keeps saying that the V8 takes up
> so much space that that's why they overheat. Just look at today's cars and
> how they fill the engine bay and it becomes apparent this is another myth.
> >
> >> On Jul 2, 2022, at 10:29 AM, Owain Lloyd <owain.lloyd at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> Yep.  I run in most cars with no problems but in the tiger with the
> 500hp motor I needed every bit of efficiency possible so had to switch off
> even back to water and antifreeze.  It worked sort of ok with the dale
> radiator but then I switched to another brand radiator and it just couldn?t
> keep the temps down.   Pretty sure it would be doable with an efficient and
> lower power motor if all the other cooling problems were taken care of.
> >>
> >> Il giorno sab 2 lug 2022 alle 16:05 Buck Trippel via Tigers <
> tigers at autox.team.net <mailto:tigers at autox.team.net>> ha scritto:
> >> In August of the hot summer of 2019 (aren?t they all hot now?) I put
> Evans in a Tiger which has an excellent two row aluminum radiator in front
> of a rather stock 289. My wife and I put the Tiger through an almost
> 5-thousand mile road test by driving from Los Angeles to La Crosse via
> I80/I90 to attend the TEAE United and then Route 66 on the way home.
> Temperatures were frequently at 100 degrees. So it got quite a test.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> The Evans did not boil but with hot outside air temperatures its
> inferior specific heat (to water) could not remove adequately remove the
> engine heat.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> The carb got so hot the fuel percolated (boiled) inside the bowls and
> the engine stalled lean. This weakness was exacerbated at altitudes above
> 4-thousand feet. In Pueblo, with OATs near 100 I ended up on the same AAA
> tow truck twice on the same day. I then gave up and reluctantly drained
> maybe half of the the costly coolant out, replacing it with plain water so
> I could get home. However the percolation reoccurred crossing the Mojave in
> the 115 degree August temps. At home I replaced the Evans with water,
> adding Water Wetter for corrosion protection.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> I don?t have the numbers off the top of my head but the specific heat
> (or ability to transfer heat) of water is 1.00 while Evans is something
> like .65 or only 2/3 that of water. For me, Evans just did not do the job.
> From my experience I?d say one would have to be exceptionally brave to use
> it, especially with a stock radiator system or with a more powerful engine
> which will place even more demand on the Tiger?s weak cooling system. (BTW
> in the Tiger we drove on that trip, we had removed the stock block under
> the carb that hot radiator fluid passes through which probably have made
> even more of a problem.)
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Buck Trippel
> >>
> >> Ps I wrote up some of this years ago and I believe it contained a more
> detailed account of Evans heating issues on the trip ? I think it was
> published in both the TEAE and CAT newletters.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> From: Tigers <tigers-bounces at autox.team.net <mailto:
> tigers-bounces at autox.team.net>> On Behalf Of Dr. T. Y. McDowell
> >> Sent: Saturday, July 2, 2022 5:06 AM
> >> To: Tiger's List <tigers at autox.team.net <mailto:tigers at autox.team.net>>
> >> Subject: [Tigers] Evans Waterless Cooling
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Is anyone out there in Tigerland using Evans Waterless Coolant?
> >>
> >> It has a boiling point of 375 (F).  I'd like to hear from anyone who's
> using it as I'm considering it.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Thanks in advance,
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Tym McDowell
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >>
> >> tigers at autox.team.net <mailto:tigers at autox.team.net>
> >>
> >> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html <
> http://www.team.net/donate.html>
> >> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers <
> http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers> http://autox.team.net/archive <
> http://autox.team.net/archive>
> >>
> >> Unsubscribe:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/owain.lloyd at gmail.com <
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/owain.lloyd at gmail.com>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >>
> >> tigers at autox.team.net <mailto:tigers at autox.team.net>
> >>
> >> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html <
> http://www.team.net/donate.html>
> >> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers <
> http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers> http://autox.team.net/archive <
> http://autox.team.net/archive>
> >>
> >> Unsubscribe:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/lpaulick1 at verizon.net <
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/lpaulick1 at verizon.net>
> > -------------- next part --------------
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> > URL: <
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> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Subject: Digest Footer
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Tigers mailing list
> > Tigers at autox.team.net
> > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers
> >
> > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers
> http://autox.team.net/archive
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > End of Tigers Digest, Vol 15, Issue 218
> > ***************************************
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> tigers at autox.team.net
>
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers
> http://autox.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/jimdamelio at verizon.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> tigers at autox.team.net
>
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers
> http://autox.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/jbbrown1980 at gmail.com
>
>
>
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From rollright at aol.com  Sat Jul  2 16:23:04 2022
From: rollright at aol.com (JAMES ARMSTRONG)
Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2022 18:23:04 -0400
Subject: [Tigers] Tigers Digest, Vol 15, Issue 221
In-Reply-To: <mailman.318.1656796215.24409.tigers@autox.team.net>
References: <mailman.318.1656796215.24409.tigers@autox.team.net>
Message-ID: <2EB658E8-5ABF-4C0F-9296-9AB14FB7C8A8@aol.com>

Sorry, as you might imagine the installation is pretty tight. Unless I had the car up on a lift, pictures are not going to happen. Let me think about it though there may be a way. But it won?t be quick

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 2, 2022, at 5:57 PM, tigers-request at autox.team.net wrote:
> 
> ?Send Tigers mailing list submissions to
>    tigers at autox.team.net
> 
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>    http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>    tigers-request at autox.team.net
> 
> You can reach the person managing the list at
>    tigers-owner at autox.team.net
> 
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Tigers digest..."
> 
> 
> Today's Topics:
> 
>   1. Re: Evans Waterless Cooling (Buck Trippel)
>   2. Re: Tigers Digest, Vol 15, Issue 218 (Jim D'Amelio)
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2022 13:13:46 -0700
> From: "Buck Trippel" <bucktrippel at verizon.net>
> To: <owain.lloyd at gmail.com>,    "'LARRY PAULICK'" <lpaulick1 at verizon.net>
> Cc: <tigers at autox.team.net>
> Subject: Re: [Tigers] Evans Waterless Cooling
> Message-ID: <0d2f01d88e50$3cc65b70$b6531250$@verizon.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> 
> Owain, have you encountered either high outside air temps or high altitudes when using Evans in your Tiger?
> 
> 
> 
> Buck
> 
> 
> 
> From: Owain Lloyd <owain.lloyd at gmail.com> 
> Sent: Saturday, July 2, 2022 8:42 AM
> To: LARRY PAULICK <lpaulick1 at verizon.net>
> Cc: Buck Trippel <bucktrippel at verizon.net>; tigers at autox.team.net
> Subject: Re: [Tigers] Evans Waterless Cooling
> 
> 
> 
> Assuming all those things are done, evans is still not quite up to the job in my car.  Most of those cooling tricks are for slow moving car.  My car ran too hot even at speed with evans and the less than perfect radiator.  As I said, with a better radiator or with water instead it is fine.
> 
> 
> 
> My reason for preferring brass is that it can be easily soldered.  I struggled on for a long time with my brass radiator but eventually it was just too stress fatigued and needed frequent repair.  If I could get a new brass one I would certainly prefer that.
> 
> 
> 
> Il giorno sab 2 lug 2022 alle 17:36 LARRY PAULICK <lpaulick1 at verizon.net <mailto:lpaulick1 at verizon.net> > ha scritto:
> 
> Another issue is aluminum versus brass radiators.  Aluminum radiators are lighter but  brass transfers heat more efficiently.
> 
> 
> 
> When I redid my tiger, I used a three row versus a stock two row brass retaining the top, bottom, and sides so that the fit was not affected.
> 
> 
> 
> Also if you're replacing or having overheating problems, a closed impeller type water pump is much more efficient. Some aftermarket companies sell them already set up this way, but you can buy just the impeller plate from Summit for a very low price and install it yourself. Pumping efficiency is greatly improved.
> 
> 
> 
> TEAE did a study many years ago on all aspects of cooling. This excellent engineering study is still applicable today and well worth reading, dispelling a lot of myths.
> 
> 
> 
> Another design problem with the tiger is that there is no lower portion of the fan shroud. As a result, hot air is removed from the radiator then goes down to the ground and circles back through the front of the radiator, at rest.
> 
> 
> 
> I know this for a fact since I did smoke test and watched the air recirculating.
> 
> 
> 
> I fabricated a lower fan shroud from sheet metal, and made a low cost plastic air dam that comes down about 4 inches, to help the flow of air through the radiator and continue towards the rear of the car while in motion.
> 
> 
> 
> Bottom line it all works and I don't overheat.
> 
> 
> 
> I have to laugh at the commentos who keeps saying that the V8 takes up so much space that that's why they overheat. Just look at today's cars and how they fill the engine bay and it becomes apparent this is another myth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Jul 2, 2022, at 10:29 AM, Owain Lloyd <owain.lloyd at gmail.com <mailto:owain.lloyd at gmail.com> > wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> Yep.  I run in most cars with no problems but in the tiger with the 500hp motor I needed every bit of efficiency possible so had to switch off even back to water and antifreeze.  It worked sort of ok with the dale radiator but then I switched to another brand radiator and it just couldn?t keep the temps down.   Pretty sure it would be doable with an efficient and lower power motor if all the other cooling problems were taken care of.
> 
> 
> 
> Il giorno sab 2 lug 2022 alle 16:05 Buck Trippel via Tigers <tigers at autox.team.net <mailto:tigers at autox.team.net> > ha scritto:
> 
> In August of the hot summer of 2019 (aren?t they all hot now?) I put Evans in a Tiger which has an excellent two row aluminum radiator in front of a rather stock 289. My wife and I put the Tiger through an almost 5-thousand mile road test by driving from Los Angeles to La Crosse via I80/I90 to attend the TEAE United and then Route 66 on the way home. Temperatures were frequently at 100 degrees. So it got quite a test.
> 
> 
> 
> The Evans did not boil but with hot outside air temperatures its inferior specific heat (to water) could not remove adequately remove the engine heat. 
> 
> 
> 
> The carb got so hot the fuel percolated (boiled) inside the bowls and the engine stalled lean. This weakness was exacerbated at altitudes above 4-thousand feet. In Pueblo, with OATs near 100 I ended up on the same AAA tow truck twice on the same day. I then gave up and reluctantly drained maybe half of the the costly coolant out, replacing it with plain water so I could get home. However the percolation reoccurred crossing the Mojave in the 115 degree August temps. At home I replaced the Evans with water, adding Water Wetter for corrosion protection. 
> 
> 
> 
> I don?t have the numbers off the top of my head but the specific heat (or ability to transfer heat) of water is 1.00 while Evans is something like .65 or only 2/3 that of water. For me, Evans just did not do the job. From my experience I?d say one would have to be exceptionally brave to use it, especially with a stock radiator system or with a more powerful engine which will place even more demand on the Tiger?s weak cooling system. (BTW in the Tiger we drove on that trip, we had removed the stock block under the carb that hot radiator fluid passes through which probably have made even more of a problem.)
> 
> 
> 
> Buck Trippel
> 
> Ps I wrote up some of this years ago and I believe it contained a more detailed account of Evans heating issues on the trip ? I think it was published in both the TEAE and CAT newletters.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From: Tigers <tigers-bounces at autox.team.net <mailto:tigers-bounces at autox.team.net> > On Behalf Of Dr. T. Y. McDowell
> Sent: Saturday, July 2, 2022 5:06 AM
> To: Tiger's List <tigers at autox.team.net <mailto:tigers at autox.team.net> >
> Subject: [Tigers] Evans Waterless Cooling
> 
> 
> 
> Is anyone out there in Tigerland using Evans Waterless Coolant? 
> 
> It has a boiling point of 375 (F).  I'd like to hear from anyone who's using it as I'm considering it. 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks in advance, 
> 
> 
> 
> Tym McDowell 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 
> tigers at autox.team.net <mailto:tigers at autox.team.net> 
> 
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive
> 
> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/owain.lloyd at gmail.com
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 
> <mailto:tigers at autox.team.net> tigers at autox.team.net
> 
> Donate:  <http://www.team.net/donate.html> http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive:  <http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers> http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers  <http://autox.team.net/archive> http://autox.team.net/archive
> 
> 
> 
> Unsubscribe:  <http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/lpaulick1 at verizon.net> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/lpaulick1 at verizon.net
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 2
> Date: Sat, 02 Jul 2022 17:10:10 -0400
> From: Jim D'Amelio <jimdamelio at verizon.net>
> To: JAMES ARMSTRONG <rollright at aol.com>, tigers at autox.team.net
> Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tigers Digest, Vol 15, Issue 218
> Message-ID: <556932685.2580126.1656796213542 at verizon.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> 
> James,??Would you happen to have any pictures of the lower shroud?Jim DSent from my Galaxy
> -------- Original message --------From: JAMES ARMSTRONG via Tigers <tigers at autox.team.net> Date: 7/2/22  3:14 PM  (GMT-05:00) To: tigers at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tigers Digest, Vol 15, Issue 218 HelloI met a Canadian guy, I believe from Qu?bec at the 2000 TEAE United in Rockland Maine. He said he was fabricating Lower fan shrouds.? I stayed in touch, bought the device, had it installed on the Tiger and it works quite nicely.My engine is a rebuilt 260 with a comp cam, Edelbrock F4B, PerTronics, and that?s it. A mild upgrade but the lower fan shroud does help. For really really hot days, I?ve got a Kenlow pusher fan and with everything I have no troubleSent from my iPhone> On Jul 2, 2022, at 12:05 PM, tigers-request at autox.team.net wrote:> > ?Send Tigers mailing list submissions to>??? tigers at autox.team.net> > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit>??? http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' 
> to>??? tigers-request at autox.team.net> > You can reach the person managing the list at>??? tigers-owner at autox.team.net> > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific> than "Re: Contents of Tigers digest..."> > > Today's Topics:> >?? 1. Re: Evans Waterless Cooling (Owain Lloyd)>?? 2. Re: Evans Waterless Cooling (LARRY PAULICK)> > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------> > Message: 1> Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2022 16:29:17 +0200> From: Owain Lloyd <owain.lloyd at gmail.com>> To: Buck Trippel <bucktrippel at verizon.net>> Cc: "Dr. T. Y. McDowell" <tym2 at comcast.net>, "Tiger's List">??? <tigers at autox.team.net>> Subject: Re: [Tigers] Evans Waterless Cooling> Message-ID:>??? <CANE47iQLDVr=D_km8HR0ofZyQCG2soZ2fKYc2oBq9EpwUSgtoA at mail.gmail.com>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"> > Yep.? I run in most cars with no problems but in the tiger with the 500hp> motor I needed every bit of efficiency possible so had to switch off even> back to water
>  and antifreeze.? It worked sort of ok with the dale radiator> but then I switched to another brand radiator and it just couldn?t keep the> temps down.?? Pretty sure it would be doable with an efficient and lower> power motor if all the other cooling problems were taken care of.> > Il giorno sab 2 lug 2022 alle 16:05 Buck Trippel via Tigers <> tigers at autox.team.net> ha scritto:> >> In August of the hot summer of 2019 (aren?t they all hot now?) I put Evans>> in a Tiger which has an excellent two row aluminum radiator in front of a>> rather stock 289. My wife and I put the Tiger through an almost 5-thousand>> mile road test by driving from Los Angeles to La Crosse via I80/I90 to>> attend the TEAE United and then Route 66 on the way home. Temperatures were>> frequently at 100 degrees. So it got quite a test.>> >> >> >> The Evans did not boil but with hot outside air temperatures its inferior>> specific heat (to water) could not remove adequately remove the engine>> heat.>> >> >> >> The
>  carb got so hot the fuel percolated (boiled) inside the bowls and the>> engine stalled lean. This weakness was exacerbated at altitudes above>> 4-thousand feet. In Pueblo, with OATs near 100 I ended up on the same AAA>> tow truck twice on the same day. I then gave up and reluctantly drained>> maybe half of the the costly coolant out, replacing it with plain water so>> I could get home. However the percolation reoccurred crossing the Mojave in>> the 115 degree August temps. At home I replaced the Evans with water,>> adding Water Wetter for corrosion protection.>> >> >> >> I don?t have the numbers off the top of my head but the specific heat (or>> ability to transfer heat) of water is 1.00 while Evans is something like>> .65 or only 2/3 that of water. For me, Evans just did not do the job. From>> my experience I?d say one would have to be exceptionally brave to use it,>> especially with a stock radiator system or with a more powerful engine>> which will place even more demand on the
> Tiger?s weak cooling system. (BTW>> in the Tiger we drove on that trip, we had removed the stock block under>> the carb that hot radiator fluid passes through which probably have made>> even more of a problem.)>> >> >> >> Buck Trippel>> >> Ps I wrote up some of this years ago and I believe it contained a more>> detailed account of Evans heating issues on the trip ? I think it was>> published in both the TEAE and CAT newletters.>> >> >> >> >> >> *From:* Tigers <tigers-bounces at autox.team.net> *On Behalf Of *Dr. T. Y.>> McDowell>> *Sent:* Saturday, July 2, 2022 5:06 AM>> *To:* Tiger's List <tigers at autox.team.net>>> *Subject:* [Tigers] Evans Waterless Cooling>> >> >> >> Is anyone out there in Tigerland using Evans Waterless Coolant?>> >> It has a boiling point of 375 (F).? I'd like to hear from anyone who's>> using it as I'm considering it.>> >> >> >> Thanks in advance,>> >> >> >> Tym McDowell>> _______________________________________________>> >> tigers at autox.team.net>> >> Donate: http
> ://www.team.net/donate.html>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers>> http://autox.team.net/archive>> >> Unsubscribe:>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/owain.lloyd at gmail.com>> >> >> > -------------- next part --------------> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...> URL: <http://autox.team.net/pipermail/tigers/attachments/20220702/fd9385ca/attachment-0001.htm>> > ------------------------------> > Message: 2> Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2022 11:35:56 -0400> From: LARRY PAULICK <lpaulick1 at verizon.net>> To: owain.lloyd at gmail.com> Cc: Buck Trippel <bucktrippel at verizon.net>, "tigers at autox.team.net">??? <tigers at autox.team.net>> Subject: Re: [Tigers] Evans Waterless Cooling> Message-ID: <8EE82D37-2D80-4774-8AAA-C9B6AF6C080E at verizon.net>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"> > Another issue is aluminum versus brass radiators.? Aluminum radiators are lighter but? brass transfers heat more efficiently.> > > When I redid my tiger, I used a three row versus a stock two row brass retai
> ning the top, bottom, and sides so that the fit was not affected.> > Also if you're replacing or having overheating problems, a closed impeller type water pump is much more efficient. Some aftermarket companies sell them already set up this way, but you can buy just the impeller plate from Summit for a very low price and install it yourself. Pumping efficiency is greatly improved.> > TEAE > did a study many years ago on all aspects of cooling. This excellent engineering study is still applicable today and well worth reading, dispelling a lot of myths.> > > Another design problem with the tiger is that there is no lower portion of the fan shroud. As a result, hot air is removed from the radiator then goes down to the ground and circles back through the front of the radiator, at rest.> > > I know this for a fact since I did smoke test and watched the air recirculating.> > I fabricated a lower fan shroud from sheet metal, and made a low cost plastic air dam that comes down about 4 inch
> es, to help> the flow of air through the radiator and continue towards the rear of the car while in motion.> > Bottom line it all works and I don't overheat.> > I have to laugh at the commentos who keeps saying that the V8 takes up so much space that that's why they overheat. Just look at today's cars and how they fill the engine bay and it becomes apparent this is another myth.> >> On Jul 2, 2022, at 10:29 AM, Owain Lloyd <owain.lloyd at gmail.com> wrote:>> >> Yep.? I run in most cars with no problems but in the tiger with the 500hp motor I needed every bit of efficiency possible so had to switch off even back to water and antifreeze.? It worked sort of ok with the dale radiator but then I switched to another brand radiator and it just couldn?t keep the temps down.?? Pretty sure it would be doable with an efficient and lower power motor if all the other cooling problems were taken care of.>> >> Il giorno sab 2 lug 2022 alle 16:05 Buck Trippel via Tigers <tigers at autox.team.net <mailto:
> tigers at autox.team.net>> ha scritto:>> In August of the hot summer of 2019 (aren?t they all hot now?) I put Evans in a Tiger which has an excellent two row aluminum radiator in front of a rather stock 289. My wife and I put the Tiger through an almost 5-thousand mile road test by driving from Los Angeles to La Crosse via I80/I90 to attend the TEAE United and then Route 66 on the way home. Temperatures were frequently at 100 degrees. So it got quite a test.>> >> >> >> The Evans did not boil but with hot outside air temperatures its inferior specific heat (to water) could not remove adequately remove the engine heat. >> >> >> >> The carb got so hot the fuel percolated (boiled) inside the bowls and the engine stalled lean. This weakness was exacerbated at altitudes above 4-thousand feet. In Pueblo, with OATs near 100 I ended up on the same AAA tow truck twice on the same day. I then gave up and reluctantly drained maybe half of the the costly coolant out, replacing it with plain water s
> o I could get home. However the percolation reoccurred crossing the Mojave in the 115 degree August temps. At home I replaced the Evans with water, adding Water Wetter for corrosion protection. >> >> >> >> I don?t have the numbers off the top of my head but the specific heat (or ability to transfer heat) of water is 1.00 while Evans is something like .65 or only 2/3 that of water. For me, Evans just did not do the job. From my experience I?d say one would have to be exceptionally brave to use it, especially with a stock radiator system or with a more powerful engine which will place even more demand on the Tiger?s weak cooling system. (BTW in the Tiger we drove on that trip, we had removed the stock block under the carb that hot radiator fluid passes through which probably have made even more of a problem.)>> >> >> >> Buck Trippel>> >> Ps I wrote up some of this years ago and I believe it contained a more detailed account of Evans heating issues on the trip ? I think it was publishe
> d in both the TEAE and CAT newletters.>> >> >> >> >> >> From: Tigers <tigers-bounces at autox.team.net <mailto:tigers-bounces at autox.team.net>> On Behalf Of Dr. T. Y. McDowell>> Sent: Saturday, July 2, 2022 5:06 AM>> To: Tiger's List <tigers at autox.team.net <mailto:tigers at autox.team.net>>>> Subject: [Tigers] Evans Waterless Cooling>> >> >> >> Is anyone out there in Tigerland using Evans Waterless Coolant? >> >> It has a boiling point of 375 (F).? I'd like to hear from anyone who's using it as I'm considering it. >> >> >> >> Thanks in advance, >> >> >> >> Tym McDowell >> >> _______________________________________________>> >> tigers at autox.team.net <mailto:tigers at autox.team.net>>> >> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html <http://www.team.net/donate.html>>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers <http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers> http://autox.team.net/archive <http://autox.team.net/archive>>> >> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/owain.lloyd at gmail.com <ht
> tp://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/owain.lloyd at gmail.com>>> >> >> _______________________________________________>> >> tigers at autox.team.net <mailto:tigers at autox.team.net>>> >> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html <http://www.team.net/donate.html>>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers <http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers> http://autox.team.net/archive <http://autox.team.net/archive>>> >> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/lpaulick1 at verizon.net <http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/lpaulick1 at verizon.net>> -------------- next part --------------> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...> URL: <http://autox.team.net/pipermail/tigers/attachments/20220702/5d19c1ce/attachment.htm>> > ------------------------------> > Subject: Digest Footer> > _______________________________________________> Tigers mailing list> Tigers at autox.team.net> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers> > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html> Archive: http://www.
> team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive> > > ------------------------------> > End of Tigers Digest, Vol 15, Issue 218> ***************************************_______________________________________________tigers at autox.team.netDonate: http://www.team.net/donate.htmlArchive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archiveUnsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/jimdamelio at verizon.net
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> 
> _______________________________________________
> Tigers mailing list
> Tigers at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers
> 
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> 
> End of Tigers Digest, Vol 15, Issue 221
> ***************************************


From atwittsend at verizon.net  Sat Jul  2 17:13:09 2022
From: atwittsend at verizon.net (Tom Witt)
Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2022 16:13:09 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] Tigers Digest, Vol 15, Issue 218 (Shroud)
In-Reply-To: <5D42C1FB-7A27-4FC3-BBBF-9CAE8C8267C4@cox.net>
References: <556932685.2580126.1656796213542@verizon.net>
 <5D42C1FB-7A27-4FC3-BBBF-9CAE8C8267C4@cox.net>
Message-ID: <841c9d3f-9ed3-39cc-e10e-b9f67f51eeb9@verizon.net>

Years ago I made this lower shroud. I can't remember if it went under or 
over the upper shroud. I have too much junk on top of this "Jackstand 
Queen" to go look but my guess would be on the "outside of." As you can 
see I drilled two holes to attach mounting bolts.? I know I gave it a 
lot of thought? so that was probably the most logical place to secure 
the two sections. The rest was rather tight as I recall. Purist may balk 
at drilling holes in an original shroud but they can easily be filled 
with weld and ground down should that be desirable.

On 7/2/2022 3:12 PM, James Lindner wrote:
> Jim
>
> Here is a pic of a lower shroud I bought years ago. Never put it on. 
> Not really sure how it is suppose to fit. I assume you attach to 
> existing shroud somehow.
>
> Jim L
>
> image0.jpeg
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>> On Jul 2, 2022, at 5:42 PM, Jim D'Amelio via Tigers 
>> <tigers at autox.team.net> wrote:
>>
>> ?
>> James,
>>
>> Would you happen to have any pictures of the lower shroud?
>>
>> Jim D
>>
>>
>>
>> Sent from my Galaxy
>>
>>
>> -------- Original message --------
>> From: JAMES ARMSTRONG via Tigers <tigers at autox.team.net>
>> Date: 7/2/22 3:14 PM (GMT-05:00)
>> To: tigers at autox.team.net
>> Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tigers Digest, Vol 15, Issue 218
>>
>> Hello
>> I met a Canadian guy, I believe from Qu?bec at the 2000 TEAE United 
>> in Rockland Maine. He said he was fabricating Lower fan shrouds.? I 
>> stayed in touch, bought the device, had it installed on the Tiger and 
>> it works quite nicely.
>> My engine is a rebuilt 260 with a comp cam, Edelbrock F4B, 
>> PerTronics, and that?s it. A mild upgrade but the lower fan shroud 
>> does help. For really really hot days, I?ve got a Kenlow pusher fan 
>> and with everything I have no trouble
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> > On Jul 2, 2022, at 12:05 PM, tigers-request at autox.team.net wrote:
>> >
>> > ?Send Tigers mailing list submissions to
>> > tigers at autox.team.net
>> >
>> > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>> > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers
>> > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>> > tigers-request at autox.team.net
>> >
>> > You can reach the person managing the list at
>> > tigers-owner at autox.team.net
>> >
>> > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>> > than "Re: Contents of Tigers digest..."
>> >
>> >
>> > Today's Topics:
>> >
>> >?? 1. Re: Evans Waterless Cooling (Owain Lloyd)
>> >?? 2. Re: Evans Waterless Cooling (LARRY PAULICK)
>> >
>> >
>> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >
>> > Message: 1
>> > Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2022 16:29:17 +0200
>> > From: Owain Lloyd <owain.lloyd at gmail.com>
>> > To: Buck Trippel <bucktrippel at verizon.net>
>> > Cc: "Dr. T. Y. McDowell" <tym2 at comcast.net>, "Tiger's List"
>> > <tigers at autox.team.net>
>> > Subject: Re: [Tigers] Evans Waterless Cooling
>> > Message-ID:
>> > <CANE47iQLDVr=D_km8HR0ofZyQCG2soZ2fKYc2oBq9EpwUSgtoA at mail.gmail.com>
>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>> >
>> > Yep.? I run in most cars with no problems but in the tiger with the 
>> 500hp
>> > motor I needed every bit of efficiency possible so had to switch 
>> off even
>> > back to water and antifreeze.? It worked sort of ok with the dale 
>> radiator
>> > but then I switched to another brand radiator and it just couldn?t 
>> keep the
>> > temps down.?? Pretty sure it would be doable with an efficient and 
>> lower
>> > power motor if all the other cooling problems were taken care of.
>> >
>> > Il giorno sab 2 lug 2022 alle 16:05 Buck Trippel via Tigers <
>> > tigers at autox.team.net> ha scritto:
>> >
>> >> In August of the hot summer of 2019 (aren?t they all hot now?) I 
>> put Evans
>> >> in a Tiger which has an excellent two row aluminum radiator in 
>> front of a
>> >> rather stock 289. My wife and I put the Tiger through an almost 
>> 5-thousand
>> >> mile road test by driving from Los Angeles to La Crosse via I80/I90 to
>> >> attend the TEAE United and then Route 66 on the way home. 
>> Temperatures were
>> >> frequently at 100 degrees. So it got quite a test.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> The Evans did not boil but with hot outside air temperatures its 
>> inferior
>> >> specific heat (to water) could not remove adequately remove the engine
>> >> heat.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> The carb got so hot the fuel percolated (boiled) inside the bowls 
>> and the
>> >> engine stalled lean. This weakness was exacerbated at altitudes above
>> >> 4-thousand feet. In Pueblo, with OATs near 100 I ended up on the 
>> same AAA
>> >> tow truck twice on the same day. I then gave up and reluctantly 
>> drained
>> >> maybe half of the the costly coolant out, replacing it with plain 
>> water so
>> >> I could get home. However the percolation reoccurred crossing the 
>> Mojave in
>> >> the 115 degree August temps. At home I replaced the Evans with water,
>> >> adding Water Wetter for corrosion protection.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> I don?t have the numbers off the top of my head but the specific 
>> heat (or
>> >> ability to transfer heat) of water is 1.00 while Evans is 
>> something like
>> >> .65 or only 2/3 that of water. For me, Evans just did not do the 
>> job. From
>> >> my experience I?d say one would have to be exceptionally brave to 
>> use it,
>> >> especially with a stock radiator system or with a more powerful engine
>> >> which will place even more demand on the Tiger?s weak cooling 
>> system. (BTW
>> >> in the Tiger we drove on that trip, we had removed the stock block 
>> under
>> >> the carb that hot radiator fluid passes through which probably 
>> have made
>> >> even more of a problem.)
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Buck Trippel
>> >>
>> >> Ps I wrote up some of this years ago and I believe it contained a more
>> >> detailed account of Evans heating issues on the trip ? I think it was
>> >> published in both the TEAE and CAT newletters.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> *From:* Tigers <tigers-bounces at autox.team.net> *On Behalf Of *Dr. 
>> T. Y.
>> >> McDowell
>> >> *Sent:* Saturday, July 2, 2022 5:06 AM
>> >> *To:* Tiger's List <tigers at autox.team.net>
>> >> *Subject:* [Tigers] Evans Waterless Cooling
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Is anyone out there in Tigerland using Evans Waterless Coolant?
>> >>
>> >> It has a boiling point of 375 (F).? I'd like to hear from anyone who's
>> >> using it as I'm considering it.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Thanks in advance,
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Tym McDowell
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >>
>> >> tigers at autox.team.net
>> >>
>> >> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>> >> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers
>> >> http://autox.team.net/archive
>> >>
>> >> Unsubscribe:
>> >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/owain.lloyd at gmail.com
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> > -------------- next part --------------
>> > An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>> > URL: 
>> <http://autox.team.net/pipermail/tigers/attachments/20220702/fd9385ca/attachment-0001.htm>
>> >
>> > ------------------------------
>> >
>> > Message: 2
>> > Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2022 11:35:56 -0400
>> > From: LARRY PAULICK <lpaulick1 at verizon.net>
>> > To: owain.lloyd at gmail.com
>> > Cc: Buck Trippel <bucktrippel at verizon.net>, "tigers at autox.team.net"
>> > <tigers at autox.team.net>
>> > Subject: Re: [Tigers] Evans Waterless Cooling
>> > Message-ID: <8EE82D37-2D80-4774-8AAA-C9B6AF6C080E at verizon.net>
>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>> >
>> > Another issue is aluminum versus brass radiators. Aluminum 
>> radiators are lighter but? brass transfers heat more efficiently.
>> >
>> >
>> > When I redid my tiger, I used a three row versus a stock two row 
>> brass retaining the top, bottom, and sides so that the fit was not 
>> affected.
>> >
>> > Also if you're replacing or having overheating problems, a closed 
>> impeller type water pump is much more efficient. Some aftermarket 
>> companies sell them already set up this way, but you can buy just the 
>> impeller plate from Summit for a very low price and install it 
>> yourself. Pumping efficiency is greatly improved.
>> >
>> > TEAE
>> > did a study many years ago on all aspects of cooling. This 
>> excellent engineering study is still applicable today and well worth 
>> reading, dispelling a lot of myths.
>> >
>> >
>> > Another design problem with the tiger is that there is no lower 
>> portion of the fan shroud. As a result, hot air is removed from the 
>> radiator then goes down to the ground and circles back through the 
>> front of the radiator, at rest.
>> >
>> >
>> > I know this for a fact since I did smoke test and watched the air 
>> recirculating.
>> >
>> > I fabricated a lower fan shroud from sheet metal, and made a low 
>> cost plastic air dam that comes down about 4 inches, to help
>> > the flow of air through the radiator and continue towards the rear 
>> of the car while in motion.
>> >
>> > Bottom line it all works and I don't overheat.
>> >
>> > I have to laugh at the commentos who keeps saying that the V8 takes 
>> up so much space that that's why they overheat. Just look at today's 
>> cars and how they fill the engine bay and it becomes apparent this is 
>> another myth.
>> >
>> >> On Jul 2, 2022, at 10:29 AM, Owain Lloyd <owain.lloyd at gmail.com> 
>> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Yep.? I run in most cars with no problems but in the tiger with 
>> the 500hp motor I needed every bit of efficiency possible so had to 
>> switch off even back to water and antifreeze.? It worked sort of ok 
>> with the dale radiator but then I switched to another brand radiator 
>> and it just couldn?t keep the temps down.?? Pretty sure it would be 
>> doable with an efficient and lower power motor if all the other 
>> cooling problems were taken care of.
>> >>
>> >> Il giorno sab 2 lug 2022 alle 16:05 Buck Trippel via Tigers 
>> <tigers at autox.team.net <mailto:tigers at autox.team.net>> ha scritto:
>> >> In August of the hot summer of 2019 (aren?t they all hot now?) I 
>> put Evans in a Tiger which has an excellent two row aluminum radiator 
>> in front of a rather stock 289. My wife and I put the Tiger through 
>> an almost 5-thousand mile road test by driving from Los Angeles to La 
>> Crosse via I80/I90 to attend the TEAE United and then Route 66 on the 
>> way home. Temperatures were frequently at 100 degrees. So it got 
>> quite a test.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> The Evans did not boil but with hot outside air temperatures its 
>> inferior specific heat (to water) could not remove adequately remove 
>> the engine heat.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> The carb got so hot the fuel percolated (boiled) inside the bowls 
>> and the engine stalled lean. This weakness was exacerbated at 
>> altitudes above 4-thousand feet. In Pueblo, with OATs near 100 I 
>> ended up on the same AAA tow truck twice on the same day. I then gave 
>> up and reluctantly drained maybe half of the the costly coolant out, 
>> replacing it with plain water so I could get home. However the 
>> percolation reoccurred crossing the Mojave in the 115 degree August 
>> temps. At home I replaced the Evans with water, adding Water Wetter 
>> for corrosion protection.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> I don?t have the numbers off the top of my head but the specific 
>> heat (or ability to transfer heat) of water is 1.00 while Evans is 
>> something like .65 or only 2/3 that of water. For me, Evans just did 
>> not do the job. From my experience I?d say one would have to be 
>> exceptionally brave to use it, especially with a stock radiator 
>> system or with a more powerful engine which will place even more 
>> demand on the Tiger?s weak cooling system. (BTW in the Tiger we drove 
>> on that trip, we had removed the stock block under the carb that hot 
>> radiator fluid passes through which probably have made even more of a 
>> problem.)
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Buck Trippel
>> >>
>> >> Ps I wrote up some of this years ago and I believe it contained a 
>> more detailed account of Evans heating issues on the trip ? I think 
>> it was published in both the TEAE and CAT newletters.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> From: Tigers <tigers-bounces at autox.team.net 
>> <mailto:tigers-bounces at autox.team.net>> On Behalf Of Dr. T. Y. McDowell
>> >> Sent: Saturday, July 2, 2022 5:06 AM
>> >> To: Tiger's List <tigers at autox.team.net 
>> <mailto:tigers at autox.team.net>>
>> >> Subject: [Tigers] Evans Waterless Cooling
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Is anyone out there in Tigerland using Evans Waterless Coolant?
>> >>
>> >> It has a boiling point of 375 (F).? I'd like to hear from anyone 
>> who's using it as I'm considering it.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Thanks in advance,
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Tym McDowell
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >>
>> >> tigers at autox.team.net <mailto:tigers at autox.team.net>
>> >>
>> >> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html 
>> <http://www.team.net/donate.html>
>> >> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers 
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From lpaulick1 at verizon.net  Sat Jul  2 17:22:41 2022
From: lpaulick1 at verizon.net (LARRY PAULICK)
Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2022 19:22:41 -0400
Subject: [Tigers] Tigers Digest, Vol 15, Issue 218
In-Reply-To: <9FBF1F31-1CEE-43A7-9B6C-8EEB4A6AB4E8@aol.com>
References: <mailman.301.1656776176.24409.tigers@autox.team.net>
 <9FBF1F31-1CEE-43A7-9B6C-8EEB4A6AB4E8@aol.com>
Message-ID: <7717F0CC-83DE-4B0C-8A0B-97FBA209D7FE@verizon.net>

Evan sounds like it only addresses boiling but that's not the issue, it's cooling, and with those high temperatures, the oil is starting to deteriorate as well, now you're into a whole new list of problems.

Again if you have not read the TEAE article, it gets to the heart of the issue which is effective cooling and ways to do it. 

> On Jul 2, 2022, at 2:14 PM, JAMES ARMSTRONG via Tigers <tigers at autox.team.net> wrote:
> 
> Hello
> I met a Canadian guy, I believe from Qu?bec at the 2000 TEAE United in Rockland Maine. He said he was fabricating Lower fan shrouds.  I stayed in touch, bought the device, had it installed on the Tiger and it works quite nicely.
> My engine is a rebuilt 260 with a comp cam, Edelbrock F4B, PerTronics, and that?s it. A mild upgrade but the lower fan shroud does help. For really really hot days, I?ve got a Kenlow pusher fan and with everything I have no trouble
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Jul 2, 2022, at 12:05 PM, tigers-request at autox.team.net wrote:
>> 
>> ?Send Tigers mailing list submissions to
>>   tigers at autox.team.net
>> 
>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>>   http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers
>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
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>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>> than "Re: Contents of Tigers digest..."
>> 
>> 
>> Today's Topics:
>> 
>>  1. Re: Evans Waterless Cooling (Owain Lloyd)
>>  2. Re: Evans Waterless Cooling (LARRY PAULICK)
>> 
>> 
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> 
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2022 16:29:17 +0200
>> From: Owain Lloyd <owain.lloyd at gmail.com>
>> To: Buck Trippel <bucktrippel at verizon.net>
>> Cc: "Dr. T. Y. McDowell" <tym2 at comcast.net>, "Tiger's List"
>>   <tigers at autox.team.net>
>> Subject: Re: [Tigers] Evans Waterless Cooling
>> Message-ID:
>>   <CANE47iQLDVr=D_km8HR0ofZyQCG2soZ2fKYc2oBq9EpwUSgtoA at mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>> 
>> Yep.  I run in most cars with no problems but in the tiger with the 500hp
>> motor I needed every bit of efficiency possible so had to switch off even
>> back to water and antifreeze.  It worked sort of ok with the dale radiator
>> but then I switched to another brand radiator and it just couldn?t keep the
>> temps down.   Pretty sure it would be doable with an efficient and lower
>> power motor if all the other cooling problems were taken care of.
>> 
>> Il giorno sab 2 lug 2022 alle 16:05 Buck Trippel via Tigers <
>> tigers at autox.team.net> ha scritto:
>> 
>>> In August of the hot summer of 2019 (aren?t they all hot now?) I put Evans
>>> in a Tiger which has an excellent two row aluminum radiator in front of a
>>> rather stock 289. My wife and I put the Tiger through an almost 5-thousand
>>> mile road test by driving from Los Angeles to La Crosse via I80/I90 to
>>> attend the TEAE United and then Route 66 on the way home. Temperatures were
>>> frequently at 100 degrees. So it got quite a test.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> The Evans did not boil but with hot outside air temperatures its inferior
>>> specific heat (to water) could not remove adequately remove the engine
>>> heat.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> The carb got so hot the fuel percolated (boiled) inside the bowls and the
>>> engine stalled lean. This weakness was exacerbated at altitudes above
>>> 4-thousand feet. In Pueblo, with OATs near 100 I ended up on the same AAA
>>> tow truck twice on the same day. I then gave up and reluctantly drained
>>> maybe half of the the costly coolant out, replacing it with plain water so
>>> I could get home. However the percolation reoccurred crossing the Mojave in
>>> the 115 degree August temps. At home I replaced the Evans with water,
>>> adding Water Wetter for corrosion protection.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> I don?t have the numbers off the top of my head but the specific heat (or
>>> ability to transfer heat) of water is 1.00 while Evans is something like
>>> .65 or only 2/3 that of water. For me, Evans just did not do the job. From
>>> my experience I?d say one would have to be exceptionally brave to use it,
>>> especially with a stock radiator system or with a more powerful engine
>>> which will place even more demand on the Tiger?s weak cooling system. (BTW
>>> in the Tiger we drove on that trip, we had removed the stock block under
>>> the carb that hot radiator fluid passes through which probably have made
>>> even more of a problem.)
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Buck Trippel
>>> 
>>> Ps I wrote up some of this years ago and I believe it contained a more
>>> detailed account of Evans heating issues on the trip ? I think it was
>>> published in both the TEAE and CAT newletters.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> *From:* Tigers <tigers-bounces at autox.team.net> *On Behalf Of *Dr. T. Y.
>>> McDowell
>>> *Sent:* Saturday, July 2, 2022 5:06 AM
>>> *To:* Tiger's List <tigers at autox.team.net>
>>> *Subject:* [Tigers] Evans Waterless Cooling
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Is anyone out there in Tigerland using Evans Waterless Coolant?
>>> 
>>> It has a boiling point of 375 (F).  I'd like to hear from anyone who's
>>> using it as I'm considering it.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Thanks in advance,
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Tym McDowell
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> 
>>> tigers at autox.team.net
>>> 
>>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers
>>> http://autox.team.net/archive
>>> 
>>> Unsubscribe:
>>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/owain.lloyd at gmail.com
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
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>> ------------------------------
>> 
>> Message: 2
>> Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2022 11:35:56 -0400
>> From: LARRY PAULICK <lpaulick1 at verizon.net>
>> To: owain.lloyd at gmail.com
>> Cc: Buck Trippel <bucktrippel at verizon.net>, "tigers at autox.team.net"
>>   <tigers at autox.team.net>
>> Subject: Re: [Tigers] Evans Waterless Cooling
>> Message-ID: <8EE82D37-2D80-4774-8AAA-C9B6AF6C080E at verizon.net>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>> 
>> Another issue is aluminum versus brass radiators.  Aluminum radiators are lighter but  brass transfers heat more efficiently.
>> 
>> 
>> When I redid my tiger, I used a three row versus a stock two row brass retaining the top, bottom, and sides so that the fit was not affected.
>> 
>> Also if you're replacing or having overheating problems, a closed impeller type water pump is much more efficient. Some aftermarket companies sell them already set up this way, but you can buy just the impeller plate from Summit for a very low price and install it yourself. Pumping efficiency is greatly improved.
>> 
>> TEAE 
>> did a study many years ago on all aspects of cooling. This excellent engineering study is still applicable today and well worth reading, dispelling a lot of myths.
>> 
>> 
>> Another design problem with the tiger is that there is no lower portion of the fan shroud. As a result, hot air is removed from the radiator then goes down to the ground and circles back through the front of the radiator, at rest.
>> 
>> 
>> I know this for a fact since I did smoke test and watched the air recirculating.
>> 
>> I fabricated a lower fan shroud from sheet metal, and made a low cost plastic air dam that comes down about 4 inches, to help
>> the flow of air through the radiator and continue towards the rear of the car while in motion.
>> 
>> Bottom line it all works and I don't overheat.
>> 
>> I have to laugh at the commentos who keeps saying that the V8 takes up so much space that that's why they overheat. Just look at today's cars and how they fill the engine bay and it becomes apparent this is another myth.
>> 
>>> On Jul 2, 2022, at 10:29 AM, Owain Lloyd <owain.lloyd at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Yep.  I run in most cars with no problems but in the tiger with the 500hp motor I needed every bit of efficiency possible so had to switch off even back to water and antifreeze.  It worked sort of ok with the dale radiator but then I switched to another brand radiator and it just couldn?t keep the temps down.   Pretty sure it would be doable with an efficient and lower power motor if all the other cooling problems were taken care of.
>>> 
>>> Il giorno sab 2 lug 2022 alle 16:05 Buck Trippel via Tigers <tigers at autox.team.net <mailto:tigers at autox.team.net>> ha scritto:
>>> In August of the hot summer of 2019 (aren?t they all hot now?) I put Evans in a Tiger which has an excellent two row aluminum radiator in front of a rather stock 289. My wife and I put the Tiger through an almost 5-thousand mile road test by driving from Los Angeles to La Crosse via I80/I90 to attend the TEAE United and then Route 66 on the way home. Temperatures were frequently at 100 degrees. So it got quite a test.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> The Evans did not boil but with hot outside air temperatures its inferior specific heat (to water) could not remove adequately remove the engine heat. 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> The carb got so hot the fuel percolated (boiled) inside the bowls and the engine stalled lean. This weakness was exacerbated at altitudes above 4-thousand feet. In Pueblo, with OATs near 100 I ended up on the same AAA tow truck twice on the same day. I then gave up and reluctantly drained maybe half of the the costly coolant out, replacing it with plain water so I could get home. However the percolation reoccurred crossing the Mojave in the 115 degree August temps. At home I replaced the Evans with water, adding Water Wetter for corrosion protection. 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> I don?t have the numbers off the top of my head but the specific heat (or ability to transfer heat) of water is 1.00 while Evans is something like .65 or only 2/3 that of water. For me, Evans just did not do the job. From my experience I?d say one would have to be exceptionally brave to use it, especially with a stock radiator system or with a more powerful engine which will place even more demand on the Tiger?s weak cooling system. (BTW in the Tiger we drove on that trip, we had removed the stock block under the carb that hot radiator fluid passes through which probably have made even more of a problem.)
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Buck Trippel
>>> 
>>> Ps I wrote up some of this years ago and I believe it contained a more detailed account of Evans heating issues on the trip ? I think it was published in both the TEAE and CAT newletters.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> From: Tigers <tigers-bounces at autox.team.net <mailto:tigers-bounces at autox.team.net>> On Behalf Of Dr. T. Y. McDowell
>>> Sent: Saturday, July 2, 2022 5:06 AM
>>> To: Tiger's List <tigers at autox.team.net <mailto:tigers at autox.team.net>>
>>> Subject: [Tigers] Evans Waterless Cooling
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Is anyone out there in Tigerland using Evans Waterless Coolant? 
>>> 
>>> It has a boiling point of 375 (F).  I'd like to hear from anyone who's using it as I'm considering it. 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Thanks in advance, 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Tym McDowell 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> 
>>> tigers at autox.team.net <mailto:tigers at autox.team.net>
>>> 
>>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html <http://www.team.net/donate.html>
>>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers <http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers> http://autox.team.net/archive <http://autox.team.net/archive>
>>> 
>>> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/owain.lloyd at gmail.com <http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/owain.lloyd at gmail.com>
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> 
>>> tigers at autox.team.net <mailto:tigers at autox.team.net>
>>> 
>>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html <http://www.team.net/donate.html>
>>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers <http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers> http://autox.team.net/archive <http://autox.team.net/archive>
>>> 
>>> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/lpaulick1 at verizon.net <http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/lpaulick1 at verizon.net>
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>> 
>> End of Tigers Digest, Vol 15, Issue 218
>> ***************************************
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 
> tigers at autox.team.net
> 
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive
> 
> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/lpaulick1 at verizon.net
> 
> 


From rollright at aol.com  Sat Jul  2 20:22:31 2022
From: rollright at aol.com (JAMES ARMSTRONG)
Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2022 22:22:31 -0400
Subject: [Tigers] Lower fan shroud
References: <C93D3032-B557-4BB8-B8CB-7D0730EB33D9.ref@aol.com>
Message-ID: <C93D3032-B557-4BB8-B8CB-7D0730EB33D9@aol.com>

Jim
That Picture certainly looks like the piece that I got. Looks like you?d have to drill a couple holes on each side and there?s a tab in the center to steady it. But that?s essentially it. Might be helpful to have a few more snapshots though.
Jim Armstrong 

Sent from my iPhone

From owain.lloyd at gmail.com  Sat Jul  2 22:11:22 2022
From: owain.lloyd at gmail.com (Owain Lloyd)
Date: Sun, 3 Jul 2022 06:11:22 +0200
Subject: [Tigers] Evans Waterless Cooling
In-Reply-To: <0d2f01d88e50$3cc65b70$b6531250$@verizon.net>
References: <330435248.1310662.1656763572024@connect.xfinity.com>
 <04ea01d88e1c$0112d6f0$033884d0$@verizon.net>
 <CANE47iQLDVr=D_km8HR0ofZyQCG2soZ2fKYc2oBq9EpwUSgtoA@mail.gmail.com>
 <8EE82D37-2D80-4774-8AAA-C9B6AF6C080E@verizon.net>
 <CANE47iSsP0z1mN0ZkWfteaUqDrcORdJ9orCP_Trf3kd1cBOt2g@mail.gmail.com>
 <0d2f01d88e50$3cc65b70$b6531250$@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <CANE47iSeQESwzWbQf6JRj+k+OFZ3hsMmgQN+cPGZrcLGmiExXg@mail.gmail.com>

Buck, I live in the southern alps :)
40 Celsius and 2500m.  But was doing the same at normal temps and altitudes.

Il giorno sab 2 lug 2022 alle 22:13 Buck Trippel <bucktrippel at verizon.net>
ha scritto:

> Owain, have you encountered either high outside air temps or high
> altitudes when using Evans in your Tiger?
>
>
>
> Buck
>
>
>
> *From:* Owain Lloyd <owain.lloyd at gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Saturday, July 2, 2022 8:42 AM
> *To:* LARRY PAULICK <lpaulick1 at verizon.net>
> *Cc:* Buck Trippel <bucktrippel at verizon.net>; tigers at autox.team.net
> *Subject:* Re: [Tigers] Evans Waterless Cooling
>
>
>
> Assuming all those things are done, evans is still not quite up to the job
> in my car.  Most of those cooling tricks are for slow moving car.  My car
> ran too hot even at speed with evans and the less than perfect radiator.
> As I said, with a better radiator or with water instead it is fine.
>
>
>
> My reason for preferring brass is that it can be easily soldered.  I
> struggled on for a long time with my brass radiator but eventually it was
> just too stress fatigued and needed frequent repair.  If I could get a new
> brass one I would certainly prefer that.
>
>
>
> Il giorno sab 2 lug 2022 alle 17:36 LARRY PAULICK <lpaulick1 at verizon.net>
> ha scritto:
>
> Another issue is aluminum versus brass radiators.  Aluminum radiators are
> lighter but  brass transfers heat more efficiently.
>
>
>
> When I redid my tiger, I used a three row versus a stock two row brass
> retaining the top, bottom, and sides so that the fit was not affected.
>
>
>
> Also if you're replacing or having overheating problems, a closed impeller
> type water pump is much more efficient. Some aftermarket companies sell
> them already set up this way, but you can buy just the impeller plate from
> Summit for a very low price and install it yourself. Pumping efficiency is
> greatly improved.
>
>
>
> TEAE did a study many years ago on all aspects of cooling. This excellent
> engineering study is still applicable today and well worth reading,
> dispelling a lot of myths.
>
>
>
> Another design problem with the tiger is that there is no lower portion of
> the fan shroud. As a result, hot air is removed from the radiator then goes
> down to the ground and circles back through the front of the radiator, at
> rest.
>
>
>
> I know this for a fact since I did smoke test and watched the air
> recirculating.
>
>
>
> I fabricated a lower fan shroud from sheet metal, and made a low cost
> plastic air dam that comes down about 4 inches, to help the flow of air
> through the radiator and continue towards the rear of the car while in
> motion.
>
>
>
> Bottom line it all works and I don't overheat.
>
>
>
> I have to laugh at the commentos who keeps saying that the V8 takes up so
> much space that that's why they overheat. Just look at today's cars and how
> they fill the engine bay and it becomes apparent this is another myth.
>
>
>
> On Jul 2, 2022, at 10:29 AM, Owain Lloyd <owain.lloyd at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> Yep.  I run in most cars with no problems but in the tiger with the 500hp
> motor I needed every bit of efficiency possible so had to switch off even
> back to water and antifreeze.  It worked sort of ok with the dale radiator
> but then I switched to another brand radiator and it just couldn?t keep the
> temps down.   Pretty sure it would be doable with an efficient and lower
> power motor if all the other cooling problems were taken care of.
>
>
>
> Il giorno sab 2 lug 2022 alle 16:05 Buck Trippel via Tigers <
> tigers at autox.team.net> ha scritto:
>
> In August of the hot summer of 2019 (aren?t they all hot now?) I put Evans
> in a Tiger which has an excellent two row aluminum radiator in front of a
> rather stock 289. My wife and I put the Tiger through an almost 5-thousand
> mile road test by driving from Los Angeles to La Crosse via I80/I90 to
> attend the TEAE United and then Route 66 on the way home. Temperatures were
> frequently at 100 degrees. So it got quite a test.
>
>
>
> The Evans did not boil but with hot outside air temperatures its inferior
> specific heat (to water) could not remove adequately remove the engine
> heat.
>
>
>
> The carb got so hot the fuel percolated (boiled) inside the bowls and the
> engine stalled lean. This weakness was exacerbated at altitudes above
> 4-thousand feet. In Pueblo, with OATs near 100 I ended up on the same AAA
> tow truck twice on the same day. I then gave up and reluctantly drained
> maybe half of the the costly coolant out, replacing it with plain water so
> I could get home. However the percolation reoccurred crossing the Mojave in
> the 115 degree August temps. At home I replaced the Evans with water,
> adding Water Wetter for corrosion protection.
>
>
>
> I don?t have the numbers off the top of my head but the specific heat (or
> ability to transfer heat) of water is 1.00 while Evans is something like
> .65 or only 2/3 that of water. For me, Evans just did not do the job. From
> my experience I?d say one would have to be exceptionally brave to use it,
> especially with a stock radiator system or with a more powerful engine
> which will place even more demand on the Tiger?s weak cooling system. (BTW
> in the Tiger we drove on that trip, we had removed the stock block under
> the carb that hot radiator fluid passes through which probably have made
> even more of a problem.)
>
>
>
> Buck Trippel
>
> Ps I wrote up some of this years ago and I believe it contained a more
> detailed account of Evans heating issues on the trip ? I think it was
> published in both the TEAE and CAT newletters.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Tigers <tigers-bounces at autox.team.net> *On Behalf Of *Dr. T. Y.
> McDowell
> *Sent:* Saturday, July 2, 2022 5:06 AM
> *To:* Tiger's List <tigers at autox.team.net>
> *Subject:* [Tigers] Evans Waterless Cooling
>
>
>
> Is anyone out there in Tigerland using Evans Waterless Coolant?
>
> It has a boiling point of 375 (F).  I'd like to hear from anyone who's
> using it as I'm considering it.
>
>
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
>
>
> Tym McDowell
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> tigers at autox.team.net
>
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers
> http://autox.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/owain.lloyd at gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> tigers at autox.team.net
>
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From drmayf at mayfco.com  Sun Jul  3 06:15:31 2022
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (Larry Mayfield)
Date: Sun, 3 Jul 2022 05:15:31 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] Evans Waterless Cooling
In-Reply-To: <CANE47iQLDVr=D_km8HR0ofZyQCG2soZ2fKYc2oBq9EpwUSgtoA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <330435248.1310662.1656763572024@connect.xfinity.com>
 <04ea01d88e1c$0112d6f0$033884d0$@verizon.net>
 <CANE47iQLDVr=D_km8HR0ofZyQCG2soZ2fKYc2oBq9EpwUSgtoA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <000e01d88ed6$99aa73e0$ccff5ba0$@mayfco.com>

You, bit of anti-freeze to keep the corrosion at bay, and a smidge of Red Line water wetter to keep nucleate boiling down ( it is a surfactant which increases the water ability to wet the water passage walls. I suspect that a higher flow volume and but lower flow rate would help the Evans, goo work a bit better. Has to have time to make up the loss of heat capacity. And higher vol to keep the temp as cool as it can bee cause cold attract heat?

 

So to speak

 

mayf

 

From: Tigers <tigers-bounces at autox.team.net> On Behalf Of Owain Lloyd
Sent: Saturday, July 2, 2022 7:29 AM
To: Buck Trippel <bucktrippel at verizon.net>
Cc: Tiger's List <tigers at autox.team.net>
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Evans Waterless Cooling

 

Yep.  I run in most cars with no problems but in the tiger with the 500hp motor I needed every bit of efficiency possible so had to switch off even back to water and antifreeze.  It worked sort of ok with the dale radiator but then I switched to another brand radiator and it just couldn?t keep the temps down.   Pretty sure it would be doable with an efficient and lower power motor if all the other cooling problems were taken care of.

 

Il giorno sab 2 lug 2022 alle 16:05 Buck Trippel via Tigers <tigers at autox.team.net <mailto:tigers at autox.team.net> > ha scritto:

In August of the hot summer of 2019 (aren?t they all hot now?) I put Evans in a Tiger which has an excellent two row aluminum radiator in front of a rather stock 289. My wife and I put the Tiger through an almost 5-thousand mile road test by driving from Los Angeles to La Crosse via I80/I90 to attend the TEAE United and then Route 66 on the way home. Temperatures were frequently at 100 degrees. So it got quite a test.

 

The Evans did not boil but with hot outside air temperatures its inferior specific heat (to water) could not remove adequately remove the engine heat. 

 

The carb got so hot the fuel percolated (boiled) inside the bowls and the engine stalled lean. This weakness was exacerbated at altitudes above 4-thousand feet. In Pueblo, with OATs near 100 I ended up on the same AAA tow truck twice on the same day. I then gave up and reluctantly drained maybe half of the the costly coolant out, replacing it with plain water so I could get home. However the percolation reoccurred crossing the Mojave in the 115 degree August temps. At home I replaced the Evans with water, adding Water Wetter for corrosion protection. 

 

I don?t have the numbers off the top of my head but the specific heat (or ability to transfer heat) of water is 1.00 while Evans is something like .65 or only 2/3 that of water. For me, Evans just did not do the job. From my experience I?d say one would have to be exceptionally brave to use it, especially with a stock radiator system or with a more powerful engine which will place even more demand on the Tiger?s weak cooling system. (BTW in the Tiger we drove on that trip, we had removed the stock block under the carb that hot radiator fluid passes through which probably have made even more of a problem.)

 

Buck Trippel

Ps I wrote up some of this years ago and I believe it contained a more detailed account of Evans heating issues on the trip ? I think it was published in both the TEAE and CAT newletters.

 

 

From: Tigers <tigers-bounces at autox.team.net <mailto:tigers-bounces at autox.team.net> > On Behalf Of Dr. T. Y. McDowell
Sent: Saturday, July 2, 2022 5:06 AM
To: Tiger's List <tigers at autox.team.net <mailto:tigers at autox.team.net> >
Subject: [Tigers] Evans Waterless Cooling

 

Is anyone out there in Tigerland using Evans Waterless Coolant? 

It has a boiling point of 375 (F).  I'd like to hear from anyone who's using it as I'm considering it. 

 

Thanks in advance, 

 

Tym McDowell 

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From lpaulick1 at verizon.net  Sun Jul  3 07:39:42 2022
From: lpaulick1 at verizon.net (LARRY PAULICK)
Date: Sun, 3 Jul 2022 09:39:42 -0400
Subject: [Tigers] Evans Waterless Cooling
In-Reply-To: <CANE47iSeQESwzWbQf6JRj+k+OFZ3hsMmgQN+cPGZrcLGmiExXg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <330435248.1310662.1656763572024@connect.xfinity.com>
 <04ea01d88e1c$0112d6f0$033884d0$@verizon.net>
 <CANE47iQLDVr=D_km8HR0ofZyQCG2soZ2fKYc2oBq9EpwUSgtoA@mail.gmail.com>
 <8EE82D37-2D80-4774-8AAA-C9B6AF6C080E@verizon.net>
 <CANE47iSsP0z1mN0ZkWfteaUqDrcORdJ9orCP_Trf3kd1cBOt2g@mail.gmail.com>
 <0d2f01d88e50$3cc65b70$b6531250$@verizon.net>
 <CANE47iSeQESwzWbQf6JRj+k+OFZ3hsMmgQN+cPGZrcLGmiExXg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <DCB0ABA1-583F-48CE-B4EF-ECD6FC5A6AD4@verizon.net>

Dr. M, 
check the Tigers East Alpine East website or do a web search for Tiger Tom and tiger cooling study.  This is a good starting point for finding that study, others may have a direct source.

> On Jul 3, 2022, at 12:11 AM, Owain Lloyd <owain.lloyd at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Buck, I live in the southern alps :)
> 40 Celsius and 2500m.  But was doing the same at normal temps and altitudes.
> 
> Il giorno sab 2 lug 2022 alle 22:13 Buck Trippel <bucktrippel at verizon.net <mailto:bucktrippel at verizon.net>> ha scritto:
> Owain, have you encountered either high outside air temps or high altitudes when using Evans in your Tiger?
> 
>  
> 
> Buck
> 
>  
> 
> From: Owain Lloyd <owain.lloyd at gmail.com <mailto:owain.lloyd at gmail.com>> 
> Sent: Saturday, July 2, 2022 8:42 AM
> To: LARRY PAULICK <lpaulick1 at verizon.net <mailto:lpaulick1 at verizon.net>>
> Cc: Buck Trippel <bucktrippel at verizon.net <mailto:bucktrippel at verizon.net>>; tigers at autox.team.net <mailto:tigers at autox.team.net>
> Subject: Re: [Tigers] Evans Waterless Cooling
> 
>  
> 
> Assuming all those things are done, evans is still not quite up to the job in my car.  Most of those cooling tricks are for slow moving car.  My car ran too hot even at speed with evans and the less than perfect radiator.  As I said, with a better radiator or with water instead it is fine.
> 
>  
> 
> My reason for preferring brass is that it can be easily soldered.  I struggled on for a long time with my brass radiator but eventually it was just too stress fatigued and needed frequent repair.  If I could get a new brass one I would certainly prefer that.
> 
>  
> 
> Il giorno sab 2 lug 2022 alle 17:36 LARRY PAULICK <lpaulick1 at verizon.net <mailto:lpaulick1 at verizon.net>> ha scritto:
> 
> Another issue is aluminum versus brass radiators.  Aluminum radiators are lighter but  brass transfers heat more efficiently.
> 
>  
> 
> When I redid my tiger, I used a three row versus a stock two row brass retaining the top, bottom, and sides so that the fit was not affected.
> 
>  
> 
> Also if you're replacing or having overheating problems, a closed impeller type water pump is much more efficient. Some aftermarket companies sell them already set up this way, but you can buy just the impeller plate from Summit for a very low price and install it yourself. Pumping efficiency is greatly improved.
> 
>  
> 
> TEAE did a study many years ago on all aspects of cooling. This excellent engineering study is still applicable today and well worth reading, dispelling a lot of myths.
> 
>  
> 
> Another design problem with the tiger is that there is no lower portion of the fan shroud. As a result, hot air is removed from the radiator then goes down to the ground and circles back through the front of the radiator, at rest.
> 
>  
> 
> I know this for a fact since I did smoke test and watched the air recirculating.
> 
>  
> 
> I fabricated a lower fan shroud from sheet metal, and made a low cost plastic air dam that comes down about 4 inches, to help the flow of air through the radiator and continue towards the rear of the car while in motion.
> 
>  
> 
> Bottom line it all works and I don't overheat.
> 
>  
> 
> I have to laugh at the commentos who keeps saying that the V8 takes up so much space that that's why they overheat. Just look at today's cars and how they fill the engine bay and it becomes apparent this is another myth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Jul 2, 2022, at 10:29 AM, Owain Lloyd <owain.lloyd at gmail.com <mailto:owain.lloyd at gmail.com>> wrote:
> 
>  
> 
> Yep.  I run in most cars with no problems but in the tiger with the 500hp motor I needed every bit of efficiency possible so had to switch off even back to water and antifreeze.  It worked sort of ok with the dale radiator but then I switched to another brand radiator and it just couldn?t keep the temps down.   Pretty sure it would be doable with an efficient and lower power motor if all the other cooling problems were taken care of.
> 
>  
> 
> Il giorno sab 2 lug 2022 alle 16:05 Buck Trippel via Tigers <tigers at autox.team.net <mailto:tigers at autox.team.net>> ha scritto:
> 
> In August of the hot summer of 2019 (aren?t they all hot now?) I put Evans in a Tiger which has an excellent two row aluminum radiator in front of a rather stock 289. My wife and I put the Tiger through an almost 5-thousand mile road test by driving from Los Angeles to La Crosse via I80/I90 to attend the TEAE United and then Route 66 on the way home. Temperatures were frequently at 100 degrees. So it got quite a test.
> 
>  
> 
> The Evans did not boil but with hot outside air temperatures its inferior specific heat (to water) could not remove adequately remove the engine heat. 
> 
>  
> 
> The carb got so hot the fuel percolated (boiled) inside the bowls and the engine stalled lean. This weakness was exacerbated at altitudes above 4-thousand feet. In Pueblo, with OATs near 100 I ended up on the same AAA tow truck twice on the same day. I then gave up and reluctantly drained maybe half of the the costly coolant out, replacing it with plain water so I could get home. However the percolation reoccurred crossing the Mojave in the 115 degree August temps. At home I replaced the Evans with water, adding Water Wetter for corrosion protection. 
> 
>  
> 
> I don?t have the numbers off the top of my head but the specific heat (or ability to transfer heat) of water is 1.00 while Evans is something like .65 or only 2/3 that of water. For me, Evans just did not do the job. From my experience I?d say one would have to be exceptionally brave to use it, especially with a stock radiator system or with a more powerful engine which will place even more demand on the Tiger?s weak cooling system. (BTW in the Tiger we drove on that trip, we had removed the stock block under the carb that hot radiator fluid passes through which probably have made even more of a problem.)
> 
>  
> 
> Buck Trippel
> 
> Ps I wrote up some of this years ago and I believe it contained a more detailed account of Evans heating issues on the trip ? I think it was published in both the TEAE and CAT newletters.
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> From: Tigers <tigers-bounces at autox.team.net <mailto:tigers-bounces at autox.team.net>> On Behalf Of Dr. T. Y. McDowell
> Sent: Saturday, July 2, 2022 5:06 AM
> To: Tiger's List <tigers at autox.team.net <mailto:tigers at autox.team.net>>
> Subject: [Tigers] Evans Waterless Cooling
> 
>  
> 
> Is anyone out there in Tigerland using Evans Waterless Coolant? 
> 
> It has a boiling point of 375 (F).  I'd like to hear from anyone who's using it as I'm considering it. 
> 
>  
> 
> Thanks in advance, 
> 
>  
> 
> Tym McDowell 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 
> tigers at autox.team.net <mailto:tigers at autox.team.net>
> 
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html <http://www.team.net/donate.html>
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers <http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers> http://autox.team.net/archive <http://autox.team.net/archive>
> 
> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/owain.lloyd at gmail.com <http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/owain.lloyd at gmail.com>
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 
> tigers at autox.team.net <mailto:tigers at autox.team.net>
> 
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html <http://www.team.net/donate.html>
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers <http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers> http://autox.team.net/archive <http://autox.team.net/archive>
> 
> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/lpaulick1 at verizon.net <http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/lpaulick1 at verizon.net>
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From owain.lloyd at gmail.com  Sun Jul  3 08:49:19 2022
From: owain.lloyd at gmail.com (Owain Lloyd)
Date: Sun, 3 Jul 2022 16:49:19 +0200
Subject: [Tigers] Evans Waterless Cooling
In-Reply-To: <DCB0ABA1-583F-48CE-B4EF-ECD6FC5A6AD4@verizon.net>
References: <330435248.1310662.1656763572024@connect.xfinity.com>
 <04ea01d88e1c$0112d6f0$033884d0$@verizon.net>
 <CANE47iQLDVr=D_km8HR0ofZyQCG2soZ2fKYc2oBq9EpwUSgtoA@mail.gmail.com>
 <8EE82D37-2D80-4774-8AAA-C9B6AF6C080E@verizon.net>
 <CANE47iSsP0z1mN0ZkWfteaUqDrcORdJ9orCP_Trf3kd1cBOt2g@mail.gmail.com>
 <0d2f01d88e50$3cc65b70$b6531250$@verizon.net>
 <CANE47iSeQESwzWbQf6JRj+k+OFZ3hsMmgQN+cPGZrcLGmiExXg@mail.gmail.com>
 <DCB0ABA1-583F-48CE-B4EF-ECD6FC5A6AD4@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <CANE47iRrFHg2vqo_FEU=uFY4Am1z-Lno7EKbJ2tGE9vbXhDNFA@mail.gmail.com>

That study (whilst very good) doesn?t mention anything about waterless
coolant though does it?  And that was the original question.

Il giorno dom 3 lug 2022 alle 15:39 LARRY PAULICK <lpaulick1 at verizon.net>
ha scritto:

> Dr. M, check the Tigers East Alpine East website or do a web search for
> Tiger Tom and tiger cooling study.  This is a good starting point for
> finding that study, others may have a direct source.
>
> On Jul 3, 2022, at 12:11 AM, Owain Lloyd <owain.lloyd at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Buck, I live in the southern alps :)
> 40 Celsius and 2500m.  But was doing the same at normal temps and
> altitudes.
>
> Il giorno sab 2 lug 2022 alle 22:13 Buck Trippel <bucktrippel at verizon.net>
> ha scritto:
>
>> Owain, have you encountered either high outside air temps or high
>> altitudes when using Evans in your Tiger?
>>
>>
>>
>> Buck
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Owain Lloyd <owain.lloyd at gmail.com>
>> *Sent:* Saturday, July 2, 2022 8:42 AM
>> *To:* LARRY PAULICK <lpaulick1 at verizon.net>
>> *Cc:* Buck Trippel <bucktrippel at verizon.net>; tigers at autox.team.net
>> *Subject:* Re: [Tigers] Evans Waterless Cooling
>>
>>
>>
>> Assuming all those things are done, evans is still not quite up to the
>> job in my car.  Most of those cooling tricks are for slow moving car.  My
>> car ran too hot even at speed with evans and the less than perfect
>> radiator.  As I said, with a better radiator or with water instead it is
>> fine.
>>
>>
>>
>> My reason for preferring brass is that it can be easily soldered.  I
>> struggled on for a long time with my brass radiator but eventually it was
>> just too stress fatigued and needed frequent repair.  If I could get a new
>> brass one I would certainly prefer that.
>>
>>
>>
>> Il giorno sab 2 lug 2022 alle 17:36 LARRY PAULICK <lpaulick1 at verizon.net>
>> ha scritto:
>>
>> Another issue is aluminum versus brass radiators.  Aluminum radiators are
>> lighter but  brass transfers heat more efficiently.
>>
>>
>>
>> When I redid my tiger, I used a three row versus a stock two row brass
>> retaining the top, bottom, and sides so that the fit was not affected.
>>
>>
>>
>> Also if you're replacing or having overheating problems, a closed
>> impeller type water pump is much more efficient. Some aftermarket companies
>> sell them already set up this way, but you can buy just the impeller plate
>> from Summit for a very low price and install it yourself. Pumping
>> efficiency is greatly improved.
>>
>>
>>
>> TEAE did a study many years ago on all aspects of cooling. This excellent
>> engineering study is still applicable today and well worth reading,
>> dispelling a lot of myths.
>>
>>
>>
>> Another design problem with the tiger is that there is no lower portion
>> of the fan shroud. As a result, hot air is removed from the radiator then
>> goes down to the ground and circles back through the front of the radiator,
>> at rest.
>>
>>
>>
>> I know this for a fact since I did smoke test and watched the air
>> recirculating.
>>
>>
>>
>> I fabricated a lower fan shroud from sheet metal, and made a low cost
>> plastic air dam that comes down about 4 inches, to help the flow of air
>> through the radiator and continue towards the rear of the car while in
>> motion.
>>
>>
>>
>> Bottom line it all works and I don't overheat.
>>
>>
>>
>> I have to laugh at the commentos who keeps saying that the V8 takes up so
>> much space that that's why they overheat. Just look at today's cars and how
>> they fill the engine bay and it becomes apparent this is another myth.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Jul 2, 2022, at 10:29 AM, Owain Lloyd <owain.lloyd at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> Yep.  I run in most cars with no problems but in the tiger with the 500hp
>> motor I needed every bit of efficiency possible so had to switch off even
>> back to water and antifreeze.  It worked sort of ok with the dale radiator
>> but then I switched to another brand radiator and it just couldn?t keep the
>> temps down.   Pretty sure it would be doable with an efficient and lower
>> power motor if all the other cooling problems were taken care of.
>>
>>
>>
>> Il giorno sab 2 lug 2022 alle 16:05 Buck Trippel via Tigers <
>> tigers at autox.team.net> ha scritto:
>>
>> In August of the hot summer of 2019 (aren?t they all hot now?) I put
>> Evans in a Tiger which has an excellent two row aluminum radiator in front
>> of a rather stock 289. My wife and I put the Tiger through an almost
>> 5-thousand mile road test by driving from Los Angeles to La Crosse via
>> I80/I90 to attend the TEAE United and then Route 66 on the way home.
>> Temperatures were frequently at 100 degrees. So it got quite a test.
>>
>>
>>
>> The Evans did not boil but with hot outside air temperatures its inferior
>> specific heat (to water) could not remove adequately remove the engine
>> heat.
>>
>>
>>
>> The carb got so hot the fuel percolated (boiled) inside the bowls and the
>> engine stalled lean. This weakness was exacerbated at altitudes above
>> 4-thousand feet. In Pueblo, with OATs near 100 I ended up on the same AAA
>> tow truck twice on the same day. I then gave up and reluctantly drained
>> maybe half of the the costly coolant out, replacing it with plain water so
>> I could get home. However the percolation reoccurred crossing the Mojave in
>> the 115 degree August temps. At home I replaced the Evans with water,
>> adding Water Wetter for corrosion protection.
>>
>>
>>
>> I don?t have the numbers off the top of my head but the specific heat (or
>> ability to transfer heat) of water is 1.00 while Evans is something like
>> .65 or only 2/3 that of water. For me, Evans just did not do the job. From
>> my experience I?d say one would have to be exceptionally brave to use it,
>> especially with a stock radiator system or with a more powerful engine
>> which will place even more demand on the Tiger?s weak cooling system. (BTW
>> in the Tiger we drove on that trip, we had removed the stock block under
>> the carb that hot radiator fluid passes through which probably have made
>> even more of a problem.)
>>
>>
>>
>> Buck Trippel
>>
>> Ps I wrote up some of this years ago and I believe it contained a more
>> detailed account of Evans heating issues on the trip ? I think it was
>> published in both the TEAE and CAT newletters.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Tigers <tigers-bounces at autox.team.net> *On Behalf Of *Dr. T. Y.
>> McDowell
>> *Sent:* Saturday, July 2, 2022 5:06 AM
>> *To:* Tiger's List <tigers at autox.team.net>
>> *Subject:* [Tigers] Evans Waterless Cooling
>>
>>
>>
>> Is anyone out there in Tigerland using Evans Waterless Coolant?
>>
>> It has a boiling point of 375 (F).  I'd like to hear from anyone who's
>> using it as I'm considering it.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks in advance,
>>
>>
>>
>> Tym McDowell
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> tigers at autox.team.net
>>
>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers
>> http://autox.team.net/archive
>>
>> Unsubscribe:
>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/owain.lloyd at gmail.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> tigers at autox.team.net
>>
>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers
>> http://autox.team.net/archive
>>
>> Unsubscribe:
>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/lpaulick1 at verizon.net
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
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From drmayf at mayfco.com  Tue Jul  5 10:21:43 2022
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (Larry Mayfield)
Date: Tue, 5 Jul 2022 09:21:43 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] Evans Waterless Cooling
In-Reply-To: <DCB0ABA1-583F-48CE-B4EF-ECD6FC5A6AD4@verizon.net>
References: <330435248.1310662.1656763572024@connect.xfinity.com>
 <04ea01d88e1c$0112d6f0$033884d0$@verizon.net>
 <CANE47iQLDVr=D_km8HR0ofZyQCG2soZ2fKYc2oBq9EpwUSgtoA@mail.gmail.com>
 <8EE82D37-2D80-4774-8AAA-C9B6AF6C080E@verizon.net>
 <CANE47iSsP0z1mN0ZkWfteaUqDrcORdJ9orCP_Trf3kd1cBOt2g@mail.gmail.com>
 <0d2f01d88e50$3cc65b70$b6531250$@verizon.net>
 <CANE47iSeQESwzWbQf6JRj+k+OFZ3hsMmgQN+cPGZrcLGmiExXg@mail.gmail.com>
 <DCB0ABA1-583F-48CE-B4EF-ECD6FC5A6AD4@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <004501d8908b$5332ed50$f998c7f0$@mayfco.com>

Thank you for the suggestion on finding the paper. I used exactly your suggestion, i.e.  ?Tiger Tom and tiger cooling study? and it was the first thing that popped up, lol.  I have scanned it and will do a more detailed review for myself as a bit of time goes on. 

I must say these experimenters did a pretty fair job at setting up and conducting the experiment and making comparisons.  I am going to comment of the state of rigor for the experiment and what the, what I call missing, elements of the experiment, could mean to the final results.  It is going to be long winded, a natural tendency of mine, lol. 

 

It was not very rigorous, in my opinion.  Let me explain, lest I be pilloried.  There are many parameters for the air and coolant conditions, the state of tune for the engine, that affect the results which do not seem to have been addressed as the  ?Why does it overheat at idle??  question, at least, I think that was the question. So, just who the dickens am I to question anything that these men did? Well, I spent 30+ years as a test engineer and manager for a large Aerospace company and did a lot of test analyses preceded by test design to make sure that the UUT was set up to produce the spec conditions and thus the results as nearly as perfectly as could be determined.  What these testers did was pretty dad gummed good. 

A.	The first thing was just how bad was the engine over heating at idle?  The conditions should have contained a detailed description of the same parameters used in the test. The atmospheric conditions, the absolute air temperature, the absolute air pressure (not baro), the humidity, and altitude,  entering the system. The system is defined as everything surrounding the vehicle.  Why is this important? Well, the conditions need to be replicated each time a test run is made. If you want to know that the changes made later have an effect, plus or minus.  Take humidity, humid air has less air in it, lol. Water vapor is less dense that the atmospheric make up and that means that the heat transfer rate is altered. Wha? Yes, heat is absorbed by the mass of coolant flowing both in the system and then into the ambient air.  The cooling air enthalpy and entropy can be calculated, with the help of ?steam? tables and charts with this data as to how well the ambient can cool something.  Flow rate of the cooling air is a key element but so is the actual mass of the air (with humidity) that flows through the radiator and into the engine compartment, and then into the surrounding ambient air.  Heat only flows from hot to cold and the smaller the difference, the less heat is removed. For instance: the air flow rate can be measured at some altitude with a low pressure but at seal level with the same conditions of temp have less mass. Again, it is the mass of and the particulars of the air?s make up that is important   If the test was conducted in a closed room for the idle issue, then the air was a few degrees warmer.   If outside, the temp and abs pressure (psia) is needed along with the humidity to know how well the system was performing. 
B.	The engine coolant needs to be examined in detail.  As has been stated, water is the VERY best heat transfer fluid. Adding radiator antifreeze is more than just to prevent the coolant from freezing, it also increases the boiling point. But it also adds protection to the iron and aluminum and other metallic components through which the coolant flows. An analysis for the constituents of the coolant could be made to determine just how effective it is as a heat transfer mechanism both in the engine and radiator at operating conditions. The flow rate through the radio need quantifying: a flow meter placed into the radiator water pump feed would be an excellent place to start. The flow rate with coolant out and the exit temperature and pressure measured, And the ambient conditions at that time, a better analysis of any changes can be made.  It should be noted that there are two other methods of cooling that come into play as well. That is convection and conduction. The conduction of heat through the block, the oil in the pan and pan, the head(s),  and anything that has coolant in it all come into play, so al the heat transfer coefficients of the materials need to be acquired along with their surface area and external conditions found in order to get an accurate analysis.  Another is radiation from the surfaces of the engine. The heat signatures or the infrared heat so to speak send heat out as photons heating everything the radiation touches. And convection, the air that cools the exterior of the engine as well as the engine bay must have air flow to remove the heat:  those surfaces all need to be monitored as well.  
C.	Lastly, for me anyway, is the state of turn of the engine. The air fuel ration needs to be monitored and the engine put into the best operating performance it can achieve. For instance, a lean burn is hotter, so if the AFR is high then as most racer know, the system will melt pistons (been there, done that).  The stochiometric air fuel ratio needs to be the same for every test.  At the best burn value.  Even a too rich burn can cause excess heat. The engine air inlet temp and air pressure should be monitored for analysis of fuel burn condition that leads to unexpected heat being generated.  Flow meters on the engine air intake and fuel as well as air and fuel temperature are needed. 

Was the experiment invalid? No, it was not. It provided useful, information that many had not through about and there are things that were made to that should have changed the results more than they appeared to change.  I congratulate them for the effort they put into this! 

 

If I was to do this experiment today, I would use a lot of electronics for concise parameter recording and then do a deeper analysis of the effect of the changeable components.  I would get myself an Arduino Mega 2560 module, a pile of temp sensors to stock on everything , a handful of pressure sensors, water and fuel flow meters,  A good thermodynamics textbook and go at it.  The Arduino IDE has a serial data output capability which can be recorded as well as a serial plotter which can display and record all  the data channels virtually simultaneously. All can be exported to excel if needed for individual parameter display.  

 

Or just drive and remind yourself that this car was designed a long time ago an dstuff just sometimes has to be accepted, lol. I would consider doing a repeat of the work done to date with my additions, except for the notion that I am not in the twilight of my years, but rather closer to the cinderela time, the clock is ticking now for sure at me approaching 81 years of age and slowing way, way, down. 

 

Mayf, twfs 210.779 mph out the back door? 

 

From: Tigers <tigers-bounces at autox.team.net> On Behalf Of LARRY PAULICK via Tigers
Sent: Sunday, July 3, 2022 6:40 AM
To: Owain Lloyd <owain.lloyd at gmail.com>
Cc: tigers at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Evans Waterless Cooling

 

Dr. M, check the Tigers East Alpine East website or do a web search for Tiger Tom and tiger cooling study.  This is a very good starting point for finding that study, others may have a direct source.





On Jul 3, 2022, at 12:11 AM, Owain Lloyd <owain.lloyd at gmail.com <mailto:owain.lloyd at gmail.com> > wrote:

 

Buck, I live in the southern alps :)

40 Celsius and 2500m.  But was doing the same at normal temps and altitudes.

 

Il giorno sab 2 lug 2022 alle 22:13 Buck Trippel <bucktrippel at verizon.net <mailto:bucktrippel at verizon.net> > ha scritto:

Owain, have you encountered either high outside air temps or high altitudes when using Evans in your Tiger?

 

Buck

 

From: Owain Lloyd <owain.lloyd at gmail.com <mailto:owain.lloyd at gmail.com> > 
Sent: Saturday, July 2, 2022 8:42 AM
To: LARRY PAULICK <lpaulick1 at verizon.net <mailto:lpaulick1 at verizon.net> >
Cc: Buck Trippel <bucktrippel at verizon.net <mailto:bucktrippel at verizon.net> >; tigers at autox.team.net <mailto:tigers at autox.team.net> 
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Evans Waterless Cooling

 

Assuming all those things are done, evans is still not quite up to the job in my car.  Most of those cooling tricks are for slow moving car.  My car ran too hot even at speed with evans and the less than perfect radiator.  As I said, with a better radiator or with water instead it is fine.

 

My reason for preferring brass is that it can be easily soldered.  I struggled on for a long time with my brass radiator but eventually it was just too stress fatigued and needed frequent repair.  If I could get a new brass one I would certainly prefer that.

 

Il giorno sab 2 lug 2022 alle 17:36 LARRY PAULICK <lpaulick1 at verizon.net <mailto:lpaulick1 at verizon.net> > ha scritto:

Another issue is aluminum versus brass radiators.  Aluminum radiators are lighter but  brass transfers heat more efficiently.

 

When I redid my tiger, I used a three row versus a stock two row brass retaining the top, bottom, and sides so that the fit was not affected.

 

Also if you're replacing or having overheating problems, a closed impeller type water pump is much more efficient. Some aftermarket companies sell them already set up this way, but you can buy just the impeller plate from Summit for a very low price and install it yourself. Pumping efficiency is greatly improved.

 

TEAE did a study many years ago on all aspects of cooling. This excellent engineering study is still applicable today and well worth reading, dispelling a lot of myths.

 

Another design problem with the tiger is that there is no lower portion of the fan shroud. As a result, hot air is removed from the radiator then goes down to the ground and circles back through the front of the radiator, at rest.

 

I know this for a fact since I did smoke test and watched the air recirculating.

 

I fabricated a lower fan shroud from sheet metal, and made a low cost plastic air dam that comes down about 4 inches, to help the flow of air through the radiator and continue towards the rear of the car while in motion.

 

Bottom line it all works and I don't overheat.

 

I have to laugh at the commentos who keeps saying that the V8 takes up so much space that that's why they overheat. Just look at today's cars and how they fill the engine bay and it becomes apparent this is another myth.

 

On Jul 2, 2022, at 10:29 AM, Owain Lloyd <owain.lloyd at gmail.com <mailto:owain.lloyd at gmail.com> > wrote:

 

Yep.  I run in most cars with no problems but in the tiger with the 500hp motor I needed every bit of efficiency possible so had to switch off even back to water and antifreeze.  It worked sort of ok with the dale radiator but then I switched to another brand radiator and it just couldn?t keep the temps down.   Pretty sure it would be doable with an efficient and lower power motor if all the other cooling problems were taken care of.

 

Il giorno sab 2 lug 2022 alle 16:05 Buck Trippel via Tigers <tigers at autox.team.net <mailto:tigers at autox.team.net> > ha scritto:

In August of the hot summer of 2019 (aren?t they all hot now?) I put Evans in a Tiger which has an excellent two row aluminum radiator in front of a rather stock 289. My wife and I put the Tiger through an almost 5-thousand mile road test by driving from Los Angeles to La Crosse via I80/I90 to attend the TEAE United and then Route 66 on the way home. Temperatures were frequently at 100 degrees. So it got quite a test.

 

The Evans did not boil but with hot outside air temperatures its inferior specific heat (to water) could not remove adequately remove the engine heat. 

 

The carb got so hot the fuel percolated (boiled) inside the bowls and the engine stalled lean. This weakness was exacerbated at altitudes above 4-thousand feet. In Pueblo, with OATs near 100 I ended up on the same AAA tow truck twice on the same day. I then gave up and reluctantly drained maybe half of the the costly coolant out, replacing it with plain water so I could get home. However the percolation reoccurred crossing the Mojave in the 115 degree August temps. At home I replaced the Evans with water, adding Water Wetter for corrosion protection. 

 

I don?t have the numbers off the top of my head but the specific heat (or ability to transfer heat) of water is 1.00 while Evans is something like .65 or only 2/3 that of water. For me, Evans just did not do the job. From my experience I?d say one would have to be exceptionally brave to use it, especially with a stock radiator system or with a more powerful engine which will place even more demand on the Tiger?s weak cooling system. (BTW in the Tiger we drove on that trip, we had removed the stock block under the carb that hot radiator fluid passes through which probably have made even more of a problem.)

 

Buck Trippel

Ps I wrote up some of this years ago and I believe it contained a more detailed account of Evans heating issues on the trip ? I think it was published in both the TEAE and CAT newletters.

 

 

From: Tigers <tigers-bounces at autox.team.net <mailto:tigers-bounces at autox.team.net> > On Behalf Of Dr. T. Y. McDowell
Sent: Saturday, July 2, 2022 5:06 AM
To: Tiger's List <tigers at autox.team.net <mailto:tigers at autox.team.net> >
Subject: [Tigers] Evans Waterless Cooling

 

Is anyone out there in Tigerland using Evans Waterless Coolant? 

It has a boiling point of 375 (F).  I'd like to hear from anyone who's using it as I'm considering it. 

 

Thanks in advance, 

 

Tym McDowell 

_______________________________________________

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From cmeinel464 at aol.com  Wed Jul  6 04:26:30 2022
From: cmeinel464 at aol.com (Curt & Patti Meinel)
Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2022 10:26:30 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Tigers] Moss motors plans for Sunbeam Parts
In-Reply-To: <8B8D6175-38BA-4D06-A999-05B402751CFC@gmail.com>
References: <6B83C527-C4AC-41E2-B080-8920A8893E9F.ref@aol.com>
 <6B83C527-C4AC-41E2-B080-8920A8893E9F@aol.com>
 <CAAjp1z7ZuT-xbwKBe2sJvFaFCavP35QZQgkTK6AmHRQ_eS9y6A@mail.gmail.com>
 <808104719.979384.1656709568618@mail.yahoo.com>
 <8B8D6175-38BA-4D06-A999-05B402751CFC@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <706231568.2576481.1657103190798@mail.yahoo.com>

Jay,?Rick and I are good friends and we both put in the? time to put out quality? Sunbeam parts. We are both owners and Sunbeam nuts.Over the years I bought quote a lot of Britshit parts to see the quantity, frankly most of it was crap. For your? information Moss called both Rick & I to inquire? if we were interested in selling to them. We both said "no thank you."Curt Classic Sunbeam?
Sent from the all new AOL app for Android 
 
  On Fri, Jul 1, 2022 at 7:33 PM, Jay<jay.laifman at gmail.com> wrote:   Exactly! ?I stockpiled a bunch of VB stuff while my car was being painted, etc. Then many months if not a year later, when I went to install it, that?s when I learned how bad it was. ?And way too late to return. ?So I ended up rebuying most of it from Rick (sorry Curt). ?But that is also when I learned that Rick and Curt spent the time to source good stuff. ?I never bought from VB again. ?
I?m sure Moss has inquired with Rick and Curt to buy and if Moss had a correct understanding of the low value of what they have, Rick and Curt would already be selling it.



On Jul 1, 2022, at 2:06 PM, Curt & Patti Meinel <cmeinel464 at aol.com> wrote:
Most of Vicshit parts were crap. We bought some items to see how they worked and dumped most of it. Curt Classic Sunbeam?

Sent from the all new AOL app for Android 
 
  On Fri, Jul 1, 2022 at 11:07 AM, Jay Laifman<jay.laifman at gmail.com> wrote:   _______________________________________________

tigers at autox.team.net

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From bobwanty at gmail.com  Wed Jul  6 05:32:00 2022
From: bobwanty at gmail.com (Robert Wanty)
Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2022 07:32:00 -0400
Subject: [Tigers] Evans Waterless Cooling
In-Reply-To: <004501d8908b$5332ed50$f998c7f0$@mayfco.com>
References: <330435248.1310662.1656763572024@connect.xfinity.com>
 <04ea01d88e1c$0112d6f0$033884d0$@verizon.net>
 <CANE47iQLDVr=D_km8HR0ofZyQCG2soZ2fKYc2oBq9EpwUSgtoA@mail.gmail.com>
 <8EE82D37-2D80-4774-8AAA-C9B6AF6C080E@verizon.net>
 <CANE47iSsP0z1mN0ZkWfteaUqDrcORdJ9orCP_Trf3kd1cBOt2g@mail.gmail.com>
 <0d2f01d88e50$3cc65b70$b6531250$@verizon.net>
 <CANE47iSeQESwzWbQf6JRj+k+OFZ3hsMmgQN+cPGZrcLGmiExXg@mail.gmail.com>
 <DCB0ABA1-583F-48CE-B4EF-ECD6FC5A6AD4@verizon.net>
 <004501d8908b$5332ed50$f998c7f0$@mayfco.com>
Message-ID: <CAOCAEMW5V0O5ivdwYVMVO-9NUKw5m7HNAP+U4gANkyveqsQqfQ@mail.gmail.com>

I have a MK1 with a 260 bored 0.030 over with a mild cam, headers, ford
cast iron 4bbl intake, stock cooling system. The thermostat is a 160 and I
was told that the cooling system would work better with a 180 thermostat
because the system would work more efficiently and shed more heat at the
higher temperature. Not sure if this is true but seems as though that may
make sense.
I found that if the air temperature is below 70 the car runs around 120,
above 80 degrees at cruising speed it stays around 160 and around 220 at
idle. Not sure what happens when the air temperature is above 85  to 90
because it is no fun driving around in a microwave so I drive a backup 911
with ac.
My 2 cents on the subject.
Bob


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On Tue, Jul 5, 2022 at 10:19 PM Larry Mayfield via Tigers <
tigers at autox.team.net> wrote:

> Thank you for the suggestion on finding the paper. I used exactly your
> suggestion, i.e.  ?Tiger Tom and tiger cooling study? and it was the first
> thing that popped up, lol.  I have scanned it and will do a more detailed
> review for myself as a bit of time goes on.
>
> I must say these experimenters did a pretty fair job at setting up and
> conducting the experiment and making comparisons.  I am going to comment of
> the state of rigor for the experiment and what the, what I call missing,
> elements of the experiment, could mean to the final results.  It is going
> to be long winded, a natural tendency of mine, lol.
>
>
>
> It was *not* very rigorous, in my opinion.  Let me explain, lest I be
> pilloried.  There are many parameters for the air and coolant conditions,
> the state of tune for the engine, that affect the results which do not seem
> to have been addressed as the  ?Why does it overheat at idle??  question,
> at least, I think that was the question. So, just who the dickens am I to
> question anything that these men did? Well, I spent 30+ years as a test
> engineer and manager for a large Aerospace company and did a *lot* of
> test analyses preceded by test design to make sure that the UUT was set up
> to produce the spec conditions and thus the results as nearly as perfectly
> as could be determined.  What these testers did was pretty dad gummed good.
>
>    1. The first thing was just how bad was the engine over heating at
>    idle?  The conditions should have contained a detailed description of the
>    same parameters used in the test. The atmospheric conditions, the absolute
>    air temperature, the absolute air pressure (*not* baro), the humidity,
>    and altitude,  entering the system. The system is defined as everything
>    surrounding the vehicle.  Why is this important? Well, the conditions need
>    to be replicated each time a test run is made. If you want to know that the
>    changes made later have an effect, plus or minus.  Take humidity, humid air
>    has less air in it, lol. Water vapor is less dense that the atmospheric
>    make up and that means that the heat transfer rate is altered. Wha? Yes,
>    heat is absorbed by the *mass* of coolant flowing both in the system
>    and then into the ambient air.  The cooling air enthalpy and entropy can be
>    calculated, with the help of ?steam? tables and charts with this data as to
>    how well the ambient can cool something.  Flow rate of the cooling air is a *key
>    element* but so is the *actual mass* of the air (with humidity) that
>    flows through the radiator and into the engine compartment, and then into
>    the surrounding ambient air.  Heat only flows from hot to cold and the
>    smaller the difference, the less heat is removed. For instance: the air
>    flow rate can be measured at some altitude with a low pressure but at seal
>    level with the same conditions of temp have less mass. Again, it is *the
>    mass* of and the particulars of the air?s make up that is important
>      If the test was conducted in a closed room for the idle issue, then the
>    air was a few degrees warmer.   If outside, the temp and abs pressure
>    (psia) is needed along with the humidity to know how well the system was
>    performing.
>    2. The engine coolant needs to be examined in detail.  As has been
>    stated, water is the VERY best heat transfer fluid. Adding radiator
>    antifreeze is more than just to prevent the coolant from freezing, it also
>    increases the boiling point. But it also adds protection to the iron and
>    aluminum and other metallic components through which the coolant flows. An
>    analysis for the constituents of the coolant could be made to determine
>    just how effective it is as a heat transfer mechanism both in the engine
>    and radiator at operating conditions. The flow rate through the radio need
>    quantifying: a flow meter placed into the radiator water pump feed would be
>    an excellent place to start. The flow rate with coolant out and the exit
>    temperature and pressure measured, And the ambient conditions at that time,
>    a better analysis of any changes can be made.  It should be noted that
>    there are two other methods of cooling that come into play as well. That is
>    convection and conduction. The conduction of heat through the block, the
>    oil in the pan and pan, the head(s),  and anything that has coolant in it
>    all come into play, so al the heat transfer coefficients of the materials
>    need to be acquired along with their surface area and external conditions
>    found in order to get an accurate analysis.  Another is radiation from the
>    surfaces of the engine. The heat signatures or the infrared heat so to
>    speak send heat out as photons heating everything the radiation touches.
>    And convection, the air that cools the exterior of the engine as well as
>    the engine bay must have air flow to remove the heat:  those surfaces all
>    need to be monitored as well.
>    3. Lastly, for me anyway, is the state of turn of the engine. The air
>    fuel ration needs to be monitored and the engine put into the best
>    operating performance it can achieve. For instance, a lean burn is hotter,
>    so if the AFR is high then as most racer know, the system will melt pistons
>    (been there, done that).  The stochiometric air fuel ratio needs to be the
>    same for every test.  At the best burn value.  Even a too rich burn can
>    cause excess heat. The engine air inlet temp and air pressure should be
>    monitored for analysis of fuel burn condition that leads to unexpected heat
>    being generated.  Flow meters on the engine air intake and fuel as well as
>    air and fuel temperature are needed.
>
> Was the experiment invalid? No, it was not. It provided useful,
> information that many had not through about and there are things that were
> made to that should have changed the results more than they appeared to
> change.  I congratulate them for the effort they put into this!
>
>
>
> If I was to do this experiment today, I would use a lot of electronics for
> concise parameter recording and then do a deeper analysis of the effect of
> the changeable components.  I would get myself an Arduino Mega 2560 module,
> a pile of temp sensors to stock on everything , a handful of pressure
> sensors, water and fuel flow meters,  A good thermodynamics textbook and go
> at it.  The Arduino IDE has a serial data output capability which can be
> recorded as well as a serial plotter which can display and record all  the
> data channels virtually simultaneously. All can be exported to excel if
> needed for individual parameter display.
>
>
>
> Or just drive and remind yourself that this car was designed a long time
> ago an dstuff just sometimes has to be accepted, lol. I would consider
> doing a repeat of the work done to date with my additions, except for the
> notion that I am not in the twilight of my years, but rather closer to the
> cinderela time, the clock is ticking now for sure at me approaching 81
> years of age and slowing way, way, down.
>
>
>
> Mayf, twfs 210.779 mph out the back door?
>
>
>
> *From:* Tigers <tigers-bounces at autox.team.net> *On Behalf Of *LARRY
> PAULICK via Tigers
> *Sent:* Sunday, July 3, 2022 6:40 AM
> *To:* Owain Lloyd <owain.lloyd at gmail.com>
> *Cc:* tigers at autox.team.net
> *Subject:* Re: [Tigers] Evans Waterless Cooling
>
>
>
> Dr. M, check the Tigers East Alpine East website or do a web search for
> Tiger Tom and tiger cooling study.  This is a very good starting point for
> finding that study, others may have a direct source.
>
>
>
> On Jul 3, 2022, at 12:11 AM, Owain Lloyd <owain.lloyd at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> Buck, I live in the southern alps :)
>
> 40 Celsius and 2500m.  But was doing the same at normal temps and
> altitudes.
>
>
>
> Il giorno sab 2 lug 2022 alle 22:13 Buck Trippel <bucktrippel at verizon.net>
> ha scritto:
>
> Owain, have you encountered either high outside air temps or high
> altitudes when using Evans in your Tiger?
>
>
>
> Buck
>
>
>
> *From:* Owain Lloyd <owain.lloyd at gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Saturday, July 2, 2022 8:42 AM
> *To:* LARRY PAULICK <lpaulick1 at verizon.net>
> *Cc:* Buck Trippel <bucktrippel at verizon.net>; tigers at autox.team.net
> *Subject:* Re: [Tigers] Evans Waterless Cooling
>
>
>
> Assuming all those things are done, evans is still not quite up to the job
> in my car.  Most of those cooling tricks are for slow moving car.  My car
> ran too hot even at speed with evans and the less than perfect radiator.
> As I said, with a better radiator or with water instead it is fine.
>
>
>
> My reason for preferring brass is that it can be easily soldered.  I
> struggled on for a long time with my brass radiator but eventually it was
> just too stress fatigued and needed frequent repair.  If I could get a new
> brass one I would certainly prefer that.
>
>
>
> Il giorno sab 2 lug 2022 alle 17:36 LARRY PAULICK <lpaulick1 at verizon.net>
> ha scritto:
>
> Another issue is aluminum versus brass radiators.  Aluminum radiators are
> lighter but  brass transfers heat more efficiently.
>
>
>
> When I redid my tiger, I used a three row versus a stock two row brass
> retaining the top, bottom, and sides so that the fit was not affected.
>
>
>
> Also if you're replacing or having overheating problems, a closed impeller
> type water pump is much more efficient. Some aftermarket companies sell
> them already set up this way, but you can buy just the impeller plate from
> Summit for a very low price and install it yourself. Pumping efficiency is
> greatly improved.
>
>
>
> TEAE did a study many years ago on all aspects of cooling. This excellent
> engineering study is still applicable today and well worth reading,
> dispelling a lot of myths.
>
>
>
> Another design problem with the tiger is that there is no lower portion of
> the fan shroud. As a result, hot air is removed from the radiator then goes
> down to the ground and circles back through the front of the radiator, at
> rest.
>
>
>
> I know this for a fact since I did smoke test and watched the air
> recirculating.
>
>
>
> I fabricated a lower fan shroud from sheet metal, and made a low cost
> plastic air dam that comes down about 4 inches, to help the flow of air
> through the radiator and continue towards the rear of the car while in
> motion.
>
>
>
> Bottom line it all works and I don't overheat.
>
>
>
> I have to laugh at the commentos who keeps saying that the V8 takes up so
> much space that that's why they overheat. Just look at today's cars and how
> they fill the engine bay and it becomes apparent this is another myth.
>
>
>
> On Jul 2, 2022, at 10:29 AM, Owain Lloyd <owain.lloyd at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> Yep.  I run in most cars with no problems but in the tiger with the 500hp
> motor I needed every bit of efficiency possible so had to switch off even
> back to water and antifreeze.  It worked sort of ok with the dale radiator
> but then I switched to another brand radiator and it just couldn?t keep the
> temps down.   Pretty sure it would be doable with an efficient and lower
> power motor if all the other cooling problems were taken care of.
>
>
>
> Il giorno sab 2 lug 2022 alle 16:05 Buck Trippel via Tigers <
> tigers at autox.team.net> ha scritto:
>
> In August of the hot summer of 2019 (aren?t they all hot now?) I put Evans
> in a Tiger which has an excellent two row aluminum radiator in front of a
> rather stock 289. My wife and I put the Tiger through an almost 5-thousand
> mile road test by driving from Los Angeles to La Crosse via I80/I90 to
> attend the TEAE United and then Route 66 on the way home. Temperatures were
> frequently at 100 degrees. So it got quite a test.
>
>
>
> The Evans did not boil but with hot outside air temperatures its inferior
> specific heat (to water) could not remove adequately remove the engine
> heat.
>
>
>
> The carb got so hot the fuel percolated (boiled) inside the bowls and the
> engine stalled lean. This weakness was exacerbated at altitudes above
> 4-thousand feet. In Pueblo, with OATs near 100 I ended up on the same AAA
> tow truck twice on the same day. I then gave up and reluctantly drained
> maybe half of the the costly coolant out, replacing it with plain water so
> I could get home. However the percolation reoccurred crossing the Mojave in
> the 115 degree August temps. At home I replaced the Evans with water,
> adding Water Wetter for corrosion protection.
>
>
>
> I don?t have the numbers off the top of my head but the specific heat (or
> ability to transfer heat) of water is 1.00 while Evans is something like
> .65 or only 2/3 that of water. For me, Evans just did not do the job. From
> my experience I?d say one would have to be exceptionally brave to use it,
> especially with a stock radiator system or with a more powerful engine
> which will place even more demand on the Tiger?s weak cooling system. (BTW
> in the Tiger we drove on that trip, we had removed the stock block under
> the carb that hot radiator fluid passes through which probably have made
> even more of a problem.)
>
>
>
> Buck Trippel
>
> Ps I wrote up some of this years ago and I believe it contained a more
> detailed account of Evans heating issues on the trip ? I think it was
> published in both the TEAE and CAT newletters.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Tigers <tigers-bounces at autox.team.net> *On Behalf Of *Dr. T. Y.
> McDowell
> *Sent:* Saturday, July 2, 2022 5:06 AM
> *To:* Tiger's List <tigers at autox.team.net>
> *Subject:* [Tigers] Evans Waterless Cooling
>
>
>
> Is anyone out there in Tigerland using Evans Waterless Coolant?
>
> It has a boiling point of 375 (F).  I'd like to hear from anyone who's
> using it as I'm considering it.
>
>
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
>
>
> Tym McDowell
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> tigers at autox.team.net
>
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
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>
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>
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>
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>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> tigers at autox.team.net
>
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
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From rfraser at bluefrog.com  Wed Jul  6 08:05:08 2022
From: rfraser at bluefrog.com (Ron Fraser)
Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2022 10:05:08 -0400
Subject: [Tigers] Evans Waterless Cooling
In-Reply-To: <004501d8908b$5332ed50$f998c7f0$@mayfco.com>
References: <330435248.1310662.1656763572024@connect.xfinity.com>
 <04ea01d88e1c$0112d6f0$033884d0$@verizon.net>
 <CANE47iQLDVr=D_km8HR0ofZyQCG2soZ2fKYc2oBq9EpwUSgtoA@mail.gmail.com>
 <8EE82D37-2D80-4774-8AAA-C9B6AF6C080E@verizon.net>
 <CANE47iSsP0z1mN0ZkWfteaUqDrcORdJ9orCP_Trf3kd1cBOt2g@mail.gmail.com>
 <0d2f01d88e50$3cc65b70$b6531250$@verizon.net>
 <CANE47iSeQESwzWbQf6JRj+k+OFZ3hsMmgQN+cPGZrcLGmiExXg@mail.gmail.com>
 <DCB0ABA1-583F-48CE-B4EF-ECD6FC5A6AD4@verizon.net>
 <004501d8908b$5332ed50$f998c7f0$@mayfco.com>
Message-ID: <000c01d89141$67a3a7f0$36eaf7d0$@bluefrog.com>

Mayfield

 

This is an excellent review of the cooling article.   What we have here is a Thermodynamics problem and you are correct it needs more instrumentation to understand the data details.   Much more work is need to truly understand this problem.   There are way too many variables for most of us to comprehend and understand.

 

Tiger Tom and company where mostly looking at the air flow through the radiator; this was their main concern and objective.  Air flow is a major key to cooling but not the only key.   Some of this study started at the SUNI, Snowmass gathering, we were looking at air flow only.

 

The study presents a number of possible cures for the air flow problem.

 

The 1st time I drove my Tiger from Rochester NY to a Buffalo car show I park the Tiger, shut the engine off and it puked, marking its spot.   Back then you could get the good Prestone dry chemical engine flush so I flushed the engine which helped.   I also had to spend about an hour flushing and back flushing the heater core until it ran clear.   Later, I rebuilt a water pump with a Motorsport impellor and install a 6 bladed fan and I have not had puking since.   ?if it is not puking it is not over heating?   I do pop the hood if I get into slow traffic to let hot air out.

 

We all have a different take on the Tiger Cooling situation and we may all come up with a slightly different angle of approach.    Each approach needs to be written and exchanged so all can learn, understand and deal with this problem and possibly add new insight.

 

I look at the Cooling Article as a starting point much like the article I wrote about the dipstick oil level conundrum.

 

I did a quick experiment with an oil pan and oil pump pick up tube to see why the oil level always was higher than the mark on the dipstick.   I found that the angle of the engine means everything to the oil level.   About 3 degrees of the engine tilted back, the oil level is at the mark, about 3 degrees down tilt to the front the oil level is high.

This was a quick and rough experiment to answer a number of questions people on this List had about the oil level.    I used a little precision but it was mostly a rough experiment; a starting point for anyone who might be curious to investigate it more.  

 

I see the same starting point with the Cooling issue.   More details equals more understanding.

 

Never stop being curious about the little details and always write up what you did and how you did the work.

 

Ron Fraser

 

 

 

 

From: Tigers <tigers-bounces at autox.team.net> On Behalf Of Larry Mayfield via Tigers
Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2022 12:22 PM
To: 'LARRY PAULICK' <lpaulick1 at verizon.net>; 'Owain Lloyd' <owain.lloyd at gmail.com>
Cc: tigers at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Evans Waterless Cooling

 

Thank you for the suggestion on finding the paper. I used exactly your suggestion, i.e.  ?Tiger Tom and tiger cooling study? and it was the first thing that popped up, lol.  I have scanned it and will do a more detailed review for myself as a bit of time goes on. 

I must say these experimenters did a pretty fair job at setting up and conducting the experiment and making comparisons.  I am going to comment of the state of rigor for the experiment and what the, what I call missing, elements of the experiment, could mean to the final results.  It is going to be long winded, a natural tendency of mine, lol. 

 

It was not very rigorous, in my opinion.  Let me explain, lest I be pilloried.  There are many parameters for the air and coolant conditions, the state of tune for the engine, that affect the results which do not seem to have been addressed as the  ?Why does it overheat at idle??  question, at least, I think that was the question. So, just who the dickens am I to question anything that these men did? Well, I spent 30+ years as a test engineer and manager for a large Aerospace company and did a lot of test analyses preceded by test design to make sure that the UUT was set up to produce the spec conditions and thus the results as nearly as perfectly as could be determined.  What these testers did was pretty dad gummed good. 

A.	The first thing was just how bad was the engine over heating at idle?  The conditions should have contained a detailed description of the same parameters used in the test. The atmospheric conditions, the absolute air temperature, the absolute air pressure (not baro), the humidity, and altitude,  entering the system. The system is defined as everything surrounding the vehicle.  Why is this important? Well, the conditions need to be replicated each time a test run is made. If you want to know that the changes made later have an effect, plus or minus.  Take humidity, humid air has less air in it, lol. Water vapor is less dense that the atmospheric make up and that means that the heat transfer rate is altered. Wha? Yes, heat is absorbed by the mass of coolant flowing both in the system and then into the ambient air.  The cooling air enthalpy and entropy can be calculated, with the help of ?steam? tables and charts with this data as to how well the ambient can cool something.  Flow rate of the cooling air is a key element but so is the actual mass of the air (with humidity) that flows through the radiator and into the engine compartment, and then into the surrounding ambient air.  Heat only flows from hot to cold and the smaller the difference, the less heat is removed. For instance: the air flow rate can be measured at some altitude with a low pressure but at seal level with the same conditions of temp have less mass. Again, it is the mass of and the particulars of the air?s make up that is important   If the test was conducted in a closed room for the idle issue, then the air was a few degrees warmer.   If outside, the temp and abs pressure (psia) is needed along with the humidity to know how well the system was performing. 
B.	The engine coolant needs to be examined in detail.  As has been stated, water is the VERY best heat transfer fluid. Adding radiator antifreeze is more than just to prevent the coolant from freezing, it also increases the boiling point. But it also adds protection to the iron and aluminum and other metallic components through which the coolant flows. An analysis for the constituents of the coolant could be made to determine just how effective it is as a heat transfer mechanism both in the engine and radiator at operating conditions. The flow rate through the radio need quantifying: a flow meter placed into the radiator water pump feed would be an excellent place to start. The flow rate with coolant out and the exit temperature and pressure measured, And the ambient conditions at that time, a better analysis of any changes can be made.  It should be noted that there are two other methods of cooling that come into play as well. That is convection and conduction. The conduction of heat through the block, the oil in the pan and pan, the head(s),  and anything that has coolant in it all come into play, so al the heat transfer coefficients of the materials need to be acquired along with their surface area and external conditions found in order to get an accurate analysis.  Another is radiation from the surfaces of the engine. The heat signatures or the infrared heat so to speak send heat out as photons heating everything the radiation touches. And convection, the air that cools the exterior of the engine as well as the engine bay must have air flow to remove the heat:  those surfaces all need to be monitored as well.  
C.	Lastly, for me anyway, is the state of turn of the engine. The air fuel ration needs to be monitored and the engine put into the best operating performance it can achieve. For instance, a lean burn is hotter, so if the AFR is high then as most racer know, the system will melt pistons (been there, done that).  The stochiometric air fuel ratio needs to be the same for every test.  At the best burn value.  Even a too rich burn can cause excess heat. The engine air inlet temp and air pressure should be monitored for analysis of fuel burn condition that leads to unexpected heat being generated.  Flow meters on the engine air intake and fuel as well as air and fuel temperature are needed. 

Was the experiment invalid? No, it was not. It provided useful, information that many had not through about and there are things that were made to that should have changed the results more than they appeared to change.  I congratulate them for the effort they put into this! 

 

If I was to do this experiment today, I would use a lot of electronics for concise parameter recording and then do a deeper analysis of the effect of the changeable components.  I would get myself an Arduino Mega 2560 module, a pile of temp sensors to stock on everything , a handful of pressure sensors, water and fuel flow meters,  A good thermodynamics textbook and go at it.  The Arduino IDE has a serial data output capability which can be recorded as well as a serial plotter which can display and record all  the data channels virtually simultaneously. All can be exported to excel if needed for individual parameter display.  

 

Or just drive and remind yourself that this car was designed a long time ago an dstuff just sometimes has to be accepted, lol. I would consider doing a repeat of the work done to date with my additions, except for the notion that I am not in the twilight of my years, but rather closer to the cinderela time, the clock is ticking now for sure at me approaching 81 years of age and slowing way, way, down. 

 

Mayf, twfs 210.779 mph out the back door? 

 

From: Tigers <tigers-bounces at autox.team.net <mailto:tigers-bounces at autox.team.net> > On Behalf Of LARRY PAULICK via Tigers
Sent: Sunday, July 3, 2022 6:40 AM
To: Owain Lloyd <owain.lloyd at gmail.com <mailto:owain.lloyd at gmail.com> >
Cc: tigers at autox.team.net <mailto:tigers at autox.team.net> 
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Evans Waterless Cooling

 

Dr. M, check the Tigers East Alpine East website or do a web search for Tiger Tom and tiger cooling study.  This is a very good starting point for finding that study, others may have a direct source.

 

On Jul 3, 2022, at 12:11 AM, Owain Lloyd <owain.lloyd at gmail.com <mailto:owain.lloyd at gmail.com> > wrote:

 

Buck, I live in the southern alps :)

40 Celsius and 2500m.  But was doing the same at normal temps and altitudes.

 

Il giorno sab 2 lug 2022 alle 22:13 Buck Trippel <bucktrippel at verizon.net <mailto:bucktrippel at verizon.net> > ha scritto:

Owain, have you encountered either high outside air temps or high altitudes when using Evans in your Tiger?

 

Buck

 

From: Owain Lloyd <owain.lloyd at gmail.com <mailto:owain.lloyd at gmail.com> > 
Sent: Saturday, July 2, 2022 8:42 AM
To: LARRY PAULICK <lpaulick1 at verizon.net <mailto:lpaulick1 at verizon.net> >
Cc: Buck Trippel <bucktrippel at verizon.net <mailto:bucktrippel at verizon.net> >; tigers at autox.team.net <mailto:tigers at autox.team.net> 
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Evans Waterless Cooling

 

Assuming all those things are done, evans is still not quite up to the job in my car.  Most of those cooling tricks are for slow moving car.  My car ran too hot even at speed with evans and the less than perfect radiator.  As I said, with a better radiator or with water instead it is fine.

 

My reason for preferring brass is that it can be easily soldered.  I struggled on for a long time with my brass radiator but eventually it was just too stress fatigued and needed frequent repair.  If I could get a new brass one I would certainly prefer that.

 

Il giorno sab 2 lug 2022 alle 17:36 LARRY PAULICK <lpaulick1 at verizon.net <mailto:lpaulick1 at verizon.net> > ha scritto:

Another issue is aluminum versus brass radiators.  Aluminum radiators are lighter but  brass transfers heat more efficiently.

 

When I redid my tiger, I used a three row versus a stock two row brass retaining the top, bottom, and sides so that the fit was not affected.

 

Also if you're replacing or having overheating problems, a closed impeller type water pump is much more efficient. Some aftermarket companies sell them already set up this way, but you can buy just the impeller plate from Summit for a very low price and install it yourself. Pumping efficiency is greatly improved.

 

TEAE did a study many years ago on all aspects of cooling. This excellent engineering study is still applicable today and well worth reading, dispelling a lot of myths.

 

Another design problem with the tiger is that there is no lower portion of the fan shroud. As a result, hot air is removed from the radiator then goes down to the ground and circles back through the front of the radiator, at rest.

 

I know this for a fact since I did smoke test and watched the air recirculating.

 

I fabricated a lower fan shroud from sheet metal, and made a low cost plastic air dam that comes down about 4 inches, to help the flow of air through the radiator and continue towards the rear of the car while in motion.

 

Bottom line it all works and I don't overheat.

 

I have to laugh at the commentos who keeps saying that the V8 takes up so much space that that's why they overheat. Just look at today's cars and how they fill the engine bay and it becomes apparent this is another myth.

 

On Jul 2, 2022, at 10:29 AM, Owain Lloyd <owain.lloyd at gmail.com <mailto:owain.lloyd at gmail.com> > wrote:

 

Yep.  I run in most cars with no problems but in the tiger with the 500hp motor I needed every bit of efficiency possible so had to switch off even back to water and antifreeze.  It worked sort of ok with the dale radiator but then I switched to another brand radiator and it just couldn?t keep the temps down.   Pretty sure it would be doable with an efficient and lower power motor if all the other cooling problems were taken care of.

 

Il giorno sab 2 lug 2022 alle 16:05 Buck Trippel via Tigers <tigers at autox.team.net <mailto:tigers at autox.team.net> > ha scritto:

In August of the hot summer of 2019 (aren?t they all hot now?) I put Evans in a Tiger which has an excellent two row aluminum radiator in front of a rather stock 289. My wife and I put the Tiger through an almost 5-thousand mile road test by driving from Los Angeles to La Crosse via I80/I90 to attend the TEAE United and then Route 66 on the way home. Temperatures were frequently at 100 degrees. So it got quite a test.

 

The Evans did not boil but with hot outside air temperatures its inferior specific heat (to water) could not remove adequately remove the engine heat. 

 

The carb got so hot the fuel percolated (boiled) inside the bowls and the engine stalled lean. This weakness was exacerbated at altitudes above 4-thousand feet. In Pueblo, with OATs near 100 I ended up on the same AAA tow truck twice on the same day. I then gave up and reluctantly drained maybe half of the the costly coolant out, replacing it with plain water so I could get home. However the percolation reoccurred crossing the Mojave in the 115 degree August temps. At home I replaced the Evans with water, adding Water Wetter for corrosion protection. 

 

I don?t have the numbers off the top of my head but the specific heat (or ability to transfer heat) of water is 1.00 while Evans is something like .65 or only 2/3 that of water. For me, Evans just did not do the job. From my experience I?d say one would have to be exceptionally brave to use it, especially with a stock radiator system or with a more powerful engine which will place even more demand on the Tiger?s weak cooling system. (BTW in the Tiger we drove on that trip, we had removed the stock block under the carb that hot radiator fluid passes through which probably have made even more of a problem.)

 

Buck Trippel

Ps I wrote up some of this years ago and I believe it contained a more detailed account of Evans heating issues on the trip ? I think it was published in both the TEAE and CAT newletters.

 

 

From: Tigers <tigers-bounces at autox.team.net <mailto:tigers-bounces at autox.team.net> > On Behalf Of Dr. T. Y. McDowell
Sent: Saturday, July 2, 2022 5:06 AM
To: Tiger's List <tigers at autox.team.net <mailto:tigers at autox.team.net> >
Subject: [Tigers] Evans Waterless Cooling

 

Is anyone out there in Tigerland using Evans Waterless Coolant? 

It has a boiling point of 375 (F).  I'd like to hear from anyone who's using it as I'm considering it. 

 

Thanks in advance, 

 

Tym McDowell 

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From rfraser at bluefrog.com  Wed Jul  6 08:20:05 2022
From: rfraser at bluefrog.com (Ron Fraser)
Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2022 10:20:05 -0400
Subject: [Tigers] FW:  Evans Waterless Cooling
References: <330435248.1310662.1656763572024@connect.xfinity.com>
 <04ea01d88e1c$0112d6f0$033884d0$@verizon.net>
 <CANE47iQLDVr=D_km8HR0ofZyQCG2soZ2fKYc2oBq9EpwUSgtoA@mail.gmail.com>
 <8EE82D37-2D80-4774-8AAA-C9B6AF6C080E@verizon.net>
 <CANE47iSsP0z1mN0ZkWfteaUqDrcORdJ9orCP_Trf3kd1cBOt2g@mail.gmail.com>
 <0d2f01d88e50$3cc65b70$b6531250$@verizon.net>
 <CANE47iSeQESwzWbQf6JRj+k+OFZ3hsMmgQN+cPGZrcLGmiExXg@mail.gmail.com>
 <DCB0ABA1-583F-48CE-B4EF-ECD6FC5A6AD4@verizon.net>
 <004501d8908b$5332ed50$f998c7f0$@mayfco.com>
 <CAOCAEMW5V0O5ivdwYVMVO-9NUKw5m7HNAP+U4gANkyveqsQqfQ@mail.gmail.com> 
Message-ID: <001601d89143$7e241580$7a6c4080$@bluefrog.com>

Darn forgot to send to list again

Ron

 

From: Ron Fraser <rfraser at bluefrog.com> 
Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2022 10:19 AM
To: 'Robert Wanty' <bobwanty at gmail.com>; 'Larry Mayfield' <drmayf at mayfco.com>
Subject: RE: [Tigers] Evans Waterless Cooling

 

Bob

                Experiments by Ford and others show that there is minimal engine wear at 180 degrees.   Today I believe the thermostats are around 195 to 210 degrees.   This keeps all the fluids, oil and ATF, at optimum operating temp.

 

I did some work for a friend on his 5.0L Mustang, a number of little upgrades.   One of the items was a 160 thermostat.   I spent about an hour telling him not to go there, that he would hate it but he insisted.   Later, he told me he hated it.   MPG was down and he had little cabin heat.

 

Ron Fraser

 

From: Tigers <tigers-bounces at autox.team.net <mailto:tigers-bounces at autox.team.net> > On Behalf Of Robert Wanty via Tigers
Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2022 7:32 AM
To: Larry Mayfield <drmayf at mayfco.com <mailto:drmayf at mayfco.com> >
Cc: tigers <tigers at autox.team.net <mailto:tigers at autox.team.net> >
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Evans Waterless Cooling

 

I have a MK1 with a 260 bored 0.030 over with a mild cam, headers, ford cast iron 4bbl intake, stock cooling system. The thermostat is a 160 and I was told that the cooling system would work better with a 180 thermostat because the system would work more efficiently and shed more heat at the higher temperature. Not sure if this is true but seems as though that may make sense.

I found that if the air temperature is below 70 the car runs around 120, above 80 degrees at cruising speed it stays around 160 and around 220 at idle. Not sure what happens when the air temperature is above 85  to 90 because it is no fun driving around in a microwave so I drive a backup 911 with ac.

My 2 cents on the subject.

Bob

 

 


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On Tue, Jul 5, 2022 at 10:19 PM Larry Mayfield via Tigers <tigers at autox.team.net <mailto:tigers at autox.team.net> > wrote:

Thank you for the suggestion on finding the paper. I used exactly your suggestion, i.e.  ?Tiger Tom and tiger cooling study? and it was the first thing that popped up, lol.  I have scanned it and will do a more detailed review for myself as a bit of time goes on. 

I must say these experimenters did a pretty fair job at setting up and conducting the experiment and making comparisons.  I am going to comment of the state of rigor for the experiment and what the, what I call missing, elements of the experiment, could mean to the final results.  It is going to be long winded, a natural tendency of mine, lol. 

 

It was not very rigorous, in my opinion.  Let me explain, lest I be pilloried.  There are many parameters for the air and coolant conditions, the state of tune for the engine, that affect the results which do not seem to have been addressed as the  ?Why does it overheat at idle??  question, at least, I think that was the question. So, just who the dickens am I to question anything that these men did? Well, I spent 30+ years as a test engineer and manager for a large Aerospace company and did a lot of test analyses preceded by test design to make sure that the UUT was set up to produce the spec conditions and thus the results as nearly as perfectly as could be determined.  What these testers did was pretty dad gummed good. 

A.	The first thing was just how bad was the engine over heating at idle?  The conditions should have contained a detailed description of the same parameters used in the test. The atmospheric conditions, the absolute air temperature, the absolute air pressure (not baro), the humidity, and altitude,  entering the system. The system is defined as everything surrounding the vehicle.  Why is this important? Well, the conditions need to be replicated each time a test run is made. If you want to know that the changes made later have an effect, plus or minus.  Take humidity, humid air has less air in it, lol. Water vapor is less dense that the atmospheric make up and that means that the heat transfer rate is altered. Wha? Yes, heat is absorbed by the mass of coolant flowing both in the system and then into the ambient air.  The cooling air enthalpy and entropy can be calculated, with the help of ?steam? tables and charts with this data as to how well the ambient can cool something.  Flow rate of the cooling air is a key element but so is the actual mass of the air (with humidity) that flows through the radiator and into the engine compartment, and then into the surrounding ambient air.  Heat only flows from hot to cold and the smaller the difference, the less heat is removed. For instance: the air flow rate can be measured at some altitude with a low pressure but at seal level with the same conditions of temp have less mass. Again, it is the mass of and the particulars of the air?s make up that is important   If the test was conducted in a closed room for the idle issue, then the air was a few degrees warmer.   If outside, the temp and abs pressure (psia) is needed along with the humidity to know how well the system was performing. 
B.	The engine coolant needs to be examined in detail.  As has been stated, water is the VERY best heat transfer fluid. Adding radiator antifreeze is more than just to prevent the coolant from freezing, it also increases the boiling point. But it also adds protection to the iron and aluminum and other metallic components through which the coolant flows. An analysis for the constituents of the coolant could be made to determine just how effective it is as a heat transfer mechanism both in the engine and radiator at operating conditions. The flow rate through the radio need quantifying: a flow meter placed into the radiator water pump feed would be an excellent place to start. The flow rate with coolant out and the exit temperature and pressure measured, And the ambient conditions at that time, a better analysis of any changes can be made.  It should be noted that there are two other methods of cooling that come into play as well. That is convection and conduction. The conduction of heat through the block, the oil in the pan and pan, the head(s),  and anything that has coolant in it all come into play, so al the heat transfer coefficients of the materials need to be acquired along with their surface area and external conditions found in order to get an accurate analysis.  Another is radiation from the surfaces of the engine. The heat signatures or the infrared heat so to speak send heat out as photons heating everything the radiation touches. And convection, the air that cools the exterior of the engine as well as the engine bay must have air flow to remove the heat:  those surfaces all need to be monitored as well.  
C.	Lastly, for me anyway, is the state of turn of the engine. The air fuel ration needs to be monitored and the engine put into the best operating performance it can achieve. For instance, a lean burn is hotter, so if the AFR is high then as most racer know, the system will melt pistons (been there, done that).  The stochiometric air fuel ratio needs to be the same for every test.  At the best burn value.  Even a too rich burn can cause excess heat. The engine air inlet temp and air pressure should be monitored for analysis of fuel burn condition that leads to unexpected heat being generated.  Flow meters on the engine air intake and fuel as well as air and fuel temperature are needed. 

Was the experiment invalid? No, it was not. It provided useful, information that many had not through about and there are things that were made to that should have changed the results more than they appeared to change.  I congratulate them for the effort they put into this! 

 

If I was to do this experiment today, I would use a lot of electronics for concise parameter recording and then do a deeper analysis of the effect of the changeable components.  I would get myself an Arduino Mega 2560 module, a pile of temp sensors to stock on everything , a handful of pressure sensors, water and fuel flow meters,  A good thermodynamics textbook and go at it.  The Arduino IDE has a serial data output capability which can be recorded as well as a serial plotter which can display and record all  the data channels virtually simultaneously. All can be exported to excel if needed for individual parameter display.  

 

Or just drive and remind yourself that this car was designed a long time ago an dstuff just sometimes has to be accepted, lol. I would consider doing a repeat of the work done to date with my additions, except for the notion that I am not in the twilight of my years, but rather closer to the cinderela time, the clock is ticking now for sure at me approaching 81 years of age and slowing way, way, down. 

 

Mayf, twfs 210.779 mph out the back door? 

 

From: Tigers <tigers-bounces at autox.team.net <mailto:tigers-bounces at autox.team.net> > On Behalf Of LARRY PAULICK via Tigers
Sent: Sunday, July 3, 2022 6:40 AM
To: Owain Lloyd <owain.lloyd at gmail.com <mailto:owain.lloyd at gmail.com> >
Cc: tigers at autox.team.net <mailto:tigers at autox.team.net> 
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Evans Waterless Cooling

 

Dr. M, check the Tigers East Alpine East website or do a web search for Tiger Tom and tiger cooling study.  This is a very good starting point for finding that study, others may have a direct source.

 

On Jul 3, 2022, at 12:11 AM, Owain Lloyd <owain.lloyd at gmail.com <mailto:owain.lloyd at gmail.com> > wrote:

 

Buck, I live in the southern alps :)

40 Celsius and 2500m.  But was doing the same at normal temps and altitudes.

 

Il giorno sab 2 lug 2022 alle 22:13 Buck Trippel <bucktrippel at verizon.net <mailto:bucktrippel at verizon.net> > ha scritto:

Owain, have you encountered either high outside air temps or high altitudes when using Evans in your Tiger?

 

Buck

 

From: Owain Lloyd <owain.lloyd at gmail.com <mailto:owain.lloyd at gmail.com> > 
Sent: Saturday, July 2, 2022 8:42 AM
To: LARRY PAULICK <lpaulick1 at verizon.net <mailto:lpaulick1 at verizon.net> >
Cc: Buck Trippel <bucktrippel at verizon.net <mailto:bucktrippel at verizon.net> >; tigers at autox.team.net <mailto:tigers at autox.team.net> 
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Evans Waterless Cooling

 

Assuming all those things are done, evans is still not quite up to the job in my car.  Most of those cooling tricks are for slow moving car.  My car ran too hot even at speed with evans and the less than perfect radiator.  As I said, with a better radiator or with water instead it is fine.

 

My reason for preferring brass is that it can be easily soldered.  I struggled on for a long time with my brass radiator but eventually it was just too stress fatigued and needed frequent repair.  If I could get a new brass one I would certainly prefer that.

 

Il giorno sab 2 lug 2022 alle 17:36 LARRY PAULICK <lpaulick1 at verizon.net <mailto:lpaulick1 at verizon.net> > ha scritto:

Another issue is aluminum versus brass radiators.  Aluminum radiators are lighter but  brass transfers heat more efficiently.

 

When I redid my tiger, I used a three row versus a stock two row brass retaining the top, bottom, and sides so that the fit was not affected.

 

Also if you're replacing or having overheating problems, a closed impeller type water pump is much more efficient. Some aftermarket companies sell them already set up this way, but you can buy just the impeller plate from Summit for a very low price and install it yourself. Pumping efficiency is greatly improved.

 

TEAE did a study many years ago on all aspects of cooling. This excellent engineering study is still applicable today and well worth reading, dispelling a lot of myths.

 

Another design problem with the tiger is that there is no lower portion of the fan shroud. As a result, hot air is removed from the radiator then goes down to the ground and circles back through the front of the radiator, at rest.

 

I know this for a fact since I did smoke test and watched the air recirculating.

 

I fabricated a lower fan shroud from sheet metal, and made a low cost plastic air dam that comes down about 4 inches, to help the flow of air through the radiator and continue towards the rear of the car while in motion.

 

Bottom line it all works and I don't overheat.

 

I have to laugh at the commentos who keeps saying that the V8 takes up so much space that that's why they overheat. Just look at today's cars and how they fill the engine bay and it becomes apparent this is another myth.

 

On Jul 2, 2022, at 10:29 AM, Owain Lloyd <owain.lloyd at gmail.com <mailto:owain.lloyd at gmail.com> > wrote:

 

Yep.  I run in most cars with no problems but in the tiger with the 500hp motor I needed every bit of efficiency possible so had to switch off even back to water and antifreeze.  It worked sort of ok with the dale radiator but then I switched to another brand radiator and it just couldn?t keep the temps down.   Pretty sure it would be doable with an efficient and lower power motor if all the other cooling problems were taken care of.

 

Il giorno sab 2 lug 2022 alle 16:05 Buck Trippel via Tigers <tigers at autox.team.net <mailto:tigers at autox.team.net> > ha scritto:

In August of the hot summer of 2019 (aren?t they all hot now?) I put Evans in a Tiger which has an excellent two row aluminum radiator in front of a rather stock 289. My wife and I put the Tiger through an almost 5-thousand mile road test by driving from Los Angeles to La Crosse via I80/I90 to attend the TEAE United and then Route 66 on the way home. Temperatures were frequently at 100 degrees. So it got quite a test.

 

The Evans did not boil but with hot outside air temperatures its inferior specific heat (to water) could not remove adequately remove the engine heat. 

 

The carb got so hot the fuel percolated (boiled) inside the bowls and the engine stalled lean. This weakness was exacerbated at altitudes above 4-thousand feet. In Pueblo, with OATs near 100 I ended up on the same AAA tow truck twice on the same day. I then gave up and reluctantly drained maybe half of the the costly coolant out, replacing it with plain water so I could get home. However the percolation reoccurred crossing the Mojave in the 115 degree August temps. At home I replaced the Evans with water, adding Water Wetter for corrosion protection. 

 

I don?t have the numbers off the top of my head but the specific heat (or ability to transfer heat) of water is 1.00 while Evans is something like .65 or only 2/3 that of water. For me, Evans just did not do the job. From my experience I?d say one would have to be exceptionally brave to use it, especially with a stock radiator system or with a more powerful engine which will place even more demand on the Tiger?s weak cooling system. (BTW in the Tiger we drove on that trip, we had removed the stock block under the carb that hot radiator fluid passes through which probably have made even more of a problem.)

 

Buck Trippel

Ps I wrote up some of this years ago and I believe it contained a more detailed account of Evans heating issues on the trip ? I think it was published in both the TEAE and CAT newletters.

 

 

From: Tigers <tigers-bounces at autox.team.net <mailto:tigers-bounces at autox.team.net> > On Behalf Of Dr. T. Y. McDowell
Sent: Saturday, July 2, 2022 5:06 AM
To: Tiger's List <tigers at autox.team.net <mailto:tigers at autox.team.net> >
Subject: [Tigers] Evans Waterless Cooling

 

Is anyone out there in Tigerland using Evans Waterless Coolant? 

It has a boiling point of 375 (F).  I'd like to hear from anyone who's using it as I'm considering it. 

 

Thanks in advance, 

 

Tym McDowell 

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Virus-free.  <http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail> www.avg.com 

 

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From rfraser at bluefrog.com  Tue Jul 12 13:49:36 2022
From: rfraser at bluefrog.com (Ron Fraser)
Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2022 15:49:36 -0400
Subject: [Tigers]
 https://www.motortrend.com/features/1965-sunbeam-tiger-mark-i-shelby-cobra-alternative/
Message-ID: <000d01d89628$853daea0$8fb90be0$@bluefrog.com>

Here is an interesting article.

 
<https://www.motortrend.com/features/1965-sunbeam-tiger-mark-i-shelby-cobra-
alternative/> Unrestored 1965 Sunbeam Tiger Mark I: The Cheap Shelby Cobra
Alternative? (motortrend.com)

 

Not all the details are correct but a good write up.

 

Check out all the pictures.

 

I would say his definition of unrestored is different than mine.

 

Engine compartment looks stock but not everything looks original to me.

 

There are some other Tiger articles listed at the bottom of the page.

 

Ron Fraser

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From maliburevue at yahoo.com  Tue Jul 12 15:57:09 2022
From: maliburevue at yahoo.com (Gary)
Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2022 21:57:09 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Tigers]
 https://www.motortrend.com/features/1965-sunbeam-tiger-mark-i-shelby-cobra-alternative/
In-Reply-To: <000d01d89628$853daea0$8fb90be0$@bluefrog.com>
References: <000d01d89628$853daea0$8fb90be0$@bluefrog.com>
Message-ID: <442305102.695551.1657663029262@mail.yahoo.com>

 A Cobra is just a rich man's Tiger.
    On Tuesday, July 12, 2022 at 03:36:56 PM MDT, Ron Fraser <rfraser at bluefrog.com> wrote: 
Here is an interesting article.

Unrestored 1965 Sunbeam Tiger Mark I: The Cheap Shelby Cobra Alternative? (motortrend.com)

Not all the details are correct but a good write up.

Check out all the pictures.

I would say his definition of unrestored is different than mine.

Engine compartment looks stock but not everything looks original to me.

There are some other Tiger articles listed at the bottom of the page.

Ron Fraser
_______________________________________________

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From garywinblad at comcast.net  Tue Jul 12 16:48:34 2022
From: garywinblad at comcast.net (GARY WINBLAD)
Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2022 18:48:34 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Tigers]
 https://www.motortrend.com/features/1965-sunbeam-tiger-mark-i-shelby-cobra-alternative/
In-Reply-To: <000d01d89628$853daea0$8fb90be0$@bluefrog.com>
References: <000d01d89628$853daea0$8fb90be0$@bluefrog.com>
Message-ID: <791544631.2060941.1657666114189@connect.xfinity.com>

That looks like the Tiger that just sold at the auction for $100k..?
Gary


>     On 07/12/2022 3:49 PM Ron Fraser <rfraser at bluefrog.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>     Here is an interesting article.
> 
>     Unrestored 1965 Sunbeam Tiger Mark I: The Cheap Shelby Cobra Alternative? (motortrend.com) https://www.motortrend.com/features/1965-sunbeam-tiger-mark-i-shelby-cobra-alternative/
> 
> 
>     Not all the details are correct but a good write up.
> 
> 
>     Check out all the pictures.
> 
> 
>     I would say his definition of unrestored is different than mine.
> 
> 
>     Engine compartment looks stock but not everything looks original to me.
> 
> 
>     There are some other Tiger articles listed at the bottom of the page.
> 
> 
>     Ron Fraser
> 
>     _______________________________________________
> 
>     tigers at autox.team.net
> 
>     Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>     Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive
> 
>     Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/garywinblad at comcast.net
> 
> 
> 
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From rfraser at bluefrog.com  Tue Jul 12 17:27:25 2022
From: rfraser at bluefrog.com (Ron Fraser)
Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2022 19:27:25 -0400
Subject: [Tigers]
 https://www.motortrend.com/features/1965-sunbeam-tiger-mark-i-shelby-cobra-alternative/
In-Reply-To: <442305102.695551.1657663029262@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <000d01d89628$853daea0$8fb90be0$@bluefrog.com>
 <442305102.695551.1657663029262@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <002401d89646$f2c7ff20$d857fd60$@bluefrog.com>

Cobra is a race car that could be driven on the street as a daily driver in nice weather.

 

I got a ride in a 289 Cobra at Pocono race track.   He snapped the Cobra to 120 mph like nothing.  He would have gone faster but he did not get the wire wheels balanced to his satisfaction.   There was a slight shake in the steering wheel.   Breath taking experience.

 

Tiger is a touring car with some luxury and comfort build in, an all weather daily driver.

 

Back in the day there was only a couple thousand dollar difference in price but that was big money then.   Both have good and bad merits.

 

Ron Fraser

 

 

 

From: Gary <maliburevue at yahoo.com> 
Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2022 5:57 PM
To: tigers at autox.team.net; Ron Fraser <rfraser at bluefrog.com>
Subject: Re: [Tigers] https://www.motortrend.com/features/1965-sunbeam-tiger-mark-i-shelby-cobra-alternative/

 

A Cobra is just a rich man's Tiger.

 

On Tuesday, July 12, 2022 at 03:36:56 PM MDT, Ron Fraser <rfraser at bluefrog.com <mailto:rfraser at bluefrog.com> > wrote:

Here is an interesting article.

Unrestored 1965 Sunbeam Tiger Mark I: The Cheap Shelby Cobra Alternative? (motortrend.com) <https://www.motortrend.com/features/1965-sunbeam-tiger-mark-i-shelby-cobra-alternative/> 

Not all the details are correct but a good write up.

Check out all the pictures.

I would say his definition of unrestored is different than mine.

Engine compartment looks stock but not everything looks original to me.

There are some other Tiger articles listed at the bottom of the page.

Ron Fraser

_______________________________________________

tigers at autox.team.net <mailto:tigers at autox.team.net> 

Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
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From awtiger at cox.net  Tue Jul 12 22:04:58 2022
From: awtiger at cox.net (Andy Walker)
Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2022 23:04:58 -0500
Subject: [Tigers]
 https://www.motortrend.com/features/1965-sunbeam-tiger-mark-i-shelby-cobra-alternative/
In-Reply-To: <791544631.2060941.1657666114189@connect.xfinity.com>
References: <000d01d89628$853daea0$8fb90be0$@bluefrog.com>
 <791544631.2060941.1657666114189@connect.xfinity.com>
Message-ID: <000c01d8966d$ba5bf520$2f13df60$@cox.net>

Yes, Gary?I do believe it was.

 

Andy Walker

Edmond, OK

 

From: Tigers [mailto:tigers-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of GARY WINBLAD
Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2022 5:49 PM
To: Ron Fraser <rfraser at bluefrog.com>; tigers at Autox.Team.Net
Subject: Re: [Tigers] https://www.motortrend.com/features/1965-sunbeam-tiger-mark-i-shelby-cobra-alternative/

 

That looks like the Tiger that just sold at the auction for $100k..? 

Gary 

 

On 07/12/2022 3:49 PM Ron Fraser <rfraser at bluefrog.com <mailto:rfraser at bluefrog.com> > wrote: 

 

 

Here is an interesting article.

Unrestored 1965 Sunbeam Tiger Mark I: The Cheap Shelby Cobra Alternative? (motortrend.com) <https://www.motortrend.com/features/1965-sunbeam-tiger-mark-i-shelby-cobra-alternative/> 

 

Not all the details are correct but a good write up.

 

Check out all the pictures.

 

I would say his definition of unrestored is different than mine.

 

Engine compartment looks stock but not everything looks original to me.

 

There are some other Tiger articles listed at the bottom of the page.

 

Ron Fraser

_______________________________________________ 

tigers at autox.team.net <mailto:tigers at autox.team.net>  

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From coolvt at aol.com  Thu Jul 21 14:56:44 2022
From: coolvt at aol.com (coolvt at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2022 20:56:44 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Tigers] The futurer- Flatbed to a charging station.
References: <604696944.586094.1658437004419.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <604696944.586094.1658437004419@mail.yahoo.com>


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From coolvt at aol.com  Sun Jul 24 11:30:05 2022
From: coolvt at aol.com (coolvt at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2022 17:30:05 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Tigers] More on electric cars
References: <1807265001.1483113.1658683805622.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1807265001.1483113.1658683805622@mail.yahoo.com>


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From tsmit at shaw.ca  Sun Jul 24 13:21:22 2022
From: tsmit at shaw.ca (Theo Smit)
Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2022 13:21:22 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: [Tigers] More on electric cars
In-Reply-To: <1807265001.1483113.1658683805622@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <1807265001.1483113.1658683805622.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
 <1807265001.1483113.1658683805622@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <682059807.41026714.1658690482801.JavaMail.zimbra@shaw.ca>

Geez. With all due apologies to Bill Watterson, you forgot the image of the little boy peeing on an EV charger socket. 

What's with the hate on EVs? The way I look at it, any gas that I don't burn driving my Polestar, I get to use in the Tiger instead. 

Theo 


From: "coolvt--- via Tigers" <tigers at autox.team.net> 
To: "tigers" <tigers at autox.team.net> 
Sent: Sunday, July 24, 2022 11:30:05 AM 
Subject: [Tigers] More on electric cars 



_______________________________________________ 

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From chris at cthompson.net  Sun Jul 24 13:51:51 2022
From: chris at cthompson.net (chris cthompson.net)
Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2022 19:51:51 +0000
Subject: [Tigers] More on electric cars
In-Reply-To: <682059807.41026714.1658690482801.JavaMail.zimbra@shaw.ca>
References: <1807265001.1483113.1658683805622.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
 <1807265001.1483113.1658683805622@mail.yahoo.com>
 <682059807.41026714.1658690482801.JavaMail.zimbra@shaw.ca>
Message-ID: <CO6PR16MB4161DACA03B25CA8B6D6E611B7929@CO6PR16MB4161.namprd16.prod.outlook.com>

0-60 in 2.6 secs was all I needed to know??

From: Tigers <tigers-bounces at autox.team.net> On Behalf Of Theo Smit
Sent: Sunday, July 24, 2022 3:21 PM
To: coolvt <coolvt at aol.com>
Cc: tigers <tigers at autox.team.net>
Subject: Re: [Tigers] More on electric cars

Geez. With all due apologies to Bill Watterson, you forgot the image of the little boy peeing on an EV charger socket.

What's with the hate on EVs? The way I look at it, any gas that I don't burn driving my Polestar, I get to use in the Tiger instead.

Theo

________________________________
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From drmayf at mayfco.com  Sun Jul 24 14:16:55 2022
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (Larry Mayfield)
Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2022 13:16:55 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] More on electric cars
In-Reply-To: <1807265001.1483113.1658683805622@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <1807265001.1483113.1658683805622.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
 <1807265001.1483113.1658683805622@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <000001d89f9a$53d975d0$fb8c6170$@mayfco.com>

Great sentiment! But? how do you tell one electron from another? Perhaps the wording for any new law says that only those producers who are NOT on a  national grid can supply the e cars and other vehicles. Or perhaps that every car must be charged by a non-grid home or employer based company system not on a grid. And how would we validate the purchase point supplier for the electrons? 

Male the non-fossil fueled power plants the only ones who can supply the electricity for the new future, and tax the others to death to the point where thy go out of business. Tax the generators AND the home and Business users of fossil fuel  and then tax holiday to the users of non-fossil fuels handsomely!  

 

I can see the Pols lining up to tak eon the challenge right now!,,,, Not!.  

 

Fun thinking about it though. 

 

mayf

 

From: Tigers <tigers-bounces at autox.team.net> On Behalf Of coolvt--- via Tigers
Sent: Sunday, July 24, 2022 10:30 AM
To: tigers at autox.team.net
Subject: [Tigers] More on electric cars

 



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From rollright at aol.com  Sat Jul 30 08:53:59 2022
From: rollright at aol.com (JAMES ARMSTRONG)
Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2022 10:53:59 -0400
Subject: [Tigers] Information
References: <5F392F3A-C645-4E8E-A0B6-9C7BA10E07A1.ref@aol.com>
Message-ID: <5F392F3A-C645-4E8E-A0B6-9C7BA10E07A1@aol.com>

Sorry to bomb the list, but I was at a car show the other day and met a young man with an ancient Toyota. Well, compared to our Sunbeams, it was a number of years newer. Does anybody know if there?s a listserv like this one for early 70s Toyotas?

Jim Armstrong

Sent from my iPhone

From gregdawg89 at hotmail.com  Sat Jul 30 10:32:17 2022
From: gregdawg89 at hotmail.com (Greg Oliver)
Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2022 16:32:17 +0000
Subject: [Tigers] Information
In-Reply-To: <5F392F3A-C645-4E8E-A0B6-9C7BA10E07A1@aol.com>
References: <5F392F3A-C645-4E8E-A0B6-9C7BA10E07A1.ref@aol.com>
 <5F392F3A-C645-4E8E-A0B6-9C7BA10E07A1@aol.com>
Message-ID: <MW4PR20MB45024CAA2AA79D433A798020CC989@MW4PR20MB4502.namprd20.prod.outlook.com>

Good question ? I have a right hand drive (JDM) 1972 Toyota Corona Mark II MX-22.  ?


From: JAMES ARMSTRONG via Tigers<mailto:tigers at autox.team.net>
Sent: Saturday, July 30, 2022 9:18 AM
To: Tiger's Den<mailto:tigers at autox.team.net>
Subject: [Tigers] Information

Sorry to bomb the list, but I was at a car show the other day and met a young man with an ancient Toyota. Well, compared to our Sunbeams, it was a number of years newer. Does anybody know if there?s a listserv like this one for early 70s Toyotas?

Jim Armstrong

Sent from my iPhone
_______________________________________________

tigers at autox.team.net

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From hmichel at roadrunner.com  Sun Jul 31 11:19:14 2022
From: hmichel at roadrunner.com (Herb Michel)
Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2022 10:19:14 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] Go
Message-ID: <AF404102-2A05-4F65-A009-DB24EC26D699@roadrunner.com>



Sent from my iPhone

From rollright at aol.com  Sun Jul 31 11:19:30 2022
From: rollright at aol.com (JAMES ARMSTRONG)
Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2022 13:19:30 -0400
Subject: [Tigers] Radial versus bias ply
References: <767C4461-3CCC-4CF2-8D6E-F3A9DB29B89C.ref@aol.com>
Message-ID: <767C4461-3CCC-4CF2-8D6E-F3A9DB29B89C@aol.com>

I know it?s been a long time ago, but does anybody remember the difference between switching from bias ply to radial tires? It?s pretty much an academic question I know, because everybody?s running radials, but I was wondering what it was like to drive a Sunbeam Tiger or Alpine on bias ply tires.
Jim Armstrong

Sent from my iPhone

From owain.lloyd at gmail.com  Sun Jul 31 11:53:20 2022
From: owain.lloyd at gmail.com (Owain Lloyd)
Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2022 18:53:20 +0100
Subject: [Tigers] Radial versus bias ply
In-Reply-To: <767C4461-3CCC-4CF2-8D6E-F3A9DB29B89C@aol.com>
References: <767C4461-3CCC-4CF2-8D6E-F3A9DB29B89C.ref@aol.com>
 <767C4461-3CCC-4CF2-8D6E-F3A9DB29B89C@aol.com>
Message-ID: <CANE47iRry1AfBRGyonFz+ZegTpD_0Gw9_ZaXmOjoHVaVR5nntA@mail.gmail.com>

Even scarier than it is on radials I would imagine!

That said, narrower (165) tires are more fun so comparing cross ply to fat
radials are different in many ways.

On Sun, 31 Jul 2022 at 18:45, JAMES ARMSTRONG via Tigers <
tigers at autox.team.net> wrote:

> I know it?s been a long time ago, but does anybody remember the difference
> between switching from bias ply to radial tires? It?s pretty much an
> academic question I know, because everybody?s running radials, but I was
> wondering what it was like to drive a Sunbeam Tiger or Alpine on bias ply
> tires.
> Jim Armstrong
>
> Sent from my iPhone
> _______________________________________________
>
> tigers at autox.team.net
>
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers
> http://autox.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/owain.lloyd at gmail.com
>
>
>
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From fast427 at sbcglobal.net  Sun Jul 31 13:00:07 2022
From: fast427 at sbcglobal.net (Donald Antilla)
Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2022 15:00:07 -0400
Subject: [Tigers] Radial versus bias ply
In-Reply-To: <CANE47iRry1AfBRGyonFz+ZegTpD_0Gw9_ZaXmOjoHVaVR5nntA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <767C4461-3CCC-4CF2-8D6E-F3A9DB29B89C.ref@aol.com>
 <767C4461-3CCC-4CF2-8D6E-F3A9DB29B89C@aol.com>
 <CANE47iRry1AfBRGyonFz+ZegTpD_0Gw9_ZaXmOjoHVaVR5nntA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <FE9F6682-17E4-454C-A60B-CA32BBC06FD4@sbcglobal.net>

When switching to radials, it is a good idea to increase the caster setting.

Radials have a different ?contact patch? on the ground, and to make up for it and have decent caster, you should increase it. I used about 4.5 degrees on my Series 200 Griffith and steering stability is good.

Don A

 

From: Tigers <tigers-bounces at autox.team.net> on behalf of Owain Lloyd via Tigers <tigers at autox.team.net>
Reply-To: <owain.lloyd at gmail.com>
Date: Sunday, July 31, 2022 at 2:16 PM
To: JAMES ARMSTRONG <rollright at aol.com>
Cc: Tiger's Den <tigers at autox.team.net>
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Radial versus bias ply

 

Even scarier than it is on radials I would imagine!

 

That said, narrower (165) tires are more fun so comparing cross ply to fat radials are different in many ways.

 

On Sun, 31 Jul 2022 at 18:45, JAMES ARMSTRONG via Tigers <tigers at autox.team.net> wrote:

I know it?s been a long time ago, but does anybody remember the difference between switching from bias ply to radial tires? It?s pretty much an academic question I know, because everybody?s running radials, but I was wondering what it was like to drive a Sunbeam Tiger or Alpine on bias ply tires.
Jim Armstrong

Sent from my iPhone
_______________________________________________

tigers at autox.team.net

Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive

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_______________________________________________ tigers at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/fast427 at sbcglobal.net 

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From rollright at aol.com  Sun Jul 31 14:45:59 2022
From: rollright at aol.com (James Armstrong)
Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2022 20:45:59 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Tigers] Fwd:  Radial versus bias ply
In-Reply-To: <FE9F6682-17E4-454C-A60B-CA32BBC06FD4@sbcglobal.net>
References: <767C4461-3CCC-4CF2-8D6E-F3A9DB29B89C.ref@aol.com>
 <767C4461-3CCC-4CF2-8D6E-F3A9DB29B89C@aol.com>
 <CANE47iRry1AfBRGyonFz+ZegTpD_0Gw9_ZaXmOjoHVaVR5nntA@mail.gmail.com>
 <FE9F6682-17E4-454C-A60B-CA32BBC06FD4@sbcglobal.net>
Message-ID: <829275292.2542425.1659300359914@mail.yahoo.com>

?Good advice?Thanks Don?Jim Armstrong

From: fast427 at sbcglobal.net
To: owain.lloyd at gmail.com, rollright at aol.com
Cc: tigers at autox.team.net
Sent: 7/31/2022 3:00:13 PM Eastern Standard Time
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Radial versus bias ply


When switching to radials, it is a good idea to increase the caster setting.

Radials have a different ?contact patch? on the ground, and to make up for it and have decent caster, you should increase it. I used about 4.5 degrees on my Series 200 Griffith and steering stability is good.

Don A

 ?

From: Tigers <tigers-bounces at autox.team.net> on behalf of Owain Lloyd via Tigers <tigers at autox.team.net>
Reply-To: <owain.lloyd at gmail.com>
Date: Sunday, July 31, 2022 at 2:16 PM
To: JAMES ARMSTRONG <rollright at aol.com>
Cc: Tiger's Den <tigers at autox.team.net>
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Radial versus bias ply

?

Even scarier than it is on radials I would imagine!

?

That said, narrower (165) tires are more fun so comparing cross ply to fat radials are different in many ways.

?

On Sun, 31 Jul 2022 at 18:45, JAMES ARMSTRONG via Tigers <tigers at autox.team.net> wrote:


I know it?s been a long time ago, but does anybody remember the difference between switching from bias ply to radial tires? It?s pretty much an academic question I know, because everybody?s running radials, but I was wondering what it was like to drive a Sunbeam Tiger or Alpine on bias ply tires.
Jim Armstrong

Sent from my iPhone
_______________________________________________

tigers at autox.team.net

Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive

Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/owain.lloyd at gmail.com




_______________________________________________ tigers at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/fast427 at sbcglobal.net

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From rollright at aol.com  Sun Jul 31 17:36:22 2022
From: rollright at aol.com (JAMES ARMSTRONG)
Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2022 19:36:22 -0400
Subject: [Tigers] Radial versus bias ply
In-Reply-To: <MN0PR15MB5324BFC684078468ECFB402AD19B9@MN0PR15MB5324.namprd15.prod.outlook.com>
References: <MN0PR15MB5324BFC684078468ECFB402AD19B9@MN0PR15MB5324.namprd15.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <6908BE73-4A18-4D6A-90F9-751685CCDD02@aol.com>

Thanks Dan. I put a set of Michelin X on my Sunbeam when I first got it, but I don?t remember What it was like when I first got it. I bought the car used in 1976 it was first registered in my state in 1967. I remember going inordinately fast on a Sunday morning on route 128 in Massachusetts very early in the morning indicated on the speedometer at 125. We were young then!!!

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 31, 2022, at 5:23 PM, Dan Cordray <dcordray82 at hotmail.com> wrote:
> 
> ?
> To answer your basic question ("What was it like..."), in 1966 I was given a used (but still good) set of Michelin X tires (remember them?). I installed these in place of the original equipment Dunlop SP tires (1965 Mk1). I was amazed at the difference these made in the overall enjoyment of the car. Handled better; rode better; better mileage; etc. etc. It was a revelation to a person who was still very early in his automotive journey.
> 
> Dan Cordray
> 
> From: Tigers <tigers-bounces at autox.team.net> on behalf of JAMES ARMSTRONG via Tigers <tigers at autox.team.net>
> Sent: Sunday, July 31, 2022 12:19 PM
> To: Tiger's Den <tigers at autox.team.net>
> Subject: [Tigers] Radial versus bias ply
>  
> I know it?s been a long time ago, but does anybody remember the difference between switching from bias ply to radial tires? It?s pretty much an academic question I know, because everybody?s running radials, but I was wondering what it was like to drive a Sunbeam Tiger or Alpine on bias ply tires.
> Jim Armstrong
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> _______________________________________________
> 
> tigers at autox.team.net
> 
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive
> 
> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/dcordray82 at hotmail.com
> 
> 
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From robertdhogan at gmail.com  Sun Jul 31 18:26:00 2022
From: robertdhogan at gmail.com (Rob Hogan)
Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2022 20:26:00 -0400
Subject: [Tigers] Radial versus bias ply
In-Reply-To: <767C4461-3CCC-4CF2-8D6E-F3A9DB29B89C@aol.com>
References: <767C4461-3CCC-4CF2-8D6E-F3A9DB29B89C.ref@aol.com>
 <767C4461-3CCC-4CF2-8D6E-F3A9DB29B89C@aol.com>
Message-ID: <CANcw8Mh0ZGJ6Gf8=gXSn4aF5zt6Bbtw+KX=TwV+fMzSTuRceFQ@mail.gmail.com>

39 years ago, I ran 235/50R-13 Firestone "Super Sports" bias ply tires on
the Tiger's rear 7"x13" American Racing Vector wheels (they're still on the
static car) for the purpose of being more controllable and sensitive to
lateral slippage.  I could pull some tight turns with those tires and sense
exactly how they would slide and regrip whereas the former 185/70-R13
radials tended to wind up the sidewalls like a spring and break traction
suddenly.  It isn't that a 235/50-R13 radial wouldn't be as good or better,
but I liked the performance of the bias plys when they were new.  Those
40-year-old tires are GFN now.

On Sun, Jul 31, 2022 at 1:55 PM JAMES ARMSTRONG via Tigers <
tigers at autox.team.net> wrote:

> I know it?s been a long time ago, but does anybody remember the difference
> between switching from bias ply to radial tires? It?s pretty much an
> academic question I know, because everybody?s running radials, but I was
> wondering what it was like to drive a Sunbeam Tiger or Alpine on bias ply
> tires.
> Jim Armstrong
>
> Sent from my iPhone
> _______________________________________________
>
> tigers at autox.team.net
>
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers
> http://autox.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/robertdhogan at gmail.com
>
>
>
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From dcordray82 at hotmail.com  Sun Jul 31 15:23:25 2022
From: dcordray82 at hotmail.com (Dan Cordray)
Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2022 21:23:25 +0000
Subject: [Tigers] Radial versus bias ply
In-Reply-To: <767C4461-3CCC-4CF2-8D6E-F3A9DB29B89C@aol.com>
References: <767C4461-3CCC-4CF2-8D6E-F3A9DB29B89C.ref@aol.com>
 <767C4461-3CCC-4CF2-8D6E-F3A9DB29B89C@aol.com>
Message-ID: <MN0PR15MB5324BFC684078468ECFB402AD19B9@MN0PR15MB5324.namprd15.prod.outlook.com>

To answer your basic question ("What was it like..."), in 1966 I was given a used (but still good) set of Michelin X tires (remember them?). I installed these in place of the original equipment Dunlop SP tires (1965 Mk1). I was amazed at the difference these made in the overall enjoyment of the car. Handled better; rode better; better mileage; etc. etc. It was a revelation to a person who was still very early in his automotive journey.

Dan Cordray

________________________________
From: Tigers <tigers-bounces at autox.team.net> on behalf of JAMES ARMSTRONG via Tigers <tigers at autox.team.net>
Sent: Sunday, July 31, 2022 12:19 PM
To: Tiger's Den <tigers at autox.team.net>
Subject: [Tigers] Radial versus bias ply

I know it?s been a long time ago, but does anybody remember the difference between switching from bias ply to radial tires? It?s pretty much an academic question I know, because everybody?s running radials, but I was wondering what it was like to drive a Sunbeam Tiger or Alpine on bias ply tires.
Jim Armstrong

Sent from my iPhone
_______________________________________________

tigers at autox.team.net

Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive

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