[Tigers] Tigers Digest, Vol 15, Issue 111

Sat Feb 19 17:19:00 MST 2022

 Thanks to all for the ideas.  Keep them coming.

Actually the brakes were\are locked up even without the plunger being attached to the brake pedal.  When the plunger is hook up via the clovis pin, the pedal is still about 1/2" from hitting the cowl or whatever you want to call the metal body just above the pedals.
Also this was purchased from SS back in 2013 part # HP42 but not run until about 3 years ago so I am thinking, cannot remember for sure, that the plunger came with the brake master back then or not.  It looks relatively new.  Also the dust boot appears to attach on the inside of the MC and not over the top on the outside.
I looked at Curt's brake master and the plunger is adjustable at the 'u' via 2 nuts.  Plus the dust boot does sit on the outside top of the MC and not inside.  Design issue 8 years ago?

Since the plunger was maybe locking up the brakes when we installed, maybe, that is why we did not install the washer on the inside of the circlip.  It worked and we just moved forward.  Fast forward 3-5 years, that was probably not a good decision.
I like the idea of maybe too much fluid inside the MC not allowing the bleed back hole open.  Will try and open a brake bleeder and let a little fluid out.

    On Saturday, February 19, 2022, 06:23:02 PM EST, tigers-request at autox.team.net <tigers-request at autox.team.net> wrote: 

 Perhaps the piston was too far out before.  So there is too much fluid in the MC.  Crack open one slave to release the excess and see if that takes care of it. 
With hose, etc. of course

If the plunger is too long it will not retract enough to open the bleed-back hole in the master cylinder.  I had this problem when I installed a new master cylinder that had a too long plunger.  It seemed to work okay until I got a few blocks from home and it locked up.  The front brakes got hot and cooked the rubber pieces and I had to rebuild everything.

I don’t think my comment really works.  I think as Joe pointed out, it should flow back to the reservoir.  Although I don’t understand how a plunger that is too long could cause problems either.  If the plunger it too long, that will just cause the pedal to be higher.  Unless the higher pedal hits something and that causes the plunger not to pull all the way out.
As Joe pointed out, if it doesn’t come back far enough, then the hole to the reservoir won’t get uncovered.  Maybe the piston or the round end of the plunger are wrong, and not allowing the piston to set all the way back.  And maybe that’s why someone assembled it before with the disk outside of the circlip.

 Send Tigers mailing list submissions to
    tigers at autox.team.net

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
    http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
    tigers-request at autox.team.net

You can reach the person managing the list at
    tigers-owner at autox.team.net

When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of Tigers digest..."
Today's Topics:

  1. Re: Tigers Digest, Vol 15, Issue 103 (Jay Laifman)
Perhaps the piston was too far out before.  So there is too much fluid in the MC.  Crack open one slave to release the excess and see if that takes care of it. 
With hose, etc. of course

On Feb 19, 2022, at 2:39 PM, Joel Martin via Tigers <tigers at autox.team.net> wrote:

 Now I am confused.  Take out circle clip , insert plunger, then washer, reinsert  circle clip, dust boot, return spring, 3/4 cup.  Place u end of plunger in brake pedal, insert Clovis pin, insert cotter.
Brakes are now engaged and locked up with no pedal being applied.
What is going on?  Ideas?
Thanks
    On Thursday, February 17, 2022, 04:28:45 PM EST, <tigers-request at autox.team.net> wrote:  

 Send Tigers mailing list submissions to
    tigers at autox.team.net

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
    http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
    tigers-request at autox.team.net

You can reach the person managing the list at
    tigers-owner at autox.team.net

When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of Tigers digest..."
Today's Topics:

  1. Re: Tigers Digest, Vol 15, Issue 89 (Ron Fraser)
  2. Re: Tigers Digest, Vol 15, Issue 89 (GARY WINBLAD)

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=girling+master+brake+repair+youtube&&view=detail&mid=DF31F3F9694CCB04558EDF31F3F9694CCB04558E&&FORM=VRDGAR&ru=%2Fvideos%2Fsearch%3Fq%3Dgirling%2520master%2520brake%2520repair%2520youtube%26%26FORM%3DVDVVXX

Here is a YouTube that might help you understand the assembly.

The disc on the rod goes into the bore then the circlip fits into the bore holding everything in.

The hardest part is getting a new rubber boot on without splitting it which rarely happens.

Ron Fraser 

From: Tigers <tigers-bounces at autox.team.net> On Behalf Of Joel Martin via Tigers
Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2022 1:01 PM
To: Tiger List Serve <tigers at autox.team.net>
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tigers Digest, Vol 15, Issue 89

On Thursday, February 17, 2022, 05:36:52 AM EST, Joel Martin <jmartiniii at yahoo.com> wrote: 

Hello all.

I pulled apart the brake actuator today and the whole thing just fell out of the rubber boot?  Rubber boot was split.  There is a circle clip up next to the master cylinder plunger still in place.

Here is a picture of my brake setup which does not match the picture below from the workshop manual.

My question:  How is the brake actuating rod retained in the master cylinder so it will not come out?

On Monday, February 14, 2022, 08:45:16 PM EST, <tigers-request at autox.team.net> wrote: 

Send Tigers mailing list submissions to

    tigers at autox.team.net

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit

    http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers

or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to

    tigers-request at autox.team.net

You can reach the person managing the list at

    tigers-owner at autox.team.net

When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific

than "Re: Contents of Tigers digest..."

Today's Topics:

  1. Brake Pedal (Joel Martin)
  2. Re: Brake Pedal (Jay)
  3. Re: Brake Pedal (Will Seay)

1966 Tiger MK 1A

Thanks

There are so many oddities here.  First, at one end, the plunger should  have a disc at the end, with a circlip that holds it in.  That rubber boot would likely hold in the disc, even if the circlip broke.  So since it “came out” of the rubber, it sounds like the center of the disc is some how flawed.  But FWIW, I can’t imagine how that would happen unless something was quite odd in the assembly.

On Feb 14, 2022, at 4:28 PM, Joel Martin via Tigers <tigers at autox.team.net> wrote:

1966 Tiger MK 1A

I had a little scare the other day backing out of the DMV parking lot.  No Brakes.  Discovered that the brake plunger had come out of the rubber sleeve going into the master cylinder.

The only thing that could have happened is when I got out, my foot pulled the pedal back towards the interior and this pulled the plunger out.

It only had the spring, plunger and rubber plug to hold the plunger into the master cylinder.

Is there suppose to be something else to hold the plunger in place?

Thanks

_______________________________________________

tigers at autox.team.net

Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive

Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/jay.laifman@gmail.com

Joel,

Your master cylinder was apparently assembled without the circlip.  See #2 in the attached from the workshop manual.

Will - 382001570 
Tigers at embarqmail.com

On Mon, Feb 14, 2022 at 7:28 PM Joel Martin via Tigers <tigers at autox.team.net> wrote:

1966 Tiger MK 1A

I had a little scare the other day backing out of the DMV parking lot.  No Brakes.  Discovered that the brake plunger had come out of the rubber sleeve going into the master cylinder.

The only thing that could have happened is when I got out, my foot pulled the pedal back towards the interior and this pulled the plunger out.

It only had the spring, plunger and rubber plug to hold the plunger into the master cylinder.

Is there suppose to be something else to hold the plunger in place?

Thanks

_______________________________________________

tigers at autox.team.net

Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive

Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/tigers@embarqmail.com

_______________________________________________
Tigers mailing list
Tigers at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers

Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive
   Yup, it was assembled WRONG. 
   Yes, it appears to be assembled according to the photo that was posted from the 
   shop manual... which is wrong. 

   The circlip must retain the washer that is captive on the pushrod.  Pushrod should NOT 
   fall out loose from the master cylinder assembly. 

   Hopefully you did not sustain any injury or damage to your Tiger. 
   Gary 

  On 02/17/2022 1:35 PM Jay <jay.laifman at gmail.com> wrote:   

 That totally matches what I would expect to see.  That round disc should have been on the inside of the clip.  So either it was not assembled that way, which is odd.  Or perhaps the disk is a smaller OD than the ID of the MC and the clip. 

  On Feb 17, 2022, at 12:01 PM, Joel Martin via Tigers <tigers at autox.team.net> wrote:  

      On Thursday, February 17, 2022, 05:36:52 AM EST, Joel Martin <jmartiniii at yahoo.com> wrote:   

         Hello all.   
   I pulled apart the brake actuator today and the whole thing just fell out of the rubber boot?  Rubber boot was split.  There is a circle clip up next to the master cylinder plunger still in place. 

        Here is a picture of my brake setup which does not match the picture below from the workshop manual.   
   My question:  How is the brake actuating rod retained in the master cylinder so it will not come out?   
   <My_Brake_plunger.jpg> 

       On Monday, February 14, 2022, 08:45:16 PM EST, <tigers-request at autox.team.net> wrote:   

    Send Tigers mailing list submissions to 
       tigers at autox.team.net 

   To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit 
       http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers 
   or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to 
       tigers-request at autox.team.net 

   You can reach the person managing the list at 
       tigers-owner at autox.team.net 

   When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific 
   than "Re: Contents of Tigers digest..." 
 Today's Topics: 

  1. Brake Pedal (Joel Martin) 
  2. Re: Brake Pedal (Jay) 
  3. Re: Brake Pedal (Will Seay) 
      1966 Tiger MK 1A   

  Thanks 
         There are so many oddities here.  First, at one end, the plunger should  have a disc at the end, with a circlip that holds it in.  That rubber boot would likely hold in the disc, even if the circlip broke.  So since it “came out” of the rubber, it sounds like the center of the disc is some how flawed.  But FWIW, I can’t imagine how that would happen unless something was quite odd in the assembly.  

  On Feb 14, 2022, at 4:28 PM, Joel Martin via Tigers <tigers at autox.team.net> wrote:  
     1966 Tiger MK 1A   
   I had a little scare the other day backing out of the DMV parking lot.  No Brakes.  Discovered that the brake plunger had come out of the rubber sleeve going into the master cylinder.   
   The only thing that could have happened is when I got out, my foot pulled the pedal back towards the interior and this pulled the plunger out.   
   It only had the spring, plunger and rubber plug to hold the plunger into the master cylinder.   
   Is there suppose to be something else to hold the plunger in place?   
   Thanks 
   _______________________________________________ 

tigers at autox.team.net 

Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html 
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive 

Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/jay.laifman@gmail.com 

         Joel,   Your master cylinder was apparently assembled without the circlip.  See #2 in the attached from the workshop manual.   
     Will - 382001570 
Tigers at embarqmail.com 

   On Mon, Feb 14, 2022 at 7:28 PM Joel Martin via Tigers <tigers at autox.team.net> wrote: 

    1966 Tiger MK 1A   
   I had a little scare the other day backing out of the DMV parking lot.  No Brakes.  Discovered that the brake plunger had come out of the rubber sleeve going into the master cylinder.   
   The only thing that could have happened is when I got out, my foot pulled the pedal back towards the interior and this pulled the plunger out.   
   It only had the spring, plunger and rubber plug to hold the plunger into the master cylinder.   
   Is there suppose to be something else to hold the plunger in place?   
   Thanks 
   _______________________________________________ 

tigers at autox.team.net 

Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html 
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive 

Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/tigers@embarqmail.com 

   _______________________________________________ 
Tigers mailing list 
Tigers at autox.team.net 
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers 

Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html 
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive 

         <My_Brake_plunger.jpg>_______________________________________________ 

tigers at autox.team.net 

Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html 
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive 

Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/jay.laifman@gmail.com 

_______________________________________________ 

tigers at autox.team.net 

Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html 
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive 

Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/garywinblad@comcast.net 

 _______________________________________________
Tigers mailing list
Tigers at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers

Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive
  _______________________________________________

tigers at autox.team.net

Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive

Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/jay.laifman@gmail.com

_______________________________________________
Tigers mailing list
Tigers at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers

Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://autox.team.net/pipermail/tigers/attachments/20220220/15562178/attachment-0001.htm>