From rfraser at bluefrog.com  Fri Oct  1 06:43:31 2021
From: rfraser at bluefrog.com (Ron Fraser)
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2021 08:43:31 -0400
Subject: [Tigers] under battery tray wood
Message-ID: <000d01d7b6c1$f20ed280$d62c7780$@bluefrog.com>

Just in from Buck Trippel ? the drawing #2231039 ? this is awesome ? please
note I spelled it correctly this time ? I was not in going to sleep mode
now.

 

Note ? this drawing is dated Jan 14, 1964               Model ? Alpine 260

Material ? ?? plywood

Finish Symbol 57 ? this is a wood preservative possibly Cuprinol

 

The mounting holes are on the centerline.

I?m not sure that will work with my off set mounting holes ? I will have to
experiment.

There is always the possibility that this drawing was updated.

 

Use your best judgment making and installing your new Battery Packers.

 

Thanks to all who contributed to this thread.

Please don?t hesitate to add additional information or pictures on this
subject.

We are all still learning.

 

Ron Fraser

 

 

 

 

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From garywinblad at comcast.net  Fri Oct  1 08:41:22 2021
From: garywinblad at comcast.net (GARY WINBLAD)
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2021 10:41:22 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Tigers] Front suspension
In-Reply-To: <CACQC2nWqdyxbpsJfZydbYAoqLunsbYiY+zCKRM6=27xY8fn_cQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACQC2nWdwBhLzzfu7LT8LisQv--5pgQnWWtgZET1A35Eh4EnaA@mail.gmail.com>
 <830812442.1004153.1633054404982@connect.xfinity.com>
 <CACQC2nWqdyxbpsJfZydbYAoqLunsbYiY+zCKRM6=27xY8fn_cQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <494261672.1023398.1633099282074@connect.xfinity.com>

Lance,
There are a couple more expensive solutions that might be still available.
Dale did design and make an entire front crossmember/suspension.  It fixed the geometry but was about $5K
last I heard, and he might have stopped making them.
People (mostly in EU) have put in electric power steering.  It mounts up under the dash so it all looks stock,
would be great in a parking lot or tight course.  Others have put in conventional hydraulic power steering.
Shelby had his guys put in a Miata power rack in his wife's Tiger for instance.
Gary


>     On 10/01/2021 9:36 AM Lance Beauchamp <blance598 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> 
>     So it is what it is, end of story, thank very much for a really good explanation,  still love the car. Beau 
> 
>     On Thu, Sep 30, 2021, 10:13 PM GARY WINBLAD <garywinblad at comcast.net mailto:garywinblad at comcast.net > wrote:
> 
>         > >         HI Lance,
> >         Steering geometry is a real problem.  Shelby throwing the rack way out in front of the engine was a quick solution.
> >         Rootes didn't want to change a Shelby design... so we suffer today.  Doane knew it was a problem but he thought
> >         Rootes would build a new crossmember.
> >         The problem is when you go around a corner, the inside wheel needs to run a smaller radius turn than the outside.
> >         Toe in on turns or Ackerman geometry is what it is called.   The Tiger has reverse Ackerman, the inner wheel turns
> >         a larger radius!  When I used to push my Tiger out to my slightly downhill driveway it was easier to turn the wheel
> >         full lock than to reach down and pull the parking brake... what a great design Shelby!
> >         On a tight autocross course or a parking lot this is really less than ideal...  MIKE analysis??
> >         On a big course it might not make such a difference though Jim Adams said he had to "toss the Tiger like a sprint
> >         car"  (keeping it jumping and sliding rather than be smooth.. I hear that as...).
> > 
> >         Longer MGB steering arms and initial toe-out is the small solution Dale has...
> >         You may notice, its hard to turn the wheel at slow speeds, especially with big sticky tires.
> >         But once you go into a fairly tight turn, it becomes easier as both tires lose contact.. and the Tiger goes straight
> >         off the corner...
> > 
> >         Mike, do I have it anywhere correct?
> >         Gary W.
> > 
> > 
> >             > > >             On 09/30/2021 9:55 PM Lance Beauchamp <blance598 at gmail.com mailto:blance598 at gmail.com > wrote:
> > > 
> > > 
> > >             You say you spend alot of time on suspension Gary, can you tell me how to make the Tiger easier to turn at lower speeds, like 15 mph or under. I always  blame the steering  geometry,  is it all that?  Beau 
> > > 
> > >         > > 
> >     > 
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From mwood24020 at aol.com  Fri Oct  1 09:54:35 2021
From: mwood24020 at aol.com (Michael Wood)
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2021 15:54:35 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Tigers] Front suspension
In-Reply-To: <494261672.1023398.1633099282074@connect.xfinity.com>
References: <CACQC2nWdwBhLzzfu7LT8LisQv--5pgQnWWtgZET1A35Eh4EnaA@mail.gmail.com>
 <830812442.1004153.1633054404982@connect.xfinity.com>
 <CACQC2nWqdyxbpsJfZydbYAoqLunsbYiY+zCKRM6=27xY8fn_cQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <494261672.1023398.1633099282074@connect.xfinity.com>
Message-ID: <1408585327.599277.1633103675054@mail.yahoo.com>

Gary, I think you nailed it, reverse Ackermann leads to some funky slip angles and strangely heavy steering, particularly felt at low speeds...the front tires are literally fighting each other. The fact we all typically add wider wheels makes the steering even heavier (both contact patch to move around and scrub radius). Finally, maxing out caster with wedges (which I do) makes it even worse!?The longer MG steering arms help, I've found on cars I've driven so equipped, but I haven't bothered to do on my car. Toe out changes the slip angle and also helps get the car to turn in, but I only go to toe out (1/4") when autocrossing, as toe out also is a great way to kill tires. Besides the poor camber curve, Ackerman is another reason why I run as much negative camber as possible...if the outside wheel isn't technically aligned to the turn radius correctly, at least I can maximize the unaligned contact patch in roll lol. Funny thing, even the real experts I've read can't seem to agree on "Ackermann", because there are so many other variables.I don't know, outside of a custom solution like Dale's or Hokanson's front ends, of a real fix. I've just learned to live with heavy steering, but if it really is a problem, going to stock width wheels and smaller section width tires really makes a difference. The electric power steering solution has gotten to be a pretty easy?deal, but that obviously does nothing to address the underlying geometry issues.Mike


-----Original Message-----
From: GARY WINBLAD <garywinblad at comcast.net>
To: Lance Beauchamp <blance598 at gmail.com>; Tiger List <tigers at autox.team.net>
Sent: Fri, Oct 1, 2021 7:42 am
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Front suspension

   Lance,   ?There are a couple more expensive solutions that might be still available.   Dale did design and make an entire front crossmember/suspension.? It fixed the geometry but was about $5K   last I heard, and he might have stopped making them.   People (mostly in EU) have put in electric power steering.? It mounts up under the dash so it all looks stock,   would be great in a parking lot or tight course.? Others have put in conventional hydraulic power steering.   Shelby had his guys put in a Miata power rack in his wife's Tiger for instance.   Gary   
  
  On 10/01/2021 9:36 AM Lance Beauchamp <blance598 at gmail.com> wrote:   
   
   So it is what it is, end of story, thank very much for a really good explanation,? still love the car. Beau?  
   On Thu, Sep 30, 2021, 10:13 PM GARY WINBLAD <garywinblad at comcast.net> wrote: 
  
    HI Lance,   Steering geometry is a real problem.? Shelby throwing the rack way out in front of the engine was a quick solution.   Rootes didn't want to change a Shelby design... so we suffer today.? Doane knew it was a problem but he thought   Rootes would build a new crossmember.   The problem is when you go around a corner, the inside wheel needs to run a smaller radius turn than the outside.   Toe in on turns or Ackerman geometry is what it is called.? ?The Tiger has reverse Ackerman, the inner wheel turns   a larger radius!? When I used to push my Tiger out to my slightly downhill driveway it was easier to turn the wheel   full lock than to reach down and pull the parking brake... what a great design Shelby!   On a tight autocross course or a parking lot this is really less than ideal...? MIKE analysis??   On a big course it might not make such a difference though Jim Adams said he had to "toss the Tiger like a sprint   car"? (keeping it jumping and sliding rather than be smooth.. I hear that as...).   
   Longer MGB steering arms and initial toe-out is the small solution Dale has...   You may notice, its hard to turn the wheel at slow speeds, especially with big sticky tires.   But once you go into a fairly tight turn, it becomes easier as both tires lose contact.. and the Tiger goes straight   off the corner...   
   Mike, do I have it anywhere correct?   Gary W.   
  
  On 09/30/2021 9:55 PM Lance Beauchamp <blance598 at gmail.com> wrote:   
   
   You say you spend alot of time on suspension Gary, can you tell me how to make the Tiger easier to turn at lower speeds, like 15 mph or under. I always? blame the steering? geometry,? is it all that?? Beau?  
  
  
 _______________________________________________

tigers at autox.team.net

Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive

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From garywinblad at comcast.net  Fri Oct  1 10:23:20 2021
From: garywinblad at comcast.net (GARY WINBLAD)
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2021 12:23:20 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Tigers] Front suspension
In-Reply-To: <1408585327.599277.1633103675054@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <CACQC2nWdwBhLzzfu7LT8LisQv--5pgQnWWtgZET1A35Eh4EnaA@mail.gmail.com>
 <830812442.1004153.1633054404982@connect.xfinity.com>
 <CACQC2nWqdyxbpsJfZydbYAoqLunsbYiY+zCKRM6=27xY8fn_cQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <494261672.1023398.1633099282074@connect.xfinity.com>
 <1408585327.599277.1633103675054@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1394424770.65617.1633105421591@connect.xfinity.com>

Mike,
Thanks for your expert analysis!
Yes, I never did find what Ackerman is best either..  I heard Doane speak and he said the reverse Ackerman is actually an advantage when you are
countersteering (what I think he meant).  I wrote a program to figure out how it works on the Tiger.  Turns out Ackerman is not really that bad until
you get to pretty extreme steering angles, so on a big track it isn't really that bad.  And with initial toe-out dialed in it might not be that bad on a really
tight course.  And because of the fulcrum pin issue, I NEVER go full lock anymore, even parking.
Yeah camber... why did the lowered a-arm trick seem to work back in the day but isn't used anymore?  The GT-350s I have looked at still have it.
I know it was bad for braking but so is initial negative camber?
Heavy steering, why I left my big stock steering wheel.
Gary


>     On 10/01/2021 11:54 AM Michael Wood <mwood24020 at aol.com> wrote:
> 
> 
>     Gary, I think you nailed it, reverse Ackermann leads to some funky slip angles and strangely heavy steering, particularly felt at low speeds...the front tires are literally fighting each other. The fact we all typically add wider wheels makes the steering even heavier (both contact patch to move around and scrub radius). Finally, maxing out caster with wedges (which I do) makes it even worse! 
>     The longer MG steering arms help, I've found on cars I've driven so equipped, but I haven't bothered to do on my car. Toe out changes the slip angle and also helps get the car to turn in, but I only go to toe out (1/4") when autocrossing, as toe out also is a great way to kill tires. Besides the poor camber curve, Ackerman is another reason why I run as much negative camber as possible...if the outside wheel isn't technically aligned to the turn radius correctly, at least I can maximize the unaligned contact patch in roll lol. Funny thing, even the real experts I've read can't seem to agree on "Ackermann", because there are so many other variables.
>     I don't know, outside of a custom solution like Dale's or Hokanson's front ends, of a real fix. I've just learned to live with heavy steering, but if it really is a problem, going to stock width wheels and smaller section width tires really makes a difference. The electric power steering solution has gotten to be a pretty easy deal, but that obviously does nothing to address the underlying geometry issues.
>     Mike
> 
> 
>     -----Original Message-----
>     From: GARY WINBLAD <garywinblad at comcast.net>
>     To: Lance Beauchamp <blance598 at gmail.com>; Tiger List <tigers at autox.team.net>
>     Sent: Fri, Oct 1, 2021 7:42 am
>     Subject: Re: [Tigers] Front suspension
> 
>     Lance,
>      There are a couple more expensive solutions that might be still available.
>     Dale did design and make an entire front crossmember/suspension.  It fixed the geometry but was about $5K
>     last I heard, and he might have stopped making them.
>     People (mostly in EU) have put in electric power steering.  It mounts up under the dash so it all looks stock,
>     would be great in a parking lot or tight course.  Others have put in conventional hydraulic power steering.
>     Shelby had his guys put in a Miata power rack in his wife's Tiger for instance.
>     Gary
> 
> 
>         > >         On 10/01/2021 9:36 AM Lance Beauchamp <blance598 at gmail.com> wrote:
> > 
> > 
> >         So it is what it is, end of story, thank very much for a really good explanation,  still love the car. Beau 
> > 
> >         On Thu, Sep 30, 2021, 10:13 PM GARY WINBLAD <garywinblad at comcast.net mailto:garywinblad at comcast.net > wrote:
> > 
> >             > > >             HI Lance,
> > >             Steering geometry is a real problem.  Shelby throwing the rack way out in front of the engine was a quick solution.
> > >             Rootes didn't want to change a Shelby design... so we suffer today.  Doane knew it was a problem but he thought
> > >             Rootes would build a new crossmember.
> > >             The problem is when you go around a corner, the inside wheel needs to run a smaller radius turn than the outside.
> > >             Toe in on turns or Ackerman geometry is what it is called.   The Tiger has reverse Ackerman, the inner wheel turns
> > >             a larger radius!  When I used to push my Tiger out to my slightly downhill driveway it was easier to turn the wheel
> > >             full lock than to reach down and pull the parking brake... what a great design Shelby!
> > >             On a tight autocross course or a parking lot this is really less than ideal...  MIKE analysis??
> > >             On a big course it might not make such a difference though Jim Adams said he had to "toss the Tiger like a sprint
> > >             car"  (keeping it jumping and sliding rather than be smooth.. I hear that as...).
> > > 
> > >             Longer MGB steering arms and initial toe-out is the small solution Dale has...
> > >             You may notice, its hard to turn the wheel at slow speeds, especially with big sticky tires.
> > >             But once you go into a fairly tight turn, it becomes easier as both tires lose contact.. and the Tiger goes straight
> > >             off the corner...
> > > 
> > >             Mike, do I have it anywhere correct?
> > >             Gary W.
> > > 
> > > 
> > >                 > > > >                 On 09/30/2021 9:55 PM Lance Beauchamp <blance598 at gmail.com mailto:blance598 at gmail.com > wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > >                 You say you spend alot of time on suspension Gary, can you tell me how to make the Tiger easier to turn at lower speeds, like 15 mph or under. I always  blame the steering  geometry,  is it all that?  Beau 
> > > > 
> > > >             > > > 
> > >         > > 
> >     >     _______________________________________________
> 
>     tigers at autox.team.net mailto:tigers at autox.team.net
> 
>     Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>     Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive
> 
>     Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/mwood24020 at aol.com
> 
> 
> 
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From mwood24020 at aol.com  Fri Oct  1 10:37:07 2021
From: mwood24020 at aol.com (Michael Wood)
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2021 16:37:07 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Tigers] Front suspension
In-Reply-To: <1394424770.65617.1633105421591@connect.xfinity.com>
References: <CACQC2nWdwBhLzzfu7LT8LisQv--5pgQnWWtgZET1A35Eh4EnaA@mail.gmail.com>
 <830812442.1004153.1633054404982@connect.xfinity.com>
 <CACQC2nWqdyxbpsJfZydbYAoqLunsbYiY+zCKRM6=27xY8fn_cQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <494261672.1023398.1633099282074@connect.xfinity.com>
 <1408585327.599277.1633103675054@mail.yahoo.com>
 <1394424770.65617.1633105421591@connect.xfinity.com>
Message-ID: <1577997350.604633.1633106227483@mail.yahoo.com>

I'm far from expert...maybe a layman open to experimenting lol?
I think a lot of guys building Mustangs, Camaros etc still do the Shelby drop (relocating the upper control arm downwards). But, I don't know how it would work on a Tiger, as we run into control arm clearance to unibody issues pretty quickly at the fastener to the rear (if you follow what I'm saying) when shimming for negative camber. That clearance becomes even less when you start looking at dropping the physical location of the UCA. So, the question would be whether the negative camber gained in drop would offset the loss of ability to shim, I guess. But, yeah, the camber curve should improve.?
Wonder if anyone has done it?
Mike

-----Original Message-----
From: GARY WINBLAD <garywinblad at comcast.net>
To: Michael Wood <mwood24020 at aol.com>; blance598 at gmail.com <blance598 at gmail.com>; tigers at autox.team.net <tigers at autox.team.net>
Sent: Fri, Oct 1, 2021 9:23 am
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Front suspension

  Mike,   Thanks for your expert analysis!   Yes, I never did find what Ackerman is best either..? I heard Doane speak and he said the reverse Ackerman is actually an advantage when you are   countersteering (what I think he meant).? I wrote a program to figure out how it works on the Tiger.? Turns out Ackerman is not really that bad until   you get to pretty extreme steering angles, so on a big track it isn't really that bad.? And with initial toe-out dialed in it might not be that bad on a really   tight course.? And because of the fulcrum pin issue, I NEVER go full lock anymore, even parking.   Yeah camber... why did the lowered a-arm trick seem to work back in the day but isn't used anymore?? The GT-350s I have looked at still have it.   I know it was bad for braking but so is initial negative camber?   Heavy steering, why I left my big stock steering wheel.   Gary   
  
  On 10/01/2021 11:54 AM Michael Wood <mwood24020 at aol.com> wrote:   
   
    Gary, I think you nailed it, reverse Ackermann leads to some funky slip angles and strangely heavy steering, particularly felt at low speeds...the front tires are literally fighting each other. The fact we all typically add wider wheels makes the steering even heavier (both contact patch to move around and scrub radius). Finally, maxing out caster with wedges (which I do) makes it even worse!?   The longer MG steering arms help, I've found on cars I've driven so equipped, but I haven't bothered to do on my car. Toe out changes the slip angle and also helps get the car to turn in, but I only go to toe out (1/4") when autocrossing, as toe out also is a great way to kill tires. Besides the poor camber curve, Ackerman is another reason why I run as much negative camber as possible...if the outside wheel isn't technically aligned to the turn radius correctly, at least I can maximize the unaligned contact patch in roll lol. Funny thing, even the real experts I've read can't seem to agree on "Ackermann", because there are so many other variables.   I don't know, outside of a custom solution like Dale's or Hokanson's front ends, of a real fix. I've just learned to live with heavy steering, but if it really is a problem, going to stock width wheels and smaller section width tires really makes a difference. The electric power steering solution has gotten to be a pretty easy?deal, but that obviously does nothing to address the underlying geometry issues.   Mike 
 
 
-----Original Message----- 
From: GARY WINBLAD <garywinblad at comcast.net> 
To: Lance Beauchamp <blance598 at gmail.com>; Tiger List <tigers at autox.team.net> 
Sent: Fri, Oct 1, 2021 7:42 am 
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Front suspension 
 
     Lance,   ?There are a couple more expensive solutions that might be still available.   Dale did design and make an entire front crossmember/suspension.? It fixed the geometry but was about $5K   last I heard, and he might have stopped making them.   People (mostly in EU) have put in electric power steering.? It mounts up under the dash so it all looks stock,   would be great in a parking lot or tight course.? Others have put in conventional hydraulic power steering.   Shelby had his guys put in a Miata power rack in his wife's Tiger for instance.   Gary   
  
  On 10/01/2021 9:36 AM Lance Beauchamp <blance598 at gmail.com> wrote:   
   
   So it is what it is, end of story, thank very much for a really good explanation,? still love the car. Beau?  
   On Thu, Sep 30, 2021, 10:13 PM GARY WINBLAD <garywinblad at comcast.net> wrote: 
  
    HI Lance,   Steering geometry is a real problem.? Shelby throwing the rack way out in front of the engine was a quick solution.   Rootes didn't want to change a Shelby design... so we suffer today.? Doane knew it was a problem but he thought   Rootes would build a new crossmember.   The problem is when you go around a corner, the inside wheel needs to run a smaller radius turn than the outside.   Toe in on turns or Ackerman geometry is what it is called.? ?The Tiger has reverse Ackerman, the inner wheel turns   a larger radius!? When I used to push my Tiger out to my slightly downhill driveway it was easier to turn the wheel   full lock than to reach down and pull the parking brake... what a great design Shelby!   On a tight autocross course or a parking lot this is really less than ideal...? MIKE analysis??   On a big course it might not make such a difference though Jim Adams said he had to "toss the Tiger like a sprint   car"? (keeping it jumping and sliding rather than be smooth.. I hear that as...).   
   Longer MGB steering arms and initial toe-out is the small solution Dale has...   You may notice, its hard to turn the wheel at slow speeds, especially with big sticky tires.   But once you go into a fairly tight turn, it becomes easier as both tires lose contact.. and the Tiger goes straight   off the corner...   
   Mike, do I have it anywhere correct?   Gary W.   
  
  On 09/30/2021 9:55 PM Lance Beauchamp <blance598 at gmail.com> wrote:   
   
   You say you spend alot of time on suspension Gary, can you tell me how to make the Tiger easier to turn at lower speeds, like 15 mph or under. I always? blame the steering? geometry,? is it all that?? Beau?  
  
  
  _______________________________________________ 
 
tigers at autox.team.net 
 
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html 
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive 
 
Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/mwood24020 at aol.com 
 
 
  
 
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From jim at island.net  Fri Oct  1 11:22:09 2021
From: jim at island.net (jim)
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2021 10:22:09 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] Front suspension
In-Reply-To: <1577997350.604633.1633106227483@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <CACQC2nWdwBhLzzfu7LT8LisQv--5pgQnWWtgZET1A35Eh4EnaA@mail.gmail.com>
 <830812442.1004153.1633054404982@connect.xfinity.com>
 <CACQC2nWqdyxbpsJfZydbYAoqLunsbYiY+zCKRM6=27xY8fn_cQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <494261672.1023398.1633099282074@connect.xfinity.com>
 <1408585327.599277.1633103675054@mail.yahoo.com>
 <1394424770.65617.1633105421591@connect.xfinity.com>
 <1577997350.604633.1633106227483@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <043c01d7b6e8$dddc28e0$99947aa0$@island.net>

I?m definitely a layman but like to tweak things !!!

 

My car has the 1976 suspension tuning added holes to fully relocate the upper A-arms and I?ve kept that setup. Other than minimal shimming for castor the camber will NOT go to zero ( or positive) and I have about 1 degree negative ? I have a unique brake setup with 11? Porsche rotors on adapters and Wilwood Dynalite  calipers behind 14? 3 piece wheels. I changed the steering arms to the MGB one when I installed the Mazda power steering. The mounting holes for the MGB arms are parallel  so require a spacer to mount them in stock location. I saw a potential ( because my Wilwood brake mount ) to move the steering arm outboard but that would also require the caliper and rotor to move the same amount. I managed to move it all outboard ?? and with the slight offset of the MGB arm, it?s almost ?? gain in reality. I bolted the wheels back on and it ?seemed? to spin freely so I took it for a drive and heard a slight ?ticking? in the wheels. It turned out that both wheels had a couple of stick on wheel weights on the inside and the calipers were just grazing the as they are about 1/8? thick. A couple minutes with the grinder shaved off enough and its never been a problem since!  I did the math back then and can?t remember exactly but it certainly ( on paper ) improved the ackerman

Maybe I shouldn?t have cancelled my ?hokanson? front end order years ago but what would I do with my free time ??  lol!

 

Jim

B382000446

 

From: Tigers <tigers-bounces at autox.team.net> On Behalf Of Michael Wood via Tigers
Sent: Friday, October 01, 2021 9:37 AM
To: garywinblad at comcast.net; blance598 at gmail.com; tigers at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Front suspension

 

I'm far from expert...maybe a layman open to experimenting lol 

 

I think a lot of guys building Mustangs, Camaros etc still do the Shelby drop (relocating the upper control arm downwards). But, I don't know how it would work on a Tiger, as we run into control arm clearance to unibody issues pretty quickly at the fastener to the rear (if you follow what I'm saying) when shimming for negative camber. That clearance becomes even less when you start looking at dropping the physical location of the UCA. So, the question would be whether the negative camber gained in drop would offset the loss of ability to shim, I guess. But, yeah, the camber curve should improve. 

 

Wonder if anyone has done it?

 

Mike



-----Original Message-----
From: GARY WINBLAD < <mailto:garywinblad at comcast.net> garywinblad at comcast.net>
To: Michael Wood < <mailto:mwood24020 at aol.com> mwood24020 at aol.com>;  <mailto:blance598 at gmail.com> blance598 at gmail.com < <mailto:blance598 at gmail.com> blance598 at gmail.com>;  <mailto:tigers at autox.team.net> tigers at autox.team.net < <mailto:tigers at autox.team.net> tigers at autox.team.net>
Sent: Fri, Oct 1, 2021 9:23 am
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Front suspension

Mike, 

Thanks for your expert analysis! 

Yes, I never did find what Ackerman is best either..  I heard Doane speak and he said the reverse Ackerman is actually an advantage when you are 

countersteering (what I think he meant).  I wrote a program to figure out how it works on the Tiger.  Turns out Ackerman is not really that bad until 

you get to pretty extreme steering angles, so on a big track it isn't really that bad.  And with initial toe-out dialed in it might not be that bad on a really 

tight course.  And because of the fulcrum pin issue, I NEVER go full lock anymore, even parking. 

Yeah camber... why did the lowered a-arm trick seem to work back in the day but isn't used anymore?  The GT-350s I have looked at still have it. 

I know it was bad for braking but so is initial negative camber? 

Heavy steering, why I left my big stock steering wheel. 

Gary 

 

On 10/01/2021 11:54 AM Michael Wood < <mailto:mwood24020 at aol.com> mwood24020 at aol.com> wrote: 

 

 

Gary, I think you nailed it, reverse Ackermann leads to some funky slip angles and strangely heavy steering, particularly felt at low speeds...the front tires are literally fighting each other. The fact we all typically add wider wheels makes the steering even heavier (both contact patch to move around and scrub radius). Finally, maxing out caster with wedges (which I do) makes it even worse!  

The longer MG steering arms help, I've found on cars I've driven so equipped, but I haven't bothered to do on my car. Toe out changes the slip angle and also helps get the car to turn in, but I only go to toe out (1/4") when autocrossing, as toe out also is a great way to kill tires. Besides the poor camber curve, Ackerman is another reason why I run as much negative camber as possible...if the outside wheel isn't technically aligned to the turn radius correctly, at least I can maximize the unaligned contact patch in roll lol. Funny thing, even the real experts I've read can't seem to agree on "Ackermann", because there are so many other variables. 

I don't know, outside of a custom solution like Dale's or Hokanson's front ends, of a real fix. I've just learned to live with heavy steering, but if it really is a problem, going to stock width wheels and smaller section width tires really makes a difference. The electric power steering solution has gotten to be a pretty easy deal, but that obviously does nothing to address the underlying geometry issues. 

Mike 


-----Original Message----- 
From: GARY WINBLAD < <mailto:garywinblad at comcast.net> garywinblad at comcast.net> 
To: Lance Beauchamp < <mailto:blance598 at gmail.com> blance598 at gmail.com>; Tiger List < <mailto:tigers at autox.team.net> tigers at autox.team.net> 
Sent: Fri, Oct 1, 2021 7:42 am 
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Front suspension 

Lance, 

 There are a couple more expensive solutions that might be still available. 

Dale did design and make an entire front crossmember/suspension.  It fixed the geometry but was about $5K 

last I heard, and he might have stopped making them. 

People (mostly in EU) have put in electric power steering.  It mounts up under the dash so it all looks stock, 

would be great in a parking lot or tight course.  Others have put in conventional hydraulic power steering. 

Shelby had his guys put in a Miata power rack in his wife's Tiger for instance. 

Gary 

 

On 10/01/2021 9:36 AM Lance Beauchamp < <mailto:blance598 at gmail.com> blance598 at gmail.com> wrote: 

 

 

So it is what it is, end of story, thank very much for a really good explanation,  still love the car. Beau  

 

On Thu, Sep 30, 2021, 10:13 PM GARY WINBLAD < <mailto:garywinblad at comcast.net> garywinblad at comcast.net> wrote: 

HI Lance, 

Steering geometry is a real problem.  Shelby throwing the rack way out in front of the engine was a quick solution. 

Rootes didn't want to change a Shelby design... so we suffer today.  Doane knew it was a problem but he thought 

Rootes would build a new crossmember. 

The problem is when you go around a corner, the inside wheel needs to run a smaller radius turn than the outside. 

Toe in on turns or Ackerman geometry is what it is called.   The Tiger has reverse Ackerman, the inner wheel turns 

a larger radius!  When I used to push my Tiger out to my slightly downhill driveway it was easier to turn the wheel 

full lock than to reach down and pull the parking brake... what a great design Shelby! 

On a tight autocross course or a parking lot this is really less than ideal...  MIKE analysis?? 

On a big course it might not make such a difference though Jim Adams said he had to "toss the Tiger like a sprint 

car"  (keeping it jumping and sliding rather than be smooth.. I hear that as...). 

 

Longer MGB steering arms and initial toe-out is the small solution Dale has... 

You may notice, its hard to turn the wheel at slow speeds, especially with big sticky tires. 

But once you go into a fairly tight turn, it becomes easier as both tires lose contact.. and the Tiger goes straight 

off the corner... 

 

Mike, do I have it anywhere correct? 

Gary W. 

 

On 09/30/2021 9:55 PM Lance Beauchamp < <mailto:blance598 at gmail.com> blance598 at gmail.com> wrote: 

 

 

You say you spend alot of time on suspension Gary, can you tell me how to make the Tiger easier to turn at lower speeds, like 15 mph or under. I always  blame the steering  geometry,  is it all that?  Beau  

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From mwood24020 at aol.com  Fri Oct  1 11:36:00 2021
From: mwood24020 at aol.com (Michael Wood)
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2021 17:36:00 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Tigers] Front suspension
In-Reply-To: <043c01d7b6e8$dddc28e0$99947aa0$@island.net>
References: <CACQC2nWdwBhLzzfu7LT8LisQv--5pgQnWWtgZET1A35Eh4EnaA@mail.gmail.com>
 <830812442.1004153.1633054404982@connect.xfinity.com>
 <CACQC2nWqdyxbpsJfZydbYAoqLunsbYiY+zCKRM6=27xY8fn_cQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <494261672.1023398.1633099282074@connect.xfinity.com>
 <1408585327.599277.1633103675054@mail.yahoo.com>
 <1394424770.65617.1633105421591@connect.xfinity.com>
 <1577997350.604633.1633106227483@mail.yahoo.com>
 <043c01d7b6e8$dddc28e0$99947aa0$@island.net>
Message-ID: <594713216.520074.1633109760455@mail.yahoo.com>

Very cool, Jim. Thanks for sharing the details, particularly the math around camber with the change in UCA angle :)

-----Original Message-----
From: jim <jim at island.net>
To: 'Michael Wood' <mwood24020 at aol.com>; garywinblad at comcast.net; blance598 at gmail.com; tigers at autox.team.net
Sent: Fri, Oct 1, 2021 10:22 am
Subject: RE: [Tigers] Front suspension

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I?m definitely a layman but like to tweak things !!!

 ?

My car has the 1976 suspension tuning added holes to fully relocate the upper A-arms and I?ve kept that setup. Other than minimal shimming for castor the camber will NOT go to zero ( or positive) and I have about 1 degree negative ? I have a unique brake setup with 11? Porsche rotors on adapters and Wilwood Dynalite ?calipers behind 14? 3 piece wheels. I changed the steering arms to the MGB one when I installed the Mazda power steering. The mounting holes for the MGB arms are parallel ?so require a spacer to mount them in stock location. I saw a potential ( because my Wilwood brake mount ) to move the steering arm outboard but that would also require the caliper and rotor to move the same amount. I managed to move it all outboard ?? and with the slight offset of the MGB arm, it?s almost ?? gain in reality. I bolted the wheels back on and it ?seemed? to spin freely so I took it for a drive and heard a slight ?ticking? in the wheels. It turned out that both wheels had a couple of stick on wheel weights on the inside and the calipers were just grazing the as they are about 1/8? thick. A couple minutes with the grinder shaved off enough and its never been a problem since!? I did the math back then and can?t remember exactly but it certainly ( on paper ) improved the ackerman

Maybe I shouldn?t have cancelled my ?hokanson? front end order years ago but what would I do with my free time ??? lol!

 ?

Jim

B382000446

 ?

From: Tigers <tigers-bounces at autox.team.net> On Behalf Of Michael Wood via Tigers
Sent: Friday, October 01, 2021 9:37 AM
To: garywinblad at comcast.net; blance598 at gmail.com; tigers at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Front suspension

 ?

I'm far from expert...maybe a layman open to experimenting lol?

 ?

I think a lot of guys building Mustangs, Camaros etc still do the Shelby drop (relocating the upper control arm downwards). But, I don't know how it would work on a Tiger, as we run into control arm clearance to unibody issues pretty quickly at the fastener to the rear (if you follow what I'm saying) when shimming for negative camber. That clearance becomes even less when you start looking at dropping the physical location of the UCA. So, the question would be whether the negative camber gained in drop would offset the loss of ability to shim, I guess. But, yeah, the camber curve should improve.?

 ?

Wonder if anyone has done it?

 ?

Mike



-----Original Message-----
From: GARY WINBLAD <garywinblad at comcast.net>
To: Michael Wood <mwood24020 at aol.com>; blance598 at gmail.com <blance598 at gmail.com>; tigers at autox.team.net <tigers at autox.team.net>
Sent: Fri, Oct 1, 2021 9:23 am
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Front suspension

Mike, 

Thanks for your expert analysis! 

Yes, I never did find what Ackerman is best either..? I heard Doane speak and he said the reverse Ackerman is actually an advantage when you are 

countersteering (what I think he meant).? I wrote a program to figure out how it works on the Tiger.? Turns out Ackerman is not really that bad until 

you get to pretty extreme steering angles, so on a big track it isn't really that bad.? And with initial toe-out dialed in it might not be that bad on a really 

tight course.? And because of the fulcrum pin issue, I NEVER go full lock anymore, even parking. 

Yeah camber... why did the lowered a-arm trick seem to work back in the day but isn't used anymore?? The GT-350s I have looked at still have it. 

I know it was bad for braking but so is initial negative camber? 

Heavy steering, why I left my big stock steering wheel. 

Gary 

 ?


On 10/01/2021 11:54 AM Michael Wood <mwood24020 at aol.com> wrote: 

 ?

 ?

Gary, I think you nailed it, reverse Ackermann leads to some funky slip angles and strangely heavy steering, particularly felt at low speeds...the front tires are literally fighting each other. The fact we all typically add wider wheels makes the steering even heavier (both contact patch to move around and scrub radius). Finally, maxing out caster with wedges (which I do) makes it even worse!? 

The longer MG steering arms help, I've found on cars I've driven so equipped, but I haven't bothered to do on my car. Toe out changes the slip angle and also helps get the car to turn in, but I only go to toe out (1/4") when autocrossing, as toe out also is a great way to kill tires. Besides the poor camber curve, Ackerman is another reason why I run as much negative camber as possible...if the outside wheel isn't technically aligned to the turn radius correctly, at least I can maximize the unaligned contact patch in roll lol. Funny thing, even the real experts I've read can't seem to agree on "Ackermann", because there are so many other variables. 

I don't know, outside of a custom solution like Dale's or Hokanson's front ends, of a real fix. I've just learned to live with heavy steering, but if it really is a problem, going to stock width wheels and smaller section width tires really makes a difference. The electric power steering solution has gotten to be a pretty easy?deal, but that obviously does nothing to address the underlying geometry issues. 

Mike 


-----Original Message----- 
From: GARY WINBLAD <garywinblad at comcast.net> 
To: Lance Beauchamp <blance598 at gmail.com>; Tiger List <tigers at autox.team.net> 
Sent: Fri, Oct 1, 2021 7:42 am 
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Front suspension 

Lance, 

?There are a couple more expensive solutions that might be still available. 

Dale did design and make an entire front crossmember/suspension.? It fixed the geometry but was about $5K 

last I heard, and he might have stopped making them. 

People (mostly in EU) have put in electric power steering.? It mounts up under the dash so it all looks stock, 

would be great in a parking lot or tight course.? Others have put in conventional hydraulic power steering. 

Shelby had his guys put in a Miata power rack in his wife's Tiger for instance. 

Gary 

 ?


On 10/01/2021 9:36 AM Lance Beauchamp <blance598 at gmail.com> wrote: 

 ?

 ?

So it is what it is, end of story, thank very much for a really good explanation,? still love the car. Beau? 

 ?

On Thu, Sep 30, 2021, 10:13 PM GARY WINBLAD <garywinblad at comcast.net> wrote: 


HI Lance, 

Steering geometry is a real problem.? Shelby throwing the rack way out in front of the engine was a quick solution. 

Rootes didn't want to change a Shelby design... so we suffer today.? Doane knew it was a problem but he thought 

Rootes would build a new crossmember. 

The problem is when you go around a corner, the inside wheel needs to run a smaller radius turn than the outside. 

Toe in on turns or Ackerman geometry is what it is called.? ?The Tiger has reverse Ackerman, the inner wheel turns 

a larger radius!? When I used to push my Tiger out to my slightly downhill driveway it was easier to turn the wheel 

full lock than to reach down and pull the parking brake... what a great design Shelby! 

On a tight autocross course or a parking lot this is really less than ideal...? MIKE analysis?? 

On a big course it might not make such a difference though Jim Adams said he had to "toss the Tiger like a sprint 

car"? (keeping it jumping and sliding rather than be smooth.. I hear that as...). 

 ?

Longer MGB steering arms and initial toe-out is the small solution Dale has... 

You may notice, its hard to turn the wheel at slow speeds, especially with big sticky tires. 

But once you go into a fairly tight turn, it becomes easier as both tires lose contact.. and the Tiger goes straight 

off the corner... 

 ?

Mike, do I have it anywhere correct? 

Gary W. 

 ?


On 09/30/2021 9:55 PM Lance Beauchamp <blance598 at gmail.com> wrote: 

 ?

 ?

You say you spend alot of time on suspension Gary, can you tell me how to make the Tiger easier to turn at lower speeds, like 15 mph or under. I always? blame the steering? geometry,? is it all that?? Beau? 




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From jay.laifman at gmail.com  Fri Oct  1 11:38:52 2021
From: jay.laifman at gmail.com (Jay)
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2021 10:38:52 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] Front suspension
In-Reply-To: <1408585327.599277.1633103675054@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <CACQC2nWdwBhLzzfu7LT8LisQv--5pgQnWWtgZET1A35Eh4EnaA@mail.gmail.com>
 <830812442.1004153.1633054404982@connect.xfinity.com>
 <CACQC2nWqdyxbpsJfZydbYAoqLunsbYiY+zCKRM6=27xY8fn_cQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <494261672.1023398.1633099282074@connect.xfinity.com>
 <1408585327.599277.1633103675054@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <70F663DA-F894-4585-902E-092000A46071@gmail.com>

And if it hasn?t been said already, as I understand it, the times it causes the A arm mount pins to break is when someone is reversing at full lock.  So always avoid full lock on reverse.

> On Oct 1, 2021, at 8:54 AM, Michael Wood via Tigers <tigers at autox.team.net> wrote:
> 
> Gary, I think you nailed it, reverse Ackermann leads to some funky slip angles and strangely heavy steering, particularly felt at low speeds...the front tires are literally fighting each other. The fact we all typically add wider wheels makes the steering even heavier (both contact patch to move around and scrub radius). Finally, maxing out caster with wedges (which I do) makes it even worse! 
> The longer MG steering arms help, I've found on cars I've driven so equipped, but I haven't bothered to do on my car. Toe out changes the slip angle and also helps get the car to turn in, but I only go to toe out (1/4") when autocrossing, as toe out also is a great way to kill tires. Besides the poor camber curve, Ackerman is another reason why I run as much negative camber as possible...if the outside wheel isn't technically aligned to the turn radius correctly, at least I can maximize the unaligned contact patch in roll lol. Funny thing, even the real experts I've read can't seem to agree on "Ackermann", because there are so many other variables.
> I don't know, outside of a custom solution like Dale's or Hokanson's front ends, of a real fix. I've just learned to live with heavy steering, but if it really is a problem, going to stock width wheels and smaller section width tires really makes a difference. The electric power steering solution has gotten to be a pretty easy deal, but that obviously does nothing to address the underlying geometry issues.
> Mike
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: GARY WINBLAD <garywinblad at comcast.net>
> To: Lance Beauchamp <blance598 at gmail.com>; Tiger List <tigers at autox.team.net>
> Sent: Fri, Oct 1, 2021 7:42 am
> Subject: Re: [Tigers] Front suspension
> 
> Lance,
>  There are a couple more expensive solutions that might be still available.
> Dale did design and make an entire front crossmember/suspension.  It fixed the geometry but was about $5K
> last I heard, and he might have stopped making them.
> People (mostly in EU) have put in electric power steering.  It mounts up under the dash so it all looks stock,
> would be great in a parking lot or tight course.  Others have put in conventional hydraulic power steering.
> Shelby had his guys put in a Miata power rack in his wife's Tiger for instance.
> Gary
> 
>> On 10/01/2021 9:36 AM Lance Beauchamp <blance598 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> So it is what it is, end of story, thank very much for a really good explanation,  still love the car. Beau 
>> 
>> On Thu, Sep 30, 2021, 10:13 PM GARY WINBLAD <garywinblad at comcast.net <mailto:garywinblad at comcast.net>> wrote: 
>> HI Lance,
>> Steering geometry is a real problem.  Shelby throwing the rack way out in front of the engine was a quick solution.
>> Rootes didn't want to change a Shelby design... so we suffer today.  Doane knew it was a problem but he thought
>> Rootes would build a new crossmember.
>> The problem is when you go around a corner, the inside wheel needs to run a smaller radius turn than the outside.
>> Toe in on turns or Ackerman geometry is what it is called.   The Tiger has reverse Ackerman, the inner wheel turns
>> a larger radius!  When I used to push my Tiger out to my slightly downhill driveway it was easier to turn the wheel
>> full lock than to reach down and pull the parking brake... what a great design Shelby!
>> On a tight autocross course or a parking lot this is really less than ideal...  MIKE analysis??
>> On a big course it might not make such a difference though Jim Adams said he had to "toss the Tiger like a sprint
>> car"  (keeping it jumping and sliding rather than be smooth.. I hear that as...).
>> 
>> Longer MGB steering arms and initial toe-out is the small solution Dale has...
>> You may notice, its hard to turn the wheel at slow speeds, especially with big sticky tires.
>> But once you go into a fairly tight turn, it becomes easier as both tires lose contact.. and the Tiger goes straight
>> off the corner...
>> 
>> Mike, do I have it anywhere correct?
>> Gary W.
>> 
>>> On 09/30/2021 9:55 PM Lance Beauchamp <blance598 at gmail.com <mailto:blance598 at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> You say you spend alot of time on suspension Gary, can you tell me how to make the Tiger easier to turn at lower speeds, like 15 mph or under. I always  blame the steering  geometry,  is it all that?  Beau 
> _______________________________________________
> 
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> 
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From bucktrippel at verizon.net  Fri Oct  1 12:00:20 2021
From: bucktrippel at verizon.net (Buck Trippel)
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2021 11:00:20 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] Front suspension
In-Reply-To: <1577997350.604633.1633106227483@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <CACQC2nWdwBhLzzfu7LT8LisQv--5pgQnWWtgZET1A35Eh4EnaA@mail.gmail.com>
 <830812442.1004153.1633054404982@connect.xfinity.com>
 <CACQC2nWqdyxbpsJfZydbYAoqLunsbYiY+zCKRM6=27xY8fn_cQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <494261672.1023398.1633099282074@connect.xfinity.com>
 <1408585327.599277.1633103675054@mail.yahoo.com>
 <1394424770.65617.1633105421591@connect.xfinity.com>
 <1577997350.604633.1633106227483@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <098401d7b6ee$336a86d0$9a3f9470$@verizon.net>

I have a lot on my plate right now so this will have to be brief. I?m replying to Mike?s earlier post and not Jim?s mods.

 

In Mike Jones? talk a few weeks ago at SUNI he described some of the challenges that he, Kevin Beattie and the Rootes engineers encountered when they put the Tiger into production. He mentioned that they knew that the rack position made anti-Ackerman an inevitable problem, but they were under a deadline to put the car into immediate production. They did design a MK2 version would have larger 14?wheels which could accommodate longer steering arms to lessen the problem as well as the larger 3-puck Girling brake package used on the Cobras and Austin Martins on all corners. But by the time the Mk2 was produced these were eliminated and only Mike?s relocation of the Panhard bar mount survived, chassis-wise.

 

So we all know the Tiger?s Ackerman is terrible. It also suffers from a complete lack of camber gain. And its bump steer is horrendous. (We?ve carefully measured all of them.) One discovery that prompted a chuckle was that when the Tiger takes a set in a hard turn the bump steer is so bad it actually corrects some of the Ackerman problems. I pointed this out to Mike and expected him to identify an engineer who came up with this entirely creative band-aid but instead he said he was sure it was completely unintentional. That immediately let the air out of my balloon.

 

As far as aftermarket fixes, Dale?s numbers look great for ackerman, camber gain and bump steer. I?ve driven Tigers with Hokansen?s mod and they drive nice but I never have seen his numbers.

 

As far as mods to the stock suspension, the main problem for me is Camber gain. When the chassis rolls it rotates the inside of the tire patches off the pavement. Any real fix needs the ball joints to be an inch or two further apart. The Tiger spindle weighs half what a Pinto?s does. It?s flimsy in comparison. We have seen enough flexing on the race track that I have been scared to space the ball joints further apart. We built a spaced a setup and did a one-day test with it at Willow and it worked but it now sits on the shelf due to my reluctance to take on more risk.  MG arms take a little of the problem away as does milling off the ?feet? on the rack but the aftermarket solution of putting the rack under the motor addresses all those problems. I think Dale is still selling his replacement crossmember front suspension but I suspect they will now cost you more than $5K.

 

As to the electric power steering from Europe, I?ve installed and tested it. It?s fine around town and on twisty roads however I can?t get enough caster into a Tiger to make it reasonable to use on the open road. It has too much friction for our cars to overcome it and track straight on the highway. You have correct constantly. For an hour or two that?s OK. It?s so much work that an 8 or 10 hour cross country day became impossible for me. So it now also sets on a shelf in the garage. I?m expanding the garage.

Buck Trippel 

 

 

From: Tigers <tigers-bounces at autox.team.net> On Behalf Of Michael Wood via Tigers
Sent: Friday, October 1, 2021 9:37 AM
To: garywinblad at comcast.net; blance598 at gmail.com; tigers at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Front suspension

 

I'm far from expert...maybe a layman open to experimenting lol 

 

I think a lot of guys building Mustangs, Camaros etc still do the Shelby drop (relocating the upper control arm downwards). But, I don't know how it would work on a Tiger, as we run into control arm clearance to unibody issues pretty quickly at the fastener to the rear (if you follow what I'm saying) when shimming for negative camber. That clearance becomes even less when you start looking at dropping the physical location of the UCA. So, the question would be whether the negative camber gained in drop would offset the loss of ability to shim, I guess. But, yeah, the camber curve should improve. 

 

Wonder if anyone has done it?

 

Mike



-----Original Message-----
From: GARY WINBLAD <garywinblad at comcast.net <mailto:garywinblad at comcast.net> >
To: Michael Wood <mwood24020 at aol.com <mailto:mwood24020 at aol.com> >; blance598 at gmail.com <mailto:blance598 at gmail.com>  <blance598 at gmail.com <mailto:blance598 at gmail.com> >; tigers at autox.team.net <mailto:tigers at autox.team.net>  <tigers at autox.team.net <mailto:tigers at autox.team.net> >
Sent: Fri, Oct 1, 2021 9:23 am
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Front suspension

Mike, 

Thanks for your expert analysis! 

Yes, I never did find what Ackerman is best either..  I heard Doane speak and he said the reverse Ackerman is actually an advantage when you are 

countersteering (what I think he meant).  I wrote a program to figure out how it works on the Tiger.  Turns out Ackerman is not really that bad until 

you get to pretty extreme steering angles, so on a big track it isn't really that bad.  And with initial toe-out dialed in it might not be that bad on a really 

tight course.  And because of the fulcrum pin issue, I NEVER go full lock anymore, even parking. 

Yeah camber... why did the lowered a-arm trick seem to work back in the day but isn't used anymore?  The GT-350s I have looked at still have it. 

I know it was bad for braking but so is initial negative camber? 

Heavy steering, why I left my big stock steering wheel. 

Gary 

 

On 10/01/2021 11:54 AM Michael Wood <mwood24020 at aol.com <mailto:mwood24020 at aol.com> > wrote: 

 

 

Gary, I think you nailed it, reverse Ackermann leads to some funky slip angles and strangely heavy steering, particularly felt at low speeds...the front tires are literally fighting each other. The fact we all typically add wider wheels makes the steering even heavier (both contact patch to move around and scrub radius). Finally, maxing out caster with wedges (which I do) makes it even worse!  

The longer MG steering arms help, I've found on cars I've driven so equipped, but I haven't bothered to do on my car. Toe out changes the slip angle and also helps get the car to turn in, but I only go to toe out (1/4") when autocrossing, as toe out also is a great way to kill tires. Besides the poor camber curve, Ackerman is another reason why I run as much negative camber as possible...if the outside wheel isn't technically aligned to the turn radius correctly, at least I can maximize the unaligned contact patch in roll lol. Funny thing, even the real experts I've read can't seem to agree on "Ackermann", because there are so many other variables. 

I don't know, outside of a custom solution like Dale's or Hokanson's front ends, of a real fix. I've just learned to live with heavy steering, but if it really is a problem, going to stock width wheels and smaller section width tires really makes a difference. The electric power steering solution has gotten to be a pretty easy deal, but that obviously does nothing to address the underlying geometry issues. 

Mike 


-----Original Message----- 
From: GARY WINBLAD <garywinblad at comcast.net <mailto:garywinblad at comcast.net> > 
To: Lance Beauchamp <blance598 at gmail.com <mailto:blance598 at gmail.com> >; Tiger List <tigers at autox.team.net <mailto:tigers at autox.team.net> > 
Sent: Fri, Oct 1, 2021 7:42 am 
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Front suspension 

Lance, 

 There are a couple more expensive solutions that might be still available. 

Dale did design and make an entire front crossmember/suspension.  It fixed the geometry but was about $5K 

last I heard, and he might have stopped making them. 

People (mostly in EU) have put in electric power steering.  It mounts up under the dash so it all looks stock, 

would be great in a parking lot or tight course.  Others have put in conventional hydraulic power steering. 

Shelby had his guys put in a Miata power rack in his wife's Tiger for instance. 

Gary 

 

On 10/01/2021 9:36 AM Lance Beauchamp <blance598 at gmail.com <mailto:blance598 at gmail.com> > wrote: 

 

 

So it is what it is, end of story, thank very much for a really good explanation,  still love the car. Beau  

 

On Thu, Sep 30, 2021, 10:13 PM GARY WINBLAD <garywinblad at comcast.net <mailto:garywinblad at comcast.net> > wrote: 

HI Lance, 

Steering geometry is a real problem.  Shelby throwing the rack way out in front of the engine was a quick solution. 

Rootes didn't want to change a Shelby design... so we suffer today.  Doane knew it was a problem but he thought 

Rootes would build a new crossmember. 

The problem is when you go around a corner, the inside wheel needs to run a smaller radius turn than the outside. 

Toe in on turns or Ackerman geometry is what it is called.   The Tiger has reverse Ackerman, the inner wheel turns 

a larger radius!  When I used to push my Tiger out to my slightly downhill driveway it was easier to turn the wheel 

full lock than to reach down and pull the parking brake... what a great design Shelby! 

On a tight autocross course or a parking lot this is really less than ideal...  MIKE analysis?? 

On a big course it might not make such a difference though Jim Adams said he had to "toss the Tiger like a sprint 

car"  (keeping it jumping and sliding rather than be smooth.. I hear that as...). 

 

Longer MGB steering arms and initial toe-out is the small solution Dale has... 

You may notice, its hard to turn the wheel at slow speeds, especially with big sticky tires. 

But once you go into a fairly tight turn, it becomes easier as both tires lose contact.. and the Tiger goes straight 

off the corner... 

 

Mike, do I have it anywhere correct? 

Gary W. 

 

On 09/30/2021 9:55 PM Lance Beauchamp <blance598 at gmail.com <mailto:blance598 at gmail.com> > wrote: 

 

 

You say you spend alot of time on suspension Gary, can you tell me how to make the Tiger easier to turn at lower speeds, like 15 mph or under. I always  blame the steering  geometry,  is it all that?  Beau  

_______________________________________________ 

tigers at autox.team.net <mailto:tigers at autox.team.net>  

Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html 
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers  <http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers> http://autox.team.net/archive 

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From atwittsend at verizon.net  Fri Oct  1 12:10:52 2021
From: atwittsend at verizon.net (Tom Witt)
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2021 11:10:52 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] Front suspension
In-Reply-To: <043c01d7b6e8$dddc28e0$99947aa0$@island.net>
References: <CACQC2nWdwBhLzzfu7LT8LisQv--5pgQnWWtgZET1A35Eh4EnaA@mail.gmail.com>
 <830812442.1004153.1633054404982@connect.xfinity.com>
 <CACQC2nWqdyxbpsJfZydbYAoqLunsbYiY+zCKRM6=27xY8fn_cQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <494261672.1023398.1633099282074@connect.xfinity.com>
 <1408585327.599277.1633103675054@mail.yahoo.com>
 <1394424770.65617.1633105421591@connect.xfinity.com>
 <1577997350.604633.1633106227483@mail.yahoo.com>
 <043c01d7b6e8$dddc28e0$99947aa0$@island.net>
Message-ID: <3b88af61-c934-c6c6-312b-c95da281b642@verizon.net>

On 10/1/2021 10:22 AM, jim via Tigers wrote:

> /"Maybe I shouldn?t have cancelled my ?hokanson? front end order years 
> ago but what would I do with my free time ??? lol!"/

I saw the Hokanson front end at Bud's shop (CAT Meeting) when they were 
first available. Maybe someone can clarify my memory but shortly 
thereafter someone else (Maybe Dale) offered something similar??? I 
believe there was a Tiger email from one of the Hokansan's feeling that 
their design had been copied and they weren't going to make any more. It 
might be in the list archives. I'm not sure if that ever got resolved. 
12 year old+ memory (or the lack of) so please anyone clarify the matter.


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From garywinblad at comcast.net  Fri Oct  1 13:14:48 2021
From: garywinblad at comcast.net (GARY WINBLAD)
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2021 15:14:48 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Tigers] Front suspension
In-Reply-To: <3b88af61-c934-c6c6-312b-c95da281b642@verizon.net>
References: <CACQC2nWdwBhLzzfu7LT8LisQv--5pgQnWWtgZET1A35Eh4EnaA@mail.gmail.com>
 <830812442.1004153.1633054404982@connect.xfinity.com>
 <CACQC2nWqdyxbpsJfZydbYAoqLunsbYiY+zCKRM6=27xY8fn_cQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <494261672.1023398.1633099282074@connect.xfinity.com>
 <1408585327.599277.1633103675054@mail.yahoo.com>
 <1394424770.65617.1633105421591@connect.xfinity.com>
 <1577997350.604633.1633106227483@mail.yahoo.com>
 <043c01d7b6e8$dddc28e0$99947aa0$@island.net>
 <3b88af61-c934-c6c6-312b-c95da281b642@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <1923701300.82700.1633115688830@connect.xfinity.com>

Dale came out with the second aftermarket suspension.   NOT a copy at all.  A knowledgeable friend looked at both, bought Dales.
He's real happy with it, hopped up street car only though...
Gary


>     On 10/01/2021 2:10 PM Tom Witt via Tigers <tigers at autox.team.net> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>     On 10/1/2021 10:22 AM, jim via Tigers wrote:
> 
>         > > "Maybe I shouldn?t have cancelled my ?hokanson? front end order years ago but what would I do with my free time ??  lol!"
> > 
> >     > 
>     I saw the Hokanson front end at Bud's shop  (CAT Meeting) when they were first available. Maybe someone can clarify my memory but shortly thereafter someone else (Maybe Dale) offered something similar??? I believe there was a Tiger email from one of the Hokansan's feeling that their design had been copied and they weren't going to make any more. It might be in the list archives. I'm not sure if that ever got resolved. 12 year old+ memory (or the lack of) so please anyone clarify the matter.
> 
> 
>     _______________________________________________
> 
>     tigers at autox.team.net
> 
>     Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>     Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive
> 
>     Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/garywinblad at comcast.net
> 
> 
> 
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From modtiger at comcast.net  Fri Oct  1 13:34:43 2021
From: modtiger at comcast.net (Tom Hall)
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2021 12:34:43 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] Front suspension
In-Reply-To: <043c01d7b6e8$dddc28e0$99947aa0$@island.net>
References: <CACQC2nWdwBhLzzfu7LT8LisQv--5pgQnWWtgZET1A35Eh4EnaA@mail.gmail.com>
 <830812442.1004153.1633054404982@connect.xfinity.com>
 <CACQC2nWqdyxbpsJfZydbYAoqLunsbYiY+zCKRM6=27xY8fn_cQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <494261672.1023398.1633099282074@connect.xfinity.com>
 <1408585327.599277.1633103675054@mail.yahoo.com>
 <1394424770.65617.1633105421591@connect.xfinity.com>
 <1577997350.604633.1633106227483@mail.yahoo.com>
 <043c01d7b6e8$dddc28e0$99947aa0$@island.net>
Message-ID: <f5efd648-8422-c3f4-0e33-bba8372e9388@comcast.net>

On 10/1/2021 10:22 AM, jim via Tigers wrote:
>
> I?m definitely a layman but like to tweak things !!!
>
> My car has the 1976 suspension tuning added holes to fully relocate 
> the upper A-arms and I?ve kept that setup. Other than minimal shimming 
> for castor the camber will NOT go to zero ( or positive) and I have 
> about 1 degree negative ? I have a unique brake setup with 11? Porsche 
> rotors on adapters and Wilwood Dynalite ?calipers behind 14? 3 piece 
> wheels. I changed the steering arms to the MGB one when I installed 
> the Mazda power steering. The mounting holes for the MGB arms are 
> parallel ?so require a spacer to mount them in stock location. I saw a 
> potential ( because my Wilwood brake mount ) to move the steering arm 
> outboard but that would also require the caliper and rotor to move the 
> same amount. I managed to move it all outboard ?? and with the slight 
> offset of the MGB arm, it?s almost ?? gain in reality. I bolted the 
> wheels back on and it ?seemed? to spin freely so I took it for a drive 
> and heard a slight ?ticking? in the wheels. It turned out that both 
> wheels had a couple of stick on wheel weights on the inside and the 
> calipers were just grazing the as they are about 1/8? thick. A couple 
> minutes with the grinder shaved off enough and its never been a 
> problem since!? I did the math back then and can?t remember exactly 
> but it certainly ( on paper ) improved the ackerman
>
> Maybe I shouldn?t have cancelled my ?hokanson? front end order years 
> ago but what would I do with my free time ??? lol!
>
> Jim
>
> B382000446
>
Guy's, It's been a long long time (early 70's) since I wrote that STOA 
Tech Tip on upper A-arm relocation.? I haven't used it years because the 
switch to radial tires pretty much eclipsed the advantage it showed when 
running bias ply tires.? Bill Martin has been developing a? stock based 
front suspension relocation of the disc and rotors outward (to give room 
to bent the steering arms outward) to aid in the reduction of the 
Ackerman problem, but it requires much more sophistication and new 
hardware.? Doane's solution was good on the track but lacking strength 
and durability for street application.

-- 
Tom Hall
ModTiger Engineering LLC
5712 San Luis Court
Pleasanton, CA 94566
(925)462-3876
modtiger at comcast.net
http://tigerengineering.net/

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From tsmit at shaw.ca  Fri Oct  1 15:43:53 2021
From: tsmit at shaw.ca (Theo Smit)
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2021 15:43:53 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: [Tigers] Front suspension
In-Reply-To: <1577997350.604633.1633106227483@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <CACQC2nWdwBhLzzfu7LT8LisQv--5pgQnWWtgZET1A35Eh4EnaA@mail.gmail.com>
 <830812442.1004153.1633054404982@connect.xfinity.com>
 <CACQC2nWqdyxbpsJfZydbYAoqLunsbYiY+zCKRM6=27xY8fn_cQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <494261672.1023398.1633099282074@connect.xfinity.com>
 <1408585327.599277.1633103675054@mail.yahoo.com>
 <1394424770.65617.1633105421591@connect.xfinity.com>
 <1577997350.604633.1633106227483@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <507832704.56849429.1633124633875.JavaMail.zimbra@shaw.ca>

Hi Mike, 

In 2001 or so, I figured out that a crash in the way-past had twisted both upper shock towers (in the same direction) and the previous owner(s) had not corrected it. 
I cut off the upper towers and put in coilover mounts, along with new upper control arm mounts. As part of that operation I lowered the inboard upper control arm mounts an inch. I'm also using the Minx spindles, and that keeps the control arm angles in a reasonable range. 

I reversed the lower fulcrum pins, which shifts the lower control arm forward about a quarter inch, and increases the caster. As part of that, I added bolt-on braces off the rear face of the crossmember so that the rear end of the fulcrum pins are mounted in double shear. 
I'm currently also running a quicker Flaming River rack, and the steering effort (with 205/45-16's) is pretty reasonable. 

I've been pondering re-doing all of this, because what remains of the original crossmember is pretty beat up and had numerous stress cracks that I welded up when I last had it out of the car. 
A few years ago I got a hold of an Alpine crossmember so that I could re-start with something that hopefully had led an easier life. To address the issue of insufficient balljoint spacing and spindle/hub rigidity, I'd start with Wilwood or somebody else's Mustang hubs and spindles. 
But as with many things, I have not taken this past the ideas stage. Critiques and ideas are welcome. 

To the question of "why don't you just buy Dale's"... part of my enjoyment of my Tiger is the making of stuff. Sometimes that means the car sits longer than I'd like but that's life. 

Cheers, 
Theo 


From: "tigers" <tigers at autox.team.net> 
To: "Gary" <garywinblad at comcast.net>, "Lance Beauchamp" <blance598 at gmail.com>, "tigers" <tigers at autox.team.net> 
Sent: Friday, October 1, 2021 10:37:07 AM 
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Front suspension 

<snip> 
Wonder if anyone has done it? 

Mike 

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From blance598 at gmail.com  Fri Oct  1 16:45:52 2021
From: blance598 at gmail.com (Lance Beauchamp)
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2021 18:45:52 -0400
Subject: [Tigers] Front suspension
Message-ID: <CACQC2nW2q8UBwQRjD1ZdYZ7vP4dNwmXujNcNNgYL1MVXzbZgfQ@mail.gmail.com>

I totally enjoy waking you guru's up , you know your stuff.
Thanks for sharing all that great info,
Everyone.  BEAU
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From mwood24020 at aol.com  Fri Oct  1 18:30:16 2021
From: mwood24020 at aol.com (Michael Wood)
Date: Sat, 2 Oct 2021 00:30:16 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Tigers] Front suspension
In-Reply-To: <507832704.56849429.1633124633875.JavaMail.zimbra@shaw.ca>
References: <CACQC2nWdwBhLzzfu7LT8LisQv--5pgQnWWtgZET1A35Eh4EnaA@mail.gmail.com>
 <830812442.1004153.1633054404982@connect.xfinity.com>
 <CACQC2nWqdyxbpsJfZydbYAoqLunsbYiY+zCKRM6=27xY8fn_cQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <494261672.1023398.1633099282074@connect.xfinity.com>
 <1408585327.599277.1633103675054@mail.yahoo.com>
 <1394424770.65617.1633105421591@connect.xfinity.com>
 <1577997350.604633.1633106227483@mail.yahoo.com>
 <507832704.56849429.1633124633875.JavaMail.zimbra@shaw.ca>
Message-ID: <225337526.693848.1633134616823@mail.yahoo.com>

Love it! I have so much respect for you guys (like my mentor, Tom) who can take ideas and shape them in metal.?
What I'd really like to see is someone build a tubular, double A-arm bolt in solution. I can do the math, but I sure as hell can't do the heavy lifting lol


-----Original Message-----
From: Theo Smit <tsmit at shaw.ca>
To: Michael Wood <mwood24020 at aol.com>
Cc: Gary <garywinblad at comcast.net>; Lance Beauchamp <blance598 at gmail.com>; tigers <tigers at autox.team.net>
Sent: Fri, Oct 1, 2021 2:43 pm
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Front suspension

Hi Mike,
In 2001 or so, I figured out that a crash in the way-past had twisted both upper shock towers (in the same direction) and the previous owner(s) had not corrected it. I cut off the upper towers and put in coilover mounts, along with new upper control arm mounts. As part of that operation I lowered the inboard upper control arm mounts an inch. I'm also using the Minx spindles, and that keeps the control arm angles in a reasonable range.
I reversed the lower fulcrum pins, which shifts the lower control arm forward about a quarter inch, and increases the caster. As part of that, I added bolt-on braces off the rear face of the crossmember so that the rear end of the fulcrum pins are mounted in double shear.I'm currently also running a quicker Flaming River rack, and the steering effort (with 205/45-16's) is pretty reasonable.?
I've been pondering re-doing all of this, because what remains of the original crossmember is pretty beat up and had numerous stress cracks that I welded up when I last had it out of the car.A few years ago I got a hold of an Alpine crossmember so that I could re-start with something that hopefully had led an easier life. To address the issue of insufficient balljoint spacing and spindle/hub rigidity, I'd start with Wilwood or somebody else's Mustang hubs and spindles.But as with many things, I have not taken this past the ideas stage. Critiques and ideas are welcome.
To the question of "why don't you just buy Dale's"... part of my enjoyment of my Tiger is the making of stuff. Sometimes that means the car sits longer than I'd like but that's life.
Cheers,Theo
From: "tigers" <tigers at autox.team.net>
To: "Gary" <garywinblad at comcast.net>, "Lance Beauchamp" <blance598 at gmail.com>, "tigers" <tigers at autox.team.net>
Sent: Friday, October 1, 2021 10:37:07 AM
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Front suspension

<snip>Wonder if anyone has done it?
Mike
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From mwood24020 at aol.com  Fri Oct  1 18:31:41 2021
From: mwood24020 at aol.com (Michael Wood)
Date: Sat, 2 Oct 2021 00:31:41 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Tigers] Front suspension
In-Reply-To: <098401d7b6ee$336a86d0$9a3f9470$@verizon.net>
References: <CACQC2nWdwBhLzzfu7LT8LisQv--5pgQnWWtgZET1A35Eh4EnaA@mail.gmail.com>
 <830812442.1004153.1633054404982@connect.xfinity.com>
 <CACQC2nWqdyxbpsJfZydbYAoqLunsbYiY+zCKRM6=27xY8fn_cQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <494261672.1023398.1633099282074@connect.xfinity.com>
 <1408585327.599277.1633103675054@mail.yahoo.com>
 <1394424770.65617.1633105421591@connect.xfinity.com>
 <1577997350.604633.1633106227483@mail.yahoo.com>
 <098401d7b6ee$336a86d0$9a3f9470$@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <1002882671.695830.1633134701049@mail.yahoo.com>

Buck, thanks for chiming in. I totally forgot to mention the bump steer issue, that is a great story re: Mike Jones.?Take careMike


-----Original Message-----
From: Buck Trippel <bucktrippel at verizon.net>
To: 'Michael Wood' <mwood24020 at aol.com>; garywinblad at comcast.net; blance598 at gmail.com
Cc: tigers at autox.team.net
Sent: Fri, Oct 1, 2021 11:00 am
Subject: RE: [Tigers] Front suspension

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I have a lot on my plate right now so this will have to be brief. I?m replying to Mike?s earlier post and not Jim?s mods.

 ?

In Mike Jones? talk a few weeks ago at SUNI he described some of the challenges that he, Kevin Beattie and the Rootes engineers encountered when they put the Tiger into production. He mentioned that they knew that the rack position made anti-Ackerman an inevitable problem, but they were under a deadline to put the car into immediate production. They did design a MK2 version would have larger 14?wheels which could accommodate longer steering arms to lessen the problem as well as the larger 3-puck Girling brake package used on the Cobras and Austin Martins on all corners. But by the time the Mk2 was produced these were eliminated and only Mike?s relocation of the Panhard bar mount survived, chassis-wise.

 ?

So we all know the Tiger?s Ackerman is terrible. It also suffers from a complete lack of camber gain. And its bump steer is horrendous. (We?ve carefully measured all of them.) One discovery that prompted a chuckle was that when the Tiger takes a set in a hard turn the bump steer is so bad it actually corrects some of the Ackerman problems. I pointed this out to Mike and expected him to identify an engineer who came up with this entirely creative band-aid but instead he said he was sure it was completely unintentional. That immediately let the air out of my balloon.

 ?

As far as aftermarket fixes, Dale?s numbers look great for ackerman, camber gain and bump steer. I?ve driven Tigers with Hokansen?s mod and they drive nice but I never have seen his numbers.

 ?

As far as mods to the stock suspension, the main problem for me is Camber gain. When the chassis rolls it rotates the inside of the tire patches off the pavement. Any real fix needs the ball joints to be an inch or two further apart. The Tiger spindle weighs half what a Pinto?s does. It?s flimsy in comparison. We have seen enough flexing on the race track that I have been scared to space the ball joints further apart. We built a spaced a setup and did a one-day test with it at Willow and it worked but it now sits on the shelf due to my reluctance to take on more risk.? MG arms take a little of the problem away as does milling off the ?feet? on the rack but the aftermarket solution of putting the rack under the motor addresses all those problems. I think Dale is still selling his replacement crossmember front suspension but I suspect they will now cost you more than $5K.

 ?

As to the electric power steering from Europe, I?ve installed and tested it. It?s fine around town and on twisty roads however I can?t get enough caster into a Tiger to make it reasonable to use on the open road. It has too much friction for our cars to overcome it and track straight on the highway. You have correct constantly. For an hour or two that?s OK. It?s so much work that an 8 or 10 hour cross country day became impossible for me. So it now also sets on a shelf in the garage. I?m expanding the garage.

 

Buck Trippel 

 ?

 ?

From: Tigers <tigers-bounces at autox.team.net> On Behalf Of Michael Wood via Tigers
Sent: Friday, October 1, 2021 9:37 AM
To: garywinblad at comcast.net; blance598 at gmail.com; tigers at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Front suspension

 ?

I'm far from expert...maybe a layman open to experimenting lol?

 ?

I think a lot of guys building Mustangs, Camaros etc still do the Shelby drop (relocating the upper control arm downwards). But, I don't know how it would work on a Tiger, as we run into control arm clearance to unibody issues pretty quickly at the fastener to the rear (if you follow what I'm saying) when shimming for negative camber. That clearance becomes even less when you start looking at dropping the physical location of the UCA. So, the question would be whether the negative camber gained in drop would offset the loss of ability to shim, I guess. But, yeah, the camber curve should improve.?

 ?

Wonder if anyone has done it?

 ?

Mike



-----Original Message-----
From: GARY WINBLAD <garywinblad at comcast.net>
To: Michael Wood <mwood24020 at aol.com>; blance598 at gmail.com <blance598 at gmail.com>; tigers at autox.team.net <tigers at autox.team.net>
Sent: Fri, Oct 1, 2021 9:23 am
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Front suspension

Mike, 

Thanks for your expert analysis! 

Yes, I never did find what Ackerman is best either..? I heard Doane speak and he said the reverse Ackerman is actually an advantage when you are 

countersteering (what I think he meant).? I wrote a program to figure out how it works on the Tiger.? Turns out Ackerman is not really that bad until 

you get to pretty extreme steering angles, so on a big track it isn't really that bad.? And with initial toe-out dialed in it might not be that bad on a really 

tight course.? And because of the fulcrum pin issue, I NEVER go full lock anymore, even parking. 

Yeah camber... why did the lowered a-arm trick seem to work back in the day but isn't used anymore?? The GT-350s I have looked at still have it. 

I know it was bad for braking but so is initial negative camber? 

Heavy steering, why I left my big stock steering wheel. 

Gary 

 ?


On 10/01/2021 11:54 AM Michael Wood <mwood24020 at aol.com> wrote: 

 ?

 ?

Gary, I think you nailed it, reverse Ackermann leads to some funky slip angles and strangely heavy steering, particularly felt at low speeds...the front tires are literally fighting each other. The fact we all typically add wider wheels makes the steering even heavier (both contact patch to move around and scrub radius). Finally, maxing out caster with wedges (which I do) makes it even worse!? 

The longer MG steering arms help, I've found on cars I've driven so equipped, but I haven't bothered to do on my car. Toe out changes the slip angle and also helps get the car to turn in, but I only go to toe out (1/4") when autocrossing, as toe out also is a great way to kill tires. Besides the poor camber curve, Ackerman is another reason why I run as much negative camber as possible...if the outside wheel isn't technically aligned to the turn radius correctly, at least I can maximize the unaligned contact patch in roll lol. Funny thing, even the real experts I've read can't seem to agree on "Ackermann", because there are so many other variables. 

I don't know, outside of a custom solution like Dale's or Hokanson's front ends, of a real fix. I've just learned to live with heavy steering, but if it really is a problem, going to stock width wheels and smaller section width tires really makes a difference. The electric power steering solution has gotten to be a pretty easy?deal, but that obviously does nothing to address the underlying geometry issues. 

Mike 


-----Original Message----- 
From: GARY WINBLAD <garywinblad at comcast.net> 
To: Lance Beauchamp <blance598 at gmail.com>; Tiger List <tigers at autox.team.net> 
Sent: Fri, Oct 1, 2021 7:42 am 
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Front suspension 

Lance, 

?There are a couple more expensive solutions that might be still available. 

Dale did design and make an entire front crossmember/suspension.? It fixed the geometry but was about $5K 

last I heard, and he might have stopped making them. 

People (mostly in EU) have put in electric power steering.? It mounts up under the dash so it all looks stock, 

would be great in a parking lot or tight course.? Others have put in conventional hydraulic power steering. 

Shelby had his guys put in a Miata power rack in his wife's Tiger for instance. 

Gary 

 ?


On 10/01/2021 9:36 AM Lance Beauchamp <blance598 at gmail.com> wrote: 

 ?

 ?

So it is what it is, end of story, thank very much for a really good explanation,? still love the car. Beau? 

 ?

On Thu, Sep 30, 2021, 10:13 PM GARY WINBLAD <garywinblad at comcast.net> wrote: 


HI Lance, 

Steering geometry is a real problem.? Shelby throwing the rack way out in front of the engine was a quick solution. 

Rootes didn't want to change a Shelby design... so we suffer today.? Doane knew it was a problem but he thought 

Rootes would build a new crossmember. 

The problem is when you go around a corner, the inside wheel needs to run a smaller radius turn than the outside. 

Toe in on turns or Ackerman geometry is what it is called.? ?The Tiger has reverse Ackerman, the inner wheel turns 

a larger radius!? When I used to push my Tiger out to my slightly downhill driveway it was easier to turn the wheel 

full lock than to reach down and pull the parking brake... what a great design Shelby! 

On a tight autocross course or a parking lot this is really less than ideal...? MIKE analysis?? 

On a big course it might not make such a difference though Jim Adams said he had to "toss the Tiger like a sprint 

car"? (keeping it jumping and sliding rather than be smooth.. I hear that as...). 

 ?

Longer MGB steering arms and initial toe-out is the small solution Dale has... 

You may notice, its hard to turn the wheel at slow speeds, especially with big sticky tires. 

But once you go into a fairly tight turn, it becomes easier as both tires lose contact.. and the Tiger goes straight 

off the corner... 

 ?

Mike, do I have it anywhere correct? 

Gary W. 

 ?


On 09/30/2021 9:55 PM Lance Beauchamp <blance598 at gmail.com> wrote: 

 ?

 ?

You say you spend alot of time on suspension Gary, can you tell me how to make the Tiger easier to turn at lower speeds, like 15 mph or under. I always? blame the steering? geometry,? is it all that?? Beau? 




_______________________________________________ 

tigers at autox.team.net 

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From michael.s.king at gmail.com  Fri Oct  1 21:25:05 2021
From: michael.s.king at gmail.com (michael king)
Date: Sat, 2 Oct 2021 11:25:05 +0800
Subject: [Tigers] Rear Sway Bar
In-Reply-To: <2050614079.413725.1633027128242@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <SN1PR18MB2175A23366633A422926939EFDAA9@SN1PR18MB2175.namprd18.prod.outlook.com>
 <595454312.417583.1633026860450@mail.yahoo.com>
 <2050614079.413725.1633027128242@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CAET8snWHTwkSrd8BWz0LkZ_CbnvYJx=6eQHCVOy+hQi+-f6Czw@mail.gmail.com>

Mike.. C'mon.. Ive made tons of my own stupid mistakes without heading the
advice of others.... How do you think i bought a TIGER ;-)

On Friday, 1 October 2021, Michael Wood via Tigers <tigers at autox.team.net>
wrote:

> Well...that was meant to go directly to Dan lol
>
> Looks like I've outed myself. But, that's been my experience, YMMV.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Michael Wood via Tigers <tigers at autox.team.net>
> To: tigers at autox.team.net <tigers at autox.team.net>
> Sent: Thu, Sep 30, 2021 11:35 am
> Subject: Re: [Tigers] Rear Sway Bar
>
> No doubt, a custom made rear bar, preferably adjustable, can be helpful,
> particularly with a modified front end. Agree, the aftermarket stuff
> available is not worth buying. Tiger guys tend to just do what others have
> done before them, I'm afraid. Not a lot of testing or work goes into many
> decisions and, because most of the cars don't work as well as they could,
> no one can tell the difference.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: daniel doornbos via Tigers <tigers at autox.team.net>
> To: tigers at autox.team.net <tigers at autox.team.net>
> Sent: Thu, Sep 30, 2021 10:24 am
> Subject: [Tigers] Rear Sway Bar
>
> I couldn't find an aftermarket rear sway bar for the Tiger I liked.  And I
> looked at the DIY weld kits.  But after reading and finding that bending
> and welding impact metal spring rate and you should temper the bar post
> fabrication to get it to work correctly.  For the rear end and space I
> needed to put in bends around the pumpkin and linkages.
>
> I do recognize that welded options will also work well.  My Mustang II
> front end from Mike H has a welded bar.  But for the rear packaging, I
> needed too many bends and couldn't locate a straight bar type in the
> space.   In the end, I went with a custom-built from https://www.
> carolinaswaybar.com/ It was a premium price but they were great to work
> with.
>
> Maybe in the next decade I'll get enough motivation to finish and drive
> the car to see how good my choices were.
>
> dan
> <https://www.carolinaswaybar.com/>
> Carolina Swaybar Manufacturing - Newland, NC
> <https://www.carolinaswaybar.com/>
> Carolina Swaybar Manufacturing designs and creates the best swaybars on
> the market today. Industry leading R&D, commitment to customer satisfaction.
> www.carolinaswaybar.com
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> tigers at autox.team.net
>
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers
> http://autox.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/mwood24020 at aol.
> com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> tigers at autox.team.net
>
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers
> http://autox.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/mwood24020 at aol.
> com
>
>
>

-- 
Regards

Michael King
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From tsmit at shaw.ca  Fri Oct  1 21:33:00 2021
From: tsmit at shaw.ca (Theo Smit)
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2021 21:33:00 -0600
Subject: [Tigers] Front suspension
In-Reply-To: <225337526.693848.1633134616823@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <CACQC2nWdwBhLzzfu7LT8LisQv--5pgQnWWtgZET1A35Eh4EnaA@mail.gmail.com>
 <830812442.1004153.1633054404982@connect.xfinity.com>
 <CACQC2nWqdyxbpsJfZydbYAoqLunsbYiY+zCKRM6=27xY8fn_cQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <494261672.1023398.1633099282074@connect.xfinity.com>
 <1408585327.599277.1633103675054@mail.yahoo.com>
 <1394424770.65617.1633105421591@connect.xfinity.com>
 <1577997350.604633.1633106227483@mail.yahoo.com>
 <507832704.56849429.1633124633875.JavaMail.zimbra@shaw.ca>
 <225337526.693848.1633134616823@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <BED6EB29-A5A4-44A0-BA14-95EA7B7B981B@shaw.ca>

Hi MIke,
Respect goes both ways. You and many others have much more autocross and racing experience than I?ll ever accumulate and you all sharing your insights helps me figure out what it is I should be trying to do.

Thanks,
Theo

> On Oct 1, 2021, at 6:30 PM, Michael Wood <mwood24020 at aol.com> wrote:
> 
> Love it! I have so much respect for you guys (like my mentor, Tom) who can take ideas and shape them in metal. 
> 
> What I'd really like to see is someone build a tubular, double A-arm bolt in solution. I can do the math, but I sure as hell can't do the heavy lifting lol
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Theo Smit <tsmit at shaw.ca>
> To: Michael Wood <mwood24020 at aol.com>
> Cc: Gary <garywinblad at comcast.net>; Lance Beauchamp <blance598 at gmail.com>; tigers <tigers at autox.team.net>
> Sent: Fri, Oct 1, 2021 2:43 pm
> Subject: Re: [Tigers] Front suspension
> 
> Hi Mike,
> 
> In 2001 or so, I figured out that a crash in the way-past had twisted both upper shock towers (in the same direction) and the previous owner(s) had not corrected it.
> I cut off the upper towers and put in coilover mounts, along with new upper control arm mounts. As part of that operation I lowered the inboard upper control arm mounts an inch. I'm also using the Minx spindles, and that keeps the control arm angles in a reasonable range.
> 
> I reversed the lower fulcrum pins, which shifts the lower control arm forward about a quarter inch, and increases the caster. As part of that, I added bolt-on braces off the rear face of the crossmember so that the rear end of the fulcrum pins are mounted in double shear.
> I'm currently also running a quicker Flaming River rack, and the steering effort (with 205/45-16's) is pretty reasonable. 
> 
> I've been pondering re-doing all of this, because what remains of the original crossmember is pretty beat up and had numerous stress cracks that I welded up when I last had it out of the car.
> A few years ago I got a hold of an Alpine crossmember so that I could re-start with something that hopefully had led an easier life. To address the issue of insufficient balljoint spacing and spindle/hub rigidity, I'd start with Wilwood or somebody else's Mustang hubs and spindles.
> But as with many things, I have not taken this past the ideas stage. Critiques and ideas are welcome.
> 
> To the question of "why don't you just buy Dale's"... part of my enjoyment of my Tiger is the making of stuff. Sometimes that means the car sits longer than I'd like but that's life.
> 
> Cheers,
> Theo
> 
> From: "tigers" <tigers at autox.team.net>
> To: "Gary" <garywinblad at comcast.net>, "Lance Beauchamp" <blance598 at gmail.com>, "tigers" <tigers at autox.team.net>
> 
> Sent: Friday, October 1, 2021 10:37:07 AM
> Subject: Re: [Tigers] Front suspension
> 
> <snip>
> Wonder if anyone has done it?
> 
> Mike
> 

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From srwick at hotmail.com  Sat Oct  2 08:30:37 2021
From: srwick at hotmail.com (steve wick)
Date: Sat, 2 Oct 2021 14:30:37 +0000
Subject: [Tigers] Tiger Rear Sway bar
In-Reply-To: <283777019.467420.1633039305559@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <996316830.213765.1632948783698.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
 <996316830.213765.1632948783698@mail.yahoo.com>
 <1855474640.220733.1632965269778@mail.yahoo.com>
 <BYAPR07MB50464598508664CFAB738F2EC1AA9@BYAPR07MB5046.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>
 <SA1PR06MB835644AFC4D6E1274D015AA9D8AA9@SA1PR06MB8356.namprd06.prod.outlook.com>
 <CAKb_wfmUsMd7iYtaG9REHtYA0gGi57UM4_w7Ju28dHtK22-QZw@mail.gmail.com>
 <1155974949.319030.1633017674972@mail.yahoo.com>
 <SA1PR06MB8356A0D50F52B1166937353FD8AA9@SA1PR06MB8356.namprd06.prod.outlook.com>
 <283777019.467420.1633039305559@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <SA1PR06MB8356CE4945EBD2FA0F56AF83D8AC9@SA1PR06MB8356.namprd06.prod.outlook.com>

I'd still like to see what the stock bracket looks like, just for reference. The only thing I can find online is this one from England, but it looks like it might have at most 3 mounting holes and my car frame had/ has 4.

Steve



________________________________
From: Michael Wood <mwood24020 at aol.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 30, 2021 3:01 PM
To: srwick at hotmail.com <srwick at hotmail.com>; jbbrown1980 at gmail.com <jbbrown1980 at gmail.com>
Cc: tigers at autox.team.net <tigers at autox.team.net>; MTaylor at ea.com <MTaylor at ea.com>
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tiger Rear Sway bar

I think what you're suggesting would work better than trying to replicate the stock set up.
Mike


-----Original Message-----
From: steve wick <srwick at hotmail.com>
To: jbbrown1980 at gmail.com <jbbrown1980 at gmail.com>; Michael Wood <mwood24020 at aol.com>
Cc: tigers at autox.team.net <tigers at autox.team.net>; MTaylor at ea.com <MTaylor at ea.com>
Sent: Thu, Sep 30, 2021 2:00 pm
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tiger Rear Sway bar

I've emailed Tom in the past, and he does make a nice kit. My car had the "typical" ripped frame rail in addition to the parts being missing. Without knowing about Tom's kit in 2008, what I did was make a plate with coupling nuts welded to the surface of it in the proper locations, opened up the hole in the inner frame rail a little more and welded the plate to the inside of the outer frame half. I then made a flat plate with holes that fit over, but flush with the end of the coupling nuts and butt welded that to the inner frame rail half and the outside circumference of the coupling nuts. It looks like an undamaged flat frame section with threaded bosses for the panhard bar bracket bolts to go into, but is reinforced and connected to both sides of the frame rail. That's why I was looking for just the bracket and bar, but either I was unaware of or had forgotten about the angle/alignment issue. It sounds like what I should just do at this point is put my car up on the lift and custom build a bracket and bar, located so the bar is parallel with the ground and not at an angle.

Steve

________________________________
From: Michael Wood <mwood24020 at aol.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 30, 2021 9:01 AM
To: jbbrown1980 at gmail.com <jbbrown1980 at gmail.com>; srwick at hotmail.com <srwick at hotmail.com>
Cc: tigers at autox.team.net <tigers at autox.team.net>; MTaylor at ea.com <MTaylor at ea.com>
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tiger Rear Sway bar

If you guys are going to put Panhard bars back on, I'd suggest getting one of Tom Hall's kits which helps with the bar angle and addresses mount area issues.

tigerengineering.net

Mike




-----Original Message-----
From: Joe Brown <jbbrown1980 at gmail.com>
To: steve wick <srwick at hotmail.com>
Cc: Michael Wood <mwood24020 at aol.com>; tigers at autox.team.net <tigers at autox.team.net>; Taylor, Matthew <MTaylor at ea.com>
Sent: Thu, Sep 30, 2021 8:55 am
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tiger Rear Sway bar

I would also like pictures or drawings.

Thanks,
Joe Brown

On Thu, Sep 30, 2021 at 9:50 AM steve wick via Tigers <tigers at autox.team.net<mailto:tigers at autox.team.net>> wrote:
On a slightly different note, my Tiger is missing the panhard bar and mounting bracket. I've looked off and on for several years and never found one. I know I can get a reinforced bracket that welds in, but don't run my car hard and prefer "factory". If anyone has a bar and bracket laying around and wants to sell, or if I could get pictures and measurements of both so I could replicate them, please email me off list. I have a Mk1 with the bracket on the right side. Thanks guys.

Steve

________________________________
From: Tigers <tigers-bounces at autox.team.net<mailto:tigers-bounces at autox.team.net>> on behalf of Taylor, Matthew via Tigers <tigers at autox.team.net<mailto:tigers at autox.team.net>>
Sent: Thursday, September 30, 2021 7:07 AM
To: Michael Wood <mwood24020 at aol.com<mailto:mwood24020 at aol.com>>; tigers at autox.team.net<mailto:tigers at autox.team.net> <tigers at autox.team.net<mailto:tigers at autox.team.net>>
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tiger Rear Sway bar


I don?t know about ?total grip capability,? but you have seen my dad drive his Tiger with the rear sway bar and it works great.  I?ve driven and autocrossed Tigers that are set up properly with or without the rear sway bar and they both handle great but different.  A good driver can adjust to the differences and take advantages of the differences, but I doubt one is much faster than the other.  It?s possible that one could be faster than the other depending on the type of course, but it would be fractions of a second based on my autocross experiences.



Matthew



From: Tigers <tigers-bounces at autox.team.net<mailto:tigers-bounces at autox.team.net>> On Behalf Of Michael Wood via Tigers
Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2021 6:28 PM
To: tigers at autox.team.net<mailto:tigers at autox.team.net>
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tiger Rear Sway bar



Like said, any rear bar on a Tiger is an aftermarket solution...and I've yet to see one (not counting custom fabricated with heim joints, correct angles, adjustability etc used in conjunction with front end improvements) that made any sense or was additive to total grip capability.



Mike


-----Original Message-----
From: Joel Martin via Tigers <tigers at autox.team.net<mailto:tigers at autox.team.net>>
To: Tiger List Serve <tigers at autox.team.net<mailto:tigers at autox.team.net>>
Sent: Wed, Sep 29, 2021 1:54 pm
Subject: [Tigers] Tiger Rear Sway bar

Was a rear sway bar originally fitted on the Tiger or was it a LAT option or not?  Size, mounting points? Either way could someone post some pictures of how they were suppose to be mounted and installed?



Thanks



Joel Martin



_______________________________________________

tigers at autox.team.net<mailto:tigers at autox.team.net>

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From clydemclaughlin at verizon.net  Sun Oct  3 03:40:50 2021
From: clydemclaughlin at verizon.net (clydemclaughlin at verizon.net)
Date: Sun, 3 Oct 2021 09:40:50 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Tigers] (no subject)
References: <546076968.826414.1633254050439.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <546076968.826414.1633254050439@mail.yahoo.com>



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From drmayf at mayfco.com  Mon Oct  4 10:57:34 2021
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (Larry Mayfield)
Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2021 09:57:34 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] Brake Drum Question...
Message-ID: <002401d7b940$eef5ca50$cce15ef0$@mayfco.com>

I have a pair of  Alpine Series 5 rear brake drums. are they the same as my
Tiger Mk1 drums?  If so I wanna keep them for my car. 

 

Larry  aka mayf   aka drmayf etc.

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From drmayf at mayfco.com  Mon Oct  4 11:48:18 2021
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (Larry Mayfield)
Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2021 10:48:18 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] More Common Part Questions...
Message-ID: <003501d7b948$05735f70$105a1e50$@mayfco.com>

Are the front lower A arms the same on Alpine S5 as Tiger?  Front upright
spindles? Upper and lower ball joints?  Front hubs? Tie rod ends? I know
steering arms are different,  but what else is common? Generally. 

 

Anything else? 

 

mayf

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From rfraser at bluefrog.com  Mon Oct  4 11:54:18 2021
From: rfraser at bluefrog.com (Ron Fraser)
Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2021 13:54:18 -0400
Subject: [Tigers] back to the battery wood packers
Message-ID: <000c01d7b948$db9f40f0$92ddc2d0$@bluefrog.com>

Under tray wood - the offset of the body mount holes on my Tiger is 3/16"

I made a cardboard templet per the drawing - pic #1 - the offset angle is
acceptable to me

 

Pic #2 - battery tray over the templet - in my opinion this sticks out too
far and at the front area it is tight to the body

I will make and install this piece before I make a judgement call on its
length - this is not a concours Tiger

 

Side wood - I made a piece per the drawing and I found that my body mount
holes are about a 1/16" closer together - I opened the through holes to make
this piece fit better   I made a 2nd piece with the mount holes closer and a
better fit

 

I do suggest that anyone making this piece - check the body mount hole
distance carefully and make any needed correction.

You can make 1 mount hole, install with 1 screw and mark exactly where the
2nd hole is located.

 

Now to apply some wood preservative and let them dry - I'll install these
pieces later this month

 

Ron Fraser

 

 

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From garywinblad at comcast.net  Mon Oct  4 13:39:14 2021
From: garywinblad at comcast.net (GARY WINBLAD)
Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2021 15:39:14 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Tigers] More Common Part Questions...
In-Reply-To: <003501d7b948$05735f70$105a1e50$@mayfco.com>
References: <003501d7b948$05735f70$105a1e50$@mayfco.com>
Message-ID: <1860142166.73952.1633376354770@connect.xfinity.com>

Hi Mayf,
The Alpine a-arms are the same except they have a "stop" for the steering angle, a tab sticking up that could be cut off..
as far as I know.  The spindles are the same (they have a little (trianglular) projection at the bottom for the aforementioned Alpine
a-arm stop tab, not used on the TIger which relies on the rack travel stop.
Ball joints the same, though I think the TIger ones may be up-spec'd by some suppliers?
Hubs same I think.  Tie rod ends are DIFFERENT.
Gary


>     On 10/04/2021 1:48 PM Larry Mayfield via Tigers <tigers at autox.team.net> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>     Are the front lower A arms the same on Alpine S5 as Tiger?  Front upright spindles? Upper and lower ball joints?  Front hubs? Tie rod ends? I know steering arms are different,  but what else is common? Generally.
> 
> 
>     Anything else?
> 
> 
>     mayf
> 
>     _______________________________________________
> 
>     tigers at autox.team.net
> 
>     Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>     Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive
> 
>     Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/garywinblad at comcast.net
> 
> 
> 
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From jay.laifman at gmail.com  Mon Oct  4 13:48:38 2021
From: jay.laifman at gmail.com (Jay)
Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2021 12:48:38 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] back to the battery wood packers
In-Reply-To: <000c01d7b948$db9f40f0$92ddc2d0$@bluefrog.com>
References: <000c01d7b948$db9f40f0$92ddc2d0$@bluefrog.com>
Message-ID: <585836A8-2E43-4481-81A1-31A5A4EE70A2@gmail.com>

I haven?t been focusing on this.  So I might be misunderstanding.  It sounds like Rootes messed up and the tray didn?t exactly fit, and they needed to kludge together a bandaid to get the cars out the door.  And we?ve got dozens of emails going back and forth on this kludge.

Reminds me of the show I watched about early Corvette restoration - years ago.  The expert showed how the AC or alternator bracket paint would peel almost immediately after leaving the factory.  So he had perfected that peeling!

On the other hand, the wood piece was perhaps one of the most ?human? parts of the car.  All the more reason to honor it.  Though still very funny.

Jay
  

> On Oct 4, 2021, at 10:54 AM, Ron Fraser <rfraser at bluefrog.com> wrote:
> 
> Under tray wood ? the offset of the body mount holes on my Tiger is 3/16?
> I made a cardboard templet per the drawing ? pic #1 ? the offset angle is acceptable to me
>  
> Pic #2 ? battery tray over the templet ? in my opinion this sticks out too far and at the front area it is tight to the body
> I will make and install this piece before I make a judgement call on its length ? this is not a concours Tiger
>  
> Side wood ? I made a piece per the drawing and I found that my body mount holes are about a 1/16? closer together ? I opened the through holes to make this piece fit better   I made a 2nd piece with the mount holes closer and a better fit
>  
> I do suggest that anyone making this piece ? check the body mount hole distance carefully and make any needed correction.
> You can make 1 mount hole, install with 1 screw and mark exactly where the 2nd hole is located.
>  
> Now to apply some wood preservative and let them dry ? I?ll install these pieces later this month
>  
> Ron Fraser
>  
>  
> <100_5041.jpg><100_5042.jpg>_______________________________________________
> 
> tigers at autox.team.net <mailto:tigers at autox.team.net>
> 
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html <http://www.team.net/donate.html>
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers <http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers> http://autox.team.net/archive <http://autox.team.net/archive>
> 
> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/jay.laifman at gmail.com <http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/jay.laifman at gmail.com>
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From rfraser at bluefrog.com  Mon Oct  4 14:11:59 2021
From: rfraser at bluefrog.com (Ron Fraser)
Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2021 16:11:59 -0400
Subject: [Tigers] back to the battery wood packers
In-Reply-To: <585836A8-2E43-4481-81A1-31A5A4EE70A2@gmail.com>
References: <000c01d7b948$db9f40f0$92ddc2d0$@bluefrog.com>
 <585836A8-2E43-4481-81A1-31A5A4EE70A2@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <002e01d7b95c$176b8090$464281b0$@bluefrog.com>

Jay

                I don?t think Rootes messed up.

The trunk floor is not flat, it has a raised sections the battery sets upon.

 

The side wood keeps the battery off the big rubber grommet for the rear spring shackle.

You need 2 Battery Packers was the answer.

 

Besides, How can you have a Proper British Car if it has no wood - ? 

 

Ron Fraser

 

From: Jay <jay.laifman at gmail.com> 
Sent: Monday, October 04, 2021 3:49 PM
To: Ron Fraser <rfraser at bluefrog.com>
Cc: <tigers at autox.team.net> <tigers at Autox.Team.Net>
Subject: Re: [Tigers] back to the battery wood packers

 

I haven?t been focusing on this.  So I might be misunderstanding.  It sounds like Rootes messed up and the tray didn?t exactly fit, and they needed to kludge together a bandaid to get the cars out the door.  And we?ve got dozens of emails going back and forth on this kludge.

 

Reminds me of the show I watched about early Corvette restoration - years ago.  The expert showed how the AC or alternator bracket paint would peel almost immediately after leaving the factory.  So he had perfected that peeling!

 

On the other hand, the wood piece was perhaps one of the most ?human? parts of the car.  All the more reason to honor it.  Though still very funny.

 

Jay

  





On Oct 4, 2021, at 10:54 AM, Ron Fraser <rfraser at bluefrog.com <mailto:rfraser at bluefrog.com> > wrote:

 

Under tray wood ? the offset of the body mount holes on my Tiger is 3/16?

I made a cardboard templet per the drawing ? pic #1 ? the offset angle is acceptable to me

 

Pic #2 ? battery tray over the templet ? in my opinion this sticks out too far and at the front area it is tight to the body

I will make and install this piece before I make a judgement call on its length ? this is not a concours Tiger

 

Side wood ? I made a piece per the drawing and I found that my body mount holes are about a 1/16? closer together ? I opened the through holes to make this piece fit better   I made a 2nd piece with the mount holes closer and a better fit

 

I do suggest that anyone making this piece ? check the body mount hole distance carefully and make any needed correction.

You can make 1 mount hole, install with 1 screw and mark exactly where the 2nd hole is located.

 

Now to apply some wood preservative and let them dry ? I?ll install these pieces later this month

 

Ron Fraser

 

 

<100_5041.jpg><100_5042.jpg>_______________________________________________

 <mailto:tigers at autox.team.net> tigers at autox.team.net

Donate:  <http://www.team.net/donate.html> http://www.team.net/donate.html
Archive:  <http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers> http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers  <http://autox.team.net/archive> http://autox.team.net/archive

Unsubscribe:  <http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/jay.laifman at gmail.com> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/jay.laifman at gmail.com

 

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From drmayf at mayfco.com  Mon Oct  4 14:52:34 2021
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (Larry Mayfield)
Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2021 13:52:34 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] back to the battery wood packers
In-Reply-To: <002e01d7b95c$176b8090$464281b0$@bluefrog.com>
References: <000c01d7b948$db9f40f0$92ddc2d0$@bluefrog.com>
 <585836A8-2E43-4481-81A1-31A5A4EE70A2@gmail.com>
 <002e01d7b95c$176b8090$464281b0$@bluefrog.com>
Message-ID: <006601d7b961$c47a13a0$4d6e3ae0$@mayfco.com>

I think it was simpler than anyone has brought up. The car was founded on the S4 and S5 Alpines which had the bat box under the parcel shelf (aka rear seat). And the trunk floor was made to a stamping drawing and if it needed to be done differently a new set of dies would have had to have been made ($$$$). Batteries need to sit flat and so a plastic (nylon I think). I believe that originally the rear mounted tray fit the lip on the fame side. That would  have given the tray a side mount under as well. Bu that use in the position as mentioned below required that it be spaced out a tad. Ok, the skinny long piece of wood behind the tray maintains side clearance for a few pennies. But that left the inside of the box unsupported some so another r piece of cheap wood solved that issue. Nothing strange about money making decisions. All because they needed a place to put the electric fuel pump and that place was under the parcel tray with an access door.   

 

Smart decisions tome.

 

mayf 

 

From: Tigers <tigers-bounces at autox.team.net> On Behalf Of Ron Fraser
Sent: Monday, October 4, 2021 1:12 PM
To: 'Jay' <jay.laifman at gmail.com>
Cc: '<tigers at autox.team.net>' <tigers at Autox.Team.Net>
Subject: Re: [Tigers] back to the battery wood packers

 

Jay

                I don?t think Rootes messed up.

The trunk floor is not flat, it has a raised sections the battery sets upon.

 

The side wood keeps the battery off the big rubber grommet for the rear spring shackle.

You need 2 Battery Packers was the answer.

 

Besides, How can you have a Proper British Car if it has no wood - ? 

 

Ron Fraser

 

From: Jay <jay.laifman at gmail.com <mailto:jay.laifman at gmail.com> > 
Sent: Monday, October 04, 2021 3:49 PM
To: Ron Fraser <rfraser at bluefrog.com <mailto:rfraser at bluefrog.com> >
Cc: <tigers at autox.team.net <mailto:tigers at autox.team.net> > <tigers at Autox.Team.Net <mailto:tigers at Autox.Team.Net> >
Subject: Re: [Tigers] back to the battery wood packers

 

I haven?t been focusing on this.  So I might be misunderstanding.  It sounds like Rootes messed up and the tray didn?t exactly fit, and they needed to kludge together a bandaid to get the cars out the door.  And we?ve got dozens of emails going back and forth on this kludge.

 

Reminds me of the show I watched about early Corvette restoration - years ago.  The expert showed how the AC or alternator bracket paint would peel almost immediately after leaving the factory.  So he had perfected that peeling!

 

On the other hand, the wood piece was perhaps one of the most ?human? parts of the car.  All the more reason to honor it.  Though still very funny.

 

Jay

  

 

On Oct 4, 2021, at 10:54 AM, Ron Fraser <rfraser at bluefrog.com <mailto:rfraser at bluefrog.com> > wrote:

 

Under tray wood ? the offset of the body mount holes on my Tiger is 3/16?

I made a cardboard templet per the drawing ? pic #1 ? the offset angle is acceptable to me

 

Pic #2 ? battery tray over the templet ? in my opinion this sticks out too far and at the front area it is tight to the body

I will make and install this piece before I make a judgement call on its length ? this is not a concours Tiger

 

Side wood ? I made a piece per the drawing and I found that my body mount holes are about a 1/16? closer together ? I opened the through holes to make this piece fit better   I made a 2nd piece with the mount holes closer and a better fit

 

I do suggest that anyone making this piece ? check the body mount hole distance carefully and make any needed correction.

You can make 1 mount hole, install with 1 screw and mark exactly where the 2nd hole is located.

 

Now to apply some wood preservative and let them dry ? I?ll install these pieces later this month

 

Ron Fraser

 

 

<100_5041.jpg><100_5042.jpg>_______________________________________________

 <mailto:tigers at autox.team.net> tigers at autox.team.net

Donate:  <http://www.team.net/donate.html> http://www.team.net/donate.html
Archive:  <http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers> http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers  <http://autox.team.net/archive> http://autox.team.net/archive

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From coolvt at aol.com  Mon Oct  4 15:36:57 2021
From: coolvt at aol.com (coolvt at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2021 21:36:57 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Tigers] back to the battery wood packers
In-Reply-To: <006601d7b961$c47a13a0$4d6e3ae0$@mayfco.com>
References: <000c01d7b948$db9f40f0$92ddc2d0$@bluefrog.com>
 <585836A8-2E43-4481-81A1-31A5A4EE70A2@gmail.com>
 <002e01d7b95c$176b8090$464281b0$@bluefrog.com>
 <006601d7b961$c47a13a0$4d6e3ae0$@mayfco.com>
Message-ID: <1127875184.1949507.1633383417388@mail.yahoo.com>

Wonder is there is ever a simple? piece of wood used in a modern car to solve a problem???? ?Would it now? be plastic ??

In a message dated 10/4/2021 4:53:35 PM Eastern Standard Time, tigers at autox.team.net writes:?
I think it was simpler than anyone has brought up. The car was founded on the S4 and S5 Alpines which had the bat box under the parcel shelf (aka rear seat). And the trunk floor was made to a stamping drawing and if it needed to be done differently a new set of dies would have had to have been made ($$$$). Batteries need to sit flat and so a plastic (nylon I think). I believe that originally the rear mounted tray fit the lip on the fame side. That would ?have given the tray a side mount under as well. Bu that use in the position as mentioned below required that it be spaced out a tad. Ok, the skinny long piece of wood behind the tray maintains side clearance for a few pennies. But that left the inside of the box unsupported some so another r piece of cheap wood solved that issue. Nothing strange about money making decisions. All because they needed a place to put the electric fuel pump and that place was under the parcel tray with an access door. ??

?

Smart decisions tome.

?

mayf

?

From: Tigers <tigers-bounces at autox.team.net> On Behalf Of Ron Fraser
Sent: Monday, October 4, 2021 1:12 PM
To: 'Jay' <jay.laifman at gmail.com>
Cc: '<tigers at autox.team.net>' <tigers at Autox.Team.Net>
Subject: Re: [Tigers] back to the battery wood packers

?

Jay

??????????????? I don?t think Rootes messed up.

The trunk floor is not flat, it has a raised sections the battery sets upon.

?

The side wood keeps the battery off the big rubber grommet for the rear spring shackle.

You need 2 Battery Packers was the answer.

?

Besides, How can you have a Proper British Car if it has no wood - ?

?

Ron Fraser

?

From: Jay <jay.laifman at gmail.com> 
Sent: Monday, October 04, 2021 3:49 PM
To: Ron Fraser <rfraser at bluefrog.com>
Cc: <tigers at autox.team.net> <tigers at Autox.Team.Net>
Subject: Re: [Tigers] back to the battery wood packers

?

I haven?t been focusing on this. ?So I might be misunderstanding. ?It sounds like Rootes messed up and the tray didn?t exactly fit, and they needed to kludge together a bandaid to get the cars out the door. ?And we?ve got dozens of emails going back and forth on this kludge.

?

Reminds me of the show I watched about early Corvette restoration - years ago. ?The expert showed how the AC or alternator bracket paint would peel almost immediately after leaving the factory. ?So he had perfected that peeling!

?

On the other hand, the wood piece was perhaps one of the most ?human? parts of the car. ?All the more reason to honor it. ?Though still very funny.

?

Jay

??

?


On Oct 4, 2021, at 10:54 AM, Ron Fraser <rfraser at bluefrog.com> wrote:

?

Under tray wood?? the offset of the body mount holes on my Tiger is 3/16?

I made a cardboard templet per the drawing ? pic #1 ? the offset angle is acceptable to me

?

Pic #2 ? battery tray over the templet ? in my opinion this sticks out too far and at the front area it is tight to the body

I will make and install this piece before I make a judgement call on its length ? this is not a concours Tiger

?

Side wood?? I made a piece per the drawing and I found that my body mount holes are about a 1/16? closer together ? I opened the through holes to make this piece fit better?? I made a 2nd?piece with the mount holes closer and a better fit

?

I do suggest that anyone making this piece ? check the body mount hole distance carefully and make any needed correction.

You can make 1 mount hole, install with 1 screw and mark exactly where the 2nd?hole is located.

?

Now to apply some wood preservative and let them dry ? I?ll install these pieces later this month

?

Ron Fraser

?

?

<100_5041.jpg><100_5042.jpg>_______________________________________________

tigers at autox.team.net

Donate:?http://www.team.net/donate.html
Archive:?http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers?http://autox.team.net/archive

Unsubscribe:?http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/jay.laifman at gmail.com


?
_______________________________________________

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From atwittsend at verizon.net  Mon Oct  4 17:20:37 2021
From: atwittsend at verizon.net (Tom Witt)
Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2021 16:20:37 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] back to the battery wood packers
In-Reply-To: <585836A8-2E43-4481-81A1-31A5A4EE70A2@gmail.com>
References: <000c01d7b948$db9f40f0$92ddc2d0$@bluefrog.com>
 <585836A8-2E43-4481-81A1-31A5A4EE70A2@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <be1b58f1-1d70-4eea-2bcb-d1a357d8284c@verizon.net>

On 10/4/2021 12:48 PM, Jay wrote:

> On the other hand, the wood piece was perhaps one of the most ?human? 
> parts of the car. ?All the more reason to honor it. ?Though still very 
> funny.

Especially for the first 400 or so Tigers. And then they got a "Human" 
dash too. ? So, how long before we see the "correct" battery wood kits 
selling on Ebay for too much?


From rfraser at bluefrog.com  Wed Oct  6 10:24:11 2021
From: rfraser at bluefrog.com (Ron Fraser)
Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2021 12:24:11 -0400
Subject: [Tigers] back to the battery wood packers
Message-ID: <000201d7bace$9971f290$cc55d7b0$@bluefrog.com>

I installed the wood packers I made and as I suspected I needed trim the
bottom wood piece.

 

At the front the wood was riding up on the body ? trimmed ?? so the wood lay
flat

At the rear I did not like all the wood sticking out ? trimmed ?? this now
looks better to me.

 

This not a concours car so it is my choice to do so.

 

I  suggest to anyone making your own pieces:

 

Make 1 mount hole then check the position of the 2nd hole by mounting the
wood piece and marking the other hole position

I had to adjust the 2nd mount hole on my side wood piece, the 2nd mount hole
was about 1/16? closer than the drawing.

 

For the bottom wood you might want to make a practice piece to see how it
fits.

I trimmed my plywood piece, which is 1 option or you could easily move the
mount holes slightly in the wood to adjust its position if needed.

 

I?m just pointing out what I see and experienced on my Tiger, yours may
certainly be different, just be observant.

 

Ron Fraser

 

 

 

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From drmayf at mayfco.com  Wed Oct  6 18:08:14 2021
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (Larry Mayfield)
Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2021 17:08:14 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] Lost parts...
Message-ID: <000401d7bb0f$6da25e20$48e71a60$@mayfco.com>

Repackaging all of my spare used and new or old stock parts and have come up
short on 3 items.  Probably more before I am done. 

I need the BP43 parts, 4 each ( for 2 wheel cylinders or both rear brakes)
plus  that odd looking spring clip that holds it all in place. I actually
have one on them in a box I just taped shut, lol.  but 2 will give me a
spare. total of 6 pieces. 

 

Anyone have these critters they will part with for less than the national
debt?  

 

It all goes onto the OEM rear end that came with this car.  It had developed
a bearing noise, a long time ago 1976ish,  and I had replaced the wheel
bearings but never finished the job. Instead, I obtained a different rear
end , a posi unit and a set of 4.55:1 rear gears and went drag racing for a
short while.   

 

Larry  aka mayf   aka drmayf

Pahrump,NV

 

 

 

 

 



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From jay.laifman at gmail.com  Wed Oct  6 18:19:31 2021
From: jay.laifman at gmail.com (Jay)
Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2021 17:19:31 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] Lost parts...
In-Reply-To: <000401d7bb0f$6da25e20$48e71a60$@mayfco.com>
References: <000401d7bb0f$6da25e20$48e71a60$@mayfco.com>
Message-ID: <4D30DFAC-EE23-4EA4-A9C6-DB315E50E7CD@gmail.com>

You have copies a part of the Sunbeam Specialities catalog.  Are you saying that Rick doesn?t have them?

I do believe that the rear brakes are the same as on TR4s and TR3s.  So if Rick doesn?t have them, you can check those sources too.


> On Oct 6, 2021, at 5:08 PM, Larry Mayfield via Tigers <tigers at autox.team.net> wrote:
> 
> Repackaging all of my spare used and new or old stock parts and have come up short on 3 items.  Probably more before I am done. 
> I need the BP43 parts, 4 each ( for 2 wheel cylinders or both rear brakes) plus  that odd looking spring clip that holds it all in place. I actually have one on them in a box I just taped shut, lol?  but 2 will give me a spare? total of 6 pieces? 
>  
> Anyone have these critters they will part with for less than the national debt?  
>  
> It all goes onto the OEM rear end that came with this car.  It had developed a bearing noise, a long time ago 1976ish,  and I had replaced the wheel bearings but never finished the job. Instead, I obtained a different rear end , a posi unit and a set of 4.55:1 rear gears and went drag racing for a short while.   
>  
> Larry  aka mayf   aka drmayf
> Pahrump,NV
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  
> <image001.png>
> _______________________________________________
> 
> tigers at autox.team.net <mailto:tigers at autox.team.net>
> 
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html <http://www.team.net/donate.html>
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> 
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From srwick at hotmail.com  Wed Oct  6 22:08:38 2021
From: srwick at hotmail.com (steve wick)
Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2021 04:08:38 +0000
Subject: [Tigers] Lost parts...
In-Reply-To: <4D30DFAC-EE23-4EA4-A9C6-DB315E50E7CD@gmail.com>
References: <000401d7bb0f$6da25e20$48e71a60$@mayfco.com>
 <4D30DFAC-EE23-4EA4-A9C6-DB315E50E7CD@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <SA1PR06MB8356C16D7F3491F9AD4DDBB9D8B19@SA1PR06MB8356.namprd06.prod.outlook.com>

Nope. I was missing one side for my brakes and was told the same thing a couple of years ago, by this group. I ordered the locking plates for both sides from Moss motors and then found out they don't fit at all. Moss Motors wouldn't take them back either. I still have them around here somewhere, in case I run into someone with a TR that needs them.

[cid:c34ea5f0-ef80-4f2e-a98f-08dfb4c83109]

Steve
________________________________
From: Tigers <tigers-bounces at autox.team.net> on behalf of Jay via Tigers <tigers at autox.team.net>
Sent: Wednesday, October 6, 2021 5:19 PM
To: Larry Mayfield <drmayf at mayfco.com>
Cc: <tigers at autox.team.net> <tigers at Autox.Team.Net>
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Lost parts...

You have copies a part of the Sunbeam Specialities catalog.  Are you saying that Rick doesn?t have them?

I do believe that the rear brakes are the same as on TR4s and TR3s.  So if Rick doesn?t have them, you can check those sources too.


On Oct 6, 2021, at 5:08 PM, Larry Mayfield via Tigers <tigers at autox.team.net<mailto:tigers at autox.team.net>> wrote:

Repackaging all of my spare used and new or old stock parts and have come up short on 3 items.  Probably more before I am done.
I need the BP43 parts, 4 each ( for 2 wheel cylinders or both rear brakes) plus  that odd looking spring clip that holds it all in place. I actually have one on them in a box I just taped shut, lol?  but 2 will give me a spare? total of 6 pieces?

Anyone have these critters they will part with for less than the national debt?

It all goes onto the OEM rear end that came with this car.  It had developed a bearing noise, a long time ago 1976ish,  and I had replaced the wheel bearings but never finished the job. Instead, I obtained a different rear end , a posi unit and a set of 4.55:1 rear gears and went drag racing for a short while.

Larry  aka mayf   aka drmayf
Pahrump,NV





<image001.png>
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From cbowland at msn.com  Thu Oct  7 11:03:58 2021
From: cbowland at msn.com (Curt Bowland)
Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2021 17:03:58 +0000
Subject: [Tigers] Martha Christianson
Message-ID: <BN7PR07MB46600BF9E7F927C1FEFC1F0BDBB19@BN7PR07MB4660.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>

I have several questions regarding Martha. Is she still doing Tiger interiors? Most current contact information. Please reply to me at cbowland at msn.com . Thanks for any information you may have.

Curt in Chicago
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From jay.laifman at gmail.com  Thu Oct  7 11:28:25 2021
From: jay.laifman at gmail.com (Jay)
Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2021 10:28:25 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] Martha Christianson
In-Reply-To: <BN7PR07MB46600BF9E7F927C1FEFC1F0BDBB19@BN7PR07MB4660.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>
References: <BN7PR07MB46600BF9E7F927C1FEFC1F0BDBB19@BN7PR07MB4660.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <36C88B23-80FB-4EED-B380-B4EACB7FEC62@gmail.com>

You could check with Rick.  I think he gets interiors from her - and doesn?t charge more.  At least that is what used to be.

As an aside, I got an interior from Martha 20 years ago.  I sent her all the stuff, including the metal edging that is supposed to go along the bottom of the GT doors (really nice unrusted ones).  I was careful to tape them to a piece of wood so that the wouldn?t bend.  Sadly, Martha apparently didn?t notice them taped there and they disappeared.  This was for my S3 Alpine GT.  I actually like the ST doors better - so I just did the doors as ST doors instead.  One day maybe I?ll make them GT - but probably not.



> On Oct 7, 2021, at 10:03 AM, Curt Bowland via Tigers <tigers at autox.team.net> wrote:
> 
> I have several questions regarding Martha. Is she still doing Tiger interiors? Most current contact information. Please reply to me at cbowland at msn.com <mailto:cbowland at msn.com> . Thanks for any information you may have.
> 
> Curt in Chicago
> _______________________________________________
> 
> tigers at autox.team.net <mailto:tigers at autox.team.net>
> 
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html <http://www.team.net/donate.html>
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From jbbrown1980 at gmail.com  Thu Oct  7 14:05:06 2021
From: jbbrown1980 at gmail.com (Joe Brown)
Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2021 15:05:06 -0500
Subject: [Tigers] Martha Christianson
In-Reply-To: <BN7PR07MB46600BF9E7F927C1FEFC1F0BDBB19@BN7PR07MB4660.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>
References: <BN7PR07MB46600BF9E7F927C1FEFC1F0BDBB19@BN7PR07MB4660.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <CAKb_wfmb-mMmuRssdXfr4vtc_DB75RRUdxvhtwV9YLw-GkQXyA@mail.gmail.com>

I got my red interior from her about 6 years ago.  Her email was
proprep3716 at sbcglobal.net and her phone number was 775-833-1948.

On Thu, Oct 7, 2021 at 12:16 PM Curt Bowland via Tigers <
tigers at autox.team.net> wrote:

> I have several questions regarding Martha. Is she still doing Tiger
> interiors? Most current contact information. Please reply to me at
> cbowland at msn.com . Thanks for any information you may have.
>
> Curt in Chicago
> _______________________________________________
>
> tigers at autox.team.net
>
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers
> http://autox.team.net/archive
>
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> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/jbbrown1980 at gmail.com
>
>
>
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From drmayf at mayfco.com  Thu Oct  7 14:40:33 2021
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (Larry Mayfield)
Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2021 13:40:33 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] Lost parts...
In-Reply-To: <4D30DFAC-EE23-4EA4-A9C6-DB315E50E7CD@gmail.com>
References: <000401d7bb0f$6da25e20$48e71a60$@mayfco.com>
 <4D30DFAC-EE23-4EA4-A9C6-DB315E50E7CD@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <001201d7bbbb$954c4100$bfe4c300$@mayfco.com>

I didn?t say anything about availability at SS. I used the picture from the catalog to describe what I was looking for.  In the process I looked to see if there was a pn for the pieces and no part number exists for that number as being sold.  I understand that there is a newer system that only has 2 parts instead of three. Tome Hall mentioned that.   I f necessary when time comes, I will make some clips and lockwire them in place.  

 

Larry 

 

From: Jay <jay.laifman at gmail.com> 
Sent: Wednesday, October 6, 2021 5:20 PM
To: Larry Mayfield <drmayf at mayfco.com>
Cc: <tigers at autox.team.net> <tigers at Autox.Team.Net>
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Lost parts...

 

You have copies a part of the Sunbeam Specialities catalog.  Are you saying that Rick doesn?t have them?

 

I do believe that the rear brakes are the same as on TR4s and TR3s.  So if Rick doesn?t have them, you can check those sources too.

 





On Oct 6, 2021, at 5:08 PM, Larry Mayfield via Tigers <tigers at autox.team.net <mailto:tigers at autox.team.net> > wrote:

 

Repackaging all of my spare used and new or old stock parts and have come up short on 3 items.  Probably more before I am done. 

I need the BP43 parts, 4 each ( for 2 wheel cylinders or both rear brakes) plus  that odd looking spring clip that holds it all in place. I actually have one on them in a box I just taped shut, lol?  but 2 will give me a spare? total of 6 pieces? 

 

Anyone have these critters they will part with for less than the national debt?  

 

It all goes onto the OEM rear end that came with this car.  It had developed a bearing noise, a long time ago 1976ish,  and I had replaced the wheel bearings but never finished the job. Instead, I obtained a different rear end , a posi unit and a set of 4.55:1 rear gears and went drag racing for a short while.   

 

Larry  aka mayf   aka drmayf

Pahrump,NV

 

 

 

 

 

<image001.png>

_______________________________________________

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From cbowland at msn.com  Thu Oct  7 17:18:17 2021
From: cbowland at msn.com (Curt Bowland)
Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2021 23:18:17 +0000
Subject: [Tigers] Re Martha
Message-ID: <BN7PR07MB466010EB023E177285EB3FF6DBB19@BN7PR07MB4660.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>

A grateful thanks to the response to my request.

Curt
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From jimdamelio at verizon.net  Fri Oct  8 07:52:01 2021
From: jimdamelio at verizon.net (jimdamelio)
Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2021 09:52:01 -0400
Subject: [Tigers] Tiger PCV Adapter
Message-ID: <mailman.34.1633701126.5552.tigers@autox.team.net>

I've attached two pictures and was wondering if this is the same adapter Rootes used on the Tiger.? The early parts book lists the Ford # as 378754.? The Mustang supplier's sell the pictured one for big block cars. Anyone still have their original.Jim DSent from my Galaxy
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From Tigers at embarqmail.com  Fri Oct  8 09:21:16 2021
From: Tigers at embarqmail.com (Will Seay)
Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2021 11:21:16 -0400
Subject: [Tigers] Tiger PCV Adapter
In-Reply-To: <20211008135620.A4EE4A14A6@autox.team.net>
References: <20211008135620.A4EE4A14A6@autox.team.net>
Message-ID: <CAMRx0hZ3gtK27p0uzzCvzvLzTX3Meh_XVe4Y8zKUmE0UzhhJow@mail.gmail.com>

Jim,

I'm pretty sure that only the MK1 had the right-angle adapter.  I believe
that the MK1A (B19KC engine) just had a bend in the hose.

Will - 382001570
Tigers at embarqmail.com


On Fri, Oct 8, 2021 at 9:52 AM jimdamelio via Tigers <tigers at autox.team.net>
wrote:

> I've attached two pictures and was wondering if this is the same adapter
> Rootes used on the Tiger.  The early parts book lists the Ford # as
> 378754.  The Mustang supplier's sell the pictured one for big block cars.
> Anyone still have their original.
>
> Jim D
>
>
> Sent from my Galaxy
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> tigers at autox.team.net
>
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers
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>
>
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From orr4sale at sbcglobal.net  Fri Oct  8 09:36:04 2021
From: orr4sale at sbcglobal.net (D or G at sbc)
Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2021 15:36:04 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Tigers] Tiger PCV Adapter
In-Reply-To: <CAMRx0hZ3gtK27p0uzzCvzvLzTX3Meh_XVe4Y8zKUmE0UzhhJow@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20211008135620.A4EE4A14A6@autox.team.net>
 <CAMRx0hZ3gtK27p0uzzCvzvLzTX3Meh_XVe4Y8zKUmE0UzhhJow@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2058611627.404726.1633707364111@mail.yahoo.com>

 The MKll doesn't use the adapter and has a different PCV valve & hose. The adapter is Ford # 378754-S.That reproduction will work, but isn't an exact concours reproduction. I don't have an original handy for a picture, most Tigers should still have their original adapter.
David Franchi

    On Friday, October 8, 2021, 08:22:39 AM PDT, Will Seay via Tigers <tigers at autox.team.net> wrote:  
 
 Jim,
I'm pretty sure that only the MK1 had the right-angle adapter.? I believe that the MK1A (B19KC engine) just had a bend in the hose.??
Will - 382001570 
Tigers at embarqmail.com

On Fri, Oct 8, 2021 at 9:52 AM jimdamelio via Tigers <tigers at autox.team.net> wrote:

I've attached two pictures and was wondering if this is the same adapter Rootes used on the Tiger.? The early parts book lists the Ford # as 378754.? The Mustang supplier's sell the pictured one for big block cars. Anyone still have their original.
Jim D

Sent from my Galaxy
_______________________________________________

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From kenfirch at yahoo.com  Fri Oct  8 09:37:24 2021
From: kenfirch at yahoo.com (Firch Ken)
Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2021 15:37:24 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Tigers] Tiger PCV Adapter
In-Reply-To: <CAMRx0hZ3gtK27p0uzzCvzvLzTX3Meh_XVe4Y8zKUmE0UzhhJow@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20211008135620.A4EE4A14A6@autox.team.net>
 <CAMRx0hZ3gtK27p0uzzCvzvLzTX3Meh_XVe4Y8zKUmE0UzhhJow@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <631174940.576721.1633707444811@mail.yahoo.com>

 He's a couple pics of the one on my Mk1. ?I think it's the original, looks 90? to me.
Ken
    On Friday, October 8, 2021, 08:22:37 AM PDT, Will Seay via Tigers <tigers at autox.team.net> wrote:  
 
 Jim,
I'm pretty sure that only the MK1 had the right-angle adapter.? I believe that the MK1A (B19KC engine) just had a bend in the hose.??
Will - 382001570 
Tigers at embarqmail.com

On Fri, Oct 8, 2021 at 9:52 AM jimdamelio via Tigers <tigers at autox.team.net> wrote:

I've attached two pictures and was wondering if this is the same adapter Rootes used on the Tiger.? The early parts book lists the Ford # as 378754.? The Mustang supplier's sell the pictured one for big block cars. Anyone still have their original.
Jim D

Sent from my Galaxy
_______________________________________________

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From jimdamelio at verizon.net  Fri Oct  8 09:46:33 2021
From: jimdamelio at verizon.net (jimdamelio)
Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2021 11:46:33 -0400
Subject: [Tigers] Tiger PCV Adapter
In-Reply-To: <CAMRx0hZ3gtK27p0uzzCvzvLzTX3Meh_XVe4Y8zKUmE0UzhhJow@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <mailman.35.1633707996.5552.tigers@autox.team.net>

My MKIA 1679 had the bent hose type, but it was 11 years old when I got it.? Don't know if the PO changed it. The parts book lists the MKI and MKII as having the adaptor type, but I was sure the MKII had the hose type.Sent from my Galaxy
-------- Original message --------From: Will Seay <Tigers at embarqmail.com> Date: 10/8/21  11:21 AM  (GMT-05:00) To: jimdamelio <jimdamelio at verizon.net> Cc: Tiger Server <tigers at autox.team.net> Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tiger PCV Adapter Jim,I'm pretty sure that only the MK1 had the right-angle adapter.? I believe that the MK1A (B19KC engine) just had a bend in the hose.??Will - 382001570 Tigers at embarqmail.comOn Fri, Oct 8, 2021 at 9:52 AM jimdamelio via Tigers <tigers at autox.team.net> wrote:I've attached two pictures and was wondering if this is the same adapter Rootes used on the Tiger.? The early parts book lists the Ford # as 378754.? The Mustang supplier's sell the pictured one for big block cars. Anyone still have their original.Jim DSent from my Galaxy_______________________________________________

tigers at autox.team.net

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From rfraser at bluefrog.com  Fri Oct  8 09:56:14 2021
From: rfraser at bluefrog.com (Ron Fraser)
Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2021 11:56:14 -0400
Subject: [Tigers] Tiger PCV Adapter
In-Reply-To: <20211008135642.0A3A5A14E0@autox.team.net>
References: <20211008135642.0A3A5A14E0@autox.team.net>
Message-ID: <001a01d7bc5d$06a1b3c0$13e51b40$@bluefrog.com>

The short answer is NO.  This picture is from Bob Mannel?s book pg. 4-41.

 

The PCV valve threads into the Adaptor.

The pictures you sent ? that part could work but not original or correct for the Tiger engine.

I don?t believe the original Adaptor is available ? it is obsolete.

 

Ford fazed the brass Adaptor part out as a cost reduction, replaced by the PCV hose with 2 right angles in 1965.

It is curious that even the MK II Part List shows this Adaptor.  MK II does not use the brass Adaptor part.

 

I do not know when this change took place on the Tiger engine but my F21KA engine has the 2 right angle PCV hose.

 

Ron Fraser

 

From: Tigers <tigers-bounces at autox.team.net> On Behalf Of jimdamelio via Tigers
Sent: Friday, October 08, 2021 9:52 AM
To: tigers at autox.team.net
Subject: [Tigers] Tiger PCV Adapter

 

I've attached two pictures and was wondering if this is the same adapter Rootes used on the Tiger.  The early parts book lists the Ford # as 378754.  The Mustang supplier's sell the pictured one for big block cars. Anyone still have their original.

 

Jim D

 

 

Sent from my Galaxy

 

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From jimdamelio at verizon.net  Fri Oct  8 10:56:17 2021
From: jimdamelio at verizon.net (jimdamelio)
Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2021 12:56:17 -0400
Subject: [Tigers] Tiger PCV Adapter
In-Reply-To: <001a01d7bc5d$06a1b3c0$13e51b40$@bluefrog.com>
Message-ID: <mailman.36.1633712179.5552.tigers@autox.team.net>

Thanks for all the responses.? I know what's original now.Sent from my Galaxy
-------- Original message --------From: Ron Fraser <rfraser at bluefrog.com> Date: 10/8/21  11:56 AM  (GMT-05:00) To: 'jimdamelio' <jimdamelio at verizon.net> Cc: tigers at Autox.Team.Net Subject: RE: [Tigers] Tiger PCV Adapter The short answer is NO.? This picture is from Bob Mannel?s book pg. 4-41.?The PCV valve threads into the Adaptor.The pictures you sent ? that part could work but not original or correct for the Tiger engine.I don?t believe the original Adaptor is available ? it is obsolete.?Ford fazed the brass Adaptor part out as a cost reduction, replaced by the PCV hose with 2 right angles in 1965.It is curious that even the MK II Part List shows this Adaptor.? MK II does not use the brass Adaptor part.?I do not know when this change took place on the Tiger engine but my F21KA engine has the 2 right angle PCV hose.?Ron Fraser?From: Tigers <tigers-bounces at autox.team.net> On Behalf Of jimdamelio via TigersSent: Friday, October 08, 2021 9:52 AMTo: tigers at autox.team.netSubject: [Tigers] Tiger PCV Adapter?I've attached two pictures and was wondering if this is the same adapter Rootes used on the Tiger.? The early parts book lists the Ford # as 378754.? The Mustang supplier's sell the pictured one for big block cars. Anyone still have their original.?Jim D??Sent from my Galaxy?
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From rfraser at bluefrog.com  Fri Oct  8 11:07:33 2021
From: rfraser at bluefrog.com (Ron Fraser)
Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2021 13:07:33 -0400
Subject: [Tigers] Tiger PCV Adapter
In-Reply-To: <001a01d7bc5d$06a1b3c0$13e51b40$@bluefrog.com>
References: <20211008135642.0A3A5A14E0@autox.team.net>
 <001a01d7bc5d$06a1b3c0$13e51b40$@bluefrog.com>
Message-ID: <003301d7bc66$fd030a80$f7091f80$@bluefrog.com>



 

Here is a photo from Brian Nickels of an original Adaptor and PCV valve.

 

Early PCV valves were threaded style, you could disassemble them for cleaning ? later style, 1965 versions, had a hose fitting.

Early PCV hose had 1 right angle bend ? later style the hose had 2 right angle bends.

 

Ron Fraser

 

From: Tigers <tigers-bounces at autox.team.net> On Behalf Of Ron Fraser
Sent: Friday, October 08, 2021 11:56 AM
To: 'jimdamelio' <jimdamelio at verizon.net>
Cc: tigers at Autox.Team.Net
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tiger PCV Adapter

 

The short answer is NO.  This picture is from Bob Mannel?s book pg. 4-41.

 

The PCV valve threads into the Adaptor.

The pictures you sent ? that part could work but not original or correct for the Tiger engine.

I don?t believe the original Adaptor is available ? it is obsolete.

 

Ford fazed the brass Adaptor part out as a cost reduction, replaced by the PCV hose with 2 right angles in 1965.

It is curious that even the MK II Part List shows this Adaptor.  MK II does not use the brass Adaptor part.

 

I do not know when this change took place on the Tiger engine but my F21KA engine has the 2 right angle PCV hose.

 

Ron Fraser

 

From: Tigers <tigers-bounces at autox.team.net <mailto:tigers-bounces at autox.team.net> > On Behalf Of jimdamelio via Tigers
Sent: Friday, October 08, 2021 9:52 AM
To: tigers at autox.team.net <mailto:tigers at autox.team.net> 
Subject: [Tigers] Tiger PCV Adapter

 

I've attached two pictures and was wondering if this is the same adapter Rootes used on the Tiger.  The early parts book lists the Ford # as 378754.  The Mustang supplier's sell the pictured one for big block cars. Anyone still have their original.

 

Jim D

 

 

Sent from my Galaxy

 

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From aballard at ix.netcom.com  Fri Oct  8 11:25:46 2021
From: aballard at ix.netcom.com (Allan Ballard)
Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2021 13:25:46 -0400
Subject: [Tigers] Tiger PCV Adapter
In-Reply-To: <20211008165717.2F6ACA1453@autox.team.net>
References: <20211008165717.2F6ACA1453@autox.team.net>
Message-ID: <07D560AF-6501-4EC9-BCF2-0850A6F127F3@ix.netcom.com>

My crossover Mk1a  B382??91 came to me with the adaptor. 

I am the 2nd owner and have no info whether the prior owner made changes.

Any changes were made pre-1980 which is when the car entered long term storage.

Allan Ballard
-Mk1a
-Series I Alpine (V6)


> On Oct 8, 2021, at 12:56 PM, jimdamelio via Tigers <tigers at autox.team.net> wrote:
> 
> Thanks for all the responses.  I know what's original now.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my Galaxy
> 
> 
> -------- Original message --------
> From: Ron Fraser <rfraser at bluefrog.com>
> Date: 10/8/21 11:56 AM (GMT-05:00)
> To: 'jimdamelio' <jimdamelio at verizon.net>
> Cc: tigers at Autox.Team.Net
> Subject: RE: [Tigers] Tiger PCV Adapter
> 
> The short answer is NO.  This picture is from Bob Mannel?s book pg. 4-41.
> 
>  
> The PCV valve threads into the Adaptor.
> 
> The pictures you sent ? that part could work but not original or correct for the Tiger engine.
> 
> I don?t believe the original Adaptor is available ? it is obsolete.
> 
>  
> Ford fazed the brass Adaptor part out as a cost reduction, replaced by the PCV hose with 2 right angles in 1965.
> 
> It is curious that even the MK II Part List shows this Adaptor.  MK II does not use the brass Adaptor part.
> 
>  
> I do not know when this change took place on the Tiger engine but my F21KA engine has the 2 right angle PCV hose.
> 
>  
> Ron Fraser
> 
>  
> From: Tigers <tigers-bounces at autox.team.net> On Behalf Of jimdamelio via Tigers
> Sent: Friday, October 08, 2021 9:52 AM
> To: tigers at autox.team.net
> Subject: [Tigers] Tiger PCV Adapter
> 
>  
> I've attached two pictures and was wondering if this is the same adapter Rootes used on the Tiger.  The early parts book lists the Ford # as 378754.  The Mustang supplier's sell the pictured one for big block cars. Anyone still have their original.
> 
>  
> Jim D
> 
>  
>  
> Sent from my Galaxy
> 
>  
> _______________________________________________
> 
> tigers at autox.team.net
> 
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive
> 
> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/aballard at ix.netcom.com
> 
> 

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From rfraser at bluefrog.com  Fri Oct  8 12:02:33 2021
From: rfraser at bluefrog.com (Ron Fraser)
Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2021 14:02:33 -0400
Subject: [Tigers] Tiger PCV Adapter
In-Reply-To: <07D560AF-6501-4EC9-BCF2-0850A6F127F3@ix.netcom.com>
References: <20211008165717.2F6ACA1453@autox.team.net>
 <07D560AF-6501-4EC9-BCF2-0850A6F127F3@ix.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <004201d7bc6e$abe27b10$03a77130$@bluefrog.com>

This is a question that is not part of my Original Tiger engine study.

I don?t know if the later style PCV is original to my engine.   I only know this it is as purchased, I?m the 4th owner.

 

Did Ford stock pile these adaptors for the Tiger engine build, well maybe.

If so it is a very good question as to when the change was made to the later style PCV valve and hose.

 

The Parts List is no help because it lists changes by Vin #, Ford made changes by engine #.

The PCV Adaptor is listed for all Tiger engines ? no help there for when this part was changed.

 

The only way to understand when this change happened is by Ford engine # or with period photos of the 60?s that at least indicate a Vin # to give us a reference point.

 

Original Tiger Engine Study is online on the TE/AE web site.

It has been online since April 2021, there are only 13 entries.  I had hoped for many more by now.

This is an easy questionnaire, no engine tear down required unless you want to. 

Please participate.

Thanks

 

Ron Fraser

 

 

 

From: Allan Ballard <aballard at ix.netcom.com> 
Sent: Friday, October 08, 2021 1:26 PM
To: jimdamelio <jimdamelio at verizon.net>
Cc: Ron Fraser <rfraser at bluefrog.com>; Tiger List List <tigers at Autox.Team.Net>
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tiger PCV Adapter

 

My crossover Mk1a  B382??91 came to me with the adaptor. 

 

I am the 2nd owner and have no info whether the prior owner made changes.

 

Any changes were made pre-1980 which is when the car entered long term storage.

 

Allan Ballard

-Mk1a

-Series I Alpine (V6)

 





On Oct 8, 2021, at 12:56 PM, jimdamelio via Tigers <tigers at autox.team.net <mailto:tigers at autox.team.net> > wrote:

 

Thanks for all the responses.  I know what's original now.

 

 

 

Sent from my Galaxy

 

 

-------- Original message --------

From: Ron Fraser <rfraser at bluefrog.com <mailto:rfraser at bluefrog.com> > 

Date: 10/8/21 11:56 AM (GMT-05:00) 

To: 'jimdamelio' <jimdamelio at verizon.net <mailto:jimdamelio at verizon.net> > 

Cc: tigers at Autox.Team.Net <mailto:tigers at Autox.Team.Net>  

Subject: RE: [Tigers] Tiger PCV Adapter 

 

The short answer is NO.  This picture is from Bob Mannel?s book pg. 4-41.

 

The PCV valve threads into the Adaptor.

The pictures you sent ? that part could work but not original or correct for the Tiger engine.

I don?t believe the original Adaptor is available ? it is obsolete.

 

Ford fazed the brass Adaptor part out as a cost reduction, replaced by the PCV hose with 2 right angles in 1965.

It is curious that even the MK II Part List shows this Adaptor.  MK II does not use the brass Adaptor part.

 

I do not know when this change took place on the Tiger engine but my F21KA engine has the 2 right angle PCV hose.

 

Ron Fraser

 

From: Tigers <tigers-bounces at autox.team.net <mailto:tigers-bounces at autox.team.net> > On Behalf Of jimdamelio via Tigers
Sent: Friday, October 08, 2021 9:52 AM
To: tigers at autox.team.net <mailto:tigers at autox.team.net> 
Subject: [Tigers] Tiger PCV Adapter

 

I've attached two pictures and was wondering if this is the same adapter Rootes used on the Tiger.  The early parts book lists the Ford # as 378754.  The Mustang supplier's sell the pictured one for big block cars. Anyone still have their original.

 

Jim D

 

 

Sent from my Galaxy

 

_______________________________________________

tigers at autox.team.net <mailto:tigers at autox.team.net> 

Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive

Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/aballard at ix.netcom.com



 

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From orr4sale at sbcglobal.net  Fri Oct  8 12:33:10 2021
From: orr4sale at sbcglobal.net (D or G at sbc)
Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2021 18:33:10 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Tigers] Tiger PCV Adapter
In-Reply-To: <004201d7bc6e$abe27b10$03a77130$@bluefrog.com>
References: <20211008165717.2F6ACA1453@autox.team.net>
 <07D560AF-6501-4EC9-BCF2-0850A6F127F3@ix.netcom.com>
 <004201d7bc6e$abe27b10$03a77130$@bluefrog.com>
Message-ID: <1841889572.435589.1633717990988@mail.yahoo.com>

 I was buying and selling Tiger parts in 1978 and this brass angle fitting was obsolete from Ford then. 
I believe the brass angle fitting was made by Weatherhead.

I am 90% sure that all the 260 MKI Tigers had the angle fitting PCV adapter, and it was changed with the 289 MKII Tiger.
As I side note: The MKI & MKII Tigers used AC Delco PCV valves, not Ford/Motorcraft.
David Franchi

    On Friday, October 8, 2021, 11:09:53 AM PDT, Ron Fraser <rfraser at bluefrog.com> wrote:  
 
 
This is a question that is not part of my Original Tiger engine study.

I don?t know if the later style PCV is original to my engine.?? I only know this it is as purchased, I?m the 4th owner.

 ?

Did Ford stock pile these adaptors for the Tiger engine build, well maybe.

If so it is a very good question as to when the change was made to the later style PCV valve and hose.

 ?

The Parts List is no help because it lists changes by Vin #, Ford made changes by engine #.

The PCV Adaptor is listed for all Tiger engines ? no help there for when this part was changed.

 ?

The only way to understand when this change happened is by Ford engine # or with period photos of the 60?s that at least indicate a Vin # to give us a reference point.

 ?

Original Tiger Engine Study is online on the TE/AE web site.

It has been online since April 2021, there are only 13 entries.? I had hoped for many more by now.

This is an easy questionnaire, no engine tear down required unless you want to. 

Please participate.

Thanks

 ?

Ron Fraser

 ?

 ?

 ?

From: Allan Ballard <aballard at ix.netcom.com> 
Sent: Friday, October 08, 2021 1:26 PM
To: jimdamelio <jimdamelio at verizon.net>
Cc: Ron Fraser <rfraser at bluefrog.com>; Tiger List List <tigers at Autox.Team.Net>
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tiger PCV Adapter

 ?

My crossover Mk1a ?B382??91 came to me with the adaptor.?

 ?

I am the 2nd owner and have no info whether the prior owner made changes.

 ?

Any changes were made pre-1980 which is when the car entered long term storage.

 ?

Allan Ballard

-Mk1a

-Series I Alpine (V6)

 ?






On Oct 8, 2021, at 12:56 PM, jimdamelio via Tigers <tigers at autox.team.net> wrote:

 ?

Thanks for all the responses.? I know what's original now.

 ?

 ?

 ?

Sent from my Galaxy

 ?

 ?

-------- Original message --------

From: Ron Fraser <rfraser at bluefrog.com> 

Date: 10/8/21 11:56 AM (GMT-05:00) 

To: 'jimdamelio' <jimdamelio at verizon.net> 

Cc: tigers at Autox.Team.Net 

Subject: RE: [Tigers] Tiger PCV Adapter 

 ?

The short answer is NO.? This picture is from Bob Mannel?s book pg. 4-41.

?

The PCV valve threads into the Adaptor.

The pictures you sent ? that part could work but not original or correct for the Tiger engine.

I don?t believe the original Adaptor is available ? it is obsolete.

?

Ford fazed the brass Adaptor part out as a cost reduction, replaced by the PCV hose with 2 right angles in 1965.

It is curious that even the MK II Part List shows this Adaptor.? MK II does not use the brass Adaptor part.

?

I do not know when this change took place on the Tiger engine but my F21KA engine has the 2 right angle PCV hose.

?

Ron Fraser

?

From: Tigers <tigers-bounces at autox.team.net> On Behalf Of jimdamelio via Tigers
Sent: Friday, October 08, 2021 9:52 AM
To: tigers at autox.team.net
Subject: [Tigers] Tiger PCV Adapter

?

I've attached two pictures and was wondering if this is the same adapter Rootes used on the Tiger.? The early parts book lists the Ford # as 378754.? The Mustang supplier's sell the pictured one for big block cars. Anyone still have their original.

?

Jim D

?

?

Sent from my Galaxy

?

_______________________________________________

tigers at autox.team.net

Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive

Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/aballard at ix.netcom.com




 ?
_______________________________________________

tigers at autox.team.net

Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive

Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/orr4sale at sbcglobal.net


  
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From rfraser at bluefrog.com  Fri Oct  8 13:05:23 2021
From: rfraser at bluefrog.com (Ron Fraser)
Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2021 15:05:23 -0400
Subject: [Tigers] Tiger PCV Adapter
In-Reply-To: <1841889572.435589.1633717990988@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20211008165717.2F6ACA1453@autox.team.net>
 <07D560AF-6501-4EC9-BCF2-0850A6F127F3@ix.netcom.com>
 <004201d7bc6e$abe27b10$03a77130$@bluefrog.com>
 <1841889572.435589.1633717990988@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <005001d7bc77$734b3e00$59e1ba00$@bluefrog.com>

David

                As I side note: The MKI & MKII Tigers used AC Delco PCV valves, not Ford/Motorcraft.

That seems very strange.   The Parts Lists only indicates a Ford Part number.

It would be interesting if anyone can confirm an AC Delco part with a photo.

 

I agree the brass adaptor was probably made by Weatherhead.

There is a repeated symbol on this part ? photo by Ken Firch ? it should be the suppliers Logo.

 

I have a 1990 Weathehead catalog and they do show that symbol ? W with an arrow through it.

 

Ron Fraser

 

From: D or G at sbc <orr4sale at sbcglobal.net> 
Sent: Friday, October 08, 2021 2:33 PM
To: 'Allan Ballard' <aballard at ix.netcom.com>; 'jimdamelio' <jimdamelio at verizon.net>; Ron Fraser <rfraser at bluefrog.com>
Cc: 'Tiger List List' <tigers at autox.team.net>
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tiger PCV Adapter

 

I was buying and selling Tiger parts in 1978 and this brass angle fitting was obsolete from Ford then. 

I believe the brass angle fitting was made by Weatherhead.

 

I am 90% sure that all the 260 MKI Tigers had the angle fitting PCV adapter, and it was changed with the 289 MKII Tiger.

 

As I side note: The MKI & MKII Tigers used AC Delco PCV valves, not Ford/Motorcraft.

 

David Franchi

 

 

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From orr4sale at sbcglobal.net  Fri Oct  8 13:09:04 2021
From: orr4sale at sbcglobal.net (D or G at sbc)
Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2021 19:09:04 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Tigers] Tiger PCV Adapter
In-Reply-To: <005001d7bc77$734b3e00$59e1ba00$@bluefrog.com>
References: <20211008165717.2F6ACA1453@autox.team.net>
 <07D560AF-6501-4EC9-BCF2-0850A6F127F3@ix.netcom.com>
 <004201d7bc6e$abe27b10$03a77130$@bluefrog.com>
 <1841889572.435589.1633717990988@mail.yahoo.com>
 <005001d7bc77$734b3e00$59e1ba00$@bluefrog.com>
Message-ID: <263298147.447005.1633720144142@mail.yahoo.com>

 Ron, I have them, will dig them out, they have AC Delco and Ford numbers on them.
David

    On Friday, October 8, 2021, 12:05:32 PM PDT, Ron Fraser <rfraser at bluefrog.com> wrote:  
 
 
David

??????????????? As I side note: The MKI & MKII Tigers used AC Delco PCV valves, not Ford/Motorcraft.

That seems very strange.?? The Parts Lists only indicates a Ford Part number.

It would be interesting if anyone can confirm an AC Delco part with a photo.

 ?

I agree the brass adaptor was probably made by Weatherhead.

There is a repeated symbol on this part ? photo by Ken Firch ? it should be the suppliers Logo.

 ?

I have a 1990 Weathehead catalog and they do show that symbol ? W with an arrow through it.

 ?

Ron Fraser

 ?

From: D or G at sbc <orr4sale at sbcglobal.net> 
Sent: Friday, October 08, 2021 2:33 PM
To: 'Allan Ballard' <aballard at ix.netcom.com>; 'jimdamelio' <jimdamelio at verizon.net>; Ron Fraser <rfraser at bluefrog.com>
Cc: 'Tiger List List' <tigers at autox.team.net>
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tiger PCV Adapter

 ?

I was buying and selling Tiger parts in 1978 and this brass angle fitting was obsolete from Ford then. 

I believe the brass angle fitting was made by Weatherhead.

 ?

I am 90% sure that all the 260 MKI Tigers had the angle fitting PCV adapter, and it was changed with the 289 MKII Tiger.

 ?

As I side note: The MKI & MKII Tigers used AC Delco PCV valves, not Ford/Motorcraft.

 ?

David Franchi

 ?

 ?
  
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From rfraser at bluefrog.com  Fri Oct  8 13:16:39 2021
From: rfraser at bluefrog.com (Ron Fraser)
Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2021 15:16:39 -0400
Subject: [Tigers] Tiger PCV Adapter
In-Reply-To: <263298147.447005.1633720144142@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20211008165717.2F6ACA1453@autox.team.net>
 <07D560AF-6501-4EC9-BCF2-0850A6F127F3@ix.netcom.com>
 <004201d7bc6e$abe27b10$03a77130$@bluefrog.com>
 <1841889572.435589.1633717990988@mail.yahoo.com>
 <005001d7bc77$734b3e00$59e1ba00$@bluefrog.com>
 <263298147.447005.1633720144142@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <005d01d7bc79$0679f6c0$136de440$@bluefrog.com>

Excellent!  That is very interesting.

 

Ron Fraser

 

From: D or G at sbc <orr4sale at sbcglobal.net> 
Sent: Friday, October 08, 2021 3:09 PM
To: 'Allan Ballard' <aballard at ix.netcom.com>; 'jimdamelio' <jimdamelio at verizon.net>; Ron Fraser <rfraser at bluefrog.com>
Cc: 'Tiger List List' <tigers at autox.team.net>
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tiger PCV Adapter

 

Ron, I have them, will dig them out, they have AC Delco and Ford numbers on them.

 

David

 

On Friday, October 8, 2021, 12:05:32 PM PDT, Ron Fraser <rfraser at bluefrog.com <mailto:rfraser at bluefrog.com> > wrote: 

 

 

David

                As I side note: The MKI & MKII Tigers used AC Delco PCV valves, not Ford/Motorcraft.

That seems very strange.   The Parts Lists only indicates a Ford Part number.

It would be interesting if anyone can confirm an AC Delco part with a photo.

 

I agree the brass adaptor was probably made by Weatherhead.

There is a repeated symbol on this part ? photo by Ken Firch ? it should be the suppliers Logo.

 

I have a 1990 Weathehead catalog and they do show that symbol ? W with an arrow through it.

 

Ron Fraser

 

From: D or G at sbc <orr4sale at sbcglobal.net <mailto:orr4sale at sbcglobal.net> > 
Sent: Friday, October 08, 2021 2:33 PM
To: 'Allan Ballard' <aballard at ix.netcom.com <mailto:aballard at ix.netcom.com> >; 'jimdamelio' <jimdamelio at verizon.net <mailto:jimdamelio at verizon.net> >; Ron Fraser <rfraser at bluefrog.com <mailto:rfraser at bluefrog.com> >
Cc: 'Tiger List List' <tigers at autox.team.net <mailto:tigers at autox.team.net> >
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tiger PCV Adapter

 

I was buying and selling Tiger parts in 1978 and this brass angle fitting was obsolete from Ford then. 

I believe the brass angle fitting was made by Weatherhead.

 

I am 90% sure that all the 260 MKI Tigers had the angle fitting PCV adapter, and it was changed with the 289 MKII Tiger.

 

As I side note: The MKI & MKII Tigers used AC Delco PCV valves, not Ford/Motorcraft.

 

David Franchi

 

 

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From rfraser at bluefrog.com  Fri Oct  8 14:19:29 2021
From: rfraser at bluefrog.com (Ron Fraser)
Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2021 16:19:29 -0400
Subject: [Tigers] Tiger PCV Adapter
In-Reply-To: <005d01d7bc79$0679f6c0$136de440$@bluefrog.com>
References: <20211008165717.2F6ACA1453@autox.team.net>
 <07D560AF-6501-4EC9-BCF2-0850A6F127F3@ix.netcom.com>
 <004201d7bc6e$abe27b10$03a77130$@bluefrog.com>
 <1841889572.435589.1633717990988@mail.yahoo.com>
 <005001d7bc77$734b3e00$59e1ba00$@bluefrog.com>
 <263298147.447005.1633720144142@mail.yahoo.com>
 <005d01d7bc79$0679f6c0$136de440$@bluefrog.com>
Message-ID: <006701d7bc81$cd38e520$67aaaf60$@bluefrog.com>

I just noticed that in Bob Mannel?s book in the 1966 section there is a PCV valve with AC stamped into it.

This is the later style PCV valve with the hose fitting.

 

Was there an early style PCV valve with AC stamped into it?

 

It would appear that the PCV valve supplier was making PCV valves for Ford and AC Delco.

 

Ron Fraser

 

From: Tigers <tigers-bounces at autox.team.net> On Behalf Of Ron Fraser
Sent: Friday, October 08, 2021 3:17 PM
To: 'D or G at sbc' <orr4sale at sbcglobal.net>; 'Allan Ballard' <aballard at ix.netcom.com>; 'jimdamelio' <jimdamelio at verizon.net>
Cc: 'Tiger List List' <tigers at autox.team.net>
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tiger PCV Adapter

 

Excellent!  That is very interesting.

 

Ron Fraser

 

From: D or G at sbc <orr4sale at sbcglobal.net <mailto:orr4sale at sbcglobal.net> > 
Sent: Friday, October 08, 2021 3:09 PM
To: 'Allan Ballard' <aballard at ix.netcom.com <mailto:aballard at ix.netcom.com> >; 'jimdamelio' <jimdamelio at verizon.net <mailto:jimdamelio at verizon.net> >; Ron Fraser <rfraser at bluefrog.com <mailto:rfraser at bluefrog.com> >
Cc: 'Tiger List List' <tigers at autox.team.net <mailto:tigers at autox.team.net> >
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tiger PCV Adapter

 

Ron, I have them, will dig them out, they have AC Delco and Ford numbers on them.

 

David

 

On Friday, October 8, 2021, 12:05:32 PM PDT, Ron Fraser <rfraser at bluefrog.com <mailto:rfraser at bluefrog.com> > wrote: 

 

 

David

                As I side note: The MKI & MKII Tigers used AC Delco PCV valves, not Ford/Motorcraft.

That seems very strange.   The Parts Lists only indicates a Ford Part number.

It would be interesting if anyone can confirm an AC Delco part with a photo.

 

I agree the brass adaptor was probably made by Weatherhead.

There is a repeated symbol on this part ? photo by Ken Firch ? it should be the suppliers Logo.

 

I have a 1990 Weathehead catalog and they do show that symbol ? W with an arrow through it.

 

Ron Fraser

 

From: D or G at sbc <orr4sale at sbcglobal.net <mailto:orr4sale at sbcglobal.net> > 
Sent: Friday, October 08, 2021 2:33 PM
To: 'Allan Ballard' <aballard at ix.netcom.com <mailto:aballard at ix.netcom.com> >; 'jimdamelio' <jimdamelio at verizon.net <mailto:jimdamelio at verizon.net> >; Ron Fraser <rfraser at bluefrog.com <mailto:rfraser at bluefrog.com> >
Cc: 'Tiger List List' <tigers at autox.team.net <mailto:tigers at autox.team.net> >
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tiger PCV Adapter

 

I was buying and selling Tiger parts in 1978 and this brass angle fitting was obsolete from Ford then. 

I believe the brass angle fitting was made by Weatherhead.

 

I am 90% sure that all the 260 MKI Tigers had the angle fitting PCV adapter, and it was changed with the 289 MKII Tiger.

 

As I side note: The MKI & MKII Tigers used AC Delco PCV valves, not Ford/Motorcraft.

 

David Franchi

 

 

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From garywinblad at comcast.net  Fri Oct  8 14:37:15 2021
From: garywinblad at comcast.net (GARY WINBLAD)
Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2021 16:37:15 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Tigers] Tiger PCV Adapter
In-Reply-To: <005d01d7bc79$0679f6c0$136de440$@bluefrog.com>
References: <20211008165717.2F6ACA1453@autox.team.net>
 <07D560AF-6501-4EC9-BCF2-0850A6F127F3@ix.netcom.com>
 <004201d7bc6e$abe27b10$03a77130$@bluefrog.com>
 <1841889572.435589.1633717990988@mail.yahoo.com>
 <005001d7bc77$734b3e00$59e1ba00$@bluefrog.com>
 <263298147.447005.1633720144142@mail.yahoo.com>
 <005d01d7bc79$0679f6c0$136de440$@bluefrog.com>
Message-ID: <2097643821.192751.1633725435873@connect.xfinity.com>

Here's the PCV setup that came on B9470622 in 1971.  Might not be original but close.

No ID I can see on the brass block, though it has evidence of being clamped in the vice (yeah, probably by me!).

The Autolite valve itself has a tag that says EV-42  C7OZ-6A666-A, stamping  on the valve body is C7AE-6A666B.

I don't think I ever replaced the valve.  It comes apart for cleaning..  unlike the new ones!!
Gary


>     On 10/08/2021 3:16 PM Ron Fraser <rfraser at bluefrog.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>     Excellent!  That is very interesting.
> 
> 
>     Ron Fraser
> 
> 
>     From: D or G at sbc <orr4sale at sbcglobal.net>
>     Sent: Friday, October 08, 2021 3:09 PM
>     To: 'Allan Ballard' <aballard at ix.netcom.com>; 'jimdamelio' <jimdamelio at verizon.net>; Ron Fraser <rfraser at bluefrog.com>
>     Cc: 'Tiger List List' <tigers at autox.team.net>
>     Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tiger PCV Adapter
> 
> 
>     Ron, I have them, will dig them out, they have AC Delco and Ford numbers on them.
> 
>      
> 
>     David
> 
>      
> 
>     On Friday, October 8, 2021, 12:05:32 PM PDT, Ron Fraser <rfraser at bluefrog.com mailto:rfraser at bluefrog.com > wrote:
> 
>      
> 
>      
> 
>     David
> 
>                     As I side note: The MKI & MKII Tigers used AC Delco PCV valves, not Ford/Motorcraft.
> 
>     That seems very strange.   The Parts Lists only indicates a Ford Part number.
> 
>     It would be interesting if anyone can confirm an AC Delco part with a photo.
> 
>      
> 
>     I agree the brass adaptor was probably made by Weatherhead.
> 
>     There is a repeated symbol on this part ? photo by Ken Firch ? it should be the suppliers Logo.
> 
>      
> 
>     I have a 1990 Weathehead catalog and they do show that symbol ? W with an arrow through it.
> 
>      
> 
>     Ron Fraser
> 
>      
> 
>     From: D or G at sbc <orr4sale at sbcglobal.net mailto:orr4sale at sbcglobal.net >
>     Sent: Friday, October 08, 2021 2:33 PM
>     To: 'Allan Ballard' <aballard at ix.netcom.com mailto:aballard at ix.netcom.com >; 'jimdamelio' <jimdamelio at verizon.net mailto:jimdamelio at verizon.net >; Ron Fraser <rfraser at bluefrog.com mailto:rfraser at bluefrog.com >
>     Cc: 'Tiger List List' <tigers at autox.team.net mailto:tigers at autox.team.net >
>     Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tiger PCV Adapter
> 
>      
> 
>     I was buying and selling Tiger parts in 1978 and this brass angle fitting was obsolete from Ford then.
> 
>     I believe the brass angle fitting was made by Weatherhead.
> 
>      
> 
>     I am 90% sure that all the 260 MKI Tigers had the angle fitting PCV adapter, and it was changed with the 289 MKII Tiger.
> 
>      
> 
>     As I side note: The MKI & MKII Tigers used AC Delco PCV valves, not Ford/Motorcraft.
> 
>      
> 
>     David Franchi
> 
>      
> 
>      
> 
>     _______________________________________________
> 
>     tigers at autox.team.net
> 
>     Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>     Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive
> 
>     Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/garywinblad at comcast.net
> 
> 
> 
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From dtdaily at yahoo.com  Fri Oct  8 15:23:50 2021
From: dtdaily at yahoo.com (Derek Daily)
Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2021 21:23:50 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Tigers] Tigers Digest, Vol 14, Issue 265
In-Reply-To: <mailman.13805.1633725436.5555.tigers@autox.team.net>
References: <mailman.13805.1633725436.5555.tigers@autox.team.net>
Message-ID: <585723371.1204350.1633728230175@mail.yahoo.com>

As just another "data" point. B382000428
I definitely have a bronze elbow around. ?Dad was orig owner. ?Motor no longer original, BUT he moved most parts over and was very tight (ahem, cheap ass) about spending, so I'm quite confident unless there was a tech reason to do so, all the parts would have stayed. ?(I have orig block).
Derek Dailydtdaily at yahoo.com 


From: D or G at sbc <orr4sale at sbcglobal.net> 
Sent: Friday, October 08, 2021 2:33 PM
To: 'Allan Ballard' <aballard at ix.netcom.com>; 'jimdamelio' <jimdamelio at verizon.net>; Ron Fraser <rfraser at bluefrog.com>
Cc: 'Tiger List List' <tigers at autox.team.net>
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tiger PCV Adapter
     
?
     
I was buying and selling Tiger parts in 1978 and this brass angle fitting was obsolete from Ford then. 
   
I believe the brass angle fitting was made by Weatherhead.
   
?
   
I am 90% sure that all the 260 MKI Tigers had the angle fitting PCV adapter, and it was changed with the 289 MKII Tiger.
   
?
   
As I side note: The MKI & MKII Tigers used AC Delco PCV valves, not Ford/Motorcraft.
   
?
  
David Franchi
   
?
    



  
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From rfraser at bluefrog.com  Fri Oct  8 15:26:54 2021
From: rfraser at bluefrog.com (Ron Fraser)
Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2021 17:26:54 -0400
Subject: [Tigers] Tiger PCV Adapter
In-Reply-To: <2097643821.192751.1633725435873@connect.xfinity.com>
References: <20211008165717.2F6ACA1453@autox.team.net>
 <07D560AF-6501-4EC9-BCF2-0850A6F127F3@ix.netcom.com>
 <004201d7bc6e$abe27b10$03a77130$@bluefrog.com>
 <1841889572.435589.1633717990988@mail.yahoo.com>
 <005001d7bc77$734b3e00$59e1ba00$@bluefrog.com>
 <263298147.447005.1633720144142@mail.yahoo.com>
 <005d01d7bc79$0679f6c0$136de440$@bluefrog.com>
 <2097643821.192751.1633725435873@connect.xfinity.com>
Message-ID: <007701d7bc8b$38055ab0$a8101010$@bluefrog.com>

Thank you for the photos.

Yes, the early style PCV valves are serviceable, the later style NO.

 

C7 is 1967 ? so not original to the engine but an equivalent part.

 

Ron Fraser

 

From: GARY WINBLAD <garywinblad at comcast.net> 
Sent: Friday, October 08, 2021 4:37 PM
To: Ron Fraser <rfraser at bluefrog.com>; D or G at sbc <orr4sale at sbcglobal.net>; Allan Ballard <aballard at ix.netcom.com>; jimdamelio <jimdamelio at verizon.net>
Cc: Tiger List List <tigers at autox.team.net>
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tiger PCV Adapter

 

Here's the PCV setup that came on B9470622 in 1971.  Might not be original but close. 

 

No ID I can see on the brass block, though it has evidence of being clamped in the vice (yeah, probably by me!). 

 

The Autolite valve itself has a tag that says EV-42  C7OZ-6A666-A, stamping  on the valve body is C7AE-6A666B. 

 

I don't think I ever replaced the valve.  It comes apart for cleaning..  unlike the new ones!! 

Gary 

 

On 10/08/2021 3:16 PM Ron Fraser <rfraser at bluefrog.com <mailto:rfraser at bluefrog.com> > wrote: 

 

 

Excellent!  That is very interesting.

 

Ron Fraser

 

From: D or G at sbc <orr4sale at sbcglobal.net <mailto:orr4sale at sbcglobal.net> > 
Sent: Friday, October 08, 2021 3:09 PM
To: 'Allan Ballard' <aballard at ix.netcom.com <mailto:aballard at ix.netcom.com> >; 'jimdamelio' <jimdamelio at verizon.net <mailto:jimdamelio at verizon.net> >; Ron Fraser <rfraser at bluefrog.com <mailto:rfraser at bluefrog.com> >
Cc: 'Tiger List List' <tigers at autox.team.net <mailto:tigers at autox.team.net> >
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tiger PCV Adapter

 

Ron, I have them, will dig them out, they have AC Delco and Ford numbers on them.

 

David

 

On Friday, October 8, 2021, 12:05:32 PM PDT, Ron Fraser <rfraser at bluefrog.com <mailto:rfraser at bluefrog.com> > wrote: 

 

 

David

                As I side note: The MKI & MKII Tigers used AC Delco PCV valves, not Ford/Motorcraft.

That seems very strange.   The Parts Lists only indicates a Ford Part number.

It would be interesting if anyone can confirm an AC Delco part with a photo.

 

I agree the brass adaptor was probably made by Weatherhead.

There is a repeated symbol on this part ? photo by Ken Firch ? it should be the suppliers Logo.

 

I have a 1990 Weathehead catalog and they do show that symbol ? W with an arrow through it.

 

Ron Fraser

 

From: D or G at sbc <orr4sale at sbcglobal.net <mailto:orr4sale at sbcglobal.net> > 
Sent: Friday, October 08, 2021 2:33 PM
To: 'Allan Ballard' <aballard at ix.netcom.com <mailto:aballard at ix.netcom.com> >; 'jimdamelio' <jimdamelio at verizon.net <mailto:jimdamelio at verizon.net> >; Ron Fraser <rfraser at bluefrog.com <mailto:rfraser at bluefrog.com> >
Cc: 'Tiger List List' <tigers at autox.team.net <mailto:tigers at autox.team.net> >
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tiger PCV Adapter

 

I was buying and selling Tiger parts in 1978 and this brass angle fitting was obsolete from Ford then. 

I believe the brass angle fitting was made by Weatherhead.

 

I am 90% sure that all the 260 MKI Tigers had the angle fitting PCV adapter, and it was changed with the 289 MKII Tiger.

 

As I side note: The MKI & MKII Tigers used AC Delco PCV valves, not Ford/Motorcraft.

 

David Franchi

 

 

_______________________________________________ 

tigers at autox.team.net <mailto:tigers at autox.team.net>  

Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html 
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive 

Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/garywinblad at comcast.net 



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From orr4sale at sbcglobal.net  Fri Oct  8 15:36:02 2021
From: orr4sale at sbcglobal.net (D or G at sbc)
Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2021 21:36:02 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Tigers] Tiger PCV Adapter
In-Reply-To: <2097643821.192751.1633725435873@connect.xfinity.com>
References: <20211008165717.2F6ACA1453@autox.team.net>
 <07D560AF-6501-4EC9-BCF2-0850A6F127F3@ix.netcom.com>
 <004201d7bc6e$abe27b10$03a77130$@bluefrog.com>
 <1841889572.435589.1633717990988@mail.yahoo.com>
 <005001d7bc77$734b3e00$59e1ba00$@bluefrog.com>
 <263298147.447005.1633720144142@mail.yahoo.com>
 <005d01d7bc79$0679f6c0$136de440$@bluefrog.com>
 <2097643821.192751.1633725435873@connect.xfinity.com>
Message-ID: <1213228989.388404.1633728962720@mail.yahoo.com>

 Gary, Your C7OZ is a replacement. I went through more stuff and found another AC CV-643C with a C4ZE-6A666-A1 part number (photo attached), apparently for a Mustang. When you change your PCV valve don't throw away the round tag label, Mustang/Fairlane people will buy that tag.
You concours judges will have to inspect the PCV valves for authenticity :).

David

   On Friday, October 8, 2021, 01:37:22 PM PDT, GARY WINBLAD <garywinblad at comcast.net> wrote:  
 
   Here's the PCV setup that came on B9470622 in 1971.? Might not be original but close.   
   No ID I can see on the brass block, though it has evidence of being clamped in the vice (yeah, probably by me!).   
   The Autolite valve itself has a tag that says EV-42? C7OZ-6A666-A, stamping? on the valve body is C7AE-6A666B.   
   I don't think I ever replaced the valve.? It comes apart for cleaning..? unlike the new ones!!   Gary   
  
  On 10/08/2021 3:16 PM Ron Fraser <rfraser at bluefrog.com> wrote:   
   
   
Excellent!? That is very interesting.
 


 
Ron Fraser
 


   
From: D or G at sbc <orr4sale at sbcglobal.net> 
Sent: Friday, October 08, 2021 3:09 PM
To: 'Allan Ballard' <aballard at ix.netcom.com>; 'jimdamelio' <jimdamelio at verizon.net>; Ron Fraser <rfraser at bluefrog.com>
Cc: 'Tiger List List' <tigers at autox.team.net>
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tiger PCV Adapter
   


   
Ron, I have them, will dig them out, they have AC Delco and Ford numbers on them.
   
?
   
David
   
?
      
On Friday, October 8, 2021, 12:05:32 PM PDT, Ron Fraser <rfraser at bluefrog.com> wrote: 
   
?
   
?
      
David
 
??????????????? As I side note: The MKI & MKII Tigers used AC Delco PCV valves, not Ford/Motorcraft.
 
That seems very strange.?? The Parts Lists only indicates a Ford Part number.
 
It would be interesting if anyone can confirm an AC Delco part with a photo.
 
?
 
I agree the brass adaptor was probably made by Weatherhead.
 
There is a repeated symbol on this part ? photo by Ken Firch ? it should be the suppliers Logo.
 
?
 
I have a 1990 Weathehead catalog and they do show that symbol ? W with an arrow through it.
 
?
 
Ron Fraser
 
?
    
From: D or G at sbc <orr4sale at sbcglobal.net> 
Sent: Friday, October 08, 2021 2:33 PM
To: 'Allan Ballard' <aballard at ix.netcom.com>; 'jimdamelio' <jimdamelio at verizon.net>; Ron Fraser <rfraser at bluefrog.com>
Cc: 'Tiger List List' <tigers at autox.team.net>
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tiger PCV Adapter
     
?
     
I was buying and selling Tiger parts in 1978 and this brass angle fitting was obsolete from Ford then. 
   
I believe the brass angle fitting was made by Weatherhead.
   
?
   
I am 90% sure that all the 260 MKI Tigers had the angle fitting PCV adapter, and it was changed with the 289 MKII Tiger.
   
?
   
As I side note: The MKI & MKII Tigers used AC Delco PCV valves, not Ford/Motorcraft.
   
?
  
David Franchi
   
?
    
?
          _______________________________________________ 
 
tigers at autox.team.net 
 
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html 
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive 
 
Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/garywinblad at comcast.net 
 
 
 
   
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From rfraser at bluefrog.com  Fri Oct  8 15:40:31 2021
From: rfraser at bluefrog.com (Ron Fraser)
Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2021 17:40:31 -0400
Subject: [Tigers] Tiger PCV Adapter
In-Reply-To: <753557105.467385.1633727072513@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20211008165717.2F6ACA1453@autox.team.net>
 <07D560AF-6501-4EC9-BCF2-0850A6F127F3@ix.netcom.com>
 <004201d7bc6e$abe27b10$03a77130$@bluefrog.com>
 <1841889572.435589.1633717990988@mail.yahoo.com>
 <005001d7bc77$734b3e00$59e1ba00$@bluefrog.com>
 <263298147.447005.1633720144142@mail.yahoo.com>
 <005d01d7bc79$0679f6c0$136de440$@bluefrog.com>
 <753557105.467385.1633727072513@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <007c01d7bc8d$1f9afaa0$5ed0efe0$@bluefrog.com>

Sweet ? this is great

 

Attached is Weatherhead Logo

 

I took a Weatherhead Male Elbow and made a nearly correct looking PCV adaptor and valve.

 

Thanks David

Ron Fraser

 

From: D or G at sbc <orr4sale at sbcglobal.net> 
Sent: Friday, October 08, 2021 5:04 PM
To: 'Allan Ballard' <aballard at ix.netcom.com>; 'jimdamelio' <jimdamelio at verizon.net>; Ron Fraser <rfraser at bluefrog.com>
Cc: 'Tiger List List' <tigers at autox.team.net>
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tiger PCV Adapter

 

Found them, even the angle adapter. Don't know where my used ones are, but here are new ones.

 

MKI, AC CV643C & C4TZ-6A666-D....

MKII AC CV733C & C6AE-6A666-B2....

Angle adapt. Autolite/Ford 378754 S on bag, on fitting hexagon with a W in it.

Pictures attached.

 

David

 

On Friday, October 8, 2021, 12:16:43 PM PDT, Ron Fraser <rfraser at bluefrog.com <mailto:rfraser at bluefrog.com> > wrote: 

 

 

Excellent!  That is very interesting.

 

Ron Fraser

 

From: D or G at sbc <orr4sale at sbcglobal.net <mailto:orr4sale at sbcglobal.net> > 
Sent: Friday, October 08, 2021 3:09 PM
To: 'Allan Ballard' <aballard at ix.netcom.com <mailto:aballard at ix.netcom.com> >; 'jimdamelio' <jimdamelio at verizon.net <mailto:jimdamelio at verizon.net> >; Ron Fraser <rfraser at bluefrog.com <mailto:rfraser at bluefrog.com> >
Cc: 'Tiger List List' <tigers at autox.team.net <mailto:tigers at autox.team.net> >
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tiger PCV Adapter

 

Ron, I have them, will dig them out, they have AC Delco and Ford numbers on them.

 

David

 

On Friday, October 8, 2021, 12:05:32 PM PDT, Ron Fraser <rfraser at bluefrog.com <mailto:rfraser at bluefrog.com> > wrote: 

 

 

David

                As I side note: The MKI & MKII Tigers used AC Delco PCV valves, not Ford/Motorcraft.

That seems very strange.   The Parts Lists only indicates a Ford Part number.

It would be interesting if anyone can confirm an AC Delco part with a photo.

 

I agree the brass adaptor was probably made by Weatherhead.

There is a repeated symbol on this part ? photo by Ken Firch ? it should be the suppliers Logo.

 

I have a 1990 Weathehead catalog and they do show that symbol ? W with an arrow through it.

 

Ron Fraser

 

From: D or G at sbc <orr4sale at sbcglobal.net <mailto:orr4sale at sbcglobal.net> > 
Sent: Friday, October 08, 2021 2:33 PM
To: 'Allan Ballard' <aballard at ix.netcom.com <mailto:aballard at ix.netcom.com> >; 'jimdamelio' <jimdamelio at verizon.net <mailto:jimdamelio at verizon.net> >; Ron Fraser <rfraser at bluefrog.com <mailto:rfraser at bluefrog.com> >
Cc: 'Tiger List List' <tigers at autox.team.net <mailto:tigers at autox.team.net> >
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tiger PCV Adapter

 

I was buying and selling Tiger parts in 1978 and this brass angle fitting was obsolete from Ford then. 

I believe the brass angle fitting was made by Weatherhead.

 

I am 90% sure that all the 260 MKI Tigers had the angle fitting PCV adapter, and it was changed with the 289 MKII Tiger.

 

As I side note: The MKI & MKII Tigers used AC Delco PCV valves, not Ford/Motorcraft.

 

David Franchi

 

 

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From packertl3 at yahoo.com  Fri Oct  8 16:50:20 2021
From: packertl3 at yahoo.com (Terry Packer)
Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2021 22:50:20 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Tigers] Tiger PCV Adapter & Battery Packers
In-Reply-To: <007c01d7bc8d$1f9afaa0$5ed0efe0$@bluefrog.com>
References: <20211008165717.2F6ACA1453@autox.team.net>
 <07D560AF-6501-4EC9-BCF2-0850A6F127F3@ix.netcom.com>
 <004201d7bc6e$abe27b10$03a77130$@bluefrog.com>
 <1841889572.435589.1633717990988@mail.yahoo.com>
 <005001d7bc77$734b3e00$59e1ba00$@bluefrog.com>
 <263298147.447005.1633720144142@mail.yahoo.com>
 <005d01d7bc79$0679f6c0$136de440$@bluefrog.com>
 <753557105.467385.1633727072513@mail.yahoo.com>
 <007c01d7bc8d$1f9afaa0$5ed0efe0$@bluefrog.com>
Message-ID: <143876902.674229.1633733420552@mail.yahoo.com>

Hello All
Attached is a photo of a pvc adapter which illustrates how the Weatherhead logo was applied. This adapter is still present on 9470018, which came off the Jensen assembly line on the first day of "mass" Tiger production in June, 1964. I have essentially no history of the car's ownership prior to 1978, but as the engine was original to the car and there is little reason why the pvc adapter would have been changed, the likelihood is high that the adapter pictured is both original to the car and illustrates what was installed on Tigers when first offered to the public.
I also wrote to thank all who contributed to resolution of the Battery Packer mystery. For many decades I put unsecured pieces of wood in the trunk to secure the battery adequately never realizing original pieces of similar dimension and their attachments were missing! Under a layer of paint I discovered the original mounting holes in excellent condition and after a friend with a cabinet shop provided the beech side rail and a local hardware gave me 1/4" ply free from their remnant barrel, all is now as it should be. 

Thanks again.

Terry


  
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From drmayf at mayfco.com  Fri Oct  8 17:53:16 2021
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (Larry Mayfield)
Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2021 16:53:16 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] Tiger PCV Adapter
In-Reply-To: <007c01d7bc8d$1f9afaa0$5ed0efe0$@bluefrog.com>
References: <20211008165717.2F6ACA1453@autox.team.net>
 <07D560AF-6501-4EC9-BCF2-0850A6F127F3@ix.netcom.com>
 <004201d7bc6e$abe27b10$03a77130$@bluefrog.com>
 <1841889572.435589.1633717990988@mail.yahoo.com>
 <005001d7bc77$734b3e00$59e1ba00$@bluefrog.com>
 <263298147.447005.1633720144142@mail.yahoo.com>
 <005d01d7bc79$0679f6c0$136de440$@bluefrog.com>
 <753557105.467385.1633727072513@mail.yahoo.com>
 <007c01d7bc8d$1f9afaa0$5ed0efe0$@bluefrog.com>
Message-ID: <00c101d7bc9f$adff2340$09fd69c0$@mayfco.com>

Wish you had reminded everyone that the brass fitting in the photo has a hose barb where the threads are.  And my MkI  PCV hs small flanges where it goes through the grommet on the valve cover. 

 

Larry

Pahrump, NV

 

From: Tigers <tigers-bounces at autox.team.net> On Behalf Of Ron Fraser
Sent: Friday, October 8, 2021 2:41 PM
To: 'D or G at sbc' <orr4sale at sbcglobal.net>; 'Allan Ballard' <aballard at ix.netcom.com>; 'jimdamelio' <jimdamelio at verizon.net>
Cc: 'Tiger List List' <tigers at autox.team.net>
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tiger PCV Adapter

 

Sweet ? this is great

 

Attached is Weatherhead Logo

 

I took a Weatherhead Male Elbow and made a nearly correct looking PCV adaptor and valve.

 

Thanks David

Ron Fraser

 

From: D or G at sbc <orr4sale at sbcglobal.net <mailto:orr4sale at sbcglobal.net> > 
Sent: Friday, October 08, 2021 5:04 PM
To: 'Allan Ballard' <aballard at ix.netcom.com <mailto:aballard at ix.netcom.com> >; 'jimdamelio' <jimdamelio at verizon.net <mailto:jimdamelio at verizon.net> >; Ron Fraser <rfraser at bluefrog.com <mailto:rfraser at bluefrog.com> >
Cc: 'Tiger List List' <tigers at autox.team.net <mailto:tigers at autox.team.net> >
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tiger PCV Adapter

 

Found them, even the angle adapter. Don't know where my used ones are, but here are new ones.

 

MKI, AC CV643C & C4TZ-6A666-D....

MKII AC CV733C & C6AE-6A666-B2....

Angle adapt. Autolite/Ford 378754 S on bag, on fitting hexagon with a W in it.

Pictures attached.

 

David

 

On Friday, October 8, 2021, 12:16:43 PM PDT, Ron Fraser <rfraser at bluefrog.com <mailto:rfraser at bluefrog.com> > wrote: 

 

 

Excellent!  That is very interesting.

 

Ron Fraser

 

From: D or G at sbc <orr4sale at sbcglobal.net <mailto:orr4sale at sbcglobal.net> > 
Sent: Friday, October 08, 2021 3:09 PM
To: 'Allan Ballard' <aballard at ix.netcom.com <mailto:aballard at ix.netcom.com> >; 'jimdamelio' <jimdamelio at verizon.net <mailto:jimdamelio at verizon.net> >; Ron Fraser <rfraser at bluefrog.com <mailto:rfraser at bluefrog.com> >
Cc: 'Tiger List List' <tigers at autox.team.net <mailto:tigers at autox.team.net> >
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tiger PCV Adapter

 

Ron, I have them, will dig them out, they have AC Delco and Ford numbers on them.

 

David

 

On Friday, October 8, 2021, 12:05:32 PM PDT, Ron Fraser <rfraser at bluefrog.com <mailto:rfraser at bluefrog.com> > wrote: 

 

 

David

                As I side note: The MKI & MKII Tigers used AC Delco PCV valves, not Ford/Motorcraft.

That seems very strange.   The Parts Lists only indicates a Ford Part number.

It would be interesting if anyone can confirm an AC Delco part with a photo.

 

I agree the brass adaptor was probably made by Weatherhead.

There is a repeated symbol on this part ? photo by Ken Firch ? it should be the suppliers Logo.

 

I have a 1990 Weathehead catalog and they do show that symbol ? W with an arrow through it.

 

Ron Fraser

 

From: D or G at sbc <orr4sale at sbcglobal.net <mailto:orr4sale at sbcglobal.net> > 
Sent: Friday, October 08, 2021 2:33 PM
To: 'Allan Ballard' <aballard at ix.netcom.com <mailto:aballard at ix.netcom.com> >; 'jimdamelio' <jimdamelio at verizon.net <mailto:jimdamelio at verizon.net> >; Ron Fraser <rfraser at bluefrog.com <mailto:rfraser at bluefrog.com> >
Cc: 'Tiger List List' <tigers at autox.team.net <mailto:tigers at autox.team.net> >
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tiger PCV Adapter

 

I was buying and selling Tiger parts in 1978 and this brass angle fitting was obsolete from Ford then. 

I believe the brass angle fitting was made by Weatherhead.

 

I am 90% sure that all the 260 MKI Tigers had the angle fitting PCV adapter, and it was changed with the 289 MKII Tiger.

 

As I side note: The MKI & MKII Tigers used AC Delco PCV valves, not Ford/Motorcraft.

 

David Franchi

 

 

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From rfraser at bluefrog.com  Sat Oct  9 08:07:21 2021
From: rfraser at bluefrog.com (Ron Fraser)
Date: Sat, 9 Oct 2021 10:07:21 -0400
Subject: [Tigers] Tiger PCV Adapter
In-Reply-To: <00c101d7bc9f$adff2340$09fd69c0$@mayfco.com>
References: <20211008165717.2F6ACA1453@autox.team.net>
 <07D560AF-6501-4EC9-BCF2-0850A6F127F3@ix.netcom.com>
 <004201d7bc6e$abe27b10$03a77130$@bluefrog.com>
 <1841889572.435589.1633717990988@mail.yahoo.com>
 <005001d7bc77$734b3e00$59e1ba00$@bluefrog.com>
 <263298147.447005.1633720144142@mail.yahoo.com>
 <005d01d7bc79$0679f6c0$136de440$@bluefrog.com>
 <753557105.467385.1633727072513@mail.yahoo.com>
 <007c01d7bc8d$1f9afaa0$5ed0efe0$@bluefrog.com>
 <00c101d7bc9f$adff2340$09fd69c0$@mayfco.com>
Message-ID: <000201d7bd16$fadb1170$f0913450$@bluefrog.com>

Mayf

                You are correct, I did not explain those items about my attempt to recreate this Adaptor part.

 

David Franchi sent this picture which shows the original Adaptor part with hose flange and an early style PCV valve with the flange for the rubber grommet.

 

Ron Fraser

 

 

From: Larry Mayfield <drmayf at mayfco.com> 
Sent: Friday, October 08, 2021 7:53 PM
To: 'Ron Fraser' <rfraser at bluefrog.com>; 'D or G at sbc' <orr4sale at sbcglobal.net>; 'Allan Ballard' <aballard at ix.netcom.com>; 'jimdamelio' <jimdamelio at verizon.net>
Cc: 'Tiger List List' <tigers at autox.team.net>
Subject: RE: [Tigers] Tiger PCV Adapter

 

Wish you had reminded everyone that the brass fitting in the photo has a hose barb where the threads are.  And my MkI  PCV hs small flanges where it goes through the grommet on the valve cover. 

 

Larry

Pahrump, NV

 

From: Tigers <tigers-bounces at autox.team.net <mailto:tigers-bounces at autox.team.net> > On Behalf Of Ron Fraser
Sent: Friday, October 8, 2021 2:41 PM
To: 'D or G at sbc' <orr4sale at sbcglobal.net <mailto:orr4sale at sbcglobal.net> >; 'Allan Ballard' <aballard at ix.netcom.com <mailto:aballard at ix.netcom.com> >; 'jimdamelio' <jimdamelio at verizon.net <mailto:jimdamelio at verizon.net> >
Cc: 'Tiger List List' <tigers at autox.team.net <mailto:tigers at autox.team.net> >
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tiger PCV Adapter

 

Sweet ? this is great

 

Attached is Weatherhead Logo

 

I took a Weatherhead Male Elbow and made a nearly correct looking PCV adaptor and valve.

 

Thanks David

Ron Fraser

 

From: D or G at sbc <orr4sale at sbcglobal.net <mailto:orr4sale at sbcglobal.net> > 
Sent: Friday, October 08, 2021 5:04 PM
To: 'Allan Ballard' <aballard at ix.netcom.com <mailto:aballard at ix.netcom.com> >; 'jimdamelio' <jimdamelio at verizon.net <mailto:jimdamelio at verizon.net> >; Ron Fraser <rfraser at bluefrog.com <mailto:rfraser at bluefrog.com> >
Cc: 'Tiger List List' <tigers at autox.team.net <mailto:tigers at autox.team.net> >
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tiger PCV Adapter

 

Found them, even the angle adapter. Don't know where my used ones are, but here are new ones.

 

MKI, AC CV643C & C4TZ-6A666-D....

MKII AC CV733C & C6AE-6A666-B2....

Angle adapt. Autolite/Ford 378754 S on bag, on fitting hexagon with a W in it.

Pictures attached.

 

David

 

On Friday, October 8, 2021, 12:16:43 PM PDT, Ron Fraser <rfraser at bluefrog.com <mailto:rfraser at bluefrog.com> > wrote: 

 

 

Excellent!  That is very interesting.

 

Ron Fraser

 

From: D or G at sbc <orr4sale at sbcglobal.net <mailto:orr4sale at sbcglobal.net> > 
Sent: Friday, October 08, 2021 3:09 PM
To: 'Allan Ballard' <aballard at ix.netcom.com <mailto:aballard at ix.netcom.com> >; 'jimdamelio' <jimdamelio at verizon.net <mailto:jimdamelio at verizon.net> >; Ron Fraser <rfraser at bluefrog.com <mailto:rfraser at bluefrog.com> >
Cc: 'Tiger List List' <tigers at autox.team.net <mailto:tigers at autox.team.net> >
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tiger PCV Adapter

 

Ron, I have them, will dig them out, they have AC Delco and Ford numbers on them.

 

David

 

On Friday, October 8, 2021, 12:05:32 PM PDT, Ron Fraser <rfraser at bluefrog.com <mailto:rfraser at bluefrog.com> > wrote: 

 

 

David

                As I side note: The MKI & MKII Tigers used AC Delco PCV valves, not Ford/Motorcraft.

That seems very strange.   The Parts Lists only indicates a Ford Part number.

It would be interesting if anyone can confirm an AC Delco part with a photo.

 

I agree the brass adaptor was probably made by Weatherhead.

There is a repeated symbol on this part ? photo by Ken Firch ? it should be the suppliers Logo.

 

I have a 1990 Weathehead catalog and they do show that symbol ? W with an arrow through it.

 

Ron Fraser

 

From: D or G at sbc <orr4sale at sbcglobal.net <mailto:orr4sale at sbcglobal.net> > 
Sent: Friday, October 08, 2021 2:33 PM
To: 'Allan Ballard' <aballard at ix.netcom.com <mailto:aballard at ix.netcom.com> >; 'jimdamelio' <jimdamelio at verizon.net <mailto:jimdamelio at verizon.net> >; Ron Fraser <rfraser at bluefrog.com <mailto:rfraser at bluefrog.com> >
Cc: 'Tiger List List' <tigers at autox.team.net <mailto:tigers at autox.team.net> >
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tiger PCV Adapter

 

I was buying and selling Tiger parts in 1978 and this brass angle fitting was obsolete from Ford then. 

I believe the brass angle fitting was made by Weatherhead.

 

I am 90% sure that all the 260 MKI Tigers had the angle fitting PCV adapter, and it was changed with the 289 MKII Tiger.

 

As I side note: The MKI & MKII Tigers used AC Delco PCV valves, not Ford/Motorcraft.

 

David Franchi

 

 

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From jmartiniii at yahoo.com  Sat Oct  9 08:34:17 2021
From: jmartiniii at yahoo.com (Joel Martin)
Date: Sat, 9 Oct 2021 14:34:17 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Tigers] Tiger rear end
References: <1308602757.544861.1633790057415.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1308602757.544861.1633790057415@mail.yahoo.com>

I have a 1966 MK!A am wondering what correct the rear axel scheme should be.? All semi gloss black or the pumpkin painted a redish or orange per below.

?If the redish or orange color is correct, does anyone have a rattle can paint code number and brand which would be correct.
RegardsJoel Martin
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From garywinblad at comcast.net  Sat Oct  9 08:42:21 2021
From: garywinblad at comcast.net (GARY WINBLAD)
Date: Sat, 9 Oct 2021 10:42:21 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Tigers] Tiger rear end
In-Reply-To: <1308602757.544861.1633790057415@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <1308602757.544861.1633790057415.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
 <1308602757.544861.1633790057415@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <392460899.223084.1633790541690@connect.xfinity.com>

It should be black.  Black over redish orange if you want to be really correct...
Gary


>     On 10/09/2021 10:34 AM Joel Martin via Tigers <tigers at autox.team.net> wrote:
> 
> 
>     I have a 1966 MK!A am wondering what correct the rear axel scheme should be.  All semi gloss black or the pumpkin painted a redish or orange per below.
> 
>     <b1c563e6-b217-db23-2af7-5e4d0eb52baf at yahoo.com> " style="max-width: 721px; width: 100%;" class="yahoo-inline-image" src="/ajax/image/mail/compose/mailstorage/image?id=4f54b232b5d7463a98be379a7b346760&uid=0ec6df8140944592abd5e2f747d089c7" alt="Inline image" data-mce-src="https://connect.xfinity.com/ajax/image/mail/compose/mailstorage/image?id=4f54b232b5d7463a98be379a7b346760&uid=0ec6df8140944592abd5e2f747d089c7" data-mce-style="max-width: 721px; width: 100%;">
>      If the redish or orange color is correct, does anyone have a rattle can paint code number and brand which would be correct. </b1c563e6-b217-db23-2af7-5e4d0eb52baf at yahoo.com>
> 
>     Regards
>     Joel Martin
>     _______________________________________________
> 
>     tigers at autox.team.net
> 
>     Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>     Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive
> 
>     Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/garywinblad at comcast.net
> 
> 
> 
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From rfraser at bluefrog.com  Sat Oct  9 08:45:18 2021
From: rfraser at bluefrog.com (Ron Fraser)
Date: Sat, 9 Oct 2021 10:45:18 -0400
Subject: [Tigers] Tiger rear end
In-Reply-To: <1308602757.544861.1633790057415@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <1308602757.544861.1633790057415.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
 <1308602757.544861.1633790057415@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <001201d7bd1c$482b2500$d8816f00$@bluefrog.com>

Joel

                The correct red color according to TBON is Glyptal.

The rest of the paint scheme looks correct ? chassis black.

Ron Fraser

 

From: Tigers <tigers-bounces at autox.team.net> On Behalf Of Joel Martin via Tigers
Sent: Saturday, October 09, 2021 10:34 AM
To: Tiger List Serve <tigers at autox.team.net>
Subject: [Tigers] Tiger rear end

 

I have a 1966 MK!A am wondering what correct the rear axel scheme should be.  All semi gloss black or the pumpkin painted a redish or orange per below.

 


 If the redish or orange color is correct, does anyone have a rattle can paint code number and brand which would be correct.

 

Regards

Joel Martin

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From rfraser at bluefrog.com  Sat Oct  9 09:40:52 2021
From: rfraser at bluefrog.com (Ron Fraser)
Date: Sat, 9 Oct 2021 11:40:52 -0400
Subject: [Tigers] FW:  Tiger rear end
In-Reply-To: <075c01d7bd1f$c765eaa0$5631bfe0$@verizon.net>
References: <1308602757.544861.1633790057415.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
 <1308602757.544861.1633790057415@mail.yahoo.com>
 <001201d7bd1c$482b2500$d8816f00$@bluefrog.com>
 <075c01d7bd1f$c765eaa0$5631bfe0$@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <003901d7bd24$0b37fd50$21a7f7f0$@bluefrog.com>

Here is a note from Buck

I only have TBON to go by

 

Ron Fraser

 

From: Buck Trippel <bucktrippel at verizon.net> 
Sent: Saturday, October 09, 2021 11:10 AM
To: Ron Fraser <rfraser at bluefrog.com>
Subject: FW: [Tigers] Tiger rear end

 

Ron,

 

The pumpkins were first dipped in that orangish-red glyptal however they were they painted black on the outside.

 

Buck

 

 

From: Tigers <tigers-bounces at autox.team.net <mailto:tigers-bounces at autox.team.net> > On Behalf Of Ron Fraser
Sent: Saturday, October 9, 2021 7:45 AM
To: 'Joel Martin' <jmartiniii at yahoo.com <mailto:jmartiniii at yahoo.com> >
Cc: tigers at Autox.Team.Net <mailto:tigers at Autox.Team.Net> 
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tiger rear end

 

Joel

                The correct red color according to TBON is Glyptal.

The rest of the paint scheme looks correct ? chassis black.

Ron Fraser

 

From: Tigers <tigers-bounces at autox.team.net <mailto:tigers-bounces at autox.team.net> > On Behalf Of Joel Martin via Tigers
Sent: Saturday, October 09, 2021 10:34 AM
To: Tiger List Serve <tigers at autox.team.net <mailto:tigers at autox.team.net> >
Subject: [Tigers] Tiger rear end

 

I have a 1966 MK!A am wondering what correct the rear axel scheme should be.  All semi gloss black or the pumpkin painted a redish or orange per below.

 


 If the redish or orange color is correct, does anyone have a rattle can paint code number and brand which would be correct.

 

Regards

Joel Martin

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From mwood24020 at aol.com  Sat Oct  9 10:32:30 2021
From: mwood24020 at aol.com (Michael Wood)
Date: Sat, 9 Oct 2021 16:32:30 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Tigers] FW:  Tiger rear end
In-Reply-To: <003901d7bd24$0b37fd50$21a7f7f0$@bluefrog.com>
References: <1308602757.544861.1633790057415.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
 <1308602757.544861.1633790057415@mail.yahoo.com>
 <001201d7bd1c$482b2500$d8816f00$@bluefrog.com>
 <075c01d7bd1f$c765eaa0$5631bfe0$@verizon.net>
 <003901d7bd24$0b37fd50$21a7f7f0$@bluefrog.com>
Message-ID: <2023698648.561236.1633797150451@mail.yahoo.com>

I've also heard that keeping the pumpkin in just the Glyptal primer (as pictured and typically done during restorations) isn't actually correct and that the diffs/rear end were painted all black. It may have depended on what day the car was assembled...Fridays and Mondays half painted, mid-week all painted, who knows? lol. But, again, most common is the exposed primer on the pumpkin in restored cars.



-----Original Message-----
From: Ron Fraser <rfraser at bluefrog.com>
To: tigers at Autox.Team.Net
Sent: Sat, Oct 9, 2021 8:48 am
Subject: [Tigers] FW: Tiger rear end

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Here is a note from Buck

I only have TBON to go by

 ?

Ron Fraser

 ?

From: Buck Trippel <bucktrippel at verizon.net> 
Sent: Saturday, October 09, 2021 11:10 AM
To: Ron Fraser <rfraser at bluefrog.com>
Subject: FW: [Tigers] Tiger rear end

 ?

Ron,

 ?

The pumpkins were first dipped in that orangish-red glyptal however they were they painted black on the outside.

 ?

Buck

 ?

 ?

From: Tigers <tigers-bounces at autox.team.net> On Behalf Of Ron Fraser
Sent: Saturday, October 9, 2021 7:45 AM
To: 'Joel Martin' <jmartiniii at yahoo.com>
Cc: tigers at Autox.Team.Net
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tiger rear end

 ?

Joel

??????????????? The correct red color according to TBON is Glyptal.

The rest of the paint scheme looks correct ? chassis black.

Ron Fraser

 ?

From: Tigers <tigers-bounces at autox.team.net> On Behalf Of Joel Martin via Tigers
Sent: Saturday, October 09, 2021 10:34 AM
To: Tiger List Serve <tigers at autox.team.net>
Subject: [Tigers] Tiger rear end

 ?

I have a 1966 MK!A am wondering what correct the rear axel scheme should be.? All semi gloss black or the pumpkin painted a redish or orange per below.

 ?


?If the redish or orange color is correct, does anyone have a rattle can paint code number and brand which would be correct.

 ?

Regards

Joel Martin
_______________________________________________

tigers at autox.team.net

Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive

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From garywinblad at comcast.net  Sat Oct  9 11:03:04 2021
From: garywinblad at comcast.net (GARY WINBLAD)
Date: Sat, 9 Oct 2021 13:03:04 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Tigers] FW: Tiger rear end
In-Reply-To: <003901d7bd24$0b37fd50$21a7f7f0$@bluefrog.com>
References: <1308602757.544861.1633790057415.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
 <1308602757.544861.1633790057415@mail.yahoo.com>
 <001201d7bd1c$482b2500$d8816f00$@bluefrog.com>
 <075c01d7bd1f$c765eaa0$5631bfe0$@verizon.net>
 <003901d7bd24$0b37fd50$21a7f7f0$@bluefrog.com>
Message-ID: <891398752.230349.1633798984133@connect.xfinity.com>

TBON is wrong on this one.  Black is correct according to the late Paul Reisentz.
Gary


>     On 10/09/2021 11:40 AM Ron Fraser <rfraser at bluefrog.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>     Here is a note from Buck
> 
>     I only have TBON to go by
> 
> 
>     Ron Fraser
> 
> 
>     From: Buck Trippel <bucktrippel at verizon.net>
>     Sent: Saturday, October 09, 2021 11:10 AM
>     To: Ron Fraser <rfraser at bluefrog.com>
>     Subject: FW: [Tigers] Tiger rear end
> 
> 
>     Ron,
> 
> 
>     The pumpkins were first dipped in that orangish-red glyptal however they were they painted black on the outside.
> 
> 
>     Buck
> 
> 
> 
>     From: Tigers <tigers-bounces at autox.team.net mailto:tigers-bounces at autox.team.net > On Behalf Of Ron Fraser
>     Sent: Saturday, October 9, 2021 7:45 AM
>     To: 'Joel Martin' <jmartiniii at yahoo.com mailto:jmartiniii at yahoo.com >
>     Cc: tigers at Autox.Team.Net mailto:tigers at Autox.Team.Net
>     Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tiger rear end
> 
> 
>     Joel
> 
>                     The correct red color according to TBON is Glyptal.
> 
>     The rest of the paint scheme looks correct ? chassis black.
> 
>     Ron Fraser
> 
> 
>     From: Tigers <tigers-bounces at autox.team.net mailto:tigers-bounces at autox.team.net > On Behalf Of Joel Martin via Tigers
>     Sent: Saturday, October 09, 2021 10:34 AM
>     To: Tiger List Serve <tigers at autox.team.net mailto:tigers at autox.team.net >
>     Subject: [Tigers] Tiger rear end
> 
> 
>     I have a 1966 MK!A am wondering what correct the rear axel scheme should be.  All semi gloss black or the pumpkin painted a redish or orange per below.
> 
>      
> 
>     [Inline image]
>      If the redish or orange color is correct, does anyone have a rattle can paint code number and brand which would be correct.
> 
>      
> 
>     Regards
> 
>     Joel Martin
> 
>     _______________________________________________
> 
>     tigers at autox.team.net
> 
>     Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>     Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive
> 
>     Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/garywinblad at comcast.net
> 
> 
> 
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From W_Pierzga at msn.com  Sat Oct  9 20:37:45 2021
From: W_Pierzga at msn.com (Wayne Pierzga)
Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2021 02:37:45 +0000
Subject: [Tigers] FW:  Tiger rear end
In-Reply-To: <2023698648.561236.1633797150451@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <1308602757.544861.1633790057415.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
 <1308602757.544861.1633790057415@mail.yahoo.com>
 <001201d7bd1c$482b2500$d8816f00$@bluefrog.com>
 <075c01d7bd1f$c765eaa0$5631bfe0$@verizon.net>
 <003901d7bd24$0b37fd50$21a7f7f0$@bluefrog.com>
 <2023698648.561236.1633797150451@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <BL3PR02MB8068F2FFED27C19D2989A4629FB49@BL3PR02MB8068.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>

Clearly, the answer to the question regarding the color of the pumpkin on the Tiger rear end is that it is painted Chassis Black on all cars EXCEPT pumpkins picked on 31 Oct, which were left in their naturally ripe Glyptal burnt orange color.

Jeez guys get with the program!

Cheers
Wayne

From: Michael Wood [mailto:mwood24020 at aol.com]
Sent: Saturday, October 9, 2021 12:33 PM
To: rfraser at bluefrog.com; tigers at Autox.Team.Net
Subject: Re: [Tigers] FW: Tiger rear end

I've also heard that keeping the pumpkin in just the Glyptal primer (as pictured and typically done during restorations) isn't actually correct and that the diffs/rear end were painted all black. It may have depended on what day the car was assembled...Fridays and Mondays half painted, mid-week all painted, who knows? lol. But, again, most common is the exposed primer on the pumpkin in restored cars.




-----Original Message-----
From: Ron Fraser <rfraser at bluefrog.com>
To: tigers at Autox.Team.Net
Sent: Sat, Oct 9, 2021 8:48 am
Subject: [Tigers] FW: Tiger rear end

Here is a note from Buck

I only have TBON to go by



Ron Fraser



From: Buck Trippel <bucktrippel at verizon.net>
Sent: Saturday, October 09, 2021 11:10 AM
To: Ron Fraser <rfraser at bluefrog.com>
Subject: FW: [Tigers] Tiger rear end



Ron,



The pumpkins were first dipped in that orangish-red glyptal however they were they painted black on the outside.



Buck





From: Tigers <tigers-bounces at autox.team.net<mailto:tigers-bounces at autox.team.net>> On Behalf Of Ron Fraser
Sent: Saturday, October 9, 2021 7:45 AM
To: 'Joel Martin' <jmartiniii at yahoo.com<mailto:jmartiniii at yahoo.com>>
Cc: tigers at Autox.Team.Net<mailto:tigers at Autox.Team.Net>
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tiger rear end



Joel

                The correct red color according to TBON is Glyptal.

The rest of the paint scheme looks correct ? chassis black.

Ron Fraser



From: Tigers <tigers-bounces at autox.team.net<mailto:tigers-bounces at autox.team.net>> On Behalf Of Joel Martin via Tigers
Sent: Saturday, October 09, 2021 10:34 AM
To: Tiger List Serve <tigers at autox.team.net<mailto:tigers at autox.team.net>>
Subject: [Tigers] Tiger rear end



I have a 1966 MK!A am wondering what correct the rear axel scheme should be.  All semi gloss black or the pumpkin painted a redish or orange per below.



[Inline image]
 If the redish or orange color is correct, does anyone have a rattle can paint code number and brand which would be correct.



Regards

Joel Martin
_______________________________________________

tigers at autox.team.net<mailto:tigers at autox.team.net>

Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive

Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/mwood24020 at aol.com

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From atwittsend at verizon.net  Sat Oct  9 21:17:15 2021
From: atwittsend at verizon.net (Tom Witt)
Date: Sat, 9 Oct 2021 20:17:15 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] FW: Tiger rear end
In-Reply-To: <BL3PR02MB8068F2FFED27C19D2989A4629FB49@BL3PR02MB8068.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>
References: <1308602757.544861.1633790057415.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
 <1308602757.544861.1633790057415@mail.yahoo.com>
 <001201d7bd1c$482b2500$d8816f00$@bluefrog.com>
 <075c01d7bd1f$c765eaa0$5631bfe0$@verizon.net>
 <003901d7bd24$0b37fd50$21a7f7f0$@bluefrog.com>
 <2023698648.561236.1633797150451@mail.yahoo.com>
 <BL3PR02MB8068F2FFED27C19D2989A4629FB49@BL3PR02MB8068.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <6243eb11-8d6f-1922-36c3-033ad235e362@verizon.net>

In my Book of Horton (as in Horton hears a Who) it clearly stated that 
the Glyptal was red on Dec. 25th, green on March 17th and on May 1st the 
three red, white and blue Glyptal colors were used. Many assume these 
colors were used on July 4th. But because the cars are British the date 
May 1st is in reference to the forming of the United Kingdom (same 
colors different flag). These special date notations are on the TAC 
certificate (True Anniversary Commemoration) but you have to see them 
under ultra violet light and the box gets checked with invisible ink. ?

Seriously though Glyptal is over $50 a quart and given the very small 
amount needed a rather high price for authenticity.

On 10/9/2021 7:37 PM, Wayne Pierzga via Tigers wrote:
>
> Clearly, the answer to the question regarding the color of the pumpkin 
> on the Tiger rear end is that it is painted Chassis Black on all cars 
> EXCEPT pumpkins picked on 31 Oct, which were left in their naturally 
> ripe Glyptal burnt orange color.
>
> Jeez guys get with the program!
>
> Cheers
>
> Wayne
>
>
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From rfraser at bluefrog.com  Sun Oct 10 13:38:14 2021
From: rfraser at bluefrog.com (Ron Fraser)
Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2021 15:38:14 -0400
Subject: [Tigers] PCV summary
Message-ID: <000001d7be0e$5e666f30$1b334d90$@bluefrog.com>

Parts List 6601131            Mk I

6100538                C3DE-6A664-A                   Hose - PCV

6100669                97331-S                                Clips - Hose 

6100215                C3TZ-6A666-A                    Valve assembly - this
is the early style PCV valve with threads

6100667                378754                                  Adaptor -
this is the brass part

6100668                378766-S                              Adaptor - this
is the rubber grommet in the valve cover

 

Parts List 6601334            Mk II

6100979                C3AZ-6A664-A                   Hose - PCV

6100669                97331-S                                Clips - Hose 

6100825                C5AZ-6A666-A                   Valve assembly - this
is the later style PCV valve with hose fitting

6100667                378754                                  Adaptor -
this is the brass part - not correct for PCV valve with hose fitting

6100668                378766-S                              Adaptor - this
is the rubber grommet

 

There are some problems with these Ford part numbers.

C3DE-6A664-A is wrong - this hose is 3 5/64" long according to the Ford
Master Parts Catalog - this is a 1963 PCV system hose

C3AZ-6A664-A is wrong - this is bulk hose - bulk hose would be horrible for
this short distance

 

I don't know the correct Ford part numbers for either hose.

The PCV hose available today is C6AZ-6A664-N with 2 right angle bends.
This hose can be cut for the brass adaptor style hose.   

See pcv hose picture from Ron Fraser

 

Brass adaptor was made by Weatherhead.           See picture from Terry
Packer with Weatherhead Logo

 

Correct brass Adaptor and PCV valves - see picture from David Franchi - also
note that the PCV valve could have AC Spark Plug stamped on it

 

Derek Daily has stated the his early B19KC engine has the brass adaptor
part.  This seems to support that all 260 engines had the brass Adaptor.

 

I have been told that some Mk II engines have the brass adaptor part.   This
should only be possible if Ford stock piled this part for the Tiger engine
build and they changed to the later style PCV valve system only after using
up the brass adaptor parts.   Since the Mk II Parts List is vague about this
and the Mk II Service Manual shows a cleaning procedure for the PCV valve.
I can see how anyone not an original owner could be confused and purchase
the brass adaptor thinking it was correct.

I'm guessing that some of this confusion with the Parts List is due to
Chrysler's involvement with the Rootes Group and the reassignment of
personnel to other programs.   Well, great discussion, I think we all
learned something but I'm sure there are more questions too.

Thanks to all for their input.

 

Ron Fraser

 

 

 

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From clydemclaughlin at verizon.net  Sun Oct 10 17:17:39 2021
From: clydemclaughlin at verizon.net (clydemclaughlin at verizon.net)
Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2021 23:17:39 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Tigers] rear axle paint
References: <977142402.576548.1633907859084.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <977142402.576548.1633907859084@mail.yahoo.com>

It should be noted that the orange paint is a sealer for cast iron assy's it is on both sides and is used on the inside of many engines. ?what ever color is over it is cosmetic only, but the orange is a sealer
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From Tigers at embarqmail.com  Sun Oct 10 20:50:34 2021
From: Tigers at embarqmail.com (Will Seay)
Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2021 22:50:34 -0400
Subject: [Tigers] PCV summary
In-Reply-To: <000001d7be0e$5e666f30$1b334d90$@bluefrog.com>
References: <000001d7be0e$5e666f30$1b334d90$@bluefrog.com>
Message-ID: <CAMRx0hbC4Cg7jShq28YpAnBNtGxsQNL6HZidMr6-gF6LqyQZnA@mail.gmail.com>

Ron,
My IA, 382001570, came with a PCV valve with a hose fitting.  I'm the
original owner and I know it came that way.  That style of PCV valve must
have been introduced before the MKII and the 289.  I suspect that it
appeared at about the same time that the B19KC engine was introduced.  My
engine is a numbers-matching B19KC.

Will - 382001570
Tigers at embarqmail.com


On Sun, Oct 10, 2021 at 3:38 PM Ron Fraser via Tigers <tigers at autox.team.net>
wrote:

> *Parts List 6601131            Mk I*
>
> 6100538                C3DE-6A664-A                   Hose ? PCV
>
> 6100669                97331-S                                Clips ? Hose
>
> 6100215                C3TZ-6A666-A                    Valve assembly ? *this
> is the early style PCV valve with threads*
>
> 6100667                378754                                  Adaptor ?
> this is the brass part
>
> 6100668                378766-S                              Adaptor ?
> this is the rubber grommet in the valve cover
>
>
>
> *Parts List 6601334            Mk II*
>
> 6100979                C3AZ-6A664-A                   Hose ? PCV
>
> 6100669                97331-S                                Clips ? Hose
>
> 6100825                C5AZ-6A666-A                   Valve assembly ? *this
> is the later style PCV valve with hose fitting*
>
> 6100667                378754                                  Adaptor ?
> this is the brass part *? not correct for PCV valve with hose fitting*
>
> 6100668                378766-S                              Adaptor ?
> this is the rubber grommet
>
>
>
> *There are some problems with these Ford part numbers.*
>
> C3DE-6A664-A is wrong ? this hose is 3 5/64? long according to the Ford
> Master Parts Catalog ? this is a 1963 PCV system hose
>
> C3AZ-6A664-A is wrong ? this is bulk hose ? bulk hose would be horrible
> for this short distance
>
>
>
> I don?t know the correct Ford part numbers for either hose.
>
> The PCV hose available today is C6AZ-6A664-N with 2 right angle bends.
> This hose can be cut for the brass adaptor style hose.
>
> *See pcv hose picture* from Ron Fraser
>
>
>
> Brass adaptor was made by Weatherhead.           *See picture from Terry
> Packer with Weatherhead Logo*
>
>
>
> Correct brass Adaptor and PCV valves ? *see picture from David Franchi* ?
> also note that the PCV valve could have AC Spark Plug stamped on it
>
>
>
> Derek Daily has stated the his early B19KC engine has the brass adaptor
> part.  This seems to support that all 260 engines had the brass Adaptor.
>
>
>
> I have been told that some Mk II engines have the brass adaptor part.
> This should only be possible if Ford stock piled this part for the Tiger
> engine build and they changed to the later style PCV valve system only
> after using up the brass adaptor parts.   Since the Mk II Parts List is
> vague about this and the Mk II Service Manual shows a cleaning procedure
> for the PCV valve.    I can see how anyone not an original owner could be
> confused and purchase the brass adaptor thinking it was correct.
>
> I?m guessing that some of this confusion with the Parts List is due to
> Chrysler?s involvement with the Rootes Group and the reassignment of
> personnel to other programs.   Well, great discussion, I think we all
> learned something but I?m sure there are more questions too.
>
> Thanks to all for their input.
>
>
>
> Ron Fraser
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> tigers at autox.team.net
>
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers
> http://autox.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/tigers at embarqmail.com
>
>
>
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From JCMC2006 at suddenlink.net  Sun Oct 10 21:32:14 2021
From: JCMC2006 at suddenlink.net (Jerry Christopherson)
Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2021 22:32:14 -0500
Subject: [Tigers] PVC Valve
Message-ID: <000901d7be50$95b5cde0$c12169a0$@suddenlink.net>

All this discussion about PVC valves has brought to mind a question I have
had for some time, and that is, what are the differences in all these valves
on the INSIDE.  They have all kinds of different external attachments, but
what is 

 

different about say a 289, 302, 351, 352, etc, etc. on the inside.  They all
work with the vacuum of the engine, varying the volume of vacuum (air) going
into the engine depending on engine rpm burning any blow by.   Anybody have
any actual specs on what is inside any of these?

 

 

Jerry Christopherson

9473187

TAC #58

 

 

 

 

 

 

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From rfraser at bluefrog.com  Mon Oct 11 07:17:09 2021
From: rfraser at bluefrog.com (Ron Fraser)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2021 09:17:09 -0400
Subject: [Tigers] PVC Valve
In-Reply-To: <000901d7be50$95b5cde0$c12169a0$@suddenlink.net>
References: <000901d7be50$95b5cde0$c12169a0$@suddenlink.net>
Message-ID: <000901d7bea2$4daad660$e9008320$@bluefrog.com>

Jerry 

                The only information I have on the internals is from Bob
Mannel's book pg. 4-42

This the early style PCV valves which are serviceable.

The later style with the hose fitting are not serviceable so not sure of the
internal components.

You would have to cut one open to see inside.

 

Ron Fraser

 

 

 

From: Tigers <tigers-bounces at autox.team.net> On Behalf Of Jerry
Christopherson via Tigers
Sent: Sunday, October 10, 2021 11:32 PM
To: tigers at Autox.Team.Net
Subject: [Tigers] PVC Valve

 

All this discussion about PVC valves has brought to mind a question I have
had for some time, and that is, what are the differences in all these valves
on the INSIDE.  They have all kinds of different external attachments, but
what is 

 

different about say a 289, 302, 351, 352, etc, etc. on the inside.  They all
work with the vacuum of the engine, varying the volume of vacuum (air) going
into the engine depending on engine rpm burning any blow by.   Anybody have
any actual specs on what is inside any of these?

 

 

Jerry Christopherson

9473187

TAC #58

 

 

 

 

 

 

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From rfraser at bluefrog.com  Mon Oct 11 07:27:28 2021
From: rfraser at bluefrog.com (Ron Fraser)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2021 09:27:28 -0400
Subject: [Tigers] PCV summary
In-Reply-To: <CAMRx0hbC4Cg7jShq28YpAnBNtGxsQNL6HZidMr6-gF6LqyQZnA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <000001d7be0e$5e666f30$1b334d90$@bluefrog.com>
 <CAMRx0hbC4Cg7jShq28YpAnBNtGxsQNL6HZidMr6-gF6LqyQZnA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <000f01d7bea3$bd1a19b0$374e4d10$@bluefrog.com>

Thank you Will

 

Your B19KC engine is from the Oct 1965 build.

This seems to confirm that Ford changed the Tiger engines to the updated PCV system for the Ford 1966 model year.

 

There will always be some confusion here because the Sunbeam documentation does not seem to be keeping up with the engines configuration changes.

 

Well, nothing like a good mystery

 

Ron Fraser

 

 

From: Will Seay <Tigers at embarqmail.com> 
Sent: Sunday, October 10, 2021 10:51 PM
To: Ron Fraser <rfraser at bluefrog.com>
Cc: Tiger Server <tigers at autox.team.net>
Subject: Re: [Tigers] PCV summary

 

Ron,

My IA, 382001570, came with a PCV valve with a hose fitting.  I'm the original owner and I know it came that way.  That style of PCV valve must have been introduced before the MKII and the 289.  I suspect that it appeared at about the same time that the B19KC engine was introduced.  My engine is a numbers-matching B19KC.

 

Will - 382001570 
Tigers at embarqmail.com <mailto:Tigers at embarqmail.com> 

 

 

On Sun, Oct 10, 2021 at 3:38 PM Ron Fraser via Tigers <tigers at autox.team.net <mailto:tigers at autox.team.net> > wrote:

Parts List 6601131            Mk I

6100538                C3DE-6A664-A                   Hose ? PCV

6100669                97331-S                                Clips ? Hose 

6100215                C3TZ-6A666-A                    Valve assembly ? this is the early style PCV valve with threads

6100667                378754                                  Adaptor ? this is the brass part

6100668                378766-S                              Adaptor ? this is the rubber grommet in the valve cover

 

Parts List 6601334            Mk II

6100979                C3AZ-6A664-A                   Hose ? PCV

6100669                97331-S                                Clips ? Hose 

6100825                C5AZ-6A666-A                   Valve assembly ? this is the later style PCV valve with hose fitting

6100667                378754                                  Adaptor ? this is the brass part ? not correct for PCV valve with hose fitting

6100668                378766-S                              Adaptor ? this is the rubber grommet

 

There are some problems with these Ford part numbers.

C3DE-6A664-A is wrong ? this hose is 3 5/64? long according to the Ford Master Parts Catalog ? this is a 1963 PCV system hose

C3AZ-6A664-A is wrong ? this is bulk hose ? bulk hose would be horrible for this short distance

 

I don?t know the correct Ford part numbers for either hose.

The PCV hose available today is C6AZ-6A664-N with 2 right angle bends.   This hose can be cut for the brass adaptor style hose.   

See pcv hose picture from Ron Fraser

 

Brass adaptor was made by Weatherhead.           See picture from Terry Packer with Weatherhead Logo

 

Correct brass Adaptor and PCV valves ? see picture from David Franchi ? also note that the PCV valve could have AC Spark Plug stamped on it

 

Derek Daily has stated the his early B19KC engine has the brass adaptor part.  This seems to support that all 260 engines had the brass Adaptor.

 

I have been told that some Mk II engines have the brass adaptor part.   This should only be possible if Ford stock piled this part for the Tiger engine build and they changed to the later style PCV valve system only after using up the brass adaptor parts.   Since the Mk II Parts List is vague about this and the Mk II Service Manual shows a cleaning procedure for the PCV valve.    I can see how anyone not an original owner could be confused and purchase the brass adaptor thinking it was correct.

I?m guessing that some of this confusion with the Parts List is due to Chrysler?s involvement with the Rootes Group and the reassignment of personnel to other programs.   Well, great discussion, I think we all learned something but I?m sure there are more questions too.

Thanks to all for their input.

 

Ron Fraser

 

 

 

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From rfraser at bluefrog.com  Mon Oct 11 08:40:56 2021
From: rfraser at bluefrog.com (Ron Fraser)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2021 10:40:56 -0400
Subject: [Tigers] PCV hose
Message-ID: <002501d7beae$00ce3560$026aa020$@bluefrog.com>

I found that Scott Drake and Dan Carpenter are making a hose that can be
used for the Mustang air cleaner or the PCV valve early style

 

C4AE-6853-B

Ford Master Parts Catalog also list this hose number for air cleaner and
PCV.

 

I have no idea if this hose and part number is correct for the Tiger engine.

I'm guessing it needs to be cut to length but again I don't know.

I'm simple presenting and option.

 

Ron Fraser

 

 

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From rfraser at bluefrog.com  Mon Oct 11 09:16:04 2021
From: rfraser at bluefrog.com (Ron Fraser)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2021 11:16:04 -0400
Subject: [Tigers] PCV hose
In-Reply-To: <002501d7beae$00ce3560$026aa020$@bluefrog.com>
References: <002501d7beae$00ce3560$026aa020$@bluefrog.com>
Message-ID: <003001d7beb2$e98a4c90$bc9ee5b0$@bluefrog.com>

If anyone has an original PCV hose and you can discern all or part of an ink
stamp on that hose, let us know.

 

Ron Fraser 

 

From: Tigers <tigers-bounces at autox.team.net> On Behalf Of Ron Fraser
Sent: Monday, October 11, 2021 10:41 AM
To: tigers at Autox.Team.Net
Subject: [Tigers] PCV hose

 

I found that Scott Drake and Dan Carpenter are making a hose that can be
used for the Mustang air cleaner or the PCV valve early style

 

C4AE-6853-B

Ford Master Parts Catalog also list this hose number for air cleaner and
PCV.

 

I have no idea if this hose and part number is correct for the Tiger engine.

I'm guessing it needs to be cut to length but again I don't know.

I'm simple presenting and option.

 

Ron Fraser

 

 

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From mwood24020 at aol.com  Mon Oct 11 09:52:55 2021
From: mwood24020 at aol.com (Michael Wood)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2021 15:52:55 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Tigers] PVC Valve
In-Reply-To: <000901d7be50$95b5cde0$c12169a0$@suddenlink.net>
References: <000901d7be50$95b5cde0$c12169a0$@suddenlink.net>
Message-ID: <1326273904.805022.1633967575290@mail.yahoo.com>

They all have different flow and vacuum transition characteristics and, yes, it is very possible to get it wrong, if buying something off the shelf. Don't ask me how I know this... :)
Mike


-----Original Message-----
From: Jerry Christopherson via Tigers <tigers at autox.team.net>
To: tigers at Autox.Team.Net
Sent: Sun, Oct 10, 2021 8:37 pm
Subject: [Tigers] PVC Valve

<!--#yiv2900624818 _filtered {}#yiv2900624818 #yiv2900624818 p.yiv2900624818MsoNormal, #yiv2900624818 li.yiv2900624818MsoNormal, #yiv2900624818 div.yiv2900624818MsoNormal {margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri", "sans-serif";}#yiv2900624818 a:link, #yiv2900624818 span.yiv2900624818MsoHyperlink {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv2900624818 a:visited, #yiv2900624818 span.yiv2900624818MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:purple;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv2900624818 span.yiv2900624818EmailStyle17 {font-family:"Arial", "sans-serif";color:windowtext;}#yiv2900624818 .yiv2900624818MsoChpDefault {font-family:"Calibri", "sans-serif";} _filtered {}#yiv2900624818 div.yiv2900624818WordSection1 {}-->
All this discussion about PVC valves has brought to mind a question I have had for some time, and that is, what are the differences in all these valves on the INSIDE.? They have all kinds of different external attachments, but what is 

 ?

different about say a 289, 302, 351, 352, etc, etc. on the inside.? They all work with the vacuum of the engine, varying the volume of vacuum (air) going into the engine depending on engine rpm burning any blow by. ??Anybody have any actual specs on what is inside any of these?

 ?

 ?

Jerry Christopherson

9473187

TAC #58

 ?

 ?

 ?

 ?

 ?

 ?
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From orr4sale at sbcglobal.net  Mon Oct 11 10:09:09 2021
From: orr4sale at sbcglobal.net (D or G at sbc)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2021 16:09:09 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Tigers] PCV hose
In-Reply-To: <003001d7beb2$e98a4c90$bc9ee5b0$@bluefrog.com>
References: <002501d7beae$00ce3560$026aa020$@bluefrog.com>
 <003001d7beb2$e98a4c90$bc9ee5b0$@bluefrog.com>
Message-ID: <810732108.809930.1633968549401@mail.yahoo.com>

 That number on the hose is probably the correct number for the Tiger, the hose is marked with the Ford engineering number C4AE-6853-B which should be the C3DE-6A664-A Tiger part number. 
Since this (C4AE-6853-B) hose is correct for Falcons, Mustangs, Galaxies etc. it should also be correct for the Tiger.
David

    On Monday, October 11, 2021, 08:18:41 AM PDT, Ron Fraser <rfraser at bluefrog.com> wrote:  
 
 
If anyone has an original PCV hose and you can discern all or part of an ink stamp on that hose, let us know.

 ?

Ron Fraser 

 ?

From: Tigers <tigers-bounces at autox.team.net> On Behalf Of Ron Fraser
Sent: Monday, October 11, 2021 10:41 AM
To: tigers at Autox.Team.Net
Subject: [Tigers] PCV hose

 ?

I found that Scott Drake and Dan Carpenter are making a hose that can be used for the Mustang air cleaner or the PCV valve early style

 ?

C4AE-6853-B

Ford Master Parts Catalog also list this hose number for air cleaner and PCV.

 ?

I have no idea if this hose and part number is correct for the Tiger engine.

I?m guessing it needs to be cut to length but again I don?t know.

I?m simple presenting and option.

 ?

Ron Fraser

 ?

 ?
_______________________________________________

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From orr4sale at sbcglobal.net  Mon Oct 11 10:14:26 2021
From: orr4sale at sbcglobal.net (D or G at sbc)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2021 16:14:26 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Tigers] PCV hose better photo
In-Reply-To: <810732108.809930.1633968549401@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <002501d7beae$00ce3560$026aa020$@bluefrog.com>
 <003001d7beb2$e98a4c90$bc9ee5b0$@bluefrog.com>
 <810732108.809930.1633968549401@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1966352617.821310.1633968866391@mail.yahoo.com>

 Better photo of the repro hose.
David

https://cdn.mysagestore.com/bee783ee2974595487357e195ef38ca2/contents/C4AE-6853/C4AE-6853.jpg
    On Monday, October 11, 2021, 09:09:58 AM PDT, D or G at sbc via Tigers <tigers at autox.team.net> wrote:  
 
  That number on the hose is probably the correct number for the Tiger, the hose is marked with the Ford engineering number C4AE-6853-B which should be the C3DE-6A664-A Tiger part number. 
Since this (C4AE-6853-B) hose is correct for Falcons, Mustangs, Galaxies etc. it should also be correct for the Tiger.
David

    On Monday, October 11, 2021, 08:18:41 AM PDT, Ron Fraser <rfraser at bluefrog.com> wrote:  
 
 
If anyone has an original PCV hose and you can discern all or part of an ink stamp on that hose, let us know.

 ?

Ron Fraser 

 ?

From: Tigers <tigers-bounces at autox.team.net> On Behalf Of Ron Fraser
Sent: Monday, October 11, 2021 10:41 AM
To: tigers at Autox.Team.Net
Subject: [Tigers] PCV hose

 ?

I found that Scott Drake and Dan Carpenter are making a hose that can be used for the Mustang air cleaner or the PCV valve early style

 ?

C4AE-6853-B

Ford Master Parts Catalog also list this hose number for air cleaner and PCV.

 ?

I have no idea if this hose and part number is correct for the Tiger engine.

I?m guessing it needs to be cut to length but again I don?t know.

I?m simple presenting and option.

 ?

Ron Fraser

 ?

 ?
_______________________________________________

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From rfraser at bluefrog.com  Mon Oct 11 11:17:07 2021
From: rfraser at bluefrog.com (Ron Fraser)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2021 13:17:07 -0400
Subject: [Tigers] PCV hose better photo
In-Reply-To: <1966352617.821310.1633968866391@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <002501d7beae$00ce3560$026aa020$@bluefrog.com>
 <003001d7beb2$e98a4c90$bc9ee5b0$@bluefrog.com>
 <810732108.809930.1633968549401@mail.yahoo.com>
 <1966352617.821310.1633968866391@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <004301d7bec3$d2b9efa0$782dcee0$@bluefrog.com>

David

                Much better photo.   I did not find a length for that hose so I believe is has to be cut for the PCV system

 

According to my Ford Master Parts Catalog, the C3DE-6A664-A hose is 3 5/64? long ? too short.

I would think that Ford updated the part number for the new 1964 PCV system with its different parts.

 

When I attempted to remake the brass adaptor and hose system, the hose I made is around 8 ?? long.

 

Just hoping that someone has an original PCV hose with some visible ink stamp.

 

Ron Fraser

 

From: D or G at sbc <orr4sale at sbcglobal.net> 
Sent: Monday, October 11, 2021 12:14 PM
To: tigers at autox.team.net; Ron Fraser <rfraser at bluefrog.com>
Subject: Re: [Tigers] PCV hose better photo

 

Better photo of the repro hose.

 

David

 

https://cdn.mysagestore.com/bee783ee2974595487357e195ef38ca2/contents/C4AE-6853/C4AE-6853.jpg

 

On Monday, October 11, 2021, 09:09:58 AM PDT, D or G at sbc via Tigers <tigers at autox.team.net <mailto:tigers at autox.team.net> > wrote: 

 

 

That number on the hose is probably the correct number for the Tiger, the hose is marked with the Ford engineering number C4AE-6853-B which should be the C3DE-6A664-A Tiger part number. 

Since this (C4AE-6853-B) hose is correct for Falcons, Mustangs, Galaxies etc. it should also be correct for the Tiger.

 

David

 

On Monday, October 11, 2021, 08:18:41 AM PDT, Ron Fraser <rfraser at bluefrog.com <mailto:rfraser at bluefrog.com> > wrote: 

 

 

If anyone has an original PCV hose and you can discern all or part of an ink stamp on that hose, let us know.

 

Ron Fraser 

 

From: Tigers <tigers-bounces at autox.team.net <mailto:tigers-bounces at autox.team.net> > On Behalf Of Ron Fraser
Sent: Monday, October 11, 2021 10:41 AM
To: tigers at Autox.Team.Net <mailto:tigers at Autox.Team.Net> 
Subject: [Tigers] PCV hose

 

I found that Scott Drake and Dan Carpenter are making a hose that can be used for the Mustang air cleaner or the PCV valve early style

 

C4AE-6853-B

Ford Master Parts Catalog also list this hose number for air cleaner and PCV.

 

I have no idea if this hose and part number is correct for the Tiger engine.

I?m guessing it needs to be cut to length but again I don?t know.

I?m simple presenting and option.

 

Ron Fraser

 

 

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From rfraser at bluefrog.com  Mon Oct 11 15:30:38 2021
From: rfraser at bluefrog.com (Ron Fraser)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2021 17:30:38 -0400
Subject: [Tigers] PCV
Message-ID: <006701d7bee7$3ccd0170$b6670450$@bluefrog.com>

Well, I found a picture of the C3TZ-6A666-A PCV valve and it is wrong for
the Tiger engine too.

This is for the 1963 PCV system.

 

1963 system from Bob Mannel's Book pg. 3-45, that should be the C3DE-6A664-A
PCV hose @ 3 5/64" long.

 

These are not Tiger engine parts.

 

I'm going to guess these were the part numbers supplied to Rootes and the up
to date part numbers were lagging behind in the information exchange.

 

Ron Fraser

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From rfraser at bluefrog.com  Mon Oct 11 15:48:52 2021
From: rfraser at bluefrog.com (Ron Fraser)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2021 17:48:52 -0400
Subject: [Tigers] air cleaner
Message-ID: <000001d7bee9$c89b3030$59d19090$@bluefrog.com>

Brian Nickels sent me these air cleaner pictures and the numbers stamped
into the top cover are new to me.

 

Anyone know about them.

 

Ron Fraser

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From wjtwgoodman at aol.com  Mon Oct 11 16:03:20 2021
From: wjtwgoodman at aol.com (Warren Goodman)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2021 22:03:20 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Tigers] Tigers Digest, Vol 14, Issue 284
In-Reply-To: <mailman.14232.1633988955.5555.tigers@autox.team.net>
References: <mailman.14232.1633988955.5555.tigers@autox.team.net>
Message-ID: <1913008512.892314.1633989801007@mail.yahoo.com>

Regarding the part number on the AC housing.?The 69024 is the part number on the drawing I have .??The H6 was added late on in the process for the later cars including at least the last couple hundred cars as I recall plus the MK2S.?
The picture with the enlarged zoom feature is a picture that Norm added to the CAT forum but later removed . He told me that the number is supposed to be facing forward and that the zoomed shot is of an LAT chrome top only option unit.?
How do I know about this, good question I had to decide what number to put on the reproductions and decided the greatest number of cars should get to 69024 .??
I've seen several late cars and MK2s that have what's said to be the original housing and they have the H6 following the standard part number.?
We've got about 20 reproductions, left so get them while they're available.?

Sent from the all new AOL app for Android 
 
  On Mon, Oct 11, 2021 at 2:52 PM, tigers-request at autox.team.net<tigers-request at autox.team.net> wrote:   Send Tigers mailing list submissions to
??? tigers at autox.team.net

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
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or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of Tigers digest..."


Today's Topics:

? 1. air cleaner (Ron Fraser)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2021 17:48:52 -0400
From: "Ron Fraser" <rfraser at bluefrog.com>
To: <tigers at Autox.Team.Net>
Subject: [Tigers] air cleaner
Message-ID: <000001d7bee9$c89b3030$59d19090$@bluefrog.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Brian Nickels sent me these air cleaner pictures and the numbers stamped
into the top cover are new to me.

 

Anyone know about them.

 

Ron Fraser

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------------------------------

Subject: Digest Footer

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From atwittsend at verizon.net  Mon Oct 11 16:22:49 2021
From: atwittsend at verizon.net (Tom Witt)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2021 15:22:49 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] air cleaner
In-Reply-To: <000001d7bee9$c89b3030$59d19090$@bluefrog.com>
References: <000001d7bee9$c89b3030$59d19090$@bluefrog.com>
Message-ID: <6a2987bb-b2f8-0991-c299-31a70a62ca7c@verizon.net>

My air cleaner top is off the car and convenient to access. The number 
is 69024 but there is no H6 . As is obvious mine is not chromed. If (a 
big if) the air cleaner is original to the car then it is off the 
101stTiger built. But given the engine and rear axle aren't I wouldn't 
count to that.??? Tom

On 10/11/2021 2:48 PM, Ron Fraser wrote:
>
> Brian Nickels sent me these air cleaner pictures and the numbers 
> stamped into the top cover are new to me.
>
> Anyone know about them.
>
> Ron Fraser
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> tigers at autox.team.net
>
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/atwittsend at verizon.net
>
>
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From jimdamelio at verizon.net  Mon Oct 11 16:28:40 2021
From: jimdamelio at verizon.net (jimdamelio)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2021 18:28:40 -0400
Subject: [Tigers] Tigers Digest, Vol 14, Issue 284
In-Reply-To: <1913008512.892314.1633989801007@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <mailman.37.1633991319.5552.tigers@autox.team.net>

My air cleaner has 69024 A6 stamped on it.? Came on 1679 MKIA.? So A6 must have been for earlier cars??Jim DSent from my Galaxy
-------- Original message --------From: Warren Goodman via Tigers <tigers at autox.team.net> Date: 10/11/21  6:03 PM  (GMT-05:00) To: tigers at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tigers Digest, Vol 14, Issue 284 Regarding the part number on the AC housing.?The 69024 is the part number on the drawing I have .??The H6 was added late on in the process for the later cars including at least the last couple hundred cars as I recall plus the MK2S.?The picture with the enlarged zoom feature is a picture that Norm added to the CAT forum but later removed . He told me that the number is supposed to be facing forward and that the zoomed shot is of an LAT chrome top only option unit.?How do I know about this, good question I had to decide what number to put on the reproductions and decided the greatest number of cars should get to 69024 .??I've seen several late cars and MK2s that have what's said to be the original housing and they have the H6 following the standard part number.?We've got about 20 reproductions, left so get them while they're available.?Sent from the all new AOL app for Android    On Mon, Oct 11, 2021 at 2:52 PM, tigers-request at autoxteam.net<tigers-request at autox.team.net> wrote:   Send Tigers mailing list submissions to??? tigers at autox.team.netTo subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit??? http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigersor, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to??? tigers-request at autox.team.netYou can reach the person managing the list at??? tigers-owner at autox.team.netWhen replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specificthan "Re: Contents of Tigers digest..."Today's Topics:?  1. air cleaner (Ron Fraser)----------------------------------------------------------------------Message: 1Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2021 17:48:52 -0400From: "Ron Fraser" <rfraser at bluefrog.com>To: <tigers at Autox.Team.Net>Subject: [Tigers] air cleanerMessage-ID: <000001d7bee9$c89b3030$59d19090$@bluefrog.com>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"Brian Nickels sent me these air cleaner pictures and the numbers stampedinto the top cover are new to me. Anyone know about them. Ron Fraser-------------- next part --------------An HTML attachment was scrubbed...URL: <http://autox.team.net/pipermail/tigers/attachments/20211011/3408ff1f/attachment.htm>-------------- next part --------------A non-text attachment was scrubbed...Name: air cleaner.pngType: image/pngSize: 1045874 bytesDesc: not availableURL: <http://autox.team.net/pipermail/tigers/attachments/20211011/3408ff1f/attachment.png>-------------- next part --------------A non-text attachment was scrubbed...Name: air cleaner 2.pngType: image/pngSize: 1206829 bytesDesc: not availableURL: <http://autox.team.net/pipermail/tigers/attachments/20211011/3408ff1f/attachment-0001.png>------------------------------Subject: Digest Footer_______________________________________________Tigers mailing listTigers at autox.team.nethttp://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigersDonate: http://www.team.net/donate.htmlArchive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive------------------------------End of Tigers Digest, Vol 14, Issue 284***************************************  
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From jimdamelio at verizon.net  Mon Oct 11 16:32:31 2021
From: jimdamelio at verizon.net (jimdamelio)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2021 18:32:31 -0400
Subject: [Tigers] Air Cleaner
In-Reply-To: <1913008512.892314.1633989801007@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <mailman.38.1633991553.5552.tigers@autox.team.net>

Forgot to attach the picture?Sent from my Galaxy
-------- Original message --------From: Warren Goodman via Tigers <tigers at autox.team.net> Date: 10/11/21  6:03 PM  (GMT-05:00) To: tigers at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tigers Digest, Vol 14, Issue 284 Regarding the part number on the AC housing.?The 69024 is the part number on the drawing I have .??The H6 was added late on in the process for the later cars including at least the last couple hundred cars as I recall plus the MK2S.?The picture with the enlarged zoom feature is a picture that Norm added to the CAT forum but later removed . He told me that the number is supposed to be facing forward and that the zoomed shot is of an LAT chrome top only option unit.?How do I know about this, good question I had to decide what number to put on the reproductions and decided the greatest number of cars should get to 69024 .??I've seen several late cars and MK2s that have what's said to be the original housing and they have the H6 following the standard part number.?We've got about 20 reproductions, left so get them while they're available.?Sent from the all new AOL app for Android    On Mon, Oct 11, 2021 at 2:52 PM, tigers-request at autoxteam.net<tigers-request at autox.team.net> wrote:   Send Tigers mailing list submissions to??? tigers at autox.team.netTo subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit??? http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigersor, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to??? tigers-request at autox.team.netYou can reach the person managing the list at??? tigers-owner at autox.team.netWhen replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specificthan "Re: Contents of Tigers digest..."Today's Topics:?  1. air cleaner (Ron Fraser)----------------------------------------------------------------------Message: 1Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2021 17:48:52 -0400From: "Ron Fraser" <rfraser at bluefrog.com>To: <tigers at Autox.Team.Net>Subject: [Tigers] air cleanerMessage-ID: <000001d7bee9$c89b3030$59d19090$@bluefrog.com>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"Brian Nickels sent me these air cleaner pictures and the numbers stampedinto the top cover are new to me. Anyone know about them. Ron Fraser-------------- next part --------------An HTML attachment was scrubbed...URL: <http://autox.team.net/pipermail/tigers/attachments/20211011/3408ff1f/attachment.htm>-------------- next part --------------A non-text attachment was scrubbed...Name: air cleaner.pngType: image/pngSize: 1045874 bytesDesc: not availableURL: <http://autox.team.net/pipermail/tigers/attachments/20211011/3408ff1f/attachment.png>-------------- next part --------------A non-text attachment was scrubbed...Name: air cleaner 2.pngType: image/pngSize: 1206829 bytesDesc: not availableURL: <http://autox.team.net/pipermail/tigers/attachments/20211011/3408ff1f/attachment-0001.png>------------------------------Subject: Digest Footer_______________________________________________Tigers mailing listTigers at autox.team.nethttp://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigersDonate: http://www.team.net/donate.htmlArchive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive------------------------------End of Tigers Digest, Vol 14, Issue 284***************************************  
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From wjtwgoodman at aol.com  Mon Oct 11 16:43:35 2021
From: wjtwgoodman at aol.com (Warren Goodman)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2021 22:43:35 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Tigers] Tigers Digest, Vol 14, Issue 284
References: <1913008512.892314.1633989801007@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <270683544.900082.1633992215608@mail.yahoo.com>

Jim, I can only speak to the several years I studied the West coast cars I could get my eyes on. Tigers United both CAT and STOA sponsored. I'd have to go back and look through all my pictures and notes but by far the plain 69024 was the most popular number. I had not seen Norms pictured one nor any like it.? Lots may exist with different numbers hidden under several coats of paint as well.? When I was told the air cleaner housing was on backwards, I couldn't help but laughed at and commented,? "oh yeah I can see those guys in the factory actually putting that much attention to such a minute detail."? ?
The off the cuff H6 comment was a ballpark.? Have not seen you're A6.? Hard to get a feel on the numbers as they got swapped around on a lot of cars. I do judge my H6 on a good number of known late cars.?

Sent from the all new AOL app for Android 
 
  On Mon, Oct 11, 2021 at 3:28 PM, jimdamelio<jimdamelio at verizon.net> wrote:   My air cleaner has 69024 A6 stamped on it.? Came on 1679 MKIA.? So A6 must have been for earlier cars??
Jim D

Sent from my Galaxy

-------- Original message --------From: Warren Goodman via Tigers <tigers at autox.team.net> Date: 10/11/21 6:03 PM (GMT-05:00) To: tigers at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tigers Digest, Vol 14, Issue 284 
Regarding the part number on the AC housing.?The 69024 is the part number on the drawing I have .??The H6 was added late on in the process for the later cars including at least the last couple hundred cars as I recall plus the MK2S.?
The picture with the enlarged zoom feature is a picture that Norm added to the CAT forum but later removed . He told me that the number is supposed to be facing forward and that the zoomed shot is of an LAT chrome top only option unit.?
How do I know about this, good question I had to decide what number to put on the reproductions and decided the greatest number of cars should get to 69024 .??
I've seen several late cars and MK2s that have what's said to be the original housing and they have the H6 following the standard part number.?
We've got about 20 reproductions, left so get them while they're available.?

Sent from the all new AOL app for Android 
 
  On Mon, Oct 11, 2021 at 2:52 PM, tigers-request at autoxteam.net<tigers-request at autox.team.net> wrote:   Send Tigers mailing list submissions to
??? tigers at autox.team.net

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
??? http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
??? tigers-request at autox.team.net

You can reach the person managing the list at
??? tigers-owner at autox.team.net

When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of Tigers digest..."


Today's Topics:

? 1. air cleaner (Ron Fraser)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2021 17:48:52 -0400
From: "Ron Fraser" <rfraser at bluefrog.com>
To: <tigers at Autox.Team.Net>
Subject: [Tigers] air cleaner
Message-ID: <000001d7bee9$c89b3030$59d19090$@bluefrog.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Brian Nickels sent me these air cleaner pictures and the numbers stamped
into the top cover are new to me.

 

Anyone know about them.

 

Ron Fraser

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------------------------------

Subject: Digest Footer

_______________________________________________
Tigers mailing list
Tigers at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers

Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive


------------------------------

End of Tigers Digest, Vol 14, Issue 284
***************************************
  
  
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From blance598 at gmail.com  Mon Oct 11 16:44:17 2021
From: blance598 at gmail.com (Lance Beauchamp)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2021 18:44:17 -0400
Subject: [Tigers] Pictures
Message-ID: <CACQC2nV+mZPHeJVCr+E0HdMks6rYZ+t-Sg28K+pPLRt7_Zkfwg@mail.gmail.com>

Is it only certain people that get the pics, I have never seen one.  Of any
commentary. What am I doing wrong.
I thought I had an original air cleaner housing and I have No numbers on
it. Not chromed, but powder coated
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From garywinblad at comcast.net  Mon Oct 11 17:03:59 2021
From: garywinblad at comcast.net (GARY WINBLAD)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2021 19:03:59 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Tigers] Air Cleaner
In-Reply-To: <20211011223326.34B1DA0AF3@autox.team.net>
References: <1913008512.892314.1633989801007@mail.yahoo.com>
 <20211011223326.34B1DA0AF3@autox.team.net>
Message-ID: <2095992097.361155.1633993439922@connect.xfinity.com>

B94790622 has 7969024...
Wow, those numbers are all over the map!
Pretty sure it is the original to the car...
Gary


>     On 10/11/2021 6:32 PM jimdamelio via Tigers <tigers at autox.team.net> wrote:
> 
> 
>     Forgot to attach the picture 
> 
> 
> 
>     Sent from my Galaxy
> 
> 
>     -------- Original message --------
>     From: Warren Goodman via Tigers <tigers at autox.team.net>
>     Date: 10/11/21 6:03 PM (GMT-05:00)
>     To: tigers at autox.team.net
>     Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tigers Digest, Vol 14, Issue 284
> 
>     Regarding the part number on the AC housing. 
>     The 69024 is the part number on the drawing I have .  
>     The H6 was added late on in the process for the later cars including at least the last couple hundred cars as I recall plus the MK2S. 
> 
>     The picture with the enlarged zoom feature is a picture that Norm added to the CAT forum but later removed . He told me that the number is supposed to be facing forward and that the zoomed shot is of an LAT chrome top only option unit. 
> 
>     How do I know about this, good question I had to decide what number to put on the reproductions and decided the greatest number of cars should get to 69024 .  
> 
>     I've seen several late cars and MK2s that have what's said to be the original housing and they have the H6 following the standard part number. 
> 
>     We've got about 20 reproductions, left so get them while they're available. 
> 
>     Sent from the all new AOL app for Android https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.aol.mobile.aolapp
> 
> 
>         > >         On Mon, Oct 11, 2021 at 2:52 PM, tigers-request at autoxteam.net
> >         <tigers-request at autox.team.net> wrote:
> > 
> > 
> >            Send Tigers mailing list submissions to
> >                tigers at autox.team.net mailto:tigers at autox.team.net
> > 
> >            To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> >                http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers
> >            or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> >                tigers-request at autox.team.net mailto:tigers-request at autox.team.net
> > 
> >            You can reach the person managing the list at
> >                tigers-owner at autox.team.net mailto:tigers-owner at autox.team.net
> > 
> >            When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> >            than "Re: Contents of Tigers digest..."
> > 
> > 
> >            Today's Topics:
> > 
> >              1. air cleaner (Ron Fraser)
> > 
> > 
> >            ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > 
> >            Message: 1
> >            Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2021 17:48:52 -0400
> >            From: "Ron Fraser" <rfraser at bluefrog.com mailto:rfraser at bluefrog.com >
> >            To: <tigers at Autox.Team.Net mailto:tigers at Autox.Team.Net >
> >            Subject: [Tigers] air cleaner
> >            Message-ID: <000001d7bee9$c89b3030$59d19090$@bluefrog.com>
> >            Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> > 
> >            Brian Nickels sent me these air cleaner pictures and the numbers stamped
> >            into the top cover are new to me.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >            Anyone know about them.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >            Ron Fraser
> > 
> >            -------------- next part --------------
> >            An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> >            URL: <http://autox.team.net/pipermail/tigers/attachments/20211011/3408ff1f/attachment.htm>
> >            -------------- next part --------------
> >            A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
> >            Name: air cleaner.png
> >            Type: image/png
> >            Size: 1045874 bytes
> >            Desc: not available
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> >            -------------- next part --------------
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> > 
> >            ------------------------------
> > 
> >            Subject: Digest Footer
> > 
> >            _______________________________________________
> >            Tigers mailing list
> >            Tigers at autox.team.net mailto:Tigers at autox.team.net
> >            http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers
> > 
> >            Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> >            Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive http://autox.teamnet/archive
> > 
> > 
> >            ------------------------------
> > 
> >            End of Tigers Digest, Vol 14, Issue 284
> >            ***************************************
> > 
> >     >     _______________________________________________
> 
>     tigers at autox.team.net
> 
>     Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>     Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive
> 
>     Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/garywinblad at comcast.net
> 
> 
> 
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From fast427 at sbcglobal.net  Mon Oct 11 17:04:12 2021
From: fast427 at sbcglobal.net (Donald Antilla)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2021 19:04:12 -0400
Subject: [Tigers] Don's photo- GT Tiger   Air Cleaner
References: <AED42EA0-77DE-4461-ADCF-68CEBDDE02B7.ref@sbcglobal.net>
Message-ID: <AED42EA0-77DE-4461-ADCF-68CEBDDE02B7@sbcglobal.net>

Tiger people: Here is a closeup of the air cleaner that came with the GT tiger I owned. This GT tiger is the first Serial Number off the Jensen line according to Norm Miller.

 

From: Tigers <tigers-bounces at autox.team.net> on behalf of jimdamelio via Tigers <tigers at autox.team.net>
Reply-To: jimdamelio <jimdamelio at verizon.net>
Date: Monday, October 11, 2021 at 6:32 PM
To: Warren Goodman <wjtwgoodman at aol.com>, <tigers at autox.team.net>
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Air Cleaner

 

Forgot to attach the picture 

 

 

 

Sent from my Galaxy

 

 

-------- Original message --------

From: Warren Goodman via Tigers <tigers at autox.team.net> 

Date: 10/11/21 6:03 PM (GMT-05:00) 

To: tigers at autox.team.net 

Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tigers Digest, Vol 14, Issue 284 

 

Regarding the part number on the AC housing. 

The 69024 is the part number on the drawing I have .  

The H6 was added late on in the process for the later cars including at least the last couple hundred cars as I recall plus the MK2S. 

 

The picture with the enlarged zoom feature is a picture that Norm added to the CAT forum but later removed . He told me that the number is supposed to be facing forward and that the zoomed shot is of an LAT chrome top only option unit. 

 

How do I know about this, good question I had to decide what number to put on the reproductions and decided the greatest number of cars should get to 69024 .  

 

I've seen several late cars and MK2s that have what's said to be the original housing and they have the H6 following the standard part number. 

 

We've got about 20 reproductions, left so get them while they're available. 

Sent from the all new AOL app for Android

 

On Mon, Oct 11, 2021 at 2:52 PM, tigers-request at autoxteam.net

<tigers-request at autox.team.net> wrote:

Send Tigers mailing list submissions to

    tigers at autox.team.net

 

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit

    http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers

or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to

    tigers-request at autox.team.net

 

You can reach the person managing the list at

    tigers-owner at autox.team.net

 

When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific

than "Re: Contents of Tigers digest..."

 

 

Today's Topics:

 

  1. air cleaner (Ron Fraser)

 

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Message: 1

Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2021 17:48:52 -0400

From: "Ron Fraser" <rfraser at bluefrog.com>

To: <tigers at Autox.Team.Net>

Subject: [Tigers] air cleaner

Message-ID: <000001d7bee9$c89b3030$59d19090$@bluefrog.com>

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 

Brian Nickels sent me these air cleaner pictures and the numbers stamped

into the top cover are new to me.

 

 

 

Anyone know about them.

 

 

 

Ron Fraser

 

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------------------------------

 

Subject: Digest Footer

 

_______________________________________________

Tigers mailing list

Tigers at autox.team.net

http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers

 

Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html

Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive

 

 

------------------------------

 

End of Tigers Digest, Vol 14, Issue 284

***************************************

_______________________________________________ tigers at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/fast427 at sbcglobal.net 

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From rfraser at bluefrog.com  Mon Oct 11 17:05:36 2021
From: rfraser at bluefrog.com (Ron Fraser)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2021 19:05:36 -0400
Subject: [Tigers] Pictures
In-Reply-To: <CACQC2nV+mZPHeJVCr+E0HdMks6rYZ+t-Sg28K+pPLRt7_Zkfwg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACQC2nV+mZPHeJVCr+E0HdMks6rYZ+t-Sg28K+pPLRt7_Zkfwg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <001b01d7bef4$815a37b0$840ea710$@bluefrog.com>

Lance

                There seems to be a few people who do not get pictures.   I have no idea why they are picture challenged.

My air cleaner has no numbers as far as I can tell.

I will take it off tomorrow and take a closer look.

 

Ron Fraser

 

From: Tigers <tigers-bounces at autox.team.net> On Behalf Of Lance Beauchamp via Tigers
Sent: Monday, October 11, 2021 6:44 PM
To: Tiger Club. Submission <tigers at autox.team.net>
Subject: [Tigers] Pictures

 

Is it only certain people that get the pics, I have never seen one.  Of any commentary. What am I doing wrong. 

I thought I had an original air cleaner housing and I have No numbers on it. Not chromed, but powder coated

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From bucktrippel at verizon.net  Mon Oct 11 17:21:56 2021
From: bucktrippel at verizon.net (Buck Trippel)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2021 16:21:56 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] air cleaner
In-Reply-To: <000001d7bee9$c89b3030$59d19090$@bluefrog.com>
References: <000001d7bee9$c89b3030$59d19090$@bluefrog.com>
Message-ID: <0a5e01d7bef6$c9286920$5b793b60$@verizon.net>

Ron,

 

To answer what I know about your question, the Rootes drawing of the Tiger
air cleaner (which I believe was furnished by Lucas??) in the Rootes Archive
in the UK shows a number of components labeled with their individual part
number in the "6902X" format including the piece with the "69024" stamped on
it. (Those parts included 7969025, 7969026, 7969028, 7969029, 7969030, etc)
These numbers all refer to the various individual pieces that went into
building the air cleaner. 

 

That same Rootes drawing even specifies the location where "Part No. 69024"
should be "stamped" on the air cleaner's top.

 

Buck

 

 

From: Tigers <tigers-bounces at autox.team.net> On Behalf Of Ron Fraser
Sent: Monday, October 11, 2021 2:49 PM
To: tigers at Autox.Team.Net
Subject: [Tigers] air cleaner

 

Brian Nickels sent me these air cleaner pictures and the numbers stamped
into the top cover are new to me.

 

Anyone know about them.

 

Ron Fraser

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From sabre2tgr at gmail.com  Mon Oct 11 17:30:02 2021
From: sabre2tgr at gmail.com (Stu)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2021 19:30:02 -0400
Subject: [Tigers] Pictures
In-Reply-To: <001b01d7bef4$815a37b0$840ea710$@bluefrog.com>
References: <CACQC2nV+mZPHeJVCr+E0HdMks6rYZ+t-Sg28K+pPLRt7_Zkfwg@mail.gmail.com>
 <001b01d7bef4$815a37b0$840ea710$@bluefrog.com>
Message-ID: <CA+DpG67cydTHPWQU=CgpVc1JoAd=bA4_8g6eEe4PNOywsLpO6A@mail.gmail.com>

My air cleaner carries 69024D6.  It is on B382002452, assembled late summer
'66 according to the TBON list.

Stu

On Mon, Oct 11, 2021 at 7:18 PM Ron Fraser <rfraser at bluefrog.com> wrote:

> Lance
>
>                 There seems to be a few people who do not get pictures.
> I have no idea why they are picture challenged.
>
> My air cleaner has no numbers as far as I can tell.
>
> I will take it off tomorrow and take a closer look.
>
>
>
> Ron Fraser
>
>
>
> *From:* Tigers <tigers-bounces at autox.team.net> *On Behalf Of *Lance
> Beauchamp via Tigers
> *Sent:* Monday, October 11, 2021 6:44 PM
> *To:* Tiger Club. Submission <tigers at autox.team.net>
> *Subject:* [Tigers] Pictures
>
>
>
> Is it only certain people that get the pics, I have never seen one.  Of
> any commentary. What am I doing wrong.
>
> I thought I had an original air cleaner housing and I have No numbers on
> it. Not chromed, but powder coated
> _______________________________________________
>
> tigers at autox.team.net
>
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers
> http://autox.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/sabre2tgr at gmail.com
>
>
>
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From garywinblad at comcast.net  Mon Oct 11 17:39:51 2021
From: garywinblad at comcast.net (Gary)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2021 16:39:51 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] Don's photo- GT Tiger   Air Cleaner
In-Reply-To: <AED42EA0-77DE-4461-ADCF-68CEBDDE02B7@sbcglobal.net>
References: <AED42EA0-77DE-4461-ADCF-68CEBDDE02B7@sbcglobal.net>
Message-ID: <8D765AA2-CDCE-43CE-99C3-B4ADFFF2F827@comcast.net>

Whoo hoo, same number as mine!
Gary


Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 11, 2021, at 4:10 PM, Donald Antilla via Tigers <tigers at autox.team.net> wrote:
> 
> ?
> Tiger people: Here is a closeup of the air cleaner that came with the GT tiger I owned. This GT tiger is the first Serial Number off the Jensen line according to Norm Miller.
>  
> From: Tigers <tigers-bounces at autox.team.net> on behalf of jimdamelio via Tigers <tigers at autox.team.net>
> Reply-To: jimdamelio <jimdamelio at verizon.net>
> Date: Monday, October 11, 2021 at 6:32 PM
> To: Warren Goodman <wjtwgoodman at aol.com>, <tigers at autox.team.net>
> Subject: Re: [Tigers] Air Cleaner
>  
> Forgot to attach the picture 
>  
>  
>  
> Sent from my Galaxy
>  
>  
> -------- Original message --------
> From: Warren Goodman via Tigers <tigers at autox.team.net>
> Date: 10/11/21 6:03 PM (GMT-05:00)
> To: tigers at autox.team.net
> Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tigers Digest, Vol 14, Issue 284
>  
> Regarding the part number on the AC housing. 
> The 69024 is the part number on the drawing I have .  
> The H6 was added late on in the process for the later cars including at least the last couple hundred cars as I recall plus the MK2S. 
>  
> The picture with the enlarged zoom feature is a picture that Norm added to the CAT forum but later removed . He told me that the number is supposed to be facing forward and that the zoomed shot is of an LAT chrome top only option unit. 
>  
> How do I know about this, good question I had to decide what number to put on the reproductions and decided the greatest number of cars should get to 69024 .  
>  
> I've seen several late cars and MK2s that have what's said to be the original housing and they have the H6 following the standard part number. 
>  
> We've got about 20 reproductions, left so get them while they're available. 
> 
> Sent from the all new AOL app for Android
>  
> On Mon, Oct 11, 2021 at 2:52 PM, tigers-request at autoxteam.net
> <tigers-request at autox.team.net> wrote:
> Send Tigers mailing list submissions to
>     tigers at autox.team.net
>  
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>     http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>     tigers-request at autox.team.net
>  
> You can reach the person managing the list at
>     tigers-owner at autox.team.net
>  
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Tigers digest..."
>  
>  
> Today's Topics:
>  
>   1. air cleaner (Ron Fraser)
>  
>  
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>  
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2021 17:48:52 -0400
> From: "Ron Fraser" <rfraser at bluefrog.com>
> To: <tigers at Autox.Team.Net>
> Subject: [Tigers] air cleaner
> Message-ID: <000001d7bee9$c89b3030$59d19090$@bluefrog.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>  
> Brian Nickels sent me these air cleaner pictures and the numbers stamped
> into the top cover are new to me.
>  
>  
>  
> Anyone know about them.
>  
>  
>  
> Ron Fraser
>  
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>  
> ------------------------------
>  
> Subject: Digest Footer
>  
> _______________________________________________
> Tigers mailing list
> Tigers at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers
>  
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive
>  
>  
> ------------------------------
>  
> End of Tigers Digest, Vol 14, Issue 284
> ***************************************
> _______________________________________________ tigers at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/fast427 at sbcglobal.net
> _______________________________________________
> 
> tigers at autox.team.net
> 
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive
> 
> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/garywinblad at comcast.net
> 
> 
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From jim at island.net  Mon Oct 11 17:48:50 2021
From: jim at island.net (jim)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2021 16:48:50 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] air cleaner
In-Reply-To: <0a5e01d7bef6$c9286920$5b793b60$@verizon.net>
References: <000001d7bee9$c89b3030$59d19090$@bluefrog.com>
 <0a5e01d7bef6$c9286920$5b793b60$@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <005a01d7befa$8aba0ff0$a02e2fd0$@island.net>

I'm assuming that regardless of the numbers. It was supposed to be stamped
about center on the lip but I got one recently that's waay off to the side !
Monday morning or Friday afternoon ??!

 



 

From: Tigers <tigers-bounces at autox.team.net> On Behalf Of Buck Trippel via
Tigers
Sent: Monday, October 11, 2021 4:22 PM
To: 'Ron Fraser' <rfraser at bluefrog.com>; tigers at Autox.Team.Net
Subject: Re: [Tigers] air cleaner

 

Ron,

 

To answer what I know about your question, the Rootes drawing of the Tiger
air cleaner (which I believe was furnished by Lucas??) in the Rootes Archive
in the UK shows a number of components labeled with their individual part
number in the "6902X" format including the piece with the "69024" stamped on
it. (Those parts included 7969025, 7969026, 7969028, 7969029, 7969030, etc)
These numbers all refer to the various individual pieces that went into
building the air cleaner. 

 

That same Rootes drawing even specifies the location where "Part No. 69024"
should be "stamped" on the air cleaner's top.

 

Buck

 

 

From: Tigers <tigers-bounces at autox.team.net
<mailto:tigers-bounces at autox.team.net> > On Behalf Of Ron Fraser
Sent: Monday, October 11, 2021 2:49 PM
To: tigers at Autox.Team.Net <mailto:tigers at Autox.Team.Net> 
Subject: [Tigers] air cleaner

 

Brian Nickels sent me these air cleaner pictures and the numbers stamped
into the top cover are new to me.

 

Anyone know about them.

 

Ron Fraser

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From fordlandia at sbcglobal.net  Mon Oct 11 18:09:08 2021
From: fordlandia at sbcglobal.net (Bill Waite)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2021 00:09:08 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Tigers] Tigers Digest, Vol 14, Issue 291
In-Reply-To: <mailman.14255.1633996137.5555.tigers@autox.team.net>
References: <mailman.14255.1633996137.5555.tigers@autox.team.net>
Message-ID: <762269960.910068.1633997348165@mail.yahoo.com>

 You might want to double check if your air filter housing has the numbers they are referring to.? I was unaware of this detail until I received this today.? I'll be checking mine, too.
    On Monday, October 11, 2021, 07:50:49 PM EDT, <tigers-request at autox.team.net> wrote:  
 
 Send Tigers mailing list submissions to
??? tigers at autox.team.net

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
??? http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
??? tigers-request at autox.team.net

You can reach the person managing the list at
??? tigers-owner at autox.team.net

When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of Tigers digest..."
Today's Topics:

? 1. Re: air cleaner (jim)

I?m assuming that regardless of the numbers. It was supposed to be stamped about center on the lip but I got one recently that?s waay off to the side !? Monday morning or Friday afternoon ??!

 ?



 ?

From: Tigers <tigers-bounces at autox.team.net> On Behalf Of Buck Trippel via Tigers
Sent: Monday, October 11, 2021 4:22 PM
To: 'Ron Fraser' <rfraser at bluefrog.com>; tigers at Autox.Team.Net
Subject: Re: [Tigers] air cleaner

 ?

Ron,

 ?

To answer what I know about your question, the Rootes drawing of the Tiger air cleaner (which I believe was furnished by Lucas??) in the Rootes Archive in the UK shows a number of components labeled with their individual part number in the ?6902X? format including the piece with the ?69024? stamped on it. (Those parts included 7969025, 7969026, 7969028, 7969029, 7969030, etc) These numbers all refer to the various individual pieces that went into building the air cleaner. 

 ?

That same Rootes drawing even specifies the location where ?Part No. 69024? should be ?stamped? on the air cleaner?s top.

 ?

Buck

 ?

 ?

From: Tigers <tigers-bounces at autox.team.net> On Behalf Of Ron Fraser
Sent: Monday, October 11, 2021 2:49 PM
To: tigers at Autox.Team.Net
Subject: [Tigers] air cleaner

 ?

Brian Nickels sent me these air cleaner pictures and the numbers stamped into the top cover are new to me.

 ?

Anyone know about them.

 ?

Ron Fraser
_______________________________________________
Tigers mailing list
Tigers at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers

Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive
  
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From atwittsend at verizon.net  Mon Oct 11 18:25:07 2021
From: atwittsend at verizon.net (Tom Witt)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2021 17:25:07 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] Pictures
In-Reply-To: <CACQC2nV+mZPHeJVCr+E0HdMks6rYZ+t-Sg28K+pPLRt7_Zkfwg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACQC2nV+mZPHeJVCr+E0HdMks6rYZ+t-Sg28K+pPLRt7_Zkfwg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <721ca08e-da3c-03fa-ada2-e5851c65e2eb@verizon.net>

Sometimes the pictures come as attachments and need to be opened 
separately. Look around the email and see if there is an "Attachment" 
indicator (then click on it). On my program (Thunderbird) I often have 
to scroll WAY beyond the text to find the image. Other times your email 
program or your anti virus might prohibit the picture. This may sound 
archaic (I have fiber optic (FIOS) but you may also have a data limiter 
and to save costly bills it will not allow high data rate stuff through. 
Do you have dial up, DSL or some form of satellite internet?

On 10/11/2021 3:44 PM, Lance Beauchamp via Tigers wrote:
> Is it only certain people that get the pics, I have never seen one.? 
> Of any commentary. What am I doing wrong.
> I thought I had an original air cleaner housing and I have No numbers 
> on it. Not chromed, but powder coated
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> tigers at autox.team.net
>
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/atwittsend at verizon.net
>
>
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From atwittsend at verizon.net  Mon Oct 11 18:28:25 2021
From: atwittsend at verizon.net (Tom Witt)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2021 17:28:25 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] air cleaner
In-Reply-To: <005a01d7befa$8aba0ff0$a02e2fd0$@island.net>
References: <000001d7bee9$c89b3030$59d19090$@bluefrog.com>
 <0a5e01d7bef6$c9286920$5b793b60$@verizon.net>
 <005a01d7befa$8aba0ff0$a02e2fd0$@island.net>
Message-ID: <3f2257c8-8759-71a1-cae4-f2dbe002414b@verizon.net>

Mine was relatively centered horizontally, but sliding off the bottom 
vertically.

On 10/11/2021 4:48 PM, jim via Tigers wrote:
>
> I???m assuming that regardless of the numbers. It was supposed to be 
> stamped about center on the lip but I got one recently that???s waay off 
> to the side !??? Monday morning or Friday afternoon ??!
>
> A picture containing text Description automatically generated
>
> *From:* Tigers <tigers-bounces at autox.team.net> *On Behalf Of *Buck 
> Trippel via Tigers
> *Sent:* Monday, October 11, 2021 4:22 PM
> *To:* 'Ron Fraser' <rfraser at bluefrog.com>; tigers at Autox.Team.Net
> *Subject:* Re: [Tigers] air cleaner
>
> Ron,
>
> To answer what I know about your question, the Rootes drawing of the 
> Tiger air cleaner (which I believe was furnished by Lucas??) in the 
> Rootes Archive in the UK shows a number of components labeled with 
> their individual part number in the ???6902X??? format including the piece 
> with the ???69024??? stamped on it. (Those parts included 7969025, 
> 7969026, 7969028, 7969029, 7969030, etc) These numbers all refer to 
> the various individual pieces that went into building the air cleaner.
>
> That same Rootes drawing even specifies the location where ???Part No. 
> 69024??? should be ???stamped??? on the air cleaner???s top.
>
> Buck
>
> *From:* Tigers <tigers-bounces at autox.team.net 
> <mailto:tigers-bounces at autox.team.net>> *On Behalf Of *Ron Fraser
> *Sent:* Monday, October 11, 2021 2:49 PM
> *To:* tigers at Autox.Team.Net <mailto:tigers at Autox.Team.Net>
> *Subject:* [Tigers] air cleaner
>
> Brian Nickels sent me these air cleaner pictures and the numbers 
> stamped into the top cover are new to me.
>
> Anyone know about them.
>
> Ron Fraser
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> tigers at autox.team.net
>
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/atwittsend at verizon.net
>
>
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From h2otor at aol.com  Mon Oct 11 20:11:25 2021
From: h2otor at aol.com (John Watertor)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2021 02:11:25 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Tigers] Tigers Digest, Vol 14, Issue 284
In-Reply-To: <mailman.14232.1633988955.5555.tigers@autox.team.net>
References: <mailman.14232.1633988955.5555.tigers@autox.team.net>
Message-ID: <553753872.2026209.1634004685237@mail.yahoo.com>

My64 Tiger Number B9470515 lrxfe has the stamped air cleaner number of 7969024.John Watertor


-----Original Message-----
From: tigers-request at autox.team.net
To: tigers at autox.team.net
Sent: Mon, Oct 11, 2021 4:49 pm
Subject: Tigers Digest, Vol 14, Issue 284

Send Tigers mailing list submissions to
??? tigers at autox.team.net

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
??? http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
??? tigers-request at autox.team.net

You can reach the person managing the list at
??? tigers-owner at autox.team.net

When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of Tigers digest..."


Today's Topics:

? 1. air cleaner (Ron Fraser)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2021 17:48:52 -0400
From: "Ron Fraser" <rfraser at bluefrog.com>
To: <tigers at Autox.Team.Net>
Subject: [Tigers] air cleaner
Message-ID: <000001d7bee9$c89b3030$59d19090$@bluefrog.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Brian Nickels sent me these air cleaner pictures and the numbers stamped
into the top cover are new to me.

 

Anyone know about them.

 

Ron Fraser

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------------------------------

Subject: Digest Footer

_______________________________________________
Tigers mailing list
Tigers at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers

Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive


------------------------------

End of Tigers Digest, Vol 14, Issue 284
***************************************
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From dan_doornbos at hotmail.com  Mon Oct 11 21:40:22 2021
From: dan_doornbos at hotmail.com (daniel doornbos)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2021 03:40:22 +0000
Subject: [Tigers] New old stock seals and parts
Message-ID: <SN1PR18MB217595E53A797FB8ACFC0A83FDB69@SN1PR18MB2175.namprd18.prod.outlook.com>

These parts came with my car and I don't need them.  Does anyone have a need or interest in these?  Make me an offer that covers shipping and keeps them out of the trash.  No need to reply all, contact me directly Dan_Doornbos at hotmail.com

dan

Photo link https://photos.app.goo.gl/wfZqQtV7ZjaXyTEN7

  *   Throughout bearing ford toploader Valeo ST4024
  *   24-14010 1 kit brake parts
  *   24-29804 Front  kit (Brakes?)
  *   VSL 109 Oil seal
     *   2 of these, handwritten on the label R9100145
  *   Pioneer Weston oilseals WR 904 22813150R4 (2 of these)

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From aballard at ix.netcom.com  Mon Oct 11 23:10:23 2021
From: aballard at ix.netcom.com (Allan Ballard)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2021 01:10:23 -0400
Subject: [Tigers] air cleaner
In-Reply-To: <3f2257c8-8759-71a1-cae4-f2dbe002414b@verizon.net>
References: <000001d7bee9$c89b3030$59d19090$@bluefrog.com>
 <0a5e01d7bef6$c9286920$5b793b60$@verizon.net>
 <005a01d7befa$8aba0ff0$a02e2fd0$@island.net>
 <3f2257c8-8759-71a1-cae4-f2dbe002414b@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <DB9BB9F6-29BF-4325-A779-3A4E66797E6B@ix.netcom.com>

Chrome air cleaner - 69024 H6


Mk1a Tiger - placed on the Tiger in 1980 or earlier by first owner.

I have another across town and will check it. It?s in original paint, kinda rough, came off a driver Tiger then and shelved for years.  

I?m interested in the different numbers and wonder how many different ones were used and what is the significance if there is any.



Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 11, 2021, at 8:28 PM, Tom Witt via Tigers <tigers at autox.team.net> wrote:
> 
> Mine was relatively centered horizontally, but sliding off the bottom vertically.
> 
> <dlllgkmlkppijghd.png>
> 
>> On 10/11/2021 4:48 PM, jim via Tigers wrote:
>> I???m assuming that regardless of the numbers. It was supposed to be stamped about center on the lip but I got one recently that???s waay off to the side !??? Monday morning or Friday afternoon ??!
>> ???
>> <image001.png>
>> ???
>> From: Tigers <tigers-bounces at autox.team.net> On Behalf Of Buck Trippel via Tigers
>> Sent: Monday, October 11, 2021 4:22 PM
>> To: 'Ron Fraser' <rfraser at bluefrog.com>; tigers at Autox.Team.Net
>> Subject: Re: [Tigers] air cleaner
>> ???
>> Ron,
>> ???
>> To answer what I know about your question, the Rootes drawing of the Tiger air cleaner (which I believe was furnished by Lucas??) in the Rootes Archive in the UK shows a number of components labeled with their individual part number in the ???6902X??? format including the piece with the ???69024??? stamped on it. (Those parts included 7969025, 7969026, 7969028, 7969029, 7969030, etc) These numbers all refer to the various individual pieces that went into building the air cleaner.
>> ???
>> That same Rootes drawing even specifies the location where ???Part No. 69024??? should be ???stamped??? on the air cleaner???s top.
>> ???
>> Buck
>> ???
>> ???
>> From: Tigers <tigers-bounces at autox.team.net> On Behalf Of Ron Fraser
>> Sent: Monday, October 11, 2021 2:49 PM
>> To: tigers at Autox.Team.Net
>> Subject: [Tigers] air cleaner
>> ???
>> Brian Nickels sent me these air cleaner pictures and the numbers stamped into the top cover are new to me.
>> ???
>> Anyone know about them.
>> ???
>> Ron Fraser
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> 
>> tigers at autox.team.net
>> 
>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive
>> 
>> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/atwittsend at verizon.net
>> 
>> 
> _______________________________________________
> 
> tigers at autox.team.net
> 
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive
> 
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> 
> 
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From srwick at hotmail.com  Tue Oct 12 08:25:36 2021
From: srwick at hotmail.com (steve wick)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2021 14:25:36 +0000
Subject: [Tigers] air cleaner
In-Reply-To: <DB9BB9F6-29BF-4325-A779-3A4E66797E6B@ix.netcom.com>
References: <000001d7bee9$c89b3030$59d19090$@bluefrog.com>
 <0a5e01d7bef6$c9286920$5b793b60$@verizon.net>
 <005a01d7befa$8aba0ff0$a02e2fd0$@island.net>
 <3f2257c8-8759-71a1-cae4-f2dbe002414b@verizon.net>
 <DB9BB9F6-29BF-4325-A779-3A4E66797E6B@ix.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <SA1PR06MB8356A709892E95A0D1241DF5D8B69@SA1PR06MB8356.namprd06.prod.outlook.com>

9470780 has 69024 stamped on it. By accident, it was even facing forward. ??

Steve

________________________________
From: Tigers <tigers-bounces at autox.team.net> on behalf of Allan Ballard via Tigers <tigers at autox.team.net>
Sent: Monday, October 11, 2021 10:10 PM
To: Tom Witt <atwittsend at verizon.net>
Cc: Tiger List List <tigers at autox.team.net>
Subject: Re: [Tigers] air cleaner

Chrome air cleaner - 69024 H6
[image1.jpeg]

Mk1a Tiger - placed on the Tiger in 1980 or earlier by first owner.

I have another across town and will check it. It?s in original paint, kinda rough, came off a driver Tiger then and shelved for years.

I?m interested in the different numbers and wonder how many different ones were used and what is the significance if there is any.



Sent from my iPhone

On Oct 11, 2021, at 8:28 PM, Tom Witt via Tigers <tigers at autox.team.net<mailto:tigers at autox.team.net>> wrote:


Mine was relatively centered horizontally, but sliding off the bottom vertically.

<dlllgkmlkppijghd.png>

On 10/11/2021 4:48 PM, jim via Tigers wrote:

I???m assuming that regardless of the numbers. It was supposed to be stamped about center on the lip but I got one recently that???s waay off to the side !??? Monday morning or Friday afternoon ??!

???

<image001.png>

???

From: Tigers <tigers-bounces at autox.team.net><mailto:tigers-bounces at autox.team.net> On Behalf Of Buck Trippel via Tigers
Sent: Monday, October 11, 2021 4:22 PM
To: 'Ron Fraser' <rfraser at bluefrog.com><mailto:rfraser at bluefrog.com>; tigers at Autox.Team.Net<mailto:tigers at Autox.Team.Net>
Subject: Re: [Tigers] air cleaner

???

Ron,

???

To answer what I know about your question, the Rootes drawing of the Tiger air cleaner (which I believe was furnished by Lucas??) in the Rootes Archive in the UK shows a number of components labeled with their individual part number in the ???6902X??? format including the piece with the ???69024??? stamped on it. (Those parts included 7969025, 7969026, 7969028, 7969029, 7969030, etc) These numbers all refer to the various individual pieces that went into building the air cleaner.

???

That same Rootes drawing even specifies the location where ???Part No. 69024??? should be ???stamped??? on the air cleaner???s top.

???

Buck

???

???

From: Tigers <tigers-bounces at autox.team.net<mailto:tigers-bounces at autox.team.net>> On Behalf Of Ron Fraser
Sent: Monday, October 11, 2021 2:49 PM
To: tigers at Autox.Team.Net<mailto:tigers at Autox.Team.Net>
Subject: [Tigers] air cleaner

???

Brian Nickels sent me these air cleaner pictures and the numbers stamped into the top cover are new to me.

???

Anyone know about them.

???

Ron Fraser



_______________________________________________

tigers at autox.team.net<mailto:tigers at autox.team.net>

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Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive

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From Tigers at embarqmail.com  Tue Oct 12 08:51:52 2021
From: Tigers at embarqmail.com (Will Seay)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2021 10:51:52 -0400
Subject: [Tigers] PCV
In-Reply-To: <006701d7bee7$3ccd0170$b6670450$@bluefrog.com>
References: <006701d7bee7$3ccd0170$b6670450$@bluefrog.com>
Message-ID: <CAMRx0hZhOUVBZ5T=wN2GrS_of4srkGRzoqGN7r59G+gFcvEvQA@mail.gmail.com>

Looks like someone has been following the great PCV valve debate.
Check out this eBay listing:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/133901099061?hash=item1f2d20a035:g:gUEAAOSwqEVhZFIO

Will - 382001570
Tigers at embarqmail.com


On Mon, Oct 11, 2021 at 5:30 PM Ron Fraser via Tigers <tigers at autox.team.net>
wrote:

> Well, I found a picture of the C3TZ-6A666-A PCV valve and it is wrong for
> the Tiger engine too.
>
> This is for the 1963 PCV system.
>
>
>
> 1963 system from Bob Mannel?s Book pg. 3-45, that should be the
> C3DE-6A664-A PCV hose @ 3 5/64? long.
>
>
>
> These are not Tiger engine parts.
>
>
>
> I?m going to guess these were the part numbers supplied to Rootes and the
> up to date part numbers were lagging behind in the information exchange.
>
>
>
> Ron Fraser
> _______________________________________________
>
> tigers at autox.team.net
>
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers
> http://autox.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/tigers at embarqmail.com
>
>
>
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From rfraser at bluefrog.com  Tue Oct 12 09:26:53 2021
From: rfraser at bluefrog.com (Ron Fraser)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2021 11:26:53 -0400
Subject: [Tigers] PCV
In-Reply-To: <CAMRx0hZhOUVBZ5T=wN2GrS_of4srkGRzoqGN7r59G+gFcvEvQA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <006701d7bee7$3ccd0170$b6670450$@bluefrog.com>
 <CAMRx0hZhOUVBZ5T=wN2GrS_of4srkGRzoqGN7r59G+gFcvEvQA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <001c01d7bf7d$97073c50$c515b4f0$@bluefrog.com>

That is a big price for a part that may or may not be off a Tiger engine.

 

I did notice that the hose does appear to be bulk hose not a crisp formed right angle hose.

 

Ron Fraser

 

From: Will Seay <Tigers at embarqmail.com> 
Sent: Tuesday, October 12, 2021 10:52 AM
To: Ron Fraser <rfraser at bluefrog.com>
Cc: Tiger Server <tigers at autox.team.net>
Subject: Re: [Tigers] PCV

 

Looks like someone has been following the great PCV valve debate.

Check out this eBay listing: https://www.ebay.com/itm/133901099061?hash=item1f2d20a035:g:gUEAAOSwqEVhZFIO


 

Will - 382001570 
Tigers at embarqmail.com <mailto:Tigers at embarqmail.com> 

 

 

On Mon, Oct 11, 2021 at 5:30 PM Ron Fraser via Tigers <tigers at autox.team.net <mailto:tigers at autox.team.net> > wrote:

Well, I found a picture of the C3TZ-6A666-A PCV valve and it is wrong for the Tiger engine too.

This is for the 1963 PCV system.

 

1963 system from Bob Mannel?s Book pg. 3-45, that should be the C3DE-6A664-A PCV hose @ 3 5/64? long.

 

These are not Tiger engine parts.

 

I?m going to guess these were the part numbers supplied to Rootes and the up to date part numbers were lagging behind in the information exchange.

 

Ron Fraser

_______________________________________________

tigers at autox.team.net <mailto:tigers at autox.team.net> 

Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
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From orr4sale at sbcglobal.net  Tue Oct 12 09:41:03 2021
From: orr4sale at sbcglobal.net (D or G at sbc)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2021 15:41:03 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Tigers] PCV
In-Reply-To: <001c01d7bf7d$97073c50$c515b4f0$@bluefrog.com>
References: <006701d7bee7$3ccd0170$b6670450$@bluefrog.com>
 <CAMRx0hZhOUVBZ5T=wN2GrS_of4srkGRzoqGN7r59G+gFcvEvQA@mail.gmail.com>
 <001c01d7bf7d$97073c50$c515b4f0$@bluefrog.com>
Message-ID: <1580825488.1031307.1634053263692@mail.yahoo.com>

 He does have a lot of Tiger stuff for sale.
David

    On Tuesday, October 12, 2021, 08:31:51 AM PDT, Ron Fraser via Tigers <tigers at autox.team.net> wrote:  
 
 
That is a big price for a part that may or may not be off a Tiger engine.

 ?

I did notice that the hose does appear to be bulk hose not a crisp formed right angle hose.

 ?

Ron Fraser

 ?

From: Will Seay <Tigers at embarqmail.com> 
Sent: Tuesday, October 12, 2021 10:52 AM
To: Ron Fraser <rfraser at bluefrog.com>
Cc: Tiger Server <tigers at autox.team.net>
Subject: Re: [Tigers] PCV

 ?

Looks like someone has been following the great PCV valve debate.

Check out this eBay listing: https://www.ebay.com/itm/133901099061?hash=item1f2d20a035:g:gUEAAOSwqEVhZFIO


 ?

Will - 382001570 
Tigers at embarqmail.com

 ?

 ?

On Mon, Oct 11, 2021 at 5:30 PM Ron Fraser via Tigers <tigers at autox.team.net> wrote:


Well, I found a picture of the C3TZ-6A666-A PCV valve and it is wrong for the Tiger engine too.

This is for the 1963 PCV system.

?

1963 system from Bob Mannel?s Book pg. 3-45, that should be the C3DE-6A664-A PCV hose @ 3 5/64? long.

?

These are not Tiger engine parts.

?

I?m going to guess these were the part numbers supplied to Rootes and the up to date part numbers were lagging behind in the information exchange.

?

Ron Fraser

_______________________________________________

tigers at autox.team.net

Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive

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From wjtwgoodman at aol.com  Tue Oct 12 10:53:37 2021
From: wjtwgoodman at aol.com (Warren Goodman)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2021 16:53:37 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Tigers] Tigers Digest, Vol 14, Issue 295
In-Reply-To: <mailman.14365.1634048759.5555.tigers@autox.team.net>
References: <mailman.14365.1634048759.5555.tigers@autox.team.net>
Message-ID: <1322504402.1054163.1634057617033@mail.yahoo.com>

* caution sales pitch follows.
So now it's clear.? Out of the hundreds of guys buyer's and not buyers I can finally satisfy everyone. Two guys complained that there was no way to tell a reproduction from the original AC housing. These two guys insisted that a watermark or other stamping be put on the repop.?
Well now, here it is aside from it being a purrrfect reproduction they all have only 69024 as the part number stamped in the true somewhere off center fashion.??
It's been fun even when I got slapped down when quoting the price, with a "THAT'S MORE THAN I PAID FOR THE WHOLE G.D. CAR!"?Rule number one for sales the customer is always right even when he's wrong.?Actually it's fun telling the story ;)? seriously under 25 left in the warehouse..

Sent from the all new AOL app for Android 
 
  On Tue, Oct 12, 2021 at 7:39 AM, tigers-request at autox.team.net<tigers-request at autox.team.net> wrote:   Send Tigers mailing list submissions to
??? tigers at autox.team.net

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
??? http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
??? tigers-request at autox.team.net

You can reach the person managing the list at
??? tigers-owner at autox.team.net

When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of Tigers digest..."


Today's Topics:

? 1. Re: air cleaner (steve wick)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2021 14:25:36 +0000
From: steve wick <srwick at hotmail.com>
To: Tom Witt <atwittsend at verizon.net>, Allan Ballard
??? <aballard at ix.netcom.com>
Cc: Tiger List List <tigers at autox.team.net>
Subject: Re: [Tigers] air cleaner
Message-ID:
??? <SA1PR06MB8356A709892E95A0D1241DF5D8B69 at SA1PR06MB8356.namprd06.prod.outlook.com>
??? 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

9470780 has 69024 stamped on it. By accident, it was even facing forward. ??

Steve

________________________________
From: Tigers <tigers-bounces at autox.team.net> on behalf of Allan Ballard via Tigers <tigers at autox.team.net>
Sent: Monday, October 11, 2021 10:10 PM
To: Tom Witt <atwittsend at verizon.net>
Cc: Tiger List List <tigers at autox.team.net>
Subject: Re: [Tigers] air cleaner

Chrome air cleaner - 69024 H6
[image1.jpeg]

Mk1a Tiger - placed on the Tiger in 1980 or earlier by first owner.

I have another across town and will check it. It?s in original paint, kinda rough, came off a driver Tiger then and shelved for years.

I?m interested in the different numbers and wonder how many different ones were used and what is the significance if there is any.



Sent from my iPhone

On Oct 11, 2021, at 8:28 PM, Tom Witt via Tigers <tigers at autox.team.net<mailto:tigers at autox.team.net>> wrote:


Mine was relatively centered horizontally, but sliding off the bottom vertically.

<dlllgkmlkppijghd.png>

On 10/11/2021 4:48 PM, jim via Tigers wrote:

I???m assuming that regardless of the numbers. It was supposed to be stamped about center on the lip but I got one recently that???s waay off to the side !??? Monday morning or Friday afternoon ??!

???

<image001.png>

???

From: Tigers <tigers-bounces at autox.team.net><mailto:tigers-bounces at autox.team.net> On Behalf Of Buck Trippel via Tigers
Sent: Monday, October 11, 2021 4:22 PM
To: 'Ron Fraser' <rfraser at bluefrog.com><mailto:rfraser at bluefrog.com>; tigers at Autox.Team.Net<mailto:tigers at Autox.Team.Net>
Subject: Re: [Tigers] air cleaner

???

Ron,

???

To answer what I know about your question, the Rootes drawing of the Tiger air cleaner (which I believe was furnished by Lucas??) in the Rootes Archive in the UK shows a number of components labeled with their individual part number in the ???6902X??? format including the piece with the ???69024??? stamped on it. (Those parts included 7969025, 7969026, 7969028, 7969029, 7969030, etc) These numbers all refer to the various individual pieces that went into building the air cleaner.

???

That same Rootes drawing even specifies the location where ???Part No. 69024??? should be ???stamped??? on the air cleaner???s top.

???

Buck

???

???

From: Tigers <tigers-bounces at autox.team.net<mailto:tigers-bounces at autox.team.net>> On Behalf Of Ron Fraser
Sent: Monday, October 11, 2021 2:49 PM
To: tigers at Autox.Team.Net<mailto:tigers at Autox.Team.Net>
Subject: [Tigers] air cleaner

???

Brian Nickels sent me these air cleaner pictures and the numbers stamped into the top cover are new to me.

???

Anyone know about them.

???

Ron Fraser



_______________________________________________

tigers at autox.team.net<mailto:tigers at autox.team.net>

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Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive

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------------------------------

Subject: Digest Footer

_______________________________________________
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Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
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------------------------------

End of Tigers Digest, Vol 14, Issue 295
***************************************
  
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From dave.barakat at icloud.com  Tue Oct 12 11:00:37 2021
From: dave.barakat at icloud.com (Dave Barakat)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2021 10:00:37 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] Pictures
In-Reply-To: <001b01d7bef4$815a37b0$840ea710$@bluefrog.com>
References: <CACQC2nV+mZPHeJVCr+E0HdMks6rYZ+t-Sg28K+pPLRt7_Zkfwg@mail.gmail.com>
 <001b01d7bef4$815a37b0$840ea710$@bluefrog.com>
Message-ID: <3A136A4A-24BC-4FCE-9A80-EA7FA27889BC@icloud.com>

for whatever it is worth my Tiger B382000443 has "69024? clearly stamped on the front center

> On Oct 11, 2021, at 4:05 PM, Ron Fraser <rfraser at bluefrog.com> wrote:
> 
> Lance
>                 There seems to be a few people who do not get pictures.   I have no idea why they are picture challenged.
> My air cleaner has no numbers as far as I can tell.
> I will take it off tomorrow and take a closer look.
>  
> Ron Fraser
>  
> From: Tigers <tigers-bounces at autox.team.net> On Behalf Of Lance Beauchamp via Tigers
> Sent: Monday, October 11, 2021 6:44 PM
> To: Tiger Club. Submission <tigers at autox.team.net>
> Subject: [Tigers] Pictures
>  
> Is it only certain people that get the pics, I have never seen one.  Of any commentary. What am I doing wrong. 
> I thought I had an original air cleaner housing and I have No numbers on it. Not chromed, but powder coated
> _______________________________________________
> 
> tigers at autox.team.net
> 
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
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From Tigers at embarqmail.com  Tue Oct 12 13:02:55 2021
From: Tigers at embarqmail.com (Will Seay)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2021 15:02:55 -0400
Subject: [Tigers] PCV
In-Reply-To: <001c01d7bf7d$97073c50$c515b4f0$@bluefrog.com>
References: <006701d7bee7$3ccd0170$b6670450$@bluefrog.com>
 <CAMRx0hZhOUVBZ5T=wN2GrS_of4srkGRzoqGN7r59G+gFcvEvQA@mail.gmail.com>
 <001c01d7bf7d$97073c50$c515b4f0$@bluefrog.com>
Message-ID: <CAMRx0haV9EJY7f7xNk7g=Tq9xjRCkHYcSG1s1YBe97txo7soHQ@mail.gmail.com>

Anybody think that I can get $249.99 for this on eBay?  (attached)
I found this among miscellaneous Tiger parts.  Don't think it came off of
my Tiger, but it might have.

Will - 382001570
Tigers at embarqmail.com


On Tue, Oct 12, 2021 at 11:26 AM Ron Fraser <rfraser at bluefrog.com> wrote:

> That is a big price for a part that may or may not be off a Tiger engine.
>
>
>
> I did notice that the hose does appear to be bulk hose not a crisp formed
> right angle hose.
>
>
>
> Ron Fraser
>
>
>
> *From:* Will Seay <Tigers at embarqmail.com>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 12, 2021 10:52 AM
> *To:* Ron Fraser <rfraser at bluefrog.com>
> *Cc:* Tiger Server <tigers at autox.team.net>
> *Subject:* Re: [Tigers] PCV
>
>
>
> Looks like someone has been following the great PCV valve debate.
>
> Check out this eBay listing:
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/133901099061?hash=item1f2d20a035:g:gUEAAOSwqEVhZFIO
>
>
>
> Will - 382001570
> Tigers at embarqmail.com
>
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Oct 11, 2021 at 5:30 PM Ron Fraser via Tigers <
> tigers at autox.team.net> wrote:
>
> Well, I found a picture of the C3TZ-6A666-A PCV valve and it is wrong for
> the Tiger engine too.
>
> This is for the 1963 PCV system.
>
>
>
> 1963 system from Bob Mannel?s Book pg. 3-45, that should be the
> C3DE-6A664-A PCV hose @ 3 5/64? long.
>
>
>
> These are not Tiger engine parts.
>
>
>
> I?m going to guess these were the part numbers supplied to Rootes and the
> up to date part numbers were lagging behind in the information exchange.
>
>
>
> Ron Fraser
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> tigers at autox.team.net
>
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers
> http://autox.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/tigers at embarqmail.com
>
>
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From aballard at ix.netcom.com  Tue Oct 12 14:11:48 2021
From: aballard at ix.netcom.com (Allan Ballard)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2021 16:11:48 -0400
Subject: [Tigers] air cleaner
In-Reply-To: <SA1PR06MB8356A709892E95A0D1241DF5D8B69@SA1PR06MB8356.namprd06.prod.outlook.com>
References: <000001d7bee9$c89b3030$59d19090$@bluefrog.com>
 <0a5e01d7bef6$c9286920$5b793b60$@verizon.net>
 <005a01d7befa$8aba0ff0$a02e2fd0$@island.net>
 <3f2257c8-8759-71a1-cae4-f2dbe002414b@verizon.net>
 <DB9BB9F6-29BF-4325-A779-3A4E66797E6B@ix.netcom.com>
 <SA1PR06MB8356A709892E95A0D1241DF5D8B69@SA1PR06MB8356.namprd06.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <5F648AC8-0AC1-423A-AE13-AE142ABC1A8D@ix.netcom.com>

Non-chrome air cleaner most likely from a Mk1 - 69024 - positioned near the curve 



Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 12, 2021, at 10:25 AM, steve wick <srwick at hotmail.com> wrote:
> 
> 9470780 has 69024 stamped on it. By accident, it was even facing forward. ??
> 
> Steve
> 
> From: Tigers <tigers-bounces at autox.team.net> on behalf of Allan Ballard via Tigers <tigers at autox.team.net>
> Sent: Monday, October 11, 2021 10:10 PM
> To: Tom Witt <atwittsend at verizon.net>
> Cc: Tiger List List <tigers at autox.team.net>
> Subject: Re: [Tigers] air cleaner
>  
> Chrome air cleaner - 69024 H6
> <image1.jpeg>
> 
> Mk1a Tiger - placed on the Tiger in 1980 or earlier by first owner.
> 
> I have another across town and will check it. It?s in original paint, kinda rough, came off a driver Tiger then and shelved for years.  
> 
> I?m interested in the different numbers and wonder how many different ones were used and what is the significance if there is any.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Oct 11, 2021, at 8:28 PM, Tom Witt via Tigers <tigers at autox.team.net> wrote:
> 
>> Mine was relatively centered horizontally, but sliding off the bottom vertically.
>> 
>> <dlllgkmlkppijghd.png>
>> 
>>> On 10/11/2021 4:48 PM, jim via Tigers wrote:
>>> I???m assuming that regardless of the numbers. It was supposed to be stamped about center on the lip but I got one recently that???s waay off to the side !??? Monday morning or Friday afternoon ??!
>>> ???
>>> <image001.png>
>>> ???
>>> From: Tigers <tigers-bounces at autox.team.net> On Behalf Of Buck Trippel via Tigers
>>> Sent: Monday, October 11, 2021 4:22 PM
>>> To: 'Ron Fraser' <rfraser at bluefrog.com>; tigers at Autox.Team.Net
>>> Subject: Re: [Tigers] air cleaner
>>> ???
>>> Ron,
>>> ???
>>> To answer what I know about your question, the Rootes drawing of the Tiger air cleaner (which I believe was furnished by Lucas??) in the Rootes Archive in the UK shows a number of components labeled with their individual part number in the ???6902X??? format including the piece with the ???69024??? stamped on it. (Those parts included 7969025, 7969026, 7969028, 7969029, 7969030, etc) These numbers all refer to the various individual pieces that went into building the air cleaner.
>>> ???
>>> That same Rootes drawing even specifies the location where ???Part No. 69024??? should be ???stamped??? on the air cleaner???s top.
>>> ???
>>> Buck
>>> ???
>>> ???
>>> From: Tigers <tigers-bounces at autox.team.net> On Behalf Of Ron Fraser
>>> Sent: Monday, October 11, 2021 2:49 PM
>>> To: tigers at Autox.Team.Net
>>> Subject: [Tigers] air cleaner
>>> ???
>>> Brian Nickels sent me these air cleaner pictures and the numbers stamped into the top cover are new to me.
>>> ???
>>> Anyone know about them.
>>> ???
>>> Ron Fraser
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> 
>>> tigers at autox.team.net
>>> 
>>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive
>>> 
>>> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/atwittsend at verizon.net
>>> 
>>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> 
>> tigers at autox.team.net
>> 
>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive
>> 
>> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/aballard at ix.netcom.com
>> 
>> 
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From blance598 at gmail.com  Thu Oct 14 08:06:34 2021
From: blance598 at gmail.com (Lance Beauchamp)
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2021 10:06:34 -0400
Subject: [Tigers] Found it, old news
Message-ID: <CACQC2nVuzXWknw+10obF9P1K3EqwLkRvo5=gio+mtZdCPdsTYA@mail.gmail.com>

My air filter housing is 69024.
Had the unit powder coated awhile back so it was harder to locate..Beau
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From stangorski at verizon.net  Wed Oct 20 08:50:25 2021
From: stangorski at verizon.net (Stanley Gorski)
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2021 14:50:25 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Tigers] Exhaust recommendations
References: <761459604.522138.1634741425162.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <761459604.522138.1634741425162@mail.yahoo.com>

I have an original 260 4bbl, f4b, marine cam and Jet coated Sanderson headers. ?Looking to do an exhaust system am in Sarasota Fl.. The work I have seen from our local pipe benders is down and dirty. ?Looked and read on Ricks system, sounds interesting, but needs tweaking. ?What options and opinions are out there. ?Thanks Stan
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From clydemclaughlin at verizon.net  Wed Oct 20 14:13:07 2021
From: clydemclaughlin at verizon.net (clydemclaughlin at verizon.net)
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2021 20:13:07 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Tigers] exhaust headers
References: <484357729.2688800.1634760787671.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <484357729.2688800.1634760787671@mail.yahoo.com>

does anyone recognize this header set, ?it appears that the two bottom tubes are same distance from the ground and I noticed that the collector lined up with the opening in the cross member unlike the CAT headers. ?Also the CAT headers seem to have the #3 and #7 cyl tubes hang lower than they need to thus hit the ground regularly. ?Suggestions, comments, recommendations. ?I took this pix on a car at the NH TAC session this past week, the owner didn't know because they were on the car when he got it.
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From aballard at ix.netcom.com  Wed Oct 20 21:20:12 2021
From: aballard at ix.netcom.com (Allan Ballard)
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2021 23:20:12 -0400
Subject: [Tigers] exhaust headers
In-Reply-To: <484357729.2688800.1634760787671@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <484357729.2688800.1634760787671.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
 <484357729.2688800.1634760787671@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <54BDA91C-99D2-437B-A363-F07B75EA0975@ix.netcom.com>

Are you going to install a balance (crossover) pipe?

-Allan Ballard
Mk1a Tiger
Series I (v6) Alpine

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 20, 2021, at 4:13 PM, clyde mclaughlin via Tigers <tigers at autox.team.net> wrote:
> 
> does anyone recognize this header set,  it appears that the two bottom tubes are same distance from the ground and I noticed that the collector lined up with the opening in the cross member unlike the CAT headers.  Also the CAT headers seem to have the #3 and #7 cyl tubes hang lower than they need to thus hit the ground regularly.  Suggestions, comments, recommendations.  I took this pix on a car at the NH TAC session this past week, the owner didn't know because they were on the car when he got it.
> <20211016_084945.jpg>
> _______________________________________________
> 
> tigers at autox.team.net
> 
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive
> 
> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/aballard at ix.netcom.com
> 
> 
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