[Tigers] Front suspension

Fri Oct 1 11:38:52 MDT 2021

And if it hasn’t been said already, as I understand it, the times it causes the A arm mount pins to break is when someone is reversing at full lock.  So always avoid full lock on reverse.

> On Oct 1, 2021, at 8:54 AM, Michael Wood via Tigers <tigers at autox.team.net> wrote:
> 
> Gary, I think you nailed it, reverse Ackermann leads to some funky slip angles and strangely heavy steering, particularly felt at low speeds...the front tires are literally fighting each other. The fact we all typically add wider wheels makes the steering even heavier (both contact patch to move around and scrub radius). Finally, maxing out caster with wedges (which I do) makes it even worse! 
> The longer MG steering arms help, I've found on cars I've driven so equipped, but I haven't bothered to do on my car. Toe out changes the slip angle and also helps get the car to turn in, but I only go to toe out (1/4") when autocrossing, as toe out also is a great way to kill tires. Besides the poor camber curve, Ackerman is another reason why I run as much negative camber as possible...if the outside wheel isn't technically aligned to the turn radius correctly, at least I can maximize the unaligned contact patch in roll lol. Funny thing, even the real experts I've read can't seem to agree on "Ackermann", because there are so many other variables.
> I don't know, outside of a custom solution like Dale's or Hokanson's front ends, of a real fix. I've just learned to live with heavy steering, but if it really is a problem, going to stock width wheels and smaller section width tires really makes a difference. The electric power steering solution has gotten to be a pretty easy deal, but that obviously does nothing to address the underlying geometry issues.
> Mike
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: GARY WINBLAD <garywinblad at comcast.net>
> To: Lance Beauchamp <blance598 at gmail.com>; Tiger List <tigers at autox.team.net>
> Sent: Fri, Oct 1, 2021 7:42 am
> Subject: Re: [Tigers] Front suspension
> 
> Lance,
>  There are a couple more expensive solutions that might be still available.
> Dale did design and make an entire front crossmember/suspension.  It fixed the geometry but was about $5K
> last I heard, and he might have stopped making them.
> People (mostly in EU) have put in electric power steering.  It mounts up under the dash so it all looks stock,
> would be great in a parking lot or tight course.  Others have put in conventional hydraulic power steering.
> Shelby had his guys put in a Miata power rack in his wife's Tiger for instance.
> Gary
> 
>> On 10/01/2021 9:36 AM Lance Beauchamp <blance598 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> So it is what it is, end of story, thank very much for a really good explanation,  still love the car. Beau 
>> 
>> On Thu, Sep 30, 2021, 10:13 PM GARY WINBLAD <garywinblad at comcast.net <mailto:garywinblad at comcast.net>> wrote: 
>> HI Lance,
>> Steering geometry is a real problem.  Shelby throwing the rack way out in front of the engine was a quick solution.
>> Rootes didn't want to change a Shelby design... so we suffer today.  Doane knew it was a problem but he thought
>> Rootes would build a new crossmember.
>> The problem is when you go around a corner, the inside wheel needs to run a smaller radius turn than the outside.
>> Toe in on turns or Ackerman geometry is what it is called.   The Tiger has reverse Ackerman, the inner wheel turns
>> a larger radius!  When I used to push my Tiger out to my slightly downhill driveway it was easier to turn the wheel
>> full lock than to reach down and pull the parking brake... what a great design Shelby!
>> On a tight autocross course or a parking lot this is really less than ideal...  MIKE analysis??
>> On a big course it might not make such a difference though Jim Adams said he had to "toss the Tiger like a sprint
>> car"  (keeping it jumping and sliding rather than be smooth.. I hear that as...).
>> 
>> Longer MGB steering arms and initial toe-out is the small solution Dale has...
>> You may notice, its hard to turn the wheel at slow speeds, especially with big sticky tires.
>> But once you go into a fairly tight turn, it becomes easier as both tires lose contact.. and the Tiger goes straight
>> off the corner...
>> 
>> Mike, do I have it anywhere correct?
>> Gary W.
>> 
>>> On 09/30/2021 9:55 PM Lance Beauchamp <blance598 at gmail.com <mailto:blance598 at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> You say you spend alot of time on suspension Gary, can you tell me how to make the Tiger easier to turn at lower speeds, like 15 mph or under. I always  blame the steering  geometry,  is it all that?  Beau 
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